December 9, 2025 • 38 mins
The Winter Meetings started on Sunday and tons of crazy Mets rumors are flying around. We're linked to Kyle Schwarber, Pete Alonso is taking meetings with other teams, Michael King is a target, Edwin Díaz's market is relatively quiet, a lot is going on. We're going to talk through all of it.
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0:00 - What's Up Mets Fans
0:54 - Pete Alonso vs Kyle Schwarber
16:17 - Not Interest in Top Starting Pitchers?
24:47 - Brewers Rumors
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
The Winter Meetings have started and there are rumors swirling.
We got David Stearns talking to the media, We've got comments,
we got links to Kyle Schwarber. It seems like a
lot of things could be happening in the next few hours.
In the time that we record this to the time
that you guys see this in the morning, there might
be a lot changing and we want to talk about
every possible thing that we've learned from the first twenty
(00:32):
four ish hours of the Winter Meeting so far.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
There's a lot to go over before we do. Make
sure you are subscribed.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
To the Mets Up podcast YouTube channel. Click that's ub
button joined the team. And also big shout out to
our merch Lincoln description if you're trying to buy any
Mets up merch for Christmas, whatever holidays you celebrate, Mets
up Merch Lincoln description as well. All right, James, where
do we want to start this one off? I mean,
I feel like the Alonso Schwarber talk is.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
What's the talk of the town.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
I think so too, and I think it should be
because there's probably an understanding among the Mets organization and
among you guys watching this, Mets fans everywhere that he
signed swar Bro.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
I don't think you're signed pe Alonzo.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
This is a feels unlikely.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
This seems like a one or the other situation, and
just a case where Schwarber's mark is starting to move
fast and Pete's going slow. So like, let's let's see
if we can get a number we want for the
first guy and then get to the second guy if
the time comes.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
It does seem unlikely, but also maybe not. I mean
Stern's Sterns did say something that makes you believe that
while they might be more in on Shoreber right now,
because Schwarber's market seems to be happening very fast, and
it seems like there's a good chance Kyle Schwarber is
signed by some team by the end of these winter meetings,
that that doesn't take them out of Pete though.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
No, I don't think it does for sure, but I
think it does a lot unless they get Pete for
like a perfect number down the line and they get
Sharpared for a number they want right now. But there
were some interesting soundbites from David Searns and he did
his media availability with Steve Gelps specifically, it was like
a five minute SMI put on Twitter. But the Pete
conversation in part of that was really interesting where he
said specifically, Pete's calling cardis his bat, and he could
(01:59):
fit on this.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Team and multiple ways.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
We can get his bat in the line up, multiple ways,
but it won't take us out of pursuits that maybe
more timely as Pete's market develops. So that's him telling
us this Kysh Warper thing is happening now. The Pee
Linzo thing is not happening now. And that's as simply
as it can be put.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah, because at the end of the day, we know
that Pete is probably best best suit on this team
at DH. We also heard that Wan Soda is not
going to be dhing. He doesn't like dhing, and that's fine.
He was completely acceptable in right field the last three
months of the year at times like he was like
negative to OAA, which when you hit like Wan Soda, I.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Really don't care, doesn't matter to me at all.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
But Pete was, for lack of a better term, dog
water at first base last year. Defensively, he goes, he's
too aggressive, he can't make any throws. He's fantastic at scoops,
but we know that that's only gonna last for so long.
So for Pete truthfully to fit back on this team,
I think the Mets have made it very clear they
want him to be more of a DH that can
play first base rather than the first baseman who will DH.
(02:56):
Kyle Schrebro, on the other hand, is only a DH.
He will not touch the field, and that's why it
is interesting that the Mets could be pushing so hard
for a bona fide This is just a DH.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
But that's why I open this being like, I don't
think there's any way they fit both of these guys
on the roster unless they weirdly feel marginally confident with
college Schwarber back in left field for like fifty games
a year, I which you say that would be shocking.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
That would be shocking because he can't do that. But like,
it seems like everyone is interested in colleg Swarber right now.
Apparently the Pirates offered a record breaking franchise deal, which
is not what it sounds like. The Pirates' biggest free
agent contract they ever gave out. I just had a
mini bumbling. Biggest free agent contract they ever gave out
was to Francisco Leariano over a decade ago.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
At three years thirty nine million.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
So for the Pirates to say record breaking is very like,
you know, the greatest Sault type thing.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
But teams are interested in Shorber.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
He fits on every roster except the Los Angeles Dodgers
basically and the Yankees. Like every team I think is
trying to get Kyle Schwarber. I'm interested to see what
his contract will look like if he is with the Mets.
I can't imagine it's going to be more than three
maybe four years at most.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
But maybe that's the decision they're making and why they're
prioritizing at this exact moment Kylee Schwarber instead of pi Alonzo,
because if Pete is holding steadfast four or five years,
but you think you can get Schwarbur for three, maybe
they just think that the next three years like Schwarber,
might be better hither than Pete for the next three
years like Schwarber. It could be possibly Schwarber has higher
(04:27):
bats bean pe Alonzo. He chases way fewer pitchers out
of structions than Pilonzo. He also makes less consistent contact.
The last four years of Kylee Schwarber when you look
at them through the objective lens are less consistent than
you probably remember because of how high the heights Scott.
But two years ago Kyles Swarber was under the Mendoza
line he and he only had three forty on base percentage,
which is where Pete was this past year.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Like he's had some.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Ops's that have oscillated between you know, eight twenty and
eight fifty before this past year having the best season
of his career at thirty two years old.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Like there's in Philly.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
In Philly, Yeah, there's definitely there's definitely a fun conversation
going going on about would you rather, let's say, have
Kyle Schwarber for three years than Pelonzo for four or
five years? Right now inside those Mets rooms, is it crazy?
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Is it crazy? If I say, I think they I'd
much rather take Pete much? Why much? One? He's our
guy like that, a little bit of fandom in there,
just being like I like Pete, like I want him
to be on the Mets, and Kyle Schwarber's a Philly
like go to Boston, Kyle Schwarber, That's fine, let us
have Pete. I want Pete back. But also at the
same time, like you mentioned, the the swings that Swore
(05:30):
Schwarber's had. Offensively, It's like, if we get that one
ninety Schwarber that has like a three thirty on base,
this becomes a disaster, sure, but also there probably is
at this end, especially if you don't get Pete.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yes, if you don't get Peep, I don't. I don't
think exa any chance you get both. I think there's
a zero why not from prevention run prevention, run prevention.
We're trying to we're trying to translate what they're trying
to do right here. I want to play the fantasy
games too, but this is what the reality is.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
It's but at the end of day, Pete, if he's
on this team, it's still gonna be playing first base,
probably one hundred of one hundred and sixty games he
plays in the season.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
So it's like possibly, And honestly, I'm really starting to
think maybe not. And that's another reason why first you
might I think we're just gonna get an out of
the clear blue sky of Ryan O'Hearn two for forty
one day.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
I really think that.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
And then Pete plays first basement left handed pitchers on
the mount I think that's going to wind up happening.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
That would make me a little upset.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
But I think if you get I think that Pizer,
DH's still one of the best h's in the league.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Sure well yeah, I mean I'm not disagreeing with that.
I still obviously is a great hitter and would bring
value as DH only totally now in the fantasy world.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
If Ryan orharn just plays first base against the righties, like,
he's probably gonna sneak near an eight hundred ops.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yeah, which he kind of did this year.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
So I think I think there is a world where
that's the case there.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
But the Schwarbur things interesting because if you can get
him for that many fewer years, if that tips their
scales that much, that must be why they're so interested.
These rumors have been percolating for like twenty four hours now.
The Mets are apparently incredibly interesting College Warbur. And again
like two years ago, when College s Warber that average
drops in the one nineties, he only in eight seventeen ops. Like,
that's that's not the elite hitter that might warrant you know,
(07:03):
a thirty for the AAV deal. If you want to
get College Warber in a short deal, you probably have
to push aav.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Up that high.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
So it's me, I don't even know. I don't even
know if I do that, truthfully.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
That's what I'm kind of leaning towards. Is Listen, I'm
not gonna be upset if we get college. Absolutely not.
I'm not gonna be like, I can't believe we did this.
I again, I made it very clear, I still want
Pete over Kyle Schwarber. I think Pete will be a
better hitter the next couple of seasons. I think that
Schwarber's just got a lot of ups and downs. The
highs are gonna be the fifty home runs that we saw.
The lows are gonna be kind of what Pete did
(07:33):
in his low year. Like So that's kind of the
conversation I have here, and I'll just I'll take the
guy who's been in New York for a while. I
don't know. I also, I still, weirdly just don't see
Schwarber signing with the Mets. I see the Philly swooping
in and just like if the Mets came in at
like three for ninety, let's just say that was it
feels like three for ninety one and he just goes.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
I do wonder, though, I think that Schwarber has funny
enough proven that he could age better than Pete, just
because the bats beed is starting out higher. Like he's
thirty two now, we haven't had any negative effects of
aging yet. He pulls all of his fly balls, where
Pete pulls just a bunch of them. Pete has such
good opposite field power. He gets out there like Schwarber
less so than Pete, doesn't rely as much on bat
to ball. But Shwarbar also if he loses the bat
(08:12):
to ball, he's already one of the worst in the
leagues and get like where Pete also like. It just
makes a lot more contact, a lot more contact. It's
two very funny profiles to compare like. It genuinely is like,
I don't even think we've ever been making this comparison,
but it's it's crazy because are both free agents at
the same time, these spots in their careers.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
I also, I want to ask you this, is there
a fear for this Mets team that had so much
trouble putting the ball in play last year when it
mattered most to get another guy on this team that
is a low average guy probably honestly, but I don't
think that.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Maybe we could be concerned about that, But again, it
doesn't seem like they're concerned about that because we saw
the downside of the college Schwarber approach. This is an
irrelevant situation, but it's worth the narrative stuff right here.
When you get into a playoff series and all of
a sudden.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
You just can't touch a ball, like that's it against
the Mets except against code Ice Aga.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Know what I'm saying, It's like two years in a row.
Colle Swarber has a non effect in the playoffs. He's
also a great playoff performer before that in his career,
and I'm sure he'll get here to be a great
player performer after this.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
He was like the only member of the twenty fifteen
Cubs that showed up against the Mets in the NFCS.
He hit like a home run in every game.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Sneaky.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
And also I think that was when he was off
the tour in acl That happened that April, if I
remember that correctly.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
That was his rookie year.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
So yeah, okay, maybe this next year to maybe toward that.
I don't remember exactly the timeline ten years back about
college Forarber, but like similar to time we've had how
we've had these conversations about Cody Bellinger, coyleegeh Orber was
non tender five years ago.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
It was by the cheap Cubs.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
But yeah, it was by the very stupid cheap Cubs
don't like spending their money. But it's I don't think
college Forber is as Locke, solid guaranteed like MVP candidate
fifty home run guy like we saw this year, and
also not saying that Pete is going to be we
just saw this year for the next three years either.
But if if it's one year difference and he's two
years older and the AAV is significantly more for sh Warber, like,
(09:51):
I can definitely see how that's an absolute toss up.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
This just me seems like a timing thing. It does
seem like a timing thing. It seems like a fear
of missing out. We also know that Pete's meeting with
other teams. Maybe this is just a little I mean,
David Surns, I think he's playing big games here. So like,
I think there could also be a little bit of like,
for lack of a better term, like just trying to
fuck with Pete a little bit.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
The way that was reported, it seemed to me like
the opposite, because all the shorbur med stuff started trickling
out around Sunday night and like really get kind of
getting hot Monday morning, and then all of a sudden,
like Monday late morning, early afternoon, now Pete's driving from
Tampa to the way they're meeting the teams.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
That's why I'm like, I think Sterns just fucking with
them a little bit, like maybe it fuck with us.
And then the problem is gonna be that Pete's gonna
meet with the Orioles, and he's gonna go meet with
the Red Sox, and they're gonna be like, hey, so
especially like for the Red Sox are number one targets
Alex Bregman, We're not giving you the money that you want.
And then he's gonna meet with the Orioles, who don't
spend any money.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
And it seems like the Oriols targets really shorbur They've
been the team like most heavily Lincoln. It makes way
more sense as a lefty, it would make way more
sense for them to spend the money on Shwarbur than Pete.
It's it's almost like Pete's like kind of the second
option because of the kind of contract that he's demanding
right now. And I feel like, I mean, I do
genuinely believe the Mets want Kyle Schwarber. I don't think
(11:02):
that it's a you know, a fake rumored by any means,
especially because Stern just talking about it.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
But it does feel like this is a little cat
and mouse game again with Pete Alonzo, like, yeah, go
talk to everybody. We're gonna be going after kyleeg Schwarber.
You can go see all the offers you're gonna get,
realize you're not getting what you want, and you're gonna
come back.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Sterns was very careful not to talk about these things specifically,
because he never talks about these things specifically. His two
media availabilities again we're good the one the five minute
with Gelb's and then the uh there was like a
twenty minute that got put on YouTube. I remember if
the s and y, the Mets just starts talking to
all the reporters. But it does seem like if if
these roles were reversed, if Pete's market was hot right
now and Schwarber's one that was slow, we'd be making
these big offers Pete. I just think it's you don't
(11:41):
want to let Schwarber sign on another team and not
even make an offer on him. Sure, yeah, And I
do ultimately think that's just what it's gonna be, is
that the Mets are gonna be almost making you bid
up to get Schwarbur in a way, and for college
Schwarber that's great too, and possibly just again to get
a little more leverage on Pete, Like, it does suck
that we've gone two straight off seasons the same thing's happening.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Also, nightmare scenario.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
What if we signed Schwarbur and the Phillies are like, well,
we're gonna go get Pete like that, that's the night
that's a nightmare. I just let's just have the same
guys we had.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
I don't want to trade those guys.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Maybe that's the only way we could possibly get both
of them at the same time. As a Philly start
going hot after.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
It's like, God, that's that is a nightmare for me.
Seeing Peter Lomso playing for the Phillies would truthfully be
heartbreaking because let's butterfly affect this out right now, if
the Phillies were to actually lose Kyle Schwarber, if he
were to somehow sign with the Mets or the Orioles
or the Reds or a mystery team, the Pirates, Like
we're not talking about Yeah, Scott, throw them in that.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
I want KYLEE Swarper, I want them in Pittsburgh. They
made a four year offer. Then the Phillies all kind
of have their backs up against the wall. They kind
of do just have to do the splashiest thing they
can do, because we know that's also what Tom Browski
will do. Anyway, besides them getting like unbelievably creative on
the trade market, they don't have many direct ways to
improve that team without Kyle Tucker. Yeah, that's seriously adding
to their payroll. Like it doesn't seem like they want
(12:52):
to do that badly with two ten year commitments on
their books already. Like, I don't know, I can't. They're
the one team I can't figure out so far this offseason.
We'll have any idea what they're.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Thinking or doing. No, the only thing that we've heard
was they weren't close with Schwarber, but now they're close
on his tail.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
For signing him.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
It's not happening. Probably still the favorites that sign him
at the end of the day. They're a bizarre team.
That's why I don't I just just take your boy back,
let us get Pete and shake hands and we're good.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
That's what I want. I don't want this.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
The market is telling us too that they view they
value Schworber a lot more than Pete Alnzo Like that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Well, I mean it is.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
It's just because Pete might be getting these offers that
Schwarber is getting and he's like, h seven years because
he's a big dumb idiot, like where you're not gonna
get that Pete.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Ever, it's never happening.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
These two also might weirdly end up with like an
incredibly similar contract, like I bet, Like, let's just say
the Mets are offering Schwarbur like a three for one
hundred to try and like bump the AV but do
a lower deal, like I'm sure they'd be willing to
turn that around do that for Pete as well. But once, yeah,
once Pete wants to five years, that's when you start
to get closer to like the twenty twenty five million
AAV range, which maybe that could be where Shoreber's five
year deals are. Maybe we're just under Raty Sharber right
(13:58):
now because he still has the seventy seve of a
mile and hour batspeed. He just had the fifty six
on runs. People he could he could do this with
thirty five. We're not worried about that.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
I I'm not particularly worried about Schwarbur. It's just I
like Pete war That's really this all this comes back to.
I just want to peep back petez our guy.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
I know, Pizzar guy. I don't want to see him go.
He's so nice, he's great, He's a golden retriever.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Another part of this that came out today that's kind
of funny is just the uh, the swarm of Met
fans that flocked to every single tweet that like SNY
or anything does. It's like like the SNY Mets to
the tweet. David Stearns was asked the Mets plan to
meet plans in person the winter meetings, and Sterns like
he kind of like broke character and he genuinely chuckled.
He was like, we know Pete, Pete knows us he's like,
(14:38):
he gets he's got to meet with these other teams,
see what they got for him. We know exactly what
we're doing here. We know each other quite well. And
then people, every single reply is this guy, this is
the worst. Can't believe he is doing It's crazy, the
replies and all these tweets, you guys want to chuckle
one day just to read through them.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
It is funny to think about how like the average
fan like not even listening to this podcast, Like the
people that take in like nothing besides the w un
Like when they drive to and from work, that's where
they get their sports. They're reading the New York Post,
only the Post plus articles or whatever fake nonsense gets written.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
In there the last couple of days.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
And then like they see tweets and they're like, I'm
gonna lose my fucking mind, Like I'm gonna go crazy.
David Stern's is doing it again. He's operating like cheap
Milwaukee Brewers. Like what do you want David Sterns to say?
It's almost like at some point these people are they're
clearly never gonna be happy with anything that said unless
he signs players. But then don't forget when he does
sign the big guys. That is all Steve Cohen.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Yeah, it's like your take that you had earlier in
the offseason, where every team will sign their depth guys,
but because like the Mets fans are so maniacal and rabid,
like we will all the Mets people will tweet those
things out because they know they get the engagement. But
then the engagement happens to be very angry people in
the comments stumps their dave at it again, like the
Mets sign Carl Edwards Junior, It's just be like.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
A back end glob of chaos.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Guy, hopefully not fact to the season, hopefully never makes
the parents on the major league roster. It's just someone
to get like a spring training invite, people like how
could they be wasting their time?
Speaker 1 (16:00):
I'm a guy's like this.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
It's just like, no, you just gotta fill off the roster.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Like everyone brings one hundred people to spring training, like
this is not this is not a Mets only thing. Yeah,
every teams doing that.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
But again, we wanted to start out with the big
Alonzo Schwarber rumor because that's the one that took fire
most during the day. But there was one that happened
actually earlier in the day. It was around ten to
eleven in the morning. I thought was more interesting. It
was another club that Will Sam had put out on
the Athletic and Will's been a monster this offseason. It's
been writing articles with Ken Rosensal. He's hot the winter
meetings right now. Hope to get him on here again soon.
But it was a pretty defiant report that the Mets
are not interested in any of the any long term
(16:31):
contracts the starting pitchers available this winter.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Yeah, not interested, but are still meeting with Framber, Valdez, Archton,
Michael King. It all makes sense, and it's stuff that
we've mentioned too, where like Framburgh, like five years is
the most I'd give him at like twenty five close
to thirty like that range per year, and he's probably
going to be still one of the thirty best pitchers
in baseball over the next five years as long as
(16:53):
he's healthy, Like there's nothing showing us that he can't be.
But it's now those extra years that I'm sure Framber
would want. I'm sure if he wants a Dylan Ces contract.
And this is the old conversation of like, well, if
you try and thread the needle on every single free agent,
you'll end up signing none of them. But at the
same time, I don't know no one. McLean might be
better than Fraanbervaldez next year, Like I don't know if
I want to.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Give him those seven years, he definitely might be. And again,
Mike is the the warrant there, because that's kind of
what we're playing off of it. Get to use Will's
words exactly. Despite failing to get length in their rotation
last season, the Mets are reluctant to hand out long
term offers to this season's top three agent starting pitchers.
And I think that is the most important part of
that phrase right there, this season's top three agent starting pitchers.
(17:34):
We've had a couple videos episodes talking about this over
the last few months. The second and Mets season ended.
It's the first thing we talked about. We were like, pictures,
these pictures, these guys aren't that good. But like these
this offseason's crop is starting pitchers simply weren't that good.
That's how Dylan Sees can get seven for two ten
because he throws ninety seven and has.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Been healthy his entire career. Got a bigger contract than
Blake Snell. Blake Snell's won POSI Young Awards like that.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
If that's where these now offers are going for guys
like Tatsui Min Framer Valdez, Like, I don't I don't
fault the Mets for not wanting to jump into that
despite the glaring knee on the roster. It doesn't really
give you permission to possibly make a bad decision.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Well, that's what always like I have.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
To bite my tongue seeing like social media or just
hearing like family or anybody talk about like what the
Mets need to do this off scene. It's like got
to get a picture, and I look around, I'm like, whoo,
who is that guy? Because they pay framervald does all
that money? You're gonna lose your mind in year two
or three whenever that happens. I think they yeah, it
might happen in May, Like they're like, oh, well then
go trade for someone, go oh yeah, sure, I bet you.
(18:32):
They haven't thought about that. I'm like, do you think
that this front office in this organization doesn't know that
another frontline starter would help? Is It's the same conversation
with like when tong was the Twins were like we'd
love Jonah Tong for Joe Ryan, and I was like,
I don't know if I would do that, And then
you look at the numbers and go, how much better
is he really right now than like what you theoretically
(18:53):
could have in the future with a guy like Jonah Tong.
So for me, unless the guys are there and we've
talked about Trek School, you take the shot on. Yeah,
Freddie Peralta is probably the most realistic guy, and that
could be a frontline starter and that would be a
reasonable price, Like that's where we want to take our shots.
We don't want to waste our money on more what
could be bad contracts on guys that are very, very
(19:13):
fringy where they actually lie in terms of like top
starting pitching.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
And then on the same ilk when David Searns does
these press conferences, talk to these reporters and he says,
you know, we are comfortable with our rotation. He gives
a lot of credit to the young pitchers, to the
guys in the middle. The Clay Holmes is David Peterson's people, Like,
how can he say this? Like do you want him
not to say this? YEA was gonna say our team sucks.
You want to announce to the world we need a
picture and we will do anything to get one to
ruin any leverage you possibly have the negotiation. And that's
(19:38):
also how that Joe Ryan Jonah Tong think came out
last week because I'm sure the Twins have been floating
Joe Ryan around. I'm sure they haven't gotten the offers
back that they really want so badly, so I'm sure
that they leak like we know how bad the mesiny
starting pitcher give us Joonah Tongue. Yeah, six months ago,
people were talking about Jonah Toanng like he was this
second coming, Like Jonah Toong never touched the major leagues
last year. You guys wouldn't even be willing to part
(19:59):
with Jonah Toong for anybody in the league right.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Now, no shout out, uh.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
I was dming Joe Demeyo because we were going back
and forth with people on Twitter about the whole Jonah
Tong versus Joe Ryan conversation. And it wasn't necessarily that
that Jonah Tong is better than Joe Ryan right now.
But the idea is that if you didn't see nineteen
innings of Jonahtanng about seven of those which were not
very good, you would have been like, this is one
of the best pitching prospects in all of baseball. We
(20:23):
would never even consider trading him for anything right now,
he'd be untouchable.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
And that is the truth.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Like, imagine if you took every small sample that a
rookie who came up very very quickly in a season
that wasn't expected to you'd be out on almost every
big prospect ever, Like, these guys don't come up and
have instant success always. It's hard, And let's be honest,
there's a good chance that that is the pragmatic Mets
way of thinking about Jonah Tong right now. Like the
(20:49):
way this off season's begun, like it doesn't seem like
he's on the table.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
He shouldn't be. He shouldn't be on the table.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
No, unless that was what you had to move to
get Trek Skouoble, he shouldn't with an extension in place. Yeah,
with an extension coming, he shouldn't be on the table.
There's not really that picture out there.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
If he also got traded for Terrek Scooball on a
one year deal, that would be the greatest trade ever
for rental in the history of baseball, most anyone ever
gave up for one year of a guy.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Yeah, I mean I gain I guess Wan Toto too,
but not the one year of him, the three years
of him that was the most oh true, true, true. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Michael King, Like yeah, sure, I mean again, Also, that's
a guy seems like we're very connected with. He still
to me seems like the best of both worlds for
the Mets.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Where I like his fit and I like, you've always
been a Michael King guy for a while now, and
for what this Mets team needs, Like yes, of course
for conversation narrative, the Mets need an ace, But truthfully,
if the Mets just got like forty more good innings
out of their starting pitchers last year, they made the
playoffs and then it's like, let's roll the dice, see
what happens.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
And he just like you have to be very confident
with Nolan McLain is after seeing the way last season
ended like his I.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Because we go to a lot of the games, so
I've been watching some highlights of him because I really
didn't watch many of the games on TV. I was
there and I was like, this guy's stuff is so ridiculous,
like he might just be the ace. I think that's
just it. Like this is the problem too.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
When we went to last offseason, we were so optimistic
about everything, like how could we not have been after
what happened? Go to the NLCS and then we're a
year and a day from the once start of the signing.
You guys remember how we felt after that happened, And
then we basically spent the next three months just gorging
ourselves on all the content that we could possibly do,
being like, this is the best thing ever. We saw
the Rosies colored seventy percentile outcome for every single player.
(22:32):
Now we're doing the opposite. We're looking the twenty fifth
percentile outcome for every single player. But now if you
look back and go back to even to the fiftieth
percentile or even like Manaia and Sanga, you're like, all right,
it's probably med rotation guys, like where those guys are
cool to be an or like yeah, hundred sixty innings.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
That's like a bad projection for those guys.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
And it's like, all right, so you don't really have
to squint that hard to see this happen, Like it's
it's funny.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Also, it's funny how much the year changes. You told
Mets fans going into the start next season, Likeay, what
I saying is an ace?
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Literally the last that was five months ago. We were
saying that, how about how about it in May before
he got hurt. I think it's already been like ace
literally and again like even right now, this lineup, becuy,
that is one that needs the most help.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
It needs a lot of help right now.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Talk about clifflod was saying, I BE network that he
texted me was house. Yeah, I was screaming, so MiB network.
There there's a weird thing going on with that WILLB network.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
And maybe it's there's gotta be some sort of connection
with like what they can say and can't say. But
Greg Amsinger, who I do like, I like these guys
on OMB network talking about the Mets lineup and all
the stuff that they need and what the problems are.
And he was like, yeah, you know what, I don't
think those sign of lines. I think they're gonna go.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Mark Viento's at first base.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
And Clifflood's like Mark Vientos, so are you kidding me?
He's like he lost his job at third base. He
didn't hit at all last year. He's like, the Mets
cannot go into the season with Mark Viento's and nor
will they. He's like, you would have to be like
an idiot to be like Mark Viento's is our starting
first baseman. He's got to earn his roster spot in
spring training, let alone be given the first base position.
(23:58):
Cliff Flood was irate. He was screaming. He was like,
what are we talking.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
About here, especially because like again, one like Marfienta showed
last year, he might not be able to hit major
leag pitching enough to be an every day starther two,
you're just gonna make him play first base.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
He's got bad feet, he's got horrible foot work, he's
got no range.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
So oh, look at that. We have Peede Alonzo who
doesn't hit like Peede Alonso. Great.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
I thought you were about to Kwame Brown. He's got
bad feet. He's mobile, but he can't really move. He
doesn't have a post move. He can commit to memory.
I know I'm a Viento's slanderer. I would never call
him a bone fid scrub. That's definitely Kwame Brown. No,
if you guys are millennials and you were watching Sports
Center in two thousand and four, you remember that day vividly.
But this there's just there's still actively a lot of
work to do in this roster, but at least like
(24:41):
it seems like we're very active in doing you do
these things. Another room that just came out moments before
we started recording. We tried to wait till as le
a possible at night to record this, just so we
wouldn't miss anything and that we'd be able to get
something fresh in the morning. Apparently we're now connected to
Trevor McGill along with Freddie Peralta from the Brewers, per
Joel Sherman, which I think that that's kind of a
fun spot, be it. I think that that's also a
(25:02):
move by the Brewers. Again we talk about how they're
just becoming the Brewers, but partially, but we talk about
how little these teams actually get for one year one
year of players, And I think that that's a big
misconception between what happens in Major League Baseball and how
we perceive things as fans. Where you saw Corbin Burns
get traded for two guys that are like barely major
League Baseball players, and he was like one of the
(25:22):
best pitchers in the league when that happened, literally like
two years before that was literally one of the best
pitchers in the league. So the Brewers know that if
they're not getting the offers they want for Freddie Peralta,
which is clearly the case because they haven't traded him yet,
that offer probably caps a Brandon's pro For a team
like the Mets, you add Trevor McGill to that. Now
suddenly you can get a higher profile prospect. You can
get two or three prospects, and along with a guy
(25:43):
at the top we like a lot like they're trying
to package things together what they consider a surplus and
their bullpen because they have monsters and aliens up there
whenever they need them to get a higher profile guy
or just a better volume of guys.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
With the Freddie Perlta package, I'm assuming I've been.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Seeing like what some people are throwing out there again
for Ry Prault, the packages, and like, what are we
talking about, guys. It's not about Freddy prawlt To being bad.
Freddy Prault is awesome, we know that. But the idea
is that he is on an expiring contract he needs,
he's gonna hit free agency or he's going to exigin
an extension with whoever he's with. But it's not gonna
be with the Brewers. They gotta trade him, or they
just go into this season being like, hope we win
(26:18):
it this year and and have some fun like and.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Of course it's not. They've never done that.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
David Searns also knows that because he made it that business,
and that's his brother share running the team now. So
there at least someone who worked with very closely. I
know brother share is the right word there, but just
there's there's clearly a relationship there.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
And we just we just got on Brewer.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Devin Williams like trying to get the band back together,
the team that's been really good the last few years.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I'd love Trevor McGill in this bullpen.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
I'd be sick and then we could get Ty Lore
maybe in the bullpen one day.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
And it finally comes true, the Met's actually again, we're
living in a fantasy world right now. If the Mets
traded for Trevor McGill, Trevor McGill Devin Williams would be
one of the best eight nine punches in all of baseball.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
And then if they signed Edwin Diaz Haven eight nine, well,
that's the Royals, they tell you this, then that's definitely
not going to happen.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
I maybe it will just see again. I think that's
Biggy McGill.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
So I think the big thing we're getting from this
first day of Winter meetings and how the market is
evolving right now is that Pete and Edwin might be
out there a while, so we can't be beholden to
them and wait for them and let these other things
go by. We're also still keeping our number for those
guys and keeping the option open for them. I think
at the end of the day, it's whatever those guys get,
they're gonna come back to the Mets and give them
(27:26):
one more shot to beat it or match it.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
If it's that good, I do too.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
And if the Mets aren't like really deep in the
markets for those guys and making it seem like to
the world that we're making offers every single day meetings meeting,
these meetings like high leverage put this in there, their
numbers don't go up that much. I also think that
there's like there's a weird signal to other teams. Soo's like,
why are the Mets not trembling to sign these guys?
Look at this roster, this team looks terrible and they
(27:50):
have no urgency to sign petere, A, Lonzo or Edwin.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
What do they know?
Speaker 3 (27:55):
Maybe that's just the Galaxy brand of it all. Or again,
like there's or markets, there's not many sooths for these guys.
There really isn't, which sucks for them because they're such
great players. But like, who's giving Edmond d As a
five year deal? Like the Blue Jays, you're not going
to prioritize the closer over these big time position players
like Edwind did. If he hasn't signed yet, probably he's
not signing the mega deal as Kyle Tucker.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
That's if he wants to play for these teams too. True,
he might be like, I have four teams I want
to play. We don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
I'm not I have no inside information.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
But like I think sometimes a lot of things that
we don't remember either is that these these players still
also don't have to go to cities just because they
get the good contracts. They're humans.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Yeah, that's a big part of this too.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
And again, like let's think about where which teams will
even put up the budget for an Edwin Dz.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
The Met's one of them. They have a lot of leverage.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Next, like how we just got a guy comfortable with
this closer then theoretically the Yankees, but we know they're
not actually trying to spend money right now.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
No, they're poor.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Potentially, the Phillies they just made a huge tray of
Jean Durant. I don't think they're going to do that.
The Blue Jays, they have other things they want to
fill before they circle back on Edwin Diz. The Dodgers
they just made a huge reliever mistake last year. I
really can't see them doing a big long term commitment.
For theoretical, theoretically they could all those teams theoretically can
it's just kind of using the hints that we've received
so far to think if it's actually real or not.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
And then, like the Rangers would have been another team,
but they don't want to spend money. Broke. The Angels
are always in, always in the can't count out the Angels.
But I think anyone who's seen what's going on with
them this offseason, hearing all that stuff, you want to
stay a thousand feet away a thousand feet.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
It's not enough feet thousan miles, I'd said miles, Yeah,
not thousand miles.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
The Dodgers and Giants are all within a thousand miles.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Maybe the Giants are one of these seems we also
we haven't heard much about them wanting to spend big money,
but maybe that's how they fit Todas in there. It's
just you're not going over the cups. I guess maybe
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
You're not going to red Sox.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
No, and especially these list keeps getting tighter and tiler
when it seems like guys like Pete and Edwin who
do not have rings, if they want to sign for
a place for the long term deal, they can actually
get them one Like that really really starts to shrink
and who's actually going to sign these guys, especially.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
For guys who I think like are hoping they can
be on a Hall of Fame path and the ring
could be the difference maker at times for these guys.
And even just to think back, remember that to Como
article right when the off season began and we were like, oh,
Socmo losing his fastball, saying that Pete is the more
likely return than Edwin. Now I'm really exactly see what
he meant, just because the Edwin market seems like it
(30:16):
does have a few more logical soothers than the Pete one. Yeah,
because Pete's market, I legitimately don't know who's gonna sign
him if it's not the Mets.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Or the Red CROs like the Red Sox bremant whether
they're not doing it.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Yeah, Like obviously the Phillies could, Like I think I
think that would make logical sense for moving Harper to
the outfield if you're not going to be an on
Kyle Tucker and those guys, or you move raw milk,
blood letting Harp of the DH because who knows those
and can move around the outfit? It becomes the DH.
It doesn't say Pete becomes the first base.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
But yeah, as he deteriorates in his and his skin,
it's not gonna be the Braves, it's not gonna be
the Marlins, it's not going to be the Nationals, it's
not going to be nor By Division.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Yeah, the Reds.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
I'm literally trying to think of the Reds are actually
when that could be realistic? Like, but if Pete gets
a three year deal from the reds and three yearly
from the Mets. Go and stay with the Mets, Like
that's not even big, Like this sucks.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Repeat that this is.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
This is kind of the market that's delivered for him,
but it's great for the Mets.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
He also had an opportunity to take a really fair
deal at one point, we know, and then he Scott
Boris gotten away a little bit.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
No, that was before bors. He got bor That was
pre Boris.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
I thought that.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
I thought that was the Boris move.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
I think that was before bor I think he went
Boris after that because like, now I gotta get the deal.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
You know who was his bad agent?
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Then I probably looked that up, but I gonna do
it live. There were some other interesting things that uh
Stern said. Won He kind of threw a media cold
water on Kyle Tucker, being like that we don't see
he said, because someone asked him about a deal like Solos.
You see, having a big deal like Solos on your
books step preclude you from getting a long term deal
in this class. He was like, we don't see deals
(31:48):
like Solos ever in our lives or players like show this.
I doesn't have to do any of this because that
was such a Unicorn event, but he talked about not
wanting to block. He said he used to the term
like a bunch or the few exciting field prospects that
I think are going to be big contributed to this
club for a long time, like that was a reason
that they felt okay trading bread and Demo. And that
was also a reason he doesn't see them really super
(32:09):
in on the long term corner outfield market.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Either makes sense, I can't see it. I still we
kind of felt that.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Until Cody Bellinger's not here, I won't believe it. That's
another one.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
But like last year Cody Bellinger, people were the clubs
were like, if someone pays this guy, they can have him.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
And now he's gonna get a six year deal. No way.
Two years ago this year, maybe it's four.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Two years ago, there were he was twenty seven years old,
people like that because someone gave this guy three for
eighty he signed like for nothing. Now that he was
smoking that good in LA, it's that different now, Like
I really I believe the Cody Bellinger six year contract
when I see it, but also if he gets it,
I don't want it. That's fair.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Four Uh.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
One thing that he mentioned that I loved I love
hearing about Christian Scott.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
He says he expects them to be ready for good trading.
That's awesome. That's RAZI here, That's huge.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
It's easy to forget that, like Christian Scott was like
the Nolan mclaan and johnah Tong before those guys were.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
You were that was like, my guy doesn't One of
the giddiest I've ever seen you is when he made
his debut.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
You were like you literally were like, I'm not gonna
go to work, I'm going to this game.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
Oh no, when he made his debut. Was that Saturday night,
Well that was that was talking. But that was I
don't imagine by listening to this podcash.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
But no, I'm not talking about current I'm talking about previous.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Dude.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
That Saturday night, I had like a friend's birthday party
in Williamsburg, and I was like, I'm gonna come late
becase I'm gonna I'm gonna have live tweet this entire
Christian Scott debut.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
And that is funny too. That was like the best
time by going to the game. No, I went through
Saturday afternoon.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
The next one, the first one against the Brave struck
out of the Cooni with Chather, I was like, oh
my god, this is crazy. But the fact that he
could just be a weapon that's going to be ready
in the mix for opening day, I believe he still
has options, So I think he's going to be someone's
options that can move around a lot.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
But it's nice.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
It's a nice thing to have because again, how exciting
he was when you came up. What kind of potentially
still see on that arm, Like there's there's a lot
that can happen with Christian's God, and we just we're
not going to get the ace at the top. He
as many bodies as possible, many more than we had
last year, and he could be one of those bodies.
A j Mint are also expected to be ready a
little bit after opening day, which forget about Big Boom AJ.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
He was money for us.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
He was nails and I really I'm really looking forward
to him pitching again because this bullpen could desperately use
him oh badly.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
And if Benjamin didn't get hurt, we probably make the
playoffs last Sea. Oh definitely make the playoffs. Yeah, it's
not even a question.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
I think Also I couldn't I couldn't stand out the
wise maybe think of it, but my mind just went there.
I couldn't stand Ali Marmal going on foul territory and
be like, yeah, oh yeah, we knew about that hellsy
pitch tipping thing. Do you really it was like, yeah,
easy fix it was it was. It was a little
bend in in his pre pre wind upset. God fucking
Oli Marmole guy's days are numbered, I.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Don't think so.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
I think the fact that they went back in on him,
they're they're they're locked in, ready to go brain dead.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
But I guess whatever, if you can't win with a
bad team, you can't win a bad team. The last
thing I'll mention about Steren's conversations that got asked about
Wan so Do and Francisco Lindor, and I think we
have our answer. Guys, they're not friends, but it doesn't
matter because all they tried to do was win baseball games,
and that's all we should ever care about. We lost
fucking sight in twenty twenty four because of good friendships,
es in Kumbaya and fucking that little purple monster Grimace. Now,
(35:04):
winning baseball games that's number one focus. That's all that matters.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
You don't need kumba ya, No.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
A couple guys gotta be friends Shore and you got
coworkers of friends.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
We got one common goal, win baseball games. That's all
I want this Mets team to want to do.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
Son, It's like, yeah, they both work really hard, but
both the lead players really happy to have them. Man,
I see He's like when I see them, they interact
really well. That's perfect, exactly perfect. And then the last
thing just before we leave you guys, is that the
draft lottery is going to be on Tuesday.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
We got zero point three percent.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Right, This is a massive deal for the Mets.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
A huge deal for the Mets because because we went
over the second level of the competitive balance tax threshold,
our first pick is going to get moved back ten spots.
That's been happening every single year with Steve Cohen because
we spend money. We're proud to do that. Don't don't
care happy about that. But because we sucked last year
and we're actually in this lottery as one of the
teams of the best records that missed the playoffs, we
have a point seven exactly a point six to seven
(35:58):
percent chance sixty seven.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
To have the number one overall pick. Unlikely there. But
if we get a top six pick, our draft pick
does not move back so nice, that would be incredible,
especially because truthfully, the most valuable thing about all these
draft picks is the money that comes whatever slot you landed,
and the Mets being in six versus where would they
(36:22):
be slated to fall right.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Now just one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. It
gotta be like our text seven twelve, thirteen. We're slaved
to go fourteen right.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Now, okay, and then when you drop back another ten's
on a huge difference in terms of money, and that
does change the guys that you can draft in the
rounds after.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
The first And something also great about being the top
of draft if you actually have a budget, which again
I don't want them as to ever beat the top
of the draft again. But if we get so lucky
this year, a lot of those teams at the top
of the draft play.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Games with their top draft picks.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
They want low slot guys, They want to take their
shots later on. They don't want to do this negotiation
before the draft. They don't want to go for the
big prep high school bad I mean, the Pirates got lucky,
we're able to do that too.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Years Ago Connor Griffin. It might be the best player
in baseball in a few years.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
So if we are able to somehow miraculously get into
that top five, we could possibly get a number one,
number over over, number two overall type of talent, because
we're just willing to go heavily overslot with that first pick,
where some other smaller market teams may not be as willing.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
To do so be sick. Would be sick a lot
going on winter meetings.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
If there's anything big, which I almost guarantee within an
hour of us finishing recording, we're gonna get something. So
we'll see what happens in the morning. If there's something
to talk about. This is the place for you, guys.
Subscribe to that mets up podcast, not just on YouTube,
but also audio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google wherever you listen,
drops a rating, drops a review, download and subscribe. You
can follow James on social media at Jamschiana on draftnikmark
(37:44):
see you remember guys linking description to the merch shop.
If you want to get some holiday gifts, click that.
We do appreciate you, and that's it.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Thank you guys for watching, Thanks for listening. To catch
you on the next one peace out, that guys, let's
go Betts.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
After the loves, then the love mis
The Winter Meetings have started and there are rumors swirling.
We got David Stearns talking to the media, We've got comments,
we got links to Kyle Schwarber. It seems like a
lot of things could be happening in the next few hours.
In the time that we record this to the time
that you guys see this in the morning, there might
be a lot changing and we want to talk about
every possible thing that we've learned from the first twenty
(00:32):
four ish hours of the Winter Meeting so far.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
There's a lot to go over before we do. Make
sure you are subscribed.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
To the Mets Up podcast YouTube channel. Click that's ub
button joined the team. And also big shout out to
our merch Lincoln description if you're trying to buy any
Mets up merch for Christmas, whatever holidays you celebrate, Mets
up Merch Lincoln description as well. All right, James, where
do we want to start this one off? I mean,
I feel like the Alonso Schwarber talk is.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
What's the talk of the town.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
I think so too, and I think it should be
because there's probably an understanding among the Mets organization and
among you guys watching this, Mets fans everywhere that he
signed swar Bro.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
I don't think you're signed pe Alonzo.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
This is a feels unlikely.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
This seems like a one or the other situation, and
just a case where Schwarber's mark is starting to move
fast and Pete's going slow. So like, let's let's see
if we can get a number we want for the
first guy and then get to the second guy if
the time comes.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
It does seem unlikely, but also maybe not. I mean
Stern's Sterns did say something that makes you believe that
while they might be more in on Shoreber right now,
because Schwarber's market seems to be happening very fast, and
it seems like there's a good chance Kyle Schwarber is
signed by some team by the end of these winter meetings,
that that doesn't take them out of Pete though.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
No, I don't think it does for sure, but I
think it does a lot unless they get Pete for
like a perfect number down the line and they get
Sharpared for a number they want right now. But there
were some interesting soundbites from David Searns and he did
his media availability with Steve Gelps specifically, it was like
a five minute SMI put on Twitter. But the Pete
conversation in part of that was really interesting where he
said specifically, Pete's calling cardis his bat, and he could
(01:59):
fit on this.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Team and multiple ways.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
We can get his bat in the line up, multiple ways,
but it won't take us out of pursuits that maybe
more timely as Pete's market develops. So that's him telling
us this Kysh Warper thing is happening now. The Pee
Linzo thing is not happening now. And that's as simply
as it can be put.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah, because at the end of the day, we know
that Pete is probably best best suit on this team
at DH. We also heard that Wan Soda is not
going to be dhing. He doesn't like dhing, and that's fine.
He was completely acceptable in right field the last three
months of the year at times like he was like
negative to OAA, which when you hit like Wan Soda, I.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Really don't care, doesn't matter to me at all.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
But Pete was, for lack of a better term, dog
water at first base last year. Defensively, he goes, he's
too aggressive, he can't make any throws. He's fantastic at scoops,
but we know that that's only gonna last for so long.
So for Pete truthfully to fit back on this team,
I think the Mets have made it very clear they
want him to be more of a DH that can
play first base rather than the first baseman who will DH.
(02:56):
Kyle Schrebro, on the other hand, is only a DH.
He will not touch the field, and that's why it
is interesting that the Mets could be pushing so hard
for a bona fide This is just a DH.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
But that's why I open this being like, I don't
think there's any way they fit both of these guys
on the roster unless they weirdly feel marginally confident with
college Schwarber back in left field for like fifty games
a year, I which you say that would be shocking.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
That would be shocking because he can't do that. But like,
it seems like everyone is interested in colleg Swarber right now.
Apparently the Pirates offered a record breaking franchise deal, which
is not what it sounds like. The Pirates' biggest free
agent contract they ever gave out. I just had a
mini bumbling. Biggest free agent contract they ever gave out
was to Francisco Leariano over a decade ago.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
At three years thirty nine million.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
So for the Pirates to say record breaking is very like,
you know, the greatest Sault type thing.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
But teams are interested in Shorber.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
He fits on every roster except the Los Angeles Dodgers
basically and the Yankees. Like every team I think is
trying to get Kyle Schwarber. I'm interested to see what
his contract will look like if he is with the Mets.
I can't imagine it's going to be more than three
maybe four years at most.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
But maybe that's the decision they're making and why they're
prioritizing at this exact moment Kylee Schwarber instead of pi Alonzo,
because if Pete is holding steadfast four or five years,
but you think you can get Schwarbur for three, maybe
they just think that the next three years like Schwarber,
might be better hither than Pete for the next three
years like Schwarber. It could be possibly Schwarber has higher
(04:27):
bats bean pe Alonzo. He chases way fewer pitchers out
of structions than Pilonzo. He also makes less consistent contact.
The last four years of Kylee Schwarber when you look
at them through the objective lens are less consistent than
you probably remember because of how high the heights Scott.
But two years ago Kyles Swarber was under the Mendoza
line he and he only had three forty on base percentage,
which is where Pete was this past year.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Like he's had some.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Ops's that have oscillated between you know, eight twenty and
eight fifty before this past year having the best season
of his career at thirty two years old.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Like there's in Philly.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
In Philly, Yeah, there's definitely there's definitely a fun conversation
going going on about would you rather, let's say, have
Kyle Schwarber for three years than Pelonzo for four or
five years? Right now inside those Mets rooms, is it crazy?
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Is it crazy? If I say, I think they I'd
much rather take Pete much? Why much? One? He's our
guy like that, a little bit of fandom in there,
just being like I like Pete, like I want him
to be on the Mets, and Kyle Schwarber's a Philly
like go to Boston, Kyle Schwarber, That's fine, let us
have Pete. I want Pete back. But also at the
same time, like you mentioned, the the swings that Swore
(05:30):
Schwarber's had. Offensively, It's like, if we get that one
ninety Schwarber that has like a three thirty on base,
this becomes a disaster, sure, but also there probably is
at this end, especially if you don't get Pete.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yes, if you don't get Peep, I don't. I don't
think exa any chance you get both. I think there's
a zero why not from prevention run prevention, run prevention.
We're trying to we're trying to translate what they're trying
to do right here. I want to play the fantasy
games too, but this is what the reality is.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
It's but at the end of day, Pete, if he's
on this team, it's still gonna be playing first base,
probably one hundred of one hundred and sixty games he
plays in the season.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
So it's like possibly, And honestly, I'm really starting to
think maybe not. And that's another reason why first you
might I think we're just gonna get an out of
the clear blue sky of Ryan O'Hearn two for forty
one day.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
I really think that.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
And then Pete plays first basement left handed pitchers on
the mount I think that's going to wind up happening.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
That would make me a little upset.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
But I think if you get I think that Pizer,
DH's still one of the best h's in the league.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Sure well yeah, I mean I'm not disagreeing with that.
I still obviously is a great hitter and would bring
value as DH only totally now in the fantasy world.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
If Ryan orharn just plays first base against the righties, like,
he's probably gonna sneak near an eight hundred ops.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yeah, which he kind of did this year.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
So I think I think there is a world where
that's the case there.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
But the Schwarbur things interesting because if you can get
him for that many fewer years, if that tips their
scales that much, that must be why they're so interested.
These rumors have been percolating for like twenty four hours now.
The Mets are apparently incredibly interesting College Warbur. And again
like two years ago, when College s Warber that average
drops in the one nineties, he only in eight seventeen ops. Like,
that's that's not the elite hitter that might warrant you know,
(07:03):
a thirty for the AAV deal. If you want to
get College Warber in a short deal, you probably have
to push aav.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Up that high.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
So it's me, I don't even know. I don't even
know if I do that, truthfully.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
That's what I'm kind of leaning towards. Is Listen, I'm
not gonna be upset if we get college. Absolutely not.
I'm not gonna be like, I can't believe we did this.
I again, I made it very clear, I still want
Pete over Kyle Schwarber. I think Pete will be a
better hitter the next couple of seasons. I think that
Schwarber's just got a lot of ups and downs. The
highs are gonna be the fifty home runs that we saw.
The lows are gonna be kind of what Pete did
(07:33):
in his low year. Like So that's kind of the
conversation I have here, and I'll just I'll take the
guy who's been in New York for a while. I
don't know. I also, I still, weirdly just don't see
Schwarber signing with the Mets. I see the Philly swooping
in and just like if the Mets came in at
like three for ninety, let's just say that was it
feels like three for ninety one and he just goes.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
I do wonder, though, I think that Schwarber has funny
enough proven that he could age better than Pete, just
because the bats beed is starting out higher. Like he's
thirty two now, we haven't had any negative effects of
aging yet. He pulls all of his fly balls, where
Pete pulls just a bunch of them. Pete has such
good opposite field power. He gets out there like Schwarber
less so than Pete, doesn't rely as much on bat
to ball. But Shwarbar also if he loses the bat
(08:12):
to ball, he's already one of the worst in the
leagues and get like where Pete also like. It just
makes a lot more contact, a lot more contact. It's
two very funny profiles to compare like. It genuinely is like,
I don't even think we've ever been making this comparison,
but it's it's crazy because are both free agents at
the same time, these spots in their careers.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
I also, I want to ask you this, is there
a fear for this Mets team that had so much
trouble putting the ball in play last year when it
mattered most to get another guy on this team that
is a low average guy probably honestly, but I don't
think that.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Maybe we could be concerned about that, But again, it
doesn't seem like they're concerned about that because we saw
the downside of the college Schwarber approach. This is an
irrelevant situation, but it's worth the narrative stuff right here.
When you get into a playoff series and all of
a sudden.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
You just can't touch a ball, like that's it against
the Mets except against code Ice Aga.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Know what I'm saying, It's like two years in a row.
Colle Swarber has a non effect in the playoffs. He's
also a great playoff performer before that in his career,
and I'm sure he'll get here to be a great
player performer after this.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
He was like the only member of the twenty fifteen
Cubs that showed up against the Mets in the NFCS.
He hit like a home run in every game.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Sneaky.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
And also I think that was when he was off
the tour in acl That happened that April, if I
remember that correctly.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
That was his rookie year.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
So yeah, okay, maybe this next year to maybe toward that.
I don't remember exactly the timeline ten years back about
college Forarber, but like similar to time we've had how
we've had these conversations about Cody Bellinger, coyleegeh Orber was
non tender five years ago.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
It was by the cheap Cubs.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
But yeah, it was by the very stupid cheap Cubs
don't like spending their money. But it's I don't think
college Forber is as Locke, solid guaranteed like MVP candidate
fifty home run guy like we saw this year, and
also not saying that Pete is going to be we
just saw this year for the next three years either.
But if if it's one year difference and he's two
years older and the AAV is significantly more for sh Warber, like,
(09:51):
I can definitely see how that's an absolute toss up.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
This just me seems like a timing thing. It does
seem like a timing thing. It seems like a fear
of missing out. We also know that Pete's meeting with
other teams. Maybe this is just a little I mean,
David Surns, I think he's playing big games here. So like,
I think there could also be a little bit of like,
for lack of a better term, like just trying to
fuck with Pete a little bit.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
The way that was reported, it seemed to me like
the opposite, because all the shorbur med stuff started trickling
out around Sunday night and like really get kind of
getting hot Monday morning, and then all of a sudden,
like Monday late morning, early afternoon, now Pete's driving from
Tampa to the way they're meeting the teams.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
That's why I'm like, I think Sterns just fucking with
them a little bit, like maybe it fuck with us.
And then the problem is gonna be that Pete's gonna
meet with the Orioles, and he's gonna go meet with
the Red Sox, and they're gonna be like, hey, so
especially like for the Red Sox are number one targets
Alex Bregman, We're not giving you the money that you want.
And then he's gonna meet with the Orioles, who don't
spend any money.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
And it seems like the Oriols targets really shorbur They've
been the team like most heavily Lincoln. It makes way
more sense as a lefty, it would make way more
sense for them to spend the money on Shwarbur than Pete.
It's it's almost like Pete's like kind of the second
option because of the kind of contract that he's demanding
right now. And I feel like, I mean, I do
genuinely believe the Mets want Kyle Schwarber. I don't think
(11:02):
that it's a you know, a fake rumored by any means,
especially because Stern just talking about it.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
But it does feel like this is a little cat
and mouse game again with Pete Alonzo, like, yeah, go
talk to everybody. We're gonna be going after kyleeg Schwarber.
You can go see all the offers you're gonna get,
realize you're not getting what you want, and you're gonna
come back.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Sterns was very careful not to talk about these things specifically,
because he never talks about these things specifically. His two
media availabilities again we're good the one the five minute
with Gelb's and then the uh there was like a
twenty minute that got put on YouTube. I remember if
the s and y, the Mets just starts talking to
all the reporters. But it does seem like if if
these roles were reversed, if Pete's market was hot right
now and Schwarber's one that was slow, we'd be making
these big offers Pete. I just think it's you don't
(11:41):
want to let Schwarber sign on another team and not
even make an offer on him. Sure, yeah, And I
do ultimately think that's just what it's gonna be, is
that the Mets are gonna be almost making you bid
up to get Schwarbur in a way, and for college
Schwarber that's great too, and possibly just again to get
a little more leverage on Pete, Like, it does suck
that we've gone two straight off seasons the same thing's happening.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Also, nightmare scenario.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
What if we signed Schwarbur and the Phillies are like, well,
we're gonna go get Pete like that, that's the night
that's a nightmare. I just let's just have the same
guys we had.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
I don't want to trade those guys.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Maybe that's the only way we could possibly get both
of them at the same time. As a Philly start
going hot after.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
It's like, God, that's that is a nightmare for me.
Seeing Peter Lomso playing for the Phillies would truthfully be
heartbreaking because let's butterfly affect this out right now, if
the Phillies were to actually lose Kyle Schwarber, if he
were to somehow sign with the Mets or the Orioles
or the Reds or a mystery team, the Pirates, Like
we're not talking about Yeah, Scott, throw them in that.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
I want KYLEE Swarper, I want them in Pittsburgh. They
made a four year offer. Then the Phillies all kind
of have their backs up against the wall. They kind
of do just have to do the splashiest thing they
can do, because we know that's also what Tom Browski
will do. Anyway, besides them getting like unbelievably creative on
the trade market, they don't have many direct ways to
improve that team without Kyle Tucker. Yeah, that's seriously adding
to their payroll. Like it doesn't seem like they want
(12:52):
to do that badly with two ten year commitments on
their books already. Like, I don't know, I can't. They're
the one team I can't figure out so far this offseason.
We'll have any idea what they're.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Thinking or doing. No, the only thing that we've heard
was they weren't close with Schwarber, but now they're close
on his tail.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
For signing him.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
It's not happening. Probably still the favorites that sign him
at the end of the day. They're a bizarre team.
That's why I don't I just just take your boy back,
let us get Pete and shake hands and we're good.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
That's what I want. I don't want this.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
The market is telling us too that they view they
value Schworber a lot more than Pete Alnzo Like that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Well, I mean it is.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
It's just because Pete might be getting these offers that
Schwarber is getting and he's like, h seven years because
he's a big dumb idiot, like where you're not gonna
get that Pete.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Ever, it's never happening.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
These two also might weirdly end up with like an
incredibly similar contract, like I bet, Like, let's just say
the Mets are offering Schwarbur like a three for one
hundred to try and like bump the AV but do
a lower deal, like I'm sure they'd be willing to
turn that around do that for Pete as well. But once, yeah,
once Pete wants to five years, that's when you start
to get closer to like the twenty twenty five million
AAV range, which maybe that could be where Shoreber's five
year deals are. Maybe we're just under Raty Sharber right
(13:58):
now because he still has the seventy seve of a
mile and hour batspeed. He just had the fifty six
on runs. People he could he could do this with
thirty five. We're not worried about that.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
I I'm not particularly worried about Schwarbur. It's just I
like Pete war That's really this all this comes back to.
I just want to peep back petez our guy.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
I know, Pizzar guy. I don't want to see him go.
He's so nice, he's great, He's a golden retriever.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Another part of this that came out today that's kind
of funny is just the uh, the swarm of Met
fans that flocked to every single tweet that like SNY
or anything does. It's like like the SNY Mets to
the tweet. David Stearns was asked the Mets plan to
meet plans in person the winter meetings, and Sterns like
he kind of like broke character and he genuinely chuckled.
He was like, we know Pete, Pete knows us he's like,
(14:38):
he gets he's got to meet with these other teams,
see what they got for him. We know exactly what
we're doing here. We know each other quite well. And
then people, every single reply is this guy, this is
the worst. Can't believe he is doing It's crazy, the
replies and all these tweets, you guys want to chuckle
one day just to read through them.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
It is funny to think about how like the average
fan like not even listening to this podcast, Like the
people that take in like nothing besides the w un
Like when they drive to and from work, that's where
they get their sports. They're reading the New York Post,
only the Post plus articles or whatever fake nonsense gets written.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
In there the last couple of days.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
And then like they see tweets and they're like, I'm
gonna lose my fucking mind, Like I'm gonna go crazy.
David Stern's is doing it again. He's operating like cheap
Milwaukee Brewers. Like what do you want David Sterns to say?
It's almost like at some point these people are they're
clearly never gonna be happy with anything that said unless
he signs players. But then don't forget when he does
sign the big guys. That is all Steve Cohen.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Yeah, it's like your take that you had earlier in
the offseason, where every team will sign their depth guys,
but because like the Mets fans are so maniacal and rabid,
like we will all the Mets people will tweet those
things out because they know they get the engagement. But
then the engagement happens to be very angry people in
the comments stumps their dave at it again, like the
Mets sign Carl Edwards Junior, It's just be like.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
A back end glob of chaos.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Guy, hopefully not fact to the season, hopefully never makes
the parents on the major league roster. It's just someone
to get like a spring training invite, people like how
could they be wasting their time?
Speaker 1 (16:00):
I'm a guy's like this.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
It's just like, no, you just gotta fill off the roster.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Like everyone brings one hundred people to spring training, like
this is not this is not a Mets only thing. Yeah,
every teams doing that.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
But again, we wanted to start out with the big
Alonzo Schwarber rumor because that's the one that took fire
most during the day. But there was one that happened
actually earlier in the day. It was around ten to
eleven in the morning. I thought was more interesting. It
was another club that Will Sam had put out on
the Athletic and Will's been a monster this offseason. It's
been writing articles with Ken Rosensal. He's hot the winter
meetings right now. Hope to get him on here again soon.
But it was a pretty defiant report that the Mets
are not interested in any of the any long term
(16:31):
contracts the starting pitchers available this winter.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Yeah, not interested, but are still meeting with Framber, Valdez, Archton,
Michael King. It all makes sense, and it's stuff that
we've mentioned too, where like Framburgh, like five years is
the most I'd give him at like twenty five close
to thirty like that range per year, and he's probably
going to be still one of the thirty best pitchers
in baseball over the next five years as long as
(16:53):
he's healthy, Like there's nothing showing us that he can't be.
But it's now those extra years that I'm sure Framber
would want. I'm sure if he wants a Dylan Ces contract.
And this is the old conversation of like, well, if
you try and thread the needle on every single free agent,
you'll end up signing none of them. But at the
same time, I don't know no one. McLean might be
better than Fraanbervaldez next year, Like I don't know if
I want to.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Give him those seven years, he definitely might be. And again,
Mike is the the warrant there, because that's kind of
what we're playing off of it. Get to use Will's
words exactly. Despite failing to get length in their rotation
last season, the Mets are reluctant to hand out long
term offers to this season's top three agent starting pitchers.
And I think that is the most important part of
that phrase right there, this season's top three agent starting pitchers.
(17:34):
We've had a couple videos episodes talking about this over
the last few months. The second and Mets season ended.
It's the first thing we talked about. We were like, pictures,
these pictures, these guys aren't that good. But like these
this offseason's crop is starting pitchers simply weren't that good.
That's how Dylan Sees can get seven for two ten
because he throws ninety seven and has.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Been healthy his entire career. Got a bigger contract than
Blake Snell. Blake Snell's won POSI Young Awards like that.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
If that's where these now offers are going for guys
like Tatsui Min Framer Valdez, Like, I don't I don't
fault the Mets for not wanting to jump into that
despite the glaring knee on the roster. It doesn't really
give you permission to possibly make a bad decision.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Well, that's what always like I have.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
To bite my tongue seeing like social media or just
hearing like family or anybody talk about like what the
Mets need to do this off scene. It's like got
to get a picture, and I look around, I'm like, whoo,
who is that guy? Because they pay framervald does all
that money? You're gonna lose your mind in year two
or three whenever that happens. I think they yeah, it
might happen in May, Like they're like, oh, well then
go trade for someone, go oh yeah, sure, I bet you.
(18:32):
They haven't thought about that. I'm like, do you think
that this front office in this organization doesn't know that
another frontline starter would help? Is It's the same conversation
with like when tong was the Twins were like we'd
love Jonah Tong for Joe Ryan, and I was like,
I don't know if I would do that, And then
you look at the numbers and go, how much better
is he really right now than like what you theoretically
(18:53):
could have in the future with a guy like Jonah Tong.
So for me, unless the guys are there and we've
talked about Trek School, you take the shot on. Yeah,
Freddie Peralta is probably the most realistic guy, and that
could be a frontline starter and that would be a
reasonable price, Like that's where we want to take our shots.
We don't want to waste our money on more what
could be bad contracts on guys that are very, very
(19:13):
fringy where they actually lie in terms of like top
starting pitching.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
And then on the same ilk when David Searns does
these press conferences, talk to these reporters and he says,
you know, we are comfortable with our rotation. He gives
a lot of credit to the young pitchers, to the
guys in the middle. The Clay Holmes is David Peterson's people, Like,
how can he say this? Like do you want him
not to say this? YEA was gonna say our team sucks.
You want to announce to the world we need a
picture and we will do anything to get one to
ruin any leverage you possibly have the negotiation. And that's
(19:38):
also how that Joe Ryan Jonah Tong think came out
last week because I'm sure the Twins have been floating
Joe Ryan around. I'm sure they haven't gotten the offers
back that they really want so badly, so I'm sure
that they leak like we know how bad the mesiny
starting pitcher give us Joonah Tongue. Yeah, six months ago,
people were talking about Jonah Toanng like he was this
second coming, Like Jonah Toong never touched the major leagues
last year. You guys wouldn't even be willing to part
(19:59):
with Jonah Toong for anybody in the league right.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Now, no shout out, uh.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
I was dming Joe Demeyo because we were going back
and forth with people on Twitter about the whole Jonah
Tong versus Joe Ryan conversation. And it wasn't necessarily that
that Jonah Tong is better than Joe Ryan right now.
But the idea is that if you didn't see nineteen
innings of Jonahtanng about seven of those which were not
very good, you would have been like, this is one
of the best pitching prospects in all of baseball. We
(20:23):
would never even consider trading him for anything right now,
he'd be untouchable.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
And that is the truth.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Like, imagine if you took every small sample that a
rookie who came up very very quickly in a season
that wasn't expected to you'd be out on almost every
big prospect ever, Like, these guys don't come up and
have instant success always. It's hard, And let's be honest,
there's a good chance that that is the pragmatic Mets
way of thinking about Jonah Tong right now. Like the
(20:49):
way this off season's begun, like it doesn't seem like
he's on the table.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
He shouldn't be. He shouldn't be on the table.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
No, unless that was what you had to move to
get Trek Skouoble, he shouldn't with an extension in place. Yeah,
with an extension coming, he shouldn't be on the table.
There's not really that picture out there.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
If he also got traded for Terrek Scooball on a
one year deal, that would be the greatest trade ever
for rental in the history of baseball, most anyone ever
gave up for one year of a guy.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Yeah, I mean I gain I guess Wan Toto too,
but not the one year of him, the three years
of him that was the most oh true, true, true. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Michael King, Like yeah, sure, I mean again, Also, that's
a guy seems like we're very connected with. He still
to me seems like the best of both worlds for
the Mets.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Where I like his fit and I like, you've always
been a Michael King guy for a while now, and
for what this Mets team needs, Like yes, of course
for conversation narrative, the Mets need an ace, But truthfully,
if the Mets just got like forty more good innings
out of their starting pitchers last year, they made the
playoffs and then it's like, let's roll the dice, see
what happens.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
And he just like you have to be very confident
with Nolan McLain is after seeing the way last season
ended like his I.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Because we go to a lot of the games, so
I've been watching some highlights of him because I really
didn't watch many of the games on TV. I was
there and I was like, this guy's stuff is so ridiculous,
like he might just be the ace. I think that's
just it. Like this is the problem too.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
When we went to last offseason, we were so optimistic
about everything, like how could we not have been after
what happened? Go to the NLCS and then we're a
year and a day from the once start of the signing.
You guys remember how we felt after that happened, And
then we basically spent the next three months just gorging
ourselves on all the content that we could possibly do,
being like, this is the best thing ever. We saw
the Rosies colored seventy percentile outcome for every single player.
(22:32):
Now we're doing the opposite. We're looking the twenty fifth
percentile outcome for every single player. But now if you
look back and go back to even to the fiftieth
percentile or even like Manaia and Sanga, you're like, all right,
it's probably med rotation guys, like where those guys are
cool to be an or like yeah, hundred sixty innings.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
That's like a bad projection for those guys.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
And it's like, all right, so you don't really have
to squint that hard to see this happen, Like it's
it's funny.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Also, it's funny how much the year changes. You told
Mets fans going into the start next season, Likeay, what
I saying is an ace?
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Literally the last that was five months ago. We were
saying that, how about how about it in May before
he got hurt. I think it's already been like ace
literally and again like even right now, this lineup, becuy,
that is one that needs the most help.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
It needs a lot of help right now.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Talk about clifflod was saying, I BE network that he
texted me was house. Yeah, I was screaming, so MiB network.
There there's a weird thing going on with that WILLB network.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
And maybe it's there's gotta be some sort of connection
with like what they can say and can't say. But
Greg Amsinger, who I do like, I like these guys
on OMB network talking about the Mets lineup and all
the stuff that they need and what the problems are.
And he was like, yeah, you know what, I don't
think those sign of lines. I think they're gonna go.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Mark Viento's at first base.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
And Clifflood's like Mark Vientos, so are you kidding me?
He's like he lost his job at third base. He
didn't hit at all last year. He's like, the Mets
cannot go into the season with Mark Viento's and nor
will they. He's like, you would have to be like
an idiot to be like Mark Viento's is our starting
first baseman. He's got to earn his roster spot in
spring training, let alone be given the first base position.
(23:58):
Cliff Flood was irate. He was screaming. He was like,
what are we talking.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
About here, especially because like again, one like Marfienta showed
last year, he might not be able to hit major
leag pitching enough to be an every day starther two,
you're just gonna make him play first base.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
He's got bad feet, he's got horrible foot work, he's
got no range.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
So oh, look at that. We have Peede Alonzo who
doesn't hit like Peede Alonso. Great.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
I thought you were about to Kwame Brown. He's got
bad feet. He's mobile, but he can't really move. He
doesn't have a post move. He can commit to memory.
I know I'm a Viento's slanderer. I would never call
him a bone fid scrub. That's definitely Kwame Brown. No,
if you guys are millennials and you were watching Sports
Center in two thousand and four, you remember that day vividly.
But this there's just there's still actively a lot of
work to do in this roster, but at least like
(24:41):
it seems like we're very active in doing you do
these things. Another room that just came out moments before
we started recording. We tried to wait till as le
a possible at night to record this, just so we
wouldn't miss anything and that we'd be able to get
something fresh in the morning. Apparently we're now connected to
Trevor McGill along with Freddie Peralta from the Brewers, per
Joel Sherman, which I think that that's kind of a
fun spot, be it. I think that that's also a
(25:02):
move by the Brewers. Again we talk about how they're
just becoming the Brewers, but partially, but we talk about
how little these teams actually get for one year one
year of players, And I think that that's a big
misconception between what happens in Major League Baseball and how
we perceive things as fans. Where you saw Corbin Burns
get traded for two guys that are like barely major
League Baseball players, and he was like one of the
(25:22):
best pitchers in the league when that happened, literally like
two years before that was literally one of the best
pitchers in the league. So the Brewers know that if
they're not getting the offers they want for Freddie Peralta,
which is clearly the case because they haven't traded him yet,
that offer probably caps a Brandon's pro For a team
like the Mets, you add Trevor McGill to that. Now
suddenly you can get a higher profile prospect. You can
get two or three prospects, and along with a guy
(25:43):
at the top we like a lot like they're trying
to package things together what they consider a surplus and
their bullpen because they have monsters and aliens up there
whenever they need them to get a higher profile guy
or just a better volume of guys.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
With the Freddie Perlta package, I'm assuming I've been.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Seeing like what some people are throwing out there again
for Ry Prault, the packages, and like, what are we
talking about, guys. It's not about Freddy prawlt To being bad.
Freddy Prault is awesome, we know that. But the idea
is that he is on an expiring contract he needs,
he's gonna hit free agency or he's going to exigin
an extension with whoever he's with. But it's not gonna
be with the Brewers. They gotta trade him, or they
just go into this season being like, hope we win
(26:18):
it this year and and have some fun like and.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Of course it's not. They've never done that.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
David Searns also knows that because he made it that business,
and that's his brother share running the team now. So
there at least someone who worked with very closely. I
know brother share is the right word there, but just
there's there's clearly a relationship there.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
And we just we just got on Brewer.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Devin Williams like trying to get the band back together,
the team that's been really good the last few years.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I'd love Trevor McGill in this bullpen.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
I'd be sick and then we could get Ty Lore
maybe in the bullpen one day.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
And it finally comes true, the Met's actually again, we're
living in a fantasy world right now. If the Mets
traded for Trevor McGill, Trevor McGill Devin Williams would be
one of the best eight nine punches in all of baseball.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
And then if they signed Edwin Diaz Haven eight nine, well,
that's the Royals, they tell you this, then that's definitely
not going to happen.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
I maybe it will just see again. I think that's
Biggy McGill.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
So I think the big thing we're getting from this
first day of Winter meetings and how the market is
evolving right now is that Pete and Edwin might be
out there a while, so we can't be beholden to
them and wait for them and let these other things
go by. We're also still keeping our number for those
guys and keeping the option open for them. I think
at the end of the day, it's whatever those guys get,
they're gonna come back to the Mets and give them
(27:26):
one more shot to beat it or match it.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
If it's that good, I do too.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
And if the Mets aren't like really deep in the
markets for those guys and making it seem like to
the world that we're making offers every single day meetings meeting,
these meetings like high leverage put this in there, their
numbers don't go up that much. I also think that
there's like there's a weird signal to other teams. Soo's like,
why are the Mets not trembling to sign these guys?
Look at this roster, this team looks terrible and they
(27:50):
have no urgency to sign petere, A, Lonzo or Edwin.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
What do they know?
Speaker 3 (27:55):
Maybe that's just the Galaxy brand of it all. Or again,
like there's or markets, there's not many sooths for these guys.
There really isn't, which sucks for them because they're such
great players. But like, who's giving Edmond d As a
five year deal? Like the Blue Jays, you're not going
to prioritize the closer over these big time position players
like Edwind did. If he hasn't signed yet, probably he's
not signing the mega deal as Kyle Tucker.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
That's if he wants to play for these teams too. True,
he might be like, I have four teams I want
to play. We don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
I'm not I have no inside information.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
But like I think sometimes a lot of things that
we don't remember either is that these these players still
also don't have to go to cities just because they
get the good contracts. They're humans.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Yeah, that's a big part of this too.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
And again, like let's think about where which teams will
even put up the budget for an Edwin Dz.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
The Met's one of them. They have a lot of leverage.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Next, like how we just got a guy comfortable with
this closer then theoretically the Yankees, but we know they're
not actually trying to spend money right now.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
No, they're poor.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Potentially, the Phillies they just made a huge tray of
Jean Durant. I don't think they're going to do that.
The Blue Jays, they have other things they want to
fill before they circle back on Edwin Diz. The Dodgers
they just made a huge reliever mistake last year. I
really can't see them doing a big long term commitment.
For theoretical, theoretically they could all those teams theoretically can
it's just kind of using the hints that we've received
so far to think if it's actually real or not.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
And then, like the Rangers would have been another team,
but they don't want to spend money. Broke. The Angels
are always in, always in the can't count out the Angels.
But I think anyone who's seen what's going on with
them this offseason, hearing all that stuff, you want to
stay a thousand feet away a thousand feet.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
It's not enough feet thousan miles, I'd said miles, Yeah,
not thousand miles.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
The Dodgers and Giants are all within a thousand miles.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Maybe the Giants are one of these seems we also
we haven't heard much about them wanting to spend big money,
but maybe that's how they fit Todas in there. It's
just you're not going over the cups. I guess maybe
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
You're not going to red Sox.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
No, and especially these list keeps getting tighter and tiler
when it seems like guys like Pete and Edwin who
do not have rings, if they want to sign for
a place for the long term deal, they can actually
get them one Like that really really starts to shrink
and who's actually going to sign these guys, especially.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
For guys who I think like are hoping they can
be on a Hall of Fame path and the ring
could be the difference maker at times for these guys.
And even just to think back, remember that to Como
article right when the off season began and we were like, oh,
Socmo losing his fastball, saying that Pete is the more
likely return than Edwin. Now I'm really exactly see what
he meant, just because the Edwin market seems like it
(30:16):
does have a few more logical soothers than the Pete one. Yeah,
because Pete's market, I legitimately don't know who's gonna sign
him if it's not the Mets.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Or the Red CROs like the Red Sox bremant whether
they're not doing it.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Yeah, Like obviously the Phillies could, Like I think I
think that would make logical sense for moving Harper to
the outfield if you're not going to be an on
Kyle Tucker and those guys, or you move raw milk,
blood letting Harp of the DH because who knows those
and can move around the outfit? It becomes the DH.
It doesn't say Pete becomes the first base.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
But yeah, as he deteriorates in his and his skin,
it's not gonna be the Braves, it's not gonna be
the Marlins, it's not going to be the Nationals, it's
not going to be nor By Division.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Yeah, the Reds.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
I'm literally trying to think of the Reds are actually
when that could be realistic? Like, but if Pete gets
a three year deal from the reds and three yearly
from the Mets. Go and stay with the Mets, Like
that's not even big, Like this sucks.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Repeat that this is.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
This is kind of the market that's delivered for him,
but it's great for the Mets.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
He also had an opportunity to take a really fair
deal at one point, we know, and then he Scott
Boris gotten away a little bit.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
No, that was before bors. He got bor That was
pre Boris.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
I thought that.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
I thought that was the Boris move.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
I think that was before bor I think he went
Boris after that because like, now I gotta get the deal.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
You know who was his bad agent?
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Then I probably looked that up, but I gonna do
it live. There were some other interesting things that uh
Stern said. Won He kind of threw a media cold
water on Kyle Tucker, being like that we don't see
he said, because someone asked him about a deal like Solos.
You see, having a big deal like Solos on your
books step preclude you from getting a long term deal
in this class. He was like, we don't see deals
(31:48):
like Solos ever in our lives or players like show this.
I doesn't have to do any of this because that
was such a Unicorn event, but he talked about not
wanting to block. He said he used to the term
like a bunch or the few exciting field prospects that
I think are going to be big contributed to this
club for a long time, like that was a reason
that they felt okay trading bread and Demo. And that
was also a reason he doesn't see them really super
(32:09):
in on the long term corner outfield market.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Either makes sense, I can't see it. I still we
kind of felt that.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Until Cody Bellinger's not here, I won't believe it. That's
another one.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
But like last year Cody Bellinger, people were the clubs
were like, if someone pays this guy, they can have him.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
And now he's gonna get a six year deal. No way.
Two years ago this year, maybe it's four.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Two years ago, there were he was twenty seven years old,
people like that because someone gave this guy three for
eighty he signed like for nothing. Now that he was
smoking that good in LA, it's that different now, Like
I really I believe the Cody Bellinger six year contract
when I see it, but also if he gets it,
I don't want it. That's fair.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Four Uh.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
One thing that he mentioned that I loved I love
hearing about Christian Scott.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
He says he expects them to be ready for good trading.
That's awesome. That's RAZI here, That's huge.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
It's easy to forget that, like Christian Scott was like
the Nolan mclaan and johnah Tong before those guys were.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
You were that was like, my guy doesn't One of
the giddiest I've ever seen you is when he made
his debut.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
You were like you literally were like, I'm not gonna
go to work, I'm going to this game.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
Oh no, when he made his debut. Was that Saturday night,
Well that was that was talking. But that was I
don't imagine by listening to this podcash.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
But no, I'm not talking about current I'm talking about previous.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Dude.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
That Saturday night, I had like a friend's birthday party
in Williamsburg, and I was like, I'm gonna come late
becase I'm gonna I'm gonna have live tweet this entire
Christian Scott debut.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
And that is funny too. That was like the best
time by going to the game. No, I went through
Saturday afternoon.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
The next one, the first one against the Brave struck
out of the Cooni with Chather, I was like, oh
my god, this is crazy. But the fact that he
could just be a weapon that's going to be ready
in the mix for opening day, I believe he still
has options, So I think he's going to be someone's
options that can move around a lot.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
But it's nice.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
It's a nice thing to have because again, how exciting
he was when you came up. What kind of potentially
still see on that arm, Like there's there's a lot
that can happen with Christian's God, and we just we're
not going to get the ace at the top. He
as many bodies as possible, many more than we had
last year, and he could be one of those bodies.
A j Mint are also expected to be ready a
little bit after opening day, which forget about Big Boom AJ.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
He was money for us.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
He was nails and I really I'm really looking forward
to him pitching again because this bullpen could desperately use
him oh badly.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
And if Benjamin didn't get hurt, we probably make the
playoffs last Sea. Oh definitely make the playoffs. Yeah, it's
not even a question.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
I think Also I couldn't I couldn't stand out the
wise maybe think of it, but my mind just went there.
I couldn't stand Ali Marmal going on foul territory and
be like, yeah, oh yeah, we knew about that hellsy
pitch tipping thing. Do you really it was like, yeah,
easy fix it was it was. It was a little
bend in in his pre pre wind upset. God fucking
Oli Marmole guy's days are numbered, I.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Don't think so.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
I think the fact that they went back in on him,
they're they're they're locked in, ready to go brain dead.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
But I guess whatever, if you can't win with a
bad team, you can't win a bad team. The last
thing I'll mention about Steren's conversations that got asked about
Wan so Do and Francisco Lindor, and I think we
have our answer. Guys, they're not friends, but it doesn't
matter because all they tried to do was win baseball games,
and that's all we should ever care about. We lost
fucking sight in twenty twenty four because of good friendships,
es in Kumbaya and fucking that little purple monster Grimace. Now,
(35:04):
winning baseball games that's number one focus. That's all that matters.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
You don't need kumba ya, No.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
A couple guys gotta be friends Shore and you got
coworkers of friends.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
We got one common goal, win baseball games. That's all
I want this Mets team to want to do.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
Son, It's like, yeah, they both work really hard, but
both the lead players really happy to have them. Man,
I see He's like when I see them, they interact
really well. That's perfect, exactly perfect. And then the last
thing just before we leave you guys, is that the
draft lottery is going to be on Tuesday.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
We got zero point three percent.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Right, This is a massive deal for the Mets.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
A huge deal for the Mets because because we went
over the second level of the competitive balance tax threshold,
our first pick is going to get moved back ten spots.
That's been happening every single year with Steve Cohen because
we spend money. We're proud to do that. Don't don't
care happy about that. But because we sucked last year
and we're actually in this lottery as one of the
teams of the best records that missed the playoffs, we
have a point seven exactly a point six to seven
(35:58):
percent chance sixty seven.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
To have the number one overall pick. Unlikely there. But
if we get a top six pick, our draft pick
does not move back so nice, that would be incredible,
especially because truthfully, the most valuable thing about all these
draft picks is the money that comes whatever slot you landed,
and the Mets being in six versus where would they
(36:22):
be slated to fall right.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Now just one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. It
gotta be like our text seven twelve, thirteen. We're slaved
to go fourteen right.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Now, okay, and then when you drop back another ten's
on a huge difference in terms of money, and that
does change the guys that you can draft in the
rounds after.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
The first And something also great about being the top
of draft if you actually have a budget, which again
I don't want them as to ever beat the top
of the draft again. But if we get so lucky
this year, a lot of those teams at the top
of the draft play.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Games with their top draft picks.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
They want low slot guys, They want to take their
shots later on. They don't want to do this negotiation
before the draft. They don't want to go for the
big prep high school bad I mean, the Pirates got lucky,
we're able to do that too.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Years Ago Connor Griffin. It might be the best player
in baseball in a few years.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
So if we are able to somehow miraculously get into
that top five, we could possibly get a number one,
number over over, number two overall type of talent, because
we're just willing to go heavily overslot with that first pick,
where some other smaller market teams may not be as willing.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
To do so be sick. Would be sick a lot
going on winter meetings.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
If there's anything big, which I almost guarantee within an
hour of us finishing recording, we're gonna get something. So
we'll see what happens in the morning. If there's something
to talk about. This is the place for you, guys.
Subscribe to that mets up podcast, not just on YouTube,
but also audio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google wherever you listen,
drops a rating, drops a review, download and subscribe. You
can follow James on social media at Jamschiana on draftnikmark
(37:44):
see you remember guys linking description to the merch shop.
If you want to get some holiday gifts, click that.
We do appreciate you, and that's it.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Thank you guys for watching, Thanks for listening. To catch
you on the next one peace out, that guys, let's
go Betts.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
After the loves, then the love mis
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The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.