Dr. Koren joins Kevin Geddings to discuss the controversy surrounding Christopher Columbus and how perceptions have changed over time. The doctor explains that some view Columbus as a hero while others recognize him as a flawed figure whose actions had severe consequences for indigenous populations in the Americas.
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Episode Transcript
Welcome to the MedEvidence! Monday minute radio
showed by Kevin Geddings ofWSOS St. Augustine Radio and
powered by ENCORE Research Group.
Each Monday morning Dr.
Michael Koren calls in to bring you the latestMedical updates with insighful discussion.
MedEvidence! is where wehelp you naviate the real truth behind
medicalresearch. With both a clinical and research perspective.
So step back, relax, and getready to learn about the truth
(00:24):
behind thedata in medicine and healthcare. This is MedEvidence!
Kevin Geddings (00:30):
Dr.
Koren is here with us, and ofcourse, he joins us on Monday
morning right around this time.
And he, of course, sets up theshow at ENCORE Research Group.
He's a medical doctor,cardiologist, research
scientist, and happy ColumbusDay, Dr.
Koren.
Dr. Michael Koren (00:47):
Well, Kevin, is it really Columbus Day?
I'm not sure what day it is.
Kevin Geddings (00:51):
It's also Happy Indigenous People's Day.
And also, you know how we havethat list in the Almanac.
We need to get the newspaper ofwhat else it is.
Today is also National HerpesAwareness Day as well.
Dr. Michael Koren (01:03):
Oh my goodness.
And it's St.
John's County Teachers PlanningDay.
Kevin Geddings (01:08):
Yes, it's that too.
And also ironically, yourUnited States Congress also
passed a proclamation making ituh today is English Language
Awareness Day, which is prettyfunny on Columbus Day since he
probably didn't speak anyEnglish, but okay.
Dr. Michael Koren (01:23):
Yeah, so it's it's interesting.
Obviously going back to 1975,this was definitely Columbus
Day.
Kevin Geddings (01:29):
Yes.
Absolutely, no doubt about it,with big parades in New York and
the Italian American community,which they'll probably have
today, but even bigger backthen.
Dr. Michael Koren (01:37):
Yeah, which which is kind of ironic since
Columbus was from Genoa, whichwas not part of Italy at the
time.
Kevin Geddings (01:44):
But they claim him anyway.
Yeah, and then it didn't he hesailed here for the Portuguese,
right?
Dr. Michael Koren (01:50):
Uh the Spanish, right?
Kevin Geddings (01:51):
Oh, the Spanish.
He was Portuguese.
That's right.
Okay, gotcha.
Dr. Michael Koren (01:54):
Well, he was he was from Genoa.
So remember they had all theselittle city states back then.
Yeah.
So he was from Genoa, which hada tradition of of producing
seafarers.
Right.
And uh but he he's such acontroversial figure now.
You know, there have beenstatues of him that have been
defaced or thrown into theocean.
Kevin Geddings (02:14):
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Koren (02:14):
And um Yeah, there's two sides to the story.
Um I studied a little bit andum the first of all, the guy was
incredibly bold.
He he asked for funding fromQueen Isabella, as you recall.
He was given three ships, bythe way, that were not state of
the art at the time.
Um the Chinese at the sameperiod of history were building
(02:35):
much bigger and grandiose shipsand making uh very long voyages
with them.
And but they youand he had the Nina the Pinta
and Santa Maria.
He he took that intrepid trekacross the ocean to try to get
to you know the quote far east,the trade routes that Marco Polo
had described.
And Columbus was an expert indead reckoning navigation.
(02:57):
So imagine crossing an oceanwith these primitive navigation
tools, and really you know,Columbus and his crew just had
their wits about them and theability to kind of know what
direction they were going in atwhat speed they're going in, and
then map a course based onthat.
So they had incredible skillsas seafarers and you have to be
had just because of that, theygot across the ocean and back uh
(03:19):
four times is like quiteremarkable.
But then there's all thiscontroversy about how they
treated the natives and theindigenous people, which is also
you know somewhatcontroversial, or when you guys
should get to the historicaldetails, you can make uh there's
two sides to the article, let'sjust say let's just say it like
that.
So Columbus was a cruel, cruelguy, Kevin.
(03:41):
In fact, what people probablydon't know is that when he
returned from his third voyagefrom the Caribbean, um, he was
actually imprisoned and jailedby Spanish authorities for over
a month.
And this is because of thecruelty that he showed to his
own crew members.
And certainly uh native uh uhpeoples were were exploited and
(04:03):
treated cruelly when when thewhen the Spaniards in Columbus
came there.
On the other hand, the nativepopulations were in marked
decline during the centuriesbefore Europeans ever showed up
in the Americas.
And this is something that isnot well communicated.
It it's something that we werekind of learning about as we
(04:24):
study the the archaeology ofthese places to a greater
degree.
But probably the peak of thesecivilizations that were American
civil American civilizations,such as the Incas and and the
Peruvian civilizations, um andthe Mayans, was probably between
the years of 800 and thousand.
And then because of climatechange and wars, they were
(04:45):
fighting each other and becausethey weren't keeping up with
technology, for example, theynever really used the wheel,
they found themselves indecline.
So the populations at the timethat Columbus came over was were
way lower than they were fivehundred years older.
So, you know, how much theEuropeans contributed to that uh
after the fact is is somethingthat we talk about.
But if the fact is that thesepopulations were in decline and
(05:09):
the uh Native Americans did nothave the technology to do the
opposite, which is cross theocean and come to Europe.
So um I find these thingsinteresting and not to take
sides, but there's two sides toevery story.
So on the other hand, Columbusis a hero based on his skills,
but was also a son of a bitch,quite frankly.
Yeah.
Well, and it's and it pointsto something you're very
(05:34):
involved with, Med Evidence!, agreat website that features the
truth behind all this healthcaredata that you know we we come
across all the time on socialmedia and in the regular
traditional media as well,right, Dr.
Koren?
Yeah, so again, we try not to take sides
because the truth is uh oftenbased on your perspective and
(05:55):
can be interpreted in differentways depending on circumstances.
So what we like to do ispresent you know both sides of
an argument or multiple sides ofan argument, sometimes it's
more than two sides, and to getthe most knowledgeable people to
have a discussion, lay it out,tell you what we know for sure
about something, tell you whatwe don't know, and then of
course how we learn about thestuff that we don't know, which
(06:15):
is often through clinicaltrials, which all of us can
participate in, and is uh is aneat way to help move science
forward and to derive benefitsfor yourself and your family.
So that's what MedEvidence! isall about, really the Truth
Behind the Data.
Most of the issues that we dealwith, whether it's um what
holiday is today, or should Itake this vaccine, or should I
(06:37):
get my lipoprotein(a) checked,or what things do I need to do
to reduce my cardiovascularrisk.
There's multiple elements tothese decisions.
And the best thing you do isbecome knowledgeable, uh, talk
to people who know this area,and then make good decisions for
yourself and your family basedon the information presented.
Kevin Geddings (06:56):
What I love about the MedEvidence! platform,
by the way, you can access iteasily at medevidence.com, is uh
the information is presented ina way that laymen like myself
can easily understand.
It's also presented in avariety of formats so that you
can absorb it, you know,regardless of whether you're
driving or whether you're ableto sit in front of a tablet or
in front of your laptop orwhatever and absorb it all.
And it's just, you know,information you can trust, which
(07:18):
is something you cannot sayabout what you're gathering up
from TikTok or Instagram orFacebook or etc.
Uh right, Dr.
Koren?
Dr. Michael Koren (07:26):
Absolutely.
Yeah, all those platforms justare trying to either sell you
something or just promote oneview of the world.
They're not trying to give youa sense for a multi-dimensional
view so that you can understandthe data and then make your
decision.
So, yeah, they're fundamentallydifferent.
So thanks for pointing thatout.
Kevin Geddings (07:44):
Right.
Well, I just had a listener uhcall in on another line to also
remind us that it is also, Dr.
Koren, Canadian ThanksgivingDay.
Dr. Michael Koren (07:53):
Ah, okay.
I should have known that mycollege roommate was Canadian,
is Canadian.
And um I always thought it waslike the first week of November,
so I guess they move it around.
Kevin Geddings (08:05):
I guess they move it around.
But yeah, I I got that uhthat's a notice I saw on the
list of all the days that it istoday.
In addition to the listening.
Yeah, there you go.
Well, Dr.
Koren, thank you very much foryour time, and we will speak
with you again next week.
Dr. Michael Koren (08:19):
Sounds great, Kevin.
Have a great day.
Announcer (08:21):
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