The episode explores misconceptions about SEO's relevance in the face of AI advancements, particularly in light of new search technologies like ChatGPT. It emphasizes the importance of SEO in adapting to AI developments and highlights examples showcasing the co-existence of search engines and AI functionality.
[0:24] A recent encounter with another SEO practitioner
[3:01] The concept of the 'AI Search Fallacy' and misunderstandings
[3:37] Comparative analysis of search results from ChatGPT and Bing
[7:09] Predictions for SEO's evolution alongside AI
[10:04] Encouragement for adaptation rather than fear of obsolescence
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Episode Transcript
I was in the kitchen in my office building earlier
this week, not our kitchen.
I was in the kitchen to myoffice building and there's
another guy there, yeah, alittle older than me.
I would probably guess We'vechatted before.
Really nice guy I think hiswife works in here too and he
asked we've never like spokenmore than a few sentences.
(00:20):
But he asked what do you do?
And I said usually when I'mtalking to that generation
people in their probably 50s orolder.
I'm not really sure they'regoing to know what SEO is.
So I said, well, I do a type ofmarketing.
It's called SEO.
And I kind of raised my eyebrow.
He's like, oh really, I do SEO.
Now, this is the first timethis has ever happened to me in
(00:43):
my career.
Ever I have never just blindlysaid to someone I do SEO and
they're like, oh, me too.
I've met other people who doSEO, but that's not how I met
them.
And then he said somethingabout, well, it's probably going
to be changing soon orsomething along those lines, and
(01:05):
I was curious by that statement.
And then he went on to saythere's this new uh search
feature in chat GPT.
It looks like it's probablygonna.
I don't.
I don't think he said the wordskill SEO.
But he said, sort of that willkind of be the end of SEO.
And I could tell like rightaway I could tell, oh, he
doesn't do SEO, he offers SEO.
(01:26):
Seo is part of what he offersto and his clients are
nonprofits which is great.
That's super.
I was like, oh, that's reallycool.
Seemed like he, not somebodywho has a lot of experience in
SEO, because my responseimmediately was yeah, and I've
spoken about this here on thepodcast.
Yeah, but ChatGPT just uses asearch engine and he looked at
(01:49):
me like he didn't.
Obviously he doesn't listen tothis podcast.
Wow, but I said yeah, chatgptuses Bing, Google's AI uses
Google.
And then I thought well, ifthis person who is not really
claiming to be an SEOprofessional, but certainly
selling SEO services.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
That's what he does.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Yeah, if he still thinks, or if he thinks that
chat GPT search is going to bethe end of SEO, that seems like
it's probably a prettywidespread opinion.
I know we've talked about it onthis podcast before, but I want
to try to clear this up alittle bit.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
I think that's a good idea.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Give you a kind of tip on.
You know where things are andwhere they might be going.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, well, might be when they are.
Let's focus on where they arenow.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Okay, so I've come up with this kind of theory.
I was going to call it the AIfallacy, but I googled AI
fallacy and AI fallacy isalready something, and this is
not it, so let's call this theAI search fallacy, and there
seems to be this belief, evenamong like.
This is what I used to think.
(02:55):
This is what this guy thinksthat AI is all knowing, right it
knows everything, oh yeah.
Yeah, whatever it does, it'scoming back to you with the
right information.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Absolutely the absolute truth.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yes, there's two and that's not true.
Yeah, ok, I can give you twoexamples Of why.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
I say that's not true .
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Number one.
If you go to and I think we'vedone something sort of like this
on another episode If you go toChatGPT and you do a search who
are some of the best familyphotographers in Brooklyn it's
going to come back with a list,right?
If you go to Bing and type theexact same question, it's also
(03:33):
going to come back with resultsin a list format, basically
right.
So I did those two searches.
I'm just going to give you thelist of what ChatGPT gave me and
I'm going to give you the listof what I found on Bing.
I'm sure you might have arunning commentary on these.
First, chatgpt who are some ofthe best family photographers in
(03:55):
Brooklyn?
I'm going to just read off thislist Le Studio NYC A Lime Green
Dream Brooklyn Family PortraitDorota McCauley Photography,
daisy Betty Photography, michaelKormos Photography and Meredith
Zinner Photography.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Okay, that was ChatGPT.
Now let's go over to Bing andsame question who are some of
the best family photographers inBrooklyn?
Now it gives some local results.
First, Brooklyn Family Portrait.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
That was number two on the ChatGPT list.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Then it says Justine Cooper, not on the ChatGPT list,
meredith Zinner.
And then Blue Skies Studio, newYork Photography, not on Chet
GPT's list, the number one.
So I'm going down the searchpage here.
The number one organic resultis an article from Expertisecom
(04:51):
the top 10 family photographersin Brooklyn.
In that list, number one LaceStudio, nyc.
Number two, a Lime Green Dream.
Number three, daisy Betty.
Number four Justine Cooper, noton the chat GPT list.
Number five, karen Wise.
Number six, michael Kormos.
Number seven, emily Burke.
(05:14):
Number eight Brooklyn FamilyPortrait.
And then Lente Studio.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
So you see some.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Well no, this is a list that you literally probably
pay for and just get onto.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Oh, yeah, right.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
So, but you can see there's some pretty heavy
overlap.
Where do you suppose ChatGPTcame up with those results?
Yeah, so that was examplenumber one.
Example number two I was doinga search recently on Google and
I was actually doing it duringpart of a workshop, so I was
(05:48):
doing it live.
And I did a search on Googleabout something about SEO.
I was just trying todemonstrate some results and in
the AI-generated response thatcame back, it said to do
something that was clearly spam,clearly violated Google's
policy.
It was spam.
It wasn't it's not mysubjective opinion, it was
(06:10):
really spam.
Now, how does that happen?
Yeah, now, how does that happen?
Well, I was doing a liveworkshop so I couldn't dive
deeper, but I can almostguarantee that there is a blog
somewhere near the top of Googlethat says you should do that.
And so what Google's AI doingis something very similar to
Bing.
It's scanning the top results.
It's taking what it thinks isthe best advice or the most
(06:33):
authoritative advice and puttingit into its AI results.
Now, why am I telling you this?
What does this mean?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
That you can't trust everything you read in AI.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
That's true, but also this is the next evolution of
SEO.
This is how SEO changes.
People keep saying SEO is dead.
No, SEO adapts Like literally.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Like everything.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Literally.
If you're using ChatGPT as asearch engine, why wouldn't
search engine optimization stillapply this?
Is true, even if the actual,even if chat, gpt and AI results
are kind of a layer on top ofthe actual search engine.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Because what it's kind of basically doing is it's
just Googling shit for youputting it in and summarizing
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
And you said the second example, the most recent,
when you were teaching a thingythat I think you did.
You say it was in Google orChatGPT.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
That was in Google.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Okay, because you may have said ChatGPT Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Well, if I did, then I meant to say Google.
So this is really, I think, thefirst big evolution in SEO in
probably, I would say, a decade.
Like SEO changes little bitspretty much constantly, but this
is a pretty big shift, soclients used to ask me.
I haven't gotten this questionrecently, but they used to ask
(08:01):
how do?
I get my website into AI andI've mentioned that before on
the podcast and for a long timeit was like I don't know, nobody
knows.
Like we have no idea now.
It's pretty obvious how thatworks.
I don't know what's going tohappen in the future, but for
right now what?
For right now two things youcan be at the top of search
engines yeah, that's, that's thebest way.
And number two, be onadditional lists, like that list
(08:25):
I read from expertisecom yeah,so my question is pay for those
things?
That's part of SEO.
Some of those lists are goingto be worth it and some are not.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Okay, how do you differentiate?
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Probably the best advice I could give you is if
you see a list that's somewherenear the top of Google, that
would be a good one to be on.
Okay, a list that you can'tfind anywhere in Google, you
know what?
Google doesn't reallyappreciate that list very much,
so I would say don't worry aboutthat one.
So, it's not going to take whatis in that list and put it in
its AI results Makes sense.
(08:59):
So there is kind of a circularaspect to this and it does make
it confusing.
I'm still, you know, right nowwhat I'm doing in terms of being
a consultant is that's whereI'm looking.
How is that algorithm whateveralgorithm is going to select
results from search engines andselect which lists to look at.
(09:19):
That is what I say when I meanthe next evolution of SEO.
It's looking at that.
So that's where we are now.
You might be wondering, well,what's next?
What's coming next?
What should I be?
prepared for yeah that I don'tknow, but what I can say is you
(09:40):
don't need to freak out andthink that SEO is dead and
there's this whole new thingthat's going to take over.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Immediately overnight .
Speaker 1 (09:49):
It will take care of it.
There's people like me workingon this, and so I guess my
message for the episode is Idon't know the future, but don't
worry about it, We'll take careof it Whatever happens it's
going to happen Right, andchange is inevitable.
Yeah, we're going to keepchanging.
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