December 2, 2024 • 45 mins
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Meeting Erica Butler at the Rose Retreat in 2021 was a serendipitous moment that set the stage for a transformative journey in understanding eating disorders. This episode takes you through our personal experiences, focusing on the struggle of balancing health with the triggers of fitness apps like MyFitnessPal. Erica and I open our hearts to sharing stories of finding suitable support systems and the crucial realization that food doesn't need to carry moral weight—it can simply be food.
The conversation with Erica provides deep insights into the nuanced relationship between nutrition guidance and eating disorders. We tackle complex topics such as the disconnection from one's body's energy needs and how some traditional dietary programs can inadvertently heighten food-related anxiety. Our dialogue highlights the need for sensitive, personalized strategies that foster a positive outlook on food while addressing co-occurring conditions like autoimmune issues. This episode emphasizes a recovery approach that nurtures mental and physical well-being without succumbing to societal standards.
As we shift the focus from external appearances to inner wellness, we embrace the empowering concepts of body neutrality and self-care. Through personal stories, we explore moving away from associating self-worth with appearance and examining the societal pressures that shape our views on beauty. The conversation also delves into generational perspectives on body image and the effects of evolving beauty standards. We aim to inspire a healthier, happier lifestyle, encouraging listeners to prioritize how they feel over how they look and setting a positive path for future generations.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, welcome to Mind your Heart Podcast, your
favorite corner of the internetwhere we chat about all things
mental health.
I'm Emily.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
And I'm Trina.
Together, we're like yourreal-life Lorelai and Rory
Gilmore.
Each week, we'll bring you realconversations about the world
of mental health and we willpeel back layers on topics like
anxiety, depression and muchmore.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
We're here to chat with you about the tough stuff,
the everyday stuff andeverything in between.
So grab your emotional supportwater bottle I know we have ours
.
Find your comfiest chair orkeep your eyes on the road and
let's get into it.
Are you ready, mom?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Absolutely.
Join us as we mind our heartsand hopefully make minding yours
a little easier.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
How are you?
How are you doing?
We haven't talked in a while.
Erica, this is my mom.
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
It's wonderful to meet you, so nice to meet you.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
This is yes, I was so looking forward to this.
It's so good to see you again.
It was interesting.
I was telling my husband I'm ona podcast today and he was like
, oh, like, how did you gethooked up with that?
And I was telling him about theRose Retreat and how we met and
it just is a cool full circlemoment to be speaking with you
(01:16):
both today.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah Well, let's just like,let's just get started.
I kind of want to tell thatstory of how we did meet because
I feel like that was for me.
That was such a pivotal momentin my journey with an eating
disorder and learning how tolove myself.
(01:38):
So, yeah, let's just start.
Welcome to the Mind your Heartpodcast.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
I'm.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Emily and mom, I'm Trina.
Oh, am I frozen?
You're frozen.
Of course I'm frozen.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
We can still hear you , but you're.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Okay, at least I'm like smiling while frozen.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yes, it didn't catch you in an awkward yeah, an
awkward facial, oh man okay,wait, are we good?
Speaker 3 (02:12):
can you see me okay?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
oh, okay.
Well, this is erica butlerwelcome welcome, erica um, I'm
so excited to have you today.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Um, we were just talking about how we met, which
is like, really, it's kind of awild story.
I feel like, um, excuse me,like whenever I'm there's a
couple people that I've talkedto where I'm like, oh, the story
of how we met is so cool, um,and I just feel like it was
meant to be, like it wassupposed to happen that way.
(02:46):
I don't know what is happeningwith my camera, but apparently I
just keep freezing.
So Erica and I met when whatyear was that?
I don't even remember what yearit was, I believe that was 2022
or 2021.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
It was the fall.
Yes, we were at the RoseRetreat.
I was on a panel.
You were in attendance.
We met the night before, though, at that smaller event right?
Speaker 3 (03:20):
No, no, we met the day of the retreat at the end
like before.
I think it was like rightbefore you were like leaving,
because it was like after theretreat was over.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
Yes, because we had the Q&A panel and I said I'll
stick around if anyone wants tocome up and chat.
And you were one of thosepeople.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Yeah, yeah, and back then I feel like it was 2021.
I think it was 2021.
Yeah, yeah, and back then Ifeel like it was 2021.
I think it was 2021.
Yeah, Back in 2021, I wasworking at the time with like a
fitness coach and they had melike taking pictures of like my
(04:02):
progress and like not being ableto like eat a lot of certain
things and like I was trackingcalories.
That was when I was like reallyin my fitness pal, which, like
for anyone who has experiencedan eating disorder, that that's
(04:22):
like often brought up of likethat's a, that's a trigger, Um,
and I just didn't know like whatI was doing.
Really Like I was trying reallyhard to be healthy but, um, it
was like I was.
I just wasn't where I should be.
I wasn't with the people thatwere educated in the way that I
(04:44):
needed them to be.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
That's what stood out to me when we were first
talking, because you were sayingthings like hey, I'm working
with this coach and I'm you know, I I had an eating disorder and
I've dealt with an eatingdisorder and I think it's still
being activated, but I'm tryingto be healthy.
And you were trying to makesense of those two things at the
(05:08):
time and it was, yeah, and evenjust feeling like you, we know,
in when you're recovering froman eating disorder, like part of
that is I need some structure,I need to understand what my
body needs to eat and what itneeds to be to nourish and
sustained, and so it's like thatprogram was providing it for
(05:28):
you, but it was also incitingyour eating disorder at the same
time and you were just so stuckLike you knew it wasn't the
right thing, but you didn't knowwhat was and you weren't sure
what you were looking for.
But you were looking forsomething.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yeah, for sure, and I remember that.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
What's a fitness pal?
Is that what you call it, my?
Speaker 3 (05:46):
fitness pal, my fitness pal.
Yeah, it's basically an applike where you can track, like
calories and like what you'reeating and like, put it all in
and it shows you, like, all thenumbers with it.
Yeah which, like is fine forpeople who are not experiencing
(06:07):
an eating disorder and like cantrack that in.
Whenever I started working withyou, erica, I was, like I can't
eat this, like this is bad.
I remember like the biggestshift for me and working
(06:34):
together was like understandingthat, like food can just be food
and that, like there, itdoesn't have to be good or bad,
so like that was a huge likeWhoa does things, things for us,
but the morality.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
We're removing the morality.
Like food has certainproperties, that does certain
things you know we would havetalked about.
Like you need protein to breakdown an amino acid which is
precursor for yourneurotransmitters and it's
important for muscle functionand endocrine function.
When carbohydrates you need thebroken down glucose take across
the blood brain barrier foryour energy, for your muscles,
(07:08):
for, you know, fitness, forliving life.
Like it was just there's allfatty acids, like all these
purposes, but that like this isgood, this is bad, it has to fit
into this narrow range that Ihave for today.
And it was just.
It was leaving you at odds withwhat you were figuring out
about yourself.
It was so.
It was like this external thing, like restricting what you were
trying to figure out inyourself.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
For sure.
Yeah, and I think, like now,now, like where I am, I'm like I
even like catch like peoplethat I'm with and they're like,
oh, I can't have this, it's bad.
And I was like, why is it bad?
Like now I'm like is it bad oris it just like maybe we like
don't eat it every single daybreakfast, lunch and dinner,
like.
So yeah, that was definitely,it was a.
It was a whole lot of like Iwas.
I was in a state of confusionand also like just searching for
(08:02):
something that I didn't reallyknow like where to find it.
Um, because I feel like, I feellike the resources for people
who are experiencing an eatingdisorder are not there.
I feel like they're not talkedabout, like, they're not like
here, they are for you.
You know what I mean.
So I I remember like being atthe conference and I was waiting
(08:28):
in line for the bathroom, andthat's when I met Mick and I
have been following Mick for along time and I started talking
to her and I was like I knowwe're in the line for the
bathroom, but I'm like it'sreally, really cool to meet you
and also like do you mind if Itell you a little bit of like
(08:50):
what's happening.
And I was telling her and I juststarted crying and I was like I
know this isn't what I'msupposed to be doing.
And she was like so, like youcan listen to like your
intuition, like you, you knowthat this isn't healthy for you.
And I was like, but I don'treally know, like what to do.
And she was like well, erica,who is here and she's gonna be
(09:14):
on a panel, she's like she haslike changed my life.
And I was like okay, then Ineed to talk to her.
Like yesterday.
So I remember like walking upto you and being like I don't
know what I need and I don'tknow what this looks like, but
here is what I have.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
So yeah that's how.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
That's how we met.
That's how it started.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Yes, well, and I think you know, with the
MyFitnessPal aspect and you know, trying to dial in on nutrition
and calculate everything andfollow it, it's like again, when
you've had an eating disorder,you lose like what you're, you
lose touch with, likeunderstanding your body's energy
needs.
What kind of what's a breakfastlook like for me?
(10:00):
What's a lunch look like for me?
Because eating disorders arecharacterized by fear of food
and anxiety around food andoverwhelm of decision-making
around food.
So that's where I think you got, you got trapped, where you're
like okay, I need this to tellme what to eat, I will follow
this program.
But at the same time, therewere yeah, there were just
(10:20):
because eating disorders in andof themselves can be out of line
with what else matters to youin your life.
Like you, outside of your eatingdisorder, really solid
foundation.
You have wonderful partner,wonderful family faith, a good
career, good confidence inyourself, except for around food
.
And so it's like I just feellike you were like trying to
(10:40):
find a way to bring those thingstogether.
And that's where you know I wastelling you I'm like you do
need some structure, you do needsome guidance and you know,
without saying like, oh, youjust need it from me, but no,
you need it from someone thatdoes understand eating disorders
, because that structure andeating is temporary.
I doubt now you're like countingout your grams of anything, but
you know, once upon a time wewould have been talking about,
(11:03):
like gosh, you know, you reallyshould add something on the side
with that for your lunch.
Or man, you know, I do thinkyou need some of those foods to
build up in your day.
Or, oh my gosh, yeah, when yougo to your family's house for
Thanksgiving, like yeah, ofcourse you're going to, you know
, dessert can be part of yourafternoon snack, but it can also
just be just for joy and forfun and for part of the holiday.
(11:26):
So just sounds like we had somuch to talk about ahead.
We didn't know it yet.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Yeah, no for sure.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
I have a question so, um, so do you specifically work
with people that have had okay,that's so eating disorders?
So that is your especially,cause I, I'm, I'm just curious
how it's, how, like, what issomething that you approach
differently?
Speaker 4 (11:47):
Because, because of that, yes, there's more this
sensitivity to the internalthoughts and anxieties that
eating disorders have.
So, for example, maybe, likewhen Emily was working with that
training program, they wouldhave said you need to have six
(12:08):
ounces of turkey and plug itinto your lunch and da, da, da,
da.
And her you know and track that, and it would have been the
calories and the grams and shewould have been eating disorders
can tend to create like anobsessiveness as well around
food.
A lot of that's because of thatbiological deprivation that's
happening in the body and justthe specific neural pathways
(12:29):
that happen in eating disorders.
So it so it makes someonesusceptible to really almost
obsessing too much into beingoverly focused on it.
And so, while on one hand, weneed to like provide some
guidance and structure, so Imight've been talking to her
about like hey, like what aresome sources of protein that you
can put with your lunch, and wemight've been talking about
(12:49):
like the positive attributes,attributes of protein or the
things that it does for us,because I have that sensitivity
of we're eliminating the fear,we're creating abundance, not
scarcity, but we're stillproviding some guidance, and so
I wouldn't say it's always liketotally at odds with what we
might see, but it's more thatmindset, that approach Plus.
(13:10):
What's the end game, what's theoutcome?
So, someone with an eatingdisorder typically their goal is
to not be obsessed with foodand not think about food all the
time.
They might also be like, well,I would love to have a body
composition change or some otherthings, but we have to set that
aside for the time being andsay, hey, we've really got to
focus on recovering from youreating disorder.
So then you know the.
(13:30):
You know knowing how muchprotein you have at lunch is in
service of meeting your energyneeds and tolerating that
anxiety, overcoming that fear ofeating that food.
And that's the recovery aspect,whereas you know well, maybe
more of a someone else that hasa completely different goal
around why they would be payingattention to and changing any of
(13:52):
the things they're doing withfood.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Okay, that that makes sense.
I yeah that.
I guess that part has alwayskind of confused me a little bit
, but hearing that that makessense, so thank you Absolutely
Great question.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
Great question, cause I think that, yeah, I think
there is a lot of um, uh,misunderstanding.
You know, like, like Emily, likeyou were saying you're like I
know that I need some help withfood, but food is also such a
loaded subject for me, like Idon't know like what to do, to
like find you know a way to getthrough this, and um, and so,
(14:26):
yeah, we just have a differentand we're, as a dietician that
works with eating disorders,like I might be working with
someone on their eating disorderand something else like me, and
maybe you're dealing with somegastrointestinal issues or, and
maybe you have an autoimmunecondition or, and there might be
something else going on.
But there's just that, thatsensitivity and that focus of
hey, there's this co-occurringcondition that might, you know,
(14:51):
cause, cause, some issues.
Another example of that is Ihave a client right now who he
has type one diabetes and hejust finished running a marathon
and has an eating disorder, andso you know, what we had to
focus on is like, okay, likefueling blood sugar regulation,
planning out for his athleticendeavors, but also like how can
(15:13):
he live, how can he live alittle, how can he enjoy, how
can he be careful and beplanning ahead with his food,
but not obsessing, and that'syeah, it's just so tricky how
all of this?
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yeah, it definitely is, even because, as I'm
listening, I'm like, okay, Ihave an autoimmune, I have an
autoimmune disease myself andlike that.
Sometimes I feel like like thelike I don't feel fixated on
food, but but when I, I feellike I can't sometimes even talk
to Emily because I don't wantto, to my goal or my whatever,
(15:46):
to impact her in some kind of anegative way, and I know, I know
that that it has like.
I know that her dad and myselfwere very like we got to go to
the gym, we got to work out, um,and very focused on that kind
of mentality, not not tellingthe kids they needed to do that,
but feeling like we ourselves.
(16:08):
But it almost I don't.
I do feel like there's beentimes where it felt like
obsessive and for both of us,for him and for myself, and I
won't speak for him besides thatbut um, but I know for me now
it's more about like me feelingcomfortable in my own skin and
it's also me feeling emotionallystable, because I also have
(16:33):
anxiety and depression and ADDand um, and like it helps me to
relieve like some of that.
It doesn't have to be like highintensity all the time and where
I used to do a lot more of thatlike kind of hit classes.
I don't.
Now it's more.
It's definitely I have aPeloton and I do like low impact
rides and I lift weights andthings like that, but it's not.
(16:56):
I'm not like I can't go to thegym.
What am I going to do?
Like it's where I used to feellike that Now.
Now I'm like it's not the endof the world.
If, even if I take off a week,that's fine.
If I take, you know I'll justget back, but it feels more like
functional as well.
Like you know, I'm a singleperson who, like, is over the
(17:18):
age of 50.
And so I want to be able tolike do things.
Even like we had a hurricane andI wanted to put I'm like I
gotta get my shutters up, andand I I asked a neighbor to
borrow his retractable ladder,which is a heavy ladder and I
carried it down the street and Iwas like yes and um, and so
things like like I don't want tonot be able to do things for
(17:41):
myself, so, if that makes sense,but I also do things like yoga
because you know, balance isreally important, as you know,
the older you get, and thingslike that, and so I don't know,
but I don't want to be obsessive, like I don't, like I know
that's something that I have towatch, because I have in the
past had difficulty realizingwhat was appropriate for for my
(18:06):
body composition.
Like I feel good, but peopleare like are you sick?
And um, you know, things likethat.
So I feel like I have to becareful.
I don't currently feel likelike I have a bad relationship
with food.
I definitely have likeeliminated some things like
(18:27):
gluten because of my autoimmunedisease.
It upsets my stomach as welland and so.
But I don't like beat myself up.
If I ever occasionally havebread, like I'm like all right,
I just know I'm going to have astomach ache and my arthritis
might act up a little, but um,but it's not the end of the
world and so, so I don't know.
(18:49):
So I'm listening and I and I'mlike, yeah, does that make sense
?
I want to be sensitive.
I want to understand um whereEmily is coming from and where
people.
You know how people feel aboutthis and I also know that for
myself.
I have to be careful.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think you're to paint itbroad strokes.
I think what we tend to look atand I feel like my client who's
running the marathon is it agood example of like?
Of like there's not a lack ofintensity necessarily, like we
can be into things, we can havehobbies, we can have passions,
we can have pursuits and, youknow, at times say, whoa, I got
(19:26):
a little obsessive about that.
You know, I need to pull backon that.
I think what eating disorders?
What we end up looking at iswhat feels positive and what
starts to feel like pathological, and that's extremely
subjective.
But in general, eatingdisorders and I feel like I can
say eating disorders generallybecause it is documented like
(19:48):
changes in the brain that arequite predictable.
So when I met Emily, I didn'tknow her yet, but I'm like, oh,
I'm shooting the stuff andsaying, oh my gosh, let me guess
You're thinking this, let meguess You're thinking that.
And she's like, oh my gosh,you're speaking exactly to my
eating disorder, because it isan expression of a disease that
is, you know, temporarily takenhold of the brain and so the
(20:09):
thoughts around food and bodyare very predictable, and so
what I tend to teach my clientsis to separate out those things
like how we said, like an eatingdisorder isn't, isn't aligned
with someone's values, and so,like what I hear you saying
about your story and the way youapproach fitness and food and
your autoimmune condition islike it's within your values.
(20:31):
I want to feel well, I want tofeel capable, I want to be
independent.
I'm looking at like functioningin my age and like you know and
that would actually be if I was,if I was working with someone
in an eating disorder they mightbe saying, hey, food really
just all became, or exercisereally became to me about losing
weight or burning calories orhaving a certain aesthetic,
(20:57):
about losing weight or burningcalories or having a certain
aesthetic.
And I lost sight of why I everstarted exercising in the first
place.
And same with food, you know,kind of like, oh my gosh, I
became so fearful of eating thatthing that there was that many
calories.
And so how do I find?
How does food matter to me inmy life and what purpose does it
serve?
And so, yeah, there's like thismapping that happens.
And so I do almost think of likeexternalizing the eating
(21:19):
disorder, like you and Emily canstill convene, but there's a
part of her brain that existedwithin her, that was really at
odds with a lot of things andreally took her off track.
And so it's cool to think that,like now, um and I kind of want
to hear more from you aboutthis, emily like what you like,
what is your like purpose foreating now, or moving your body,
or caring for your body, likewhatever that looks like, kind
(21:41):
of how you were talking about,like your deload week of like,
hey, I think I need to take offand I think I need to rest.
That feels like a better to methis week instead of, or you
know what, um, and that wouldhave been probably, yeah, a huge
part of something you wouldhave had to create now within
yourself.
Emily, how have you kind ofdone that, or what are some
things you've thought about?
Speaker 3 (22:02):
yeah, I think, um, I don't know, I feel like lately I
am eating and like functioning,to like just be happy, like to
just like exist and like be okaywith whatever like my body has
to give me.
Um and I think that's somethingthat I've really I've been more
(22:26):
comfortable with lately is likeunderstanding like okay, like
I'm hungry, like I can eat, likeit's gonna help me like get
through the day and like I'll beable to go for a walk and do
this and that, and it not beattached to my worth, which is,
I think, like where it was whenI was really in an unhealthy
(22:47):
stage.
Like I was like really focusedon like if I have chicken
nuggets for lunch, then likethat's bad and I'm gonna gain
like five pounds and then I'mgonna be ugly and then I'm not
gonna be worthy, like those arethe kinds of things that were in
my mind back when I was feelingthe way that I was feeling,
(23:08):
whereas, like now, I'm like I'mgonna eat and that's it.
Like I'm just gonna eat becauseI'm hungry to eat and that's it
.
Like I'm just going to eatbecause I'm hungry and like
that's a good thing, and then Ican move my body and exist and
like be happy with all thethings that she has to offer me.
And I think, like when I went toa retreat in March in Bali, I I
(23:28):
really learned like how to feellike comfortable in my own skin
, like whatever that like lookslike, and like taking away the
value of like how I do look andnot forcing myself to feel like
I have to love it or that I amlike upset that I don't like it.
(23:50):
Um, just like being okay withwhatever, like it being more
neutral instead of like thefocus being on how I look and
how my eating affects how I lookand how my movement affects how
I look.
Like taking away that, thatwhole piece of it, and just
being like it doesn't matter,like how I look, it matters how
(24:14):
I feel and it matters I'm takingcare of myself and it matters
that I'm healthy and I'm happy.
And if that's, if that's thecase, then like, however I look
is is good enough.
Period, like there doesn't haveto be any comparison to me when
I was 16 and me now, like it's,it's just, it's a lot of like
(24:35):
taking away, kind of like theaspect of really the visual part
for me, because that was, thatwas like the biggest thing in
having an eating disorder.
Like I feel like it was a lotof like.
I want to be thinner, I want tofit society's standards of what
I should look like or how Ishould fit into clothes or and
(25:00):
stuff like that.
So I feel like now it's likeyeah, it's not about that for me
.
I don't know if that likeanswers the question fully, but
like that's, that's how I feelnow.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
Yeah, that's interesting.
It it makes me think about Lexiand Lacey Kite, their work,
it's their book and platform TEDTalk.
It's more than a body and ittalks about how, as young women
in our society at large, we areexposed to this idea of
(25:32):
eventually objectifyingourselves, where we're not just,
like, focused on what we'redoing, but we're focused on how
we look doing it.
And they use the example a lotof themselves as little girls
when they were swimming, andthey're like we don't know, we
don't you know, kind ofrecalling like what age they
were, that then they werethinking about how did I look on
the diving board?
(25:52):
Instead of that just kind ofblissful ignorance of just like
a being in your body, and Ithink, yeah, if we live in our
society, we're going to beexposed to those things,
especially if that's yourtemperament to do so
(26:15):
self-conscious, when we're at arisk for, like, really being
impacted by that more greatlyand susceptible, potentially, to
an eating disorder or or, um,experiencing some symptoms of
that for a time.
Yeah, yeah, that's a cool likeantidote then that you're like
wait a minute, I care about howI'm functioning, I care about
how I feel, I care about how I'mtaking care of myself and and
and trying to remove thataesthetics.
(26:35):
I think that can be helpful too, especially if, like you are at
a place in your life where youjust want to focus on being
present and maybe liking howyour body looks or appreciating
it doesn't feel like a goal ofyours or it feels like something
that's more far off and so justreally feeling quite neutral,
(26:58):
like when you were talking aboutit, I just like like sounds
liberating.
It just sounded so freeing tonot have to spend a lot of
energy on that, but know that,like you're rooted in self-care.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Yeah, yeah, and I think also like it's and
self-care, yeah, yeah, and Ithink also like it's.
It is like a feeling of like.
It's not that I'm like I I don'tlike how I look or I do like
how I look, it's just like notreally paying attention to it
for the most part, like it's notthe thing that is at the
forefront of my mind and thatdefinitely like it.
(27:34):
That also has like changed, Ithink, how I look, because when
people now like are talking tome, I the one thing that I have
gotten so often lately is likeyou're glowing, and I'm like
like thank you, like that meansso much to me because I'm like
from the inside, like that ishow I feel.
And because I'm like from theinside, like that is how I feel,
(27:57):
and because I'm not focused onhow I look physically on the
outside, like that's able tocome out.
Because before it was almostlike I was like blocking that
with like okay, well, I have tocover this up or I have to look
this way to be able to feel good, whereas now I'm like I'm just
letting what's like truly insideme come out and that be what
(28:20):
people see, instead of reallylike the physical aspect of it.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
How has that felt for you to see that transformation
in her Trina.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Oh, I really love that and I agree with you
Liberating, that is the feeling,and also inspiring, like that's
an inspiring way of living, andI definitely, um, I cannot say
that I do the same like I I do,you know, look at myself and
think, oh, I need to do this orthat.
Um, so I, I think that I thinkthat's beautiful and it is so
(28:53):
just watching her like regainconfidence in who she is, that
is like that's a beautiful thingto witness, for sure.
Speaker 4 (29:04):
It does seem something that, generationally,
I feel like feeling a shift.
You know, I've worked in thisfield for almost 20 years and
just even and then obviously, Igrew up in this world as a early
two thousands teenager andnight late nineties, you know
(29:25):
middle school, so not a friendlytime then either.
I'm sure you can relate to thattime in your life as well.
So it's cool to see, like, eventhough I think we're still a
ways away but just that there'sother ways that we can approach
health and wellness without youknow, focusing solely on you
know, being smaller, even someof the things you named of like
(29:48):
maybe you still deal with someof these criticisms that were
probably instilled in your braindecades ago Just that you have
a foundation of.
What I keep going back to isbeing well and managing an
autoimmune condition, feelinggood, not having a sore stomach,
you know, even if it happenssometimes.
(30:09):
If I can avoid it, I'd like toavoid that feeling like that's
focused to me on feeling goodand I, I don't know, I like to
think that things are changing.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
And I agree, I totally agree, because I'm,
while you were saying that, I'mthinking, even you know, if you
had three generations sittinghere, which my mom is, she's 76.
So she's not like so old thatshe wouldn't be sitting here, um
, and she and it's.
So it's a it's so different.
It's different the way that Imean it was a lot of emphasis on
(30:43):
looks for her and then you knowthat trickles down, so that.
So then that emphasis is veryobvious to me and I'm sure my
emphasis on my cell of my bodywas an emphasis that I didn't
mean to pass along to Emily andI tried to be conscious of it
because I know what it did to me.
But at the same time it's likeI didn't do, I mean I, what I
(31:06):
didn't.
I needed to love myself If Ihad taught Emily that I loved
myself the whole time instead of.
That's really confusing to akid when you, when they see
their mom, you know questioningtheir own body, when the child
thinks they're beautiful.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
And that's hard.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Yeah, it's really like, wow, you know we we don't
mean to, as mothers, like youknow, hurt them.
Yeah, and you're right withsociety Like it was.
You know I grew up in theseventies and the eighties and
so you know Cindy Crawford wasthe person.
(31:50):
So it, you know it was a.
It was a different.
It was a different world.
You know people were trying tobe as teeny tiny as possible and
you did feel a lot of pressure.
I always like joke about man.
If I'd grown up with KimKardashian I would have felt
better, at least about mybackside, like I would have felt
like, hey, this is all right,but so, you know, it's just.
(32:11):
It's just, I mean, she's, youknow, not perfect.
I mean she's tries to beperfect, but she, you know what
I mean.
Um, it's just problematicthings too, but yeah, it's just
like I don't know.
I do like that that that thereis more focus on on who they, a
person, is, rather than whatthey look like.
I, I definitely think that's achange that seems to be getting
(32:34):
better.
We still have a long way to gowith that, obviously, but I but
I think, but it's better than itwas when I was younger, for
sure, although I will say, thething that's really difficult is
social media.
Like I, I think I wouldn't havesurvived social media at a as a
teenager.
As a teenager, especially likemaybe in my early twenties, it
(32:57):
would have been all right, but,um, as a teenager it would have
been all right, but as ateenager I would have been
crushed.
So I think that I think that'svery difficult.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
Agreed.
There's some ways that we canuse media literacy now that I
feel like didn't even existbefore, like we didn't know that
those magazine images wereairbrushed, like that wasn't
something that was reallydiscussed, and so now I feel
like there is this awareness of,like, the filters and how it's
like fake in some ways orinaccurate, but I think we still
(33:29):
, our brains, don't rememberthat when we're scrolling social
media and we have so many moreinputs of that too that it's
just, yeah, it's like in someways things have, yeah, shape
shifted and and we have a farways to go, and in other ways
there's at least a little morepresentation of some diversity
and appreciation of that.
That hopefully helps plant theseed for more to come.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Yeah, and thankfully now too, like something that's
becoming more common is that,like, social media platforms,
like, require you to like, saylike is this, is this AI?
Is this edited?
Is there a filter on it?
Like on YouTube specifically,like, every time I upload a
(34:13):
video for mind, your heart, orfor a client, or whatever, it's
always like is this contentaltered in any way?
Like under these things.
So it'll be like is your likeface edited, is this edited, or
whatever?
And if it is, then you have tolike, click that it is, or it'll
get flagged.
So, which I'm like.
(34:33):
I kind of love that because I'mlike then it's like painting a
real picture which, like it'slike you can have that content
on YouTube, but you just have tobe open about the fact that,
like, this isn't actually how itlooks like in real life.
So, um, I like that.
That's nice that transparencyfor sure yeah, yeah, because,
(34:56):
like Erica, like you said, it'slike you your brain doesn't
recognize that immediately.
So when like that's theresomewhere to be, like okay, like
this actually isn't real, justso you know, like it does give
you a little bit like, oh, okay,so I don't have to strive to be
like that because it's not evena real thing.
Speaker 4 (35:14):
You can do have pores , I guess yeah, yeah, yeah,
seriously, yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Um, I I would love to like hear like your opinion and
like kind of like the advicethat you would give to someone
like who is kind of like back.
Like when I was starting outwith you and I was like confused
and feeling like just like notknowing where to go and like my
biggest kind of hurdle felt likeit was that like I thought food
(35:46):
was good and bad, like what.
What would you say to thatperson if they were like
standing right in front of you,like what, what advice would you
give them?
Speaker 4 (35:57):
I think that as far as the morality and food, so
morality is saying this is goodor bad and why.
Why I think that way ofthinking around food and I'm a
dietitian, I'm trained in thescience of nutrition and
wellness I want people to bewell.
That's a huge reason that I amwho I am and why I do what I do.
(36:19):
But when we start tying thatmorality into it, it can get
tricky, because then it becomesabout you're a good or bad
person for consuming that food,or we lose nuance and context.
You know, okay, like how.
You know, oh, like you know,carbohydrates are bad.
That's been kind of the morerecent thing We've also lived
(36:39):
through.
Low fat and fat is bad.
And you know, oh, like you know, carbohydrates are bad.
That's been kind of the morerecent thing We've also lived
through.
Low fat and fat is bad, and youknow whatever.
There's a million of these typeof trends and nutrition science
is always evolving.
So giving this person a verylong answer, but I just I think
there's a lot of nuance here andso I would want that person to
examine what good or bad meansaround food to them, because
(37:04):
most likely remember that I canguess what people with eating
disorders are thinking because Iunderstand the disease process
of having an eating disorder andthat's no offense to anyone.
I mean I, I had an eatingdisorder myself.
I love working with clients whohave eating disorders.
I have an understanding, I havea passion for it.
But I think it is important tosay your eating disorder is not
you, that's not how you think.
(37:25):
And so someone with an eatingdisorder is going to hear good
or bad in the service ofavoidance of gaining weight,
fear of gaining weight, fear ofa particular food leading to
weight gain, and that is theabsolute central belief and fear
of an eating disorder.
So, if, if, if, if someone saysthat food is bad, well, why?
Oh, because it gives me astomach ache, because of my
(37:47):
autoimmune condition.
I know I'm not a bad person ifI have it sometimes it happens,
but I know there will beconsequences for the medical
condition that I'm dealing with.
And eating disorder is fear andfear of weight gain, fear of
that food, and that's not even avanity aspect and it is an
anxiety disorder that has takenover in the brain.
And so that's why, likeovercoming your fear of foods,
(38:10):
dismantling foods being good orbad, understanding how food can
serve you in your body is thehallmark of the recovery, the
antithesis of an eating disorder, and so I would be so excited
for that person to be at thebeginning of that journey.
I would feel overwhelmed forthem knowing how much they have
ahead, but I would be hopefulabout hey, they are starting to
(38:34):
realize that the way they'rethinking and feeling about food
is at odds with other parts ofthemselves, and they want to
find a different way to thinkabout it and they're trying to
make sense of it yeah, I lovethat.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
That it's at odds with the other parts.
Yeah, that's really good.
Oh, I love that.
I'm just like so happy that youcame and did this.
Like I'm really really sograteful because I I was telling
Jacob I'm like you know, likeErica was like a, like you were
a turning point for me, like youoh, I could start crying.
(39:07):
I I just like am very gratefulfor you and like and I've told
you this before and now I'mfrozen again.
I just feel like there was.
I just needed you, I needed yourwisdom, I needed what you were
(39:28):
able to offer and like for youto show up in a way that like I
hadn't seen, like in, especiallyhealth care providers.
Like, and like as a woman, likeexperiencing different health
care providers making thingsworse and then showing up and it
(39:50):
being like just such a safety,like such a safe person to talk
to, and like like you're saying,like you're like I just know
like how it feels it.
It was, that's how it was.
It was like every time I waslike oh, this is how I feel.
And then you were like is itlike this and this?
And I'm like yes, oh, thank you.
(40:12):
Like it was like finally likesomebody like was hearing what I
was saying and like validatingit and then also getting me to
the next step.
So I'm just I'm very gratefulfor you and like all that, like
you are a part of and my journeyand like I just think I'm like
anybody listening to this.
Just at least look into Erica,like follow her on Instagram, do
(40:36):
whatever you need to do and ifyou need support, like you are
the person to go to.
That's how I feel, so thank youfor being here.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
Absolutely.
Thank you so much for having meand just these conversations
that you are having.
I think you know one of thethings that you recognized early
on in your journey was thatthere wasn't an awareness that
you had.
You just knew something feltoff.
And so these conversations thatyou all are having on this
podcast are creating awarenessin people and knowing that
(41:08):
there's other ways to thinkabout it and how to get to a
place that feels good.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
So before we go, we like to do a couple of like just
lightning round questions, soI'm going to ask you just a
couple random questions, ifthat's okay with you, sure, okay
, um, I really.
I read this question.
I was like this is such a coolquestion.
What would, what would it be ifyou had a personal theme song
(41:35):
that played whenever you walkedinto a room?
Speaker 4 (41:48):
I'm trying to think of something that's not early
2000s rap, whatever you want,when Stefani came to mind for
some reason.
Okay, yeah to mind for somereason.
Okay, yeah, I don't know whichsong of hers, but the energy
that she put out in the early2000s and the late 90s was like
(42:09):
I'm here, I'm arrived.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
No, I know I was like .
I read that question I'm like,ooh, what would it be like
walking and being like, yes,here I am, am okay.
Um, what's the first concertyou attended?
Speaker 4 (42:25):
Aerosmith oh cool 90s Aerosmith big ones tour that's
so cool, was it awesome it?
It was, and I have cracked upseeing the memes of Steven Tyler
now where I mean he's like aneccentric man that is an artist
(42:46):
and a legend.
But it's hilarious to see themlike memes, saying like oh you
know, he looks like your stepmomor something because he's got
this long hair still and wildscarves and all the things
that's crazy, so funny still andwild scarves and all the things
.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Okay, and then last one what is your favorite food?
If you could pick any food orany meal, what would it be?
Chicken Parmesan.
Speaker 4 (43:14):
Yum, italian through and through, and I know that's
like a basic dish, but it's aclassic that I've always loved.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
Yes, yeah and done well.
Oh, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
So good.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
Well, thank you for being here.
Is there anything that like iscoming up for you, any events,
anything that you want to sharethat like people can find you
Great question.
Speaker 4 (43:39):
I mostly these days I have a couple of speaking
events locally in Columbus, ohio.
But online world, I really justbeen meeting with people
one-on-one.
I am on Instagram.
Still, I haven't been as activerecently, not because I'm not
home, I've just been really busywith some of these more local
events and I think I love socialmedia.
(44:01):
I love connecting with people.
I love the variety of peoplethat I've met through it.
I just noticed kind of comingout of COVID I wasn't on it
quite as much so basicallythat's a long way of me saying
like I have my podcast, I havemy Instagram, I have a lot of
older posts that are just sovaluable.
I would repost them over andover again because there's so
(44:23):
much there.
Um, but anyone's welcome toreach out to me through my bio,
through my website, if they wantto work with me or they just
they just have questions.
Um, I can be reached directlythrough my website at aligned,
aligned nutritioncom.
Awesome, aligned with an L, elike a.
Maybe you can put it in thenotes with the E, d, not aligned
(44:44):
nutrition.
Aligned, yes, yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
Yeah, all of that will be um, in the description,
um.
So if you're watching onYouTube, it'll be in the
description link to Instagram,her website, all that good stuff
, um.
And then if you're listening,it'll be in the show notes on
whatever platform you're on.
So, yeah, thank you again forbeing here.
We appreciate you so much.
Speaker 4 (45:07):
Thank you for having me Wonderful speaking with you.
Hey, welcome to Mind your Heart Podcast, your
favorite corner of the internetwhere we chat about all things
mental health.
I'm Emily.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
And I'm Trina.
Together, we're like yourreal-life Lorelai and Rory
Gilmore.
Each week, we'll bring you realconversations about the world
of mental health and we willpeel back layers on topics like
anxiety, depression and muchmore.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
We're here to chat with you about the tough stuff,
the everyday stuff andeverything in between.
So grab your emotional supportwater bottle I know we have ours
.
Find your comfiest chair orkeep your eyes on the road and
let's get into it.
Are you ready, mom?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Absolutely.
Join us as we mind our heartsand hopefully make minding yours
a little easier.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
How are you?
How are you doing?
We haven't talked in a while.
Erica, this is my mom.
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
It's wonderful to meet you, so nice to meet you.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
This is yes, I was so looking forward to this.
It's so good to see you again.
It was interesting.
I was telling my husband I'm ona podcast today and he was like
, oh, like, how did you gethooked up with that?
And I was telling him about theRose Retreat and how we met and
it just is a cool full circlemoment to be speaking with you
(01:16):
both today.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah Well, let's just like,let's just get started.
I kind of want to tell thatstory of how we did meet because
I feel like that was for me.
That was such a pivotal momentin my journey with an eating
disorder and learning how tolove myself.
(01:38):
So, yeah, let's just start.
Welcome to the Mind your Heartpodcast.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
I'm.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Emily and mom, I'm Trina.
Oh, am I frozen?
You're frozen.
Of course I'm frozen.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
We can still hear you , but you're.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Okay, at least I'm like smiling while frozen.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yes, it didn't catch you in an awkward yeah, an
awkward facial, oh man okay,wait, are we good?
Speaker 3 (02:12):
can you see me okay?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
oh, okay.
Well, this is erica butlerwelcome welcome, erica um, I'm
so excited to have you today.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Um, we were just talking about how we met, which
is like, really, it's kind of awild story.
I feel like, um, excuse me,like whenever I'm there's a
couple people that I've talkedto where I'm like, oh, the story
of how we met is so cool, um,and I just feel like it was
meant to be, like it wassupposed to happen that way.
(02:46):
I don't know what is happeningwith my camera, but apparently I
just keep freezing.
So Erica and I met when whatyear was that?
I don't even remember what yearit was, I believe that was 2022
or 2021.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
It was the fall.
Yes, we were at the RoseRetreat.
I was on a panel.
You were in attendance.
We met the night before, though, at that smaller event right?
Speaker 3 (03:20):
No, no, we met the day of the retreat at the end
like before.
I think it was like rightbefore you were like leaving,
because it was like after theretreat was over.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
Yes, because we had the Q&A panel and I said I'll
stick around if anyone wants tocome up and chat.
And you were one of thosepeople.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Yeah, yeah, and back then I feel like it was 2021.
I think it was 2021.
Yeah, yeah, and back then Ifeel like it was 2021.
I think it was 2021.
Yeah, Back in 2021, I wasworking at the time with like a
fitness coach and they had melike taking pictures of like my
(04:02):
progress and like not being ableto like eat a lot of certain
things and like I was trackingcalories.
That was when I was like reallyin my fitness pal, which, like
for anyone who has experiencedan eating disorder, that that's
(04:22):
like often brought up of likethat's a, that's a trigger, Um,
and I just didn't know like whatI was doing.
Really Like I was trying reallyhard to be healthy but, um, it
was like I was.
I just wasn't where I should be.
I wasn't with the people thatwere educated in the way that I
(04:44):
needed them to be.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
That's what stood out to me when we were first
talking, because you were sayingthings like hey, I'm working
with this coach and I'm you know, I I had an eating disorder and
I've dealt with an eatingdisorder and I think it's still
being activated, but I'm tryingto be healthy.
And you were trying to makesense of those two things at the
(05:08):
time and it was, yeah, and evenjust feeling like you, we know,
in when you're recovering froman eating disorder, like part of
that is I need some structure,I need to understand what my
body needs to eat and what itneeds to be to nourish and
sustained, and so it's like thatprogram was providing it for
(05:28):
you, but it was also incitingyour eating disorder at the same
time and you were just so stuckLike you knew it wasn't the
right thing, but you didn't knowwhat was and you weren't sure
what you were looking for.
But you were looking forsomething.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yeah, for sure, and I remember that.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
What's a fitness pal?
Is that what you call it, my?
Speaker 3 (05:46):
fitness pal, my fitness pal.
Yeah, it's basically an applike where you can track, like
calories and like what you'reeating and like, put it all in
and it shows you, like, all thenumbers with it.
Yeah which, like is fine forpeople who are not experiencing
(06:07):
an eating disorder and like cantrack that in.
Whenever I started working withyou, erica, I was, like I can't
eat this, like this is bad.
I remember like the biggestshift for me and working
(06:34):
together was like understandingthat, like food can just be food
and that, like there, itdoesn't have to be good or bad,
so like that was a huge likeWhoa does things, things for us,
but the morality.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
We're removing the morality.
Like food has certainproperties, that does certain
things you know we would havetalked about.
Like you need protein to breakdown an amino acid which is
precursor for yourneurotransmitters and it's
important for muscle functionand endocrine function.
When carbohydrates you need thebroken down glucose take across
the blood brain barrier foryour energy, for your muscles,
(07:08):
for, you know, fitness, forliving life.
Like it was just there's allfatty acids, like all these
purposes, but that like this isgood, this is bad, it has to fit
into this narrow range that Ihave for today.
And it was just.
It was leaving you at odds withwhat you were figuring out
about yourself.
It was so.
It was like this external thing, like restricting what you were
trying to figure out inyourself.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
For sure.
Yeah, and I think, like now,now, like where I am, I'm like I
even like catch like peoplethat I'm with and they're like,
oh, I can't have this, it's bad.
And I was like, why is it bad?
Like now I'm like is it bad oris it just like maybe we like
don't eat it every single daybreakfast, lunch and dinner,
like.
So yeah, that was definitely,it was a.
It was a whole lot of like Iwas.
I was in a state of confusionand also like just searching for
(08:02):
something that I didn't reallyknow like where to find it.
Um, because I feel like, I feellike the resources for people
who are experiencing an eatingdisorder are not there.
I feel like they're not talkedabout, like, they're not like
here, they are for you.
You know what I mean.
So I I remember like being atthe conference and I was waiting
(08:28):
in line for the bathroom, andthat's when I met Mick and I
have been following Mick for along time and I started talking
to her and I was like I knowwe're in the line for the
bathroom, but I'm like it'sreally, really cool to meet you
and also like do you mind if Itell you a little bit of like
(08:50):
what's happening.
And I was telling her and I juststarted crying and I was like I
know this isn't what I'msupposed to be doing.
And she was like so, like youcan listen to like your
intuition, like you, you knowthat this isn't healthy for you.
And I was like, but I don'treally know, like what to do.
And she was like well, erica,who is here and she's gonna be
(09:14):
on a panel, she's like she haslike changed my life.
And I was like okay, then Ineed to talk to her.
Like yesterday.
So I remember like walking upto you and being like I don't
know what I need and I don'tknow what this looks like, but
here is what I have.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
So yeah that's how.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
That's how we met.
That's how it started.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Yes, well, and I think you know, with the
MyFitnessPal aspect and you know, trying to dial in on nutrition
and calculate everything andfollow it, it's like again, when
you've had an eating disorder,you lose like what you're, you
lose touch with, likeunderstanding your body's energy
needs.
What kind of what's a breakfastlook like for me?
(10:00):
What's a lunch look like for me?
Because eating disorders arecharacterized by fear of food
and anxiety around food andoverwhelm of decision-making
around food.
So that's where I think you got, you got trapped, where you're
like okay, I need this to tellme what to eat, I will follow
this program.
But at the same time, therewere yeah, there were just
(10:20):
because eating disorders in andof themselves can be out of line
with what else matters to youin your life.
Like you, outside of your eatingdisorder, really solid
foundation.
You have wonderful partner,wonderful family faith, a good
career, good confidence inyourself, except for around food
.
And so it's like I just feellike you were like trying to
(10:40):
find a way to bring those thingstogether.
And that's where you know I wastelling you I'm like you do
need some structure, you do needsome guidance and you know,
without saying like, oh, youjust need it from me, but no,
you need it from someone thatdoes understand eating disorders
, because that structure andeating is temporary.
I doubt now you're like countingout your grams of anything, but
you know, once upon a time wewould have been talking about,
(11:03):
like gosh, you know, you reallyshould add something on the side
with that for your lunch.
Or man, you know, I do thinkyou need some of those foods to
build up in your day.
Or, oh my gosh, yeah, when yougo to your family's house for
Thanksgiving, like yeah, ofcourse you're going to, you know
, dessert can be part of yourafternoon snack, but it can also
just be just for joy and forfun and for part of the holiday.
(11:26):
So just sounds like we had somuch to talk about ahead.
We didn't know it yet.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Yeah, no for sure.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
I have a question so, um, so do you specifically work
with people that have had okay,that's so eating disorders?
So that is your especially,cause I, I'm, I'm just curious
how it's, how, like, what issomething that you approach
differently?
Speaker 4 (11:47):
Because, because of that, yes, there's more this
sensitivity to the internalthoughts and anxieties that
eating disorders have.
So, for example, maybe, likewhen Emily was working with that
training program, they wouldhave said you need to have six
(12:08):
ounces of turkey and plug itinto your lunch and da, da, da,
da.
And her you know and track that, and it would have been the
calories and the grams and shewould have been eating disorders
can tend to create like anobsessiveness as well around
food.
A lot of that's because of thatbiological deprivation that's
happening in the body and justthe specific neural pathways
(12:29):
that happen in eating disorders.
So it so it makes someonesusceptible to really almost
obsessing too much into beingoverly focused on it.
And so, while on one hand, weneed to like provide some
guidance and structure, so Imight've been talking to her
about like hey, like what aresome sources of protein that you
can put with your lunch, and wemight've been talking about
(12:49):
like the positive attributes,attributes of protein or the
things that it does for us,because I have that sensitivity
of we're eliminating the fear,we're creating abundance, not
scarcity, but we're stillproviding some guidance, and so
I wouldn't say it's always liketotally at odds with what we
might see, but it's more thatmindset, that approach Plus.
(13:10):
What's the end game, what's theoutcome?
So, someone with an eatingdisorder typically their goal is
to not be obsessed with foodand not think about food all the
time.
They might also be like, well,I would love to have a body
composition change or some otherthings, but we have to set that
aside for the time being andsay, hey, we've really got to
focus on recovering from youreating disorder.
So then you know the.
(13:30):
You know knowing how muchprotein you have at lunch is in
service of meeting your energyneeds and tolerating that
anxiety, overcoming that fear ofeating that food.
And that's the recovery aspect,whereas you know well, maybe
more of a someone else that hasa completely different goal
around why they would be payingattention to and changing any of
(13:52):
the things they're doing withfood.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Okay, that that makes sense.
I yeah that.
I guess that part has alwayskind of confused me a little bit
, but hearing that that makessense, so thank you Absolutely
Great question.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
Great question, cause I think that, yeah, I think
there is a lot of um, uh,misunderstanding.
You know, like, like Emily, likeyou were saying you're like I
know that I need some help withfood, but food is also such a
loaded subject for me, like Idon't know like what to do, to
like find you know a way to getthrough this, and um, and so,
(14:26):
yeah, we just have a differentand we're, as a dietician that
works with eating disorders,like I might be working with
someone on their eating disorderand something else like me, and
maybe you're dealing with somegastrointestinal issues or, and
maybe you have an autoimmunecondition or, and there might be
something else going on.
But there's just that, thatsensitivity and that focus of
hey, there's this co-occurringcondition that might, you know,
(14:51):
cause, cause, some issues.
Another example of that is Ihave a client right now who he
has type one diabetes and hejust finished running a marathon
and has an eating disorder, andso you know, what we had to
focus on is like, okay, likefueling blood sugar regulation,
planning out for his athleticendeavors, but also like how can
(15:13):
he live, how can he live alittle, how can he enjoy, how
can he be careful and beplanning ahead with his food,
but not obsessing, and that'syeah, it's just so tricky how
all of this?
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yeah, it definitely is, even because, as I'm
listening, I'm like, okay, Ihave an autoimmune, I have an
autoimmune disease myself andlike that.
Sometimes I feel like like thelike I don't feel fixated on
food, but but when I, I feellike I can't sometimes even talk
to Emily because I don't wantto, to my goal or my whatever,
(15:46):
to impact her in some kind of anegative way, and I know, I know
that that it has like.
I know that her dad and myselfwere very like we got to go to
the gym, we got to work out, um,and very focused on that kind
of mentality, not not tellingthe kids they needed to do that,
but feeling like we ourselves.
(16:08):
But it almost I don't.
I do feel like there's beentimes where it felt like
obsessive and for both of us,for him and for myself, and I
won't speak for him besides thatbut um, but I know for me now
it's more about like me feelingcomfortable in my own skin and
it's also me feeling emotionallystable, because I also have
(16:33):
anxiety and depression and ADDand um, and like it helps me to
relieve like some of that.
It doesn't have to be like highintensity all the time and where
I used to do a lot more of thatlike kind of hit classes.
I don't.
Now it's more.
It's definitely I have aPeloton and I do like low impact
rides and I lift weights andthings like that, but it's not.
(16:56):
I'm not like I can't go to thegym.
What am I going to do?
Like it's where I used to feellike that Now.
Now I'm like it's not the endof the world.
If, even if I take off a week,that's fine.
If I take, you know I'll justget back, but it feels more like
functional as well.
Like you know, I'm a singleperson who, like, is over the
(17:18):
age of 50.
And so I want to be able tolike do things.
Even like we had a hurricane andI wanted to put I'm like I
gotta get my shutters up, andand I I asked a neighbor to
borrow his retractable ladder,which is a heavy ladder and I
carried it down the street and Iwas like yes and um, and so
things like like I don't want tonot be able to do things for
(17:41):
myself, so, if that makes sense,but I also do things like yoga
because you know, balance isreally important, as you know,
the older you get, and thingslike that, and so I don't know,
but I don't want to be obsessive, like I don't, like I know
that's something that I have towatch, because I have in the
past had difficulty realizingwhat was appropriate for for my
(18:06):
body composition.
Like I feel good, but peopleare like are you sick?
And um, you know, things likethat.
So I feel like I have to becareful.
I don't currently feel likelike I have a bad relationship
with food.
I definitely have likeeliminated some things like
(18:27):
gluten because of my autoimmunedisease.
It upsets my stomach as welland and so.
But I don't like beat myself up.
If I ever occasionally havebread, like I'm like all right,
I just know I'm going to have astomach ache and my arthritis
might act up a little, but um,but it's not the end of the
world and so, so I don't know.
(18:49):
So I'm listening and I and I'mlike, yeah, does that make sense
?
I want to be sensitive.
I want to understand um whereEmily is coming from and where
people.
You know how people feel aboutthis and I also know that for
myself.
I have to be careful.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think you're to paint itbroad strokes.
I think what we tend to look atand I feel like my client who's
running the marathon is it agood example of like?
Of like there's not a lack ofintensity necessarily, like we
can be into things, we can havehobbies, we can have passions,
we can have pursuits and, youknow, at times say, whoa, I got
(19:26):
a little obsessive about that.
You know, I need to pull backon that.
I think what eating disorders?
What we end up looking at iswhat feels positive and what
starts to feel like pathological, and that's extremely
subjective.
But in general, eatingdisorders and I feel like I can
say eating disorders generallybecause it is documented like
(19:48):
changes in the brain that arequite predictable.
So when I met Emily, I didn'tknow her yet, but I'm like, oh,
I'm shooting the stuff andsaying, oh my gosh, let me guess
You're thinking this, let meguess You're thinking that.
And she's like, oh my gosh,you're speaking exactly to my
eating disorder, because it isan expression of a disease that
is, you know, temporarily takenhold of the brain and so the
(20:09):
thoughts around food and bodyare very predictable, and so
what I tend to teach my clientsis to separate out those things
like how we said, like an eatingdisorder isn't, isn't aligned
with someone's values, and so,like what I hear you saying
about your story and the way youapproach fitness and food and
your autoimmune condition islike it's within your values.
(20:31):
I want to feel well, I want tofeel capable, I want to be
independent.
I'm looking at like functioningin my age and like you know and
that would actually be if I was,if I was working with someone
in an eating disorder they mightbe saying, hey, food really
just all became, or exercisereally became to me about losing
weight or burning calories orhaving a certain aesthetic,
(20:57):
about losing weight or burningcalories or having a certain
aesthetic.
And I lost sight of why I everstarted exercising in the first
place.
And same with food, you know,kind of like, oh my gosh, I
became so fearful of eating thatthing that there was that many
calories.
And so how do I find?
How does food matter to me inmy life and what purpose does it
serve?
And so, yeah, there's like thismapping that happens.
And so I do almost think of likeexternalizing the eating
(21:19):
disorder, like you and Emily canstill convene, but there's a
part of her brain that existedwithin her, that was really at
odds with a lot of things andreally took her off track.
And so it's cool to think that,like now, um and I kind of want
to hear more from you aboutthis, emily like what you like,
what is your like purpose foreating now, or moving your body,
or caring for your body, likewhatever that looks like, kind
(21:41):
of how you were talking about,like your deload week of like,
hey, I think I need to take offand I think I need to rest.
That feels like a better to methis week instead of, or you
know what, um, and that wouldhave been probably, yeah, a huge
part of something you wouldhave had to create now within
yourself.
Emily, how have you kind ofdone that, or what are some
things you've thought about?
Speaker 3 (22:02):
yeah, I think, um, I don't know, I feel like lately I
am eating and like functioning,to like just be happy, like to
just like exist and like be okaywith whatever like my body has
to give me.
Um and I think that's somethingthat I've really I've been more
(22:26):
comfortable with lately is likeunderstanding like okay, like
I'm hungry, like I can eat, likeit's gonna help me like get
through the day and like I'll beable to go for a walk and do
this and that, and it not beattached to my worth, which is,
I think, like where it was whenI was really in an unhealthy
(22:47):
stage.
Like I was like really focusedon like if I have chicken
nuggets for lunch, then likethat's bad and I'm gonna gain
like five pounds and then I'mgonna be ugly and then I'm not
gonna be worthy, like those arethe kinds of things that were in
my mind back when I was feelingthe way that I was feeling,
(23:08):
whereas, like now, I'm like I'mgonna eat and that's it.
Like I'm just gonna eat becauseI'm hungry to eat and that's it
.
Like I'm just going to eatbecause I'm hungry and like
that's a good thing, and then Ican move my body and exist and
like be happy with all thethings that she has to offer me.
And I think, like when I went toa retreat in March in Bali, I I
(23:28):
really learned like how to feellike comfortable in my own skin
, like whatever that like lookslike, and like taking away the
value of like how I do look andnot forcing myself to feel like
I have to love it or that I amlike upset that I don't like it.
(23:50):
Um, just like being okay withwhatever, like it being more
neutral instead of like thefocus being on how I look and
how my eating affects how I lookand how my movement affects how
I look.
Like taking away that, thatwhole piece of it, and just
being like it doesn't matter,like how I look, it matters how
(24:14):
I feel and it matters I'm takingcare of myself and it matters
that I'm healthy and I'm happy.
And if that's, if that's thecase, then like, however I look
is is good enough.
Period, like there doesn't haveto be any comparison to me when
I was 16 and me now, like it's,it's just, it's a lot of like
(24:35):
taking away, kind of like theaspect of really the visual part
for me, because that was, thatwas like the biggest thing in
having an eating disorder.
Like I feel like it was a lotof like.
I want to be thinner, I want tofit society's standards of what
I should look like or how Ishould fit into clothes or and
(25:00):
stuff like that.
So I feel like now it's likeyeah, it's not about that for me
.
I don't know if that likeanswers the question fully, but
like that's, that's how I feelnow.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
Yeah, that's interesting.
It it makes me think about Lexiand Lacey Kite, their work,
it's their book and platform TEDTalk.
It's more than a body and ittalks about how, as young women
in our society at large, we areexposed to this idea of
(25:32):
eventually objectifyingourselves, where we're not just,
like, focused on what we'redoing, but we're focused on how
we look doing it.
And they use the example a lotof themselves as little girls
when they were swimming, andthey're like we don't know, we
don't you know, kind ofrecalling like what age they
were, that then they werethinking about how did I look on
the diving board?
(25:52):
Instead of that just kind ofblissful ignorance of just like
a being in your body, and Ithink, yeah, if we live in our
society, we're going to beexposed to those things,
especially if that's yourtemperament to do so
(26:15):
self-conscious, when we're at arisk for, like, really being
impacted by that more greatlyand susceptible, potentially, to
an eating disorder or or, um,experiencing some symptoms of
that for a time.
Yeah, yeah, that's a cool likeantidote then that you're like
wait a minute, I care about howI'm functioning, I care about
how I feel, I care about how I'mtaking care of myself and and
and trying to remove thataesthetics.
(26:35):
I think that can be helpful too, especially if, like you are at
a place in your life where youjust want to focus on being
present and maybe liking howyour body looks or appreciating
it doesn't feel like a goal ofyours or it feels like something
that's more far off and so justreally feeling quite neutral,
(26:58):
like when you were talking aboutit, I just like like sounds
liberating.
It just sounded so freeing tonot have to spend a lot of
energy on that, but know that,like you're rooted in self-care.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Yeah, yeah, and I think also like it's and
self-care, yeah, yeah, and Ithink also like it's.
It is like a feeling of like.
It's not that I'm like I I don'tlike how I look or I do like
how I look, it's just like notreally paying attention to it
for the most part, like it's notthe thing that is at the
forefront of my mind and thatdefinitely like it.
(27:34):
That also has like changed, Ithink, how I look, because when
people now like are talking tome, I the one thing that I have
gotten so often lately is likeyou're glowing, and I'm like
like thank you, like that meansso much to me because I'm like
from the inside, like that ishow I feel.
And because I'm like from theinside, like that is how I feel,
(27:57):
and because I'm not focused onhow I look physically on the
outside, like that's able tocome out.
Because before it was almostlike I was like blocking that
with like okay, well, I have tocover this up or I have to look
this way to be able to feel good, whereas now I'm like I'm just
letting what's like truly insideme come out and that be what
(28:20):
people see, instead of reallylike the physical aspect of it.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
How has that felt for you to see that transformation
in her Trina.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Oh, I really love that and I agree with you
Liberating, that is the feeling,and also inspiring, like that's
an inspiring way of living, andI definitely, um, I cannot say
that I do the same like I I do,you know, look at myself and
think, oh, I need to do this orthat.
Um, so I, I think that I thinkthat's beautiful and it is so
(28:53):
just watching her like regainconfidence in who she is, that
is like that's a beautiful thingto witness, for sure.
Speaker 4 (29:04):
It does seem something that, generationally,
I feel like feeling a shift.
You know, I've worked in thisfield for almost 20 years and
just even and then obviously, Igrew up in this world as a early
two thousands teenager andnight late nineties, you know
(29:25):
middle school, so not a friendlytime then either.
I'm sure you can relate to thattime in your life as well.
So it's cool to see, like, eventhough I think we're still a
ways away but just that there'sother ways that we can approach
health and wellness without youknow, focusing solely on you
know, being smaller, even someof the things you named of like
(29:48):
maybe you still deal with someof these criticisms that were
probably instilled in your braindecades ago Just that you have
a foundation of.
What I keep going back to isbeing well and managing an
autoimmune condition, feelinggood, not having a sore stomach,
you know, even if it happenssometimes.
(30:09):
If I can avoid it, I'd like toavoid that feeling like that's
focused to me on feeling goodand I, I don't know, I like to
think that things are changing.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
And I agree, I totally agree, because I'm,
while you were saying that, I'mthinking, even you know, if you
had three generations sittinghere, which my mom is, she's 76.
So she's not like so old thatshe wouldn't be sitting here, um
, and she and it's.
So it's a it's so different.
It's different the way that Imean it was a lot of emphasis on
(30:43):
looks for her and then you knowthat trickles down, so that.
So then that emphasis is veryobvious to me and I'm sure my
emphasis on my cell of my bodywas an emphasis that I didn't
mean to pass along to Emily andI tried to be conscious of it
because I know what it did to me.
But at the same time it's likeI didn't do, I mean I, what I
(31:06):
didn't.
I needed to love myself If Ihad taught Emily that I loved
myself the whole time instead of.
That's really confusing to akid when you, when they see
their mom, you know questioningtheir own body, when the child
thinks they're beautiful.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
And that's hard.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Yeah, it's really like, wow, you know we we don't
mean to, as mothers, like youknow, hurt them.
Yeah, and you're right withsociety Like it was.
You know I grew up in theseventies and the eighties and
so you know Cindy Crawford wasthe person.
(31:50):
So it, you know it was a.
It was a different.
It was a different world.
You know people were trying tobe as teeny tiny as possible and
you did feel a lot of pressure.
I always like joke about man.
If I'd grown up with KimKardashian I would have felt
better, at least about mybackside, like I would have felt
like, hey, this is all right,but so, you know, it's just.
(32:11):
It's just, I mean, she's, youknow, not perfect.
I mean she's tries to beperfect, but she, you know what
I mean.
Um, it's just problematicthings too, but yeah, it's just
like I don't know.
I do like that that that thereis more focus on on who they, a
person, is, rather than whatthey look like.
I, I definitely think that's achange that seems to be getting
(32:34):
better.
We still have a long way to gowith that, obviously, but I but
I think, but it's better than itwas when I was younger, for
sure, although I will say, thething that's really difficult is
social media.
Like I, I think I wouldn't havesurvived social media at a as a
teenager.
As a teenager, especially likemaybe in my early twenties, it
(32:57):
would have been all right, but,um, as a teenager it would have
been all right, but as ateenager I would have been
crushed.
So I think that I think that'svery difficult.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
Agreed.
There's some ways that we canuse media literacy now that I
feel like didn't even existbefore, like we didn't know that
those magazine images wereairbrushed, like that wasn't
something that was reallydiscussed, and so now I feel
like there is this awareness of,like, the filters and how it's
like fake in some ways orinaccurate, but I think we still
(33:29):
, our brains, don't rememberthat when we're scrolling social
media and we have so many moreinputs of that too that it's
just, yeah, it's like in someways things have, yeah, shape
shifted and and we have a farways to go, and in other ways
there's at least a little morepresentation of some diversity
and appreciation of that.
That hopefully helps plant theseed for more to come.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Yeah, and thankfully now too, like something that's
becoming more common is that,like, social media platforms,
like, require you to like, saylike is this, is this AI?
Is this edited?
Is there a filter on it?
Like on YouTube specifically,like, every time I upload a
(34:13):
video for mind, your heart, orfor a client, or whatever, it's
always like is this contentaltered in any way?
Like under these things.
So it'll be like is your likeface edited, is this edited, or
whatever?
And if it is, then you have tolike, click that it is, or it'll
get flagged.
So, which I'm like.
(34:33):
I kind of love that because I'mlike then it's like painting a
real picture which, like it'slike you can have that content
on YouTube, but you just have tobe open about the fact that,
like, this isn't actually how itlooks like in real life.
So, um, I like that.
That's nice that transparencyfor sure yeah, yeah, because,
(34:56):
like Erica, like you said, it'slike you your brain doesn't
recognize that immediately.
So when like that's theresomewhere to be, like okay, like
this actually isn't real, justso you know, like it does give
you a little bit like, oh, okay,so I don't have to strive to be
like that because it's not evena real thing.
Speaker 4 (35:14):
You can do have pores , I guess yeah, yeah, yeah,
seriously, yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Um, I I would love to like hear like your opinion and
like kind of like the advicethat you would give to someone
like who is kind of like back.
Like when I was starting outwith you and I was like confused
and feeling like just like notknowing where to go and like my
biggest kind of hurdle felt likeit was that like I thought food
(35:46):
was good and bad, like what.
What would you say to thatperson if they were like
standing right in front of you,like what, what advice would you
give them?
Speaker 4 (35:57):
I think that as far as the morality and food, so
morality is saying this is goodor bad and why.
Why I think that way ofthinking around food and I'm a
dietitian, I'm trained in thescience of nutrition and
wellness I want people to bewell.
That's a huge reason that I amwho I am and why I do what I do.
(36:19):
But when we start tying thatmorality into it, it can get
tricky, because then it becomesabout you're a good or bad
person for consuming that food,or we lose nuance and context.
You know, okay, like how.
You know, oh, like you know,carbohydrates are bad.
That's been kind of the morerecent thing We've also lived
(36:39):
through.
Low fat and fat is bad.
And you know, oh, like you know, carbohydrates are bad.
That's been kind of the morerecent thing We've also lived
through.
Low fat and fat is bad, and youknow whatever.
There's a million of these typeof trends and nutrition science
is always evolving.
So giving this person a verylong answer, but I just I think
there's a lot of nuance here andso I would want that person to
examine what good or bad meansaround food to them, because
(37:04):
most likely remember that I canguess what people with eating
disorders are thinking because Iunderstand the disease process
of having an eating disorder andthat's no offense to anyone.
I mean I, I had an eatingdisorder myself.
I love working with clients whohave eating disorders.
I have an understanding, I havea passion for it.
But I think it is important tosay your eating disorder is not
you, that's not how you think.
(37:25):
And so someone with an eatingdisorder is going to hear good
or bad in the service ofavoidance of gaining weight,
fear of gaining weight, fear ofa particular food leading to
weight gain, and that is theabsolute central belief and fear
of an eating disorder.
So, if, if, if, if someone saysthat food is bad, well, why?
Oh, because it gives me astomach ache, because of my
(37:47):
autoimmune condition.
I know I'm not a bad person ifI have it sometimes it happens,
but I know there will beconsequences for the medical
condition that I'm dealing with.
And eating disorder is fear andfear of weight gain, fear of
that food, and that's not even avanity aspect and it is an
anxiety disorder that has takenover in the brain.
And so that's why, likeovercoming your fear of foods,
(38:10):
dismantling foods being good orbad, understanding how food can
serve you in your body is thehallmark of the recovery, the
antithesis of an eating disorder, and so I would be so excited
for that person to be at thebeginning of that journey.
I would feel overwhelmed forthem knowing how much they have
ahead, but I would be hopefulabout hey, they are starting to
(38:34):
realize that the way they'rethinking and feeling about food
is at odds with other parts ofthemselves, and they want to
find a different way to thinkabout it and they're trying to
make sense of it yeah, I lovethat.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
That it's at odds with the other parts.
Yeah, that's really good.
Oh, I love that.
I'm just like so happy that youcame and did this.
Like I'm really really sograteful because I I was telling
Jacob I'm like you know, likeErica was like a, like you were
a turning point for me, like youoh, I could start crying.
(39:07):
I I just like am very gratefulfor you and like and I've told
you this before and now I'mfrozen again.
I just feel like there was.
I just needed you, I needed yourwisdom, I needed what you were
(39:28):
able to offer and like for youto show up in a way that like I
hadn't seen, like in, especiallyhealth care providers.
Like, and like as a woman, likeexperiencing different health
care providers making thingsworse and then showing up and it
(39:50):
being like just such a safety,like such a safe person to talk
to, and like like you're saying,like you're like I just know
like how it feels it.
It was, that's how it was.
It was like every time I waslike oh, this is how I feel.
And then you were like is itlike this and this?
And I'm like yes, oh, thank you.
(40:12):
Like it was like finally likesomebody like was hearing what I
was saying and like validatingit and then also getting me to
the next step.
So I'm just I'm very gratefulfor you and like all that, like
you are a part of and my journeyand like I just think I'm like
anybody listening to this.
Just at least look into Erica,like follow her on Instagram, do
(40:36):
whatever you need to do and ifyou need support, like you are
the person to go to.
That's how I feel, so thank youfor being here.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
Absolutely.
Thank you so much for having meand just these conversations
that you are having.
I think you know one of thethings that you recognized early
on in your journey was thatthere wasn't an awareness that
you had.
You just knew something feltoff.
And so these conversations thatyou all are having on this
podcast are creating awarenessin people and knowing that
(41:08):
there's other ways to thinkabout it and how to get to a
place that feels good.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
So before we go, we like to do a couple of like just
lightning round questions, soI'm going to ask you just a
couple random questions, ifthat's okay with you, sure, okay
, um, I really.
I read this question.
I was like this is such a coolquestion.
What would, what would it be ifyou had a personal theme song
(41:35):
that played whenever you walkedinto a room?
Speaker 4 (41:48):
I'm trying to think of something that's not early
2000s rap, whatever you want,when Stefani came to mind for
some reason.
Okay, yeah to mind for somereason.
Okay, yeah, I don't know whichsong of hers, but the energy
that she put out in the early2000s and the late 90s was like
(42:09):
I'm here, I'm arrived.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
No, I know I was like .
I read that question I'm like,ooh, what would it be like
walking and being like, yes,here I am, am okay.
Um, what's the first concertyou attended?
Speaker 4 (42:25):
Aerosmith oh cool 90s Aerosmith big ones tour that's
so cool, was it awesome it?
It was, and I have cracked upseeing the memes of Steven Tyler
now where I mean he's like aneccentric man that is an artist
(42:46):
and a legend.
But it's hilarious to see themlike memes, saying like oh you
know, he looks like your stepmomor something because he's got
this long hair still and wildscarves and all the things
that's crazy, so funny still andwild scarves and all the things
.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Okay, and then last one what is your favorite food?
If you could pick any food orany meal, what would it be?
Chicken Parmesan.
Speaker 4 (43:14):
Yum, italian through and through, and I know that's
like a basic dish, but it's aclassic that I've always loved.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
Yes, yeah and done well.
Oh, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
So good.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
Well, thank you for being here.
Is there anything that like iscoming up for you, any events,
anything that you want to sharethat like people can find you
Great question.
Speaker 4 (43:39):
I mostly these days I have a couple of speaking
events locally in Columbus, ohio.
But online world, I really justbeen meeting with people
one-on-one.
I am on Instagram.
Still, I haven't been as activerecently, not because I'm not
home, I've just been really busywith some of these more local
events and I think I love socialmedia.
(44:01):
I love connecting with people.
I love the variety of peoplethat I've met through it.
I just noticed kind of comingout of COVID I wasn't on it
quite as much so basicallythat's a long way of me saying
like I have my podcast, I havemy Instagram, I have a lot of
older posts that are just sovaluable.
I would repost them over andover again because there's so
(44:23):
much there.
Um, but anyone's welcome toreach out to me through my bio,
through my website, if they wantto work with me or they just
they just have questions.
Um, I can be reached directlythrough my website at aligned,
aligned nutritioncom.
Awesome, aligned with an L, elike a.
Maybe you can put it in thenotes with the E, d, not aligned
(44:44):
nutrition.
Aligned, yes, yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
Yeah, all of that will be um, in the description,
um.
So if you're watching onYouTube, it'll be in the
description link to Instagram,her website, all that good stuff
, um.
And then if you're listening,it'll be in the show notes on
whatever platform you're on.
So, yeah, thank you again forbeing here.
We appreciate you so much.
Speaker 4 (45:07):
Thank you for having me Wonderful speaking with you.
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