June 18, 2025 • 36 mins
Monetization remains the great unsolved puzzle for most podcasters, with traditional advertising models serving only the top 5% of shows. But what if the problem isn't your audience size, but rather the broken business model itself?
Jeffrey Specter, founder of CodeADX and former radio executive, pulls back the curtain on why the podcast industry's CPM (cost per thousand) approach fundamentally fails smaller creators. "The overwhelming majority of shows really can't make money because the business model is broken unless you're a very big show," Spector explains. With recent reports showing that the top 500 podcasts represent over 80% of all advertising revenue, the disparity couldn't be clearer.
Even when creators do secure advertising, the financial reality is sobering. What begins as a $75-100 CPM gets whittled down through multiple intermediaries—ad agencies taking half, sales organizations taking 30-40%—until creators might receive just $2-5 per thousand listeners. Add to this the industry's notoriously delayed payment schedules (often 90-120 days), and the situation becomes even more challenging for independent voices.
The solution? A revolutionary marketplace that pays creators based on their influence rather than their audience size. CodeADX connects podcasters directly with carefully vetted brands through a commission-based model, enabling even small shows to generate substantial revenue. Spector shares the remarkable story of a podcaster with fewer than 1,000 downloads who earned nearly $2,500 by generating $16,000 in sales for a footwear brand—something impossible under traditional advertising models.
This approach benefits everyone involved: listeners receive exclusive discounts, creators earn immediate commissions (paid the same day as the purchase), and brands pay only when actual sales occur. Most importantly, it allows for authentic integration rather than interruption, preserving the intimate connection that makes podcasting powerful.
Ready to transform how you monetize your podcast? Visit CodeADX.com to join a platform that values your influence, not just your download numbers.
This podcast is proudly sponsored by USC Annenberg’s Master of Science in Digital Media Management (MSDMM) program. An online master’s designed to prepare practitioners to understand the evolving media landscape, make data-driven and ethical decisions, and build a more equitable future by leading diverse teams with the technical, artistic, analytical, and production skills needed to create engaging content and technologies for the global marketplace. Learn more or apply today at https://dmm.usc.edu.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Mediascape insights from digital
changemakers, a speaker seriesand podcast brought to you by
USC Annenberg's Digital MediaManagement Program.
Join us as we unlock thesecrets to success in an
increasingly digital world.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I am thrilled to dive into one of my favorite topics
podcasting, but even better,monetization.
It's funny because a lot of ourstudents in the digital media
management program want to startpodcasts.
One thing I always get pushbackon is but how do you monetize?
And that is where JeffreySpector comes in.
(00:44):
Jeffrey, thank you for beinghere on Mediascape.
Thank you for having me.
Of course, let's talk a littlebit about what you've discovered
about monetization in thepodcast ecosystem.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Well, I think the biggest takeaway is that
unfortunately for theoverwhelming majority, which is
probably somewhere north of 95%of shows, they really can't make
money, and that's because thebusiness model is sort of broken
, unless you're a very big show.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
And that's really frustrating for everybody.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
My background is, you know, I ran radio stations
across the country, you know,from Boston to Los Angeles,
chicago, philadelphia.
Along the ways the companymerged and got bought and then
became a very big company thatturned into iHeart.
So I left sort of when iHeartcame in and started being an
(02:04):
entrepreneur in the space.
But along the way, you know,podcasting really grows out of
radio and as far as the businessmodel is concerned, it's using
radio's business model.
And that's actually what theproblem is, Because radio's
(02:25):
business model is a mass mediamodel where you're buying scale
of audience.
So traditionally it's basicallybought on a cost per thousand
CPM.
So if you're, you know everyonein podcasting, you know it's
like what CPM did you get?
And very few people realizethat the M in CPM is thousands.
(02:45):
So really what you're doing isyou're selling bundles of 1,000
people.
So if you got a $5 CPM, you got$5 for every 1,000 people you
have.
So since most podcasts struggleto get a thousand people,
(03:07):
there's your problem and I cango into more graphic detail.
But basically you know, that'sreally you know and that's why
all even get these reports allthe time the overwhelming
majority, I think it's.
I think they just came out withsomething that said the top 500
(03:28):
shows represented over 80% ofall the revenue.
It is crazy, and that's becausethe flip side of this is that
podcasting is, while it'swonderful and it works and
brands want to be in it, it isbrutally difficult to buy on
(03:52):
your own unless you have an adagency.
Yeah, so you have a flip sideon that side that only the
bigger brands are really usingpodcasts, because they're not
buying it unless they have anin-house expert or they have an
agency.
No agency is touching themunless they spend at least 50
grand to test it, and theoverwhelming majority of
(04:15):
businesses out there aren'tspending $50,000 to test drive
to see if a podcast work whenthey're struggling just to make
AdSense work work when they'restruggling just to make AdSense
work.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yeah, firsthand knowledge.
Of course I've had sponsors whoare smaller organizations, but
they didn't really know whatthey wanted out of sponsorship,
so you know they were expectingresults that were not what we
talked about.
It makes it difficult whenyou're an independent podcaster
to work sometimes with thosesponsors if they're directly
tying it into how many peopleare now clicking through and
purchasing my productimmediately.
(04:49):
Right, because it's all aboutcultivation, as all the touch
points which you also talkedabout before we jumped on push
record.
The other side is I am part ofan ad network and it's an
aggregator, but the kinds of adsthat go on it are the large
organizations the Chase,sapphire credit cards right, the
LinkedIn Learnings, theuniversities, the fast food
(05:13):
brands, right, the Canvas of theworld, companies that have a
lot of money to spend.
And even then I have to have alot of scale to really make it
worth my time to have ads on mypodcast.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Well, and there's a problem inside that you know,
one of those like Russian dollsyeah, doll and a doll and a doll
.
Well, this is that, thisconversation, because the what
you really sort of touched on,the advertisers you all listed
were basically brand advertisersand they're buying size of
audience.
Podcasting was actually reallybuilt, really got it off the
(05:52):
ground and the true success ofit is direct to consumer.
It's ability to move productright.
So use my promo code, you know,use this link, that kind of
stuff.
That's the sweet spot ofpodcasting.
And there's a whole big, youknow, and you're seeing a lot of
money come in on brand becausebasically, advertisers are
(06:12):
trying to treat the bigger showsor then aggregate a whole lot
of little shows together toequal what is, in essence, the
size of a radio station.
Yeah, exactly.
So they're putting a round pegin a square hole and there's a
lot of frustration on both sidesbecause they don't fit.
The biggest frustration is that, as I said, only the bigger
(06:37):
shows are making money Right.
Then for the little shows, it'svery difficult for that, for
these, the buyers in the media,to aggregate and find everybody.
So the whole system doesn'twork unless you have a big show.
Yeah, a very big show.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yeah, and can aggregate it.
I mean, that's definitely thebusiness model of the ad network
that I'm on.
You know I do have, becausewhat I'm finding is I joined and
now they're even acceptingpodcasts with smaller audience
sizes than mine because theyneed more scale.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
They do, right.
But at the end of the day, youknow, you as the content creator
, you're not.
You're still getting paid onthe cost per thousand, right, I
mean?
And so, and actually it is sougly, what happens because you
hear these quotes, oh, it's $20a thousand.
Well, let me tell you somethingit doesn't end up in your bank
(07:35):
at 20 bucks a thousand, right,exactly Because 20 bucks a
thousand, maybe it's at somepoint.
But then the sales organizationtook 30%, the targeting
organization took its cut.
There are like four or fivepeople sometimes.
And what I'm finding is, on mostof this kind of programmatic
(07:58):
where you just hook up yourcomputer to a computer and it
shoots the ads into you, at theend of the day you're lucky to
get, you know, five bucks athousand.
Usually it's somewhere belowfive dollars, a thousand to two,
three bucks a thousand.
And it doesn't matter, becauseif you know you have a decent
(08:20):
show and you have 3,000 people,that means 3,000 people.
Think about that.
I mean that would fill, youknow, new York City at all.
The Beacon Theater, right, thatwould fill the Beacon Theater,
right?
You have 3,000 people, episodeafter episode after episode, and
(08:41):
you're releasing once a week,month in month, you got a big
following and you still can'tmake any money.
Yeah, so these people, peopleneed to be paid on their
influence that's my wholeargument, not on their ability
to drive scale.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Well, I love that, and that also ties directly into
my little segue, which is thatit's not only about you get very
low CPMs when it comes down toit, but it's also about the
payout timeframe.
So I get paid for a quarter ata time.
It's ridiculous.
But I get paid right.
(09:18):
So March was a really, reallygood month, but I won't get paid
for March, April, May, untilthe end of September.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Well, again it goes back to the model of radio.
So when you're running a radiostation typically, or a TV
station or any type of massmedia, lots of times your
receivables are on and not youknow, they go out to 90 days
yeah, 120 sometimes.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, usually 45 to 90 days.
Yeah, 120, sometimes yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Usually 45 to 60 day.
What's happening is the clientmay be paying them, you know, 45
, 60 days, and then they taketheir yeah, and it's just
ridiculous.
I mean the other.
The real ugly truth is thatwhen they're talking about that
$20 CPM well, when it left.
When they're talking about that$20 CPM well, when it left,
(10:12):
it's like a truck pulls up tothe warehouse and then it gets
loaded and it leaves and whatgets dropped off is not what
gets loaded, because when itleft, meaning what was the
client willing to pay for thatsale?
It's probably more like closerto $75 to $80, as much as $100
for this right.
But then the first stop is thead agency.
They're taking probably half ofwhat the client is willing to
(10:37):
pay.
They're taking in fees and thenthey're also taking in
arbitrage.
They're playing arbitrage.
It's all kinds of games thatthey play, but the big picture
they're taking half of it.
Then it goes to the salesorganization, yeah, and they're
taking usually 30 to 40 percentat least.
And then on and on and on.
(10:58):
So when you're getting, youknow, five bucks, a thousand,
you know the guy that wrote thecheck to reach your listener.
They wrote the check, probably80 for 80 bucks and you got five
yeah exactly so.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
you've created something unique to the market
that changes that trajectory byspades.
So I'd love for you to talkabout what prompted you to
create Code80X.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
So, yeah, what we built is a marketplace, and I
define it as take Uber, a datingapp and an ad network and put
it in a blender.
That would be us.
So think of it more like adating app, where you have
brands on one side andpodcasters on the other or
content creators on the other,and they come in and the content
creator chooses what they wantto promote.
(11:55):
It's reverse, not the advertiserpicks the media and then the
creator, the podcaster, will gopromote.
We give them all the tools theyneed, all the information about
the brand and when they sign upto the system, they onboard
takes about a minute and theycreate a promo code traditional
(12:16):
podcast stuff and that promocode is tied to their show and
then when they go and apply todeals, they're accepted for a
deal 99% of them are accepted.
Their promo code is thenregistered at that store's
checkout and when they drive thecustomer, their listener, to
(12:37):
make a purchase, to use the codeto get the listener discount,
the podcaster or creator gets asales commission.
And that's the big difference.
They're not paid any type ofdelivery.
You know how much audiencethey're paid for actually being
the salesperson to deliver thesale, and the sales commission
is usually somewhere between 15%and 20%.
(12:59):
That's a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
That is, and you don't make people wait.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Oh no.
And the way our system works iswhy I say it's like Uber,
because the advertiser comes in,they list their deal, they put
their credit card down and theywait for people to ride, you
know, and when someone shows upwith the car, it makes a
purchase with the code.
We see it because we're insidetheir system and we charge their
(13:26):
credit card on the spot and payyou guys that night.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, let's share an example that I was just telling
you about.
You were texting me like hey,did you just you, just you know
buy something?
I was testing out one of mycodes because I registered for
code 80x.
I haven't used it.
I've had, you know, the linksin a few places, but now I'm
finally gonna record all the adsfor the show and for socials.
And one of my students wastalking about one of the brands
(13:52):
that's in your platform CozyEarth.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Cozy Earth, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Right and I said, oh, I have a code for you for that.
And so all my students werelike, yes, we want this code.
So I went in and I was like,let me test this.
And as soon as I purchasedsomething because I need some
stuff from Cozy Earth anyway youtexted me immediately and said
hey, did you just make thispurchase?
So that's how instantaneous itis and that's how fast you can
(14:19):
get, that's how quickly you getthe data.
So can you talk a little bitabout some of the shows that are
using your platform to fulleffect?
That might not have a bigaudience, but they have a big
enough audience that they'rereally.
You know, they have a dedicatedaudience that is purchasing.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Yeah, and so what's happened?
This stuff and we came out ofbeta in January and I'm finding
stuff every day and shows come,you know, people come in, you
know, and then they register andthen they kind of look at our
information.
We teach them what to do.
It's all online, it's very easy, but I'm seeing what works and
what doesn't and I'll reach outto them, all right.
So it's very easy, but I'mseeing what works and what
(14:57):
doesn't and I'll reach out tothem, all right.
So I'm getting differentexamples, but and I think I may
have talked about this before Ihave one podcaster.
He's tiny, he's got less than athousand downloads per episode
and I think he releases, youknow, once a week or so.
That's a relatively small show.
Okay, once a week or so, that'sa relatively small show, not
(15:19):
relatively, that's a very smallshow.
And this guy started sellinglike crazy.
He's selling these thingscalled Stan Shoes and Stan Shoes
are the.
They're really sort of builtfor nurses and even athletes who
are staying on their feet a lotor exercise, and they're really
cool, cutting edge, all thisstuff.
You go to the website.
(15:40):
It's got all the fancy stuff,award winning this and that, all
that stuff, right and all of asudden I'm just watching, it's
like, because I get same thingEvery time a sale comes through
we hook the system up to Slackand so I'm sitting there all day
long my phone, bing, and so I'msitting there all day long, my
phone.
So I see, so this guy isselling like crazy and I'm like
(16:01):
what's going on.
So I call him up and I'm likewhat are you doing?
And he said yeah, you know.
I said what kind of show areyou?
He goes well, I'm a classicrock podcaster.
I talk about classic rock.
I said well, wow, these aresort of more for nurses.
What are you telling youraudience?
(16:22):
He said I told them these areperfect to go watch concerts in.
Yeah, and that itself just kindof explains, I mean, when
people talk about targeting andfit and all that stuff.
I sort of just erased all ofthis because you had asked
(16:42):
before.
How I got into this is becauseI've been in this from the
beginning and I'm looking fromthe inside out what's not
working and everyone's spendingall their time on targeting and
attribution and what this guyjust did is what we built the
system to be.
It's like I'm going to marryyou or give you the ability to
figure out what brand you wantto talk about.
(17:04):
I'm going to give you all theinformation and make it really
easy for you to be able toarticulate it, and I'm going to
give you no rules.
You don't have to run this asan ad.
I prefer that it doesn't gointo an ad break.
I prefer that it's an authenticconversation you have with your
audience.
I'm going to give you variousways to do it.
It's up to you and you come upwith the positioning, and that's
(17:27):
what this guy did.
He just came.
I didn't tell him that, hey,this would be great if you
position this as great shoes togo see live music in.
He did it himself, yeah, and sothis guy has sold since March 1
, about $16,000 worth of shoes.
Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah.
(17:51):
So you know what's that he'smade.
He's getting close to $2,500.
He's made.
What's that he's made?
He's getting close to $2,500.
He's made he ain't making$2,500 on a 700 person podcast
that he releases once a week.
No, not under traditionaladvertising and I'm seeing other
examples.
Obviously, I'm seeing otherexamples like that.
(18:12):
So when it hits, it hits, and Ithink what we're sort of
stumbling on is kind of hit anerve, because everybody wants
to be able to monetize theircontent.
Nobody can make it work unlessthere are massive shows and if
you can't, great, go CPM allyour life long, but really no
one can how big your audience is.
(18:33):
Because yeah, that guy had 700listeners but he sold all that.
That $16,000 worth of salescame from, I think, about 130
people.
So it only took 130 people tobuy.
(18:55):
So the average sale there islike 110 bucks or something.
The average sale at Cozy Earthis right now is sitting about
$220 per purchase.
You're getting 15 to 20 percentcommission on that stuff and
your audience is getting a hugediscount too.
So the math just works.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Yeah, it really does, and it's the secret I don't
know.
It's a secret lever that I canpull when I'm talking about
podcasting and monetization withpeople.
I mean it's not so secret,right, but it's still your
relatively new company.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Yeah, Well, the dirty secret of the business is that.
I don't know if it's a dirtysecret, but this is exactly what
the ad agencies do.
So, and it's great thatpodcasting is starting to get
all this brand business and morepower to it.
It's got to be careful, becausewhat is killing radio could
(19:47):
also start to kill podcasts.
What's killing radio is notthat it's playing the wrong
music, all right.
It's playing the wrongcommercials and playing too many
of them.
Yeah, that's what's been killingradio for a long time.
And you're starting to see thishappen in podcasts, where there
are starting to be too manycommercials and they're the
(20:09):
wrong commercials.
And in podcasts it's even worsebecause you know, let's face it
, you're there in thisconversation and that's what
makes it work.
That's why it sells so good.
And all of a sudden, boom, youget some like.
Some interrupt, you interruptthe mood, exactly.
Yeah, all right.
That is probably the biggestbrick wall that podcasts is
(20:34):
heading towards.
That people are the top of thefood chain, are starting to
recognize.
Yeah, that's a problem, butit's going to continue to be a
much bigger problem in thefuture.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah.
So we have to be carefulstewards of our shows, how we're
monetizing, how we'reapproaching this, making sure
there are products or servicesthat we would use, even if we
haven't used them yet.
So that brings me to you workwith Shopify stores.
How do you vet the stores thatyou work with, because you know
(21:06):
that could be another issue.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Yeah.
So the way our system works isthat, as I said, you know, we're
like a dating app.
So they call the stores, thegirls, and we pull them all from
Shopify.
So if you're adirect-to-consumer advertiser,
it's pretty rare that you're noton Shopify.
All right, and so we built anapp that is in the Shopify store
(21:30):
.
So Shopify has an app ecosystem, like Apple does.
So the Shopify store gets to goin, look at and find our app,
install it in, and it's free forthem to install.
Okay, and they get to install,and then for them, it's a great
deal because this is all free.
No, it's all.
There's no risk.
(21:51):
So they get to be connected tothese advertisers.
It's like the Stan Shoes exampleI just told you about.
The only thing he has to payfor is the commission on the
sale after it's made.
This is 100% guaranteedadvertising return on investment
.
It's like the Holy Grail, right?
(22:11):
Even you could argue that.
Well, facebook and Googlethey're great, they may be
really good at what they do, butyou still have to put the money
up front.
Exactly, yeah, and there'sstill no guarantee that that
thing's going to work.
So if it didn't work, you lostthe money.
They'll keep going till you getthe click.
They're not going to keep, butthey're not guaranteed a sale.
I guarantee the sale, you thesale, I guarantee the sale.
(22:36):
You don't pay a penny unless.
So who isn't willing to pay?
Basically, what you're going topay, you know the waiter at a
restaurant to deliver the sale.
Yeah, so the way this works isand I'm sorry I'm rambling is
that you install the app and soanybody can install the app and
I will then see the store andI'll take a look at the store
and we also do outreach thestores.
There are a lot of stores.
I'll take a look at the storeand we also do outreach to the
stores.
There are a lot of stores Ijust don't let in the system
(22:57):
because I just don't feel theirproduct is worthy of being
promoted by our podcasters.
Wow, because their productisn't good, they're not selling
something unique.
So unless you have a productthat I feel, that we feel me and
my team, we feel that issomething that a podcaster can
talk about and there could be astory about it, then we don't
(23:19):
want it.
You know, I built this system.
I can have thousands andthousands of advertisers and
when I talk to some, you knowpartners and stuff that we work
with.
They're like oh, how many canyou put?
5,000?
Yeah, I could put 5,000 storiesin, but what good is that going
to do?
Right, it's too much, right?
Yeah, I'd rather have you knowthree to 500 really good stores.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yeah, because as the podcaster, we have to go through
all of the stores to look atwhat we feel is going to match
our vibe and our audience.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
We're releasing filters and then recommendations
for you.
Oh, okay, so we just didn't dothat yet, but that's coming yeah
.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Fantastic, so you bet them.
You're keeping it limited toproducts that you think will add
value.
Every single one of theseproducts has a discount for the
person who's purchasing and acommission for the podcaster or
the content creator, becauseyou're going to be expanding a
little bit.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Yeah Well.
So first of all, the discountis we ask the store to make sure
that the discount we give foryou guys to promote is the
highest discount, so there's nobigger discount.
So that's why if you go to CozyEarth, it's 41, not 40.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yeah, it's a very big discount.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
But, yeah, lots of times the discount we get is
substantially higher thananything that's out there.
I just need it to be the bestbecause I don't want there to be
code conflict and my peopledriving, their people showing up
and it's like, well, this codewas better, so I'm going to use
that instead, and then theydon't get the sale.
And if the store doesn't, youknow, can't commit to that
understanding, then you know,then this isn't right for them.
(25:08):
But the flip side of this isthey're getting just so much, in
essence, free media value.
I mean an enormous.
I mean I'm bringing themhundreds of podcasters.
They're all talking about themall day long and they're all
talking about them to theiraudiences, and these are
audiences that in a millionyears they would never be able
to reach.
Yeah For cozy.
Who doesn't?
Speaker 2 (25:28):
need sheets Exactly.
Sheets, towels, pajamas, socks,tote bags they have a lot of
different things.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Yeah, I sell them for an advertisement.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
So if anybody's listening and they do want to
purchase and you go to the store, put in YBA as your promo code
and you'll get discount off thevault.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Have you, even though it's a relatively new product,
your platform that is?
Do you have any people who'veconnected who aren't happy on
the store side?
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Not really.
No, I mean I get them callingme up saying what can I do to
get more activity?
How can I get them to pick me?
You know that kind of stuffwhich we're going to come out
with ways for them to have someoptions to do that.
I had one bizarre situation Ihad actually they email it today
(26:23):
, this company, they sellnon-alcoholic drinks and
somebody made a sale yesterdayand then they uninstalled.
It's rare when someoneuninstalls we see everything.
So I get a hold of them and hesaid, oh no, no, it's nothing.
We got bought by a big companyand we're not allowed to use
(26:46):
podcasts unless our lawyersreview them first.
And it was too much to havethem involved.
And I said, yeah, I get it.
Fine, that's the only time I'veheard anything.
No, it's been great.
I mean, you know, I've gottennice.
You know thank yous from thestand Cozy Earth others there's.
You know there's anotheradvertiser that we're starting
(27:09):
to sell a lot of Eric Javits'hats High-end hat Melania Trump
awarded at the inauguration.
But you know I'm coming up to.
You know I probably sold aboutover $7,000 worth of his hats
recently from just a couple ofpodcasters.
So yeah, we're starting to seethe pockets.
(27:30):
We're starting to see whatworks, why it works, how it
works.
We're bottling it and thenwe're distributing it out to all
the podcasters.
Hey, this is what Johnny did.
He just made this.
I see you're doing that.
That's really a big.
What I'm really sort of learnedhere is that I can connect you
guys and you'll do okay, but ifI can connect you and then share
(27:53):
the secrets, then everyone doesreally.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
That's our secret sauce right now.
We built this kind of connecteddots and that's how I knew what
you did.
I mean, the minute a sale goesthrough, I see it, I see I can
go in, I can look at yourtranscript, I can listen to it,
I can see your keywords, I cansee your social activity and I
can go.
This is why you made the sale.
(28:18):
This is why I didn't make thesale Today.
I had someone did that.
They sold a bunch of these hatsand what I found out was they
sold a bunch of these hats for200 bucks 250 a sale.
And what they did is they putthe link in their show notes,
but they put the wrong link in.
Oh no, they didn't put the link.
(28:40):
So we give you the link withthe code embedded.
Yeah, so you can put it in yourshow notes and say, hey, use
code.
You know, jeff at blah blahblah.
But to make it easy for you,you can look at my show notes
and click on the link.
It will take them there andautomatically fill your code.
But they put the wrong link inand I see people making that
(29:01):
mistake.
So I sent them a note.
Do the right link, you'll sellmore.
I really don't think anyone'sreally had a system where they
I'm certainly the advertisingagency and the media at the same
time.
So I'm tracking both sides andI'm watching both sides and I'm
(29:21):
sharing that information toenhance the commission
capability.
Yeah, both sides win.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
It's really transformative because you are
being super transparent andhonest and ethical in the way
that you're approaching this.
You have all the data.
So it's great that you have thedata from all the different
sides and you can see exactlywhat pinpoint, exactly what's
working, because that's notnecessarily something we see in
traditional digital media bias.
(29:48):
It's funny to use the wordtraditional and digital, but you
know what I'm saying.
So, yeah, advertising and theseother methods, you get some of
the data, but you don't knowalways exactly.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
They can't.
I see the round trip.
I was meeting I'll leave thenames out but I was meeting with
the chairman of one of the bigname ad agencies that is
responsible for an enormousamount of podcast advertising,
and I'm showing this person thisand I showed him some of this
(30:20):
stuff and he was like, oh my God, we never had anything that
gave us that information about apodcaster, because I have
everything about you guys,because you guys come in and you
onboard, and the minute youonboard we look at your show and
then our algorithms and UI goesin and we create a dossier on
(30:40):
you automatically.
But I'm doing the same thing onthe store side, right, exactly,
and so that's how I can seewhat's going on, I can see why
things are going on and I have abetter chance of being able to
help the sale be made.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Fantastic.
Well, people can go to thewebsite.
I'll have it in the show notes.
Code ADX.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Code ADX.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
And I also know you have another business, tune
Genie, so I just want to talkabout that for a few seconds.
Right, so you still clearlystayed in with one foot in music
industry.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Yeah.
So when I stopped running radiostations, I started Tune Genie,
which is basically allowed,connected the radio station to
the music information so youcould see, you know the history
of what was played and thelyrics and all that kind of
stuff, and over the years itmorphed itself into a better way
to play the media itself.
(31:38):
So we're a media player barthat goes into the site and it
turns the media station siteinto a better experience, much
like an app does, and allows themedia to be played in ways that
you just can't normally get ina normal website the media to be
played in ways that you justcan't normally get in a normal
website.
But it's because of that.
Coming out of radio, Iunderstood how ads work and why
(32:01):
ads work.
And then, as I morphed intodigital technology as an
entrepreneur, I started to seewhat technology works and what
you know, what it doesn't.
Then I started to realize that,well, I see what's going on in
podcasting and from my salesfinancial experience back in
(32:25):
radio, I'm like, well, thisisn't going to work.
So we started working.
It's been a while and you knowwe started working on the
concept to solve the problem ofyou know how do you make money
with a handful of listeners?
Yeah, but they're differentbusinesses, but they have
relationship.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Appreciate you walking us through the past, the
present and I would argue thatCode ADX is the future, podcast
monetization and how everybodycan instantly start monetizing
as soon as you have an RSS feed,and I know that you're also
going to go into creator orYouTube.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Yeah, that's the thing I think.
Next week we're going torelease the ability.
You just come in with yourYouTube account, and that's
actually the big thing thesedays.
You know what is a podcast andI don't think a podcast is
necessarily defined by an RSSfeed.
I think a podcast is defined bythe content and the fact that
(33:33):
it's an authentic conversationin most cases, and it doesn't
matter where that conversationis.
Right now we're doing a videoversion.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Right, but I'll repurpose the audio right.
And then my other show alsoplays on Cumulus, and so I get a
tiny little check every monthfrom any app that were played on
that.
So yeah, so really it's funnybecause you just see this
symbiotic relationship betweenall different kinds of content.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
That's really what's going on.
You're seeing this blurring ofthe lines between the platform,
and so you start to realize it'snot about the platform, is it
YouTube or Spotify, is it videoor RSS feed or what it's about
my content and my content getsplayed in different places.
But that causes a whole otherfinancial problem, because, if
(34:30):
you want to, you know I'm anadvertiser and I want to support
you, or I want to tie into youraudience, but your audience is
consuming you on differentplatforms.
Those platforms have differentad capabilities.
Some are open, some are closed.
How do I get you?
(34:52):
Well, perfect way to do it isto you use a system like mine,
right, right, where you arebaking in the promotion into the
content itself, not into an adbreak.
So if that's really what we'reabout, so this is really
(35:12):
designed to let you monetize, nomatter where your content is.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
If you're a TikToker, youtuber, podcaster, it was
just easy for me to kind of kickthings off through podcasting
because of my history with meexploring this world so that
those listeners who are startingpodcasts or have podcasts and
(35:38):
need to really understand how tomonetize effectively can start
doing it now.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Thanks, codeadxcom.
If you're a podcaster and thenYouTuber Nav, just click on
podcaster and then get startedSign up.
Amazing, you'll be fine.
Awesome, thank you, jeffrey.
Thank you so much.
It's great to sign up.
Amazing, awesome, thank you,jeffrey.
Thank you so much, it's greatto see you Bye.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Likewise, to learn more about the Master of Science
in Digital Media Managementprogram, visit us on the web at
dmmuscedu.
Welcome to Mediascape insights from digital
changemakers, a speaker seriesand podcast brought to you by
USC Annenberg's Digital MediaManagement Program.
Join us as we unlock thesecrets to success in an
increasingly digital world.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I am thrilled to dive into one of my favorite topics
podcasting, but even better,monetization.
It's funny because a lot of ourstudents in the digital media
management program want to startpodcasts.
One thing I always get pushbackon is but how do you monetize?
And that is where JeffreySpector comes in.
(00:44):
Jeffrey, thank you for beinghere on Mediascape.
Thank you for having me.
Of course, let's talk a littlebit about what you've discovered
about monetization in thepodcast ecosystem.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Well, I think the biggest takeaway is that
unfortunately for theoverwhelming majority, which is
probably somewhere north of 95%of shows, they really can't make
money, and that's because thebusiness model is sort of broken
, unless you're a very big show.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
And that's really frustrating for everybody.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
My background is, you know, I ran radio stations
across the country, you know,from Boston to Los Angeles,
chicago, philadelphia.
Along the ways the companymerged and got bought and then
became a very big company thatturned into iHeart.
So I left sort of when iHeartcame in and started being an
(02:04):
entrepreneur in the space.
But along the way, you know,podcasting really grows out of
radio and as far as the businessmodel is concerned, it's using
radio's business model.
And that's actually what theproblem is, Because radio's
(02:25):
business model is a mass mediamodel where you're buying scale
of audience.
So traditionally it's basicallybought on a cost per thousand
CPM.
So if you're, you know everyonein podcasting, you know it's
like what CPM did you get?
And very few people realizethat the M in CPM is thousands.
(02:45):
So really what you're doing isyou're selling bundles of 1,000
people.
So if you got a $5 CPM, you got$5 for every 1,000 people you
have.
So since most podcasts struggleto get a thousand people,
(03:07):
there's your problem and I cango into more graphic detail.
But basically you know, that'sreally you know and that's why
all even get these reports allthe time the overwhelming
majority, I think it's.
I think they just came out withsomething that said the top 500
(03:28):
shows represented over 80% ofall the revenue.
It is crazy, and that's becausethe flip side of this is that
podcasting is, while it'swonderful and it works and
brands want to be in it, it isbrutally difficult to buy on
(03:52):
your own unless you have an adagency.
Yeah, so you have a flip sideon that side that only the
bigger brands are really usingpodcasts, because they're not
buying it unless they have anin-house expert or they have an
agency.
No agency is touching themunless they spend at least 50
grand to test it, and theoverwhelming majority of
(04:15):
businesses out there aren'tspending $50,000 to test drive
to see if a podcast work whenthey're struggling just to make
AdSense work work when they'restruggling just to make AdSense
work.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yeah, firsthand knowledge.
Of course I've had sponsors whoare smaller organizations, but
they didn't really know whatthey wanted out of sponsorship,
so you know they were expectingresults that were not what we
talked about.
It makes it difficult whenyou're an independent podcaster
to work sometimes with thosesponsors if they're directly
tying it into how many peopleare now clicking through and
purchasing my productimmediately.
(04:49):
Right, because it's all aboutcultivation, as all the touch
points which you also talkedabout before we jumped on push
record.
The other side is I am part ofan ad network and it's an
aggregator, but the kinds of adsthat go on it are the large
organizations the Chase,sapphire credit cards right, the
LinkedIn Learnings, theuniversities, the fast food
(05:13):
brands, right, the Canvas of theworld, companies that have a
lot of money to spend.
And even then I have to have alot of scale to really make it
worth my time to have ads on mypodcast.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Well, and there's a problem inside that you know,
one of those like Russian dollsyeah, doll and a doll and a doll
.
Well, this is that, thisconversation, because the what
you really sort of touched on,the advertisers you all listed
were basically brand advertisersand they're buying size of
audience.
Podcasting was actually reallybuilt, really got it off the
(05:52):
ground and the true success ofit is direct to consumer.
It's ability to move productright.
So use my promo code, you know,use this link, that kind of
stuff.
That's the sweet spot ofpodcasting.
And there's a whole big, youknow, and you're seeing a lot of
money come in on brand becausebasically, advertisers are
(06:12):
trying to treat the bigger showsor then aggregate a whole lot
of little shows together toequal what is, in essence, the
size of a radio station.
Yeah, exactly.
So they're putting a round pegin a square hole and there's a
lot of frustration on both sidesbecause they don't fit.
The biggest frustration is that, as I said, only the bigger
(06:37):
shows are making money Right.
Then for the little shows, it'svery difficult for that, for
these, the buyers in the media,to aggregate and find everybody.
So the whole system doesn'twork unless you have a big show.
Yeah, a very big show.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yeah, and can aggregate it.
I mean, that's definitely thebusiness model of the ad network
that I'm on.
You know I do have, becausewhat I'm finding is I joined and
now they're even acceptingpodcasts with smaller audience
sizes than mine because theyneed more scale.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
They do, right.
But at the end of the day, youknow, you as the content creator
, you're not.
You're still getting paid onthe cost per thousand, right, I
mean?
And so, and actually it is sougly, what happens because you
hear these quotes, oh, it's $20a thousand.
Well, let me tell you somethingit doesn't end up in your bank
(07:35):
at 20 bucks a thousand, right,exactly Because 20 bucks a
thousand, maybe it's at somepoint.
But then the sales organizationtook 30%, the targeting
organization took its cut.
There are like four or fivepeople sometimes.
And what I'm finding is, on mostof this kind of programmatic
(07:58):
where you just hook up yourcomputer to a computer and it
shoots the ads into you, at theend of the day you're lucky to
get, you know, five bucks athousand.
Usually it's somewhere belowfive dollars, a thousand to two,
three bucks a thousand.
And it doesn't matter, becauseif you know you have a decent
(08:20):
show and you have 3,000 people,that means 3,000 people.
Think about that.
I mean that would fill, youknow, new York City at all.
The Beacon Theater, right, thatwould fill the Beacon Theater,
right?
You have 3,000 people, episodeafter episode after episode, and
(08:41):
you're releasing once a week,month in month, you got a big
following and you still can'tmake any money.
Yeah, so these people, peopleneed to be paid on their
influence that's my wholeargument, not on their ability
to drive scale.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Well, I love that, and that also ties directly into
my little segue, which is thatit's not only about you get very
low CPMs when it comes down toit, but it's also about the
payout timeframe.
So I get paid for a quarter ata time.
It's ridiculous.
But I get paid right.
(09:18):
So March was a really, reallygood month, but I won't get paid
for March, April, May, untilthe end of September.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Well, again it goes back to the model of radio.
So when you're running a radiostation typically, or a TV
station or any type of massmedia, lots of times your
receivables are on and not youknow, they go out to 90 days
yeah, 120 sometimes.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, usually 45 to 90 days.
Yeah, 120, sometimes yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Usually 45 to 60 day.
What's happening is the clientmay be paying them, you know, 45
, 60 days, and then they taketheir yeah, and it's just
ridiculous.
I mean the other.
The real ugly truth is thatwhen they're talking about that
$20 CPM well, when it left.
When they're talking about that$20 CPM well, when it left,
(10:12):
it's like a truck pulls up tothe warehouse and then it gets
loaded and it leaves and whatgets dropped off is not what
gets loaded, because when itleft, meaning what was the
client willing to pay for thatsale?
It's probably more like closerto $75 to $80, as much as $100
for this right.
But then the first stop is thead agency.
They're taking probably half ofwhat the client is willing to
(10:37):
pay.
They're taking in fees and thenthey're also taking in
arbitrage.
They're playing arbitrage.
It's all kinds of games thatthey play, but the big picture
they're taking half of it.
Then it goes to the salesorganization, yeah, and they're
taking usually 30 to 40 percentat least.
And then on and on and on.
(10:58):
So when you're getting, youknow, five bucks, a thousand,
you know the guy that wrote thecheck to reach your listener.
They wrote the check, probably80 for 80 bucks and you got five
yeah exactly so.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
you've created something unique to the market
that changes that trajectory byspades.
So I'd love for you to talkabout what prompted you to
create Code80X.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
So, yeah, what we built is a marketplace, and I
define it as take Uber, a datingapp and an ad network and put
it in a blender.
That would be us.
So think of it more like adating app, where you have
brands on one side andpodcasters on the other or
content creators on the other,and they come in and the content
creator chooses what they wantto promote.
(11:55):
It's reverse, not the advertiserpicks the media and then the
creator, the podcaster, will gopromote.
We give them all the tools theyneed, all the information about
the brand and when they sign upto the system, they onboard
takes about a minute and theycreate a promo code traditional
(12:16):
podcast stuff and that promocode is tied to their show and
then when they go and apply todeals, they're accepted for a
deal 99% of them are accepted.
Their promo code is thenregistered at that store's
checkout and when they drive thecustomer, their listener, to
(12:37):
make a purchase, to use the codeto get the listener discount,
the podcaster or creator gets asales commission.
And that's the big difference.
They're not paid any type ofdelivery.
You know how much audiencethey're paid for actually being
the salesperson to deliver thesale, and the sales commission
is usually somewhere between 15%and 20%.
(12:59):
That's a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
That is, and you don't make people wait.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Oh no.
And the way our system works iswhy I say it's like Uber,
because the advertiser comes in,they list their deal, they put
their credit card down and theywait for people to ride, you
know, and when someone shows upwith the car, it makes a
purchase with the code.
We see it because we're insidetheir system and we charge their
(13:26):
credit card on the spot and payyou guys that night.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, let's share an example that I was just telling
you about.
You were texting me like hey,did you just you, just you know
buy something?
I was testing out one of mycodes because I registered for
code 80x.
I haven't used it.
I've had, you know, the linksin a few places, but now I'm
finally gonna record all the adsfor the show and for socials.
And one of my students wastalking about one of the brands
(13:52):
that's in your platform CozyEarth.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Cozy Earth, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Right and I said, oh, I have a code for you for that.
And so all my students werelike, yes, we want this code.
So I went in and I was like,let me test this.
And as soon as I purchasedsomething because I need some
stuff from Cozy Earth anyway youtexted me immediately and said
hey, did you just make thispurchase?
So that's how instantaneous itis and that's how fast you can
(14:19):
get, that's how quickly you getthe data.
So can you talk a little bitabout some of the shows that are
using your platform to fulleffect?
That might not have a bigaudience, but they have a big
enough audience that they'rereally.
You know, they have a dedicatedaudience that is purchasing.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Yeah, and so what's happened?
This stuff and we came out ofbeta in January and I'm finding
stuff every day and shows come,you know, people come in, you
know, and then they register andthen they kind of look at our
information.
We teach them what to do.
It's all online, it's very easy, but I'm seeing what works and
what doesn't and I'll reach outto them, all right.
So it's very easy, but I'mseeing what works and what
(14:57):
doesn't and I'll reach out tothem, all right.
So I'm getting differentexamples, but and I think I may
have talked about this before Ihave one podcaster.
He's tiny, he's got less than athousand downloads per episode
and I think he releases, youknow, once a week or so.
That's a relatively small show.
Okay, once a week or so, that'sa relatively small show, not
(15:19):
relatively, that's a very smallshow.
And this guy started sellinglike crazy.
He's selling these thingscalled Stan Shoes and Stan Shoes
are the.
They're really sort of builtfor nurses and even athletes who
are staying on their feet a lotor exercise, and they're really
cool, cutting edge, all thisstuff.
You go to the website.
(15:40):
It's got all the fancy stuff,award winning this and that, all
that stuff, right and all of asudden I'm just watching, it's
like, because I get same thingEvery time a sale comes through
we hook the system up to Slackand so I'm sitting there all day
long my phone, bing, and so I'msitting there all day long, my
phone.
So I see, so this guy isselling like crazy and I'm like
(16:01):
what's going on.
So I call him up and I'm likewhat are you doing?
And he said yeah, you know.
I said what kind of show areyou?
He goes well, I'm a classicrock podcaster.
I talk about classic rock.
I said well, wow, these aresort of more for nurses.
What are you telling youraudience?
(16:22):
He said I told them these areperfect to go watch concerts in.
Yeah, and that itself just kindof explains, I mean, when
people talk about targeting andfit and all that stuff.
I sort of just erased all ofthis because you had asked
(16:42):
before.
How I got into this is becauseI've been in this from the
beginning and I'm looking fromthe inside out what's not
working and everyone's spendingall their time on targeting and
attribution and what this guyjust did is what we built the
system to be.
It's like I'm going to marryyou or give you the ability to
figure out what brand you wantto talk about.
(17:04):
I'm going to give you all theinformation and make it really
easy for you to be able toarticulate it, and I'm going to
give you no rules.
You don't have to run this asan ad.
I prefer that it doesn't gointo an ad break.
I prefer that it's an authenticconversation you have with your
audience.
I'm going to give you variousways to do it.
It's up to you and you come upwith the positioning, and that's
(17:27):
what this guy did.
He just came.
I didn't tell him that, hey,this would be great if you
position this as great shoes togo see live music in.
He did it himself, yeah, and sothis guy has sold since March 1
, about $16,000 worth of shoes.
Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah.
(17:51):
So you know what's that he'smade.
He's getting close to $2,500.
He's made.
What's that he's made?
He's getting close to $2,500.
He's made he ain't making$2,500 on a 700 person podcast
that he releases once a week.
No, not under traditionaladvertising and I'm seeing other
examples.
Obviously, I'm seeing otherexamples like that.
(18:12):
So when it hits, it hits, and Ithink what we're sort of
stumbling on is kind of hit anerve, because everybody wants
to be able to monetize theircontent.
Nobody can make it work unlessthere are massive shows and if
you can't, great, go CPM allyour life long, but really no
one can how big your audience is.
(18:33):
Because yeah, that guy had 700listeners but he sold all that.
That $16,000 worth of salescame from, I think, about 130
people.
So it only took 130 people tobuy.
(18:55):
So the average sale there islike 110 bucks or something.
The average sale at Cozy Earthis right now is sitting about
$220 per purchase.
You're getting 15 to 20 percentcommission on that stuff and
your audience is getting a hugediscount too.
So the math just works.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Yeah, it really does, and it's the secret I don't
know.
It's a secret lever that I canpull when I'm talking about
podcasting and monetization withpeople.
I mean it's not so secret,right, but it's still your
relatively new company.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Yeah, Well, the dirty secret of the business is that.
I don't know if it's a dirtysecret, but this is exactly what
the ad agencies do.
So, and it's great thatpodcasting is starting to get
all this brand business and morepower to it.
It's got to be careful, becausewhat is killing radio could
(19:47):
also start to kill podcasts.
What's killing radio is notthat it's playing the wrong
music, all right.
It's playing the wrongcommercials and playing too many
of them.
Yeah, that's what's been killingradio for a long time.
And you're starting to see thishappen in podcasts, where there
are starting to be too manycommercials and they're the
(20:09):
wrong commercials.
And in podcasts it's even worsebecause you know, let's face it
, you're there in thisconversation and that's what
makes it work.
That's why it sells so good.
And all of a sudden, boom, youget some like.
Some interrupt, you interruptthe mood, exactly.
Yeah, all right.
That is probably the biggestbrick wall that podcasts is
(20:34):
heading towards.
That people are the top of thefood chain, are starting to
recognize.
Yeah, that's a problem, butit's going to continue to be a
much bigger problem in thefuture.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah.
So we have to be carefulstewards of our shows, how we're
monetizing, how we'reapproaching this, making sure
there are products or servicesthat we would use, even if we
haven't used them yet.
So that brings me to you workwith Shopify stores.
How do you vet the stores thatyou work with, because you know
(21:06):
that could be another issue.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Yeah.
So the way our system works isthat, as I said, you know, we're
like a dating app.
So they call the stores, thegirls, and we pull them all from
Shopify.
So if you're adirect-to-consumer advertiser,
it's pretty rare that you're noton Shopify.
All right, and so we built anapp that is in the Shopify store
(21:30):
.
So Shopify has an app ecosystem, like Apple does.
So the Shopify store gets to goin, look at and find our app,
install it in, and it's free forthem to install.
Okay, and they get to install,and then for them, it's a great
deal because this is all free.
No, it's all.
There's no risk.
(21:51):
So they get to be connected tothese advertisers.
It's like the Stan Shoes exampleI just told you about.
The only thing he has to payfor is the commission on the
sale after it's made.
This is 100% guaranteedadvertising return on investment
.
It's like the Holy Grail, right?
(22:11):
Even you could argue that.
Well, facebook and Googlethey're great, they may be
really good at what they do, butyou still have to put the money
up front.
Exactly, yeah, and there'sstill no guarantee that that
thing's going to work.
So if it didn't work, you lostthe money.
They'll keep going till you getthe click.
They're not going to keep, butthey're not guaranteed a sale.
I guarantee the sale, you thesale, I guarantee the sale.
(22:36):
You don't pay a penny unless.
So who isn't willing to pay?
Basically, what you're going topay, you know the waiter at a
restaurant to deliver the sale.
Yeah, so the way this works isand I'm sorry I'm rambling is
that you install the app and soanybody can install the app and
I will then see the store andI'll take a look at the store
and we also do outreach thestores.
There are a lot of stores.
I'll take a look at the storeand we also do outreach to the
stores.
There are a lot of stores Ijust don't let in the system
(22:57):
because I just don't feel theirproduct is worthy of being
promoted by our podcasters.
Wow, because their productisn't good, they're not selling
something unique.
So unless you have a productthat I feel, that we feel me and
my team, we feel that issomething that a podcaster can
talk about and there could be astory about it, then we don't
(23:19):
want it.
You know, I built this system.
I can have thousands andthousands of advertisers and
when I talk to some, you knowpartners and stuff that we work
with.
They're like oh, how many canyou put?
5,000?
Yeah, I could put 5,000 storiesin, but what good is that going
to do?
Right, it's too much, right?
Yeah, I'd rather have you knowthree to 500 really good stores.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yeah, because as the podcaster, we have to go through
all of the stores to look atwhat we feel is going to match
our vibe and our audience.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
We're releasing filters and then recommendations
for you.
Oh, okay, so we just didn't dothat yet, but that's coming yeah
.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Fantastic, so you bet them.
You're keeping it limited toproducts that you think will add
value.
Every single one of theseproducts has a discount for the
person who's purchasing and acommission for the podcaster or
the content creator, becauseyou're going to be expanding a
little bit.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Yeah Well.
So first of all, the discountis we ask the store to make sure
that the discount we give foryou guys to promote is the
highest discount, so there's nobigger discount.
So that's why if you go to CozyEarth, it's 41, not 40.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yeah, it's a very big discount.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
But, yeah, lots of times the discount we get is
substantially higher thananything that's out there.
I just need it to be the bestbecause I don't want there to be
code conflict and my peopledriving, their people showing up
and it's like, well, this codewas better, so I'm going to use
that instead, and then theydon't get the sale.
And if the store doesn't, youknow, can't commit to that
understanding, then you know,then this isn't right for them.
(25:08):
But the flip side of this isthey're getting just so much, in
essence, free media value.
I mean an enormous.
I mean I'm bringing themhundreds of podcasters.
They're all talking about themall day long and they're all
talking about them to theiraudiences, and these are
audiences that in a millionyears they would never be able
to reach.
Yeah For cozy.
Who doesn't?
Speaker 2 (25:28):
need sheets Exactly.
Sheets, towels, pajamas, socks,tote bags they have a lot of
different things.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Yeah, I sell them for an advertisement.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
So if anybody's listening and they do want to
purchase and you go to the store, put in YBA as your promo code
and you'll get discount off thevault.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Have you, even though it's a relatively new product,
your platform that is?
Do you have any people who'veconnected who aren't happy on
the store side?
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Not really.
No, I mean I get them callingme up saying what can I do to
get more activity?
How can I get them to pick me?
You know that kind of stuffwhich we're going to come out
with ways for them to have someoptions to do that.
I had one bizarre situation Ihad actually they email it today
(26:23):
, this company, they sellnon-alcoholic drinks and
somebody made a sale yesterdayand then they uninstalled.
It's rare when someoneuninstalls we see everything.
So I get a hold of them and hesaid, oh no, no, it's nothing.
We got bought by a big companyand we're not allowed to use
(26:46):
podcasts unless our lawyersreview them first.
And it was too much to havethem involved.
And I said, yeah, I get it.
Fine, that's the only time I'veheard anything.
No, it's been great.
I mean, you know, I've gottennice.
You know thank yous from thestand Cozy Earth others there's.
You know there's anotheradvertiser that we're starting
(27:09):
to sell a lot of Eric Javits'hats High-end hat Melania Trump
awarded at the inauguration.
But you know I'm coming up to.
You know I probably sold aboutover $7,000 worth of his hats
recently from just a couple ofpodcasters.
So yeah, we're starting to seethe pockets.
(27:30):
We're starting to see whatworks, why it works, how it
works.
We're bottling it and thenwe're distributing it out to all
the podcasters.
Hey, this is what Johnny did.
He just made this.
I see you're doing that.
That's really a big.
What I'm really sort of learnedhere is that I can connect you
guys and you'll do okay, but ifI can connect you and then share
(27:53):
the secrets, then everyone doesreally.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
That's our secret sauce right now.
We built this kind of connecteddots and that's how I knew what
you did.
I mean, the minute a sale goesthrough, I see it, I see I can
go in, I can look at yourtranscript, I can listen to it,
I can see your keywords, I cansee your social activity and I
can go.
This is why you made the sale.
(28:18):
This is why I didn't make thesale Today.
I had someone did that.
They sold a bunch of these hatsand what I found out was they
sold a bunch of these hats for200 bucks 250 a sale.
And what they did is they putthe link in their show notes,
but they put the wrong link in.
Oh no, they didn't put the link.
(28:40):
So we give you the link withthe code embedded.
Yeah, so you can put it in yourshow notes and say, hey, use
code.
You know, jeff at blah blahblah.
But to make it easy for you,you can look at my show notes
and click on the link.
It will take them there andautomatically fill your code.
But they put the wrong link inand I see people making that
(29:01):
mistake.
So I sent them a note.
Do the right link, you'll sellmore.
I really don't think anyone'sreally had a system where they
I'm certainly the advertisingagency and the media at the same
time.
So I'm tracking both sides andI'm watching both sides and I'm
(29:21):
sharing that information toenhance the commission
capability.
Yeah, both sides win.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
It's really transformative because you are
being super transparent andhonest and ethical in the way
that you're approaching this.
You have all the data.
So it's great that you have thedata from all the different
sides and you can see exactlywhat pinpoint, exactly what's
working, because that's notnecessarily something we see in
traditional digital media bias.
(29:48):
It's funny to use the wordtraditional and digital, but you
know what I'm saying.
So, yeah, advertising and theseother methods, you get some of
the data, but you don't knowalways exactly.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
They can't.
I see the round trip.
I was meeting I'll leave thenames out but I was meeting with
the chairman of one of the bigname ad agencies that is
responsible for an enormousamount of podcast advertising,
and I'm showing this person thisand I showed him some of this
(30:20):
stuff and he was like, oh my God, we never had anything that
gave us that information about apodcaster, because I have
everything about you guys,because you guys come in and you
onboard, and the minute youonboard we look at your show and
then our algorithms and UI goesin and we create a dossier on
(30:40):
you automatically.
But I'm doing the same thing onthe store side, right, exactly,
and so that's how I can seewhat's going on, I can see why
things are going on and I have abetter chance of being able to
help the sale be made.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Fantastic.
Well, people can go to thewebsite.
I'll have it in the show notes.
Code ADX.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Code ADX.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
And I also know you have another business, tune
Genie, so I just want to talkabout that for a few seconds.
Right, so you still clearlystayed in with one foot in music
industry.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Yeah.
So when I stopped running radiostations, I started Tune Genie,
which is basically allowed,connected the radio station to
the music information so youcould see, you know the history
of what was played and thelyrics and all that kind of
stuff, and over the years itmorphed itself into a better way
to play the media itself.
(31:38):
So we're a media player barthat goes into the site and it
turns the media station siteinto a better experience, much
like an app does, and allows themedia to be played in ways that
you just can't normally get ina normal website the media to be
played in ways that you justcan't normally get in a normal
website.
But it's because of that.
Coming out of radio, Iunderstood how ads work and why
(32:01):
ads work.
And then, as I morphed intodigital technology as an
entrepreneur, I started to seewhat technology works and what
you know, what it doesn't.
Then I started to realize that,well, I see what's going on in
podcasting and from my salesfinancial experience back in
(32:25):
radio, I'm like, well, thisisn't going to work.
So we started working.
It's been a while and you knowwe started working on the
concept to solve the problem ofyou know how do you make money
with a handful of listeners?
Yeah, but they're differentbusinesses, but they have
relationship.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Appreciate you walking us through the past, the
present and I would argue thatCode ADX is the future, podcast
monetization and how everybodycan instantly start monetizing
as soon as you have an RSS feed,and I know that you're also
going to go into creator orYouTube.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Yeah, that's the thing I think.
Next week we're going torelease the ability.
You just come in with yourYouTube account, and that's
actually the big thing thesedays.
You know what is a podcast andI don't think a podcast is
necessarily defined by an RSSfeed.
I think a podcast is defined bythe content and the fact that
(33:33):
it's an authentic conversationin most cases, and it doesn't
matter where that conversationis.
Right now we're doing a videoversion.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Right, but I'll repurpose the audio right.
And then my other show alsoplays on Cumulus, and so I get a
tiny little check every monthfrom any app that were played on
that.
So yeah, so really it's funnybecause you just see this
symbiotic relationship betweenall different kinds of content.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
That's really what's going on.
You're seeing this blurring ofthe lines between the platform,
and so you start to realize it'snot about the platform, is it
YouTube or Spotify, is it videoor RSS feed or what it's about
my content and my content getsplayed in different places.
But that causes a whole otherfinancial problem, because, if
(34:30):
you want to, you know I'm anadvertiser and I want to support
you, or I want to tie into youraudience, but your audience is
consuming you on differentplatforms.
Those platforms have differentad capabilities.
Some are open, some are closed.
How do I get you?
(34:52):
Well, perfect way to do it isto you use a system like mine,
right, right, where you arebaking in the promotion into the
content itself, not into an adbreak.
So if that's really what we'reabout, so this is really
(35:12):
designed to let you monetize, nomatter where your content is.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
If you're a TikToker, youtuber, podcaster, it was
just easy for me to kind of kickthings off through podcasting
because of my history with meexploring this world so that
those listeners who are startingpodcasts or have podcasts and
(35:38):
need to really understand how tomonetize effectively can start
doing it now.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Thanks, codeadxcom.
If you're a podcaster and thenYouTuber Nav, just click on
podcaster and then get startedSign up.
Amazing, you'll be fine.
Awesome, thank you, jeffrey.
Thank you so much.
It's great to sign up.
Amazing, awesome, thank you,jeffrey.
Thank you so much, it's greatto see you Bye.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Likewise, to learn more about the Master of Science
in Digital Media Managementprogram, visit us on the web at
dmmuscedu.
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