October 10, 2025 • 25 mins
Dr. David Joseph rejoins Dr. Michael Koren for part 2 of his journey from reluctant med student to medical consultant, inventor, and artist. In this section, Dr. Joseph talks about the difficulties in navigating our current, disjointed, and often impersonal medical system. He recounts having to go through seven different consultations with physicians before anyone physically examined him and how persistence is key in our medical system. They finish up by talking about the doctor's artwork, which can be found at https://www.davidjosephart.com/ and on Instagram at @artbydavidjoseph
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Announcement (00:00):
Welcome to MedEvidence!, where we help you
navigate the truth behindmedical research with unbiased,
evidence-proven facts, hosted bycardiologist and top medical
researcher, Dr.
Michael Koren.
Dr. Michael Koren (00:11):
Hello, I'm Dr.
Michael Koren, the executiveeditor of MedEvidence! And I'm
having an absolutely fascinatingconversation with my former
classmate, Dr.
David Joseph.
And he's had just thisspectacular career.
So interesting.
And he's been walking throughsome of these many adventures
that he's had from the time ofhis childhood through his
(00:31):
graduation from Harvard MedicalSchool to becoming a serial
entrepreneur.
So again, Dave, thanks forbeing part of the MedEvidence
family.
And we you just got to keep ongoing.
You know, this stuff has beenamazing.
And uh I've heard your storiesbefore, but every time I listen,
I hear something new, andthere's always a little bit of
nuance.
So you were just telling uswhen we dropped off about an
(00:52):
unfortunate situation that youmade the most of.
So you you fell, you injuredyour own nerve, which prevented
you from doing your routine workas an anesthesiologist, but you
used it as an opportunity tolearn mediation and to learn how
to get much more involved incorporate affairs, and you kind
of ran with that as a career.
So that's what we were justtalking about when we left off.
(01:15):
So uh just give us a little bitmore information about that.
And then I'm really fascinatedto hear about your personal
story with the healthcaresystem, because that to me is so
insightful in terms of howcomplex our healthcare system is
and what you need to do tosucceed when you negotiate it,
when you negotiate with thathealthcare system.
So, Dave, go ahead, just giveus uh a little bit more flavor
(01:37):
on your post-accident careerthat led you from uh going from
anesthesiology to moreadministrative elements of
medicine and ultimatelyconsulting.
Dr. David Joseph (01:48):
Uh well, and then what I really spent most of
my career on was um inventingmedical devices.
So I was working as this as theCEO of that company, um, but
also working with another uh youknow other groups as you know a
medical device inventor.
Um I had banded with uh someother physician engineers uh
(02:14):
physician inventors, and youknow, we started a rapid
prototyping lab.
Um, and you know, our firstproduct was sold to Johnson
& Johnson, who also purchased auh minority interest in the lab.
Um we then transitioned intobuilding a multi-specialty
clinic that gave uh tremendousadvantage to the various um solo
(02:38):
practitioners in the communityby joining and and opening up
the ability to have revenuesfrom MRI and labs and things
that they couldn't do as solopractitioners.
Um and then we we purchased ahospital out of bankruptcy,
renovated it, um, and put thatinto you know into a system so
(02:58):
that we could bill better umwith the hospital as being part
of our system.
Um we then ended up uh buildinguh another hospital.
We sold the land under the umthe clinic um and the hospital
to Ariot um and then did a 1091exchange um purchasing the
(03:21):
largest uh VA clinic in thesoutheast uh side of Atlanta,
um, giving us a you know a greatincome stream on that uh on
that what was otherwise just theland we were sitting on.
Dr. Michael Koren (03:34):
Nice.
When you say we, uh can you saythe name of the company, who
the we is?
Dr. David Joseph (03:39):
Yeah, it was Scott Laboratories.
Dr. Michael Koren (03:41):
Okay.
Dr. David Joseph (03:43):
Um and so uh and then Grace Grace Clinic and
Grace Hospital were the namesof the of what we had built.
Dr. Michael Koren (03:52):
Um and so then we ended up And where where
was that located for the peoplelistening in?
Where's Grace Hospital?
Dr. David Joseph (03:58):
In Texas.
Dr. Michael Koren (03:59):
Got it.
Okay.
Dr. David Joseph (04:00):
So um we then transitioned, and our latest uh
venture has been in bariatricsum and looking for solutions
there and have a product thatyou know we're that we're
working on right now.
Um we've you know transitionedand moved the lab to um to
Puerto Rico.
(04:21):
Um and our you know, and thatthat research is still underway
under a um under a subsidiary.
And then there was anothercompany that had a uh
revolutionary device for umdoing cardiac spec, which
allowed it to be done in twominutes and in an upright
position, um, some somewhat likea dental chair, uh rather than
(04:43):
laying flat on your back, etcetera.
Um, and a number of other uhvarious uh devices and things
that I worked on with varyinggroups of people, you know, over
the years.
Dr. Michael Koren (04:56):
Beautiful.
Absolutely beautiful.
So let's transition to yourrecent personal journey through
the US healthcare system.
I found that so fascinating.
And um I think there'll beimportant insights for the
people who are listening in toour conversation.
Dr. David Joseph (05:13):
Sure.
Um so uh I had a situation.
I um first I tore my uh mymeniscus in my right knee.
Um and while I was uh you knowusing a cane and in a brace and
having to sort of twist my wayoff the couch by you know
(05:35):
pushing on the cane to get up,um apparently uh that you know
pressure caused me to hurriateuh um a disc.
So I woke up one morning and Iwas at the Liberty Hotel, which
is you know in Boston,basically, you know, in the
parking lot of Mass General.
(05:56):
And I woke up and I couldn'tmove.
I mean, the pain was so intensethat I literally had to get an
ambulance to go from the LibertyHotel in the parking lot of
Mass General to the emergencyroom.
Oh my god.
And uh one thing that happenedwhile I was there is that uh I
never saw the attendingphysician.
(06:18):
I had a um uh, I forget whetherit was a PA or a nurse
practitioner, but who claimed tobe the attending physician,
despite wearing a badge thatshowed what their position was.
Um and you know, I was despitehaving trained there, etc., I
(06:39):
really was not treated very wellthere.
Um eventually I, you know, theyput me on some meds, I I left.
Um, and then uh the pain, youknow, essentially was not
resolving.
Um I had an MRI, and the MRIwas read as being, you know,
normal, um, other than some, youknow, old congenital uh spinal
(07:02):
stenosis.
Um and you know, I had an and ayou know, after a few months,
it was the pain was stillterrible.
Um, I had another MRI.
It was also read as beingnormal.
Dr. Michael Koren (07:17):
And the also at Mass General or at a
different place, the second MRI.
Dr. David Joseph (07:21):
The second MRI was at uh Martha's Vineyard
Hospital.
Um and so uh, you know, thepain was just classic for a
herniated disc.
I mean, it, you know, textbook.
Uh so I couldn't believe thatthere was nothing there.
And so one of our um medicalschool classmates, uh, you know,
(07:44):
who was good friends of both ofus, um, had you know, his
practice was uh reading spineMRIs.
So, you know, I sent him a discof it, and he came back, you
know, within minutes saying, Oh,you've got a uh you've got a
far lateral uh herniated disc,an L34.
(08:05):
Um and he's like, you know, Isaid, Well, how could they miss
that?
And he said, Well, actually thefar lateral herniations are are
missed fairly often.
Um he's like, because this isall I do, I look for it, you
know, on every on every film.
Um and so now at least I had aa diagnosis, um, and I would
(08:29):
start to get better, and then itwould suddenly get worse again.
Start to get better, suddenlyworse.
Well, so I went through a yearof conservative treatment, um,
which basically was medications.
Um they put me on gabapentin,and I had a um a language issue
(08:50):
as a result of that.
I would sort of I would have umpause vocalizations, I would be
talking, and without evenrealizing I was doing it, I
would go silent for you knowthree seconds, a minute.
And um and it was you knowsomething that just did not work
well when you're in theboardroom of you know Fortune
(09:12):
500 companies and things likethat.
Just you know, freeze.
Um they switched me to um uhLyrica.
Same thing, kept on, you know,it didn't didn't go away, went
off of that, and then it wentaway within you know a short
period of time.
Um and so finally after a yearof this terrible pain syndrome,
(09:38):
um, I decided, okay, it's it'stime to to have surgery.
And so I went to someone uh atthe Brigham, uh neurosurgeon
there, who uh you know I metwith, and he went over the MRI
with me and said, okay, well, wecould do this um in a you know
(09:58):
minimally invasive procedure,and you know, you'd be out the
next day and you know, verylittle recovery, etc.
And I was like, okay, great.
And then I called a few peoplethat I knew at at uh at the
Brigham who told me that thatthat neurosurgeon was known as
(10:20):
Dr.
Blood.
So I decided that, you know,that that was probably not a
good place to have thisprocedure, you know, uh a good
surgeon for me.
Um, and so I decided, you know,I should have three consults.
I should, you know, so I wentto another um uh I went and saw
(10:41):
somebody at uh at Mass Generalwho basically told me, you know,
you have no surgical disease.
There's nothing we can do foryou.
You just need to learn to livewith the pain.
Um and so then I went to theMayo Clinic and saw someone who
said, Well, yes, you know, youhave surgical disease for sure.
(11:03):
Um, but this is gonna need anopen procedure that's gonna, you
know, that's you know, it can'tbe this can't be done with
minimal minerally invasiveprocedure.
Yeah, you're gonna need to, youknow, plan on you know months
of of recovery, etc.
So with three different answersfrom three different
neurosurgeons, I'm like, okay,well, you know, this is
(11:25):
ridiculous.
And so I made three moreappointments.
Um and I met with a uh aneurosurgeon that I knew in um
in Tucson that I had workedwith, you know, back when I was
practicing.
And, you know, he looked at myMRIs and, you know, and said,
Well, you know, did you havethis test?
(11:47):
And I'm like, no.
And he's like, Well, there's noway to know whether you need a
minimally invasive procedure ora big open procedure unless
you've had this test.
So let's go over to the, youknow, the radiology office and
have them do this test, see if,you know, if there's spondal
lithiasis.
And so had the test.
(12:07):
And he's like, okay, good.
You know, you don't havespondal lithiasis.
So we could do this with aminimally invasive procedure.
So I was like, okay, great.
Um, then I went to one up atBarrows Neurosurgical in
Phoenix, um, who confirmed thatit could be done in a minimum
minimally invasive nature, butyou know, had terrible bedside
(12:28):
manner and um just you knowwasn't a good fit.
And then I figured, well, I'vealready got this appointment set
up at the Stedman Clinic inVail.
I may as well go through withthat as well.
And when I made theappointment, they said, you
know, okay, well, you know, yourappointment is uh, you know, at
8:30, plan to be there untilabout 12: 30.
(12:51):
I'm like, wow, does he run thatlate?
And she's like, Oh, you theappointment will be you know
three to four hours long.
Dr. Michael Koren (12:59):
Wow.
Dr. David Joseph (12:59):
I'm like, wow, okay.
So, you know, I went there andfirst a PA student came in um
and did her exam, etc.
And then a sports medicine PAuh came in and did his exam.
And then a fellow came in anddid a you know full exam,
(13:21):
testing all kinds of things thatI'd totally forgotten about
since medical school in terms ofyou know uh of a neuro uh exam.
Um and uh and then finally theattending came in, and
interestingly, none of them hadlooked at the MRI yet.
And I asked about that, andhe's like, Oh, we all we always
(13:44):
do this, we go through our examsfirst, then we all get together
and talk about what we thinkclinically from the exam, and
then we look at the MRI togetherand see if that fits.
Interesting.
Yeah, okay.
So this was I realized thefirst time anybody had actually
looked at my back, let alonetouched my back, in six
(14:08):
consoles.
Dr. Michael Koren (14:09):
Oh my god.
Isn't that interesting?
Wow.
Dr. David Joseph (14:12):
And so, you know, they came back.
He said, Okay, you know, weagree this is something that
could be treated with a um witha uh minimally invasive
microdyskectomy.
Um, I had already watched avideo that he had on his website
of doing it, so I see howcareful he was, etc.
And so I said, Oh, I, you know,um, you know, uh okay, I I want
(14:38):
you to do it.
I definitely, you know, wantyou to do this procedure.
And this was in September.
And he said, Well, I, you know,I have some openings the week
after Thanksgiving.
And I'm like, Oh, I can't waitthat long.
You know, I need relief.
And like, well, you know, Idon't know what to tell you.
That's, you know, that's whenour next opening is.
(15:00):
And I said, Well, you knowwhat?
I'm just gonna stay here inVail, and I'm gonna be
NPO (nothing by mouth) aftermidnight every day and check
every morning to see if you'vehad a cancellation.
And he laughed and I said, No,no, I'm serious.
And he's like, Let me go checkon something and went away.
And he came back and he's like,I'll tell you what, I can do
(15:22):
you tomorrow as the last patientof the day.
I'll do it at you know, seveno'clock in the evening.
Um, he said, if you can get,you know, uh uh get cleared by
uh by medicine um and get allyour you know labs, et cetera,
done.
And you know, I pulled out ofmy blazer jacket, all the labs,
(15:43):
uh, the you know, the work up bymy primary care position, etc.,
and said, here you go.
Was like, okay, well, I'll seeyou at seven o'clock tomorrow
night.
Dr. Michael Koren (15:53):
I love it.
Persistence, my friend,persistence, yes.
Dr. David Joseph (15:56):
Yes.
And then um, you know, thesecond I woke up from the
anesthesia, I knew the pain wasgone, completely gone.
And he said that the reasonthat I kept getting better and
then getting worse was that Ihad bone spurs and there was a
lot of fragment in there aswell.
So there's no way I was evergoing to get better with
(16:17):
conservative treatment becausethose fragments and bone spurs
were there.
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Koren (16:22):
Irritate the the nerves, yeah.
Wow.
Incredible story.
Well, it's such it's such anincredible story because one,
unless you were so incrediblypersistent at each step along
the way, you would have nevergotten to the solution.
And two, it shows you thatthere is in modern medicine a
(16:44):
loss of connecting with peoplein the way that's really time
modern and effective with actualexams and actually digging into
what's going on with the personrather than just looking at an
x-ray and deciding thatsomething or can or cannot be
done based on that x-ray.
So to me, that's such afascinating story and really
attribute to your persistenceand creativity to actually get
(17:07):
to the place where you one foundthe right diagnosis, two, found
the right surgeon, and thenultimately got relief.
So great story.
I love that.
Dr. David Joseph (17:15):
Yeah, it we it was remarkable.
And you know, and then this issomeone as a you know, a
physician, not you know any, youknow, someone else might have
just accepted the doc at MassGeneral who said, Oh, you have
no surgical disease, you'll haveto learn to live with the pain.
Dr. Michael Koren (17:31):
Absolutely crazy.
Unbelievable.
So let's transition to our lasttopic of conversation, which is
your super interesting careeras an artist.
And I hope hopefully you'llhave a few samples of your
really terrific work that I'vereviewed on your website, and
you can share that with ourpodcast audience.
But you're obviously a supercreative guy.
You've you have thisengineering background and
(17:52):
management background, and youkind of put it all together and
created some fabulous works ofart.
So tell us a little bit aboutthis story.
Dr. David Joseph (18:00):
Sure.
Well, um, so during uh so I'vealways been a travel
photographer.
I mean, as as a hobby, I'vedone that for years.
I've been to 133 countries onall seven continents and you
know, have photographed all overthe world.
During COVID, it was driving mecrazy that I had to cancel trip
after trip after trip and hadfelt like I had no outlet for my
(18:24):
creativity.
So I decided, okay, well, atleast I'll get something you
know productive done and I'llclean out the garage.
So I started cleaning out thegarage, and everything that I
picked up, I would, you know,see what it could be that, oh,
you know, if you turn thisupside down, it looks like the
head of a giraffe.
And, you know, all thesedifferent you know things were
(18:47):
jumping out at me.
So I started putting thingstogether and and building
things, which, you know, as amechanical engineer, I love
working with my hands.
I love, you know, my powertools and building things.
So it was a perfect, you know,combination.
And I started um I startedcreating this this art.
Um, and uh it I found thatthere was a definite um audience
(19:14):
for it.
And so I you know it was Iapplied for a membership in you
know the oldest uh gallery onMartha's Vineyard that you know
started in 1954, which has avery competitive jury process.
And I um I was you know, I feltI was like too early in my
career to apply there, but I wasencouraged to go ahead and
(19:37):
apply, and sure enough, I wasaccepted.
And so now I've had uh youknow, I've had several galleries
that I uh that I um exhibit at.
And I just can't wait to get upin the morning and go out to my
uh garage studio.
Of course, now the garage istoo full to ever fit a car in,
(19:58):
uh, let alone you know clean outthe garage, but um uh and start
building things.
Um so I've got a number ofthings here that I can show you.
Dr. Michael Koren (20:10):
Yeah, yeah, we'd love to see it.
Show us a couple of things andthe inspiration behind them.
Dr. David Joseph (20:14):
Okay.
Dr. Michael Koren (20:15):
So this one is Okay, so I can see it's an
old microscope.
Dr. David Joseph (20:19):
Yes, it's an old microscope.
Um, and the part from here hasbeen moved up to here to be the
head.
And with those eyes, it itlooks like an alien, and it's
holding, you know, a bluechemical, which is actually
colored salt, and a piece ofchalk, and it's got a uh slide
(20:40):
of a leaf on it, and its name isyou know, is our science
teacher an alien?
Dr. Michael Koren (20:48):
I love it.
So that's one.
And that that was just an old microscope that
was sitting around your garagethat you repurposed?
Dr. David Joseph (20:56):
Yes.
Um and then this one, I'm sureyou can tell.
Um
Dr. Michael Koren (21:06):
It looks like a heart with hands.
With hands holding it.
Uh okay, there you go.
Dr. David Joseph (21:12):
It can either be wall mounted or sitting on a
shelf like such.
This one is, you know, yourheart's in good hands.
Dr. Michael Koren (21:24):
I love it.
Um this one is my is my firstuh double-sided one.
So this is Dr.
Jekyll and Mr.
Hyde.
So a paintbrush.
With the handle up, it's Dr.
(21:45):
Jekyll.
And with the handle down, it'sMr.
Hyde.
That's so funny.
Dr. David Joseph (21:54):
Um I've done a number a number of medical,
medically related ones.
I don't know if this isviewable or not, but you can see
the um single manometer as thebody.
Dr. Michael Koren (22:13):
Okay.
And then it looks like aspatula.
That's part of that?
Dr. David Joseph (22:18):
Yeah, a spatula is the um is sort of the
the fish's uh uh fin.
Uh-huh.
And then the
Dr. Michael Koren (22:26):
Oh, that's so cool.
Yeah, I can see it.
Yeah, yeah, interesting.
Dr. David Joseph (22:30):
Uh shoe trees.
Dr. Michael Koren (22:31):
Uh-huh.
Dr. David Joseph (22:32):
And then of course golf clubs and tail fin.
Dr. Michael Koren (22:38):
Um what do you call that one?
Uh this is just calledMetafish.
Okay.
Then this one.
Uh let's see.
Well it's hard for me to seeexactly, okay.
Dr. David Joseph (23:03):
So this one is named Mike.
Dr. Michael Koren (23:06):
Okay.
Dr. David Joseph (23:07):
And his uh his introduction is
0I can see why he's named Mikenow, okay.
Yeah.
So begging people not to dropthe mic and upset about how that
came into play.
Dr. Michael Koren (23:22):
Oh, that's funny.
Okay.
Now yeah, I can see a littlebit better.
That's hysterical
Dr. David Joseph (23:25):
And then this one.
Uh-huh.
It's a shoe.
It's a shoe, but if you look atthe face here and the and these
um, I don't know if you can seethe curl at the bottom.
This one is Sophia, the spottedseahorse shoe fish.
Dr. Michael Koren (23:47):
Ah, now I can see it.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, at first the the littleswirl at the bottom is hard to
see, but now you can see it.
Uh that's hysterical.
There you go.
That's helpful.
Yeah.
Dr. David Joseph (23:58):
And then there's a whole lot more.
Um, most of them are in thegallery, uh, in one of the
galleries right now.
But um, but your viewers cansee a whole lot of them at my
website, which iswww.davidjosephart.com, um, or
on my Instagram, which is atArtby DavidJoseph.
Dr. Michael Koren (24:19):
I love it.
David, this has been anabsolutely joy for me, a
fascinating conversation.
Thank you for sharing a lot ofexperiences, including personal
experiences, with our audience.
And again, um uh check out hisartistic endeavors.
They're really absolutelyfascinating.
Uh, he sold a lot of them, andI'm I'm sure that some of these
(24:40):
items uh are gonna go fast.
They're all one of a kind.
Am I not mistaken about that?
Dr. David Joseph (24:46):
Correct.
They're all one of a kind.
Dr. Michael Koren (24:48):
So, you know, once somebody uh gets the mic
or somebody gets the uh theseahorse, that's it.
You have to wait uh for thenext generation to get another
one.
Dr. David Joseph (24:57):
That's right.
Um,
Dr. Michael Koren (25:00):
Dave, again, this has been a lot of fun for
me.
Thank you for being part of ourMedEvidence family, and uh,
we'll definitely circle backwith you for another podcast
sometime in the near future.
Dr. David Joseph (25:09):
Sounds good.
I've had fun too.
Announcement (25:12):
Thanks for joining the MedEvidence! Podcast.
To learn more, head over toMedEvidence.com or subscribe to
our podcast on your favoritepodcast platform.
Welcome to MedEvidence!, where we help you
navigate the truth behindmedical research with unbiased,
evidence-proven facts, hosted bycardiologist and top medical
researcher, Dr.
Michael Koren.
Dr. Michael Koren (00:11):
Hello, I'm Dr.
Michael Koren, the executiveeditor of MedEvidence! And I'm
having an absolutely fascinatingconversation with my former
classmate, Dr.
David Joseph.
And he's had just thisspectacular career.
So interesting.
And he's been walking throughsome of these many adventures
that he's had from the time ofhis childhood through his
(00:31):
graduation from Harvard MedicalSchool to becoming a serial
entrepreneur.
So again, Dave, thanks forbeing part of the MedEvidence
family.
And we you just got to keep ongoing.
You know, this stuff has beenamazing.
And uh I've heard your storiesbefore, but every time I listen,
I hear something new, andthere's always a little bit of
nuance.
So you were just telling uswhen we dropped off about an
(00:52):
unfortunate situation that youmade the most of.
So you you fell, you injuredyour own nerve, which prevented
you from doing your routine workas an anesthesiologist, but you
used it as an opportunity tolearn mediation and to learn how
to get much more involved incorporate affairs, and you kind
of ran with that as a career.
So that's what we were justtalking about when we left off.
(01:15):
So uh just give us a little bitmore information about that.
And then I'm really fascinatedto hear about your personal
story with the healthcaresystem, because that to me is so
insightful in terms of howcomplex our healthcare system is
and what you need to do tosucceed when you negotiate it,
when you negotiate with thathealthcare system.
So, Dave, go ahead, just giveus uh a little bit more flavor
(01:37):
on your post-accident careerthat led you from uh going from
anesthesiology to moreadministrative elements of
medicine and ultimatelyconsulting.
Dr. David Joseph (01:48):
Uh well, and then what I really spent most of
my career on was um inventingmedical devices.
So I was working as this as theCEO of that company, um, but
also working with another uh youknow other groups as you know a
medical device inventor.
Um I had banded with uh someother physician engineers uh
(02:14):
physician inventors, and youknow, we started a rapid
prototyping lab.
Um, and you know, our firstproduct was sold to Johnson
& Johnson, who also purchased auh minority interest in the lab.
Um we then transitioned intobuilding a multi-specialty
clinic that gave uh tremendousadvantage to the various um solo
(02:38):
practitioners in the communityby joining and and opening up
the ability to have revenuesfrom MRI and labs and things
that they couldn't do as solopractitioners.
Um and then we we purchased ahospital out of bankruptcy,
renovated it, um, and put thatinto you know into a system so
(02:58):
that we could bill better umwith the hospital as being part
of our system.
Um we then ended up uh buildinguh another hospital.
We sold the land under the umthe clinic um and the hospital
to Ariot um and then did a 1091exchange um purchasing the
(03:21):
largest uh VA clinic in thesoutheast uh side of Atlanta,
um, giving us a you know a greatincome stream on that uh on
that what was otherwise just theland we were sitting on.
Dr. Michael Koren (03:34):
Nice.
When you say we, uh can you saythe name of the company, who
the we is?
Dr. David Joseph (03:39):
Yeah, it was Scott Laboratories.
Dr. Michael Koren (03:41):
Okay.
Dr. David Joseph (03:43):
Um and so uh and then Grace Grace Clinic and
Grace Hospital were the namesof the of what we had built.
Dr. Michael Koren (03:52):
Um and so then we ended up And where where
was that located for the peoplelistening in?
Where's Grace Hospital?
Dr. David Joseph (03:58):
In Texas.
Dr. Michael Koren (03:59):
Got it.
Okay.
Dr. David Joseph (04:00):
So um we then transitioned, and our latest uh
venture has been in bariatricsum and looking for solutions
there and have a product thatyou know we're that we're
working on right now.
Um we've you know transitionedand moved the lab to um to
Puerto Rico.
(04:21):
Um and our you know, and thatthat research is still underway
under a um under a subsidiary.
And then there was anothercompany that had a uh
revolutionary device for umdoing cardiac spec, which
allowed it to be done in twominutes and in an upright
position, um, some somewhat likea dental chair, uh rather than
(04:43):
laying flat on your back, etcetera.
Um, and a number of other uhvarious uh devices and things
that I worked on with varyinggroups of people, you know, over
the years.
Dr. Michael Koren (04:56):
Beautiful.
Absolutely beautiful.
So let's transition to yourrecent personal journey through
the US healthcare system.
I found that so fascinating.
And um I think there'll beimportant insights for the
people who are listening in toour conversation.
Dr. David Joseph (05:13):
Sure.
Um so uh I had a situation.
I um first I tore my uh mymeniscus in my right knee.
Um and while I was uh you knowusing a cane and in a brace and
having to sort of twist my wayoff the couch by you know
(05:35):
pushing on the cane to get up,um apparently uh that you know
pressure caused me to hurriateuh um a disc.
So I woke up one morning and Iwas at the Liberty Hotel, which
is you know in Boston,basically, you know, in the
parking lot of Mass General.
(05:56):
And I woke up and I couldn'tmove.
I mean, the pain was so intensethat I literally had to get an
ambulance to go from the LibertyHotel in the parking lot of
Mass General to the emergencyroom.
Oh my god.
And uh one thing that happenedwhile I was there is that uh I
never saw the attendingphysician.
(06:18):
I had a um uh, I forget whetherit was a PA or a nurse
practitioner, but who claimed tobe the attending physician,
despite wearing a badge thatshowed what their position was.
Um and you know, I was despitehaving trained there, etc., I
(06:39):
really was not treated very wellthere.
Um eventually I, you know, theyput me on some meds, I I left.
Um, and then uh the pain, youknow, essentially was not
resolving.
Um I had an MRI, and the MRIwas read as being, you know,
normal, um, other than some, youknow, old congenital uh spinal
(07:02):
stenosis.
Um and you know, I had an and ayou know, after a few months,
it was the pain was stillterrible.
Um, I had another MRI.
It was also read as beingnormal.
Dr. Michael Koren (07:17):
And the also at Mass General or at a
different place, the second MRI.
Dr. David Joseph (07:21):
The second MRI was at uh Martha's Vineyard
Hospital.
Um and so uh, you know, thepain was just classic for a
herniated disc.
I mean, it, you know, textbook.
Uh so I couldn't believe thatthere was nothing there.
And so one of our um medicalschool classmates, uh, you know,
(07:44):
who was good friends of both ofus, um, had you know, his
practice was uh reading spineMRIs.
So, you know, I sent him a discof it, and he came back, you
know, within minutes saying, Oh,you've got a uh you've got a
far lateral uh herniated disc,an L34.
(08:05):
Um and he's like, you know, Isaid, Well, how could they miss
that?
And he said, Well, actually thefar lateral herniations are are
missed fairly often.
Um he's like, because this isall I do, I look for it, you
know, on every on every film.
Um and so now at least I had aa diagnosis, um, and I would
(08:29):
start to get better, and then itwould suddenly get worse again.
Start to get better, suddenlyworse.
Well, so I went through a yearof conservative treatment, um,
which basically was medications.
Um they put me on gabapentin,and I had a um a language issue
(08:50):
as a result of that.
I would sort of I would have umpause vocalizations, I would be
talking, and without evenrealizing I was doing it, I
would go silent for you knowthree seconds, a minute.
And um and it was you knowsomething that just did not work
well when you're in theboardroom of you know Fortune
(09:12):
500 companies and things likethat.
Just you know, freeze.
Um they switched me to um uhLyrica.
Same thing, kept on, you know,it didn't didn't go away, went
off of that, and then it wentaway within you know a short
period of time.
Um and so finally after a yearof this terrible pain syndrome,
(09:38):
um, I decided, okay, it's it'stime to to have surgery.
And so I went to someone uh atthe Brigham, uh neurosurgeon
there, who uh you know I metwith, and he went over the MRI
with me and said, okay, well, wecould do this um in a you know
(09:58):
minimally invasive procedure,and you know, you'd be out the
next day and you know, verylittle recovery, etc.
And I was like, okay, great.
And then I called a few peoplethat I knew at at uh at the
Brigham who told me that thatthat neurosurgeon was known as
(10:20):
Dr.
Blood.
So I decided that, you know,that that was probably not a
good place to have thisprocedure, you know, uh a good
surgeon for me.
Um, and so I decided, you know,I should have three consults.
I should, you know, so I wentto another um uh I went and saw
(10:41):
somebody at uh at Mass Generalwho basically told me, you know,
you have no surgical disease.
There's nothing we can do foryou.
You just need to learn to livewith the pain.
Um and so then I went to theMayo Clinic and saw someone who
said, Well, yes, you know, youhave surgical disease for sure.
(11:03):
Um, but this is gonna need anopen procedure that's gonna, you
know, that's you know, it can'tbe this can't be done with
minimal minerally invasiveprocedure.
Yeah, you're gonna need to, youknow, plan on you know months
of of recovery, etc.
So with three different answersfrom three different
neurosurgeons, I'm like, okay,well, you know, this is
(11:25):
ridiculous.
And so I made three moreappointments.
Um and I met with a uh aneurosurgeon that I knew in um
in Tucson that I had workedwith, you know, back when I was
practicing.
And, you know, he looked at myMRIs and, you know, and said,
Well, you know, did you havethis test?
(11:47):
And I'm like, no.
And he's like, Well, there's noway to know whether you need a
minimally invasive procedure ora big open procedure unless
you've had this test.
So let's go over to the, youknow, the radiology office and
have them do this test, see if,you know, if there's spondal
lithiasis.
And so had the test.
(12:07):
And he's like, okay, good.
You know, you don't havespondal lithiasis.
So we could do this with aminimally invasive procedure.
So I was like, okay, great.
Um, then I went to one up atBarrows Neurosurgical in
Phoenix, um, who confirmed thatit could be done in a minimum
minimally invasive nature, butyou know, had terrible bedside
(12:28):
manner and um just you knowwasn't a good fit.
And then I figured, well, I'vealready got this appointment set
up at the Stedman Clinic inVail.
I may as well go through withthat as well.
And when I made theappointment, they said, you
know, okay, well, you know, yourappointment is uh, you know, at
8:30, plan to be there untilabout 12: 30.
(12:51):
I'm like, wow, does he run thatlate?
And she's like, Oh, you theappointment will be you know
three to four hours long.
Dr. Michael Koren (12:59):
Wow.
Dr. David Joseph (12:59):
I'm like, wow, okay.
So, you know, I went there andfirst a PA student came in um
and did her exam, etc.
And then a sports medicine PAuh came in and did his exam.
And then a fellow came in anddid a you know full exam,
(13:21):
testing all kinds of things thatI'd totally forgotten about
since medical school in terms ofyou know uh of a neuro uh exam.
Um and uh and then finally theattending came in, and
interestingly, none of them hadlooked at the MRI yet.
And I asked about that, andhe's like, Oh, we all we always
(13:44):
do this, we go through our examsfirst, then we all get together
and talk about what we thinkclinically from the exam, and
then we look at the MRI togetherand see if that fits.
Interesting.
Yeah, okay.
So this was I realized thefirst time anybody had actually
looked at my back, let alonetouched my back, in six
(14:08):
consoles.
Dr. Michael Koren (14:09):
Oh my god.
Isn't that interesting?
Wow.
Dr. David Joseph (14:12):
And so, you know, they came back.
He said, Okay, you know, weagree this is something that
could be treated with a um witha uh minimally invasive
microdyskectomy.
Um, I had already watched avideo that he had on his website
of doing it, so I see howcareful he was, etc.
And so I said, Oh, I, you know,um, you know, uh okay, I I want
(14:38):
you to do it.
I definitely, you know, wantyou to do this procedure.
And this was in September.
And he said, Well, I, you know,I have some openings the week
after Thanksgiving.
And I'm like, Oh, I can't waitthat long.
You know, I need relief.
And like, well, you know, Idon't know what to tell you.
That's, you know, that's whenour next opening is.
(15:00):
And I said, Well, you knowwhat?
I'm just gonna stay here inVail, and I'm gonna be
NPO (nothing by mouth) aftermidnight every day and check
every morning to see if you'vehad a cancellation.
And he laughed and I said, No,no, I'm serious.
And he's like, Let me go checkon something and went away.
And he came back and he's like,I'll tell you what, I can do
(15:22):
you tomorrow as the last patientof the day.
I'll do it at you know, seveno'clock in the evening.
Um, he said, if you can get,you know, uh uh get cleared by
uh by medicine um and get allyour you know labs, et cetera,
done.
And you know, I pulled out ofmy blazer jacket, all the labs,
(15:43):
uh, the you know, the work up bymy primary care position, etc.,
and said, here you go.
Was like, okay, well, I'll seeyou at seven o'clock tomorrow
night.
Dr. Michael Koren (15:53):
I love it.
Persistence, my friend,persistence, yes.
Dr. David Joseph (15:56):
Yes.
And then um, you know, thesecond I woke up from the
anesthesia, I knew the pain wasgone, completely gone.
And he said that the reasonthat I kept getting better and
then getting worse was that Ihad bone spurs and there was a
lot of fragment in there aswell.
So there's no way I was evergoing to get better with
(16:17):
conservative treatment becausethose fragments and bone spurs
were there.
Yeah.
Dr. Michael Koren (16:22):
Irritate the the nerves, yeah.
Wow.
Incredible story.
Well, it's such it's such anincredible story because one,
unless you were so incrediblypersistent at each step along
the way, you would have nevergotten to the solution.
And two, it shows you thatthere is in modern medicine a
(16:44):
loss of connecting with peoplein the way that's really time
modern and effective with actualexams and actually digging into
what's going on with the personrather than just looking at an
x-ray and deciding thatsomething or can or cannot be
done based on that x-ray.
So to me, that's such afascinating story and really
attribute to your persistenceand creativity to actually get
(17:07):
to the place where you one foundthe right diagnosis, two, found
the right surgeon, and thenultimately got relief.
So great story.
I love that.
Dr. David Joseph (17:15):
Yeah, it we it was remarkable.
And you know, and then this issomeone as a you know, a
physician, not you know any, youknow, someone else might have
just accepted the doc at MassGeneral who said, Oh, you have
no surgical disease, you'll haveto learn to live with the pain.
Dr. Michael Koren (17:31):
Absolutely crazy.
Unbelievable.
So let's transition to our lasttopic of conversation, which is
your super interesting careeras an artist.
And I hope hopefully you'llhave a few samples of your
really terrific work that I'vereviewed on your website, and
you can share that with ourpodcast audience.
But you're obviously a supercreative guy.
You've you have thisengineering background and
(17:52):
management background, and youkind of put it all together and
created some fabulous works ofart.
So tell us a little bit aboutthis story.
Dr. David Joseph (18:00):
Sure.
Well, um, so during uh so I'vealways been a travel
photographer.
I mean, as as a hobby, I'vedone that for years.
I've been to 133 countries onall seven continents and you
know, have photographed all overthe world.
During COVID, it was driving mecrazy that I had to cancel trip
after trip after trip and hadfelt like I had no outlet for my
(18:24):
creativity.
So I decided, okay, well, atleast I'll get something you
know productive done and I'llclean out the garage.
So I started cleaning out thegarage, and everything that I
picked up, I would, you know,see what it could be that, oh,
you know, if you turn thisupside down, it looks like the
head of a giraffe.
And, you know, all thesedifferent you know things were
(18:47):
jumping out at me.
So I started putting thingstogether and and building
things, which, you know, as amechanical engineer, I love
working with my hands.
I love, you know, my powertools and building things.
So it was a perfect, you know,combination.
And I started um I startedcreating this this art.
Um, and uh it I found thatthere was a definite um audience
(19:14):
for it.
And so I you know it was Iapplied for a membership in you
know the oldest uh gallery onMartha's Vineyard that you know
started in 1954, which has avery competitive jury process.
And I um I was you know, I feltI was like too early in my
career to apply there, but I wasencouraged to go ahead and
(19:37):
apply, and sure enough, I wasaccepted.
And so now I've had uh youknow, I've had several galleries
that I uh that I um exhibit at.
And I just can't wait to get upin the morning and go out to my
uh garage studio.
Of course, now the garage istoo full to ever fit a car in,
(19:58):
uh, let alone you know clean outthe garage, but um uh and start
building things.
Um so I've got a number ofthings here that I can show you.
Dr. Michael Koren (20:10):
Yeah, yeah, we'd love to see it.
Show us a couple of things andthe inspiration behind them.
Dr. David Joseph (20:14):
Okay.
Dr. Michael Koren (20:15):
So this one is Okay, so I can see it's an
old microscope.
Dr. David Joseph (20:19):
Yes, it's an old microscope.
Um, and the part from here hasbeen moved up to here to be the
head.
And with those eyes, it itlooks like an alien, and it's
holding, you know, a bluechemical, which is actually
colored salt, and a piece ofchalk, and it's got a uh slide
(20:40):
of a leaf on it, and its name isyou know, is our science
teacher an alien?
Dr. Michael Koren (20:48):
I love it.
So that's one.
And that that was just an old microscope that
was sitting around your garagethat you repurposed?
Dr. David Joseph (20:56):
Yes.
Um and then this one, I'm sureyou can tell.
Um
Dr. Michael Koren (21:06):
It looks like a heart with hands.
With hands holding it.
Uh okay, there you go.
Dr. David Joseph (21:12):
It can either be wall mounted or sitting on a
shelf like such.
This one is, you know, yourheart's in good hands.
Dr. Michael Koren (21:24):
I love it.
Um this one is my is my firstuh double-sided one.
So this is Dr.
Jekyll and Mr.
Hyde.
So a paintbrush.
With the handle up, it's Dr.
(21:45):
Jekyll.
And with the handle down, it'sMr.
Hyde.
That's so funny.
Dr. David Joseph (21:54):
Um I've done a number a number of medical,
medically related ones.
I don't know if this isviewable or not, but you can see
the um single manometer as thebody.
Dr. Michael Koren (22:13):
Okay.
And then it looks like aspatula.
That's part of that?
Dr. David Joseph (22:18):
Yeah, a spatula is the um is sort of the
the fish's uh uh fin.
Uh-huh.
And then the
Dr. Michael Koren (22:26):
Oh, that's so cool.
Yeah, I can see it.
Yeah, yeah, interesting.
Dr. David Joseph (22:30):
Uh shoe trees.
Dr. Michael Koren (22:31):
Uh-huh.
Dr. David Joseph (22:32):
And then of course golf clubs and tail fin.
Dr. Michael Koren (22:38):
Um what do you call that one?
Uh this is just calledMetafish.
Okay.
Then this one.
Uh let's see.
Well it's hard for me to seeexactly, okay.
Dr. David Joseph (23:03):
So this one is named Mike.
Dr. Michael Koren (23:06):
Okay.
Dr. David Joseph (23:07):
And his uh his introduction is
0I can see why he's named Mikenow, okay.
Yeah.
So begging people not to dropthe mic and upset about how that
came into play.
Dr. Michael Koren (23:22):
Oh, that's funny.
Okay.
Now yeah, I can see a littlebit better.
That's hysterical
Dr. David Joseph (23:25):
And then this one.
Uh-huh.
It's a shoe.
It's a shoe, but if you look atthe face here and the and these
um, I don't know if you can seethe curl at the bottom.
This one is Sophia, the spottedseahorse shoe fish.
Dr. Michael Koren (23:47):
Ah, now I can see it.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, at first the the littleswirl at the bottom is hard to
see, but now you can see it.
Uh that's hysterical.
There you go.
That's helpful.
Yeah.
Dr. David Joseph (23:58):
And then there's a whole lot more.
Um, most of them are in thegallery, uh, in one of the
galleries right now.
But um, but your viewers cansee a whole lot of them at my
website, which iswww.davidjosephart.com, um, or
on my Instagram, which is atArtby DavidJoseph.
Dr. Michael Koren (24:19):
I love it.
David, this has been anabsolutely joy for me, a
fascinating conversation.
Thank you for sharing a lot ofexperiences, including personal
experiences, with our audience.
And again, um uh check out hisartistic endeavors.
They're really absolutelyfascinating.
Uh, he sold a lot of them, andI'm I'm sure that some of these
(24:40):
items uh are gonna go fast.
They're all one of a kind.
Am I not mistaken about that?
Dr. David Joseph (24:46):
Correct.
They're all one of a kind.
Dr. Michael Koren (24:48):
So, you know, once somebody uh gets the mic
or somebody gets the uh theseahorse, that's it.
You have to wait uh for thenext generation to get another
one.
Dr. David Joseph (24:57):
That's right.
Um,
Dr. Michael Koren (25:00):
Dave, again, this has been a lot of fun for
me.
Thank you for being part of ourMedEvidence family, and uh,
we'll definitely circle backwith you for another podcast
sometime in the near future.
Dr. David Joseph (25:09):
Sounds good.
I've had fun too.
Announcement (25:12):
Thanks for joining the MedEvidence! Podcast.
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