March 31, 2023 • 25 mins
Join us for an enlightening episode of the MenswearStyle Podcast as we sit down with José Maria Reffoios, Co-Founder of JAK, the renowned minimalist and timeless sneaker brand. Since its establishment in 2014 by Isabel and José Maria in Lisbon, JAK has been driven by a compelling vision. They strive to create modern designs using high-quality materials that age gracefully, enhancing their appeal over time. With a focus on urban lifestyle and everyday use, JAK crafts sneakers and accessories that seamlessly blend style and function.
Discover the essence of JAK's production process, situated in the revered northern region of Portugal, renowned for its multi-generational family-owned factories. Embracing a strong ethical code, JAK sources materials locally and responsibly, ensuring reduced environmental impact and fair treatment for their collaborators. By hand-picking suppliers and regularly visiting their facilities, JAK upholds their commitment to sustainability and ethical practices.
José Maria takes us on a captivating journey, sharing insights into his background and the genesis of JAK as a direct-to-consumer unisex sneaker brand. Engage in a thought-provoking conversation between Peter Brooker and José as they delve into various aspects, including working with family-owned factories, the role of brick and mortar stores, the significance of sustainability, the allure of minimalistic design, the meticulous materials research process, leveraging social media, and exciting future plans.
Don't miss this episode where we explore the world of JAK, a brand that transcends fashion, seeking to create an authentic lifestyle experience. Learn from their expertise in blending flexibility and durability using full grain leather, the highest quality and most coveted part of the hide. Discover how JAK's dedication to simplicity and craftsmanship elevates their Made in Portugal shoes to the status of timeless treasures that age beautifully, much like the individuals who wear them.
Graphite ProGRAPHITE is a platform for creatives and trailblazers aiming to elevate their work....
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:13):
Hello and welcome back to another episode of the
menswear style podcast. I'm yourhost Pete Brooker and today on
this show I am talking to cofounder of Jack shoes. Jose
Maria and Jack was founded in2014, in Lisbon, Portugal by
Isabel and Jose Maria, part ofJack's vision is to create
products with modern design thatare made of high quality
(00:33):
materials and aged beautifullyover time. They create sneakers
and accessories for an urbanlifestyle and everyday use. And
you can find all the informationover at Jack shoes.com. That's j
A k shoes.com. And here to tellus about his story. And his
journey is co founder, JoseMaria. Jose, you're over in
(00:53):
Portugal, where you're makingthese shoes. We have so many
brands that we are founders ofbrands that we speak to here in
the UK that have their clothesand their shoes made in
Portugal, but you're actuallyout there at the moment making
them right. Yeah, we actuallydon't have our own factory. So
we also source factories andsyndicate the production. But
yeah, Portuguese, textile,apparel and shoe industry is
(01:19):
growing. And also it has beengrowing in quality. So we've
we've seen a lot of brands, andI've obviously come across a lot
of them producing in Portugal.
And that makes us that makes usreally proud. Now normally, I
kick off the shows and just askyou to introduce the brand and
yourself. But I'm gonna jumpahead here, how often do you get
down to the factories? Quite alot, actually. I mean, it's I
(01:42):
think that's one of thecompetitive advantages of having
a brand and being Portuguese.
Yeah, we are designing them inLisbon. And then it's maybe a
two and a half hour driveto the factories, three hours
for some more distance ones. ButI tend to go there at least once
once a month, either me orsomeone from from the production
(02:03):
or a team or Isabel. But yeah,we keep we keep in close touch
and very close proximity. Andalso speaking the same language
is it's just at the distance ofa phone call. And you can get
things resolved very easily. Wedon't have to go through the
scheduling. So you know,sometimes even on short notice,
I can just jump in the car anddrive two and a half hours.
(02:26):
Yeah, I bet it must be such anadvantage to have a great
shorthand with your suppliers.
What are you doing when you'redown there you kind of asking
for tweaks in the design? Or areyou just overseeing the quality
or everything.
A bit of everything, I'd say alot of it has to do with
sampling new models.
(02:48):
The way the way the design isimplemented, the way the
modelling is done. And a lot ofthe fitting is done with the
factory looking at where thingsare better or worse. But also
when we source new materials,there's a lot of components
involved in making shoes.
(03:09):
And so sometimes it's justbetter to do it face to face.
And, but we do a little bit ofeverything I like I like to go
on the production line a lot.
And checking things. It's alsothe factory that we work with
the most it's basically a familybusiness. So Mum and Dad are
mostly in the production line.
That's what they like to do. Andthe son, which is
(03:34):
the one leading the projectright now, as long as it's more
at the office. So it'sinteresting to see also the
balance there. And we are alwaysvery well received there. I
think there's also this inherentproudness factor from them, I
think it's really cool to seethat they like producing a
(03:56):
Portuguese brand, as opposed to90% of their production that is
basically exported, right. Yeah,no, I bet I know. And also, I
must be quite proud for you aswell seeing the sneaker come off
the production line there. Butit's a nice moment going in the
boxes. Absolutely. That's likethe most exciting parts sort of
seeing like an initial designthen materialising into an
(04:17):
actual product and like lookingat all the steps like the suing
and then lasting them and likestitching the soles and cleaning
them and putting them in the boxand like fine tuning all the
details. It's super exciting.
That's the best part that andwhen you get new samples in the
office, it's also like it waslike crystal it comes in the box
(04:38):
to start with right.
So gift idea is already therethat you're gonna unwrap your
own present that you made. Yeah,I can't get tired of the
unboxing experience, even ifI've done it 1000 times. Well,
Jose, I've jumped way ahead butplease, perhaps touch upon how
you started the brand and yourskills and expertise going into
(05:00):
The brand. Definitely. So Jackis basically, I mean looking at
it, you'd say, but it's aminimalistic unisex sneaker
brand it started. As such.
It's a direct to consumerbusiness as well. We started
this project in 2014, weactually had a different brand
(05:20):
before. And that's how I cameinto the business. So my partner
Isabel, fresh out of college,she did a master's in fashion
design. And later, she wasalready focusing a lot on shoes.
And she had this huge passionand urgency to jump into the
shoe business. So she startedmaking classical women's shoes,
(05:41):
I jumped into it, I saw a lot ofpotential in the in the
business, I come from acompletely different background,
actually in engineering,telecom. And it, though I didn't
I never graduated from fromcollege, I spent a good 10 years
jumping from course, to course.
And I also I've been anentrepreneur since 2004. So I
was very excited to see this,like this project coming through
(06:04):
my my entire background, or mostof it was a lot dedicated to
services. It's incrediblyfrustrating not to have a
product to focus and fine tuneand like do it like well once
and sell it a million times. Andso I was very drawn to the
business, I suggested that I doa small investment in this
(06:25):
classical shoe brand. And that'show the relationship started
just in the first year of the ofthe brand, actually. Then fast
forward two years with designIsabel designs, a sneaker, the
base of Jack and we we sat on itbecause it didn't fit the brand
that we had. And after a coupleof months of thinking and
debating, we said why don't wejust make a sneaker brands and
(06:47):
we cut all the things that don'twork with this classical shoe
business, which is like seasonto season, wholesale going on
trade shows we didn't like thatit was very frustrating to grow
a brand like such, we didn'thave any brand awareness and it
was just very frustrating. Sohaving this IT background also
helps with putting up a websiteand connecting all the dots and
(07:10):
starting to promote the brandonline. So I did that pretty
easily in the beginning 2014.
And then for the next two years,we sort of, we sort of fiddled
with the design and withimproving the samples that were
coming through, we started witha single style in like four or
five colours and we put it westarted selling it in.
(07:34):
In the store, we had a verysmall store downtown Lisbon in a
shared space, maybe just eightsquare metres. But when we put
jack up there, people startedasking for more colours for more
designs for like new products.
And it was an immediate successat scale. Obviously, it was a
very small store. And that sortof motivated us to focus more
(07:54):
and more in the brand. Andeventually, in 2000 in 19, we
decided that we would stop doingthe other brand and we would
just focus exclusively on JackInteresting. Yeah, I mean, you
touched upon trade shows there Ican imagine I've been to a fair
few of them. That model works ifyou're looking to get into
(08:15):
resellers and you know sellwholesale but you're going
direct to consumer or you arenow so like that kind of going
around and shopping it around intrade shows paying for hotels
paying for stalls paying forbasically putting a lot of
capital in getting awareness outthat way simply doesn't work.
Now it's kind of just a well youhave a couple of stores but it's
(08:37):
I guess most of your yourdriving your traffic is
ecommerce, right? Yes. And alsoI think ecommerce and especially
since Shopify came around, it'sbeen very democratised.
I think the internet itself,it's a shortcut towards building
any products. Anywhere in theworld, you can just research
(09:00):
there's a lot of online courses,you can, you can learn a lot of
about any business and someonewho's resourceful enough to
search and take the time tolearn. They can do it. So you
know, we've beenwitnessing a lot of brands
emerging in a lot of categories,apparel, and shoes in sneakers,
being some of them. And so Ithink that also, the market sort
(09:23):
of gets a little bit moreflooded with new exciting stuff
going on. And then you have allthe Kickstarters in there's a
lot of noise around aroundexciting new products. And so I
think the trade shows have, Imean, I'm not saying they're not
relevant, but they're missing apart where people buy a shoe in
(09:45):
this case, and they're actuallytalking to the brand owners,
they're talking directly to thebrand and you know, the
experience is a lot more cateredto what they're actually looking
forSo yeah, I think there's space
for everything. But But I wouldsay direct to consumer is much
more rewarding, in a wayfor both sides for the ones
(10:11):
selling them, and for the onesbuying them. The kicksta. You
mentioned, were you tempted togo down that route as well? Or,
or? No, yeah, we've consideredit. And we did a lot of research
around it. And we thought maybeif we jump, if one day, we jump
into different categories,seriously, we might consider it.
(10:32):
It's not within our scope at themoment, we prefer to start
something small. And we preferalso, one of the things about
our brands, and I think there'sa lot of you had the
greenwashing and now you havethe sustainability washing,
these are like sort of keywordsthat are very present and
(10:53):
forthcoming in the market. Andwe believe that we are at a
sustainable brand, but beforethat, we want to be a
sustainable company. So wereally don't want to create like
oversize our company, and andgive these like, huge leaps that
sometimes Kickstarters whenthey're successful, give in I
think we'd much rather startslike a product lines smaller
(11:17):
with with a smaller production.
And then if it is successful,then we'll we'll produce more.
But I mean, we haven't decidedit's something we could we could
think I mean, it's a huge list.
It's a hugely successful toolfor a lot of brands and
products. So I'm not saying no,it's just, it hasn't been in our
(11:40):
scope. Yeah. Going back to thesneakers, and the design is very
minimalist, like you say, so isthat that must be purposeful,
right? You're not looking to puttoo much embellishment on there.
Is it? Because it's easier tomanufacture these without too
many logos and too manyaccoutrements?
(12:01):
No, I think,I think it's harder. Actually,
if you look at our brandsignatures, we've also thought a
lot about that we came up withdefy simple, which is, I mean,
you looking at a very dresseddown shoe, there's like not a
lot of panelling in general.
Some models actually, we'vestarted doing bits and parts in
(12:22):
mixing up but like, I would say,50% of our sales come from the
most minimalistic models that wehave, and but also when you cut
into them, and when you look atthe complexity behind them, and
the sort of materials that wehave to source to be able to
produce such large pedallingwith no interruptions. No, no
(12:45):
stitching in between. It'sincredibly difficult. So in in
this apparent simplicity,there's there's a lot going on
in terms of construction,there's the way that we see a
shoe, or at least issues thatwe're building right now. They
should be well built, theyshould be like we should use
(13:07):
only prime luxury materials inthem. And also the layers that
we only use, like 90% of thecases except for the new vegan
versions, we only use fullleather midsoles. We use Shanks
inside them. We also use a layerof cork, before we glue and
(13:30):
stitch the soles. We have dualdensity in removable inner
soles, we also lined those withcalf leather. So you know,
there's a lot of a lot ofdifferent components into it and
how much research has to go intomaking say one design, like even
the vegan one that you mentionedthere. I mean, there must be
(13:51):
quite a lot of behind the sceneswork that goes on not just with
the design, but knowing how thefabrics are going to work in a
trainer.
being completely honest, thebuilding part we've done we
already know the way we want tobuild them. So Construction wise
we are I mean we've been doingit now for eight years. And
(14:14):
we've we've tried differenttechniques. We're mostly relying
on some into construction. We'renot excluding to use other types
of construction in the future.
But there's a lot of researchwith materials especially when
you jump into the vegan stuffbecause most of vegan stuff
products that you see out thereare based plastics, and that's
that's also something you haveto have in mind when you're
(14:37):
talking about going green andgoing sustainable. There's a lot
of carbon footprint in some ofthese materials. We're using our
nuphar with based off Applepeels. We launched that last
year.
It has about a cotton backing,but it
(15:00):
It will always need a bindingagent. And that is typically
based off plastics. There's afew projects going going on.
There have been some prototypeson the market
100%, free of plastics, we arepursuing some of that
technology, some of thosesuppliers and projects, but we
(15:22):
are very careful about jumpinginto a new material. So I would
say the research is in the timethat we spent testing and asking
fortechnical data is white allies
nuts, that's nuts to anyone thatjust thinks about what they eat
can actually be in a shoe. Imean, I, I think I heard
(15:45):
something about pineapple skinsuits, once I'm pretty sure
that's the thing, I can't evenimagine it working. So maybe you
can just keep me a dummy's guideon how we can get Apple pulp
into a trainer.
Store. This is mostly Applewaste. And then in sort of
simple terms, and I'm not alsothe best person to explain this.
(16:09):
It's not like within my scope.
But But you basically just grindit all into a paste, and then
you mix it up with eventually asecret formula, this is the
competitive advantage of thissupplier as well. And then it
actually goes through a cureprocess and a binding agent,
again, typically polyurethane orsomething like this, you can
(16:30):
have a percentage of thispolyurethane being also of a
biological origin,instead of a chemical one.
And then you sort of glue it in,and stitch it all together to a
backing.
And, and in between this processyou also diet with with with the
(16:52):
colour that that you want. Andthat's also challenging to find
the right colour becausechemicals react differently in
when you're using bio basedmaterials into the process,
different different batch ofApple peels will give a
different reaction with with thedying. So that's also one of the
(17:13):
problems that we have. Andsometimes people on a purely
commercial point of view, if youcome into a store, and you look
at a product, and you've seen apicture online, and it looks
pure triple A white, and thenyou look at it, and it has this
sort of greyish greenish tonethat can happen. And this is
purely the formula is the exactsame one. But this can happen
(17:36):
based off the the origin of theproduct. So I think that's an
interesting debate to have aswell. A lot of people sometimes
don't understand when you'reworking with natural materials,
leathers or other non leatherbased materials, different, you
can have different versions ofdifferent of the same product.
(17:58):
In my in my reasoning, I thinkthat's quite interesting. It's
an experience. But some peopledon't, don't quite most don't
agree. So I think it's also anopportunity to educate people
into what, like an actualnatural based brand. Yeah, I
mean, I think it's a fascinatingsubject, it's basically you're
(18:19):
not going to get two trainersthat look the same, because
you'll have always slightdifferent inflections based on
on what's going in and right. Soagain, it's going to give it
that very cool twist, that it'snot mass produced. It's
something that's a little bit oflove's gone into it, and
something very unique hashappened to it. So I do like
that. Jose, I'm curious aboutyour social media, as always,
(18:40):
because I think we're brandswhen you say that you're kind of
direct to consumer, you'realways going to be the face
behind it. Are you behind thescenes with all of your
Instagrams and all that sort ofstuff as well?
That's,it's, it's not easy. I mean,
there's a lot of pressuretowards building new exciting
content, I'm going to be honest,that's one of our that's where
(19:01):
we are slacking. And on someoccasions, I think we've been
lucky enough that we have a lotof repeat customers, and a lot
of people that stand by thebrand and what we build as a
product. And that has helped usgrow year over year even during
COVID. Even with stores closewe've been able to grow the
brand. But But But social mediais definitely a challenge. We
(19:25):
share that responsibility.
Mostly it lays on Isabel's lap.
We have been working also with acreative agency, we are lucky
enough to have an in housephotographer. Basically what we
do is we share the space withhim. So he's readily available
when we need something.
(19:47):
And, and we're also working witha PR agency and we recently made
a few marketing hires to helpwith that, but it's an
incredibly difficult process toget the right message
All across when I mean, socialmedia looks very simple, you
just have to do a little bit ofcontent. But then there's this
(20:08):
balance between portraying theunique features of the shoe, or
of the leather, and it has tolook perfect because there's too
much texture. And there'sproportion. There's all of this,
all of these factors. So it'ssort of a an inner battle. Even
for us, like, should we postthis picture? Like, it doesn't
look as good. But the, andsometimes we have to like, step
(20:30):
back and say, No, this is thisis good enough. It portrays what
we are as a brand. And okay,this is not the perfect
impression of what the shoeactually looks like. But I mean,
for me, it's incrediblychallenging. Coming from the
background that I come in beinga perfectionist, I like to see
things neat and perfect. Andsometimes you have to go
(20:51):
against. Yeah, that's it. Ithink a lot of people have that
with social media that it hasto, it has to look, especially
with your page, because all ofthe imagery, like you say, looks
very well polished. It's veryinformational, as well,
sometimes with the infographicsthat you've laid out, you can't
just then go from that. And justtake a wham bam picture of your
(21:13):
trainers, like from a point ofview position, right? Because it
goes kind of goes against thebrand, almost, you know, you
need to have consistency, it canbe that one or the professional,
but it can't be both in a weirdworld. So yeah, maybe you can I
don't know. I mean, we'relearning as we go. I mean, we're
not, we're not the best exampleat anything, we are just trying
(21:33):
to do our own thing. We werewinging it in a way we were not
the I mean, none of us was aprofessional Shoemaker, shoe
designer, or shoe developer tobegin with. We so in the in the
in the same way, we were notprofessional product marketeers,
we are learning as we go, wegather the feedback from
(21:55):
friends, family, and customers.
And in the team we have, we'revery fortunate to have this
amazing team at Jack, soeveryone contributes a little
bit amazing. Well, the place tohang out on Instagram is at Jack
underscore shoes. And I shouldsay Jack is J. K. But we'll put
all the links over in the shownotes and Jack shoes.com. Also
(22:16):
to go and check out the sneakersthere and grab yourself a pair.
Jose, you got a couple ofstores, I think is it Porto and
Lisbon in Portugal? Have you gotany plans to come to the UK? We
do. Actually the UK is ourlargest markets 25% of our sales
come from the UK. The other theother 25 other another 25 come
(22:38):
from the US then it's Germany,France and only then Portugal
with 5%. I mean, you I think wehave a very fair price point for
what we build and what thesneakers cost to produce. But
unfortunately, the thePortuguese economic situation is
not.
It's not as good as as we wouldlike. And also this is I think
(23:01):
the problem when you have amanufacturing country. There's a
lot of good quality productsgoing straight from frack
factory to stores. And sometimespeople can find good quality
products without without withoutthe brand markup on it. We have
to have the brand market on it.
That's that's how we payourselves in this is supposed to
be a profitable business. ButBut yeah, we definitely want to
(23:24):
open a store in the UK that'swithin that that's in our our
timeline. We don't haveunlimited cash at hand. Maybe we
can we can.
We can do that in the nextcouple of years. We'll we're
working on it. Okay, well keepus posted. And I guess all the
(23:44):
news will break over on thewebsite. So again, people can
check that out. Jack shoes.comthe place to go. Jose, thank you
so much for jumping on. It wasreally interesting talking to
you and best of luck with thefuture.
Thank you, Peter. Thank you somuch for having me
(24:07):
you've been listening to themenswear style podcast be sure
to head over to menswear styledot code at uk for more menswear
content and email info atmenswear startup code at UK if
you'd like to be a future gueston the show. Finally, please
help support the show by leavinga review on iTunes or wherever
you're listening to thispodcast. Until next time
Hello and welcome back to another episode of the
menswear style podcast. I'm yourhost Pete Brooker and today on
this show I am talking to cofounder of Jack shoes. Jose
Maria and Jack was founded in2014, in Lisbon, Portugal by
Isabel and Jose Maria, part ofJack's vision is to create
products with modern design thatare made of high quality
(00:33):
materials and aged beautifullyover time. They create sneakers
and accessories for an urbanlifestyle and everyday use. And
you can find all the informationover at Jack shoes.com. That's j
A k shoes.com. And here to tellus about his story. And his
journey is co founder, JoseMaria. Jose, you're over in
(00:53):
Portugal, where you're makingthese shoes. We have so many
brands that we are founders ofbrands that we speak to here in
the UK that have their clothesand their shoes made in
Portugal, but you're actuallyout there at the moment making
them right. Yeah, we actuallydon't have our own factory. So
we also source factories andsyndicate the production. But
yeah, Portuguese, textile,apparel and shoe industry is
(01:19):
growing. And also it has beengrowing in quality. So we've
we've seen a lot of brands, andI've obviously come across a lot
of them producing in Portugal.
And that makes us that makes usreally proud. Now normally, I
kick off the shows and just askyou to introduce the brand and
yourself. But I'm gonna jumpahead here, how often do you get
down to the factories? Quite alot, actually. I mean, it's I
(01:42):
think that's one of thecompetitive advantages of having
a brand and being Portuguese.
Yeah, we are designing them inLisbon. And then it's maybe a
two and a half hour driveto the factories, three hours
for some more distance ones. ButI tend to go there at least once
once a month, either me orsomeone from from the production
(02:03):
or a team or Isabel. But yeah,we keep we keep in close touch
and very close proximity. Andalso speaking the same language
is it's just at the distance ofa phone call. And you can get
things resolved very easily. Wedon't have to go through the
scheduling. So you know,sometimes even on short notice,
I can just jump in the car anddrive two and a half hours.
(02:26):
Yeah, I bet it must be such anadvantage to have a great
shorthand with your suppliers.
What are you doing when you'redown there you kind of asking
for tweaks in the design? Or areyou just overseeing the quality
or everything.
A bit of everything, I'd say alot of it has to do with
sampling new models.
(02:48):
The way the way the design isimplemented, the way the
modelling is done. And a lot ofthe fitting is done with the
factory looking at where thingsare better or worse. But also
when we source new materials,there's a lot of components
involved in making shoes.
(03:09):
And so sometimes it's justbetter to do it face to face.
And, but we do a little bit ofeverything I like I like to go
on the production line a lot.
And checking things. It's alsothe factory that we work with
the most it's basically a familybusiness. So Mum and Dad are
mostly in the production line.
That's what they like to do. Andthe son, which is
(03:34):
the one leading the projectright now, as long as it's more
at the office. So it'sinteresting to see also the
balance there. And we are alwaysvery well received there. I
think there's also this inherentproudness factor from them, I
think it's really cool to seethat they like producing a
(03:56):
Portuguese brand, as opposed to90% of their production that is
basically exported, right. Yeah,no, I bet I know. And also, I
must be quite proud for you aswell seeing the sneaker come off
the production line there. Butit's a nice moment going in the
boxes. Absolutely. That's likethe most exciting parts sort of
seeing like an initial designthen materialising into an
(04:17):
actual product and like lookingat all the steps like the suing
and then lasting them and likestitching the soles and cleaning
them and putting them in the boxand like fine tuning all the
details. It's super exciting.
That's the best part that andwhen you get new samples in the
office, it's also like it waslike crystal it comes in the box
(04:38):
to start with right.
So gift idea is already therethat you're gonna unwrap your
own present that you made. Yeah,I can't get tired of the
unboxing experience, even ifI've done it 1000 times. Well,
Jose, I've jumped way ahead butplease, perhaps touch upon how
you started the brand and yourskills and expertise going into
(05:00):
The brand. Definitely. So Jackis basically, I mean looking at
it, you'd say, but it's aminimalistic unisex sneaker
brand it started. As such.
It's a direct to consumerbusiness as well. We started
this project in 2014, weactually had a different brand
(05:20):
before. And that's how I cameinto the business. So my partner
Isabel, fresh out of college,she did a master's in fashion
design. And later, she wasalready focusing a lot on shoes.
And she had this huge passionand urgency to jump into the
shoe business. So she startedmaking classical women's shoes,
(05:41):
I jumped into it, I saw a lot ofpotential in the in the
business, I come from acompletely different background,
actually in engineering,telecom. And it, though I didn't
I never graduated from fromcollege, I spent a good 10 years
jumping from course, to course.
And I also I've been anentrepreneur since 2004. So I
was very excited to see this,like this project coming through
(06:04):
my my entire background, or mostof it was a lot dedicated to
services. It's incrediblyfrustrating not to have a
product to focus and fine tuneand like do it like well once
and sell it a million times. Andso I was very drawn to the
business, I suggested that I doa small investment in this
(06:25):
classical shoe brand. And that'show the relationship started
just in the first year of the ofthe brand, actually. Then fast
forward two years with designIsabel designs, a sneaker, the
base of Jack and we we sat on itbecause it didn't fit the brand
that we had. And after a coupleof months of thinking and
debating, we said why don't wejust make a sneaker brands and
(06:47):
we cut all the things that don'twork with this classical shoe
business, which is like seasonto season, wholesale going on
trade shows we didn't like thatit was very frustrating to grow
a brand like such, we didn'thave any brand awareness and it
was just very frustrating. Sohaving this IT background also
helps with putting up a websiteand connecting all the dots and
(07:10):
starting to promote the brandonline. So I did that pretty
easily in the beginning 2014.
And then for the next two years,we sort of, we sort of fiddled
with the design and withimproving the samples that were
coming through, we started witha single style in like four or
five colours and we put it westarted selling it in.
(07:34):
In the store, we had a verysmall store downtown Lisbon in a
shared space, maybe just eightsquare metres. But when we put
jack up there, people startedasking for more colours for more
designs for like new products.
And it was an immediate successat scale. Obviously, it was a
very small store. And that sortof motivated us to focus more
(07:54):
and more in the brand. Andeventually, in 2000 in 19, we
decided that we would stop doingthe other brand and we would
just focus exclusively on JackInteresting. Yeah, I mean, you
touched upon trade shows there Ican imagine I've been to a fair
few of them. That model works ifyou're looking to get into
(08:15):
resellers and you know sellwholesale but you're going
direct to consumer or you arenow so like that kind of going
around and shopping it around intrade shows paying for hotels
paying for stalls paying forbasically putting a lot of
capital in getting awareness outthat way simply doesn't work.
Now it's kind of just a well youhave a couple of stores but it's
(08:37):
I guess most of your yourdriving your traffic is
ecommerce, right? Yes. And alsoI think ecommerce and especially
since Shopify came around, it'sbeen very democratised.
I think the internet itself,it's a shortcut towards building
any products. Anywhere in theworld, you can just research
(09:00):
there's a lot of online courses,you can, you can learn a lot of
about any business and someonewho's resourceful enough to
search and take the time tolearn. They can do it. So you
know, we've beenwitnessing a lot of brands
emerging in a lot of categories,apparel, and shoes in sneakers,
being some of them. And so Ithink that also, the market sort
(09:23):
of gets a little bit moreflooded with new exciting stuff
going on. And then you have allthe Kickstarters in there's a
lot of noise around aroundexciting new products. And so I
think the trade shows have, Imean, I'm not saying they're not
relevant, but they're missing apart where people buy a shoe in
(09:45):
this case, and they're actuallytalking to the brand owners,
they're talking directly to thebrand and you know, the
experience is a lot more cateredto what they're actually looking
forSo yeah, I think there's space
for everything. But But I wouldsay direct to consumer is much
more rewarding, in a wayfor both sides for the ones
(10:11):
selling them, and for the onesbuying them. The kicksta. You
mentioned, were you tempted togo down that route as well? Or,
or? No, yeah, we've consideredit. And we did a lot of research
around it. And we thought maybeif we jump, if one day, we jump
into different categories,seriously, we might consider it.
(10:32):
It's not within our scope at themoment, we prefer to start
something small. And we preferalso, one of the things about
our brands, and I think there'sa lot of you had the
greenwashing and now you havethe sustainability washing,
these are like sort of keywordsthat are very present and
(10:53):
forthcoming in the market. Andwe believe that we are at a
sustainable brand, but beforethat, we want to be a
sustainable company. So wereally don't want to create like
oversize our company, and andgive these like, huge leaps that
sometimes Kickstarters whenthey're successful, give in I
think we'd much rather startslike a product lines smaller
(11:17):
with with a smaller production.
And then if it is successful,then we'll we'll produce more.
But I mean, we haven't decidedit's something we could we could
think I mean, it's a huge list.
It's a hugely successful toolfor a lot of brands and
products. So I'm not saying no,it's just, it hasn't been in our
(11:40):
scope. Yeah. Going back to thesneakers, and the design is very
minimalist, like you say, so isthat that must be purposeful,
right? You're not looking to puttoo much embellishment on there.
Is it? Because it's easier tomanufacture these without too
many logos and too manyaccoutrements?
(12:01):
No, I think,I think it's harder. Actually,
if you look at our brandsignatures, we've also thought a
lot about that we came up withdefy simple, which is, I mean,
you looking at a very dresseddown shoe, there's like not a
lot of panelling in general.
Some models actually, we'vestarted doing bits and parts in
(12:22):
mixing up but like, I would say,50% of our sales come from the
most minimalistic models that wehave, and but also when you cut
into them, and when you look atthe complexity behind them, and
the sort of materials that wehave to source to be able to
produce such large pedallingwith no interruptions. No, no
(12:45):
stitching in between. It'sincredibly difficult. So in in
this apparent simplicity,there's there's a lot going on
in terms of construction,there's the way that we see a
shoe, or at least issues thatwe're building right now. They
should be well built, theyshould be like we should use
(13:07):
only prime luxury materials inthem. And also the layers that
we only use, like 90% of thecases except for the new vegan
versions, we only use fullleather midsoles. We use Shanks
inside them. We also use a layerof cork, before we glue and
(13:30):
stitch the soles. We have dualdensity in removable inner
soles, we also lined those withcalf leather. So you know,
there's a lot of a lot ofdifferent components into it and
how much research has to go intomaking say one design, like even
the vegan one that you mentionedthere. I mean, there must be
(13:51):
quite a lot of behind the sceneswork that goes on not just with
the design, but knowing how thefabrics are going to work in a
trainer.
being completely honest, thebuilding part we've done we
already know the way we want tobuild them. So Construction wise
we are I mean we've been doingit now for eight years. And
(14:14):
we've we've tried differenttechniques. We're mostly relying
on some into construction. We'renot excluding to use other types
of construction in the future.
But there's a lot of researchwith materials especially when
you jump into the vegan stuffbecause most of vegan stuff
products that you see out thereare based plastics, and that's
that's also something you haveto have in mind when you're
(14:37):
talking about going green andgoing sustainable. There's a lot
of carbon footprint in some ofthese materials. We're using our
nuphar with based off Applepeels. We launched that last
year.
It has about a cotton backing,but it
(15:00):
It will always need a bindingagent. And that is typically
based off plastics. There's afew projects going going on.
There have been some prototypeson the market
100%, free of plastics, we arepursuing some of that
technology, some of thosesuppliers and projects, but we
(15:22):
are very careful about jumpinginto a new material. So I would
say the research is in the timethat we spent testing and asking
fortechnical data is white allies
nuts, that's nuts to anyone thatjust thinks about what they eat
can actually be in a shoe. Imean, I, I think I heard
(15:45):
something about pineapple skinsuits, once I'm pretty sure
that's the thing, I can't evenimagine it working. So maybe you
can just keep me a dummy's guideon how we can get Apple pulp
into a trainer.
Store. This is mostly Applewaste. And then in sort of
simple terms, and I'm not alsothe best person to explain this.
(16:09):
It's not like within my scope.
But But you basically just grindit all into a paste, and then
you mix it up with eventually asecret formula, this is the
competitive advantage of thissupplier as well. And then it
actually goes through a cureprocess and a binding agent,
again, typically polyurethane orsomething like this, you can
(16:30):
have a percentage of thispolyurethane being also of a
biological origin,instead of a chemical one.
And then you sort of glue it in,and stitch it all together to a
backing.
And, and in between this processyou also diet with with with the
(16:52):
colour that that you want. Andthat's also challenging to find
the right colour becausechemicals react differently in
when you're using bio basedmaterials into the process,
different different batch ofApple peels will give a
different reaction with with thedying. So that's also one of the
(17:13):
problems that we have. Andsometimes people on a purely
commercial point of view, if youcome into a store, and you look
at a product, and you've seen apicture online, and it looks
pure triple A white, and thenyou look at it, and it has this
sort of greyish greenish tonethat can happen. And this is
purely the formula is the exactsame one. But this can happen
(17:36):
based off the the origin of theproduct. So I think that's an
interesting debate to have aswell. A lot of people sometimes
don't understand when you'reworking with natural materials,
leathers or other non leatherbased materials, different, you
can have different versions ofdifferent of the same product.
(17:58):
In my in my reasoning, I thinkthat's quite interesting. It's
an experience. But some peopledon't, don't quite most don't
agree. So I think it's also anopportunity to educate people
into what, like an actualnatural based brand. Yeah, I
mean, I think it's a fascinatingsubject, it's basically you're
(18:19):
not going to get two trainersthat look the same, because
you'll have always slightdifferent inflections based on
on what's going in and right. Soagain, it's going to give it
that very cool twist, that it'snot mass produced. It's
something that's a little bit oflove's gone into it, and
something very unique hashappened to it. So I do like
that. Jose, I'm curious aboutyour social media, as always,
(18:40):
because I think we're brandswhen you say that you're kind of
direct to consumer, you'realways going to be the face
behind it. Are you behind thescenes with all of your
Instagrams and all that sort ofstuff as well?
That's,it's, it's not easy. I mean,
there's a lot of pressuretowards building new exciting
content, I'm going to be honest,that's one of our that's where
(19:01):
we are slacking. And on someoccasions, I think we've been
lucky enough that we have a lotof repeat customers, and a lot
of people that stand by thebrand and what we build as a
product. And that has helped usgrow year over year even during
COVID. Even with stores closewe've been able to grow the
brand. But But But social mediais definitely a challenge. We
(19:25):
share that responsibility.
Mostly it lays on Isabel's lap.
We have been working also with acreative agency, we are lucky
enough to have an in housephotographer. Basically what we
do is we share the space withhim. So he's readily available
when we need something.
(19:47):
And, and we're also working witha PR agency and we recently made
a few marketing hires to helpwith that, but it's an
incredibly difficult process toget the right message
All across when I mean, socialmedia looks very simple, you
just have to do a little bit ofcontent. But then there's this
(20:08):
balance between portraying theunique features of the shoe, or
of the leather, and it has tolook perfect because there's too
much texture. And there'sproportion. There's all of this,
all of these factors. So it'ssort of a an inner battle. Even
for us, like, should we postthis picture? Like, it doesn't
look as good. But the, andsometimes we have to like, step
(20:30):
back and say, No, this is thisis good enough. It portrays what
we are as a brand. And okay,this is not the perfect
impression of what the shoeactually looks like. But I mean,
for me, it's incrediblychallenging. Coming from the
background that I come in beinga perfectionist, I like to see
things neat and perfect. Andsometimes you have to go
(20:51):
against. Yeah, that's it. Ithink a lot of people have that
with social media that it hasto, it has to look, especially
with your page, because all ofthe imagery, like you say, looks
very well polished. It's veryinformational, as well,
sometimes with the infographicsthat you've laid out, you can't
just then go from that. And justtake a wham bam picture of your
(21:13):
trainers, like from a point ofview position, right? Because it
goes kind of goes against thebrand, almost, you know, you
need to have consistency, it canbe that one or the professional,
but it can't be both in a weirdworld. So yeah, maybe you can I
don't know. I mean, we'relearning as we go. I mean, we're
not, we're not the best exampleat anything, we are just trying
(21:33):
to do our own thing. We werewinging it in a way we were not
the I mean, none of us was aprofessional Shoemaker, shoe
designer, or shoe developer tobegin with. We so in the in the
in the same way, we were notprofessional product marketeers,
we are learning as we go, wegather the feedback from
(21:55):
friends, family, and customers.
And in the team we have, we'revery fortunate to have this
amazing team at Jack, soeveryone contributes a little
bit amazing. Well, the place tohang out on Instagram is at Jack
underscore shoes. And I shouldsay Jack is J. K. But we'll put
all the links over in the shownotes and Jack shoes.com. Also
(22:16):
to go and check out the sneakersthere and grab yourself a pair.
Jose, you got a couple ofstores, I think is it Porto and
Lisbon in Portugal? Have you gotany plans to come to the UK? We
do. Actually the UK is ourlargest markets 25% of our sales
come from the UK. The other theother 25 other another 25 come
(22:38):
from the US then it's Germany,France and only then Portugal
with 5%. I mean, you I think wehave a very fair price point for
what we build and what thesneakers cost to produce. But
unfortunately, the thePortuguese economic situation is
not.
It's not as good as as we wouldlike. And also this is I think
(23:01):
the problem when you have amanufacturing country. There's a
lot of good quality productsgoing straight from frack
factory to stores. And sometimespeople can find good quality
products without without withoutthe brand markup on it. We have
to have the brand market on it.
That's that's how we payourselves in this is supposed to
be a profitable business. ButBut yeah, we definitely want to
(23:24):
open a store in the UK that'swithin that that's in our our
timeline. We don't haveunlimited cash at hand. Maybe we
can we can.
We can do that in the nextcouple of years. We'll we're
working on it. Okay, well keepus posted. And I guess all the
(23:44):
news will break over on thewebsite. So again, people can
check that out. Jack shoes.comthe place to go. Jose, thank you
so much for jumping on. It wasreally interesting talking to
you and best of luck with thefuture.
Thank you, Peter. Thank you somuch for having me
(24:07):
you've been listening to themenswear style podcast be sure
to head over to menswear styledot code at uk for more menswear
content and email info atmenswear startup code at UK if
you'd like to be a future gueston the show. Finally, please
help support the show by leavinga review on iTunes or wherever
you're listening to thispodcast. Until next time
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.