September 29, 2025 • 9 mins
Dr. Michael Koren joins Kevin Geddings in talking about the start of flu season and the benefits of getting a flu shot through the clinical trials process. The doctor explains that modern flu shot trials don't use a placebo, they compare two different types of flu shot but everyone is protected. The two also discuss some of the rumors and mysteries surrounding flu shots, including why patients 65 and up sometimes get offered a different vaccine than those younger.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Announcer (00:00):
Welcome to the MedEvidence Monday Minute Radio
Show, hosted by Kevin Kettingsof WSOS in Onclock Radio and
powered by Encore ResearchGroup.
Each Monday morning, Dr.
Michael Corin calls out tobring you the latest medical
updates of insightfuldiscussions.
MetaEvidence is where we helpyou navigate the real truth
behind medical research withboth a clinical and research
(00:20):
perspective.
So sit back, relax, and getready to learn about the truth
behind the data of medicine andhealthcare.
This is MedEvidence.
KevinGeddings (00:30):
Dr.
Michael Koren joining me liveon the studio line as he does
most Monday mornings.
We appreciate him.
He is a medical doctor,cardiologist, research
scientist, with some greatopportunities for folks here in
St.
John's County and St.
Augustine who normally get aflu shot anyway.
They could really do somethingpretty cool and be a part of
some leading edge medicalresearch, right, Dr.
Koren?
Dr.MichaelKoren (00:50):
That's right, Kevin.
Good morning.
KevinGeddings (00:51):
Good morning.
Well, doing well.
It's a Jaguar Victory Monday,so we're all happy over here.
Dr.MichaelKoren (00:56):
Yeah.
Always makes somebody feel alittle bit better about the week
to come.
KevinGeddings (01:00):
Yeah, but I know this is the season, right, to
get your flu shot.
A lot of folks typically getthem anyway.
Maybe they don't get them atthe exact same time every year,
but I would imagine a lot of ourlisteners have not got received
a flu shot yet, and theyshould, and they could do this
in a really interesting way byworking with encore docs, right?
Dr.MichaelKoren (01:18):
Absolutely.
As a matter of fact, in St.
Augustine, as we speak, we'restarting to recruit patients for
an interesting program that'scomparing two types of flu
shots.
So this is one of thoseexamples where everybody gets an
active therapy, but we'relooking to see if a standard
three strain flu shot and astandard four strain flu shot
(01:40):
result in any differences.
So this gets into some of thetechnicalities of how flu shots
work, but every year weanticipate what strains may hit
a community.
And you can put a certainnumber of strains in any
particular vaccine.
Sometimes it's three, sometimesit's four, and want to see in
this case is three better thanfour.
So in this case, everybody getsuh a flu shot, so that's good.
(02:04):
And in fact, you get paid forthis.
So people can expect an extralittle bit more than $500 for
participating in this programwhere we just see how people do
with the three versus the fourstrain shot.
KevinGeddings (02:14):
Oh, that's great.
And of course, all that'sinvolved, I would imagine, is
that the uh patient is then orthe participant is tracked to
see, you know, what the impactof the different shots might be
over time.
Dr.MichaelKoren (02:25):
Yeah, exactly.
Just keep it keep in touch.
There'll be a diary.
You let us know if you feelsick, and we'll check you out.
That's actually one of thereally nice things about the
programs is that if you do getsick over the next six months,
we'll see if you have the flu.
KevinGeddings (02:38):
Right.
Dr.MichaelKoren (02:39):
And so you'll you'll get uh you'll you'll be
you'll be in a situation whereyou get a lot more information
than you would if you're not ina program.
Uh we are taking reservationsfor the study now as we speak.
Uh this particular studythough, by the way, is for older
people, 65 and up.
So just want to make sureeverybody understands that.
KevinGeddings (02:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
If you're aged 65 and older andyou have not yet received your
flu shot, this would be a greatway to participate in one, like
Dr.
Koren indicated.
You're going to get a flu shot.
It's not that you're going toget, you know, uh, you know,
something that's not going totake a look at the case.
Dr.MichaelKoren (03:09):
No placebo.
KevinGeddings (03:10):
Yeah, no placebo.
Right.
Uh and all you have to do isonce again call them here
locally in St.
Augustine.
They're convenient right therein the Whetstone building next
door to Flagler Hospital.
904-730-0166 and ask about thestudy that Dr.
Koren has mentioned about theflu shot this morning.
Once again, you have to be aged65 and older.
904-730-0166.
(03:33):
And just, I guess, me being alayman here, so I I guess the
theory is that if it's fourstrains instead of three
strains, it's better coverage.
I mean, that's what we're goingto try to figure out with this
study.
Dr.MichaelKoren (03:44):
Yeah, basically, that's right.
KevinGeddings (03:45):
Okay.
Dr.MichaelKoren (03:46):
Uh so there's a little bit of a trade-off
between having more strains andhaving a local skin reaction,
for example.
So uh do more people get alocal skin reaction with four
versus three versus moreprotection?
So these are the kind ofresearch questions that we ask,
and then we hopefully solve withresearch programs.
KevinGeddings (04:04):
I've always wondered about this too, and
just getting mine earlier thisyear or a couple you know, a
couple weeks ago.
Um you have the option, they'llsay, like even at Publix or
something, that you can get aflu shot, the regular flu shot,
and then if you're over 65, youcan get a different flu shot.
What's that?
What are we experiencing whenthat happens?
Dr.MichaelKoren (04:20):
Well, it it it's some of the same things.
Um, you know, there there'sactually a reasonable amount of
competition amongst differentmanufacturers in terms of of flu
vaccines, but most patientsdon't order flu vaccines based
on any brand name or things ofthat nature.
So uh a pharmacist would behelpful too, uh based on both
FDA approval status and probablybusiness deals between whatever
(04:45):
the organization is that'sgiving the shot and the
manufacturer, there'll be um thetendency to use one product
versus another.
It's very rare that patientsactually ask for a flu vaccine
by the trade name.
But you can't do that actually.
KevinGeddings (05:00):
So And should we?
I mean, is there a difference?
Is there a uh a Chevy flu shotversus a Cadillac flu shot?
Dr.MichaelKoren (05:07):
Uh well uh what I would say is there's probably
a uh Chevy flu shot versus aTesla flu shot, uh meaning that
they maybe have slightlydifferent mechanisms, but
they'll all get you to yourdestination quite well.
There you go.
So yeah, it gets gets into someof the subtle differences that
(05:28):
we'd have to do an entirepodcast to fully explain.
KevinGeddings (05:31):
That's something we should do that actually at
some point.
So Dr.
Koren does such a great job ofanswering my dumb questions
without actually saying thatthey're dumb questions, which I
always think.
Dr.MichaelKoren (05:39):
It's not a dumb question, but um I do actually
tell my patients uh um the onesthat are more vulnerable that
they may want the quadravalanceshot, which is the four strains.
Right.
So that's one little take-homemessage.
But the truth is that we're notsure if that makes that much of
a difference for most patients.
So we don't like to oversellthings, especially if there's
(06:01):
going to be a price differenceon a retail basis.
KevinGeddings (06:03):
There you go.
Well, once again, if you're justhopping in your vehicle or just
tuning us in, Dr.
Michael Koren is here with me,of course, medical doctor,
cardiologist, and researchscientists, and with
ENCORE Research Group, andENCORE Research Group is doing a
study right now with flu shots.
So if you're aged 65 and older,you can participate in the
study.
You'll obviously get a flu shotat no charge.
You'll also get additionalcompensation, I think up to like
$500.
(06:24):
Um, and you'll be testing thedifference between one flu shot
that will take care of threestrains of flu, the other four
strains, but one way or theother you'll be covered, and
then you'll also get some of thebest healthcare, I would argue,
that you've ever experienced bybeing a participant in this
study.
Go to Encorodocs.com.
That's spelled E-N-C-O-R-Edocs.com, Encoredocs.com.
(06:45):
And before we let you go, ofcourse, there's so much medical
news out there, right, with RFKJr.
and all this other stuff goingon in Washington.
MedEvidence is a great platformto kind of sift through all
this stuff, right, Doctor?
Dr.MichaelKoren (06:58):
It is.
It it really is.
I'm so pleased with that I'mgetting tremendously positive
feedback about MedEvidence.
And you know, a lot of thingsin medicine are complicated,
Kevin, and it's it's not thingsthat are necessarily pat saying
that this is great for everybodyor this is horrible for
everybody.
Most things in medicine dependon who is involved in the
(07:20):
decision making and who is goingto be going to be getting the
treatment or or the diagnosticprocedure.
So you have to individualizethings.
So how do you get informationout to the public when the best
information is individualized?
And the way we do that is byjust discussing the issue in
general so then people can drawconclusions that are relevant
(07:40):
for each particular personlistening or viewing.
So I hope that makes sense.
Um but you probably go tofamily events, which I did
recently, and I'll ask somebody,um, oh, what supplements do you
take?
And they'll give me a list offour supplements.
And I ask them, Well, why doyou take that?
And they say, Oh, my friendsaid it was good.
Well, medicine doesn't worklike that.
(08:02):
Things are not good or badintrinsically necessarily.
Things are good or bad forindividuals based on
circumstances.
So we try to help peopleunderstand that for in Med
Evidence.
So a lot of things areappropriate under certain
circumstances, but in many casesthey're not appropriate.
So you need to just become moreeducated, listen to experts
(08:23):
talk about it, and then you'lldraw the right conclusions for
you and your family.
KevinGeddings (08:27):
Yeah.
Well, and what I like about theMedEvidence platform, once
again, go to Medevidence.com,it's very intuitive, very easy
to navigate, and of course,information available on a
variety of different platforms.
So it's just easy to use.
So I encourage you, you know,you always have time, of course,
to surf the web a little bit.
Go to medevidence.com.
Medevidence.com, the truthbehind the data.
(08:48):
I promise you, it's going to bea good experience, and you're
going to use it as a resourcemoving forward and share it too
with other friends, familymembers, you know, who you may
be having conversations withabout various health topics.
Medevidence.com.
Dr.
Michael Koren, thank you forall your time this morning.
We appreciate you, and we'lltalk soon, okay?
My pleasure.
Have a great week.
Announcer (09:06):
Thanks for joining the Med Evidence Podcast.
To learn more, head over toMedevidence.com or subscribe to
our podcast on your favoritepodcast platform.
Welcome to the MedEvidence Monday Minute Radio
Show, hosted by Kevin Kettingsof WSOS in Onclock Radio and
powered by Encore ResearchGroup.
Each Monday morning, Dr.
Michael Corin calls out tobring you the latest medical
updates of insightfuldiscussions.
MetaEvidence is where we helpyou navigate the real truth
behind medical research withboth a clinical and research
(00:20):
perspective.
So sit back, relax, and getready to learn about the truth
behind the data of medicine andhealthcare.
This is MedEvidence.
KevinGeddings (00:30):
Dr.
Michael Koren joining me liveon the studio line as he does
most Monday mornings.
We appreciate him.
He is a medical doctor,cardiologist, research
scientist, with some greatopportunities for folks here in
St.
John's County and St.
Augustine who normally get aflu shot anyway.
They could really do somethingpretty cool and be a part of
some leading edge medicalresearch, right, Dr.
Koren?
Dr.MichaelKoren (00:50):
That's right, Kevin.
Good morning.
KevinGeddings (00:51):
Good morning.
Well, doing well.
It's a Jaguar Victory Monday,so we're all happy over here.
Dr.MichaelKoren (00:56):
Yeah.
Always makes somebody feel alittle bit better about the week
to come.
KevinGeddings (01:00):
Yeah, but I know this is the season, right, to
get your flu shot.
A lot of folks typically getthem anyway.
Maybe they don't get them atthe exact same time every year,
but I would imagine a lot of ourlisteners have not got received
a flu shot yet, and theyshould, and they could do this
in a really interesting way byworking with encore docs, right?
Dr.MichaelKoren (01:18):
Absolutely.
As a matter of fact, in St.
Augustine, as we speak, we'restarting to recruit patients for
an interesting program that'scomparing two types of flu
shots.
So this is one of thoseexamples where everybody gets an
active therapy, but we'relooking to see if a standard
three strain flu shot and astandard four strain flu shot
(01:40):
result in any differences.
So this gets into some of thetechnicalities of how flu shots
work, but every year weanticipate what strains may hit
a community.
And you can put a certainnumber of strains in any
particular vaccine.
Sometimes it's three, sometimesit's four, and want to see in
this case is three better thanfour.
So in this case, everybody getsuh a flu shot, so that's good.
(02:04):
And in fact, you get paid forthis.
So people can expect an extralittle bit more than $500 for
participating in this programwhere we just see how people do
with the three versus the fourstrain shot.
KevinGeddings (02:14):
Oh, that's great.
And of course, all that'sinvolved, I would imagine, is
that the uh patient is then orthe participant is tracked to
see, you know, what the impactof the different shots might be
over time.
Dr.MichaelKoren (02:25):
Yeah, exactly.
Just keep it keep in touch.
There'll be a diary.
You let us know if you feelsick, and we'll check you out.
That's actually one of thereally nice things about the
programs is that if you do getsick over the next six months,
we'll see if you have the flu.
KevinGeddings (02:38):
Right.
Dr.MichaelKoren (02:39):
And so you'll you'll get uh you'll you'll be
you'll be in a situation whereyou get a lot more information
than you would if you're not ina program.
Uh we are taking reservationsfor the study now as we speak.
Uh this particular studythough, by the way, is for older
people, 65 and up.
So just want to make sureeverybody understands that.
KevinGeddings (02:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
If you're aged 65 and older andyou have not yet received your
flu shot, this would be a greatway to participate in one, like
Dr.
Koren indicated.
You're going to get a flu shot.
It's not that you're going toget, you know, uh, you know,
something that's not going totake a look at the case.
Dr.MichaelKoren (03:09):
No placebo.
KevinGeddings (03:10):
Yeah, no placebo.
Right.
Uh and all you have to do isonce again call them here
locally in St.
Augustine.
They're convenient right therein the Whetstone building next
door to Flagler Hospital.
904-730-0166 and ask about thestudy that Dr.
Koren has mentioned about theflu shot this morning.
Once again, you have to be aged65 and older.
904-730-0166.
(03:33):
And just, I guess, me being alayman here, so I I guess the
theory is that if it's fourstrains instead of three
strains, it's better coverage.
I mean, that's what we're goingto try to figure out with this
study.
Dr.MichaelKoren (03:44):
Yeah, basically, that's right.
KevinGeddings (03:45):
Okay.
Dr.MichaelKoren (03:46):
Uh so there's a little bit of a trade-off
between having more strains andhaving a local skin reaction,
for example.
So uh do more people get alocal skin reaction with four
versus three versus moreprotection?
So these are the kind ofresearch questions that we ask,
and then we hopefully solve withresearch programs.
KevinGeddings (04:04):
I've always wondered about this too, and
just getting mine earlier thisyear or a couple you know, a
couple weeks ago.
Um you have the option, they'llsay, like even at Publix or
something, that you can get aflu shot, the regular flu shot,
and then if you're over 65, youcan get a different flu shot.
What's that?
What are we experiencing whenthat happens?
Dr.MichaelKoren (04:20):
Well, it it it's some of the same things.
Um, you know, there there'sactually a reasonable amount of
competition amongst differentmanufacturers in terms of of flu
vaccines, but most patientsdon't order flu vaccines based
on any brand name or things ofthat nature.
So uh a pharmacist would behelpful too, uh based on both
FDA approval status and probablybusiness deals between whatever
(04:45):
the organization is that'sgiving the shot and the
manufacturer, there'll be um thetendency to use one product
versus another.
It's very rare that patientsactually ask for a flu vaccine
by the trade name.
But you can't do that actually.
KevinGeddings (05:00):
So And should we?
I mean, is there a difference?
Is there a uh a Chevy flu shotversus a Cadillac flu shot?
Dr.MichaelKoren (05:07):
Uh well uh what I would say is there's probably
a uh Chevy flu shot versus aTesla flu shot, uh meaning that
they maybe have slightlydifferent mechanisms, but
they'll all get you to yourdestination quite well.
There you go.
So yeah, it gets gets into someof the subtle differences that
(05:28):
we'd have to do an entirepodcast to fully explain.
KevinGeddings (05:31):
That's something we should do that actually at
some point.
So Dr.
Koren does such a great job ofanswering my dumb questions
without actually saying thatthey're dumb questions, which I
always think.
Dr.MichaelKoren (05:39):
It's not a dumb question, but um I do actually
tell my patients uh um the onesthat are more vulnerable that
they may want the quadravalanceshot, which is the four strains.
Right.
So that's one little take-homemessage.
But the truth is that we're notsure if that makes that much of
a difference for most patients.
So we don't like to oversellthings, especially if there's
(06:01):
going to be a price differenceon a retail basis.
KevinGeddings (06:03):
There you go.
Well, once again, if you're justhopping in your vehicle or just
tuning us in, Dr.
Michael Koren is here with me,of course, medical doctor,
cardiologist, and researchscientists, and with
ENCORE Research Group, andENCORE Research Group is doing a
study right now with flu shots.
So if you're aged 65 and older,you can participate in the
study.
You'll obviously get a flu shotat no charge.
You'll also get additionalcompensation, I think up to like
$500.
(06:24):
Um, and you'll be testing thedifference between one flu shot
that will take care of threestrains of flu, the other four
strains, but one way or theother you'll be covered, and
then you'll also get some of thebest healthcare, I would argue,
that you've ever experienced bybeing a participant in this
study.
Go to Encorodocs.com.
That's spelled E-N-C-O-R-Edocs.com, Encoredocs.com.
(06:45):
And before we let you go, ofcourse, there's so much medical
news out there, right, with RFKJr.
and all this other stuff goingon in Washington.
MedEvidence is a great platformto kind of sift through all
this stuff, right, Doctor?
Dr.MichaelKoren (06:58):
It is.
It it really is.
I'm so pleased with that I'mgetting tremendously positive
feedback about MedEvidence.
And you know, a lot of thingsin medicine are complicated,
Kevin, and it's it's not thingsthat are necessarily pat saying
that this is great for everybodyor this is horrible for
everybody.
Most things in medicine dependon who is involved in the
(07:20):
decision making and who is goingto be going to be getting the
treatment or or the diagnosticprocedure.
So you have to individualizethings.
So how do you get informationout to the public when the best
information is individualized?
And the way we do that is byjust discussing the issue in
general so then people can drawconclusions that are relevant
(07:40):
for each particular personlistening or viewing.
So I hope that makes sense.
Um but you probably go tofamily events, which I did
recently, and I'll ask somebody,um, oh, what supplements do you
take?
And they'll give me a list offour supplements.
And I ask them, Well, why doyou take that?
And they say, Oh, my friendsaid it was good.
Well, medicine doesn't worklike that.
(08:02):
Things are not good or badintrinsically necessarily.
Things are good or bad forindividuals based on
circumstances.
So we try to help peopleunderstand that for in Med
Evidence.
So a lot of things areappropriate under certain
circumstances, but in many casesthey're not appropriate.
So you need to just become moreeducated, listen to experts
(08:23):
talk about it, and then you'lldraw the right conclusions for
you and your family.
KevinGeddings (08:27):
Yeah.
Well, and what I like about theMedEvidence platform, once
again, go to Medevidence.com,it's very intuitive, very easy
to navigate, and of course,information available on a
variety of different platforms.
So it's just easy to use.
So I encourage you, you know,you always have time, of course,
to surf the web a little bit.
Go to medevidence.com.
Medevidence.com, the truthbehind the data.
(08:48):
I promise you, it's going to bea good experience, and you're
going to use it as a resourcemoving forward and share it too
with other friends, familymembers, you know, who you may
be having conversations withabout various health topics.
Medevidence.com.
Dr.
Michael Koren, thank you forall your time this morning.
We appreciate you, and we'lltalk soon, okay?
My pleasure.
Have a great week.
Announcer (09:06):
Thanks for joining the Med Evidence Podcast.
To learn more, head over toMedevidence.com or subscribe to
our podcast on your favoritepodcast platform.
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