July 28, 2025 • 10 mins
Cardiologist Dr. Michael Koren joins Kevin Geddings to talk about how we can learn a lot about medicine by knowing our history. The duo discuss how the history of healthcare, including smallpox inoculation in the 1800s, can inform us of the benefits of life-saving medicines like vaccines. They also talk about the history of obesity, the old city of St. Augustine, and how this all relates to modern medicine.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Announcer (00:00):
Welcome to the MedEvidence Monday Minute Radio
Show hosted by Kevin Geddings ofWSOS St Augustine Radio and
powered by Encore Research Group.
Each Monday morning, Dr.
Michael Koren calls in to bringyou the latest medical updates
with insightful discussions.
Medevidence is where we helpyou navigate the real truth
behind medical research, withboth a clinical and research
(00:20):
perspective.
So sit back, relax and getready to learn about the truth
behind the data in medicine andhealthcare.
This is MedEvidence!
Kevin Geddings (00:30):
Dr.
Michael Koren joining us, liveon the studio line right now and
, of course, he is a medicaldoctor cardiologist and a
research scientist and of coursehe directs the show at ENCORE
Research Group, where you and Iand others can participate in
leading-edge clinical researchon all sorts of different topics
of health, and we can do itright from an operation here in
(00:51):
St.
Augustine, in St.
Johns County, of course ENCOREResearch Group, with offices
right in the Whetstone buildingnext door to UF Flagler Hospital
.
Speaking of Flagler and theFlagler legacy, which is such a
part of St.
Johns County and St.
Augustine, you had a chance, Iguess on Saturday to tour the
historical parts of FlaglerCollege, right.
Dr. Michael Koren (01:10):
I did.
I did Good morning, Kevin.
Fun to have this discussionabout Flagler College.
I've been in it, but I nevergot a behind-the-scenes tour,
and a fellow named Ron, who isthe facilities manager there,
took us literally into the nooksand crannies of the college and
(01:32):
really showed us a number ofreally super interesting things
from the Gilded Age.
And, as I think a lot of peopleknow, the college was built as
the Ponce de Leon Hotel back inthe 1880s and this was really
the most luxurious hotel in thecountry and it rivaled the type
(01:52):
of living of the Europeanprinces and kings.
And so when you go through thistour you just get a sense for
this.
It's the largest collection ofTiffany glass in the world just
magnificent pieces.
Tiffany tile the stonework ofthe stonemasons is just off the
charts.
The dining hall and, it tells,the dining hall are just
(02:16):
examples of opulence from the19th century that are just
unbelievable when you look at itand study it.
And it got me wondering whetheror not the students that live
in this environment really havean appreciation for the fact
that they live the way kings andqueens lived in the 19th
century.
The only thing is that theirfood is much better, because
(02:39):
modern food is better than thestuff they were eating back in
the 19th century.
So just it's so interesting howhistory can kind of sneak up on
us and we don't evennecessarily appreciate what we
have, unless we start to studyit.
Kevin Geddings (02:53):
Yeah, absolutely , and that's interesting too in
the context of how we viewhealth issues.
Right, and I know all thisvaccine skepticism and questions
that you know Secretary Kennedyand others have provoked out
there.
Sometimes it seems to ignorethe lessons of history, right,
which medicine has quite ahistory.
Dr. Michael Koren (03:11):
Exactly and the parallel is absolutely
perfect, which is medicine isincredibly rich in history and
one of the things that we dowell in medicine is that we
train people in medicine tounderstand that history and then
to apply it.
And you can see, in the modernera it's very easy to forget the
lessons of history.
So you brought up the vaccineissues.
(03:32):
Well, the concept of vaccinesgoes back to, actually, the
Middle East and Africa from 500years ago, and Europeans slowly
but surely learned that byinoculating people for
infectious disease you preventsevere complications of that
particular illness.
And sometimes that incrediblyimportant lesson in history is
(03:53):
lost.
And one of my favorite storiesto tell about is an African
slave named Onesimus whoactually worked with Cotton
Mather in the colonies theMassachusetts colonies, before
the United States was formed,and the two of them actually
protected the population againstsmallpox by inoculating over
(04:14):
200 people in the colonies withsmallpox and against smallpox,
and the death rate in theMassachusetts colonies was much
less than any other placebecause of this knowledge being
applied to protect the patients.
So again, one of many, manyexamples of lessons of history
that could be applied to helppeople prevent illness and,
(04:36):
ultimately, help people makegood decisions for themselves
and their family.
Kevin Geddings (04:39):
It seems like more so than any other field.
Medicine does learn the lessonsof history, right?
You're always building on whathas been learned.
We don't necessarily do thatvery well in government and
politics and things like that,but we do it pretty well in
medicine, correct, Becausethere's a structure for it.
Dr. Michael Koren (04:57):
There is, there, absolutely is as a matter
of fact, in our MedEvidenceplatform, which is our
educational media platform, oneof the things we're doing now is
creating research grand rounds,and this is a concept that
actually goes back to WilliamOsler, who used to take
physicians around to seepatients that had interesting
illnesses and then shareinsights about those particular
(05:18):
patients.
So that's also 19th century.
Now in the 21st century, withinformation technology, we can
do the same thing, but insteadof showing a dozen physicians
what's going on, we canliterally show millions of
people what's going on.
So that's a platform that we'relaunching as we speak, but in a
general sense, the public hasaccess to that when they hear
(05:41):
medical experts discussing anissue on MedE vidence, so we'd
encourage them to quote, learnlessons of history and to glean
the insights of experts who arediscussing these issues with one
another in this really uniqueformat.
Kevin Geddings (05:54):
Yeah, absolutely .
Once again, we're spending timewith Dr.
Michael Koren, medical doctor,cardiologist, research scientist
.
You can always connect withwhat we're talking about by
going to encordocs.
com and to fully appreciate therole that history plays in
medicine, you'll get a veryclear sense of that when you go
and check out the MedEvidencewebsite the truth behind all
this healthcare data that seemsto come at us like a blizzard.
(06:16):
Right, Go to MedEidence.
com.
That's medevidence.
com.
Hey, getting back ENCOREResearch Group.
And, of course, when we talkabout history and what is
learned and learning the lessonsof history, part of that ties
into what you do with clinicalresearch, right, Because you're
kind of at the very beginningpoint of the history of trying
to, you know, solve a particularhealth issue, correct?
Dr. Michael Koren (06:36):
Yeah, yeah.
So getting back to what wetalked about with the legacy of
Henry Flagler, as you know,Kevin, back in the late 19th
century and the early 20thcentury, the only people who
were really obese were thewealthy, because they ate rich
foods and they could afford it,and food was relatively
expensive back then, andmiddle-class people and poor
(06:59):
people had to work hard just toput food on the table, literally
.
And now food is comparativelycheap and there's this obesity
paradox where the people who arethe most overweight are the
people who are on the lowestrung in the socioeconomic ladder
.
So that's been completelyflipped.
And because of ourunderstanding of history of
medicine, we realized that a lotof this has to do with the
(07:22):
biology of human beings, and thefact is that when you have
access to food, you're going toeat.
It's naturally what we do andwe know the mechanisms by which
that occurs, and we actuallyhave medications that help
people fight off thesebiological instincts and so we
can help people that areoverweight, that are struggling,
(07:43):
that need some additional help.
In our clinical research and aswe speak, there are multiple
studies helping people who areoverweight and you would be
blown away by the differentmechanisms that we're using.
So, for example, we have onestudy now that's taking people
who are overweight with diabetesand we're actually doing a
procedure on their intestines toprevent their intestines from
(08:07):
absorbing nutrients asefficiently as they would
otherwise.
So this is actually a medicalprocedure to help people control
obesity.
And then, of course, we'reusing medicines in the GLP class
, which actually enhance thesignaling between the gut and
the brain to help people feelsatiated or full after they have
a meal, and so enhancing thatnatural mechanism that sometimes
(08:31):
doesn't work as well as itshould in a stressful
environment or for people thatmay or may not be able to do as
much physical activity as theywould like to do optimally.
So so many different thingsthat we'll work on in the
obesity space.
These are people that havedermatological problems, that
have cardiac problems, that haveliver problems and the protean
(08:53):
manifestations of obesity areall being addressed in our
clinical research as we speak,so we encourage people to call
and learn more about it.
It might be something thathelps them.
Kevin Geddings (09:02):
Yeah, indeed, if someone is out there and
they're struggling with theirweight or with obesity issues
and they've thought about someof the GLP-1 drugs etc.
They should reach out to ENCOREResearch Group.
They may get to participate andget the benefit of some of
these medications at no charge,right?
Dr. Michael Koren (09:19):
Absolutely.
We never charge our patients.
Most of the studies have beento compensate patients for their
time and their travel.
Kevin Geddings (09:27):
Absolutely Well once again go to EncoreDocs.
com, not only if you have aconcern about obesity and other
issues, just about every area ofhealth.
There are some sort of clinicaltrial that you may get to
participate in.
So it pays for anyone listening, to get in touch with them here
locally.
EncoreD ocs.
com.
That's spelled E N C O R E,encore docs.
(09:47):
com.
The phone number here locallynine zero four, seven, three
zero zero one six six.
You'll get to speak to a liveprofessional who will help guide
you in this process and answerany questions you have about
what Dr.
Koren talks about with us onMonday mornings, 904-730-0166.
Dr Koren.
Any closing thoughts thismorning?
Dr. Michael Koren (10:09):
My closing thought, Kevin, is to know your
history, because those who donot know their history will
repeat the mistakes that havebeen made historically.
So study your history.
Kevin Geddings (10:20):
Good advice.
Thank you, doc.
We hope you're safe out thereand we'll speak next week.
Announcer (10:25):
Take care, have a great week.
Thanks for joining theMedEvidence Podcast.
To learn more, head over toMedEvidencecom or subscribe to
our podcast on your favoritepodcast platform.
Welcome to the MedEvidence Monday Minute Radio
Show hosted by Kevin Geddings ofWSOS St Augustine Radio and
powered by Encore Research Group.
Each Monday morning, Dr.
Michael Koren calls in to bringyou the latest medical updates
with insightful discussions.
Medevidence is where we helpyou navigate the real truth
behind medical research, withboth a clinical and research
(00:20):
perspective.
So sit back, relax and getready to learn about the truth
behind the data in medicine andhealthcare.
This is MedEvidence!
Kevin Geddings (00:30):
Dr.
Michael Koren joining us, liveon the studio line right now and
, of course, he is a medicaldoctor cardiologist and a
research scientist and of coursehe directs the show at ENCORE
Research Group, where you and Iand others can participate in
leading-edge clinical researchon all sorts of different topics
of health, and we can do itright from an operation here in
(00:51):
St.
Augustine, in St.
Johns County, of course ENCOREResearch Group, with offices
right in the Whetstone buildingnext door to UF Flagler Hospital
.
Speaking of Flagler and theFlagler legacy, which is such a
part of St.
Johns County and St.
Augustine, you had a chance, Iguess on Saturday to tour the
historical parts of FlaglerCollege, right.
Dr. Michael Koren (01:10):
I did.
I did Good morning, Kevin.
Fun to have this discussionabout Flagler College.
I've been in it, but I nevergot a behind-the-scenes tour,
and a fellow named Ron, who isthe facilities manager there,
took us literally into the nooksand crannies of the college and
(01:32):
really showed us a number ofreally super interesting things
from the Gilded Age.
And, as I think a lot of peopleknow, the college was built as
the Ponce de Leon Hotel back inthe 1880s and this was really
the most luxurious hotel in thecountry and it rivaled the type
(01:52):
of living of the Europeanprinces and kings.
And so when you go through thistour you just get a sense for
this.
It's the largest collection ofTiffany glass in the world just
magnificent pieces.
Tiffany tile the stonework ofthe stonemasons is just off the
charts.
The dining hall and, it tells,the dining hall are just
(02:16):
examples of opulence from the19th century that are just
unbelievable when you look at itand study it.
And it got me wondering whetheror not the students that live
in this environment really havean appreciation for the fact
that they live the way kings andqueens lived in the 19th
century.
The only thing is that theirfood is much better, because
(02:39):
modern food is better than thestuff they were eating back in
the 19th century.
So just it's so interesting howhistory can kind of sneak up on
us and we don't evennecessarily appreciate what we
have, unless we start to studyit.
Kevin Geddings (02:53):
Yeah, absolutely , and that's interesting too in
the context of how we viewhealth issues.
Right, and I know all thisvaccine skepticism and questions
that you know Secretary Kennedyand others have provoked out
there.
Sometimes it seems to ignorethe lessons of history, right,
which medicine has quite ahistory.
Dr. Michael Koren (03:11):
Exactly and the parallel is absolutely
perfect, which is medicine isincredibly rich in history and
one of the things that we dowell in medicine is that we
train people in medicine tounderstand that history and then
to apply it.
And you can see, in the modernera it's very easy to forget the
lessons of history.
So you brought up the vaccineissues.
(03:32):
Well, the concept of vaccinesgoes back to, actually, the
Middle East and Africa from 500years ago, and Europeans slowly
but surely learned that byinoculating people for
infectious disease you preventsevere complications of that
particular illness.
And sometimes that incrediblyimportant lesson in history is
(03:53):
lost.
And one of my favorite storiesto tell about is an African
slave named Onesimus whoactually worked with Cotton
Mather in the colonies theMassachusetts colonies, before
the United States was formed,and the two of them actually
protected the population againstsmallpox by inoculating over
(04:14):
200 people in the colonies withsmallpox and against smallpox,
and the death rate in theMassachusetts colonies was much
less than any other placebecause of this knowledge being
applied to protect the patients.
So again, one of many, manyexamples of lessons of history
that could be applied to helppeople prevent illness and,
(04:36):
ultimately, help people makegood decisions for themselves
and their family.
Kevin Geddings (04:39):
It seems like more so than any other field.
Medicine does learn the lessonsof history, right?
You're always building on whathas been learned.
We don't necessarily do thatvery well in government and
politics and things like that,but we do it pretty well in
medicine, correct, Becausethere's a structure for it.
Dr. Michael Koren (04:57):
There is, there, absolutely is as a matter
of fact, in our MedEvidenceplatform, which is our
educational media platform, oneof the things we're doing now is
creating research grand rounds,and this is a concept that
actually goes back to WilliamOsler, who used to take
physicians around to seepatients that had interesting
illnesses and then shareinsights about those particular
(05:18):
patients.
So that's also 19th century.
Now in the 21st century, withinformation technology, we can
do the same thing, but insteadof showing a dozen physicians
what's going on, we canliterally show millions of
people what's going on.
So that's a platform that we'relaunching as we speak, but in a
general sense, the public hasaccess to that when they hear
(05:41):
medical experts discussing anissue on MedE vidence, so we'd
encourage them to quote, learnlessons of history and to glean
the insights of experts who arediscussing these issues with one
another in this really uniqueformat.
Kevin Geddings (05:54):
Yeah, absolutely .
Once again, we're spending timewith Dr.
Michael Koren, medical doctor,cardiologist, research scientist
.
You can always connect withwhat we're talking about by
going to encordocs.
com and to fully appreciate therole that history plays in
medicine, you'll get a veryclear sense of that when you go
and check out the MedEvidencewebsite the truth behind all
this healthcare data that seemsto come at us like a blizzard.
(06:16):
Right, Go to MedEidence.
com.
That's medevidence.
com.
Hey, getting back ENCOREResearch Group.
And, of course, when we talkabout history and what is
learned and learning the lessonsof history, part of that ties
into what you do with clinicalresearch, right, Because you're
kind of at the very beginningpoint of the history of trying
to, you know, solve a particularhealth issue, correct?
Dr. Michael Koren (06:36):
Yeah, yeah.
So getting back to what wetalked about with the legacy of
Henry Flagler, as you know,Kevin, back in the late 19th
century and the early 20thcentury, the only people who
were really obese were thewealthy, because they ate rich
foods and they could afford it,and food was relatively
expensive back then, andmiddle-class people and poor
(06:59):
people had to work hard just toput food on the table, literally
.
And now food is comparativelycheap and there's this obesity
paradox where the people who arethe most overweight are the
people who are on the lowestrung in the socioeconomic ladder
.
So that's been completelyflipped.
And because of ourunderstanding of history of
medicine, we realized that a lotof this has to do with the
(07:22):
biology of human beings, and thefact is that when you have
access to food, you're going toeat.
It's naturally what we do andwe know the mechanisms by which
that occurs, and we actuallyhave medications that help
people fight off thesebiological instincts and so we
can help people that areoverweight, that are struggling,
(07:43):
that need some additional help.
In our clinical research and aswe speak, there are multiple
studies helping people who areoverweight and you would be
blown away by the differentmechanisms that we're using.
So, for example, we have onestudy now that's taking people
who are overweight with diabetesand we're actually doing a
procedure on their intestines toprevent their intestines from
(08:07):
absorbing nutrients asefficiently as they would
otherwise.
So this is actually a medicalprocedure to help people control
obesity.
And then, of course, we'reusing medicines in the GLP class
, which actually enhance thesignaling between the gut and
the brain to help people feelsatiated or full after they have
a meal, and so enhancing thatnatural mechanism that sometimes
(08:31):
doesn't work as well as itshould in a stressful
environment or for people thatmay or may not be able to do as
much physical activity as theywould like to do optimally.
So so many different thingsthat we'll work on in the
obesity space.
These are people that havedermatological problems, that
have cardiac problems, that haveliver problems and the protean
(08:53):
manifestations of obesity areall being addressed in our
clinical research as we speak,so we encourage people to call
and learn more about it.
It might be something thathelps them.
Kevin Geddings (09:02):
Yeah, indeed, if someone is out there and
they're struggling with theirweight or with obesity issues
and they've thought about someof the GLP-1 drugs etc.
They should reach out to ENCOREResearch Group.
They may get to participate andget the benefit of some of
these medications at no charge,right?
Dr. Michael Koren (09:19):
Absolutely.
We never charge our patients.
Most of the studies have beento compensate patients for their
time and their travel.
Kevin Geddings (09:27):
Absolutely Well once again go to EncoreDocs.
com, not only if you have aconcern about obesity and other
issues, just about every area ofhealth.
There are some sort of clinicaltrial that you may get to
participate in.
So it pays for anyone listening, to get in touch with them here
locally.
EncoreD ocs.
com.
That's spelled E N C O R E,encore docs.
(09:47):
com.
The phone number here locallynine zero four, seven, three
zero zero one six six.
You'll get to speak to a liveprofessional who will help guide
you in this process and answerany questions you have about
what Dr.
Koren talks about with us onMonday mornings, 904-730-0166.
Dr Koren.
Any closing thoughts thismorning?
Dr. Michael Koren (10:09):
My closing thought, Kevin, is to know your
history, because those who donot know their history will
repeat the mistakes that havebeen made historically.
So study your history.
Kevin Geddings (10:20):
Good advice.
Thank you, doc.
We hope you're safe out thereand we'll speak next week.
Announcer (10:25):
Take care, have a great week.
Thanks for joining theMedEvidence Podcast.
To learn more, head over toMedEvidencecom or subscribe to
our podcast on your favoritepodcast platform.
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