October 21, 2025 • 35 mins
In this episode of Midlife with Courage™, Kim welcomes guest Bernadette Catalana, a New York City attorney and mother of two daughters.
Bernadette shares her early experiences of overcoming fear and building courage, recounting a significant moment from her childhood when she challenged a misplacement in a reading group.
The conversation shifts to her experiences and challenges as a mother, and later as a grandmother, emphasizing the importance of respecting and trusting adult children.
Bernadette also discusses her journey to becoming a lawyer later in life, inspired by her daughters, and her work mentoring young lawyers.
Bernadette’s book, 'Daughter Lessons,' and her insights on motherhood, career, and life are highlighted, providing listeners with inspiring lessons on courage and personal growth.
00:00 Welcome to Midlife with Courage
00:15 Meet Our Guest: Bernadette Catalana
01:07 A Childhood Story of Courage
05:18 Raising Daughters: Bernadette's Experience
09:34 Parenting Adult Children
14:00 Maintaining Family Connections
16:29 A Mother's Journey: Finding Purpose and Courage
17:49 Balancing Career and Motherhood
19:26 Embracing Grandmotherhood
21:35 Writing 'Daughter Lessons'
25:38 Reflections on Life and Writing
29:23 The Future and Final Thoughts
To learn more about Bernadette and her daughters and more, go to her website daughterlessons.com.
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Kim Benoy is a retired RN, Certified Aromatherapist, wife and mom who is passionate about inspiring and encouraging women over 40. She wants you to see your own beauty, value and worth through sharing stories of other women just like you.
My Courage & Confidence Circle is now open! Join a supportive group of other midlife women who are ready to live with courage and stop waiting for someday! This 3-month program starts in November and I would love to see you there!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kim Benoy (00:00):
You are listening to Midlife with Courage.
This is where women in midlifecome to learn how to build their
confidence, live with courage,and stop living for someday.
If you don't want to miss anepisode, make sure you subscribe
or follow.
Let's get started.
Hello everyone, and welcome backto Midlife With Courage.
I am Kim Benoy, your host today.
(00:20):
I have a beautiful guest withme.
Her name is Bernadette Catalana.
Welcome to the podcast,Bernadette.
Thank you, Kim.
Happy Friday to you.
Yes.
We are both mothers of daughtersand mothers of two daughters,
and we're gonna talk about thattoday.
But first, why don't youintroduce yourself.
Tell us where in the world youare and what you do.
(00:40):
Sure.
I am in New York City right now,and this is where I live.
I do travel a lot for work.
I'm an attorney and my office isin Midtown and I live near
Central Park and my twodaughters are both within
walking distance of me, so I amsuper, super fortunate in, in
that way.
(01:01):
That is so cool.
I love that.
So let's talk about first beforewe get into your story and your
daughters.
Tell us about a time in yourlife when you felt courageous or
you showed courage.
Oh, wow.
Are we talking ancient historyor anything you want?
Okay.
Here's the story from mychildhood that I, I felt like it
(01:23):
might have been the first timethat I had to be brave.
I was a very fearful child.
In fact, I feel like much of myearlier life.
Was defined by, by fear.
I was afraid of dogs.
I was afraid of men.
I was afraid of anyone inauthority.
I was afraid to speak out.
And when I was in fourth grade,so I had started out at St.
(01:47):
Ambrose Catholic School and whenI hit third grade, they talked
about a consolidation, whichactually happened and hit the
next year.
I was always really, really goodat reading.
I was a reader.
I love reading.
I always had a book in my handand they did testing for us.
(02:07):
When we went to the, new school.
And I remember, you know howwhen you're little, they named
the groups and they're verythinly veiled.
Like there were the eagles, thebluebird sparrows, blah, blah.
So I ended up in probably likethe Sparrow group.
I was not in the top readinggroup.
(02:29):
In fact, I was in the lowestreading group, which I knew.
Was not right in my little, youknow, 10-year-old heart.
I knew that this wasn't right,but I, I did not have the
courage to say anything, and myparents were going through a
divorce at the time, so I didn'thave any parent to advocate for
(02:52):
me.
Then at one point I rememberwalking up to our teacher, Mrs.
Mancini, and saying, I think I'min the wrong group.
I know I'm a good reader, and Ishould really be in the Eagles.
And I think she saw that.
It took every ounce of couragein me to tell her this, that
(03:17):
immediately believed me andsaid, we're gonna have you
tested again.
So she had me tested again, andin fact, I tested out higher
than any of the groups that werein my grade.
I finished through the eighthgrade readers by the end of
fourth grade, and in fifth gradeI was going into the first grade
(03:40):
and helping the first graderslearn how to read.
So, Aw, I know that's like alittle trite story, but for me
it really, like I, I can stillall these years later.
Remember how hard it was for meto come up with that courage to
tell somebody in authority thatthere was some kind of mistake
(04:01):
and it, it really, courage hasbeen something that I struggled
with quite a bit in, I would saythe first 40 years of my life.
Yeah, for sure.
I always tell women at thispoint in your life, if you're
not feeling confident orcourageous, look back at all the
things that you've done alreadythat you just kind of forget
(04:23):
about.
Or maybe you just don't thinkthat they're that big of a deal,
but that that was a big deal foryou.
And it's, you know, yes, it andis a muscle.
Like anything else, if you don'texercise it and flex it, you're
not gonna have it.
So the more you confront yourfears, and then I, I did get to
(04:45):
a point where I thought,anything I'm afraid of, I'm
gonna run at it.
I am gonna run at it.
I was not great at publicspeaking and I decided, I was
getting to a point where Ithought, okay, I'm gonna sign up
to read at church.
I'm gonna read a church, so I'mgonna be in front of all these
people and I, I'm just, there'snot gonna be any room to be
(05:08):
afraid.
So yeah, that's been one way Itackled that lack of courage
that I felt like I was bornwith.
Yeah.
Amazing.
So you have two daughters.
Tell us about them.
Okay.
Carly's my oldest, and she is.
14 months older than Courtney,who's my youngest.
(05:30):
Oh, wow.
And they are just, they, they'rejust delightful.
Carly is a young mom and she hastwo daughters that are about 16
months apart.
So I feel like I'm watching herlive my life over again.
They're three and two.
She is a digital marketingmanager, which is for a real
(05:51):
estate company, which I think isa job suited for a lot of young
people.
Right.
Because they grew up and that'swhat they know.
Sure.
My daughter Courtney, isexpecting her first baby in
December, which is super cool.
We're excited.
She is having a girl.
So we're very young girls.
I'm also one of seven children,six girls.
(06:13):
One boy.
Oh my gosh.
In fact, I just learned this onSunday at a family reunion.
Courtney and three of my niecesare all pregnant at the same
time.
They're all due within a month,and they're all having girls.
Oh my gosh.
Girls run in your family.
Yeah, they, they sure do.
(06:33):
So Courtney the younger of thetwo is a former professional
dancer.
She is married to a, I shouldsay retired.
Retired professional dancer.
Mm-hmm.
And we are pretty certain thisbaby is probably gonna wanna
dance.
That's moving around in there.
Yeah.
Both ballet dancers, so, andthey both had great careers and
(06:57):
they're still both teaching andcoaching.
Mm-hmm.
But Courtney is the humanresource director.
So during COVID, which wasreally a very tough blow to a
lot of people in the artscommunity, both she and her now
husband were in shows.
Shows abruptly ended and youknow, their livelihoods.
(07:19):
So Courtney went back to school,finished up her undergrad and
got her masters.
Wow.
Got her MBA and she is workingfor a startup company and she is
the, you know, recruiter, humanresource director and she's
doing really great in, in thatjob.
It's, it's a tough transitiongoing from professional.
(07:41):
Artist to being in the, eight tofive world.
But yeah, I her a lot of credit.
She's doing well with it.
Yeah.
Oh, that's amazing.
I can hear the pride in yourvoice when you talk about them.
That's wonderful.
My girls are.
Adults now, of course.
And they were, they're twins.
They're still twins.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
Are they identical or fraternal?
(08:03):
They're supposed to beidentical, but there's things
about them that makes me thinkthey're not.
Okay.
You know, but, but yeah.
So I know we had our trials andtribulations.
I, they're great people.
They're wonderful.
They're like my best friends.
Is there anything that sticksout to you that maybe are
challenges for raising girls?
Yeah.
And the, the girls wereextremely different.
(08:25):
Carly was and is, and has beenalways extremely spirited and
has her own mind.
So she was not, let's just sayshe was not one, always willing
to take direction.
Courtney, completely differentchild.
I, I will say, and I, and I'm.
(08:45):
I, I really stretched try tothink of an occasion.
I don't know that I ever had toraise my voice to Courtney ever
once Oh, wow.
In, in her life.
But she also saw the challengeswith Carly, and she would say, I
feel so bad for you.
I feel so bad for you and dad.
(09:07):
So you know what?
I think that's that's valid.
I will say as adults, I'mworried about Carly much less
than I've worried about Courtneybecause Carly has that courage.
Mm-hmm.
She is afraid of nothing.
And Courtney, even though shecan dance in front of, you know,
a thousand people she's a littlemore timid, probably a little
(09:29):
bit more like I.
Started out.
Sure, sure.
So I wanna talk about parentingadult children, because I'm sure
there were times for you wheremaybe they made choices or did
things that maybe you didn'tagree with or I didn't think you
(09:50):
were gonna do that.
Did you have anything like that?
First of all, I should probablyask that of Of course.
Of course.
We all do.
I think the important thingabout raising adults and, and
parenting adult children,because you know, first of all,
people, your life changes, yourrole changes, and you have to
accept that we don't want to andit, it is hard.
(10:14):
Not being, the center of thehive, so to speak.
Yeah.
Anymore.
I mean, they're, they're livingin different places than you
most of the time, right?
Mm-hmm.
So you're not even seeing day today.
And then when we hear things, wehear about it.
Oh, you know, we hear about likesomething big happening.
Mm-hmm.
But I will say, I think what'shelped me with that is I mentor
(10:37):
a lot of young lawyers.
So part of my job I was managingpartner of the New York office
in my last firm.
I'm also the founding partner inthe New York office here, and
also manage it now and work withyoung lawyers and I also young
lawyers on the teams that Ileave.
So I have had a lot of practiceworking with young adults and
(11:01):
you have to respect them.
Absolutely have to respect them.
And I also think you have totrust the process.
You did the job, you did thebest job that you could do.
You gave them the skills.
And you know, Carly and I, and Italk to my girls all the time,
we are so lucky.
We talk every day virtually, andI see them a lot as well.
(11:24):
And Carly and I were talkingabout.
The fact that sometimes you haveto, even though you know someone
is heading towards maybe a baddecision or a decision you
wouldn't make as the parent tosome degree, you have to have
enough faith to say that's theirmistake.
(11:46):
That's their mistake to make.
And I think about the mistakes,you know, finger quote, mistakes
that I've made in my life, andthose have been my best
teachers.
So why would we deprive ourchildren of what could truly be
their best teacher now?
Yeah.
I know there are extremesituations where there might be
(12:08):
a health issue or a threat ofphysical or emotional harm.
Mm-hmm.
And I don't miss words with mygirls.
I'm very direct.
Mm-hmm.
I try to, even when I am tryingto maybe guide them in a certain
direction or they've come to meand I can see that they really
don't know how they are going tocome down on an issue.
(12:34):
Mm-hmm.
I, I try to end with, I trustyou, I know you've thought about
this long and hard, and I knowyou'll make the right decision
for you, and then just.
Kind of have my peace with it,because what can you do that's
so hard?
But think about like, did youteach your girls how to drive?
(12:56):
Yes.
Okay.
Yep.
Wasn't that hard.
Oh yeah.
Letting them, letting them gooff in the car when they got
their license.
'cause you knew they reallydidn't know how to drive.
They knew enough to pass thetest.
Right, right.
Yeah.
So I, at that point, I made ita, a practice for myself.
(13:17):
I'm gonna say one prayer a dayin the morning for everyone's
physical safety.
And then I literally need togive it over because Yeah.
It, it's, it's not productive.
It's not doing anyone any good.
If I was sitting around anervous wreck thinking, oh my
gosh, what are they doing in theco, you know?
(13:39):
Right, right, right.
So, yeah.
Say one offer, one up to heavenfor everyone to be safe every
day.
And then I think you have to letit go.
Yeah, for sure.
You just have to, it's.
As I've gotten more mature, Iknow, there's things I can
control.
There's things I can't let itgo, so, yeah.
Yeah.
But it's tough.
(13:59):
I think.
So where are your girls?
My girls live within an hour ofme.
So, every morning we have atext, a family text.
Good morning.
Love you.
You know, so, oh, that's sosweet.
Yeah.
We schedule one time a month tohave dinner together.
Like all of us, like onedaughter's married, one daughter
has a partner.
So, you know, we all, the six ofus get together to do something
(14:23):
each month, so we know we havethat.
So it's, it is nice to have themnearby, but there's been, you
know, situations where.
Let go and let God, becauseliterally I can't fix it.
I think that's the biggest thingis like trying to fix for them.
That's not my job anymore.
No, I mean, again, your job isreally important and I, I think
(14:45):
sometimes our job as parentingadults may even be more
important because what ourchildren are facing, the
consequences are so much bigger,you know?
My mother-in-law used to say.
Little children, littleproblems, big children, big
problems.
I mean, nothing so true, right.
Has been said.
So we might not be working inthe office every day.
(15:09):
We we're working remote.
So working remote has itschallenges, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So how do we make thatconnection when we're not there
every single day?
And even though we're all in thesame city and, you know, in
walking distance, I may notnecessarily be eyeballing
everybody every day.
Mm-hmm.
Which, you know, is, is animportant part of knowing how
(15:30):
people are doing.
Right.
So, you know, I'm grateful.
And I think, you know, it soundslike you're in a similar
situation.
Just be so grateful that thoselines of communication are, are
open.
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, I just think backone generation to my mom.
I, I didn't necessarily feelclose to my mom, probably
(15:53):
because I was one of sevenchildren.
I was one of the youngest of theseven children.
I was number six.
And my mom was a single mother.
Oh.
For much of my growing up.
Wow.
So I really, really didn't feelall that connected.
I didn't really feel like I knewher that well or that she knew
(16:15):
me.
Mm-hmm.
And you know, actually Carly andI were talking last night and
she said, mom, you healed thatin one generation.
You healed.
That disconnect.
And I thought, wow, what acompliment to hear from my adult
daughter and True, true.
Yeah.
(16:35):
That is amazing.
Did you consciously do that ordid you just, that just happened
because of how you found yourcourage maybe?
Yeah, in all candor.
Becoming a mother, and I was ayoung mother, certainly by
today's standards.
I was, I was a young mother andit was really the first thing I
had ever done in my life thatmade me feel important.
(16:57):
I felt connected, I was good atit.
I just embraced being a motherso much and committed myself.
'cause I, I, I probably havenever felt good about myself.
Ever in my life until I hadCarly and very shortly after I
(17:19):
was plotting how, I wanna haveanother one because I am
enjoying this and I'm so happy.
Mm-hmm.
And then sure enough, you know,Courtney came around 14 months
later and I think that just mademe extremely committed mm-hmm.
To the process.
Mm-hmm.
I am going to.
(17:40):
Do everything I can.
I'm going to commit every singleday of my life to loving these
girls, raising these girls, anddoing what I can.
And that's why I went back tolaw school.
I wanted Carly to be proud ofme.
So in between.
I mean, I had a job.
It was okay.
(18:00):
But I knew I was smart and Iknew I should have been in the
Eagles.
Right?
Yep.
You knew you were an eagle, notthe, not the Bluebirds or the
sparrows.
And I took the LSAT when I wassix months pregnant with
Courtney.
Oh my gosh.
That is amazing.
Yeah, it was just kind of meantto be.
(18:20):
And really much of the successthat I've had in my adult life,
I attribute directly to mychildren inspiring me to go
there.
Mm hmm.
I love that.
I didn't realize you had gone tolaw school and then I thought
you just were a lawyer first, sothat, that is on top of having
children.
I know that that's not an easything to do anyway, but then
(18:43):
having the children, but havingthat goal of showing your
daughters, what they can do too,really.
Yes.,, I was sworn into the NewYork bar on Courtney's fifth
birthday.
Love it.
So it was, it was just such anamazing moment right.
For you right there.
And, and they, you know, andthey've seen me, they've seen me
(19:05):
work, work really hard.
It's, this is not an easy lifethat we chose, but mm-hmm.
I.
I am at peace with it and I, Ienjoy it and I especially enjoy
kind of my role as professionalmother to a lot of, a lot of
younger lawyers, and that's beenreally good for me as well.
That's great.
I love that.
(19:26):
So how has becoming agrandmother changed, your
relationship with yourdaughters?
Yeah, that's a great question.
It's a shame in our worldbecause grandmother is almost a
pejorative word.
And, and I, you know, and Ithink back on it, I loved my
grandmother shows my favoriteperson in the entire world until
(19:47):
my children were born.
Mm-hmm.
So I will say there was someprobably irrational I don't know
how I feel about this.
Probably the word grandmothermore than anything, but so happy
for Carly and so to see her sohappy and see her really having
a very similar experience that Ihad with my girls.
(20:11):
Mm-hmm.
She's so happy.
Never seen her.
So happy.
So I love it.
And I, and obviously I love.
The girls, they're wonderful.
Blake and Gemma, and they arethree and two.
And we have so much fun.
And usually you know, I'll, I'llwatch them.
They'll come stay with me at myapartment when they have
something, you know, and Carlyand Phil have something to do.
(20:33):
Yeah.
Wedding or whatever.
In fact, I watched Blake for aweek when they went to Europe
when she was.
Maybe seven months old.
And when Carly came back, shewas pregnant with, with Gemma.
So, very productive trip.
Yes, you're welcome.
Yeah, exactly.
And I, you know, I, I was ableto be there.
(20:54):
In fact, when, when Blake wastiny.
Until they moved to their, theircurrent apartment.
So maybe, probably Blake's firstyear.
I lived down the street fromthem.
I literally lived one blockaway.
Nice.
So I would walk there everymorning when I was going to the
office.
Drop off my dog.
(21:14):
The nanny would watch Blake andmy dog.
And then when I came back atnight, I would, I would pick up
Jacks and see Blake.
So that was really nice foreverybody because I was able to
be, you know, Johnny on the spotwhen they needed somebody.
Right, right there.
Yeah.
It's amazing that, that's socool.
I love that.
(21:35):
So your book is called.
Daughter lessons.
Yeah.
I have it right here, daughter.
I have, yeah.
Tell us some things marked init, and Yeah.
Tell us about how that allstarted.
Yeah.
I, I started, well, I, I am anessay writer.
I, I would say that's the formatof writing that I like the best.
(21:55):
And I had written a lot ofessays over the course of time.
I have a website, lessons.com.
And I just, you know, how, howdid I start out writing these
essays?
Well, I was getting to a pointwhere I knew that the girls
would not be living with meanymore.
Mm-hmm.
(22:16):
And then, you know, the moreominous thought is that, well,
although I'd like to, I'mprobably not gonna live forever.
You know, we have a limitednumber of days on the earth, and
I thought so.
They're not only gonna not bewith me, I'm not gonna be with
them.
Mm-hmm.
And I want them to know me.
(22:39):
I want them to maybe learn someof the lessons that I learned in
my life, not only from raisingthem or lessons that I'm giving
to them, but also lessons Ilearned being a daughter.
Sure.
And, you know, just theforgiveness that is often
required in any familyrelationship no matter how close
(23:01):
you are.
So I got up one morning, it wasOctober 1st, and every single
day for a month, I wrote down alesson for the girls.
Not, not extremely, like you'llsee.
They're very short.
Very short to the point, and Itry to.
Give them a sense of what it waslike in, in my life, some of the
(23:24):
things that happened in my lifeand how, you know, how they can
really, you can really reinventyourself at, at any age and any
stage, and just choose to behappy.
There's so much happiness to behad out there if we look for it.
Mm-hmm.
And if we do it.
(23:45):
So that's, that's where itstarted from and it just kind of
took on a life of its own andit's been such a blessing for
me.
I've enjoyed it.
I've enjoyed people who I'venever met before.
Reading the book and reachingout to me saying, I loved your
book, and this is what I likeabout it.
And people that I do know whoare close to me, one of my best
(24:08):
friends, Lynn.
Her mother is in her ninetiesand she said, I keep your book
by my bed.
And I pick it up and I read justone little lesson and it makes
me feel better.
And you know that, I mean, nothow can that do anything but
make you feel really good aboutyourself.
Yeah.
That's why people write booksthey wanna share and they wanna
(24:29):
help other people and yes.
That's what you're doing.
That is how I feel.
I just want other mothers tofeel, I mean, I so identified
with being a mom and, and that'snot unusual.
Mm-hmm.
That's how I think most of usare.
'cause it's the best thing, bestjob we ever had.
Right.
But the day comes when you'regonna get fired or at least you
(24:51):
feel like you're getting firedfrom the best job you ever had.
And that's scary for people.
Yeah.
But I want people to know itdoesn't have to be that way.
And there's, there's so manygood times ahead.
You know, I just, I did, I wason, on my phone with Carly.
I had my headphones in.
I was walking to Bloomingdale'slast night, and we had such an
(25:13):
amazing conversation and shesaid, mom, we're so lucky.
And I thought, yeah, we are.
Yes, we are.
You know, and we can keep itgoing for as long as we choose.
Yeah.
Oh my goodness.
So many good lessons there.
So many good messages too.
I love that.
So what do you see ahead, do youthink you want to write more or
(25:36):
what's going on?
Sure.
I do write, I am on LinkedIn andI do post on the practice of law
and the practice of life.
So I, I do write I write a lotof light things'cause I try to
look for the lightness, but I dowrite about serious things as
well.
(25:56):
In fact I'm looking out a windowhere to my right.
And that building that is rightacross the street was the the
scene of the most recent massshooting.
In New York City just before theone that unfortunately happened
in Minnesota, which broke myheart.
(26:18):
And I wrote about that.
I wrote about that on LinkedInand it, my posts certainly had
quite a bit of reach there.
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, the, the messagethere was, and I, I titled it,
are you okay?
Because as I.
(26:38):
You know, that happened.
Luckily, we were all fine.
We had all just left the office.
We have a small office.
We're growing, so we all tend toleave at the same time.
We check in each other.
I mean, New York is, is not theeasiest place to be.
So we're all concerned aboutsafety, always.
Sure.
So.
I had just walked home to myapartment.
(27:01):
I walked to work every day and Ijust walked into my apartment
and one of the associates, Dannysaid, are you home?
There's a shooting near ourbuilding.
So that was all he knew.
So it was, we were all checkingin with each other.
Then as my wider circle, youknow, this was hitting the news.
(27:23):
I got a lot of texts.
Are you okay?
Are you okay?
And, you know, the whole gist ofmy words were, as long as our
babies have to learn how to hideunder a desk to save themselves
from someone trying to murderthem at school, and as long as,
(27:47):
you know, people are allowed tobuy automatic weapons mm-hmm.
We, none of us are.
Okay.
None of us are, okay, this needsto stop.
I wish I knew an answer.
I so wish I knew an answer, butsometimes just writing the
question, a lot of peopleconnected with what I wrote
(28:12):
because.
We don't know what to do.
Mm-hmm.
And the unfortunate thing isthis is becoming so commonplace.
We're going through this cycleof outrage, devastation, wanting
to do something, and thennumbness.
(28:33):
Because nothing is, you know, noone's listening, right?
There's nobody listening topeople who are outraged by this.
It's interesting.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
I do write on LinkedIn.
I, earlier in this year the weekbefore Mother's Day, I was a
guest columnist.
For the Assi Institute and wroteabout motherhood every day, and
(28:54):
then I parallel posted those onmy website.
So, okay.
I do like to write and you knowwhen maybe at another time when
I have more time to sit down andwrite, I, I have like two, two
fiction works.
I have multiple chapters done,but you know, as lawyers, we
(29:16):
don't have a lot of time toSure.
To actually like bang out abook.
I wish those, yeah, yeah.
Do you think you'll retire soonfrom being a lawyer or.
I don't, I'm just curious.
No, I really enjoy it and Ihave, I'm not there.
I'm not quite there.
Yeah, that's good.
Age, age wise or stage wise, so,yeah.
(29:37):
Okay.
I was, I always, that's curiousto me.
Yeah.
Because it's such a hard job orYeah, you're so busy with so
many different, I don't what, Iwanna say lawyering, but I don't
think that's the right word.
No, no.
Lawyering is exactly right.
I am in litigation, I lead oneof the, the, probably the
(29:59):
biggest gist of my job is I leadlitigation teams.
So there are, you know, certainlitigations they call mass tort.
So companies get sued, not justin one lawsuit.
They get sued in.
Multiple lawsuits.
So I work with those companiesand work with their lawyers to
(30:20):
get ready for trials and I alsodo a lot of resolution work, so
I do negotiations.
It's, it's brisk.
I mean, there's no doubt aboutit, but I enjoy it.
And, and like I said, I amenjoying the, role of working
with younger lawyers and, andhelping them have the confidence
to keep going and keep their eyeon one, the profession that they
(30:45):
chose, but also having apersonal life that is extremely
important.
And it's easy for people in thisprofession, probably in the
medical profession as well.
To think that what you do is whoyou are.
Mm-hmm.
And that's just so not true.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's a whole other topicthat we could get into, but in
(31:08):
the interest of time.
Yeah.
So where would you like peopleto go?
I know you, you said youmentioned your website.
Do you wanna say that again sopeople can find you if, yeah.
Daughter lessons.com.
I have a lot of posts aboutmotherhood and they're, I'll say
pretty fun and pretty.
And my, my book is onamazon.com.
You can get it there and I'mthinking maybe I will read a
(31:32):
short blurb from my book.
Yes, please.
That would be perfect.
And actually I have one called.
Sweet goodbyes and each of myentries is it begins with a
quote, and this one is fromWinnie the Pooh.
How lucky I am to have somethingthat makes saying goodbye so
(31:52):
hard.
Courtney left today and won't behome again until Christmas.
We had fun during her off seasonfrom the Dayton Ballet, but it
went way too fast.
Like all the time I spend withmy girls.
Perhaps the hardest part ofbeing a parent is being
separated from your children asthey grow up and often away.
(32:13):
Thank God for the modernconveniences of cell phone,
texting, and Skype, which now wewould say Zoom.
They really do make it easier tostay in touch, but technology
can't replace being with someonein person.
There is something sacred insharing space, breathing the
same air, just being together.
It was with great joy that Idiscovered Courtney left her
(32:36):
favorite water bottle and had toreturn for it before hitting the
road with her dad.
At least when she left thesecond time, I remembered to
grab a picture of her and peanutsharing one final snuggle.
No goodbyes are never easy, butthey are sweet when we know that
we send our children out intothe world armed with love and
(32:56):
our faith in them.
I love that.
An example of, one of my essaysthat you can find in daughter
lessons.
Wonderful.
Wonderful.
Well, I think we're gonna end itthere, Bernadette, thank you so
much for joining me today.
Good luck in your futureendeavors, and we'll put the
links to your website in ourshow notes so people can go and
(33:19):
grab that and read more of thosewonderful words.
Great.
Thank you.
Take good care, Kim.
Thank you for listening toMidlife with Courage.
If you enjoyed this episode,please leave me a review or even
better send a link to a friend.
You are listening to Midlife with Courage.
This is where women in midlifecome to learn how to build their
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Let's get started.
Hello everyone, and welcome backto Midlife With Courage.
I am Kim Benoy, your host today.
(00:20):
I have a beautiful guest withme.
Her name is Bernadette Catalana.
Welcome to the podcast,Bernadette.
Thank you, Kim.
Happy Friday to you.
Yes.
We are both mothers of daughtersand mothers of two daughters,
and we're gonna talk about thattoday.
But first, why don't youintroduce yourself.
Tell us where in the world youare and what you do.
(00:40):
Sure.
I am in New York City right now,and this is where I live.
I do travel a lot for work.
I'm an attorney and my office isin Midtown and I live near
Central Park and my twodaughters are both within
walking distance of me, so I amsuper, super fortunate in, in
that way.
(01:01):
That is so cool.
I love that.
So let's talk about first beforewe get into your story and your
daughters.
Tell us about a time in yourlife when you felt courageous or
you showed courage.
Oh, wow.
Are we talking ancient historyor anything you want?
Okay.
Here's the story from mychildhood that I, I felt like it
(01:23):
might have been the first timethat I had to be brave.
I was a very fearful child.
In fact, I feel like much of myearlier life.
Was defined by, by fear.
I was afraid of dogs.
I was afraid of men.
I was afraid of anyone inauthority.
I was afraid to speak out.
And when I was in fourth grade,so I had started out at St.
(01:47):
Ambrose Catholic School and whenI hit third grade, they talked
about a consolidation, whichactually happened and hit the
next year.
I was always really, really goodat reading.
I was a reader.
I love reading.
I always had a book in my handand they did testing for us.
(02:07):
When we went to the, new school.
And I remember, you know howwhen you're little, they named
the groups and they're verythinly veiled.
Like there were the eagles, thebluebird sparrows, blah, blah.
So I ended up in probably likethe Sparrow group.
I was not in the top readinggroup.
(02:29):
In fact, I was in the lowestreading group, which I knew.
Was not right in my little, youknow, 10-year-old heart.
I knew that this wasn't right,but I, I did not have the
courage to say anything, and myparents were going through a
divorce at the time, so I didn'thave any parent to advocate for
(02:52):
me.
Then at one point I rememberwalking up to our teacher, Mrs.
Mancini, and saying, I think I'min the wrong group.
I know I'm a good reader, and Ishould really be in the Eagles.
And I think she saw that.
It took every ounce of couragein me to tell her this, that
(03:17):
immediately believed me andsaid, we're gonna have you
tested again.
So she had me tested again, andin fact, I tested out higher
than any of the groups that werein my grade.
I finished through the eighthgrade readers by the end of
fourth grade, and in fifth gradeI was going into the first grade
(03:40):
and helping the first graderslearn how to read.
So, Aw, I know that's like alittle trite story, but for me
it really, like I, I can stillall these years later.
Remember how hard it was for meto come up with that courage to
tell somebody in authority thatthere was some kind of mistake
(04:01):
and it, it really, courage hasbeen something that I struggled
with quite a bit in, I would saythe first 40 years of my life.
Yeah, for sure.
I always tell women at thispoint in your life, if you're
not feeling confident orcourageous, look back at all the
things that you've done alreadythat you just kind of forget
(04:23):
about.
Or maybe you just don't thinkthat they're that big of a deal,
but that that was a big deal foryou.
And it's, you know, yes, it andis a muscle.
Like anything else, if you don'texercise it and flex it, you're
not gonna have it.
So the more you confront yourfears, and then I, I did get to
(04:45):
a point where I thought,anything I'm afraid of, I'm
gonna run at it.
I am gonna run at it.
I was not great at publicspeaking and I decided, I was
getting to a point where Ithought, okay, I'm gonna sign up
to read at church.
I'm gonna read a church, so I'mgonna be in front of all these
people and I, I'm just, there'snot gonna be any room to be
(05:08):
afraid.
So yeah, that's been one way Itackled that lack of courage
that I felt like I was bornwith.
Yeah.
Amazing.
So you have two daughters.
Tell us about them.
Okay.
Carly's my oldest, and she is.
14 months older than Courtney,who's my youngest.
(05:30):
Oh, wow.
And they are just, they, they'rejust delightful.
Carly is a young mom and she hastwo daughters that are about 16
months apart.
So I feel like I'm watching herlive my life over again.
They're three and two.
She is a digital marketingmanager, which is for a real
(05:51):
estate company, which I think isa job suited for a lot of young
people.
Right.
Because they grew up and that'swhat they know.
Sure.
My daughter Courtney, isexpecting her first baby in
December, which is super cool.
We're excited.
She is having a girl.
So we're very young girls.
I'm also one of seven children,six girls.
(06:13):
One boy.
Oh my gosh.
In fact, I just learned this onSunday at a family reunion.
Courtney and three of my niecesare all pregnant at the same
time.
They're all due within a month,and they're all having girls.
Oh my gosh.
Girls run in your family.
Yeah, they, they sure do.
(06:33):
So Courtney the younger of thetwo is a former professional
dancer.
She is married to a, I shouldsay retired.
Retired professional dancer.
Mm-hmm.
And we are pretty certain thisbaby is probably gonna wanna
dance.
That's moving around in there.
Yeah.
Both ballet dancers, so, andthey both had great careers and
(06:57):
they're still both teaching andcoaching.
Mm-hmm.
But Courtney is the humanresource director.
So during COVID, which wasreally a very tough blow to a
lot of people in the artscommunity, both she and her now
husband were in shows.
Shows abruptly ended and youknow, their livelihoods.
(07:19):
So Courtney went back to school,finished up her undergrad and
got her masters.
Wow.
Got her MBA and she is workingfor a startup company and she is
the, you know, recruiter, humanresource director and she's
doing really great in, in thatjob.
It's, it's a tough transitiongoing from professional.
(07:41):
Artist to being in the, eight tofive world.
But yeah, I her a lot of credit.
She's doing well with it.
Yeah.
Oh, that's amazing.
I can hear the pride in yourvoice when you talk about them.
That's wonderful.
My girls are.
Adults now, of course.
And they were, they're twins.
They're still twins.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
Are they identical or fraternal?
(08:03):
They're supposed to beidentical, but there's things
about them that makes me thinkthey're not.
Okay.
You know, but, but yeah.
So I know we had our trials andtribulations.
I, they're great people.
They're wonderful.
They're like my best friends.
Is there anything that sticksout to you that maybe are
challenges for raising girls?
Yeah.
And the, the girls wereextremely different.
(08:25):
Carly was and is, and has beenalways extremely spirited and
has her own mind.
So she was not, let's just sayshe was not one, always willing
to take direction.
Courtney, completely differentchild.
I, I will say, and I, and I'm.
(08:45):
I, I really stretched try tothink of an occasion.
I don't know that I ever had toraise my voice to Courtney ever
once Oh, wow.
In, in her life.
But she also saw the challengeswith Carly, and she would say, I
feel so bad for you.
I feel so bad for you and dad.
(09:07):
So you know what?
I think that's that's valid.
I will say as adults, I'mworried about Carly much less
than I've worried about Courtneybecause Carly has that courage.
Mm-hmm.
She is afraid of nothing.
And Courtney, even though shecan dance in front of, you know,
a thousand people she's a littlemore timid, probably a little
(09:29):
bit more like I.
Started out.
Sure, sure.
So I wanna talk about parentingadult children, because I'm sure
there were times for you wheremaybe they made choices or did
things that maybe you didn'tagree with or I didn't think you
(09:50):
were gonna do that.
Did you have anything like that?
First of all, I should probablyask that of Of course.
Of course.
We all do.
I think the important thingabout raising adults and, and
parenting adult children,because you know, first of all,
people, your life changes, yourrole changes, and you have to
accept that we don't want to andit, it is hard.
(10:14):
Not being, the center of thehive, so to speak.
Yeah.
Anymore.
I mean, they're, they're livingin different places than you
most of the time, right?
Mm-hmm.
So you're not even seeing day today.
And then when we hear things, wehear about it.
Oh, you know, we hear about likesomething big happening.
Mm-hmm.
But I will say, I think what'shelped me with that is I mentor
(10:37):
a lot of young lawyers.
So part of my job I was managingpartner of the New York office
in my last firm.
I'm also the founding partner inthe New York office here, and
also manage it now and work withyoung lawyers and I also young
lawyers on the teams that Ileave.
So I have had a lot of practiceworking with young adults and
(11:01):
you have to respect them.
Absolutely have to respect them.
And I also think you have totrust the process.
You did the job, you did thebest job that you could do.
You gave them the skills.
And you know, Carly and I, and Italk to my girls all the time,
we are so lucky.
We talk every day virtually, andI see them a lot as well.
(11:24):
And Carly and I were talkingabout.
The fact that sometimes you haveto, even though you know someone
is heading towards maybe a baddecision or a decision you
wouldn't make as the parent tosome degree, you have to have
enough faith to say that's theirmistake.
(11:46):
That's their mistake to make.
And I think about the mistakes,you know, finger quote, mistakes
that I've made in my life, andthose have been my best
teachers.
So why would we deprive ourchildren of what could truly be
their best teacher now?
Yeah.
I know there are extremesituations where there might be
(12:08):
a health issue or a threat ofphysical or emotional harm.
Mm-hmm.
And I don't miss words with mygirls.
I'm very direct.
Mm-hmm.
I try to, even when I am tryingto maybe guide them in a certain
direction or they've come to meand I can see that they really
don't know how they are going tocome down on an issue.
(12:34):
Mm-hmm.
I, I try to end with, I trustyou, I know you've thought about
this long and hard, and I knowyou'll make the right decision
for you, and then just.
Kind of have my peace with it,because what can you do that's
so hard?
But think about like, did youteach your girls how to drive?
(12:56):
Yes.
Okay.
Yep.
Wasn't that hard.
Oh yeah.
Letting them, letting them gooff in the car when they got
their license.
'cause you knew they reallydidn't know how to drive.
They knew enough to pass thetest.
Right, right.
Yeah.
So I, at that point, I made ita, a practice for myself.
(13:17):
I'm gonna say one prayer a dayin the morning for everyone's
physical safety.
And then I literally need togive it over because Yeah.
It, it's, it's not productive.
It's not doing anyone any good.
If I was sitting around anervous wreck thinking, oh my
gosh, what are they doing in theco, you know?
(13:39):
Right, right, right.
So, yeah.
Say one offer, one up to heavenfor everyone to be safe every
day.
And then I think you have to letit go.
Yeah, for sure.
You just have to, it's.
As I've gotten more mature, Iknow, there's things I can
control.
There's things I can't let itgo, so, yeah.
Yeah.
But it's tough.
(13:59):
I think.
So where are your girls?
My girls live within an hour ofme.
So, every morning we have atext, a family text.
Good morning.
Love you.
You know, so, oh, that's sosweet.
Yeah.
We schedule one time a month tohave dinner together.
Like all of us, like onedaughter's married, one daughter
has a partner.
So, you know, we all, the six ofus get together to do something
(14:23):
each month, so we know we havethat.
So it's, it is nice to have themnearby, but there's been, you
know, situations where.
Let go and let God, becauseliterally I can't fix it.
I think that's the biggest thingis like trying to fix for them.
That's not my job anymore.
No, I mean, again, your job isreally important and I, I think
(14:45):
sometimes our job as parentingadults may even be more
important because what ourchildren are facing, the
consequences are so much bigger,you know?
My mother-in-law used to say.
Little children, littleproblems, big children, big
problems.
I mean, nothing so true, right.
Has been said.
So we might not be working inthe office every day.
(15:09):
We we're working remote.
So working remote has itschallenges, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So how do we make thatconnection when we're not there
every single day?
And even though we're all in thesame city and, you know, in
walking distance, I may notnecessarily be eyeballing
everybody every day.
Mm-hmm.
Which, you know, is, is animportant part of knowing how
(15:30):
people are doing.
Right.
So, you know, I'm grateful.
And I think, you know, it soundslike you're in a similar
situation.
Just be so grateful that thoselines of communication are, are
open.
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, I just think backone generation to my mom.
I, I didn't necessarily feelclose to my mom, probably
(15:53):
because I was one of sevenchildren.
I was one of the youngest of theseven children.
I was number six.
And my mom was a single mother.
Oh.
For much of my growing up.
Wow.
So I really, really didn't feelall that connected.
I didn't really feel like I knewher that well or that she knew
(16:15):
me.
Mm-hmm.
And you know, actually Carly andI were talking last night and
she said, mom, you healed thatin one generation.
You healed.
That disconnect.
And I thought, wow, what acompliment to hear from my adult
daughter and True, true.
Yeah.
(16:35):
That is amazing.
Did you consciously do that ordid you just, that just happened
because of how you found yourcourage maybe?
Yeah, in all candor.
Becoming a mother, and I was ayoung mother, certainly by
today's standards.
I was, I was a young mother andit was really the first thing I
had ever done in my life thatmade me feel important.
(16:57):
I felt connected, I was good atit.
I just embraced being a motherso much and committed myself.
'cause I, I, I probably havenever felt good about myself.
Ever in my life until I hadCarly and very shortly after I
(17:19):
was plotting how, I wanna haveanother one because I am
enjoying this and I'm so happy.
Mm-hmm.
And then sure enough, you know,Courtney came around 14 months
later and I think that just mademe extremely committed mm-hmm.
To the process.
Mm-hmm.
I am going to.
(17:40):
Do everything I can.
I'm going to commit every singleday of my life to loving these
girls, raising these girls, anddoing what I can.
And that's why I went back tolaw school.
I wanted Carly to be proud ofme.
So in between.
I mean, I had a job.
It was okay.
(18:00):
But I knew I was smart and Iknew I should have been in the
Eagles.
Right?
Yep.
You knew you were an eagle, notthe, not the Bluebirds or the
sparrows.
And I took the LSAT when I wassix months pregnant with
Courtney.
Oh my gosh.
That is amazing.
Yeah, it was just kind of meantto be.
(18:20):
And really much of the successthat I've had in my adult life,
I attribute directly to mychildren inspiring me to go
there.
Mm hmm.
I love that.
I didn't realize you had gone tolaw school and then I thought
you just were a lawyer first, sothat, that is on top of having
children.
I know that that's not an easything to do anyway, but then
(18:43):
having the children, but havingthat goal of showing your
daughters, what they can do too,really.
Yes.,, I was sworn into the NewYork bar on Courtney's fifth
birthday.
Love it.
So it was, it was just such anamazing moment right.
For you right there.
And, and they, you know, andthey've seen me, they've seen me
(19:05):
work, work really hard.
It's, this is not an easy lifethat we chose, but mm-hmm.
I.
I am at peace with it and I, Ienjoy it and I especially enjoy
kind of my role as professionalmother to a lot of, a lot of
younger lawyers, and that's beenreally good for me as well.
That's great.
I love that.
(19:26):
So how has becoming agrandmother changed, your
relationship with yourdaughters?
Yeah, that's a great question.
It's a shame in our worldbecause grandmother is almost a
pejorative word.
And, and I, you know, and Ithink back on it, I loved my
grandmother shows my favoriteperson in the entire world until
(19:47):
my children were born.
Mm-hmm.
So I will say there was someprobably irrational I don't know
how I feel about this.
Probably the word grandmothermore than anything, but so happy
for Carly and so to see her sohappy and see her really having
a very similar experience that Ihad with my girls.
(20:11):
Mm-hmm.
She's so happy.
Never seen her.
So happy.
So I love it.
And I, and obviously I love.
The girls, they're wonderful.
Blake and Gemma, and they arethree and two.
And we have so much fun.
And usually you know, I'll, I'llwatch them.
They'll come stay with me at myapartment when they have
something, you know, and Carlyand Phil have something to do.
(20:33):
Yeah.
Wedding or whatever.
In fact, I watched Blake for aweek when they went to Europe
when she was.
Maybe seven months old.
And when Carly came back, shewas pregnant with, with Gemma.
So, very productive trip.
Yes, you're welcome.
Yeah, exactly.
And I, you know, I, I was ableto be there.
(20:54):
In fact, when, when Blake wastiny.
Until they moved to their, theircurrent apartment.
So maybe, probably Blake's firstyear.
I lived down the street fromthem.
I literally lived one blockaway.
Nice.
So I would walk there everymorning when I was going to the
office.
Drop off my dog.
(21:14):
The nanny would watch Blake andmy dog.
And then when I came back atnight, I would, I would pick up
Jacks and see Blake.
So that was really nice foreverybody because I was able to
be, you know, Johnny on the spotwhen they needed somebody.
Right, right there.
Yeah.
It's amazing that, that's socool.
I love that.
(21:35):
So your book is called.
Daughter lessons.
Yeah.
I have it right here, daughter.
I have, yeah.
Tell us some things marked init, and Yeah.
Tell us about how that allstarted.
Yeah.
I, I started, well, I, I am anessay writer.
I, I would say that's the formatof writing that I like the best.
(21:55):
And I had written a lot ofessays over the course of time.
I have a website, lessons.com.
And I just, you know, how, howdid I start out writing these
essays?
Well, I was getting to a pointwhere I knew that the girls
would not be living with meanymore.
Mm-hmm.
(22:16):
And then, you know, the moreominous thought is that, well,
although I'd like to, I'mprobably not gonna live forever.
You know, we have a limitednumber of days on the earth, and
I thought so.
They're not only gonna not bewith me, I'm not gonna be with
them.
Mm-hmm.
And I want them to know me.
(22:39):
I want them to maybe learn someof the lessons that I learned in
my life, not only from raisingthem or lessons that I'm giving
to them, but also lessons Ilearned being a daughter.
Sure.
And, you know, just theforgiveness that is often
required in any familyrelationship no matter how close
(23:01):
you are.
So I got up one morning, it wasOctober 1st, and every single
day for a month, I wrote down alesson for the girls.
Not, not extremely, like you'llsee.
They're very short.
Very short to the point, and Itry to.
Give them a sense of what it waslike in, in my life, some of the
(23:24):
things that happened in my lifeand how, you know, how they can
really, you can really reinventyourself at, at any age and any
stage, and just choose to behappy.
There's so much happiness to behad out there if we look for it.
Mm-hmm.
And if we do it.
(23:45):
So that's, that's where itstarted from and it just kind of
took on a life of its own andit's been such a blessing for
me.
I've enjoyed it.
I've enjoyed people who I'venever met before.
Reading the book and reachingout to me saying, I loved your
book, and this is what I likeabout it.
And people that I do know whoare close to me, one of my best
(24:08):
friends, Lynn.
Her mother is in her ninetiesand she said, I keep your book
by my bed.
And I pick it up and I read justone little lesson and it makes
me feel better.
And you know that, I mean, nothow can that do anything but
make you feel really good aboutyourself.
Yeah.
That's why people write booksthey wanna share and they wanna
(24:29):
help other people and yes.
That's what you're doing.
That is how I feel.
I just want other mothers tofeel, I mean, I so identified
with being a mom and, and that'snot unusual.
Mm-hmm.
That's how I think most of usare.
'cause it's the best thing, bestjob we ever had.
Right.
But the day comes when you'regonna get fired or at least you
(24:51):
feel like you're getting firedfrom the best job you ever had.
And that's scary for people.
Yeah.
But I want people to know itdoesn't have to be that way.
And there's, there's so manygood times ahead.
You know, I just, I did, I wason, on my phone with Carly.
I had my headphones in.
I was walking to Bloomingdale'slast night, and we had such an
(25:13):
amazing conversation and shesaid, mom, we're so lucky.
And I thought, yeah, we are.
Yes, we are.
You know, and we can keep itgoing for as long as we choose.
Yeah.
Oh my goodness.
So many good lessons there.
So many good messages too.
I love that.
So what do you see ahead, do youthink you want to write more or
(25:36):
what's going on?
Sure.
I do write, I am on LinkedIn andI do post on the practice of law
and the practice of life.
So I, I do write I write a lotof light things'cause I try to
look for the lightness, but I dowrite about serious things as
well.
(25:56):
In fact I'm looking out a windowhere to my right.
And that building that is rightacross the street was the the
scene of the most recent massshooting.
In New York City just before theone that unfortunately happened
in Minnesota, which broke myheart.
(26:18):
And I wrote about that.
I wrote about that on LinkedInand it, my posts certainly had
quite a bit of reach there.
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, the, the messagethere was, and I, I titled it,
are you okay?
Because as I.
(26:38):
You know, that happened.
Luckily, we were all fine.
We had all just left the office.
We have a small office.
We're growing, so we all tend toleave at the same time.
We check in each other.
I mean, New York is, is not theeasiest place to be.
So we're all concerned aboutsafety, always.
Sure.
So.
I had just walked home to myapartment.
(27:01):
I walked to work every day and Ijust walked into my apartment
and one of the associates, Dannysaid, are you home?
There's a shooting near ourbuilding.
So that was all he knew.
So it was, we were all checkingin with each other.
Then as my wider circle, youknow, this was hitting the news.
(27:23):
I got a lot of texts.
Are you okay?
Are you okay?
And, you know, the whole gist ofmy words were, as long as our
babies have to learn how to hideunder a desk to save themselves
from someone trying to murderthem at school, and as long as,
(27:47):
you know, people are allowed tobuy automatic weapons mm-hmm.
We, none of us are.
Okay.
None of us are, okay, this needsto stop.
I wish I knew an answer.
I so wish I knew an answer, butsometimes just writing the
question, a lot of peopleconnected with what I wrote
(28:12):
because.
We don't know what to do.
Mm-hmm.
And the unfortunate thing isthis is becoming so commonplace.
We're going through this cycleof outrage, devastation, wanting
to do something, and thennumbness.
(28:33):
Because nothing is, you know, noone's listening, right?
There's nobody listening topeople who are outraged by this.
It's interesting.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
I do write on LinkedIn.
I, earlier in this year the weekbefore Mother's Day, I was a
guest columnist.
For the Assi Institute and wroteabout motherhood every day, and
(28:54):
then I parallel posted those onmy website.
So, okay.
I do like to write and you knowwhen maybe at another time when
I have more time to sit down andwrite, I, I have like two, two
fiction works.
I have multiple chapters done,but you know, as lawyers, we
(29:16):
don't have a lot of time toSure.
To actually like bang out abook.
I wish those, yeah, yeah.
Do you think you'll retire soonfrom being a lawyer or.
I don't, I'm just curious.
No, I really enjoy it and Ihave, I'm not there.
I'm not quite there.
Yeah, that's good.
Age, age wise or stage wise, so,yeah.
(29:37):
Okay.
I was, I always, that's curiousto me.
Yeah.
Because it's such a hard job orYeah, you're so busy with so
many different, I don't what, Iwanna say lawyering, but I don't
think that's the right word.
No, no.
Lawyering is exactly right.
I am in litigation, I lead oneof the, the, probably the
(29:59):
biggest gist of my job is I leadlitigation teams.
So there are, you know, certainlitigations they call mass tort.
So companies get sued, not justin one lawsuit.
They get sued in.
Multiple lawsuits.
So I work with those companiesand work with their lawyers to
(30:20):
get ready for trials and I alsodo a lot of resolution work, so
I do negotiations.
It's, it's brisk.
I mean, there's no doubt aboutit, but I enjoy it.
And, and like I said, I amenjoying the, role of working
with younger lawyers and, andhelping them have the confidence
to keep going and keep their eyeon one, the profession that they
(30:45):
chose, but also having apersonal life that is extremely
important.
And it's easy for people in thisprofession, probably in the
medical profession as well.
To think that what you do is whoyou are.
Mm-hmm.
And that's just so not true.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's a whole other topicthat we could get into, but in
(31:08):
the interest of time.
Yeah.
So where would you like peopleto go?
I know you, you said youmentioned your website.
Do you wanna say that again sopeople can find you if, yeah.
Daughter lessons.com.
I have a lot of posts aboutmotherhood and they're, I'll say
pretty fun and pretty.
And my, my book is onamazon.com.
You can get it there and I'mthinking maybe I will read a
(31:32):
short blurb from my book.
Yes, please.
That would be perfect.
And actually I have one called.
Sweet goodbyes and each of myentries is it begins with a
quote, and this one is fromWinnie the Pooh.
How lucky I am to have somethingthat makes saying goodbye so
(31:52):
hard.
Courtney left today and won't behome again until Christmas.
We had fun during her off seasonfrom the Dayton Ballet, but it
went way too fast.
Like all the time I spend withmy girls.
Perhaps the hardest part ofbeing a parent is being
separated from your children asthey grow up and often away.
(32:13):
Thank God for the modernconveniences of cell phone,
texting, and Skype, which now wewould say Zoom.
They really do make it easier tostay in touch, but technology
can't replace being with someonein person.
There is something sacred insharing space, breathing the
same air, just being together.
It was with great joy that Idiscovered Courtney left her
(32:36):
favorite water bottle and had toreturn for it before hitting the
road with her dad.
At least when she left thesecond time, I remembered to
grab a picture of her and peanutsharing one final snuggle.
No goodbyes are never easy, butthey are sweet when we know that
we send our children out intothe world armed with love and
(32:56):
our faith in them.
I love that.
An example of, one of my essaysthat you can find in daughter
lessons.
Wonderful.
Wonderful.
Well, I think we're gonna end itthere, Bernadette, thank you so
much for joining me today.
Good luck in your futureendeavors, and we'll put the
links to your website in ourshow notes so people can go and
(33:19):
grab that and read more of thosewonderful words.
Great.
Thank you.
Take good care, Kim.
Thank you for listening toMidlife with Courage.
If you enjoyed this episode,please leave me a review or even
better send a link to a friend.
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