In this episode, I am joined by Kristi Olsen, Founder & Chief Strategy Officer at Beginly Health, an innovative new digital platform for physician recruitment. Kristi has a wealth of knowledge in the physician recruitment space, having successfully recruited hundreds of physicians for a regional health system for the first many years of her career. This episode is critical, as recruitment is one of the things we hear repeatedly from administrators, physician owners and CEO’s as a pain point.
Kristi and I discuss the use of technology in recruitment, the demographics and communication styles of the generation of physicians coming out of residency now, and how medical groups can position themselves to be successful with recruiting and retaining high quality physicians. Kristi's company, Beginly Health is here: https://beginlyhealth.com/employers and you can reach Kristi at: kristi@beginlyhealth.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
It's such a good question.
(00:01):
Yeah, traditional recruitmentmethods are a little antiquated,
I think is the kind way ofputting it.
Much of that is based in buyingcontact information of
physicians, you know, lists fromvarious sources, and then
putting that in the hands of therecruiters to just do all the
cold outreach, the inundation ofthe inbox and the phone and text
messages and the whole deal.
And so that's kind of theexisting way of doing it or
(00:24):
using agencies to deploy asimilar method on your behalf,
posting jobs on job boards, thatkind of thing.
But it's definitely not, itdoesn't favor the physician
approach.
And, you know, years of workingclosely with resident physicians
and just physician job seekersin general, as well as hiring
and leading teams of recruiters,I was like, this is not syncing
up.
This is not a thoughtfulapproach for highly trained,
(00:46):
highly educated physicians.
SPEAKER_01 (00:48):
Welcome to Medical Money Matters, the podcast where
you can find experts, answers,and resources to so that you can
achieve mastery over thefinancial and business aspects
of your practice.
Well, hello, everyone.
Welcome.
I am joined today by ChristyOlson, founder and chief
(01:09):
strategy officer at BeginlyHealth, which is an innovative
new digital platform forphysician recruitment.
Christy has a wealth ofknowledge in the physician
recruitment space, havingsuccessfully recruited hundreds
of physicians for a regionalhealth system that she and I
share as alumni, same healthsystem we both grew up in.
(01:30):
And she did that for the firstmany years of her career.
So I am excited that she's herewith us today as recruitment is
one of the things I hearrepeatedly from administrators,
physician owners, and CEOs.
So Christy, welcome.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm delighted that you're here.
Well, let's just jump right inbecause Beginly really
(01:52):
emphasizes a physician-ledapproach to job matching.
And so I'm curious to hear fromyou how this differs from
traditional recruitment methodsand then what advantages it
offers both physicians andmedical groups.
That's such a good
SPEAKER_00 (02:22):
question.
kind of thing, but it'sdefinitely not, it doesn't favor
the physician approach.
(02:43):
And years of working closelywith resident physicians and
just physician job seekers ingeneral, as well as hiring and
leading teams of recruiters, Iwas like, this is not syncing
up.
This is not a thoughtfulapproach for highly trained,
highly educated physicians.
It just felt, didn't feel goodfor me.
So we took a step back and said,hey, what if we thought about
(03:03):
this in a similar way as adating app, right?
Tell me about you, physician,what's important to you
clinically, but also in yourpersonal life, professionally.
And then we will go use ourmatching algorithm to tell you
what positions might be good foryou based on the things that
you're telling me about you.
So really putting the control inthe hands of the physician.
And then to take it a stepfurther, you know, even after we
(03:26):
match and bring these thingsforward to them, we give them
the opportunity to review thejobs in detail and then further
make the decision about aboutwhether talking to a recruiter
or a hiring professional withthat organization is interesting
to them.
So they get to make the decisionabout releasing their contact
info as well.
So it's really, we want them totell us about themselves and
we'll go tell them where thesethings exist.
(03:46):
That lineup is good fits.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:49):
So refreshing.
Thank you.
And it also sounds like itreally is designed to honor the
time of both parties, actually.
You know, the physician that'slooking for a new role, they can
be really focused about that.
And the groups that arerecruiting too, it really helps.
Not the shotgun approach, right?
It's much more targeted andfocused.
(04:10):
I love it.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (04:11):
There's definitely an efficiency play there.
You know, it's lettingtechnology, thoughtfully
deploying technology to bringsome efficiency to what is
otherwise a not efficientprocess, I guess you could say.
But yeah, so satisfaction andefficiency all in one.
That's the goal.
SPEAKER_01 (04:25):
Wonderful.
Wonderful.
SPEAKER_00 (04:27):
Well,
SPEAKER_01 (04:28):
I'd love to take a step back and kind of plumb some
of your experience in theindustry to think about the role
of external recruiters.
So for our audience, when shoulda medical group consider
partnering with an externalrecruiter?
And then what criteria shouldthey use to really think about
selecting the right partner?
(04:50):
Other than 1-800-CALL-CHRISTIE,right?
SPEAKER_00 (04:55):
Because that's a good one.
(05:20):
on association websites orwhatever, but you do often end
up having to tap an agency.
And so I will just say that someare better than others.
And if I were looking at anagency, I would look for one
that had more of a regionalaccountability.
So you're not, if you're basedhere in Oregon, you're not
hiring a team that's based outof New York that doesn't
understand the culture of thevibes of the market.
(05:41):
And also, these agencies havebasically these CRMs full of
physician names and they tend tobe fairly regionally centric.
And so tapping into somebody whohas that is important.
But I would, before doinganything with external, the
power of referrals can't beunderstated.
And so making sure that you'vereally deployed your existing
(06:04):
physicians in your clinic to taptheir networks, to make sure
they're telling people aboutthese openings, I would just
really start there.
Potentially even localassociations, their career
fairs, that kind of thing.
I would go there first.
And then again, agencies, theyvary.
And so you're just like, alittle secret is you can do a
contingency arrangement or youcan do a retained arrangement
(06:27):
right and so if you're willingto pay in a retained model or
you give them a little bit upfront you're going to get more
they're going to dedicate moretime to your job so it's a
little scary to outlay cash upfront because there still is no
guarantee that they're going tofind you somebody but at least
you can semi guarantee they'regoing to give you a little bit
more attention
SPEAKER_01 (06:43):
Got it.
SPEAKER_00 (06:44):
Got it.
SPEAKER_01 (06:45):
Great advice.
I love it.
Well, you talked a little bitabout the sort of regional
specificity, which is greataudience and also the vibe.
And I think about that, youknow, like Pacific Northwest is
a very different, you know,professional vibe and work vibe
from, say, the East Coast or theSouth.
So that's, I think, really greatadvice.
And that's a wonderful segue forus to think about organizational
(07:09):
culture.
So, you know, sort of regionalculture, but then also
organizational cultures.
So talk a little bit about howclinics can effectively
highlight their culture andvalues to attract physicians
that are really gonna be a goodfit.
SPEAKER_00 (07:25):
Yeah, I think this is so important and it's often
overlooked.
I think, you know, so manyorganizations start at the top
of like, we're gonna attractpeople with big salaries and big
sign on bonuses and that kind ofthing.
And listen, like some of thisstuff is table stakes anymore,
but really showcasing theculture in the clinic is going a
really long way.
It's hard to do in a jobdescription.
(07:46):
You can try.
And we try to build it in ourtool opportunities for there to
be a better storytelling moment.
But, you know, I think whenphysicians come in for site
visits, being able to show, Iwas just talking to one of our
friends, mutual friends, who'sbeen a physician leader for a
long time about this and that,so much of it is if you're a
younger physician coming in,that they can look around and
(08:07):
say, oh, this is a, you withyoung children or that just sort
of like they're on the same pageas me.
There's definitely sort of a oldschool mentality as it comes to
the way that physicianspractice.
Older physicians tend to saylike, I can't believe anybody
wants to work partial schedulesand they don't want to work 80
hour weeks.
(08:27):
And so there's a little bit ofthis layer of judgment about the
newer generation of physicians.
But you know what?
It's almost everybody coming outof training wants to practice in
a way that allows them to have alife.
And so being able to showcasethat when people come in for
visits and when you're talkingto them on the phone is
incredibly important.
Being accommodating to thatreality will go
SPEAKER_01 (08:47):
a really, really long way.
That's fantastic.
Well, it's great advice too tothink about if you're the
administrator or the physicianin charge of the recruiting is
to really think about, you know,what, what is the vibe that your
group gives off?
And if you have mostly, youknow, the old guard that, as you
say, or, you know, well, I hadto work 80 hours a week through
(09:08):
residency.
Everybody else should too, youknow, that, that isn't going to
sell it to the new generationcoming out.
SPEAKER_00 (09:14):
Yeah.
Nor is it going to lead to, youknow, long-term retaining of
them either, which I'm surewe'll get to at some point, but
it's, I think there's a tendencybecause recruitment is really
hard right now to just sort ofdo whatever you can to get
somebody in the door.
And ultimately that's not goingto drive that satisfaction on
either side.
So really emphasizing theculture of practice and And
(09:36):
often, you know, what's reallyinteresting, too, is I think
sometimes clinics don't evenreally know or groups don't even
really know what their cultureis.
Like, what is it about theculture of our group that we
want to emphasize?
And so doing a little bit ofthat before you start hiring and
what kind of person really do wewant to join this group can go a
long way because I think thatgets sort of passed over.
It's just let's just go findsomebody and then you can, you
(09:56):
know, that can lead to mismatch,too.
SPEAKER_01 (09:58):
That is also a great insight.
When our group does strategicplanning, we actually spend time
on mission, vision, values.
And we'll go back to the groupand say, if you already have
them, let's go back and checkout, do they still resonate for
you?
And do we ratify these and moveon?
Or do we want to make somechanges?
And the very next thing we talkabout is their culture.
(10:18):
And we say, what is yourculture?
And there's always a little bitof quiet after we ask that
question.
People sit in their chairfrequently.
SPEAKER_00 (10:25):
And would everybody say the same thing?
Yeah.
Yeah, well, we
SPEAKER_01 (10:29):
put it up on a flip chart.
So it's like, let's at least tryto get, you know, some
consistency in this room if wehave all the leaders.
For sure.
But frequently, and I'm sure yousee this in practices too,
culture sort of happens byhappenstance.
It's sort of accidental.
And frequently it's driven by ifthere are one or two, you know,
big personalities in the group,that tends to drive the culture
(10:49):
too.
And maybe not exactly where youwant it to go.
So it's lovely to get someclarity on what do you want the
culture to be?
UNKNOWN (10:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (10:58):
I think
SPEAKER_00 (10:59):
it's also one other piece is that what's unique
about, I think, culture is thatit's not like organizationally
organized.
there's not always a culture.
I mean, there can be sort of themission, you know, values, et
cetera.
But I mean, I rememberrecruiting for a large health
system and having 40, 45different primary care clinics,
(11:19):
each of which had their ownculture.
And so being really thoughtfulabout that too, that, you know,
interviewing at different placescan really mean something very
different to people becausethey're going to get a
completely different vibe.
So, you know, just being awareof that, I think is super
important.
SPEAKER_01 (11:33):
And that's a great point.
In the larger groups as well,there's always sort of that
overarching culture and the sortof what we say our mission and
vision and values are.
And each location really doeshave its own, you know, those
are the people you hang out withminute by minute, hour by hour,
day by day.
And so that, yeah, that reallycan have very different flavors
from one location to the next.
(11:53):
So, yeah.
Well, I would love to thinkabout, you know, sort of the end
of the recruitment process andkind of think about sealing the
deal.
So in your experience, what arethe key factors that influence a
physician's decision Yeah, it'sso
SPEAKER_00 (12:17):
interesting talking about this because I think when
I first started my, you know,physician recruitment journey,
it was all about comp.
it really did feel like, okay,whoever can be the most
competitive with, you know, thepackage they're putting forward.
And it's just not that anymore.
I will, you know, with the largecaveat that there's some
specialty nuance to this, thatsometimes that really is a
(12:39):
driving force.
But, you know, if we're thinkingabout maybe just, you know,
especially primary care, I'lltell you, and I think I probably
told you the story that I wasjust working with a senior
resident and she opted fortaking a role with an FQHC
because the things that weremost important to her were
patient populations that she wasserving, ability to speak
(13:00):
Spanish in the clinic, andhaving some teaching
opportunities.
And as I was coaching herthrough this process, I said,
you know, you're leaving about$100,000 on the table.
And she said, yeah, I know.
And she's intentionally makingthat choice.
And so sealing the deal willlook different for everybody.
And when I'm talking todifferent practices, I emphasize
(13:22):
the fact that Put your best footforward as far as compensation
is concerned.
Do what you can.
Be competitive if you can be.
And then emphasize the otherthings in clinic, the clinical
support tools.
Do you have AI scribing?
Do you have inbox managementtools?
What's your nurse to physicianratio?
How much time are physiciansspending after they see patients
(13:43):
in the EMR and documentingstuff?
So really painting a picture ofthe lifestyle that they can have
in the clinic is going to go areally long way.
And so you can really make Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (14:21):
I love it.
Well, you and I talked aboutthis a little bit earlier, and I
wonder if you could comment alittle bit on the, although it's
not all compensation, whengroups make an offer to a
physician, how they can packagethat in a way that it's easily
understandable, especially if itincludes work RVUs or something
(14:42):
like that.
I both know a lot of physiciansdon't really understand.
So what would you say to groupsthat want to package something
that's easily understandable?
SPEAKER_00 (14:51):
I would take the time to walk people through it.
I think a lot of people justmake the assumption that
physicians, and especiallydoctors, folks coming out of
training, that they understandit at all.
And they really don't.
Often, the first time they seean offer will be the first time
they see the term work RVU.
And so making them feel likethey actually understand what
(15:12):
their role is as it pertains tothe comp that they're going to
see is really important.
I think being able to spell outother opportunities for them to
earn additional income if that'simportant to them.
But yeah, I mean, just...
not assuming that they know whatyou're talking about will go a
long way and spending the timeto make them feel like, okay, I
get this.
I understand how I can play arole in this particular practice
(15:36):
and how I influence my owncompensation.
And then one other thing, andthis is funny because I know it
to be true, but one of ourresident advisors was talking to
us about when he took his job asa cardiologist and he was saying
that his ultimate decision camedown to the fact that he was
made to feel very special And Iget it.
(15:56):
It's like this red carpet thing.
Some groups are really good insome secrets for hiring people.
It's like assign a physicianleader to call these folks, tell
them how much they enjoyed theinterview.
This red carpet thing reallygoes a long way.
Don't make them feel likethey're dime a dozen or like
that, you know, we have tons ofpeople to consider that doesn't
(16:19):
really work, especially if youdon't.
But really, we can see you inthis clinic and making them feel
special thing.
Obviously, they haven't had alot of that throughout the
course of their training.
And so bringing that forward andbeing really responsive and
thoughtful will go a
SPEAKER_01 (16:39):
literally, and this is, again, a little old school,
put together a packet that theycould give to the candidate that
was something they could takewith them that had information
about the clinic, mission,vision, values, all of that, a
little bit of who we are, andthen some local information if
the candidate was coming fromout of town.
So those are things I thinksometimes We forget as we're
(17:04):
busy administrators runningaround trying to coordinate a
visit for a candidate.
And we forget to do the giftwrap part of it.
When you give the gift, thepackaging has to be a part of
it.
I always like to say to ourconsulting team, it's a little
bit of theater, but it'simportant.
SPEAKER_00 (17:20):
Yeah.
And you kind of think that itwouldn't be that important.
And, but it's been, it's beendefinitely verbalized a couple
of times in the last year and I,so anyway, it's worth
mentioning, but, and even just,you know, if you're a smaller
group, I think that stuff reallydoes go an extra long way
because to know that the largerentities are doing stuff like
that, you know, goodie bags athotel rooms and, you know, they
(17:43):
have obviously more resources,but anyway, so yeah, try to, try
to compete in the soft stufftoo.
SPEAKER_01 (17:50):
It's not terribly expensive to make a gift basket
land in a hotel room.
Yeah, that's great.
That is great advice.
Well, and that sort of leadsinto thinking about retention,
you know, and once you get thesecandidates here, you do all this
work, you go to all the expense.
So beyond recruitment, whatstrategies do you recommend to
your clients to ensure long-termretention of physicians?
SPEAKER_00 (18:13):
Yeah, and it's interesting in my last role, we
didn't have a big hand in theretention, but My purview comes
from the people that I did talkto and why they were looking for
jobs, right?
And why they left.
And I think we're hearing a lot,and I've referenced this
already, but this newergeneration of physician is,
again, their entire identity isnot being a doc.
(18:34):
It's not, many of them will,their family first or their
hobby first or whatever it mightbe.
And so recognizing that, firstof all, building room in in the
way that you run the practice toaccommodate that.
Again, I see so many groupsthrow money like oh at the end
of two years you'll get thisretention bonus and I just don't
(18:56):
that's just not it that's just Ithink it's a part of it if
you're behind in comp and it'skind of a leveling thing but
it's really the ability to makea physician in your group feel
like they have a say thatthey're heard and you know again
the camaraderie if that's whatthey're looking for it's so much
more about the other stuff withthis newer group than it is
about throwing money on aproblem so that feels a little
(19:19):
bit vague but I mean I thinkevery group knows what they what
they should be leveraging withintheir clinic.
And it goes back to also, Ithink you and I have talked
about this before, is likehiring the right people in the
beginning will also yield betterretention.
And because it is so hard torecruit, it's easy to just hire.
And I think that's okay if youcan also understand that that
(19:43):
may lead to more turnover later,but really focusing on the
things that will make a reallygood physician in your group and
then looking for that personshould sort of in and of itself
support the retention.
SPEAKER_01 (19:54):
Well, to your point, hiring the right person, it
loves about our advances intechnology.
And I think your your platformat Beginly is a great example of
taking something, taking sometechnology like dating site,
dating websites and matchingalgorithms that we know about
and applying that in thebusiness setting and in the
health care setting.
So I'd love to hear yourthoughts on how technology
(20:17):
enhances the recruitment processand then, you know, what
organizations should be lookingfor in terms of recruitment
technology.
I
SPEAKER_00 (20:26):
mean, more and more things are coming out, you know,
TBD on whether they last, youknow, I mean, technology is,
it's funny because whiletechnology, the space really
needs new technology, it's alsoan audience that's a little bit
resistant to technology.
Oh,
SPEAKER_01 (20:43):
healthcare is eons behind with all of our
technology.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (20:47):
There's always this, like, you have to be careful
what you say.
Yeah.
(21:10):
I always say like how manypeople in their 20s have ever
made a dinner reservation viaphone call?
There's this sort of reluctanceto get on the phone to learn
about things.
They would much rather learnabout things, do their own
research, and then talk tosomebody when they have to.
So that was kind of theintention of Beginling is like
create a space whereorganizations can do that
(21:31):
storytelling and take a momentto– be okay with that reality of
the audience that they'reattracting and be transparent.
This is something that I thinkis really missing in this
industry right now is thependulum sort of swung from one
end to the end of being as vagueas possible so that you're sort
(21:51):
of like dangling this carrot,but nobody wants that.
I wouldn't even want that,right?
I'm a physician.
I loosely know what I'm lookingfor.
Tell me the details and thenallow me to make a decision, a
thoughtful decision based on thedetails of your role.
And so anyway, I think whenyou're looking at technologies,
it's important to think aboutthe customer or the end user.
(22:15):
And otherwise the technology isjust a technology solving,
trying to solve something that,you know, or adding to an
already troublesome.
I mean, there's a lot of stuffin the recruitment space right
now that's trying to pinpointIt's all about pipeline as
trying to pinpoint the bestdoctor for your job based on a
series of things.
But it's not addressing theengagement part.
(22:37):
Because if you really thinkabout what's happening in this
industry, because so many peoplewith this shortage, so many
people are after the same smallpipeline of people.
Inboxes are flooded.
Phones are flooded.
And as such, everybody, thesephysicians are just deleting
everything.
And so teeing up a solution thatjust gives you a more
pinpointed, names doesn'tactually get you on the other
(23:00):
side of the problem, which islike getting people to see you
or pay attention to you.
And so I think that's just sortof the great reckoning in the
space right now is whoever canget on the other side of the
engagement dilemma is reallywhere we're at.
Got it.
Got it.
Well,
SPEAKER_01 (23:14):
yeah.
And having the technology thatdoes the matching, again, seems
to be really respectful of theirtime and not flooding their
inbox.
So,
SPEAKER_00 (23:30):
yeah.
whether it's search engineoptimization or whatever it may
be, it's expensive to be seenanymore.
And it's also expensive to be ona lot of the existing tools.
(23:53):
And so as a small group, you'resort of like, what am I supposed
to do to make myself show up?
You can Google family medicinein any given area and you're
going to see the biggestplayers, the ones who are
spending the most money to showup.
And while that's Fine if youunderstand that.
That's also quite limiting ifyou're a smaller group because
the reality is many of thesephysician job seekers are
(24:16):
actually looking for the sort ofopportunity that an independent
group has to offer, but theywould never know that those
groups are hiring.
And so, yeah, bringing someequity to the process is
important to us.
A little bit of leveling theplaying field.
And it's a leveling of theplaying field because if you can
really think about like, this isactually about the physician and
(24:36):
what they want, not about theemployer and how much money
they're spending.
It matters to see all thethings, right?
It's important for the ecosystemof healthcare.
So yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (24:45):
I love the egalitarianism Yeah, that's
fantastic.
Well, let's shift gears a littlebit and talk about what
everybody's talking about, whichis physician burnout and
thinking about, you know, thatis a significant concern for the
market.
And it's this is probably alittle bit of a given, but think
(25:05):
a little bit about how therecruitment process can be
brought to bear.
on that burnout.
And as you and I said, we weretalking earlier, you know,
burnout is the reason thenpeople call you, right?
It's like, okay, I've gotphysicians leaving or a lot of
early retirements, which we'restill seeing in the market, you
know, all that's happening.
So how do you think aboutburnout in the physician world?
SPEAKER_00 (25:26):
I just, I think about burnout a lot because, I
mean, I think everybody'sthinking about burnout a lot in
the physician space, but Justwatching sort of this trend of
physicians backing FTE down, youknow, there aren't a lot of
physicians, I don't think,working full schedules right
now.
And, you know, when you talk tothem, many of them say, it's not
(25:46):
because I don't like to workhard.
It's because I don't,especially, you know, I think
about the primary care spaceversus sort of like space where
every day you're walking to thesame clinic and you've got, I
don't know, 18 to 25, 30patients on your schedule.
UNKNOWN (26:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:02):
every single day.
I mean, I think anybody, ifthat's what you did every day,
you'd start getting burned outand the heaviness of the work.
I mean, lay that on top.
And so I just think, I think alot about the physician
workforce shifting away fromwanting to do that full-time,
same thing every day, all day,and looking to diversify the way
(26:24):
that they flex their skill sets.
And I think it's reallyimportant.
So, you know, We don't wantpeople leaving medicine
altogether.
So if you can accommodateallowing people to have a mix of
responsibility, I think that'sgoing to go a long way.
But ultimately, too, so much ofburnout, I think, starts at the
very beginning in therecruitment process.
(26:46):
And I've said this a couple oftimes, but everyone is quite
desperate to hire and willmake...
And I hate to say this, butthere's lots of times people
will say, we just need a pulse.
You know what I mean?
And it's like, okay, I get it.
And you can do that.
You can recruit in that way, butdon't anticipate people sticking
(27:06):
around for very long.
So I feel like a lot of burnoutcan be addressed by...
A lot of the things we'vealready talked about in this is
that...
Identifying what's important toyour group, like what a good fit
actually looks like, and reallybeing thoughtful about hiring
that kind of person.
And then thinking aboutorganizationally how much
flexibility you have to meetpeople where they are can really
kind of aid in that burnout.
SPEAKER_01 (27:29):
Yeah.
That's really insightful.
I mean, you know, the statisticsare pretty staggering.
And it seems like most everyonewho worked through the pandemic
and is still practicing, I agreewith you, they've turned down
the volume a little bit.
They're still in it.
And so many early retirements,you know, and I just on the one
hand, I think.
(27:50):
hats off to you and good for youfor taking care of your own
health.
And I worry about our industrystill that we're in this
recovery mode and it doesn'tfeel like we're coming out of
that all that fast.
SPEAKER_00 (28:02):
Yeah.
Oh, I agree.
Yep.
And we're not, we're nottraining more people than we
used to.
And so figuring out how tosupport the, you know, the folks
that are coming out is reallyimportant, but I, you know, we
look at the day on our tool too.
And it's like, one of thequestions we ask is, how much
they want to work.
I'm going to send some ifthey're coming out gung-ho.
And the majority of the peoplewho are answering that question
(28:23):
do not select full-time.
SPEAKER_01 (28:25):
Interesting.
Okay.
Well, that's excellent for ouraudience to know then, you know,
if you're, if you're searchingfor someone who wants to work
full time, get, get really clearabout what that means in your
group, because every group has aslightly different definition of
full time.
And then understand that youmight be passing up on some
really good candidates thatmight only want, you know, 0.8
or 0.75 or something like that.
SPEAKER_00 (28:46):
Or figure out how to make full time be a four day
work week or something likethat.
That would
SPEAKER_01 (28:51):
also, a lot of people are doing that.
32 hours a week you know patientcare time and then you're still
responsible to get all yourcharting done you know and so
maybe that happens on your youknow your quote day off or your
day not in the office but that'sfantastic well how about
thinking a little bit back toour kind of our conversations
(29:11):
about culture and howorganizations can really set
themselves up for success inrecruiting one of the other
topics we hear about a lot wecould talk about a lot is
transparency and so I'm curiousto hear from you about how
transparency and job roles andexpectations and organizational
challenges.
Not that we want to hang out allthe dirty laundry, but to talk
(29:33):
about that and how that impactsthe recruitment process and then
subsequently candidatesatisfaction.
Yeah.
I mean,
SPEAKER_00 (29:41):
we said this a little bit too about what people
want to read.
They want to see all the things.
I often say to the folks thatare building out their jobs and
our tool that whatever Yeah.
(30:25):
But yeah, I don't, you know,there's sort of like, there's,
there's also this, it's reallyfunny, this sort of general idea
that like, we're not going toput salary, you know, we're not
going to, and, and now there'ssome pay transparency laws
coming into effect, but likenumber one, the advice is put
your salary in there.
Again, we'll help you.
We, but otherwise like help youunderstand whether you're
competitive in a salaryperspective.
(30:46):
And if you're not make up for itin other ways.
And if you are great, but eitherway, We see so much less
engagement with the jobs in ourplatform that do not list
salary.
People just want to know.
And so if you're hiring, be...
Be transparent with the way
SPEAKER_01 (31:03):
you
SPEAKER_00 (31:04):
pay people.
SPEAKER_01 (31:04):
That is fantastic advice.
Yeah, because a lot of timespeople can be a little shy about
that.
SPEAKER_00 (31:10):
Yeah, and I get it, right?
It's like, ooh, is everyonegoing to see this?
Are we going to lose ourcompetitive advantage?
I don't really think that thatdoesn't really make any sense
these days.
Certainly job seekers are notinterested in that.
SPEAKER_01 (31:21):
Yeah, well, it's good.
Again, I think we kind of keepcoming back to this theme of
respect the candidate's time.
100%.
Yep.
If you're not going to give theminformation that they want at
the beginning of their search,they're not going to click on
your job description.
You know, I'm not going to clickon your link.
SPEAKER_00 (31:37):
Yeah.
There's lots of otheropportunities out there.
So you might as well put it allout there.
Yeah, definitely a
SPEAKER_01 (31:43):
candidate's market right now.
That's for sure.
Yeah, 100%.
This has been so much fun,Christy.
I know you and I can talk allday.
We'll wrap up with one finalquestion.
Sure.
Because this is, you know, thisis a podcast about medical money
matters So I always like tobring it back to some metrics.
And I like to say, how do wemeasure and know that we've
(32:04):
gotten where we need to go?
So I'd love to hear yourthoughts on key performance
indicators and how your clientsor how you help your clients
measure success withrecruitment.
UNKNOWN (32:14):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (32:15):
Yeah, KPIs in the recruitment space are funny.
They're in some placescompletely non-existent and in
some places, I mean, there's alot of variability to it.
The long and short of it is Ithink a number that people
should understand, especiallyfor some groups that are hiring
and don't all the time is thistime to fill number.
So depending on obviously thesize of the market you're
(32:38):
recruiting to and what therequirements are for the
position, but in general, it'sgoing to take you a year to hire
a physician.
So if you want a KPI, I mean,you could benchmark recruitment.
If you hired in less time than ayear, you're doing great.
And then, I mean, as far asinternal goes, hold your teams
(33:00):
accountable and your clinicalstaff accountable to tapping
their networks.
Again, the power of the referralin this space is a lot.
And if you're not, if peoplearen't seeing this in a Google
search, they got to hear aboutit from somebody.
And so if you have a reallyhappy group of people, get them
talking about you in theircircles.
So anyway, and the effectivenessof recruitment strategies, so
(33:24):
highly variable, but yeah, Ithink it has to come down to how
long it takes you to hiresomebody.
That's something you shouldreally be looking at, but make
sure that you're planning wellin advance these days.
Yep.
So I'll start that for you.
Wonderful.
Well,
SPEAKER_01 (33:36):
thank you so much for such a comprehensive
conversation about recruiting.
Our audience is going to have alot to get out of this episode.
Christy, we'll make sure that weget your website into the show
notes and also your contactinformation so everybody
listening can find you.
And thank you so much again forbeing
SPEAKER_00 (33:55):
with us.
Absolutely.
Thanks for having me.
So nice.
Thanks.
SPEAKER_01 (34:00):
Thanks for tuning in to today's episode of the
Medical Money Matters podcast.
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medical group's coding to thenext level?
Because that's where Codemasterycomes in.
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(34:20):
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(34:45):
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See you next time on the MedicalMoney Matters podcast.
It's such a good question.
(00:01):
Yeah, traditional recruitmentmethods are a little antiquated,
I think is the kind way ofputting it.
Much of that is based in buyingcontact information of
physicians, you know, lists fromvarious sources, and then
putting that in the hands of therecruiters to just do all the
cold outreach, the inundation ofthe inbox and the phone and text
messages and the whole deal.
And so that's kind of theexisting way of doing it or
(00:24):
using agencies to deploy asimilar method on your behalf,
posting jobs on job boards, thatkind of thing.
But it's definitely not, itdoesn't favor the physician
approach.
And, you know, years of workingclosely with resident physicians
and just physician job seekersin general, as well as hiring
and leading teams of recruiters,I was like, this is not syncing
up.
This is not a thoughtfulapproach for highly trained,
(00:46):
highly educated physicians.
SPEAKER_01 (00:48):
Welcome to Medical Money Matters, the podcast where
you can find experts, answers,and resources to so that you can
achieve mastery over thefinancial and business aspects
of your practice.
Well, hello, everyone.
Welcome.
I am joined today by ChristyOlson, founder and chief
(01:09):
strategy officer at BeginlyHealth, which is an innovative
new digital platform forphysician recruitment.
Christy has a wealth ofknowledge in the physician
recruitment space, havingsuccessfully recruited hundreds
of physicians for a regionalhealth system that she and I
share as alumni, same healthsystem we both grew up in.
(01:30):
And she did that for the firstmany years of her career.
So I am excited that she's herewith us today as recruitment is
one of the things I hearrepeatedly from administrators,
physician owners, and CEOs.
So Christy, welcome.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm delighted that you're here.
Well, let's just jump right inbecause Beginly really
(01:52):
emphasizes a physician-ledapproach to job matching.
And so I'm curious to hear fromyou how this differs from
traditional recruitment methodsand then what advantages it
offers both physicians andmedical groups.
That's such a good
SPEAKER_00 (02:22):
question.
kind of thing, but it'sdefinitely not, it doesn't favor
the physician approach.
(02:43):
And years of working closelywith resident physicians and
just physician job seekers ingeneral, as well as hiring and
leading teams of recruiters, Iwas like, this is not syncing
up.
This is not a thoughtfulapproach for highly trained,
highly educated physicians.
It just felt, didn't feel goodfor me.
So we took a step back and said,hey, what if we thought about
(03:03):
this in a similar way as adating app, right?
Tell me about you, physician,what's important to you
clinically, but also in yourpersonal life, professionally.
And then we will go use ourmatching algorithm to tell you
what positions might be good foryou based on the things that
you're telling me about you.
So really putting the control inthe hands of the physician.
And then to take it a stepfurther, you know, even after we
(03:26):
match and bring these thingsforward to them, we give them
the opportunity to review thejobs in detail and then further
make the decision about aboutwhether talking to a recruiter
or a hiring professional withthat organization is interesting
to them.
So they get to make the decisionabout releasing their contact
info as well.
So it's really, we want them totell us about themselves and
we'll go tell them where thesethings exist.
(03:46):
That lineup is good fits.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:49):
So refreshing.
Thank you.
And it also sounds like itreally is designed to honor the
time of both parties, actually.
You know, the physician that'slooking for a new role, they can
be really focused about that.
And the groups that arerecruiting too, it really helps.
Not the shotgun approach, right?
It's much more targeted andfocused.
(04:10):
I love it.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (04:11):
There's definitely an efficiency play there.
You know, it's lettingtechnology, thoughtfully
deploying technology to bringsome efficiency to what is
otherwise a not efficientprocess, I guess you could say.
But yeah, so satisfaction andefficiency all in one.
That's the goal.
SPEAKER_01 (04:25):
Wonderful.
Wonderful.
SPEAKER_00 (04:27):
Well,
SPEAKER_01 (04:28):
I'd love to take a step back and kind of plumb some
of your experience in theindustry to think about the role
of external recruiters.
So for our audience, when shoulda medical group consider
partnering with an externalrecruiter?
And then what criteria shouldthey use to really think about
selecting the right partner?
(04:50):
Other than 1-800-CALL-CHRISTIE,right?
SPEAKER_00 (04:55):
Because that's a good one.
(05:20):
on association websites orwhatever, but you do often end
up having to tap an agency.
And so I will just say that someare better than others.
And if I were looking at anagency, I would look for one
that had more of a regionalaccountability.
So you're not, if you're basedhere in Oregon, you're not
hiring a team that's based outof New York that doesn't
understand the culture of thevibes of the market.
(05:41):
And also, these agencies havebasically these CRMs full of
physician names and they tend tobe fairly regionally centric.
And so tapping into somebody whohas that is important.
But I would, before doinganything with external, the
power of referrals can't beunderstated.
And so making sure that you'vereally deployed your existing
(06:04):
physicians in your clinic to taptheir networks, to make sure
they're telling people aboutthese openings, I would just
really start there.
Potentially even localassociations, their career
fairs, that kind of thing.
I would go there first.
And then again, agencies, theyvary.
And so you're just like, alittle secret is you can do a
contingency arrangement or youcan do a retained arrangement
(06:27):
right and so if you're willingto pay in a retained model or
you give them a little bit upfront you're going to get more
they're going to dedicate moretime to your job so it's a
little scary to outlay cash upfront because there still is no
guarantee that they're going tofind you somebody but at least
you can semi guarantee they'regoing to give you a little bit
more attention
SPEAKER_01 (06:43):
Got it.
SPEAKER_00 (06:44):
Got it.
SPEAKER_01 (06:45):
Great advice.
I love it.
Well, you talked a little bitabout the sort of regional
specificity, which is greataudience and also the vibe.
And I think about that, youknow, like Pacific Northwest is
a very different, you know,professional vibe and work vibe
from, say, the East Coast or theSouth.
So that's, I think, really greatadvice.
And that's a wonderful segue forus to think about organizational
(07:09):
culture.
So, you know, sort of regionalculture, but then also
organizational cultures.
So talk a little bit about howclinics can effectively
highlight their culture andvalues to attract physicians
that are really gonna be a goodfit.
SPEAKER_00 (07:25):
Yeah, I think this is so important and it's often
overlooked.
I think, you know, so manyorganizations start at the top
of like, we're gonna attractpeople with big salaries and big
sign on bonuses and that kind ofthing.
And listen, like some of thisstuff is table stakes anymore,
but really showcasing theculture in the clinic is going a
really long way.
It's hard to do in a jobdescription.
(07:46):
You can try.
And we try to build it in ourtool opportunities for there to
be a better storytelling moment.
But, you know, I think whenphysicians come in for site
visits, being able to show, Iwas just talking to one of our
friends, mutual friends, who'sbeen a physician leader for a
long time about this and that,so much of it is if you're a
younger physician coming in,that they can look around and
(08:07):
say, oh, this is a, you withyoung children or that just sort
of like they're on the same pageas me.
There's definitely sort of a oldschool mentality as it comes to
the way that physicianspractice.
Older physicians tend to saylike, I can't believe anybody
wants to work partial schedulesand they don't want to work 80
hour weeks.
(08:27):
And so there's a little bit ofthis layer of judgment about the
newer generation of physicians.
But you know what?
It's almost everybody coming outof training wants to practice in
a way that allows them to have alife.
And so being able to showcasethat when people come in for
visits and when you're talkingto them on the phone is
incredibly important.
Being accommodating to thatreality will go
SPEAKER_01 (08:47):
a really, really long way.
That's fantastic.
Well, it's great advice too tothink about if you're the
administrator or the physicianin charge of the recruiting is
to really think about, you know,what, what is the vibe that your
group gives off?
And if you have mostly, youknow, the old guard that, as you
say, or, you know, well, I hadto work 80 hours a week through
(09:08):
residency.
Everybody else should too, youknow, that, that isn't going to
sell it to the new generationcoming out.
SPEAKER_00 (09:14):
Yeah.
Nor is it going to lead to, youknow, long-term retaining of
them either, which I'm surewe'll get to at some point, but
it's, I think there's a tendencybecause recruitment is really
hard right now to just sort ofdo whatever you can to get
somebody in the door.
And ultimately that's not goingto drive that satisfaction on
either side.
So really emphasizing theculture of practice and And
(09:36):
often, you know, what's reallyinteresting, too, is I think
sometimes clinics don't evenreally know or groups don't even
really know what their cultureis.
Like, what is it about theculture of our group that we
want to emphasize?
And so doing a little bit ofthat before you start hiring and
what kind of person really do wewant to join this group can go a
long way because I think thatgets sort of passed over.
It's just let's just go findsomebody and then you can, you
(09:56):
know, that can lead to mismatch,too.
SPEAKER_01 (09:58):
That is also a great insight.
When our group does strategicplanning, we actually spend time
on mission, vision, values.
And we'll go back to the groupand say, if you already have
them, let's go back and checkout, do they still resonate for
you?
And do we ratify these and moveon?
Or do we want to make somechanges?
And the very next thing we talkabout is their culture.
(10:18):
And we say, what is yourculture?
And there's always a little bitof quiet after we ask that
question.
People sit in their chairfrequently.
SPEAKER_00 (10:25):
And would everybody say the same thing?
Yeah.
Yeah, well, we
SPEAKER_01 (10:29):
put it up on a flip chart.
So it's like, let's at least tryto get, you know, some
consistency in this room if wehave all the leaders.
For sure.
But frequently, and I'm sure yousee this in practices too,
culture sort of happens byhappenstance.
It's sort of accidental.
And frequently it's driven by ifthere are one or two, you know,
big personalities in the group,that tends to drive the culture
(10:49):
too.
And maybe not exactly where youwant it to go.
So it's lovely to get someclarity on what do you want the
culture to be?
UNKNOWN (10:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (10:58):
I think
SPEAKER_00 (10:59):
it's also one other piece is that what's unique
about, I think, culture is thatit's not like organizationally
organized.
there's not always a culture.
I mean, there can be sort of themission, you know, values, et
cetera.
But I mean, I rememberrecruiting for a large health
system and having 40, 45different primary care clinics,
(11:19):
each of which had their ownculture.
And so being really thoughtfulabout that too, that, you know,
interviewing at different placescan really mean something very
different to people becausethey're going to get a
completely different vibe.
So, you know, just being awareof that, I think is super
important.
SPEAKER_01 (11:33):
And that's a great point.
In the larger groups as well,there's always sort of that
overarching culture and the sortof what we say our mission and
vision and values are.
And each location really doeshave its own, you know, those
are the people you hang out withminute by minute, hour by hour,
day by day.
And so that, yeah, that reallycan have very different flavors
from one location to the next.
(11:53):
So, yeah.
Well, I would love to thinkabout, you know, sort of the end
of the recruitment process andkind of think about sealing the
deal.
So in your experience, what arethe key factors that influence a
physician's decision Yeah, it'sso
SPEAKER_00 (12:17):
interesting talking about this because I think when
I first started my, you know,physician recruitment journey,
it was all about comp.
it really did feel like, okay,whoever can be the most
competitive with, you know, thepackage they're putting forward.
And it's just not that anymore.
I will, you know, with the largecaveat that there's some
specialty nuance to this, thatsometimes that really is a
(12:39):
driving force.
But, you know, if we're thinkingabout maybe just, you know,
especially primary care, I'lltell you, and I think I probably
told you the story that I wasjust working with a senior
resident and she opted fortaking a role with an FQHC
because the things that weremost important to her were
patient populations that she wasserving, ability to speak
(13:00):
Spanish in the clinic, andhaving some teaching
opportunities.
And as I was coaching herthrough this process, I said,
you know, you're leaving about$100,000 on the table.
And she said, yeah, I know.
And she's intentionally makingthat choice.
And so sealing the deal willlook different for everybody.
And when I'm talking todifferent practices, I emphasize
(13:22):
the fact that Put your best footforward as far as compensation
is concerned.
Do what you can.
Be competitive if you can be.
And then emphasize the otherthings in clinic, the clinical
support tools.
Do you have AI scribing?
Do you have inbox managementtools?
What's your nurse to physicianratio?
How much time are physiciansspending after they see patients
(13:43):
in the EMR and documentingstuff?
So really painting a picture ofthe lifestyle that they can have
in the clinic is going to go areally long way.
And so you can really make Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (14:21):
I love it.
Well, you and I talked aboutthis a little bit earlier, and I
wonder if you could comment alittle bit on the, although it's
not all compensation, whengroups make an offer to a
physician, how they can packagethat in a way that it's easily
understandable, especially if itincludes work RVUs or something
(14:42):
like that.
I both know a lot of physiciansdon't really understand.
So what would you say to groupsthat want to package something
that's easily understandable?
SPEAKER_00 (14:51):
I would take the time to walk people through it.
I think a lot of people justmake the assumption that
physicians, and especiallydoctors, folks coming out of
training, that they understandit at all.
And they really don't.
Often, the first time they seean offer will be the first time
they see the term work RVU.
And so making them feel likethey actually understand what
(15:12):
their role is as it pertains tothe comp that they're going to
see is really important.
I think being able to spell outother opportunities for them to
earn additional income if that'simportant to them.
But yeah, I mean, just...
not assuming that they know whatyou're talking about will go a
long way and spending the timeto make them feel like, okay, I
get this.
I understand how I can play arole in this particular practice
(15:36):
and how I influence my owncompensation.
And then one other thing, andthis is funny because I know it
to be true, but one of ourresident advisors was talking to
us about when he took his job asa cardiologist and he was saying
that his ultimate decision camedown to the fact that he was
made to feel very special And Iget it.
(15:56):
It's like this red carpet thing.
Some groups are really good insome secrets for hiring people.
It's like assign a physicianleader to call these folks, tell
them how much they enjoyed theinterview.
This red carpet thing reallygoes a long way.
Don't make them feel likethey're dime a dozen or like
that, you know, we have tons ofpeople to consider that doesn't
(16:19):
really work, especially if youdon't.
But really, we can see you inthis clinic and making them feel
special thing.
Obviously, they haven't had alot of that throughout the
course of their training.
And so bringing that forward andbeing really responsive and
thoughtful will go a
SPEAKER_01 (16:39):
literally, and this is, again, a little old school,
put together a packet that theycould give to the candidate that
was something they could takewith them that had information
about the clinic, mission,vision, values, all of that, a
little bit of who we are, andthen some local information if
the candidate was coming fromout of town.
So those are things I thinksometimes We forget as we're
(17:04):
busy administrators runningaround trying to coordinate a
visit for a candidate.
And we forget to do the giftwrap part of it.
When you give the gift, thepackaging has to be a part of
it.
I always like to say to ourconsulting team, it's a little
bit of theater, but it'simportant.
SPEAKER_00 (17:20):
Yeah.
And you kind of think that itwouldn't be that important.
And, but it's been, it's beendefinitely verbalized a couple
of times in the last year and I,so anyway, it's worth
mentioning, but, and even just,you know, if you're a smaller
group, I think that stuff reallydoes go an extra long way
because to know that the largerentities are doing stuff like
that, you know, goodie bags athotel rooms and, you know, they
(17:43):
have obviously more resources,but anyway, so yeah, try to, try
to compete in the soft stufftoo.
SPEAKER_01 (17:50):
It's not terribly expensive to make a gift basket
land in a hotel room.
Yeah, that's great.
That is great advice.
Well, and that sort of leadsinto thinking about retention,
you know, and once you get thesecandidates here, you do all this
work, you go to all the expense.
So beyond recruitment, whatstrategies do you recommend to
your clients to ensure long-termretention of physicians?
SPEAKER_00 (18:13):
Yeah, and it's interesting in my last role, we
didn't have a big hand in theretention, but My purview comes
from the people that I did talkto and why they were looking for
jobs, right?
And why they left.
And I think we're hearing a lot,and I've referenced this
already, but this newergeneration of physician is,
again, their entire identity isnot being a doc.
(18:34):
It's not, many of them will,their family first or their
hobby first or whatever it mightbe.
And so recognizing that, firstof all, building room in in the
way that you run the practice toaccommodate that.
Again, I see so many groupsthrow money like oh at the end
of two years you'll get thisretention bonus and I just don't
(18:56):
that's just not it that's just Ithink it's a part of it if
you're behind in comp and it'skind of a leveling thing but
it's really the ability to makea physician in your group feel
like they have a say thatthey're heard and you know again
the camaraderie if that's whatthey're looking for it's so much
more about the other stuff withthis newer group than it is
about throwing money on aproblem so that feels a little
(19:19):
bit vague but I mean I thinkevery group knows what they what
they should be leveraging withintheir clinic.
And it goes back to also, Ithink you and I have talked
about this before, is likehiring the right people in the
beginning will also yield betterretention.
And because it is so hard torecruit, it's easy to just hire.
And I think that's okay if youcan also understand that that
(19:43):
may lead to more turnover later,but really focusing on the
things that will make a reallygood physician in your group and
then looking for that personshould sort of in and of itself
support the retention.
SPEAKER_01 (19:54):
Well, to your point, hiring the right person, it
loves about our advances intechnology.
And I think your your platformat Beginly is a great example of
taking something, taking sometechnology like dating site,
dating websites and matchingalgorithms that we know about
and applying that in thebusiness setting and in the
health care setting.
So I'd love to hear yourthoughts on how technology
(20:17):
enhances the recruitment processand then, you know, what
organizations should be lookingfor in terms of recruitment
technology.
I
SPEAKER_00 (20:26):
mean, more and more things are coming out, you know,
TBD on whether they last, youknow, I mean, technology is,
it's funny because whiletechnology, the space really
needs new technology, it's alsoan audience that's a little bit
resistant to technology.
Oh,
SPEAKER_01 (20:43):
healthcare is eons behind with all of our
technology.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (20:47):
There's always this, like, you have to be careful
what you say.
Yeah.
(21:10):
I always say like how manypeople in their 20s have ever
made a dinner reservation viaphone call?
There's this sort of reluctanceto get on the phone to learn
about things.
They would much rather learnabout things, do their own
research, and then talk tosomebody when they have to.
So that was kind of theintention of Beginling is like
create a space whereorganizations can do that
(21:31):
storytelling and take a momentto– be okay with that reality of
the audience that they'reattracting and be transparent.
This is something that I thinkis really missing in this
industry right now is thependulum sort of swung from one
end to the end of being as vagueas possible so that you're sort
(21:51):
of like dangling this carrot,but nobody wants that.
I wouldn't even want that,right?
I'm a physician.
I loosely know what I'm lookingfor.
Tell me the details and thenallow me to make a decision, a
thoughtful decision based on thedetails of your role.
And so anyway, I think whenyou're looking at technologies,
it's important to think aboutthe customer or the end user.
(22:15):
And otherwise the technology isjust a technology solving,
trying to solve something that,you know, or adding to an
already troublesome.
I mean, there's a lot of stuffin the recruitment space right
now that's trying to pinpointIt's all about pipeline as
trying to pinpoint the bestdoctor for your job based on a
series of things.
But it's not addressing theengagement part.
(22:37):
Because if you really thinkabout what's happening in this
industry, because so many peoplewith this shortage, so many
people are after the same smallpipeline of people.
Inboxes are flooded.
Phones are flooded.
And as such, everybody, thesephysicians are just deleting
everything.
And so teeing up a solution thatjust gives you a more
pinpointed, names doesn'tactually get you on the other
(23:00):
side of the problem, which islike getting people to see you
or pay attention to you.
And so I think that's just sortof the great reckoning in the
space right now is whoever canget on the other side of the
engagement dilemma is reallywhere we're at.
Got it.
Got it.
Well,
SPEAKER_01 (23:14):
yeah.
And having the technology thatdoes the matching, again, seems
to be really respectful of theirtime and not flooding their
inbox.
So,
SPEAKER_00 (23:30):
yeah.
whether it's search engineoptimization or whatever it may
be, it's expensive to be seenanymore.
And it's also expensive to be ona lot of the existing tools.
(23:53):
And so as a small group, you'resort of like, what am I supposed
to do to make myself show up?
You can Google family medicinein any given area and you're
going to see the biggestplayers, the ones who are
spending the most money to showup.
And while that's Fine if youunderstand that.
That's also quite limiting ifyou're a smaller group because
the reality is many of thesephysician job seekers are
(24:16):
actually looking for the sort ofopportunity that an independent
group has to offer, but theywould never know that those
groups are hiring.
And so, yeah, bringing someequity to the process is
important to us.
A little bit of leveling theplaying field.
And it's a leveling of theplaying field because if you can
really think about like, this isactually about the physician and
(24:36):
what they want, not about theemployer and how much money
they're spending.
It matters to see all thethings, right?
It's important for the ecosystemof healthcare.
So yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (24:45):
I love the egalitarianism Yeah, that's
fantastic.
Well, let's shift gears a littlebit and talk about what
everybody's talking about, whichis physician burnout and
thinking about, you know, thatis a significant concern for the
market.
And it's this is probably alittle bit of a given, but think
(25:05):
a little bit about how therecruitment process can be
brought to bear.
on that burnout.
And as you and I said, we weretalking earlier, you know,
burnout is the reason thenpeople call you, right?
It's like, okay, I've gotphysicians leaving or a lot of
early retirements, which we'restill seeing in the market, you
know, all that's happening.
So how do you think aboutburnout in the physician world?
SPEAKER_00 (25:26):
I just, I think about burnout a lot because, I
mean, I think everybody'sthinking about burnout a lot in
the physician space, but Justwatching sort of this trend of
physicians backing FTE down, youknow, there aren't a lot of
physicians, I don't think,working full schedules right
now.
And, you know, when you talk tothem, many of them say, it's not
(25:46):
because I don't like to workhard.
It's because I don't,especially, you know, I think
about the primary care spaceversus sort of like space where
every day you're walking to thesame clinic and you've got, I
don't know, 18 to 25, 30patients on your schedule.
UNKNOWN (26:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:02):
every single day.
I mean, I think anybody, ifthat's what you did every day,
you'd start getting burned outand the heaviness of the work.
I mean, lay that on top.
And so I just think, I think alot about the physician
workforce shifting away fromwanting to do that full-time,
same thing every day, all day,and looking to diversify the way
(26:24):
that they flex their skill sets.
And I think it's reallyimportant.
So, you know, We don't wantpeople leaving medicine
altogether.
So if you can accommodateallowing people to have a mix of
responsibility, I think that'sgoing to go a long way.
But ultimately, too, so much ofburnout, I think, starts at the
very beginning in therecruitment process.
(26:46):
And I've said this a couple oftimes, but everyone is quite
desperate to hire and willmake...
And I hate to say this, butthere's lots of times people
will say, we just need a pulse.
You know what I mean?
And it's like, okay, I get it.
And you can do that.
You can recruit in that way, butdon't anticipate people sticking
(27:06):
around for very long.
So I feel like a lot of burnoutcan be addressed by...
A lot of the things we'vealready talked about in this is
that...
Identifying what's important toyour group, like what a good fit
actually looks like, and reallybeing thoughtful about hiring
that kind of person.
And then thinking aboutorganizationally how much
flexibility you have to meetpeople where they are can really
kind of aid in that burnout.
SPEAKER_01 (27:29):
Yeah.
That's really insightful.
I mean, you know, the statisticsare pretty staggering.
And it seems like most everyonewho worked through the pandemic
and is still practicing, I agreewith you, they've turned down
the volume a little bit.
They're still in it.
And so many early retirements,you know, and I just on the one
hand, I think.
(27:50):
hats off to you and good for youfor taking care of your own
health.
And I worry about our industrystill that we're in this
recovery mode and it doesn'tfeel like we're coming out of
that all that fast.
SPEAKER_00 (28:02):
Yeah.
Oh, I agree.
Yep.
And we're not, we're nottraining more people than we
used to.
And so figuring out how tosupport the, you know, the folks
that are coming out is reallyimportant, but I, you know, we
look at the day on our tool too.
And it's like, one of thequestions we ask is, how much
they want to work.
I'm going to send some ifthey're coming out gung-ho.
And the majority of the peoplewho are answering that question
(28:23):
do not select full-time.
SPEAKER_01 (28:25):
Interesting.
Okay.
Well, that's excellent for ouraudience to know then, you know,
if you're, if you're searchingfor someone who wants to work
full time, get, get really clearabout what that means in your
group, because every group has aslightly different definition of
full time.
And then understand that youmight be passing up on some
really good candidates thatmight only want, you know, 0.8
or 0.75 or something like that.
SPEAKER_00 (28:46):
Or figure out how to make full time be a four day
work week or something likethat.
That would
SPEAKER_01 (28:51):
also, a lot of people are doing that.
32 hours a week you know patientcare time and then you're still
responsible to get all yourcharting done you know and so
maybe that happens on your youknow your quote day off or your
day not in the office but that'sfantastic well how about
thinking a little bit back toour kind of our conversations
(29:11):
about culture and howorganizations can really set
themselves up for success inrecruiting one of the other
topics we hear about a lot wecould talk about a lot is
transparency and so I'm curiousto hear from you about how
transparency and job roles andexpectations and organizational
challenges.
Not that we want to hang out allthe dirty laundry, but to talk
(29:33):
about that and how that impactsthe recruitment process and then
subsequently candidatesatisfaction.
Yeah.
I mean,
SPEAKER_00 (29:41):
we said this a little bit too about what people
want to read.
They want to see all the things.
I often say to the folks thatare building out their jobs and
our tool that whatever Yeah.
(30:25):
But yeah, I don't, you know,there's sort of like, there's,
there's also this, it's reallyfunny, this sort of general idea
that like, we're not going toput salary, you know, we're not
going to, and, and now there'ssome pay transparency laws
coming into effect, but likenumber one, the advice is put
your salary in there.
Again, we'll help you.
We, but otherwise like help youunderstand whether you're
competitive in a salaryperspective.
(30:46):
And if you're not make up for itin other ways.
And if you are great, but eitherway, We see so much less
engagement with the jobs in ourplatform that do not list
salary.
People just want to know.
And so if you're hiring, be...
Be transparent with the way
SPEAKER_01 (31:03):
you
SPEAKER_00 (31:04):
pay people.
SPEAKER_01 (31:04):
That is fantastic advice.
Yeah, because a lot of timespeople can be a little shy about
that.
SPEAKER_00 (31:10):
Yeah, and I get it, right?
It's like, ooh, is everyonegoing to see this?
Are we going to lose ourcompetitive advantage?
I don't really think that thatdoesn't really make any sense
these days.
Certainly job seekers are notinterested in that.
SPEAKER_01 (31:21):
Yeah, well, it's good.
Again, I think we kind of keepcoming back to this theme of
respect the candidate's time.
100%.
Yep.
If you're not going to give theminformation that they want at
the beginning of their search,they're not going to click on
your job description.
You know, I'm not going to clickon your link.
SPEAKER_00 (31:37):
Yeah.
There's lots of otheropportunities out there.
So you might as well put it allout there.
Yeah, definitely a
SPEAKER_01 (31:43):
candidate's market right now.
That's for sure.
Yeah, 100%.
This has been so much fun,Christy.
I know you and I can talk allday.
We'll wrap up with one finalquestion.
Sure.
Because this is, you know, thisis a podcast about medical money
matters So I always like tobring it back to some metrics.
And I like to say, how do wemeasure and know that we've
(32:04):
gotten where we need to go?
So I'd love to hear yourthoughts on key performance
indicators and how your clientsor how you help your clients
measure success withrecruitment.
UNKNOWN (32:14):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (32:15):
Yeah, KPIs in the recruitment space are funny.
They're in some placescompletely non-existent and in
some places, I mean, there's alot of variability to it.
The long and short of it is Ithink a number that people
should understand, especiallyfor some groups that are hiring
and don't all the time is thistime to fill number.
So depending on obviously thesize of the market you're
(32:38):
recruiting to and what therequirements are for the
position, but in general, it'sgoing to take you a year to hire
a physician.
So if you want a KPI, I mean,you could benchmark recruitment.
If you hired in less time than ayear, you're doing great.
And then, I mean, as far asinternal goes, hold your teams
(33:00):
accountable and your clinicalstaff accountable to tapping
their networks.
Again, the power of the referralin this space is a lot.
And if you're not, if peoplearen't seeing this in a Google
search, they got to hear aboutit from somebody.
And so if you have a reallyhappy group of people, get them
talking about you in theircircles.
So anyway, and the effectivenessof recruitment strategies, so
(33:24):
highly variable, but yeah, Ithink it has to come down to how
long it takes you to hiresomebody.
That's something you shouldreally be looking at, but make
sure that you're planning wellin advance these days.
Yep.
So I'll start that for you.
Wonderful.
Well,
SPEAKER_01 (33:36):
thank you so much for such a comprehensive
conversation about recruiting.
Our audience is going to have alot to get out of this episode.
Christy, we'll make sure that weget your website into the show
notes and also your contactinformation so everybody
listening can find you.
And thank you so much again forbeing
SPEAKER_00 (33:55):
with us.
Absolutely.
Thanks for having me.
So nice.
Thanks.
SPEAKER_01 (34:00):
Thanks for tuning in to today's episode of the
Medical Money Matters podcast.
Before you go, let me ask you,are you ready to take your
medical group's coding to thenext level?
Because that's where Codemasterycomes in.
Codemastery isn't just anothercoding program.
It's the ultimatephysician-to-physician training
(34:20):
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physicians with the skills theyneed to code confidently and win
the coding game.
From comprehensive high-octanetraining to actionable insights,
Codemastery gives you the edgeyou've been looking for.
Don't leave money on the table.
Visit healtheps.com slashcodemastery to learn more and
(34:45):
take control of your codingtoday.
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See you next time on the MedicalMoney Matters podcast.
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