October 8, 2025 • 30 mins
Dr. David Joseph joins Dr. Michael Koren in part 1 of this 2-part series to discuss his journey into the medical world - with myriad tangents and diversions along the way. Dr. Joseph explores his journey from scrappy teen entrepreneur and freshman MIT researcher and inventor to Harvard-trained anesthesiologist. He talks about his non-standard approach to applying to and studying at Harvard Medical School and how his nontraditional approach to life has led him to interesting places.
Be a part of advancing science by participating in clinical research.
Have a question for Dr. Koren? Email him at askDrKoren@MedEvidence.com
Listen on Spotify
Listen on Apple Podcasts
Watch on YouTube
Share with a friend. Rate, Review, and Subscribe to the MedEvidence! podcast to be notified when new episodes are released.
Follow us on Social Media:
Facebook
Instagram
X (Formerly Twitter)
LinkedIn
Want to learn more? Checkout our entire library of podcasts, videos, articles and presentations at www.MedEvidence.com
Music: Storyblocks - Corporate Inspired
Thank you for listening!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Announcer (00:00):
Welcome to MedEvidence, where we help you
navigate the truth behindmedical research with unbiased,
evidence-proven facts, hosted bycardiologist and top medical
researcher, Dr.
Michael Koren.
Dr. Michael Koren (00:11):
Hello, I'm Dr.
Michael Koren, the executiveeditor of MedEvidence! I have to
say that one of the fun thingsabout my job is I get to talk to
old friends and chat aboutthings that amuse us, hopefully
entertain the audience, andhopefully are something that
will create some value for thepeople that are listening into
(00:32):
our conversation.
And I have such an opportunitytoday with my old buddy, Dr.
David Joseph, who's going tojoin us from Martha's Vineyard,
where he's spending this summer.
But while he's spending hissummer in Martha's Vineyard,
believe it or not, he's doingsome incredibly productive
things.
So, Dave, welcome toMedEvidence!, and I can't wait
to share your story with ouraudience.
Dr. David Joseph (00:51):
Great.
I'm glad to be here.
Dr. Michael Koren (00:53):
So you Dave and I go back to medical school,
and we're actually part of he'spart of a series of these
discussions with some of my oldmedical school classmates, who,
by the way, are these incrediblycreative and productive and
wonderful people that havereally fascinating stories.
And Dave and I were at ourmedical school reunion recently,
(01:15):
and we found that a lot ofpeople had some neat stories to
tell.
And part of what we're going todiscuss today is what Dave
disclosed to me at our recent40th medical school reunion for
Harvard Medical School.
So, Dave, um just to start,tell people a little bit about
how you ended up at HarvardMedical School and a little bit
about your background in in umuh as a child in medical school
(01:39):
and ultimately how we got intomedical school, and then uh
we'll talk a little bit moreabout some of our experiences at
Harvard.
Dr. David Joseph (01:45):
So I've been entrepreneurial ever since I was
a little kid.
Um when I was nine, I managedto convince the local newspaper
distributorship to give me apaper root.
Um and then over the next threeyears, I took on four more
paper routes.
So I had five paper routes, Idivided it up into four routes
that made more sense, and hiredfour friends to each take one of
(02:10):
those paper routes, which wasnow, you know, a 1.25 paper
route.
And so I would get fivesalaries, give them each one,
and I would keep one.
And then, you know, I wouldfill in for somebody that was
sick or out of town.
And so the distributorship justabsolutely loved this.
And then by the time I was 16,I had expanded it to eight
(02:32):
routes, divided up between sixemployees, and then I would keep
two salaries.
Well that I was doing a lot ofa lot of other things as well.
Um uh I uh worked as aconsultant in computational
linguistics at the University ofIllinois while I was in high
school.
(02:52):
Um, and that led to a number ofpublications in international
peer-reviewed journals andpatents um on the uh basically
the lexicon of medical languageand uh basically creating a very
crude predecessor toautocorrect.
(03:13):
Um so that may not make me toopopular, but uh but it we it was
good for what it was designedfor.
I was also named as a witness,expert witness in federal court,
um, and a technical consultantto the Federal Aviation
Administration while I was inhigh school.
Um, and that was in a lawsuitum about the impact of the
(03:37):
fluoroscopic inspection devicesat airports on photographic
film.
And it turned out that youknow, that was what I did my,
you know, uh junior year,sophomore year science fair
project on.
And it turned out that this wasthe only um research that
anyone had done that was notsponsored by either a film
(03:59):
company or the um the machinemanufacturers.
So given that it was the onlynon-biased research out there,
the federal court you knowstipulated me as an expert
witness.
This was to show that the themachines that were looking in
your uh luggage were actuallyaffecting your film and other
(04:21):
possessions with within theluggage, is that correct?
Speaker 01 (04:24):
Yeah, just the film, but yes.
And you know, so I you know itlooked at the differences
between um uh film that wasalready exposed and film that
had not yet been exposed, anddifferent, you know, different
speeds of film, whether it was a25 or uh 1600, etc., different
types of film.
Well, and interestingly enough,that research that was
(04:49):
sponsored by a major pharmacompany that just happened to
have their headquarters in myhigh school's district.
So to do this, I needed, youknow, several pieces of
equipment that the high schoolobviously didn't have.
And so I went to this pharmacompany and they agreed to fund
these pieces of equipment aswell as the several hundred
(05:10):
rolls of film that I needed todo the experiment.
Dr. Michael Koren (05:13):
Wow, fascinating.
So cool.
So so you you went to collegeat MIT.
I'll start finishing up yourstory, but go ahead.
Speaker 01 (05:23):
Uh yeah, so I went to went to MIT.
And what was interesting wasthat I had a I'd been an artist
during that time as well.
I was offered a position at theum Art Institute of Chicago's
school, but ended up decidingto go to MIT, figuring it was
easier to be an a scientist anddo art on the side than the
(05:47):
other way around.
So at MIT, I um I thebioengineering unit at Mass
General was looking for a seniorto do their thesis in their
lab.
And so I went to them as afreshman and told them why that
was a really bad idea, becausethis person would, you know,
(06:08):
take a while to get acclimatedto their lab, and then they
would do their project, theyhave senioritis, and they just
wouldn't get much out of them.
Whereas as a freshman, I could,you know, potentially work
there for four years.
And you know, they said, Well,you don't have the engineering
classes yet.
And I'm like, Well, but youknow, what are you looking for?
(06:30):
And they're like, Well, here'sone project that you know that
we would like somebody to takeon, and described it.
And I looked at them like theywere crazy and just said, Well,
why couldn't you do this?
And they looked at each otherand they're like, Okay, and what
what else are you looking for?
And they described somethingelse.
And I'm like, Well, couldn'tyou just do XYZ?
(06:53):
And they're like, Okay, you'rehired.
Um so uh, so during while I wasat MIT, I had a number of um of
inventions, um uh one of whichwas a piezoelectric sorption
detector for anesthetic gases.
(07:13):
So, you know, while you knownowadays most ORs have you know
gas chromatography thatseparates out each component of
the gas, what what we wanted todo was get a portable, rugged,
inexpensive monitor that wouldtell you uh what's called the
MAC, the um maximal alveolarconcentration of anesthetic.
(07:36):
So whatever um whatever gasesthey were using, it would uh it
would detect the total amount ofanesthetic that they were
getting.
Aand I played around with youknow different ways to achieve
this for probably a few weeksand thought I had hit on
(07:58):
something that actually wouldwork, but it worked for
everything except nitrous oxide.
But then when I dug deeper,the value for nitrous oxides MAC
had only been measured oncebefore in 1890 and had never
been repeated.
Dr. Michael Koren (08:18):
Really?
Dr. David Joseph (08:19):
So I repeated that those experiments and
discovered oh, now it fallsright on the line where it
should.
So, you know, I published acorrection to the value of the
MAC for nitrous oxide, and thenthat device worked perfectly
well with everything, you know,everything being right on the
(08:43):
line and totaling up the totalamount of anesthesia exposure.
And so that was sold to a um aSwedish company.
It never really caught on inthe States because you know
these expensive systems werealready in place in a lot of
places, but it was usedextensively throughout Europe
(09:03):
and Africa um and parts of Asia.
So that was the first productthat I worked on with them.
Um, and then worked on uh ifyou remember, you know, the old
um IVEX and IMEDs, the um theinfusion pumps, you know, they
would only alarm once uh an IVhad infiltrated.
(09:26):
And so, you know, there wouldno pressure and uh you know, but
by then the the vein the veinwas blown and you'd have to
start a new IV.
So I invented an inlinepressure sensor that could
detect this before it becameinfiltrated.
So just as the pressure wasrising, indicating an impending
(09:50):
an impending uh
Problem, with an occlusion.
Yeah.
Um and therefore the IV couldjust be adjusted and the IV, you
know, and you wouldn't have toreplace the IV.
Um so that was something thatwas originally sold to um IVAC,
(10:14):
but you know, and is you knowwell off patent now, so it's in
you know all of the infusionpumps now.
And then there was a valve thatI invented for um ventilators
that uh essentially what is nowknown as pressure support
ventilation was what that valvewas doing, even though I had a
(10:34):
different name for it.
Um uh and that was sold toPuritan Bennett.
And then and this was allduring college.
This was all during college.
Uh basically after solving thatfirst problem that they had had
somebody working on for quitesome time, they basically said,
you know, we'll give you um, youknow, free access to the lab
(10:58):
and we'll pay you a 40-hour weeksalary.
You just have to, you know,agree that um that the royalties
are split according to thenormal thing, which was three
33% to the hospital, 33% to thedepartment, and 33% to me or
whoever else was involved in thedevice.
And then another one that I umthat I developed was a combined
(11:24):
adult pediatric ventilator foranesthesia machines.
So that you know, normally youwould have a uh, you know,
ventilator with a large capacityfor adults.
And if you had a child, you'dhave to switch out the
ventilator to one with a verysmall bellows, etc.
And so I designed a bellowsthat was basically a large
(11:45):
bellow with a small bellow ontop of it, and you could just
switch back and forth withouthaving to change the ventilator.
Um I don't remember who thatone was sold to, but one of the
you know, one of the companiesin in that market.
Dr. Michael Koren (12:01):
Wow, well, amazing stuff.
Dr. David Joseph (12:03):
So that was what was going on, you know,
that was what I was doing, andthen um, you know, I had planned
to uh to go into you knowbioengineering, thought a little
bit about medical school, thenum one of the guys that was
working in the lab on his PhDthesis at a dissertation, um had
(12:27):
spent like six years working onthis project because someone
told him that this would be areally you know much needed and
great you know product todesign.
Spent six years developingthis, and then he found out that
the guy who suggested it to himwas the only one who really
cared about this.
(12:48):
And he had pretty much wastedsix years of his life because he
didn't have the ability tojudge what was clinically
significant or not.
Um, and so that had me thinkingabout going to medical school,
but I wasn't sure about that.
And then um there was someonewho was also a mechanical
(13:08):
engineering student a year aheadof me, and she and I used to um
study together, do problem setstogether, etc.
And so she was applying tomedical school, and she was
bummed about you know, um, aboutnot having done as well on her
MCATS as she thought she should.
And so uh I was looking throughthe um the little booklet that
(13:33):
Harvard Medical School puts outyou know with your application,
and I looked through it and Isaid, Well, you know, don't
worry about your MCATs, youdon't have to give it to them.
And she said, Well, of course Ido.
I'm like, No, it's not arequirement.
And she's like, Yes, it is, andI said, Well, it's not a
requirement for admission.
And yeah, she said, Yes, it'sright there in the booklet.
(13:55):
And I'm like, Well, I thinkyou're talking about the the
section at the bottom of page 26where it says the MCATs are an
entrance requirement for HarvardMedical School.
And she's like, Yeah, I'm like,does doesn't mean you can't
apply without them.
And she's like, you're crazy.
And said, Well, why don't youwhy don't you apply to that?
I'm like, Well, I I won't havea degree, I'm just a junior.
(14:17):
And she's like, Well, does itsay that in there?
And I'm flipping through thebooklet.
And I'm like, No, it doesn't.
So I'm like, and so she's like,Well, then you apply.
I'm like, okay.
So yeah, well, I went to themedical school, and if you
remember at that time you had topurchase your application
instead of sending in a fee withthe application, you like
(14:37):
actually paid in advance.
Dr. Michael Koren (14:39):
Right.
Dr. David Joseph (14:40):
Uh, so I got my application and threw it on
my desk and kind of forgot aboutit.
And then, you know, five, sixweeks later, we're studying for
you know two exams and doing aproblem set due the next day.
It's like four in the morning.
And she's like, Did you turnyour application in?
And I'm like, What application?
She said, the one from HarvardMedical School.
(15:00):
I'm like, Oh shoot, no.
She's like, Okay, go back toyour room and get it out.
It's new today.
I'm like, okay.
So I went back to my room andpulled up the, you know, pulled
out the application and started,you know, reading through it
after I filled in thedemographic stuff.
And, you know, the firstquestion, if you remember, was
why you wanted to be a doctor orsomething along those lines.
(15:23):
And I'm like, God, this is nota good time to decide why I want
to be a doctor.
It's 3:30 in the morning.
I'm getting kind of, you know,uh antsy.
And, you know, we've got thisfinal coming up.
So I looked through my box ofessays that I had, and I found
an essay that was just the rightlength and had gotten an A plus
(15:43):
from the teacher.
And it was all about coachinglittle league baseball.
Um, I coached my brother'slittle league baseball team, and
so um I just retyped that intothe space, didn't say anything
about medicine, physician,healthcare, anything whatsoever.
Went on to the next questionwas why you wanted to go to
(16:04):
Harvard.
And I took their their littleparagraph from the um the
booklet and made it all intoalliteration.
So it sounded really silly, butsaid basically the same thing.
If you know, hard Harvard hashardcover handbooks, you know,
blah, blah, blah.
Uh and then and then sent itoff.
(16:27):
And then uh, you know, a fewweeks later, I get a letter from
the admissions office saying,you know, we have no record of
your having taken the MCATs,since the MCATs are a
requirement for Harvard MedicalSchool.
You know, please let us know assoon as possible when you took
the MCATS.
Otherwise, we'll have towithdraw your application.
So I call up and, you know, Ibadger the secretary until she
(16:51):
lets me through to um OglesbyPaul, the dean of admissions.
And he's used to dealing withcalls from frantic applicants.
And so, you know, I explainedto him, Oh, I got this letter,
you know, blah, blah, blah.
He's like, Yes, yes.
Well, just all you need to dois tell us when you took the the
MCAT.
So I said to him, you know, um,the the um MCAT is not an
(17:15):
admission requirement forHarvard Medical School.
And he said, Well, yes, it is.
And I said, No, it's not.
He was like, You're telling me,the director of admissions,
what the admissions requirementsare, and I said, Well, respect,
sir.
I think you're referring to theparagraph at the bottom of page
26 where it says the MCATs arean entrance requirement for
Harvard Medical School.
He said, Yes.
Said, Well, that's asignificant difference.
(17:37):
The MCATs are an entrancerequirement, not an admissions
requirement.
So if you admit me withoutthem, I'll gladly take them for
you over the summer and havethem by the time I enter in
September.
He's like, that's not what itmeans.
I'm like, oh, that's exactlywhat it means.
I've talked to two of mylinguistic pre uh two of my
linguistics professors, and andthey both say that's exactly
(18:00):
what it means.
And he's like, Well, that'scertainly not what we meant.
He said, I'll talk to anothermembers of the committee and
I'll get back to you.
Yeah.
Okay.
So a couple days later I get acall from him and he says, you
know, well, we discussed it onthe committee.
It's not what we meant, but itit but it is what it says.
So, you know, we won't withdrawyour application.
You know, good luck.
(18:21):
So um, anyway, I uh withoutgetting into too much detail on
the tangents involved with it,but um had a great interview,
uh, I believe with the same guythat interviewed you, yeah, and
uh and also the person in ourclass who was the rodeo clown
(18:41):
and um person in our class whoyou know when answered, you
know, why are you applying tomedical school, said, because if
I have I don't have perfectpitch.
So he had you know intervieweda number of of the m more
Dr. Michael Koren (18:56):
Non-standard candidates has that.
Right, right.
So he's looking at at the myapplication and he's like, Oh,
I'm so you know, excited to meetyou.
You know, everybody has theirown theory on what the meaning
was of your essay, because it'sa great essay, but it doesn't
say anything about healthcare,medicine, uh anything related.
(19:17):
So everybody has their owntheory on what it is.
So I'm really excited to hearwhat's the true story.
They said, Well, the truth isit was 4:30 in the morning on
the day that it was due.
I had a final coming up at 8a.m.
I knew I didn't really havetime to write another good
essay, so I just typed that onein.
And his jaw drops and is like,seriously?
(19:39):
I'm like, Yeah.
And it's like, oh, I'm like,but feel free to go with
whatever your theory was.
And you know, I'll confirm thatthat was the right one.
And you know, he laughs and helooks at my um at my uh
transcript and he's like, Sothis is really unusual because
you know, you've got a D inorganic chemistry, a D in
(20:02):
inorganic chemistry, a C minusin physical chemistry.
He's like, you know, do youhave an explanation for this?
I'm like, Oh yeah, absolutely.
You know, I knew that somebodyin those classes had to get the
D, and I just felt I was muchmore emotionally prepared to
handle that trauma than otherpeople.
And he cracked up.
(20:24):
And yeah, he was like, Soreally, why do you want to go to
medical school?
And I said, Oh, so I can marrya nurse.
And he, you know, he he crackedup, and you know, anyway, we
ended up having a three-hourdiscussion that went, you know,
great.
And then at the end, he said,you know, I'm totally behind
(20:46):
you.
I'm gonna be so supportive ofyour application.
He said, But there's a bunch ofold foogies on there that think
you're just making a mockery ofthis.
What can you what can I tellthem on your behalf?
And I thought for a minute andI said, Well, why don't you ask
them whether the purpose of theadmissions committee is to admit
people that are gonna be goodmedical students or admit people
(21:08):
that are gonna be good doctors?
Because I probably won't bethat good a medical student, but
I'll be a hell of a doctor.
He's like, ooh, I like that.
That's a good one.
Yeah.
Dr. David Joseph (21:18):
And then I got the ticket envelope in in
April.
Um, so you know, as I saidbefore, I was a junior at that
time.
So that meant my last year ofmy engineering degree at MIT and
my first year of medical schoolum were the same year.
So I was going back and forthbetween the two campuses.
(21:38):
Um, and often in order to befair to both, just skip both
classes.
Uh and that certainly, youknow, uh, you know, goes along
with what you mentioned, youknow, prior to you know this
podcast about, you know, yeah
Dr. Michael Koren (21:55):
Yeah, I'll mention that in a second.
But that that's so fascinating.
Um but I I love one of thetake-home messages, Dave, which
is that you have to read theprotocol.
That's why I tell our peoplehere in in the research world is
that the nuances of theprotocol are extremely
important, and you clearlyunderstood that.
You were able to articulateyour point of view and actually
(22:17):
make a successful case foryourself at Harvard Medical
School.
So that's brilliant.
I just have to say that.
Absolutely brilliant.
So getting back to the to ourexperience, we we got to know
each other because we wereanatomy lab partners.
And the traditional goodmedical student would be very
prepared going into eachdissection.
(22:39):
They would read the manual,they know exactly what they're
looking for.
And Dave and I were not thebest at that, I think it's fair
to say.
And so we would go there andsort of wing it a little bit and
just kind of look at the bookwhile we're there and not
particularly well prepared.
And uh, I guess um theprofessor kind of picked up on
that a little bit um during thecourse of our our our time in
(23:00):
the anatomy lab.
But you know, we you know westill got something out of it,
of course, and we and uh at theend of the day we we learn what
we need to learn.
But one of the funny thingsabout this is that um I
mentioned to Dave uh uh you knowas a little bit of a as a joke,
quite frankly, that maybe we'renot cut out to be real medical
students, maybe we should bemedical student emeritus status.
(23:21):
And uh uh the funny thing wasthat the next dissecting class,
Dave had a little pin that weput on a lab coach that said,
you know, Dave Joseph and MikeKoren, uh medical student
emeritus.
And I I thought that was great.
I knew we'd be lifelong friendsat that point because uh we had
the same sense of humor.
And uh, you know, I I can saythat although I didn't love
(23:42):
anatomy lab, it did helpconvince me that I would be
better suited to be acardiologist rather than a
surgeon.
And that was a decision I wasmaking, and I know that you have
a spin on that as well.
Dr. David Joseph (23:53):
Yes, I I certainly did not like uh
anatomy at all.
I'm sure I disliked it morethan you did.
But um, you know, I I had aconversation with our anatomy
instructor.
The name of our uh of our classwas Functional Anatomy.
And so, you know, having comefrom MIT, the where the
professors were very open to youknow out-of-the-box thinking
(24:15):
and um things like that, uh Iasked him, why, you know, why do
we have Latin names?
Why are we using Latin names?
Why don't we use, you know,long bone of a leg or you know,
uh fingerbone number one, numbertwo, you know, et cetera.
And he was just he he turnedbright red and was furious that
(24:36):
I would even suggest this.
Dr. Michael Koren (24:38):
Really?
Wow.
Dr. David Joseph (24:40):
Um and then there was another time where he
overheard me making a comment,you know, to you or one of our
other partners, um about youknow, that this anatomy class
was like memorizing a phone bookand not at all functional.
And he, you know, really gotmad at that.
But uh, but yeah, so anatomywas not at all of interest to
(25:02):
me.
Um, and I ended up deciding togo into anesthesia for a number
of reasons, but um, one beingthe real-time physiology.
You see something, you dosomething, you see the effect on
it.
If that didn't work, you trysomething else.
No starting somebody on youknow, on hyper antihypertensive
treatment and then waiting amonth to see if it's working, et
(25:26):
cetera, just the instantgratification of, oh, if I
change this, this will work, um,as well as the the technology
involved, um, and the you know,kind of that ability to work
with technology and continue youknow, inventing things as well.
Dr. Michael Koren (25:43):
So interesting.
So to segue a little bit, um,during our recent medical school
reunion, you told me a storyabout your interaction with the
healthcare system that turnedout to be very, very complex
that I thought was reallyenlightening to me, and it and
you're kindly sharing it withothers now that I think would be
(26:06):
extremely helpful for forpeople to know that it's hard
sometimes for a physician, avery knowledgeable physician, to
navigate the the healthcaresystem, and maybe little tidbits
that will be helpful for thepeople that are listening to
this particular podcast.
And I'll also ask you tocomment on one of the other
things that affected your careerwhen you had an injury when you
(26:27):
uh were relatively early on inyour practice, as I recall, that
really had a huge impact on howyour career developed over the
course of you know the nextdecades.
So uh enlighten us a little bitabout those two scenarios, if
you would.
Dr. David Joseph (26:40):
Okay, sure.
So in terms of the injury, umit was a total ulnar uh nerve
injury at the elbow in my lefthand.
So I could not uh I couldn'tuse a laryngoscope.
I couldn't.
Dr. Michael Koren (26:54):
And you you fell, what happened?
Uh something like you fell atthe beach if I remember
correctly, or what what happenedthat caused the injury in the
first place?
Dr. David Joseph (27:00):
Oh, I I slipped on wet rocks.
Um uh, you know, large wet uhrocks.
It was during the winter, and Ihad, you know, leather shoes
on, and we were walking alongthe the lake in Chicago and
slipped, ended, you know, felland hit my um my funny bone and
you know got that intenseparesthesia.
Um and then uh uh a few weekslater, I was on a different
(27:26):
small island in the Atlantic,and I went and tried to take the
milk carton out of therefrigerator, and it just
slipped through my hands.
I couldn't hold it.
And then I started doing othertests and realizing that my
ulnar nerve was shot.
Um, and so flew back toArizona, had um uh EMGs done,
(27:49):
which showed a total block atthe um at the elbow, had
surgery, had an exploratory umepineurectomy that released the
sheath, and there was uh youknow a lot of clotted blood in
the in the in the sheath of thenerve.
So essentially pressure builtup and it was an anoxic injury
(28:10):
to the nerve.
Um so you know, at first I, youknow, they said this may
recover, it may take up to ayear to recover, it may not
recover.
Um, so during that phase, Iactually um studied mediation
and negotiation and started up acompany that was doing um
(28:30):
healthcare mediation andnegotiation.
Um and it became successfulvery quickly.
Um, and so I uh I was mediatingum healthcare disputes, some of
them being um uh turf warsbetween, say, the orthopedic
(28:50):
spine surgeons and the uhneurosurgical spine surgeons and
things like that in hospitals,um, as well as helping groups
not uh navigate the managed careworld that was just sort of
coming into play then andhelping them uh negotiate those
contracts, ended up um sellingthat company to um an
(29:12):
international, very largeinternational mediation
negotiation firm that had nohealthcare presence and stayed
on as their director of theirhealthcare division uh for two
years.
And then at that time, thecompany that I had been working
for in Arizona as a as aclinician, um you know, had let
(29:33):
their CEO go and they brought meback to be their CEO, you know,
armed with all this newknowledge and skill in
negotiation.
So um, you know, since then,you know, I've been the their
CEO for three years while alsopursuing a lot of other careers
in um yeah, in medicine andother uh and other functions as
(29:57):
well, serving on you know boardsof about 50 companies ranging
from startups to uh nonprofitsto Fortune 500 companies and
doing consulting work, etcetera, founding some companies,
et cetera.
Dr. Michael Koren (30:12):
Yeah, incredible.
Absolutely incredible.
So, Dave, we're gonna take aquick break here.
And um just it's gonna take mea few minutes to process these
incredible stories.
So thank you for sharing them.
But we're gonna get right backto our second session with Dr.
David Joseph in just a moment.
Announcer (30:30):
To continue watching this podcast episode, head over
to MedEvidence.com.
Welcome to MedEvidence, where we help you
navigate the truth behindmedical research with unbiased,
evidence-proven facts, hosted bycardiologist and top medical
researcher, Dr.
Michael Koren.
Dr. Michael Koren (00:11):
Hello, I'm Dr.
Michael Koren, the executiveeditor of MedEvidence! I have to
say that one of the fun thingsabout my job is I get to talk to
old friends and chat aboutthings that amuse us, hopefully
entertain the audience, andhopefully are something that
will create some value for thepeople that are listening into
(00:32):
our conversation.
And I have such an opportunitytoday with my old buddy, Dr.
David Joseph, who's going tojoin us from Martha's Vineyard,
where he's spending this summer.
But while he's spending hissummer in Martha's Vineyard,
believe it or not, he's doingsome incredibly productive
things.
So, Dave, welcome toMedEvidence!, and I can't wait
to share your story with ouraudience.
Dr. David Joseph (00:51):
Great.
I'm glad to be here.
Dr. Michael Koren (00:53):
So you Dave and I go back to medical school,
and we're actually part of he'spart of a series of these
discussions with some of my oldmedical school classmates, who,
by the way, are these incrediblycreative and productive and
wonderful people that havereally fascinating stories.
And Dave and I were at ourmedical school reunion recently,
(01:15):
and we found that a lot ofpeople had some neat stories to
tell.
And part of what we're going todiscuss today is what Dave
disclosed to me at our recent40th medical school reunion for
Harvard Medical School.
So, Dave, um just to start,tell people a little bit about
how you ended up at HarvardMedical School and a little bit
about your background in in umuh as a child in medical school
(01:39):
and ultimately how we got intomedical school, and then uh
we'll talk a little bit moreabout some of our experiences at
Harvard.
Dr. David Joseph (01:45):
So I've been entrepreneurial ever since I was
a little kid.
Um when I was nine, I managedto convince the local newspaper
distributorship to give me apaper root.
Um and then over the next threeyears, I took on four more
paper routes.
So I had five paper routes, Idivided it up into four routes
that made more sense, and hiredfour friends to each take one of
(02:10):
those paper routes, which wasnow, you know, a 1.25 paper
route.
And so I would get fivesalaries, give them each one,
and I would keep one.
And then, you know, I wouldfill in for somebody that was
sick or out of town.
And so the distributorship justabsolutely loved this.
And then by the time I was 16,I had expanded it to eight
(02:32):
routes, divided up between sixemployees, and then I would keep
two salaries.
Well that I was doing a lot ofa lot of other things as well.
Um uh I uh worked as aconsultant in computational
linguistics at the University ofIllinois while I was in high
school.
(02:52):
Um, and that led to a number ofpublications in international
peer-reviewed journals andpatents um on the uh basically
the lexicon of medical languageand uh basically creating a very
crude predecessor toautocorrect.
(03:13):
Um so that may not make me toopopular, but uh but it we it was
good for what it was designedfor.
I was also named as a witness,expert witness in federal court,
um, and a technical consultantto the Federal Aviation
Administration while I was inhigh school.
Um, and that was in a lawsuitum about the impact of the
(03:37):
fluoroscopic inspection devicesat airports on photographic
film.
And it turned out that youknow, that was what I did my,
you know, uh junior year,sophomore year science fair
project on.
And it turned out that this wasthe only um research that
anyone had done that was notsponsored by either a film
(03:59):
company or the um the machinemanufacturers.
So given that it was the onlynon-biased research out there,
the federal court you knowstipulated me as an expert
witness.
This was to show that the themachines that were looking in
your uh luggage were actuallyaffecting your film and other
(04:21):
possessions with within theluggage, is that correct?
Speaker 01 (04:24):
Yeah, just the film, but yes.
And you know, so I you know itlooked at the differences
between um uh film that wasalready exposed and film that
had not yet been exposed, anddifferent, you know, different
speeds of film, whether it was a25 or uh 1600, etc., different
types of film.
Well, and interestingly enough,that research that was
(04:49):
sponsored by a major pharmacompany that just happened to
have their headquarters in myhigh school's district.
So to do this, I needed, youknow, several pieces of
equipment that the high schoolobviously didn't have.
And so I went to this pharmacompany and they agreed to fund
these pieces of equipment aswell as the several hundred
(05:10):
rolls of film that I needed todo the experiment.
Dr. Michael Koren (05:13):
Wow, fascinating.
So cool.
So so you you went to collegeat MIT.
I'll start finishing up yourstory, but go ahead.
Speaker 01 (05:23):
Uh yeah, so I went to went to MIT.
And what was interesting wasthat I had a I'd been an artist
during that time as well.
I was offered a position at theum Art Institute of Chicago's
school, but ended up decidingto go to MIT, figuring it was
easier to be an a scientist anddo art on the side than the
(05:47):
other way around.
So at MIT, I um I thebioengineering unit at Mass
General was looking for a seniorto do their thesis in their
lab.
And so I went to them as afreshman and told them why that
was a really bad idea, becausethis person would, you know,
(06:08):
take a while to get acclimatedto their lab, and then they
would do their project, theyhave senioritis, and they just
wouldn't get much out of them.
Whereas as a freshman, I could,you know, potentially work
there for four years.
And you know, they said, Well,you don't have the engineering
classes yet.
And I'm like, Well, but youknow, what are you looking for?
(06:30):
And they're like, Well, here'sone project that you know that
we would like somebody to takeon, and described it.
And I looked at them like theywere crazy and just said, Well,
why couldn't you do this?
And they looked at each otherand they're like, Okay, and what
what else are you looking for?
And they described somethingelse.
And I'm like, Well, couldn'tyou just do XYZ?
(06:53):
And they're like, Okay, you'rehired.
Um so uh, so during while I wasat MIT, I had a number of um of
inventions, um uh one of whichwas a piezoelectric sorption
detector for anesthetic gases.
(07:13):
So, you know, while you knownowadays most ORs have you know
gas chromatography thatseparates out each component of
the gas, what what we wanted todo was get a portable, rugged,
inexpensive monitor that wouldtell you uh what's called the
MAC, the um maximal alveolarconcentration of anesthetic.
(07:36):
So whatever um whatever gasesthey were using, it would uh it
would detect the total amount ofanesthetic that they were
getting.
Aand I played around with youknow different ways to achieve
this for probably a few weeksand thought I had hit on
(07:58):
something that actually wouldwork, but it worked for
everything except nitrous oxide.
But then when I dug deeper,the value for nitrous oxides MAC
had only been measured oncebefore in 1890 and had never
been repeated.
Dr. Michael Koren (08:18):
Really?
Dr. David Joseph (08:19):
So I repeated that those experiments and
discovered oh, now it fallsright on the line where it
should.
So, you know, I published acorrection to the value of the
MAC for nitrous oxide, and thenthat device worked perfectly
well with everything, you know,everything being right on the
(08:43):
line and totaling up the totalamount of anesthesia exposure.
And so that was sold to a um aSwedish company.
It never really caught on inthe States because you know
these expensive systems werealready in place in a lot of
places, but it was usedextensively throughout Europe
(09:03):
and Africa um and parts of Asia.
So that was the first productthat I worked on with them.
Um, and then worked on uh ifyou remember, you know, the old
um IVEX and IMEDs, the um theinfusion pumps, you know, they
would only alarm once uh an IVhad infiltrated.
(09:26):
And so, you know, there wouldno pressure and uh you know, but
by then the the vein the veinwas blown and you'd have to
start a new IV.
So I invented an inlinepressure sensor that could
detect this before it becameinfiltrated.
So just as the pressure wasrising, indicating an impending
(09:50):
an impending uh
Problem, with an occlusion.
Yeah.
Um and therefore the IV couldjust be adjusted and the IV, you
know, and you wouldn't have toreplace the IV.
Um so that was something thatwas originally sold to um IVAC,
(10:14):
but you know, and is you knowwell off patent now, so it's in
you know all of the infusionpumps now.
And then there was a valve thatI invented for um ventilators
that uh essentially what is nowknown as pressure support
ventilation was what that valvewas doing, even though I had a
(10:34):
different name for it.
Um uh and that was sold toPuritan Bennett.
And then and this was allduring college.
This was all during college.
Uh basically after solving thatfirst problem that they had had
somebody working on for quitesome time, they basically said,
you know, we'll give you um, youknow, free access to the lab
(10:58):
and we'll pay you a 40-hour weeksalary.
You just have to, you know,agree that um that the royalties
are split according to thenormal thing, which was three
33% to the hospital, 33% to thedepartment, and 33% to me or
whoever else was involved in thedevice.
And then another one that I umthat I developed was a combined
(11:24):
adult pediatric ventilator foranesthesia machines.
So that you know, normally youwould have a uh, you know,
ventilator with a large capacityfor adults.
And if you had a child, you'dhave to switch out the
ventilator to one with a verysmall bellows, etc.
And so I designed a bellowsthat was basically a large
(11:45):
bellow with a small bellow ontop of it, and you could just
switch back and forth withouthaving to change the ventilator.
Um I don't remember who thatone was sold to, but one of the
you know, one of the companiesin in that market.
Dr. Michael Koren (12:01):
Wow, well, amazing stuff.
Dr. David Joseph (12:03):
So that was what was going on, you know,
that was what I was doing, andthen um, you know, I had planned
to uh to go into you knowbioengineering, thought a little
bit about medical school, thenum one of the guys that was
working in the lab on his PhDthesis at a dissertation, um had
(12:27):
spent like six years working onthis project because someone
told him that this would be areally you know much needed and
great you know product todesign.
Spent six years developingthis, and then he found out that
the guy who suggested it to himwas the only one who really
cared about this.
(12:48):
And he had pretty much wastedsix years of his life because he
didn't have the ability tojudge what was clinically
significant or not.
Um, and so that had me thinkingabout going to medical school,
but I wasn't sure about that.
And then um there was someonewho was also a mechanical
(13:08):
engineering student a year aheadof me, and she and I used to um
study together, do problem setstogether, etc.
And so she was applying tomedical school, and she was
bummed about you know, um, aboutnot having done as well on her
MCATS as she thought she should.
And so uh I was looking throughthe um the little booklet that
(13:33):
Harvard Medical School puts outyou know with your application,
and I looked through it and Isaid, Well, you know, don't
worry about your MCATs, youdon't have to give it to them.
And she said, Well, of course Ido.
I'm like, No, it's not arequirement.
And she's like, Yes, it is, andI said, Well, it's not a
requirement for admission.
And yeah, she said, Yes, it'sright there in the booklet.
(13:55):
And I'm like, Well, I thinkyou're talking about the the
section at the bottom of page 26where it says the MCATs are an
entrance requirement for HarvardMedical School.
And she's like, Yeah, I'm like,does doesn't mean you can't
apply without them.
And she's like, you're crazy.
And said, Well, why don't youwhy don't you apply to that?
I'm like, Well, I I won't havea degree, I'm just a junior.
(14:17):
And she's like, Well, does itsay that in there?
And I'm flipping through thebooklet.
And I'm like, No, it doesn't.
So I'm like, and so she's like,Well, then you apply.
I'm like, okay.
So yeah, well, I went to themedical school, and if you
remember at that time you had topurchase your application
instead of sending in a fee withthe application, you like
(14:37):
actually paid in advance.
Dr. Michael Koren (14:39):
Right.
Dr. David Joseph (14:40):
Uh, so I got my application and threw it on
my desk and kind of forgot aboutit.
And then, you know, five, sixweeks later, we're studying for
you know two exams and doing aproblem set due the next day.
It's like four in the morning.
And she's like, Did you turnyour application in?
And I'm like, What application?
She said, the one from HarvardMedical School.
(15:00):
I'm like, Oh shoot, no.
She's like, Okay, go back toyour room and get it out.
It's new today.
I'm like, okay.
So I went back to my room andpulled up the, you know, pulled
out the application and started,you know, reading through it
after I filled in thedemographic stuff.
And, you know, the firstquestion, if you remember, was
why you wanted to be a doctor orsomething along those lines.
(15:23):
And I'm like, God, this is nota good time to decide why I want
to be a doctor.
It's 3:30 in the morning.
I'm getting kind of, you know,uh antsy.
And, you know, we've got thisfinal coming up.
So I looked through my box ofessays that I had, and I found
an essay that was just the rightlength and had gotten an A plus
(15:43):
from the teacher.
And it was all about coachinglittle league baseball.
Um, I coached my brother'slittle league baseball team, and
so um I just retyped that intothe space, didn't say anything
about medicine, physician,healthcare, anything whatsoever.
Went on to the next questionwas why you wanted to go to
(16:04):
Harvard.
And I took their their littleparagraph from the um the
booklet and made it all intoalliteration.
So it sounded really silly, butsaid basically the same thing.
If you know, hard Harvard hashardcover handbooks, you know,
blah, blah, blah.
Uh and then and then sent itoff.
(16:27):
And then uh, you know, a fewweeks later, I get a letter from
the admissions office saying,you know, we have no record of
your having taken the MCATs,since the MCATs are a
requirement for Harvard MedicalSchool.
You know, please let us know assoon as possible when you took
the MCATS.
Otherwise, we'll have towithdraw your application.
So I call up and, you know, Ibadger the secretary until she
(16:51):
lets me through to um OglesbyPaul, the dean of admissions.
And he's used to dealing withcalls from frantic applicants.
And so, you know, I explainedto him, Oh, I got this letter,
you know, blah, blah, blah.
He's like, Yes, yes.
Well, just all you need to dois tell us when you took the the
MCAT.
So I said to him, you know, um,the the um MCAT is not an
(17:15):
admission requirement forHarvard Medical School.
And he said, Well, yes, it is.
And I said, No, it's not.
He was like, You're telling me,the director of admissions,
what the admissions requirementsare, and I said, Well, respect,
sir.
I think you're referring to theparagraph at the bottom of page
26 where it says the MCATs arean entrance requirement for
Harvard Medical School.
He said, Yes.
Said, Well, that's asignificant difference.
(17:37):
The MCATs are an entrancerequirement, not an admissions
requirement.
So if you admit me withoutthem, I'll gladly take them for
you over the summer and havethem by the time I enter in
September.
He's like, that's not what itmeans.
I'm like, oh, that's exactlywhat it means.
I've talked to two of mylinguistic pre uh two of my
linguistics professors, and andthey both say that's exactly
(18:00):
what it means.
And he's like, Well, that'scertainly not what we meant.
He said, I'll talk to anothermembers of the committee and
I'll get back to you.
Yeah.
Okay.
So a couple days later I get acall from him and he says, you
know, well, we discussed it onthe committee.
It's not what we meant, but itit but it is what it says.
So, you know, we won't withdrawyour application.
You know, good luck.
(18:21):
So um, anyway, I uh withoutgetting into too much detail on
the tangents involved with it,but um had a great interview,
uh, I believe with the same guythat interviewed you, yeah, and
uh and also the person in ourclass who was the rodeo clown
(18:41):
and um person in our class whoyou know when answered, you
know, why are you applying tomedical school, said, because if
I have I don't have perfectpitch.
So he had you know intervieweda number of of the m more
Dr. Michael Koren (18:56):
Non-standard candidates has that.
Right, right.
So he's looking at at the myapplication and he's like, Oh,
I'm so you know, excited to meetyou.
You know, everybody has theirown theory on what the meaning
was of your essay, because it'sa great essay, but it doesn't
say anything about healthcare,medicine, uh anything related.
(19:17):
So everybody has their owntheory on what it is.
So I'm really excited to hearwhat's the true story.
They said, Well, the truth isit was 4:30 in the morning on
the day that it was due.
I had a final coming up at 8a.m.
I knew I didn't really havetime to write another good
essay, so I just typed that onein.
And his jaw drops and is like,seriously?
(19:39):
I'm like, Yeah.
And it's like, oh, I'm like,but feel free to go with
whatever your theory was.
And you know, I'll confirm thatthat was the right one.
And you know, he laughs and helooks at my um at my uh
transcript and he's like, Sothis is really unusual because
you know, you've got a D inorganic chemistry, a D in
(20:02):
inorganic chemistry, a C minusin physical chemistry.
He's like, you know, do youhave an explanation for this?
I'm like, Oh yeah, absolutely.
You know, I knew that somebodyin those classes had to get the
D, and I just felt I was muchmore emotionally prepared to
handle that trauma than otherpeople.
And he cracked up.
(20:24):
And yeah, he was like, Soreally, why do you want to go to
medical school?
And I said, Oh, so I can marrya nurse.
And he, you know, he he crackedup, and you know, anyway, we
ended up having a three-hourdiscussion that went, you know,
great.
And then at the end, he said,you know, I'm totally behind
(20:46):
you.
I'm gonna be so supportive ofyour application.
He said, But there's a bunch ofold foogies on there that think
you're just making a mockery ofthis.
What can you what can I tellthem on your behalf?
And I thought for a minute andI said, Well, why don't you ask
them whether the purpose of theadmissions committee is to admit
people that are gonna be goodmedical students or admit people
(21:08):
that are gonna be good doctors?
Because I probably won't bethat good a medical student, but
I'll be a hell of a doctor.
He's like, ooh, I like that.
That's a good one.
Yeah.
Dr. David Joseph (21:18):
And then I got the ticket envelope in in
April.
Um, so you know, as I saidbefore, I was a junior at that
time.
So that meant my last year ofmy engineering degree at MIT and
my first year of medical schoolum were the same year.
So I was going back and forthbetween the two campuses.
(21:38):
Um, and often in order to befair to both, just skip both
classes.
Uh and that certainly, youknow, uh, you know, goes along
with what you mentioned, youknow, prior to you know this
podcast about, you know, yeah
Dr. Michael Koren (21:55):
Yeah, I'll mention that in a second.
But that that's so fascinating.
Um but I I love one of thetake-home messages, Dave, which
is that you have to read theprotocol.
That's why I tell our peoplehere in in the research world is
that the nuances of theprotocol are extremely
important, and you clearlyunderstood that.
You were able to articulateyour point of view and actually
(22:17):
make a successful case foryourself at Harvard Medical
School.
So that's brilliant.
I just have to say that.
Absolutely brilliant.
So getting back to the to ourexperience, we we got to know
each other because we wereanatomy lab partners.
And the traditional goodmedical student would be very
prepared going into eachdissection.
(22:39):
They would read the manual,they know exactly what they're
looking for.
And Dave and I were not thebest at that, I think it's fair
to say.
And so we would go there andsort of wing it a little bit and
just kind of look at the bookwhile we're there and not
particularly well prepared.
And uh, I guess um theprofessor kind of picked up on
that a little bit um during thecourse of our our our time in
(23:00):
the anatomy lab.
But you know, we you know westill got something out of it,
of course, and we and uh at theend of the day we we learn what
we need to learn.
But one of the funny thingsabout this is that um I
mentioned to Dave uh uh you knowas a little bit of a as a joke,
quite frankly, that maybe we'renot cut out to be real medical
students, maybe we should bemedical student emeritus status.
(23:21):
And uh uh the funny thing wasthat the next dissecting class,
Dave had a little pin that weput on a lab coach that said,
you know, Dave Joseph and MikeKoren, uh medical student
emeritus.
And I I thought that was great.
I knew we'd be lifelong friendsat that point because uh we had
the same sense of humor.
And uh, you know, I I can saythat although I didn't love
(23:42):
anatomy lab, it did helpconvince me that I would be
better suited to be acardiologist rather than a
surgeon.
And that was a decision I wasmaking, and I know that you have
a spin on that as well.
Dr. David Joseph (23:53):
Yes, I I certainly did not like uh
anatomy at all.
I'm sure I disliked it morethan you did.
But um, you know, I I had aconversation with our anatomy
instructor.
The name of our uh of our classwas Functional Anatomy.
And so, you know, having comefrom MIT, the where the
professors were very open to youknow out-of-the-box thinking
(24:15):
and um things like that, uh Iasked him, why, you know, why do
we have Latin names?
Why are we using Latin names?
Why don't we use, you know,long bone of a leg or you know,
uh fingerbone number one, numbertwo, you know, et cetera.
And he was just he he turnedbright red and was furious that
(24:36):
I would even suggest this.
Dr. Michael Koren (24:38):
Really?
Wow.
Dr. David Joseph (24:40):
Um and then there was another time where he
overheard me making a comment,you know, to you or one of our
other partners, um about youknow, that this anatomy class
was like memorizing a phone bookand not at all functional.
And he, you know, really gotmad at that.
But uh, but yeah, so anatomywas not at all of interest to
(25:02):
me.
Um, and I ended up deciding togo into anesthesia for a number
of reasons, but um, one beingthe real-time physiology.
You see something, you dosomething, you see the effect on
it.
If that didn't work, you trysomething else.
No starting somebody on youknow, on hyper antihypertensive
treatment and then waiting amonth to see if it's working, et
(25:26):
cetera, just the instantgratification of, oh, if I
change this, this will work, um,as well as the the technology
involved, um, and the you know,kind of that ability to work
with technology and continue youknow, inventing things as well.
Dr. Michael Koren (25:43):
So interesting.
So to segue a little bit, um,during our recent medical school
reunion, you told me a storyabout your interaction with the
healthcare system that turnedout to be very, very complex
that I thought was reallyenlightening to me, and it and
you're kindly sharing it withothers now that I think would be
(26:06):
extremely helpful for forpeople to know that it's hard
sometimes for a physician, avery knowledgeable physician, to
navigate the the healthcaresystem, and maybe little tidbits
that will be helpful for thepeople that are listening to
this particular podcast.
And I'll also ask you tocomment on one of the other
things that affected your careerwhen you had an injury when you
(26:27):
uh were relatively early on inyour practice, as I recall, that
really had a huge impact on howyour career developed over the
course of you know the nextdecades.
So uh enlighten us a little bitabout those two scenarios, if
you would.
Dr. David Joseph (26:40):
Okay, sure.
So in terms of the injury, umit was a total ulnar uh nerve
injury at the elbow in my lefthand.
So I could not uh I couldn'tuse a laryngoscope.
I couldn't.
Dr. Michael Koren (26:54):
And you you fell, what happened?
Uh something like you fell atthe beach if I remember
correctly, or what what happenedthat caused the injury in the
first place?
Dr. David Joseph (27:00):
Oh, I I slipped on wet rocks.
Um uh, you know, large wet uhrocks.
It was during the winter, and Ihad, you know, leather shoes
on, and we were walking alongthe the lake in Chicago and
slipped, ended, you know, felland hit my um my funny bone and
you know got that intenseparesthesia.
Um and then uh uh a few weekslater, I was on a different
(27:26):
small island in the Atlantic,and I went and tried to take the
milk carton out of therefrigerator, and it just
slipped through my hands.
I couldn't hold it.
And then I started doing othertests and realizing that my
ulnar nerve was shot.
Um, and so flew back toArizona, had um uh EMGs done,
(27:49):
which showed a total block atthe um at the elbow, had
surgery, had an exploratory umepineurectomy that released the
sheath, and there was uh youknow a lot of clotted blood in
the in the in the sheath of thenerve.
So essentially pressure builtup and it was an anoxic injury
(28:10):
to the nerve.
Um so you know, at first I, youknow, they said this may
recover, it may take up to ayear to recover, it may not
recover.
Um, so during that phase, Iactually um studied mediation
and negotiation and started up acompany that was doing um
(28:30):
healthcare mediation andnegotiation.
Um and it became successfulvery quickly.
Um, and so I uh I was mediatingum healthcare disputes, some of
them being um uh turf warsbetween, say, the orthopedic
(28:50):
spine surgeons and the uhneurosurgical spine surgeons and
things like that in hospitals,um, as well as helping groups
not uh navigate the managed careworld that was just sort of
coming into play then andhelping them uh negotiate those
contracts, ended up um sellingthat company to um an
(29:12):
international, very largeinternational mediation
negotiation firm that had nohealthcare presence and stayed
on as their director of theirhealthcare division uh for two
years.
And then at that time, thecompany that I had been working
for in Arizona as a as aclinician, um you know, had let
(29:33):
their CEO go and they brought meback to be their CEO, you know,
armed with all this newknowledge and skill in
negotiation.
So um, you know, since then,you know, I've been the their
CEO for three years while alsopursuing a lot of other careers
in um yeah, in medicine andother uh and other functions as
(29:57):
well, serving on you know boardsof about 50 companies ranging
from startups to uh nonprofitsto Fortune 500 companies and
doing consulting work, etcetera, founding some companies,
et cetera.
Dr. Michael Koren (30:12):
Yeah, incredible.
Absolutely incredible.
So, Dave, we're gonna take aquick break here.
And um just it's gonna take mea few minutes to process these
incredible stories.
So thank you for sharing them.
But we're gonna get right backto our second session with Dr.
David Joseph in just a moment.
Announcer (30:30):
To continue watching this podcast episode, head over
to MedEvidence.com.
Popular Podcasts
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com