Guest Appearance on James Lauriello’s The Steep Stuff Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:27):
Nicholas Coleman.
Welcome to the Steep StuffPodcast.
My friend, how are you?

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hey James, it's good man, I'm doing all right.
I'm doing all right.
I'm glad to be here.
It's weird, man.
It's weird.
It's like you're on my podcastbut then I'm on yours and it's a
conversation it's aconversation.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
Uh, dude, so we can, we can, we'll back this up a few
, a few years.
This is back march of 20.
Maybe it was like it was eithermarch or january of 2023.
I came on your your podcast todo an episode when I first time,
the ultimate direction was likeback then, and, dude, I was
this just young green personthat knew nothing about the

(01:10):
sport, knew nothing aboutanything.
I still don't know much aboutanything.
But, yeah, man, it was, it wascrazy.
Going all the way back in timewas kind of reflected on it
today, before our conversation,um, big shout out to the miles
and mountains podcast, whichwill obviously you know, this
will be shared on as well.
But yeah, man, it's good tofinally have a chat with you.
You were the inspiration forthis podcast.
You were the one who pushed mein the direction to do it when I

(01:32):
originally thought about it andhad kind of brought it up to
you, you know, years back, andyou were like, yeah, you should
definitely do it and you told meI'd be a natural and all these
things.
So dude, I appreciate it man,it's good to finally finally
have a conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, well, I'm glad you, you know you move forward
and took my advice and didn'tthink I was joshing.
You, you know, and, dude, anduh, congrats on your success.
And uh, the people that you'vebeen on, and you, I mean, you've
already sponsored dude.
Come on, man, you made it.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
You know what I mean.
We haven't made it yet.
We got a lot of ways to go, butit's getting.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
I appreciate it you made it then.
Then you got married and thenyou were on the.
Well, you were on the podcastagain, correct?
We had a couple meetings we did.
Yeah, you got married, dude,and you're still young man.
What are you talking?

Speaker 1 (02:18):
about.
I just turned 34 two days ago.
Three days ago three days agoI'm getting old.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
Old man, You're younger than I am.
I was laughing about this.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
The other day.
It's so much harder to recoverin your 30s, I don't know.
Actually, recovery was reallyeasy until two weeks ago and
then I'm like man, I'm reallysore, this is really hard.
So I don't know if it's megetting old or me just training
a little harder than I probablyshould old or me just training a

(02:47):
little harder than I probablyshould.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
So it happens I'll say that what's going on in the
great, in the great pacific,northwest these days, man, uh,
just cold, yeah, freezing cold,man freezing cold and yeah, just
, I don't know, like I'm runningstair climber, you know that
kind of thing, trying to staywarm, trying to stay warm and
out of the sickness, you know,uh, the, you know, having cancer

(03:12):
.
Is that okay I?
just say that talk about set,yeah having cancer all year last
year and not know it until thetail end.
It really took its toll, youknow, because I'm like
something's going on.
I, I think I'm sick.
Things are hitting me a lotdifferently.
You got a bump or two, you know, but this one bump is bigger
than the other and it makes you,uh, makes you worried and you

(03:38):
don't want to get sick becauseyou know you have Dr Bill's and
then you don't want more DrBill's.
So I did everything andanything I could to avoid people
and germs.
So I totally get what you'regoing through with your podcasts
and stuff.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
So it's funny because we were talking about before
the episode started for theaudience.
Like we were you called me outor not called me out?
but we were joking around,because I do mostly in-person
podcasts and over the last monthor two, I used it as a crutch
for it's it's two things.
I use it as a crutch because,well, one, um, you know, zoom

(04:16):
has been easier since we moved,just because you know I haven't
had the pod studio ready.
But two, I had the lastin-person podcast I did.
Someone brought me like a nastyI don't know if it was the flu
or what and I was like afterthat I was like dude, I like it,
like took like solidly knockeda week off my training and I was
like you know, I'm gonna keepdoing zoom for at least a few
more weeks and so I've beenusing it as a crutch.

(04:37):
But we'll be having kylerichardson's coming on pretty
soon and that's gonna be inperson.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
So, yeah, yeah it's good so, but like, along with
that, you know, um, I work witha bunch of kids at the local
high school, everything else andI also, you know, took a step
back of not just coaching butjust a break during winter break
, just so I could stay away fromgerms.
Man, you know, I've always beennot not so much a germ phobe,

(05:07):
but, you know, well aware, andyeah, this was like on steroids
uh, just making sure handsanitizer, you know, I didn't
wear a mask but I made sure myhands and body was clean and if
I had to go anywhere around mymouth or anything, I made sure

(05:28):
Kleenex was around.
I still like that because beingsick really makes you think
about life, man.
And I had that moment of justlike, oh my goodness.
And I had that moment of justlike, oh my goodness, because

(05:55):
you know, my family is veryhealthy.
You know, not just my immediatefamily now, but just growing up.
You know my dad did BostonMarathon four times.
You know, three or four times,did all kinds of marathons I ran
.
You know, my, my brothers, theydo their thing.
Just, you don't think abouthaving cancer at all you know,
and you're so young and activetoo, dude yeah, well, thank

(06:16):
goodness I am active and andthank goodness I, you know, I, I
found it and was aware and saidsomething, spoke up and
advocated.
That's like my job anyways, butadvocating for myself is pretty
difficult just because you stirthe pot.
Well, the other thing is.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
This might rile some people up, since we're starting
so early here.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
What I was going gonna say was yeah dude in our
medical system.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
Yeah, you really gotta speak up and advocate for
yourself, because the most, mostand I don't think this is too
controversial to say this butlike most of the times you're
going to a doctor, like, if it'syour general physician, like,
unless you're really likepushing and saying like
something's wrong, I need ablood test or I need this test
or I need that.
Usually it's like oh well,you've got the common cold or

(07:08):
you have this, that and theother, you know, wait a few
weeks and then, if it comes back, come back and see me and
you'll see a specialist, youknow, and that's the yeah, super
common, you know yeah well, Idealt with this, uh, right
before I went to go see my dad.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
Unfortunately, my dad passed, you know.
But the last time I saw him,you know, I had like this
vertigo and I'm all like whoa,what the heck?
You know, I was at work, feltlike I was drunk.
That's the weirdest feelingever, dude.
You're at work and you're goingto pass out.
Yeah Well, that lump.
I noticed the lump.
I'm like man, it has to be thelump and maybe stress.

(07:45):
But I go to the doctor.
I don't have a PCP, I don'thave a primary care provider, I
have the VA, right, and so I goto get help.
I go just to urgent care.
Well, they kept telling me it'sall in my head.
It's all in my head, you know,take this, take some vertigo
medicine.
So I did that for like twomonths, take some vertigo

(08:08):
medicine.
So I did that for like twomonths.
It kind of went away.
Well, dad passes and everythingelse.
I'm going in and out of thehospital and I'm like, all right
, what's going on?
So I'm trying to get approvedthrough the VA to see local
hospital you know, communitycare, as they say because the va
takes forever just to go andget in the facility so they're

(08:29):
like it's community care, so Ican see somebody outside the va
but va pay for, and so, fromlike april all the way till end
of september, I finally got adoctor who is uh september, I
finally uh got a doctor who isuh certified uh breast cancer

(08:51):
surgeon.
You know she does the oncologistright, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, well, not oncologist,just general surgeon.
That is, uh, well known to thebreast cancer patients and
everything else.
And so you know, throwing outmammograms, and you know you
being a guy, you don't everthink about that, you know.
So that was floating around.

(09:11):
She basically spearheaded thewhole situation.
Come to find I got a, gotcancer.
Well, dude, when you find outyou have cancer and they don't,
they don't tell you everything.
They said it on the phone on afriday man, and you know, on a
friday, oh my, yes.
So from that friday to twoweeks, and when I had to go see

(09:35):
them, dude, my mind was justracing panic.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
Is it more panic or dread?
Like, how does, like what goesthrough your head, especially
because you're you're a fatherand you gotta yeah, dude, oh my
god because you're so young.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
That's the reason I say this yeah, yeah, it's not
like you've lived your entirelife, like you've got a lot of
time left, man it was a, it wasa dark place, man, it was a dark
place and, like I was sayingearlier I'll go back to that
like I was saying earlier, youknow, when you're, you never
think of anybody, includingyourself.
We'll have the C word.
You know what I mean?

(10:08):
Yeah, that's the you, you don't.
And so when you find out youhave cancer, you're like, oh my
God, you're, you're, I was in adark place, dude, like I know, a
lot of people say, oh, I was ina dark place, man, I was
drinking, I was drinking and Ishouldn't have, you know, and I,

(10:29):
the only thing I could, I cando, was work out and drink, dude
, and I, the meat, the moment Igot off of work, I went to the
bar and I made sure I didn'tcome home.
I don't want, you know, my, mykids to see it, but I was, uh,
drinking, drinking, drinking andmore drinking should have, and

(10:54):
just trying to cope and uh, the,the two weeks were the worst
week, two weeks of my life, man,man, you know, and I lost my
dad this year, lost myfather-in-law, you know.
And uh, in September, it's beena hell of a year, you know, and
um, those two weeks, I'll neverforget it, but I will, I will

(11:17):
want to forget it, just becauseof the place that I was in, man,
I just didn't feel.
I didn't feel my like myself,you know, I just wanted to cope
and alcohol was my copingmechanism, you know.

Speaker 1 (11:33):
Which a lot of people turn to man.
I mean, I'm not saying thatthat's healthy or not, but like,
obviously you've got to deal.
I mean, put it this way, assomeone that's other than like
situations I put myself in in,whether it's in the mountains or
doing something stupid, it'svery strange to to contemplate
your own mortality, right?
Yeah, when you're faced withsomething like the c word, um,

(11:55):
you know, when it's somethingentirely out of your control,
for the most part, right otherthan you know, you can go
through certain medical thingsand go through that.
Obviously it's a differentconversation.
But like when it's entirely outof your control at first, I
can't imagine what you weregoing through when, when someone
, especially when they call youon the phone, it's not like they
can't, they can't even tell youa person the hell.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah, no, no, and she was off on a friday too, so she
stayed later or she went intowork just to call me.
Yeah, I thanked her, I thankedher, but also I thanked her,
like you know, saving my lifepretty much and, um, informing
me that I do have something,instead of it's all in your head
, you know well, dude, I can'tbelieve.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
So maybe, like, let's talk timeline a little bit here
, just because, um, you know, Ithink for, especially for people
listening to this like I Ican't stress it enough is like
the advocation for yourself, butit sounds like the timeline is
a really long time that passed,um, you know, for people telling
you that, well, it's on yourhead, you know yeah you know,
and then you continue to searchfor answers like how many months
was that over the entirety?

Speaker 2 (12:57):
I noticed it and went to the doctor, because january
18th is when I wanted to go seemy dad in Indianapolis, um, in
the hospital.
So I went, probably, I believe,the 15th of January, 16th of
January, to the doctor and sincethen, to September, um, playing

(13:19):
the game of oh man, I'm a gram,well, if he doesn't get a
mammogram, of, oh, mammogram,well, when?
If he doesn't get a mammogram,we're not gonna pay for it.
You know this and that.
So I was like man, just give methe mammogram, oh, it's not
needed, you know.
And civilian doctors sayingthis, that.
So it was just back and forth,back and forth and I was going

(13:40):
along with it.
I I didn't want to stress toomuch about it, but, um, just do
what va uh told me to do.
You know, just because, seeingthe bills now, I'm not gonna,
I'm not gonna piss them off,yeah yeah, it's crazy, and
that's another thing is the howexpensive it is, man yeah dude,

(14:00):
what was the cancer you wouldultimately diagnose with?
hodgkin's lymphoma, but it's arare type.
So it's uh, it, it.
It messes with the, the, the Bcells.
It turns the, the cells, theblood cells, into popcorn like
shape, um, you know, as it pops,you know, um, yeah, it's weird.

(14:21):
The moment you, you learn moreabout it, you're like, huh, this
is weird.
But, uh, it is.
Uh, what is it?
Uh, nodular lymphocytes,predominant Hodgkin's lymphoma,
and it's a rare type.
I'm going to have it for therest of my life.
I'm going to have to, um, youknow, know, be vigilant and

(14:45):
check my body, check every youknow lymph node.
I had it in my armpit andaround my neck.
They found that.
But uh, yeah, that's what,that's what I have.
And they said I caught it early.

(15:06):
And, uh, it's not an aggressiveone.
But, man, I'm so glad I got itwhen I did, because I dude, I
couldn't imagine, because itfeels like it's late.
You know what I mean?
I got it.
They were playing with me, butthey said I got it early, it's a
less.
They said this is the cancerthat you would want to have.

(15:26):
I'm like, oh, okay, sweet, eventhe rare type.
Yeah, a lot of laughs, a lot ofgiggles, a lot of sarcasm.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
I was trying to get you to smile because I was going
to say I would never know.
You look great.

Speaker 2 (15:40):
I appreciate it, man, like the first day I met you.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
Like you know, I'm free like the day first day I
met you.
So, yeah, well, I appreciate it.
Yeah, dude, so and you've beengoing through treatment now, um,
you want to talk about that alittle bit, like what has been?
What has the treatment processbeen like?
Have you been able to?
Because and for the audiencethat doesn't know this, like
dude, you're a straight up ultrarunner.
Like, you've run plenty ofraces, you've done a lot of
adventures in the mountains ohyeah has going through treatment
.
Are you starting to set littlegoals for yourself?

(16:05):
Like all right, this is whatI'm going to do after you know
this, when the summer rollsaround, like are you starting to
change your mindset a littlebit, or what does that been like
so?

Speaker 2 (16:13):
the moment, the moment, the moment I knew what
cancer was going to be, um anduh how it's going to be, I
stopped drinking.
I always had that problem, man,yeah, you, I always had that
problem, man, yeah, yeah, no, Ialways had that.
You know I had a love-hate withalcohol, you know that's how my
dad passed, and every time Iknew he would, you know, nonstop

(16:39):
drink, I'd stop drinking, youknow.
So I basically found out and Iwas like, okay, well, vegas for
the nfr, because you know that'spart of the podcast.
Love, I love the rodeo, lovethe western lifestyle.
Don't really live it, but Ipromote it because it's fun.
You know it's.
It's wild times, man.
So, uh, I'll be honest with you, man, I took my wife for the

(17:02):
first time, went, went to aconcert.
I had three beers the firstnight, three beers the second
night, got really sick.
I got like I think I ate bubblegums and got really sick.
Man, spend the whole day in inthe shower, if you know what I
mean.
My last day in Vegas and theshower.
And so yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah.
So um had fun.

(17:23):
Uh, not that day, and that wasthe last time I drank and that
was the first weekend of the NFR, so like the 8th, the 5th or
the 8th of December and doingpretty good man, I've been
around.
Alcohol, yeah, but Diet Coke itis, man I know, I never thought

(17:44):
I'd drink diet.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
Coke.
I didn't know it was zerocalories.
I'm not going to lie.
My sister drinks diet Coke,Dude the zero what the hell you
drink that for, but sure enough,zero calories, dude.
Yeah, it's the good stuff,apparently, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
Yeah, man.
So I'm kind of a connoisseurinstead of sewer of alcohol.
But um, so that, following Igot back on that sunday, I
started my first treatment onfriday and I just, uh, took the
treatment.
You know, god, dude, it feltlike the next day felt like I
got hit by a bus.
I know people say that cliche,but man, body ached, joints

(18:22):
ached, headache, out of controlfor four days, you know, and I
still went to work.
I took the weekend just torecoup and try to get the body
and mind right.
So you know, a lot of ibuprofen, or not ibuprofen, a lot of
Tylenol, because you know itdoes something with your blood
and whatnot.

(18:42):
So they tell you tylenol,tylenol.
So first first treatment, fourdays, dude was just terrible
headache.
So I did a lot of stuff.
For the second week, you know alot of prophylactic stuff,
preventative measures, a lot oftylenol.
You know, maybe not do thisinstead of that.

(19:04):
For the second treatment,second treatment was the
following Friday Turned out tobe okay.
Third one Same as the second one.
Fourth one Did you know?
I presented myself doing thesame thing.
I was ready, I was go, and thefourth one hit me worse than the

(19:25):
first one.
It's like, oh my gosh, Ithought I had it.
I had it in shape, man, I wasgood to go and no, six days
headache, man.
I went to work afterwards too,but I managed, thankfully.
You know my work.
I had, you know, christmasbreak, just like the high school

(19:48):
kids, you know, and use that asjust recover and just do what I
can and be there for the kidsand kids at school and just do
my job.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
What has that been like on my channel from from
work perspective?
Is it just like added extrapressure having to go to work
every day while you're goingthrough this?
Or is it like does work takeyour mind off of it?
Like?
What has that been like?

Speaker 2 (20:15):
work takes my mind off of it.
But, uh, they're having budgetissues so it's like, oh man,
that was more stressful.
Yeah, that's more stressfulthan anything.
But just knowing that you knowI love my job, I do it great,
I'm very good at it, and beingthere for the kids and just

(20:42):
being able to get my mind off ofthe cancer itself was a good
thing for me.
So work is never a problem, man.
I would consider myself aworkaholic kind of.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
There you go, yeah I like work, I like work.
It's where you and I differ,man, oh my god if I could just
run in the mountains every day,that's what I would do I would
yeah, but yeah, yeah, you getpaid for that though, yeah, not
enough.
Not enough to survive themortgage man um I got you, I got

(21:19):
you.
But yeah, now it's.
I can't imagine what treatments, what it's like now.
Your treatment was different alittle bit.
I don't know if you want to gotoo deep into this, but like you
did not do chemo, you did it'sa localized, yeah, infusion
localized infusion.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
Um, it's rituxim rituxaban, it it's the same man.
It's weird how they use thismedicine, certain medicines for
certain things, and you knowthey have multiple, uh, ways of
treatments and stuff, but it'sthe same thing as rheumatoid
arthritis, but with a twist.

(21:56):
I think that's how I, that'show I read it.
Man, scientific dude, if I wasa scientist or if you wanted
scientific wording andeverything else, I wouldn't be
in the field that I am in today.
So, um, good luck with that,but I believe it's a similar to

(22:16):
the rheumatoid arthritis.
Uh, when people do theirtreatment, like maybe once or
twice a year or something likethat, um, it's all in the veins
and it's all day treatment.
So you get there.
I got there like eight o'clock.
It started at 815 and didn'tget done until like three or

(22:41):
four every each time and youjust sit there contemplating, is
it?

Speaker 1 (22:49):
pain seen.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
No, no, it wasn't painful.
No, it wasn't the they, I don'tknow.
Man, uh, what would youconsider painful, like the, the
meds going in your arm?

Speaker 1 (23:04):
I don't know.
I just wasn't sure, like if.
If it's like I don't know, I'mgonna get real I'm gonna get
real, that wasn't painful.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
The painful thing was seeing other people in pain and
, uh, going through stuff.
That's worse, I'm sure.
Or you know what we consider,what I consider worse.
Um, that was more painful thananything.
But like I was saying beforethe this episode, and sorry, to
get real, I don't want to getall.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
No, no, please do, please do Dude.
It's your story, it's yourstory.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
The cool thing is man is I'm not used to that kind of
care and the Tri-Cities CancerCenter in Richland, kennewick,
washington, was out of thisworld caring.
I've never been throughsomething like that, never had

(23:58):
that care.
Um, it's.
It's hard to say, man, becauseI'm used to the va, I'm used to
the army care.
You know the treatment, nothaving a pcp, to having someone
say do you need anything?
We're here for you.
They're there every 30 minutes.

(24:19):
You know taking, you knowvitals, making sure you're
comfortable, and, uh, whenyou're, they're doing that it's.
It's like everybody had theirlittle um cubicle kind of thing
you know to be comfortable, TVchair that you sit in.

(24:43):
You know doing chemo andwhatnot.
But I think the worst, thepainful part, was seeing other
people in pain and going throughtreatment that is worse or a
cancer that is worse than yours.
You know, yeah, that's quitethe sight.
But man, dude, the, the care isout of this world.

(25:05):
I, I give it all to their care.
Man, just because once I foundout like how it was, um, it set
the tone for like, okay, I cando this, you know I can do this
and I'm gonna work on myself,I'm not gonna drink, I'm not
gonna, you know, do other things.
I'm going to, strictly, youknow, do what the doctor orders

(25:25):
and I'm gonna better myselfbecause, man, you see some guys,
see some people, that's justit's not good, you know, and so
I don't want to, you know, takeadvantage of my treatment and,
uh, just want to pay it forward.
You know, make sure, you know,people get looked at.
If something's not, ifsomething's foreign, go look at

(25:48):
it, you know, get it checked out.
And that's that's the causethat I've been doing ever since
I found out that I had cancerget looked at, don't hesitate.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
I think you had an absolutely beautiful post on
Instagram, on your podcastInstagram, and you said
something very close to alongthe lines of that and you've
been a significant advocate forit.
I think that's like I said Ican't hammer this home enough.
I think that's something that Isaid I can't hammer this home
enough.
I think that's something thatpeople you know need to
constantly talk about and itneeds to be something that's

(26:18):
conversated, just because in ourmedical system right now it's
it's a freaking train you know,and that's not a it's um.
you know, it's definitelysomething that people need to do
is advocate.
So for sure, for sure.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
Yeah, that, that yeah .
I never thought I'd advocatefor cancer man, just like I said
earlier, I'd never thought,when I was, you know, growing up
, that I would have cancerperiod, you know and nobody
thinks about that.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
You know, it's like yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
And then you have, you're like, oh my God, and you
just think you think of thedarndest things.

Speaker 1 (26:51):
We're going to.
We're going to go deep withthis question and you can.
You don't have to answer this.
I'm just very curious justbecause, like I said, I've only
been faced with mortality.
You know I've been very luckythrough life, as probably many
people have, and you know you'reonly faced with your mortality
for the things you put yourselfin um, as opposed to outside
forces like cancer and thingslike that.

(27:11):
Has it changed?
How does it change the way youlook at life?
Like do you I?
And the reason I say this isbecause I think very deeply on
this level like every now andthen, when I'm wasting time at
work or something, I realizelike, oh my god, I just wasted a
day and I'm like you don't gettoo many of these, you need to
stop wasting days and live life.
Do you look at things a littlebit differently now?

(27:34):
Has it changed your perspective?

Speaker 2 (27:37):
not, not so much.
Um, the one thing I havechanged is just the outlook and
workouts man, yeah, yeah, dudeyou like, yeah, like more, you
hate them more, like what's the?
if I need to walk, I, I'm okaywith walking, okay, okay.
Before before it's it was likedude, I need to go balls to the

(27:59):
wall.
You know it's go big or go home.
Yeah, now it's like you know,if I get a mile in just pure
running and then walk for twomiles and do another mile, you
know it's, I'm good, I'm goodman, and as long as I'm moving,
I'm, I'm, I'm satisfied.
Before, dude, I have to go geta full-on sweat, because you

(28:25):
know, that's just life, just howI measured everything.
Now, it's just I'm moving, I'mhappy and just getting it out.
Man, now it's like, uh, insteadof music, I'm listening to
audible books.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
That's not like me, dude.
What's it like Are you?
Do you find?
Do you find more enjoyment innature?
Are you getting outside more?
Is that helping at all?
Too Like cause I gotta, I gottaunderstand, I gotta guess that,
like not just being sick, wisecancer, but like mental health,
it's going to take an absolutetoll on you too.

(28:59):
So the outside has got to be anoutdoors.
It's got to be a giant help.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
Yeah, thank, thankfully, you know, I'm, I'm,
I'm a social worker.
So mental health is you know?
Uh, definitely, I advocate forthat.
And uh, nature nature's nature,man, nature's always there?

Speaker 1 (29:21):
if I, how can I answer this?
I don't know mental health.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
Right trails help, but it also almost goes hand in
hand with, uh, just walking.
Yeah, um, because I neverstopped and smell the roses, you
know, as I like to say, and hada episode, just you know,
explaining that and um, on mypodcast.
I I'd never really did that,but just me being able to, uh,

(29:52):
not overly exert myself and justbe out there and walk is is my
answer instead of nature, youknow, um, because I never really
stopped and smelled the roses,take pictures listen to the
quietness, man, like that's.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
I think that's the one thing it's funny.
This season I've really uppedit like big time, like I am very
determined let's put it thatway but like I have also, like
when I take time to like I neverused to just take time to do a
hike as well, like as a doublefor the day or a triple, and I
do a lot more hikes now, manwith dogs and I just don't bring

(30:34):
my earphones and I just listenand it's very relaxing to just
take a walk, you know, in natureand just be there and be
present and be grounded.
I never used to appreciate thatand now I don't know if it's me
getting old and my wisdom, butdamn, do I appreciate it.
It really, and I wouldchallenge any person listening
to this.
Like, if you don't do that,like find it, even if it's 20

(30:56):
minutes out of your day, justhang out outside and just listen
to nothing, it's great.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, so just moving, being out, there, is helpful.
Nature not so much.
It was always a workout,workout, workout, you know, it
was just.
You know, I'm outside, I'mworking out.
Now I'm outside, I'm justmoving.
You know, um, it was just.
You know, I'm outside, I'mworking out.
Now I'm outside, I'm justmoving.
You know, am I stopping?

(31:22):
Smell the roses?
Uh, there's not much to seearound here, man.
It's low desert, you know, andit's very windy and cold here.
It's just.
It's not that fun now.
Pacific northwest winter is notgreat man no, no, especially
eastern washington it's a lotdifferent.
Everybody thinks it's evergreenstate, not over here, it's
scablands, and if you guys knowwhat scablands is, it's missoula

(31:46):
flood.
Just wash this whole thing outand basically there's no trees
in sight until you get tospokane.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
So oh god, do you ever traveled all you ever like
you, ever go out to themountains at all during the
winter, or do any skiing, or I,I do, I do, I was gonna do, uh,
uh, mount hood ascent.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
uh, in winter ascent I still up in the air, um, this
month or next month, we, I don't, I don't know but I will be
doing it in May, um, so, again,I love Mount hood, mount hood's
good, but no, I travel a lot.
Right now I've been, uh, justdoing stuff around my house.

(32:27):
Uh, you know, just not thetrail system here and there and
a loop trying to stay closer tohome, just because I don't want
to get stranded.
you know, um, because the healthyeah, now it's smart, yeah, but
that that's, that's my comfortzone right now.
But I I do and have been goingout, um, to the nearest mountain

(32:48):
here and there.
I want to do something elsebecause it gets boring.
After so so long I've beendoing it for years it's just
like, okay, let me go to hoodfor a weekend can't really go to
hood because my kids and thewife, you know- responsibilities
, man that's for sure yeah, howfar are you from that hood uh

(33:09):
two, two and a half to threehours, depending on traffic okay
, that's not bad.
That's not too bad at all yeah,yeah to get, yeah, to get the
mountains any, any drive aroundhere is two and a half mile.
Uh, two and a half hours.
Okay, that's similar tocolorado springs.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
Man, we're like two hours, just about two hours,
from probably I'd say probablytwo hours to the closest ski
resort, two hours to all theother 14ers other than pikes,
peak, and maybe it's a littlebit less like mount evans, mount
beardstaff, but like uh, it'skind of it I don't know.

Speaker 2 (33:42):
Yeah, yes, I did.
I did plan on uh doing uhguadalupe peak and wheeler peak
uh in april.
Yeah, in april.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
But man the flying right now I don't know if I want
to fly, dude, I know it's crazy, it's crazy I have my my
mother-in-law's here stayingwith us and, uh, it's funny, my
wife and I like never watch thenews.
I like live in a bubble dude.
I'm I'm terrible with that, butmy mother-in-law's here and
they're from like upstate newyork, so the the news is on a
lot and, uh, I feel like I'velearned more about the news and

(34:16):
like plane crashes and shit thisweek than I have in the entire
three years of my life.
Yeah, it's crazy it is so, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
So you know, if that doesn't happen, I think, uh,
spring break, I'll just go dothe highest point nevada, that's
cool and uh, in the summer, endup going to your neck of the
woods and doing uh king's peak.
And then a couple peaks were incolorado nice man.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
I love the colorados on the on the in the plans.
Well, listen man if I'm here.
If I'm around, when you're uhin town, I'll take you up.
It'd be an honor to go up withyou.
It'd be nice and fun.
Yeah, get up on.
Have you been on Pike's peakyet before?

Speaker 2 (34:59):
No no that's good.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
Well, that one's an easy one.
We could take the train up orwe could do it the hard way.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
Not a hard way, dude.
Go big or go home dude, thenature man, I don't know man.
I always go to thesedestinations and just get a
workout in, and if I stop, I seeit, if I don't, I don't see it.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
So it's interesting, it's a crazy thing, it's funny.
I have a very good friend ofmine, one of my best friends,
shout out to Brad, he's a, he'smore of an FKT racer and he
genuinely does it because hejust loves the mountains so much
.
And I was thinking about thisjust being introspective
recently and I was like man,like what got me into the sport?
Why do I love it so much?

(35:42):
And, like my, I was thinkingabout my like relationship with
the sport has changed so muchbecause it's gone such a like
360 from loving being in themountains to, or 180, I should
say, to performance and likeracing and like loving that
scene too.
And it's like man, I gotta getback to like having balance
because, like, if you do, if youdon't have balance, you know it

(36:02):
, you should just enjoy likehaving fun and in the mountains,
as opposed to, it can't alwaysbe a, you know how fast can I
get to the top of this peak anddown, oh yeah the cool thing
though, man just being anoutdoors, outdoorsy person,
outdoorsman, whatever you know.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
Change it up and do some backpacking.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
You've done that yet no, no, it's something I've been
wanting to do.
In fact, we were just talkingabout it because I was saying my
wife's family lives in upstatenew york and we're gonna be in
like vermont, new hampshire, uh,new york, for probably most of
june this year and, um, yeah,I'm like probably gonna do some
of the at.
I don't know about backpacking,but like at least like hobby
jogging slash, like runningsections yeah, do a bunch of it

(36:45):
in new york and vermont andmaybe some of the long trail and
stuff like that, and it'd becool to see.
And you know, I don't know ifI'm the kind of person to ever
do like like a long backpackingtrip, like I don't know how the
I don't know if I'm the kind ofperson to ever do like like a
long backpacking trip, like Idon't know how the I don't know
if I have the patience forsomething like that.
Yeah, I'm very impatient person.
I I, if we're, if I'm movingtoo slow, I'm like what am I
doing here?
Uh, but that said, the older Iget, the more I'm starting.

(37:16):
It's especially because, like,there's technicality in the
Northeast, so that's veryengaging, whereas, like some of
the longer trails out West, Idon't know if it would like
capture my it's different,different mentality, different
feel, different love of the game.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
You know, not only you have to worry about the time
, worry about your pack, youworry, you know, uh, your water,
your food situation, and thenyou know if you can make camp
before dark, or it's not darkyet, but I still can move.

(37:47):
Let's go another 12 hour, youknow, another few hours until it
gets dark.
You know, you know, let's pushyourself a little more, and then
you, you spend more time in themountains.
You see the mountains and, uh,how the mountains, they, they
look the same, but they're not.
Every every little crevice,every rock is different.

(38:12):
You know, one, one mountainrange has granite, the other
doesn't.
It's just, you know it, dude,it's, it's crazy, it's it.
That's the only time I'll likejust know the difference of
nature.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
And a workout when I backpack well, I think there's
something to be said too,especially if you're backpacking
by yourself or if you're with avery small group of people.
I think there's something to besaid about that much time just
being in your own head, likebeing alone with yourself, right
.
It's like oh yeah that's thatthat makes you change as a
person.
You know, and I think there'sthose are growth opportunities

(38:49):
too.
So it's like, yeah, you getsome fitness from it.
Yeah it, um, you know, natureis obviously amazing, but I
think, like the growth potentialis a person that you could
probably gain from just like along time just being in your own
head and being by yourself.
Um, it's probably massive fromsomething like that.
You know, dude, I'm such a slowwalker like I'm this is kind of
funny actually like my wife andI like if we go for a hike, she

(39:11):
drops me, like I am I'm anotorious slow walk walker,
slash hiker yeah, I don't knowwhy and like I, just it's hard
for me.
Like I, um, I do a lot ofdoubles or triples in a week
where, like the second likeworkout of the or not what
shouldn't say workout secondstimulus of the day will just be

(39:32):
like a long hike, um, you know,yeah, you know, a couple hours
or something like that, justtime on the feet and just, you
know, just enjoying beingoutside for your mental health
and um, dude, my like, I hate it, like I'll get done and my
ankles are hurt and I'm like,why do I not feel this when I
run really hard or like runningmountains, like it's like hiking
for me is like I don't know andI'm very slow, so that's

(39:53):
another thing that's kind offunny.
It's like I'm used to running.
I had a pretty good clip, youknow, humbly speaking, yeah,
like, yeah, it's, it's, I'm areally bad hiker.
You should say so.
Have you ever done anythinglike that?
Have you ever done like pct orlong trail or jmt or anything
like that?

Speaker 2 (40:11):
I've done parts of the jmt, I've done the the north
to south lake and bishopcalifornia, um, that, that that
was uh 40 or 60, something likethat 46, 46 to 60 miles.
And you, you get the portion ofuh jmt and you get the john

(40:35):
muir uh pass.
You, you, you get the portionof uh JMT and you get the John
Muir uh pass, you get all thatyou can uh it's, it's Darwin,
yeah, you can see the viewsthere.
But uh, that I've done, I'vedone that and also do a lot of
uh destinations as my hub andthen do a lot of uh destinations

(41:01):
as my hub and then all and I'llhave, you know, my camp and
then I'll just go one trail nexttrail, one trail next trail.
So I'll do like two or threetrails a day and just head up to
camp, not sleep until I'm likeyou know I crash.
But uh, that's, that's how Inormally get around and that's
how I am able to do all thesemountains and cascades and

(41:24):
Sierras and whatnot.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
Cascades are sweet range.
Man, I've got to tell you putSeptember 13th.
I think it's September 13th.
It's that second weekend ofSeptember 2nd or 3rd.
I've got to find out.
Don't put it in your calendaruntil I give you the date.
But I'm coming out to see you.
I'm going to do Cirque SeriesCrystal, crystal Mountain, which
can't be that far from you.
It's got to be what three?

Speaker 2 (41:48):
hours.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
Dude, you should think about doing that race.
You should come out, you shouldcome out for a little circuit.
Who puts it on?
Who puts it on?
It's a circ series race.
So the circ series is it's asub ultra series of races, um,
and they put on some of the moremost, uh, I'd say, competitive,
deepest, uh, sub ultra.
You know when I say sub ultra,like mountain classic distance,

(42:09):
so like 10k, 11k, 14k, um, andthey're usually like you know
that distance with you knowsomewhere between two to three
to sometimes four thousand feetof vertical.
So, for instance, like thecrystal mountain one, I think,
is like just south of threethousand feet of vert and like
seven miles, so it's basicallystraight up to the ridge line.
You'll be on the ridge line fora little bit and you drop down

(42:32):
and you know you get speedydescents on some single track
and some dirt road and it's fast, it's very fast, but it's so
much fun dude.
So yeah, they're putting it onfor the first time this year, so
that's on my list to go out anddo.
So put that one on, startthinking about coming out to do
Cirque.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:50):
So I don't know, man, it's hard to get away from what
I have planned or not planned.
And you talk about walking.
It took me two to three yearsto do, or train for, multiple
day events 24 hours, 32, 48hours and, um, basically, my

(43:17):
walk is almost like my jog.
So it's, it's impressive, dude.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I mean, it's true, it's,it's an art form.
It is difficult, man, and onceyou have it, it's, it's really
tough to go to speed, man, andI've been trying to go back to
speed.

(43:37):
I tried, I, I'm trying, man,I'm trying, but I'm just, I'm,
I'm hooked and I've been in itfor quite some time.
It took me a long time to get,you know, getting the motion,
getting the groove of multipleday events.
I love them.
I'm just taking a step back.
I'm going to do more mountainsthis year.
I like it.
I signed up for across acrossthe years.

(44:00):
Last year Okay, yeah, greatrace.
I signed up for the 48 hour one, but I had to cancel.
I, they were man and shout outto our Viper man, they didn't,
you know, they didn't cut myloss.
They said that I have until2026 to use the credit for that
race and I think that's the onlyrace I'm going to do this year,

(44:24):
the 48-hour one.
When does it cross the years?
Just because of it's the therace?
Uh, man, it goes from.
No, no, when, six hours when?
Oh, uh, january it goes across.
Uh, I guess new year's okay,okay, the 28th, uh past new

(44:46):
year's all, all the way up tosix days so so I thought and
that's, that's my goal.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
Okay, dude, that's amazing that's my goal I love to
hear yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
But man, after you know, tearing my plantar fascia
last year, dude, it was justlike hitting at all angles, man
you know, and getting thatplantar fascia, I'd rather have
back surgery than, uh, tearingmy plantar how did you and that?
Overuse, overuse and notstretching, not stretching

(45:20):
appropriately, or the amount oftimes I was beating to my body.
Basically it was the calves man.
You got to stretch the calves,beat them up to the point that
it just lowers the tension onyour wheels, man, and I tore it.
I tore it, dude.
I went to a foot doctor, did mybest scar tissue so bad it's

(45:46):
almost like a pressure point,dude.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
Yeah, dude, that's crazy.
You might be the only personI've ever met that's from their
plantar fascia.
What like do you?
How did you like?
What does that pain feel like?
Like what's the area of yourfoot that that hurts?
Is it like?

Speaker 2 (46:02):
So I'll I'll show.
Are you going to put this onYouTube?

Speaker 1 (46:06):
No, no, I mean if you want me to, oh, okay.

Speaker 2 (46:09):
Okay, no, no, no.
No, I see you taking clips, butall right.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
I'll make sure this is the one I clip for, yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
I'm trying to get it, but it was right here, man
Right there, right, it's rightthere, like underneath the arch.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
Oh my God, dude, that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
Yeah, right, right, past the heel to the arch, man.
Yeah, wow, yeah, man, it's beeneventful.
Man, yeah, so don't ever needsurgery, because I swear, ever
since I had back surgery, itwent downhill from there, man.

(46:46):
I went from back surgery totorn meniscus, to everything
else you can think of, dude, wow.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
Yeah, man, yeah, only knock on wood.
So far it's just been an anklethat it snapped, but other than
that it's been relatively smoothsailing, oh yeah there's
nothing like a uh, what a secondgrade.
Uh, tear or sprain in the ankleI've had that a couple times man
, yeah, yeah, yeah, dude, I wasjust telling my, I hate I was

(47:17):
just talking about the uh, theankle the other day, like when I
snapped it, like listening you,I heard it snap, like it was
allowed to snap you.
Oh my god, yeah, dude, that wasuh, that's not something I ever
want to do again.
That was probably your worstfear, man.
Uh, yeah, you know what I don'tknow?
it's a fear I've been running alot more downhills lately and
just trying to get morecomfortable with like, like high

(47:39):
intensity going down andespecially with rocks and
technical stuff, and I thinkit's just you know repetitions
and you start to get more usedto it.
I, I don't know.
Yeah, it does, but like you,just can't fear it, you know,
just have hope for the best.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
Yeah well, when you hear the pop, there's no sound
like it.
Man, you're like oh, I heardthe pop.
Oh my gosh, you know, that'swhat I'm saying.
Like the fear, yeah, and it'slike oh god, I, I don't want to.
Yeah, I can't mess with mywheels, man, you know, I can't
mess with my wheels the otherthing that scares me is the
achilles, the achilles tendon.

Speaker 1 (48:14):
Uh, it's something I never want to do, because the
people that like me, is theachilles tendon.
That's something I never wantto, because the people that like
have problems with achilles,especially with like hagman's
deformities and stuff like thatthat carries you for a while
unless you go get it cut out,and it's like that's worse if
you snap the achilles like.
I've only known one athlete intrail running.
I'm cringing man, yeah, butsnapping the achilles is not
good, yeah the surgery for thatman.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
So yeah, man, so yeah , but for you, man, what were
you Cross?

Speaker 1 (48:45):
the years.
Go for it.
No, I was just going to ask youabout cross the years.
I think that's a solid goal,man.
That's exciting.
It's something to train for andyou got another year to go for
it and, yeah, I think that's abeautiful goal.
I'm excited for you.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
Yeah, yeah, there's.
There's nothing like fixed, uh,fixed course.
And you know you bring yourstuff and you just have a little
, you know your little area andget what you need, get what you
get.
Don't throw a fit and, yeah,Fixed course they can be boring,

(49:19):
but but I mean that's how youcan push the body and not worry
about anything it's true, it'strue.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
Well, you know what, dude, one of these days we are
going to recruit you to subultra.
We're going to get you out.
We're going to I don't knowwhat it's going to be, but it's
going to be a solid sub ultrarace.
Maybe we'll get you a brokenarrow or something.
We'll get you there.
So, yeah, it'll be, it'll begood.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
I'll eventually get your ear enough to, uh, bring
you to the dark side yeah, my,my, my big goal, though, man, um
, so I remember talking to benlight and mike mcknight right,
not throwing any names out there, but, um, they were thinking
about this 300 mile race in utahand they're finally putting it

(49:57):
on.
That's what I want to do, man.
I thought about doing the crazy, thought about doing that, uh,
the crazy mountain, the 300that's in montana, that only
like, I think it's up to 15people or 20 people, um, but
montana is more brutal than utah, and I'll take Utah over
Montana, just because theGrizzlies, that's fair.

(50:21):
Cause you have to take, you haveto take a class, man, you have
to take a class and you carrythe, the bear spray and whatnot
you know, when you're doing thatMontana race.
But yeah, think about hittingMike McKnight up and say hey,
dude, can, can I get in?
You know 300 miles, man, justjust do it, just try it.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
I think you should absolutely go for it.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
That's the number one goal right now.

Speaker 1 (50:45):
I just happened to come across Mike McKnight's
Instagram that guy is jacked.
Now, dude, he's, he's in aninsane shape Like dude yeah,
holy shit, he's in crazy shape.
Yeah, insane shape.
Like dude yeah, holy shit, he'sin crazy shape, yeah, yeah.
And he's like like I don't know.
I think he like put somethingup about like I don't know.
People call him like abodybuilder, now like he's, he's
, he's, he's jacked, likeseriously jacked.
The guy is in insane shape.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
So, yeah, good for him yeah, yeah, yeah, man, yeah,
and he's doing othercompetitions and stuff like that
and killing it there.
It's like what we can't he'sdoing how can you do?
What can't you do?

Speaker 1 (51:18):
How are you?
It's like yeah, crossfitadjacent, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
Yeah, crossfit, yup, yup, but yeah, no, he's killing
it, him and his, uh, his, milkproducts.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
Does anybody have a products?
Is a milk product?
Oh man, raw, it's funny, rawraw milk.
The 200 mile people is like acompletely different scene than
like it's like it's like it's anown world, whereas like the sub
ultra is its own world, youknow.
Then there's the ultra scenewhich is like your, your 100
mile distance, 50k, you knowthat like premiere scene, which
is interesting.
So it's cool to see like howthere's all different like
worlds within the sport andthere's like some little
crossover with you know, yeah,man, and, and you know I've had

(52:05):
big names on the podcast.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
I'm getting you know big names that aren't so vocal
or out there, like Ben, likeMike McKnight, you know, and and
some of your guys that are partof your program, um, not on
your podcast, but ultimatedirection.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
Yeah, john Kelly, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
Kelly.
Um, but, dude, I've beengetting these people in and, uh,
just tweaking their mind tryingto find out, like, how they do
what they do, which I love.
That's the premise of thepodcast.
You know just why do you dowhat you do, how do you do it,
and you know what, what.
What is, what does it take tocomplete it?

(52:50):
Man Well, I had Deshauna Joe on.
Have you ever heard of her?
I think from your podcast, Ibelieve, yeah yeah, well, dude,
complete ba dude, total, badass,right, she, if you follow her
man, you can still.
You know, she just likes tomove.

(53:11):
And when I was interviewing hershe she's done crazy, three
times crazy mountain.
Uh, she wants to finish it.
She hasn't finished it.
She's done cocodona, she's doneall those 200 races right.
And I asked her leading up tothe race how many miles does she

(53:32):
get a week?
Crazy dude, almost like johnkelly.
John kelly blew my mind when hesaid he gets 60 in his routine,
you know yeah 20 to 30 miles.
20 to 30 miles and she completedcoca-dona bro, I believe it, I
but dude.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
You know what it is especially I, I can speak a
little bit of john kelly'straining just because I know him
.
But like, yeah, like everythingjohn touches is quality, like
there's no bullshit miles inthere, like there's nothing.
Oh yeah, and he does a lot morespeed work than people think.
He does.
A lot like he.
That dude's really fit.
And I think like he gets thepeople get the wrong idea.

(54:08):
Uh, because he does like superlong stuff.
So people automaticallysynonymize like long stuff with
walking.
No, john kelly is fit as fuckdude.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
Like he.
I've run with him a couple oftimes, John.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
Kelly is a really good athlete.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
Yeah, he's a freak of nature man.
There's a reason why he cancomplete Barkley.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
Like John Kelly stopped the food chain, like if
he wanted to go, if he wanted togo race, um, I think, yeah, I
forget what his marathon time is.
He's got a pretty fast marathontime like he's a legit athlete,
um, like he's not not playingaround and he puts me to shame
rightfully so.
He puts a lot of people toshame, dude.
Uh right, like rightfully sohe's.
He's like you know, that's why I, I just think like barclays,

(54:49):
yes, barclays, a different beast, because it's you know, it's
really hard, right but like I'mjust talking like from a pure
fitness perspective, like anactual, like like a 10k, 5k
marathon, like he he's actuallylike a solid competitor, like
he's very good athlete no, yeah,but for him to say 60, I get.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
I've been getting a couple people you know, like
lance harp he's a local runnershout out to lance.
You know, he said he walked allof cocodona.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
I'm like, okay, all right, the 250 mile walk, dude,
that's a long way to go, yeahyeah, but then I get her on man
and she's just 20 to 30 miles aweek.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
Man, just blew my mind.
I'm like, wow and so.
And then I'm getting you knowanother gal on that I work with
who doesn't doesn't have totrain at all, but she'll do a 50
miler like that dude and finishit.
I'm like, oh, I've trained upto certain times and I'll get a
DNF.
You know, I'm just sayinggetting all sorts of data, you

(55:58):
know, beta, as climbers like tosay.
You know, and just work thesystem and see how the mind
works.
I mean, it works in mysteriousways and seeing the body can do.
Yeah, man, it's been fun lately.
It's been fun and a lot ofpeople have been noticing it,

(56:19):
you know, on the podcast, andnoticing that I have been having
a lot of fun.
Considering the circumstances,it's a good outlet, yeah.
Yeah, 19 episodes out last yearPeople were like you're still on
the podcast.
Yeah, I'm still on the podcast.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
But I just had to deal with it.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
Yeah, like you're still on the podcast.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
Yeah, I'm still on the podcast, but I just have to
deal with it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah so, but nowit's like dude nick, you're
killing him, like am I?
I'm just having fun, man, justhave fun.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
The man is back.
Hell, yeah, yeah, man, yeah,you know, I like I.
I'm always there to help people, man.
And uh, if you had a a nichefor podcasting and you needed
help, I'm always there to helppeople, man.
And if you had a niche forpodcasting and you needed help,
I'm always there.
It's not a cutthroat world forme.
I'm always willing to pass italong if you're going to have
fun.
So look at you now, man, 60something dude, you're pushing

(57:12):
them out 60.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
Well, no, I'm going to gonna be at so 60 something
interviews, but I'll be a.
I think this episode is likeclose to 100, like it'll be like
at 100 by year one.
That was the goal.
I put out a ton, of ton ofvolume dude volume, volume,
volume.
See what sticks, see what works.
Um, yeah, man, it's, it's.
Uh, yeah, it's it's.
Everybody I've spoken to hasbeen so kind, like the podcast

(57:35):
and like whether it be you, jon,jonathan Levitt is another guy
down the trail.
Finn Melanson from Singletrackhas been a good.
You know I bounce ideas off ofhim.
Like there's Singletrack, yeahyeah, there's plenty of people
that have been just like somonumental and like helping grow
this damn thing, and I meanit's not, I'm not going to lie,

(57:56):
it's not, I'm not gonna lie.
Like, I think any person that'sa very competitive person like
myself, and any person that,like you know, has high
aspirations, like, um, you know,for certain things, like I wish
it was bigger.
Obviously we all wish we, youknow, bigger, this better, that
you know but, it's like it hasbeen an amazing journey, like I
think the more I gotten out ofit is more so, just like having
made so many friends.
I think that's the crazy thingyou know it's been so cool to

(58:18):
like cover the sport and, likeyou know, tell, help tell the
stories of, I think that youknow.
So there's, there's a I don'tknow if you're familiar with,
like free trail, right, and thisis no, no knock on free trial.
I think free trail is amazing.
I just think the free trailfollows a very specific type of
athlete and there are so manyathletes out there that don't

(58:38):
get their shine, especially inthe sub ultra space, like no
one's covering the space.
So for me it's like you know,this is the most competitive
racing.
You know, figure.
Let's take Golden Trail, right,and then the sky running series
and then the Cirque series.
You then your one-off racesthat are, you know, amazing as
well.
There's so many of some of theworld's most competitive

(59:01):
mountain races, if you will, andit's like some of the best
athletes in the world are racingthese and no one's following it
or no one's covering yeahtalking about it and helping
tell stories, and there's crazyright right, well, and you get a
lot of these people that, likeyou're Remy Bonet's of the world
, right, I'm sure everybody'sheard of Remy, but, like then,
you know, nobody could tell mewho got fifth at Pike's peak in

(59:21):
2023 or 2024, you know nobodycan tell me, but it's like
that's an amazing, that athleteis an incredible athlete and
like deserves that story toldand they're top of the food
chain.
So it's like that's.
That's kind of where I see it,as you know.
And then the other thing, too,is people coming up in the sport
.
Um, you know, I love being ableto tell the stories of those
that are starting to cause.

(59:43):
As an athlete, it's easy for meto sell like all right, this
person's going to be really goodor this person is really good,
I have a lot of right, but it'slike uh being able to tell that
story, um, and and kind of getthat energy off of them, you
know, because they're coming up.
There's nothing, you knownothing more magical than that.
To be able to uh see that andwatch that.
Uh, you know, become a thing.

(01:00:03):
So right, it's been crazy, dudeyeah, and then put them on yeah,
and it's weird too because putthem on and understand what they
do yeah, I will understand whatthey do, but I think it's even
more so their mindset.
Um, it's wild dude likemichelino sinceri is a great
example, like michelino's abuddy of mine and he's a wild
boy, wild boy, interesting cat,um, but, and he's like has fun

(01:00:28):
with it and he's enjoys it andlike loves the sport.
But also he he's a little morerelaxed right, he's hardcore,
like he's an amazing athletebut's a little more relaxed.
Right, he's hardcore, like he'san amazing athlete, but like a
little more relaxed about, likedifferent personality, right, I
think that's what I'm getting at, right.
But then you meet like john isis, and john is is a three-time
pikes peak marathon champion andthe dude is like xyz, like

(01:00:48):
dialed, like completely up, he'san aerospace engineer, phd.
So so completely oppositepersonalities.
It's interesting because theyboth competed the highest and
operated at the highest ofhighest of levels and be able to
see the way they think and bothhave massive success in the
sport and you can take littlethings from different people and

(01:01:09):
apply that in what you do andit's helped my game a lot.
I've learned so much as anathlete and it's helped me get a
lot better.

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
So yeah, it's cool, it's crazy yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
What a world.

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
It's a, it's a win-win.
So it's a win-win man andputting the you know, those
people up, like you were saying.
You know, that's what I've beendoing, the Western lifestyle
and that's how I've created, youknow, um, the success that I
have in that, you know.
First I questioned myselfbecause, you know, I don't look
the part man, I just go there.
I love the rodeo man, I lovethe, the events, I do it, I'm

(01:01:46):
good at it, I know who are upand coming and you know, I
approached them.
And then the, the runners, dude, if they come, they come, if
not, oh well.
But lately I've been puttingpeople up there that question
themselves, you know, and thenthey have like a moment of
clarity and I'm like, yeah, I'mgood at what I do, and then they

(01:02:09):
tell the story and they tell meafterwards thank you, I needed
that, I needed that little push,you know.
And so, yeah, that's what I'vebeen doing, man, and I've been
having fun.
When it comes to the runners,not so much.
You know, get Mike McKnight on,or you know the big names John
Kelly on, or you believe it ornot, your big name.

(01:02:30):
Just let you know that, yeah,whatever man, whatever dude, but
yeah, it's just yeah, it's,it's, it's.
It's pretty uplifting, man, toknow that we have this platform
that can push people to newheights, whether you know there
are athletes, studs themselvesor people that are starting and

(01:02:50):
questioning whether or not theyhave it, the fortitude to do
what everyone does about.
You know what we our populationon the podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
You know, so I agree man, it's, it's, uh, it's pretty
cool, man, yeah it's a, it's a,it's a, it's a privilege I
think that's the one way I'llput it is like especially a year
in and with no, uh no, plans onslowing down anytime soon.
Like it's definitely, yeah,it's.
It's a privilege to be able tohelp tell people's stories and
you know and grow the sport andpush it push it in the direction

(01:03:23):
.
You know, at least have somepower and push it in the
direction.
I think it should go, you know,I think that's that's another
thing is being able to you.
You know cause?
Just cause there's so fewpeople covering the damn sport
that I, like I don't know youget a little power to be able to
be like all right.
Well, we should cover this.
Maybe it's the right thing.
Maybe it's not, I don't know,you know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
Yeah, man, yeah, yeah , it's, it's, it's a great
feeling.
It's a great feeling just to be, um, you know, do what you love
and do you know cover somethingthat you care about.

Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
Yeah, dude, it's crazy Awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
Yeah, so well, dude, do you think we got?

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
everything.
When are you going to get Bo on?

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
When am I?
Oh, bo Shelby, I was going tobring him up actually, cause I
was going to tell you like If heruns a sub ultra race, he's on
no no, no, have them on.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
Have them on, dude, the kid is good.

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
Oh, no, he's.
He's.
No, there's no doubt.
But I got to stick to the scope.
I'm a, you know.
I got to cover the sport.
We got to we got to.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
I haven't done a sub ultra because I'm the podfather.
You're the pod, you're theinfluence for this podcast
actually, is that?

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
no, and I gotta give bo shelby his flowers.
I mean, he had a greatleadville last year.
I like I'm very aware of who heis.
Um, you know he's had a great,great race to run rabbit.
Obviously a great race atleadville.
I'm glad uh I can't remember,did he win silver rush?
He did very well at silver rusha couple years back and then
obviously had a great race atleadville.
So so, no, listen, very wellaware, like I said, the one

(01:04:57):
stringent policy is like you gotto do a sub-Ultra race at some
point.
So if he puts himself up in asub-Ultra race done, I'll give
him the interview of his life.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
Dude, just give him an interview.
Man, because the kid.
I call him a kid because he'syounger than me.
Man, but dude, he is talented.
And call him a kid because he'syounger than me.
Man, but dude, he is talented.
And I will never forget thefirst time I met with him, ran
with him, even though he we weredoing last man standing, I was
doing a ruck, he was doing histhing and, dude, no one moved
like that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah he's good dudeno, no one moved like him and he

(01:05:33):
doesn't even put in the effort.
But man, is he a dark horse?
No matter what, it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
Not for long, dude, not for long for dark horse he's
going to be.
Uh, if he keeps doing rightlike he, like the way he ran
Ludville, if he has anothercouple more successful races
like that, like his name will beout there.
He's a kid's good, very, verygood.
Yeah, yeah, good talent man.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
Good eye for good eye for the talent yeah, dude, I'm
good, I, I coach man, I coachtrack and cross country, you
know.
So I, I know a few things.
I might be old, but not thatold, and I, I got my niche, but
uh, no, he went to worlds too,did he?
I don't think back backyard, uh, world, oh backyard worlds yeah

(01:06:15):
, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:17):
I don't know whether it works, even the worlds man I
don't know why it works forbackyard, for how that works,
but that's amazing dude kids arelegit, there you go yeah, dude,
I'm telling you, telling you,yeah, so so what's next man?

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
what's?

Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
next for you?
Oh dude, um big block offitness right now working on,
you know, running a very fast10k.
It's kind of where I'm atsomewhere in that realm, like
midway through the block anddestroying myself like three
workouts a week.
So trying to get that done.
Once that's over with, um, youknow, transition back to the

(01:06:54):
trails.
Uh, probably around late march,early april, and, uh, start
preparing for the trail season.
Dude, I'm gonna be all over theplace.
Be, yeah, racing in, we'll bedoing.
Um, I'll be racing in the usmount, I think it's, is it?
No, it's up down, not runningchamps of sunopi, so I'll be
there for that, trying toqualify for worlds.
Um, yeah, that'll be fun.

(01:07:16):
Um, and then cirque seriescanon, you'll get it.
Uh, no, no it'll be exciting tobe there.
Um, you know, dude, thecompetition is just so it's,
it's insane.
Like we have.
These are the best athletes inthe world.
Uh, and like just so.
The depth is so deep, so it'llbe fun just to compete and see
what that level's like, becausethat's another level up from

(01:07:37):
whatever level I've ever evenbeen on.
So it'll be fun to see, like,what that looks like.
I think it'll be all right, um.
Cirque series cannon Lookforward to doing well there.
Cirque series Killington I'llbe at, which I'm very excited
for Um be going to Alaska thisyear for the first time, which
I'm excited.
I'll be doing.
Cirque series aliaska.
What else am I doing?
A couple more I'll be at cirqueseries, alta, and then dang

(01:08:01):
dude you're busy.
A base, yeah well.
So I just signed another dealwith sportiva and there's a big
push because they sponsored thecirque series.
So there's a big push.
We'll have all of our athletesout there to compete and it'll
be fun yeah, it'll be like a bighomecoming, big, you know
family reunion, with all thesesportive athletes out there
throwing down.
So it'll be cool for that.
Yeah, um what else am I doing.

(01:08:22):
I'll be at a basin whether I'llrace or whether I'll just be
there and person to cover,that's to be determined.
And then, um, the rut, whichI'm super excited for, I'll
probably be.
I'm doing the VK, I might dothe 28K as well, undecided on
that.
And then Cirque series, cannon,and then I did sign up for a
50K.
I am going to run a veryunknown race it's called the

(01:08:47):
Sangre de Cristo 50K in thisbeautiful area, the Sangre de
Cristo mountains of Colorado.
I signed up for it just becauseI've I I had I've had good
success over the years.
Uh, it was the first race I everran.
Uh, in colorado, which was thesecond christian 50k, and I like
let it for almost the like tothe last, like to like mile 25,
and rolled my ankle and walkedit in, came like 12th place.

(01:09:09):
So I have to come back andwrite that wrong.
I've got the course record atthe 27k and and the 14k.
So I'd like to get out of the50k just for a little, something
fun to do at the end of theyear or at the end of the race.
So, yeah, man, that's the sweat.
We'll see what happens.

Speaker 2 (01:09:24):
I don't know listen to you, man.
Here I am one race because ofall the stuff, but then I'm
gonna do a lot of mountains andtrails.
So two things, man.
I remember when you firststarted you were guessing,
second guessing yourself onwhether or not you should start
this podcast.
You're killing the game right.
Second dude, second second bro.

(01:09:47):
I know you're humble, that'swhy I love you, dude, but let's
sportiva.
You know, ultimate, uh,direction, they, they, they
don't just sign duds, okay.
And for you to say, oh, I'm notout there right now and me
telling you, dude, you, you'llget it, and you quit not

(01:10:08):
questioning, but you just saying, no, dude, you need to stop
doing that.
Man.
Oh, thanks, there's a reasonwhy they signed you.
There's a reason why they signedyou.
There's a reason why theysigned you, bro, and you got to
take it.
You got to take it as is.
I love the humbleness, man, but, dude, you are an elite athlete
.

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
Oh, thanks man.

Speaker 2 (01:10:29):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:10:30):
I appreciate the kind words so much and you got to
own it.
No, I do, I do.
I appreciate the kind words somuch and you got to own it.
No, I do, I do.
The thing is is like our sport,and I think that I have to give
flowers where it's due forcertain things.
Our sport is just socompetitive, dude, and it's so
difficult, and I think for meit's the motivation to go race
something like soon to pee.

(01:10:50):
So, for instance, like, I havegoals.
Like my goal is to, like,christ's sake, finally get on
the podium of cirque series racethis year.
That would be great, that's,that's.
That is obviously the, the goalof one of them of the many that
I'll be doing, uh, but the goalis also to chase the pro podium
.
Like there's a.
The way it works is they havejust like any like, whether it's
the golden trail series, thecirque series or the goal or the

(01:11:12):
sky running series, there's a,a pro ranking, if you will.
And last year I was able.
I was happy, I'm stoked, I gotinto the top 10.
I was like, oh, this is great.
Yeah, um, meaningless for otherpeople, stoked.
For me it was like all right,this is, this is validation.
You know, considering some ofthe best mountain runners in the
world, you know, your christianallens, your philomons, your
joe grays end up in there.
Uh, not saying that I'm anywherenear that level, because I'm

(01:11:33):
certainly not, but it wasdefinitely some, some little bit
of validation and like like, ah, all right, if I work, continue
to work really hard at this,eventually it'd be at that level
soon to p.
For something like soon to pfor me is going to be one I can
say this right now just becauseI cover the sport and just
because I know the sport so well.
So something like soon a peasy,they're going to be won by a
complete unknown, someone that'sgoing to come from the track
and field background tocompletely obliterate that race.

(01:11:55):
Or it's going to be your,somebody like your christian
allen, which, if you have that'ssomeone to have on the podcast
the kid is elite of the elite.
There's just there's likethere's levels to the, to the
sub-altar scene in a way that Idon't think people understand,
like it is just such acompetitive field and like,
that's why a lot of names.
You don't.

(01:12:15):
People don't learn a lot ofnames.
Because someone like joe gray,who's 40 can be 41, has had such
longevity because he's justbeen top of the sport for so
long, which, and if he wins allthe races, it doesn't.
And same like christian allen,same with your max kings, um you
know, it doesn't create as muchspace for big names to get

(01:12:36):
known.
That's why there's a little bitless.
But dude, it's, it's, the depthis so deep man.
So yeah, I mean I'm realistic,I'm not you know, I don't want
to say like, oh, I'm going towin win this or win that or call
that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
No, you don't have to , but you can say it.
Well, you know, I'm going tosay it for you, dude.
Oh, thanks, man, because hereyou are, the podcast game is
competitive, no matter how youlook at it.
No, daily work, our jobs, it'scompetitive.
No matter how you look at it,it's cutthroat.
You know where I work and youknow, and in the group or the

(01:13:14):
social work life, you know it'scompetitive there.
It's cutthroat.
Anywhere you look at it, man,it's competitive.
And you got it, dude.
You got it in the podcast world, you got it in life, man, shout
out to your wife, dude, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:27):
I'm married now.
You got married.

Speaker 2 (01:13:30):
I mean, come on, dude , you know you're killing it,
dude, and I'm proud of you.
Man, I just want nothing butthe best.
You doubting yourself orquestioning, dude, stop doing it
.
Man, there's a reason why LaSportiva signed you, ultimate

(01:13:50):
Direction and others.
You got it, bro.
I appreciate the compliments,man.

Speaker 1 (01:13:55):
It'll be fun.
We'll see what happens, man.
Thank you, yeah, I mean it'llbe fun we'll see what happens
this year.
It's definitely going to be funuh you know, just to go to new
places and and and competeagainst great athletes, and you
know a competition's fun dudelike I, there's nothing more fun
than, uh, being able tocompletely empty yourself and
then with a bunch of otherlike-minded individuals, and you
know see where that tops out.
And I, I enjoy the process.

(01:14:15):
I used to hate the process, butthe process is so much fun.
You know like being able tolike improve one percent more
every few days or every week, orcompounding workouts and seeing
like how much fitter you canget in certain amount of time,
and it's like, wow, this iscrazy, like I worked years for
this and it's well, we'll seewhat happens.
So yeah man, it's a great sport.

(01:14:36):
It's the best sport in theworld, that's for sure, yeah,
when.
When are I know you have furbabies yeah any babies, any
additions no man, you know theoh that actually hasn't come up
in it for we, I think we're,we're, I at the you're the first

(01:14:59):
person ever asked me this otherthan like uh other than family.
No, you got me um now dude noplans.
No plans as of right now.
Um, you know I'm a deeplyselfish person.
It's terrible.
I take my, I take I'm very busytoo, and's something I think I
you will probably use as anexcuse or a crutch, Um.
but I'm also deeply selfish inthe way that, like I really

(01:15:22):
covet and take so serious theamount of effort I put into my
training, um, and performanceand being in the mountains and
stuff like that.
That, like, dude, I would be aterrible father just because,
like, I'm just so focused onwanting to you know get better
get be a better podcaster or bea better runner um, I got you or

(01:15:43):
or be good at work I don't knowit's.
I don't know it's time time.
Yeah, the time is ticking too,because I am 34, so I don't know
.
The wife will probably listento this too.
We'll see.
We'll see the conversation thatcomes out of that.

Speaker 2 (01:15:57):
Last question, man.
Last question when are yougoing to be able to say you made
it?
What's it going to take?
What's it going to take for youto say you made it?
Man, you're top of your game,you've maxed out.

Speaker 1 (01:16:15):
What's it going to take?
Is this for podcasting or isthis for running?
What is this for all the above,all the above, dude, never
let's go podcasting.

Speaker 2 (01:16:24):
Let's go podcasting first it's never uh.

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
Well, here's the deal .
All right.
So if you really want to getinto the nitty-gritty of
podcasting, so, and if you dolisten to my podcast, you know
me and you know how I feel aboutlike, uh, what I do for a
living right, I hate corporateworld, the corporate world.
I work in the corporate world.
I work for a huge Fortune 500.
I work in corporate finance.
I think it's soul-sucking and Ihate it.

(01:16:47):
And for me, the greatest giftand the greatest piece of joy
that I could ever have is beingable to.
For me, at least piece of joythat I could ever have is being
able to uh.
For me, at least, the like whenI'll have kind of made it is if
I can take a step back fromthat and and have the podcast
full time.
That would be like the greatestgift I could ever get myself.
Will that happen?
I don't know.
That's why I work my ass off tobe able to see if we can make

(01:17:09):
that happen.
I don't know, but that wouldn'thave been making it, because
once you get there, like, uh,like, you have to worry about
your income.
Then, year over year, to like,you know, for these brands that
you know have shitty deals to beable to.
Yeah, that's a that's foranother conversation.
But, um, yeah, I am verythankful for the support of
ultimate direction I.

(01:17:29):
That's not what I meant by like.
I will say it is like it isvery difficult.
From podcasters I know that aremaking it, they're either
full-time living or extract asignificant amount of money.
It is a very difficult way tomake a living, so it's trading
one thing for another.

Speaker 2 (01:17:47):
But that said it does matter.

Speaker 1 (01:17:49):
It means a lot to be able to do that, and I think
it's even more so for me.
Um, just the excitement to beable to do something I truly
love, like I and I if you knowme like if anybody that knows me
is listening to this, like theyknow how much I love this sport
and how much I want to growthis thing and like see where I
can take this sport.
So to me, the short, the shortanswer is I'll never be

(01:18:11):
satisfied, I'll never be where Iwant it to be, just because
I'll constantly be obsessing andthen it's the same thing for
running.
Yeah, I've thought about thisfor a long time and I joke
around because, like my poorwife, every, every summer, it's
her.
Our summer schedule is dictatedby where.
Where am I going to race andwhat are you doing?
right and it's like you know,I'm 34 now and I've put rose

(01:18:32):
through this now for I don'tknow, five years.
Uh, and now, especially, like,as my life has grown around the
sport, and now that I'm aquote-unquote athlete, if you
will, um, you know, I have acertain expectations and
contracts that I have to abideby and follow.
If I want to, you know, pursuethat, so continue.
Yeah, I, I don't know.

(01:18:53):
I think for me what's going tohappen is, um, like I never
thought in a million years likeI'd be able to become a quote
unquote, like sponsored runner,if you will, right Now that I've
done that.
It's like the, the lore of thatis great, it's amazing to run
for a brand.
It's the support, is everythingI can ask for more, you know,
it's, it's so cool.

(01:19:16):
Um, eventually, like you got toremember to the way I think
about it, like there are so manyathletes in the sport that I
love and respect that shouldhave spots on these teams.
The second, that I feel likeI'm just taking up a spot that
deserves to be go to somebodyelse.
I'll, you know, gladly givethat spot to someone that
deserves it and you know, andI'll go on my way and continue
to grow the podcast.
There's some things I want tocheck off.

(01:19:37):
In the sport, like I do thinkmy cape, I haven't realized
capability wise, like what I amcapable of.
Like like last summer dude, alot of it was figuring out how
to actually race.
You know, a lot of the guys Iwas going up against are sub 14
minute 5k runners or sub 30minute 10k runners and it's like
fuck.
You know, like there's a steeplearning curve and learning how

(01:19:58):
to race these guys and gals.
You know some of the best subultra females athletes in the
world.
So like now that I feel like Ifinally overcome a lot of that
space and being able to like geta lot faster and improve a lot
and learn how to race and learnthe strategy, it'll never be
fully realized, like I'm nevergoing to be a hundred percent,
but like I will say that I wantto get a couple few more goals

(01:20:22):
that I have, like check off, andthen then I'm yeah, I'm just
going to focus on the podcastand you know, give that gladly,
give that spot to someone whowho deserves it and should be in
that space.

Speaker 2 (01:20:31):
So well, I'm.
I'm glad you decided to do thepodcasts and you're persevering.
Did you're successful?
You're killing it.
Continue doing that, dude.
Continue kicking butt in life,you know, with the wife and the
fur babies.

Speaker 1 (01:20:49):
Shout out to Robbie and Luna.

Speaker 2 (01:20:50):
Yeah, I want yep and I definitely uh want you on
around 300, if that's okay,because I'm hitting 250.
Never thought I'd be at 20.
You know, I never thought I'dbe past seven because that's how
far.
You know, podcasts are long,podcasts last or don't last, you

(01:21:11):
know.
And to even be near 250 says alot and you know the listeners
are loving it.

Speaker 1 (01:21:18):
I'm loving it it's a dude, it's a beautiful thing I
love what you do and it's youknow, I think we all have our
like niche of what we like tolike you, but you're I don't
know.
I think the thing I love aboutmiles and mountains to me is
like I knew shit about rodeosuntil I started listening to
your podcast, the road, and thenyou know you also introduced me
to other runners I would havenever heard about.

(01:21:39):
Obviously I knew who Bo Shelbywas from, you and I talking, but
I would have never known abouthim, Even Michael McKnight.
Chris Fisher I think the firstChris Fisher podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:21:47):
I ever listened to.

Speaker 1 (01:21:48):
Shout out to Chris Fisher what a good dude.
Yeah, the first Chris Fisherpodcast I ever listened to was
yours.
Yeah, dude, the first ChrisFisher podcast I ever had on
what or I ever listened to wasyours.

Speaker 2 (01:21:56):
Yeah, and Jason man.

Speaker 1 (01:21:57):
Jason, hard wrath Wow .

Speaker 2 (01:21:59):
And you had him on dude.

Speaker 1 (01:22:00):
That's awesome, bro, he you know, he twisted my arm.
He's coming on for episode 69,.

Speaker 2 (01:22:06):
I think in two days, something like that Sounds like
him.
Yeah, yeah, he sounds like him.

Speaker 1 (01:22:16):
Literally like I don't know astronomy or some,
some crazy mountain or somecrazy space shit and like the
Fermi paradox.

Speaker 2 (01:22:19):
And I was like dude, he has time, he, I guess he
recently hurt himself, so he hastime.
And dude, he's changing up abit.
Man, that age does that, dudeage does that.
But yeah, man, it's, it's.
Yeah, I appreciate you havingme on your podcast.
Man, I appreciate thisconversation.
Definitely been a little busylately with the podcast, but

(01:22:41):
more and more falling in lovewith it.
Man, it's never going to getold, whether I get sponsored or
not.
I'm not even sponsored, so it'sall independent and I just have
fun doing it.
Man, and sharing people'sstories is what I love and
continue sharing.
You know what you do and whatyou love.

Speaker 1 (01:23:00):
So thank you At the end of the day.
Like you know, I, I I just wantto let you know just how much
respect and admiration I havefor your story and, just like
your, your story of perseveranceto be able to have gone through
such a serious situation in thelast year.
Uh, you know, I just want youto know like how much I, you

(01:23:20):
know, hold that you know to sucha high level.
You know, uh, you're, you'resuper strong dude I really
expect that and it means a lotto me.

Speaker 2 (01:23:28):
Thank you for coming on yeah, I'm honored that you
have me on it and since you know, you know I'm, I'm, I don't fit
the status quo.

Speaker 1 (01:23:34):
Oh my God, just massive man For you.
It's listen, dude, you're thepot.
Like I said, you're the pot.
You're the one who came up.
You know, when I brought you tothe idea, you're like yeah, you
really need to to pursue this.
So thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:23:51):
Well, get it going, man.
Shout out to everybody that'slistening.
So shout out to James, man.
Thank you, James.

Speaker 1 (01:23:57):
Thanks, man Dude, thank you.
Have a wonderful night andlet's do the first amendment.
Yep, yep, we'll see you nexttime.

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