December 23, 2024 • 53 mins
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Have you ever found yourself at a crossroads, facing life's inevitable changes with a mix of fear and hope? On this episode of Mind Your Heart Podcast, Trina and I, Emily, invite you into our personal journeys as we tackle the transitions that life has thrown our way. From becoming an empty nester to transforming old spaces into new beginnings, we open up about the roller coaster of emotions that accompany these shifts. Our conversation touches on repurposing childhood rooms, the bittersweet farewells with beloved pets, and the fresh paths our family now finds itself on.
Bold decisions and unexpected turns often define the paths we must walk. We explore Jackson's inspiring leap from working at Subway to entering college life, highlighting the courage it takes to embrace the unknown. His story of facing fears, overcoming academic challenges, and the impact of parental choices is a testament to resilience and personal growth. Alongside Jackson's journey, Trina's courageous career pivot from teaching to navigating a pandemic-induced shift in professional life offers insights into the power of embracing failure as a stepping stone to success.
Relationships, personal struggles, and deep transformations are at the heart of our narrative, shedding light on complex family dynamics, mental health challenges, and the pursuit of self-awareness. As we share stories of emotional abuse, co-dependency, and the quest for fulfillment, we emphasize the vital role of support systems in overcoming life's hurdles. From the beauty found in tragedy to the power of shared experiences, join us as we mind our hearts and encourage you to find strength, connection, and growth in the myriad of experiences life brings.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, welcome to Mind your Heart Podcast, your
favorite corner of the internetwhere we chat about all things
mental health.
I'm Emily.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
And I'm Trina.
Together, we're like yourreal-life Lorelai and Rory
Gilmore.
Each week, we'll bring you realconversations about the world
of mental health and we willpeel back layers on topics like
anxiety, depression and muchmore.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
We're here to chat with you about the tough stuff,
the everyday stuff andeverything in between.
So grab your emotional supportwater bottle I know we have ours
.
Find your comfiest chair orkeep your eyes on the road and
let's get into it.
Are you ready, mom?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Absolutely.
Join us as we mind our heartsand hopefully make minding yours
a little easier.
Hey Hi, welcome.
Welcome back to Mind your Heart, thanks, thanks for welcoming
me.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Well, you know, we're trying to get our groove.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
here.
We're trying to figure out howwe want to come into our
episodes, so you're going totake that journey with us and
maybe you'll even give us somefeedback yeah, or some ideas.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yeah, like, how do you want us to address you?
Hello friend, I know here weare.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Here we are because I , I think I mentioned on the
introduction episode that I havetwo podcasts and one that is
for teachers and one that's forteacherpreneurs, and I'm always
like, hey, into the into afterthe music plays, yeah, um, but I
don't know if that's our thing,so I think we're going to
figure that out.
But anyway, today's episode isall about we're kind of want you
(01:37):
to get to know us a little bitand to kind of hear our like,
where we're coming from, and sowe're gonna focus on, like, our
journey, our story, and share abit about that for the next two
episodes.
So that'll be this episode andthen next week's episode will be
a continuation, more of a focuson emily's, on emily's
(01:59):
perspective, and so it's alittle vulnerable yeah, I know
I'm a little nervous.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Welcome to our open counseling session.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Yeah, this is all about us.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yes yes, we have massive egos.
Here we go.
Just kidding, that was a jokeno, that does.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah, it kind of sounds like that um okay, okay.
So do you want to like ask mequestions?
You want me to just kind ofintroduce myself a little bit?
Speaker 1 (02:28):
I can ask you questions.
Okay, Okay, so like yeah, Iguess the classic interview
question is tell me a little bitabout yourself, Trina.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
All right, well, I am .
My name is Trina Debery and Iam a single mom, but with two
grown kids, I'm an empty nester.
I do have a dog baby, um forbaby.
His name is Kobe and he's thebest dog in the world Franklin
(02:57):
Debery Kobe.
Franklin Debery.
He's the greatest and um I'm,I'm just an empty nester for a
year.
So I I have my sweet Emily, whois 24 and.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I almost thought you were gonna say 22, for some
reason yeah and in my head I waslike am I how old?
Am I like?
I forgot how old I was?
For 24, you're.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah.
So, my sweet Emily, when Emilyleft, it was a really that was
hard.
It was a hard transition.
The thing that made that okaywas that I took her bedroom and
made it into my office, so thatwas actually a win.
Yeah, but it was a difficulttransition.
And she also took the cat, mycat Tebow.
(03:41):
All right, wait Pause.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Hold on here.
I didn my cat, okay, all right,wait, pause hold on here.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
I didn't think I was taking the cat you told me to
take tebow, I didn't tell you totake.
Yes, I asked you if you wantedto take.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Oh, no, no, no yeah, really, because I was like fully
assuming that she was gonnastay with you and then you were
like, so like you're takingTebow right and I was like I
didn't think I was taking her,and then you had said, well, she
just like loves you and Jake somuch Like I think it would be
best if she went with you.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
And I was like, okay, like are you sure about that?
And then you said, yes, so thiswas your idea.
I really did not expect to takeher.
I thought she was staying withyou.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
I don't remember.
It does sound familiar when yousay it that way, but I don't
know.
I think what I might have beenthinking was that it was going
to be really hard for me for youto go, and so I didn't think I
could bear watching it be hardfor Tebow, and so I thought I
(04:48):
don't want to do that to Tebowor to Emily, so I thought that
that would probably be thebetter choice.
I didn't realize how much Iwould miss Tebow and how hard,
like, how her physical presencelike made me feel, and so I was
like really that was really hard.
That was like a double whammy.
(05:09):
I had already like Jake hadmoved in, yeah, and so I was
already feeling that separationthat you kind of feel with your
adult children, and it hadalready been going on for a
while, so it wasn't as abrupt asit was when my son Jackson left
.
Yeah, because it was like moreof a transition.
(05:30):
Yeah, it was a transition andalso we went through your senior
year and you graduated.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
And we, like, knew that I was planning to move out.
Whereas, like Jackson, wedidn't know if he was going to
go to college or not.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Yeah.
That was kind of like a how,how it was like a month that he
decided that yeah, it was likehe came home one day and which I
guess is a part of my story.
Like he, he all right, so Ikind of feel like I have to
explain that part.
But he, he came home, he wasworking on on a construction
site.
He jackson stopped going tohigh school in 10th grade and he
(06:05):
I.
It was hard, it was a hardthing to to and you were a
teacher and I was a teacher.
I have been I was a teachersince 1997.
I left teaching in in 2018 andwas working full-time on my
business where I createresources for teachers with a
focus on comprehension andmakerspace and STEM and science,
(06:30):
and I yeah, I don't know what Iwas saying- you were talking
about Jackson leaving highschool.
So I, you know, was a lifelongeducator and so it was really
rough to have him not want to bein school.
I know he hated school, hasalways hated school, school has
always been a difficult thingfor him, and so he, I was fair
(06:53):
to him no, school wasn't fair tohim.
School definitely was not fairto him and I, his, his Jackson's
dad and I got divorced um whenJackson was 10.
So we had a very hard time.
Jackson and I had a really hardtime.
Um, we went through a periodwhere jackson was really angry
with me and really upset and um,he didn't speak to me for a
(07:15):
period of time, he was just athis dad's.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
It was very, very difficult um like I didn't even
really yeah, see him during thattime and he was still in high
school, Like when he wasn'ttalking to you, that was like.
And when he wasn't talking toyou, like there was like he
needed somebody to pick him upbecause dad couldn't like all
the time.
So that was really.
(07:38):
The only time I got to see himwas when I, like drove to pick
him up from school and then justtake him back to dad's.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
So, like I didn't even see him during that time
either, yeah, it was hard.
He was in a dark place too.
He was playing video gamesuntil all hours of the night and
he was.
He was just an unhappy teenagerand, um, my, his dad and I, we
did not see eye to eye on whatwas the best thing for him.
So it was hard, it was a hard.
It wasn't like I just was, youknow, said oh oh well he's not
(08:12):
going to school, like I wasupset.
But then I really embraced theidea of homeschooling him
because I wanted to give him anopportunity to change his mind.
So I registered him as ahomeschool student.
I did a lot of research andreading about unschooling and
allowing children to learn intheir natural timeline.
(08:35):
I got involved with somehomeschool groups so I did a lot
of focusing on that and tryingto understand and what Jackson
was clearly doing was homeschoolI mean unschooling, like every
aspect of school was not.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
He was having nothing to do with it this was kind of
after I had decided that Iwasn't going to college too,
right, yeah, so it was like yougot a double.
You got like here's, let meserve you a plate of uneducation
to a teacher, a longtimeteacher.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Who loved teaching?
Who loved teaching?
Speaker 1 (09:07):
and loved learning and like, really like, believed
in that for kids.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah.
So like both of your kids werelike no, I don't want anything
to do with it.
I don't want anything to do withwhat you dedicated your life to
, what I and I.
Part of the reason I chose thatprofession was because I wanted
to do something that made adifference for children, and
also I wanted to be home with myown children, and that was a
huge part of picking thatprofession.
(09:31):
And then it ended up like kindof hurting me as a mom because I
was so tired all the time and Ididn't want to have other
people's kids over sometimesbecause I didn't want to deal
with.
I didn't want to deal with.
I wanted to have some spacethat was sacred and and and so
it.
It didn't end up being as easyas I thought it was going to be
(09:52):
with teaching and you know, infact, like you guys, you lived
at school with me, yeah, andthere was like lots of late
nights where, and then I leftyou in the afterschool care and
I focused on school, and theneven in the summer I worked on
school, and so I really feellike it was actually like it
didn't didn't go the way that Ihad intended and it definitely
(10:12):
didn't go that way with with mychildren in school.
But what I do know about both ofyou is that I have full
confidence in your ability tomake decisions and to find your
way, and so that's the part thatI really held on to really
closely.
And so I I did embrace theunschool and homeschool and I
(10:34):
did start to understand thingsin a different way, and Jackson
and I allowed Jackson the spacethat he needed, because I had no
choice Like I had no choice.
He was away from me.
I would just text himperiodically and tell him how
much I loved him and that I wasthere with open arms If he, when
and if he ever wanted to comehome.
(10:56):
He had a place at home and Ijust held on to that as much as
I could and I prayed all thetime and I was very sad and it
was a really hard time.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
But then he eventually came home.
I honestly think that wasprobably like one of the biggest
lessons that, like you taughthim, though in that time, and
obviously like I can't speak forJackson I'm not speaking for
Jackson, but from what I'veheard that he's said and like
the way, even recently, likewhen we did those affirmations
for you, like through themindset thing that you were
doing, um, like the, the thingthat came up for him and for me
(11:33):
was like the unconditional lovethat you have always shown us
like, no matter what, and Ithink that was like such a
massive lesson for him in thatmoment because everything he was
doing was conditional.
It was like sports wasconditional on his physical
health all the time, and likehow he performed and then school
(11:57):
was conditional on how heshowed up when he couldn't help
that he had specific learningdisabilities that no one was
paying attention to.
His friends were conditional onif he was making this decision
or that decision and like eventhrough our dad, like there was
conditions.
So like it was like you werethe constant, like unconditional
(12:18):
love that he had seen.
And I feel like he like neededthat and like, even though that
period of time where you weren'ttalking was not ideal, and
obviously like if we could goback in time and unwish that to
happen, like that would be whatwe would choose, but like in the
same way it came out of it, himbeing able to learn what
(12:42):
unconditional love feels likeand knowing that he can accept
it.
Even when he feels angry orupset or whatever, like he can
still feel his feelings and beloved as well.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
I felt like that was really important.
Um, I also wanted to show him adifferent way of behaving Um,
because I felt like I mean his,his dad and I got divorced.
It was an emotionally abusivemarriage.
It was unhealthy, an unhealthymarriage that I stayed in for a
very long time and, um, I wantedhim to see that there was
(13:17):
another way.
I wanted both of you to seethat there was another way of
behaving and living your life,and so I just tried to stay as
open as possible and I also Ithought of like that story in
the Bible where you know it'slike the prodigal son returns
and you have to have like acomplete open heart and open
(13:39):
mind.
And so I did.
And then he did come back to meand our relationship is so
different now Like he he is, Ijust adore him and I know that
he loves me like deeply and Imean it is.
It is like it is so differentand we also like we went through
(14:00):
some hard times, like we had toadjust with each other.
We had I found it really easyto slip back into the
dysfunction that I had with yourdad, I.
I felt like it was whathappened with Jackson, because
Jackson, like, takes on some ofthose characteristics at times
and they would trigger me and sowe would trigger each other,
(14:21):
and then it was like but welearned to communicate
differently, which is somethingI never was able to figure out
with your dad.
But with Jackson, like we wouldjust adjust just a bit and it
would go in a differentdirection and it was like it
made such a difference.
I mean, we're not perfect,we're still like every once in a
(14:41):
while, but yes, but they.
But it was, it was just such, itwas, I don't know.
It was really life changing.
And then jackson got a job atsubway and jackson was like you
know, coming out of his funk,yeah and um, and starting to
like, explore the other parts ofhimself, like his.
He's got a really highemotional intelligence.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
He's very aware of people's feelings and he so he
doesn't have like he got thingsfrom from both of us and he's a
very hard worker yeah yeah, likereally dedicates himself yeah
like that was like shownimmensely when he was working at
subway yeah, I mean he wasworking the same amount of hours
(15:24):
as a manager and he that washis first job.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
That was his first job, yeah and um.
So he did that.
And then he went to work on aconstruction site.
His dad helped him get the jobs.
Dad is in that line of work andum runs a company.
And then, and jackson, like itwas grueling, he would come home
from the job site filthy, dirty, exhausted.
(15:47):
It was an exhausting job, yes,very tan.
And so then one day he camehome and said I want to go to
college, and this wasn't thatlong ago.
And then he I'm like, all right, well, you got to get your ged
first, and I'm thinking it'sgoing to take a while.
It didn't.
He got it like right away.
Had to take math, I think twice, maybe three times I feel like
it took him like less than twomonths yeah, it was really fast.
(16:10):
I mean, he passed everythingelse right away, which was I was
shocked.
Yeah and um, and then heapplied to a college in
Gainesville and got accepted andit was all crazy, and then he
was gone.
So that empty nest was not whatI was expecting because there
was no transition.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
There was no transition?
No, because you, we didn't eventhink he wanted to go to
college yeah like he was justworking, like there was no
thought or conversation reallyabout like yeah, I wanna I knew
he wanted to do.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
He wanted to do more, yeah, but we didn't know when
we didn't know what path thatlooked like like yeah he
definitely like we had someforeshadowing of where he was,
like I'm got to get out of thistown, I got to be more than this
, I don't want to be stuck here,and he would have these moments
of revelation and I'm like thiskid's got to do something.
(16:58):
He's going to do something, he'sgoing to figure it out, and and
.
So you know he's now, he's incollege and and and it's not
super easy for him.
He's's like struggling, had totake some things more than once,
but he is like learning such adifferent life that I'm not even
as concerned about, like whenhe graduates or if he figures
(17:20):
that part out.
I love the experiences he'sgetting and the people that he's
like, people that are totallydifferent than he is that he's
meeting and like his roommatelike they're good friends but
they're complete opposites and Ilove that he gets to experience
these things and like just growup in a different way.
So so I'm excited about thatfor him and he'll figure it out,
(17:43):
and I believe that about bothof you, I'm like you'll figure
it out and I also did it afraidlike yeah, he did it.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
He was scared, yeah, he was scared to death and he
did it anyways, and that wasanother thing that like you had
taught us like that, like Idefinitely, like I noticed that
right away, but I think like helike almost like soaked it in
and then like had to like liveit out, and then he was like
okay, like I can do this, afraidlike that was something that
(18:12):
you used to say to me all thetime, like I'd be like I'm
scared and you'd be like wellthen, we're gonna do it scared
like you don't have to not bescared.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
That's like bad advice when people say that like
, oh, just don't be scared, yeahlike I hate when people say
that because it's like, well,that's not changing anything.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
It's like when people say like, well, don't be sad.
Like oh, gee, thanks yeah yeah,fixed like that's not how it
works, but like just doing itthat way anyways was like a
massive lesson that you hadtaught us in so many different
ways I mean like, even likeleaving, like leaving like a
(18:48):
relationship that you had beenin for so long that you had two
kids with but, like that wasscary.
like it's not like terrifying,yeah, and we didn't have like
all this money, yeah, ready tojust leave and be like all right
, we're good.
Like it was like you had toreally like rely on people and
like, yeah, you weren't used todoing that.
Like you are very independentperson and so I feel like I
(19:15):
don't know, like that wassomething that, like we both
like took from you is like beingable to like just do it afraid
and then like make something outof it like make something out
of it.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Wow, I, I mean, I appreciate that because you know
, you think that you're doingall these things and making
these mistakes and you don't see.
You don't see some of yourchoices and how they impact your
children.
Also because you're not,sometimes they don't tell you.
Sometimes you, you know, youdon't, you don't know, and yeah
and um, and so I just Iappreciate that so much and I
know that jackson, he has saidthe same thing.
(19:53):
I think I don't know if he seesme leaving as something that I
did afraid or that I did in abrave way.
I think there's still someresistance when it comes to that
.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Yeah, I think he definitely has a much different
perspective and, like again,like I don't know what, that,
yeah, and he wants to come onand talk.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
So really, yeah, cool , yeah, that would be good.
Yeah, um, so yeah I don't know.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
I know it was much different for him than it was
for me it was like two totallydifferent, like if you were to
watch it in a movie, like themovies would be two different
movies two totally differentmovies, but yeah I think there
was alsothree different movies yeah, I
mean like all four of us likefour, yeah had different
experiences.
It's just the reality of life,really is the perspective of
(20:36):
everyone is different, yeah, butI also think, like that he does
, it doesn't go unnoticed thatyou, even though he didn't want
you to leave At least that'swhat my perception of how he
felt was.
Maybe that's not true.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Jackson yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Yeah, he still saw you do something that you
decided was best for you and allof us.
And that you were afraid andthat you did it anyways.
And then you continued afterthat to make decisions that were
scary and do those afraid to solike.
For me, like the big one waslike leaving, but like I also
(21:16):
like that's not.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
That's not the only thing no, because jackson's so
many jackson's thing that hereferences is me leaving
teaching.
Yeah, um, and I was terrified.
I'm like how am I gonna?
I pulled out my retirement,which was, you know, not
financially wise.
Yeah and um, I bet on myselfyeah and I was scared to death.
How am I gonna take care ofthese two kids?
(21:38):
Because I did not have.
I had 125 a month for support,that's it.
So I had no support and I waslike, like, yeah, half groceries
Exactly.
And so I'm like, how am I goingto do this?
And I needed my business incometo as a supplement to my
(21:59):
teaching income.
So now I had to come up with myteaching income and the
supplement, and so it was superoverwhelming and scary and I did
that.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
And then I actually feel, and I say failed, I don't
mean fail as in I think you cansay fail yeah, I failed because
this is I was talking to um thewomen that I went on the retreat
with recently I went on aretreat um to Bali and we were
we did like a reconnection callum and one of the facilitators
(22:31):
of the retreat was like yeah,like I feel like we've kind of
like failed in this motion to dolike what they thought the
business was gonna be andthey're like basically
recreating it to be somethingdifferent and like taking a
little more time and what haveyou yeah but I was like the way
that she had said it.
She was like, yeah, like I've Ifailed and like what I and I was
(22:54):
like, well, let me like stopyou for a second, because I mean
, I did my graduation speech onthis literally.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
I did my graduation speech on failure.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Yeah, um like good luck.
We all failed yeah um, but Idon't think that's a bad thing.
I think we've positionedfailure the word as a negative.
Yeah, like more derogatory word, but like it's not, because
with failure, like withoutfailure, there's no success
(23:23):
there's no success and there'sno way of figuring out what's
right, yeah, or not right, butwhat is a different option?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Yeah, and that is Like what works yeah, what works
.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
And like what doesn't work yeah, If you don't fail,
then like you don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Like, then what?
Like everything just worked outfor you.
Like that kind of sounds like aboring ass life yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Sorry, but like it just does so, so I did okay.
So I failed, I didn't, Icouldn't, I couldn't make enough
money, um, or enough that youknow, and I like I was in
trouble.
Yeah, I felt like I was introuble so I had to go back into
the school system, or I feltlike I had to go back in the
school system.
I don't really think that I hadto.
I think that I felt like I hadto at the time I was.
I fear was just ruling mythoughts and it was all you knew
and it was all I knew.
And I, I didn't I.
But I did feel like I feltterrible about it.
(24:15):
I felt so upset I didn't wantto.
I resisted it.
I went on the interview.
I was like I don't even carebecause I don't want this job,
and I just laid it all out there.
I just told him everything thatI thought about education and
how I thought and what I thoughtabout teaching.
And my principal loved it likeit was crazy.
My assistant principal wantedto hire her friend.
(24:35):
So she was like oh great, um,she's like she's answering it
like she.
You could tell that she waslike oh man.
But so the principal called melike after the interview and was
like I want you know, I wantyou to take this job, I don't
want you to go somewhere else.
And, um, and it was the worstjob I've ever had, like I was a
(24:56):
student support specialist.
It was hell.
Yeah it was hell.
I was dealing with behaviorproblem after behavior problem
all day long, every day.
Teachers were angry.
I wasn't used to teachers beingangry with me.
I usually was helping teachersand fighting for teachers and
I'm like I felt like I wasfighting against teachers in
this case and it was soupsetting and so awful.
(25:19):
And then you like re got sickyeah, I did, I got, yeah, I was
like so stressed like physically, physically because I I also
have an autoimmune disease.
I have um I don't have ra ittested negative, but I have a
positive ana, so it's basicallyis ra, so they treat it like ra
and um it's it's pretty much inremission at this point, but it
(25:43):
flares up with stress.
So it was just a really hardtime.
And then the pandemic happened,which felt like a blessing to
me.
I know it's not a blessing andit was terrible for so many
people.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
But it was a blessing for some people.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
You're right and I guess you feel guilty about that
in a sense.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Yeah, I mean, but like that's the same thing, like
there, that's the way that theworld is.
There are so many things thatlike are not great for some
people and are really great forother people and that doesn't
make it like good for the people, it's bad for.
And it doesn't make it bad forthe people, it's good for, it's
just different.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
No, bad for the people, it's good for, it's just
different.
No, you're right.
So, um, so I got to help.
I got to help teachers online.
I got to help parents.
I got to help kids.
I got to meet kids every dayand have like the best
conversations with them,sometimes just meet for lunch
and like sit on the computertogether and, um, I it was.
And then I also figured out howto work from home, because that
(26:44):
was what was lacking the firsttime, so I really focused on my
business.
I also also was part of aconference that we did online.
It was called STEM con.
It was incredible.
It was like educators that areexcited about innovation and
inquiry and hands-on and outsidethe box thinking, and it was
like all my people in one placeand it was the best experience,
(27:08):
and so there were so many goodthings that were happening and
and then my business like you,came to help me with my business
and we made like a hundredproducts which is basically how
I started my business.
Yeah, so yeah which is so crazy.
And um yeah, because we'regoing to talk about Emily's
story as well and we.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
There's a little teaser, yeah, so come back next
week um, mind your heart nextweek.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Um, so it was.
And then it grew like mybusiness grew, and it was.
It was like a game changer.
And then I, I was able, I didstay at that school the next
year.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
I came back after, after COVID, and I was the media
specialist, which was muchbetter yeah, I was gonna say
that year was it wasn't great,but it was better, it wasn't
great because I had a reallynasty micromanaging assistant
principal.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
If it hadn't been for her, I could have done that job
.
I could have continued doingthat job because I loved the
kids and I was having fun.
Like I was focused on gettingkids excited about reading.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Kids were reading.
That's your shit.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Yeah, kids were like kids were reading.
While they were walking in thehallways, people were people who
didn't even like me were like,oh my gosh, what are you doing?
It was unbelievable.
And then I had the best newscrew and it was just, it was so
fun, but I knew that that shewasn't going to be able to stay
out of my business, and shedidn't.
(28:34):
And then they were going to putme on the rotation and I was
like you know what?
I think I'm done, I think Ineed to be done again.
Yeah, so I quit again and and itwas both times were like a
grieving process, because itfelt like I was leaving a part
of myself behind, because it wassomething that I was actually
really good at, and andsometimes I want to tell people
(28:56):
in my present life like I was areally good teacher, but you
know, yeah, and I was a reallygood teacher, but you know, yeah
, and and I'm like that makes mefeel kind of sad because it's a
part of me that is, it'sdifferent, it's changed muscle.
You don't get to.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
yeah, hands on exercise anymore yeah like
you're doing it through, like athrough someone else yeah
because you, like you, still arean incredible teacher, like
you'll never not be anincredible teacher.
It's just that you're doing itdifferently.
Yeah, it's so different.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
So now I'm making things for teachers and I'm
hoping to help them inspire adeep love of learning.
That's what I'm very passionateabout.
I want kids to love to learn.
I think it will make thedifference.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Well, it's always been about the kids for you.
Yeah that's the difference oflike doing what you're doing now
is that you can't see thatcan't see it.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
I can see it in feedback, when people for sure,
and I get so happy when theytell me that the kids love it
Like I'm.
Like I'm glad the teacher likesit too, because I want to be
helpful.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
But I also just love when, the, when they tell me
that the kids love it.
That just I don't know thatmakes such a huge difference.
But I, I don't know, like that,that part of me, you know it
has changed so much and I alsodidn't realize how much I miss
like physical connection.
Like you know, I'm home bymyself with my dog and, um, you
(30:23):
know, your body like kind ofyearns for a physical touch, and
I don't mean that in ainappropriate way, I mean well,
I mean like sexual physicaltouch isn't inappropriate no,
you're right, in a sexual wayyou're right.
You mean no, I don't mean itthat way.
I'm saying you don't mean it.
Yeah, I don't mean it that way,you mean it.
And just like a, the act ofbeing touched, yes, loved and
(30:45):
and when kids, you know, swarmed, you know, on you, like, yeah,
you know, all jumped up at onetime and hugged you and like
little kindergartners, likethinking you were a superhero,
that is such a great feeling.
Yeah, you feel like a rock staryeah you do feel like a rock
star, you know, walking on thehalls and the kids are excited,
um, it is a good feeling and Imiss those hugs and that
(31:07):
connection and that part hasbeen, has been, a struggle.
So, but you know, I also knowthat I can't be in a school
system be, you know, my health,my, um, mental health, like I'm
just too frustrated with whatwe're doing in schools.
The whole idea of standardizedcrap and testing, and you know,
(31:30):
we, they tell us todifferentiate and then we have
to standardize.
That doesn't even make sense.
I could go on and on about that.
I won't, but, um, but so I havea lot of frustration towards a
system that I think is not asystemic.
It is a systemic issue and it'snot good for teachers and it's
not good for children, yeah, andit makes me angry and so I get
(31:50):
angry, and so that is, you know,part of it, but anyway, so, so,
so I, I mean based that I likeis there anything I left out
about my?
I mean, I was married for 17years, like I married the person
that I fell in love with when Iwas 18, 19 years old.
Um, I had a really lowconfidence.
(32:12):
I didn't think I deservedbetter or to be respected, I
guess.
I mean, I look back and I'mlike there are so many things
that I'm like, oh my gosh, likewhat was I thinking?
And, um, and that was one thingthat I tried so hard, especially
(32:34):
with you as a daughter I wanted, um, you to like believe in
yourself and then it didn'talways translate that way and
like you to feel good about yourand then it didn't always
translate that way and like youto feel good about your body and
yourself and you're in your ownskin and your confidence to do
things.
And I don't think it translatedthat way.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
I think sometimes, like I, you know, there's things
that happened that I knowyou'll talk about next week,
that that I'm'm, that I just amlike, oh, like but at the same
time, like like I get whatyou're saying and like I know,
like I hear like that, that Iknow that that's hard for you
and that, like whenever even Italk about like how it was
(33:15):
perceived for me, like growingup, that it's hard for you, but
at the same time, like you haveto think about like that's not
just like you Like there's likea line of things like in like
generations of like taught andlike not even just
generationally but likesociety-wise to look at
(33:39):
ourselves, love ourselves,dislike ourselves as women
specifically, is like you can'tput all of that just on you no,
you're like, you didn'tnecessarily have the resources.
No, that's true to knowdifferently and like so, like,
whenever you think about that,like I don't blame you, like
(33:59):
there's not like blame, likeblame that I put on you, I think
that there is, like there'sjust so much to it, Like it's
not just that black and white,Like there's so much gray to
that, and like I also don't wantyou to hold like that blame,
Okay, Because like then you'retaking on generations worth of
(34:21):
trauma.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
No generations of.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Yeah, you're right societal norms that have been
taught over decades and decadeslike that's.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
That's not no, you're , that's not on you all right,
well, anyway.
So I did um sorry, I didn't meanno, it's all right, I, I just
don't think I valued myselfenough.
Anyway, anyway, we um ended upgetting married.
We were married for 17 years.
I um stayed for a long timebecause I thought that I
(34:54):
honestly thought that he, Ithought he was a good dad, and I
thought that, um, I thoughtthat, um, I thought that you, I
thought you both really lovedhim and that it would be really
confusing for you.
But then I also think I wasalso really scared and I was
also very, um, codependent Iguess I hate that word, but um,
(35:18):
I didn't want to leave like, Ididn't want to not be married, I
wanted to be married.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yeah, and I, um.
I wanted him to love all of us.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
I didn't want to leave, like I didn't want to not
be married.
I wanted to be married, yeah,and I, um, I wanted him to love
all of us.
I didn't, you know, I, I wantedhim to be healthy, like drinking
and things like that werereally difficult and and a lot
of our relationship changedbecause when I had you which
I've told you before you changedmy life you were a gift, you
(35:50):
were what I prayed about andwanted my whole life, and I
remember thinking, even when,when your dad and I were dating,
that I, I like, if we break up,I'll have to meet someone else,
we'll have to fall in love.
When will I ever have a baby,like the baby part was, so I
wanted a baby so badly, um, butI didn't.
(36:13):
I thought I was gonna give youlike an example of love, but I
didn't understand that thatwasn't like pure good love and
that there was a lot ofconditions with it and um, but I
, I wanted to be better, like Iwould, like you know, have some
(36:35):
drinks and whatever with him andnot there's no judgment there
but um, but I didn't want youguys growing up in a house.
I didn't want you to grow up ina house like that yeah, and I
think it.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
You're saying there's no judgment for people who do
like drink, like yeah especiallylike.
Of course, there's not yeah but, like, the thing that I think
where you're coming from is that, like that's not who you were
or wanted to be.
It's not something you actuallyreally enjoyed, it's not
something that really made youfeel good and you were doing it
because you felt pressured.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Pressured, yeah, almost like a peer pressure.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
And he was.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
He would get mad when I didn't want to.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Well, I mean he really was an undiagnosed
alcoholic?
I don't know anymore, yeah, Idon't know, yeah, anymore, yeah,
I don't know either.
Um, yeah.
So like when you're, and alsolike I'm sure subconsciously
there's probably a part of youthat's like, if I do this thing
that I'm not comfortable reallydoing, that I don't really like
doing, I'm also kind of enablingthe behavior that I also don't
(37:38):
want, they don't want.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Yeah, but he's so much he's nicer to me sometimes,
but sometimes not hit or miss,so you just never knew.
Yeah, so it was.
You're right, it wasn'tsomething that I wanted
necessarily to do, that I everreally wanted to do, I mean,
even when I was a teenager,doing that, um so drinking sucks
(37:59):
.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Yeah, I mean, it makes me feel terrible.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
The next day like I have, and I don't mean sick, I
mean like mentally depressedyeah, and depressing yeah and I
have depression and anxiety andadd and dyslexia, so it really
messed me up and so I and you'reallergic to yeast yeah, yeah,
that's true, you're literallyallergic to alcohol.
(38:23):
Yeah, I was like oh yeah, theswelling.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Yeah, so when you came along, I wanted to be
better.
I wanted to be a better mom, Iwanted to be a better person, I
wanted to raise you and thisideal whatever and I just wanted
better for you.
I had, like you know, visionsof like my family was a broken
family.
I didn't want you to have abroken family.
(38:50):
And then, um, and then I justkept wanting to be better and
that was conflicting with whatour, what our relationship was.
So we didn't know how.
And then there was a period oftime where I really wanted to
have a second baby and I don'tknow if we were on the same page
with that, like I got really.
(39:11):
That's when I actually firststarted taking an antidepressant
, because I was so depressedabout it and um, and it took a
long time and surgery and otherwhatever, and it was a hard
thing to feel like you weregoing through by yourself, even
though you were with a partner.
So it was um, I don't know.
I mean my brother said it wasdoomed from the start and I
(39:32):
remember feeling so insulted bythat you guys were very opposite
though but we are very opposite.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
You're like the complete opposite of each other.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Yeah, and jackson says that too.
He's like.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Once he realized he's like oh, you guys never should
have been together yeah, I meanlike, even when you were like
together and we were younger,like I remember, like we used to
joke about it, like there wouldbe things that were like, it
was like you were literally theexact opposite.
Yeah, like it was like almost ajoke at that time, like, oh
(40:07):
well, opposite the track, Iguess, like, but it's like you
were very, very different andlike everything like and and not
even just in the like surfacelevel things like and the way we
thought about things politicsyeah, like the non-negotiable
part of things was likecompatibility.
Yeah, we were so different.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
We are, yeah, we are, well, we are so different and
um, yeah, but I really I guessalso there was like a false
sense of security with him Ifelt like I ran to him and I
seeked like protection andcomfort and like him to take
(40:46):
care of things, which is whereyou guys clicked yeah, because
he craved doing that.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Yeah, that was what he wanted to do for anyone.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
He wanted to, because he didn't have that himself.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Like he wanted to be the protector and like be like
the the provider yeah, like thethe man, like yeah quote,
unquote.
I hate when people say that,but that's what that was how he
was raised no, you're right.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
So that is when.
And then, when I became moreindependent at times, it was
like hurtful, it was hurtful,you're right.
And now it makes sense.
That actually makes more sense,like no wonder, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
And it was like the one way that you clicked it was
like oh shit, like this is yeahnot here, like what do we do
with this?
Yeah, and he didn't like heknocked me down, force it on you
instead yeah, he would knock medown.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
I don don't mean physically, but mentally, and so
it really was after likestarting counseling myself.
After my grandmother died andone of my friends died very
young.
I remember having what feltlike a nervous breakdown in our
house and I was like, and my momwas like you need to go to a
(42:02):
women's resource center and youneed to talk to someone.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
I didn't know.
Nanny was the one that told youthat, yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Nanny's the one that told me that, wow, and I put it
off, put it off, put it off forso long, probably years, and
then one day it was really badand I was like I do, and I
called and I made an appointmentand I met Jane and everything
changed.
I mean, it wasn't as simple asthat.
(42:28):
It was a long time ofcounseling and I didn't even
realize, like she didn't tell me, you're in an emotionally
abusive marriage.
I didn't know that.
I didn't know that for a whilewe worked together for a long
time before I realized.
I was like, why is she sharing?
Why is she sharing theseresources with me?
Why do I have to watch thesevideos?
Why am I like?
(42:50):
And then I was like, oh my gosh,yeah, you're talking about me,
yeah, and um, and I, and I waslike I, I didn't know what to do
with that, and I actually thinkthat could be a separate
episode you know about for sure,because there's so much to talk
about that there's a lot ofsteps that you, there's a lot of
steps.
And also I like resistedfeeling.
(43:11):
I didn't want to be a victim,but I also have things to say
about that too.
Yeah, so my judgment of ofwomen.
That's so unfair, so I feellike that would be a totally I
don't want a judgment ofyourself it is a judgment on
myself.
It definitely was a judgment onmyself, but it definitely.
Jane responded to that because,yeah, so that could be a whole
nother episode but um, but I dothink that I just felt like and
(43:37):
financially I didn't know whathow what I was going to do it
really was when tptT came along,which is Teachers Pay Teachers,
which is a marketplace forteacher authors to create things
for teachers.
It's kind of like an Amazon forteachers.
Anyway, yeah, that was when Ithought that there was any kind
of hope and that I might be ableto to, like, stand on my own
(44:01):
two feet and um, and so that's.
You know that that's how thatstarted, but that was that was
hell as well, so yeah, sobasically that's my story, yeah
yeah, um you thought you weregetting the light one yeah,
(44:25):
you're wrong.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
We're just jumping right on in there, yeah I think
that's good, though I I don'tknow.
I hate when people are liketrying to do like the small talk
yeah, garbage, yeah like ifyou're listening to this podcast
you're not here for like justshits and gigs.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
Yeah, we'll give you some of that.
But yeah, you're here becauseyou want to be heard and related
to and yeah, you're somebodyelse's story too, so yeah, Yep,
so so yeah, and now, where areyou now?
Speaker 2 (45:07):
where am I now?
We, I am on the other side ofthat, which is really I didn't
think it was possible, but Idefinitely, um, dreamed about it
, imagined it, um, I'm stillsingle.
It's been 10 years and I thinkthere's a part of me that's
scared to date, partly becauseI'm free, like I feel free, and
(45:31):
I didn't feel free for most ofmy life and nobody can control
me or tell me how to clean themicrowave or where to put things
in the refrigerator or what Ihave to do or what I can spend
money on or any of that.
And nobody's going to tell methat my brain doesn't work and
that I'm cold and dead insideand all the other things.
(45:52):
So I don't want to take anychances is kind of how I feel,
and also like I don't know if Iknow what love real love looks
like and um, and so I know somany people that have left their
marriage and then ended up withthe exact same kind of person,
(46:13):
and I I don't want that tohappen and also I don't.
I think that I would be morecompromising if I met the person
and you know, and fell in loveyeah because right now I don't
feel like compromising at all,but um, but I compromise for
Kobe, like I make concessionsfor my dog.
So, um, and you and Jackson, soI I know I'm capable of loving,
(46:35):
like I I know that kind of love.
I just don don't know likeromantic love and I'm kind of
scared and even like, even likethe intimate parts of a
relationship, I'm kind of scaredabout that.
I mean, 10 years, that's a longtime.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Yeah, Well, and then, like before that, you spent 17
years with the same person.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Yeah, I was the same person.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
Yeah, married Just 17 years with the same person.
Yeah, it was the same person.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
yeah, married just 17 years married and then, oh, and
all the years before that thatwe were together, yeah, so like
that's a long.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
That's like.
You're basically like my wholeadult life virgin like yeah,
that's gonna probably how itfeels I'd imagine.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
No, I probably.
Yeah, yeah, it does feel likethat, so it's a weird yeah.
So I um, for the most part,like most of the time, I don't
really feel lonely.
I do miss, like like I miss you, I miss doing stuff, I miss
like having people around me.
I miss, I miss having friendslike I used to.
(47:37):
I don't have friends like Iused to.
Um, you know, some peopledidn't survive the transition of
my life and I used to feel likeI was too much for people.
But I'm not.
I'm doing a lot of mindset workand I'm not gonna.
I'm not too much for people.
I am exactly what I am.
And for some people it's it'stoo, but that's that's their
(48:01):
issue, not my issue.
And um, and I'm sad, like I'msad that I lost people along the
way, people that I that reallyhelped me and that I loved
deeply.
Um, but I also understand that,like, as you grow, there's like
growing pains, and so that'skind of where I am right now.
I'm still really focused onbuilding my business and I want,
(48:25):
like I'm it's, it's beenstruggling for the last year and
a half and um as is the wholeentire world, as is the country,
yep and so, um, I'm working onthat, I'm, I'm, I'm like putting
one foot in front of the other,I'm trying to make some pivots
and I'm moving ahead and I havea very supportive family and I
(48:48):
feel loved from my family.
I don't, I just I don't feellike something's missing.
I do know that I I'm not happywith where I currently am, like
as far as living.
I feel like I'm, I feel likethere's supposed to be something
different about that.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Um, it's like the next phase though yeah it's like
I was kind of talking to Jakeabout this recently is like like
, because I was like, oh, youknow, sometimes I'm like, I'm
just tired of like it's like onefucking thing after the other.
Are we gonna class on thispodcast?
Well, I'm going to, okay, sowe're just gonna have to make it
(49:26):
explicit okay, um but that'show it feels.
Sometimes it's like one thingafter the other yeah and then.
But then I'm like at the sametime, like that's how it's gonna
be forever, like that is life,yeah, like it is one thing after
the other yeah and it's justlike being okay with like no,
I've been watching it.
(49:46):
Yeah, it's just being okay withwhatever the next thing is, and
like knowing that you can get tothe next thing.
And, like you, it was like you,you're going through all that,
you went through all that stuffyou just talked about, and then
there's been other things thathave come along, yeah, and now
it's like all right, here's yournext thing.
(50:08):
Yeah, you're gonna figure outwhere you want to do it again,
yeah and you'll figure it outand it'll, it'll all work out
and it won't.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
It won't come with no trials and tribulations but
yeah, because, um, if I were togo, if I were to go where I
think I want will rather be like, then that means I'm away from
you and I'm away from nanny andI'm away from jackson, and that
doesn't seem right, that doesn'tfeel aligned but also like in
(50:42):
this life that you're likepicturing like you could have
the means to fly back and forthor have two houses, or you know,
like who knows what that's trueand also um like don't limit
your imagination.
Maybe the like, the image visionboard, maybe the house with the
(51:04):
tree full grown trees and maybeit, maybe it doesn't.
Maybe it doesn't have to be inMaine, maybe it could be in
Florida if I could find theright like spot.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
So, um, or maybe you have one in Maine and one in
Florida, yeah, so For when itgets hot as hell here and so
cold there, You're right.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
So that's to be determined.
Yeah, tbd, tbd.
So yeah, that's a little bitabout me.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
You didn't know her before.
Speaker 2 (51:39):
You do now you do now and you'll learn even more in
the weeks to come, but you know,also, we want to offer this as
a as a support to you as well,and there's going to be topics
that we talk about that arespecifically, um, geared to you
know, focusing on us, not justfocusing on us.
Speaker 1 (51:59):
yeah, yeah, for sure, but for sure, but I think that
it's important that this isknown about both of us, because
one thing that I've found likewith like my more recent clients
that I'm working with, is likeI relate to them, like they
chose me to be their coachbecause, like they know that
(52:21):
I've been through what they'retrying to get through, like I am
no, like anomaly, like I amwhere they are right now and
like people need that.
Speaker 2 (52:33):
I agree, I totally agree.
Coaching for DCA, for DigitalCourse Academy.
I feel like the people thatjoin with me they know that,
like I'm not a super successfulcourse creator yet and but they
know that I I've been in thetrenches and also there's things
(52:55):
that I figured out, things thatI tried that they could avoid,
and also, having been through itso many times, I know it, like
I know and like and I'm can be,I mean, I'm supporting yeah, so
so you're right.
So I think, so, like these firstcouple episodes, like you'll be
(53:15):
learning more about us, yeahbut, we don't have massive egos,
so it won't continue to be justabout us, yeah yeah, so hold on
hang in there with us we'll getyou through this part right
here and um, and some of thetopics we were talking about
will be hard and heavy, yeah andum, but some things will be,
you know, really beautiful, andthere always will be beauty in
(53:39):
the tragedy anyway.
So we hope that you mind yourheart on Mondays and you stay
tuned.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:51):
Thanks for listening.
Hey, welcome to Mind your Heart Podcast, your
favorite corner of the internetwhere we chat about all things
mental health.
I'm Emily.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
And I'm Trina.
Together, we're like yourreal-life Lorelai and Rory
Gilmore.
Each week, we'll bring you realconversations about the world
of mental health and we willpeel back layers on topics like
anxiety, depression and muchmore.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
We're here to chat with you about the tough stuff,
the everyday stuff andeverything in between.
So grab your emotional supportwater bottle I know we have ours
.
Find your comfiest chair orkeep your eyes on the road and
let's get into it.
Are you ready, mom?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Absolutely.
Join us as we mind our heartsand hopefully make minding yours
a little easier.
Hey Hi, welcome.
Welcome back to Mind your Heart, thanks, thanks for welcoming
me.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Well, you know, we're trying to get our groove.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
here.
We're trying to figure out howwe want to come into our
episodes, so you're going totake that journey with us and
maybe you'll even give us somefeedback yeah, or some ideas.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yeah, like, how do you want us to address you?
Hello friend, I know here weare.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Here we are because I , I think I mentioned on the
introduction episode that I havetwo podcasts and one that is
for teachers and one that's forteacherpreneurs, and I'm always
like, hey, into the into afterthe music plays, yeah, um, but I
don't know if that's our thing,so I think we're going to
figure that out.
But anyway, today's episode isall about we're kind of want you
(01:37):
to get to know us a little bitand to kind of hear our like,
where we're coming from, and sowe're gonna focus on, like, our
journey, our story, and share abit about that for the next two
episodes.
So that'll be this episode andthen next week's episode will be
a continuation, more of a focuson emily's, on emily's
(01:59):
perspective, and so it's alittle vulnerable yeah, I know
I'm a little nervous.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Welcome to our open counseling session.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Yeah, this is all about us.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yes yes, we have massive egos.
Here we go.
Just kidding, that was a jokeno, that does.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah, it kind of sounds like that um okay, okay.
So do you want to like ask mequestions?
You want me to just kind ofintroduce myself a little bit?
Speaker 1 (02:28):
I can ask you questions.
Okay, Okay, so like yeah, Iguess the classic interview
question is tell me a little bitabout yourself, Trina.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
All right, well, I am .
My name is Trina Debery and Iam a single mom, but with two
grown kids, I'm an empty nester.
I do have a dog baby, um forbaby.
His name is Kobe and he's thebest dog in the world Franklin
(02:57):
Debery Kobe.
Franklin Debery.
He's the greatest and um I'm,I'm just an empty nester for a
year.
So I I have my sweet Emily, whois 24 and.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I almost thought you were gonna say 22, for some
reason yeah and in my head I waslike am I how old?
Am I like?
I forgot how old I was?
For 24, you're.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah.
So, my sweet Emily, when Emilyleft, it was a really that was
hard.
It was a hard transition.
The thing that made that okaywas that I took her bedroom and
made it into my office, so thatwas actually a win.
Yeah, but it was a difficulttransition.
And she also took the cat, mycat Tebow.
(03:41):
All right, wait Pause.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Hold on here.
I didn my cat, okay, all right,wait, pause hold on here.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
I didn't think I was taking the cat you told me to
take tebow, I didn't tell you totake.
Yes, I asked you if you wantedto take.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Oh, no, no, no yeah, really, because I was like fully
assuming that she was gonnastay with you and then you were
like, so like you're takingTebow right and I was like I
didn't think I was taking her,and then you had said, well, she
just like loves you and Jake somuch Like I think it would be
best if she went with you.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
And I was like, okay, like are you sure about that?
And then you said, yes, so thiswas your idea.
I really did not expect to takeher.
I thought she was staying withyou.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
I don't remember.
It does sound familiar when yousay it that way, but I don't
know.
I think what I might have beenthinking was that it was going
to be really hard for me for youto go, and so I didn't think I
could bear watching it be hardfor Tebow, and so I thought I
(04:48):
don't want to do that to Tebowor to Emily, so I thought that
that would probably be thebetter choice.
I didn't realize how much Iwould miss Tebow and how hard,
like, how her physical presencelike made me feel, and so I was
like really that was really hard.
That was like a double whammy.
(05:09):
I had already like Jake hadmoved in, yeah, and so I was
already feeling that separationthat you kind of feel with your
adult children, and it hadalready been going on for a
while, so it wasn't as abrupt asit was when my son Jackson left
.
Yeah, because it was like moreof a transition.
(05:30):
Yeah, it was a transition andalso we went through your senior
year and you graduated.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
And we, like, knew that I was planning to move out.
Whereas, like Jackson, wedidn't know if he was going to
go to college or not.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Yeah.
That was kind of like a how,how it was like a month that he
decided that yeah, it was likehe came home one day and which I
guess is a part of my story.
Like he, he all right, so Ikind of feel like I have to
explain that part.
But he, he came home, he wasworking on on a construction
site.
He jackson stopped going tohigh school in 10th grade and he
(06:05):
I.
It was hard, it was a hardthing to to and you were a
teacher and I was a teacher.
I have been I was a teachersince 1997.
I left teaching in in 2018 andwas working full-time on my
business where I createresources for teachers with a
focus on comprehension andmakerspace and STEM and science,
(06:30):
and I yeah, I don't know what Iwas saying- you were talking
about Jackson leaving highschool.
So I, you know, was a lifelongeducator and so it was really
rough to have him not want to bein school.
I know he hated school, hasalways hated school, school has
always been a difficult thingfor him, and so he, I was fair
(06:53):
to him no, school wasn't fair tohim.
School definitely was not fairto him and I, his, his Jackson's
dad and I got divorced um whenJackson was 10.
So we had a very hard time.
Jackson and I had a really hardtime.
Um, we went through a periodwhere jackson was really angry
with me and really upset and um,he didn't speak to me for a
(07:15):
period of time, he was just athis dad's.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
It was very, very difficult um like I didn't even
really yeah, see him during thattime and he was still in high
school, Like when he wasn'ttalking to you, that was like.
And when he wasn't talking toyou, like there was like he
needed somebody to pick him upbecause dad couldn't like all
the time.
So that was really.
(07:38):
The only time I got to see himwas when I, like drove to pick
him up from school and then justtake him back to dad's.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
So, like I didn't even see him during that time
either, yeah, it was hard.
He was in a dark place too.
He was playing video gamesuntil all hours of the night and
he was.
He was just an unhappy teenagerand, um, my, his dad and I, we
did not see eye to eye on whatwas the best thing for him.
So it was hard, it was a hard.
It wasn't like I just was, youknow, said oh oh well he's not
(08:12):
going to school, like I wasupset.
But then I really embraced theidea of homeschooling him
because I wanted to give him anopportunity to change his mind.
So I registered him as ahomeschool student.
I did a lot of research andreading about unschooling and
allowing children to learn intheir natural timeline.
(08:35):
I got involved with somehomeschool groups so I did a lot
of focusing on that and tryingto understand and what Jackson
was clearly doing was homeschoolI mean unschooling, like every
aspect of school was not.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
He was having nothing to do with it this was kind of
after I had decided that Iwasn't going to college too,
right, yeah, so it was like yougot a double.
You got like here's, let meserve you a plate of uneducation
to a teacher, a longtimeteacher.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Who loved teaching?
Who loved teaching?
Speaker 1 (09:07):
and loved learning and like, really like, believed
in that for kids.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah.
So like both of your kids werelike no, I don't want anything
to do with it.
I don't want anything to do withwhat you dedicated your life to
, what I and I.
Part of the reason I chose thatprofession was because I wanted
to do something that made adifference for children, and
also I wanted to be home with myown children, and that was a
huge part of picking thatprofession.
(09:31):
And then it ended up like kindof hurting me as a mom because I
was so tired all the time and Ididn't want to have other
people's kids over sometimesbecause I didn't want to deal
with.
I didn't want to deal with.
I wanted to have some spacethat was sacred and and and so
it.
It didn't end up being as easyas I thought it was going to be
(09:52):
with teaching and you know, infact, like you guys, you lived
at school with me, yeah, andthere was like lots of late
nights where, and then I leftyou in the afterschool care and
I focused on school, and theneven in the summer I worked on
school, and so I really feellike it was actually like it
didn't didn't go the way that Ihad intended and it definitely
(10:12):
didn't go that way with with mychildren in school.
But what I do know about both ofyou is that I have full
confidence in your ability tomake decisions and to find your
way, and so that's the part thatI really held on to really
closely.
And so I I did embrace theunschool and homeschool and I
(10:34):
did start to understand thingsin a different way, and Jackson
and I allowed Jackson the spacethat he needed, because I had no
choice Like I had no choice.
He was away from me.
I would just text himperiodically and tell him how
much I loved him and that I wasthere with open arms If he, when
and if he ever wanted to comehome.
(10:56):
He had a place at home and Ijust held on to that as much as
I could and I prayed all thetime and I was very sad and it
was a really hard time.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
But then he eventually came home.
I honestly think that wasprobably like one of the biggest
lessons that, like you taughthim, though in that time, and
obviously like I can't speak forJackson I'm not speaking for
Jackson, but from what I'veheard that he's said and like
the way, even recently, likewhen we did those affirmations
for you, like through themindset thing that you were
doing, um, like the, the thingthat came up for him and for me
(11:33):
was like the unconditional lovethat you have always shown us
like, no matter what, and Ithink that was like such a
massive lesson for him in thatmoment because everything he was
doing was conditional.
It was like sports wasconditional on his physical
health all the time, and likehow he performed and then school
(11:57):
was conditional on how heshowed up when he couldn't help
that he had specific learningdisabilities that no one was
paying attention to.
His friends were conditional onif he was making this decision
or that decision and like eventhrough our dad, like there was
conditions.
So like it was like you werethe constant, like unconditional
(12:18):
love that he had seen.
And I feel like he like neededthat and like, even though that
period of time where you weren'ttalking was not ideal, and
obviously like if we could goback in time and unwish that to
happen, like that would be whatwe would choose, but like in the
same way it came out of it, himbeing able to learn what
(12:42):
unconditional love feels likeand knowing that he can accept
it.
Even when he feels angry orupset or whatever, like he can
still feel his feelings and beloved as well.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
I felt like that was really important.
Um, I also wanted to show him adifferent way of behaving Um,
because I felt like I mean his,his dad and I got divorced.
It was an emotionally abusivemarriage.
It was unhealthy, an unhealthymarriage that I stayed in for a
very long time and, um, I wantedhim to see that there was
(13:17):
another way.
I wanted both of you to seethat there was another way of
behaving and living your life,and so I just tried to stay as
open as possible and I also Ithought of like that story in
the Bible where you know it'slike the prodigal son returns
and you have to have like acomplete open heart and open
(13:39):
mind.
And so I did.
And then he did come back to meand our relationship is so
different now Like he he is, Ijust adore him and I know that
he loves me like deeply and Imean it is.
It is like it is so differentand we also like we went through
(14:00):
some hard times, like we had toadjust with each other.
We had I found it really easyto slip back into the
dysfunction that I had with yourdad, I.
I felt like it was whathappened with Jackson, because
Jackson, like, takes on some ofthose characteristics at times
and they would trigger me and sowe would trigger each other,
(14:21):
and then it was like but welearned to communicate
differently, which is somethingI never was able to figure out
with your dad.
But with Jackson, like we wouldjust adjust just a bit and it
would go in a differentdirection and it was like it
made such a difference.
I mean, we're not perfect,we're still like every once in a
(14:41):
while, but yes, but they.
But it was, it was just such, itwas, I don't know.
It was really life changing.
And then jackson got a job atsubway and jackson was like you
know, coming out of his funk,yeah and um, and starting to
like, explore the other parts ofhimself, like his.
He's got a really highemotional intelligence.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
He's very aware of people's feelings and he so he
doesn't have like he got thingsfrom from both of us and he's a
very hard worker yeah yeah, likereally dedicates himself yeah
like that was like shownimmensely when he was working at
subway yeah, I mean he wasworking the same amount of hours
(15:24):
as a manager and he that washis first job.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
That was his first job, yeah and um.
So he did that.
And then he went to work on aconstruction site.
His dad helped him get the jobs.
Dad is in that line of work andum runs a company.
And then, and jackson, like itwas grueling, he would come home
from the job site filthy, dirty, exhausted.
(15:47):
It was an exhausting job, yes,very tan.
And so then one day he camehome and said I want to go to
college, and this wasn't thatlong ago.
And then he I'm like, all right, well, you got to get your ged
first, and I'm thinking it'sgoing to take a while.
It didn't.
He got it like right away.
Had to take math, I think twice, maybe three times I feel like
it took him like less than twomonths yeah, it was really fast.
(16:10):
I mean, he passed everythingelse right away, which was I was
shocked.
Yeah and um, and then heapplied to a college in
Gainesville and got accepted andit was all crazy, and then he
was gone.
So that empty nest was not whatI was expecting because there
was no transition.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
There was no transition?
No, because you, we didn't eventhink he wanted to go to
college yeah like he was justworking, like there was no
thought or conversation reallyabout like yeah, I wanna I knew
he wanted to do.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
He wanted to do more, yeah, but we didn't know when
we didn't know what path thatlooked like like yeah he
definitely like we had someforeshadowing of where he was,
like I'm got to get out of thistown, I got to be more than this
, I don't want to be stuck here,and he would have these moments
of revelation and I'm like thiskid's got to do something.
(16:58):
He's going to do something, he'sgoing to figure it out, and and
.
So you know he's now, he's incollege and and and it's not
super easy for him.
He's's like struggling, had totake some things more than once,
but he is like learning such adifferent life that I'm not even
as concerned about, like whenhe graduates or if he figures
(17:20):
that part out.
I love the experiences he'sgetting and the people that he's
like, people that are totallydifferent than he is that he's
meeting and like his roommatelike they're good friends but
they're complete opposites and Ilove that he gets to experience
these things and like just growup in a different way.
So so I'm excited about thatfor him and he'll figure it out,
(17:43):
and I believe that about bothof you, I'm like you'll figure
it out and I also did it afraidlike yeah, he did it.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
He was scared, yeah, he was scared to death and he
did it anyways, and that wasanother thing that like you had
taught us like that, like Idefinitely, like I noticed that
right away, but I think like helike almost like soaked it in
and then like had to like liveit out, and then he was like
okay, like I can do this, afraidlike that was something that
(18:12):
you used to say to me all thetime, like I'd be like I'm
scared and you'd be like wellthen, we're gonna do it scared
like you don't have to not bescared.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
That's like bad advice when people say that like
, oh, just don't be scared, yeahlike I hate when people say
that because it's like, well,that's not changing anything.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
It's like when people say like, well, don't be sad.
Like oh, gee, thanks yeah yeah,fixed like that's not how it
works, but like just doing itthat way anyways was like a
massive lesson that you hadtaught us in so many different
ways I mean like, even likeleaving, like leaving like a
(18:48):
relationship that you had beenin for so long that you had two
kids with but, like that wasscary.
like it's not like terrifying,yeah, and we didn't have like
all this money, yeah, ready tojust leave and be like all right
, we're good.
Like it was like you had toreally like rely on people and
like, yeah, you weren't used todoing that.
Like you are very independentperson and so I feel like I
(19:15):
don't know, like that wassomething that, like we both
like took from you is like beingable to like just do it afraid
and then like make something outof it like make something out
of it.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Wow, I, I mean, I appreciate that because you know
, you think that you're doingall these things and making
these mistakes and you don't see.
You don't see some of yourchoices and how they impact your
children.
Also because you're not,sometimes they don't tell you.
Sometimes you, you know, youdon't, you don't know, and yeah
and um, and so I just Iappreciate that so much and I
know that jackson, he has saidthe same thing.
(19:53):
I think I don't know if he seesme leaving as something that I
did afraid or that I did in abrave way.
I think there's still someresistance when it comes to that
.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Yeah, I think he definitely has a much different
perspective and, like again,like I don't know what, that,
yeah, and he wants to come onand talk.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
So really, yeah, cool , yeah, that would be good.
Yeah, um, so yeah I don't know.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
I know it was much different for him than it was
for me it was like two totallydifferent, like if you were to
watch it in a movie, like themovies would be two different
movies two totally differentmovies, but yeah I think there
was alsothree different movies yeah, I
mean like all four of us likefour, yeah had different
experiences.
It's just the reality of life,really is the perspective of
(20:36):
everyone is different, yeah, butI also think, like that he does
, it doesn't go unnoticed thatyou, even though he didn't want
you to leave At least that'swhat my perception of how he
felt was.
Maybe that's not true.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Jackson yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Yeah, he still saw you do something that you
decided was best for you and allof us.
And that you were afraid andthat you did it anyways.
And then you continued afterthat to make decisions that were
scary and do those afraid to solike.
For me, like the big one waslike leaving, but like I also
(21:16):
like that's not.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
That's not the only thing no, because jackson's so
many jackson's thing that hereferences is me leaving
teaching.
Yeah, um, and I was terrified.
I'm like how am I gonna?
I pulled out my retirement,which was, you know, not
financially wise.
Yeah and um, I bet on myselfyeah and I was scared to death.
How am I gonna take care ofthese two kids?
(21:38):
Because I did not have.
I had 125 a month for support,that's it.
So I had no support and I waslike, like, yeah, half groceries
Exactly.
And so I'm like, how am I goingto do this?
And I needed my business incometo as a supplement to my
(21:59):
teaching income.
So now I had to come up with myteaching income and the
supplement, and so it was superoverwhelming and scary and I did
that.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
And then I actually feel, and I say failed, I don't
mean fail as in I think you cansay fail yeah, I failed because
this is I was talking to um thewomen that I went on the retreat
with recently I went on aretreat um to Bali and we were
we did like a reconnection callum and one of the facilitators
(22:31):
of the retreat was like yeah,like I feel like we've kind of
like failed in this motion to dolike what they thought the
business was gonna be andthey're like basically
recreating it to be somethingdifferent and like taking a
little more time and what haveyou yeah but I was like the way
that she had said it.
She was like, yeah, like I've Ifailed and like what I and I was
(22:54):
like, well, let me like stopyou for a second, because I mean
, I did my graduation speech onthis literally.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
I did my graduation speech on failure.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Yeah, um like good luck.
We all failed yeah um, but Idon't think that's a bad thing.
I think we've positionedfailure the word as a negative.
Yeah, like more derogatory word, but like it's not, because
with failure, like withoutfailure, there's no success
(23:23):
there's no success and there'sno way of figuring out what's
right, yeah, or not right, butwhat is a different option?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Yeah, and that is Like what works yeah, what works
.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
And like what doesn't work yeah, If you don't fail,
then like you don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Like, then what?
Like everything just worked outfor you.
Like that kind of sounds like aboring ass life yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Sorry, but like it just does so, so I did okay.
So I failed, I didn't, Icouldn't, I couldn't make enough
money, um, or enough that youknow, and I like I was in
trouble.
Yeah, I felt like I was introuble so I had to go back into
the school system, or I feltlike I had to go back in the
school system.
I don't really think that I hadto.
I think that I felt like I hadto at the time I was.
I fear was just ruling mythoughts and it was all you knew
and it was all I knew.
And I, I didn't I.
But I did feel like I feltterrible about it.
(24:15):
I felt so upset I didn't wantto.
I resisted it.
I went on the interview.
I was like I don't even carebecause I don't want this job,
and I just laid it all out there.
I just told him everything thatI thought about education and
how I thought and what I thoughtabout teaching.
And my principal loved it likeit was crazy.
My assistant principal wantedto hire her friend.
(24:35):
So she was like oh great, um,she's like she's answering it
like she.
You could tell that she waslike oh man.
But so the principal called melike after the interview and was
like I want you know, I wantyou to take this job, I don't
want you to go somewhere else.
And, um, and it was the worstjob I've ever had, like I was a
(24:56):
student support specialist.
It was hell.
Yeah it was hell.
I was dealing with behaviorproblem after behavior problem
all day long, every day.
Teachers were angry.
I wasn't used to teachers beingangry with me.
I usually was helping teachersand fighting for teachers and
I'm like I felt like I wasfighting against teachers in
this case and it was soupsetting and so awful.
(25:19):
And then you like re got sickyeah, I did, I got, yeah, I was
like so stressed like physically, physically because I I also
have an autoimmune disease.
I have um I don't have ra ittested negative, but I have a
positive ana, so it's basicallyis ra, so they treat it like ra
and um it's it's pretty much inremission at this point, but it
(25:43):
flares up with stress.
So it was just a really hardtime.
And then the pandemic happened,which felt like a blessing to
me.
I know it's not a blessing andit was terrible for so many
people.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
But it was a blessing for some people.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
You're right and I guess you feel guilty about that
in a sense.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Yeah, I mean, but like that's the same thing, like
there, that's the way that theworld is.
There are so many things thatlike are not great for some
people and are really great forother people and that doesn't
make it like good for the people, it's bad for.
And it doesn't make it bad forthe people, it's good for, it's
just different.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
No, bad for the people, it's good for, it's just
different.
No, you're right.
So, um, so I got to help.
I got to help teachers online.
I got to help parents.
I got to help kids.
I got to meet kids every dayand have like the best
conversations with them,sometimes just meet for lunch
and like sit on the computertogether and, um, I it was.
And then I also figured out howto work from home, because that
(26:44):
was what was lacking the firsttime, so I really focused on my
business.
I also also was part of aconference that we did online.
It was called STEM con.
It was incredible.
It was like educators that areexcited about innovation and
inquiry and hands-on and outsidethe box thinking, and it was
like all my people in one placeand it was the best experience,
(27:08):
and so there were so many goodthings that were happening and
and then my business like you,came to help me with my business
and we made like a hundredproducts which is basically how
I started my business.
Yeah, so yeah which is so crazy.
And um yeah, because we'regoing to talk about Emily's
story as well and we.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
There's a little teaser, yeah, so come back next
week um, mind your heart nextweek.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Um, so it was.
And then it grew like mybusiness grew, and it was.
It was like a game changer.
And then I, I was able, I didstay at that school the next
year.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
I came back after, after COVID, and I was the media
specialist, which was muchbetter yeah, I was gonna say
that year was it wasn't great,but it was better, it wasn't
great because I had a reallynasty micromanaging assistant
principal.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
If it hadn't been for her, I could have done that job
.
I could have continued doingthat job because I loved the
kids and I was having fun.
Like I was focused on gettingkids excited about reading.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Kids were reading.
That's your shit.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Yeah, kids were like kids were reading.
While they were walking in thehallways, people were people who
didn't even like me were like,oh my gosh, what are you doing?
It was unbelievable.
And then I had the best newscrew and it was just, it was so
fun, but I knew that that shewasn't going to be able to stay
out of my business, and shedidn't.
(28:34):
And then they were going to putme on the rotation and I was
like you know what?
I think I'm done, I think Ineed to be done again.
Yeah, so I quit again and and itwas both times were like a
grieving process, because itfelt like I was leaving a part
of myself behind, because it wassomething that I was actually
really good at, and andsometimes I want to tell people
(28:56):
in my present life like I was areally good teacher, but you
know, yeah, and I was a reallygood teacher, but you know, yeah
, and and I'm like that makes mefeel kind of sad because it's a
part of me that is, it'sdifferent, it's changed muscle.
You don't get to.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
yeah, hands on exercise anymore yeah like
you're doing it through, like athrough someone else yeah
because you, like you, still arean incredible teacher, like
you'll never not be anincredible teacher.
It's just that you're doing itdifferently.
Yeah, it's so different.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
So now I'm making things for teachers and I'm
hoping to help them inspire adeep love of learning.
That's what I'm very passionateabout.
I want kids to love to learn.
I think it will make thedifference.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Well, it's always been about the kids for you.
Yeah that's the difference oflike doing what you're doing now
is that you can't see thatcan't see it.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
I can see it in feedback, when people for sure,
and I get so happy when theytell me that the kids love it
Like I'm.
Like I'm glad the teacher likesit too, because I want to be
helpful.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
But I also just love when, the, when they tell me
that the kids love it.
That just I don't know thatmakes such a huge difference.
But I, I don't know, like that,that part of me, you know it
has changed so much and I alsodidn't realize how much I miss
like physical connection.
Like you know, I'm home bymyself with my dog and, um, you
(30:23):
know, your body like kind ofyearns for a physical touch, and
I don't mean that in ainappropriate way, I mean well,
I mean like sexual physicaltouch isn't inappropriate no,
you're right, in a sexual wayyou're right.
You mean no, I don't mean itthat way.
I'm saying you don't mean it.
Yeah, I don't mean it that way,you mean it.
And just like a, the act ofbeing touched, yes, loved and
(30:45):
and when kids, you know, swarmed, you know, on you, like, yeah,
you know, all jumped up at onetime and hugged you and like
little kindergartners, likethinking you were a superhero,
that is such a great feeling.
Yeah, you feel like a rock staryeah you do feel like a rock
star, you know, walking on thehalls and the kids are excited,
um, it is a good feeling and Imiss those hugs and that
(31:07):
connection and that part hasbeen, has been, a struggle.
So, but you know, I also knowthat I can't be in a school
system be, you know, my health,my, um, mental health, like I'm
just too frustrated with whatwe're doing in schools.
The whole idea of standardizedcrap and testing, and you know,
(31:30):
we, they tell us todifferentiate and then we have
to standardize.
That doesn't even make sense.
I could go on and on about that.
I won't, but, um, but so I havea lot of frustration towards a
system that I think is not asystemic.
It is a systemic issue and it'snot good for teachers and it's
not good for children, yeah, andit makes me angry and so I get
(31:50):
angry, and so that is, you know,part of it, but anyway, so, so,
so I, I mean based that I likeis there anything I left out
about my?
I mean, I was married for 17years, like I married the person
that I fell in love with when Iwas 18, 19 years old.
Um, I had a really lowconfidence.
(32:12):
I didn't think I deservedbetter or to be respected, I
guess.
I mean, I look back and I'mlike there are so many things
that I'm like, oh my gosh, likewhat was I thinking?
And, um, and that was one thingthat I tried so hard, especially
(32:34):
with you as a daughter I wanted, um, you to like believe in
yourself and then it didn'talways translate that way and
like you to feel good about yourand then it didn't always
translate that way and like youto feel good about your body and
yourself and you're in your ownskin and your confidence to do
things.
And I don't think it translatedthat way.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
I think sometimes, like I, you know, there's things
that happened that I knowyou'll talk about next week,
that that I'm'm, that I just amlike, oh, like but at the same
time, like like I get whatyou're saying and like I know,
like I hear like that, that Iknow that that's hard for you
and that, like whenever even Italk about like how it was
(33:15):
perceived for me, like growingup, that it's hard for you, but
at the same time, like you haveto think about like that's not
just like you Like there's likea line of things like in like
generations of like taught andlike not even just
generationally but likesociety-wise to look at
(33:39):
ourselves, love ourselves,dislike ourselves as women
specifically, is like you can'tput all of that just on you no,
you're like, you didn'tnecessarily have the resources.
No, that's true to knowdifferently and like so, like,
whenever you think about that,like I don't blame you, like
(33:59):
there's not like blame, likeblame that I put on you, I think
that there is, like there'sjust so much to it, Like it's
not just that black and white,Like there's so much gray to
that, and like I also don't wantyou to hold like that blame,
Okay, Because like then you'retaking on generations worth of
(34:21):
trauma.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
No generations of.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Yeah, you're right societal norms that have been
taught over decades and decadeslike that's.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
That's not no, you're , that's not on you all right,
well, anyway.
So I did um sorry, I didn't meanno, it's all right, I, I just
don't think I valued myselfenough.
Anyway, anyway, we um ended upgetting married.
We were married for 17 years.
I um stayed for a long timebecause I thought that I
(34:54):
honestly thought that he, Ithought he was a good dad, and I
thought that, um, I thoughtthat, um, I thought that you, I
thought you both really lovedhim and that it would be really
confusing for you.
But then I also think I wasalso really scared and I was
also very, um, codependent Iguess I hate that word, but um,
(35:18):
I didn't want to leave like, Ididn't want to not be married, I
wanted to be married.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yeah, and I, um.
I wanted him to love all of us.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
I didn't want to leave, like I didn't want to not
be married.
I wanted to be married, yeah,and I, um, I wanted him to love
all of us.
I didn't, you know, I, I wantedhim to be healthy, like drinking
and things like that werereally difficult and and a lot
of our relationship changedbecause when I had you which
I've told you before you changedmy life you were a gift, you
(35:50):
were what I prayed about andwanted my whole life, and I
remember thinking, even when,when your dad and I were dating,
that I, I like, if we break up,I'll have to meet someone else,
we'll have to fall in love.
When will I ever have a baby,like the baby part was, so I
wanted a baby so badly, um, butI didn't.
(36:13):
I thought I was gonna give youlike an example of love, but I
didn't understand that thatwasn't like pure good love and
that there was a lot ofconditions with it and um, but I
, I wanted to be better, like Iwould, like you know, have some
(36:35):
drinks and whatever with him andnot there's no judgment there
but um, but I didn't want youguys growing up in a house.
I didn't want you to grow up ina house like that yeah, and I
think it.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
You're saying there's no judgment for people who do
like drink, like yeah especiallylike.
Of course, there's not yeah but, like, the thing that I think
where you're coming from is that, like that's not who you were
or wanted to be.
It's not something you actuallyreally enjoyed, it's not
something that really made youfeel good and you were doing it
because you felt pressured.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Pressured, yeah, almost like a peer pressure.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
And he was.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
He would get mad when I didn't want to.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Well, I mean he really was an undiagnosed
alcoholic?
I don't know anymore, yeah, Idon't know, yeah, anymore, yeah,
I don't know either.
Um, yeah.
So like when you're, and alsolike I'm sure subconsciously
there's probably a part of youthat's like, if I do this thing
that I'm not comfortable reallydoing, that I don't really like
doing, I'm also kind of enablingthe behavior that I also don't
(37:38):
want, they don't want.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Yeah, but he's so much he's nicer to me sometimes,
but sometimes not hit or miss,so you just never knew.
Yeah, so it was.
You're right, it wasn'tsomething that I wanted
necessarily to do, that I everreally wanted to do, I mean,
even when I was a teenager,doing that, um so drinking sucks
(37:59):
.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Yeah, I mean, it makes me feel terrible.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
The next day like I have, and I don't mean sick, I
mean like mentally depressedyeah, and depressing yeah and I
have depression and anxiety andadd and dyslexia, so it really
messed me up and so I and you'reallergic to yeast yeah, yeah,
that's true, you're literallyallergic to alcohol.
(38:23):
Yeah, I was like oh yeah, theswelling.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Yeah, so when you came along, I wanted to be
better.
I wanted to be a better mom, Iwanted to be a better person, I
wanted to raise you and thisideal whatever and I just wanted
better for you.
I had, like you know, visionsof like my family was a broken
family.
I didn't want you to have abroken family.
(38:50):
And then, um, and then I justkept wanting to be better and
that was conflicting with whatour, what our relationship was.
So we didn't know how.
And then there was a period oftime where I really wanted to
have a second baby and I don'tknow if we were on the same page
with that, like I got really.
(39:11):
That's when I actually firststarted taking an antidepressant
, because I was so depressedabout it and um, and it took a
long time and surgery and otherwhatever, and it was a hard
thing to feel like you weregoing through by yourself, even
though you were with a partner.
So it was um, I don't know.
I mean my brother said it wasdoomed from the start and I
(39:32):
remember feeling so insulted bythat you guys were very opposite
though but we are very opposite.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
You're like the complete opposite of each other.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Yeah, and jackson says that too.
He's like.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Once he realized he's like oh, you guys never should
have been together yeah, I meanlike, even when you were like
together and we were younger,like I remember, like we used to
joke about it, like there wouldbe things that were like, it
was like you were literally theexact opposite.
Yeah, like it was like almost ajoke at that time, like, oh
(40:07):
well, opposite the track, Iguess, like, but it's like you
were very, very different andlike everything like and and not
even just in the like surfacelevel things like and the way we
thought about things politicsyeah, like the non-negotiable
part of things was likecompatibility.
Yeah, we were so different.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
We are, yeah, we are, well, we are so different and
um, yeah, but I really I guessalso there was like a false
sense of security with him Ifelt like I ran to him and I
seeked like protection andcomfort and like him to take
(40:46):
care of things, which is whereyou guys clicked yeah, because
he craved doing that.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Yeah, that was what he wanted to do for anyone.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
He wanted to, because he didn't have that himself.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Like he wanted to be the protector and like be like
the the provider yeah, like thethe man, like yeah quote,
unquote.
I hate when people say that,but that's what that was how he
was raised no, you're right.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
So that is when.
And then, when I became moreindependent at times, it was
like hurtful, it was hurtful,you're right.
And now it makes sense.
That actually makes more sense,like no wonder, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
And it was like the one way that you clicked it was
like oh shit, like this is yeahnot here, like what do we do
with this?
Yeah, and he didn't like heknocked me down, force it on you
instead yeah, he would knock medown.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
I don don't mean physically, but mentally, and so
it really was after likestarting counseling myself.
After my grandmother died andone of my friends died very
young.
I remember having what feltlike a nervous breakdown in our
house and I was like, and my momwas like you need to go to a
(42:02):
women's resource center and youneed to talk to someone.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
I didn't know.
Nanny was the one that told youthat, yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Nanny's the one that told me that, wow, and I put it
off, put it off, put it off forso long, probably years, and
then one day it was really badand I was like I do, and I
called and I made an appointmentand I met Jane and everything
changed.
I mean, it wasn't as simple asthat.
(42:28):
It was a long time ofcounseling and I didn't even
realize, like she didn't tell me, you're in an emotionally
abusive marriage.
I didn't know that.
I didn't know that for a whilewe worked together for a long
time before I realized.
I was like, why is she sharing?
Why is she sharing theseresources with me?
Why do I have to watch thesevideos?
Why am I like?
(42:50):
And then I was like, oh my gosh,yeah, you're talking about me,
yeah, and um, and I, and I waslike I, I didn't know what to do
with that, and I actually thinkthat could be a separate
episode you know about for sure,because there's so much to talk
about that there's a lot ofsteps that you, there's a lot of
steps.
And also I like resistedfeeling.
(43:11):
I didn't want to be a victim,but I also have things to say
about that too.
Yeah, so my judgment of ofwomen.
That's so unfair, so I feellike that would be a totally I
don't want a judgment ofyourself it is a judgment on
myself.
It definitely was a judgment onmyself, but it definitely.
Jane responded to that because,yeah, so that could be a whole
nother episode but um, but I dothink that I just felt like and
(43:37):
financially I didn't know whathow what I was going to do it
really was when tptT came along,which is Teachers Pay Teachers,
which is a marketplace forteacher authors to create things
for teachers.
It's kind of like an Amazon forteachers.
Anyway, yeah, that was when Ithought that there was any kind
of hope and that I might be ableto to, like, stand on my own
(44:01):
two feet and um, and so that's.
You know that that's how thatstarted, but that was that was
hell as well, so yeah, sobasically that's my story, yeah
yeah, um you thought you weregetting the light one yeah,
(44:25):
you're wrong.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
We're just jumping right on in there, yeah I think
that's good, though I I don'tknow.
I hate when people are liketrying to do like the small talk
yeah, garbage, yeah like ifyou're listening to this podcast
you're not here for like justshits and gigs.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
Yeah, we'll give you some of that.
But yeah, you're here becauseyou want to be heard and related
to and yeah, you're somebodyelse's story too, so yeah, Yep,
so so yeah, and now, where areyou now?
Speaker 2 (45:07):
where am I now?
We, I am on the other side ofthat, which is really I didn't
think it was possible, but Idefinitely, um, dreamed about it
, imagined it, um, I'm stillsingle.
It's been 10 years and I thinkthere's a part of me that's
scared to date, partly becauseI'm free, like I feel free, and
(45:31):
I didn't feel free for most ofmy life and nobody can control
me or tell me how to clean themicrowave or where to put things
in the refrigerator or what Ihave to do or what I can spend
money on or any of that.
And nobody's going to tell methat my brain doesn't work and
that I'm cold and dead insideand all the other things.
(45:52):
So I don't want to take anychances is kind of how I feel,
and also like I don't know if Iknow what love real love looks
like and um, and so I know somany people that have left their
marriage and then ended up withthe exact same kind of person,
(46:13):
and I I don't want that tohappen and also I don't.
I think that I would be morecompromising if I met the person
and you know, and fell in loveyeah because right now I don't
feel like compromising at all,but um, but I compromise for
Kobe, like I make concessionsfor my dog.
So, um, and you and Jackson, soI I know I'm capable of loving,
(46:35):
like I I know that kind of love.
I just don don't know likeromantic love and I'm kind of
scared and even like, even likethe intimate parts of a
relationship, I'm kind of scaredabout that.
I mean, 10 years, that's a longtime.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Yeah, Well, and then, like before that, you spent 17
years with the same person.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Yeah, I was the same person.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
Yeah, married Just 17 years with the same person.
Yeah, it was the same person.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
yeah, married just 17 years married and then, oh, and
all the years before that thatwe were together, yeah, so like
that's a long.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
That's like.
You're basically like my wholeadult life virgin like yeah,
that's gonna probably how itfeels I'd imagine.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
No, I probably.
Yeah, yeah, it does feel likethat, so it's a weird yeah.
So I um, for the most part,like most of the time, I don't
really feel lonely.
I do miss, like like I miss you, I miss doing stuff, I miss
like having people around me.
I miss, I miss having friendslike I used to.
(47:37):
I don't have friends like Iused to.
Um, you know, some peopledidn't survive the transition of
my life and I used to feel likeI was too much for people.
But I'm not.
I'm doing a lot of mindset workand I'm not gonna.
I'm not too much for people.
I am exactly what I am.
And for some people it's it'stoo, but that's that's their
(48:01):
issue, not my issue.
And um, and I'm sad, like I'msad that I lost people along the
way, people that I that reallyhelped me and that I loved
deeply.
Um, but I also understand that,like, as you grow, there's like
growing pains, and so that'skind of where I am right now.
I'm still really focused onbuilding my business and I want,
(48:25):
like I'm it's, it's beenstruggling for the last year and
a half and um as is the wholeentire world, as is the country,
yep and so, um, I'm working onthat, I'm, I'm, I'm like putting
one foot in front of the other,I'm trying to make some pivots
and I'm moving ahead and I havea very supportive family and I
(48:48):
feel loved from my family.
I don't, I just I don't feellike something's missing.
I do know that I I'm not happywith where I currently am, like
as far as living.
I feel like I'm, I feel likethere's supposed to be something
different about that.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Um, it's like the next phase though yeah it's like
I was kind of talking to Jakeabout this recently is like like
, because I was like, oh, youknow, sometimes I'm like, I'm
just tired of like it's like onefucking thing after the other.
Are we gonna class on thispodcast?
Well, I'm going to, okay, sowe're just gonna have to make it
(49:26):
explicit okay, um but that'show it feels.
Sometimes it's like one thingafter the other yeah and then.
But then I'm like at the sametime, like that's how it's gonna
be forever, like that is life,yeah, like it is one thing after
the other yeah and it's justlike being okay with like no,
I've been watching it.
(49:46):
Yeah, it's just being okay withwhatever the next thing is, and
like knowing that you can get tothe next thing.
And, like you, it was like you,you're going through all that,
you went through all that stuffyou just talked about, and then
there's been other things thathave come along, yeah, and now
it's like all right, here's yournext thing.
(50:08):
Yeah, you're gonna figure outwhere you want to do it again,
yeah and you'll figure it outand it'll, it'll all work out
and it won't.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
It won't come with no trials and tribulations but
yeah, because, um, if I were togo, if I were to go where I
think I want will rather be like, then that means I'm away from
you and I'm away from nanny andI'm away from jackson, and that
doesn't seem right, that doesn'tfeel aligned but also like in
(50:42):
this life that you're likepicturing like you could have
the means to fly back and forthor have two houses, or you know,
like who knows what that's trueand also um like don't limit
your imagination.
Maybe the like, the image visionboard, maybe the house with the
(51:04):
tree full grown trees and maybeit, maybe it doesn't.
Maybe it doesn't have to be inMaine, maybe it could be in
Florida if I could find theright like spot.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
So, um, or maybe you have one in Maine and one in
Florida, yeah, so For when itgets hot as hell here and so
cold there, You're right.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
So that's to be determined.
Yeah, tbd, tbd.
So yeah, that's a little bitabout me.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
You didn't know her before.
Speaker 2 (51:39):
You do now you do now and you'll learn even more in
the weeks to come, but you know,also, we want to offer this as
a as a support to you as well,and there's going to be topics
that we talk about that arespecifically, um, geared to you
know, focusing on us, not justfocusing on us.
Speaker 1 (51:59):
yeah, yeah, for sure, but for sure, but I think that
it's important that this isknown about both of us, because
one thing that I've found likewith like my more recent clients
that I'm working with, is likeI relate to them, like they
chose me to be their coachbecause, like they know that
(52:21):
I've been through what they'retrying to get through, like I am
no, like anomaly, like I amwhere they are right now and
like people need that.
Speaker 2 (52:33):
I agree, I totally agree.
Coaching for DCA, for DigitalCourse Academy.
I feel like the people thatjoin with me they know that,
like I'm not a super successfulcourse creator yet and but they
know that I I've been in thetrenches and also there's things
(52:55):
that I figured out, things thatI tried that they could avoid,
and also, having been through itso many times, I know it, like
I know and like and I'm can be,I mean, I'm supporting yeah, so
so you're right.
So I think, so, like these firstcouple episodes, like you'll be
(53:15):
learning more about us, yeahbut, we don't have massive egos,
so it won't continue to be justabout us, yeah yeah, so hold on
hang in there with us we'll getyou through this part right
here and um, and some of thetopics we were talking about
will be hard and heavy, yeah andum, but some things will be,
you know, really beautiful, andthere always will be beauty in
(53:39):
the tragedy anyway.
So we hope that you mind yourheart on Mondays and you stay
tuned.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:51):
Thanks for listening.
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