In this episode of Balance Not Burnout, host Mark Williams talks with his former high school English teacher James Thompson. Over the course of their 40-year friendship, Thompson has reinvented his career multiple times, going from teacher to FBI agent to EPA investigator and eventually actor.
He discusses his varied career path and experiences in law enforcement, as well as how he has navigated burnout through meditation, exercise, and pursuing new hobbies. Thompson also offers advice to his younger self about exploring multiple interests and talents rather than limiting oneself to one career. The episode provides insight into Thompson's unconventional journey across different fields and his approach to continually finding new passions and challenges.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Mark Williams (00:07):
You're listening to balance, not burnout, a
podcast helping leaders rethinkthe speed of their business. And
I'm your host Mark Williams.
Join me as I explore the powerof a more intentional, balanced
approach to leadership. Thanksfor listening.
Hey, everybody, welcome tobalance not burnout episode
(00:28):
nine. And today, this is areally special guest for me. In
fact, someone I have known forover 40 years, my sophomore year
in high school, one of myfavorite people in the world. My
English teacher, my sophomorehigh school English teacher, Mr.
(00:48):
James Thompson. And before Itell you, and before we get
James on, let me share a littlebit about his background. So
yes, I have known him for 40years as my English teacher
taught me the love of writinggot me writing poetry and all
kinds of stuff, not onlyteaching, James left the
teaching world to become an FBIagent. And then he left the FBI
(01:12):
to work for the EPA. And he alsowrites greeting cards, does a
lot of writing has a few books,and it does TV commercials, and
I believe has done a commercialfor an insurance company sort of
around that circle all out. Soplease help me in welcoming Mr.
James Thompson.
Unknown (01:29):
Thank you, Mark. It's really good to see you again. I
can't believe it's been 40years. Wow, that we've known
each other.
Mark Williams (01:35):
It is hard to believe that the 80s was 40
years ago. Correct?
Unknown (01:40):
You look good. You look great. Yes, do you?
Mark Williams (01:44):
But we always kick off the episode with our
first question. Sure. It's aSaturday or Sunday morning, you
have no responsibilities, youcan do what you'd like, be with
whomever you'd like, describefor us the perfect Saturday
morning.
Unknown (02:01):
To be honest, were you the perfect Saturday morning for
me, my wife and I, we are emptynesters now, so my son gonna
have one child, he's gonna be30. In July. He's out the house.
He's in Brooklyn. So it's justthe two of us. My wife is semi
retired. But she works two daysa week. But I'm retired. So for
us, it stayed at home, talking,having conversations, you know,
(02:22):
I do all the cooking in thehouse now because she didn't
want to cook. And so I took thatabout 15 years ago. That's
another story. Basically, we'reat the point now, where we
realize it and I at this point,everything I like should be
simple. No stress. We've beenmarried 34 years,
congratulations. No arguments,no fights, we're not going
anywhere, no divorces, weappreciate each other. We
(02:44):
respect each other. But mainlywe respect each other's place. I
mean, I'm the man. She's awoman. I don't try to take her
place. She doesn't take myplace. We split everything 5050
down the middle. It's worthparenting. Taking care of the
household. I think that balanceis very effective for both of
us. It gives her something tofeel good about. And it gives me
(03:05):
something to feel good about. Soit's not a 6040 relationship on
that set. I'm not saying it's aman's world do what I say. I
bounce everything off and Ibounce things back. And because
we started out as we fell inlove, we also became friends. I
think that's important. She alsois my friend. And I trust her
with my life because she is mywife. She's been my wife. And as
(03:26):
you know, this is my secondmarriage. I was married before
when you and I met. And that's awhole different story. But
Mark Williams (03:32):
yeah, I get that.
So Saturday morning, what wouldthe two of you do?
Unknown (03:37):
We have different tastes in movies. That's to tell
you that we have differenttastes and films and movies. So
I'm a Western. I watched Westernall day long. She does not like
restaurant, she likes to watchtennis. So she has to have the
Tennis Channel. And I have tohave the Western channel. So I'm
watching Gunsmoke and rawhideand she's watching Venus and
Serena play tennis. Fantastic.
Mark Williams (03:58):
Love it. Well, let's talk a little bit about
about your background. I knowyou've written a book about your
hometown, in Alabama, whatbrought you to Georgia? What got
you into teaching? And thenprobably next question would be
What got you out of teaching?
Unknown (04:12):
Okay, easy question. So I went to Troy. At that time, it
was Troy State University. It'snow called Troy University from
1972 to 1976. I went to schoolthere and I majored in English.
First, I got a BS in English andmaths teachers tried to keep me
interested in so why don't youstay in and get a masters? I
really was kind of brought upbut I stayed and got a master's
(04:35):
and of course in they said, Whydon't you stay to get a PhD? And
I'm like, No, I'm done. Igraduated in 1976, with a BS in
English and then 79 with amaster's in English. So in 1980,
my wife and I got married, andshe was living in Atlanta, and I
was living in Dothan at thetime. So I moved to Atlanta to
be with her. And I did not havea job when I got to Atlanta. I
(04:58):
have a master's in English but Ididn't have a job. So the funny
thing is, I heard thatsubstitute teachers were making
$85 a day. So I went down to thespot men of Georgia excitation
department to get a substituteteacher job. And I fill out the
application, I gave it to thelady. And she said, let me look
at your application before Igive it to the superintendent.
She said, You have a master's inEnglish. I go, yeah, she's a you
(05:21):
a black man with a master's inEnglish. Yeah. She's I think the
superintendent would want totalk to you. I'm like, What's
the big deal? I didn't reallyunderstand what the big deal
was. Sure. Lieutenant came out,looked at my application. He
said, You're a black man with amaster's degree in English. So
I'm like, yeah. can pick anyschool that you want? But what
do you mean? He says, we don'twe have a shortage of men,
(05:43):
teaching English, especiallyblack men. So he gave me four
schools to look at, I looked atfour schools, and we settled on
Henderson High School. And asyou know, the whole four years I
was there. I was the only blackmale teacher.
Mark Williams (05:56):
Yeah, and I'll even add to that, when I first
started high school in 1983 orfour, there were maybe 10 or 15
Black students in total atHenderson high school, out of
1400 kids. That changed. It didchange rapidly throughout my
high school education. But yeah,when I first started, there was
(06:19):
not a very large blackcommunity. Were surrounding
Henderson High School, for sure.
Unknown (06:23):
That is correct. Yeah.
But I have to tell you, andlisten was a dream job. For me.
I was a rookie, I did not knowwhat I was gonna get into. But
for the four years I was there.
I had a ball as some of the beststudents, we didn't have
discipline problems. And therewas no drugs. There were no
girls. Oh, no. Nice. I had goodstudents. I had good kids. And I
could
Mark Williams (06:43):
tell you, like, I can tell you a few stories
offline. But there was a littlebit of that, but not a lot for
sure.
Unknown (06:49):
I as a teacher, I never saw I didn't see that me. And I
as you know, I had a policy inmy classroom. I would not feel
any student who came to classand try it, if you try, would
not feel any student out there.
There one student in four years,because this guy came to class
and put his head on the desk andwent to sleep. Of course, he
fought. And he blamed me. AndI'm saying, Well, you want to
(07:13):
sleep for the whole year. Butno, I really love teaching. It
was a lot of fun. I hated toleave when I left. But we'll get
into why I left a bit later.
Mark Williams (07:23):
But I was gonna ask you Do you mind me asking?
So you made a very big leap fromteaching to the FBI, and I can't
think of something that would betotally opposite. Like who
woulda guessed that you go fromteaching high school English to
becoming an FBI agent carrying agun? Well,
Unknown (07:39):
let me tell you how that happened. Exactly. So
you're number four teachingEnglish. I was beginning to
experience burnout. I love thekids. I love the job. The pay
was very low. And I felt likethey were paying a lot of
things. I mean, they had mecoaching on eighth grade track.
They had me doing bus duty tohave you doing lunchroom duty
extra duties that had nothing todo with teaching just about
(08:02):
experiencing burnout. Plus atnight as an English teacher, you
work eight hours a day you gradepapers for eight hours at night.
So I was working 16 hours a day.
Really? Yeah. So a close friendof mine. He said, Why don't you
go and apply for the FBI. I justthought the FBI is looking for
new people. He was beingsarcastic. Because I'm 29 years
old at the time, and I said, Iwon't work for the FBI. Are you
(08:23):
kidding me? I used to go down,interview the FBI take all the
test. If you don't like it, youcan turn the job down. I'm like,
Oh, that makes sense. So I wentdown. I took all the tests with
FES like logical test, writtentest, really didn't think about
it. So eight months went by, andI really forgot all about it. So
I'm teaching one day in classand a guy knocked to my window
(08:44):
said, Hey, there's a telephonefor you. Why don't you get the
telephone and I keep the classwhere you get the telephone. I
think it was an emergency.
Somebody had died in my family.
So I go to the phone. The guysays this is so and so with the
FBI. You pass all of the tests.
We want you to come to work forus. And I said, yeah, very
funny. April Fool's. This is notan April Fool's joke. This is
(09:06):
FBI. You did pass the test. Andwe offer you a two week window
to show up. But you we want youto come work for something like
well, I'm an English teacher. Ihave a contract. I can't just
walk out and leave. He said,Well, you got two weeks. So I
went in to talk to my principal,Mr. Frank Campbell and said,
Hey, this is a dilemma and Ijust got a call from the FBI.
They offered me a job. I have acontract. What do you think I
(09:28):
should do? I never thought thatthe camera liked me. He said,
Mr. Thompson. This is anopportunity of a lifetime. He
said, I will use your age youngman, I would take this job. What
I'm going to do for you is I'mgoing to hold your job for you.
If you get that you don't likeit. You come back I keep your
job. Wow. Fantastic, greatteacher. We hate to lose you.
(09:48):
And I hate to say it but Istarted choir by him because
then I realized he did like
Mark Williams (09:53):
Yeah, and I will emphasize a gentle giant. You
have always been an fantastic Inthe classroom, which is one of
the reasons why we stayed intouch, always just a wonderful,
wonderful temperament in theclassroom, and really encouraged
people to find, to findsomething inside of them to
write about, which was justwonderful. And that started my
(10:14):
love of writing. I also knowthat you wrote greeting cards,
or maybe still do. So youdecided to go to the FBI. And
what did you do there?
Unknown (10:24):
I tell you what, that was the scariest decision of my
life. Because when I leftteaching, I had a secure job. It
was a low paying job, but asecure job. I knew I was gonna
be teaching for a long time, getto the FBI and the FBI, I found
out that they had a policy.
First of all, there were 40people in my initial class,
three black men, I was one ofthree black men, there was no
(10:45):
black female, there were womenwith no black females. So they
had a policy. If you failed anytwo tests with 85 or below, you
automatically kicked out. Andthat's a written test. Wow,
that's a physical fitness testas a firearms test, whatever
testing was, you feel any totest with 8080 below 85, you
automatically kicked out. Sothat was built in stress. Now
(11:08):
I'm sweating. I use Oh, I'venever shot a gun in my life
never had anything to do withlaw enforcement running five
miles a day. So the stress forme was enormous. And I needed a
lot of help. So I partnered withpeople in the class, you know,
people who knew better more thanI did. People knew how to shoot
a gun and things like this. Andwe did mutual mentoring. They
taught me what they knew. And Itold them what I do about
(11:31):
writing. And that's basicallyhow I got through a lot of
prayer.
Mark Williams (11:38):
And how long were you an FBI agent for
Unknown (11:41):
the training course to be an FBI? As you know, it's
four months longer. 16 weeksstraight? It's four months. It's
in Quantico, Virginia. I gotinto the FBI marks at the 1984.
And I stayed until June 1989. SoI spent five years with the
first office was Houston, thenit was New York City, which I
did not like.
Mark Williams (12:02):
Let's talk about that a little bit. So balance,
right. So first of all,interesting career choice, FBI.
How did your wife feel about it?
And how did you balance what youwere doing during the day, and
then come home and spend timewith your family at night?
That's an interesting, you know,I just have a I have a desk job.
So for me, not quite asstressful I'm sure as being in
(12:22):
the FBI. So I'm curious as tohow that was at home.
Unknown (12:26):
Well, this is a very complicated acid position. Yes
to Question. I told you, I wasgonna be completely honest, I
have to be honest. You remember,I was told I was married before.
I got married in 1981 1984. I'vebeen married for years to my
then wife. Then I went into theFBI. Well, unfortunately, while
I was gone, my wife got involvedin somebody else with somebody
(12:48):
else. So that time I finished myFBI training on marriage to
pretty much all Yeah, and shedidn't want to resume that with
me. So the whole time I was inHouston, she never came to
Houston, I wanted us to bymyself. We were going through a
divorce at that time. So oncethe divorce became final, and
October of 85. We never reallysaw each other again. So from
(13:10):
then on, I was single. So I hadnobody wanted to come home to
other than my empty apartment.
And it was very difficult, youknow, because it took me two
years to get over the rejectionof a divorce. Sure.
Mark Williams (13:22):
But even then, I'm curious how, how even a
single individual in a town yetyou didn't grow up in obviously
you don't know a lot of people.
You come home, you're in a whatI would submit probably as a
pretty high stress job. How doyou just how do you balance that
world? How did you relax? Well,
Unknown (13:39):
again, honestly, I said, when I got to Houston,
Texas in 1984, gentlemen, Ithought I had died and gone to
heaven. Let me explain. I didn'tlike Houston when I first got
there, because I thought it wasa country town. And I realized
it was the fourth largest cityin America. The women to men
ratio was 12 to one. This goes,I answer. Just goes we're
(14:02):
everywhere. So after work, we goto the discos, nightclubs and
whatever, meet people and itbecame a lot of fun. So when I
got transferred from Houston toNew York, two years later, I
cried like a baby. So I don'twant to go to a brand friendly
town. And not only the FBI wasmy family, I had a lot of FBI
(14:23):
agents that worked on my squad.
We were family, we spend timetogether at work, and
afterwards, we had house partiescookouts barbecues, they were my
adoptive family. Yeah.
Mark Williams (14:34):
And then you made a decision to go to the EPA.
What was behind that decision?
Unknown (14:39):
Well, first of all, I get transferred to New York City
to December of 86. Chicken likea baby, I get to New York City
and I'm like, I'm from Alabama.
What am I doing in New YorkCity? I get to New York. It is
just like I thought it was itwas a crazy place. Drugs. AIDS
was coming out now. announcementcame on the radio to save New
York City has 500,000 unreportedcases of 876. So then I just
(15:02):
wrestle as if they have 500,000reported cases of AIDS. I mean
reported cases of AIDS, I mean,so rather than dating, I went
out and got cable TV, and Ipretty much stayed home and
watched cable TV I was afraid todate, because you can't look at
a person till they have AIDS.
(15:24):
Luckily, I met a young man whosefraternity brother worked for
IBM. I mean, he worked for Xeroxat the time, and he told me I
work with this young lady. Ithink you guys will like us. And
I want to introduce you to her.
And I said, I don't ever want tomeet him because I just went
through a divorce. I'm reallynot interested. Yeah. And this
one over like man was he kepttelling me about this young
lady. So finally, we met. Andthat's the later marriage now.
Mark Williams (15:48):
Fantastic. And Was she a reason why you went to
the EPA? Like, like, what's thatdecision?
Unknown (15:53):
A reason I went to the EPA was very honest with I did
not like New York City. I didn'tlike the crime. I didn't like
the traffic. I didn't like thecold weather. I am not a native
New Yorker and the bright lightsdid nothing for me. I did not
like living and working in NewYork City. So as soon as I got
an opportunity to get out, Idid. And luckily, I had a friend
who was recruited for the FBI.
He went to recruitment fair. Andright next to his recruitment
(16:15):
desk, was recruited from theEPA. It just had a conversation.
And he said, Hey, I got a friendwho really wants to leave the
FBI. Would you mind talking tohim? And they said, Sure. So I
interview over the phone, EPA,and Dallas. They hired me over
the telephone. Wow, for a jobover the phone without ever
seeing anybody. So I gave mynotice to the FBI and I went to
(16:36):
Dallas to work for the EPA, butnot as a criminal investigator.
I went as a civil investigator,they, they people push it,
sitting at the desk doing paperviolations. I didn't even know
EPA had a criminal division aswell. I got there. Yeah. Well,
so five months later, I get acall from the Criminal Division,
which I didn't know they havedownstairs and he invited me
(16:56):
down to talk to me and the guysays, Hey, I used to hurt the
city used to work for the FBI.
But yeah. He said, Do you wantto get your gun and you call
back? I know what you're talkingabout. He says, we have a
criminal division of EPA. If youcome to work for us, you get to
go back in your car, like what?
Now I'm excited. And he said, wejust had a vacancy. So stupid
me. I go, Well, why? Why do youhave a vacancy in a criminal
(17:20):
department? And everybody gotquiet. And everybody's looking
down? I go, what's the problem?
He said, Well, the guy that hadthe job for you, you got shot
two days ago. Thank you. I saidwhat happened? He was walking
across the parking lot. You justserve a subpoena. a mugger
walked up to him, didn't knowwho he was asking for his money,
a fight ensued. The mug shot himand killed him that created the
(17:43):
vacancy for the job I took.
Well, now. Welcome to a new job.
Somebody that a couple weeksearly. Incredible. That blew me
away. Yeah. Because then Irealized you can actually get
killed on this job. Wow.
Mark Williams (17:57):
So some advice for those. This is going to come
from left field. But I thinkyou'll understand why I'm saying
I'm asking it. You have followedyour passions your entire
career, you've reinventedyourself several times. If
you're a young, if you'retalking to a 29 year old, 27
year old 26 year old JimThompson, what advice can you
give someone who's listeningthat, that maybe he's in
(18:20):
something they're not they don'tlike to do? Maybe they have some
hobbies or some passions? How doyou reinvent yourself? And how
do you follow your passions?
Because you've done thatextremely well?
Unknown (18:27):
I think that's a good question. This is what I think I
think. And I told him, I gave myson this advice. I think a lot
of people have been taught tobelieve they can only do one
thing. In other words, you canonly be an FBI agent. You can
only be an English teacher. ButI think you can do multiple
things. I think first of all,you have multiple answers. I
think you can do not just both,I think you can do all know that
(18:48):
I think you can do and well, soI didn't realize I have a knack
for FBI because I wasn't trying.
Nobody. My family was in lawenforcement. I was at first. So
when I get into FBI, I'mthinking how can I be a good FBI
agent? Well, I studied hard andlisten, I learned I watch
people. I didn't pull my gun andshoot every person I saw. The
whole time I was in the FBI, thewhole my whole 23 year career as
(19:09):
a federal agent. I do my GM onetime. That was in the first six
months. I never do it. Oh, 22years. Wow, never had to do
that. So I would tell the personforget about the fear, but get
about the thought that you onlyneed to do one thing. My son was
a graphic designer, artdirector, right? He's also a
writer. He's also a producer.
(19:30):
And I told him, You can do allthat. And you can do it well. So
like me, he's doing severaldifferent things. But he loves
it. Yeah. So don't tie yourselfto ones where you can have more
than one dream. Sometimes youhave to find out your own dream,
but I think it's okay. You cando that. What got you into
acting? Well, that's anotherstory. So I'm at the EPA in
(19:50):
Philadelphia, I'm working forthe EPA. I'm really happy. So
I'm watching TV one night andI'll see this commercial
pinball. That's the way that Iknow that guy. That guy works
for the EPA. it. So I go back towork the next day and I say, How
did you get into acting? Hesaid, Well, you know, I just
went down to the local castingoffice. You know what, I took a
couple of courses, you know, andI and next thing you know, I'm
(20:11):
acting, he said, You can do ittoo. I'm like, Yeah, but I
don't, I don't have anyexperience. In acting. He said,
well just go out and do somebreathing. Next day, I went
down, stood in a line, it had tobe 200 people in line to read
for commercial. So I gotdiscouraged and said, I want to
get out of that. I'm not stayingtuned to be. One guy said, Well,
you already hear Jay 50% ofsuccess is showing up. You
(20:33):
already here. might as wellstay. I stay when my time came
to read. They gave me some copyto read. I read it. They said, I
really liked your voice. Wethink you make a good act. We
got to send you out on auditiontomorrow. So it was a local show
being shot in Philadelphia. Itwas a T It was a cop show. And I
went out and auditioned for andI actually got a rope. And I was
(20:57):
acting right across from AndreBrown, the black actor who just
recently passed. Yeah, so we'vedone that. And, and, and almost.
So my first acting job wasstanding across from him. It was
so funny. Because when they saidcut, he won't go to me. He kept
looking. And he said, he stuckout his hand. He said, Hi, I'm
Andre Brock. Do we know eachother we met before? And I just
(21:17):
felt like now we know I'm doingsomething we never met. I was
blown away. He thought herecognized me. And for me, that
was it. That's all I needed.
That was the push I needed.
Describe
Mark Williams (21:31):
for folks how you handled and you've had burnout
several times, any tactics toovercome burnout. How do you how
do you re motivate yourself tomove on to something else?
Unknown (21:43):
Well, I gotta be honest, we've got cemetech. The
first first thing I do is Ibelieve in meditation. I
meditate a lot. I actually gointo a room with all the lights
off, no music plan, I just sitthere. And I meditate. And while
I'm meditating, I'm thinking andI'm also praying about what my
end goal is, what do I want toget out of this acting job, a
(22:06):
teaching job? Job? What's myangle? So I visualize what it is
I'm looking for. I try to keepmy eyes on the prize. And for
me, that helps a lot tovisualize where you're going.
Because if you don't know whereyou're going, it's like you just
taking a planned trip. So I haveto know where I'm going. I did
not believe I know I was gonnabe an FBI federal agent for 23
(22:26):
years. I think I'd be kicked outin the fourth year. I don't
think I will say. But I realizedthat the average people that FBI
just like me to haveinsecurities, that extroverts
introverts and as extrovertedintroverts like I am, I consider
myself an extroverted introvert.
I really am an introvert, but Ican't be an extrovert, if I want
to be. So another thing isexercise. I won't go into the
(22:49):
FBI. I did not run five miles aday, I didn't lift weights. And
I said, when I get out of theFBI, I'm never going to exercise
a day in my life, because it'stoo much. Now I went for miles
every morning, I'd be 70 yearsold. So. So exercise, I'm still
working out, because exercise isa part of my life. And my
mother, I may have told youthis. On June 6, my mother will
(23:12):
be 102. Yeah, incredible. In theDNA. As long as I keep working
on Hobbies, I have a lot ofhobbies as well.
Mark Williams (23:22):
I was just going to ask you tell me a little bit
about your passions on the side,which have now turned into full
time I think, other
Unknown (23:27):
than cooking, my other hobby is I ran I ran into
something. First of all, I'venever been clear with my hands.
I'm not somebody who can buildsomething on mixed up. I just
I'm not crafty. So about fiveyears ago, I went to a sick also
cigar show with a friend ofmine. I saw these beautiful
cigar boxes like well, what isgoing on? This is where we tried
to get rid of those boxes. Wegive jufa dollar apiece and they
(23:50):
were beautiful wooden boxes. SoI'm like What do you do with a
cigar box? So I took a couple ofhome you know, I got to looking
at them. I'm saying well, maybeI can make something out of
these boxes. So I went onYouTube and started looking at
it to tourism. What do you dowith the cigar box, and I came
up with an idea to make giftboxes. They can be jewelry
boxes, men's jewelry boxes. Sonow for the last two years I've
(24:12):
been making a gift boxes out ofcigar boxes that giveaway to
friends. I don't sell them. Igive them to my mom, my son, my
wife, but it relaxes me. BecauseI'm amazed at stuff that I could
do that I thought I could do. SoI I reinvented myself Oh no.
Yep, you've
Mark Williams (24:32):
never cease to amaze me. Tell me a little bit
about we talked about balance.
Your son and your son's emptynester now, advice for your son.
Obviously great career doingwell. When you talk about
balance and balancing your lifeand your work and spending time
at home. What kind of advice doyou give your son?
Unknown (24:56):
Well, my son is very unique. Like I said he wants
University of Delaware, hegraduated from high school in
2013. He went to University ofDelaware. And for me, that was a
big deal because we live inPennsylvania. And we did the
whole college to try to get himto go to schools in Pennsylvania
to Kansas, play whatever hesays, I don't want to go to
school. I want to go out ofstate well out of state
(25:17):
students, Cosmo Meyer, so hewent to University of Delaware.
And he was going for somethingdifferent. You know, it's like
robotics, and then halfway, hechanged his mind to graphic
design. I have no idea wherethat came from. Because I sat
him down and said, Look, we onlyhave a small pot of money. If
you go to college, you cannotafford to go and mess up my
mind. He would employ us and notbad, because I'm not paying for
(25:39):
five years, where he must haveheard me this kid was at
University of Delaware for fouryears, he made the Dean's list
the whole four years. Wow. He'sa smart kid. So when he got out,
I'm like, wow, how did you dothat? You know, so he's not
married. He's single. He has adog, you have a granddaughter?
And just yesterday, we had aconversation. He said, Dad, are
(26:02):
you disappointed that you're nota grandparent? That's it? No,
because I don't want to changediapers. So don't rush me.
grandparents. And his responsewas good, capital G or the zero,
you're not going to have a fewgrandkids tomorrow. So I'm not
I'm trying to take your time.
But when you find the right ladyto marry, I was 26. When I got
married the first time, I shouldhave waited.
Mark Williams (26:23):
Yeah, I'm in the same boat. Sometimes what we
think we want and what we whatwe do are two separate things.
100% agree with you. They'reamazing career. When you look
back on your career, you'vedone, you've made an impact on
quite a few people, includingmyself, balance and you look
back, are you happy with whereyou are with what you've done
(26:44):
and what you've accomplished?
Unknown (26:46):
You know what, I would not change the thing if I had to
do all over again, I will, Imight do in a different order. I
may maybe go to the FBI firstand then start teaching. But I
think the way I did it, it wasvery interesting for me, because
I didn't know, I didn't know Iwas gonna be an English teacher.
I was gonna be a writer. So whenyou first met me, I had my
(27:07):
insecurities. And I had myfears. And I didn't know if what
I was teaching was right. Butyou get I had no idea. And you
guys confirm it by telling mehi, hi, good. I was how much you
like my class, but I was justwinging it. I gotta be honest.
When I was flying by the seat ofmy pants, I had no idea what I
was doing. And then the fourthyear, I realized, all these kids
(27:28):
are saying I'm a good teacher.
So maybe I I didn't look in themirror and say you're a great
teacher. I did. I didn't seethat. I just thought maybe kids
liked me because I let them bethemselves. I didn't judge them.
We had conversations and told mesomething that was confidential.
I didn't want to tell anybody. Itried to be friends, somebody
who did you could talk to sure alot of teachers criticize me for
(27:48):
that. And so a lot of teacherspulled me aside to James, you
get too close to these students.
Yeah, be real careful, youshouldn't do that. And I said,
why not? And luckily, I wasnever in a situation for
somebody to accuse me of doingsomething I shouldn't have been
doing. Don't girls say what Mr.
Thompson touched me or saidsomething. I was not in that
situation where we both Irespect the students and they
respected me.
Mark Williams (28:11):
Still writing? I know you are because of the
book. So why don't you give us alittle bit of plug about the
books and and how you yourinspiration for that?
Unknown (28:19):
Well, I started writing in 97, I was in the 10th grade.
And my English teacher gave usan assignment to write a poem. I
had no idea what she was. Idon't know how to write any
poetry. So I went home and Istruggled. I wrote this poem
that was called reading betweenthe lines of love, I thought was
the most dumbest thing I've seenin my life. And I turned it in.
(28:42):
And she called me after class.
She said, Mr. Thomas, I'll seeyou at the class. I go, Oh, what
is it now? She said, You know,we have a school paper. We like
to reprint your poem in theschool paper like what? She
sounds like, is that reallygood? Well, it got printed a
school paper. And once I saw thebyline, my name on it. I was
hooked. So I've been writing itever since. But I was writing
kind of like in the closet. Ididn't want people to see my
(29:04):
writing because I didn't thinkwas good enough. Yeah, I call
myself a closet, right? So weyears and years later, I
published my book 30 yearslater, because I never thought I
was good enough, right.
Mark Williams (29:15):
Wow. Now you're now you're on book number two?
Well, I've got
Unknown (29:19):
four books out. And I'm working. Now. My next work. I'm
working on a murder mystery,which will be my first novel.
And it's actually a murder thathappened in my hometown in 1987.
Various sad because there's an81 year old lady who was stabbed
to death multiple times, and shewas a poor lady. So my question
is, who stabs the poor lady 15times in the neck. And that case
(29:43):
was a cold case in my hometown.
34 years later, they have noidea. Wow, now snooping around
using my former FBI skills, myinterview skills to get data on.
She's dead. And so as the personwho killed her probably three,
four years later, check withsomebody I still need to know
who did this. So my my love maybe a mix of fiction and
nonfiction to piece the storytogether. I think it's a great
(30:06):
story.
Mark Williams (30:08):
Well, I can tell you, I think you're a great
story. couple takeaways. I lovethe fact that you're a believer
that you can do multiple thingsreally well. And you surely are
a testament of that. Love theway you handle burnout and
admitted that you're burned out,which, which I think is really
commendable. I've spoken toquite a few people about
(30:30):
burnout, and no one ever wantsto admit that they got to their
end of the rope. And you didthat. And you did that
successfully, you've had, Iwould argue three or four really
separate careers in one in onelifetime, which is just
unbelievable. And you've made ahuge impact, at least on me. So
let me let me just say thankyou. And it's been a wonderful
(30:50):
road and journey to be incontact with you for almost 40
years now. I can't thank youenough for being on the show
today. Last couple of commentsthat you can leave people with.
Unknown (31:02):
Yeah, I want to return a compliment to you because I
want everybody to know what Ifeel about you, you know more.
You have amazed me to wait thelife you've built for yourself
and your family. I mean, youhave a lovely wife and your
beloved children. I'm reallyimpressed with you. You could
have gone a different way. Butyou didn't you stayed the
course. You've built a wonderfullife for yourself. And I have so
(31:23):
I have to commend you for that.
So that see you 40 years later,I can't do anything but smile,
because you know you were a kidin my class. But now you roll
man with a family. Thank you.
And I'm really impressed whatyou've done, even your podcast.
I mean, I look at your LinkedInposts and everything. You are
good, but you are a greatcommunicator. And for what I can
tell you also a good manager anda good boss. People like Well,
(31:45):
thank you very much you likepeople?
Mark Williams (31:47):
Yeah, that's for sure. Well, James L. Thompson.
We are going to leave a link tothe books for Amazon. So you can
pick up some books. You're gonnasee him in some commercials,
hopefully, maybe one day amovie. And if you're special
enough, you might get a cigarbox, James. It's wonderful to
see you always, always nice tochat. And thanks again for being
on the show. Thank you, Mark.
Good to see you. All right,everybody balancing out burnout.
(32:08):
We'll talk to you next time.
Thanks for listening. If youthink balance is as important as
I do, at work and all throughoutyour life. Help the show out by
leaving me a five star reviewfollowing me on social media, or
sharing the podcast with someoneyou think would appreciate it.
If you have comments orquestions. I'd love for you to
join the conversation with me onLinkedIn. I want to thank OBI
(32:31):
Creative for producing thepodcast and swells beats for
getting the music for me. Thanksfor sharing your time with me
today. And until next time, thisis Mark signing off.
You're listening to balance, not burnout, a
podcast helping leaders rethinkthe speed of their business. And
I'm your host Mark Williams.
Join me as I explore the powerof a more intentional, balanced
approach to leadership. Thanksfor listening.
Hey, everybody, welcome tobalance not burnout episode
(00:28):
nine. And today, this is areally special guest for me. In
fact, someone I have known forover 40 years, my sophomore year
in high school, one of myfavorite people in the world. My
English teacher, my sophomorehigh school English teacher, Mr.
(00:48):
James Thompson. And before Itell you, and before we get
James on, let me share a littlebit about his background. So
yes, I have known him for 40years as my English teacher
taught me the love of writinggot me writing poetry and all
kinds of stuff, not onlyteaching, James left the
teaching world to become an FBIagent. And then he left the FBI
(01:12):
to work for the EPA. And he alsowrites greeting cards, does a
lot of writing has a few books,and it does TV commercials, and
I believe has done a commercialfor an insurance company sort of
around that circle all out. Soplease help me in welcoming Mr.
James Thompson.
Unknown (01:29):
Thank you, Mark. It's really good to see you again. I
can't believe it's been 40years. Wow, that we've known
each other.
Mark Williams (01:35):
It is hard to believe that the 80s was 40
years ago. Correct?
Unknown (01:40):
You look good. You look great. Yes, do you?
Mark Williams (01:44):
But we always kick off the episode with our
first question. Sure. It's aSaturday or Sunday morning, you
have no responsibilities, youcan do what you'd like, be with
whomever you'd like, describefor us the perfect Saturday
morning.
Unknown (02:01):
To be honest, were you the perfect Saturday morning for
me, my wife and I, we are emptynesters now, so my son gonna
have one child, he's gonna be30. In July. He's out the house.
He's in Brooklyn. So it's justthe two of us. My wife is semi
retired. But she works two daysa week. But I'm retired. So for
us, it stayed at home, talking,having conversations, you know,
(02:22):
I do all the cooking in thehouse now because she didn't
want to cook. And so I took thatabout 15 years ago. That's
another story. Basically, we'reat the point now, where we
realize it and I at this point,everything I like should be
simple. No stress. We've beenmarried 34 years,
congratulations. No arguments,no fights, we're not going
anywhere, no divorces, weappreciate each other. We
(02:44):
respect each other. But mainlywe respect each other's place. I
mean, I'm the man. She's awoman. I don't try to take her
place. She doesn't take myplace. We split everything 5050
down the middle. It's worthparenting. Taking care of the
household. I think that balanceis very effective for both of
us. It gives her something tofeel good about. And it gives me
(03:05):
something to feel good about. Soit's not a 6040 relationship on
that set. I'm not saying it's aman's world do what I say. I
bounce everything off and Ibounce things back. And because
we started out as we fell inlove, we also became friends. I
think that's important. She alsois my friend. And I trust her
with my life because she is mywife. She's been my wife. And as
(03:26):
you know, this is my secondmarriage. I was married before
when you and I met. And that's awhole different story. But
Mark Williams (03:32):
yeah, I get that.
So Saturday morning, what wouldthe two of you do?
Unknown (03:37):
We have different tastes in movies. That's to tell
you that we have differenttastes and films and movies. So
I'm a Western. I watched Westernall day long. She does not like
restaurant, she likes to watchtennis. So she has to have the
Tennis Channel. And I have tohave the Western channel. So I'm
watching Gunsmoke and rawhideand she's watching Venus and
Serena play tennis. Fantastic.
Mark Williams (03:58):
Love it. Well, let's talk a little bit about
about your background. I knowyou've written a book about your
hometown, in Alabama, whatbrought you to Georgia? What got
you into teaching? And thenprobably next question would be
What got you out of teaching?
Unknown (04:12):
Okay, easy question. So I went to Troy. At that time, it
was Troy State University. It'snow called Troy University from
1972 to 1976. I went to schoolthere and I majored in English.
First, I got a BS in English andmaths teachers tried to keep me
interested in so why don't youstay in and get a masters? I
really was kind of brought upbut I stayed and got a master's
(04:35):
and of course in they said, Whydon't you stay to get a PhD? And
I'm like, No, I'm done. Igraduated in 1976, with a BS in
English and then 79 with amaster's in English. So in 1980,
my wife and I got married, andshe was living in Atlanta, and I
was living in Dothan at thetime. So I moved to Atlanta to
be with her. And I did not havea job when I got to Atlanta. I
(04:58):
have a master's in English but Ididn't have a job. So the funny
thing is, I heard thatsubstitute teachers were making
$85 a day. So I went down to thespot men of Georgia excitation
department to get a substituteteacher job. And I fill out the
application, I gave it to thelady. And she said, let me look
at your application before Igive it to the superintendent.
She said, You have a master's inEnglish. I go, yeah, she's a you
(05:21):
a black man with a master's inEnglish. Yeah. She's I think the
superintendent would want totalk to you. I'm like, What's
the big deal? I didn't reallyunderstand what the big deal
was. Sure. Lieutenant came out,looked at my application. He
said, You're a black man with amaster's degree in English. So
I'm like, yeah. can pick anyschool that you want? But what
do you mean? He says, we don'twe have a shortage of men,
(05:43):
teaching English, especiallyblack men. So he gave me four
schools to look at, I looked atfour schools, and we settled on
Henderson High School. And asyou know, the whole four years I
was there. I was the only blackmale teacher.
Mark Williams (05:56):
Yeah, and I'll even add to that, when I first
started high school in 1983 orfour, there were maybe 10 or 15
Black students in total atHenderson high school, out of
1400 kids. That changed. It didchange rapidly throughout my
high school education. But yeah,when I first started, there was
(06:19):
not a very large blackcommunity. Were surrounding
Henderson High School, for sure.
Unknown (06:23):
That is correct. Yeah.
But I have to tell you, andlisten was a dream job. For me.
I was a rookie, I did not knowwhat I was gonna get into. But
for the four years I was there.
I had a ball as some of the beststudents, we didn't have
discipline problems. And therewas no drugs. There were no
girls. Oh, no. Nice. I had goodstudents. I had good kids. And I
could
Mark Williams (06:43):
tell you, like, I can tell you a few stories
offline. But there was a littlebit of that, but not a lot for
sure.
Unknown (06:49):
I as a teacher, I never saw I didn't see that me. And I
as you know, I had a policy inmy classroom. I would not feel
any student who came to classand try it, if you try, would
not feel any student out there.
There one student in four years,because this guy came to class
and put his head on the desk andwent to sleep. Of course, he
fought. And he blamed me. AndI'm saying, Well, you want to
(07:13):
sleep for the whole year. Butno, I really love teaching. It
was a lot of fun. I hated toleave when I left. But we'll get
into why I left a bit later.
Mark Williams (07:23):
But I was gonna ask you Do you mind me asking?
So you made a very big leap fromteaching to the FBI, and I can't
think of something that would betotally opposite. Like who
woulda guessed that you go fromteaching high school English to
becoming an FBI agent carrying agun? Well,
Unknown (07:39):
let me tell you how that happened. Exactly. So
you're number four teachingEnglish. I was beginning to
experience burnout. I love thekids. I love the job. The pay
was very low. And I felt likethey were paying a lot of
things. I mean, they had mecoaching on eighth grade track.
They had me doing bus duty tohave you doing lunchroom duty
extra duties that had nothing todo with teaching just about
(08:02):
experiencing burnout. Plus atnight as an English teacher, you
work eight hours a day you gradepapers for eight hours at night.
So I was working 16 hours a day.
Really? Yeah. So a close friendof mine. He said, Why don't you
go and apply for the FBI. I justthought the FBI is looking for
new people. He was beingsarcastic. Because I'm 29 years
old at the time, and I said, Iwon't work for the FBI. Are you
(08:23):
kidding me? I used to go down,interview the FBI take all the
test. If you don't like it, youcan turn the job down. I'm like,
Oh, that makes sense. So I wentdown. I took all the tests with
FES like logical test, writtentest, really didn't think about
it. So eight months went by, andI really forgot all about it. So
I'm teaching one day in classand a guy knocked to my window
(08:44):
said, Hey, there's a telephonefor you. Why don't you get the
telephone and I keep the classwhere you get the telephone. I
think it was an emergency.
Somebody had died in my family.
So I go to the phone. The guysays this is so and so with the
FBI. You pass all of the tests.
We want you to come to work forus. And I said, yeah, very
funny. April Fool's. This is notan April Fool's joke. This is
(09:06):
FBI. You did pass the test. Andwe offer you a two week window
to show up. But you we want youto come work for something like
well, I'm an English teacher. Ihave a contract. I can't just
walk out and leave. He said,Well, you got two weeks. So I
went in to talk to my principal,Mr. Frank Campbell and said,
Hey, this is a dilemma and Ijust got a call from the FBI.
They offered me a job. I have acontract. What do you think I
(09:28):
should do? I never thought thatthe camera liked me. He said,
Mr. Thompson. This is anopportunity of a lifetime. He
said, I will use your age youngman, I would take this job. What
I'm going to do for you is I'mgoing to hold your job for you.
If you get that you don't likeit. You come back I keep your
job. Wow. Fantastic, greatteacher. We hate to lose you.
(09:48):
And I hate to say it but Istarted choir by him because
then I realized he did like
Mark Williams (09:53):
Yeah, and I will emphasize a gentle giant. You
have always been an fantastic Inthe classroom, which is one of
the reasons why we stayed intouch, always just a wonderful,
wonderful temperament in theclassroom, and really encouraged
people to find, to findsomething inside of them to
write about, which was justwonderful. And that started my
(10:14):
love of writing. I also knowthat you wrote greeting cards,
or maybe still do. So youdecided to go to the FBI. And
what did you do there?
Unknown (10:24):
I tell you what, that was the scariest decision of my
life. Because when I leftteaching, I had a secure job. It
was a low paying job, but asecure job. I knew I was gonna
be teaching for a long time, getto the FBI and the FBI, I found
out that they had a policy.
First of all, there were 40people in my initial class,
three black men, I was one ofthree black men, there was no
(10:45):
black female, there were womenwith no black females. So they
had a policy. If you failed anytwo tests with 85 or below, you
automatically kicked out. Andthat's a written test. Wow,
that's a physical fitness testas a firearms test, whatever
testing was, you feel any totest with 8080 below 85, you
automatically kicked out. Sothat was built in stress. Now
(11:08):
I'm sweating. I use Oh, I'venever shot a gun in my life
never had anything to do withlaw enforcement running five
miles a day. So the stress forme was enormous. And I needed a
lot of help. So I partnered withpeople in the class, you know,
people who knew better more thanI did. People knew how to shoot
a gun and things like this. Andwe did mutual mentoring. They
taught me what they knew. And Itold them what I do about
(11:31):
writing. And that's basicallyhow I got through a lot of
prayer.
Mark Williams (11:38):
And how long were you an FBI agent for
Unknown (11:41):
the training course to be an FBI? As you know, it's
four months longer. 16 weeksstraight? It's four months. It's
in Quantico, Virginia. I gotinto the FBI marks at the 1984.
And I stayed until June 1989. SoI spent five years with the
first office was Houston, thenit was New York City, which I
did not like.
Mark Williams (12:02):
Let's talk about that a little bit. So balance,
right. So first of all,interesting career choice, FBI.
How did your wife feel about it?
And how did you balance what youwere doing during the day, and
then come home and spend timewith your family at night?
That's an interesting, you know,I just have a I have a desk job.
So for me, not quite asstressful I'm sure as being in
(12:22):
the FBI. So I'm curious as tohow that was at home.
Unknown (12:26):
Well, this is a very complicated acid position. Yes
to Question. I told you, I wasgonna be completely honest, I
have to be honest. You remember,I was told I was married before.
I got married in 1981 1984. I'vebeen married for years to my
then wife. Then I went into theFBI. Well, unfortunately, while
I was gone, my wife got involvedin somebody else with somebody
(12:48):
else. So that time I finished myFBI training on marriage to
pretty much all Yeah, and shedidn't want to resume that with
me. So the whole time I was inHouston, she never came to
Houston, I wanted us to bymyself. We were going through a
divorce at that time. So oncethe divorce became final, and
October of 85. We never reallysaw each other again. So from
(13:10):
then on, I was single. So I hadnobody wanted to come home to
other than my empty apartment.
And it was very difficult, youknow, because it took me two
years to get over the rejectionof a divorce. Sure.
Mark Williams (13:22):
But even then, I'm curious how, how even a
single individual in a town yetyou didn't grow up in obviously
you don't know a lot of people.
You come home, you're in a whatI would submit probably as a
pretty high stress job. How doyou just how do you balance that
world? How did you relax? Well,
Unknown (13:39):
again, honestly, I said, when I got to Houston,
Texas in 1984, gentlemen, Ithought I had died and gone to
heaven. Let me explain. I didn'tlike Houston when I first got
there, because I thought it wasa country town. And I realized
it was the fourth largest cityin America. The women to men
ratio was 12 to one. This goes,I answer. Just goes we're
(14:02):
everywhere. So after work, we goto the discos, nightclubs and
whatever, meet people and itbecame a lot of fun. So when I
got transferred from Houston toNew York, two years later, I
cried like a baby. So I don'twant to go to a brand friendly
town. And not only the FBI wasmy family, I had a lot of FBI
(14:23):
agents that worked on my squad.
We were family, we spend timetogether at work, and
afterwards, we had house partiescookouts barbecues, they were my
adoptive family. Yeah.
Mark Williams (14:34):
And then you made a decision to go to the EPA.
What was behind that decision?
Unknown (14:39):
Well, first of all, I get transferred to New York City
to December of 86. Chicken likea baby, I get to New York City
and I'm like, I'm from Alabama.
What am I doing in New YorkCity? I get to New York. It is
just like I thought it was itwas a crazy place. Drugs. AIDS
was coming out now. announcementcame on the radio to save New
York City has 500,000 unreportedcases of 876. So then I just
(15:02):
wrestle as if they have 500,000reported cases of AIDS. I mean
reported cases of AIDS, I mean,so rather than dating, I went
out and got cable TV, and Ipretty much stayed home and
watched cable TV I was afraid todate, because you can't look at
a person till they have AIDS.
(15:24):
Luckily, I met a young man whosefraternity brother worked for
IBM. I mean, he worked for Xeroxat the time, and he told me I
work with this young lady. Ithink you guys will like us. And
I want to introduce you to her.
And I said, I don't ever want tomeet him because I just went
through a divorce. I'm reallynot interested. Yeah. And this
one over like man was he kepttelling me about this young
lady. So finally, we met. Andthat's the later marriage now.
Mark Williams (15:48):
Fantastic. And Was she a reason why you went to
the EPA? Like, like, what's thatdecision?
Unknown (15:53):
A reason I went to the EPA was very honest with I did
not like New York City. I didn'tlike the crime. I didn't like
the traffic. I didn't like thecold weather. I am not a native
New Yorker and the bright lightsdid nothing for me. I did not
like living and working in NewYork City. So as soon as I got
an opportunity to get out, Idid. And luckily, I had a friend
who was recruited for the FBI.
He went to recruitment fair. Andright next to his recruitment
(16:15):
desk, was recruited from theEPA. It just had a conversation.
And he said, Hey, I got a friendwho really wants to leave the
FBI. Would you mind talking tohim? And they said, Sure. So I
interview over the phone, EPA,and Dallas. They hired me over
the telephone. Wow, for a jobover the phone without ever
seeing anybody. So I gave mynotice to the FBI and I went to
(16:36):
Dallas to work for the EPA, butnot as a criminal investigator.
I went as a civil investigator,they, they people push it,
sitting at the desk doing paperviolations. I didn't even know
EPA had a criminal division aswell. I got there. Yeah. Well,
so five months later, I get acall from the Criminal Division,
which I didn't know they havedownstairs and he invited me
(16:56):
down to talk to me and the guysays, Hey, I used to hurt the
city used to work for the FBI.
But yeah. He said, Do you wantto get your gun and you call
back? I know what you're talkingabout. He says, we have a
criminal division of EPA. If youcome to work for us, you get to
go back in your car, like what?
Now I'm excited. And he said, wejust had a vacancy. So stupid
me. I go, Well, why? Why do youhave a vacancy in a criminal
(17:20):
department? And everybody gotquiet. And everybody's looking
down? I go, what's the problem?
He said, Well, the guy that hadthe job for you, you got shot
two days ago. Thank you. I saidwhat happened? He was walking
across the parking lot. You justserve a subpoena. a mugger
walked up to him, didn't knowwho he was asking for his money,
a fight ensued. The mug shot himand killed him that created the
(17:43):
vacancy for the job I took.
Well, now. Welcome to a new job.
Somebody that a couple weeksearly. Incredible. That blew me
away. Yeah. Because then Irealized you can actually get
killed on this job. Wow.
Mark Williams (17:57):
So some advice for those. This is going to come
from left field. But I thinkyou'll understand why I'm saying
I'm asking it. You have followedyour passions your entire
career, you've reinventedyourself several times. If
you're a young, if you'retalking to a 29 year old, 27
year old 26 year old JimThompson, what advice can you
give someone who's listeningthat, that maybe he's in
(18:20):
something they're not they don'tlike to do? Maybe they have some
hobbies or some passions? How doyou reinvent yourself? And how
do you follow your passions?
Because you've done thatextremely well?
Unknown (18:27):
I think that's a good question. This is what I think I
think. And I told him, I gave myson this advice. I think a lot
of people have been taught tobelieve they can only do one
thing. In other words, you canonly be an FBI agent. You can
only be an English teacher. ButI think you can do multiple
things. I think first of all,you have multiple answers. I
think you can do not just both,I think you can do all know that
(18:48):
I think you can do and well, soI didn't realize I have a knack
for FBI because I wasn't trying.
Nobody. My family was in lawenforcement. I was at first. So
when I get into FBI, I'mthinking how can I be a good FBI
agent? Well, I studied hard andlisten, I learned I watch
people. I didn't pull my gun andshoot every person I saw. The
whole time I was in the FBI, thewhole my whole 23 year career as
(19:09):
a federal agent. I do my GM onetime. That was in the first six
months. I never do it. Oh, 22years. Wow, never had to do
that. So I would tell the personforget about the fear, but get
about the thought that you onlyneed to do one thing. My son was
a graphic designer, artdirector, right? He's also a
writer. He's also a producer.
(19:30):
And I told him, You can do allthat. And you can do it well. So
like me, he's doing severaldifferent things. But he loves
it. Yeah. So don't tie yourselfto ones where you can have more
than one dream. Sometimes youhave to find out your own dream,
but I think it's okay. You cando that. What got you into
acting? Well, that's anotherstory. So I'm at the EPA in
(19:50):
Philadelphia, I'm working forthe EPA. I'm really happy. So
I'm watching TV one night andI'll see this commercial
pinball. That's the way that Iknow that guy. That guy works
for the EPA. it. So I go back towork the next day and I say, How
did you get into acting? Hesaid, Well, you know, I just
went down to the local castingoffice. You know what, I took a
couple of courses, you know, andI and next thing you know, I'm
(20:11):
acting, he said, You can do ittoo. I'm like, Yeah, but I
don't, I don't have anyexperience. In acting. He said,
well just go out and do somebreathing. Next day, I went
down, stood in a line, it had tobe 200 people in line to read
for commercial. So I gotdiscouraged and said, I want to
get out of that. I'm not stayingtuned to be. One guy said, Well,
you already hear Jay 50% ofsuccess is showing up. You
(20:33):
already here. might as wellstay. I stay when my time came
to read. They gave me some copyto read. I read it. They said, I
really liked your voice. Wethink you make a good act. We
got to send you out on auditiontomorrow. So it was a local show
being shot in Philadelphia. Itwas a T It was a cop show. And I
went out and auditioned for andI actually got a rope. And I was
(20:57):
acting right across from AndreBrown, the black actor who just
recently passed. Yeah, so we'vedone that. And, and, and almost.
So my first acting job wasstanding across from him. It was
so funny. Because when they saidcut, he won't go to me. He kept
looking. And he said, he stuckout his hand. He said, Hi, I'm
Andre Brock. Do we know eachother we met before? And I just
(21:17):
felt like now we know I'm doingsomething we never met. I was
blown away. He thought herecognized me. And for me, that
was it. That's all I needed.
That was the push I needed.
Describe
Mark Williams (21:31):
for folks how you handled and you've had burnout
several times, any tactics toovercome burnout. How do you how
do you re motivate yourself tomove on to something else?
Unknown (21:43):
Well, I gotta be honest, we've got cemetech. The
first first thing I do is Ibelieve in meditation. I
meditate a lot. I actually gointo a room with all the lights
off, no music plan, I just sitthere. And I meditate. And while
I'm meditating, I'm thinking andI'm also praying about what my
end goal is, what do I want toget out of this acting job, a
(22:06):
teaching job? Job? What's myangle? So I visualize what it is
I'm looking for. I try to keepmy eyes on the prize. And for
me, that helps a lot tovisualize where you're going.
Because if you don't know whereyou're going, it's like you just
taking a planned trip. So I haveto know where I'm going. I did
not believe I know I was gonnabe an FBI federal agent for 23
(22:26):
years. I think I'd be kicked outin the fourth year. I don't
think I will say. But I realizedthat the average people that FBI
just like me to haveinsecurities, that extroverts
introverts and as extrovertedintroverts like I am, I consider
myself an extroverted introvert.
I really am an introvert, but Ican't be an extrovert, if I want
to be. So another thing isexercise. I won't go into the
(22:49):
FBI. I did not run five miles aday, I didn't lift weights. And
I said, when I get out of theFBI, I'm never going to exercise
a day in my life, because it'stoo much. Now I went for miles
every morning, I'd be 70 yearsold. So. So exercise, I'm still
working out, because exercise isa part of my life. And my
mother, I may have told youthis. On June 6, my mother will
(23:12):
be 102. Yeah, incredible. In theDNA. As long as I keep working
on Hobbies, I have a lot ofhobbies as well.
Mark Williams (23:22):
I was just going to ask you tell me a little bit
about your passions on the side,which have now turned into full
time I think, other
Unknown (23:27):
than cooking, my other hobby is I ran I ran into
something. First of all, I'venever been clear with my hands.
I'm not somebody who can buildsomething on mixed up. I just
I'm not crafty. So about fiveyears ago, I went to a sick also
cigar show with a friend ofmine. I saw these beautiful
cigar boxes like well, what isgoing on? This is where we tried
to get rid of those boxes. Wegive jufa dollar apiece and they
(23:50):
were beautiful wooden boxes. SoI'm like What do you do with a
cigar box? So I took a couple ofhome you know, I got to looking
at them. I'm saying well, maybeI can make something out of
these boxes. So I went onYouTube and started looking at
it to tourism. What do you dowith the cigar box, and I came
up with an idea to make giftboxes. They can be jewelry
boxes, men's jewelry boxes. Sonow for the last two years I've
(24:12):
been making a gift boxes out ofcigar boxes that giveaway to
friends. I don't sell them. Igive them to my mom, my son, my
wife, but it relaxes me. BecauseI'm amazed at stuff that I could
do that I thought I could do. SoI I reinvented myself Oh no.
Yep, you've
Mark Williams (24:32):
never cease to amaze me. Tell me a little bit
about we talked about balance.
Your son and your son's emptynester now, advice for your son.
Obviously great career doingwell. When you talk about
balance and balancing your lifeand your work and spending time
at home. What kind of advice doyou give your son?
Unknown (24:56):
Well, my son is very unique. Like I said he wants
University of Delaware, hegraduated from high school in
2013. He went to University ofDelaware. And for me, that was a
big deal because we live inPennsylvania. And we did the
whole college to try to get himto go to schools in Pennsylvania
to Kansas, play whatever hesays, I don't want to go to
school. I want to go out ofstate well out of state
(25:17):
students, Cosmo Meyer, so hewent to University of Delaware.
And he was going for somethingdifferent. You know, it's like
robotics, and then halfway, hechanged his mind to graphic
design. I have no idea wherethat came from. Because I sat
him down and said, Look, we onlyhave a small pot of money. If
you go to college, you cannotafford to go and mess up my
mind. He would employ us and notbad, because I'm not paying for
(25:39):
five years, where he must haveheard me this kid was at
University of Delaware for fouryears, he made the Dean's list
the whole four years. Wow. He'sa smart kid. So when he got out,
I'm like, wow, how did you dothat? You know, so he's not
married. He's single. He has adog, you have a granddaughter?
And just yesterday, we had aconversation. He said, Dad, are
(26:02):
you disappointed that you're nota grandparent? That's it? No,
because I don't want to changediapers. So don't rush me.
grandparents. And his responsewas good, capital G or the zero,
you're not going to have a fewgrandkids tomorrow. So I'm not
I'm trying to take your time.
But when you find the right ladyto marry, I was 26. When I got
married the first time, I shouldhave waited.
Mark Williams (26:23):
Yeah, I'm in the same boat. Sometimes what we
think we want and what we whatwe do are two separate things.
100% agree with you. They'reamazing career. When you look
back on your career, you'vedone, you've made an impact on
quite a few people, includingmyself, balance and you look
back, are you happy with whereyou are with what you've done
(26:44):
and what you've accomplished?
Unknown (26:46):
You know what, I would not change the thing if I had to
do all over again, I will, Imight do in a different order. I
may maybe go to the FBI firstand then start teaching. But I
think the way I did it, it wasvery interesting for me, because
I didn't know, I didn't know Iwas gonna be an English teacher.
I was gonna be a writer. So whenyou first met me, I had my
(27:07):
insecurities. And I had myfears. And I didn't know if what
I was teaching was right. Butyou get I had no idea. And you
guys confirm it by telling mehi, hi, good. I was how much you
like my class, but I was justwinging it. I gotta be honest.
When I was flying by the seat ofmy pants, I had no idea what I
was doing. And then the fourthyear, I realized, all these kids
(27:28):
are saying I'm a good teacher.
So maybe I I didn't look in themirror and say you're a great
teacher. I did. I didn't seethat. I just thought maybe kids
liked me because I let them bethemselves. I didn't judge them.
We had conversations and told mesomething that was confidential.
I didn't want to tell anybody. Itried to be friends, somebody
who did you could talk to sure alot of teachers criticize me for
(27:48):
that. And so a lot of teacherspulled me aside to James, you
get too close to these students.
Yeah, be real careful, youshouldn't do that. And I said,
why not? And luckily, I wasnever in a situation for
somebody to accuse me of doingsomething I shouldn't have been
doing. Don't girls say what Mr.
Thompson touched me or saidsomething. I was not in that
situation where we both Irespect the students and they
respected me.
Mark Williams (28:11):
Still writing? I know you are because of the
book. So why don't you give us alittle bit of plug about the
books and and how you yourinspiration for that?
Unknown (28:19):
Well, I started writing in 97, I was in the 10th grade.
And my English teacher gave usan assignment to write a poem. I
had no idea what she was. Idon't know how to write any
poetry. So I went home and Istruggled. I wrote this poem
that was called reading betweenthe lines of love, I thought was
the most dumbest thing I've seenin my life. And I turned it in.
(28:42):
And she called me after class.
She said, Mr. Thomas, I'll seeyou at the class. I go, Oh, what
is it now? She said, You know,we have a school paper. We like
to reprint your poem in theschool paper like what? She
sounds like, is that reallygood? Well, it got printed a
school paper. And once I saw thebyline, my name on it. I was
hooked. So I've been writing itever since. But I was writing
kind of like in the closet. Ididn't want people to see my
(29:04):
writing because I didn't thinkwas good enough. Yeah, I call
myself a closet, right? So weyears and years later, I
published my book 30 yearslater, because I never thought I
was good enough, right.
Mark Williams (29:15):
Wow. Now you're now you're on book number two?
Well, I've got
Unknown (29:19):
four books out. And I'm working. Now. My next work. I'm
working on a murder mystery,which will be my first novel.
And it's actually a murder thathappened in my hometown in 1987.
Various sad because there's an81 year old lady who was stabbed
to death multiple times, and shewas a poor lady. So my question
is, who stabs the poor lady 15times in the neck. And that case
(29:43):
was a cold case in my hometown.
34 years later, they have noidea. Wow, now snooping around
using my former FBI skills, myinterview skills to get data on.
She's dead. And so as the personwho killed her probably three,
four years later, check withsomebody I still need to know
who did this. So my my love maybe a mix of fiction and
nonfiction to piece the storytogether. I think it's a great
(30:06):
story.
Mark Williams (30:08):
Well, I can tell you, I think you're a great
story. couple takeaways. I lovethe fact that you're a believer
that you can do multiple thingsreally well. And you surely are
a testament of that. Love theway you handle burnout and
admitted that you're burned out,which, which I think is really
commendable. I've spoken toquite a few people about
(30:30):
burnout, and no one ever wantsto admit that they got to their
end of the rope. And you didthat. And you did that
successfully, you've had, Iwould argue three or four really
separate careers in one in onelifetime, which is just
unbelievable. And you've made ahuge impact, at least on me. So
let me let me just say thankyou. And it's been a wonderful
(30:50):
road and journey to be incontact with you for almost 40
years now. I can't thank youenough for being on the show
today. Last couple of commentsthat you can leave people with.
Unknown (31:02):
Yeah, I want to return a compliment to you because I
want everybody to know what Ifeel about you, you know more.
You have amazed me to wait thelife you've built for yourself
and your family. I mean, youhave a lovely wife and your
beloved children. I'm reallyimpressed with you. You could
have gone a different way. Butyou didn't you stayed the
course. You've built a wonderfullife for yourself. And I have so
(31:23):
I have to commend you for that.
So that see you 40 years later,I can't do anything but smile,
because you know you were a kidin my class. But now you roll
man with a family. Thank you.
And I'm really impressed whatyou've done, even your podcast.
I mean, I look at your LinkedInposts and everything. You are
good, but you are a greatcommunicator. And for what I can
tell you also a good manager anda good boss. People like Well,
(31:45):
thank you very much you likepeople?
Mark Williams (31:47):
Yeah, that's for sure. Well, James L. Thompson.
We are going to leave a link tothe books for Amazon. So you can
pick up some books. You're gonnasee him in some commercials,
hopefully, maybe one day amovie. And if you're special
enough, you might get a cigarbox, James. It's wonderful to
see you always, always nice tochat. And thanks again for being
on the show. Thank you, Mark.
Good to see you. All right,everybody balancing out burnout.
(32:08):
We'll talk to you next time.
Thanks for listening. If youthink balance is as important as
I do, at work and all throughoutyour life. Help the show out by
leaving me a five star reviewfollowing me on social media, or
sharing the podcast with someoneyou think would appreciate it.
If you have comments orquestions. I'd love for you to
join the conversation with me onLinkedIn. I want to thank OBI
(32:31):
Creative for producing thepodcast and swells beats for
getting the music for me. Thanksfor sharing your time with me
today. And until next time, thisis Mark signing off.
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