The Hardest Skill in Business

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Managing people is the toughest skill in business. You can hire someone to handle finances, sales, or even operations, but leadership requires a personal touch that no one else can replicate. In this episode, Robby and George break down why strong management skills are essential, how to create accountability without micromanaging, and the fine line between being a friend and a boss.

Throughout their conversation, they highlight the need for a management style that balances casual interaction with professionalism. By developing genuine relationships with employees, managers can create an atmosphere of trust and accountability. They also share practical strategies for selecting employees to attend these engaging events while ensuring fair recognition of hard work.

Beyond just trips and events, they also talk about what really makes employees feel valued—whether it’s career development, team-wide activities, or simply being recognized for their hard work. If you’re a business owner or leader trying to figure out the best way to invest in your team, this episode will give you some valuable insights.

Episode Transcript

George (00:00):
Do you like doing things for your employees, like
extracurricular things?

Robby (00:07):
Me.
Yeah, sometimes, sometimes Likeoutside of elaborate, Inside of
work.

George (00:12):
Outside of work, yeah, but do you say what is it?
Or do you just like crack thewhip and just go, oi, work,
don't fucking talk to me untilyou finish this job.

Robby (00:18):
Oh no, I'm a like, I'll jerk around.
Yeah, I'll you know, I'll jokearound, yeah, I'll you know.

George (00:23):
I've been I think I've been always casual in that
regard.
I've got a level of I'll talkto them like they're a friend,
but there's still that level ofaccountability and whatnot.
Yeah, I develop a goodrelationship with them.
Do you know what I mean?
For you or for them?
I think it's both ways.

Robby (00:42):
I think that works both ways, it's mutually beneficial.

George (00:45):
But that's who I am as a person as well.
So I don't necessarily go inthere with the intent of I'm
going to do this to get acertain result out of you.
That's just my management style, I reckon, where I'll go in and
I'll talk to you the same way Italk to them.
I talk to you Maybe a littlebit less sweary, but not much,

(01:06):
and also depends whether it'smale or female how much I swear.

Robby (01:10):
Of course it depends, of course it depends.
Imagine you spoke to men andwomen the same.
That would make you gay.
That would make you anequalitiness guy.
That would make you anidiotiness guy.
That would make you an idiot.
It would you know what I mean.
How can you not talk to themdifferently?

George (01:32):
It's also different personalities as well.
I've also had that over theyears too Guys that talk
differently.
You'll talk differently to themdepending on their personality
and how they react.
Can you share an example Withif I do anything like
extracurricular stuff, or anexample with how I speak to them
?

Robby (01:50):
When you say extracurricular, what do you
mean?

George (01:52):
Oh look, it's stuff outside of work, but also inside
of work.
So, for example, I'm going,yeah, like Friday night pizza.
Is that what you mean?
No, like I've got in a coupleof weeks time.
Yeah, like Friday night pizza.
Is that what you mean?
No, like I've got in a coupleof weeks' time.
Yeah, by the time, this airs ina couple of weeks going to the
F1.
And I've got corporate ticketsto go to the F1.

(02:13):
I've got five tickets per day.
It costs a pretty penny becausethey are the corporate tickets
and we're in a pretty goodlocation or you can eat food and
drink and all that sort ofstuff.
Yeah, it was a good venue.
Won't be there this time.
Oh, look, there still might bea seat there.
We'll see how this podcast goesfor you.
I'm not going to be there.
Oh, you're going to be overseasat the time, of course.

Robby (02:33):
Thanks for letting me know that if I was here I still
wouldn't.

George (02:35):
No well, I mean there was criteria.
So far you've been pretty good,so we'll see how this episode
goes.
Anyway, Just below the venture,you might come back.
You might come back.
That's how good they are.
But for that I've done thatpurely for the purpose of
networking and connecting withcurrent and future clients as
well.
That's the purpose of it.
It's not as much as I enjoygoing to the F1 and like the F1.

(02:57):
I'm not doing it.
I didn't go and spend all thatmoney just to go and watch the
race, just to go and watch therace.

Robby (03:01):
It's filling up your fun cup.

George (03:02):
Yeah, that's right, but it does do that too.
Now I am taking on each ofthose days.
I've got Friday, saturday,sunday corporate tickets, five
tickets per day.
I am going to take at least oneof my employees on each of
those days.

Robby (03:17):
So you take someone from the team.
So it's four days, yeah,correct, and you'll take someone
from your team on each day.
Yeah, at least one, at leastone.

George (03:25):
These tickets are look full disclosure.
I don't really give a fuck.
It's two grand a ticket.

Robby (03:30):
Does everyone on the team get to go?

George (03:34):
No.

Robby (03:35):
So there's certain people on the team that will not get a
day.

George (03:37):
Correct.
I can't.
I don't have enough tickets.
Yeah, so I'd probably have toleave it for the senior.
No, it's not even that.
I just cannot take everyone,Otherwise it'd be the team every
day.
You know what I mean and that'snot what it's for.
It's there actually to suit to.
It's also to build a connectionwith clients, not just with the
intent of I'm taking you, giveme a job.

Robby (04:05):
You're going to build a deeper meaningful connection
with those people as well bygoing and mingling outside of
work a little bit too.
So are you going to use thischance to hope your employees
listen and give them a messageand say so-and-so.
That's right, this is your cut.

George (04:15):
Your cut from the list.
You are cut from the list.
If you listen to this podcastand mention this, you're back on
it.

Robby (04:23):
There we go.
If that's not incentive, Idon't know what is.
That's right so?

George (04:27):
I'm going to do that and I don't have to because I could
very easily take anyone else.
You know what I mean Otherbusiness associates.
I could take another client butI'm choosing to take them as
well because I know that each ofthe people I'm going to take on
each of the days willappreciate it and enjoy it and I
feel that it is a little sideperk to working here as well.
You get to come to these thingsextracurricular activities

(04:50):
mingle with clients.
There will be an element ofdon't get blind, drunk and make
a fool of yourself in front ofall our clients and don't go
there and say, oh you, bigC-bomb, what's happening.
You still got to maintain alevel of professionalism because
you're representing the companyon this extracurricular
activity.
So, yeah, we're going to dothat and I feel that they will

(05:14):
appreciate.
Oh, not, I feel I know theyappreciate it.
You know because, as I said,it's I could have taken anyone
and I'm choosing to take themand I feel that that's kind of a
little perk to working here andenjoying that and having that
connection outside of work,outside of these four walls.

Robby (05:28):
Yeah, okay, but that's not okay, does that's not
something you're doing for theteam, though?
It's like?

George (05:34):
a benefit Specifically for them.

Robby (05:35):
Yeah, well, yeah, and also there's going to be people
who don't get to go.
Yeah, that's right.

George (05:48):
So it's like it's not really a team.
No, no, no, like if you we dothis, let's just say it would be
.
It would be primarily for themore senior people in the
business and people that haveshown, you know, longevity and
loyalty and all that sort ofstuff.
So there is a bit more of that.
For example and not to shit onmy apprentice, he's not coming.
Do you know what I mean?
Not for any other reasons, likehe's actually honestly, over
the years, one of the best I'vehad.
So I'm real happy with him.
And it's not to say hey, maybeI changed my mind and go okay,

(06:09):
you know what.
Well done for putting in such agreat effort.
How about you come here with usthis week, this weekend or
whatever it might be If a ticketrandomly freed up?
So, why not the apprentice?
Why not in this instance?
I just feel that other people Idon't know if the word's more
deserving, but they've paidtheir dues to a degree.
They've done the time, they'veput in a big effort, especially

(06:30):
over the last few months We'vehad hectic, hectic we've said it
the other day how busy 25 hasbeen since I got back have not
rested a single day, we've justbeen go, go, go, go go.
It's going to be cool to havethat little break in between and
enjoy that.
But I also still want to doteam things as well, and my PA,
when she's back in the office,will be organizing something to

(06:51):
do as a group for us to get abit more connection.

Robby (06:59):
A bit more camaraderie.

George (07:01):
Yeah, absolutely, Because it has been, and that's
a thing.
You often get stuck in thattrap and I don't want to get
stuck in that trap.
I'm happy for everyone to beworking hard and have the
pressure there, but it is goodto also release not the
work-life balance, just priorityHaving that bit of priority, a
bit of focus on not just beinghere to punch in and punch out.

Robby (07:23):
So what are you going to do, like what's the-.

George (07:25):
The extracurricular with everyone.
Yeah, what do you got?
Oh, look, it'll be something ofsome like some sort of an
activity somewhere.
It could be an escape room, itcould be just like bowling.
It can be going out doing anactivity of some sort, a team
building exercise.
Perhaps there's plenty of thosecompanies out there that do
those things outside of yourbusiness where you can actually

(07:46):
have a benefit of learningsomething like a leadership
skill or whatever it might bethrough.
So learning through experience.
There could be an element ofthat that we do.
There's also other trainingsthat I want to get people
involved in and learn about andpay for them to do.
It can be something that canprogress their own professional
career.
Now, obviously for the good ofthe company, that they become

(08:09):
better and better trained andbetter skilled.
But if they one day leave thecompany which we all know they
will at some stage, at leastthey have those skills that they
can take on into their nextrole or their next venture in
life.

Robby (08:21):
You know what I think the number one, most important
thing?
Like I've come to learn thatthe most important thing you can
do in your business is managepeople.
Yeah, like, that is the numberone skill.
You can hire someone to run thenumbers.
You can hire someone to managesales.
You can hire someone to do my,but like no one is going to have

(08:44):
the level of influence on thepeople in your team or even in
your leadership group Like youcan, yeah.
Or someone who has a share inthe business can Do.
You know what I mean?
Like someone who has that realauthoritarian leadership type

(09:05):
personality.
I reckon that's the number oneskill, dude.

George (09:09):
I've learned that over the years.
It's taken time to learn thatas well.
Ages, yeah, and it extends pastyour initial team, I believe,
to other stakeholders likecontractors and suppliers as
well, because if you'recontinuously using the same
subcontractors, suppliers, allthese people, you end up
developing relationships withthem and they kind of become

(09:30):
part of the extended team.
For example, I try to use thesame plumber, electrician,
carpenter and so on and so forthacross my projects in the
construction company, becauseyou build that rapport, you
build that connection and workbecomes a little bit easier when
you have that connection.
And then I find that, forexample, we had this thing that

(09:52):
we needed to do on one of oursites and I won't get into it.
No, get into it, no, it's just,I won't get into the technical
stuff.

Robby (10:00):
Give us the technical stuff.
Okay, long story short Disswhoever you're going to diss.

George (10:09):
No, it's none of that who made a mistake.
No dissing this time.
Name and shame Simon.
Simon, if I can die, no, Idon't know.

Robby (10:12):
There's a big deal.
It was, yeah, Simon.
It could be someone else, butstill blame Simon We'll still
blame him.

George (10:16):
So we needed to get this task done and no one was
putting their hand up to do it,like everyone kept hand passing
the buck, like I'm talking notjust from internally in the team
, but with other subcontractors.
Something needed to be done on ajob, yeah, but it was just too
hard basket for everyone.
They're too busy too this too,this too this and it took me
getting involved, but it wasn'tjust me doing the actual task

(10:39):
itself.
It was, then, convincing otherpeople that they needed to do it
and take ownership andresponsibility, and that skill
of me being able to tell them,convince them, show them the
importance to be able to do itand to get it done, I think, is
something you do build over time, for sure, and it comes down to
, as you said, managing peopleand being able to get the most
out of them, and that's whathappened in that instance.

(11:00):
Everyone was passing the buck,no one wanted to do it, and I
said, right, you need to do this.
For this reason, you need to dothis.
Because of this, I need you todo this.
You need to help us out.
I'm pulling in a favor.
Okay, I'll give you a lot ofwork.
This particular contract I go.
You get 750 grand worth of workthrough two projects.
I go, you're going to do this.
You need to do it.

(11:20):
We need to maintain therelationship between you and me,
between the developer and me,between the developer and you.
There are so many stakeholdersinvolved here.
Trying to brush this under therug isn't going to help anyone.
It's actually conflict delayed,conflict intensified type
scenario.
Don't delay it, bite it in thebutt.
Get it done now.

(11:40):
Bite it in the butt, nip it inthe butt.
I think it's.
Nip it in the butt.
Sorry, there we go, nip it inthe butt.
Nip it in the butt, I thinkit's.
Nip it in the butt.
Sorry, there we go, nip it inthe butt.
Back to Same thing Nip and bite.
Is it Tomato tomato, tomatotomato.
So that ability to manage thatteam let's call it was critical

(12:02):
to that task getting done, andit got done and, as a result,
the project wasn't delayed,because it could have
effectively had a huge delay onthe project.
And now we're on track,everything's moving, everyone's
less stressed, because this hadthe potential to blow out and
cost tens of thousands ofdollars.
And they're the type of skillsthat I want to teach other

(12:23):
people, so that I don't let'sjust say we're in Vegas in a
couple of weeks, which we are.
Let's not say it we will be inVegas in a couple of weeks.
I'm probably not going to bereadily available to make that
phone call, all right.
So then the team's going toneed to be able to step up and
go cool.
I got this, and I think thatskill's vitally important.

Robby (12:44):
Yeah, I think building a team is the hardest thing.

George (12:51):
Yeah, it is.
I used to think I had it reallygood as far as and I still do
I've got great employers, I'vegot a great team.
But it still gets to that point, especially this year, where
I'm looking at it and go well,how do they become better?
One of my employees said Ireckon we could put on another
contract administrator.
I'm like I don't think so.
I reckon you could work 30%harder.

(13:11):
Then, if I got that out ofeveryone, I wouldn't need to put
on anyone.
It wasn't as in, I wasn't havinga dig.
He's working very hard, butit's like no, no, you can do
more.
I know you can do more becauseI've done it.
I can see your ability.
I know you're competent enoughto be able to do more.
We just got to get you theskills to be able to do that.
Is it resources, Is ittechnology?

(13:32):
Is it training?
What do you need to get thereand to get that done?
Do you need to spend a day withme so I can show you some stuff
and give him those skills to beable to deliver more?

Robby (13:42):
What do you generally find it is with team?
Because I experience the samething.
I feel like this took you thatlong, man.
I genuinely feel like I couldhave done this quicker.
Yeah.
So what do you find itgenerally is when you've got a
team member who takes twice aslong or three times as long to
do something than you feel likeit would take you.

George (14:04):
The first thing I would do is is it a lack of
understanding?
Is that what it is?
It could be as simple as that.
I don't know how to use thisprogram, or I don't understand
it, or the task I find itdifficult to this, this, this.
So how do you break thatbarrier down from it taking you
45 minutes when it should takeyou 15?
What's the issue there withthat?

(14:26):
Is there something you don'tknow?
Because I'm doing it so quick,because I know the software
really well.
Okay, great, let's get you sometraining.
Is it a matter of oh, I'm sobusy I forget.
Okay, because I have thathappen a lot.
I'm like cool.
Every morning, 8.30 or 8 am,put a reminder, a meeting
request, in your calendar so itpops up at 8 am.
Do this, you prompt it everysingle day and then eventually

(14:48):
it'll become a habit and youwon't need that reminder there.
I do that myself.
I'll be like cool.
On this date I've got to pay,for example, my Amex.
I put it the day it's due.
On my statement's due, I put areminder, otherwise I will
forget 100%.
Me forgetting is going to costthe business $3,000 late fee, so

(15:09):
I don't necessarily want to godown that path where I'm not
accountable and just thinking ohno, no, I'll remember that I
need to pay that on the 14th.
I'll remember because the 14thwill come around and be like-.

Robby (15:21):
What if you don't?
Yeah, there's a consequence.

George (15:23):
What if something?

Robby (15:24):
happens?
What if you get distracted?
What if you've got a busy day?

George (15:26):
What if you're?

Robby (15:26):
sick.
What if?

George (15:28):
Yeah, a thousand and one things can come up.
So there's that aspect.
And then giving them the tools.
It's like, what was that appthat you use?
You were telling me the otherday where you communicate with
all your team and you havedifferent chats about different
projects and different thingsSlack, slack, slack.
So I'm going to talk to youabout that later, because I
think we really need a Slack.
We need something.
We need something.
Yeah, it's like is it amondaycom?

(15:49):
Is it a?
Yeah, but you know somethingwhere everyone can see what's
going on on that particularproject.

Robby (15:55):
Don't you use WhatsApp?

George (15:56):
Yeah, we use WhatsApp.

Robby (15:57):
So do you want project management or communication?
Because they're not the same.

George (16:01):
Both I probably want, I don't know.
Both, oh well, not, I probablywant, I don't know.
I need to try.
They're not the same, yeah,yeah, we've got a project
management software which we'retrialing at the moment.
This is the other thing.
Like I'm spending money now totrial a project management
software, if it works andeveryone uses it and it's good,
let's fucking go.
How good is that?

Robby (16:22):
Yeah.
I think, there's also Is Slackmore communication.

George (16:25):
Communication, yeah okay , but can you put a list of
tasks in there that people aredoing or that have been done, or
how does it normally work?
Is it just different chats likeWhatsApp?
Is that effectively what it?

Robby (16:36):
is yeah, but it's way more like you can do so much on
Slack.
You can have huddles, calls,video calls, meetings, canvases,
channels directly for whateveryou want.
Really Like we have a channelfor every client, then we have a
channel for every department,then we have channels for the

(16:59):
stuff that like random stuff.
You know food?
We've got a food channel.
Show you lunch.
You know what I mean.
Like just anything.
I've got a food channel.
Show you lunch.
You know what I mean.
Like just anything.
A learning channel.
Yeah.
I've got a.
Can you help channel.
You know like, hey, you getstuck with something.
You don't know how to do thisedit.
Drop it in the channel, maybesomeone else on the team knows.
You know what I mean and I'llproudest moments when I saw the

(17:22):
team collaborating on somethingand I just kind of watched.
I was like I made this.

George (17:32):
You got that happening.
They're right, they found theanswer.
Come to me with solutions, notproblems.
I'm massive on that too.
I get asked a thousandquestions a day, and sometimes I
have to prompt them and remindthem hey, this isn't a question
for me.
My old man does it a lotbecause he knows I know the
answer and he always has.
So he'll call me up.
He's like oh, what sizereinforcement do I need for this
, this, this and this?
I said why are you talking tome?

(17:53):
Call me if you want to ask mehow my day is, no worries, but
don't ask me what size this is,what size that is, where do I
find this information?
Call Angelo, call Mike.
Don't call me for stuff likethat.

Robby (18:03):
Maybe that's it Because I have to stop.

George (18:05):
It could be, but I don't care.
Call me later, I'm busy.
I'm busy.
I have to stop what I'm doingand stop concentrating on that
task.
Answer your phone call so youcan tell me an irrelevant piece
of information, and then I haveto go fuck what was I doing
again and then go back into thattask to start doing it again,
then I get another phone callfrom the other bloke asking me a
similar question.

(18:25):
Guys, again me trying totransition into the CEO role
means they need to understandI'm not interested in the
day-to-day operational things.
Have you ever thought about?

Robby (18:36):
this is something I do with my team and we're about to
transform into this.
By the time this comes out, wewould have started doing what
I'm about to talk about Now.
I catch up with everyone firstthing in the morning, call what
he got on, what he's doing, blah, blah, blah.
But we're about to transfer itto a team huddle, meaning once a
day at one point.
We'll catch up with everyone inthe team on one call and we'll

(18:59):
go around.
Everyone will say theirpriority for the day.
Do you know what I mean?

George (19:02):
Is that best?

Robby (19:03):
to do in the morning?
Yeah, maybe not first thing,because what it does is well, I
haven't rolled it out yet, soI'll let you know, but I've been
told don't do it first thing,like, do it a little bit after,
let people start their day,because then if there's any
speed humps, hurdles, you cansort them out there.
Do you know what I mean?
It's like cool, what do youneed?
What do you need?
What's your priority, priority,priority, priority.
Cool, everyone knows wherethey're going, what they're

(19:24):
doing.
Cool, let's go bang.
You know what I mean.
And it's kind of likeeveryone's got what they need
and they've asked the questionsthey need to and they're loaded
and ready for the day.

George (19:36):
Yeah, I like that, but as long as it doesn't turn into
an hour and you need to controlit, dude, someone needs to
control the meeting.
Yeah, that's right, it's got tobe a narrative.
That's right, it's got to be anarrative.
There's got to be anunderstanding of what needs to
happen, because we used to dothat daily.

Robby (19:48):
If there's anything long form where someone needs to talk
for half an hour, you're likecool, this is not that, this
isn't the place.
Yeah, shush, you can, but rightnow the whole thing we need is
make sure no one's got any speedhumps, make sure everyone knows
what their priority for the dayand everyone knows what they're
doing today.
And go.

(20:09):
It's like 10 minutes, 15minutes a day.

George (20:11):
Yeah, I think if it's short and direct, I think that
can be powerful.
I think the risk with that iswhen meetings become blown out
into half an hour, 45 an hour,and it doesn't need to be.
I just think that'scounterproductive.
Everyone's just regurgitatingtheir issues and their problems.
And who's going to help me?

(20:32):
Who's going to help me?
Who's going?

Robby (20:33):
to help me.
If that's happening, you have aproblem.
There's either a person problemor a culture problem.
If someone is always, it'seither that person doesn't
belong here, like they're bad,and there's bad eggs.
Oh, without a doubt, yeah,without a doubt, there's bad
eggs.
You know, a mentor of mine oncesaid to me I had to.

(20:54):
I had a guy working for me thatI didn't.
He was the nicest guy man, buthe wasn't good, but he was so
kind and he used to always belike oh, you know, hey, robbie,
like um, you know, and he wouldtry and he would fuck shit up.
I'd get so upset, dude.
And then I was like, oh, dude,I got this guy.
He's not like performing, youknow what I do, he's a really

(21:15):
nice guy.
He's like fire him.
And I was like dude, like youknow, like.
I was expecting you to give melike an uh, I was expecting you
to give me something where I canimplement to make him better,
like a form of training,something.
And he's like, listen, you needto fire him, hug him.
And I'm like, yeah, fire him,then hug him Fire him.
Yeah, that's right.
And then he's like listen, hegoes.

(21:37):
You've been working this guyfor a while, yeah, he goes.
If you knew what you knew abouthim today before you hired him,
would you hire him again?
And I said nah, and he goesexactly.
Fire him.
And I was like fuck, but I didfire him, but that stuck with me
.
And now every time I have ateam member who might have that

(22:00):
toxic energy or who might be abad egg, or or sometimes they're
just not capable.
Sometimes they're really niceperson and have really good like
uh, behaviors and traits andand genuinely a good human.
They care a lot, but this is abusiness.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Come hang out after business.
You can come hang out.

(22:20):
You're a nice person, you'renice to have around, but right
now we're trying to make money.
You know what I mean.
And I always ask myself thatI'm like cool, knowing what I
know.
Now would I hire this personagain?
And if the answer's no, we movethem on pretty quickly.

George (22:36):
Yeah, and I think you've got to be quick with things
like that.
One of my mentors again similarconcept.
It's like fire everyone in yourbusiness once a quarter.
Yeah, it's like fire everyonein your business once a quarter,
yeah, that's sick.
Fire all of them once a quarter.
Just go, you're fired mentally.
Yeah, don't walk in there justwith a paintball, with a paint
gun and just shoot everyone.
Cut.

Robby (22:55):
You're cut.

George (22:56):
So fire them once, a quarter in your head, and then
look at your list whether it'sone, two, 10, 15 people.
Who are you bringing back thatnext day or that next moment
Fired?
Okay, now let's recruit rightaway.
Are you coming back?
Are you coming back?
Are you coming back?
And if there's a no or a maybethere, then you really need to
reconsider their position at theorganization.
I find and I've had this withpeople before in the past,

(23:18):
people that I've mentored inBuilder Relief, people I find
are often scared to fire people.
Why?
I think a couple of reasons A,it's uncomfortable.
You don't like the conversation.

Robby (23:31):
Oh, it's a horrible conversation yeah it's like oh,
I don't like.

George (23:33):
You know, I don't want to.
As you said, he's a nice guy,I've got nothing against him.
Okay, that's probably the firstone.
The second one is, I think, theway the laws are structured
here, everyone's nervous to firepeople as in yeah you should
have a structure Correct.

Robby (23:48):
This is where your contracts are important.

George (23:50):
This is where employee handbooks and company rules and
all these things are importantfor you to do and you need to do
particular things give them awarning.

Robby (23:59):
You know what I mean.
Have it all documented, that'sright, Because the day you fire
them-.

George (24:03):
That's right, because the day you fire them, it can't
just be you're fired.
And this is the thing right.
You can fire anyone at any timeyou can.
You could say, well, downturnin business operations, yeah,
you're fired.
It's not against the law for meto fucking fire you.
I don't have enough work,you're gone, that's it, that's
it.
That's the only thing.
Gone, that's it, that's it.

(24:25):
That's the only thing.
Now, if you go out and hire thatsame role in the next day and
they find out about it or it'sfound that you've done that,
yeah, then you could findyourself in a bit of trouble.
But there's again ways aroundit.
And Nine-tenths of the lawpossession is nine-tenths of the
law.
It's like they have to sue you,they have to get it out of you,
they have to prove negligencefrom you.

(24:47):
So it's still an effort.
It's not just oh yeah, here's50 grand away, you go, and it's
never going to be that either.
Do you know what I mean?
It's pay me four weeks' wage,okay, yeah, fuck off, don't talk
to me ever again.
So a couple of things.
I take it to heart now.
I really, really look at myteam and, as much as I like them

(25:09):
, I'm related to some of them.
So I'll look at it and I'll saythat I ask myself that question
a lot.
So would I hire you back?
And so far it's always yes,which is good.
But it's not to say thatthere's been days where I'm like
you're a solid no.
But that, I think, is also myown frustration sometimes when I
get under the pump and peopleare just annoying me.
So I've got to step back alittle bit and go no, no, let's
be serious, let's look at thefacts and also having a GM now

(25:33):
is going to be helpful with that, because I'm getting a second
opinion on that too.
Someone will come to me and sayor he'll come to me and say,
look, I don't think thisperson's performing and he
hasn't said this.
But he can come to me and say Ithink this person is an issue.
For these reasons, I'm like,okay, you're running the show,

(25:53):
you've got to either performance, manage him, so he needs to get
better, or she needs to getbetter, or it's a matter of
let's start having theconversation about where they
are in their life and what theyneed to do.
I can't remember who said this.
It might.
I think it was again a mentorof mine in the past.
A lot of the time you canactually get it out of the

(26:17):
employee that they're not theright fit for the business just
by asking a couple of strategicquestions too.
So where do you see yourself atthe business in the next five
years, the next three years, thenext 12 months?
Do you really think that thedirection of the company is in
line with what you want toachieve and your personal goals?
Sometimes I might go, you knowwhat?

(26:38):
Not really.
I don't think I want to be inconstruction anymore.
I think I really want to do theclient-side project management.
Okay, well, I might have somecontacts that I can help you out
with that.
Is that something that would beinteresting for you?
Because I want people to behere, to be high performers and
to enjoy what they're doing.
If that's not going to be you,then perhaps this isn't the best
role for you in thisorganization and they can come

(27:02):
to terms with.
You know what?
That's exactly right.
That's exactly what I need.
I don't need to be in thisconstruction business.
I need to be in the projectmanagement side of the business,
or I need to be in consultingor whatever it is, so you can
sometimes get it out of them ifthey kind of know they're not
the right fit.

Robby (27:16):
Yeah, I feel like most people will lack the awareness
to know.

George (27:21):
That's right and that's where you, as that leader, need
to either help them through thatprocess and say, well, does it
a matter of me?
Because, again, if I thinkyou're a good, you have the
potential to be good.
I'll happily refer you on topeople I know, because I know a
lot of project management people.
I know a lot of consultants,whatever they want to do.

Robby (27:38):
But yeah, I feel like there's people that lie to
themselves unconsciously.
Yes, like people that say Ilove, I love building.
It's like well, what do youlove?
Do you love bricks?
Do you love houses?
What do you love?
Like it doesn't make sense.
Like people say, do you lovemarketing?
I say no, who loves marketing?
How do you love marketing?

(27:58):
It's not a thing.
You know I what I love.
I love winning.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
I love putting somethingtogether and it works.
I love that.
I love knowing that this levelof success came from my doing.
Yeah, I love that, not thepressing the button, and the ad
goes live.

George (28:13):
Yes, yeah.

Robby (28:14):
Do you know what I mean?
Like I don't love, like youdon't, bricklayers don't love.
Like I know bricklayers wholove their job but they don't
love bricks.
Do you know what I mean?
It doesn't make sense and Ithink you find like a lot of
people will convince themselvesthat they love what they do.
Do you know what I mean?

George (28:36):
I also feel that a lot of people in the employee role
as well are fearful of losingtheir job too, and they don't
know anything else and they'recreatures of habit.
So they come in, go through themotions, do what they can do
just to be there and get youknow, cash in their check at the
end of the week, at the end ofthe month.
Yeah.
There's those people too.
Yeah, and that's something evenfrom day one when I first
started my business.

Robby (29:05):
I never wanted people at the business like that.
I never wanted the person tojust come in and clip the ticket
and then move on to the nextday.
Clip the ticket, move on to thenext day.
So how do you avoid that?
How do you avoid getting thosepeople it?

George (29:13):
really does start at the .
I reckon it starts at therecruiting stage.
Yeah, what's your recruitmentprocess?
You know when they say higherattitude and then because you
can teach talent, like that'sone of the things out there,
have you heard that same before?
Yeah, you can teach skill, Ican teach skill.
I can't teach attitude.
Yeah, I think you can teachattitude.

Robby (29:33):
Yeah Well, I like to hire skill.
He says attitude's a skill.
Yeah, it is, it's a skill.

George (29:39):
It's like it's a skill.
Teach it?
Yeah, so I like to.
When I'm looking at hiringsomeone now, I like to have a
look at what skills they bring,like what's their power?
Do you know what I mean?
What's your superpower?
What are you really good at?
Because if you're really goodat that thing and I need that
thing in my business, come in.
Oh, he's an arsehole.
I can teach him not to be.

(30:00):
The same way I can teach youhow to use a software to teach
you how to do things that'sdangerous.
Maybe not a complete arsehole.
You know what I mean.

Robby (30:07):
Maybe he's a bit abrupt, trying to teach a skill or an
attitude skill.

George (30:16):
But yeah, it's very slippery slope.
Let's just say he comes in andhe hates working with women and
I've got a PA at the front andhe walks in the office and every
morning he sees her.
He's looking down at her.
What the fuck are you doinghere?
That person's never going towork.
I can't teach you to stop beinglike that, but there are
certain things that I can teachand I look at attitude as a
skill now and I think that'shelped a lot in my decision

(30:37):
making and how I go about hiringpeople.
But not to say I don't look atthe attitude as well, because
that is important.
I'm just saying I value someone.
That's really good.
Yeah, I look at it, I try tolook at it kind of like a
football team like a sports team.
When you look at it like asports team, if I'm going to go

(30:57):
and play in a grand finalagainst the best team, am I
hiring juniors or am I hiringthe best talent that's out there
?
I want to hire some talent Ican send my message across.
It's not in a way that'saggressive or derogatory or

(31:26):
anything like that.
It's not authoritarian.
It's this is what we need to do, because this is what's the
best for the company, the team,and no one is above that.
No individual is above that.
And people buy in, and I thinkyou can tell within the first
few months anyway if people aregood or not or they're not.
The probationary period yeah,man, exactly right, I hired I

(31:48):
think I've spoken about thisbefore but I hired a PA and I
fired her in three weeks becauseshe came to me one Friday night
saying, or one Friday day,saying, hey, I just wanted to
have a chat with you.
It's the role I want to workfrom home a couple of days a
week or one day a week, and youknow, I clearly said that that's
this is not a work from homerole.
I need you here, I need youworking, I need you to commit it

(32:08):
and then a few other thingsthat she wanted that I never
agreed to.
That.
I never that.
I specifically said this iswhat the job entails.
And she's like oh, it's notwhat I wanted to do.
Can you change it up?
Can I do this, can I do that?
And then she told me that onFriday I said look again trying
to take responsibility.
I said let me think about it,let me see if that's within my

(32:29):
power to do I mean everything'swithin my power.
But if that's within the realmof me gifting you or giving you
and it doesn't affectperformance ability, what I'm
after in the role, I'll make ithappen.
I went home that night, Ithought about it that night, I
thought about it in the morningand at 10 am the next day she
didn't have a job.

(32:49):
I said don't come to work onMonday.
Thanks for your help.
Three weeks in, three and ahalf weeks in.
But then I hired someone elseand they were perfect, perfect
for the role, superstar in therole.
So for me I look at that and gowell, it was a blessing in
disguise, but it shows I couldhave very easily said oh fuck, I
need someone to do this.
Okay, just stay, I'll get youone day a week at home, you can

(33:10):
do this, you can do this, and soon and so forth.
But no, I didn't accept thatstandard.
I didn't want that in thebusiness and, as a result, I was
happy to let them go.
Now they kicked up a little fussas well.
I want this, I want this.
You need to give me a week'snotice, all that sort of stuff.
Yeah, cool, you will beentitled to everything in the
contract, nothing more, nothingless, that's it.
And they moved on.

(33:32):
And I was thinking I don't knowif I finished my story before,
but I had a few grief.
I'm like fire them.
I had this one guy and he'slike, oh, this guy's this, he's
this, he goes.
I think he might be stealing.
I can't prove it, but it'sobvious.
He was the only one there andnow those items are no longer

(33:53):
there All these things.
He just couldn't catch them byany hand and no camera is.
It was kind of just an obviousthing.
From what he told me, I go yeah, look, it sounds like he has.
You can't prove it, but itsounds like he has.
He was saying how I?

Robby (34:06):
feel like I've worked in a workplace where they've set up
someone to steal and thatperson's taken the bait.

George (34:12):
That's entrapment, isn't it.
Is that illegal?
Is entrapment illegal?

Robby (34:21):
Does anyone know?
And when I say anyone, iggy, isentrapment illegal?
When I say set them up, what Imean is put them in a position
where they knew they were goingto take advantage of the
situation and caught them.

George (34:29):
Yeah, it's like the people that put, like you know,
they steal the lunch out of thefridge, eat other people's lunch
, and then someone puts alaxative in the food to catch
the person that ate it.
They'll just send an email outto the person that ate my lunch
today, just so you know you'llbe on the toilet for the next
hour and a half.
Yeah, good luck.
Yeah, good luck.
I've never had any issues likethat.
No, never.
I think it's pretty weird.
If you're eating someone else'slunch, it's very weird, yeah.

(34:51):
So I mean it could be good food,who knows, crazy people out
there.
Back to what you're saying,back to what I was saying.
And this guy just needed to goand I was like, mate, everything
you've told me, you need to getoff this fucking phone call
with me, call him up, set up ameeting tonight, bring him in
and let him go.
He's no good.

(35:12):
He's no good Just based offthese things that you've told me
.
That's instant dismissal.
He did some things that he wastelling me.
I'm like, mate, no, youshouldn't be doing that in the
role.
That's not the right thing bythe company and he's done the
wrong thing.
He's told a client to fuck off,he's done whatever it was.
That's instant dismissal.

(35:32):
If one of my employees went offat my client, I would fire them
right there, and then I don'tgive a fuck.
You want to go to fair work?
Tell them to come here, firethem right there, and then I
didn't give a fuck.
You want to go to Fair Work?
Tell them to come here, callthem, give them my direct number
.
I'll tell them to get fuckedtoo, because if you're going to
do that to my business, that'sdetrimental to the organization.
Mate, you're gone.
You're gone Straight up.

(35:53):
But anyway, he didn't call himin, he didn't fire him for
another four months, five monthsof this shit.
And every mentee, every time Iwas talking to him, I'm like
have you fired him?
No, have you fired him?
No, they avoid conflict.
I don't know he needed him, youdon't need him, you don't need
anyone.
You don't need anyone.
Exactly, if he goes off, I getrid of him.

Robby (36:16):
Then, exactly, or fucking do it yourself, like, if you
have to, for a few weeks, for afew months, whatever it is,
they're the best experienceswhen they happen, Because it
breaks the belief of the I can't, I need, and then because what
ends up happening in most ofthose situations is they hold on
to the person for too long andthen the person quits.

George (36:39):
Yes, or it gets to a point, a boiling point, and then
they fire him.

Robby (36:43):
They do get rid of him, but I feel like most people
never pull the trigger and theperson's believing yeah, you
know what I mean.
And then they see that, oh,that person left anyway, caused
all this havoc for however longwe kept them here for longer
than they should have stayed,yep, and oh, we can survive
without them.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Oh, they left and the doors arestill open.
Yeah, do you know what I mean?
And it's like yeah, because youcan, that's right.

(37:05):
No, and if you've got abusiness that's heavily
dependent on one person, you'remaking a mistake.
It's like if your business isheavily dependent on one client
Do you know what I mean?
You're making a mistake.
Sure that, no matter whosomeone, anyone could drop dead
tomorrow, anyone.
You, as a director, could dropdead.
Your biggest client could dropdead.
Your number one employee coulddrop dead.

(37:28):
Like anything can happen.
By the way, did you see thatplane that flipped upside down?

George (37:32):
I saw something today, Random how the fuck did you go
from someone?

Robby (37:36):
oh, just people dying.
No one died doing that, by theway, but that's where my mind
went and it's all in.
People were dying.

George (37:40):
No one died doing that, by the way, but that's where my
mind went and it's all inAmerica where we're traveling in
a couple weeks time.
Fun, all these planes.
They're all fucking in America.
These days, everyone's all theplanes are like shitting
themselves.
Yeah, might swim.

Speaker 3 (37:52):
So entrapment is not a legal defense in Australia?
Okay, it's not a legal defense.
Yes.

Robby (37:59):
Oh, so you can't say this was entrapment?

Speaker 3 (38:02):
Oh, okay, exactly, yeah, so you can't say it was
entrapment?
Yeah, okay, but so in rarecases evidences obtained through
entrapment can be excluded ifthe police officer acted
illegally or improperly.
That's like for police officers.
Yeah, that's right, and theonly people that can actually

(38:22):
like use entrapment is lawenforcers, especially undercover
operations.
Okay, and causes a child todiscuss violent extremists and
terrorism, or something likethat but see, here's the thing,
right, you'd have to proveentrapment as well.

George (38:38):
I could just say no, no, the the office is under video
surveillance and I saw thisperson do it.

Robby (38:43):
Yeah, I just realised there's a camera in my office.

George (38:45):
There's cameras everywhere.
They work.
No, I mean yes Of course theywork.

Robby (38:52):
Of course they work.
I noticed it yesterday.
I was like is that camera beenhere the whole time?

George (38:56):
Yeah, so we were with that.
Yes, so he ended up firing himlike four or five months later
and I had another meeting withhim and he's like yeah there's
this, there's this.
I'm like, mate, what are youdoing?
Do you know what I mean?
I go look how, like if you hadlistened to me five months ago,
I go, you'd be feeling whatyou're feeling.
He's like, yeah, I know Ishould have fired.

(39:32):
It happened like three years ago, something like that as well,
and it was similar, similarscenario.
We're like, oh, I just need himto do this one thing, and you
said it best the other day.
It's like they do one reallygood thing and it's like, okay,
good, you know, if he gets allthe shit and that's what this
guy kept doing he would do fiveshit things and then do one
really good thing, like, okay,fuck, you know what you're doing

(39:52):
.
He was really he was actually areally good trades person.
Like no, he was veryknowledgeable.
He was one of the mostknowledgeable builders I've ever
met.
He knew shit that people haveforgotten.
He just knew it.
But when it came to execution,he was just so scattered.
He was a yes man.
He was like can you do this?
Absolutely, I can.
Can you do this?
Yes, I can, yes, I can.

(40:12):
And then he did nothing, orhe'd do 60% of everything and
never finish anything.
And then it ended up becomingan issue because it wasn't
finished.
Oh, and then he's like I'll godo 5% here and then run back
here, go do 5% there andmultitasking.
Multitasking is a myth, it'sbullshit.
Start a thing, finish a thing.
I got arguments with him onsite.
I'm like what the fuck are youdoing?
Stop it, finish this.

(40:34):
I don't want to know anythingelse, except when this is done
and then when I got rid of him,which wasn't too much longer,
too much further past the pointthat was it.
I was like, okay, good, good,just get someone else in to do
it.
Someone else knows how to fixthat.
He's not the only person on theplanet.

Robby (40:53):
Yeah, and then you work out that you can probably work
your way around any sort ofsituation.
Correct.
But another thing as well islike if you've you've got a role
and you've got a person inthere and that person is not
performing Personally, I'venever not performed in a role.
I've hated roles I've had butI've never been like, oh my God,

(41:15):
I'm going to get fired.
But I would imagine that.
Have you ever been fired?
No, yeah.
So I would imagine that.
Have you ever been in a fight?
No, yeah.
So I would imagine that ifthat's your case and you're
going in and you're panickedevery day, think about what
you're putting that personthrough.
You know what I mean.
They're going into work knowingthey're not performing, knowing
that they don't like their job,knowing that their boss
probably hates them because theoutput's not there.

(41:36):
You're making that person livein that state full time because
you don't have the courage tohave a conversation.

George (41:45):
That's a little bit uncomfortable that's a different
way to look at it, isn't it?
It's like, but very, very valid.

Robby (41:49):
Yeah, and you think you're a good person for keeping
them on?
No, you're not.
You're not a good person.
You're holding this person, youknow?
Yeah, it's not serving them.
It's not serving you.
It's like move them and they'reprobably gonna find their dream
job next yeah do you know whatI mean?
like, your thing is like, hey,this is not a place for you, but
I'm gonna free bird there yougo.
You know what I mean.
Let the bird fly and hopefullythey work their shit out.

(42:13):
But it's not only a problemanymore, but you holding them
there and making them feel likethere's a place for them when
there isn't, I think that's abig, big mistake and I always
look at it like that and think,okay, we're not serving this
person anymore.
This is no one's winning Doinga shit job.
We're holding you here Like.
You know what I mean yeahthat's right.
It's lose, lose, and I'm allabout win, win Collaboration

(42:36):
100%, so what would you do now?

George (42:38):
So, okay, we've been on the top.
Ultimately, what we're circlingaround is culture within your
organization.

Robby (42:44):
Yeah, I think culture is- .

George (42:46):
That's what it's all about, that and that's what
we're trying to get out ofeveryone.
How do we establish thatculture so that it's a place
where people enjoy coming?
Because ultimately, you'regoing to spend as an employee,
as a business owner, you'regoing to spend the majority of
your life at work.
Imagine hating going to workevery single day, and I'm sure
there's people listening to thisthat hate their fucking job.

(43:07):
Of course, I'm sure there'speople that listening to this
that do not enjoy going to workevery single day.
What a fucking disaster of alife to be living.
Oh, every day you hate it, youlive for the weekend you hate.
Most of your life you get toFriday afternoon and you're like
, how good is it the weekend,yeah.
And then you get to Sundaynight and you're like, fuck your
shit's broken Shit's broken.

Robby (43:33):
You're living most of your life in agony.
I guess that's a lie, you hate.

George (43:37):
You're like oh, I've got bills to pay, but why can't you
pay those bills doing somethingyou at least enjoy, or at least
get more enjoyment of you?
Don't borderline hate, oh, it'sall.
I know how to do.
That's a limiting belief.
Oh, you do, yeah, yeah, yeah,100%, 100%.

Robby (43:54):
They would claim that they like their role.
Like I was saying before, theyclaim that they would like their
role and it's like you can'tlike this, like not in the sense
of they're not, they're missingwhat they like out of it, like.
I'll give you an example.
I had a friend who does benchtops.
Yeah, I say friend, if helistens to this he'll know who

(44:18):
he is, if he's listening.
Anyway, he does bench tops Likedoes some cool work, I think
it's.
I worked with him at one pointin my life, like for like two
months or something.
I was in between jobs and Ithought it was the lowest job
ever, like the lowest.
I was like what is dude?
You're wet, you're dirty,you're carrying, breathing in
dust, you're going to getsilicosis, you work insane hours

(44:41):
and you carry this fucking likebench tops that weigh so much.
Dude, like it's.
This is not good for you in anyway, shape or form.
The glue smells like death.
Do you know what I mean?
Like everything about it is bad.
And he says that he loves it andhe'll finish.
And I've seen him like finish abench top and say, look at this
, bro, it's perfect and I get it.

(45:01):
You don't like bench tops.
You like completing shit.
You like the result yeah, doyou know what I mean?
You don't give a fuck aboutstone.
Yeah, you don't.
No one's born, it's marble.
Like he doesn't care about thestone.
But he doesn't understand thatwhat he likes is finished
product.
He would probably like making,become a panel waiter, for
example.
Same sort of thing.

(45:22):
You finish a coat of paint ohwow, look at that.
You know what I mean.
He likes that part.

George (45:27):
Yeah, and there's a true sense of accomplishment.

Robby (45:30):
Yeah, and I can resonate with that.
I like the feeling of finishingsomething.
Yeah, me too.

George (45:38):
I mean, that's what I do every day.
Ours goes for 12 months or morewhere you're working, working,
working and then one day youstep back and wow, there's a
house.
Look at this thing that we'reso proud of, that we're building
, that we've built that.
We've gone through the hardtimes, the good times, we've got
something we can stand back andthat we're proud of.
But the actual process ofbuilding is stressful Process,

(46:01):
like the timeframes, deadlines,money, budget, like there's so
many moving parts dealing withpeople.
As we said before, there's somany moving parts.
That's what I'm saying.
Like how can you?

Robby (46:05):
like like not to say that you hate what you do, but like,
how can you like the actualbuilding?
Like you like something thatyou get from it?
Yeah, not the.
If I said, okay, cool, just goand like people.
Another one is like videoediting.
Another one is, uh, like videoediting.

(46:27):
Like you like the finishedproduct?
Yeah, you like the.
I made this from this.
You know you like thecompletion part.
If I said, go edit this podcastevery single day, over and over
and over again, you'd be overit yeah because you'd be like
I'm not getting the satisfactionof seeing a finished product.

George (46:38):
Going back onto content like I'm, I'm similar, like I
often go out with iggy andyou're like okay, I need you to
do this, I need you to do this,I need you to throw this piece
of timber up, I need you toheadbutt the wall and I do these
things.
I don't like the process ofdoing that, okay, but the actual
filming aspect of it.
But when I see him put thatshit together, I'm like that is
sick.
How did you do that?

(46:58):
You zoomed in my ear and nowI'm on a phone and now I'm out
of space and now I've got abuilding coming out of the
ground.
How did you do that shit?
That's cool.
That gets me pumped up and Iwant to share it.
I want to tell my parents Ijust want to go to a random on
the street and go hey, look atthis.
He's like, don't touch me.

Robby (47:16):
Yeah, I what you actually like and the thing that you're
doing, and I think most peoplecan't do that and they'll
convince themselves I like thisjob.
I know like you know what Imean.
Yeah.
I've always wanted to be abuilder.
I've always wanted to.
You know, like people would sayoh man, I just love social

(47:36):
media and it's like you don't,bro.
What do you love about it?
Well, go, kiss Zuckerberg ifyou love it so much it doesn't
make any sense.
I just love it.

George (47:48):
It's like you lack awareness.
My friend, come here, listen tothis, come here, press that red
button and subscribe, becauseif you do that, you get some
awareness.

Robby (47:59):
Last time you said to the people, if you subscribe or,
sorry, if you send one of us aDM, you'll get a hat.
And we did that and someone didI got a photo of them wearing a
hat.

George (48:16):
Oh, you didn't send it to me.
I'll show you.
Right now I'm pumped.
You get to see this live or seeit live on YouTube if you're
watching.

Robby (48:25):
I don't know if we'll show the photo on the camera for
privacy reasons.

George (48:30):
Nah, come on Presenting you a photo.
Let me find it.
You'll want to be plasteredeverywhere and shout out to you
Well done, hope you're wearingyour hat every day.
Quality hats, hats, by the way,good hats.

Robby (48:43):
Well done um, are you telling me?

George (48:46):
yeah, I wear mine all the time.
You're welcome not wearing ittoday, but I wear it all the
time.

Robby (48:52):
I don't know where they sent it to me, okay anyway, we
got a photo somewhere, we'll putit in the show notes.
Yeah, we'll put it in the shownotes.

George (49:00):
Yeah, we'll do that, uh, but I think we should do
something like that again yeah,do a um, incentivize people for
taking action, because, hey, man, when you take action you get
the.
You get the reward.
That's what so many people um,it's, it's such a simple concept
, isn't it such a simple concepttake the action and you'll get

(49:21):
the reward.
But so many people lack thataction in anything in any aspect
.
Right, like, maybe the actionis if we're talking about
culture, we'll take the actionand do a team building exercise,
invest in some training.

Robby (49:33):
Yeah, build out your purpose mission your leadership.

George (49:37):
Yeah, that's right.
All this sort of stuff Liketake that action and then you'll
get the reward of an amazingteam that wants to work Do you
have?

Robby (49:45):
company values and mission, vision.

George (49:47):
I've got mission and vision.
I haven't got company values.
I was actually going to do atraining course on that with
someone we both know.
I was going to get them to comehere and actually build the
company values, and this is whatI liked about the concept is,
it wasn't me putting the companyvalues in, it wasn't George
saying these are the companyvalues everyone buy in.
You need to be accountable, buyin.

(50:09):
Are you accountable?
Do you feel pumped about beingaccountable?
I don't think it works likethat.
I was going to get this personto come into the business and
sit here for a day or so,whatever it is, and as a team
they come up with the companyvalues and then that way, I feel
they'll have more buy-in whenthey see the company values up
on the wall on a constructionsite going you know what?

(50:31):
That was my value or that'ssomething I really resonate with
.
And I look at that and I'm like, yes, I love that.
I'm going to wake up everymorning and be that, but so okay
there's a catch-22 there,because what about the new hire?

Robby (50:44):
Yeah, correct To add a value, correct.

George (50:45):
But if you've got the whole team buy-in, I think it's
a lot easier to then get thatperson on board with those
values too.
But also, is it their company?
Is it their company?
No, it's not.
Like, oh, we'll obviously havethe overriding disease.
Like if someone says one oftheir core values is, you know,
being silly, sadness, exactly, Ijust want to come in and just
be sad Negative.

(51:05):
Yeah, greed, yeah, perfect,perfect example.
Like greed, that's a companyvalue, george.
Yeah, I want it.
I want more money.
I want more computer screens.
I want more everything,everything, everything,
everything.
More coffee in the morning.
Just give me more of everythingin abundance.

Robby (51:21):
My desk not facing the wall, that's right.

George (51:23):
Everything.
Yeah, I'd be like cool.
Is that really in line with thecompany values?

Robby (51:29):
No, it's not.
Interestingly, you say that Iget the concept of them buying
in, and I'm a big believer ofwhen I set goals with team.
I get them to pick their goals,because then they can't turn
around and say I couldn't dothat.
I'll say, well, did you pick it?
Do you know what I mean?
You picked it.
And if you pick it and you haveto get it like you're more
likely to achieve it, I willinfluence them.

(51:49):
You know, like if they picksomething too small, I'll be
like come on, do you know what Imean?
And if they pick and I thinkthey're tripping, they're like
come on, come on, yeah.
So I kind of influence them.
But I get them to make thedecision.
Yeah, and with this I think Ithink you, yeah, I don't know it

(52:14):
goes two ways.
Like if you had a board, Iwould understand, but I think
your team and your board are notthe same people.
No, do you know what I mean?
Like I think, but getting yourboard to buy in, like board
members, um, I would say, okay,that's cool, you know Cause then
it's like these are essentiallypeople at the highest level in

(52:37):
the business, but team, I thinkthey need to be led.

George (52:44):
Yes, I completely agree with that.
I would say that most of thebusinesses, though these days
small businesses they don't havea board.
Yeah, they don't have a board.
So it's either you make thatdecision to do the values
yourself and get some.
I think maybe not buy-in, butinput is important too.
Why not have them buy into this?
I don't see the disadvantage toit, because they're the ones

(53:05):
working within the organizationand the intent is for them to be
there for a long time.
Even though you're temporarycustodians of your role at the
business and one day you willnot be here, the intent is I
still want you to be here for 5,10, 20 years.

Robby (53:21):
Yeah, okay.
So then if you see that, flipit the other way around.
So what about the new hire?

George (53:28):
When you have the whole team that's bought into these
values, I think they can comeinto it and understand what the
business is about.
Why not discuss your businessvalues during the job interview?
I do, yeah, but that's what Imean.
When you can do that and thenthey go okay, wow, this is
definitely somewhere that Icould see myself working.
If your value is greed and I'mcoming in and I'm interviewing a

(53:52):
greedy, I'm like oh well, thenyou'll fit in.
This is great.
I want you to rob everyone andtake every cent you can and do
what you've got to do to make abuck.
Nothing is unethical, that's it.
Go for it.
No ethics here?
That's it.
So I think in that case, on anew hire, it'd be important from
day one, literally the firstinterview.
Cool, I just want to run youthrough a few of our business

(54:13):
values.
Tell me what you think aboutthese, honestly.
Tell me what you think aboutthese, because this is what
everyone at this organization isabout.
It's something that I feel verystrongly about and I want to
know what you think and be likecool, this, this, this, this.
Maybe you throw greed in there,just to see if they're going to
say, yeah, I love greed.

Robby (54:35):
Just to see if they're talking shit or they're actually
being genuine.
Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
I don't know if that's how I'dgo about it.
Cool, maybe because your guyshave been around longer.

George (54:43):
It's probably that.
It's probably a little bit ofthat.
My team's been together forquite a while now.
We've got a couple of new hires.
When I say new six to 12 months, all right, but I think the
team as a whole has beentogether for quite a while, so
it's something that I'm happyfor them to have some input in.

Robby (54:59):
Yeah, that can be a good thing and a bad thing.

George (55:02):
It could be, but ultimately it'll rest on me.
So they might come togetherwith 15 values and I go cool,
these are the five that we'reusing.
You know yeah, and then take itfrom there.

Robby (55:12):
Are you going to do it?

George (55:16):
I want to.
Yeah, I wanted to do it earlierthis year but it's just been so
hectic.
But I will do it at some stagethis year, I believe, with your
team, yeah, and then look, hey,it may not work, but you know
what else doesn't work?
Doing fucking nothing Give.
So at least I give that a go andsay, okay, this works really
well.
Or maybe I get the teamtogether.
I'm like, nah, this guy justwanted greed on there, he just

(55:37):
wanted this, he just wanted that, everyone wanted greed.
I'm like, no, guys, we're notdoing that.

Robby (55:48):
So maybe it doesn't work.
Well, there you go.
If you've taken anything fromthis episode, it's get your shit
together and learn how torecruit and look after your team
and get your company valueslaid out.

George (56:01):
Yeah, it's not just pizza on a Friday night,
although that can be great.
Everyone comes to the office at2.30 on a Friday.
We'll have some drinks, we'llhave some chips, we'll have some
food, we'll talk some shit.
I like that.
I like it too, but I like that.
I like it too.
I like the concept of but a lotof people just go here this is
You've been working 60-hourweeks.
Here's a pizza.
It's not it's going to get to apoint where I'm like, man, I
just want to go home.
I don't want to eat yourfucking pizza.

Robby (56:31):
But, as I said, it can be good too If you've got a bunch.
Some people are going to wantto come in, do their work and go
home, and that's okay.
It's fine If they're good attheir role and they're not
disrupting anyone, correct?

George (56:42):
I actually had a girl work for me years ago.
That was like that she was veryquiet, lovely girl, and she
would come in, do her work, thengo home and she was very
competent, she wasn't bad.
But she got to a point where umno, it didn't, get to a point
she actually ended up quittingbecause she wanted to.

(57:02):
She found another role and thiswas during the covid years as
well, so it was kind ofrestrictive in as far as where I
was doing everything like me.
Just there were no room forpromotion.
At that time, like during thecovid years, I didn't promote
anyone at all.
But also I never got rid ofanyone either, never got rid of
anyone, never reduced hours, butI didn't then go oh, here's an

(57:23):
extra 10 grand.
So I think she just foundanother opportunity that she
went to and I think it wasbetter suited for her and what
she was doing and what we'reabout in the business.
But yeah, she was very muchlike that just wanted to come in
, do the work and really good atit and then move on yeah, I
don't reckon there's anythingwrong with those people, do
neither I think.
Um, you don't have to hangaround and have pizza if you

(57:44):
don't like hanging around and itwasn't more that it was more
that she was just head down,head down, bum up, just working
yeah, she's looking for a job.

Robby (57:56):
What's wrong with that?
I can't be around for thatnothing.

George (57:58):
Yeah, do the work, yeah see her values would be very
different from some of the othermore bolder personalities in
the business.
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah, like excitement.
You know ambition.
And she'd be like, oh, I justdon't talk to me.
Calm, quiet.
Yeah, calmness, you knowambition.
And she'd be like, oh, I justdon't talk to me.

Robby (58:20):
Calmness, yeah, calmness, stillness, zen feng shui, I
think that's going to be aninteresting exercise.
Yeah, me too, me too, me too.
I'd love to hear how it goes.

Speaker 3 (58:28):
You know what?

Robby (58:28):
else I'd love, what I'd love, if people hit that
subscribe button.

George (58:34):
How much?

Robby (58:35):
would you love it?
What if?

George (58:35):
tomorrow.
You woke up and you texted melike 300 new subscribers right
now.

Robby (58:43):
I wouldn't know how to deal with it.
We get 10 comments on a YouTubevideo and I call you.
It's blowing up.
It's blowing up, we're goingviral, going viral, it's funny.
Call Mr Beast, tell him webroke the code as well.
I don't know.
Is there anything we can do forthe people that are listening?
I think we do enough, hey.

(59:04):
I think we do enough, yeah, butyou can always do more.

George (59:07):
You can always do more.
The reason I say it, it's likeokay, put it this way.
I'm not going to.
Just you want to subscribe,subscribe.
You don't want to subscribe?
Don't fucking subscribe, I'mnot going to go.
Oh, you take a hat every singleweek.
Have a Mars bar, have this,have this.
We want you to subscribebecause we know of the benefits
that it will have to you andyour business and your life.
The two things we've sent out Ahat and a Mars bar.

Robby (59:27):
That's exactly the two things.

George (59:36):
Exactly Over the course of 73, 74 episodes.
A Mars bar and a hat, but, but,but.
But.
We want you to subscribebecause we know of the positive
benefit that this podcast willhave on your business and your
life and the more people thatsubscribe, the more people we
can reach to help in theirbusiness and their life.

Robby (59:51):
Yeah, so you need to share this.
What do we have to do for youto share this?
You know what I mean.
What do you have to do?
What do you have to take awayfrom this episode, from
everything that we've ever andif you haven't listened from
episode one, go listen toepisode one.
There's some absolute bombsthat we've dropped over the last
18 months, some really goodstuff, and we'll continue to

(01:00:11):
bring every single time.
Now we've got a dedicatedstudio.
If you're not watching this onYouTube, get on YouTube, get on.

George (01:00:16):
YouTube.
Check out the studio.
It is dedicated and kudos toyou.
Well done, mr Robert Me yes,for what?
Well, just sticking it outenjoying the conversations.
It's something to be celebrated, because day one was in my old
office, in a boardroom.
We had to set up the podcastequipment, the cameras, each and

(01:00:37):
every week.
Now we've got the tripods inthe corner, everything's doing
itself.
The mics are here.
We've got a nice neon sign,because it was never a real
podcast without a neon sign.
Thanks to my lovely wife forthe Christmas present.
Even though it doesn't changecolors, it's okay.
We've gotten over that.
We've had a discussion.
We've gone to therapy.
We're happy with the white andthe black background.

(01:00:59):
You've decided.
Robbie came in on the weekendand sprayed all these wires
black, so the contrast looksfantastic now.
But we've come a long way.
We've come a long way fromearly days of let's just start a
podcast to now having adedicated room in our office in
our brand new office.

Robby (01:01:18):
It's also been small iterations.
Yeah.
Do you know what I mean?
Like it was like okay, cool,let's do this.
Okay cool, let's do that.
Hey, we should probably havesomething to talk about.
Hey, let's do this at the startof the episode.
Hey, let's start doing this now.
Hey, do this with the mic.
Hey, don't put the thing upsidedown.
Hey, let's get a neon sign.
Hey, let's move to this office.
Hey, let's get three angles.
Hey, get this camera.
You know what I mean.
It's been a journey.

George (01:01:37):
You were trying different things each and every
time and you're going to need todo that in your business, to
try different things each time.
Like we're saying now I'm goingto have the teams buy, well,
maybe it doesn't, maybe I'llwalk away going.
How good was that?
I've got my set business values, even though I know in my own
head what I want the business tobe representing.

(01:01:59):
We've got a whole bunch of setbusiness values that everyone
can look at and everyone cantalk about and we can implement
and now live and breathe it.
Or we turn around and say, look,that exercise cost me five
grand, didn't work out.
I'm going to do it this way andthen that way takes off and
then that way works.
You need to try things.

(01:02:20):
You need to take some risks inyour business.
You need to take some risks inyour life, because that is how
you're going to get ahead whenyou do the same shit that
everyone else does.
Because I guarantee you, I'vehad rooms full of mentees, of 20
, 30 close people who are beingtrained by me.
I go around the room with everysingle one of them.
How many of them do you reckonhave their business values?

Robby (01:02:43):
I've done this with a room full of people.
No one, no one, yeah, no one,yeah.
It is zero.
And for those of you who havedone it, I reckon it would be a
very small.
So it'd be a small percentagewho have done it, yep, and then
it would be an even smallerpercentage who can recite it.

George (01:02:58):
And maintain it.

Robby (01:02:59):
Yeah, that's right.
It's like what are your valuesLike?
Oh, one sec, and I've done that.
I've done that too.
Yeah, do you know what I mean?
And one sec, let me find myGoogle Doc got to move them down
somewhere, that's right.

George (01:03:11):
So there's no buy-in, even by you.
How are you?

Robby (01:03:13):
going to get that with your team?
You're not convinced.
You don't think it's a genuineset of principles to live by in
your business or to operate byWithout a doubt, without a doubt
.

George (01:03:25):
Yeah, so take those risks in your business, because
they will pay off.
They will pay off.
I mean, you did it with.
We do it at every event,actually Every event we have at
some stage.
Throughout that event, you putyour hand up.
You tell people to put theirhand up if they are running ads,
and it's always, always, always, always.
Less than 5% of the room willput their hand up, and you're

(01:03:46):
cool.
Well done for running ads, keepyour hand up.
If you're spending five grand amonth, they all go down, and
it's like that's the game, andthat's not even a lot.
Do you know what I mean?
That's not even a lot of money,in the grand scheme of things,
of what you could be doing andcould be paying.
You're spending $5,000 a month,60 grand a year, and what if

(01:04:10):
that $60,000 got you 10 projects, which netted you three four000
, $400,000, $500,000?
.
That's the game, though, but noone plays it.
Why?
It's because they don't takerisk, because this is how we've
always done it.
I'm a referral-based businessSome this, some this, some this.
Okay, keep being that.

Robby (01:04:29):
I saw this thing the other day, this video, and the
guy said thing the other day,this video.
And the guy said what's thedifference between six and seven
figure businesses and eightfigure businesses?
He goes.
I'll tell you what the maindifference is.
Eight figure businesses haveworked out how to turn cold
traffic into paid customers.
Yes, so true.
Yeah, he's like everyone else.
You're all banking on yourreferrals.

(01:04:50):
He goes, and that's great hegoes.
Referrals he goes, and that'sgreat he goes.
But it's only going to get youso far.
Yeah, you want to become youknow what I mean Like the big
businesses and like, say, dude,look at, like the apples of the
world.
I'm going to share this on the.
This will come out after theevent, but I'm going to share
this at the event.
And Google spent $40 million tohave an ad play at the
Superbowl.

(01:05:10):
It's $8 million for every 30seconds at a two and a half
minute ad.
Google, is there anyone youknow that doesn't know?
The brand yeah.
Anyone.
Do you think they just got 40mil where they're like, hey,
what do we do with this 40 mil?
Buy an ad?
No, it's strategic?
Well, they kind of do, yeah,but they've got the money there.
Of course they've got the moneythere, but they don't have to

(01:05:33):
spend it on that.
They obviously understand thegame.
They understand the game, twoand a half minutes Most
expensive ad in the world.

George (01:05:43):
I think Most eyeballs on the TV at that time.
Everyone like man.
I would tune into the halftimeshow and the ads more than I
would the game Honestly.

Robby (01:05:52):
Yeah, and you've got to ask yourself what do they know
that I?

George (01:05:55):
don't Go and Google Super Bowl, the 2025 Super Bowl
ads and I guarantee you onYouTube it'll have hundreds of
millions of views.
I've watched it Sick, but Imean the views on it, so
people's eyeballs.
It's not just the actual liveevent going on.
It's what happens followinggetting the 200 million views on
YouTube, because people arewatching that Doritos ad,

(01:06:15):
they're watching the Google ad,they're watching the fucking
Chrysler ad, jeep ad yeah,whatever it is.
Yeah.
Sugar ads yeah, but they'requirky, they're funny, they're
like people, they'reentertaining.
They're entertaining.
Oh cool, I want some Doritos.

Robby (01:06:28):
Yeah, but you got to ask and say what do they know that I
don't?
How do they understand how toplay this game for level, and
I'm not, yeah, and if you don'tknow, go and find people that do
.

George (01:06:39):
Yeah, that's what it comes down to and that's why
we're going to the States in acouple of weeks.
We're going there to speak tosomeone who knows the things
that we don't and to find outhow he went.
And for those of you that areasking or thinking or don't know
who we're talking about, we'regoing to go see Alex Hormozy in
Las Vegas, and also GrantCardone as well.
We're going to have dinner witheach of them, have a chat,

(01:07:03):
catch up on the good times, butwe're going there spending a
decent amount of time and moneyaway from our family, away from
our business, away from ourfriends, and to invest that in
ourselves.

Robby (01:07:15):
Yeah, and we'll make sure we let you know how it goes.

George (01:07:19):
We'll tell you everything, everything.

Robby (01:07:21):
But the only way for us to tell you Well, we'll tell you
, but the only way to make sureyou hear it.

George (01:07:28):
Is if you subscribe.

Robby (01:07:30):
That was a long loop.
Subscribe, that's what we'regood at Ridiculous.

George (01:07:35):
All right, Thank you so much for tuning in.
Guys.
Cannot wait till next week.
Until then, I hope you'rehaving a million dollar day.

Robby (01:07:45):
Bye, everybody, see ya.