🕗 Oral COVID Vaccines: A New Frontier Ep. 295

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Dr. Michael Koren shares exciting news about the revival of an oral COVID vaccine study previously halted by government spending cuts. The non-mRNA vaccine trial represents an important alternative approach that apparently received priority status even under strict budget reviews.

• Oral COVID vaccine study in Jacksonville now actively enrolling participants after being temporarily halted by DOGE initiative
• Study offers a non-mRNA alternative that might appeal to those concerned about messenger RNA technology
• Summer months in Florida paradoxically see increases in respiratory infections as people spend more time indoors with air conditioning
• Dr. Koren explains why most vaccines require injection rather than oral delivery
• Discussion of pharmaceutical pricing disparities between US and other countries
• The "innovation premium" Americans pay funds research that benefits the global population
• Finding balance between incentivizing medical breakthroughs and ensuring fair cost distribution remains challenging

For reliable, unbiased medical information, visit MedEvidence.com. To learn more about participating in the oral COVID vaccine study or other clinical trials, visit EncoreDocs.com.

Be a part of advancing science by participating in clinical research.

Have a question for Dr. Koren? Email him at [e-mail]

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Music: Storyblocks - Corporate Inspired

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Episode Transcript

Announcer (00:00):
Welcome to the MedEvidence Monday Minute Radio
Show hosted by Kevin Gettings ofWSOS St Augustine Radio and
powered by Encore Research Group.
Each Monday morning, dr MichaelKoren calls in to bring you the
latest medical updates withinsightful discussions.
Medevidence is where we helpyou navigate the real truth
behind medical research, withboth a clinical and research

(00:20):
perspective.
So sit back, relax and getready to learn about the truth
behind the data in medicine andhealthcare.
This is MedEvidence.

Kevin Geddings (00:30):
And we're joined live on the studio line by Dr.
Michael Koren, medical doctor,cardiologist, research scientist
, of course, and we appreciateDr.
Koren always being available totalk with us, and you can
always connect with him too bygoing to the website EncoreDocs.
com.
That's EncoreDocs.
com.
We're going to talk aboutanother website that he's very
involved with too, but we'll getto that in just a moment.

(00:52):
Dr.
Koren, good morning.

Dr. Michael Koren (00:54):
Good morning Kevin.
How are you?

Kevin Geddings (00:55):
Well, I'm doing well, doing well.
So some interesting experiencesthat you've had.
Actually, you know closely withDOGE effort with Elon Musk and
the effort to trim federalgovernment spending right.
Apparently it crosses into even, you know, potentially COVID
oral vaccines right.

Dr. Michael Koren (01:12):
Yeah, yeah, you and I had a conversation on
Monday when I got back fromSaudi Arabia and shortly after
our last discussion I learnedthat a study that had been put
on hold because of DOGE hasstarted up.
In fact, it started up while Iwas away and I think it's

(01:35):
actually super interesting forthe listeners to know about it.
So obviously, our organizationhas done a lot of work with the
COVID vaccines.
We were very involved with theModerna trials and the Pfizer
trials and the Novavax trials.
The Moderna and Pfizer trialsinvolved the messenger RNA
vaccine and the Novavax is adifferent type of vaccine.
So we've done both messengerRNA and non-messenger RNA
vaccines.
So we've been in this space and, as of last year, we were

(01:58):
scheduled to work with a companyon an oral COVID vaccine that
does not use a messenger RNAtechnology.
So we were excited about that,because some people are
concerned about the messengerRNA technology, although
personally I don't have anyconcerns about it, but it's out
there and we respect people'sopinion.
So we were ready to get goingwith this program.

(02:18):
And then, shortly after theTrump administration got in and
DOGE started, we were told thatthe study was put on hold
indefinitely because theDepartment of Defense was a
major funder of the study andall those type of initiatives
would be put on indefinite hold.
So of course we weren't able todo much about that and just

(02:43):
accepted that and figured thatwe would not be doing this study
and that would be a priority.
But lo and behold, last week wewere given the green light to
start the study, and one canonly imagine that when this was
looked at in terms of thepriorities of the government,
they felt that this was a superimportant study to fund, and I

(03:04):
guess Elon Musk I don't knowthis for sure, but he probably
had some review of this at somelevel, either directly or
indirectly, and decided thatthis should be a priority and
something that the governmentshould be funding, because
people are certainly looking foralternatives to help protect
them against COVID.
So, we're super excited about itand we're glad that, even with

(03:27):
DOGE and a very critical review,that the priority of this work
was considered very high.

Kevin Geddings (03:33):
Wow, that's interesting.
Is it possible for folkslistening to still participate
in that study?

Dr. Michael Koren (03:39):
It is.
It is, in fact, right now it'sjust enrolling in Jacksonville,
but over time it'll be in otherplaces.
But you can get going with it.
Right now it's just enrollingin Jacksonville, but over time
it'll be in other places.
But you can get going withright now, especially if you
don't mind coming to our centeron University Boulevard in
Jacksonville.
We are enrolling as we speakand we've already had quite a
few patients sign up for it andget involved with it, and it's a

(03:59):
very simple program thatbasically involves an oral
vaccine to protect you againstCOVID.
And while you know we're stillin the springtime, going into
the summer, we In Florida thingsare a little bit different than
other parts of the country, sotraditionally the cold and flu
season occurs in the wintermonths, but in Florida, because

(04:21):
of the heat of the summer,people spend more time indoors
during the summer, whichparadoxically means that we
sometimes get more cold and flucases during the summer months.
It's actually very typically aspike in viral illnesses in
Florida during the summer monthsbecause we spend more time
inside.
So it's a really good timeactually to get involved in the
study and to learn about whatwe're doing.

(04:43):
Obviously, there's no chargefor anybody and in fact, there's
a small stipend for people whoparticipate, because we do value
your time and effort.

Kevin Geddings (04:50):
If you're just hopping in your vehicle or
tuning us on, that's Dr.
Michael Koren, of course, withENCORE Research Group, and we're
talking about the study dealingwith an oral vaccine for COVID.
Why is it that we I know wehave an oral vaccine for polio,
but we don't have an oralvaccine for some of the other
issues that we have out there,things like pneumonia, for
example?
Why is it that we have it forsome but not for other disease

(05:14):
conditions?

Dr. Michael Koren (05:15):
Well, any vaccine has to expose the human
body to the pathogen that youwant protection for, and the
truth is that a lot of thingsthat you take orally don't
elicit enough of an immuneresponse to be protective.
So, over the years, there havebeen other delivery mechanisms
for vaccines.
It could be nasal, it could beprotective.

(05:35):
So, over the years, there havebeen other delivery mechanisms
for vaccines.
It could be nasal, it could beoral, but we find, by and large,
that injections are whatactually gets your immune system
to a point where it'll protectyou against those particular
pathogens.
Having said that, there arealways efforts to try to do
better and better with differenttypes of vaccines and different

(05:57):
routes and, as you point out,polio is an example of a viral
illness that we can protectpeople with with an oral vaccine
, and we think COVID could be asimilar disease that we protect
people from with an oral vaccine.
So that's what we're doing nowand it's a super good question,
but I think as we learn more andmore about how the immune

(06:18):
system works, we'll have moreand more opportunities to
actually help people getprotection from these diseases
with an oral agent.

Kevin Geddings (06:26):
That's Dr.
Michael Koren, once again withus.
Live on the studio line.
If you have any interest inparticipating in this study
regarding an oral vaccine forCOVID, go to EncoreDocs.
com.
That's EncoreDocs.
com.
That's spelled with an EEncoreDocs.
com.
I have to ask you, just becauseit was such a news headline
over the last couple of days theTrump administration's efforts

(06:47):
to limit pharmaceutical pricing.
Any thoughts on that, Dr.
Koren?

Dr. Michael Koren (06:52):
Yeah, it's a really interesting problem.
It's actually a problem thatI've touched on with some of my
professional organizations, andthe truth is is that we pay more
for pharmaceuticals in the USthan any place on the planet,
for a number of reasons because,of course, in the US market and

(07:12):
we tend to get things beforeother markets but there's always
been this sense.
Is that fair?
Is it fair that we pay so muchmore?
Is it fair that the US consumeris paying the price for all the
innovation that, ultimately,the rest of the world benefits
from?
And so the point is a very,very reasonable point from the
Trump administration.

(07:33):
Now how you get to a fairsolution gets pretty, pretty
complicated.
Of course, the flip side is that, because of the fact that the
US market is so dominant interms of drug development, we
get a lot of benefits.
We get a lot of benefits interms of jobs and organizations
like ours, where people make aliving from doing this research,

(07:55):
and we certainly don't wantthat to go away.
That's one of the elements.
Two is that, because of thepremium that the drug companies
get, they invest a lot of moneyon innovation.
So literally some of the thingsthat we talk about, whether
it's messenger RNA or monoclonalantibodies or some of these

(08:16):
just incredible things thatwe've learned over the last 30
years, is in large part, drivenby the ultimate profit objective
of these companies.
So you know, they arebusinesses, they are looking for
profit at the end of the day,but the consumers really, really
benefit by virtue of the factthat this innovation is
mind-boggling in many cases, andthings that were not even

(08:38):
conceivable to cure were able tocure nowadays.
But getting back to the pointof fairness, I think that's a
legitimate discussion.
So how do we come up with asystem where we still have the
innovation premium, which iswhat I like to call it, but
share the cost of the innovationpremium with other people
around the world who right now,are kind of getting a little bit

(08:59):
of a free ride based on thefact that the US consumer is
picking up a big part of the tab?

Kevin Geddings (09:06):
Well, it's interesting to see how it plays
out.
I know there's like a 30-dayperiod where I guess
pharmaceutical companies can tryto respond.
So we'll keep up with that andwe'll continue to ask Dr Koren
for his thoughts and advice.
Speaking of Dr Koren, before welet him go too, we want to make
sure you're aware ofmedevidence.
com.
Medevidence.
com so often we want to just goon the Google machine and type

(09:26):
in why do I have this rash?
You probably won't get the mostaccurate or good best
information, but if you go tomedevidencecom you can trust
that information, right, Dr.
Koren?

Dr. Michael Koren (09:36):
Yeah, absolutely, and it's a good
point.
When you Google something or AI, it now, I guess, is a big
thing.
Typically, you're going to getinformation that's geared
towards somebody that's tryingto sell you something, and in
MedEvidence we don't have any ofthose issues.
We basically let people knowthe facts, which is in any
question or any medical problem.

(09:56):
There's things that we know forsure, the stuff that we really
don't know, and then there's aprocess to learn about the stuff
that you don't know, and wehelp people understand that
approach to all medical problems.
So, to your point, whatever themedical concern may be, please
take a look at our podcast, lookat our discussion.
One of the ways to learn aboutan issue is to see two

(10:17):
knowledgeable physicians talkabout it and you will glean
insights that I think you'llfind valuable for yourself and
your family.

Kevin Geddings (10:23):
Yeah, people are really enjoying that website.
It's very intuitive, easy touse and lots of good information
available in a variety ofplatforms.
So go to MedEvidence.
com.
That's MedEvidence.
com, Dr.
Koren.
Thanks for all the goodinformation today.
We hope you have a goodWednesday, All right?

Dr. Michael Koren (10:40):
Appreciate it Always a pleasure, Kevin.

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