Michaela Trinidad Conquering Bigfoot: The Mental Game of 200-Mile Ultrarunning

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Kayla Trinidad how are you?

Speaker 2 (00:31):
I am soaking in a lot right now.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Well, you've been through a lot.
Yeah, to chop it up, becauseyou had a certain someone in the
community asking about betadetails on your recent adventure
or recent race, bigfoot 200.
I was like sure, why not?
But I didn't think it was goingto be.

(00:55):
I mean, yesterday was the finalday yeah, it finished.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
13 hours ago was the official cutoff right 11.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
From the time we're recording right now, it was 11
pm on man, I'm even lost in whatday it is, but it was 11 pm on
Tuesday that the cutoff was.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
Yeah, and you finish what day?
Sunday, monday.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Monday Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
I want everybody to know how much of a B BA, how you
know a badass you are.
You did it two days, two hours29 minutes.
Do you recall that I saw theofficial results?

Speaker 2 (01:34):
72, excuse me, 74 hours 74.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
So the official results on the yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
Ultra signup just posted.
Oh, it's ultra Sign-Up.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
I looked on Destination Trails.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
So 74 hours.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, that one was confusing.
It's like they took my last aidstation time maybe, and put it
in the finish time or something.
Yeah, it was.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
I didn't know they did Ultra Sign-Up.
I thought it was.
Destination Trails was justDestination, destination trails
and their own little get upthey're ultra sign you think you
spend so much money, you thinkthey would update the website
correctly.
Well, my bad.
When I saw it on destinationtrails, you, to put things in
perspective you were only fourrunners away from goggins.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
Four, four runners, guys, four runners away from
Goggins Four, four runners, guys, four runners.
I think the final results werea little bit more than that, but
I had in mind that he was upthere somewhere.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Yeah, what did he do 60 hours?

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Yeah, something in the 60s yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
I think your last aid station and then his finish.
It was only an hour away but,like I said, my bad Didn't know.
Ultra sign up and destinationtrails.
It's nothing yeah yeah, yeah,but still seeing that and you're
four behind.
Goggins says a lot, says a lot.

(03:00):
It's crazy.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
What.
There was just about every aidstation station.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
There was mention of Goggins yeah, well, goggins, the
man, he's been out.
He's been away for five yearsworking on his leg.
I mean, I forgot what he had.
Did he have, like some?
He had something wrong with hisleg that if he pushed in pushed
in his leg it would.
It looked like jelly almost.

(03:25):
It was like almost a foam, likehe slept on a foam.
Yeah, it's crazy.
Something happened to his leg.
I don't recall what it was, buthe took a step back after a few
few big races and said, hey,I'm gonna work on myself.
And then, man, I didn't thinkhe was gonna go silent.
And now he.
Now he's back and now he's justcussing up a storm.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
Is he out interviewing and?

Speaker 1 (03:51):
posting more content.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
Or you just mean like , just in general, that's how he
is.
Yeah, just in general, that'show he is.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
I mean, you know, surprise mother, you know.
Yeah, you know, it's like comeon and like right before he made
a video, right before he wentto the finish line, he was like
you'll make me sick, you know.
And yeah, yeah, yeah, he's apretty funny guy.
He'd be a fun guy to interviewor just be around and chit chat

(04:16):
not just take a picture, butchit chat, you know, see how he
is?
And, yeah, just only a couplebig names know how he really is.
But it's cool.
It's cool to know that he'sback and people are talking
about him and everything else,whether it's the people who love
him and also the haters.
I think he loves the hatersmore than he loves the people

(04:37):
that, like you know, ride hisshoulders.
Let's say, put nicer words.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
As far as like the comments about him being out
there, most people are like oh,did you get a picture?
Did you see, Goggins, did youhear him?
But my favorite comment wascoming up to Mount Margaret.
I was with Lance Harp, anotherlocal runner.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yep, yep, yep, shout out.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Yeah, and we were coming up to Mount Margaret.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
They had a photographer out there and the
photographer said I actually gotgoggins to crack a flight smile
, I think really.
But he said but I didn't get iton camera so there's no proof,
lies lies.
He got it on camera.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think Ithink goggins overall you know
great person I I think a lot ofits show.
I think deep down he is a greatperson and you know the cussing
and everything else aside, man,he's an athlete.
He's an athlete, but the waywith the cussing and the way he

(05:34):
is, it just you know betterexplains what he means.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
You know another I didn't realize that Is he.
Is he mostly just in the ultraworld?
Is that where he's a big figureIn my mind?
He's in so many spaces.
Yeah ultra or just hismessaging is so broad that it's
far beyond ultra.
But it seems like my family,other friends outside of ultra

(06:00):
running don't know who he is,don't know.
He's just in the ultra worldand it's surprising to me and
put his body to the world andit's surprising to me and put,
put in his body to the limit andthat's what happened to his leg
.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
I can't recall what happened because it's so far
long ago, but he's I think he'sa truer version of Cameron
Haynes.
Everybody knows Hank Haynes,you know, but I think Goggins.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
He Haynes, you know, but I think Goggins he's the one
that's just out there to do itwithout the show.
It's funny when I first metultra runners and started
getting into ultra running.
So basically, brandon Lott,okay, yeah, how long ago.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
Was that Not trying to age?
You just trying to figure outwhen you started getting in this
game, and now you're bustingout 200s like it's truth be told
, I'm on ultra sign up.
Anybody can find my age, okay,so no big deal right, yeah it's
all good so there's a lot ofpeople, a lot of podcasts out
there that like to do the ultrasign up.
Yeah, I, I don't do that.
I I, I try to look at that, butI I lost touch with ultra sign

(07:03):
up when it just didn't matter.
It just doesn't matter.
It's like any dog can have itsday and when you don't have your
day, you know they dock you forit.
You know that percentage.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
Oh, I wasn't even thinking about that.
I just mean from theperspective of finding races,
finding, looking for the nextadventure.
Okay, that's what you mean.
Okay, yeah, perspective offinding races, finding, looking
for the next adventure.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
Okay, that's what you mean, okay yeah, but a lot of
podcasts like to go back intothe person's ultra sign up like,
ah, that person doesn't matter,I'm not even gonna, I'm not
even gonna do them, I'm not evengonna put them on.
I'm not gonna put her on, I'mnot gonna do yeah, there's a lot
of people that do that theycheck your ultra sign up.
I, on the other hand, I don't't.
So my question when did youstart?

Speaker 2 (07:45):
2022 is when I met, is when I met.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
Well, no 2022, and now you're knocking out 200s
2022.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
What, okay, so in 2022, I had moved back to the
Tri-Cities.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
Dora Castaneda.
Shout out to her.
I follow her.
She's always out, she's alwaysoutside.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yes, I owe so much to Dora.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
So she and I had been connected about running for a
while, for years, through otherfriends.
And then she said, hey, Inoticed like it looks like
you're running back in theTri-Cities here for a while,
like are you moved back here?
What's going on?
And I said yeah, I'm back.
She said, well, come and runwith us 4.45 am, monday,

(08:36):
wednesday, friday, come join us.
I'm like, okay, I like morningrunning, that sounds great.
So I go out there and I thinklike the first morning or so
that I was out there, she's likeKayla, I'm running 100 miles in
two months and you need to doit with me.
And I was like you know what?
This is a once in a lifetimething.

(08:56):
I, yeah, I need to do it withyou, dora, yeah, and so we 2022.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
Three years passed and now you're busting out 200s.
Is this your first 200?
Yes, yeah, but then you knockedout the hundred, right, yeah,
okay, I won't go.
I won't ask what's next, but no, so what makes a person, three
years down the road, go fromzero to 200?

(09:24):
Well, there's been a lot inbetween.
Okay, a lot you moved.
I know you've moved back to newmexico yeah okay, and that's why
you're here, because you saidhey, just got done, bigfoot, got
tri-city, and you're gonna goback tomorrow.
So I was like I and you'regoing to go back tomorrow.

(09:45):
So I was like I can fit you in,let's go 12 o'clock.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
Here we are, here we are.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
So Dora and I did the Badger Mountain Challenge
together, and how awesomebecause we were training with
local runners and then to get tocelebrate with all of them at.
Badger Mountain Challenge.
I love the Badger MountainChallenge for that.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
And I love the Tri-Cities trail running
community when you move away andyou don't even realize what
you've got here until you moveaway.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
Right, I'll just say that I got you I got you.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
Yeah, right, we were talking about ultra sign up down
in.
I now live in New Mexico andwhen you search for races near
the Tri-Cities, if you search onultra sign up, I need to find a
race near the Tri-Cities.
Yeah, you get more results thanultra sign up can spit out,
right, okay, you search nearCarlsbad, new Mexico, where I

(10:44):
live, and I think you get eight,that's crazy.
Why is that?
Zero of them are 100 milersuntil, I think, 2024 was they
finally brought in a 34-hourevent?
I think they're just using.
Maybe they're just usingdifferent tools, but also there
are very few hundred mile eventsin new mexico.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
Is it the weather, maybe?

Speaker 2 (11:06):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
It has to be, but this is no different.
I mean, yeah, you knowEllensburg, you got the tree
line.
You have west side ofEllensburg, you got the east
side of Ellensburg.
Yes, you know each side hastheir seasons, but I'm curious
why Newxico wouldn't have asmany adventures you've been down

(11:30):
there recently, love it, eventhough they have a bad rep of
the least, I guess, the mostdangerous state in the nation.
Did you read that?
No, yeah, I did read that.
I'm going to check UltraSino,but I do follow a lot of New
Mexico news and that's one ofthe things I'm like where at?

(11:51):
Maybe Albuquerque, maybeRoswell, I'm not sure, but
outside of those two cities it'sa beautiful state.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
It is, it's a beautiful state.
It is, it's a beautiful state.
It is wild.
The license plates say the landof enchantment.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yes, it is, it is.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
The desert is enchanting down there.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
Yes, and I would say that the mountain towns are the
best.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
It reminds me of Tahoe actually.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
Riedoso.
Oh yes, riedoso.
Right, is that how youpronounce it?
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah, yeah, it reminds me ofTahoe a little bit.
Yeah, it's nice.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
And Taos.
You went up near Taos as well,right, yep, yep.
My husband and I were up thererecently.
Yeah, that's a great spot tovisit.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
Going back, but by myself, next spring break to
tackle the mountain by myself.
Not going with anybody.
Tired of that?
Okay, that is a different story.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah, so, michaela okay, sorry the goggins, no, no,
it's cool, it's cool no, it'sgreat because it makes it feel
like old times, you know.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
But yeah, goggins, you saw him from afar or you saw
him near I didn't.

Speaker 2 (13:04):
I don't know that I ever saw him, no you.
Or you saw him near.
I don't know that I ever sawhim, no you can't miss him.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
He's huge.
He's a huge guy.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
Out of all the ultra runners we stick out, but there
were 230 runners plus all thecrew and pacers and supporters.
There were so many people atthis event and I wasn't
particularly looking for youknow I was.
I had a couple of other localsfrom the Tri-Cities around me

(13:31):
and we I don't know we were, wewere doing our thing, you did
you did run.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
I watched it very carefully because I've been
cheering on Ben and trying toget Ben to just finish the race
a hundred or more and I waswatching and you did get some
miles in with him.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
You bet I did.
Yeah, that was part of the plan.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
Yeah, but then you got even some miles.
I don't know that he knew it,but that was part of my plan.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
Okay, I really wanted to share miles with the runners
that I knew that were out thereand do what I could to support
them.
But then, yeah, I I needed tohave, I needed to do my thing
too.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
Oh yeah, and it looked like.
You know, you guys were therefor a little bit, but then you
were smoking like, oh, mygoodness, it was like back to
the future.
You know when they go back.
You just flew by.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
And didn't look back.
Okay, so they made some coursechanges in the couple of months
leading up to this year'sbigfoot.
I don't know if they'repermanent course changes or if
that it seems like each yearthey have landslides probably
there were fires that causedsome of the changes.
The the first change, I don't.
I don't recall what the causewas.
Either way, we started out witha 12-mile segment, as in from

(14:49):
the starting line to the firstaid station was 12 miles.
Yeah that's nuts.
And then there was a 25-milesection and keep in mind you're
still right there by Mount StHelens.

Speaker 1 (14:59):
Right.
Oh yeah, the Luit Loop.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
Well, I've never been over there before.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
Oh it's, beautiful, yeah, it's crazy yeah.
It was so exposed.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
It was the grand tour of Mount St Helens.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we saw MountSt Helens from just about every
angle.
Oh yeah, and full-on experiencethrough the blast zone, through
lots of rocky sections all ofthat, the Luit Loop, lots of
rocky sections, all of that.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
A lot of people, you know, give the enchantments we
won't go there.
This, this one, we won't gothere, but the enchantments you
know, it's due, it's it, it'sglory, but there are so many
other loops or places in andaround the washington state that
you don't need a permit andlewitt.
Lewitt Loop is probably handsdown the most underrated loop or

(15:48):
trail system.
You can ever ask for.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
So you know, what was so cool is I got to do that 25
mile segment with Ben.
Oh, nice and so, yeah, we gotto share a lot of time together
and I hadn't really spent, youknow well, definitely not
one-on-one time with Ben, and sothat was just awesome.
I mean, he's such an awesomeperson and I knew that already
going into it, and then, likereally getting to know him, I

(16:13):
was like what a special dayHe'll give you the shirt off his
back, for sure.
And he, he's been out there onthat trail so much and he knows
all these fun factoids aboutMount St Helens.
It was almost like having atour guide, but like a fun one,
you know, not just a boring tourguide Really like the best kind
of tour guide out there is fun.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
Yeah, so you'd spent 25 miles.
Shout out to Ben, yeah, 25miles with Ben, and then you
didn't look back.
I mean, you were blazing, youwere blazing, I.
There's one person that I knowthat is on that basically did
the same thing not spend timewith ben and then blaze, but

(16:55):
just start, start at a moderatepace and then, while miles go,
just nonstop, nonstop, andthat's Deshauna Jo, did you?

Speaker 2 (17:06):
run into her.
I don't Again.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
230 miles, 230 runners.
There's only one Deshauna Jo.

Speaker 2 (17:12):
Yeah, I haven't met her.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
Shout out to her, she's a good friend.
She's the reason why, afterevery episode since she's been
on that I put a a missing andmurdered.
Indigenous awareness, womenawareness on there.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
I remember listening to that podcast.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
It was very inspiring to joe and saying how much it
mean to her like just life, youknow on the reservation and how
you know they they don't get asmuch help as they need, you know
and I know there's an issue.
So since then and to rise upfrom that yeah, yeah, and man,
she is powering through 200milers she did what was it she

(18:04):
did?
Did Cocodona?
She did Crazy Mountain?
I believe she did anothermountain right before a race,
right before this one.
Like I said I don't look atultrasound, but just don't.
But yeah, she just knocks themout.
And to ask her, when I askedher what her training was, did
you know what?
She told me she does 25 miles aweek.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
Yeah yeah, she just goes outside she doesn't run.

Speaker 1 (18:29):
She does run, maybe like on a saturday, sunday, yeah
, but she's just out 25 miles aweek.
That's crazy compared to a lotof other people yeah, yeah it.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
I guess, if that's what you do, what it takes to,
but she just has grit.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
Yeah, grit, and I'll say you how many miles.
Did you have a week trainingfor this?

Speaker 2 (18:57):
My training plans.
So I'd Okay, I'll just sayroughly 40 miles a week was the
goal.
I think maybe it went up to 60.
I don't even know, I don't.
I mean I track, I keep all thenumbers but I don't look at it
often enough to really know it.
Yeah, I think maybe I was doing40 to 60 miles a week.

(19:18):
But you know my, my trainingplans were set for roughly 40
miles a week and then life yeah,oh yeah, life, yeah, so so
mostly give or take.

Speaker 1 (19:30):
What was your average , and I'm not trying to dissect
it.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
I'm trying, I'm trying to put in perspective on.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
Like you know, people say more is more, more is
better, but I the more.
I am talking to the people whoactually do it, like Deshauna
Joe, a random forest runner.
I had him on, forgot his name,but he won Barkley, you know,
and everything else and he put60, 60 flat out flat and he's an

(19:57):
engineer, so you know he'sgoing to do flat and he's very
regimented and everything else.
But the more I talk, the more Ifind out.
Less is more.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
Less is better.
In general, I'm shooting forthe most mileage I can.
That fits with life.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
But it's probably right around 40 is about where I
can manage.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
Right, Hiking, running, all like just keep
moving, or do you Most?
Of?

Speaker 2 (20:30):
it's running, running .
But then you know, down inCarlsbad on the weekends I get
out to the Guadalupes a lot.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
Can't help but slow down Right.
And hike and enjoy it Gotcha.
Especially this year it's beenreally rainy, and that means
blossoming cacti everywhere it'samazing.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
Yes, nice, do you get the fruit?
They're more, it's more in thefall okay, yeah, the prickly
pears harvest the harvest whatdo you mean?
The flowers, oh, the pricklypears.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah have you ever tried?
Have you ever done?
Have you done that?
No, so the little spike,because they still have little
spikes on them and those thingsare so annoying because we've
I've done that right.
I've had family members comeand visit and it's charming,
like, hey, the prickly pears arein bloom, let's have some right
Trail side and those little,they're so fine.

(21:22):
And the name prickly they meanit.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
It's true.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
They just stick into everything and then you think
you got it off and you take abite and now it's like sticking
on your lip, your gums and yourteeth.
Yeah, never mind, but they'rereally great.
They taste somewhere between Ithink somewhere between a kiwi
and a raspberry.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
Yeah, and I also heard they make the best jam as
well.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
They're not bad, I don't know.
I think some people try tospike it with other fruit.
Gotcha, I call it spike.
But you know, they're mixing alittle raspberry to bump up the
flavor.

Speaker 1 (21:58):
Gotcha.
So what you're saying is it'ssour.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
It's sour, okay, or just I don't know, maybe if you
haven't picked the right ones,yeah, then you're not getting
enough fruit flavor.
That it's just kind of a, youknow, just a sweet, just a
generic sweetness, yeah so 40give or take?

Speaker 1 (22:17):
did you have that in mind?
What, what was?
Let's say mindset during gameday.
When that came, how many milesdid you think and believe you
were going to finish the firstday?

Speaker 2 (22:30):
Or do.
So I went into it with theintention of I was not going to
run the first day.
Okay, right, so we started atnoon Do?

Speaker 1 (22:39):
majority people run that.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
Depends on what you mean by the majority.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
Exactly, exactly, go ahead.
I'm sorry to cut you off.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
And I mean, in truth, be told, when I look at ultra
running, I do look at it as Ithink there's.
I think we're just seeing thebeginning of it, right.
I think there's from 2022, whenI started to.
In the last three years, it ischanging so much and 2025, even

(23:13):
2024, records are falling leftand right.
Oh yeah, right.
So we're just seeing thebeginning.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
I also think the reason why that is is PEDs.
I'll let you know it's notsanctioned and I'm not bringing
on anybody's parade, but untilthey figure that out, it's going
to be Destination Trail and youknow, Aravaipa, I'm going to

(23:41):
cover my ears and do the la, la,la.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
I'm pretending not to hear this because I like to
think that ultra running and thepure love of nature type trail
races and records going downbecause there's no, yeah, no,
uas for that.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
If once there's uas, a lot of people will not attend

(24:17):
and give out the money.
So, yeah, now is there a purse.
I've been wanting to ask you isthere a purse, purse for the
top three runners on destinationtrails?

Speaker 2 (24:29):
I don't know.
To be honest, I really don'tknow.
I know on a lot of other places.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
They have purses for people who win.
So I'm curious, if there's apurse, but once that purse goes
away, a lot of people won't showup too.
You know what I mean.
But once that purse goes away,a lot of people won't show up
too.
You know what I mean.
It really is messed up the moreyou look at it.
But am I taking away theirathleticism?
Nah, I'll tell you this I was ahuge fan of Lance Armstrong

(24:58):
Still am.
Did he have help?
Yes, but man, that didn'tchange the way how he went up
those hills and the mountainsand rode like nobody's business.
You help, yes, but man, thatdidn't change the way, how, how
he went up those Hills, themountains and road like nobody's
business you know right.
Barry bonds, you know didn't.
Or Jose can say go, mark, whydidn't it help them on the speed
of the bat?
Or the pop off the bat?
Yeah, you know locate, you knowthe ball on the bat to get it

(25:21):
over, and also I don't know it,just it's fun to watch, but it's
also, I feel, is killing thesport too.
And that's just me and sorry tosay this on your podcast, no
it's the truth.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
You can start to see it more and more that there's
almost two fields.
In my opinion, there's twodifferent sides of ultra trail
running.
That you see.
You see the side, the oldschool, where it's just you and
nature and you're taking on thatbattle, yeah.
And then there's the side whereyou've got all of the tech and

(25:57):
the pressure to perform and thepacers, the crew and getting
everything perfectly dialed inand get your blood tested and
your sweat tested and all that.

Speaker 1 (26:07):
Yeah Right so.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
I'd say I'm old school.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
Yeah, it's coming down to the high school too.
You know that right Coaches areasking for blood tests so they
can get the iron right and allthat other stuff.
Yeah, and that's a lawsuitwaiting to happen.
But there are schools, eliteschools, in the top 25 of high
school I'm just saying of highschoolers, the high school realm
doing blood tests.

(26:32):
That's crazy.
Wow, that's nuts.
For parents to even agree for acoach to get the you know the
results, that's unheard of.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
No, I'm not that person, you know I love this
idea of you know, pushing thelimits, raising the bar right
and and just like, and pullingas a team right to like, just
bring it up a notch andencourage others that we can all
raise it up.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Oh yeah, and there are the people who we're talking
about.
They do do that, but there'sthe ugly side.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
I like the side of it though of raise it up in the
purest way with raw grit.
Deshauna, Jo grit.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, show me the UA, yeah, show me
the UA, yeah, show me the UAyeah so three years in.
Right, yeah, three years in,and I think there was a course
record this year on BigfootKillian.
Did he make the cut, the courserecord?

Speaker 2 (27:45):
Oh, again, I'm sorry I'm still digesting so much, I'm
not.
He probably did that guy isamazing.

Speaker 1 (27:52):
Yeah, yeah, did you see, did Ashley.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
Paulson also must have gotten awfully close.
She was top 10.
Oh yeah, I mean, that's veryimpressive for a woman to be up
there in the top 10, such astrong field up there, men and
women.
Oh, yeah, so just veryimpressive for her to to push it
to that limit, yeah.

(28:15):
But yeah, you know, and hedidn't he just break the killing
.
Sorry, back to killing.
Didn't he just break the recordat Tahoe?

Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yes, yeah, yeah, it's crazy, it's crazy.
But so, like, as I was watchingyou and Ben, you guys were like
mile 20 to 30 together, right,and majority of the pack was
around there to 50.
Killian and Avery Collins andBrody Well, avery shot up front

(28:48):
for a while, right, but thenKillian, how it looked, he was
in the 70s, he was like 30 milesaway from the top dog, okay,
and then all of a sudden fromlast time I saw it, when he was
in the 70s with the main pack,like Goggins and all that stuff
he shot up 30 miles and thenended up 10 miles ahead of Avery

(29:11):
Collins.
I'm like wow, did Avery take along nap or get sick?

Speaker 2 (29:15):
or something.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
But it was nuts that he did like almost 60 miles like
that.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
So okay, so there's a couple different factors you
have to consider when watchingthose live streams.
I know one of the aid stationsI came into and they said my
tracker was not functioning sothey had to go and make some
adjustments on it.
And then I know too, when Ifinished, I think it said I was
still back to aid stations whenI would actually cross the
finish line already.

(29:41):
Yeah, so there's, there's thatright live tracker.
The the spot trackers do glitcha little bit everywhere.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
Did you see that they had been everywhere?
Yeah, like he was off track, hewas like miles off track.
But I looked on others and,yeah, ben was the only one that
looked like he messed upsomewhere.
I'm like, oh, it even lookedlike he got a ride somewhere.
It was it's weird.
But then you looked oneverybody else's and they were
just fine.
Oh weird, yeah, but you thinkyou spend that much money.

(30:13):
You think they're, they'll beflawless I don't know that
there's.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
I don't know that there's a spot tracker system
out there yet that has.
That's accurate.
That's that's.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
If you look, they're pretty good if you look at the
pack there there's theleaderboard, but then there's
like oh gosh, I forgot how itwas.
But if you look at theleaderboard on destination
trails you'll see there's thislittle icon right by leaderboard
somewhere around there.
You can see on everybody's paceand momentum.

(30:46):
And you look at Killian's, atthat time it just surpassed
everybody.
Maybe his tracker was messed up, but the guy, he was in the
pack, and then all of a suddenhe's 10 miles ahead of the pack.

Speaker 2 (31:01):
And then he's in the zone, flying from the pack.
Do you know roughly whatmileage that was at?
And then he's in the zone.
Yeah, flying from the pack.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
Yeah, do you know roughly what mileage that was at
the surge?
Yeah, it was from 70 to 110.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
70?

Speaker 1 (31:16):
70, because he was in the pack.
Okay, he was in the pack withthe gang, with the front.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
There was really fun terrain from about mile 70 to
100.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
Yeah.
Right, yeah, it's the kind ofstuff that you would fly on if
you're, if you're used to, Thenthat that's probably what he did
, because it was.
If you saw the momentum hisjust skyrocketed.
I mean, it was almost a 90.
Yeah, and then you said to 110,yeah, the 110 and then he
didn't look back.

(31:50):
It was almost avery caught him.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
They were like probably a three to four miles
apart and then killian, justyeah, out of the water, oh yeah.
And then at 110, you hit thisunbelievable.
I surprised you remember ashocking wall?

Speaker 1 (32:02):
Yeah that, that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
There's what I remember are like the spots that
were exceptionally fun and thenthe spots that were
exceptionally not fun.
Yeah, or I shouldn't say notfun, but just surprising
challenges.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
I should say what was the most challenging thing?
Like for that Tricidian thatasked for some beta, what was
the most challenging about it?

Speaker 2 (32:28):
You wouldn't believe this, but I think the number one
, my opinion, I've heard others.
Well, in others that I wastalking to at the finish line,
others who finished, I thinkthere was general agreement that
there was about seven-milesection.
That was a very mild climb.
But those who were doing thatat the same time as I was, we

(32:52):
were doing that overnight andthat was night number three.
Uh-huh, it was brutal.
I had every intention.
Until I hit that seven-milesection.
I was planning to just keeppushing through the last two aid

(33:12):
stations and just get done.
Why?
Because I just wanted to bedone.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
From about Sunday morning.
I was like I have plenty oftime, but I just want to be done
.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
I was just going to push on through, but that seven
miles of it was just a mile.
It was a mild uphill.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
But it was just something about it was so
monotonous.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
And that was one of the that was the last minute
course change that they had tomake no complaints.
Right, destination Trail.
You did what you had to do.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
Kansas is good at what she does, make no
complaints.
Right destination trail.
You did what you had to do.
Kansas is thankful.
Yes, did what you had to do.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
The big bucks but I also I also did it wrong.
There I was, I still had somepretty good momentum came up on
a pack of runners and thought,well, it's nighttime, maybe I'll
, maybe I'll, you know, havesome company here for a little
bit.
But then they were at more of awalking hiking pace and I was

(34:09):
still like an easy jog on thismild uphill.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
Jogging uphill guys, not power hiking jogging uphill
guys.
Okay, keep going, keep going.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
But I slowed down just to have some company for a
little bit and it just, you know, it just that was just another
segment of not going at, youknow, going at a different pace,
and all that than what I hadtrained at, and I think my body
was just like nope.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
Overexerted a bit.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
Yeah, and that's where.
So somewhere in that sevenmiles my knee said no, thank you
and that was what mile againseven miles before twin sisters.
I should just have the aidstation chart right so twin
sister?

Speaker 1 (34:59):
is that the?

Speaker 2 (35:00):
second to last aid station.
Second to last.
Yeah, I am going to pull theaid station.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
So you have, like what?
Less than 20 miles left.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
No, because from.
Twin Sisters, you have 27 milesto go.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
So less than 30.
Yeah, so 30.
Okay, yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
So I guess you're about 170.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
So you could easily have said okay, my knee is shot,
I'm done.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
Could have, but I was like there's no way.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Right.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
You don't have that much time left and you know, go
in and say I'm done.
You go to the aid station andyou start problem solving.
What are we going to?
All right, what tools do I havehere to help me out?
And I was waiting for a medicbecause it was middle of the

(35:47):
night when we got to twinsisters waiting for a medic to
to talk to them, see if we couldtape it up or something, and I
fell asleep.
And I have no idea how manyhours.
I'm pretty sure I was theresomewhere between two to five
hours sleeping well, that's good.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
It was much needed.
Well, I you know, what yourtime?

Speaker 2 (36:05):
I woke up and my knee felt a lot better.
I still taped it, just yeah,just, you know reassurance, but
I don't know, it was a littlebit disappointing because again
I had, I had the mindset cominginto it like I could just, I can
just get a little caffeine,just enough to just keep pushing
through 27 miles.

(36:26):
After all that, like it'snothing but you had the goal
right.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
You had a goal to finish.
At what time, when?
And I and I talked to you aboutit through text what?
What was the time?

Speaker 2 (36:38):
so I I thought that sub under 80 hours was was a
pretty comfortable goal for me.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
I had stretch goals that I maybe could have.
Well, you have to.

Speaker 1 (36:50):
Yeah, within the 200 mile range yeah, come on.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
Give yourself some credit, give yourself some
credit.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
Okay and how?
All right, 80 hours Under 80.
And so what did you end upgetting?
You did six or seven.
74 hours Under 80.
And so what did you end upgetting?
You did six or seven 74 hoursand nine minutes.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
Yeah, so beat it by about six hours.
Are you happy with that, yes,because I had a plan and I got
to stick to that plan and then,if nothing else, that plan just
got elevated because I had somesurprise yes, yes, okay, people
from the running community, yes,and anybody from the new mexico

(37:34):
running community come see youno, they had, they were.
They were blowing it up on on.
You know we have.
We have groups out there onfacebook and strava and they're
blowing it up on.
You know.
We have groups out there onFacebook and Strava and they're
blowing it up out there likewith all their support.
And I didn't have any kind of.
I kept my phone on airplanemode the entire time, so I had

(37:55):
no connection with all that, butI knew that there was a
positive vibe coming through.
You could still feel it.
People were watching it, yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
I was watching it.

Speaker 2 (38:06):
I was watching it.
Yeah, I was watching, I waswatching.
But yeah, new mexico has beenincredibly supportive and yeah,
look at the terrain yes.
So the interest interestingthing is down in carlsbad
there's no running groups,there's not even a.
There's not even a.
I haven't seen that there's aconsistent annual 5k like a road

(38:31):
5k.
Yeah, every town has a 5k.
Carlsbad does not have aconsistent annual 5k that I've
seen funds.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
I mean, is it, what is it?
Is it all political, you like?
Is it bureaucratic nonsensetrying to get something going
with, you know, the city ofCarlsbad to get a race going?

Speaker 2 (38:52):
I don't know, I don't think it's that.
I think when you look at what'sgoing on in the Tri-Cities, you
see people in the community whohave such a passion for it that
they just make it happen andthey sustain it because they
love it.
And we're starting to findwe're starting to build that in
carlsbad, so maybe it's I.

(39:14):
I'm trying, you know, as muchas I, as much as I can, I yeah,
I bring a passion to it yeah,you do for the three years.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
I thought it was longer but, man, the more I I
interview the runners.
You know, as of lately, theyall started 2018 or later you
know, not like 2010 or, you know, early 2000s okay, so maybe I
should back.

Speaker 2 (39:41):
There's a couple of small snapshots before the 100
miler.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
Okay, in 2021, there was one race I did in the
Tri-Cities Because at the time Iwas living in Virginia, right
near the Appalachian Trail.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
But I came back.
We happened to be here in Marchof that year, so I ran the race
up the snake.
At that time it was oh yeah.
Now it's shifted to Lalique.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
Yep, yep so.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
I ran that it's.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
Albertson's race.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
Mm-hmm, yep, yep, okay, I was two months
postpartum when I ran that.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
Ladies, they're amaze me Okay.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
Well, I'm going to give you one more nugget that
will blow your mind, because itstill blows my mind and I'm not
saying this to brag, but I justwant to put this out there
because, women, you have so muchmore strength and power in you
than you even realize.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
Oh yeah, Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
It was two months postpartum.
Women, you have so much morestrength and power in you than
you even realize.
Oh yeah, absolutely, it was twomonths postpartum.
I set the Strava record on thegoat hill Really.
It is, I can't break it.
Nobody has broken that recordyet.
Is that the year that it wasblizzard no.
It was really cold.
Okay, the blizzard that day.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
I will never forget the blizzard.
That day I will never forgetthe blizzard race there.
No, it was fun.
I think a lot of people wouldforget that.
Yeah, yeah the lady, what youwere saying.
Yeah, ladies, do have more thanwhat they have.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
They just have to get it.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
Yeah, and you got it, you got it, you got it and
congrats, congrats well, andespecially after you do, if you
have the opportunity or if it'sright for you to become a mom
and you go through thechildbirth process.
There's a lot of like lessonsabout your body and all that

(41:43):
that you get to gain that youcan carry into other aspects of
life.
So there's a lot of likelessons about your body and all
that that you get to gain thatyou can carry into other aspects
of life.
So there's that too yeah,anyway, proof, okay.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
so the least favorite part, or the challenging part,
was a seven miles, 30, less than30 miles away from the finish,
but you did it.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
You know, let me just give you more perspective on
this.
Okay, so again, we're doing ourbest to charge up this long,
long, slow hill, and it's likeevery race has its spot where
there's all this carnage, andthis hill in the middle of the

(42:27):
night was the spot for thecarnage.
I mean, over the course of everymile, throughout that seven
miles, somebody was on the sideof the road sleeping or puking,
or something Like every singlemile there was a body, yeah, so
it was like the stretch ofcarnage.

(42:49):
There was one person who youknow I, he as I was, as I was
coming by him, he said all right, I'm gonna try to keep pace
with you for a little while,right, and so he picked up with
me and then, after a while, Ithink, he said he needed to go

(43:10):
close his eyes for a minute.
So he became carnage for a fewminutes.
What was cool is then I don'tknow some 15, 20, 30 minutes I
don't know how much longer hecame cruising by, right, he just
needed that little power napand he's like I'm so done with
this, I'm just going to run thisout and did he.

(43:30):
Yeah, he, yeah, he made it up tothe top, maybe 20 or 30 minutes
before I, before I got there,but it was just.
It was inspiring, right, hewere feeding off of each other's
energy.
I was, I had it, and then hehad it, and then I picked up on
his energy again.
It was good.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
Yeah, so what after the seven miles or during the
seven miles of struggle?
What mindset, I mean.
What flip of a switch did youdo?
I mean, what do you tellyourself to completely finish
the race instead?
Of you know saying I quit.

Speaker 2 (44:05):
Well, at that point you're like it's only after all
this, like there's just one moreaid station.
Yeah right, just get to onemore aid station.
Oh oh, it's 16 miles.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
I'm terrible I should know you're good, I'm gonna
call it 16 miles.
Yeah, you know, bigfoot, mind I.
I mean days from finishing.
Yeah, a day or two fromfinishing and now you're on a
podcast.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
But here was the added challenge for that 16
miles To get all right 16 milesto the next aid station and then
11 miles to the finish.
Yeah, you know, if you breakthat down over the course of a
200, 16 miles, that's all right,that's manageable.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
Yeah, and then anything in that perspective, in
that mindset yeah, it'smanageable.
Yeah, now if you werestruggling, at 110, then.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
And in my mind, the we had already gone through the,
through the bulk of the climbsright, Right For roughly 42,000
feet of elevation gain total.
We have gone through.
There was still one morePompeii, but I felt like we were
, for the most part, close tothe last.

(45:19):
Maybe there was another 2,000or 3,000 feet of climbing, I
don't know.
Not that much, not that much.
So one last climb and thenwe're all downhill.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
Yeah, right, and that's why you kept telling
yourself that, yeah, you kepttelling yourself.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
Downhill is so fun.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
Downhill after 42,000 feet Okay.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
It's funny, that's my , that's my joke, every joke,
every every mountain race.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
I'm like I'm here for the downhill party yeah, no, it
that that it hurts after awhile it hurts.
You know people are finding outreal quick on asgard pass.
I say asgard, a lot of peoplesay I say it wrong.
But just recently somebodytried to go down asgard Pass and
ended up breaking an ankle downthe wrong.

(46:07):
It's like come on, you don't dothat yeah so.
But yeah so you learned a lot.
You still learning, stillrecovering, yeah, mentally.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
I tell you what coming out of Twin Sisters into
that 16 mile segment, right, soI had a rough patch coming into
twin sisters, had a goodre-energizing visit there.
Yeah, I'm like, okay, got myknee taped, got refueled, ate a
bunch, got my pack all ready togo.
Let's do this yeah there's abig garbage can right there.

(46:40):
As I'm exiting the aid stationThrew up in it three times.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
I've never thrown up running Good thing there than 99
, mile 99 or mile 78.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
Maybe Maybe I don't know, it can really I mean
mentally and emotionally andphysically destroy you, yeah, I
guess, and I was just like, well, I guess that was just another
step in the process, let's go.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
Yeah, right.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
Because I was just so determined to be done?

Speaker 1 (47:10):
Was it nerves, you think?

Speaker 2 (47:13):
I maybe between I had I had just drank a lot of water
at that aid station, Okay, andI think I don't from from from
all I've listened to and learnedthrough about trail running,
there's this balance and this isone of the key balances in
ultra and trail running If youtake too much water without

(47:34):
enough electrolytes, you'regoing to be puking.
If you take too muchelectrolytes in your hydration,
it's going to be coming out theother end too much.
So there's this perfect balance.
And then every race is going tobe so different, because when
it's hot you're going to needmore of the electrolytes, but
then yeah, but then if it's highin elevation you need more

(47:55):
electrolytes, but then you knowthere's so many balances, but
you figured it out though.
For a good chunk of the race,but then I don't know, there's
always there's too many factors.
You killed it though.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
You killed it.
Shush, you're top 10 of females, correct?

Speaker 2 (48:16):
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
Female number nine there you go, give yourself some
credit.
I know it's only a day or twofrom from, you know your
complete race, but still it'slike are are you understanding
what you just did?
Or do you understand the 200miles and what?

(48:41):
How many hours?

Speaker 2 (48:42):
74 something like this, to me, is so surreal, like
the fact that the fact that wethat I, I through that yeah,
that I have that, that I get todo things like that is just
surreal yeah like leading up tothe starting line.
Yeah, is this really happening?

(49:04):
At the finish, did that reallyhappen?

Speaker 1 (49:07):
I don't know do you think you can do that without
race?
Can you go on your ownadventure like that, or do you
need a race to push yourself theway you just did?

Speaker 2 (49:20):
you mean.
So, if I, if I understand thequestion right, you're asking
could I run 200 miles in 74hours just on my own?

Speaker 1 (49:29):
yeah, good, or could you have as much excitement as
you did in just a regularadventure, that's don't have to
pay two thousand four thousanddollars oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
Yeah, that's every weekend, okay.
So maybe to help put it intoperspective, to be able to fit
ultra running into my life andto be able to get the training
in and do it in a way thatspeaks to I.
Do it because I love it, right,okay, and so my training runs.

(50:01):
I want those to be somethingthat I love also.
It right, okay, and.
And so my training runs.
I want those to be somethingthat I love also.
I don't I I really have a hardtime just running out the front
door because that's, that's justnot.
I don't have a love for.
It's not fun.

Speaker 1 (50:12):
My neighborhood yeah, it's not fun.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
I did it this morning and but you know it's toward an
end goal, it's towards somekind of a goal that there's a
love for that goal, whateveryou're you're heading for.
So sometimes what I will dojust to be able to do the
training the way that I love Iwill, with with amazing loving
support from my husband I willget the kids off to bed and then

(50:40):
I go pack everything up, gosleep at the trailhead and get
up at three in the morning, getmy miles in and try to get home
before noon.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
That's how.
That's the way to do it.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
That's how I do it.

Speaker 1 (50:55):
Yeah, when I was not cancer and injured.
Yeah, that's what I did always,or I'll leave at three o'clock
in the morning, get by thetrailhead or on the trailhead
before like eight.
If anything after eight.
It's like oh God, it's not good.
I'm doubting myself or like I'mlike OK, I need to get this mile
in to this so I can be home bysix at the evening, but that's

(51:19):
awesome.
Yeah, so you're.
You're one of the originalpeople that go from sleep at the
trailhead, get the earlymorning start and then be done
by noon or be back.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
Yeah, because I want a good chunk of that day with my
family.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
Yeah, yeah, Totally good Now.
I always got a complaint ofbeing too tired when I get back
and not being functional.
Yeah, I had to change that up abit.
So what I did was continue tosleep at the trailhead, not
drive early in the morning.

(51:56):
But sleep or you know, drivethat evening, the next morning
wake up and then that makes abig difference, don't you?
think yeah, oh, a hugedifference.
So I always will go to thetrailhead the night before, fall
asleep and then start like buckcrack at dawn, like four or
five o'clock.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
Yeah, when, when your family and those around you can
kind of wrap their minds aroundthe fact that that actually
does make more sense to do itthat way, it it?
Yeah, that's it.
All in all, it works out betterfor the next day being able to
have a better day with thefamily.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
For sure.
And, uh, one of the one of thetraining grounds that I am
mostly talking about is SmithRock.
I will drive there and be backby five o'clock in the evening
and, do you know, do 24 milesand come back by five.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
Like it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
I can't do it anymore .
I can't do it, I can't do it,but totally understand what
you're saying Now, are 200s thelimit or are you going to push
it?

Speaker 2 (53:01):
So, to be honest, right around mile 150, 160, I
was having so much fun on thattrail I mean there's Said no one
ever but you.
But right around and ironically,maybe that slow forest road
climb had to do with it butright around 150, 160 I I also

(53:25):
decided that that's probablyabout as far.
That would be my preferreddistance.
I don't, I don't think I needto do another 200 for a while.
It's it's not my thing.
You know what it really was.
The hallucinations, yeah, I,after a while I could not enjoy
the wilderness the way that Itypically like to.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
Yeah I, daytime or nighttime, it did not matter
daytime hallucinations are worsethan nighttime in my book, and
the reason why is because whenyou're at night you have the,
the flash or the, you know thelight, sure you only have, you
only see things in front of youyeah, daytime hallucinations
you're, oh wow you see it fromyour peripheral.

(54:09):
Yeah, it's the worst feelingever.
So I understand, and philiplowry, who ran the race with you
as well this year, talked andother people have talked about
bigfoot 200, that one, becauseyou're on like this, uh, native
land, the hallucinations runhigher in that area than any

(54:31):
other place forgot what it'scalled.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
But but uh by chances , lewis river or quartz ridge,
I'm not, I'm not sure where itwas.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
I know it's heavily wooded and it is a section that
people have that I've put on thepodcast, talked about that area
, yeah, and they start seeingthings and, yeah, it's mostly at
night.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
And it was.
It was, I mean, it was everytime I would look up from the
dirt underneath my foot.
Something was and it wasn't.
It wasn't scary or anythinglike that, it was just.
It was just.
I didn't, I didn't need it,yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
It's like you're tripping, yeah, I mean, you know
.
Yeah, it's like you're onsomething and all you're on is a
caffeine, electrolytes, water,caffeine.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
And then you're, you're like well, I'm tripping
balls, but I'm not even onanything and lots of wraps yeah,
okay, so what overall?

Speaker 1 (55:34):
what did you learn in your 200?

Speaker 2 (55:38):
the sleep.
The sleep element was very andI heard this over and over and
over leading into it that thesleep part of it was different.
Everybody that I met who haddone 200s you know they knew
that I'd run hundreds but not200s and so that was their first
question what's your sleepstrategy?
Yeah, I had done hundreds thatare longer, hundreds that are

(56:06):
longer.
So in those I had theexperience of, okay I'm just
when my body is like fallingasleep on the trail, I'm either
going to take a quick trail napor I will just try to keep it to
like a 15 minute here and therewhen I need it, or whatever my
body needs when I need it.
That's what I'm going to do.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
Were the trail naps easier or difficult than you
thought?
That's what I'm going to do.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
Were the trail naps easier or difficult than you
thought.
I ended up not sleeping at atrail nap as in like just
finding a soft patch.
Yeah, I ended up not doing anytrail naps.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
That's dangerous.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
I don't know how people do it.
It's a matter of need.
If it's needed, you just do it.
Yeah, I take that back.
I did, I did, I don't.
Maybe I slept, maybe not I.
On the on again, the, the, theforest road, the, the infamous

(56:56):
seven mile forest road yeah.
I stopped and was stretching mylegs and I actually even sat
down to like do some some goodhamstring stretches and all that
, and I let my eyes close whilestretching.
So I don't know if that countsas stretching or sleeping.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
Both.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
Yeah, stretch sleep.
But also, speaking of sleep,I'm pretty convinced that you
can sleep while walking.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
Yeah, while walking You're doing that.
Yeah, I mean, I have my polesout, I'm just Walking, you were
doing that.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
Yeah, I mean I have my poles out.
I'm just in such a rhythm goingup that road.
I'm just like I'm just going toclose my eyes and move.

Speaker 1 (57:32):
And you didn't find yourself like a drunken person
you know, going side to side,Not too bad.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
The road was.
It was a, you know, for aforest road.
It was in pretty good condition.

Speaker 1 (57:49):
Good thing there wasn't a cliff, there were well
okay, I might have made somedifferent decisions if there was
a cliff, but quite a few cliffs, that's what I'm saying like
wow, that's, that's dangerous.
Yeah, you did it, you did it.
So for that tricidian who wantsbeta, people who are listening
overall and thoughts results,what what have you thought of
like?

Speaker 2 (58:10):
I know like what's the secret?

Speaker 1 (58:11):
yeah, yeah.
What's the trick?

Speaker 2 (58:12):
well, yeah, and how did you do it mental?
It is like purely, yeah, I andit's not even.
It's not even like, oh, I'mmentally strong or anything it's
.
I'm mentally coming into thislike this is just a mission or
this is something I have to do.

(58:33):
I think I had thought about itso much, leading into it, of why
I wanted to do it, that I wasconvinced that I just I had to
do it.
I had no other options, rightAlmost to the point of it being
like life or death in a way,like I just I have to do this.
There was no doubt in my mindthat I I mean, okay, in all

(58:54):
fairness, there were a lot ofunknowns about what I was going
to face, and I respect that.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
Yeah, you have to but you conquered it though.
You conquered it, yeah, but youmade it.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
But I just think have to, but you conquered it though
.
You conquered it all.
Yeah, you made it, but I justthink that is so, so you made it
your own.
I can't stress that enough,though that how important that
is, to have no, to have your why?
Okay, I think that that holdstrue for 100 miles and for 200
miles.

Speaker 1 (59:19):
And what was your?
Why, if you don't mind measking three years in it and
you're doing a 200 mile what isyour why?

Speaker 2 (59:28):
you know, the why for when I signed up was different
than the why for when I ended upis it to show your daughter
that you're capable?
No, I would love, I would loveit if she's, if she isn't,
whatever she chooses to do, thatshe chooses to do something and
endures and, you know,perseveres into whatever she
chooses to do.

(59:49):
But when I first signed up, weit was actually a group of us
from the Tri-Cities we hadsigned up for the Tahoe 200 for
2024.

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
And it snowed out right, wasn't it, no, weathered
out?

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
I had a family event come up.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
A very celebration.
My sister became the commanderof the USS Constitution.
Oh, wow, so we were celebratingin Boston.
Heck, yeah.
Yes, so I could not be in Tahoewhen I was celebrating in
Boston.
Yes, so I could not be in Tahoewhen I was celebrating in
Boston, but that meant that Ihad to defer my destination
trail entry.
I didn't have to, but I choseto, and when I stopped to think

(01:00:33):
about it, the destination trailrace that I wanted and preferred
was Bigfoot.
Right when I talked to BrandonLott and Matt Newton, the gurus-
Giddy up.
They said that was the one thatwas I'd take.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
Tahoe.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
I'd take Tahoe yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
Over Bigfoot.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:56):
I'm not a, it's just different.
It feels different.
It's just different.
Scenery Helen's is beautiful.
Different, it feels different,it's just different.
Scenery helens is beautiful,but the back, the back country,
from tahoe to washington or sanluis I love the idea of this
dark, thick forest, and you knowhow that's where, challenging

(01:01:20):
that's where challenging.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
That sounds I got you and and my mindset going into
it was like I'm gonna think ofthis dark forest as embracing
right.
It's almost like this.

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
This forest is like yeah, would you have done it
without your entourage?
Yeah, yeah you would have doneit without anybody, like lance.
And yes, you've really yes.

Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
Okay, In fact, that was my plan up until just a
couple days before, and then Ihad no idea that Lance Colby and
Natalie were going to be there.

Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
Okay, so it was a surprise.

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
It was Well.
Again, it was a nice surprise.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
Huge surprise.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
Like I said, I'm more old school.
Huge surprise.
Like I said, I'm more oldschool.
I like this idea of out thereand conquering whatever it is
that you are going to face.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
And not try to.
But don't get me wrong.
I welcome Pacers, crew and allthat for them to have an
experience.
I got you.
If somebody wants to see whatis a Bigfoot like I, welcome
them to come and have anexperience.
I got you.
If they, if somebody wants tosee what is a bigfoot like I, I
welcome them to come and andhave an experience you want to
know what a bigfoot is, just dothe 20 mile or the 40, yeah,

(01:02:31):
yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
Yeah, you know a lot of people don't do the cutoffs.
They get the cutoffs on the 40miler.
No, yeah, when I did it,there's a 40 mile.
Or a lot of people didn't makecut off because there's a rope
section.

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
Oh, I know what you're talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
Yeah, if you weren't on that rope at a certain
section, they will cut you off,and that was like half the fuel.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
I got a great picture of Ben on that rope.
Yeah yeah, nice, that was good.

Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
Yeah, it's different.
Destination Trails is quite theDestination Trail LLC or
organization, whatever they haveat the end of it.
But yeah, definitely, if youwant to experience it, not
full-fledged in the 200, just dothe 20 or the 40.

(01:03:18):
You get your cake and eat ittoo, and then you'll find out
that your 20-miler it lasted sixhours or less or seven hours.
And you're okay with it yeah.
You're okay with it because youdid it.
That's the toughest 20 milesyou'll ever do.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
Yes, for real, even.
I mean even, or even just to.
You don't even have to sign upfor the race, just to go there,
be there among those amazingtrail people, just do a little
loop and yeah, like go.
Hey, I just want to go see whatthis section of the course is
like and just go check it out.
Yeah, all the information aboutthe course is out there on the

(01:03:56):
internet.

Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
Yeah, but I think a lot of people need that race
just to like push them, pushthem.
They just need that, that pushfrom a race that they can't get
when not in a race.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
You think about some of the elements that come in,
like the camaraderie.
Right, there's other people whoare, who are facing the same
challenges.
Yeah, the, the aid stations,the aid, oh, the volunteers do
so much, right, you, you come inand they've got a full menu.
They've got hot food, colddrinks everything you could

(01:04:31):
imagine Outside of BadgerMountain Challenge.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
They got the best entourage out there and Jason
Rutherford does a good job forBadger Mountain Challenge.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
Does an outstanding job.

Speaker 1 (01:04:47):
It is shout out to jason, the best in the pacific
northwest yes, I would say so,but I best in washington state
by far.
So do you think we gave yourfriend enough beta or do we need
to go more?

Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
It's more mental, so one more thing that was a shock
to many of the many of the the200 milers right after you've
hit a hundred miles Right, andso this was, this was a.
This was a fun thing forsomeone like me who's not done a
200 miler right after you'vereached 100 miles a lot of

(01:05:24):
people haven't done two right,okay, so so you get to so you
get to the lewis river aidstation, 101 miles.
The next section you're going upto quartz ridge and it's 18
miles, right after you just hit100 miles, right.
And so now you're like, okay,now I, now I'm going to a new
limit and the last.

(01:05:46):
Let's see you go eight miles inand it's this fun kind of up
and down, more down than up,going down to the river Maybe
it's the Quartz River, I don'tknow A couple of river crossings
there, but then eight milesmiles.
It felt like it was almosteight miles continuous of a

(01:06:08):
steep and I mean a steep, yeah,climb, I don't again.
This was another middle of thenight section.
This was the second night.
So this is where hallucinationsand and well, I don't even like
to call them hallucinations,it's just like my brain is just
trying to like make sense ofthings.

Speaker 1 (01:06:29):
Yeah, I got you.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
But when it's trying to make sense of it, it turns
into an elf, a suit of armor, awedding dress.

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
Your daughter, your husband, just weird things out
there, what you're going to eat.

Speaker 2 (01:06:40):
Yeah, and I saw the aid station at least a dozen
times before I actually got tothe real aid station.
Right, because my brain is istrying to make sense of it
anyway, this eight miles ofalmost continuous climbing, I I
would venture to guess thatquartz ridge was probably the
highest drop rate in this race.

Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
Because that climb was killer.

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
Did you find yourself tackling the hills easily or
fluently more in the dark orduring the day when there's
light?

Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
It depends.

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
What did you feel was the best answer for that?
Did you enjoy the hills by notseeing it from A to B, or did
you like to see what was coming?

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
up going across this course because every time you
just want to power up as quicklyas you can and I knew too that
I needed to use my arms, neededto use my poles as much as I
could, and so just poleplacement and being able to take

(01:07:55):
quicker steps up the hills wasbecame very intentional.
So I was just really focused inon, like my body movement.
Normally I'm focused more onthe trail and the steps and
where am I going to get evenjust a couple of flat steps to
stretch my legs a little bitdifferent how my body is moving
through that hill, and it made abig difference whether it was

(01:08:15):
daytime in a thick forest ordaytime in I don't know what it
was.
The sun was just sweltering.
And this was, you know, down inNew Mexico.

(01:08:38):
I'm up at 3,000 to 9,000 feet.
My home is at 3,000 feet.
I train at 6,000 to 9,000 feet.
My home is at 3,000 feet, Itrain at 6,000 to 9,000 feet.
The sun is it's different.
Yes, and you're getting suneverywhere.
You go down there.

Speaker 1 (01:08:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:54):
But here I don't know what it was.
I guess it had to have beenhumidity.
I can't think of any otherreason why the sun would have
felt as intense as it did inthere but humidity and just
something about that forest justtrapping the heat in there was
really a different element.

Speaker 1 (01:09:12):
No, breeze.

Speaker 2 (01:09:15):
But it was overall.
I was still very thankful forthe trees.
I mean, they bring just awarmth, a different element well
, shade different elements shadeshade lots of shade.

Speaker 1 (01:09:28):
Okay, you think your tricidian will be pleased on the
beta.
Just the mindset and it's moremental I hope so, but there's
there's so much to it, I mean wecan spend hours on just
dissecting it.
Do you think we did it justice?
I mean, even though it's been alittle 24 hours since the last
person DFL, and then youfinished two, three days ago.

Speaker 2 (01:09:53):
Well, I think the other thing is, you know, I have
one view of Bigfoot.
I think when you talked withLance Har lance harp, he's
probably mentioned bigfoot,although his bigfoot he did
bigfoot last year and his wasdifferent.
They had a lot of coursechallenges last year, so it was
a very different course lastyear but still it's a.

(01:10:17):
it's still the same forest.
A lot of similar challenges toface, but and he would have a
very different strategy BrandonLott would have a very different
strategy, I mean everybody hasa different strategy for it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:30):
Brandon will tell you that, the way you know he leans
, his strategy on when he leansand when he doesn't lean, and
he'll tell you if he's leaning.
He has to change something up.
And Brandon's a good guy.

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
He's been very quiet lately.
He's been injured, correct,hasn't he?

Speaker 2 (01:10:50):
Yeah, he's working through some different things,
yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
Yeah, I know, injury was stopping him a bit.
But, like the last year notthis last year, but the year
before I saw him with Mr GiddyUp and Giddy Up's son and that
was the last time I seen themactually on top of McBee
training for their 10th 100.

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
For Badger oh for yeah when Matt earned 10.

Speaker 1 (01:11:19):
I think it was 9th or 10th.
I think it was 9th.

Speaker 2 (01:11:21):
Matt has 10.

Speaker 1 (01:11:22):
Yeah, I think I saw him when he was doing ninth Okay
, training for his ninth oneOkay.
That was the last time I'veseen him, but a lot has changed
he's very much in the thick ofthings.

Speaker 2 (01:11:35):
still, he was out there at Badger Mountain
Challenge in this 2025 running.
He was out there at aidstations and whatnot.
Running right, he was out there, uh, at aid stations and
whatnot, I think he was.
He was contemplating, maybeheading over to bigfoot to, to
you know to join the festivitiesthere too.

Speaker 1 (01:11:50):
It just didn't work out, but that's okay if he has,
if you have his name and hisreputation, he can do pretty
much whatever he wants.
He just has to give canvas calllike hey, can I hang out?

Speaker 2 (01:12:01):
and like yeah, sure, yeah you spent enough money, you
can but also anybody who's evercontemplating, contemplated a
200 I don't know you're toyingwith.
Hey, maybe someday possibly goout there and volunteer at at
the 200 and see, see what itwhat they go through.

(01:12:25):
Yeah, oh yeah, and not to likescare anybody away, but you can
better, be better prepared yeah,there's.

Speaker 1 (01:12:33):
There's been complaints and there's also
people been disqualified on uhraces for treating volunteers
poorly there there too oh yeah,yeah.
They gotta no f around to findout policy.

Speaker 2 (01:12:46):
If you treat them like crap, they will kick you
out cocodona as well yeah, youcan't complain with that, I mean
, you can't disagree with that,I mean yeah, these guys are
volunteering, yeah the eventwouldn't happen if if those
angels weren't out there.
I call them aid station angels.
They're not volunteers, they'reaid station angels.

Speaker 1 (01:13:07):
So learned a lot.
Are you going back or are youdone for 200s?

Speaker 2 (01:13:13):
I have other things, so the other thing is back in
the April-May timeframe.
I was really, to be honest, Iwas really struggling with why
am I doing Bigfoot?
July is the big mountainrunning season and if I ran
anything else in July that wouldpretty well sabotage.

Speaker 1 (01:13:36):
So you had to hold back.

Speaker 2 (01:13:38):
Yeah, I hate that.
I hate that, no, but it allworked out.
Because I had the opportunityto go volunteer at Hard Rock
yeah, I hate that.
I hate that, no, but it allworked out.
Because I had the opportunityto go volunteer at Hard Rock,
yeah, and you know, otherwise Imight have just waited until my
name got pulled in the lotterysomeday.
So it was, and that was such animportant experience to have

(01:13:59):
this year.
So I guess, in a way, thank you, bigfoot, for bringing me
closer to hard rock, a betterunderstanding of hard rock.

Speaker 1 (01:14:05):
Okay, how about?

Speaker 2 (01:14:07):
that yeah, no, but I do need to.
I have a list of things I'dlike to try in the hundred mile
space that I want to work moreon that list before I go back to
200,.
I think I want to work more onthat list before I go back to
200, I think, although Candicesays that she's possibly going

(01:14:27):
to have a Colorado 200 in 2027.

Speaker 1 (01:14:31):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:14:31):
Depending on what time of year it is.

Speaker 1 (01:14:34):
That's not the one that Mike and Ben Light are part
of.
Right, They've got their ownthing correct.
I'm not sure I recall they weretrying to get something going,
a huge race like a 250 or 300 incolorado ben light and mike
mcknight I'm not sure if whatcame about that, but it might

(01:14:57):
have you know, yeah, put herlittle fillers in and made it
her own.

Speaker 2 (01:15:04):
Let's see In 2024 was the first running of the Summit
200.
And that's in like theBreckenridge area.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
It might have been.
I think they have that.
I don't know.
But she's putting a 200 inColorado.

Speaker 2 (01:15:21):
She's working on it.
There's some who don't thinkit's going to happen because
they say, oh, there's been toomany race directors trying to
put more races in Colorado andpermits just aren't going
through.
But Candice, I heard her saythat she feels that she really
has a lot of experience in thepermitting space and she's
confident she's going to justcontinue working through it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:43):
Yeah, Okay.
Well, shout out to Candiceagain.
I think she should putsomething together in the New
Hampshire Vermont area.

Speaker 2 (01:15:50):
That you know that's a good point.
I don't know much about thatarea, but it certainly sounds
like it has a lot to offer.

Speaker 1 (01:15:58):
I think that would be the first one I even attempt of
hers.
If she puts something in theNortheast, it's just weird, it's
just different.
The mountains hit differentthere.
And you know, I can have mycake and eat it too If I just go
up, you know, bigfoot or Tahoe,or Cocodona I mean, I've
thought of Cocodona for thelongest time, even signed up for

(01:16:18):
.

Speaker 2 (01:16:20):
And now it's going to be, it's heck, it's really yeah
.
It's a circus trying to get in,and all that now.

Speaker 1 (01:16:29):
So I found out that you know I'll do my races, my
fixed races, now that you knowI'm in remission and everything
else, and didn't want to do toomany.

Speaker 2 (01:16:41):
High fives, high fives, brother, too many races.

Speaker 1 (01:16:47):
So I signed up for one.
I deferred it last year becauseI was in treatment during the
race.
It's across the years, doingacross the years, and that was
the only race I signed up for.
And you know how difficult itis just to sign up for one race.
It's difficult because I usedto go like three a month, you
know, and now it's like one yearand I'm gonna do that and then
I'm gonna stick to two to threea year and just you know, grit

(01:17:11):
things out at a crossfit andjust explore the limits of my
body.
Yeah, that I've been doing foryears, but but it's taken its
toll.
It's taken its toll.
And my ankles I can't,especially my left ankle, I just
can't deal with it right now.
I mean, I can just be walkingup Badger and it'll just.

Speaker 2 (01:17:35):
You know.
I like the idea of continuingto study the secrets.
There's some really amazingolder runners out there.

Speaker 1 (01:17:44):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:45):
Oh yeah, right, I don't want to be that one.

Speaker 1 (01:17:49):
I don't want to be that person.

Speaker 2 (01:17:52):
What do you mean?
You don't want to be on thestarting line at 60?

Speaker 1 (01:17:56):
No, If I am, it will probably be a 10K or a 10-miler.
I love 10-milers or 20, but Idon't think I'll do anything
that big when I hit 50.
You know, I think Denali iswhen I.
I want to hit Denali before Ihit 50.
That's my Everest and that, ifand when I do that, that means

(01:18:18):
I've done everything I can do.
That's awesome, and so when Ido that.
I'll do trail runs to an extentbut just stick to 10 to 20
milers.
But from now till Denali I'vestarted to enjoy fixed races.
Oh the time.

Speaker 2 (01:18:39):
Fixed time.

Speaker 1 (01:18:39):
Fixed times and loops , because you don't have to
carry anything.
And if you need to stop, youcan stop, and you know, not
worry about anything.
I mean, don't stop for a while.
But I like the fact thateverything's there, from
electrolytes to water andeverything else, and you don't
have to, you know, have a bag, a20-pound bag, or you know just

(01:19:01):
something carrying it around.
So I really like the loops andthat's what across the years is.

Speaker 2 (01:19:06):
I did one.
I love the idea of the.
You know some people think ohmonotony of the course, and that
doesn't bother me, but thething that's challenging to me
is a lot of times those areflatter and I did a 34 hour once
yeah, yeah and I ended upsleeping for a total of like

(01:19:28):
three hours.
Yeah, I don't even sleep, yeah,no.
And then, and then they cut.
They cut us off at 33 hours.
They didn't think anybody coulddo another four mile loop and I
was like I could have done itmy last loop was 45 minutes.
I could have done it.
My last loop was 45 minutes.

Speaker 1 (01:19:44):
I could have made it, you cut me off, but anyway,
where's that at?
It was by have you heard of theYeti Runners.
They're based out of.

Speaker 2 (01:19:52):
Virginia.
They have a Yeti 100-milerevent in Washington, but he's
based out of Virginia, he doesraces all over the place and
he's the one who brought oh,okay, he brought the 34-hour to
New Mexico near Redoso.
Okay, all right, great spot fora.
Yeah, oh, yeah, hey, you shouldcheck it out.
If you like Redoso, you shouldcome check it out.
Try it.
So, 34-hour and he Thank you,yadiz, for doing that.

(01:20:19):
He also has ambitions ofbringing a Western States
qualifier to New Mexico.
New Mexico is one of the fewstates that does not have a
Western States qualifier at thetime, at this moment.

Speaker 1 (01:20:30):
Where do you think he'll have the race going
through?

Speaker 2 (01:20:34):
Well, I don't know all the details of it, but he
said that he had talked withWestern States and they said
well, if you just take your34-hour event course and he had
to make a few slightmodifications to it, and he
could use something in thevicinity of that course by near

(01:20:54):
Rodoso to formulate a WesternStates qualifier.
So we'll see if he can makethat happen.

Speaker 1 (01:21:02):
Before I interrupt what we're going to say, if you
can remember, you can recallwhat you were going to say,
something, and I just interrupt.
I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:21:09):
Oh, it's a I don't know, it's okay.

Speaker 1 (01:21:14):
How do you feel?

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
about this episode.
Good, I hope.
I hope we dug into Bigfootenough.
Right, there's lots of aspectsof ultra running.

Speaker 1 (01:21:22):
Yeah, you can't really say everything, because
then the mystery is not thereanymore.
You know, and each person isdifferent.

Speaker 2 (01:21:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:21:32):
So what, your likings won't be somebody else's
likings, you know, mm-hmm, yeah,you know, yeah, yeah it just I
think, if we say the whole thing, I think it will just ruin the
surprise, I think.

Speaker 2 (01:21:48):
I think another another side of it is I had done
a couple of of mountain racesthat brought more perspective to
coming into something likeBigfoot.
So, for example, when I wastrying to lay out like how, how
do you come up with a time?
Like how, nick, how long is itgoing to take you to run 200

(01:22:08):
miles?

Speaker 1 (01:22:08):
or to get through 200 miles.

Speaker 2 (01:22:09):
You're like I have no idea.
Like, do you start looking atother people who've done it, do
you?
No, you should try to try tostick with yourself.
But then you're like, well,well, the closest I have is a
hundred mile difference andyou're going to double it.
Yes, so at least one thing thatI assumed and came out

(01:22:31):
relatively true was I had done IAm Tough, 100.
So Idle Mountain Trail UltraFestival, I Am Tough and that
has an elevation gain of about22,000 feet and so I was looking
and considering.
They're both in the PacificNorthwest generally.
All right, I'm just looking atBigfoot as basically a double.

(01:22:52):
I Am Tough.
Okay, that's how you tackle it.
But it just helped also, notjust for coming up with a time
perspective, but it just helpedalso not just for coming up with
a time perspective, but also tojust feel confident of would I
feel comfortable getting through?
I Am Tough and then turningright like immediately turning,
yeah, yeah yeah, but givingmyself more time to go through I

(01:23:13):
Am Tough and then be able to doit again, gotcha.

Speaker 1 (01:23:17):
Just having something that— but it worked, though,
gotcha Just having somethingthat.

Speaker 2 (01:23:19):
But it worked though.
Yeah, Because if you can't, Idon't.
I can't see like going fromsomething like Badger where
there's no thick forest.

Speaker 1 (01:23:27):
There's no, really rocky Just elements Uphills,
yeah, and weather and deceivingtrails.
Badger is deceiving.

Speaker 2 (01:23:39):
Yeah, oh yeah, so yes , yeah, oh yeah, so yes, yeah,
that's a whole nother.
That's a whole notherdiscussion you coming back.
I really enjoy it, so I'd liketo come back in some capacity.
Also, matt Newton is veryinspiring with his 10 finishes.

Speaker 1 (01:23:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:23:57):
I've done the Badger Mountain Challenge 103 times and
I would like to yeah, I've.
I've done the bedroom mountainchallenge 103 times and I I
would like to.
Yeah, and you know, what reallyinspires me lately is seeing
more and more Tri-Citianssigning up for the a hundred
miler.
And I'm not saying likeeverybody needs to do a hundred
miles, it's not.
It's not for everybody, but forthose who want to try it.

(01:24:18):
I really have a passion.
I really want to try to helpthem.

Speaker 1 (01:24:22):
Oh, okay.
Well, you're great at that.
You're great at upliftingpeople.
We're done.
You think we're done?
Can I share something?
Do you think we've explainedeverything before I go on?

Speaker 2 (01:24:39):
Trying to think, if there's you want to help?

Speaker 1 (01:24:42):
yeah, I want to.
Yeah, all right, at first Ithought, like you know you, when
you first found the podcast andyou wanted to be on, you were
trying to change up the wholeformat and I'm like, oh my
goodness, what is she doing?
Oh my gosh, I've been doingthis for a while you know.
But but that was just in my headduring that time.

(01:25:04):
You know I'm like what?
Okay, all right, whatever.
And then you know you wouldmessage me from you know, on and
on.
But you know, probably threemonths out, you know two months
out, and check in didn't seem torealize what you were doing
until I was out on treatment.

(01:25:25):
You know, and understandingwhat you really meant by you
know, just those reach outs, uh,so, like here, I was thinking
michaela was trying to change myformat.
She wants to be on but shewants to be in control, you know
this is my, my mindset.

Speaker 2 (01:25:40):
I'm just letting you know.
Oh yeah, you didn't know.
We didn't know each other.

Speaker 1 (01:25:43):
Yeah, yeah, I'm just like, what is she trying to do?
And I'll be the first one totell you I I messed up, and you
know ben, you know he was in themidst of it too I'm like who is
this lady?
I don't know.
And then it didn't dawn on mewhat you were actually doing
when this is what the help comesuntil I was in treatment and

(01:26:04):
you were checking in on me.
And then you would critique theepisodes, like you're the only
person as of lately whocritiqued just random episodes.

Speaker 2 (01:26:14):
That sounds like.
That sounds like a harsh word,though is that okay?

Speaker 1 (01:26:18):
okay, no, because no one else you know explains on
how like an episode made youfeel like I.
There's a lot of fake out thereokay, you, I can tell it's not
fake.
And you just going up to ourrandom episode which is like
boom, I'm like why is shelistening?

(01:26:38):
Wow, that's back.
Then okay, wow, yeah, there's alot of things that I could have
done differently.
But here you are in the chaoticworld of treatment and losing
my dad and losing myfather-in-law and whatnot, and
you're checking in, you continueto check in and you critiquing,

(01:26:58):
in a good way, of the podcastand everything else really meant
a lot in the world when I tellyou what you.
And then there's two otherpeople that went besides my wife
, that went in the treatment.
It was Joe Garcia.
Shout out to Joe, jose Garcia,he's been on the podcast and

(01:27:18):
Coach Litkey, outside of that.
When it comes to the runningcommunity, the running community
is not around.
I'm just going to tell you thatI am but you really disheartened
to hear that you on the otherhand, like brought me to the
point that it was just like okay, the community's still there,

(01:27:39):
but it meant a lot because I Igot a lot of not good feedback
on the podcast just because I'mgoing to the athletes western
lifestyle hardly any runners,hardly any runners, because it's
it's tough to get the runnerson.
It's really tough to get therunners on.
If I get them on, I get them on.

(01:27:59):
You know, steph, amazing, Iwould have all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:28:03):
I listened to that episode at least two times,
three times I think I would.

Speaker 1 (01:28:08):
I would have her on, but majority of the runners
majority of the runners not notaround here because I'll get any
runner in here egos get to themand the more you interview them
, the more you digest whatthey're saying, the more you end
up finding out it's not my kindof life you know I don't want

(01:28:33):
to get into it it wasn't fun.
It wasn't fun and so, like what,I was trying to find out what
was fun.
I love the rodeo world.
I love the athletes perspective.
Come to find out rodeo worlds,enjoying the running world.
Some of the runners, some ofthe runners love the rodeo.
They're just now sorry, I'mtalking to my hands.

(01:28:55):
They're just now understandinglike we're all alike.
The only thing different is thatthey got an animal between them
and the ground.
But it's, you know, it's.
They all have the same why.
But here I was thinking you're,you know, reaching out, you had
some other plan and come tofind out, you're just a friend

(01:29:18):
in the running community that Ididn't know existed until you
reached out at that certain timewhen.
I didn't have anybody checkingin.

Speaker 2 (01:29:27):
I really love this running community.

Speaker 1 (01:29:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:29:29):
And I was just like.
I just want to talk about it ina way that celebrates it and
lifts it up.

Speaker 1 (01:29:35):
So, no, I appreciate you and you are helping, you
helped me.
But no, I appreciate you andyou are helping, you helped me,
and that's why I thought, likeme, ending this on the way I did
is just the honest truth onwhat you bring to the community
as a whole, so not trying to getteary eyed, but like I was not

(01:29:56):
a believer.
At first I wasn't a believer.
At first I wasn't a believer.
But then, when you werechecking in on me, I was in my
own little world with my familytrying to get treatment.
You had to, but you changed itin your friendship.
You're checking in on thesmallest times and I'll say

(01:30:16):
critique.
It's not a bad thing, it's justyou just dissecting.
I'm good, cool, I'm going tocontinue.
Say critique.

Speaker 2 (01:30:21):
It's not a bad thing.
It's just you just dissecting,I'm good, yeah, cool.
I'm going to continue tocritique it's more uplifting
than than as of recently.

Speaker 1 (01:30:28):
So appreciate you and thank you, Michaela, Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:30:33):
Nick, I think I told you from the beginning I was
going through.
You know I was going throughthe c word on in my own family
too.

Speaker 1 (01:30:48):
So I got you, but I, I, I don't think I can talk
about that yeah, no, and, andyou, you don't have to, but I, I
wanted you to know, like, atfirst it was just like no, I was
like who, who, yeah, and that'swhen I was getting all those
runners that it was a bun to putthem on.

Speaker 2 (01:31:06):
It's nothing around here, it was just the big teams,
you know, you know but you gotto admit, though, too, with
running, and especially ifyou're going into a race, that
naturally the human spirit hascompetitiveness that wants to
come out.
But that's where I like lookingat ultra running as a team
sport.
You're like what, how is that ateam sport?

(01:31:26):
I'm not talking about crew andpacers, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got
you.
I'm talking about every singleperson who's out there is
battling to get to the finishline.
Oh, yeah.
And anyway, and it's the samething and I like how it's a mini
representation of life.

Speaker 1 (01:31:43):
I got you Yep, so I just wanted you to know.
Since you helped me, I know youcan be out there and helping
others and you have the rightmindset and the right goal to be
out there to help others.
And you helped me, so I knowyou can help others.
And that's the end of resultson that talk.

(01:32:04):
Thank you thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:32:06):
I feel like I just got some critique.
It was, it was good, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:32:10):
Thank you for that yeah, it's just no one.
No one else does it, no oneelse does it.
Sometimes, you know, I'll getmessages from the the slightest.
Oh what are you?
A rodeo guy now like what doyou?

Speaker 2 (01:32:21):
remember?
Do you remember where, wherethe the slightest oh what are
you?
A rodeo guy, now, like what doyou remember?
Do you remember where, wherethat started?
Because it was quiet for a longtime and I feel like you've
been a voice.
I'm especially not live becauseI don't live here right now.
Visit as much as I can, butbecause I don't live here right
now, you're the a voice.
On behalf of the, the trailrunning community here yeah and
that's where I was.

(01:32:41):
I was like, oh no, the voicewent quiet for a while and that
that was one of the reasons I Ihad reached out to was was I
really appreciate what you bring?
Thank you for this trail trailcommunity too appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:32:54):
Yeah, it still blows my mind that people still listen
.
And yeah, I mean I don't haveto put out stuff for for like
months and I still have big morehits than you know I do
spitting them out you know and Iknow this one's gonna be
successful because you're inmany well, you're in this huge
community and then you'reelsewhere too, so it's a big hit

(01:33:17):
.
Yeah, it was, it was.
It was quiet because of thedeaths and just trying to figure
things out.
Yeah, be healthy myself and I'mout and about, I'm getting there
just picking and choosing whereI step foot, you know, and it's
crazy to hear people like Ilisten to this.

(01:33:39):
I'm like really, oh okay, youknow.
And then there's some peoplelike in the rodeo world I'll
tell you this or just being outand about, I know that voice
from somewhere.
I didn't know who you are, butI know that voice.
I'm like dang it.
Yes, I'm the guy.
So that's pretty funny because,you know, people don't see me
that much, even though I, likeyou know, try to take pictures

(01:33:59):
with everybody.
They're like I.
I've heard that voice before,are you?
Yes, I am.

Speaker 2 (01:34:05):
It's pretty funny, it's funny so, to be the,
usually what happens is I'm I'mlistening to a miles mountains
podcast yeah and then, and thenit'll start rolling into the
next you.
You know I target one right.

Speaker 1 (01:34:19):
Like.

Speaker 2 (01:34:20):
Oh, there's that interview.
It's he got Stephanie Inslee onCool.
I want to.
Yeah, I want to learn moreabout Stephanie, oh yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:34:29):
It's tough, but where were you?
Yep, what were you saying?

Speaker 2 (01:34:42):
But then it rolls into the next one and it happens
to be moving into a rodeo topicand and I'm like I have no idea
what they're talking about, Idon't know, like same thing,
yeah, but I mean it was likethere's like a front person and
a back person, a healer, yeah,yeah I have no idea what they're
talking about, but they're,they're really into it, and so I
don't.
I don't pick up as much of thepieces from it, but I tell you
what.
There was, one that you didrecently.

Speaker 1 (01:35:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:35:03):
Blew my mind.
What was this?
I'm trying to figure it out theOutlaw.

Speaker 1 (01:35:08):
Oh yeah, Yep Outlaw Echoes.

Speaker 2 (01:35:10):
Yes, outlaw Echoes.
Thank you, and it was justeye-opening.
I grew up in the countryside,really small town, but the way
he described a western lifestylewas something completely new to
me yeah right, wisconsincountryside is totally different

(01:35:35):
.
I mean I I mean, yeah, redneck,whatever you want to call it,
yeah, that's.
You know.
I was familiar with all that,but the Western lifestyle and
the way he described it wasdifferent.

Speaker 1 (01:35:47):
A lot of people will get it mixed up, and that's why
I like the fact that you know Iget some of the runners like,
hey, I'm going to a rodeo,you're going to be on there.
You know you're going to behere, let's meet up.
You know I'm going to my firstrodeo, thanks to you, you know,
just random people.
Yeah, it's cool and, liketomorrow, I'm going on a four
day run with a 22 year old kidout of Sela, wiley Coyote.

(01:36:10):
You've probably seen some of myposts.
I went on the run with him inCle Elum and I'm going to go
four different rodeos in thenext four days.
But uh, nice that's what I meanto run and it's.
It's pretty interesting.
All walks of life goes in thereand it just enjoys the moments

(01:36:31):
and you know carefree andenjoying.
You know the rodeo clown or thethe entertainer, depending on
who you talk to, and andparalleling back to trail
running and everybody liftingeach other up and supporting
each other.

Speaker 2 (01:36:45):
Everybody wants them to be successful.

Speaker 1 (01:36:48):
It's all alike, and those closed minded people that
are like, oh, why don't you dorunners anymore?
I'm like I do it, just it'stough, it's really tough, it's
tough to get a lot of therunners back on and whatnot, but
it's, they're still there, likeyou want to come on.
I'm like, heck, yeah, let's go,let's go, let's do it.
You know, and I thank you forthat.

Speaker 2 (01:37:09):
Yeah Well, thank you for the opportunity.
But also, I didn't particularlycare to talk about all of it,
but any.
But it was that, that localrunner who said, gee, I, I wish
I knew more about what.
Oh yeah, you know what can help.

(01:37:31):
What went into what went into asuccessful bigfoot?

Speaker 1 (01:37:34):
if I can help anybody out, that's I mean, that's that
voice, right?
I try to help people out asmuch as I can and you, you know,
try to get people to understand, like you know, people who are
curious on what's your why, whatbrought you to destroy your
body for 50 miles, let alone 200miles.

Speaker 2 (01:37:52):
You know what I?

Speaker 1 (01:37:53):
mean, it's just, it's always that feeling.
I know my why continued not to.
I say little here and there,but I wanted to tell the story.
But I just can't find the righttime.
But I know my why and a lot ofthe people that I've asked their
why aligns with mine a lot abit.

(01:38:15):
So that's what I try to do Justtell their story through their
lens and just be the mediatorand have fun while I do it.
So thank you, michaela.
Thank you, you're welcome.
You're thinking what's going on.
Yeah, what are you thinkingabout?

Speaker 2 (01:38:35):
Just earlier you asked me why and I told you why
I had registered Earlier.
You asked me why and I told youwhy I had registered.
But I guess I never did touchon like again when I, the last

(01:38:59):
couple weeks leading intostepping my Strava, I I won't go
into all the background, butjust I, long time ago I I
committed that my running is agift and I just want to give
thanks every single run for thegift, gotcha.
And then so my why leading intothis one was I don't know.

(01:39:21):
This probably won't make senseto a lot of people and some
people might not even want tohear this, but there's someone
who is just the most amazingdoctor ever and people were just
flocking to him to get his helpand I can only imagine how
overwhelming it probably was attimes.

(01:39:42):
And it said he would often likekind of pull away into the
wilderness for prayer.

Speaker 1 (01:39:50):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:39:51):
And that was Jesus and that's.
And so I read that and that wasmy why going into Bigfoot Okay
Right.
And that was my why going intoBigfoot Okay Right.
There's a lot that can beoverwhelming in life and taking
that opportunity to step intothe wilderness for a quiet

(01:40:12):
moment in your life is.

Speaker 1 (01:40:14):
That's your why.
Anyway, that was my.
No one can take that away.

Speaker 2 (01:40:17):
Yeah, because.

Speaker 1 (01:40:18):
Who cares what people think right?

Speaker 2 (01:40:20):
And you think, well, gee, isn't like, can't you just
go to the I don't know, go to apark for an hour?

Speaker 1 (01:40:26):
That's not the same.
No, it's not the same.
No, it's not the same.
No, it's not the same, no.
So that's your why.

Speaker 2 (01:40:33):
That was my why for Bigfoot.
Yeah, Every race it's different.

Speaker 1 (01:40:38):
Yeah, okay, next race .

Speaker 2 (01:40:41):
I Am Tough.

Speaker 1 (01:40:42):
I Am Tough.
When is it the half Bigfoot?

Speaker 2 (01:40:45):
right, yeah right, I'm kidding.
I'm kidding, it's not a halfBigfoot, it's a 36-hour cutoff,
I think.
So it's right.
I mean, bigfoot, you have 107hours to cut off, so Big, I Am
Tough.
You have 36 hours, you got it,so you got to run, you got it.
Yeah, yeah, it'll be my third,I am tough.
Okay, and it's the end ofSeptember, okay, and I'm super

(01:41:09):
excited because local runnersare going to be joining this
year and we're going to havesome others.
We're going to come out and youknow crew or pace and all that.
And if it intrigues anyone, Igenuinely open up.
If you're curious about thosekinds of events, they can try to

(01:41:31):
see, if they can reach out tome and I welcome them to see
what the experience is like.

Speaker 1 (01:41:37):
You're on Facebook, but not on Instagram, correct,
right, okay, so where can peoplefind you on facebook?

Speaker 2 (01:41:43):
the people that don't know you.
To be honest, I'm just, I'm notthe only reason I have on
facebook is because that's how Iconnect with my immediate
family, my, my siblings myparents yeah, yeah, and, and
it's right, and it does turninto a means to connect, to find
, like to find people who I've.
I see them at races orsomething and then I want to

(01:42:05):
find them.
I want to find Nick, andFacebook seems to be a place
where I can do that, and Iappreciate the correspondence
and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (01:42:16):
Sure, whoever you help, in the grand scheme of
things and the you know outsideof the running world, inside in
and outside of the running world, that they would appreciate
every lick of it so as much as Ihave.
So, kayla, until next time,yeah sure promise yeah is it

(01:42:37):
everything you thought it was,or worse or more, or?

Speaker 2 (01:42:40):
I don't know, I'm not going to listen to it.

Speaker 1 (01:42:41):
It is what it is.
You're not going to listen toit?
No, because you're going to gocheeky and you're going to be
like we should have done this,we should have done that.
Yeah, yep, yep, Yep Hold thisI'll see if my husband wants to

(01:43:01):
listen to it and he can sharehis thoughts.
That's right, he's the betterhalf.
Is it difficult or easier?
It's conversation-based.
A lot of people they're like,oh, they're stressing, they
stress, they have high anxiety.
But then when they starttalking they're like, oh, it's a
lot easier than I thought.

Speaker 2 (01:43:16):
It depends, you know, because we had first talked
about doing a podcast backaround the time I was moving to
New Mexico.

Speaker 1 (01:43:26):
And that's when I was like who's?

Speaker 2 (01:43:27):
this lady.
Yeah, I was like I don't wantto do.
I don't want to do anythingover the phone.
I'm an in-person type.

Speaker 1 (01:43:37):
Let's do this.
Anytime you're in the tribe,stop by.
We can go two hours, like wehave today or no way.

Speaker 2 (01:43:48):
Sorry, no, can you believe it's been?

Speaker 1 (01:43:49):
that we've been rolling for a while.
Okay, you don't know, don'tapologize no.

Speaker 2 (01:43:55):
So here's the that 25 miles I spent with Ben.
We talked about trail runningalmost nonstop in that time.
I just love talking about itand I love talking about the
trail.
So no, it's totally natural andcomfortable If it's something
that you love.

Speaker 1 (01:44:11):
Yeah, a lot of people stress, they're like I don't
know if I can do an hour, andthen they come to find out they
do it over an hour and they'relike wow it didn't even seem
that long.
Yes, it's long, but no, youdon't have to apologize.
It's great, it's great.
So till next time.
Yes, anytime you, steph, shoutout to all the people you
shouted out goggins to ashley towell, just my dashana joe,

(01:44:34):
she's crazy.
You need to get in touch withher I yeah, dash Tashauna Joe.

Speaker 2 (01:44:39):
She's not local though.

Speaker 1 (01:44:41):
She's not no Colorado .

Speaker 2 (01:44:42):
I mean not that that matters.

Speaker 1 (01:44:43):
Colorado.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I like tospend time in Colorado.
She gets around, she travels.
I don't know how she does it,but she is.

Speaker 2 (01:44:51):
Okay, I will.

Speaker 1 (01:45:03):
Yeah, you got to get base.
Please feel free and thank youfor reaching out when things
were questionable, so appreciateyou.
Thank you, we'll see you nexttime.

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