November 17, 2023 • 48 mins
Today we talk to educator and author Molly Ness about intentionally planning for read-alouds. Molly will share an easy to prepare protocol for a read-aloud in any grade level or content area.
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Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Melissa (00:01):
You're listening to Melissa and Lori Love Literacy.
Today we'll be talking toeducator and author Molly Ness
about intentionally planning forread-alouds.
Molly will share aneasy-to-prepare protocol for
read-aloud in any grade level orcontent area.
Lori (00:19):
Welcome teacher friend.
I'm Lori and I'm Melissa.
We are two literacy educatorsin Baltimore.
Melissa (00:26):
We want the best for all kids and we know you do too.
Our district recently adopted anew literacy curriculum, which
meant a lot of change foreveryone, Lori and I can't wait
to keep learning about literacywith you today.
Lori (00:43):
Hi everyone, Welcome to Melissa and Lori Love Literacy.
We're so excited because todaywe are diving deep into
read-alouds and sharingpractical tips for teachers.
Melissa (00:54):
And we're here with a returning guest, Molly Ness.
She's a former teacher, aprofessor, an author and
currently vice president ofacademic content at Learning
Ally.
And, most exciting, sherecently wrote a book titled
Read-Alds for All Learners.
Molly Ness (01:11):
Welcome, Molly.
Thanks for having me.
I'm so excited to be here.
Lori (01:15):
Yeah, we can't wait.
This is going to be such a funepisode.
We get so many questions aboutread-alouds and I just think
this is practical for teachersin every grade, and we got a
sneak preview of your book Superawesome.
So a little plug there for that.
We'll also have you share moreabout that at the end, if that's
OK.
Really practical.
Molly Ness (01:36):
Thank you.
Yeah, I tried to write the bookthat I wish I had as as an
early career teacher, to help meplan my read-alouds.
Lori (01:44):
Yeah, so important.
Melissa (01:46):
Well, that feels like a good place to start, yeah, and
I think we should start justeven with what is a read-aloud.
I know that seems like such asimple question, but I think we
often have differentinterpretations of what that
term means, so I'm going to letyou jump in to talk about what
it is.
Sure Well.
Molly Ness (02:05):
I'm specifically focusing on the interactive
language-rich experience betweena teacher and a child or a
group of children, and we knowthat there are so many different
formats of read-alouds.
Kids can read to each other,kids can read to stuffed animals
or dogs, Parents can read tochildren and there is powerful
(02:26):
research about all of those aswell.
But I was really looking at theteacher facilitated read-aloud
across content areas and reallyK through eight.
I want to push against the ideathat read-alouds are the
purview of our early childhoodeducators or even our childhood
educators, or that read-aloudsbelong only in the reading block
(02:50):
.
So the focus really is readinga loud teacher in front of
whatever grade level of studentspre-K through eight and
integrating those read-alouds inall different content areas and
times of the day.
Melissa (03:04):
I wanted to ask about that.
There's one part of your bookthat talks about audio books and
it stuck out to me when I wasthinking about is there is an
audio book or read-aloud?
Does that count?
Molly Ness (03:14):
Yeah.
So I actually dug into thisresearch a little bit because
when my daughter was doing herread-a-thon at her elementary
school, we logged in all of theminutes that we listened to an
audio book, and because wetravel far for different sports
competitions, we had just a tonof minutes and nobody believed
(03:35):
that we had quote unquote readso many minutes, and so it
actually started this wholegreat conversation.
Does read-aloud, does listeningto a read-aloud, have the same
benefits?
Does it count?
And we have some reallycompelling research from people
like Stanislaus Dehan, who Iknow we all have sort of a fan
girl reading crush on, whoexplains that the language parts
(03:58):
of the brain go through thesame activation, involvement,
engagement when we listen to abook as when we actually read it
.
So, in the words of DanielWillingham, which I actually
borrow for the book fly thataudio book flag loud and proud,
because there is such a benefit.
Lori (04:17):
Oh, I love that.
And actually I love thatbecause I just bought his book
on audio book.
So I had his book on me too.
Ok, that actually is reallyawesome, Molly.
I'm so glad that we talkedabout that.
Melissa, that was a reallyreally good question and I love
that you brought that up likeright off the bat.
So thank you for that info.
(04:38):
So, Molly, if we could thinkabout why read alouds are
important and what the researchsays about them, that would be
really helpful.
Molly Ness (04:47):
Sure, well as grateful as I am for this sort
of particular moment in ourliteracy landscape where there's
so much conversation about thescience of reading, I have felt
it has been really focused onthe constrained skills of word
recognition and decoding, and sothere's been some sort of
misinformation or confusionaround.
(05:08):
Well, where do read alouds fitin the science of reading, and
my argument and all of the datashows that that read alouds are
really probably the mosteffective research based way to
facilitate languagecomprehension growth.
So when we think about thatScarborough rope, as we all love
(05:30):
and know so well, read aloudsare the way that we get to build
background knowledge, exposekids to funds of knowledge,
introduce vocabulary and all ofthose meaningful, unconstrained
skills which contribute so muchto comprehension.
So there's been I'm trying toalso push against the idea that
(05:50):
read alouds say that the scienceof reading says there's no time
or place for read alouds.
In fact, the research is reallycompelling and we actually know
some pretty fascinatingresearch.
I think we're all sort offamiliar with the research that
shows that read alouds increasekids early language skills,
vocabulary, those sorts ofthings.
(06:11):
But I also found some stuffthat was pretty interesting.
So, in particular, I was justblown away by some research that
shows physiological benefits ofread alouds, and let me walk
through an experiment thathappened in a neonatal intensive
care unit.
So a researcher based out ofUniversity of Virginia looked at
(06:33):
what happened to read alouds ofmedically fragile babies.
So these were babies that hadbeen born prematurely.
They were sort of connected toall sorts of wires and
monitoring and in those sort ofincubators and what would happen
when parents read aloud to them.
So we know that parents whohave children in the neonatal
(06:58):
intensive unit often are.
They struggle with how tointeract with their baby.
They're fragile, they're alittle intimidated by the
machinery and such, and sooftentimes mothers in particular
go through periods ofpostpartum depression.
They can't take their baby'shome as well as they might have
been able to, or to medicallyrobust baby.
(07:19):
So this experiment created threedifferent types of reading A
whisper read for very shortdurations of time period for the
really most medically fragilebabies, all the way up to sort
of a normal speaking longerduration, to the babies that
were just about to be discharged.
And what the researchers foundis that those babies their
(07:43):
oxygen rates increased and theirheart beats decreased, meaning
all of those things that happenin our body when we are relaxed,
when we are enjoyingexperiences.
And not only did we see thatincrease in oxygen level and the
decrease in heart rate duringthe read aloud, it lasted for
(08:04):
about 20 minutes, 20 to 30minutes after the read aloud.
And these interviewers, theseresearchers, actually then went
and interviewed parents as welland the mothers who were
experiencing postpartumdepression said that they felt
better, they knew what to do nowwith their babies they weren't
sure how to interact with thempreviously and now we have hand
(08:25):
them a book and they know whatto do and that they were more
determined to read aloud totheir babies after taking them
home.
So we start to seephysiological benefits and we're
seeing it in adults that whenpeople in adulthood listen to
read alouds, we see an increasein neurotransmitters like
oxytocin, the neurotransmitterthat deals with pleasure and
(08:49):
enjoyment.
So some pretty compellingresearch that's just starting to
look at not only how arelinguistic, our vocabulary, all
those literacy skills, butliterally how listening to a
read aloud shapes our body andtransforms us.
Melissa (09:03):
It's such a fascinating study.
I know I can't believe like whowould have even thought to do
that.
I think that's so cool.
Lori (09:10):
Yeah, I felt like I was having story time and I wanted
you to tell me this what, 12years ago or 11 years ago, when
Press was in the NICU, I wouldhave done it.
Molly Ness (09:21):
Yes, and actually another set of researchers
looked at children who werehospitalized and found that when
they listen to read alouds,their levels their self reported
levels of pain and discomfortdecreased just by listening to a
read aloud.
So lots and lots of compellingresearch around read alouds, not
(09:44):
just in the classroom but in,you know, life settings and all
these different conditions.
But of course we're here totalk about read alouds in the
classroom.
Melissa (09:53):
Yeah, but I was going to say real quick before we move
from that.
I do feel like I hear a lot ofteachers who say this is one of
their favorite times you know ofthe day.
So when they get to just readaloud to their students and
wonder if it's a similar, youknow similar things happening.
Molly Ness (10:08):
Sure, and that takes me back to my first classroom
experience.
I was a classroom teacher inOakland, California, and there
was the time of day that kidscame back all revved up, amped
up from recess slash lunch.
You know they're all sweatybecause we were in California.
They were ready to, you know,recount the drama and conflict
(10:34):
on the playground and that Ididn't know much as a first year
teacher.
But I knew that they needed tolike sit and calm their bodies
and refocus their energy, andfor us the read aloud was that
period.
So it was our, our sort ofwelcome back to class.
Let's recenter, let's refocus,let's transition.
(10:55):
And at the time then I didn'tknow all of the other benefits
of it, I just knew it was aneasy, enjoyable transition for
all of us.
Melissa (11:05):
So I just met with a fifth grade teacher and she has
said the same exact thing.
She, she, I saw her schedulethat was listed on the day and
she had read aloud right afterthey came back from lunch and
recess.
And I asked her about it and Icould see her like trying to
defend it, as if I was going tolike like why did you use that
time for that?
That's not on the list ofthings you're supposed to do.
(11:26):
And I was like I think that'sthe perfect thing to do at that
time.
It's like right, right at theright time for for just like you
said, like recentering andletting them calm, but also
you're getting so many otherbenefits from it too.
Right, not just calming, but itdoes have that effect too.
Well, can we jump into somenitty gritty specifics now?
(11:48):
Sure, all right.
So in your book you actuallyshare a really clear three step
process for planning read alouds.
So I'm wondering if you couldwalk our listeners through those
steps and how they help to setthem up for success for reading
aloud.
Molly Ness (12:07):
Sure.
Well, let me just back up witha tiny bit of context to those
steps.
So another thing that I waspretty.
I was pretty surprised to findthat we know there's a decline
in read alouds.
Right now read alouds aredecreasing, not only in
frequency but certainlydecreasing as kids get older.
(12:29):
So you know, k through twoteachers might read aloud more
frequently than you know a fifthgrade teacher or seventh grade
teacher.
But to me the most staggeringstudy I found and it resonates
with me when I was an earlycareer teacher is that 50 to 70%
of teachers don't plan theirread alouds Other than here's
(12:50):
the book I'm going to read.
They don't go through andexamine for instructional
opportunities and stoppingpoints and all of those things.
And what we know is that whenwe look at the read aloud is
just sort of a impromptu I'llhave some brilliant
instructional moment come to meas I'm reading.
We miss opportunities.
(13:11):
And actually there's been somediscourse analysis studies of
the language that teachers usewhile reading aloud, when they
plan intentionally versus whenit's sort of that more impromptu
experience.
And teachers tend to use morelow level questions.
They tend to focus onvocabulary which is not
(13:33):
necessarily that rich,meaningful, tier two vocabulary
like Beck talks about.
So I really I thought aboutthat myself, my when I was a
first year and early careerteacher, my read aloud was all
right.
I got 10 to 15 minutes.
Here are the pages I'm going toread and that's what I thought
planning a read aloud.
Now I know that planning is is amulti step process.
(13:55):
So for me, step number one isto evaluate what I do.
Is I evaluate the book forbackground knowledge, which
we've got so much greatconversation about the
importance of backgroundknowledge?
I extend it to include funds ofknowledge and not just
background knowledge.
Funds of knowledge sort ofbeing sort of the social norms
(14:18):
and cultural capitals thathappen in books as well.
So I evaluate for thebackground knowledge which the
text assumes that my kids aregoing to know or that they need
to know to bring to the page tomake meaning.
I also evaluate forinstructional opportunities,
like I really want to make surethat I focus on this portion.
(14:39):
So I just go through and Ievaluate what are the benefits,
what are the potential stumblingblocks, what do my kids need to
know to be successful inpreparing in reading this text?
In step number two, I explainand I engage, and I do two
(14:59):
different ways of explaining andengaging.
First of all, I focus onvocabulary and I mentioned
earlier those Isabelle Beck andher colleagues as they would
call them, those tier two words,those sophisticated words, so
my kindergartners might knowhungry, so I can highlight the
word famished in a picture book.
(15:20):
So I evaluate for, I'm sorry, Iexplain two different kinds of
words words that you just haveto know in the meaning of the
book or, as opposed to words Ireally want to teach.
There certainly are lots andlots of vocabulary words and
books.
We can't get to them all.
So some of those words I justwant to explain and move on.
(15:40):
Other words I'm really going tosort of teach at a deep level,
also in that step two, I explain, and what I do with explaining
is I explain what I'm doing as aproficient reader to make
meaning of text throughthink-alouds.
I use those first personnarrative think-alouds to
explain how I'm making meaningand I love think-alouds.
(16:05):
I have written a fair amountabout them In my experience.
We've got all this data,observational data, assessment
data, all sorts of knowledgeabout our kids are struggling to
comprehend.
So what do we do?
Well, we typically ask themquestions, which really isn't
actually building theircomprehension, it's just getting
(16:26):
more data to evaluate theircomprehension.
But a think-aloud is like I'mcracking my head open and
talking through the invisibleprocess of making meaning.
So I might say something likehmm, I'm getting the sense here
that the teacher is frustratedby how the kids are behaving and
you can see that first personnarrative.
(16:46):
That's how I show my thinkingto my kids, so I explain it all
and then in my third and finalstop sorry, in my third and
final step I engage and I extend.
So I engage my kids incross-curricular activities, and
there are just so manydifferent ways.
(17:08):
This is where we get to shineour creative lights on things
that we're passionate about, andI also really look for
literacy-rich activities, soideas to extend the meaning of
the book in reading, writing,thinking, reading, writing,
speaking and listening andreally being purposeful about
their connection to literacy.
Lori (17:29):
That is such a clear landscape of three steps, what
to do.
Again, I wish you were with me.
You know, 20 years ago, molly,or you wrote this 20, I'm glad
you wrote it now, is it?
It might be helpful to walk usthrough an example.
Do you have an example youcould walk us through?
Molly Ness (17:47):
Sure, well, the one that I often walk through is
Knuffle Bunny by Mo Willems, andI do this book because so many
of us know and love Mo Willemsand because it's a relatively
simple text.
But I want to sort of highlighthow we could do that in just a
simple text.
So just a refresher if peopleit's been a while since they've
(18:09):
read Knuffle Bunny or they don'tknow it.
It's about a little girl namedTrixie who lives in an urban
area.
She walks down the block withher dad to the laundromat.
While she's walking she'sclutching her beloved stuffed
animal.
They get to the laundromat,trixie helps her dad in the
laundromat, although reallyshe's, you know, being a
(18:30):
preschooler and sort of beingcrazy and silly and playful.
They walk back home and Trixierealizes her beloved stuffed
animal has gone.
She tries to tell her dad, butshe speaks toddler ease and her
dad can't understand her.
They get home, trixie's mominstantly recognizes the problem
and says where's Knuffle Bunny?
(18:52):
And the rest of the story isthem running back to the
laundromat searching for thestuffed animal and the first
words that Trixie ever says areKnuffle Bunny.
So let's start with number one,evaluating sources of potential
confusion as well as opportunity.
So here to me is a greatopportunity for background
(19:15):
knowledge versus funds ofknowledge.
So background knowledge my kidshave to know what a laundromat
is.
There are lots of kids whodon't.
Maybe they have a washer anddryer in their home.
Maybe they have somebody whodoes the laundry for them.
Maybe they, you know, whatevertheir home situation is, they
have to know that the laundromatis a public space where anybody
(19:36):
can go to do their laundry.
They also have to know sort ofwhat it means to go down the
block.
If you have a kid who's livingon a farm in Texas, who has
never seen a city block, youhave to understand that.
It is a meaning of, it's a unitof distance or a measurement.
But there's also some importantfunds of knowledge here, like
(19:57):
what I mean, those culturalcapitals.
The way that my family operatesis different than your family
and there are certainly things.
First of all, not every kid hasa beloved stuffed animal.
So some kids, if they don'thave a stuffed animal that they
just drag with them everywhere,might be like well, what's the
big deal?
She's lost her.
You know her stuffed rabbits.
(20:17):
No, no big deal.
Another cultural norm in thisbook is that Trixie's dad is the
one who leaves to go do thelaundry.
That's the family in thisfamily, their dynamic of
household chores, not the samein every family.
So that may be a potentialstumbling block.
So I would say to my kids inthis book the book takes place
(20:39):
in a laundromat Maybe I show aGoogle image picture of a
laundromat, maybe I talk to themvery briefly about who does the
chores in your home.
So I'm sort of getting some ofthose ideas out there so they're
going to be successful tointeract with the text.
Then as I read the text Ihighlight my important
(21:00):
vocabulary Off the top of myhead.
I remember the word bald.
Trixie is so upset she ballsand she goes boneless.
And those of us who have hadtoddler tantrums experience, we
know what that's like.
But we have to explain itdoesn't literally mean when she
went boneless her bones fell outof her body.
It just means she's so upsetthat she, you know, goes limp
(21:24):
and she bawled great.
Tier two vocabulary my kidsknow cry.
So I can give them a moresophisticated way to say it and
say falling here means she'scrying so heavily she can't talk
.
So then at the end of the book,after I've wrapped up with my
think-alouds, where I've crackedup in my head and made my
invisible process ofunderstanding visible to my kids
(21:48):
.
I would do some extensionactivities.
I might pull in some geometry.
We might talk about city blocksand do some math around how
many steps or how many feet gointo a block, or depending on
whatever the mathematics skillsof my students are.
This was one of the areas thatI feel like I needed a little
(22:09):
bit more support.
As an early teacher I would dothese activities which were kind
of like the cutesy art thingsbut didn't really have a
connection to literacy.
So if I'm having my kids docoloring of here's a stuffed
animal, color it to make it looklike your stuffed animal, well,
how is that helping my kidswith reading, writing, speaking
(22:31):
or listening?
And if I can't really justifythe connection to reading,
writing, speaking or listening,I'm doing a cutesy activity and
not a literacy rich activity.
And my instructional time is soprecious I have to allot it for
those literacy rich activities.
Melissa (22:48):
Do you have any other examples of good literacy rich
activities?
Molly For Nuffle Bunny, thespecific text, yeah, or just in
general.
I'm just like imaginingteachers going oh gosh, am I
doing a literacy rich activityor am I doing a cutesy activity?
Molly Ness (23:03):
Yeah, and I think honestly, I think, if you can
justify it, this activity buildsblank my students blank by
blank.
So this activity so if you haveyour kids turn and talk to
their neighbor, how might Trixiehave felt when she lost her
bunny and you say, turn and talkto your neighbor, that's
(23:25):
facilitating oral language.
If you are able to say I ambuilding my students blank
language by blank, having theminteract and engage in
conversational turns with theneighbor, that's a literacy rich
activity.
But if I'm doing something thatis taking paper plates and
building paper plates, buildinga washing machine out of paper
(23:47):
plates cutesy activity more thana literacy rich.
And certainly there are allsorts of creative ways to make
some of these kind of artactivities engaging in literacy
rich.
We could write directions, wecould do step by step things if
that's our focus.
But we just have to be reallyclear on what is my focus here.
(24:07):
What am I building?
Lori (24:09):
So helpful.
I love the frame of like how dowe justify it in these reading,
writing, speaking and listening?
That is really helpful to mebecause I know sometimes I see
things and I'm like, oh okay,that feels like a stretch, but
I'm not sure exactly why, andyou just named it really clearly
.
Like my students are doing thisand it's helping them with this
(24:30):
.
That's really helpful, Thankyou.
Molly Ness (24:33):
Yeah, and I don't ever want to sort of say like
there's no time or place forsome of these activities.
You know, the Friday beforeHalloween at 2.30, is it okay to
have kids color pumpkins?
Sure, I, you know I get it, butthat's not how we want to spend
the vast majority of ourinstructional time.
Our students need that literacysupport so that reading,
(24:57):
writing, speaking and listening.
Melissa (24:59):
All right, so you mentioned that this can happen
outside of ELA class as well, soI'm wondering if you could talk
a little bit about that,because I know that that's
probably something difficult forteachers.
Is okay, how do I take this andapply it to science or social
studies or medicine?
Molly Ness (25:17):
Sure, sure, and I will say that part of the book
is a whole section on how toread aloud in music class.
In music you can take, thereare so many musicians Coldplay
and Bob Dylan and ArethaFranklin, all these people who
have picture book versions oftheir song lyrics.
(25:39):
Song lyrics are essentiallypoetry, so maybe you have the
kids read the book and imaginewhat the music might be and then
you play the actual song forthem and compare and contrast
the differences between whatthey envision and what the
actual book is.
So I'm just focusing on music,but there's even ways to do it
in physical education.
(26:01):
I believe that the same processcan happen across content areas,
but I think we have to bemindful that, as content area
teachers are, read aloud maylook differently.
It may not look like the 15solid minutes of sitting in your
rocking chair doing a beginning, middle and end start to cover
book.
It might be.
(26:22):
You know, I read aloud forthree minutes from a speech that
a politician that we'restudying made, or a war decree
in whatever history you knowwe're studying, or in a science
class I can take a newspaperarticle.
You know, today, as we talk, weare living through this
(26:45):
particularly hot week.
There's all these newspaperstories about rising
temperatures.
Well, grab a newspaper and do ayou know 10, 10 minute read
aloud of the of the paper, so itdoesn't have to be a picture
book.
There's so many things to readaloud from speeches and letters
(27:05):
and newspaper articles andmagazine articles and the sports
page for our PE teachers that Ithink we sort of have to just
fight the notion that a readaloud is like rocking chair
picture book.
It doesn't have to be thatexperience.
Lori (27:23):
Such a good point.
You know it's interestingbecause Melissa and I love,
obviously, like Tim Shanahan andhe recently I'll bring this up
because I think it's so fun tothink about he recently did a
podcast, but I don't want to saybut, and it's his weekly blog,
he's reading it and I lovehearing his voice, I love
(27:44):
listening to it and it's funnybecause I feel like the first
time I listened to it I was likewait, I don't think this is
like an actual podcast by thedefinition of a podcast.
I think it's a read aloud whichis thoroughly enjoyable, but it,
you know it's.
It confused me for a minute andthen I was like, okay, it's
really a read aloud of his blog,which I actually prefer
listening to rather than readingbecause I love hearing his
(28:07):
voice.
So it's just, it's just reallyfunny that, you know, even as an
adult, I'm like, oh, okay, now,like we have this podcast forum
, but he's really doing a readaloud on that podcast forum and
I think it's so fun to listen tothat.
But it's, it's doing that in away that brings me the content.
That like content.
Like you just said, right, it'san article that comes out
weekly, it's a blog that comesout weekly and now I have
(28:29):
another way to access that as anadult.
Molly Ness (28:32):
And you're.
You're tapping into somethingthat I, as an adult reader, do.
When my book group chooses abook that I think is tough to
get into, I start listening toit as an audio book.
It's my entry point, andusually what I find is that by
activating my backgroundknowledge and setting the
(28:54):
context and all of those thingsthat listening does, I'm then
more likely to be able tocontinue the book as the
traditional you know, read thehard copy or read on my Kindle
or what have you.
So I think that's an importantthing that we can keep in
consideration for our kids aswell, that, as we have them
listen to a read aloud, be it usor be it the, you know the
(29:17):
podcast or even publishers noware coming out with audio files
of their textbook.
That that's a great entry wayinto difficult text.
Lori (29:29):
Yeah, I feel like that's a perfect transition to talking
about students at all gradelevels.
Like I know you mentioned inthe beginning and we've been,
you've been reiterating itthroughout like, read alouds are
not just rocking chair K2, youknow kindergarten experiences
and I know that was some of myfavorite time as a fifth grade
teacher.
Melissa, I'm so glad that youhad that conversation with the
(29:51):
fifth grade teacher recently.
Like I have such fond memoriesof reading to my students.
I, even when I taught highschool, I read aloud to my
students and I they were alwayssurprised, you know, and I just
thought, oh, this is like agreat time to calm yourself down
and and listen.
But I'm wondering about thebenefits of reading you know,
allowed to students at all gradelevels, and is there different
(30:12):
purposes at different ages?
Molly Ness (30:15):
Well, the purpose, I think, for all of readers and
is that language comprehension,that we are giving them exposure
to background knowledge, thatwe are activating their purposes
for reading and theirmotivation, not to mention all
of the socio-emotional benefitsthat come from listening to a
read aloud.
When we read aloud to a largersecondary class, we are opening
(30:41):
the door for juicy conversationsby sharing a common text.
So I think there's so muchbenefit around that.
But we also know that kidscomprehension it lags behind
their listening comprehensionuntil about seventh or eighth
grade, meaning that we, as weread aloud to kids, we are able
(31:04):
to give them access andopportunity to more difficult
texts and they would be able toencounter on their own.
And that is so important,especially for our kids who may
be struggling readers to gain,to sort of equalize the playing
field in terms of theirbackground knowledge and the
content that they need access toto become proficient readers.
(31:25):
So we really have to be mindfulthat it isn't until late middle
school that our comprehensionand our listening comprehension
sort of start to match.
Melissa (31:36):
That's really helpful.
Molly, I have a question in mymind and I don't have it fully
formed yet, so we'll see whereit goes.
But what I was just thinkingwhen you were talking is that
you know, when I was a teacher,I felt sometimes like I used
read alouds really well andother times when I didn't
necessarily and I think thetimes I did match up with the
things you're talking aboutwhich is like this is going to
(31:56):
be a really tough text for mystudents, or section of a text
for my students.
So we're going to, you know,I'm going to read it out loud to
them and work through ittogether, or I just want to like
show them my thinking in someway that I don't think that
they'll be able to do.
But other times, I will say, Ifelt like I was just like we
need to move through this fast.
So I'm going to read it outloud and I'm wondering if you
(32:19):
have any like cautions againstthat, like just reading out loud
just to kind of rush through atext, versus like all this
really rich discussion and thetalk of read alouds that you're
talking about today.
Molly Ness (32:33):
Yeah, well, I think we also.
We have to be mindful that thereis that, that what you talked
about is actually a strategy, apurposeful strategy that
effective, proficient readersuse.
They adjust their speed for areading, either silently or
(32:54):
orally, according to theirpurpose, their engagement, all
of those things.
I'm a reader that when Iencounter, you know, paragraphs
of really descriptive languageof a setting, I'm like flip,
flip, flip, get me to the action.
And that's actually usingstrategy and purposeful.
And if you think about, youknow the Scarborough's Rope,
(33:15):
those two strands comingtogether are with intention and
strategy and purpose.
So I think it's okay to speedthrough parts of a read aloud
that may not be as engaging, orto choose parts of a read aloud
that are more difficult.
Or, and I think it's alsoreally important to say to our
(33:35):
kids I'm going to read thisparagraph has a lot of juicy
language, so I'm going to readit out loud to you, the next
page you guys are going to readon your own, so that you're sort
of alerting kids of theexplicitness of what you're
doing as you read aloud and asyou model whatever you're going
to do in that particular moment.
Melissa (33:57):
Yeah, what I'm hearing you say is like it really
matters as a teacher to planthat out.
Your number one, what was the Efor that one?
Evaluate.
Evaluate the text for thosedifferent purposes, like when
does it make sense for you to?
You know, you might not alwayshave all those questions to ask
and think alouds to do andvocabulary.
It might sometimes be justreading more quickly and you, if
(34:20):
you evaluate the text, you canplan that out and at times it
might.
This is the time when it makessense for the students to be
reading and it sounds likeyou're saying, molly too, that I
would say even more as in theolder grades it might go back
and forth, like it doesn't haveto necessarily be a set.
I'm reading aloud for 20minutes.
That's all that's happening inthis time.
Lori (34:43):
Like a gradual release Right, like it's not going to
look like that, so like neat andclean.
Molly Ness (34:49):
Absolutely, and one of the things?
I spent nearly two decades as auniversity professor working in
pre-service teacher preparationand I went into one of my
pre-service teachers classroomsto do a observation and her read
aloud was pulling up a video ofsomebody else doing a read
(35:12):
aloud.
They you know there's so manyout there, they're on YouTube
and you know the storylineonlinenet, and they were so
prevalent during the pandemic asall sorts of publishers and
authors were allowing people todo videos and those hold a
certain purpose, but what theymiss is they miss the
(35:34):
opportunity for theinteractiveness of a read aloud.
They miss the opportunity for ateacher to literally read the
room of how her students areresponding and either looking
confused or looking really bored, and they just don't allow us
the flexibility that we would tobe to be responsive to our kids
(35:55):
in that classroom moment.
Melissa (35:57):
And that kind of connects to what you're saying.
Like coming back to theaudiobooks, right, Like there
might be a certain purpose forusing audiobooks that have a
great benefit, but you also wantto do this interactive part of
a read aloud, which you couldn'tdo with an audiobook.
Molly Ness (36:11):
For sure, and we adjust our instruction day by
day and even minute by minute.
So I certainly think, as longas we're able to rationalize our
decisions, I am going to readthis paragraph out loud because
of this, or I'm going to havekids partner read here, or I'm
going to have them read silentlyhere, whatever, as long as
(36:34):
you're able to justify it.
But again, we really need tomake sure that those read alouds
continue, particularly in theareas that we know they're
declining, which is upperelementary school, which is
secondary school, which is thosecontent area classrooms.
Lori (36:51):
So, Molly, what would you say?
We read aloud in content areaclassrooms.
Like can you give?
I know you shared earlier, butlike can you give a practical
example to a teacher listening,Sure, so?
Molly Ness (37:03):
let's choose.
Well, I think I talked througha music one, yeah.
So if I were an art teacherthere are so many biographies of
particular artists there are.
You know, there's a fabulouspicture book about the inventor
of Crayola crayons that I couldread to my kindergartners.
(37:25):
Every kindergartner usescrayons in some capacity.
If I were a gym teacher and Iwere introducing whatever new
sport, I could go to the.
Let's just say, for example, Iam teaching volleyball.
Well, there's a NationalVolleyball Federation.
I could go to their website andpull up the rules of volleyball
(37:46):
and, rather than me explainingthem, I could literally read the
kids the rules and then thinkaloud, because chances are,
those rules that are written inthe very formal language are not
going to be immediatelyaccessible to my kids.
If I were in a science classroomI mean science there's just so
many ways that it's hard for meto just choose one I actually,
(38:12):
in the book I talk through,using picture books as an entry
point into really difficultscientific concepts.
The math example I use isfractals, and the science
example I use is a book aboutnanospectography, which is like
the really complex chemistryexplanations.
(38:35):
I was a terrible high schoolstudent, but I know if my
teacher had pulled out a picturebook that's an explanation of
you know, in a social studiesclass.
Here's the picture book versionof you know, the history of the
Middle East peace crisis.
Or here's a picture book thatexplains you know, evaporation
(38:56):
or what have you.
It would give me an entry pointwhich builds the background
knowledge for whatever text thatI am then going to use on a in
a deeper read.
Melissa (39:08):
And I'll just say Molly, because I have a four
year old and that's why I'mreading books all the time to
him and I learned so much,especially science, to be honest
with you.
I mean the planets, the sun andthe moon, the volcanoes, like
you name it, like all thesekinds of things that they're.
They're very easy to understand, but you get a lot of
(39:28):
information from them.
Molly Ness (39:30):
There are and talk about like making things
accessible.
The other thing that we knowabout the data around read
alouds is that the vast majorityof read alouds are older books.
They are the books that weloved, and I did this myself.
I remember reading the bookHatchet to my kids.
(39:51):
My sixth grade kids who livedin the middle of downtown
Oakland had no outdoorsyexperience.
This was before you know the TVshows about survivor and things
like that.
It was a total flop, and I thinkwe also have to have the
courage to abandon a read aloud.
That isn't going well.
But I think we also have topush ourselves to read aloud
(40:16):
from things that are morecurrent and not just always go
to that.
Oh, I read this book every year, mike.
I love it.
So therefore, my kids love it.
Because there are so many, it'shard to stay on top and with
the current publications, ofjust how much comes out on a
daily basis and the richness ofthe diversity of not only the
(40:36):
content but who's writing it andthe perspective and all those
things, and so at the end of thebook I provide some lists of.
Here are some of my favoriteawards, resources, ways to stay
current, because what we know isthat most teachers sort of
revert to the read alouds thatthey always do, or they're just
(40:57):
a small minority.
Of read alouds today are booksthat are published within the
last five years.
Lori (41:03):
Yeah, I those examples are so helpful.
I can't wait to check out thelist in your book.
But I do want to say to likethank you for expanding my view
on that.
Like the gym example that yougave, for example, reading the
volleyball directions, that's, Ithink, a really cool example.
That really helped me kind oflike conceptualize it and put it
(41:24):
in for different content areas,because a lot of times it seems
like, all right, I can get thisfor ELA, I got this for for
science, for social studies orhistory, but like, what would I
do in gym, what would I do inart or music?
So thank you for those extendedexamples and that's such a good
example.
Like the directions might havethat language that is a little
(41:46):
bit more formal, and then that'sa great opportunity for that
think aloud and making thatthinking visible.
So thank you for that and itdoes, I think, provide all of
the like the Velcro for theknowledge that's about to happen
, coming forward.
Molly Ness (42:00):
So, yeah, and it's an exciting, as in the last
couple of years, all of thiscoverage around the science of
reading has emerged.
We're now, I think, starting tosee more conversations about
the importance of languagecomprehension and background
knowledge, thanks to you know,podcasts like yours and the work
of people like Natalie Wexler,and so all of these, as we think
(42:23):
about the purpose of a readaloud, be it a kindergarten
classroom or an eighth gradeclassroom, it is all about that
language comprehension, that topart, those unconstrained parts
of Scarborough's rope, and sowhen we think about how to read
aloud fit into the science ofreading, well, you can't talk
about the science of readingwithout language comprehension.
(42:45):
And how do you build that andactivate that and scaffold it
and support it for kids throughread?
Melissa (42:49):
alouds.
Yeah, because we know that.
We hear some people who say,you know, wait until they get
the, get the decoding down andthen they'll learn, then they
can read on their own to learnall of the language
comprehension parts.
But we know, we all know, wecan't wait until then.
Molly Ness (43:10):
Absolutely not, and we have.
Yeah, we also have to remindour older kids just as we can't
wait with the younger kids, wealso have to show our older kids
, if they are in their, you know, sixth grade social studies
class or their eighth grademusic class, that reading
matters to us, it matters to ourclassroom culture and it's how
(43:30):
we build our knowledge, and aread aloud is a great way to
model that.
Melissa (43:35):
Yeah, and I love what you said.
I'll just like put a stamp onthat, too, is that it also is an
opportunity to read text thatwould be really difficult for
the students to read.
Right, Then you have theopportunity to be able to help
them through a text that,instead of letting them struggle
through it, you can help themthrough it.
Well, Molly, is there anythingelse about read alouds that you
want to touch on before we wrapup?
Molly Ness (43:58):
Well, I do just want to point out that I
specifically focused on Kthrough eight.
But I don't want the message tobe that high school teachers
and college teachers and youknow people of working with
learners of all ages there is nounintended message here that
(44:19):
read aloud should stop at gradeeight.
So I, you know I so lovehearing about high school
teachers who it's a part oftheir classroom, but my specific
focus was on grade throughgrade eight.
But that does not in any waysay that you know we stop
reading aloud when kids move onto high school or what have you.
Melissa (44:38):
And before kindergarten too.
Right, Absolutely.
Lori (44:42):
Yes, love that.
Thank you for that.
So do you want to share thetitle of your book and tell us a
little bit about it?
Molly Ness (44:49):
Sure.
So it's a solution treepublication and I believe it's
actually one of solution treesfirst forays into literacy.
They have a whole lot ofprofessional development
material for other content areasbut not as much in literacy and
it's called Read Aloud for AllLearners and I was thrilled to
have Natalie Wexler, who I knowhas been a frequent visitor on
(45:12):
your podcast, write the fourword and I will also offer that
there's a huge amount ofresearch in it and if you are a
teacher or a learner or whateveryour role is, that actually
wants the direct research like,if you want to dig into the PDF
of the research and can't get toit because it's behind a
(45:33):
paywall, I will happily share itwith you.
So don't let that stop yourlearning just because it's you
know in an academic journal thatyou don't have access to.
Lori (45:43):
Thank you, Molly.
And so it's Read Alouds for AllLearners, and Molly Ness is our
guest today.
We'll have this linked in theshow notes and, molly, we will
make sure we have a way forlisteners to get in contact with
you if they'd like the researchthrough our show notes as well.
Molly Ness (46:02):
I would love to follow up with anybody who's
who's interested in more, andalso to hear your ideas.
I mean, teachers could not bethe more.
They are the most innovative,creative people and to hear how
people are reading aloud in waysthat I couldn't even think of,
because I know they're out thereand happening on a daily basis
(46:22):
in classrooms all over.
Lori (46:24):
Yeah, we've had teachers actually send us videos before
like on Facebook and stuff fromthe things that we've talked
about on the podcast and they'relike I do it this way in my
classroom.
That's so fun, I love that.
Molly Ness (46:34):
I hope I get some of those.
Lori (46:35):
I would love that, see, maybe we can get some Read Aloud
videos.
Yeah, we can send them.
We can send them along to you,molly, perfect Well, thank you.
This was so helpful andinformative and, like most
importantly, super practical.
I just I'm so grateful that youcame on the podcast to share
this and that you wrote a book.
(46:55):
Thank you for doing that.
Molly Ness (46:57):
Well, it's every time I do a book I say I'm never
doing one another one again,and then so we'll see.
This might be my last, but whoknows.
So I look forward to feedbackand in ongoing conversations
from whoever has dug into it.
Melissa (47:14):
Sounds great.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Lori (47:20):
Thanks for listening.
Literacy Lovers, To stayconnected with us, sign up for
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Melissa (47:29):
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Lori (47:38):
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Melissa (47:48):
Just a quick reminder that the views and opinions
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Love Literacy Podcast are notnecessarily the opinions of
Great Minds PBC or its employees.
Lori (48:01):
We appreciate you so much and we're so glad you're here to
learn with us.
You're listening to Melissa and Lori Love Literacy.
Today we'll be talking toeducator and author Molly Ness
about intentionally planning forread-alouds.
Molly will share aneasy-to-prepare protocol for
read-aloud in any grade level orcontent area.
Lori (00:19):
Welcome teacher friend.
I'm Lori and I'm Melissa.
We are two literacy educatorsin Baltimore.
Melissa (00:26):
We want the best for all kids and we know you do too.
Our district recently adopted anew literacy curriculum, which
meant a lot of change foreveryone, Lori and I can't wait
to keep learning about literacywith you today.
Lori (00:43):
Hi everyone, Welcome to Melissa and Lori Love Literacy.
We're so excited because todaywe are diving deep into
read-alouds and sharingpractical tips for teachers.
Melissa (00:54):
And we're here with a returning guest, Molly Ness.
She's a former teacher, aprofessor, an author and
currently vice president ofacademic content at Learning
Ally.
And, most exciting, sherecently wrote a book titled
Read-Alds for All Learners.
Molly Ness (01:11):
Welcome, Molly.
Thanks for having me.
I'm so excited to be here.
Lori (01:15):
Yeah, we can't wait.
This is going to be such a funepisode.
We get so many questions aboutread-alouds and I just think
this is practical for teachersin every grade, and we got a
sneak preview of your book Superawesome.
So a little plug there for that.
We'll also have you share moreabout that at the end, if that's
OK.
Really practical.
Molly Ness (01:36):
Thank you.
Yeah, I tried to write the bookthat I wish I had as as an
early career teacher, to help meplan my read-alouds.
Lori (01:44):
Yeah, so important.
Melissa (01:46):
Well, that feels like a good place to start, yeah, and
I think we should start justeven with what is a read-aloud.
I know that seems like such asimple question, but I think we
often have differentinterpretations of what that
term means, so I'm going to letyou jump in to talk about what
it is.
Sure Well.
Molly Ness (02:05):
I'm specifically focusing on the interactive
language-rich experience betweena teacher and a child or a
group of children, and we knowthat there are so many different
formats of read-alouds.
Kids can read to each other,kids can read to stuffed animals
or dogs, Parents can read tochildren and there is powerful
(02:26):
research about all of those aswell.
But I was really looking at theteacher facilitated read-aloud
across content areas and reallyK through eight.
I want to push against the ideathat read-alouds are the
purview of our early childhoodeducators or even our childhood
educators, or that read-aloudsbelong only in the reading block
(02:50):
.
So the focus really is readinga loud teacher in front of
whatever grade level of studentspre-K through eight and
integrating those read-alouds inall different content areas and
times of the day.
Melissa (03:04):
I wanted to ask about that.
There's one part of your bookthat talks about audio books and
it stuck out to me when I wasthinking about is there is an
audio book or read-aloud?
Does that count?
Molly Ness (03:14):
Yeah.
So I actually dug into thisresearch a little bit because
when my daughter was doing herread-a-thon at her elementary
school, we logged in all of theminutes that we listened to an
audio book, and because wetravel far for different sports
competitions, we had just a tonof minutes and nobody believed
(03:35):
that we had quote unquote readso many minutes, and so it
actually started this wholegreat conversation.
Does read-aloud, does listeningto a read-aloud, have the same
benefits?
Does it count?
And we have some reallycompelling research from people
like Stanislaus Dehan, who Iknow we all have sort of a fan
girl reading crush on, whoexplains that the language parts
(03:58):
of the brain go through thesame activation, involvement,
engagement when we listen to abook as when we actually read it
.
So, in the words of DanielWillingham, which I actually
borrow for the book fly thataudio book flag loud and proud,
because there is such a benefit.
Lori (04:17):
Oh, I love that.
And actually I love thatbecause I just bought his book
on audio book.
So I had his book on me too.
Ok, that actually is reallyawesome, Molly.
I'm so glad that we talkedabout that.
Melissa, that was a reallyreally good question and I love
that you brought that up likeright off the bat.
So thank you for that info.
(04:38):
So, Molly, if we could thinkabout why read alouds are
important and what the researchsays about them, that would be
really helpful.
Molly Ness (04:47):
Sure, well as grateful as I am for this sort
of particular moment in ourliteracy landscape where there's
so much conversation about thescience of reading, I have felt
it has been really focused onthe constrained skills of word
recognition and decoding, and sothere's been some sort of
misinformation or confusionaround.
(05:08):
Well, where do read alouds fitin the science of reading, and
my argument and all of the datashows that that read alouds are
really probably the mosteffective research based way to
facilitate languagecomprehension growth.
So when we think about thatScarborough rope, as we all love
(05:30):
and know so well, read aloudsare the way that we get to build
background knowledge, exposekids to funds of knowledge,
introduce vocabulary and all ofthose meaningful, unconstrained
skills which contribute so muchto comprehension.
So there's been I'm trying toalso push against the idea that
(05:50):
read alouds say that the scienceof reading says there's no time
or place for read alouds.
In fact, the research is reallycompelling and we actually know
some pretty fascinatingresearch.
I think we're all sort offamiliar with the research that
shows that read alouds increasekids early language skills,
vocabulary, those sorts ofthings.
(06:11):
But I also found some stuffthat was pretty interesting.
So, in particular, I was justblown away by some research that
shows physiological benefits ofread alouds, and let me walk
through an experiment thathappened in a neonatal intensive
care unit.
So a researcher based out ofUniversity of Virginia looked at
(06:33):
what happened to read alouds ofmedically fragile babies.
So these were babies that hadbeen born prematurely.
They were sort of connected toall sorts of wires and
monitoring and in those sort ofincubators and what would happen
when parents read aloud to them.
So we know that parents whohave children in the neonatal
(06:58):
intensive unit often are.
They struggle with how tointeract with their baby.
They're fragile, they're alittle intimidated by the
machinery and such, and sooftentimes mothers in particular
go through periods ofpostpartum depression.
They can't take their baby'shome as well as they might have
been able to, or to medicallyrobust baby.
(07:19):
So this experiment created threedifferent types of reading A
whisper read for very shortdurations of time period for the
really most medically fragilebabies, all the way up to sort
of a normal speaking longerduration, to the babies that
were just about to be discharged.
And what the researchers foundis that those babies their
(07:43):
oxygen rates increased and theirheart beats decreased, meaning
all of those things that happenin our body when we are relaxed,
when we are enjoyingexperiences.
And not only did we see thatincrease in oxygen level and the
decrease in heart rate duringthe read aloud, it lasted for
(08:04):
about 20 minutes, 20 to 30minutes after the read aloud.
And these interviewers, theseresearchers, actually then went
and interviewed parents as welland the mothers who were
experiencing postpartumdepression said that they felt
better, they knew what to do nowwith their babies they weren't
sure how to interact with thempreviously and now we have hand
(08:25):
them a book and they know whatto do and that they were more
determined to read aloud totheir babies after taking them
home.
So we start to seephysiological benefits and we're
seeing it in adults that whenpeople in adulthood listen to
read alouds, we see an increasein neurotransmitters like
oxytocin, the neurotransmitterthat deals with pleasure and
(08:49):
enjoyment.
So some pretty compellingresearch that's just starting to
look at not only how arelinguistic, our vocabulary, all
those literacy skills, butliterally how listening to a
read aloud shapes our body andtransforms us.
Melissa (09:03):
It's such a fascinating study.
I know I can't believe like whowould have even thought to do
that.
I think that's so cool.
Lori (09:10):
Yeah, I felt like I was having story time and I wanted
you to tell me this what, 12years ago or 11 years ago, when
Press was in the NICU, I wouldhave done it.
Molly Ness (09:21):
Yes, and actually another set of researchers
looked at children who werehospitalized and found that when
they listen to read alouds,their levels their self reported
levels of pain and discomfortdecreased just by listening to a
read aloud.
So lots and lots of compellingresearch around read alouds, not
(09:44):
just in the classroom but in,you know, life settings and all
these different conditions.
But of course we're here totalk about read alouds in the
classroom.
Melissa (09:53):
Yeah, but I was going to say real quick before we move
from that.
I do feel like I hear a lot ofteachers who say this is one of
their favorite times you know ofthe day.
So when they get to just readaloud to their students and
wonder if it's a similar, youknow similar things happening.
Molly Ness (10:08):
Sure, and that takes me back to my first classroom
experience.
I was a classroom teacher inOakland, California, and there
was the time of day that kidscame back all revved up, amped
up from recess slash lunch.
You know they're all sweatybecause we were in California.
They were ready to, you know,recount the drama and conflict
(10:34):
on the playground and that Ididn't know much as a first year
teacher.
But I knew that they needed tolike sit and calm their bodies
and refocus their energy, andfor us the read aloud was that
period.
So it was our, our sort ofwelcome back to class.
Let's recenter, let's refocus,let's transition.
(10:55):
And at the time then I didn'tknow all of the other benefits
of it, I just knew it was aneasy, enjoyable transition for
all of us.
Melissa (11:05):
So I just met with a fifth grade teacher and she has
said the same exact thing.
She, she, I saw her schedulethat was listed on the day and
she had read aloud right afterthey came back from lunch and
recess.
And I asked her about it and Icould see her like trying to
defend it, as if I was going tolike like why did you use that
time for that?
That's not on the list ofthings you're supposed to do.
(11:26):
And I was like I think that'sthe perfect thing to do at that
time.
It's like right, right at theright time for for just like you
said, like recentering andletting them calm, but also
you're getting so many otherbenefits from it too.
Right, not just calming, but itdoes have that effect too.
Well, can we jump into somenitty gritty specifics now?
(11:48):
Sure, all right.
So in your book you actuallyshare a really clear three step
process for planning read alouds.
So I'm wondering if you couldwalk our listeners through those
steps and how they help to setthem up for success for reading
aloud.
Molly Ness (12:07):
Sure.
Well, let me just back up witha tiny bit of context to those
steps.
So another thing that I waspretty.
I was pretty surprised to findthat we know there's a decline
in read alouds.
Right now read alouds aredecreasing, not only in
frequency but certainlydecreasing as kids get older.
(12:29):
So you know, k through twoteachers might read aloud more
frequently than you know a fifthgrade teacher or seventh grade
teacher.
But to me the most staggeringstudy I found and it resonates
with me when I was an earlycareer teacher is that 50 to 70%
of teachers don't plan theirread alouds Other than here's
(12:50):
the book I'm going to read.
They don't go through andexamine for instructional
opportunities and stoppingpoints and all of those things.
And what we know is that whenwe look at the read aloud is
just sort of a impromptu I'llhave some brilliant
instructional moment come to meas I'm reading.
We miss opportunities.
(13:11):
And actually there's been somediscourse analysis studies of
the language that teachers usewhile reading aloud, when they
plan intentionally versus whenit's sort of that more impromptu
experience.
And teachers tend to use morelow level questions.
They tend to focus onvocabulary which is not
(13:33):
necessarily that rich,meaningful, tier two vocabulary
like Beck talks about.
So I really I thought aboutthat myself, my when I was a
first year and early careerteacher, my read aloud was all
right.
I got 10 to 15 minutes.
Here are the pages I'm going toread and that's what I thought
planning a read aloud.
Now I know that planning is is amulti step process.
(13:55):
So for me, step number one isto evaluate what I do.
Is I evaluate the book forbackground knowledge, which
we've got so much greatconversation about the
importance of backgroundknowledge?
I extend it to include funds ofknowledge and not just
background knowledge.
Funds of knowledge sort ofbeing sort of the social norms
(14:18):
and cultural capitals thathappen in books as well.
So I evaluate for thebackground knowledge which the
text assumes that my kids aregoing to know or that they need
to know to bring to the page tomake meaning.
I also evaluate forinstructional opportunities,
like I really want to make surethat I focus on this portion.
(14:39):
So I just go through and Ievaluate what are the benefits,
what are the potential stumblingblocks, what do my kids need to
know to be successful inpreparing in reading this text?
In step number two, I explainand I engage, and I do two
(14:59):
different ways of explaining andengaging.
First of all, I focus onvocabulary and I mentioned
earlier those Isabelle Beck andher colleagues as they would
call them, those tier two words,those sophisticated words, so
my kindergartners might knowhungry, so I can highlight the
word famished in a picture book.
(15:20):
So I evaluate for, I'm sorry, Iexplain two different kinds of
words words that you just haveto know in the meaning of the
book or, as opposed to words Ireally want to teach.
There certainly are lots andlots of vocabulary words and
books.
We can't get to them all.
So some of those words I justwant to explain and move on.
(15:40):
Other words I'm really going tosort of teach at a deep level,
also in that step two, I explain, and what I do with explaining
is I explain what I'm doing as aproficient reader to make
meaning of text throughthink-alouds.
I use those first personnarrative think-alouds to
explain how I'm making meaningand I love think-alouds.
(16:05):
I have written a fair amountabout them In my experience.
We've got all this data,observational data, assessment
data, all sorts of knowledgeabout our kids are struggling to
comprehend.
So what do we do?
Well, we typically ask themquestions, which really isn't
actually building theircomprehension, it's just getting
(16:26):
more data to evaluate theircomprehension.
But a think-aloud is like I'mcracking my head open and
talking through the invisibleprocess of making meaning.
So I might say something likehmm, I'm getting the sense here
that the teacher is frustratedby how the kids are behaving and
you can see that first personnarrative.
(16:46):
That's how I show my thinkingto my kids, so I explain it all
and then in my third and finalstop sorry, in my third and
final step I engage and I extend.
So I engage my kids incross-curricular activities, and
there are just so manydifferent ways.
(17:08):
This is where we get to shineour creative lights on things
that we're passionate about, andI also really look for
literacy-rich activities, soideas to extend the meaning of
the book in reading, writing,thinking, reading, writing,
speaking and listening andreally being purposeful about
their connection to literacy.
Lori (17:29):
That is such a clear landscape of three steps, what
to do.
Again, I wish you were with me.
You know, 20 years ago, molly,or you wrote this 20, I'm glad
you wrote it now, is it?
It might be helpful to walk usthrough an example.
Do you have an example youcould walk us through?
Molly Ness (17:47):
Sure, well, the one that I often walk through is
Knuffle Bunny by Mo Willems, andI do this book because so many
of us know and love Mo Willemsand because it's a relatively
simple text.
But I want to sort of highlighthow we could do that in just a
simple text.
So just a refresher if peopleit's been a while since they've
(18:09):
read Knuffle Bunny or they don'tknow it.
It's about a little girl namedTrixie who lives in an urban
area.
She walks down the block withher dad to the laundromat.
While she's walking she'sclutching her beloved stuffed
animal.
They get to the laundromat,trixie helps her dad in the
laundromat, although reallyshe's, you know, being a
(18:30):
preschooler and sort of beingcrazy and silly and playful.
They walk back home and Trixierealizes her beloved stuffed
animal has gone.
She tries to tell her dad, butshe speaks toddler ease and her
dad can't understand her.
They get home, trixie's mominstantly recognizes the problem
and says where's Knuffle Bunny?
(18:52):
And the rest of the story isthem running back to the
laundromat searching for thestuffed animal and the first
words that Trixie ever says areKnuffle Bunny.
So let's start with number one,evaluating sources of potential
confusion as well as opportunity.
So here to me is a greatopportunity for background
(19:15):
knowledge versus funds ofknowledge.
So background knowledge my kidshave to know what a laundromat
is.
There are lots of kids whodon't.
Maybe they have a washer anddryer in their home.
Maybe they have somebody whodoes the laundry for them.
Maybe they, you know, whatevertheir home situation is, they
have to know that the laundromatis a public space where anybody
(19:36):
can go to do their laundry.
They also have to know sort ofwhat it means to go down the
block.
If you have a kid who's livingon a farm in Texas, who has
never seen a city block, youhave to understand that.
It is a meaning of, it's a unitof distance or a measurement.
But there's also some importantfunds of knowledge here, like
(19:57):
what I mean, those culturalcapitals.
The way that my family operatesis different than your family
and there are certainly things.
First of all, not every kid hasa beloved stuffed animal.
So some kids, if they don'thave a stuffed animal that they
just drag with them everywhere,might be like well, what's the
big deal?
She's lost her.
You know her stuffed rabbits.
(20:17):
No, no big deal.
Another cultural norm in thisbook is that Trixie's dad is the
one who leaves to go do thelaundry.
That's the family in thisfamily, their dynamic of
household chores, not the samein every family.
So that may be a potentialstumbling block.
So I would say to my kids inthis book the book takes place
(20:39):
in a laundromat Maybe I show aGoogle image picture of a
laundromat, maybe I talk to themvery briefly about who does the
chores in your home.
So I'm sort of getting some ofthose ideas out there so they're
going to be successful tointeract with the text.
Then as I read the text Ihighlight my important
(21:00):
vocabulary Off the top of myhead.
I remember the word bald.
Trixie is so upset she ballsand she goes boneless.
And those of us who have hadtoddler tantrums experience, we
know what that's like.
But we have to explain itdoesn't literally mean when she
went boneless her bones fell outof her body.
It just means she's so upsetthat she, you know, goes limp
(21:24):
and she bawled great.
Tier two vocabulary my kidsknow cry.
So I can give them a moresophisticated way to say it and
say falling here means she'scrying so heavily she can't talk
.
So then at the end of the book,after I've wrapped up with my
think-alouds, where I've crackedup in my head and made my
invisible process ofunderstanding visible to my kids
(21:48):
.
I would do some extensionactivities.
I might pull in some geometry.
We might talk about city blocksand do some math around how
many steps or how many feet gointo a block, or depending on
whatever the mathematics skillsof my students are.
This was one of the areas thatI feel like I needed a little
(22:09):
bit more support.
As an early teacher I would dothese activities which were kind
of like the cutesy art thingsbut didn't really have a
connection to literacy.
So if I'm having my kids docoloring of here's a stuffed
animal, color it to make it looklike your stuffed animal, well,
how is that helping my kidswith reading, writing, speaking
(22:31):
or listening?
And if I can't really justifythe connection to reading,
writing, speaking or listening,I'm doing a cutesy activity and
not a literacy rich activity.
And my instructional time is soprecious I have to allot it for
those literacy rich activities.
Melissa (22:48):
Do you have any other examples of good literacy rich
activities?
Molly For Nuffle Bunny, thespecific text, yeah, or just in
general.
I'm just like imaginingteachers going oh gosh, am I
doing a literacy rich activityor am I doing a cutesy activity?
Molly Ness (23:03):
Yeah, and I think honestly, I think, if you can
justify it, this activity buildsblank my students blank by
blank.
So this activity so if you haveyour kids turn and talk to
their neighbor, how might Trixiehave felt when she lost her
bunny and you say, turn and talkto your neighbor, that's
(23:25):
facilitating oral language.
If you are able to say I ambuilding my students blank
language by blank, having theminteract and engage in
conversational turns with theneighbor, that's a literacy rich
activity.
But if I'm doing something thatis taking paper plates and
building paper plates, buildinga washing machine out of paper
(23:47):
plates cutesy activity more thana literacy rich.
And certainly there are allsorts of creative ways to make
some of these kind of artactivities engaging in literacy
rich.
We could write directions, wecould do step by step things if
that's our focus.
But we just have to be reallyclear on what is my focus here.
(24:07):
What am I building?
Lori (24:09):
So helpful.
I love the frame of like how dowe justify it in these reading,
writing, speaking and listening?
That is really helpful to mebecause I know sometimes I see
things and I'm like, oh okay,that feels like a stretch, but
I'm not sure exactly why, andyou just named it really clearly
.
Like my students are doing thisand it's helping them with this
(24:30):
.
That's really helpful, Thankyou.
Molly Ness (24:33):
Yeah, and I don't ever want to sort of say like
there's no time or place forsome of these activities.
You know, the Friday beforeHalloween at 2.30, is it okay to
have kids color pumpkins?
Sure, I, you know I get it, butthat's not how we want to spend
the vast majority of ourinstructional time.
Our students need that literacysupport so that reading,
(24:57):
writing, speaking and listening.
Melissa (24:59):
All right, so you mentioned that this can happen
outside of ELA class as well, soI'm wondering if you could talk
a little bit about that,because I know that that's
probably something difficult forteachers.
Is okay, how do I take this andapply it to science or social
studies or medicine?
Molly Ness (25:17):
Sure, sure, and I will say that part of the book
is a whole section on how toread aloud in music class.
In music you can take, thereare so many musicians Coldplay
and Bob Dylan and ArethaFranklin, all these people who
have picture book versions oftheir song lyrics.
(25:39):
Song lyrics are essentiallypoetry, so maybe you have the
kids read the book and imaginewhat the music might be and then
you play the actual song forthem and compare and contrast
the differences between whatthey envision and what the
actual book is.
So I'm just focusing on music,but there's even ways to do it
in physical education.
(26:01):
I believe that the same processcan happen across content areas,
but I think we have to bemindful that, as content area
teachers are, read aloud maylook differently.
It may not look like the 15solid minutes of sitting in your
rocking chair doing a beginning, middle and end start to cover
book.
It might be.
(26:22):
You know, I read aloud forthree minutes from a speech that
a politician that we'restudying made, or a war decree
in whatever history you knowwe're studying, or in a science
class I can take a newspaperarticle.
You know, today, as we talk, weare living through this
(26:45):
particularly hot week.
There's all these newspaperstories about rising
temperatures.
Well, grab a newspaper and do ayou know 10, 10 minute read
aloud of the of the paper, so itdoesn't have to be a picture
book.
There's so many things to readaloud from speeches and letters
(27:05):
and newspaper articles andmagazine articles and the sports
page for our PE teachers that Ithink we sort of have to just
fight the notion that a readaloud is like rocking chair
picture book.
It doesn't have to be thatexperience.
Lori (27:23):
Such a good point.
You know it's interestingbecause Melissa and I love,
obviously, like Tim Shanahan andhe recently I'll bring this up
because I think it's so fun tothink about he recently did a
podcast, but I don't want to saybut, and it's his weekly blog,
he's reading it and I lovehearing his voice, I love
(27:44):
listening to it and it's funnybecause I feel like the first
time I listened to it I was likewait, I don't think this is
like an actual podcast by thedefinition of a podcast.
I think it's a read aloud whichis thoroughly enjoyable, but it,
you know it's.
It confused me for a minute andthen I was like, okay, it's
really a read aloud of his blog,which I actually prefer
listening to rather than readingbecause I love hearing his
(28:07):
voice.
So it's just, it's just reallyfunny that, you know, even as an
adult, I'm like, oh, okay, now,like we have this podcast forum
, but he's really doing a readaloud on that podcast forum and
I think it's so fun to listen tothat.
But it's, it's doing that in away that brings me the content.
That like content.
Like you just said, right, it'san article that comes out
weekly, it's a blog that comesout weekly and now I have
(28:29):
another way to access that as anadult.
Molly Ness (28:32):
And you're.
You're tapping into somethingthat I, as an adult reader, do.
When my book group chooses abook that I think is tough to
get into, I start listening toit as an audio book.
It's my entry point, andusually what I find is that by
activating my backgroundknowledge and setting the
(28:54):
context and all of those thingsthat listening does, I'm then
more likely to be able tocontinue the book as the
traditional you know, read thehard copy or read on my Kindle
or what have you.
So I think that's an importantthing that we can keep in
consideration for our kids aswell, that, as we have them
listen to a read aloud, be it usor be it the, you know the
(29:17):
podcast or even publishers noware coming out with audio files
of their textbook.
That that's a great entry wayinto difficult text.
Lori (29:29):
Yeah, I feel like that's a perfect transition to talking
about students at all gradelevels.
Like I know you mentioned inthe beginning and we've been,
you've been reiterating itthroughout like, read alouds are
not just rocking chair K2, youknow kindergarten experiences
and I know that was some of myfavorite time as a fifth grade
teacher.
Melissa, I'm so glad that youhad that conversation with the
(29:51):
fifth grade teacher recently.
Like I have such fond memoriesof reading to my students.
I, even when I taught highschool, I read aloud to my
students and I they were alwayssurprised, you know, and I just
thought, oh, this is like agreat time to calm yourself down
and and listen.
But I'm wondering about thebenefits of reading you know,
allowed to students at all gradelevels, and is there different
(30:12):
purposes at different ages?
Molly Ness (30:15):
Well, the purpose, I think, for all of readers and
is that language comprehension,that we are giving them exposure
to background knowledge, thatwe are activating their purposes
for reading and theirmotivation, not to mention all
of the socio-emotional benefitsthat come from listening to a
read aloud.
When we read aloud to a largersecondary class, we are opening
(30:41):
the door for juicy conversationsby sharing a common text.
So I think there's so muchbenefit around that.
But we also know that kidscomprehension it lags behind
their listening comprehensionuntil about seventh or eighth
grade, meaning that we, as weread aloud to kids, we are able
(31:04):
to give them access andopportunity to more difficult
texts and they would be able toencounter on their own.
And that is so important,especially for our kids who may
be struggling readers to gain,to sort of equalize the playing
field in terms of theirbackground knowledge and the
content that they need access toto become proficient readers.
(31:25):
So we really have to be mindfulthat it isn't until late middle
school that our comprehensionand our listening comprehension
sort of start to match.
Melissa (31:36):
That's really helpful.
Molly, I have a question in mymind and I don't have it fully
formed yet, so we'll see whereit goes.
But what I was just thinkingwhen you were talking is that
you know, when I was a teacher,I felt sometimes like I used
read alouds really well andother times when I didn't
necessarily and I think thetimes I did match up with the
things you're talking aboutwhich is like this is going to
(31:56):
be a really tough text for mystudents, or section of a text
for my students.
So we're going to, you know,I'm going to read it out loud to
them and work through ittogether, or I just want to like
show them my thinking in someway that I don't think that
they'll be able to do.
But other times, I will say, Ifelt like I was just like we
need to move through this fast.
So I'm going to read it outloud and I'm wondering if you
(32:19):
have any like cautions againstthat, like just reading out loud
just to kind of rush through atext, versus like all this
really rich discussion and thetalk of read alouds that you're
talking about today.
Molly Ness (32:33):
Yeah, well, I think we also.
We have to be mindful that thereis that, that what you talked
about is actually a strategy, apurposeful strategy that
effective, proficient readersuse.
They adjust their speed for areading, either silently or
(32:54):
orally, according to theirpurpose, their engagement, all
of those things.
I'm a reader that when Iencounter, you know, paragraphs
of really descriptive languageof a setting, I'm like flip,
flip, flip, get me to the action.
And that's actually usingstrategy and purposeful.
And if you think about, youknow the Scarborough's Rope,
(33:15):
those two strands comingtogether are with intention and
strategy and purpose.
So I think it's okay to speedthrough parts of a read aloud
that may not be as engaging, orto choose parts of a read aloud
that are more difficult.
Or, and I think it's alsoreally important to say to our
(33:35):
kids I'm going to read thisparagraph has a lot of juicy
language, so I'm going to readit out loud to you, the next
page you guys are going to readon your own, so that you're sort
of alerting kids of theexplicitness of what you're
doing as you read aloud and asyou model whatever you're going
to do in that particular moment.
Melissa (33:57):
Yeah, what I'm hearing you say is like it really
matters as a teacher to planthat out.
Your number one, what was the Efor that one?
Evaluate.
Evaluate the text for thosedifferent purposes, like when
does it make sense for you to?
You know, you might not alwayshave all those questions to ask
and think alouds to do andvocabulary.
It might sometimes be justreading more quickly and you, if
(34:20):
you evaluate the text, you canplan that out and at times it
might.
This is the time when it makessense for the students to be
reading and it sounds likeyou're saying, molly too, that I
would say even more as in theolder grades it might go back
and forth, like it doesn't haveto necessarily be a set.
I'm reading aloud for 20minutes.
That's all that's happening inthis time.
Lori (34:43):
Like a gradual release Right, like it's not going to
look like that, so like neat andclean.
Molly Ness (34:49):
Absolutely, and one of the things?
I spent nearly two decades as auniversity professor working in
pre-service teacher preparationand I went into one of my
pre-service teachers classroomsto do a observation and her read
aloud was pulling up a video ofsomebody else doing a read
(35:12):
aloud.
They you know there's so manyout there, they're on YouTube
and you know the storylineonlinenet, and they were so
prevalent during the pandemic asall sorts of publishers and
authors were allowing people todo videos and those hold a
certain purpose, but what theymiss is they miss the
(35:34):
opportunity for theinteractiveness of a read aloud.
They miss the opportunity for ateacher to literally read the
room of how her students areresponding and either looking
confused or looking really bored, and they just don't allow us
the flexibility that we would tobe to be responsive to our kids
(35:55):
in that classroom moment.
Melissa (35:57):
And that kind of connects to what you're saying.
Like coming back to theaudiobooks, right, Like there
might be a certain purpose forusing audiobooks that have a
great benefit, but you also wantto do this interactive part of
a read aloud, which you couldn'tdo with an audiobook.
Molly Ness (36:11):
For sure, and we adjust our instruction day by
day and even minute by minute.
So I certainly think, as longas we're able to rationalize our
decisions, I am going to readthis paragraph out loud because
of this, or I'm going to havekids partner read here, or I'm
going to have them read silentlyhere, whatever, as long as
(36:34):
you're able to justify it.
But again, we really need tomake sure that those read alouds
continue, particularly in theareas that we know they're
declining, which is upperelementary school, which is
secondary school, which is thosecontent area classrooms.
Lori (36:51):
So, Molly, what would you say?
We read aloud in content areaclassrooms.
Like can you give?
I know you shared earlier, butlike can you give a practical
example to a teacher listening,Sure, so?
Molly Ness (37:03):
let's choose.
Well, I think I talked througha music one, yeah.
So if I were an art teacherthere are so many biographies of
particular artists there are.
You know, there's a fabulouspicture book about the inventor
of Crayola crayons that I couldread to my kindergartners.
(37:25):
Every kindergartner usescrayons in some capacity.
If I were a gym teacher and Iwere introducing whatever new
sport, I could go to the.
Let's just say, for example, Iam teaching volleyball.
Well, there's a NationalVolleyball Federation.
I could go to their website andpull up the rules of volleyball
(37:46):
and, rather than me explainingthem, I could literally read the
kids the rules and then thinkaloud, because chances are,
those rules that are written inthe very formal language are not
going to be immediatelyaccessible to my kids.
If I were in a science classroomI mean science there's just so
many ways that it's hard for meto just choose one I actually,
(38:12):
in the book I talk through,using picture books as an entry
point into really difficultscientific concepts.
The math example I use isfractals, and the science
example I use is a book aboutnanospectography, which is like
the really complex chemistryexplanations.
(38:35):
I was a terrible high schoolstudent, but I know if my
teacher had pulled out a picturebook that's an explanation of
you know, in a social studiesclass.
Here's the picture book versionof you know, the history of the
Middle East peace crisis.
Or here's a picture book thatexplains you know, evaporation
(38:56):
or what have you.
It would give me an entry pointwhich builds the background
knowledge for whatever text thatI am then going to use on a in
a deeper read.
Melissa (39:08):
And I'll just say Molly, because I have a four
year old and that's why I'mreading books all the time to
him and I learned so much,especially science, to be honest
with you.
I mean the planets, the sun andthe moon, the volcanoes, like
you name it, like all thesekinds of things that they're.
They're very easy to understand, but you get a lot of
(39:28):
information from them.
Molly Ness (39:30):
There are and talk about like making things
accessible.
The other thing that we knowabout the data around read
alouds is that the vast majorityof read alouds are older books.
They are the books that weloved, and I did this myself.
I remember reading the bookHatchet to my kids.
(39:51):
My sixth grade kids who livedin the middle of downtown
Oakland had no outdoorsyexperience.
This was before you know the TVshows about survivor and things
like that.
It was a total flop, and I thinkwe also have to have the
courage to abandon a read aloud.
That isn't going well.
But I think we also have topush ourselves to read aloud
(40:16):
from things that are morecurrent and not just always go
to that.
Oh, I read this book every year, mike.
I love it.
So therefore, my kids love it.
Because there are so many, it'shard to stay on top and with
the current publications, ofjust how much comes out on a
daily basis and the richness ofthe diversity of not only the
(40:36):
content but who's writing it andthe perspective and all those
things, and so at the end of thebook I provide some lists of.
Here are some of my favoriteawards, resources, ways to stay
current, because what we know isthat most teachers sort of
revert to the read alouds thatthey always do, or they're just
(40:57):
a small minority.
Of read alouds today are booksthat are published within the
last five years.
Lori (41:03):
Yeah, I those examples are so helpful.
I can't wait to check out thelist in your book.
But I do want to say to likethank you for expanding my view
on that.
Like the gym example that yougave, for example, reading the
volleyball directions, that's, Ithink, a really cool example.
That really helped me kind oflike conceptualize it and put it
(41:24):
in for different content areas,because a lot of times it seems
like, all right, I can get thisfor ELA, I got this for for
science, for social studies orhistory, but like, what would I
do in gym, what would I do inart or music?
So thank you for those extendedexamples and that's such a good
example.
Like the directions might havethat language that is a little
(41:46):
bit more formal, and then that'sa great opportunity for that
think aloud and making thatthinking visible.
So thank you for that and itdoes, I think, provide all of
the like the Velcro for theknowledge that's about to happen
, coming forward.
Molly Ness (42:00):
So, yeah, and it's an exciting, as in the last
couple of years, all of thiscoverage around the science of
reading has emerged.
We're now, I think, starting tosee more conversations about
the importance of languagecomprehension and background
knowledge, thanks to you know,podcasts like yours and the work
of people like Natalie Wexler,and so all of these, as we think
(42:23):
about the purpose of a readaloud, be it a kindergarten
classroom or an eighth gradeclassroom, it is all about that
language comprehension, that topart, those unconstrained parts
of Scarborough's rope, and sowhen we think about how to read
aloud fit into the science ofreading, well, you can't talk
about the science of readingwithout language comprehension.
(42:45):
And how do you build that andactivate that and scaffold it
and support it for kids throughread?
Melissa (42:49):
alouds.
Yeah, because we know that.
We hear some people who say,you know, wait until they get
the, get the decoding down andthen they'll learn, then they
can read on their own to learnall of the language
comprehension parts.
But we know, we all know, wecan't wait until then.
Molly Ness (43:10):
Absolutely not, and we have.
Yeah, we also have to remindour older kids just as we can't
wait with the younger kids, wealso have to show our older kids
, if they are in their, you know, sixth grade social studies
class or their eighth grademusic class, that reading
matters to us, it matters to ourclassroom culture and it's how
(43:30):
we build our knowledge, and aread aloud is a great way to
model that.
Melissa (43:35):
Yeah, and I love what you said.
I'll just like put a stamp onthat, too, is that it also is an
opportunity to read text thatwould be really difficult for
the students to read.
Right, Then you have theopportunity to be able to help
them through a text that,instead of letting them struggle
through it, you can help themthrough it.
Well, Molly, is there anythingelse about read alouds that you
want to touch on before we wrapup?
Molly Ness (43:58):
Well, I do just want to point out that I
specifically focused on Kthrough eight.
But I don't want the message tobe that high school teachers
and college teachers and youknow people of working with
learners of all ages there is nounintended message here that
(44:19):
read aloud should stop at gradeeight.
So I, you know I so lovehearing about high school
teachers who it's a part oftheir classroom, but my specific
focus was on grade throughgrade eight.
But that does not in any waysay that you know we stop
reading aloud when kids move onto high school or what have you.
Melissa (44:38):
And before kindergarten too.
Right, Absolutely.
Lori (44:42):
Yes, love that.
Thank you for that.
So do you want to share thetitle of your book and tell us a
little bit about it?
Molly Ness (44:49):
Sure.
So it's a solution treepublication and I believe it's
actually one of solution treesfirst forays into literacy.
They have a whole lot ofprofessional development
material for other content areasbut not as much in literacy and
it's called Read Aloud for AllLearners and I was thrilled to
have Natalie Wexler, who I knowhas been a frequent visitor on
(45:12):
your podcast, write the fourword and I will also offer that
there's a huge amount ofresearch in it and if you are a
teacher or a learner or whateveryour role is, that actually
wants the direct research like,if you want to dig into the PDF
of the research and can't get toit because it's behind a
(45:33):
paywall, I will happily share itwith you.
So don't let that stop yourlearning just because it's you
know in an academic journal thatyou don't have access to.
Lori (45:43):
Thank you, Molly.
And so it's Read Alouds for AllLearners, and Molly Ness is our
guest today.
We'll have this linked in theshow notes and, molly, we will
make sure we have a way forlisteners to get in contact with
you if they'd like the researchthrough our show notes as well.
Molly Ness (46:02):
I would love to follow up with anybody who's
who's interested in more, andalso to hear your ideas.
I mean, teachers could not bethe more.
They are the most innovative,creative people and to hear how
people are reading aloud in waysthat I couldn't even think of,
because I know they're out thereand happening on a daily basis
(46:22):
in classrooms all over.
Lori (46:24):
Yeah, we've had teachers actually send us videos before
like on Facebook and stuff fromthe things that we've talked
about on the podcast and they'relike I do it this way in my
classroom.
That's so fun, I love that.
Molly Ness (46:34):
I hope I get some of those.
Lori (46:35):
I would love that, see, maybe we can get some Read Aloud
videos.
Yeah, we can send them.
We can send them along to you,molly, perfect Well, thank you.
This was so helpful andinformative and, like most
importantly, super practical.
I just I'm so grateful that youcame on the podcast to share
this and that you wrote a book.
(46:55):
Thank you for doing that.
Molly Ness (46:57):
Well, it's every time I do a book I say I'm never
doing one another one again,and then so we'll see.
This might be my last, but whoknows.
So I look forward to feedbackand in ongoing conversations
from whoever has dug into it.
Melissa (47:14):
Sounds great.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Lori (47:20):
Thanks for listening.
Literacy Lovers, To stayconnected with us, sign up for
our email list atliteracypodcastcom.
Melissa (47:29):
And to keep learning together.
Join the Melissa and Lori LoveLiteracy Podcast Facebook group
and be sure to follow us onInstagram and Twitter.
Lori (47:38):
If this episode resonated with you, take a moment to share
with a teacher friend or leaveus a five star rating and review
on Apple podcasts.
Melissa (47:48):
Just a quick reminder that the views and opinions
expressed by the hosts andguests of the Melissa and Lori
Love Literacy Podcast are notnecessarily the opinions of
Great Minds PBC or its employees.
Lori (48:01):
We appreciate you so much and we're so glad you're here to
learn with us.
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