February 7, 2022 • 30 mins
Show Notes & Resources
“One individual can really affect change and the best version of the world starts with the best version of ourselves,” shares Shelly Tygielski. As founder the global mutual aid organization called Pandemic of Love, she has connected more than 2 million individuals in need with people who can provide resources. Tygielski discusses the power of radical self-care and community with Host Greg Muzzillo. She also shares insights from her book, Sit Down to Rise Up, on ways to achieve our own mind, body, and emotional balance.
Chapter Summaries
- 0:40 - Introducing Shelly
- 1:55 - Rise Up
- 6:22 - Radical Self-Care
- 10:45 - Toxic Positivity
- 15:55 - Communities of Care
- 19:30 - Mutual Aid
- 23:10 - Rising Tide Lifts All Ships
- 27:55 - Our Purpose is to Love
Key Takeaways:
- Sense of agency is really just the ability to be reflective and have awareness and be introspective about how our actions can actually affect other people and affect the world.
- The best version of the world starts with the best version of ourselves.
- When we look at what self-care is now on the internet, or we search up on Instagram, the hashtag self-care, the things that come up really don't qualify as self-care, because the term has been hijacked by the industrial wellness complex. So we associate self-care with things that cost money, right? Like, bath bombs or green juices or a Peloton. And it's not that those things can't contribute to your health, et cetera, but really that's not what self-care is.
- So when I talk about self-care, I'm really talking about communal care. I'm talking about how do we intricately weave these webs of safety nets for each other, and then in a radical way, take on the moral obligation to take care of one another.
- When a rising tide lifts all ships and that's the idea is that we all can contribute to that rising tide, all of our ships rise.
- Our purpose really is to love, to not only love, but to allow others to love us.
- The most powerful words a salesperson can say, although you never say it quite this way, is I have a problem and I need your help.
Resource Links
Book: Sit Down to Rise Up: How Radical Self-Care Can Change the World
Linked In
Instagram
Twitter
Shelly's Facebook
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Greg Muzzillo (00:06):
Hello, and welcome to Million Dollar
Monday.
I'm your host, Greg.
Muzzillo bringing you realsuccessful people with real
useful advice for people withbig dreams.
I understand and big dreams.
I turned an investment of$200and a lot of great advice from
some really successful peopleinto my big dream Proforma.
(00:31):
That today is a half billiondollar company.
Well, hello and welcome.
Today I have a very interestingand exciting guest with an
important message.
She is a self care activist andfounder of the global mutual aid
(00:55):
organization.
Pandemic of love her work hasbeen featured by over a hundred
news outlets, including CBS ThisMorning and the New York Times.
She is a mindfulness teacher andhas been named one of the 12
most powerful women in themindfulness movement by
mindful.org.
Thank you for joining me, ShellyTygielski.
Shelly Tygielski (01:17):
Thank you so much, Greg, for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Greg Muzzillo (01:21):
I loved your book.
Can I appreciate you sharing itwith me?
Great stuff here and, of courseshowing up, for ourselves and
for others is what life reallyneeds to be about and sitting
down to rise up.
That's gonna make a lot ofsense.
And then the subtitle of courseis called, how radical self care
(01:43):
can change our world.
And we're going to get to thatin a minute, but f irst Shelly,
tell us a little bit about yourgrowing up years and some other
life experiences that led you towrite the book.
Shelly Tygielski (01:56):
Wow.
I mean, that's really the wholesection of the first part of the
book, its loaded question, but,I guess, you know, in brief I,
grew up, I was born in Israel,to a, very traditional Sephardic
Jewish family, r eally was forall intents and purposes when I
(02:19):
moved here to the u sconsidered, to be an Orthodox
Jew.
And, you know, so I had grown upwith contemplative practices,
but, eventually sort of, movedaway from, from the traditional
and found, different modalitiesto lean into in terms of how to,
(02:40):
just be more spiritual and,really lean into, the inner
work.
one of the stories that I opened the book with is a story
about how I was kidnapped when Iwas two years old my mother.
Greg Muzzillo (02:54):
Crazy story By the way, crazy, story.
Shelly Tygielski (02:55):
Totally.
It is a crazy story, but itreally seeded and informed a lot
of the work that I do today.
Interestingly enough.
Right.
So, the story, the short versionof the story is my mother, newly
immigrated here to the UnitedStates.
Barely speaking a word ofEnglish.
(03:16):
I was two years old.
She was getting her, ID or herlicense from the DMV in Brooklyn
was doing her eye exam and I wastaken, and a woman who I
describe as a good Samaritan wassitting in the waiting room,
when this happened and saw mebeing carried out by somebody
(03:37):
who was not who I came in with.
And in that moment, this womanhad three choices to make.
She could have done nothing,which is an active choice.
She could have gone to find mymother, which seems like a safer
choice.
And, the third, choice, which isthe riskiest and ultimately what
she wound up doing, which couldbe argued, saved my life or,
(04:01):
definitely saved me fromwhatever fate, you know, was
going to befall me, was to, justrise up and, follow these
individuals, several city blocksand see where they were heading
so that she could go back to theDMV at that point where all hell
had broken loose and leteverybody know, you know, where
(04:24):
I was.
And so, you know, it'sinteresting because the story
had been told many timesthroughout my life.
And, the focus was always onhaving empathy, of course, for
my mother, like, oh, I can'tbelieve that you went through
that.
It's a horrible, right.
And of course for me, becausepeople, you know, already
(04:46):
assumed that I had, traumaassociated with, this incident,
which by the way, I have norecollection of it.
I was two years old and just,you know, have done regressive
therapy before.
And I, there doesn't seem to beany trauma there what
whatsoever, but, the, the pointof the matter is, is that, you
know, it was very interesting tome because very few people, when
(05:07):
we told the story focused onthis courageous and bold act of
this woman who had agency asense of agency, right, we all
have God given free, will we allhave, you know, agency, but very
few of us really understand thesense, what a sense of agency
is, which was really just theability to be reflective and
(05:29):
have awareness and beintrospective about how our
actions can actually affectother people and affect the
world.
And so that woman, and that actactually later on wound up
really fueling within me, theneed to, grab a hold of my sense
of agency, grab those reigns andunderstand how interconnected, I
(05:54):
am to, all sentient beings onthis planet and how I, as one
individual, can really affectchange in the world and the
through line of the book really,and of my life, I think is that
the, the best version of theworld starts with the best
version of, you know, ourselves.
Greg Muzzillo (06:12):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So a happy ending, butnonetheless, a wonderful life
lesson.
So the book, sit down to rise uphow radical self care can change
the world.
What is radical self care?
Shelly Tygielski (06:31):
Radical Self care is basically, a reclamation
of what self care was initiallywhen the movement of self-care
started, which was born in, andis rooted in feminism and the
civil rights movement.
Self-care, you know, for manypeople, not just back then, but
(06:51):
also today is rooted insurvival.
And I think that, you know, whenwe look at what self-care is now
on the, internet, or we searchup on Instagram, the hashtag
self-care the things that comeup, really don't qualify as
self-care, because the term hasbeen hijacked by the industrial
(07:13):
wellness complex.
So we associate a self-care withthings that cost money, right?
Like, bath bombs or green juicesor a Peloton, or what have you.
And it's not that those thingscan't help contribute to your
health, et cetera, but reallythat's not what selfcare is so
radical self care essentially isthis reclamation that self care
(07:33):
is about having and making surethat our basic needs are met and
the basic needs of thoseindividuals in our community are
also met that every person inour community has enough.
And that's how I describe it inthe book.
And when we talk about the termself care, this is a really
important kind of distinctionthat I make of the book is that
(07:56):
self is not the I the individualthat just like lives in this
body, right.
The self extends far beyond thatthe self extends to in not in a
'woo woo' way, but just, youknow, in terms of like our
impact on the world, right?
Sometimes just a word, a kindword, or an action can have far
(08:17):
reaching effects and actuallychanges the course of somebody's
life and creates these rippleeffects that extend far beyond
this body right here.
When we talk about the I or theself, so when I talk about
self-care, I'm really talkingabout communal care, I'm talking
about how do we intricatelyweave these webs of, you know,
(08:41):
safety nets for each other, andthen in a radical way, take on
the, uh, moral obligation totake care of one another.
Greg Muzzillo (08:52):
But like you say, in the book, um, it starts
showing up, starts withourselves first, almost like,
you know, that announcement onthe, when you're taking off on
an airplane, says, you know, ifthat mask falls down first take
care of yourself so that you cantake care of your child or
whatever, I think your book kindof tells that same story for us
to have the maximum impact oneach other.
(09:15):
We have to, first of all, makemaximum impact on ourselves.
Shelly Tygielski (09:18):
We do.
But I do wanna say that, youknow, while yes, we have to take
care of ourselves first to takecare of others.
We need others oftentimes to beable to take care of ourselves
in the right way.
Yeah.
And I think that many of usthink like, I'm gonna go at it
alone, or I should ask for help.
Greg Muzzillo (09:37):
Right.
No.
Yeah.
That's a great point.
Shelly Tygielski (09:38):
We have obstacles in our way and we need
others to help us remove thoseobstacles.
Greg Muzzillo (09:44):
That's a great point.
You know, sometimes when I eventhink about it, and even when I
read the words, it was morelike, okay, me, myself, and I
have to make sure I'm okay,first then I can go take care of
the world.
And it's not that way.
You're right.
I mean, there are so many otherpeople in our world and in our
lives, who all are part of theprocess of are being okay.
You know, I like how you saythat the book is for those
(10:06):
people who have found themselvescompletely lost.
But I think if people werehonest, everybody's been
completely lost at at least onetime in the, their life.
Right?
Shelly Tygielski (10:17):
Yeah.
Well, I think so.
I think that's really I wouldsay that multiple times in our
life, we almost have to yes.
In order to find ourselves, wehave to get lost or, be lost.
Greg Muzzillo (10:30):
Right.
So your book kind, kind of takesa turn away from finding happy,
finding joy.
And it's really about not aimingat happiness.
Talk to us a little bit aboutnot aiming at happiness.
Shelly Tygielski (10:46):
Yeah.
So I think that, you know,similar to this hijacking of,
the term self care, in our worldtoday, I think this, notion that
we need to be positive and happyall the time and that, you know,
there's this, kind of feeling ofoh, good vibes only, you know,
and that's totally not realisticand, and really leads to toxic
(11:10):
positivity.
It leads us with this notionthat there are good emotions and
that there are bad emotions.
And the reality is is that theiremotions are neither good, nor
bad.
They just are.
And that if we can learn toreally lean into the entire
human experience and be willingto actually sit with discomfort
(11:31):
right.
And, and have, uncomfortableconversations and really sense,
all of it that comes with beinghuman, then I think we are able
to really be present andself-aware, and, actually, show
up in a fuller way.
Yeah.
You know, show up in a way thatthe quality of the way that we
(11:54):
show up is completely differentand really more genuine.
Greg Muzzillo (12:00):
Yeah.
Well, beyond the, Hey, how areyou?
I'm okay.
How are you doing I'm okay.
All right.
Yeah.
I love the line in your book.
Validation is for parking, talkto us about validation and,
what's that all about?
Shelly Tygielski (12:18):
Well, I talk in the book a lot about my own
personal afflictions and issueswith self-worth and imposter
syndrome, which I know a lot ofpeople can relate to, especially
people who are successful inbusiness and so forth, you know,
you kind feel like, you know, atany point in time, sort of the
sales can be, the wind can betaken out of your sales or, you
(12:40):
know, how is this even reallyhappening?
And you're kind of scared, youknow, that, that you're going to
lose it all.
And so, you know, I talk a lotabout this, drive to sort of
this pursuit of excellence thatI had since I was a little girl
and how it was really fueled bythe need to be validated the
need to feel like I am enoughand that I am good enough and
(13:02):
that I'm worthy.
And how I never really got therethrough the accumulation of
pedigree or awards or accoladesor anything, you know?
And, and so you end up a greatjob as a CEO, which is where I
ended up, you know, you end upwith, with, with a great
paycheck, you end up with a lotof stuff with a lot of, you know
(13:25):
, material things andobligations and
responsibilities.
Yeah.
But you don't per se end up anyhappier.
You don't end up feeling any,more worthy than you did at the
beginning.
And so it, what it really meansthat sentence is like, listen,
you know, the need forvalidation is not, um, something
(13:51):
that humans need to focus on.
If we wanna focus on presenceand happiness and self-awareness
et cetera.
And so, you know, that that'skind of my plea.
And so I thought about that andI thought, in that moment, I
think, I feel like I wasprobably sitting like in a valet
line, like waiting for my ticketto be validated when I came up
(14:13):
with that term, It was because Ilove it.
Like you, Hey, do you need yourticket validated?
And I was like, yes I do, but Ido not need to be validated.
Yeah.
Greg Muzzillo (14:22):
However, and I can only speak for myself.
I think that a lot of damage canbe done to young souls, young
people by parents, unwittingly,surely not purposely trying to
hurt their child and teachers.
Yeah.
And so at a young age, somepeople can get negative labels
(14:43):
that are really sticky labelsand sure.
And we, you know, we have to dosome work to get rid of those
labels and know that know that'snot me.
That might have been yourperception of me.
That's not me.
And I can move beyond that.
I'm okay.
Shelly Tygielski (15:00):
Yeah.
Right.
Absolutely.
I think that we also tend tosometimes though assign, because
we tend to be our own worstcritics too.
So we also assign labels toourselves.
It's so interesting because youknow, obviously through social
media, you wind up connectingwith people that you knew in
high school that you like losttouch with or from grade school
or what have you.
(15:20):
And there were so many peoplethat I reconnected with that
were like, I remember the wayyou were in, you know, in middle
school.
And, and they had this wholeother view, or lens of myself
and it's the exact opposite ofhow I viewed myself during those
years, you know?
And I'm like, God, if I onlyknew that that's how people
(15:41):
viewed me.
I was, I was my own worst, youknow, worst critic.
That's a great, I was the onethat, that actually you, know's
a negative self talker and, anddidn't think, and going back to
the chance of unworthiness, youknow?
Greg Muzzillo (15:55):
Right.
So through all of that, you getto talking about communities of
care, such a beautiful phrase.
What does that look like?
What's that all about?
Shelly Tygielski (16:06):
So I talk about it in the book as
something that I think is prettyrelatable.
All of us had at one point oranother, whether it was a
grandparent or a parent or afamily member who used to
nostalgically paint this picturefor us of this magical time
period called back in the day,right.
Back in the day when we werekids, everybody knew everybody's
(16:28):
business.
Everybody knew their neighbors.
We knew, we didn't just knowtheir, we knew what was going on
in their lives.
And we took responsibility forthese individuals so that if
somebody lost their job, theynever had to worry that there
wouldn't be a roof over theirhead, you know?
And, and, and we would all, as acommunity, help them find a job.
If somebody lost a parent, we,the whole village would take
(16:52):
care of those children.
And if somebody, you know, andso on.
And so I, we've obviously lostthat along the way as we moved
into suburbia, as we becameindustrialized.
And certainly with the advent oftechnology, which in many ways
connects us, but in many waysalso superficially connects us.
Right?
Those, those real connectionsare gone.
(17:13):
We don't really know ourneighbors anymore.
We may know that don't theirname.
You know, we may wave, we mayknow they just got a new car,
but do we know if they'resuffering from a mental illness
or if they're strugglingfinancially or what they're
going through.
And so the, the notion ofcommunities of care is actually
this hearkening, this longingfor that nostalgic time period
of back in the day, which I,know was oversimplified.
(17:35):
And there were a lot of problemsthat were happening during those
times too.
But the idea that we all need totake care of one another, and
there's this beautiful Buddhistproverb that, you know, I think
didn't make it into the book,but actually I love using,
because I think it sums thingsup really beautifully, which is
tend to the areas of the gardenthat you can reach.
(17:59):
So if we all look at our owngardens, you know, many times
we're spending time looking atour neighbors gardens and, and,
and, you know, we're, we'recommenting on what they can do
to make their garden lookbetter, or we're thinking about
the forest.
And so we're thinking, gosh, youknow, the problems are so
daunting.
There's no way I could everlike, figure this out or what,
(18:19):
what is my garden gonna do?
Right.
And the idea here is that if wecan just make sure that
everybody in our circle ofinfluence, right, has enough,
has their basic needs met.
The world would look sodifferent.
So let's get
Greg Muzzillo (18:35):
To that.
Although I need to tell you, athought went through my head
when you were just talking aboutthe way things used to be.
And I read a book once it talkedabout how over time we've moved
from a front porch communities,mm-hmm to, the emphasis more
being on being in the backyard.
And yes, and you know, when Iwalked home from school, I
couldn't even get home.
(18:56):
If I was screwing up or doingsomething wrong, there
were people on the front porchwho'd call my mom or whatever.
And, or if I took the tracks,the railroad tracks instead of
the sidewalk or whatever, and wereally have become way more
focused on being in the backyard, if you will, rather than just
being out front in that frontyard and really getting to know
(19:17):
our neighbors.
So
Shelly Tygielski (19:18):
I love that
Greg Muzzillo (19:20):
Mutual aid solidarity, not charity, talk
about that some more.
What does that mean?
Shelly Tygielski (19:31):
Well, that fits in perfectly with the
notion of communities of care.
Right?
I think that, you know, we havemoved as a society as well to
becoming very focused oncharitable causes and
nonprofits.
Not that they're not great,nonprofits are great.
I partner with them all the timeI sit on the board of many, but
(19:52):
the reality is, is that whathappens is in nonprofits
specifically is that most of thetime, you know, you write a
check, it goes to like thiscentral location and then the
check gets dispersed out, right.
Or a portion of it.
Right.
And, and the ideas that we'reremoved once again from actually
that human connection and whatit also focuses on focuses on a
(20:16):
lot of the time is thesocioeconomic or the financial
means to be able to helpingpeople.
And so what mutual aid is, isit's a beautiful idea, right?
That is really steeped in,nature in, Darwinian thought of
ecosystems.
And the fact that in order forecosystems to work well, to
(20:40):
thrive, right, not just survive,but to thrive, there has to be
symbiotic relationships thatevery single one of these
creatures or sentient beings,whether it's in a coral reef
system, whether it's in arainforest, it relies on each
other to survive and to thrive.
And for humans, for some reason,we don't get that.
(21:02):
We don't get that we're part ofthis ecosystem.
y ou know, and we i n evidencethat when we look at, you know,
the depletion of forests, we could look at climate change.
We c ould look a lot of, youknow, different ways that we're
kind of not really beingcooperative i n ecosystems,
we're actually harming them.
So the idea o f mutual aid isthat every single human being in
(21:24):
that community of care in yourcircle influence in your garden,
that you're tending to everyperson, regardless of their s
ocio socioeconomic status,regardless of their, generation
or age bracket, e t c etera, hassomething that they can offer.
And every person has somethingthat they need.
And if we teach, yeah, everysingle person, some people
(21:47):
suffer from time, poverty.
Some people have energy,poverty, some people have
financial poverty, et cetera, etcetera.
And if we could identify whatevery person can do or can give
and what every person needs.
Yeah.
And we can create this web, thisreally intricate web, where
everybody has pieces of thepuzzle that contribute to each
(22:10):
other.
then suddenly we do what wecreate this beautiful equity,
this beautiful environment whereeverybody can have enough.
And we also start to remove thestigma of asking for help
because people come to the tablethinking, well, I need this, but
I can give this.
Right.
(22:30):
And, and so it's, you're notjust a burden when you need
something, you, you are somebodyw ho can give back as well.
Greg Muzzillo (22:37):
And I think a couple things, number one, my
spiritual advisor that I workwith on every Saturday, she
says, Greg, you need to work onyour attitude.
That there's abundance, right?
Yes.
There's not scarcity We live aworld of abundance.
And I think so many of us, yeah.
Including myself sometimes gothrough life that the no, no,
the world is a world of lack.
(22:58):
Like I have to win.
So somebody else loses, right.
Et cetera.
And, but not really, when you,when we experience the world,
the way you talk about it.
Yeah.
There's more than enough for allof us.
Shelly Tygielski (23:11):
Right.
As Martin Luther king said, youknow, said, he said that when a
rising tide lifts all ships andthat's the idea is that we all
can contribute to that risingtide, all of our ships rise.
Greg Muzzillo (23:23):
Absolutely.
And, and we live in a world ofabundance, that we do need to
free ourselves up to experience.
You know, I think most peopletruly like to be asked to help.
In fact, I teach our folks whoare mostly in our business,
mostly in sales.
I say, you know, the mostpowerful words a salesperson can
(23:43):
say as though, you never say itquite this way, as I have a
problem, and I need your help.
Of course, you're asking for theorder, but I tell them why else
would we buy girl scout cookiesfrom cute little girls standing
on our porch during the middleof a period of time where most
people are on a diet, rightbefore Easter, in certain
holiday traditions, why else dowe buy magazines from strangers,
(24:07):
standing on our porch, asking usto help them get through college
magazines will never read.
Right?
So people I think are wired towant to help and people do
people need to and should askmore for help in the right ways.
Shelly Tygielski (24:24):
Yeah.
But I think we have to normalizethat.
And so that's where we have to,we have to set the conditions
for that in our society.
Right.
Because what society tells ustoday is that if you're asking
for help, then you're either,you're not enough.
You're not sufficient in someway, or you're deficient, or
you're a burden right.
(24:44):
In our, minds, we think, oh,people ask for help or become
burdens.
And, and really that's, that'sthe wrong kind of message to
send out to people.
We have to create theseconditions, which I think we can
do with mutual aid and withformalized communities of care
to make it completely normalbecause none of us can go at it
alone.
None of us, I don't care howindependent you think you are.
(25:06):
You are reliant on so manypeople, people that you don't
even know exist,
Greg Muzzillo (25:13):
You know?
Absolutely.
And I would encourage ourlisteners to think about how do
you really feel when somebodysays, can you help me?
Can you give me advice or allthe different ways, those words
show up, we always feel honored.
And, right.
It's an honor to be asked.
It's nothing short of that,
Shelly Tygielski (25:34):
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
But imagine, so if you create,and I know we do this a lot in
like the business world, youknow, like we create these
organizations, like I was partof YPO you k now, young
presidents, organizations,there's organizations called
Vistage.
You know, there's all thesedifferent, really great
organizations where people cometogether to network and to ask
(25:54):
for what they need and to offerhelp.
And that's a formalized sort ofclosed c ircuit network.
So the idea is like, why can'twe translate that into like,
real life?
Why can't we translate that intoreal life?
And to some degree, you know,the religious organizations like
churches and synagogues and, and Mosques, and so forth used to
do this, but as you know, likeas a society, we've also moved
(26:17):
away from, from formalized,religious organizations and so q
uickly.
S o I think, yeah, so I think wereally can, get back to, without
necessarily having to have thosestructures or infrastructures
live in, you know, under achurch roof, for example, but it
could still exist as acommunity.
Greg Muzzillo (26:38):
I think our whole world is on its way there.
You know, I don't want to gettoo far overreaching, but I
think we've just startedentering something called the
age of Aquarius.
My guess is you're very familiarwith that.
And I think we're going througha lot of alt right now is
certain institutions the waythings used to be start to fail
or to change, to start to reallyserve the world of more loving
(27:02):
each other and the way thingsreally were meant to be.
And, so tumult, sometimes itkind of concerns me when I read
the news.
And I think now what, becauseit's almost like every day, but
I think there are certain waysthat things happen in certain
institutions that, that used tobe that don't serve the who
(27:22):
we're on way to be coming and, Ithink it's exciting where we're
heading, but the changesometimes on our way, there
could be frightening.
Very, I love how you finish yourbook, talking about our purpose
is to love and that's not just afeel good kind of a thing.
Our purpose really is to love,to not love others, but to allow
(27:47):
others to love us.
I think as we close our timetogether, tell us a little bit
more about how each of us andall of us can create a more
loving life and a more lovingworld.
Shelly Tygielski (27:59):
Well, I'll give you something really
tangible.
And this actually is born in, mypersonal practice.
So when I, identify when I'mself aware of an emotion that
I'm feeling right, again, no bador good emotions, but like,
let's say there's somethinghappening in the world and it, I
feeling outrage or I'm feelingfear, or I'm feeling confused
(28:22):
about it, or what, what haveyou, biologically
evolutionarily, we tend to enterthis like fight flight freeze
mode.
Right, We're like, wow, I'mfeeling this negative or very
uncomfortable emotion.
And I'm just like stuck in it.
I'm stuck in this place.
Yeah.
If we're able to identify whatit is that we're feeling like
(28:42):
really label it, or as Dr.
Dan Siegal says name it to tameit.
If we're able to do that, thenwe can move beyond that emotion.
And we can ask two follow upquestions.
And so the follow up questionsare this number one.
What can I do about it?
So for example, if I'm feelinganger, I could say, okay, I've
(29:07):
identified what I'm feeling, whyI'm feeling it.
I'm nurturing that, what can Ido about it?
But the follow up question,right?
Because think about it.
If you're feeling anger, whatcan I do about it?
Sometimes the response is notnecessarily very productive or
pleasant.
The follow up question is justas important, which is, and how
(29:27):
do I come from a place of loveand how do I come from a place
of love?
And so if you can get to thepoint where you're like, I feel
very uncomfortable or I'm seeingan injustice in the world or in
my life that is not right.
Or is not sitting well with meand what can I do about it?
And how do I come from a placeof love?
(29:48):
It could lead you to, you know,even the tiniest pebble, That
you can throw into a pond andreally start to create ripple e
ffect.
Greg Muzzillo (29:58):
Yeah.
To be that ripple that can Iactually change The world?
Shelly Tygielski (30:02):
Absolutely we all are.
Greg Muzzillo (30:04):
I, we all are.
And I love your book Sit down torise up.
I encourage all of our listenersto get a hold of that and, work
on yourselves and work on theworld that we all share
together.
Thank you for the time you sharetogether with me.
I appreciate your time and yourwisdom.
Shelly Tygielski (30:24):
Thank you so much.
I appreciate you too.
Hello, and welcome to Million Dollar
Monday.
I'm your host, Greg.
Muzzillo bringing you realsuccessful people with real
useful advice for people withbig dreams.
I understand and big dreams.
I turned an investment of$200and a lot of great advice from
some really successful peopleinto my big dream Proforma.
(00:31):
That today is a half billiondollar company.
Well, hello and welcome.
Today I have a very interestingand exciting guest with an
important message.
She is a self care activist andfounder of the global mutual aid
(00:55):
organization.
Pandemic of love her work hasbeen featured by over a hundred
news outlets, including CBS ThisMorning and the New York Times.
She is a mindfulness teacher andhas been named one of the 12
most powerful women in themindfulness movement by
mindful.org.
Thank you for joining me, ShellyTygielski.
Shelly Tygielski (01:17):
Thank you so much, Greg, for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Greg Muzzillo (01:21):
I loved your book.
Can I appreciate you sharing itwith me?
Great stuff here and, of courseshowing up, for ourselves and
for others is what life reallyneeds to be about and sitting
down to rise up.
That's gonna make a lot ofsense.
And then the subtitle of courseis called, how radical self care
(01:43):
can change our world.
And we're going to get to thatin a minute, but f irst Shelly,
tell us a little bit about yourgrowing up years and some other
life experiences that led you towrite the book.
Shelly Tygielski (01:56):
Wow.
I mean, that's really the wholesection of the first part of the
book, its loaded question, but,I guess, you know, in brief I,
grew up, I was born in Israel,to a, very traditional Sephardic
Jewish family, r eally was forall intents and purposes when I
(02:19):
moved here to the u sconsidered, to be an Orthodox
Jew.
And, you know, so I had grown upwith contemplative practices,
but, eventually sort of, movedaway from, from the traditional
and found, different modalitiesto lean into in terms of how to,
(02:40):
just be more spiritual and,really lean into, the inner
work.
one of the stories that I opened the book with is a story
about how I was kidnapped when Iwas two years old my mother.
Greg Muzzillo (02:54):
Crazy story By the way, crazy, story.
Shelly Tygielski (02:55):
Totally.
It is a crazy story, but itreally seeded and informed a lot
of the work that I do today.
Interestingly enough.
Right.
So, the story, the short versionof the story is my mother, newly
immigrated here to the UnitedStates.
Barely speaking a word ofEnglish.
(03:16):
I was two years old.
She was getting her, ID or herlicense from the DMV in Brooklyn
was doing her eye exam and I wastaken, and a woman who I
describe as a good Samaritan wassitting in the waiting room,
when this happened and saw mebeing carried out by somebody
(03:37):
who was not who I came in with.
And in that moment, this womanhad three choices to make.
She could have done nothing,which is an active choice.
She could have gone to find mymother, which seems like a safer
choice.
And, the third, choice, which isthe riskiest and ultimately what
she wound up doing, which couldbe argued, saved my life or,
(04:01):
definitely saved me fromwhatever fate, you know, was
going to befall me, was to, justrise up and, follow these
individuals, several city blocksand see where they were heading
so that she could go back to theDMV at that point where all hell
had broken loose and leteverybody know, you know, where
(04:24):
I was.
And so, you know, it'sinteresting because the story
had been told many timesthroughout my life.
And, the focus was always onhaving empathy, of course, for
my mother, like, oh, I can'tbelieve that you went through
that.
It's a horrible, right.
And of course for me, becausepeople, you know, already
(04:46):
assumed that I had, traumaassociated with, this incident,
which by the way, I have norecollection of it.
I was two years old and just,you know, have done regressive
therapy before.
And I, there doesn't seem to beany trauma there what
whatsoever, but, the, the pointof the matter is, is that, you
know, it was very interesting tome because very few people, when
(05:07):
we told the story focused onthis courageous and bold act of
this woman who had agency asense of agency, right, we all
have God given free, will we allhave, you know, agency, but very
few of us really understand thesense, what a sense of agency
is, which was really just theability to be reflective and
(05:29):
have awareness and beintrospective about how our
actions can actually affectother people and affect the
world.
And so that woman, and that actactually later on wound up
really fueling within me, theneed to, grab a hold of my sense
of agency, grab those reigns andunderstand how interconnected, I
(05:54):
am to, all sentient beings onthis planet and how I, as one
individual, can really affectchange in the world and the
through line of the book really,and of my life, I think is that
the, the best version of theworld starts with the best
version of, you know, ourselves.
Greg Muzzillo (06:12):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So a happy ending, butnonetheless, a wonderful life
lesson.
So the book, sit down to rise uphow radical self care can change
the world.
What is radical self care?
Shelly Tygielski (06:31):
Radical Self care is basically, a reclamation
of what self care was initiallywhen the movement of self-care
started, which was born in, andis rooted in feminism and the
civil rights movement.
Self-care, you know, for manypeople, not just back then, but
(06:51):
also today is rooted insurvival.
And I think that, you know, whenwe look at what self-care is now
on the, internet, or we searchup on Instagram, the hashtag
self-care the things that comeup, really don't qualify as
self-care, because the term hasbeen hijacked by the industrial
(07:13):
wellness complex.
So we associate a self-care withthings that cost money, right?
Like, bath bombs or green juicesor a Peloton, or what have you.
And it's not that those thingscan't help contribute to your
health, et cetera, but reallythat's not what selfcare is so
radical self care essentially isthis reclamation that self care
(07:33):
is about having and making surethat our basic needs are met and
the basic needs of thoseindividuals in our community are
also met that every person inour community has enough.
And that's how I describe it inthe book.
And when we talk about the termself care, this is a really
important kind of distinctionthat I make of the book is that
(07:56):
self is not the I the individualthat just like lives in this
body, right.
The self extends far beyond thatthe self extends to in not in a
'woo woo' way, but just, youknow, in terms of like our
impact on the world, right?
Sometimes just a word, a kindword, or an action can have far
(08:17):
reaching effects and actuallychanges the course of somebody's
life and creates these rippleeffects that extend far beyond
this body right here.
When we talk about the I or theself, so when I talk about
self-care, I'm really talkingabout communal care, I'm talking
about how do we intricatelyweave these webs of, you know,
(08:41):
safety nets for each other, andthen in a radical way, take on
the, uh, moral obligation totake care of one another.
Greg Muzzillo (08:52):
But like you say, in the book, um, it starts
showing up, starts withourselves first, almost like,
you know, that announcement onthe, when you're taking off on
an airplane, says, you know, ifthat mask falls down first take
care of yourself so that you cantake care of your child or
whatever, I think your book kindof tells that same story for us
to have the maximum impact oneach other.
(09:15):
We have to, first of all, makemaximum impact on ourselves.
Shelly Tygielski (09:18):
We do.
But I do wanna say that, youknow, while yes, we have to take
care of ourselves first to takecare of others.
We need others oftentimes to beable to take care of ourselves
in the right way.
Yeah.
And I think that many of usthink like, I'm gonna go at it
alone, or I should ask for help.
Greg Muzzillo (09:37):
Right.
No.
Yeah.
That's a great point.
Shelly Tygielski (09:38):
We have obstacles in our way and we need
others to help us remove thoseobstacles.
Greg Muzzillo (09:44):
That's a great point.
You know, sometimes when I eventhink about it, and even when I
read the words, it was morelike, okay, me, myself, and I
have to make sure I'm okay,first then I can go take care of
the world.
And it's not that way.
You're right.
I mean, there are so many otherpeople in our world and in our
lives, who all are part of theprocess of are being okay.
You know, I like how you saythat the book is for those
(10:06):
people who have found themselvescompletely lost.
But I think if people werehonest, everybody's been
completely lost at at least onetime in the, their life.
Right?
Shelly Tygielski (10:17):
Yeah.
Well, I think so.
I think that's really I wouldsay that multiple times in our
life, we almost have to yes.
In order to find ourselves, wehave to get lost or, be lost.
Greg Muzzillo (10:30):
Right.
So your book kind, kind of takesa turn away from finding happy,
finding joy.
And it's really about not aimingat happiness.
Talk to us a little bit aboutnot aiming at happiness.
Shelly Tygielski (10:46):
Yeah.
So I think that, you know,similar to this hijacking of,
the term self care, in our worldtoday, I think this, notion that
we need to be positive and happyall the time and that, you know,
there's this, kind of feeling ofoh, good vibes only, you know,
and that's totally not realisticand, and really leads to toxic
(11:10):
positivity.
It leads us with this notionthat there are good emotions and
that there are bad emotions.
And the reality is is that theiremotions are neither good, nor
bad.
They just are.
And that if we can learn toreally lean into the entire
human experience and be willingto actually sit with discomfort
(11:31):
right.
And, and have, uncomfortableconversations and really sense,
all of it that comes with beinghuman, then I think we are able
to really be present andself-aware, and, actually, show
up in a fuller way.
Yeah.
You know, show up in a way thatthe quality of the way that we
(11:54):
show up is completely differentand really more genuine.
Greg Muzzillo (12:00):
Yeah.
Well, beyond the, Hey, how areyou?
I'm okay.
How are you doing I'm okay.
All right.
Yeah.
I love the line in your book.
Validation is for parking, talkto us about validation and,
what's that all about?
Shelly Tygielski (12:18):
Well, I talk in the book a lot about my own
personal afflictions and issueswith self-worth and imposter
syndrome, which I know a lot ofpeople can relate to, especially
people who are successful inbusiness and so forth, you know,
you kind feel like, you know, atany point in time, sort of the
sales can be, the wind can betaken out of your sales or, you
(12:40):
know, how is this even reallyhappening?
And you're kind of scared, youknow, that, that you're going to
lose it all.
And so, you know, I talk a lotabout this, drive to sort of
this pursuit of excellence thatI had since I was a little girl
and how it was really fueled bythe need to be validated the
need to feel like I am enoughand that I am good enough and
(13:02):
that I'm worthy.
And how I never really got therethrough the accumulation of
pedigree or awards or accoladesor anything, you know?
And, and so you end up a greatjob as a CEO, which is where I
ended up, you know, you end upwith, with, with a great
paycheck, you end up with a lotof stuff with a lot of, you know
(13:25):
, material things andobligations and
responsibilities.
Yeah.
But you don't per se end up anyhappier.
You don't end up feeling any,more worthy than you did at the
beginning.
And so it, what it really meansthat sentence is like, listen,
you know, the need forvalidation is not, um, something
(13:51):
that humans need to focus on.
If we wanna focus on presenceand happiness and self-awareness
et cetera.
And so, you know, that that'skind of my plea.
And so I thought about that andI thought, in that moment, I
think, I feel like I wasprobably sitting like in a valet
line, like waiting for my ticketto be validated when I came up
(14:13):
with that term, It was because Ilove it.
Like you, Hey, do you need yourticket validated?
And I was like, yes I do, but Ido not need to be validated.
Yeah.
Greg Muzzillo (14:22):
However, and I can only speak for myself.
I think that a lot of damage canbe done to young souls, young
people by parents, unwittingly,surely not purposely trying to
hurt their child and teachers.
Yeah.
And so at a young age, somepeople can get negative labels
(14:43):
that are really sticky labelsand sure.
And we, you know, we have to dosome work to get rid of those
labels and know that know that'snot me.
That might have been yourperception of me.
That's not me.
And I can move beyond that.
I'm okay.
Shelly Tygielski (15:00):
Yeah.
Right.
Absolutely.
I think that we also tend tosometimes though assign, because
we tend to be our own worstcritics too.
So we also assign labels toourselves.
It's so interesting because youknow, obviously through social
media, you wind up connectingwith people that you knew in
high school that you like losttouch with or from grade school
or what have you.
(15:20):
And there were so many peoplethat I reconnected with that
were like, I remember the wayyou were in, you know, in middle
school.
And, and they had this wholeother view, or lens of myself
and it's the exact opposite ofhow I viewed myself during those
years, you know?
And I'm like, God, if I onlyknew that that's how people
(15:41):
viewed me.
I was, I was my own worst, youknow, worst critic.
That's a great, I was the onethat, that actually you, know's
a negative self talker and, anddidn't think, and going back to
the chance of unworthiness, youknow?
Greg Muzzillo (15:55):
Right.
So through all of that, you getto talking about communities of
care, such a beautiful phrase.
What does that look like?
What's that all about?
Shelly Tygielski (16:06):
So I talk about it in the book as
something that I think is prettyrelatable.
All of us had at one point oranother, whether it was a
grandparent or a parent or afamily member who used to
nostalgically paint this picturefor us of this magical time
period called back in the day,right.
Back in the day when we werekids, everybody knew everybody's
(16:28):
business.
Everybody knew their neighbors.
We knew, we didn't just knowtheir, we knew what was going on
in their lives.
And we took responsibility forthese individuals so that if
somebody lost their job, theynever had to worry that there
wouldn't be a roof over theirhead, you know?
And, and, and we would all, as acommunity, help them find a job.
If somebody lost a parent, we,the whole village would take
(16:52):
care of those children.
And if somebody, you know, andso on.
And so I, we've obviously lostthat along the way as we moved
into suburbia, as we becameindustrialized.
And certainly with the advent oftechnology, which in many ways
connects us, but in many waysalso superficially connects us.
Right?
Those, those real connectionsare gone.
(17:13):
We don't really know ourneighbors anymore.
We may know that don't theirname.
You know, we may wave, we mayknow they just got a new car,
but do we know if they'resuffering from a mental illness
or if they're strugglingfinancially or what they're
going through.
And so the, the notion ofcommunities of care is actually
this hearkening, this longingfor that nostalgic time period
of back in the day, which I,know was oversimplified.
(17:35):
And there were a lot of problemsthat were happening during those
times too.
But the idea that we all need totake care of one another, and
there's this beautiful Buddhistproverb that, you know, I think
didn't make it into the book,but actually I love using,
because I think it sums thingsup really beautifully, which is
tend to the areas of the gardenthat you can reach.
(17:59):
So if we all look at our owngardens, you know, many times
we're spending time looking atour neighbors gardens and, and,
and, you know, we're, we'recommenting on what they can do
to make their garden lookbetter, or we're thinking about
the forest.
And so we're thinking, gosh, youknow, the problems are so
daunting.
There's no way I could everlike, figure this out or what,
(18:19):
what is my garden gonna do?
Right.
And the idea here is that if wecan just make sure that
everybody in our circle ofinfluence, right, has enough,
has their basic needs met.
The world would look sodifferent.
So let's get
Greg Muzzillo (18:35):
To that.
Although I need to tell you, athought went through my head
when you were just talking aboutthe way things used to be.
And I read a book once it talkedabout how over time we've moved
from a front porch communities,mm-hmm to, the emphasis more
being on being in the backyard.
And yes, and you know, when Iwalked home from school, I
couldn't even get home.
(18:56):
If I was screwing up or doingsomething wrong,
were people on the front porchwho'd call my mom or whatever.
And, or if I took the tracks,the railroad tracks instead of
the sidewalk or whatever, and wereally have become way more
focused on being in the backyard, if you will, rather than just
being out front in that frontyard and really getting to know
(19:17):
our neighbors.
So
Shelly Tygielski (19:18):
I love that
Greg Muzzillo (19:20):
Mutual aid solidarity, not charity, talk
about that some more.
What does that mean?
Shelly Tygielski (19:31):
Well, that fits in perfectly with the
notion of communities of care.
Right?
I think that, you know, we havemoved as a society as well to
becoming very focused oncharitable causes and
nonprofits.
Not that they're not great,nonprofits are great.
I partner with them all the timeI sit on the board of many, but
(19:52):
the reality is, is that whathappens is in nonprofits
specifically is that most of thetime, you know, you write a
check, it goes to like thiscentral location and then the
check gets dispersed out, right.
Or a portion of it.
Right.
And, and the ideas that we'reremoved once again from actually
that human connection and whatit also focuses on focuses on a
(20:16):
lot of the time is thesocioeconomic or the financial
means to be able to helpingpeople.
And so what mutual aid is, isit's a beautiful idea, right?
That is really steeped in,nature in, Darwinian thought of
ecosystems.
And the fact that in order forecosystems to work well, to
(20:40):
thrive, right, not just survive,but to thrive, there has to be
symbiotic relationships thatevery single one of these
creatures or sentient beings,whether it's in a coral reef
system, whether it's in arainforest, it relies on each
other to survive and to thrive.
And for humans, for some reason,we don't get that.
(21:02):
We don't get that we're part ofthis ecosystem.
y ou know, and we i n evidencethat when we look at, you know,
the depletion of forests, we could look at climate change.
We c ould look a lot of, youknow, different ways that we're
kind of not really beingcooperative i n ecosystems,
we're actually harming them.
So the idea o f mutual aid isthat every single human being in
(21:24):
that community of care in yourcircle influence in your garden,
that you're tending to everyperson, regardless of their s
ocio socioeconomic status,regardless of their, generation
or age bracket, e t c etera, hassomething that they can offer.
And every person has somethingthat they need.
And if we teach, yeah, everysingle person, some people
(21:47):
suffer from time, poverty.
Some people have energy,poverty, some people have
financial poverty, et cetera, etcetera.
And if we could identify whatevery person can do or can give
and what every person needs.
Yeah.
And we can create this web, thisreally intricate web, where
everybody has pieces of thepuzzle that contribute to each
(22:10):
other.
then suddenly we do what wecreate this beautiful equity,
this beautiful environment whereeverybody can have enough.
And we also start to remove thestigma of asking for help
because people come to the tablethinking, well, I need this, but
I can give this.
Right.
(22:30):
And, and so it's, you're notjust a burden when you need
something, you, you are somebodyw ho can give back as well.
Greg Muzzillo (22:37):
And I think a couple things, number one, my
spiritual advisor that I workwith on every Saturday, she
says, Greg, you need to work onyour attitude.
That there's abundance, right?
Yes.
There's not scarcity We live aworld of abundance.
And I think so many of us, yeah.
Including myself sometimes gothrough life that the no, no,
the world is a world of lack.
(22:58):
Like I have to win.
So somebody else loses, right.
Et cetera.
And, but not really, when you,when we experience the world,
the way you talk about it.
Yeah.
There's more than enough for allof us.
Shelly Tygielski (23:11):
Right.
As Martin Luther king said, youknow, said, he said that when a
rising tide lifts all ships andthat's the idea is that we all
can contribute to that risingtide, all of our ships rise.
Greg Muzzillo (23:23):
Absolutely.
And, and we live in a world ofabundance, that we do need to
free ourselves up to experience.
You know, I think most peopletruly like to be asked to help.
In fact, I teach our folks whoare mostly in our business,
mostly in sales.
I say, you know, the mostpowerful words a salesperson can
(23:43):
say as though, you never say itquite this way, as I have a
problem, and I need your help.
Of course, you're asking for theorder, but I tell them why else
would we buy girl scout cookiesfrom cute little girls standing
on our porch during the middleof a period of time where most
people are on a diet, rightbefore Easter, in certain
holiday traditions, why else dowe buy magazines from strangers,
(24:07):
standing on our porch, asking usto help them get through college
magazines will never read.
Right?
So people I think are wired towant to help and people do
people need to and should askmore for help in the right ways.
Shelly Tygielski (24:24):
Yeah.
But I think we have to normalizethat.
And so that's where we have to,we have to set the conditions
for that in our society.
Right.
Because what society tells ustoday is that if you're asking
for help, then you're either,you're not enough.
You're not sufficient in someway, or you're deficient, or
you're a burden right.
(24:44):
In our, minds, we think, oh,people ask for help or become
burdens.
And, and really that's, that'sthe wrong kind of message to
send out to people.
We have to create theseconditions, which I think we can
do with mutual aid and withformalized communities of care
to make it completely normalbecause none of us can go at it
alone.
None of us, I don't care howindependent you think you are.
(25:06):
You are reliant on so manypeople, people that you don't
even know exist,
Greg Muzzillo (25:13):
You know?
Absolutely.
And I would encourage ourlisteners to think about how do
you really feel when somebodysays, can you help me?
Can you give me advice or allthe different ways, those words
show up, we always feel honored.
And, right.
It's an honor to be asked.
It's nothing short of that,
Shelly Tygielski (25:34):
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
But imagine, so if you create,and I know we do this a lot in
like the business world, youknow, like we create these
organizations, like I was partof YPO you k now, young
presidents, organizations,there's organizations called
Vistage.
You know, there's all thesedifferent, really great
organizations where people cometogether to network and to ask
(25:54):
for what they need and to offerhelp.
And that's a formalized sort ofclosed c ircuit network.
So the idea is like, why can'twe translate that into like,
real life?
Why can't we translate that intoreal life?
And to some degree, you know,the religious organizations like
churches and synagogues and, and Mosques, and so forth used to
do this, but as you know, likeas a society, we've also moved
(26:17):
away from, from formalized,religious organizations and so q
uickly.
S o I think, yeah, so I think wereally can, get back to, without
necessarily having to have thosestructures or infrastructures
live in, you know, under achurch roof, for example, but it
could still exist as acommunity.
Greg Muzzillo (26:38):
I think our whole world is on its way there.
You know, I don't want to gettoo far overreaching, but I
think we've just startedentering something called the
age of Aquarius.
My guess is you're very familiarwith that.
And I think we're going througha lot of alt right now is
certain institutions the waythings used to be start to fail
or to change, to start to reallyserve the world of more loving
(27:02):
each other and the way thingsreally were meant to be.
And, so tumult, sometimes itkind of concerns me when I read
the news.
And I think now what, becauseit's almost like every day, but
I think there are certain waysthat things happen in certain
institutions that, that used tobe that don't serve the who
(27:22):
we're on way to be coming and, Ithink it's exciting where we're
heading, but the changesometimes on our way, there
could be frightening.
Very, I love how you finish yourbook, talking about our purpose
is to love and that's not just afeel good kind of a thing.
Our purpose really is to love,to not love others, but to allow
(27:47):
others to love us.
I think as we close our timetogether, tell us a little bit
more about how each of us andall of us can create a more
loving life and a more lovingworld.
Shelly Tygielski (27:59):
Well, I'll give you something really
tangible.
And this actually is born in, mypersonal practice.
So when I, identify when I'mself aware of an emotion that
I'm feeling right, again, no bador good emotions, but like,
let's say there's somethinghappening in the world and it, I
feeling outrage or I'm feelingfear, or I'm feeling confused
(28:22):
about it, or what, what haveyou, biologically
evolutionarily, we tend to enterthis like fight flight freeze
mode.
Right, We're like, wow, I'mfeeling this negative or very
uncomfortable emotion.
And I'm just like stuck in it.
I'm stuck in this place.
Yeah.
If we're able to identify whatit is that we're feeling like
(28:42):
really label it, or as Dr.
Dan Siegal says name it to tameit.
If we're able to do that, thenwe can move beyond that emotion.
And we can ask two follow upquestions.
And so the follow up questionsare this number one.
What can I do about it?
So for example, if I'm feelinganger, I could say, okay, I've
(29:07):
identified what I'm feeling, whyI'm feeling it.
I'm nurturing that, what can Ido about it?
But the follow up question,right?
Because think about it.
If you're feeling anger, whatcan I do about it?
Sometimes the response is notnecessarily very productive or
pleasant.
The follow up question is justas important, which is, and how
(29:27):
do I come from a place of loveand how do I come from a place
of love?
And so if you can get to thepoint where you're like, I feel
very uncomfortable or I'm seeingan injustice in the world or in
my life that is not right.
Or is not sitting well with meand what can I do about it?
And how do I come from a placeof love?
(29:48):
It could lead you to, you know,even the tiniest pebble, That
you can throw into a pond andreally start to create ripple e
ffect.
Greg Muzzillo (29:58):
Yeah.
To be that ripple that can Iactually change The world?
Shelly Tygielski (30:02):
Absolutely we all are.
Greg Muzzillo (30:04):
I, we all are.
And I love your book Sit down torise up.
I encourage all of our listenersto get a hold of that and, work
on yourselves and work on theworld that we all share
together.
Thank you for the time you sharetogether with me.
I appreciate your time and yourwisdom.
Shelly Tygielski (30:24):
Thank you so much.
I appreciate you too.
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