January 8, 2026 • 35 mins
Athletic Reporter Will Sammon joins us to talk all about the Mets' offseason. Links to Framber Valdez and Kyle Tucker, figuring out why free agency has moved to slowly, where the Mets stand in the trade market, and much more.
0:00 - What's Up Mets Fans
1:14 - Framber Valdez
11:23 - Kyle Tucker
23:48 - Hopes for Rotation
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
What is up, Mets fans, Welcome back to another episode
of the Mets Stuff podcast. Today we were joined with
Will Salmon again to talk about the Mets offseason. There
hasn't been a ton going on, but if there's anybody
who's had his finger on the pulse, it's been Will
all off season. Will thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Yeah, any time, guys. Always got the Chat Mets with
you guys.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
Yeah, happy to have you on Chat Mets too, because,
first of all, just commends on what's been a banner
off season for you so far. You've been You've been
on the nose on basically every single move, every transaction,
every single inkling that's happened in the Mets world. And
if anybody's not subscribe to the Athletic Reading what Will's
writing on practically a daily basis at this point because
the guy's dynamo. You got to get on there and
check these out, because that's, let's say, a step ahead
(00:48):
of the Mets News. But a couple of articles you
put out in the last few days, namely two with
Ken Rosenthal where there were some links in it between
relative links again links is you know we're using links
as a pretty general here between likelihood the Framber Valdes
to the Mets. I think a lot of the Mets
fans are still very concerned with the team's rotation at
this moment, and Framber seems like the most obvious fit.
(01:09):
There is there any connection, there is there any relative
likelihood to a contract be made there with your feelings
on Framber.
Speaker 5 (01:16):
Yeah, So with Framberveldez and the Mets, I think there's
a decent chance that that could be a connection down
the road. I think at first, like something that I
reported is they're exploring the trade market.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
I don't know how long that will last, and I
don't know to what end. Of course, I can't predict
whether or.
Speaker 5 (01:31):
Not they actually pull somebody off from another team that
works for their rotation. But I do know that they're
looking for, or they're at least open to the idea
of the rental pitcher, i e. Somebody who is going
to be a free agent after the season, or somebody
with a little bit more club control. And you have
other segments within those two as well. You have guys
who are more of like a front line number one types,
(01:54):
and you have other guys who are more like inning
zero types as well, So like it definitely varies, and
I think think either probably helps the Mets rotation. I
would argue that frankly, they may need somebody of higher quality,
like somebody who's like a number one or number two.
But as long as I feel like you could put
that person, whoever it ends up being somewhere in the
(02:15):
front half of the rotation, whether it's one, two, or three,
you're definitely better off and you're probably probably something that
you should do. Even if it's somebody who maybe a
less glamorous name, who could be a number three, as
long as he's maybe dependable, as long as he's somebody
who could log innings for you, I think that there
is something to that for this club, especially.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
So in regards to Framberville.
Speaker 5 (02:36):
Does he fits that description of course right, Like he's
somebody who has had a long history of success, and
he not only performs well when he pitches for the
most part, he's also somebody that logs innings as well,
and so he's pretty durable, or at least he has
demonstrated as much.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
I think with Framberg though, is that there's.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
An age component to this, Like he's on the older side,
even for free age. And so there's reluctance there, not
just the Mets, but perhaps some other teams as well
to maybe go to a long term deal on Framber Valdez.
So if the Mets don't end up pulling off a
trade here, I could see them going to Framburgh and saying, look,
you know, we have a short term offer for you.
(03:18):
Not to say that they have one right now, but
just if we go down this path, that's something I
can see them doing and saying, hey, this is what
we could do, A high annual average value for you,
maybe even like you could opt out, maybe do something creative.
I could see those types of things being part of
some things that are in play for the Mets and pitching.
So yeah, I would say that there is a connection there.
It's just not as developed quite yet as I understand it.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I know you mentioned the trade market. Right now, we've
got rumors going around about Edward Cabrera possibly being trade
to the Cubs waiting for those deals to finalize. Were
the Mets involved at all? We saw the Yankees were
not particularly close. Were the Mets even involved.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
Well, we did hear that the Yankees were in the
mix for at the very least. I think it could
be not exactly semantics, but it kind of varies as
far as what the person, which person you're talking to
in like their definition of maybe close and that kind
of thing, which is probably not worth getting into.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
But yeah, I think that the Mets they should have
been involved.
Speaker 5 (04:15):
I don't know to what extent that they actually were,
because again, this is somebody that's going to probably we
don't know exactly what the Cubs are paying for this
in terms of prospect capital or however else, but it
should cost them a good amount because Cabrera is on
the cusp of I feel like at least really breaking
out if he hasn't already. I thought he had a
good season last year, but there were still some ups
and downs to it. And I think that the Miami
(04:37):
Marlins do not get enough credit for the way that
they're developing their pictures. Lately, they've been doing a really
good job of that. So he's somebody that's really on
the cusp of it. And for me, as far as
the Mets go, I don't know this definitively, but I
would look at it as it's a high price to
pay when you don't have that much in the form
of reliability within your rotation already, and again I'll to
(04:59):
say that isn't reliable. It's shows he's got some injury
history and he's yet to kind of put it all
together for like, say, thirty two starts, and at least
for that for one season, let alone do it consecutive,
consecutively and demonstrate that he could be somebody that does
that for the rest of the rest of the time
that you have him.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Yeah, just to give people a sense of Edward Cabrera's career,
this was the first time he'd crossed one hundred inning
plateau and he still only got to one hundred and
thirty seven and missed him Simeon with injury well hitting
new heights he hasn't hit yet in his career. With
the Mets being involved in some of these trade discussions,
will do you ever get a sense of the types
of prospects the Mets are willing to part with, the
types are definitely not willing to part with. We think
(05:38):
at this point it seems fairly certain of course not
Nolan McClane, er Carson Bench, but also probably not Joonahtong,
but was there as the mid tier of the Mets
system grows stronger and stronger. Is there any kind of
way you think the Mets types of guys they would
part ways with.
Speaker 5 (05:53):
Yeah, I think that they're open to different things that
like the guys that you mentioned are probably close to
off limits, if not pretty much off limits.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Especially McLain.
Speaker 5 (06:03):
I think that he's in a bracket on his own actually,
and then it's the everybody else and you can kind
of go with a different bracket for maybe Bench and Tong,
But I just feel like McLain is like alone in
a class of his own, so roughly so, but yeah,
I think that they could that they're probably open to
different thing It depends on who was out there or
who they've had discussions on. For instance, like a a
(06:26):
Joe Ryan type, who I guess isn't as out there
as maybe he people thought he would be at the
beginning of the off season. For him you would have
had to pay a huge price for. And so it's
a different conversation with for somebody like him than you're
having with say somebody like a Brady Singer from the
Cincinnati Reads of course, right obviously.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
So yeah, I think that they're that it kind of
depends on that.
Speaker 5 (06:46):
And the way that I've put it is like they
they've been pretty open and probably a bit stingy though
on you know, who they are willing to give up
otherwise like there would have been a trade already probably right, yeah, yeah,
So like we could kind of deduce that they've been
valuing their prospects pretty highly, and that's probably fine because look,
(07:11):
they have one of the best classes in baseball, so
like clearly, like those guys.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Are supposed to be pretty talented.
Speaker 5 (07:16):
So I don't want to say that like they're doing
it and it's like, Okay, this is crazy and it's misplaced.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
There's probably something.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
There's probably something to like being careful about it. That said,
I think that they're reaching a point, whether it's this
week or next week, it's going to be pretty soon
where they have to really decide, like are we going
to make this kind of move or are we better
suited for somebody like a framdburg.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Valdez or a Ranger Suarez or somebody like that.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
And that's even saying that, like maybe you can't even
get those guys on a short term contract, like I
suggested that would be the approach, but maybe their markets
get better.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Than that, so as other teams that make those decisions.
Speaker 5 (07:53):
But I feel like these next two weeks, even maybe
just this week, it's a critical for a decision making
for the Mets in terms of the prospects that they're
willing to give up and which pitchers that they want
to acquire, because after that group of like BENJ McClain,
I think you have a group of like Check Williams.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
There's some other guys go down the list.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
That they probably should consider dealing in addition to those
infielders who are already on the major league part of
the major league group, like a Ronnie Mauricio Luis Anhilocunya,
those guys who are no longer prospects who are trade candidates.
Obviously Mark Fientos is part of that group as well,
who they would probably be open on moving.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Or listening to as far as offers go.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
So yeah, that's kind of the group, and from where
it goes, who knows, But they definitely have to make
a decision on that sooner rather than later.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
If you were to ask Mets fans, I feel like
most of them are saying how badly this team needs
started pitching help We've talked about it too, that the
outfield is very incomplete for this team right now. Don't
have a center fielder, don't have a left fielder. We
hope Carson benj can fill in at some point, but
as you put in your article on the Athletic, the
Mets don't necessarily want him to have to be the guy.
They want him to earn that position, they want him
(09:03):
to grow into it. Do the Mets seem more interested
in finding guys to fill outfield or starting pitching right now?
Speaker 5 (09:09):
In your opinion, My impression was the rotation was the
seemingly like the priority, like the trade market and just
exploring that for right now though you could only do
multiple things at the same time, And also like it's
still pretty high up there in their list of things
to do, Like they know that they need at least
a left fielder, right Like, that's wide open and you
(09:30):
just traded not just but you traded Jack McNeil fairly
recently and made the decision that he is not going
to be your left fielder, so that's wide open as possible.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
And then in center I feel like you mentioned like
with Benj like.
Speaker 5 (09:42):
Sure like in theory, I think the question that was
asked me in that article that you reference was like,
how much faith does David Stearns has?
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Yeah, yeah, some faith in him.
Speaker 5 (09:50):
I mean the guy's supposed to be pretty good, so yeah, Like,
but that doesn't mean that they're going to hand him
the job. Like, this guy has not really proven capable
of triple A quite yet. I mean capable is probably
the wrong way to put it, but like, he hasn't performed,
and he hasn't mastered that level yet. And he hasn't
he hadn't been there that long, and when he was,
(10:12):
it was at the end of the season and the
numbers weren't that good. So he's got some proving to do.
So it's gonna be a big spring training for him.
But I think that the Mets are probably best suited
getting two outfielders and somebody preferably who could handle center field.
I think that's probably a little bit more important than
people are giving or making it out to be, actually,
because it was a problem last year and it never
got solved, and now you added to that with that
(10:36):
gaping hole in the left field, so there's plenty of
work to do in that lineup. I'd also say that
depending on who those outfielders or outfielder is that you
are that.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
You are acquiring.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
You need some right handed help out as well, and
I think that could come in the form of maybe
somebody who is a bad first guy who could DH
a little bit be part of that mix.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
But they need some thump behind.
Speaker 5 (10:58):
Juan Soto and those other, you know, first two or
three guys in that lineup, because you no longer have
Pete Alonso doing that.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
So that to me is definitely high on the priority list.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
Funny enough, the outfielders that seem to be available the
Mets have at least been mildly connected to being Kyle
Tucker at the top, Cody Bellinger in the middle, than
large new Bark.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Kind of more is the budget options.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Those are all left handed bats, so it is kind
of getting more difficult to see how the Mets find
that right handed power bet. But Tucker's the name that
flies around a lot. There's been some reports, especially out
of North Bendix and Smith, that Toronto thinks the Mets
are more of a player for that. I know in
the articles with you and Ken, you've still kind of
pushed that it's more likely to be the Dodgers in
the Blue Jays, has there been contact made? And also
(11:43):
how long do you think the Mets would actually be
willing to go from what you've heard in the deal
for Kyle Tucker.
Speaker 5 (11:48):
Yeah, so I think Jim Ducat actually a former long
time executive who networks serious this mess and why stuff
as well, he put out a tweet out or a
post saying that the Mets, the Dodgers, and the Blue
Jays were three of the most aggressive teams and those
those are contenders for Kylin Tucker. I don't know if
it's limited to that group, but those are among the
teams that are options for him.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
As far as the Mets go.
Speaker 5 (12:12):
I've been pretty consistent about this throughout the off season
of saying that like Bellinger, Kyle Tucker, those guys are
options for the Mets.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
But I don't see.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
Them giving either of those players like a long term deal.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
I think that it's more of a short.
Speaker 5 (12:27):
Term thing, where like if their markets are if those
guys are not getting those big numbers that they expected
or that people expected for them at the beginning of
the off season, Klin Tucker, for instance, like three hundred
million forms like for like if they're not getting those numbers,
then I think like a three year deal or with
like opt outs or something creative like that could be
the Mets play. I don't know if really his market
(12:49):
has materialized enough yet or developed enough yet for it
to even get to that point where like those types of.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Offers have been extended or not.
Speaker 5 (12:57):
I wouldn't be surprised if it's still too early for that,
but I would expect that to be probably the Mets play.
There is the three year type of deal and high
annual average value and the pitch of like, hey, you
join Juan Soto and Francisco Lindor and all of a sudden,
like the Mets.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Are a World Series, like a serious world serious.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
Contender, big time, I would argue, because you think that
they're going to add pitching as well of course, So yeah,
I think we kind of get into like whether or
not the Mets are actually good with that with or
without him, that's a different kind of conversation, but certainly
with him they'd be a they'd definitely be boosting their
World Series odds.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
To say the least.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Is there surprise across the industry of how slow the
off season has been over the last couple of weeks or.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
So, there's been frustration.
Speaker 5 (13:47):
Of course, I don't know about expectations go, but it's
been a weird offseason. I think at the forefront of it,
you have a free agent class that wasn't viewed as
all that deep and for a lot of teams, a
lot of these players are not great fits for and
even in say like kle Talker's market, the teams that
(14:07):
we just mentioned there, they're all like big market teams, right,
like those three teams, and like the Yankees were loosely
connected to.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Them for a little while, and whoever else, but like.
Speaker 5 (14:15):
They're all like these big market teams, and so once
like Colleg Schwarber and Pete Alonzo got wrapped up during
the winter meetings. It doesn't really it doesn't surprise me
that like it has lagged just because it was a
class that I've had some executives describe it to me
as mediocre after like those top names.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Like there's just not a whole lot of depth to it.
Speaker 5 (14:37):
So if you look at the list, I understand, like
I understand like it compared to other classes, like where
it ranks. And there's also a bunch of teams that
are in the trade market, and the trade market involves
multiple teams that want to get better and they're not
looking to like mail in the twenty twenty sixth season,
and so that's made it slow because you're not trading
(14:58):
prospects for players, trading like major league talent for major
league talent, and those deals are hard to hard to make.
So it's fun when they line up, but it takes
a lot for that to happen. It's not as I
guess smooth as that prospect hall for like that one
superstar type player, so like we don't have that as much.
And the market overall was kind of strange because you
(15:20):
had more closers and like high leverage relievers who are
of interest this year, and usually that's something that gets
done like around now and bleeds into February. Even for
the most part, like ninety five percent of the high
leverage relievers are all scooped up already. So it's been
a very strange and very different offseason.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
It's funny today when we're recording this. On January seventh
is the anniversary of the Francisco Indoor a bunch of
prospects for super star trade by the mess which you
kind of wish something like that come up right now.
Also with just the slowness of the winter. It feels
like the one time the Mets have acted with any
sense of urgency, be it relative urgency, was signing Jorge
Polanco after the flurry of Edward Diaz and p Alonzo
(16:02):
left almost a month after that deal. How does that
one look in hindsight again, because it felt like that
happened kind of out of clear blue sky.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
You were the only one who had Polanco connect to.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
The Mets, like twelve hours before that deal was made,
But that was Is it a surprise? That was the
one time the Mets kind of jumped out of the
seat and made something happen.
Speaker 5 (16:18):
Well we know about the Mets, or that we should
know about the Mets is like they're going to be aggressive,
like when they read the market and the market is
telling them like, Okay, the light's gone on, like let's
outbid for this type of player if this is the
guy that we want. And it just so happened that
Jorge Polanco was somebody that they really really liked and
his market was thriving, like he had a pretty solid market,
like he had teams that were interested in him, whether
(16:40):
it was the Mariners or the Pirates or whoever else,
and like he was ready to go, and that's what
you need, Like you need the player who's willing to
be like, Okay, I'm these are the offers I'm getting,
or at least this is the way that teams are
perceiving me.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
So I don't foresee that changing for whatever reason. I'm
ready to go with whatever it gets extended that I
think is the best offer.
Speaker 5 (17:00):
And so the Mets did that, and you know, like
after that, like guys like Ron O'Hearn did get picked up, right,
so like it wasn't that as if it was like
in a vacuum, like they just got plunker like there
were some other there were a couple of guys that
did go afterward, and if he was the one guy
that you were circling in that tier, then it made
(17:21):
sense to go do it. So And frankly, there aren't
a whole lot of guys who are like him in
the market actually, like he doesn't really have that many peers.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I think like O'Hearn is kind of similar.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
They do some different things, but there's some aspects of
versatility to each of those players.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
So I get why they would do it.
Speaker 5 (17:41):
You could quipple with the idea of whether or not
he's going to be a decent first baseman or not.
That remains to be seen, right, Like, we don't know
that they're banking on the athleticism aspect of that, But
as far as just like the overall player and like
liking his offensive profile, I could see like why they
would have swooped.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
In the way that they did with Mauricia and Vientos
and Acunya. They kind of are all fighting for similar
ish spots. Obviously they do different things. And you mentioned
in one of your articles too that these guys could
be on the block. Is that from the Mets wanting
to move these guys or listening to offers more.
Speaker 5 (18:13):
So, well, I think that they're at a place where
they realize there's just not a whole lot of playing
time for these guys after the Marcus Simon acquisition.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
And actually like the way that Brett Batty.
Speaker 5 (18:25):
Performed in the second half or whether it was around
June or whatever, it was, where he picked things up
and became fairly consistent both defensively and offensively, and he
deserves the runway for third days. So if you're looking
at third base being Brett Bady spot right now, second
base being Marcus Simiam. Obviously they're not gonna be playing
(18:46):
short stop for the Mets, and they're not first baseman.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Well, I guess Biento's is.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
But that's really the one decision point, right, Like, that's
where I pause, because it's Viano's is the guy where
they have to make the call on what I referenced
earlier about a right handed bat who could maybe be
a bad first guy. The bar that they have to
clear is like, could Mark Viento's be this guy? And
if this guy whoever it is, is going to offer
(19:14):
more consistency or more of a prove it type of thing,
then they probably have to go get that guy. Because
Mark Vento showed you that there's still some ups and
downs to his game last year unfortunately. So whether or
not like they trade those guys, I'm not sure because
that's the decision again, like they have to make, and
I'm not sure where they're at with it. But we're
(19:35):
also talking about players who are out of options, a
couple of them, right, So, like there's not a whole
lot of things that they could do with these with
a couple of these guys like Mauricio, you could still
start in TRIPLEA.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
They preserve that option there.
Speaker 5 (19:48):
But I go back to Brett Baidy in just the way,
the way that he played in the second half of
last year.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
He just deserves to shot.
Speaker 5 (19:56):
And I'm with the fans who have kind of gone
back and forth with like they all can't be getting
like a third of the playing time, like you got,
you got to give the keys to somebody here, and
Brett Baty deserves them, so I expect them to roll
with him at third base, and therefore they should be
looking for trade partners for the other guys.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
Yeah, it's just a question probably now of how much
of those guys can be worth in a trade, especially,
I mean, you got like Mauricio is the one that's
always I always find interesting because it feels he has
really played baseball in three years, Like the way the
Mets manipulated his option last year, he kind of lost
a full year after missing a full year after missing
most of the year, and you wish that happens also to.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
The right handed first base point.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
It felt like that bar of Mark Fiento's is something
the Mets didn't see someone like Kazumo Kamoto, clearing as
right handed first base option who signed a bit of
a larger deal than expect at least committed years wise
with the Blue Jays over the weekend. And then similarly,
tatsuim the starting pitcher coming from the NPB, signed a
much smaller deal than a lot of people expected, basically
(20:56):
a one year, twenty one million dollar proved deal with
the Astros. The Mets involved in negotiations with these two
guys at all, they mostly kind of stay out of them.
Speaker 5 (21:05):
Yeah, negotiations not not that I know of. For those,
I'm not even sure like what their levels of moderate
interest in was.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Frankly with im, you know, they're not alone there.
Speaker 5 (21:17):
Like there were a bunch of teams that looked at
his profile and said, okay, we have questions about how
his fastball is going to play, even though he throws hard, Like,
is that going to be a pitch that he has
to throw a lot and maybe hitters wise up to it,
And all of a sudden, he's only given us three
four or five innings max. And I think that's reflected
(21:39):
in the contract that he signed, because like, not only
was it a short term deal, but like the incentives
the player bonuses kick in at eighty innings for him,
which is a fairly low number for a starting pitcher,
like usually we see those over one hundred, maybe one twenty,
like that kind of thing. For it to be at
eighty kind of tells you, like people have some questions
about this, and so I don't I get it. But again,
(22:01):
like going back to the context surrounding Edward Carrera, it's
hard for me to see the Mets bring in an
unknown like that, even though he does have that potential
when you have other guys who are unknowns in your
rotation already, and like you desperately need some reliability, So
I get the one with you my completely, actually, even
though I think that there's a decent chance that he
does fairly well, especially his first year here. We've seen
(22:24):
that with other pictures from Japan, particularly with Minaga with
the Cubs who had done well early on, and some
others as well. But Okamoda is the guy who actually
thought they could have had some more interest in, or
should have had some more interest in, just because it's
on paper a decent fit.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
But again, like they weren't alone.
Speaker 5 (22:42):
With like maybe being a little bit lukewarm about it
at best. His market was fairly good from what I understand,
Like he had some teams and that part of it
was reflected like he's got what was a four year deal,
So that's pretty good for a guy coming.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Yeah, so but the teams has some questions about his defense.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
I know, like a lot of people are quick to say, like, Okay,
he's better than mir or COMI like, okay, sure, but
like how good is he though? Like like that should
not be the bar the bar that everybody's trying to
clear here, like to compare, Yeah, if you want to
compare the two players, like, yeah, he's the better defender,
but like, do we think that he's going to be
a good defender? Some team said no. So, like that's
(23:24):
the feedback that I got from clubs around the league.
Was like when I asked, like, well, why why wouldn't
a team be in on him?
Speaker 3 (23:31):
That was like the one thing that kind of came up.
Speaker 5 (23:33):
But you know, we started the conversation by talking about
a bad first profile, right, So like yeah, that's why
I say, like, Okay, he's the one guy who I'm
like very curious about how he performs and that I'll
be monitoring, and he's like a guy that you could
look back on in a couple of months and be like,
should they have done this or not?
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Do you think that the Mets are inclined to trade
any of their pitchers? I know we need pitching, but
the fact that there is and this is like the
worst thing you could ever say. There's so many starting
pitchers in this organization right now, Like what's the feel
on maybe not even moving like a prospect, maybe somebody
who's in the rotation already right now.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
I could see it.
Speaker 5 (24:08):
Yeah, they've gotten calls on that for sure, Like David
Peterson is somebody that they've gotten calls on. Sangle Obviously
we've reported and talked about that here even so yeah,
I could see it, especially because like if you're talking
about like even adding like more than one, you get
to a point with the Mets where like you have
to subtract then like if we're going to add two,
you have to subtract somebody because there just aren't enough spots.
(24:29):
Because I actually, and this is reflected in like fangraps
is like war projections, and like betting odds, the over
under on the Mets this year, like it' is at
like what eighty six or something like that, six and
a half, and the fangraps war is putting them at
like fifth place right now, like you know, number five
in the ranking. So it's better than like what people
give them credit for. But the rotation itself kind of
(24:50):
lacks that number down. But I will say that, like
from the Mets perspective, there's some upside in the idea
of like, Okay, we're gonna get a second season out
of Clay Holmes as a starting pitcher. We think that
Manaia is healthy. Now, really there's only up for quote
I sega, right, that's the only direction you can go
at this point, and they're looking at a full season
of Nolan McLain. So you kind of talk yourself into like, okay,
(25:13):
like this may not be like a sky's falling type
of thing. And even so, like you have I just
named a few guys like you have a rotation in place.
It's just a matter of like getting somebody else to
sort of be that anchor to it in addition to
Nolan McLain, because Manaia is that question mark right now.
So yeah, I think that like you could see it,
it would be more of a question. I think like
(25:34):
once they add somebody, because then that really forces them
to look at their rotation and say who's in and
who's out, and something that will get decided in the spring.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Training as well.
Speaker 5 (25:44):
Like I wouldn't be surprised if like this bleeds, especially
concidering how slow this officerason has been. Like it may
be one of those things where like just because the
calendar says spring training has started, it doesn't necessarily mean
the off season has ended.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Like as far as like moves.
Speaker 5 (25:57):
Go, they'll see like a whole lot of like, yeah,
it can be pretty dreadful in that sense where like
we're kind of like mentally ready for it to be over,
but like there's still so much left unresolved that we
could see a lot of teams still be making moves
and making making deals even uh laid into late into
the days of the off season early into spring spring training.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
With that pitching depth of mets do do do truly have?
While it's a lot of like you know, kind of
four is five, some six is maybe halful of threes
at the moment, Plus McLain, we have seen the last
few years that attrition sometimes is the thing that knocks
teams down the most. The way the Mets season kind
of went off the rails last year is the fact
a lot of these guys got hurt at the same
time and they didn't necessarily have the six, seven, eight
(26:38):
guys ready to go and step in. With that being said,
and the way the reliever market has dried up, this
is still a very incomplete bullpen. I'm gonna pull some
questions from the Met Stuff discord, which link will be
in description of this show down below, So shout out
Mets believe it and KU's besides guys like Michael Kopec's
Ranthy Domingez, Like, do we really finally see maybe guys
like sprot and Tongue into this bullpen by mid season
(27:01):
to kind of get their feet more wet and major league.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Guy or even past them?
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Is someone like Zach Thornton or possibly even Will Watson's
going to get Triple A reps this year? Are any
of these guys that either just debuted last year besides
McLean or yet to debut in position to possibly pitch
and relief if the rotation depth holds up?
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Four part question.
Speaker 5 (27:20):
There, Yeah, I'll try to knock out here hopefully, But
Sprot's a guy that comes to mind as somebody capable
of doing that. And like David Sartins has done that
in the past with the Milwaukee Brewers. And I know
people shudder when I say Brewers because it's like they
don't want to do the things.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
That the Brewers do.
Speaker 5 (27:37):
But word, yeah, but like he had success with this
and like and by what I mean by that is
like Brendan Woodrup did it, Freddy Parulta did it, Corbyn
Burns did it. There were other guys as well, where
you break in the pitcher and he's a multi inning
type of guy for you, who's going two three innings
out of the bullpen and bridging that gap, and like,
(27:59):
look like the Met's gonna use somebody like that. Actually,
last year they could used a lot of things last year.
Maybe if their pictures through more than five innings that
that wouldn't be a needy either. But you know, you
digress there, and yeah, looking ahead with their bullpen, sure
that could be a spot for them out of spring training.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
I'm I'm not sure if like that's the decision right now.
Speaker 5 (28:20):
I think there's still some things left to be unresolved
there as far as like who they're trading from their
rotation and what people that they bring into their rotation.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
But it could flow that way where.
Speaker 5 (28:30):
Like a spot is given to somebody like a Sproute
who has shown that he could pitch in the major
leagues a little bit and probably has mastered Triple A
at this point.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
So yeah, that that could be a thing.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
But I still argue that they need some like guys
who are like high leverage guys though beyond that, because
right now you have Weaver and getting ball to Devin Williams, Like,
I don't know, I feel like there's there's room for
another ad there for sure.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Is there anything funny about how the Mets have just
casually been signing Yankey's players left and right, Like obviously,
like the Mets fans, that drives them absolutely insane, But like,
is there something too that or like James even mentioned
it before on the podcast that like probably for some
of these guys like I like New York and I
can play for the Mets, like that's another great fit.
Speaker 5 (29:16):
Well, it's not easy to play here either though, So
like when you look at it from like the team perspective,
it's like you already know that they've done it before here,
and so I think that does that is part of it.
Like it has to be part of the calculus there
to see and look. And it's a question that doesn't
have to be asked right like, and in every other
conversation that you're having with a free agent, that comes
(29:36):
across your mind as to how is he going to
perform in this market?
Speaker 3 (29:40):
And people will say, well, Devin Williams wasn't good in
this market.
Speaker 5 (29:43):
Well, I'd actually pushed back on that and say that
he was actually pretty good in this market because he
had the experience of being awful at and actually overcoming
that and being pretty damn good. And so like I
give the guy a lot of credit for that, and
the idea that he actually chose to come back yeah,
New York after that, I think a lot about him.
So like, yeah, that's part of that. I think it's funny, yes,
(30:07):
but like there's also like when you look back and
analyze it, it makes all the sense in the world
to me because it's a question that gets answered right away.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
Yeah it Sarn's mentioned that in the now infamous postseason
press conference about not maybe not adhering enough to that
with guys like Hellsy and Mullins not really anticipating possible.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Struggles with the market enough.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
But will I got one more funny questions you for
you from the discord again, Thanksgi for coming on. You've
been probably one of the busiest men in baseball media
this offseason, so you're finding the time.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
We and all the listeners appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
But when you're kind of taking in rumors to compile
one of these articles or some media availability, like you're
giving us right now, how do you kind of parse
through what could be real, what could be fake?
Speaker 2 (30:48):
What's your method of corroboration?
Speaker 4 (30:49):
Like how is it kind of like national intelligence where
you hear a million things a day then you have
to kind of decide what can be real and which
ones do you have to chase?
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Just give us a sense of that process for you.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Speaker 5 (31:01):
It's a hard one to answer without like giving away
like who I talk to ye, But yeah, it's tricky because,
like you, there is an element of I think wanting
to first share something that's new and revealing and helps.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Shed some light on a topic.
Speaker 5 (31:22):
But like I take a lot of pride in like
being very careful about it as well, like I want
people to know that, like, if it's coming from me,
it's not just because somebody decided to message me and
I'm running with it.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
Like it's been.
Speaker 5 (31:35):
Vetted, it's been to the best of my ability, uh,
something that I feel.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Good about being true.
Speaker 5 (31:43):
Right, Like a lot of this stuff, there's some agendas,
there's some I don't know, like there's reasons why people
are sharing this information for you, right that like you
have to mentally sort it through and double check. But
I think that's part of the job. And I think
not to go like too much into the weeds on this.
But like with baseball media and sports media, sometimes like
(32:05):
with like the transactions and like that type of news,
we lose the idea that this is supposed to be
like journalism, like this is supposed to be like a
journalistic integrity to it. That like we should like not
just care about the amount of like retweets and likes
we're getting out of a transaction post and actually make
sure that like no, like this interest is actually real.
(32:26):
And not only that, but here are the consequences to
the move. Here's what's at stake. Here's like the viewpoint
from like both sides A bit as to why it
may or may not happen. I think those things are important,
and like, those are the things that I try to
go after in my reporting because I feel like there's
some value to that, especially for people who are reading
it to better understand like the club that they root for,
(32:48):
as to like okay, like why are they taking this approach?
Why weren't they doing this or why are they doing that?
And to me, that's just it's more interesting and it's
more rewarding frankly than chasing, Like Okay, Joe Reliever has
six teams interested in him.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
And there's definitely a place for that type of thing.
Speaker 5 (33:07):
And like I'm not I do the same thing if right,
Like you've referenced an article this.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Morning that came out. It had a line like that
for somebody.
Speaker 5 (33:14):
So like I'm not saying anything out of turn or
against anybody else, but like I just love when I'm
able to go a step further with things.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
And the only way to do that is.
Speaker 5 (33:23):
To make sure that the reporting is strong, so that
to me is of high priority all the time.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Yeah, I mean, I don't think we can speak for
all Mets fans, but I think we all appreciate what
you do and it's nice in a world where, like
you said, sometimes there could be alter your motives that
we just we get good journalistic stuff from you, so
will thank you so much again. Let the people know
where they can find all your work. And thanks for
coming on mets up again.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Yeah, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Guys.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Always going to chat with you.
Speaker 5 (33:48):
We'll always have some stuff on the mets on the
Athletic dot com as well as natural reporting like your
reference with Ken Rosenthal and I'm on x at Will
Salmon and most other social media accounts as well is
the same.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Awesome. That's it, guys. Thank you us so much for watching.
Make sure subscribe to mets up on YouTube. If you're
listening to us, Apple podcast, Spotify, Google drops the RNE
drops a review, download and subscribe. We'll catch you all
in the next one.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
Peace out peace houck guys, thanks again, well that sa
What is up, Mets fans, Welcome back to another episode
of the Mets Stuff podcast. Today we were joined with
Will Salmon again to talk about the Mets offseason. There
hasn't been a ton going on, but if there's anybody
who's had his finger on the pulse, it's been Will
all off season. Will thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Yeah, any time, guys. Always got the Chat Mets with
you guys.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
Yeah, happy to have you on Chat Mets too, because,
first of all, just commends on what's been a banner
off season for you so far. You've been You've been
on the nose on basically every single move, every transaction,
every single inkling that's happened in the Mets world. And
if anybody's not subscribe to the Athletic Reading what Will's
writing on practically a daily basis at this point because
the guy's dynamo. You got to get on there and
check these out, because that's, let's say, a step ahead
(00:48):
of the Mets News. But a couple of articles you
put out in the last few days, namely two with
Ken Rosenthal where there were some links in it between
relative links again links is you know we're using links
as a pretty general here between likelihood the Framber Valdes
to the Mets. I think a lot of the Mets
fans are still very concerned with the team's rotation at
this moment, and Framber seems like the most obvious fit.
(01:09):
There is there any connection, there is there any relative
likelihood to a contract be made there with your feelings
on Framber.
Speaker 5 (01:16):
Yeah, So with Framberveldez and the Mets, I think there's
a decent chance that that could be a connection down
the road. I think at first, like something that I
reported is they're exploring the trade market.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
I don't know how long that will last, and I
don't know to what end. Of course, I can't predict
whether or.
Speaker 5 (01:31):
Not they actually pull somebody off from another team that
works for their rotation. But I do know that they're
looking for, or they're at least open to the idea
of the rental pitcher, i e. Somebody who is going
to be a free agent after the season, or somebody
with a little bit more club control. And you have
other segments within those two as well. You have guys
who are more of like a front line number one types,
(01:54):
and you have other guys who are more like inning
zero types as well, So like it definitely varies, and
I think think either probably helps the Mets rotation. I
would argue that frankly, they may need somebody of higher quality,
like somebody who's like a number one or number two.
But as long as I feel like you could put
that person, whoever it ends up being somewhere in the
(02:15):
front half of the rotation, whether it's one, two, or three,
you're definitely better off and you're probably probably something that
you should do. Even if it's somebody who maybe a
less glamorous name, who could be a number three, as
long as he's maybe dependable, as long as he's somebody
who could log innings for you, I think that there
is something to that for this club, especially.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
So in regards to Framberville.
Speaker 5 (02:36):
Does he fits that description of course right, Like he's
somebody who has had a long history of success, and
he not only performs well when he pitches for the
most part, he's also somebody that logs innings as well,
and so he's pretty durable, or at least he has
demonstrated as much.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
I think with Framberg though, is that there's.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
An age component to this, Like he's on the older side,
even for free age. And so there's reluctance there, not
just the Mets, but perhaps some other teams as well
to maybe go to a long term deal on Framber Valdez.
So if the Mets don't end up pulling off a
trade here, I could see them going to Framburgh and saying, look,
you know, we have a short term offer for you.
(03:18):
Not to say that they have one right now, but
just if we go down this path, that's something I
can see them doing and saying, hey, this is what
we could do, A high annual average value for you,
maybe even like you could opt out, maybe do something creative.
I could see those types of things being part of
some things that are in play for the Mets and pitching.
So yeah, I would say that there is a connection there.
It's just not as developed quite yet as I understand it.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I know you mentioned the trade market. Right now, we've
got rumors going around about Edward Cabrera possibly being trade
to the Cubs waiting for those deals to finalize. Were
the Mets involved at all? We saw the Yankees were
not particularly close. Were the Mets even involved.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
Well, we did hear that the Yankees were in the
mix for at the very least. I think it could
be not exactly semantics, but it kind of varies as
far as what the person, which person you're talking to
in like their definition of maybe close and that kind
of thing, which is probably not worth getting into.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
But yeah, I think that the Mets they should have
been involved.
Speaker 5 (04:15):
I don't know to what extent that they actually were,
because again, this is somebody that's going to probably we
don't know exactly what the Cubs are paying for this
in terms of prospect capital or however else, but it
should cost them a good amount because Cabrera is on
the cusp of I feel like at least really breaking
out if he hasn't already. I thought he had a
good season last year, but there were still some ups
and downs to it. And I think that the Miami
(04:37):
Marlins do not get enough credit for the way that
they're developing their pictures. Lately, they've been doing a really
good job of that. So he's somebody that's really on
the cusp of it. And for me, as far as
the Mets go, I don't know this definitively, but I
would look at it as it's a high price to
pay when you don't have that much in the form
of reliability within your rotation already, and again I'll to
(04:59):
say that isn't reliable. It's shows he's got some injury
history and he's yet to kind of put it all
together for like, say, thirty two starts, and at least
for that for one season, let alone do it consecutive,
consecutively and demonstrate that he could be somebody that does
that for the rest of the rest of the time
that you have him.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Yeah, just to give people a sense of Edward Cabrera's career,
this was the first time he'd crossed one hundred inning
plateau and he still only got to one hundred and
thirty seven and missed him Simeon with injury well hitting
new heights he hasn't hit yet in his career. With
the Mets being involved in some of these trade discussions,
will do you ever get a sense of the types
of prospects the Mets are willing to part with, the
types are definitely not willing to part with. We think
(05:38):
at this point it seems fairly certain of course not
Nolan McClane, er Carson Bench, but also probably not Joonahtong,
but was there as the mid tier of the Mets
system grows stronger and stronger. Is there any kind of
way you think the Mets types of guys they would
part ways with.
Speaker 5 (05:53):
Yeah, I think that they're open to different things that
like the guys that you mentioned are probably close to
off limits, if not pretty much off limits.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Especially McLain.
Speaker 5 (06:03):
I think that he's in a bracket on his own actually,
and then it's the everybody else and you can kind
of go with a different bracket for maybe Bench and Tong,
But I just feel like McLain is like alone in
a class of his own, so roughly so, but yeah,
I think that they could that they're probably open to
different thing It depends on who was out there or
who they've had discussions on. For instance, like a a
(06:26):
Joe Ryan type, who I guess isn't as out there
as maybe he people thought he would be at the
beginning of the off season. For him you would have
had to pay a huge price for. And so it's
a different conversation with for somebody like him than you're
having with say somebody like a Brady Singer from the
Cincinnati Reads of course, right obviously.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
So yeah, I think that they're that it kind of
depends on that.
Speaker 5 (06:46):
And the way that I've put it is like they
they've been pretty open and probably a bit stingy though
on you know, who they are willing to give up
otherwise like there would have been a trade already probably right, yeah, yeah,
So like we could kind of deduce that they've been
valuing their prospects pretty highly, and that's probably fine because look,
(07:11):
they have one of the best classes in baseball, so
like clearly, like those guys.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Are supposed to be pretty talented.
Speaker 5 (07:16):
So I don't want to say that like they're doing
it and it's like, Okay, this is crazy and it's misplaced.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
There's probably something.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
There's probably something to like being careful about it. That said,
I think that they're reaching a point, whether it's this
week or next week, it's going to be pretty soon
where they have to really decide, like are we going
to make this kind of move or are we better
suited for somebody like a framdburg.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Valdez or a Ranger Suarez or somebody like that.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
And that's even saying that, like maybe you can't even
get those guys on a short term contract, like I
suggested that would be the approach, but maybe their markets
get better.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Than that, so as other teams that make those decisions.
Speaker 5 (07:53):
But I feel like these next two weeks, even maybe
just this week, it's a critical for a decision making
for the Mets in terms of the prospects that they're
willing to give up and which pitchers that they want
to acquire, because after that group of like BENJ McClain,
I think you have a group of like Check Williams.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
There's some other guys go down the list.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
That they probably should consider dealing in addition to those
infielders who are already on the major league part of
the major league group, like a Ronnie Mauricio Luis Anhilocunya,
those guys who are no longer prospects who are trade candidates.
Obviously Mark Fientos is part of that group as well,
who they would probably be open on moving.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Or listening to as far as offers go.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
So yeah, that's kind of the group, and from where
it goes, who knows, But they definitely have to make
a decision on that sooner rather than later.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
If you were to ask Mets fans, I feel like
most of them are saying how badly this team needs
started pitching help We've talked about it too, that the
outfield is very incomplete for this team right now. Don't
have a center fielder, don't have a left fielder. We
hope Carson benj can fill in at some point, but
as you put in your article on the Athletic, the
Mets don't necessarily want him to have to be the guy.
They want him to earn that position, they want him
(09:03):
to grow into it. Do the Mets seem more interested
in finding guys to fill outfield or starting pitching right now?
Speaker 5 (09:09):
In your opinion, My impression was the rotation was the
seemingly like the priority, like the trade market and just
exploring that for right now though you could only do
multiple things at the same time, And also like it's
still pretty high up there in their list of things
to do, Like they know that they need at least
a left fielder, right Like, that's wide open and you
(09:30):
just traded not just but you traded Jack McNeil fairly
recently and made the decision that he is not going
to be your left fielder, so that's wide open as possible.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
And then in center I feel like you mentioned like
with Benj like.
Speaker 5 (09:42):
Sure like in theory, I think the question that was
asked me in that article that you reference was like,
how much faith does David Stearns has?
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Yeah, yeah, some faith in him.
Speaker 5 (09:50):
I mean the guy's supposed to be pretty good, so yeah, Like,
but that doesn't mean that they're going to hand him
the job. Like, this guy has not really proven capable
of triple A quite yet. I mean capable is probably
the wrong way to put it, but like, he hasn't performed,
and he hasn't mastered that level yet. And he hasn't
he hadn't been there that long, and when he was,
(10:12):
it was at the end of the season and the
numbers weren't that good. So he's got some proving to do.
So it's gonna be a big spring training for him.
But I think that the Mets are probably best suited
getting two outfielders and somebody preferably who could handle center field.
I think that's probably a little bit more important than
people are giving or making it out to be, actually,
because it was a problem last year and it never
got solved, and now you added to that with that
(10:36):
gaping hole in the left field, so there's plenty of
work to do in that lineup. I'd also say that
depending on who those outfielders or outfielder is that you
are that.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
You are acquiring.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
You need some right handed help out as well, and
I think that could come in the form of maybe
somebody who is a bad first guy who could DH
a little bit be part of that mix.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
But they need some thump behind.
Speaker 5 (10:58):
Juan Soto and those other, you know, first two or
three guys in that lineup, because you no longer have
Pete Alonso doing that.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
So that to me is definitely high on the priority list.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
Funny enough, the outfielders that seem to be available the
Mets have at least been mildly connected to being Kyle
Tucker at the top, Cody Bellinger in the middle, than
large new Bark.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Kind of more is the budget options.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Those are all left handed bats, so it is kind
of getting more difficult to see how the Mets find
that right handed power bet. But Tucker's the name that
flies around a lot. There's been some reports, especially out
of North Bendix and Smith, that Toronto thinks the Mets
are more of a player for that. I know in
the articles with you and Ken, you've still kind of
pushed that it's more likely to be the Dodgers in
the Blue Jays, has there been contact made? And also
(11:43):
how long do you think the Mets would actually be
willing to go from what you've heard in the deal
for Kyle Tucker.
Speaker 5 (11:48):
Yeah, so I think Jim Ducat actually a former long
time executive who networks serious this mess and why stuff
as well, he put out a tweet out or a
post saying that the Mets, the Dodgers, and the Blue
Jays were three of the most aggressive teams and those
those are contenders for Kylin Tucker. I don't know if
it's limited to that group, but those are among the
teams that are options for him.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
As far as the Mets go.
Speaker 5 (12:12):
I've been pretty consistent about this throughout the off season
of saying that like Bellinger, Kyle Tucker, those guys are
options for the Mets.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
But I don't see.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
Them giving either of those players like a long term deal.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
I think that it's more of a short.
Speaker 5 (12:27):
Term thing, where like if their markets are if those
guys are not getting those big numbers that they expected
or that people expected for them at the beginning of
the off season, Klin Tucker, for instance, like three hundred
million forms like for like if they're not getting those numbers,
then I think like a three year deal or with
like opt outs or something creative like that could be
the Mets play. I don't know if really his market
(12:49):
has materialized enough yet or developed enough yet for it
to even get to that point where like those types of.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Offers have been extended or not.
Speaker 5 (12:57):
I wouldn't be surprised if it's still too early for that,
but I would expect that to be probably the Mets play.
There is the three year type of deal and high
annual average value and the pitch of like, hey, you
join Juan Soto and Francisco Lindor and all of a sudden,
like the Mets.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Are a World Series, like a serious world serious.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
Contender, big time, I would argue, because you think that
they're going to add pitching as well of course, So yeah,
I think we kind of get into like whether or
not the Mets are actually good with that with or
without him, that's a different kind of conversation, but certainly
with him they'd be a they'd definitely be boosting their
World Series odds.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
To say the least.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Is there surprise across the industry of how slow the
off season has been over the last couple of weeks or.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
So, there's been frustration.
Speaker 5 (13:47):
Of course, I don't know about expectations go, but it's
been a weird offseason. I think at the forefront of it,
you have a free agent class that wasn't viewed as
all that deep and for a lot of teams, a
lot of these players are not great fits for and
even in say like kle Talker's market, the teams that
(14:07):
we just mentioned there, they're all like big market teams, right,
like those three teams, and like the Yankees were loosely
connected to.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Them for a little while, and whoever else, but like.
Speaker 5 (14:15):
They're all like these big market teams, and so once
like Colleg Schwarber and Pete Alonzo got wrapped up during
the winter meetings. It doesn't really it doesn't surprise me
that like it has lagged just because it was a
class that I've had some executives describe it to me
as mediocre after like those top names.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Like there's just not a whole lot of depth to it.
Speaker 5 (14:37):
So if you look at the list, I understand, like
I understand like it compared to other classes, like where
it ranks. And there's also a bunch of teams that
are in the trade market, and the trade market involves
multiple teams that want to get better and they're not
looking to like mail in the twenty twenty sixth season,
and so that's made it slow because you're not trading
(14:58):
prospects for players, trading like major league talent for major
league talent, and those deals are hard to hard to make.
So it's fun when they line up, but it takes
a lot for that to happen. It's not as I
guess smooth as that prospect hall for like that one
superstar type player, so like we don't have that as much.
And the market overall was kind of strange because you
(15:20):
had more closers and like high leverage relievers who are
of interest this year, and usually that's something that gets
done like around now and bleeds into February. Even for
the most part, like ninety five percent of the high
leverage relievers are all scooped up already. So it's been
a very strange and very different offseason.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
It's funny today when we're recording this. On January seventh
is the anniversary of the Francisco Indoor a bunch of
prospects for super star trade by the mess which you
kind of wish something like that come up right now.
Also with just the slowness of the winter. It feels
like the one time the Mets have acted with any
sense of urgency, be it relative urgency, was signing Jorge
Polanco after the flurry of Edward Diaz and p Alonzo
(16:02):
left almost a month after that deal. How does that
one look in hindsight again, because it felt like that
happened kind of out of clear blue sky.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
You were the only one who had Polanco connect to.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
The Mets, like twelve hours before that deal was made,
But that was Is it a surprise? That was the
one time the Mets kind of jumped out of the
seat and made something happen.
Speaker 5 (16:18):
Well we know about the Mets, or that we should
know about the Mets is like they're going to be aggressive,
like when they read the market and the market is
telling them like, Okay, the light's gone on, like let's
outbid for this type of player if this is the
guy that we want. And it just so happened that
Jorge Polanco was somebody that they really really liked and
his market was thriving, like he had a pretty solid market,
like he had teams that were interested in him, whether
(16:40):
it was the Mariners or the Pirates or whoever else,
and like he was ready to go, and that's what
you need, Like you need the player who's willing to
be like, Okay, I'm these are the offers I'm getting,
or at least this is the way that teams are
perceiving me.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
So I don't foresee that changing for whatever reason. I'm
ready to go with whatever it gets extended that I
think is the best offer.
Speaker 5 (17:00):
And so the Mets did that, and you know, like
after that, like guys like Ron O'Hearn did get picked up, right,
so like it wasn't that as if it was like
in a vacuum, like they just got plunker like there
were some other there were a couple of guys that
did go afterward, and if he was the one guy
that you were circling in that tier, then it made
(17:21):
sense to go do it. So And frankly, there aren't
a whole lot of guys who are like him in
the market actually, like he doesn't really have that many peers.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I think like O'Hearn is kind of similar.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
They do some different things, but there's some aspects of
versatility to each of those players.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
So I get why they would do it.
Speaker 5 (17:41):
You could quipple with the idea of whether or not
he's going to be a decent first baseman or not.
That remains to be seen, right, Like, we don't know
that they're banking on the athleticism aspect of that, But
as far as just like the overall player and like
liking his offensive profile, I could see like why they
would have swooped.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
In the way that they did with Mauricia and Vientos
and Acunya. They kind of are all fighting for similar
ish spots. Obviously they do different things. And you mentioned
in one of your articles too that these guys could
be on the block. Is that from the Mets wanting
to move these guys or listening to offers more.
Speaker 5 (18:13):
So, well, I think that they're at a place where
they realize there's just not a whole lot of playing
time for these guys after the Marcus Simon acquisition.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
And actually like the way that Brett Batty.
Speaker 5 (18:25):
Performed in the second half or whether it was around
June or whatever, it was, where he picked things up
and became fairly consistent both defensively and offensively, and he
deserves the runway for third days. So if you're looking
at third base being Brett Bady spot right now, second
base being Marcus Simiam. Obviously they're not gonna be playing
(18:46):
short stop for the Mets, and they're not first baseman.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Well, I guess Biento's is.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
But that's really the one decision point, right, Like, that's
where I pause, because it's Viano's is the guy where
they have to make the call on what I referenced
earlier about a right handed bat who could maybe be
a bad first guy. The bar that they have to
clear is like, could Mark Viento's be this guy? And
if this guy whoever it is, is going to offer
(19:14):
more consistency or more of a prove it type of thing,
then they probably have to go get that guy. Because
Mark Vento showed you that there's still some ups and
downs to his game last year unfortunately. So whether or
not like they trade those guys, I'm not sure because
that's the decision again, like they have to make, and
I'm not sure where they're at with it. But we're
(19:35):
also talking about players who are out of options, a
couple of them, right, So, like there's not a whole
lot of things that they could do with these with
a couple of these guys like Mauricio, you could still
start in TRIPLEA.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
They preserve that option there.
Speaker 5 (19:48):
But I go back to Brett Baidy in just the way,
the way that he played in the second half of
last year.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
He just deserves to shot.
Speaker 5 (19:56):
And I'm with the fans who have kind of gone
back and forth with like they all can't be getting
like a third of the playing time, like you got,
you got to give the keys to somebody here, and
Brett Baty deserves them, so I expect them to roll
with him at third base, and therefore they should be
looking for trade partners for the other guys.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
Yeah, it's just a question probably now of how much
of those guys can be worth in a trade, especially,
I mean, you got like Mauricio is the one that's
always I always find interesting because it feels he has
really played baseball in three years, Like the way the
Mets manipulated his option last year, he kind of lost
a full year after missing a full year after missing
most of the year, and you wish that happens also to.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
The right handed first base point.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
It felt like that bar of Mark Fiento's is something
the Mets didn't see someone like Kazumo Kamoto, clearing as
right handed first base option who signed a bit of
a larger deal than expect at least committed years wise
with the Blue Jays over the weekend. And then similarly,
tatsuim the starting pitcher coming from the NPB, signed a
much smaller deal than a lot of people expected, basically
(20:56):
a one year, twenty one million dollar proved deal with
the Astros. The Mets involved in negotiations with these two
guys at all, they mostly kind of stay out of them.
Speaker 5 (21:05):
Yeah, negotiations not not that I know of. For those,
I'm not even sure like what their levels of moderate
interest in was.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Frankly with im, you know, they're not alone there.
Speaker 5 (21:17):
Like there were a bunch of teams that looked at
his profile and said, okay, we have questions about how
his fastball is going to play, even though he throws hard, Like,
is that going to be a pitch that he has
to throw a lot and maybe hitters wise up to it,
And all of a sudden, he's only given us three
four or five innings max. And I think that's reflected
(21:39):
in the contract that he signed, because like, not only
was it a short term deal, but like the incentives
the player bonuses kick in at eighty innings for him,
which is a fairly low number for a starting pitcher,
like usually we see those over one hundred, maybe one twenty,
like that kind of thing. For it to be at
eighty kind of tells you, like people have some questions
about this, and so I don't I get it. But again,
(22:01):
like going back to the context surrounding Edward Carrera, it's
hard for me to see the Mets bring in an
unknown like that, even though he does have that potential
when you have other guys who are unknowns in your
rotation already, and like you desperately need some reliability, So
I get the one with you my completely, actually, even
though I think that there's a decent chance that he
does fairly well, especially his first year here. We've seen
(22:24):
that with other pictures from Japan, particularly with Minaga with
the Cubs who had done well early on, and some
others as well. But Okamoda is the guy who actually
thought they could have had some more interest in, or
should have had some more interest in, just because it's
on paper a decent fit.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
But again, like they weren't alone.
Speaker 5 (22:42):
With like maybe being a little bit lukewarm about it
at best. His market was fairly good from what I understand,
Like he had some teams and that part of it
was reflected like he's got what was a four year deal,
So that's pretty good for a guy coming.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Yeah, so but the teams has some questions about his defense.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
I know, like a lot of people are quick to say, like, Okay,
he's better than mir or COMI like, okay, sure, but
like how good is he though? Like like that should
not be the bar the bar that everybody's trying to
clear here, like to compare, Yeah, if you want to
compare the two players, like, yeah, he's the better defender,
but like, do we think that he's going to be
a good defender? Some team said no. So, like that's
(23:24):
the feedback that I got from clubs around the league.
Was like when I asked, like, well, why why wouldn't
a team be in on him?
Speaker 3 (23:31):
That was like the one thing that kind of came up.
Speaker 5 (23:33):
But you know, we started the conversation by talking about
a bad first profile, right, So like yeah, that's why
I say, like, Okay, he's the one guy who I'm
like very curious about how he performs and that I'll
be monitoring, and he's like a guy that you could
look back on in a couple of months and be like,
should they have done this or not?
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Do you think that the Mets are inclined to trade
any of their pitchers? I know we need pitching, but
the fact that there is and this is like the
worst thing you could ever say. There's so many starting
pitchers in this organization right now, Like what's the feel
on maybe not even moving like a prospect, maybe somebody
who's in the rotation already right now.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
I could see it.
Speaker 5 (24:08):
Yeah, they've gotten calls on that for sure, Like David
Peterson is somebody that they've gotten calls on. Sangle Obviously
we've reported and talked about that here even so yeah,
I could see it, especially because like if you're talking
about like even adding like more than one, you get
to a point with the Mets where like you have
to subtract then like if we're going to add two,
you have to subtract somebody because there just aren't enough spots.
(24:29):
Because I actually, and this is reflected in like fangraps
is like war projections, and like betting odds, the over
under on the Mets this year, like it' is at
like what eighty six or something like that, six and
a half, and the fangraps war is putting them at
like fifth place right now, like you know, number five
in the ranking. So it's better than like what people
give them credit for. But the rotation itself kind of
(24:50):
lacks that number down. But I will say that, like
from the Mets perspective, there's some upside in the idea
of like, Okay, we're gonna get a second season out
of Clay Holmes as a starting pitcher. We think that
Manaia is healthy. Now, really there's only up for quote
I sega, right, that's the only direction you can go
at this point, and they're looking at a full season
of Nolan McLain. So you kind of talk yourself into like, okay,
(25:13):
like this may not be like a sky's falling type
of thing. And even so, like you have I just
named a few guys like you have a rotation in place.
It's just a matter of like getting somebody else to
sort of be that anchor to it in addition to
Nolan McLain, because Manaia is that question mark right now.
So yeah, I think that like you could see it,
it would be more of a question. I think like
(25:34):
once they add somebody, because then that really forces them
to look at their rotation and say who's in and
who's out, and something that will get decided in the spring.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Training as well.
Speaker 5 (25:44):
Like I wouldn't be surprised if like this bleeds, especially
concidering how slow this officerason has been. Like it may
be one of those things where like just because the
calendar says spring training has started, it doesn't necessarily mean
the off season has ended.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Like as far as like moves.
Speaker 5 (25:57):
Go, they'll see like a whole lot of like, yeah,
it can be pretty dreadful in that sense where like
we're kind of like mentally ready for it to be over,
but like there's still so much left unresolved that we
could see a lot of teams still be making moves
and making making deals even uh laid into late into
the days of the off season early into spring spring training.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
With that pitching depth of mets do do do truly have?
While it's a lot of like you know, kind of
four is five, some six is maybe halful of threes
at the moment, Plus McLain, we have seen the last
few years that attrition sometimes is the thing that knocks
teams down the most. The way the Mets season kind
of went off the rails last year is the fact
a lot of these guys got hurt at the same
time and they didn't necessarily have the six, seven, eight
(26:38):
guys ready to go and step in. With that being said,
and the way the reliever market has dried up, this
is still a very incomplete bullpen. I'm gonna pull some
questions from the Met Stuff discord, which link will be
in description of this show down below, So shout out
Mets believe it and KU's besides guys like Michael Kopec's
Ranthy Domingez, Like, do we really finally see maybe guys
like sprot and Tongue into this bullpen by mid season
(27:01):
to kind of get their feet more wet and major league.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Guy or even past them?
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Is someone like Zach Thornton or possibly even Will Watson's
going to get Triple A reps this year? Are any
of these guys that either just debuted last year besides
McLean or yet to debut in position to possibly pitch
and relief if the rotation depth holds up?
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Four part question.
Speaker 5 (27:20):
There, Yeah, I'll try to knock out here hopefully, But
Sprot's a guy that comes to mind as somebody capable
of doing that. And like David Sartins has done that
in the past with the Milwaukee Brewers. And I know
people shudder when I say Brewers because it's like they
don't want to do the things.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
That the Brewers do.
Speaker 5 (27:37):
But word, yeah, but like he had success with this
and like and by what I mean by that is
like Brendan Woodrup did it, Freddy Parulta did it, Corbyn
Burns did it. There were other guys as well, where
you break in the pitcher and he's a multi inning
type of guy for you, who's going two three innings
out of the bullpen and bridging that gap, and like,
(27:59):
look like the Met's gonna use somebody like that. Actually,
last year they could used a lot of things last year.
Maybe if their pictures through more than five innings that
that wouldn't be a needy either. But you know, you
digress there, and yeah, looking ahead with their bullpen, sure
that could be a spot for them out of spring training.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
I'm I'm not sure if like that's the decision right now.
Speaker 5 (28:20):
I think there's still some things left to be unresolved
there as far as like who they're trading from their
rotation and what people that they bring into their rotation.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
But it could flow that way where.
Speaker 5 (28:30):
Like a spot is given to somebody like a Sproute
who has shown that he could pitch in the major
leagues a little bit and probably has mastered Triple A
at this point.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
So yeah, that that could be a thing.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
But I still argue that they need some like guys
who are like high leverage guys though beyond that, because
right now you have Weaver and getting ball to Devin Williams, Like,
I don't know, I feel like there's there's room for
another ad there for sure.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Is there anything funny about how the Mets have just
casually been signing Yankey's players left and right, Like obviously,
like the Mets fans, that drives them absolutely insane, But like,
is there something too that or like James even mentioned
it before on the podcast that like probably for some
of these guys like I like New York and I
can play for the Mets, like that's another great fit.
Speaker 5 (29:16):
Well, it's not easy to play here either though, So
like when you look at it from like the team perspective,
it's like you already know that they've done it before here,
and so I think that does that is part of it.
Like it has to be part of the calculus there
to see and look. And it's a question that doesn't
have to be asked right like, and in every other
conversation that you're having with a free agent, that comes
(29:36):
across your mind as to how is he going to
perform in this market?
Speaker 3 (29:40):
And people will say, well, Devin Williams wasn't good in
this market.
Speaker 5 (29:43):
Well, I'd actually pushed back on that and say that
he was actually pretty good in this market because he
had the experience of being awful at and actually overcoming
that and being pretty damn good. And so like I
give the guy a lot of credit for that, and
the idea that he actually chose to come back yeah,
New York after that, I think a lot about him.
So like, yeah, that's part of that. I think it's funny, yes,
(30:07):
but like there's also like when you look back and
analyze it, it makes all the sense in the world
to me because it's a question that gets answered right away.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
Yeah it Sarn's mentioned that in the now infamous postseason
press conference about not maybe not adhering enough to that
with guys like Hellsy and Mullins not really anticipating possible.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Struggles with the market enough.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
But will I got one more funny questions you for
you from the discord again, Thanksgi for coming on. You've
been probably one of the busiest men in baseball media
this offseason, so you're finding the time.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
We and all the listeners appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
But when you're kind of taking in rumors to compile
one of these articles or some media availability, like you're
giving us right now, how do you kind of parse
through what could be real, what could be fake?
Speaker 2 (30:48):
What's your method of corroboration?
Speaker 4 (30:49):
Like how is it kind of like national intelligence where
you hear a million things a day then you have
to kind of decide what can be real and which
ones do you have to chase?
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Just give us a sense of that process for you.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Speaker 5 (31:01):
It's a hard one to answer without like giving away
like who I talk to ye, But yeah, it's tricky because,
like you, there is an element of I think wanting
to first share something that's new and revealing and helps.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Shed some light on a topic.
Speaker 5 (31:22):
But like I take a lot of pride in like
being very careful about it as well, like I want
people to know that, like, if it's coming from me,
it's not just because somebody decided to message me and
I'm running with it.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
Like it's been.
Speaker 5 (31:35):
Vetted, it's been to the best of my ability, uh,
something that I feel.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Good about being true.
Speaker 5 (31:43):
Right, Like a lot of this stuff, there's some agendas,
there's some I don't know, like there's reasons why people
are sharing this information for you, right that like you
have to mentally sort it through and double check. But
I think that's part of the job. And I think
not to go like too much into the weeds on this.
But like with baseball media and sports media, sometimes like
(32:05):
with like the transactions and like that type of news,
we lose the idea that this is supposed to be
like journalism, like this is supposed to be like a
journalistic integrity to it. That like we should like not
just care about the amount of like retweets and likes
we're getting out of a transaction post and actually make
sure that like no, like this interest is actually real.
(32:26):
And not only that, but here are the consequences to
the move. Here's what's at stake. Here's like the viewpoint
from like both sides A bit as to why it
may or may not happen. I think those things are important,
and like, those are the things that I try to
go after in my reporting because I feel like there's
some value to that, especially for people who are reading
it to better understand like the club that they root for,
(32:48):
as to like okay, like why are they taking this approach?
Why weren't they doing this or why are they doing that?
And to me, that's just it's more interesting and it's
more rewarding frankly than chasing, Like Okay, Joe Reliever has
six teams interested in him.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
And there's definitely a place for that type of thing.
Speaker 5 (33:07):
And like I'm not I do the same thing if right,
Like you've referenced an article this.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Morning that came out. It had a line like that
for somebody.
Speaker 5 (33:14):
So like I'm not saying anything out of turn or
against anybody else, but like I just love when I'm
able to go a step further with things.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
And the only way to do that is.
Speaker 5 (33:23):
To make sure that the reporting is strong, so that
to me is of high priority all the time.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Yeah, I mean, I don't think we can speak for
all Mets fans, but I think we all appreciate what
you do and it's nice in a world where, like
you said, sometimes there could be alter your motives that
we just we get good journalistic stuff from you, so
will thank you so much again. Let the people know
where they can find all your work. And thanks for
coming on mets up again.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Yeah, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Guys.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Always going to chat with you.
Speaker 5 (33:48):
We'll always have some stuff on the mets on the
Athletic dot com as well as natural reporting like your
reference with Ken Rosenthal and I'm on x at Will
Salmon and most other social media accounts as well is
the same.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Awesome. That's it, guys. Thank you us so much for watching.
Make sure subscribe to mets up on YouTube. If you're
listening to us, Apple podcast, Spotify, Google drops the RNE
drops a review, download and subscribe. We'll catch you all
in the next one.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
Peace out peace houck guys, thanks again, well that sa
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The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Two Guys, Five Rings: Matt, Bowen & The Olympics
Two Guys (Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers). Five Rings (you know, from the Olympics logo). One essential podcast for the 2026 Milan-Cortina Winter Olympics. Bowen Yang (SNL, Wicked) and Matt Rogers (Palm Royale, No Good Deed) of Las Culturistas are back for a second season of Two Guys, Five Rings, a collaboration with NBC Sports and iHeartRadio. In this 15-episode event, Bowen and Matt discuss the top storylines, obsess over Italian culture, and find out what really goes on in the Olympic Village.