December 1, 2025 • 8 mins
Dr. Michael Koren joins Kevin Geddings to share an anecdote; an acquaintance seemed to put trust in Mel Gibson on a podcast over the American healthcare system. The doctor analyzes why there has been an erosion of trust in this system, why institutions like the medical community and clinical research should be trusted, and how participating in clinical trials can increase your trust in the system as a whole. Dr. Koren also challenges listeners with a specific healthcare biomarker that may be putting your heart at risk.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:30):
Welcome to the MedEvidence! Monday Minute Radio Show, hosted by Kevin Geddings of WSOS St. Augustine Radio and powered by ENCORE Research Group. Each Monday morning, Dr. Michael Koren calls in to bring you the latest Medical Updates with insightful discussion. MedEvidence is where we help you navigate the real truth behind medical research, with Both clinical and research perspective. So step back, relax, and get ready to learn about the truth behind the data in medicine and healthcare. This is MedEvidence!
Kevin Geddings (00:30):
Good morning, Dr.
Koren,
Dr. Michael Koren (00:32):
Good morning, Kevin.
How are you?
Kevin Geddings (00:34):
Well, I'm doing doing well.
Doing well.
There's a lot of skepticism outthere, right?
About, you know, healthcarefacts and what works and what
doesn't for various healthcareconditions and diseases.
Dr. Michael Koren (00:46):
Yeah, yeah.
You and I were just chatting aswe were waiting to get on air
about an incident I had thisweekend.
It was not called incident, letme call it an interesting
conversation that I overheard.
And it was a woman who was anintelligent woman talking about
using ivermectin for cancer.
And she quoted, of all people,Mel Gibson, who apparently did a
(01:11):
podcast on Joe Rogan's showabout using ivermectin for
cancer.
And Mel Gibson claimed that hehad three friends, quote
unquote, who had stage fourcancer that were cured with
ivermectin.
And this woman was talkingabout the fact that the Canadian
physician who was prescribingivermectin with healing for
(01:33):
cancer lost his medical licenseand maybe coming to our area and
and she was wondering whetheror not this is something that we
should know about it andpursue.
And so when I heard this, itreally fascinated me, quite
frankly, because she basicallywas saying that she trusted Mel
Gibson more than our system.
And and why is that, Kevin?
(01:55):
Uh why would that be?
Obviously, you know, Mel Gibsonhas had his own well chronicled
problems with a lot of things,including uh maybe not seeing
the truth always very clearly.
But putting that aside, whywould she trust this anecdote?
Why would she even believe MelGibson rather than our system?
So I asked you that question.
What do you think?
Kevin Geddings (02:15):
Part of me thinks it goes back to COVID and
perhaps not the most preciseanswers coming out of the CDC
and others, which it would beimpossible to have precise
answers because we were dealingwith a great unknown, right?
But it did create this societalskepticism, right, of of the
healthcare institutions that wehad always acknowledged as being
(02:36):
mostly right in the past.
Dr. Michael Koren (02:38):
Yeah, yeah, I think that I think COVID did
affect people in that way.
I agree with you.
And I I think it's at thispoint really just a matter of
trust.
Kevin Geddings (02:46):
Right.
Dr. Michael Koren (02:47):
In healthcare, you have to know who
you can trust.
It's so critically important.
And if you don't trust thesystem, then things usually run
awry.
And as the system has gottenmore and more complicated, I
think people are less lesstrusting of the system.
Number one.
And number two, as as it'sgotten more and more complicated
(03:09):
and more and more, quote,computer-based, patients to
explain things as well as weused to.
And I think that also erodestrust in the system.
So, you know, one of the thingsI'm proud of in research is
that we address these issues ona day-to-day basis.
We spend a lot of time talkingwith our patients, explaining
(03:30):
the protocols that we'rerunning, explaining what the
medical questions are, and thenreally every step along the way
have a very nurturing approachto make sure the patient is in
agreement with what we're doing,they give their consent, and
also really understands whatwe're trying to accomplish, as
well as hear what their concernsare, whatever they may be, and
help them navigate thoseconcerns.
(03:50):
So with that in mind, I'm gonnajust throw a challenge out
there.
You know, you and I have talkedabout this problem of
lipoprotein(a).
And that's to remind everybodya form of LDL cholesterol that's
particularly dangerous.
So I'm just gonna throw thischallenge out.
If you know about Lp(a) and youknow that it's nothing for you
(04:11):
to be worried about, that'sgreat.
You don't have to hear reallyhear anymore or do any more
research.
If you don't know what Lp(a)is, that means you don't know
what your level is, you don'tknow what your family levels is.
Why don't you make an effort tofind out what it is?
And if it's super high, theremay be something we can do about
it.
If it's normal, then you feelreassured that you don't have to
worry about this issue.
(04:33):
And then if you find out thatit is high and about twenty
percent of people have highLp(a)'s, then find out what the
options are.
Right now there are no approveddrugs for Lp(a).
There's some drugs that help ita little bit, but we have drugs
in development that are reallysuper effective for reducing
Lp(a) levels by over 95%.
(04:53):
It's really quite remarkable.
And people can get involved inthese programs.
Now, there's no guarantee thatyou're gonna get these
medications immediately.
A lot of the programs we do areplacebo-controlled, and during
the course of the scientificpart of the inquiry, you don't
know exactly on.
But many of these programs alsohave these nice we call open
(05:13):
label extensions where once youfinish the program, there is an
opportunity perhaps to get themedication once it's shown to be
safe and effective.
So, yeah, that's my challengeis to take one little piece of
of medical inquiry in questionand figure out if it affects
you, if it affects your family,and then have a very discernible
plan to address it.
Kevin Geddings (05:34):
And also, Dr.
Koren, when folks engage andthey participate in clinical
trials, I think their level oftrust and confidence in science
and our healthcare systemincreases, right?
Because they get that kind ofone-on-one attention, they get
to be very engaged in what'sgoing on with their healthcare,
and that changes the whole waythey look at things, right?
Dr. Michael Koren (05:53):
I absolutely.
Yeah, trust is is a trickything.
It's very easy to lose it, veryhard to gain it.
Kevin Geddings (06:00):
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Koren (06:01):
And it's only through these experiences
together where people will gaintrust.
Those experiences, of course,could be with a great healthcare
provider.
You know, your your old MarcusWelby doctor who gains your
trust amongst his patients, orit could be through a clinical
research process, or just youknow, an institution that you've
seen over time come up withanswers and and and and address
(06:24):
your concerns.
But unfortunately, I would saymore times than not, our medical
institutions are not doingwhat's necessary to ensure that
trust develops.
And then what happens is thatpeople start to listen to Mel
Gibson.
Kevin Geddings (06:38):
Yeah, right.
Oh man.
Good actor, but I'm not sure Iwould get my healthcare
information from him, right?
Dr. Michael Koren (06:45):
No, I that I would uh I would agree with that
wholeheartedly.
Kevin Geddings (06:50):
That's Dr.
Michael Koren.
Speaking of trust and justgetting a broad swath of health
information that you can trust.
Uh, one other point I want tomake before we lose Dr.
Koren, medevidence.com, greatwebsite they should check out,
right, Doctor?
Dr. Michael Koren (07:05):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And again, this is alsosomething I'm I'm increasingly
proud of because of gettingreally positive feedback about
it.
And again, it's addressing thisissue of developing trust.
We don't know all the answers,Kevin, but we have processes to
learn what the answers are oncepeople give us the question.
And that's what MedEvidenceseeks to do.
(07:25):
You take whatever the questionis, you take whatever the
concern is, and you explain whatwe know about some particular
area of medicine or science.
We explain what we don't knowabout it, and then we explain
the process about how we learnabout that area.
And this could be on a broadbasis in terms of things like
how to treat cholesterolproblems better, as I just
(07:45):
mentioned, and am I a candidatefor this, that, or the other
treatment.
So uh we try to break it downfor people.
We believe it's a verytrustworthy source, again,
because we have typically twodoctors talking about the issue,
and by watching how these twodoctors bounce things off of
each other, you learn atremendous amount through the
eyes of people that understandthese in this area.
(08:07):
So I'd encourage people tocheck it out, see if they like
it, and let us know what youthink.
We're always interested ingetting feedback from people
that either view or listen tothe podcasts.
Kevin Geddings (08:18):
Once again, that website is MedEvidence.com, the
truth behind the data,MedEvidence.com.
Dr.
Koren, thank you very much foryour time, and we'll talk soon,
okay?
Dr. Michael Koren (08:27):
Have a great week, Kevin.
Announcer (08:29):
Thanks for joining the MedEvidence Podcast.
To learn more, head over toMedEvidence.com or subscribe to
our podcast on your favoritepodcast platform.
Welcome to the MedEvidence! Monday Minute Radio Show, hosted by Kevin Geddings of WSOS St. Augustine Radio and powered by ENCORE Research Group. Each Monday morning, Dr. Michael Koren calls in to bring you the latest Medical Updates with insightful discussion. MedEvidence is where we help you navigate the real truth behind medical research, with Both clinical and research perspective. So step back, relax, and get ready to learn about the truth behind the data in medicine and healthcare. This is MedEvidence!
Kevin Geddings (00:30):
Good morning, Dr.
Koren,
Dr. Michael Koren (00:32):
Good morning, Kevin.
How are you?
Kevin Geddings (00:34):
Well, I'm doing doing well.
Doing well.
There's a lot of skepticism outthere, right?
About, you know, healthcarefacts and what works and what
doesn't for various healthcareconditions and diseases.
Dr. Michael Koren (00:46):
Yeah, yeah.
You and I were just chatting aswe were waiting to get on air
about an incident I had thisweekend.
It was not called incident, letme call it an interesting
conversation that I overheard.
And it was a woman who was anintelligent woman talking about
using ivermectin for cancer.
And she quoted, of all people,Mel Gibson, who apparently did a
(01:11):
podcast on Joe Rogan's showabout using ivermectin for
cancer.
And Mel Gibson claimed that hehad three friends, quote
unquote, who had stage fourcancer that were cured with
ivermectin.
And this woman was talkingabout the fact that the Canadian
physician who was prescribingivermectin with healing for
(01:33):
cancer lost his medical licenseand maybe coming to our area and
and she was wondering whetheror not this is something that we
should know about it andpursue.
And so when I heard this, itreally fascinated me, quite
frankly, because she basicallywas saying that she trusted Mel
Gibson more than our system.
And and why is that, Kevin?
(01:55):
Uh why would that be?
Obviously, you know, Mel Gibsonhas had his own well chronicled
problems with a lot of things,including uh maybe not seeing
the truth always very clearly.
But putting that aside, whywould she trust this anecdote?
Why would she even believe MelGibson rather than our system?
So I asked you that question.
What do you think?
Kevin Geddings (02:15):
Part of me thinks it goes back to COVID and
perhaps not the most preciseanswers coming out of the CDC
and others, which it would beimpossible to have precise
answers because we were dealingwith a great unknown, right?
But it did create this societalskepticism, right, of of the
healthcare institutions that wehad always acknowledged as being
(02:36):
mostly right in the past.
Dr. Michael Koren (02:38):
Yeah, yeah, I think that I think COVID did
affect people in that way.
I agree with you.
And I I think it's at thispoint really just a matter of
trust.
Kevin Geddings (02:46):
Right.
Dr. Michael Koren (02:47):
In healthcare, you have to know who
you can trust.
It's so critically important.
And if you don't trust thesystem, then things usually run
awry.
And as the system has gottenmore and more complicated, I
think people are less lesstrusting of the system.
Number one.
And number two, as as it'sgotten more and more complicated
(03:09):
and more and more, quote,computer-based, patients to
explain things as well as weused to.
And I think that also erodestrust in the system.
So, you know, one of the thingsI'm proud of in research is
that we address these issues ona day-to-day basis.
We spend a lot of time talkingwith our patients, explaining
(03:30):
the protocols that we'rerunning, explaining what the
medical questions are, and thenreally every step along the way
have a very nurturing approachto make sure the patient is in
agreement with what we're doing,they give their consent, and
also really understands whatwe're trying to accomplish, as
well as hear what their concernsare, whatever they may be, and
help them navigate thoseconcerns.
(03:50):
So with that in mind, I'm gonnajust throw a challenge out
there.
You know, you and I have talkedabout this problem of
lipoprotein(a).
And that's to remind everybodya form of LDL cholesterol that's
particularly dangerous.
So I'm just gonna throw thischallenge out.
If you know about Lp(a) and youknow that it's nothing for you
(04:11):
to be worried about, that'sgreat.
You don't have to hear reallyhear anymore or do any more
research.
If you don't know what Lp(a)is, that means you don't know
what your level is, you don'tknow what your family levels is.
Why don't you make an effort tofind out what it is?
And if it's super high, theremay be something we can do about
it.
If it's normal, then you feelreassured that you don't have to
worry about this issue.
(04:33):
And then if you find out thatit is high and about twenty
percent of people have highLp(a)'s, then find out what the
options are.
Right now there are no approveddrugs for Lp(a).
There's some drugs that help ita little bit, but we have drugs
in development that are reallysuper effective for reducing
Lp(a) levels by over 95%.
(04:53):
It's really quite remarkable.
And people can get involved inthese programs.
Now, there's no guarantee thatyou're gonna get these
medications immediately.
A lot of the programs we do areplacebo-controlled, and during
the course of the scientificpart of the inquiry, you don't
know exactly on.
But many of these programs alsohave these nice we call open
(05:13):
label extensions where once youfinish the program, there is an
opportunity perhaps to get themedication once it's shown to be
safe and effective.
So, yeah, that's my challengeis to take one little piece of
of medical inquiry in questionand figure out if it affects
you, if it affects your family,and then have a very discernible
plan to address it.
Kevin Geddings (05:34):
And also, Dr.
Koren, when folks engage andthey participate in clinical
trials, I think their level oftrust and confidence in science
and our healthcare systemincreases, right?
Because they get that kind ofone-on-one attention, they get
to be very engaged in what'sgoing on with their healthcare,
and that changes the whole waythey look at things, right?
Dr. Michael Koren (05:53):
I absolutely.
Yeah, trust is is a trickything.
It's very easy to lose it, veryhard to gain it.
Kevin Geddings (06:00):
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Koren (06:01):
And it's only through these experiences
together where people will gaintrust.
Those experiences, of course,could be with a great healthcare
provider.
You know, your your old MarcusWelby doctor who gains your
trust amongst his patients, orit could be through a clinical
research process, or just youknow, an institution that you've
seen over time come up withanswers and and and and address
(06:24):
your concerns.
But unfortunately, I would saymore times than not, our medical
institutions are not doingwhat's necessary to ensure that
trust develops.
And then what happens is thatpeople start to listen to Mel
Gibson.
Kevin Geddings (06:38):
Yeah, right.
Oh man.
Good actor, but I'm not sure Iwould get my healthcare
information from him, right?
Dr. Michael Koren (06:45):
No, I that I would uh I would agree with that
wholeheartedly.
Kevin Geddings (06:50):
That's Dr.
Michael Koren.
Speaking of trust and justgetting a broad swath of health
information that you can trust.
Uh, one other point I want tomake before we lose Dr.
Koren, medevidence.com, greatwebsite they should check out,
right, Doctor?
Dr. Michael Koren (07:05):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And again, this is alsosomething I'm I'm increasingly
proud of because of gettingreally positive feedback about
it.
And again, it's addressing thisissue of developing trust.
We don't know all the answers,Kevin, but we have processes to
learn what the answers are oncepeople give us the question.
And that's what MedEvidenceseeks to do.
(07:25):
You take whatever the questionis, you take whatever the
concern is, and you explain whatwe know about some particular
area of medicine or science.
We explain what we don't knowabout it, and then we explain
the process about how we learnabout that area.
And this could be on a broadbasis in terms of things like
how to treat cholesterolproblems better, as I just
(07:45):
mentioned, and am I a candidatefor this, that, or the other
treatment.
So uh we try to break it downfor people.
We believe it's a verytrustworthy source, again,
because we have typically twodoctors talking about the issue,
and by watching how these twodoctors bounce things off of
each other, you learn atremendous amount through the
eyes of people that understandthese in this area.
(08:07):
So I'd encourage people tocheck it out, see if they like
it, and let us know what youthink.
We're always interested ingetting feedback from people
that either view or listen tothe podcasts.
Kevin Geddings (08:18):
Once again, that website is MedEvidence.com, the
truth behind the data,MedEvidence.com.
Dr.
Koren, thank you very much foryour time, and we'll talk soon,
okay?
Dr. Michael Koren (08:27):
Have a great week, Kevin.
Announcer (08:29):
Thanks for joining the MedEvidence Podcast.
To learn more, head over toMedEvidence.com or subscribe to
our podcast on your favoritepodcast platform.
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