July 25, 2024 • 32 mins
In this episode of The Million Dollar Producer Show, I welcome Tom Schwab, author of Podcast Guest Profits: Grow Your Business with a Targeted Interview Strategy and founder and CEO of Interview Valet.
Tom shares his insights on leveraging guest podcasting as a powerful tool for building authority and growing your business.
Tom's Journey: From Engineer to Chief Evangelist Officer
- Career Transition: Tom's journey began as an engineer running nuclear power plants, teaching him the importance of systems and processes. He later transitioned to corporate America and eventually founded Interview Valet.
- Chief Evangelist Officer: Unlike typical CEOs, Tom sees his role as evangelizing for his category, clients, and company, demonstrating the power of guest podcasting in building a brand and business.
Guest Podcasting: A Strategic Approach
- Importance of Authority: He emphasizes the need to build authority in the marketplace before attempting to sell services. He discusses how writing a book and then using guest podcasting to promote it can create a significant impact.
- Effective Marketing: Tom shares his experience that guest podcasting has become the number one driver for his business, providing high-quality, pre-sold leads that are ready for impactful conversations.
Interview Valet: Enhancing Guest Podcasting
- Service Offerings: Interview Valet helps clients by scheduling targeted podcast interviews, optimizing content for marketing, and repurposing interviews for maximum impact.
- Client Success: He recounts stories of clients, like Eric Weinheimer, using virtual book tours and podcast interviews to effectively promote their books and services.
Key Takeaways and Future Directions
- Marketing Evolution: Tom addresses the changing landscape of marketing, emphasizing the importance of pragmatic and practical approaches that build genuine connections and trust with potential clients.
- Actionable Steps: He encourages listeners to visit Interview Valet’s dedicated page for Million Dollar Producer Show listeners, offering resources such as an assessment quiz, a copy of his book, and a scheduling link for further discussion.
About our Guest: Tom Schwab, author of Podcast Guest Profits: Grow Your Business with a Targeted Interview Strategy and founder and CEO of Interview Valet.
You can learn more about his work at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/iamtomschwab/
https://interviewvalet.com/
About Your Host: Paul G. McManus is an accomplished author and expert in helping financial professionals grow their businesses. With over eight years of experience working exclusively with financial professionals, Paul has helped his clients generate tens of millions of dollars in fees and commissions.
Claim your free audiobook copy at: www.theshortbookformula.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to another episode of the Million Dollar
Producer Show.
I'm your host, paul G McManus.
Today I'm here with a specialguest, mr Tom Schwab, who is the
author of podcast guest profitsgrow your business with a
targeted interview strategy, andalso the founder and CEO of a
(00:26):
company called Interview Ballet.
And I understand from you, tom,that it's not chief executive
officer, but it's chiefevangelist officer.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
That's right.
I've got some friends that wereCEOs of publicly traded
companies.
The job they do is differentthan the job I do.
My job is to evangelize for ourcategory, for our clients and
for our company, and that's whatI'm doing here and what I love
to do and really show people howthey can do it to grow their
brand and their business.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I'm super excited to have you here because we have a
very common passion when itcomes to things such as
authority, marketing, influence,speaking and especially using
guest podcasting as a vehicle tocreate that awareness for your
brand and your business.
I think I actually came acrossyou originally several years ago
(01:17):
when a colleague of mine waslooking into the idea of guest
podcasting and I recall that shegot a copy of your book.
That was the first time thatyou came on my radar and that
was several years ago.
And it's funny because there'salways this thing known as
timing right.
People don't take action,people don't buy when we want
them to buy darn it.
(01:38):
But they have ideas, problemsthat they're looking to solve
and they're looking forsolutions.
I'll try to make this concise,but our listeners know that we
focus in on helping our clientswrite and publish books as one
of those key vehicles forcreating authority in the
marketplace and awareness in themarketplace.
But then the question alwaysbecomes I've published my book,
(01:59):
now what?
And that's what I like to maybereally have as a theme for this
overall conversation that we'reabout to have about guest
podcasting and really justcreating awareness, trust in the
marketplace for things that arenot simple services, but tell
us about yourself, who is TomSchwab, and give us a sense of
who you are, and so our audiencecan get to know you a little
(02:21):
bit.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I'm an engineer by degree.
I graduated from the US NavalAcademy.
My first job out of college wasrunning nuclear power plants
and that taught me the systems,the processes, really how to run
a business.
I worked in corporate Americaand then this is my second
company.
My first company was HubSpot'sfirst e-commerce case study, was
(02:47):
HubSpot's first e-commerce casestudy and it was so different
because there we were selling aproduct right, and selling a
product is different than aservice.
In fact, I believe that yousell products, you buy services
right.
It's more that trust, theawareness, that authority,
marketing that you talk about.
And as we started to test thisoh, probably 10 years ago I
(03:08):
hypothesized I bet you could usepodcast interviews, much like
we used to use guest blogs.
Get that know like trust.
So we started to test that itworked well.
I wrote a cheesy little PDF onit.
I did a cheesy little coursethat I never took out of beta
and people came and said I justwant to be the guest, you take
(03:29):
care of the rest.
So we've been doing this nowfor going on 10 years.
The first few years peoplewould say what's a podcast?
And then it's really taken off.
We're working with thoughtleaders.
We're working with high-levelcoaches, consultants,
professional services,nonfiction authors, really to
get their message out there.
Because, no matter what all themarketing says, I don't believe
(03:53):
that we are all just one funnelaway.
I believe we're all oneconversation away.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Yeah, I agree with everything that you just said,
and it's interesting.
I got started in my currentbusiness More Clients, more Fun
back in 2015.
And it started out as aLinkedIn marketing agency and I
discovered financial advisorsand, of course, we want to get
leads and appointments with highnet worth clients.
Fair enough, and so we builtout systems on LinkedIn to
(04:22):
essentially do what at the time,I thought was all that we had
to do, which was to master thetechnology of LinkedIn, learn
the ins and outs and thenultimately schedule appointments
on their calendars.
I thought, wow, missionaccomplished, we are done.
What I discovered over the yearswas that getting people
appointments on their calendar,when it comes to a bit of a cold
(04:43):
approach, is doable, but theclose rate can be abysmal if
you've not, in advance, builtout what I would call that
authority positioning.
And so, just again, just toexpand a little bit on terms of
our evolution and then we'll tiethis into your sweet spot is
(05:04):
that a few years ago maybe three, four years ago now I decided
okay, what's going on here?
How do I fix this?
I'm not an engineer by trade,but I guess I think analytically
when it comes to solvingproblems.
And it was how can we betterposition our clients so that
when they're having that firstconversation with a prospect,
they don't have to try to sellthemselves as much.
(05:26):
In other words, we want toreverse that order.
So instead of that push, pushsale, it's really much more of
an attraction based approach.
And that led us to, or that ledme to, coming up with what I
call the short book formula,which is a way to lead with a
book, to establish interest inthe problems that an advisor
helps solve, the target audience, et cetera, and that
(05:49):
positioning we found to betremendously more valuable than
simply just getting people,leads and appointments.
I'm sure you have thoughtsabout this, given what you've
done and what you do, so I'lljust flip it over to you and,
just leading with that premiseMaybe, what are your thoughts
there?
Speaker 2 (06:04):
I was going to say people are either going to agree
with us or disagree.
Either way, I'm fine with that.
I look at that as my ownexperience, right, being
probably your ideal customer,not in the financial services
industry, but professionalservices and I just look in.
So many of these tactics thatwe have are getting more
efficient but less effective.
(06:26):
Right In the time we've beentalking here, you could send out
a million cold emails butthey're not going to do anything
.
From that standpoint, you needthat authority and sometimes
it's not a perfect engineeredsystem.
Right, you talked aboutsomebody had gotten my book and
had talked about that.
Right, sometimes it's more ofserendipity, but you know that
(06:49):
it works.
And I think often now there'sthis push to be oh, we've got to
use more technology, moreeverything.
I remember reading a book yearsago called Click Sand how
digital marketing is ruiningyour business, and Bill Troy
nailed it years ago when he saidwhales don't click and big fish
(07:09):
don't swim through funnels.
Right, they're not just looking, scrolling on their social
media just to see what they canbuy from you.
No, it takes a conversation andtoday more than ever, it's
easier to do that through a book, a print-on-demand book, an
audio book, through publicspeaking, through webinars,
(07:31):
through stages and those couldbe physical stages or digital
stages.
And, paul, I got to admit Iwrote a book, but my roommate
from college swore that he wasgoing to give it a one-star
review.
He was going to give it aone-star review and say worst
coloring book ever.
He proofread all of my papersat the academy.
(07:53):
He couldn't believe thatEnglish was my first language or
that I had actually graduatedfrom high school.
I'm not a great writer and Iwould say that it's come with
time, but I'd much rather talkand get the ideas out that way,
and I think that's why today,there's no better time to be
alive.
Right, you can talk and thenyou can transcribe.
(08:15):
You can have a great ghostwriter or a great team and a
partner put that together in aformat that makes it a great
book.
Even now, with podcasts, right,90% of podcasts have video.
So, while we'll call it apodcast, there's probably
somebody listening and watchingon YouTube and they're like it's
(08:36):
not a podcast, it's a video.
I don't care what you call it,just so long as people get to
know you Just a lot of things Iwanna unpack there.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
One is that's always been our process for what we do
with our clients in terms ofhelping them become published
authors is that our basicpremise is that they're not
writers, right, these areexperienced financial advisors
who have spent years oftentimesdoing what they do.
They have a ton of stories,they're funny, they know how to
(09:05):
build relationships with clients, and they do all this very
naturally in person when they'retalking to clients and the idea
is okay, how do you capture thebest of all of that and then
package it into a book that canthen be and I call it a
salesperson in print, meaningthat you can put it out there in
advance and let your idealclients judge whether or not
(09:28):
that it's a good fit, and then,ultimately, they come to you.
I would also want to pick up onone more thing.
I heard you say that you'reoftentimes just a conversation
away, and I can validate that,because, picking up on the story
about how I first came acrossyou and just in this big world
that we live in, is that someonementioned your book because it
was specific about the topic ofguest podcasting, and this was
(09:48):
years ago.
And then I want to say, in thelast six months maybe six to 12
months I was a guest on apodcast by a gentleman named
Matt Halloran, who I know is amutual colleague or friend of
ours, and I was asking him aboutguest podcasting and say I
think guest podcasting is great,I just want to do more of them.
(10:09):
And he mentioned your name andyour company.
I'm like, okay, I'll go checkthem out.
That really underscores gettingyour banner out there in terms
of your expertise and what youdo and I would say in this way,
in the form of a book, butultimately being just that one
conversation away from your nextclient, and I shortly after,
(10:29):
scheduled my call with your teamand I'm now a happy client of
Interview Valet.
It's interesting.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Well, we say one conversation, as you described
it there, we had lots ofconversations before we had that
sales conversation.
Right, you had the conversationwith Matt and he had shared
that information with you.
I would argue it's aconversation that you had.
Reading the book, you went tothe website, you listened to
(10:56):
podcast interviews, so there wasthese lots of mini
conversations, so that whensomebody actually calls you for
a, if you want to call it asales call, it's interesting
because if they've already readyour book, if they've already
heard your podcast, they'vealready self-selected right,
they've turned you up or turnedyou off.
(11:16):
It's more of a qualificationcall and I love that because, at
the end of the day, I don'twant more leads, right,
everybody's trying to sell me.
Oh, more leads.
We can get you 20 conversationsa day.
We're not optimizing for moresales or just more leads.
We're optimizing for profits.
(11:37):
And that's happy clients, right?
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Clients that are so thrilled with what you do, the
results that you bring, thatthey gladly give you their money
and also give you referrals,also, right, it really comes
down to and I just experiencedthis in multiple ways in this
past month the best marketingthat you can do, I believe, is
word of mouth marketing.
And how do you do word of mouthmarketing at scale?
(12:02):
I think what we're talkingabout is an example of that.
I'll share a couple other quickexamples.
Six months or so, I have thisdigital business and so day to
day, I'm in my apartment, Idon't go outside.
I'm a little bit of a shut in.
I say that half jokingly, butoccasionally I'll go to a
conference, and I went to twoconferences this month and last
month, and they were amazing.
(12:22):
I got a speaking slot.
I had my book.
It was filled with my idealclients, I had ambitious goals
and I hit them and Ioverachieved them, and the
through line to me is that andthis has been my experience in
running my own business since2015, but also in working with
hundreds and hundreds offinancial advisors and it really
validates, I think, everythingthat you're saying the most
(12:44):
potent way to create awarenessand attract your ideal clients
is a combination of authority orsubject matter, expertise and
speaking can be done on thestage, and arguably that might
be the best way in person,especially if you're around your
ideal clients, because there'sa certain level of energy there.
The second best way in thisvirtual, online digital world
(13:08):
that we live in, I would argue,is guest podcasting.
And I'll give you my hypothesisand I didn't come to this just
by wanting it to be so, Iactually came to this conclusion
by experience is that I've doneplenty of online webinars.
This past year.
I even hired a company to fillup my webinar for me and I
started that process superexcited by wow, all these people
(13:30):
that should be a great fit andthey're in this webinar.
And the results of that weredisappointing.
That they were okay, I guess,at best, but overall the webinar
strategy, which I thought wouldwork really well, was a little
bit disappointing.
And then, at the same time,over the past I'll say year,
plus one to two years I alsostarted doing guest podcasting
where I would go on not just anypodcast, and I think this is
(13:53):
key and really something thatwas a writer downer, as they say
, is that you need to be on theright podcast, so you need to be
on the podcast where your idealclients listen to that host.
And over the past year, plusoutside of live events.
Guest podcasting has become thenumber one driver for my
(14:13):
business.
It's become where I'll go on apodcast and I can predict,
depending on the size of thepodcast, that within days or
weeks, even of it being released, I'm going to have a number of
appointments already on mycalendar scheduled.
And it's just amazing becausethis is my first time to talk to
them.
I know nothing about them,right, other than I Googled them
(14:34):
five minutes before the meetingand they already know enough
about me because they heard meon this podcast.
I call it a one-to-manyreferral because they listen to
this podcast, so they alreadyhave a relationship with the
host and it becomes a softendorsement because, even though
the host isn't saying I endorsethis person, implicit they are
because they're a guest on thepodcast and they want them to
look good, they want you to lookgood, et cetera.
(14:55):
I'm just attracting super highquality ideal prospects who show
up and already know enoughabout me in advance of that call
so that I'm able to have areally impactful conversation
and we can quickly determineokay, is this something that we
should continue the conversationor not?
And typically the answer is yesbecause they know enough.
(15:16):
And then by quote, unquoteclose rate is astronomical it's
80%, and this is within one totwo calls and just I think that
was that's like my view of themagic of guest podcasting.
But I'll just pause there andflip it over to you and just
have you build off of that,based on your own experience and
thoughts.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
My experience and I have seen over the years there's
extroverts and introverts and Igo to those networking events
or the live events, the bigballroom with the hors d'oeuvres
and the alcohol and way, waytoo much noise.
I go there and I find that Idon't have meaningful
conversations and it just drawsmy energy.
(15:52):
It's so tiring for me as anintrovert.
I look at it and I find that Idon't have meaningful
conversations and it just drawsmy energy.
It's so tiring for me as anintrovert.
I look at it and I'm like Ilove to have meaningful
conversations, I love to haveone-on-one conversations, and I
don't think I'm in my best withthe masses there, but I think I
can shine one-on-one and so forme I find that doing the podcast
interviews is easier, moreimpactful, I learn more from it
(16:17):
and I think it warms up theclients there.
I think of all of the liveevents that I went to and I came
back with a stack of businesscards and nobody called me and I
didn't call them and it was awasted time.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
I can play an extrovert on TV, so to speak,
but naturally I'm an introvertand after too many conversations
I have to go away and hide andget recharged and just building
off what you said.
That's where I want qualityconversations, that I have a
reasonable expectation that thisis a good use of my time and
that the next I'm going to getcertain results from this, and
so I totally agree with that.
I want to shift gears slightly,so I'm gonna give you my
(16:54):
hypothesis around something andthen tell me what your thoughts
are.
I think authoring a book isextremely valuable.
I think guest podcasting isextremely valuable.
I also think having yourpodcast, your own podcast, can
be very valuable, and the orderthat I've come up with I think
people get this wrong is that inmy formulation, I would say
(17:17):
that you want to start withauthoring a book.
Now why?
Part of it is just thatcredibility.
Part of it is formulating yourthoughts.
The process we take peoplethrough it's typically over six
coaching calls and we just getthem to really get super focused
on all the value and thestories and everything they've
done, and we encapsulate thatinto a book so that then they
(17:38):
have this thing that they canput out into the world.
And secondly, I would recommendpeople that they look at being
a guest on podcasts, instead ofhosting their own podcasts, as
the next natural step.
And I'll just give a couple ofreasons.
Why is that?
When you have your own podcast,it has its place, but it's hard
work.
It's really hard work if you doit consistently and you really
(18:00):
want to do a good job andultimately, you're responsible
for building the audience forthe most part, whereas with
guest podcasting and what reallywhat most people want is they
don't necessarily want to playthe role of the host and the
interviewer and be thought, askgood questions.
They want to go tell their story.
They wouldn't be like, hey, Ijust wrote this book and I want
to tell people about it.
Right, it's all about me, whichI love.
I love guest podcasting, butyou're also leveraging other
(18:22):
people's audiences.
You're leveraging the work thatthey've put in for years and
building these audiences andbuilding relationship, and now
you're tapping into thataudience and I think that's one
of the reasons that I know I'mseeing such great results is
that I'm taking the authorityI've built through my book.
I'm working with companies likeyours to get scheduled on
(18:42):
podcasts and then I'm reapingthe rewards.
How did you react or expandupon that from your experience?
Speaker 2 (18:50):
I think you're right in that it's not an either or
right.
It's not which one should I do,but which order should I do
that in.
And I think for me, if I hadfound somebody like you, I think
I would have had the book outmuch sooner, because I had to
talk on podcasts to process myideas, to process my stories,
(19:10):
and after I had talked itthrough enough, then I was like,
oh yeah, I can put all of thistogether.
So that's the way I did it.
Then, once somebody comes outwith a book, they're just like
let's, if you build it, theywill not come.
You've got to go out there andtalk about that and reference
back.
Should you be a guest or a host?
I don't think it's an either,or it's almost.
Should I be a Uber driver or anUber passenger?
(19:31):
Same platform but differentgoals.
So I think when you're a guest,that's a great way to go out
and get new leads, get newexposure, get new followers, new
SEO backlinks, new content thatyou can use in your marketing
to nurture your current leads,to nurture past clients, to show
(19:53):
them what new things you'reworking on.
So that's a great way to dothat.
Now, being a host, like you saidthat is a commitment.
Most podcasts die within thefirst 10 episodes.
It goes from being somethingyou're excited about to
something you're embarrassedabout.
So I always look at being ahost is a great way to nurture
your current leads, nurture yourcurrent clients, but make sure
(20:18):
that you commit to it for a year.
To me I'm an engineer, right, Ialways want to get more out by
putting less in, and it soundsharsh to do this on a podcast
where you're doing all the hardwork.
Right now, paul is doing thevast majority of the work and I
would argue I'll probably getthe vast majority of the benefit
.
So thanks, paul.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Yeah, my pleasure.
Tell us about once you've beena guest on a podcast.
What should you be thinkingabout and doing?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
When people come to us, no one wants to be a guest
on a podcast, so we try to go.
Look at that, it's okay.
So what are you trying toaccomplish?
Is it to launch a book?
Is it for sales?
Is it to get a keynote speakingbusiness?
There's so many different waysyou can use this.
Is it to build content thatyour marketing team can use in
(21:05):
your email and your social media?
So we try to look at that firstand start with the end in mind
of the seven habits of highlyeffective people.
So first and start with the endin mind of the seven habits of
highly effective people.
So we'll start with that andsay what are you trying to do?
Who do you want to talk with?
You can't say enough of theright things to the wrong people
.
And then, once we're on thepodcast, what do you want to
talk about?
(21:26):
What are the issues, what arethe pain points that your
clients have that you canaddress there?
What stories are you going totell?
And, at the end, what are yougoing to help people with for
their next steps?
I hear so many people go on apodcast interview and they've
got this wonderful conversation.
There's no point to it.
(21:47):
There was no intention, right,and there was no calls to action
at the end, they didn't make iteasy for people to go to the
next thing.
And then they're wondering whydidn't this work?
It's like why?
Because you went fishingwithout a fishing pole, without
a hook, not knowing what kind offish you were going after oh
(22:07):
and, by the way, you were in aswimming pool, so trying to work
back into it.
And then, even after you'retalking about controlling the
crowd, you want to talk tocontrolling the conversions.
Right, repurpose the episode.
You can reach all of thosepeople that didn't even listen
(22:38):
to the podcast.
And it's interesting thatpeople always say I've got a
content creation problem.
No, you don't right.
You're doing as much contentcreation as Gary Vee or Tony
Robbins any of those.
The difference is they'recapturing it and repurposing it
and putting it out there.
So many of us are just I haveto write more blogs, I have to
(23:00):
do more videos.
I got to do more podcastinterviews.
No, don't do more with what youhave, and that's something that
we help our clients with too.
Slice it and dice it.
You can get a month's worth ofcontent from every interview.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
I'll share one more tidbit from my experience, in
that as part of my sales processwhether it's on my podcast or
in a guest podcast, oftentimesin addition to my book, I'll
take, I'll curate, a couple ofkey podcasts that I've done and
I will send that to a prospectas part of the, as part of the
steps.
So we typically will have afirst call, we'll make sure
there's an opportunity for bothof us to move forward and in
between, I'll typically send theperson a copy of my book but
(23:39):
also curate maybe one or twopodcasts as like extra bonus
homework, if you will.
I ask the person to read mybook, which can take maybe an
hour, but I also say, hey,here's some more material.
And what I find is that thebest prospects are the ones that
are learners and they devourthis material, and so this is
part of the magic behind my ownsales system in terms of getting
(24:00):
80% higher close rates in oneto two calls is that they're out
there consuming this contentthat I've created and it's just
a, you know, tie a bow on that.
How have I created it?
It's either through being aguest on certain podcasts or
having my podcast, whichever one, but I'm taking that and now
I'm very strategically puttingit out there's part of both my
marketing and sales process, solove to have you expand upon
(24:23):
that anywhere you'd like to.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
You're doing the right things on that right,
Doing more with every interviewas opposed to just doing more
interview and leading with value.
And you say personalization andAI personalization.
When I get those, hey, Tom, wenoticed you live in Kalamazoo
and are the CEO of this.
You just scraped my LinkedInand I think people have this.
(24:48):
I heard somebody refer to it astrust deficit disorder so their
guard is up from the verybeginning that we all think it's
AI and a scam.
Search engines do, and so dopeople.
So what can you do to make surethat it's really individuals?
And I love how you talk aboutthat.
And then, after this interviewgoes live, I can see going
(25:09):
through my database in LinkedInand looking for common
connections between Paul andmyself, and chances are they're
probably in the financialindustry.
They may not have caught thepodcast, but to be able to say,
hey, I was just had the honor ofbeing on Million Dollar
Producers.
We talked about how financialprofessionals can leverage
(25:32):
targeted podcast interviews.
I thought you'd be interestedin this right.
They know that that is a humanright.
It's two humans talking aboutthis and it's the difference too
between, I think today,information and knowledge.
Right, If I want an answer forsomething, I can Google it, I
can ask chat, GPT that'sinformation.
(25:53):
But knowledge, the thing that'shappening now opinions,
experience shares you're onlygoing to get that from two
people talking and I thinkyou're doing the right things.
The other thing is that oftennow I'm the chief evangelist
officer and I got to say we'vegot a team that does things
better than I do.
Right, my microphone makes mesound good, my team makes me
(26:13):
look good.
So often it's Lucina, our seniorcustomer success manager,
that's talking to people and sowhen she sees someone comes in
and they're like oh, they're afinancial advisor, they're in
the financial professionalservices.
She knows all of my interviews.
So before she even talks to him, could say our founder wrote
(26:33):
this book, right.
If you'd like a copy, I cansend it to you.
He was on Paul's podcast.
Send that to him.
The things we can see, whatthey click on, all the rest of
that, and it's amazing that theylisten to that and come
pre-sold right.
You've already had thatconversation with them.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
I think that's it Pre-sold.
I think that's it pre-sold.
I think we started with, or youstarted with, a premise that
people buy, or tell me in yourown words they buy services, you
sell products, and I thinkthat's a big problem, right?
Speaker 2 (27:03):
We're taking what works with products and saying,
oh, we can do the same thing.
It doesn't work that way.
And I always point to people ifselling professional services
works so well, then how comeErnst Young, bain Capital,
mckinsey, all of those, how comethey're not all doing Facebook
ads and funnels?
I realized that it's not allabout selling it.
(27:26):
It's about building up thatauthority, marketing to draw
people towards you.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Exactly In the time that we have left and, again, I
could probably speak to you forseveral hours and a very
enjoyable conversation, but Iwant to make sure that we're
hitting anything that'simportant to you in terms of
guest podcasting or just fromyour years of experience in
doing this.
What other things should we betalking about in the time that
we have left today?
Is there anything that wehaven't?
Speaker 2 (27:51):
discussed One of the things that's really on my heart
right now, and here we'retalking early summer 2024,
there's just been a flood ofinformation out there about
marketing and it's changingdrastically.
And you can point to AI, right?
Is AI changing at all?
Is it search?
(28:12):
The people aren't searchinganymore because they're just
going to chat GPT to get theanswer.
I would even argue are thesebig companies working for small
business or working againstsmall business?
There was just a big data leakwith Google on their search
algorithms, and the stuff thatthey were saying, compared to
(28:34):
what Rand Fishkin shared withleaked documents, is drastically
different, right?
So I'm looking at this and goingmarketing.
Maybe, like Warren Buffett said, if you don't understand it,
don't invest in it, and so I'mjust looking at that now.
I just don't want to throw mymoney at something that doesn't
make sense and chasing thisalgorithm that they promised me
(28:57):
will work.
I've been trying what they sayworks for years and just
throwing more money at the bigcompanies, and I look at it as
what works, what is pragmatic,what is practical.
That being an author gives youmore authority than having a PhD
.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
I'm glad that you said that.
I recently just saw someresearch somewhere that said 70%
of the market values orascribes more authority to an
author than they do a PhD, whichis just your typical person,
doesn't realize that, but in myexperience it's so true.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
But continue, please, your typical person doesn't
realize that, but it's in myexperience, is so true.
But continue, please.
Yeah, we've had, we've workedwith institutions Stanford, unc,
georgia Tech where they'regetting their professors out on
podcast interviews because thatgives them authority, no matter
that they've got PhDs andeverything they realize.
Oh, we got to get them onpodcasts and get them authority.
So, going back to that with,where are you going to spend
(29:52):
your marketing dollars, yourmarketing time?
I'm looking for things that arepragmatic and practical.
All right, I always say that mygrandfather was one of the best
business owners I ever knew.
God rest his soul.
He wouldn't understand theinternet today, but he would
understand how to use it.
He built his business bytalking at the Chamber of
(30:12):
Commerce and at the Country Cluband he would come and say what
is this?
I can go on podcasts and talkto all of these people over time
.
I don't have to drive any place.
All the rest of that.
He would be like I don't knowhow it works, but let me talk
and leverage other people'saudience there.
I don't know how it works, butlet me talk and leverage other
people's audience there.
So that's the big thing thatI'm looking at right now is what
(30:36):
marketing can I understand?
What's pragmatic?
What's practical?
What do I know is going to work, no matter what big data and
the big companies say yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
As we start to wrap up, I have a couple more
questions, but I wanted to askyou what is the virtual book
tour?
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Yeah, you've spent so much of your efforts to bring a
book out right Now, how are yougoing to get it out there to
the world?
And it used to be go on booktours everywhere.
That doesn't work.
Nobody's, there's notbookstores anymore.
There's something called avirtual book tour that we
started years and years ago andI can think of one client we
worked with, eric Weinheimer,right, the first blind man to
(31:14):
summit Mount Everest and go downthe Grand Canyon in a kayak,
solo, right.
He did a virtual book tourpre-COVID because it was easier
for him than flying around fromplace to place.
Now it's still easier, but it'salso more effective.
And so we work with a lot ofauthors when they bring their
book out to talk on targetedpodcasts about the book, about
(31:37):
the ideas, and they're usingthat not only to promote their
book but then also as content torepurpose.
Today we're only limited by ourcreativity and, as I see, we've
been doing it almost 10 yearsnow with 1,500 clients, had over
400 nonfiction books that we'vehelped the creative ways that
(31:57):
people are using it to get moreout of every interview as
opposed to just doing moreinterviews.
It's becoming more and morepowerful with time.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
I totally agree.
Final question so I've enjoyedthis conversation.
Question so I've enjoyed thisconversation.
I'm a huge fan of guestpodcasting and then, of course,
the marketing that comes as aresult of it.
Ultimately, I just ties backinto the couple of the themes
we've talked about.
One is that I want to have morequality conversations and I
(32:27):
want to attract people to meversus chasing people, and I
find that both the process ofbeing a guest on relevant
podcasts and then remarketingthe podcast is one of the
highest ROI marketing activitiesthat I've ever done, and so I
fully embrace it and promote it.
Do you have any final thoughtsor anything, any final advice or
(32:51):
words of wisdom for ouraudience before we wrap up?
Speaker 2 (32:55):
A couple of things.
One, first of all, thank youfor having me here.
I know the work that you putinto this and people appreciate
that, and I would say if thisjust was entertaining, all right
, that's okay, but the idea isto make it educational and it's
got to be educational withtaking action afterwards, and so
made it easy.
There's a page on our website.
(33:17):
Just go tointerviewvaletwithavcom forward
slash MDP and there's anassessment there.
Right, 10 questions Willpodcast interview marketing work
for you?
Paul mentioned the book.
Right, I sell a lot on Amazon.
I give more away.
If you want a copy of PodcastGuest Profits how to Grow your
(33:38):
Business with a TargetedInterview Strategy happy to mail
you a copy if you're in theStates or email you a copy if
you're overseas.
And then, finally, if youlisten to this and this makes a
whole lot of sense I can see howthis marketing channel would
work for me.
If you want to talk about this,I'll put my calendar scheduling
link there.
All at interviewvaletcomforward slash MDP for million
(34:05):
dollar producer.
And I guess the final word thatI would have is that our mission
at Interview Valet is topersonally introduce inspiring
thought leaders to millions ofpeople they could serve for the
betterment of all.
The people that should be heardare not the ones that are the
loudest or throwing the mostmoney at it.
(34:27):
Too often I see that it's theloudest people are out there,
not the best, and people arebeing led astray by them.
So that's one of the thingsthat I'm passionate about is to
take these humble, heroic peopleand get them out there in front
of their clients, because Iknow it'll make their life
better and it'll make theirclients' life better.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Great note to end this on.
Again, thank you so much foryour time today.
I've learned a lot from youboth in from your book as well
as if I always enjoy doing thesepodcasts is why I have them.
I get to have greatconversations with people like
yourself, so I appreciate yourtime.
Thank you, paul.
Welcome to another episode of the Million Dollar
Producer Show.
I'm your host, paul G McManus.
Today I'm here with a specialguest, mr Tom Schwab, who is the
author of podcast guest profitsgrow your business with a
targeted interview strategy, andalso the founder and CEO of a
(00:26):
company called Interview Ballet.
And I understand from you, tom,that it's not chief executive
officer, but it's chiefevangelist officer.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
That's right.
I've got some friends that wereCEOs of publicly traded
companies.
The job they do is differentthan the job I do.
My job is to evangelize for ourcategory, for our clients and
for our company, and that's whatI'm doing here and what I love
to do and really show people howthey can do it to grow their
brand and their business.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I'm super excited to have you here because we have a
very common passion when itcomes to things such as
authority, marketing, influence,speaking and especially using
guest podcasting as a vehicle tocreate that awareness for your
brand and your business.
I think I actually came acrossyou originally several years ago
(01:17):
when a colleague of mine waslooking into the idea of guest
podcasting and I recall that shegot a copy of your book.
That was the first time thatyou came on my radar and that
was several years ago.
And it's funny because there'salways this thing known as
timing right.
People don't take action,people don't buy when we want
them to buy darn it.
(01:38):
But they have ideas, problemsthat they're looking to solve
and they're looking forsolutions.
I'll try to make this concise,but our listeners know that we
focus in on helping our clientswrite and publish books as one
of those key vehicles forcreating authority in the
marketplace and awareness in themarketplace.
But then the question alwaysbecomes I've published my book,
(01:59):
now what?
And that's what I like to maybereally have as a theme for this
overall conversation that we'reabout to have about guest
podcasting and really justcreating awareness, trust in the
marketplace for things that arenot simple services, but tell
us about yourself, who is TomSchwab, and give us a sense of
who you are, and so our audiencecan get to know you a little
(02:21):
bit.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I'm an engineer by degree.
I graduated from the US NavalAcademy.
My first job out of college wasrunning nuclear power plants
and that taught me the systems,the processes, really how to run
a business.
I worked in corporate Americaand then this is my second
company.
My first company was HubSpot'sfirst e-commerce case study, was
(02:47):
HubSpot's first e-commerce casestudy and it was so different
because there we were selling aproduct right, and selling a
product is different than aservice.
In fact, I believe that yousell products, you buy services
right.
It's more that trust, theawareness, that authority,
marketing that you talk about.
And as we started to test thisoh, probably 10 years ago I
(03:08):
hypothesized I bet you could usepodcast interviews, much like
we used to use guest blogs.
Get that know like trust.
So we started to test that itworked well.
I wrote a cheesy little PDF onit.
I did a cheesy little coursethat I never took out of beta
and people came and said I justwant to be the guest, you take
(03:29):
care of the rest.
So we've been doing this nowfor going on 10 years.
The first few years peoplewould say what's a podcast?
And then it's really taken off.
We're working with thoughtleaders.
We're working with high-levelcoaches, consultants,
professional services,nonfiction authors, really to
get their message out there.
Because, no matter what all themarketing says, I don't believe
(03:53):
that we are all just one funnelaway.
I believe we're all oneconversation away.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Yeah, I agree with everything that you just said,
and it's interesting.
I got started in my currentbusiness More Clients, more Fun
back in 2015.
And it started out as aLinkedIn marketing agency and I
discovered financial advisorsand, of course, we want to get
leads and appointments with highnet worth clients.
Fair enough, and so we builtout systems on LinkedIn to
(04:22):
essentially do what at the time,I thought was all that we had
to do, which was to master thetechnology of LinkedIn, learn
the ins and outs and thenultimately schedule appointments
on their calendars.
I thought, wow, missionaccomplished, we are done.
What I discovered over the yearswas that getting people
appointments on their calendar,when it comes to a bit of a cold
(04:43):
approach, is doable, but theclose rate can be abysmal if
you've not, in advance, builtout what I would call that
authority positioning.
And so, just again, just toexpand a little bit on terms of
our evolution and then we'll tiethis into your sweet spot is
(05:04):
that a few years ago maybe three, four years ago now I decided
okay, what's going on here?
How do I fix this?
I'm not an engineer by trade,but I guess I think analytically
when it comes to solvingproblems.
And it was how can we betterposition our clients so that
when they're having that firstconversation with a prospect,
they don't have to try to sellthemselves as much.
(05:26):
In other words, we want toreverse that order.
So instead of that push, pushsale, it's really much more of
an attraction based approach.
And that led us to, or that ledme to, coming up with what I
call the short book formula,which is a way to lead with a
book, to establish interest inthe problems that an advisor
helps solve, the target audience, et cetera, and that
(05:49):
positioning we found to betremendously more valuable than
simply just getting people,leads and appointments.
I'm sure you have thoughtsabout this, given what you've
done and what you do, so I'lljust flip it over to you and,
just leading with that premiseMaybe, what are your thoughts
there?
Speaker 2 (06:04):
I was going to say people are either going to agree
with us or disagree.
Either way, I'm fine with that.
I look at that as my ownexperience, right, being
probably your ideal customer,not in the financial services
industry, but professionalservices and I just look in.
So many of these tactics thatwe have are getting more
efficient but less effective.
(06:26):
Right In the time we've beentalking here, you could send out
a million cold emails butthey're not going to do anything
.
From that standpoint, you needthat authority and sometimes
it's not a perfect engineeredsystem.
Right, you talked aboutsomebody had gotten my book and
had talked about that.
Right, sometimes it's more ofserendipity, but you know that
(06:49):
it works.
And I think often now there'sthis push to be oh, we've got to
use more technology, moreeverything.
I remember reading a book yearsago called Click Sand how
digital marketing is ruiningyour business, and Bill Troy
nailed it years ago when he saidwhales don't click and big fish
(07:09):
don't swim through funnels.
Right, they're not just looking, scrolling on their social
media just to see what they canbuy from you.
No, it takes a conversation andtoday more than ever, it's
easier to do that through a book, a print-on-demand book, an
audio book, through publicspeaking, through webinars,
(07:31):
through stages and those couldbe physical stages or digital
stages.
And, paul, I got to admit Iwrote a book, but my roommate
from college swore that he wasgoing to give it a one-star
review.
He was going to give it aone-star review and say worst
coloring book ever.
He proofread all of my papersat the academy.
(07:53):
He couldn't believe thatEnglish was my first language or
that I had actually graduatedfrom high school.
I'm not a great writer and Iwould say that it's come with
time, but I'd much rather talkand get the ideas out that way,
and I think that's why today,there's no better time to be
alive.
Right, you can talk and thenyou can transcribe.
(08:15):
You can have a great ghostwriter or a great team and a
partner put that together in aformat that makes it a great
book.
Even now, with podcasts, right,90% of podcasts have video.
So, while we'll call it apodcast, there's probably
somebody listening and watchingon YouTube and they're like it's
(08:36):
not a podcast, it's a video.
I don't care what you call it,just so long as people get to
know you Just a lot of things Iwanna unpack there.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
One is that's always been our process for what we do
with our clients in terms ofhelping them become published
authors is that our basicpremise is that they're not
writers, right, these areexperienced financial advisors
who have spent years oftentimesdoing what they do.
They have a ton of stories,they're funny, they know how to
(09:05):
build relationships with clients, and they do all this very
naturally in person when they'retalking to clients and the idea
is okay, how do you capture thebest of all of that and then
package it into a book that canthen be and I call it a
salesperson in print, meaningthat you can put it out there in
advance and let your idealclients judge whether or not
(09:28):
that it's a good fit, and then,ultimately, they come to you.
I would also want to pick up onone more thing.
I heard you say that you'reoftentimes just a conversation
away, and I can validate that,because, picking up on the story
about how I first came acrossyou and just in this big world
that we live in, is that someonementioned your book because it
was specific about the topic ofguest podcasting, and this was
(09:48):
years ago.
And then I want to say, in thelast six months maybe six to 12
months I was a guest on apodcast by a gentleman named
Matt Halloran, who I know is amutual colleague or friend of
ours, and I was asking him aboutguest podcasting and say I
think guest podcasting is great,I just want to do more of them.
(10:09):
And he mentioned your name andyour company.
I'm like, okay, I'll go checkthem out.
That really underscores gettingyour banner out there in terms
of your expertise and what youdo and I would say in this way,
in the form of a book, butultimately being just that one
conversation away from your nextclient, and I shortly after,
(10:29):
scheduled my call with your teamand I'm now a happy client of
Interview Valet.
It's interesting.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Well, we say one conversation, as you described
it there, we had lots ofconversations before we had that
sales conversation.
Right, you had the conversationwith Matt and he had shared
that information with you.
I would argue it's aconversation that you had.
Reading the book, you went tothe website, you listened to
(10:56):
podcast interviews, so there wasthese lots of mini
conversations, so that whensomebody actually calls you for
a, if you want to call it asales call, it's interesting
because if they've already readyour book, if they've already
heard your podcast, they'vealready self-selected right,
they've turned you up or turnedyou off.
(11:16):
It's more of a qualificationcall and I love that because, at
the end of the day, I don'twant more leads, right,
everybody's trying to sell me.
Oh, more leads.
We can get you 20 conversationsa day.
We're not optimizing for moresales or just more leads.
We're optimizing for profits.
(11:37):
And that's happy clients, right?
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Clients that are so thrilled with what you do, the
results that you bring, thatthey gladly give you their money
and also give you referrals,also, right, it really comes
down to and I just experiencedthis in multiple ways in this
past month the best marketingthat you can do, I believe, is
word of mouth marketing.
And how do you do word of mouthmarketing at scale?
(12:02):
I think what we're talkingabout is an example of that.
I'll share a couple other quickexamples.
Six months or so, I have thisdigital business and so day to
day, I'm in my apartment, Idon't go outside.
I'm a little bit of a shut in.
I say that half jokingly, butoccasionally I'll go to a
conference, and I went to twoconferences this month and last
month, and they were amazing.
(12:22):
I got a speaking slot.
I had my book.
It was filled with my idealclients, I had ambitious goals
and I hit them and Ioverachieved them, and the
through line to me is that andthis has been my experience in
running my own business since2015, but also in working with
hundreds and hundreds offinancial advisors and it really
validates, I think, everythingthat you're saying the most
(12:44):
potent way to create awarenessand attract your ideal clients
is a combination of authority orsubject matter, expertise and
speaking can be done on thestage, and arguably that might
be the best way in person,especially if you're around your
ideal clients, because there'sa certain level of energy there.
The second best way in thisvirtual, online digital world
(13:08):
that we live in, I would argue,is guest podcasting.
And I'll give you my hypothesisand I didn't come to this just
by wanting it to be so, Iactually came to this conclusion
by experience is that I've doneplenty of online webinars.
This past year.
I even hired a company to fillup my webinar for me and I
started that process superexcited by wow, all these people
(13:30):
that should be a great fit andthey're in this webinar.
And the results of that weredisappointing.
That they were okay, I guess,at best, but overall the webinar
strategy, which I thought wouldwork really well, was a little
bit disappointing.
And then, at the same time,over the past I'll say year,
plus one to two years I alsostarted doing guest podcasting
where I would go on not just anypodcast, and I think this is
(13:53):
key and really something thatwas a writer downer, as they say
, is that you need to be on theright podcast, so you need to be
on the podcast where your idealclients listen to that host.
And over the past year, plusoutside of live events.
Guest podcasting has become thenumber one driver for my
(14:13):
business.
It's become where I'll go on apodcast and I can predict,
depending on the size of thepodcast, that within days or
weeks, even of it being released, I'm going to have a number of
appointments already on mycalendar scheduled.
And it's just amazing becausethis is my first time to talk to
them.
I know nothing about them,right, other than I Googled them
(14:34):
five minutes before the meetingand they already know enough
about me because they heard meon this podcast.
I call it a one-to-manyreferral because they listen to
this podcast, so they alreadyhave a relationship with the
host and it becomes a softendorsement because, even though
the host isn't saying I endorsethis person, implicit they are
because they're a guest on thepodcast and they want them to
look good, they want you to lookgood, et cetera.
(14:55):
I'm just attracting super highquality ideal prospects who show
up and already know enoughabout me in advance of that call
so that I'm able to have areally impactful conversation
and we can quickly determineokay, is this something that we
should continue the conversationor not?
And typically the answer is yesbecause they know enough.
(15:16):
And then by quote, unquoteclose rate is astronomical it's
80%, and this is within one totwo calls and just I think that
was that's like my view of themagic of guest podcasting.
But I'll just pause there andflip it over to you and just
have you build off of that,based on your own experience and
thoughts.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
My experience and I have seen over the years there's
extroverts and introverts and Igo to those networking events
or the live events, the bigballroom with the hors d'oeuvres
and the alcohol and way, waytoo much noise.
I go there and I find that Idon't have meaningful
conversations and it just drawsmy energy.
(15:52):
It's so tiring for me as anintrovert.
I look at it and I find that Idon't have meaningful
conversations and it just drawsmy energy.
It's so tiring for me as anintrovert.
I look at it and I'm like Ilove to have meaningful
conversations, I love to haveone-on-one conversations, and I
don't think I'm in my best withthe masses there, but I think I
can shine one-on-one and so forme I find that doing the podcast
interviews is easier, moreimpactful, I learn more from it
(16:17):
and I think it warms up theclients there.
I think of all of the liveevents that I went to and I came
back with a stack of businesscards and nobody called me and I
didn't call them and it was awasted time.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
I can play an extrovert on TV, so to speak,
but naturally I'm an introvertand after too many conversations
I have to go away and hide andget recharged and just building
off what you said.
That's where I want qualityconversations, that I have a
reasonable expectation that thisis a good use of my time and
that the next I'm going to getcertain results from this, and
so I totally agree with that.
I want to shift gears slightly,so I'm gonna give you my
(16:54):
hypothesis around something andthen tell me what your thoughts
are.
I think authoring a book isextremely valuable.
I think guest podcasting isextremely valuable.
I also think having yourpodcast, your own podcast, can
be very valuable, and the orderthat I've come up with I think
people get this wrong is that inmy formulation, I would say
(17:17):
that you want to start withauthoring a book.
Now why?
Part of it is just thatcredibility.
Part of it is formulating yourthoughts.
The process we take peoplethrough it's typically over six
coaching calls and we just getthem to really get super focused
on all the value and thestories and everything they've
done, and we encapsulate thatinto a book so that then they
(17:38):
have this thing that they canput out into the world.
And secondly, I would recommendpeople that they look at being
a guest on podcasts, instead ofhosting their own podcasts, as
the next natural step.
And I'll just give a couple ofreasons.
Why is that?
When you have your own podcast,it has its place, but it's hard
work.
It's really hard work if you doit consistently and you really
(18:00):
want to do a good job andultimately, you're responsible
for building the audience forthe most part, whereas with
guest podcasting and what reallywhat most people want is they
don't necessarily want to playthe role of the host and the
interviewer and be thought, askgood questions.
They want to go tell their story.
They wouldn't be like, hey, Ijust wrote this book and I want
to tell people about it.
Right, it's all about me, whichI love.
I love guest podcasting, butyou're also leveraging other
(18:22):
people's audiences.
You're leveraging the work thatthey've put in for years and
building these audiences andbuilding relationship, and now
you're tapping into thataudience and I think that's one
of the reasons that I know I'mseeing such great results is
that I'm taking the authorityI've built through my book.
I'm working with companies likeyours to get scheduled on
(18:42):
podcasts and then I'm reapingthe rewards.
How did you react or expandupon that from your experience?
Speaker 2 (18:50):
I think you're right in that it's not an either or
right.
It's not which one should I do,but which order should I do
that in.
And I think for me, if I hadfound somebody like you, I think
I would have had the book outmuch sooner, because I had to
talk on podcasts to process myideas, to process my stories,
(19:10):
and after I had talked itthrough enough, then I was like,
oh yeah, I can put all of thistogether.
So that's the way I did it.
Then, once somebody comes outwith a book, they're just like
let's, if you build it, theywill not come.
You've got to go out there andtalk about that and reference
back.
Should you be a guest or a host?
I don't think it's an either,or it's almost.
Should I be a Uber driver or anUber passenger?
(19:31):
Same platform but differentgoals.
So I think when you're a guest,that's a great way to go out
and get new leads, get newexposure, get new followers, new
SEO backlinks, new content thatyou can use in your marketing
to nurture your current leads,to nurture past clients, to show
(19:53):
them what new things you'reworking on.
So that's a great way to dothat.
Now, being a host, like you saidthat is a commitment.
Most podcasts die within thefirst 10 episodes.
It goes from being somethingyou're excited about to
something you're embarrassedabout.
So I always look at being ahost is a great way to nurture
your current leads, nurture yourcurrent clients, but make sure
(20:18):
that you commit to it for a year.
To me I'm an engineer, right, Ialways want to get more out by
putting less in, and it soundsharsh to do this on a podcast
where you're doing all the hardwork.
Right now, paul is doing thevast majority of the work and I
would argue I'll probably getthe vast majority of the benefit
.
So thanks, paul.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Yeah, my pleasure.
Tell us about once you've beena guest on a podcast.
What should you be thinkingabout and doing?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
When people come to us, no one wants to be a guest
on a podcast, so we try to go.
Look at that, it's okay.
So what are you trying toaccomplish?
Is it to launch a book?
Is it for sales?
Is it to get a keynote speakingbusiness?
There's so many different waysyou can use this.
Is it to build content thatyour marketing team can use in
(21:05):
your email and your social media?
So we try to look at that firstand start with the end in mind
of the seven habits of highlyeffective people.
So first and start with the endin mind of the seven habits of
highly effective people.
So we'll start with that andsay what are you trying to do?
Who do you want to talk with?
You can't say enough of theright things to the wrong people
.
And then, once we're on thepodcast, what do you want to
talk about?
(21:26):
What are the issues, what arethe pain points that your
clients have that you canaddress there?
What stories are you going totell?
And, at the end, what are yougoing to help people with for
their next steps?
I hear so many people go on apodcast interview and they've
got this wonderful conversation.
There's no point to it.
(21:47):
There was no intention, right,and there was no calls to action
at the end, they didn't make iteasy for people to go to the
next thing.
And then they're wondering whydidn't this work?
It's like why?
Because you went fishingwithout a fishing pole, without
a hook, not knowing what kind offish you were going after oh
(22:07):
and, by the way, you were in aswimming pool, so trying to work
back into it.
And then, even after you'retalking about controlling the
crowd, you want to talk tocontrolling the conversions.
Right, repurpose the episode.
You can reach all of thosepeople that didn't even listen
(22:38):
to the podcast.
And it's interesting thatpeople always say I've got a
content creation problem.
No, you don't right.
You're doing as much contentcreation as Gary Vee or Tony
Robbins any of those.
The difference is they'recapturing it and repurposing it
and putting it out there.
So many of us are just I haveto write more blogs, I have to
(23:00):
do more videos.
I got to do more podcastinterviews.
No, don't do more with what youhave, and that's something that
we help our clients with too.
Slice it and dice it.
You can get a month's worth ofcontent from every interview.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
I'll share one more tidbit from my experience, in
that as part of my sales processwhether it's on my podcast or
in a guest podcast, oftentimesin addition to my book, I'll
take, I'll curate, a couple ofkey podcasts that I've done and
I will send that to a prospectas part of the, as part of the
steps.
So we typically will have afirst call, we'll make sure
there's an opportunity for bothof us to move forward and in
between, I'll typically send theperson a copy of my book but
(23:39):
also curate maybe one or twopodcasts as like extra bonus
homework, if you will.
I ask the person to read mybook, which can take maybe an
hour, but I also say, hey,here's some more material.
And what I find is that thebest prospects are the ones that
are learners and they devourthis material, and so this is
part of the magic behind my ownsales system in terms of getting
(24:00):
80% higher close rates in oneto two calls is that they're out
there consuming this contentthat I've created and it's just
a, you know, tie a bow on that.
How have I created it?
It's either through being aguest on certain podcasts or
having my podcast, whichever one, but I'm taking that and now
I'm very strategically puttingit out there's part of both my
marketing and sales process, solove to have you expand upon
(24:23):
that anywhere you'd like to.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
You're doing the right things on that right,
Doing more with every interviewas opposed to just doing more
interview and leading with value.
And you say personalization andAI personalization.
When I get those, hey, Tom, wenoticed you live in Kalamazoo
and are the CEO of this.
You just scraped my LinkedInand I think people have this.
(24:48):
I heard somebody refer to it astrust deficit disorder so their
guard is up from the verybeginning that we all think it's
AI and a scam.
Search engines do, and so dopeople.
So what can you do to make surethat it's really individuals?
And I love how you talk aboutthat.
And then, after this interviewgoes live, I can see going
(25:09):
through my database in LinkedInand looking for common
connections between Paul andmyself, and chances are they're
probably in the financialindustry.
They may not have caught thepodcast, but to be able to say,
hey, I was just had the honor ofbeing on Million Dollar
Producers.
We talked about how financialprofessionals can leverage
(25:32):
targeted podcast interviews.
I thought you'd be interestedin this right.
They know that that is a humanright.
It's two humans talking aboutthis and it's the difference too
between, I think today,information and knowledge.
Right, If I want an answer forsomething, I can Google it, I
can ask chat, GPT that'sinformation.
(25:53):
But knowledge, the thing that'shappening now opinions,
experience shares you're onlygoing to get that from two
people talking and I thinkyou're doing the right things.
The other thing is that oftennow I'm the chief evangelist
officer and I got to say we'vegot a team that does things
better than I do.
Right, my microphone makes mesound good, my team makes me
(26:13):
look good.
So often it's Lucina, our seniorcustomer success manager,
that's talking to people and sowhen she sees someone comes in
and they're like oh, they're afinancial advisor, they're in
the financial professionalservices.
She knows all of my interviews.
So before she even talks to him, could say our founder wrote
(26:33):
this book, right.
If you'd like a copy, I cansend it to you.
He was on Paul's podcast.
Send that to him.
The things we can see, whatthey click on, all the rest of
that, and it's amazing that theylisten to that and come
pre-sold right.
You've already had thatconversation with them.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
I think that's it Pre-sold.
I think that's it pre-sold.
I think we started with, or youstarted with, a premise that
people buy, or tell me in yourown words they buy services, you
sell products, and I thinkthat's a big problem, right?
Speaker 2 (27:03):
We're taking what works with products and saying,
oh, we can do the same thing.
It doesn't work that way.
And I always point to people ifselling professional services
works so well, then how comeErnst Young, bain Capital,
mckinsey, all of those, how comethey're not all doing Facebook
ads and funnels?
I realized that it's not allabout selling it.
(27:26):
It's about building up thatauthority, marketing to draw
people towards you.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Exactly In the time that we have left and, again, I
could probably speak to you forseveral hours and a very
enjoyable conversation, but Iwant to make sure that we're
hitting anything that'simportant to you in terms of
guest podcasting or just fromyour years of experience in
doing this.
What other things should we betalking about in the time that
we have left today?
Is there anything that wehaven't?
Speaker 2 (27:51):
discussed One of the things that's really on my heart
right now, and here we'retalking early summer 2024,
there's just been a flood ofinformation out there about
marketing and it's changingdrastically.
And you can point to AI, right?
Is AI changing at all?
Is it search?
(28:12):
The people aren't searchinganymore because they're just
going to chat GPT to get theanswer.
I would even argue are thesebig companies working for small
business or working againstsmall business?
There was just a big data leakwith Google on their search
algorithms, and the stuff thatthey were saying, compared to
(28:34):
what Rand Fishkin shared withleaked documents, is drastically
different, right?
So I'm looking at this and goingmarketing.
Maybe, like Warren Buffett said, if you don't understand it,
don't invest in it, and so I'mjust looking at that now.
I just don't want to throw mymoney at something that doesn't
make sense and chasing thisalgorithm that they promised me
(28:57):
will work.
I've been trying what they sayworks for years and just
throwing more money at the bigcompanies, and I look at it as
what works, what is pragmatic,what is practical.
That being an author gives youmore authority than having a PhD
.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
I'm glad that you said that.
I recently just saw someresearch somewhere that said 70%
of the market values orascribes more authority to an
author than they do a PhD, whichis just your typical person,
doesn't realize that, but in myexperience it's so true.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
But continue, please, your typical person doesn't
realize that, but it's in myexperience, is so true.
But continue, please.
Yeah, we've had, we've workedwith institutions Stanford, unc,
georgia Tech where they'regetting their professors out on
podcast interviews because thatgives them authority, no matter
that they've got PhDs andeverything they realize.
Oh, we got to get them onpodcasts and get them authority.
So, going back to that with,where are you going to spend
(29:52):
your marketing dollars, yourmarketing time?
I'm looking for things that arepragmatic and practical.
All right, I always say that mygrandfather was one of the best
business owners I ever knew.
God rest his soul.
He wouldn't understand theinternet today, but he would
understand how to use it.
He built his business bytalking at the Chamber of
(30:12):
Commerce and at the Country Cluband he would come and say what
is this?
I can go on podcasts and talkto all of these people over time
.
I don't have to drive any place.
All the rest of that.
He would be like I don't knowhow it works, but let me talk
and leverage other people'saudience there.
I don't know how it works, butlet me talk and leverage other
people's audience there.
So that's the big thing thatI'm looking at right now is what
(30:36):
marketing can I understand?
What's pragmatic?
What's practical?
What do I know is going to work, no matter what big data and
the big companies say yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
As we start to wrap up, I have a couple more
questions, but I wanted to askyou what is the virtual book
tour?
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Yeah, you've spent so much of your efforts to bring a
book out right Now, how are yougoing to get it out there to
the world?
And it used to be go on booktours everywhere.
That doesn't work.
Nobody's, there's notbookstores anymore.
There's something called avirtual book tour that we
started years and years ago andI can think of one client we
worked with, eric Weinheimer,right, the first blind man to
(31:14):
summit Mount Everest and go downthe Grand Canyon in a kayak,
solo, right.
He did a virtual book tourpre-COVID because it was easier
for him than flying around fromplace to place.
Now it's still easier, but it'salso more effective.
And so we work with a lot ofauthors when they bring their
book out to talk on targetedpodcasts about the book, about
(31:37):
the ideas, and they're usingthat not only to promote their
book but then also as content torepurpose.
Today we're only limited by ourcreativity and, as I see, we've
been doing it almost 10 yearsnow with 1,500 clients, had over
400 nonfiction books that we'vehelped the creative ways that
(31:57):
people are using it to get moreout of every interview as
opposed to just doing moreinterviews.
It's becoming more and morepowerful with time.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
I totally agree.
Final question so I've enjoyedthis conversation.
Question so I've enjoyed thisconversation.
I'm a huge fan of guestpodcasting and then, of course,
the marketing that comes as aresult of it.
Ultimately, I just ties backinto the couple of the themes
we've talked about.
One is that I want to have morequality conversations and I
(32:27):
want to attract people to meversus chasing people, and I
find that both the process ofbeing a guest on relevant
podcasts and then remarketingthe podcast is one of the
highest ROI marketing activitiesthat I've ever done, and so I
fully embrace it and promote it.
Do you have any final thoughtsor anything, any final advice or
(32:51):
words of wisdom for ouraudience before we wrap up?
Speaker 2 (32:55):
A couple of things.
One, first of all, thank youfor having me here.
I know the work that you putinto this and people appreciate
that, and I would say if thisjust was entertaining, all right
, that's okay, but the idea isto make it educational and it's
got to be educational withtaking action afterwards, and so
made it easy.
There's a page on our website.
(33:17):
Just go tointerviewvaletwithavcom forward
slash MDP and there's anassessment there.
Right, 10 questions Willpodcast interview marketing work
for you?
Paul mentioned the book.
Right, I sell a lot on Amazon.
I give more away.
If you want a copy of PodcastGuest Profits how to Grow your
(33:38):
Business with a TargetedInterview Strategy happy to mail
you a copy if you're in theStates or email you a copy if
you're overseas.
And then, finally, if youlisten to this and this makes a
whole lot of sense I can see howthis marketing channel would
work for me.
If you want to talk about this,I'll put my calendar scheduling
link there.
All at interviewvaletcomforward slash MDP for million
(34:05):
dollar producer.
And I guess the final word thatI would have is that our mission
at Interview Valet is topersonally introduce inspiring
thought leaders to millions ofpeople they could serve for the
betterment of all.
The people that should be heardare not the ones that are the
loudest or throwing the mostmoney at it.
(34:27):
Too often I see that it's theloudest people are out there,
not the best, and people arebeing led astray by them.
So that's one of the thingsthat I'm passionate about is to
take these humble, heroic peopleand get them out there in front
of their clients, because Iknow it'll make their life
better and it'll make theirclients' life better.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Great note to end this on.
Again, thank you so much foryour time today.
I've learned a lot from youboth in from your book as well
as if I always enjoy doing thesepodcasts is why I have them.
I get to have greatconversations with people like
yourself, so I appreciate yourtime.
Thank you, paul.
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