September 2, 2024 • 23 mins
What happens when the relentless pursuit of perfectionism clashes with the serenity of faith? Join me, Lemon Price, on the Milk and Honey podcast as I engage in a heartfelt conversation with my dear friend Vivian. Vivian opens up about her extraordinary journey toward balancing the demands of life while renewing her commitment to God. From the mental exhaustion she faced to the pivotal moment she rededicated her life to God, Vivian shares how she found purpose beyond mere career ambitions. We discuss how her experience of perfectionism and control during personal and family health crises led her to a deeper trust in God's plan and taught her the value of intentional living amidst life's chaos.
Can the quest for parental approval and societal acceptance shape our faith journey in unexpected ways? In our candid dialogue, Vivian and I uncover how growing up in a perfectionist household influenced her self-perception and habits into adulthood. We explore the pressure of seeking parental approval, the struggles with body image, and the societal judgments that compounded her anxiety. Through sharing personal stories, we highlight how these challenges intersect with our relationship with God, often revealing deeper truths about our faith and identity that we hadn't initially recognized.
How do you surrender your dreams to a higher power without losing sight of them? In the final chapters, we delve into the emotional journey of letting go of perfectionism and surrendering control to God's timing. I share my own experience of facing this at a writer's conference, where I had to come to terms with trusting God's plan over my personal ambitions. Alongside Vivian's testimony, we discuss the spiritual growth that comes from relinquishing control and embracing a purpose-driven life. We wrap up by emphasizing the importance of leadership, community feedback, and the ongoing journey of discovering our heavenly calling.
Connect with Vivian
Vivian is an extraordinary woman—a wife, mother, grandmother, federal government employee of 25 years, and soon-to-be retiree. She’s also a writer, blogger, and podcast host of “Juggling Life, Finding Balance." Inspired by her testimony and life experiences, Vivian speaks to women about living a balanced lifestyle and has two book projects in the pipeline.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Hey, I'm Lemon.
I am just like you, sisterfriend.
Talk about stepping into thatoverflow that God has for us by
becoming those ultimate Proverbs31 women.
Hey, I'm Lemon.
I am just like you, sisterfriend.
I knew God had something morein store for me, but I couldn't
see a way out of the laundrypiles and, frankly, I resented
that.
Proverbs 31 woman.
How was I going to live up tothe hype?
(00:38):
That is until I found out howto really step into becoming
this Proverbs 31 woman throughleadership development.
In this podcast you're going tofind financial freedom,
leadership, growth andmotivation so you'll be able to
do all the things God has calledyou to do with ease and really
step into that land of milk andhoney.
Welcome back to the Milk andHoney podcast.
(01:00):
I'm your host, lemon Price, andI am so excited because I have
my friend, vivian on Vivian andI have been trying to make this
happen for months.
I actually was thinking aboutthis the other day it was
September when you wereoriginally, but isn't that wild.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
It is wild, life happened and we weren't able to
connect, but I think that'sperfect though, because this is
the time.
This is where we're supposed toget together.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yes, I am literally so excited that we were chatting
and just talking.
I'm like, oh my gosh, like yourhusband's a veteran just like
mine and we just have so much incommon.
She was just in my neck of thewoods in Savannah, which is
really fun.
So this divine timing.
I'll just say that that's right.
I agree, divine timing, and soI'm excited that you're here.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Do you want to tell us a little bit more about
yourself and things?
My friend, yeah.
So I am married to one of mybest friends ever best man in my
first wedding actually andwe've been together for 21 years
now, so that's amazing.
I have two bonus adult childrenwho also have children of their
own, so I'm a glammy to fivegrandkiddos.
I've been with the federalgovernment now for 25 years,
(02:10):
looking forward to thatretirement.
I'm a writer.
I have a blog.
I will be launching my ownpodcast on May 1st and it's
called Juggling Life, findingBalance.
And yeah, I've just beenspeaking to women about my
testimony and what God has shownme about living a balanced
lifestyle, and I'm tootlingaround with two books, so I got
(02:33):
a lot of things going on.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I love this.
Okay, I'm working on my firstbook right now and it is such a
process to work on, so hats offto you for having like multiple,
like good on you.
It's tough, yeah, it is tough,and I'm excited because your
podcast is about juggling lifeand finding balance, because I'm
excited to hear yourperspective on this.
That's what we want to talkabout today.
It's how do you do it when youhave all these things going on?
(02:58):
When you're a writer, a speaker, you know you're a stepmom,
you're a grandma, like you'remarried, you're traveling how
the heck do you do it?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Very intentionally.
I think that's probably a wordthat I've used so much over the
last few years.
I'll just back up a little bit.
So, really, where this allstarted for me was it's going on
four years now, but I had anabsolute mental breakdown.
Absolute breakdown because ofwhat you just mentioned.
I was doing all the things Iwasn't doing my first book, I
(03:29):
wasn't doing the podcasting orany of that stuff yet, but
working myself just almost tothe point of mental exhaustion.
Actually, I think I wasmentally exhausted, but I also
was feeling like there had to bemore to life than this than
working, than striving to beperfect.
I am a recovering perfectionistand control freak.
I say recovering because it'san everyday thing that I have to
(03:51):
again be intentional about andlean on God for help there.
But I just reached a pointwhere I was like there has to be
more to my life than this.
I was 48 and just reached outto God in the middle of my
living room floor and just saidI'm tired of my life.
There has to be more to it thanthis.
What is my purpose?
Do I even have a purpose?
Because I know that you diedfor me and there has to be more
(04:16):
than this.
So I pretty much rededicated mylife.
I've been a Christian since Iwas little and so I just got
lost, lost in selfish ambition,lost in just trying to continue
to climb the ladder of successwith my career.
And I reached out to God andsaid I'm all in.
Whatever you have to do tochange my spirit, to show me my
(04:37):
purpose, to give me that callingthat's been waiting for me,
I'll do whatever.
And so that's when I entered awilderness season, pretty much
immediately following thatrededication, and God really had
to show.
And I knew what was happeningbecause, like I said, I've grown
up in church, I've been aChristian for a very long time
and I know when you ask forthese types of things, you need
(04:59):
to prepare, because you're beingprepared in that wilderness
season.
And so God was what was revealedto me during that time frame,
and I won't necessarily go intoall those details, but I just
didn't trust God at all.
I always wanted to be incontrol of everything, and so I
never gave God that control, andthat was one of the first
(05:20):
things that he revealed to me,and I had to be put in positions
to where I had no control.
My parents were very sick atone point.
I couldn't control that, I gotcancer.
I couldn't control that and Ihad to learn to trust and rely
on God.
And he revealed to me duringthat time frame, in such a
loving way, that I did have aspirit of pride.
(05:41):
I did have a spirit ofperfectionism and control and
lack of trust and faith, and soduring this time it took a
little while, but I think that Ifinally was able to build up
some of that character.
And so during that time framealso too, again, god was just so
kind to me and showing me that,yes, you have these spirits in
(06:02):
you, but let me show you why.
And he revealed some childhoodmemories that would explain why
I have this desire to be perfect, why I have to be in control.
And so he revealed some thingsto me.
And there's a story that Ialways like to tell, because
anytime that I feel myselfgetting into some kind of an
extreme, wanting to be perfector in control, I think back to
(06:24):
this story.
But I was five years old and Iwas in kindergarten and I was
getting ready for a nap If youremember nap time when you're
little and I remember that I wastaking my little blanket and I
was fanning it out to lay down.
And all the other kids werelaid down, but I kept fanning my
blanket because when it wouldlie down it would ripple.
(06:45):
And I remember having just suchanxiety over that blanket not
lying perfectly and so I keptdoing it over.
And finally, my teachers, ifyou do that one more time, I'm
going to give you a spanking.
You need to lay down.
And I remember being so mad ather for making me accept
mediocrity.
This wasn't perfect and she wasforcing me to accept that.
(07:07):
As I look back, god wasrevealing to me, even as a
five-year-old how dofive-year-olds even how to be
perfect or how to be in control?
There was reasons for that, andGod started revealing those to
me so that I wouldn't be so hardon myself, as he was working on
my character.
And so when I start feelinglike I'm getting into that
extreme or whatever, I alwaysthink back to that little blonde
(07:28):
hair, ponytail girl, just sweetand innocent girl, and give her
, just reach out and give herthat love and let her know you
don't have to be perfect, wehave somebody that is perfect,
that we can lean on.
And so God revealed that to me.
And then the other thing wasthe whole balance thing, and it
really showed how out of balancemy life was.
And he basically just pointedout to me if you do these three
(07:50):
things, your life will be a lifeof balance.
And it's putting me first, takecare of yourself so you can do
the work that I have preparedfor you, and to have fun.
And those were my three pillarsthat he gave me, and that's
what I talk about now.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
That was a lot.
That was.
I love that.
I love this story because I'mlike, oh, I'm like these things
are so tense, so I want to liketouch on.
I want to touch on thewilderness season for sure,
cause I think we've all beenthere and it is a little like
scary to be in a wildernessseason.
But then also I would love toknow, like, where do you think
five-year-old Vivian had thisperfectionism and like where did
(08:28):
that come from?
And where do you think, wheredo you think that comes from for
us?
Because I am also a strugglingperfectionist and so I would
love to.
I'm like, for my own benefit, Iwould love to know your
thoughts on that means I'm not apsychologist or anything like
(08:56):
that, this is just my experience.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
But there's some people that it's a learned
behavior and for me I believe itwas a learned behavior, even at
five, because the memories thatI have is and I tease my dad
now because he's 80, 81 now andI'm like dad, I'm the way I am
because of you, because my dadis a perfectionist.
He has always had to haveeverything perfect and there's
reasons why he is the way he is.
And as I'm learning history ofmy family, I'm like okay, that
(09:20):
makes sense, You're doing whatyou were raised to do, so it was
just generational.
I remember things like I alwayshad to have my bed made before
I would go to school and I waslate sometimes because my bed
wasn't made.
I remember watching my dad whenhe would build things, how
frustrated he would get when hecouldn't get things just perfect
.
And he was amazing witheverything he did carpentry,
(09:42):
mechanics, whatever.
My dad can do anything but hehad to have it so meticulous all
the time and when he would getmad.
I remember him getting mad,throwing hammers, punching walls
and stuff out of frustrationbecause he couldn't get it
perfect, and I observed that andthen there was just little
things like.
There was a time in my lifewhere I was maturing as a young
(10:05):
woman.
I blossomed before a lot of theother girls did in my class and
so I was top heavy and I wantedto hide it.
When you're sixth grade andseventh grade and you're the
only one with a body like this,it's embarrassing and so I'd
want to hide it.
And so I would wear baggyclothes.
I'd wear really big baggyshirts and if I had a dress on
there for a while I don't knowif you remember shoulder pad,
(10:27):
Remember those shoulder pads andthen, like the dress, the waist
would be this drop waist andthen the dress would come out.
Anyway, I had these dresses andthey would have belts that
would go with them, but I wouldnever wear the belt, because if
I cinched up the belt then Iwould look a little
disproportioned.
And so I just remember my dadwould be like you look like a
slob, you need to go put thatbelt on.
(10:48):
And I look back and I'm likegosh, dad, I have all things to
say to a pre-adolescent girl,but he didn't mean any harm by
it, but that was hisperfectionist coming out right,
she's not that tidy, she'sfrumpy and stuff like that and
wanted me to look nice and stuff.
And so I look back at thosethings and I tease them.
(11:09):
Now because I'm at that pointwhere it's okay.
But I do think that has a lot todo with it.
And when you're little likethat and things that I've been
reading, it's like children wantto want that approval from
their parents and if they'reseeing that, what makes their
parent happy is when you dothings perfectly and don't mess
up and don't spill your Kool-Aidand don't make a mess at the
(11:31):
dinner table and you keep yourroom clean and your toys picked
up.
That makes people happy.
And so you just keep doingthose things to make people
happy so that you're gettingthat approval and stuff.
And so that's just.
It just kept building andbuilding into each season of my
life.
I remember in junior high whenmy hair wouldn't curl perfectly,
(11:51):
I'd have an all-out breakdown.
My mom would end up calling mein sick to work because I'd get
myself so worked up and I wastrying to get my hair perfect
because if you go to school andyour hair was messed up,
whatever, you get teased.
So it just kept going throughevery season of my life.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Okay, I love what you said because, first of all, I
think you and I it's veryinteresting when we think about
this.
So I also was well endowed inmy youth and still am.
And it's very interesting thatI think I took the instead of
wearing really baggy clothes,because I was a cheerleader and
a dancer.
Instead, I was the one who woretwo regular bras, two sports
bras, and like a cami on top tosuck it in and try to minimize
(12:32):
it out.
And it's very interestingbecause even I remember six
months ago, a year ago maybe, myhusband and I we were in
Savannah and I had a dress onand I had I don't know, like a
bandeau on, because again, I'mstill like uncomfortable with it
, and somebody actually sent mea very nasty email about how I
cannot be a believer if you cansee, even like the top of the
(12:55):
cleavage line, oh boy.
And how like inappropriate itwas for me and all these things
and like all of the shame andstuff.
Like I was like whoa, I waslike am I like?
Am I a problem?
Anyway, I appreciate yousharing that because I think
women needed to hear that,because I know that was
something like I.
They're almost 34.
It is something that I stillhave to deal with sometimes, but
(13:17):
I want to ask you thisperfectionism that you dealt
with, how did that then impactyour relationship with the Lord?
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yeah, it impacted.
Let me just say this I didn'tknow that it was impacting my
relationship with the Lord.
I didn't know that it wasimpacting my relationship with
the Lord, but that certainlyexplains why my life has been so
unfulfilled.
Up until that moment, I was onthe living room floor
rededicating my life, becauseI'd been spending my entire life
needing everything to beperfect, and that's exhausting.
(13:48):
I went to church, I read myBible, but I just didn't include
God in any decision I ever made.
I did everything on my own andnever looked to Him for anything
.
And having everything have to beperfect, like from work-related
stuff.
I never prayed over my workbefore.
I never prayed over my staff.
I never did any of those things, and so I feel like I was doing
(14:12):
all of this work, takingcontrol of everything.
God's just been sitting on thesidelines waiting for me to give
it up to him and reach out tohim and ask him for help,
instead of me trying to doeverything and to do it
perfectly.
And so I think, like I said,it's just a very unfulfilling
life, and I'm more aware of itnow, and I was just never aware
(14:33):
of it before until he revealedthat to me.
And so now that I'm aware of itnow and I was just never aware
of it before until he revealedthat to me and so now that I'm
aware of it, I can see when Istart getting into those
perfectionist tendencies.
And then I know I need to backoff.
And OK, why do I feel like Ihave to be perfect right now?
What am I trying to control andwhat do I need to ask God, or
give it up to God, or ask Godfor his help?
Speaker 1 (14:53):
I love that answer.
So how does it feel?
It's like a recoveringperfectionist, because you just
said like we still haveperfectionist tendencies, like
the control tendencies stillcome out, like they're going to
happen.
So then, how does it feel?
Because I think that's hard,especially when you're type A
and you have these like how isit now emotionally, spiritually,
et cetera, for you to be inthis place of surrender and like
(15:17):
, how does that feel?
Did you struggle with thesurrender and was that a
practice that you had to do?
I would love to know about that.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
I'm still surrendering every single day
and it's hard.
I am so not gonna lie.
It is hard, and so I justsurrendered something last month
I guess it was end of March.
Like I said, I have these twobooks that I've been dabbling in
and went to a writer'sconference last month.
And I really felt okay, god, Ithink it's time, I think this is
(15:47):
it.
I'm going to start pitchingthis, I'm going to start really
getting into it and we're goingto see this happen, because I do
feel like God has given me thatpromise you will publish a book
.
It's deep in my spirit and so Iknow it's there, and so I was
like trying to push the timelineup and thinking that this was
going to happen at this writer'sconference.
And when I got there Lamin, I'mgoing to tell you what I cried
(16:11):
every single night in my cabin.
I had another breakdown on thefloor.
Me and floors.
We got something.
Oh.
And so I'm just like I just Idon't.
For whatever reason, I didn'twant to be there.
I wasn't interested in meetinganybody, networking with anybody
.
I met with one agent and he gaveme some feedback and I took it
(16:32):
so personally that it justdestroyed me and I'm like why
are you acting like this?
And I went on a walk to try toclear my head and I'm sitting on
this bench and I felt like thisbreeze, and I felt like in the
midst of that breeze it was stop, stop striving for something
that I don't have for you.
Right now.
This is not the season.
(16:52):
And so the other thing thatcame over me was you have got to
surrender this book idea to me.
It is not your book.
Neither one of them are yourbooks.
They're my books, and when I'mready for you to launch them, I
will tell you.
And until then, I've alreadyoutlined these things.
You need to keep doing thethings that I've already told
(17:13):
you to do.
And what would you seriously doright now if an agent said yes,
let me sign you.
I need to get the first sixchapters by I don't know June?
I would have freaked out.
There's no way.
I work full time, and so it justwas like you have got to
surrender this to me.
It's not yours, it's mine, it'salways been mine.
Oh my gosh, I'm sitting thereon that bench and I'm just
(17:36):
bawling because I'm like, I getit, I get it, but it's just.
I felt like I was surrenderingmy dream and I was grieving.
God is not telling me no, it'snot going to happen, he's just
saying not yet.
But I had to grieve that.
It was like a two and a halfhour drive home from that
conference and on that drivehome, me and God just talked it
out and I'm okay now.
But I have to be cautiousbecause I will likely fall back
(17:58):
into that again.
When I'm ready to launch thisbook again and he tells me not
yet, I'm going to have tosurrender it probably.
Yeah, it's.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
I love that you said you grieved right Because God
didn't tell you no.
And even if he did tell you no,we talk about we haven't had
any biological children.
Even if God did say no, or it'snot going to look the way you
think it is, it's not on thetimeline you think it is.
I think it's okay to grieve alittle bit and be like okay, I
trust you, lord, like I trustthe timeline, I trust the
(18:28):
process, I trust the timeline, Itrust the process, I trust you
in this.
But also it's okay to say thiskind of sucks I wanted to do it
now and it doesn't feel good.
And not that God promises usthat it's ever going to feel
good, or just that His purposeis greater than ours.
Trusting in that, oh, I lovethat.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I just feel I've been through it the last three years
.
You know wilderness season.
I've been through it the lastthree years.
You know wilderness season.
I went through a spiritualwarfare season which I had never
experienced that before andthat really was craziness.
And so now I'm just in thissurrender mode and that is so
incredibly new to me.
I'm almost 52 years old andit's embarrassing to say that
(19:07):
I'm like I've never surrenderedto Christ.
But I feel like I've just heldon for so long and so I'm having
to loosen that grip and let go,and my flesh hates it.
So I find myself having to justtalk myself through it a lot
and say, ok, it's going to be OK.
And here's the other thing tooI have to be OK with.
(19:27):
If, say, for instance, I writethis and it never gets published
in my lifetime.
I have to be okay with I mightnot see it on this side of
heaven.
And so I've had to really getto that point where it's I'm
okay with whatever, because it'snot mine, it's just not mine.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
I love this conversation so much.
If you had to leave ourlisteners with a piece of advice
about surrendering orperfectionism or anything like
that, what would you say to them?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Oh, first thing I would say is you know what, even
if you're not ready, even ifyou're like, oh, I don't want to
, I don't want to ask God forthat, I don't want to give this
up.
I don't want to ask God to helpchange me, ask Him change at a
little bit of time.
Give me the desire to wantchange.
I think that's so importantbecause, like I said, I went my
whole life up until about fouryears ago not realizing that's
(20:23):
what I needed.
And so, if you're findingyourself striving, if you're
finding yourself feelingunfulfilled and stressed and
overwhelmed, ask God to show youwhat's the underlying reason
for that.
And God, like I said, god is sokind, he's not just going to
whack you over the head and belike.
He'll show you.
In scripture, somebody might.
You might see it on a podcast,you might hear it today.
(20:44):
God will start planting thoseseeds to get your spirit ready
for the preparation and stuffthat he needs to do in you.
I would just say reach out toGod and say show me where I need
to come up higher, and thenjust be open and listening to
his voice for each little pebblethat he drops.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
I love that so much.
I love the conviction that youhave about this topic now,
having gone through it, and Ifeel like if you can do it, then
anybody can do it, as somebodywho was a perfectionist and
works on that.
So I just want to thank you forbeing here.
Where can everybody go toconnect with you and just talk
to you more, because I know thatthey're going to want to.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
So I'm real easy to find.
So my website isVivianCumminscom and you spell
my last name C-U-M-I-N-S, soVivianCumminscom, and we've
designed that website so you canget a lot of information.
So I got a blog there where Iwrite a lot of stuff.
I have been published onYouVersion four times so I've
(21:42):
got some three-day devotionalsout there from YouVersion you
can link to there's.
Also, you'll be able to get tothe podcast starting May 1st.
You can get there from thatpage.
First started writing andgetting some things out there.
Three, four years ago Ideveloped a website called
Memory Blogger and really I justwanted to write my memories
(22:03):
because I'm very nostalgic and Ilove storytelling.
One of the books that I'mworking on is my Husband's Life,
and there's a lot of thingsthat people didn't know about,
and so we wanted to capturethose things.
I didn't want to get rid ofthat website.
That's my baby.
I love that website, and sowhat we do now is I open it up
to other people that eitherthey're aspiring writers or they
(22:25):
just want to share theirtestimony or they have a memory
they'd like to put out there.
They have a way that they cango in there, submit it to me.
I'll edit it for them and I'llget it published for them on
that site, and we've got acouple of writers out there that
are trying to get their start,so, yeah, they can go there as
well.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
I love that.
I will link to all of thisbelow.
Please reach out to her andconnect.
She's got a lot going on andyou're going to want to be in
her orbit, so I'm very excited.
So just thank you again forbeing here, my friend.
I'm excited that we're doingthis now and not back in
September.
That really the podcast wouldn'thave probably been on your
radar.
See, look at that, all divinetiming.
(23:02):
So just thank you again forbeing here, my friend, and until
next time, bye, bye.
Hey friend, what a joy it hasbeen to share today's journey
with you.
If you found a spark ofinspiration or a nugget of
wisdom that resonated, would youbless someone else by sharing
this episode with them?
It could be the encouragementthey need to step into their
(23:23):
purpose and calling.
Also, if you could spare amoment to leave a review, it
would mean the world to me.
I really appreciate yourfeedback and it really helps our
community grow.
Remember, the road todiscovering God's call for you
isn't one you have to walk alone.
So join me again next Mondayfor another episode where we'll
continue to explore the depthsof leadership and the heights of
(23:43):
our heavenly calling.
Until then, keep seeking, keepgrowing and keep trusting in his
plan.
God bless you and I'll catchyou on the flip side.
Bye, friend.
Hey, I'm Lemon.
I am just like you, sisterfriend.
Talk about stepping into thatoverflow that God has for us by
becoming those ultimate Proverbs31 women.
Hey, I'm Lemon.
I am just like you, sisterfriend.
I knew God had something morein store for me, but I couldn't
see a way out of the laundrypiles and, frankly, I resented
that.
Proverbs 31 woman.
How was I going to live up tothe hype?
(00:38):
That is until I found out howto really step into becoming
this Proverbs 31 woman throughleadership development.
In this podcast you're going tofind financial freedom,
leadership, growth andmotivation so you'll be able to
do all the things God has calledyou to do with ease and really
step into that land of milk andhoney.
Welcome back to the Milk andHoney podcast.
(01:00):
I'm your host, lemon Price, andI am so excited because I have
my friend, vivian on Vivian andI have been trying to make this
happen for months.
I actually was thinking aboutthis the other day it was
September when you wereoriginally, but isn't that wild.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
It is wild, life happened and we weren't able to
connect, but I think that'sperfect though, because this is
the time.
This is where we're supposed toget together.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yes, I am literally so excited that we were chatting
and just talking.
I'm like, oh my gosh, like yourhusband's a veteran just like
mine and we just have so much incommon.
She was just in my neck of thewoods in Savannah, which is
really fun.
So this divine timing.
I'll just say that that's right.
I agree, divine timing, and soI'm excited that you're here.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Do you want to tell us a little bit more about
yourself and things?
My friend, yeah.
So I am married to one of mybest friends ever best man in my
first wedding actually andwe've been together for 21 years
now, so that's amazing.
I have two bonus adult childrenwho also have children of their
own, so I'm a glammy to fivegrandkiddos.
I've been with the federalgovernment now for 25 years,
(02:10):
looking forward to thatretirement.
I'm a writer.
I have a blog.
I will be launching my ownpodcast on May 1st and it's
called Juggling Life, findingBalance.
And yeah, I've just beenspeaking to women about my
testimony and what God has shownme about living a balanced
lifestyle, and I'm tootlingaround with two books, so I got
(02:33):
a lot of things going on.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I love this.
Okay, I'm working on my firstbook right now and it is such a
process to work on, so hats offto you for having like multiple,
like good on you.
It's tough, yeah, it is tough,and I'm excited because your
podcast is about juggling lifeand finding balance, because I'm
excited to hear yourperspective on this.
That's what we want to talkabout today.
It's how do you do it when youhave all these things going on?
(02:58):
When you're a writer, a speaker, you know you're a stepmom,
you're a grandma, like you'remarried, you're traveling how
the heck do you do it?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Very intentionally.
I think that's probably a wordthat I've used so much over the
last few years.
I'll just back up a little bit.
So, really, where this allstarted for me was it's going on
four years now, but I had anabsolute mental breakdown.
Absolute breakdown because ofwhat you just mentioned.
I was doing all the things Iwasn't doing my first book, I
(03:29):
wasn't doing the podcasting orany of that stuff yet, but
working myself just almost tothe point of mental exhaustion.
Actually, I think I wasmentally exhausted, but I also
was feeling like there had to bemore to life than this than
working, than striving to beperfect.
I am a recovering perfectionistand control freak.
I say recovering because it'san everyday thing that I have to
(03:51):
again be intentional about andlean on God for help there.
But I just reached a pointwhere I was like there has to be
more to my life than this.
I was 48 and just reached outto God in the middle of my
living room floor and just saidI'm tired of my life.
There has to be more to it thanthis.
What is my purpose?
Do I even have a purpose?
Because I know that you diedfor me and there has to be more
(04:16):
than this.
So I pretty much rededicated mylife.
I've been a Christian since Iwas little and so I just got
lost, lost in selfish ambition,lost in just trying to continue
to climb the ladder of successwith my career.
And I reached out to God andsaid I'm all in.
Whatever you have to do tochange my spirit, to show me my
(04:37):
purpose, to give me that callingthat's been waiting for me,
I'll do whatever.
And so that's when I entered awilderness season, pretty much
immediately following thatrededication, and God really had
to show.
And I knew what was happeningbecause, like I said, I've grown
up in church, I've been aChristian for a very long time
and I know when you ask forthese types of things, you need
(04:59):
to prepare, because you're beingprepared in that wilderness
season.
And so God was what was revealedto me during that time frame,
and I won't necessarily go intoall those details, but I just
didn't trust God at all.
I always wanted to be incontrol of everything, and so I
never gave God that control, andthat was one of the first
(05:20):
things that he revealed to me,and I had to be put in positions
to where I had no control.
My parents were very sick atone point.
I couldn't control that, I gotcancer.
I couldn't control that and Ihad to learn to trust and rely
on God.
And he revealed to me duringthat time frame, in such a
loving way, that I did have aspirit of pride.
(05:41):
I did have a spirit ofperfectionism and control and
lack of trust and faith, and soduring this time it took a
little while, but I think that Ifinally was able to build up
some of that character.
And so during that time framealso too, again, god was just so
kind to me and showing me that,yes, you have these spirits in
(06:02):
you, but let me show you why.
And he revealed some childhoodmemories that would explain why
I have this desire to be perfect, why I have to be in control.
And so he revealed some thingsto me.
And there's a story that Ialways like to tell, because
anytime that I feel myselfgetting into some kind of an
extreme, wanting to be perfector in control, I think back to
(06:24):
this story.
But I was five years old and Iwas in kindergarten and I was
getting ready for a nap If youremember nap time when you're
little and I remember that I wastaking my little blanket and I
was fanning it out to lay down.
And all the other kids werelaid down, but I kept fanning my
blanket because when it wouldlie down it would ripple.
(06:45):
And I remember having just suchanxiety over that blanket not
lying perfectly and so I keptdoing it over.
And finally, my teachers, ifyou do that one more time, I'm
going to give you a spanking.
You need to lay down.
And I remember being so mad ather for making me accept
mediocrity.
This wasn't perfect and she wasforcing me to accept that.
(07:07):
As I look back, god wasrevealing to me, even as a
five-year-old how dofive-year-olds even how to be
perfect or how to be in control?
There was reasons for that, andGod started revealing those to
me so that I wouldn't be so hardon myself, as he was working on
my character.
And so when I start feelinglike I'm getting into that
extreme or whatever, I alwaysthink back to that little blonde
(07:28):
hair, ponytail girl, just sweetand innocent girl, and give her
, just reach out and give herthat love and let her know you
don't have to be perfect, wehave somebody that is perfect,
that we can lean on.
And so God revealed that to me.
And then the other thing wasthe whole balance thing, and it
really showed how out of balancemy life was.
And he basically just pointedout to me if you do these three
(07:50):
things, your life will be a lifeof balance.
And it's putting me first, takecare of yourself so you can do
the work that I have preparedfor you, and to have fun.
And those were my three pillarsthat he gave me, and that's
what I talk about now.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
That was a lot.
That was.
I love that.
I love this story because I'mlike, oh, I'm like these things
are so tense, so I want to liketouch on.
I want to touch on thewilderness season for sure,
cause I think we've all beenthere and it is a little like
scary to be in a wildernessseason.
But then also I would love toknow, like, where do you think
five-year-old Vivian had thisperfectionism and like where did
(08:28):
that come from?
And where do you think, wheredo you think that comes from for
us?
Because I am also a strugglingperfectionist and so I would
love to.
I'm like, for my own benefit, Iwould love to know your
thoughts on that means I'm not apsychologist or anything like
(08:56):
that, this is just my experience.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
But there's some people that it's a learned
behavior and for me I believe itwas a learned behavior, even at
five, because the memories thatI have is and I tease my dad
now because he's 80, 81 now andI'm like dad, I'm the way I am
because of you, because my dadis a perfectionist.
He has always had to haveeverything perfect and there's
reasons why he is the way he is.
And as I'm learning history ofmy family, I'm like okay, that
(09:20):
makes sense, You're doing whatyou were raised to do, so it was
just generational.
I remember things like I alwayshad to have my bed made before
I would go to school and I waslate sometimes because my bed
wasn't made.
I remember watching my dad whenhe would build things, how
frustrated he would get when hecouldn't get things just perfect
.
And he was amazing witheverything he did carpentry,
(09:42):
mechanics, whatever.
My dad can do anything but hehad to have it so meticulous all
the time and when he would getmad.
I remember him getting mad,throwing hammers, punching walls
and stuff out of frustrationbecause he couldn't get it
perfect, and I observed that andthen there was just little
things like.
There was a time in my lifewhere I was maturing as a young
(10:05):
woman.
I blossomed before a lot of theother girls did in my class and
so I was top heavy and I wantedto hide it.
When you're sixth grade andseventh grade and you're the
only one with a body like this,it's embarrassing and so I'd
want to hide it.
And so I would wear baggyclothes.
I'd wear really big baggyshirts and if I had a dress on
there for a while I don't knowif you remember shoulder pad,
(10:27):
Remember those shoulder pads andthen, like the dress, the waist
would be this drop waist andthen the dress would come out.
Anyway, I had these dresses andthey would have belts that
would go with them, but I wouldnever wear the belt, because if
I cinched up the belt then Iwould look a little
disproportioned.
And so I just remember my dadwould be like you look like a
slob, you need to go put thatbelt on.
(10:48):
And I look back and I'm likegosh, dad, I have all things to
say to a pre-adolescent girl,but he didn't mean any harm by
it, but that was hisperfectionist coming out right,
she's not that tidy, she'sfrumpy and stuff like that and
wanted me to look nice and stuff.
And so I look back at thosethings and I tease them.
(11:09):
Now because I'm at that pointwhere it's okay.
But I do think that has a lot todo with it.
And when you're little likethat and things that I've been
reading, it's like children wantto want that approval from
their parents and if they'reseeing that, what makes their
parent happy is when you dothings perfectly and don't mess
up and don't spill your Kool-Aidand don't make a mess at the
(11:31):
dinner table and you keep yourroom clean and your toys picked
up.
That makes people happy.
And so you just keep doingthose things to make people
happy so that you're gettingthat approval and stuff.
And so that's just.
It just kept building andbuilding into each season of my
life.
I remember in junior high whenmy hair wouldn't curl perfectly,
(11:51):
I'd have an all-out breakdown.
My mom would end up calling mein sick to work because I'd get
myself so worked up and I wastrying to get my hair perfect
because if you go to school andyour hair was messed up,
whatever, you get teased.
So it just kept going throughevery season of my life.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Okay, I love what you said because, first of all, I
think you and I it's veryinteresting when we think about
this.
So I also was well endowed inmy youth and still am.
And it's very interesting thatI think I took the instead of
wearing really baggy clothes,because I was a cheerleader and
a dancer.
Instead, I was the one who woretwo regular bras, two sports
bras, and like a cami on top tosuck it in and try to minimize
(12:32):
it out.
And it's very interestingbecause even I remember six
months ago, a year ago maybe, myhusband and I we were in
Savannah and I had a dress onand I had I don't know, like a
bandeau on, because again, I'mstill like uncomfortable with it
, and somebody actually sent mea very nasty email about how I
cannot be a believer if you cansee, even like the top of the
(12:55):
cleavage line, oh boy.
And how like inappropriate itwas for me and all these things
and like all of the shame andstuff.
Like I was like whoa, I waslike am I like?
Am I a problem?
Anyway, I appreciate yousharing that because I think
women needed to hear that,because I know that was
something like I.
They're almost 34.
It is something that I stillhave to deal with sometimes, but
(13:17):
I want to ask you thisperfectionism that you dealt
with, how did that then impactyour relationship with the Lord?
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yeah, it impacted.
Let me just say this I didn'tknow that it was impacting my
relationship with the Lord.
I didn't know that it wasimpacting my relationship with
the Lord, but that certainlyexplains why my life has been so
unfulfilled.
Up until that moment, I was onthe living room floor
rededicating my life, becauseI'd been spending my entire life
needing everything to beperfect, and that's exhausting.
(13:48):
I went to church, I read myBible, but I just didn't include
God in any decision I ever made.
I did everything on my own andnever looked to Him for anything
.
And having everything have to beperfect, like from work-related
stuff.
I never prayed over my workbefore.
I never prayed over my staff.
I never did any of those things, and so I feel like I was doing
(14:12):
all of this work, takingcontrol of everything.
God's just been sitting on thesidelines waiting for me to give
it up to him and reach out tohim and ask him for help,
instead of me trying to doeverything and to do it
perfectly.
And so I think, like I said,it's just a very unfulfilling
life, and I'm more aware of itnow, and I was just never aware
(14:33):
of it before until he revealedthat to me.
And so now that I'm aware of itnow and I was just never aware
of it before until he revealedthat to me and so now that I'm
aware of it, I can see when Istart getting into those
perfectionist tendencies.
And then I know I need to backoff.
And OK, why do I feel like Ihave to be perfect right now?
What am I trying to control andwhat do I need to ask God, or
give it up to God, or ask Godfor his help?
Speaker 1 (14:53):
I love that answer.
So how does it feel?
It's like a recoveringperfectionist, because you just
said like we still haveperfectionist tendencies, like
the control tendencies stillcome out, like they're going to
happen.
So then, how does it feel?
Because I think that's hard,especially when you're type A
and you have these like how isit now emotionally, spiritually,
et cetera, for you to be inthis place of surrender and like
(15:17):
, how does that feel?
Did you struggle with thesurrender and was that a
practice that you had to do?
I would love to know about that.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
I'm still surrendering every single day
and it's hard.
I am so not gonna lie.
It is hard, and so I justsurrendered something last month
I guess it was end of March.
Like I said, I have these twobooks that I've been dabbling in
and went to a writer'sconference last month.
And I really felt okay, god, Ithink it's time, I think this is
(15:47):
it.
I'm going to start pitchingthis, I'm going to start really
getting into it and we're goingto see this happen, because I do
feel like God has given me thatpromise you will publish a book
.
It's deep in my spirit and so Iknow it's there, and so I was
like trying to push the timelineup and thinking that this was
going to happen at this writer'sconference.
And when I got there Lamin, I'mgoing to tell you what I cried
(16:11):
every single night in my cabin.
I had another breakdown on thefloor.
Me and floors.
We got something.
Oh.
And so I'm just like I just Idon't.
For whatever reason, I didn'twant to be there.
I wasn't interested in meetinganybody, networking with anybody
.
I met with one agent and he gaveme some feedback and I took it
(16:32):
so personally that it justdestroyed me and I'm like why
are you acting like this?
And I went on a walk to try toclear my head and I'm sitting on
this bench and I felt like thisbreeze, and I felt like in the
midst of that breeze it was stop, stop striving for something
that I don't have for you.
Right now.
This is not the season.
(16:52):
And so the other thing thatcame over me was you have got to
surrender this book idea to me.
It is not your book.
Neither one of them are yourbooks.
They're my books, and when I'mready for you to launch them, I
will tell you.
And until then, I've alreadyoutlined these things.
You need to keep doing thethings that I've already told
(17:13):
you to do.
And what would you seriously doright now if an agent said yes,
let me sign you.
I need to get the first sixchapters by I don't know June?
I would have freaked out.
There's no way.
I work full time, and so it justwas like you have got to
surrender this to me.
It's not yours, it's mine, it'salways been mine.
Oh my gosh, I'm sitting thereon that bench and I'm just
(17:36):
bawling because I'm like, I getit, I get it, but it's just.
I felt like I was surrenderingmy dream and I was grieving.
God is not telling me no, it'snot going to happen, he's just
saying not yet.
But I had to grieve that.
It was like a two and a halfhour drive home from that
conference and on that drivehome, me and God just talked it
out and I'm okay now.
But I have to be cautiousbecause I will likely fall back
(17:58):
into that again.
When I'm ready to launch thisbook again and he tells me not
yet, I'm going to have tosurrender it probably.
Yeah, it's.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
I love that you said you grieved right Because God
didn't tell you no.
And even if he did tell you no,we talk about we haven't had
any biological children.
Even if God did say no, or it'snot going to look the way you
think it is, it's not on thetimeline you think it is.
I think it's okay to grieve alittle bit and be like okay, I
trust you, lord, like I trustthe timeline, I trust the
(18:28):
process, I trust the timeline, Itrust the process, I trust you
in this.
But also it's okay to say thiskind of sucks I wanted to do it
now and it doesn't feel good.
And not that God promises usthat it's ever going to feel
good, or just that His purposeis greater than ours.
Trusting in that, oh, I lovethat.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I just feel I've been through it the last three years
.
You know wilderness season.
I've been through it the lastthree years.
You know wilderness season.
I went through a spiritualwarfare season which I had never
experienced that before andthat really was craziness.
And so now I'm just in thissurrender mode and that is so
incredibly new to me.
I'm almost 52 years old andit's embarrassing to say that
(19:07):
I'm like I've never surrenderedto Christ.
But I feel like I've just heldon for so long and so I'm having
to loosen that grip and let go,and my flesh hates it.
So I find myself having to justtalk myself through it a lot
and say, ok, it's going to be OK.
And here's the other thing tooI have to be OK with.
(19:27):
If, say, for instance, I writethis and it never gets published
in my lifetime.
I have to be okay with I mightnot see it on this side of
heaven.
And so I've had to really getto that point where it's I'm
okay with whatever, because it'snot mine, it's just not mine.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
I love this conversation so much.
If you had to leave ourlisteners with a piece of advice
about surrendering orperfectionism or anything like
that, what would you say to them?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Oh, first thing I would say is you know what, even
if you're not ready, even ifyou're like, oh, I don't want to
, I don't want to ask God forthat, I don't want to give this
up.
I don't want to ask God to helpchange me, ask Him change at a
little bit of time.
Give me the desire to wantchange.
I think that's so importantbecause, like I said, I went my
whole life up until about fouryears ago not realizing that's
(20:23):
what I needed.
And so, if you're findingyourself striving, if you're
finding yourself feelingunfulfilled and stressed and
overwhelmed, ask God to show youwhat's the underlying reason
for that.
And God, like I said, god is sokind, he's not just going to
whack you over the head and belike.
He'll show you.
In scripture, somebody might.
You might see it on a podcast,you might hear it today.
(20:44):
God will start planting thoseseeds to get your spirit ready
for the preparation and stuffthat he needs to do in you.
I would just say reach out toGod and say show me where I need
to come up higher, and thenjust be open and listening to
his voice for each little pebblethat he drops.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
I love that so much.
I love the conviction that youhave about this topic now,
having gone through it, and Ifeel like if you can do it, then
anybody can do it, as somebodywho was a perfectionist and
works on that.
So I just want to thank you forbeing here.
Where can everybody go toconnect with you and just talk
to you more, because I know thatthey're going to want to.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
So I'm real easy to find.
So my website isVivianCumminscom and you spell
my last name C-U-M-I-N-S, soVivianCumminscom, and we've
designed that website so you canget a lot of information.
So I got a blog there where Iwrite a lot of stuff.
I have been published onYouVersion four times so I've
(21:42):
got some three-day devotionalsout there from YouVersion you
can link to there's.
Also, you'll be able to get tothe podcast starting May 1st.
You can get there from thatpage.
First started writing andgetting some things out there.
Three, four years ago Ideveloped a website called
Memory Blogger and really I justwanted to write my memories
(22:03):
because I'm very nostalgic and Ilove storytelling.
One of the books that I'mworking on is my Husband's Life,
and there's a lot of thingsthat people didn't know about,
and so we wanted to capturethose things.
I didn't want to get rid ofthat website.
That's my baby.
I love that website, and sowhat we do now is I open it up
to other people that eitherthey're aspiring writers or they
(22:25):
just want to share theirtestimony or they have a memory
they'd like to put out there.
They have a way that they cango in there, submit it to me.
I'll edit it for them and I'llget it published for them on
that site, and we've got acouple of writers out there that
are trying to get their start,so, yeah, they can go there as
well.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
I love that.
I will link to all of thisbelow.
Please reach out to her andconnect.
She's got a lot going on andyou're going to want to be in
her orbit, so I'm very excited.
So just thank you again forbeing here, my friend.
I'm excited that we're doingthis now and not back in
September.
That really the podcast wouldn'thave probably been on your
radar.
See, look at that, all divinetiming.
(23:02):
So just thank you again forbeing here, my friend, and until
next time, bye, bye.
Hey friend, what a joy it hasbeen to share today's journey
with you.
If you found a spark ofinspiration or a nugget of
wisdom that resonated, would youbless someone else by sharing
this episode with them?
It could be the encouragementthey need to step into their
(23:23):
purpose and calling.
Also, if you could spare amoment to leave a review, it
would mean the world to me.
I really appreciate yourfeedback and it really helps our
community grow.
Remember, the road todiscovering God's call for you
isn't one you have to walk alone.
So join me again next Mondayfor another episode where we'll
continue to explore the depthsof leadership and the heights of
(23:43):
our heavenly calling.
Until then, keep seeking, keepgrowing and keep trusting in his
plan.
God bless you and I'll catchyou on the flip side.
Bye, friend.
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