August 2, 2024 • 36 mins
Can a law protect your personal time from work demands? Join us for a special edition of the Mindful Bytes podcast, recorded live from the Metaverse, as we debate France's law that gives workers the right to disconnect from work communications outside of office hours. Our panel—Brian, Shawna, Olivia, and Ashton—brings a wealth of perspectives to the table. Shawna dives into why older generations may resist change, while Ashton and Olivia discuss the adaptability of younger generations. We challenge the stereotypes that often pit generations against each other and explore how mutual respect can bridge these divides.
In segment two, Brian brings France's "right to disconnect" law to the discussing table. Could it be beneficial in the US? During this discussion we read fan mail our audience sent in about the constant pressures of modern connectivity. Imagine setting boundaries without fearing career repercussions. We share real-life examples of leaders who set clear expectations for after-hours communication, emphasizing the importance of respecting personal time.
We wrap up with empowering thoughts on individual choice and mindfulness in today's tech-driven world. Tune in for an insightful discussion that aims to bridge generational gaps and promote a culture of mutual respect and understanding.
In segment two, Brian brings France's "right to disconnect" law to the discussing table. Could it be beneficial in the US? During this discussion we read fan mail our audience sent in about the constant pressures of modern connectivity. Imagine setting boundaries without fearing career repercussions. We share real-life examples of leaders who set clear expectations for after-hours communication, emphasizing the importance of respecting personal time.
We wrap up with empowering thoughts on individual choice and mindfulness in today's tech-driven world. Tune in for an insightful discussion that aims to bridge generational gaps and promote a culture of mutual respect and understanding.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
In 2017, france gave workers the right to ignore work
communications outside ofworking hours.
Should we adopt some kind ofsimilar law?
Put something into place?
One person actually said youknow, unfortunately this is the
new norm and they don't reallysee a way out of it.
And I said I understand whatyou're saying, but if we've
noticed that something isn'thealthy, should we just accept
(00:22):
it because it's the norm?
All right, welcome to thisspecial episode of the Mindful
Bites.
If you just heard that noise,you're probably wondering what
was that?
That was confetti.
We were actually hosting a livepodcast recording right here in
the metaverse at the Killer BeeStudios.
We'll be doing this once amonth and during this podcast
episode, we're going to beactually reading the fan mail
(00:44):
that's coming in from some ofthe questions and thoughts we've
asked for everybody's responsefor during the podcast
throughout the month.
So I want to first start off byapologizing for anybody that's
listening to this episode, as Iam a Gen Xer, which you're going
to hear here in a minute.
As everybody already knows, genX is also, since we're older.
I guess we kind of forgetthings and I forgot that this
(01:06):
episode was supposed to be inthe metaverse this week and
reading the fan mail.
So I told everybody last episodethat we were going to go deeper
into how businesses and fromthe Entrepreneurs Magazine was
talking about how sevenbusinesses are using AI.
So that will.
We are going to cover that, butit won't be during this episode
, so please don't click unfollowor leave us a bad review.
(01:27):
Uh, but we will be covering it.
Covering that.
That episode will drop thefirst week of august, I believe.
So if I'm wrong again, I'm surethe sassy millennial is gonna
let me know oh yeah I will okaywith that.
Let's go ahead and introduceourselves.
We'll start off with mad oliviaI'm Olivia, your sassy savvy
millennial.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Hey everybody, I'm Shawna and I am your Xenial
digital dinosaur.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
I'm Ashton, your Gen Z tech enthusiast.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
And I'm Brian, your Gen X.
Forget everything, businessleader, except for I shouldn't
forget clients and the thingsthat we have to do right.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
There's a lot of things you shouldn't forget.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah, please don't.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Here's people listening to the podcast.
You're going to have tounderstand that in the metaverse
we have different names.
We have Mrs Killer Bee, whichis Shawna, mr Killer Bee, which
is me, brian, but Olivia isOlivia, and Arcane Noman is
actually Ashton, so we mightcall each other by different
names in here and you're gonnabe like who are these people?
The same people, it's withmetaverse avatar names.
(02:26):
Let's go ahead.
I know that you know we'regoing to be talking a little bit
about generations today and Iknow, sauna, that's something
that you wanted to bring in anddiscuss and then after that
we're going to talk about.
We're going to talk about someof the fan mail that's coming,
some of the responses aboutpeople's thoughts and response
to the law from France about theright to disconnect.
(02:49):
So I'm really interested totalk about that.
So, Shawna, speaking ofgenerations, what did you want
to talk about?
Speaker 3 (02:54):
So we joke a lot about the differences in
generations, especially on ourpanel, because we consider
ourselves four differentgenerations bringing different
perspectives to all thingstechnology and so I've been
thinking a lot about thatspecifically because I've
noticed how common it is now forpeople of different generations
(03:17):
to either belittle other peoplein other generations or just to
in general feel superior forone reason or another.
So I was kind of thinking aboutthat and reading articles about
it and things like that and Ifound some really interesting
information that I thought youguys would be interested in.
So as I was thinking through itI realized that probably part
(03:41):
of the problem is that thatprobably part of the problem is
that you know older generationssee the world changing so fast
and see younger generations withdifferent values and going
about things in different waysand you know, probably also
there's some fear there aboutwhat is going to happen in the
future.
You know young people ingeneral are kind of more hopeful
(04:02):
and looking forward to thefuture and feel better able to
adapt to it.
So I think that could be partof the problem.
And then sometimes maybeyounger generations are annoyed
with how long it takes olderpeople to adapt to things and,
you know, be resistant tochanges in technology.
I mean, obviously you've seenthat a lot in me.
I'll resist all the technologyif I can.
(04:24):
But where the problem comes inis if we start to isolate
ourselves from people of otherages, if you are degrading or
belittling to other people.
So that's kind of what I wantedto talk about was some ideas
about how we can bridge the gapbetween generations, and so one
(04:47):
of the ways is by avoidinggeneralizations.
So in our neighborhood there'sthis group of kids that just
kind of wander around all thetime.
They play ball in the grassyareas and they, you know, go
fishing, do all kinds of fun kidstuff.
And I have heard both of thesethings.
I have heard older people inour neighborhood say kids never
(05:12):
go outside anymore, they justsit on their devices all day.
And then I've also heard peoplesay why are those kids outside
all the time?
Where are their parents?
And it just kind of illustratedto me the humor of like nobody
can ever do anything right.
You know what you're doing somepeople are going to think is
wrong for one reason, somepeople are going to think it's
(05:34):
wrong for another reason.
But it was just a funny thingto me when I heard people
talking about this particulargroup of kids.
But you know, avoidinggeneralization means that you
don't say like Ashton wastalking about this the other day
.
Ashton, what are some of thegeneralizations you've heard
about Gen Z?
Speaker 4 (05:55):
That we won't be a hardworking generation.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Olivia, what's a generalization?
You've heard about millennials.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
I agree even with Ashton, like millennials are
lazy Wow.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
So it's shocking to me because you know, we know and
hang out with people of allgenerations and so you know I've
seen firsthand, specifically inMetaLivia and Arcane, how
hardworking they are and howcreative.
You know, I do feel like I'veheard people say that about Gen
(06:29):
Z like they're lazy and they'renot.
They're not hardworking.
But the amazing thing that I'veseen out of both of your
generations different people inyour generations is like
unwillingness to just do thingsthe way they've always been done
, because you see better ways todo them quicker, more efficient
.
You know, more creative, and Ithink that's an amazing thing.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Well, I would say with a millennial.
So that's Olivia, correct,olivia, you follow your
millennials.
So I mean, I remember all thepushback saying millennials
don't do nothing, they're lazy.
But you know, and from a GenXer, I would say that you know.
From Gen X, I think people werelike we're in boomers maybe, if
they want to just get thingsdone and go forward and and
knock it out, which is a goodthing and a and a bad thing at
(07:13):
times as well.
But we've watched and witnessedmillennials that, yes, they
might be slower at makingdecisions but it seems like
they're very good at processingbefore taking that step, which
I've recognized.
And with Gen Z, I recognize GenZ more with Ashton I know you
(07:33):
said this for both, but I see ita lot in Gen Zs probably even
more, at least from myexperience that Gen Zs aren't as
quick as saying hey, I don'thave to do things the way
they've always been done.
They're asking more questions,which I think is something that
we're stepping into an era wherewe really need to be asking
more questions across the board.
But I like how you point outthat these what did you call it
(07:53):
Like?
It's almost like a generational, like discrimination, almost.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Oh, I didn't call it that, but I like that.
I think that's very accurate.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
I think that is what it is, and it separates us.
I mean, there's so much that wecan learn from each other that
this discrimination ingenerations actually prevents us
from, I feel like, fromevolving even further, because
we can really learn so much fromeach other, like you were
sharing how we can help eachother out.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
But that kind of leads me into the second way to
bridge gaps in generations is byspending time with people in
all generations, because it's alot harder to have negative
feelings about people if youactually spend time with them
and hear their thoughts and hearthe way they see the world and
how they want to do things.
So the third way is to mentorsomebody, and this one's really
(08:47):
exciting to me because it's notabout older people mentoring
younger people, it's aboutpeople of all ages mentoring
people.
So imagine this.
Imagine if you're a personthat's great at technology and
you are understanding all ofthese new things that are coming
up.
There's someone in your lifewho's older, who's feeling
frustrated and overwhelmed andmaybe even angry about the
(09:10):
things of technology that theydon't understand.
You could help them, comealongside of them and say do you
want to learn that?
Do you want to learn about AIor do you want to learn about
the metaverse?
And then it's a beneficialrelationship both ways, because
they will start to see how youlook at the world.
You will learn from them andthe wisdom of their age and you
(09:33):
know it's a beautiful thing, andthen we can start to bridge
some of those gaps where rightnow I feel like, you know,
people of different ages arepulling even further away from
each other.
So, yes, that's what I justwanted to talk about.
You know, when I startedthinking through it and reading,
I thought, you know, it wouldbe really fun to talk to you all
about it.
(09:53):
People might have been confusedthat I called myself a Xennial,
which is not a technicalgeneration, but it is a micro
generation in between X andmillennial, because I was born
in 1980.
And, depending on whose numbersyou're looking at, sometimes I
fall in Gen X, sometimes I fallin millennial.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
But I really actually don't want to identify.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
You don't want to choose.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
I don't actually fit into either one.
That's why they created thismicro generation is because it
is a short little time where wekind of have a mix of both of
those generations of thecharacteristics I want to say
another good thing aboutdifferent generations, so I'll
start with you with Generation X.
(10:41):
I love about people withGeneration from the Generation X
like such a strong desire tolike build something to make the
world better to like,especially in business.
I could see that you know, a lotof the biggest businesses in
the world right now were builtby people from Generation X.
Had a desire like, grew up witha desire not to just possibly
(11:05):
like go work at a factory or go,you know, do like following
your parents' footsteps, butlike build something new and
great, and so I think that's agreat thing about Generation X
and millennials.
What I love and I see this a lotnow on Instagram and things
like that is how importantyou're taking mental health and
(11:26):
you did not see that especially,let's say, 10, 20 years ago In
our generations people didn'ttalk about it.
If you said you're going to atherapist, people thought, oh
gosh, you must be nuts.
So I think that's such ahealthy thing that you're
bringing to the world and to theyou know every other generation
really and Generation Z.
(11:46):
I love what I feel like I'mseeing in the workplace as your
generation is coming into theworkplace is like a willingness
to push back against rules thatare in place that don't make
sense, or rules that maybe arethere for, like the leader's
convenience, but not necessarilybest for business or for
treating people the way theyshould be treated, and I think
(12:08):
that's a beautiful thing too.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Can I point out?
I know Olivia's got somethingshe wants to add to it, but I do
want to point out somethingthat you just said there.
You said how Gen Z's push back,and I think that's something
that us Gen Xers, and really anygeneration, should really be
paying attention to, because Ifeel like asking questions is
received as more as pushing back.
But I think we have to stoplooking at it as that negative
(12:35):
approach, because I mean I knowyou did not mean it negatively,
but as a Gen.
Xer, we could take that as, likethey're pushing back, they're
against authority, disrespectful, disrespectful, disrespectful
and that's not.
I mean.
You can go to that point.
Sure, a lot of times I thinkit's.
They're just, they're askingdeeper questions that we
probably even ourselves havebeen asking.
We're ignoring, right, we'reignoring that.
(12:58):
Go ahead, olivia.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, I was going to say positive with.
You know, even with Gen X andadding boomers into that is
their resilience and they somany I mean, that generate those
generations were, um, theypaved the way for the rest of us
(13:20):
to be able to do what we do,right, Because they didn't have
the technology or they wentthrough a lot of tough
situations.
And so I think that is what ispositive about them, is they
really did pave the way for therest of us to be able to do what
(13:44):
we do.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
That's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yeah, that's so true.
And for a Xenial, I mean, Ithink it is a positive that you
which I would say this about amillennial but is the fact that
you have some of the old schoolmentality but also the new
school mentality?
I think it is a superpower tobe able to have the best of both
(14:14):
of those worlds and be able toadapt in both those ways.
Oh yeah, and then Gen Z I feellike things change for them so
(14:37):
quickly that I think it's reallygood again how they can adopt
new things so quickly.
A generation that is moreopen-minded than any other
generation that we've seen andthey care a ton about making the
world a better place, which alot of people are like.
Oh my gosh, I'm scared thatthis person on their phone is
going to be running the country,but I'm actually excited
(15:00):
because I think that they havegreat hearts and they just don't
get enough credit.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Yeah, I completely agree, and I love how thought.
You see how well Olivia thoughtthrough that answer too Like
that's a millennial.
She really went deep into eachone, and you can say something
more about Gen X if you'd like.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
I mean, I welcome it anytime you can call me, text me
.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
I have a phone, you can text me I do know, how to
use text messaging.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
You can page me.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Please page me, you could use the next style
walkie-talkie.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Arcane, how about yourself?
I try not to stereotype.
I'm not good at saying yourgeneration is good at that, your
generation is good at that.
Generation is good at that.
Every generation has a place.
Every previous generation givesa path for the new generation
that's a very Gen?
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Z answer.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
I don't see.
I don't see generations.
I try not to use stereotypesthat's a.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
That's a beautiful Gen Z answer 100% something he
said that I think ties it alltogether, though, is, he said,
everyone has a place.
Yes, that's a beautiful Gen Z.
Answer A hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Well, I mean, he said that, I think ties it all
together, though, is he saideveryone has a place.
That's exactly the point.
So nice job, ashton.
I love that we were able tocome on here and explain that at
first.
So for everybody that's alreadybeen listening to the podcast
yes, we pick fun of each otherbecause we're different
generations and we havedifferent perspectives.
We have fun with it, butultimately, all around here, we
respect each other.
We respect each other, werespect each other's views and
input, and I think that'ssomething that we want to
(16:34):
encourage through Mindful Bitesas well, as we continue to talk
about tech and social media andbusiness, and just our mental
health as well.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
And respect for the generations that are not, you
know, reflected on this panel.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Yeah, I don't think boomers would ever be able to
get on a headset, or maybe.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Oh, that's not true, do we?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
have any boomers in the house?
Any boomers in the house?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Oh, yeah, boomers right there, yes.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yeah, welcome Bo yeah , representing the boomers right
here.
Yeah, welcome Bo yeah,representing the boomers right
here.
One of the things that we dohere, one of the points of this
episode segment of the MindfulBytes, is we want to host it
live once a month.
It'll be the fourth Wednesdayevery month at 11 am here at
Killer Bee Studios, and this isa time that we're going to bring
in some of the feedback fromour podcast.
(17:20):
So, if you're listening to thepodcast, we want to hear your
input on the things that we'retalking about.
So all you do is look at theshow notes and click that text
me.
You can text us a thought, aquestion, and then we'll bring
it to this session right here ofthe Mindful Bites podcast.
All right?
So here's the question that Iput out and that we had some
feedback on.
I wanted to bring it to thepanel here for us to discuss.
(17:43):
Shana actually brought up duringthe last episode about the law
that France put into place.
So I did some research and Idid find out that it was in 2017
when this law was put intoplace, and here's what the law
is it's called the right todisconnect.
Now, during that episode, wetalked about how we, you know,
with all the digital technology,it's hard to get away from work
(18:06):
and stuff.
It's almost like that's what'sexpected out of us.
And in 2017, france gaveworkers the right to ignore work
communications outside ofworking hours.
This law was put into place tohelp employees truly disconnect
after leaving the office.
So I put out a question, I askedpeople's feedback, like do you
think that this is somethingthat the U?
So I put out a question and Iasked people's feedback, like do
you think that this issomething that the US should
(18:29):
adopt?
Should we adopt some kind ofsimilar law?
Put something into place?
Is it necessary?
And I want to read some of theresponses that I got.
I want to hear your guys' input.
So first, yeah, so first,here's one of the responses
Great idea, great idea.
I feel the pressure to respondto text or emails when it's from
they feel the pressure torespond to text or emails when
(18:51):
it's from their coworker, andthat they've set boundaries on
email, but still text, stillcomes in from time to time,
which can frustrate them.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
What are your guys' thoughts about that?
I mean, yeah, I would befrustrated too, and it's hard
when you try to set boundariesand then people don't respect
them too, so I would befrustrated too.
What?
Speaker 2 (19:14):
do you guys think I mean, I think it's hard, I get
what they're saying so toactually have more of an
overarching law, I think wouldbe great, because sometimes,
even if you set boundaries I'venoticed this If you give into it
one time, then the person justthinks that the boundaries are
(19:35):
gone for good, and so that'swhat gets frustrating as well.
Good point.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
You know, I actually, you know, coming from the
business leader perspective whenI received that message, one of
my thoughts were was I'veprobably sent some of those
texts out and I've been on theother side too, where I've
gotten frustrated because peopleare texting me after hours and
what I responded to thisindividual was saying I had to
(20:01):
learn that, I had to learn formyself that a simple text to
someone off hours could besaying something that me, as a
business leader, never intendedto say.
I might work later in some ofthe later hours and I might send
a message out and not thinkingthat they're going to receive it
as oh man, it's not what I'msaying without receive it as oh
man, like it's not like it, whatI'm saying without saying it is
I don't value your time.
(20:23):
So I think any business leaderslistening to the podcast take
that into consideration.
With people that are that areyour team members, your
employees, like, I don't thinkwe mean it always in a bad way.
I'm sure there are some that do.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Oh yeah, there's no doubt that there are plenty of
bosses that are expecting peopleto be reachable all the time.
But you know, olivia readsomething to us in the last
episode that said it was about aleader who you know.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
Someone had just started.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Remember talking about that, olivia, and he wrote
in the email please don't feelthe need to answer right now.
This is when I work the best,but please respond when you work
the best, that's.
I think it comes down tocommunication.
Like, if you're texting someonewhen it's not their work time,
that automatically is going totake their mind back into work
time, so that's disrespectful.
An email you know they have tomake their own choice if they're
(21:16):
going to read their email ornot.
An email you know they have tomake their own choice if they're
going to read their email ornot.
But if you tell them I don'texpect you to answer this until
you're working.
That clears up any sort ofexpectation that you know that
they may have or you may have.
It all comes down tocommunication.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Yeah, that's actually interesting because I had
someone else that wrote back andthey said that they feel like
it's necessary, that a work-lifebalance is a term that is
overused but still useful.
We use that term a lot but Idon't think we follow that term
really as well as we could.
And they said I don't like thefact that it needs to be
(21:51):
regulated.
Common sense should dictate it.
We already know that by commonsense that we shouldn't do that,
and I pointed out.
I was like well, common senseisn't as common today.
Unfortunately, I don't thinkthat it seems like it's
something easy to be like yeah,that's common sense, but I don't
think the technology has becomemade us, made us so accessible
that I don't think it's even acommon sense issue as much as I
(22:12):
don't think, it's just thetechnology has made it so easily
accessible to reach out to eachother that we don't take into
account that, hey, this is anindividual person, that life
does not revolve around this job, and it shouldn't.
Even a good leader should knowthat their team members' lives.
They have lives outside of work, they have families that
they're taking care of, theyhave children, they have friends
(22:34):
, you know, and we have to berespectful of that, because when
we send those messages, or weexpect them to respond from a
text message or a email afterhours, we're actually coming in
between them and their familytoo, which is not good.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Yeah, I think saying that you have to use your common
sense is really anoversimplification, because
there's a lot of things at play.
There can be power dynamics.
A employee can feel like ifthey're not accessible then
they'll just get replaced.
So there's all sorts ofinsecurity there about keeping
your job.
(23:09):
Or maybe they're trying to bepromoted, so they feel like they
have to really go the extramile, and there's all sorts of
things that play.
So it can't come down to commonsense.
If you know you feel thepressure to do this for a
multiple you know, for multiplereasons.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
The thing with common sense is also, people have
different definition of worklife balance.
Like for someone else, theycould be, you know, a workaholic
and their work-life balance isI only work 60 hours this week
versus you know the 70 I usuallywork, or whatever, so that it
(23:53):
kind of makes it tough.
But I also think that there arecareers where you know what
you're getting yourself into.
In regards to that.
For example, if you're like adoctor or a surgeon, you have
the expectation that you have tobe on call sometimes, or even
(24:15):
lawyers on call sometimes, oreven lawyers, because if they
have to prep for a case, youhave to work those extra,
communicate at odd times orwhatever, because you have to be
, in court.
So but for I think also and thisis not, I don't think it's
stereotyping generations, butmaybe it is but I feel like, you
(24:41):
know, gen X comes from adifferent working mentality,
where you have to work 40 hoursa week or you didn't accomplish
everything that you possiblycould have, and that's just not
the case anymore with technologyand all those different things
(25:02):
yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Well, I think that you touched on something there
that I think is important Withthis individual.
I responded back to him andasked him further, like because
they made a mention aboutsetting boundaries, and I'm like
I think that's great.
Boundaries should be set andrespected on both sides, like
even right now.
Like Boundaries should be setand respected on both sides,
even right now.
We use Slack and one of ourteam members is in Finland and I
can see now which I love thison Slack it tells me what time
(25:24):
it is and it's like seven hoursdifference.
And I actually reached out tohim and I said hey, just want to
make sure, do you have yournotifications turned off during
evening hours, because I'm goingto be messaging you and it's
way later for you and I want tomake sure it's not interrupting
because they have a new baby.
It's like being mindful oftheir whole real life situation
(25:46):
outside of work.
And he said, yes, I have themsilenced and stuff, but he was
very appreciative of that.
And Olivia, I've messagedOlivia before and said don't
respond to this tonight, don'trespond to this.
And she knows that I'll sendmessages just because they come
to my thought, and if I don'tput it in Slack.
I don't text them to her.
We've also put tools into placethat don't interfere.
(26:06):
A personal text should besomething that's really
important.
Where do you draw the line onthat?
Speaker 2 (26:10):
I guess Even as different jobs, like, for
instance Olivia, you do a lotwith social media, so I know
(26:36):
that's a big deal.
I mean, as I've, you know,grown in, the landscape of
social has changed.
I think that people'sexpectations on messages have
kind of changed as well, becauseand this is going into a little
(27:00):
bit more of strategy but, likea lot of businesses don't even
respond Right.
So if you even get a responseto a message 24 hours later,
like that's still a big deal forpeople, so why put that
pressure on yourself to beanswering a message at 10 pm
(27:23):
when you know you'll get thesame result if you do it the
next day at 9 am or whatever?
it may be.
So I have changed on that,because I used to say social
media is like being a doctor youare on call 24 to 7.
It definitely doesn is likebeing a doctor you are on call
24 7.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
It definitely doesn't pay like a doctor, no, and it's
not a life or death situationeither so well and, to be honest
with you, if a bad response onsocial media is like going to
put your business out ofbusiness, your business probably
already isn't in a good placeyeah that's not a good place to
be.
Uh, because if you have a goodyou have good loyalty audience
(28:01):
that trusts you, they'reactually going to speak up for
you too.
So I agree too Like that'swhere I used to be like you
would think like we have torespond right now, but when, in
reality of it, you really don't.
I wanted to hear your thoughtson it, so I'm glad to hear that
(28:22):
and I think that that's it.
We have to set boundaries.
One of the things that I talkedabout with this individual was
setting expectations from thebeginning, from the start.
If someone's applying for thisjob, can we set those
expectations and then, if wehave to change them, have a
meeting and discuss that and seehow that's going to affect each
individual, Because you mighthave to make a decision.
Not that we're making thischange, but let's talk about
this is an issue that we'retrying to resolve.
(28:43):
We feel like we need to be moreavailable.
What does that look like?
How is that going to affect usin real life as well, and
outside of the work hours?
Those are importantconversations I think we have to
be open to having and I thinkGen Zs are probably really good
at that because, again, they'reI mean even with Ashton.
We know Ashton has told ushimself at jobs I don't need to
(29:05):
do this.
They're looking at new pathsand looking at being open to
changing.
I would like to ask peoplethat's listening let us know
what kind of boundaries wouldyou recommend to put into place.
Use that right there in theshow notes, just click that,
text us, let us know yourthoughts.
What defines an emergency inyour work field?
One person actually said well,here's the thing is that this is
(29:31):
the new norm.
Unfortunately, this is the newnorm and they don't really see a
way out of it.
And I said I understand whatyou're saying, but if we've
noticed that something isn'thealthy, should we just accept
it because it's the norm?
Should we?
Speaker 3 (30:00):
bigger problem that a person can't necessarily solve
all by themselves if they feellike their job's on the line.
So I don't want to beinsensitive to the fact that
there are plenty of people outthere barely making it
financially, and so if they justdecide one day like this isn't
okay anymore, it's not good forme.
That you know I can be reachedall the time.
I'm going to put an end to it,and then they might lose their
job, and so it's just acomplicated issue.
(30:21):
So while I think, like in anideal world, this shouldn't
happen, people shouldn't allowit.
Yes, it comes down toboundaries, but there are a lot
of people in a position wherethey might not feel like they
can set that boundary.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
That's why I feel like they feel trapped, like you
know.
I would encourage people like Ireally hope that any business
leaders listening to thispodcast will take this into a
real, real deep thoughts aboutyou know, really think about
this in your team, because ifyour team is running based off
of fear, that team is nevergoing to run to the capacity
that it could, which is notgoing to help your business.
(30:58):
Your team needs to be able tofeel like a safe place that they
can come and share these youknow what they're really dealing
with in these areas so yourteam can work better together.
I think helping us allunderstand how this affects us
because I mean those textmessages and those emails can
affect us on a mental healthside especially if you feel like
(31:20):
you're.
if you're doing this because outof fear you're going to lose
your job.
That's just such an unhealthyplace to be and it's not good
for either side.
Did you have something, olivia?
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Yeah, no, I totally agree with what Shawna was
saying.
Like it's a scary thing.
But also for me I which I'vegotten a lot better about this
is like comparing myself tosomeone else.
So I'm like if they're gettingin the text and they're
responding, that's gonna make melook bad and I am a good
(31:55):
employee, blah, blah, blah.
So again it does come out offear again of looking bad.
But what I've also come toterms with is you need as
leaders and upper management inyour company.
You're not doing yourself anyfavors by like running your
(32:16):
employees ragged, because Ialways think of like you can't
pour from an empty cup andyou're not getting your best
work from them if you don't letthem fully disconnect.
Like my friend and I starteddoing a thing because we've been
in work mode and we were like,well, we sat for two hours
(32:39):
straight, like that's ridiculous.
So we text each other and saylet's go for a 10 minute walk
and we've noticed that even that10 minute walk, we come back
and we're like, whoa, thatproblem, I was thinking about it
just hit me.
So again, if you're not lettingpeople relax their minds,
(33:00):
you're not getting your bestwork from them either.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Yes, that's such an important point that's what we
talked about in a past episodewas the importance of rest for
your mind.
It starts to make connectionsand you're better at problem
solving.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
I love it.
I do want to go ahead and coverone more before we wrap up,
because I had one more personthat responded and I thought
this is a good place to close upthis.
This person responded back andsaid we could also, you know,
have a personal, have personalboundaries and not respond
because we aren't paid to workafter hours, which is some of
(33:37):
the things we're talking about.
I'm like that is so truebecause I mean, as we mentioned
during that episode, I said well, I don't want to pay you 24
seven, so I don't expect you tobe available 24 seven.
I also don't want to buy youdifferent phones and stuff like
that.
They said that culture doesn'tneed to be legislated, and I see
(33:57):
exactly where they're comingfrom and I agree to that too.
I hate to have to put aregulation in.
We, as humans, should be ableto step back and really look at
the bigger picture here and lookat the problems that we're
seeing burnout and all thesethings happening.
I mean even with when peoplewere able to start working from
home, more remote, they've hadseveral reports that come out
(34:18):
that show that people areworking more hours than they did
before working from home.
That's a fact it's on the whatis it?
Statista and all that.
We've looked up those numbersand is that okay?
I don't think it is.
I think we really need to beaware of that and wonder look at
this situation in youremployees and look at maybe why
they're feeling stressed,overwhelmed.
But they said this the culturedoesn't need to be legislated.
(34:42):
Boundaries are ours to set.
Even if you're in a tough place, if you're in a work
environment that you don't feellike you can, you have to really
look and evaluate yourself andsay is this healthy for me?
It's not about going andquitting your job, hopefully.
Go talk to your leadership,talk to them, be open, see how
they respond.
Because if you're working Now,this is just me, but if I'm
(35:02):
working for somebody and I'vegot the nickname of being a
maverick, but if I'm workingwith someone that doesn't
respect that and understand thatfrom my health, then I'm going
to start making an exit plan,like, okay, I've got to find
somewhere where they do respectme as a human.
And I do feel like we areseeing that with younger
generations, like Gen Zs andstuff, they're being very
(35:22):
cautious and millennials aboutthat type of work environment.
But they said this at the end.
No corporation can mandate thatyou have to do this.
This is what I love the most.
We got to keep helping peoplesee the possibilities, and
that's what I love about whatwe're doing here in the Mindful
Bites podcast.
The whole thing is we don'thave all the answers, but we're
trying to help us become moreaware, be more mindful of how
(35:45):
technology, and even our actionsfrom these technologies, are
affecting each other's lives.
So with that, I want to thankeverybody for tuning in to this
episode of the podcast.
Make sure you, if you want tosend us some fan mail.
We'd love to hear your thoughtson our discussions and if you
enjoyed today's episode, don'tforget to click follow and leave
us a review.
In 2017, france gave workers the right to ignore work
communications outside ofworking hours.
Should we adopt some kind ofsimilar law?
Put something into place?
One person actually said youknow, unfortunately this is the
new norm and they don't reallysee a way out of it.
And I said I understand whatyou're saying, but if we've
noticed that something isn'thealthy, should we just accept
(00:22):
it because it's the norm?
All right, welcome to thisspecial episode of the Mindful
Bites.
If you just heard that noise,you're probably wondering what
was that?
That was confetti.
We were actually hosting a livepodcast recording right here in
the metaverse at the Killer BeeStudios.
We'll be doing this once amonth and during this podcast
episode, we're going to beactually reading the fan mail
(00:44):
that's coming in from some ofthe questions and thoughts we've
asked for everybody's responsefor during the podcast
throughout the month.
So I want to first start off byapologizing for anybody that's
listening to this episode, as Iam a Gen Xer, which you're going
to hear here in a minute.
As everybody already knows, genX is also, since we're older.
I guess we kind of forgetthings and I forgot that this
(01:06):
episode was supposed to be inthe metaverse this week and
reading the fan mail.
So I told everybody last episodethat we were going to go deeper
into how businesses and fromthe Entrepreneurs Magazine was
talking about how sevenbusinesses are using AI.
So that will.
We are going to cover that, butit won't be during this episode
, so please don't click unfollowor leave us a bad review.
(01:27):
Uh, but we will be covering it.
Covering that.
That episode will drop thefirst week of august, I believe.
So if I'm wrong again, I'm surethe sassy millennial is gonna
let me know oh yeah I will okaywith that.
Let's go ahead and introduceourselves.
We'll start off with mad oliviaI'm Olivia, your sassy savvy
millennial.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Hey everybody, I'm Shawna and I am your Xenial
digital dinosaur.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
I'm Ashton, your Gen Z tech enthusiast.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
And I'm Brian, your Gen X.
Forget everything, businessleader, except for I shouldn't
forget clients and the thingsthat we have to do right.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
There's a lot of things you shouldn't forget.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah, please don't.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Here's people listening to the podcast.
You're going to have tounderstand that in the metaverse
we have different names.
We have Mrs Killer Bee, whichis Shawna, mr Killer Bee, which
is me, brian, but Olivia isOlivia, and Arcane Noman is
actually Ashton, so we mightcall each other by different
names in here and you're gonnabe like who are these people?
The same people, it's withmetaverse avatar names.
(02:26):
Let's go ahead.
I know that you know we'regoing to be talking a little bit
about generations today and Iknow, sauna, that's something
that you wanted to bring in anddiscuss and then after that
we're going to talk about.
We're going to talk about someof the fan mail that's coming,
some of the responses aboutpeople's thoughts and response
to the law from France about theright to disconnect.
(02:49):
So I'm really interested totalk about that.
So, Shawna, speaking ofgenerations, what did you want
to talk about?
Speaker 3 (02:54):
So we joke a lot about the differences in
generations, especially on ourpanel, because we consider
ourselves four differentgenerations bringing different
perspectives to all thingstechnology and so I've been
thinking a lot about thatspecifically because I've
noticed how common it is now forpeople of different generations
(03:17):
to either belittle other peoplein other generations or just to
in general feel superior forone reason or another.
So I was kind of thinking aboutthat and reading articles about
it and things like that and Ifound some really interesting
information that I thought youguys would be interested in.
So as I was thinking through itI realized that probably part
(03:41):
of the problem is that thatprobably part of the problem is
that you know older generationssee the world changing so fast
and see younger generations withdifferent values and going
about things in different waysand you know, probably also
there's some fear there aboutwhat is going to happen in the
future.
You know young people ingeneral are kind of more hopeful
(04:02):
and looking forward to thefuture and feel better able to
adapt to it.
So I think that could be partof the problem.
And then sometimes maybeyounger generations are annoyed
with how long it takes olderpeople to adapt to things and,
you know, be resistant tochanges in technology.
I mean, obviously you've seenthat a lot in me.
I'll resist all the technologyif I can.
(04:24):
But where the problem comes inis if we start to isolate
ourselves from people of otherages, if you are degrading or
belittling to other people.
So that's kind of what I wantedto talk about was some ideas
about how we can bridge the gapbetween generations, and so one
(04:47):
of the ways is by avoidinggeneralizations.
So in our neighborhood there'sthis group of kids that just
kind of wander around all thetime.
They play ball in the grassyareas and they, you know, go
fishing, do all kinds of fun kidstuff.
And I have heard both of thesethings.
I have heard older people inour neighborhood say kids never
(05:12):
go outside anymore, they justsit on their devices all day.
And then I've also heard peoplesay why are those kids outside
all the time?
Where are their parents?
And it just kind of illustratedto me the humor of like nobody
can ever do anything right.
You know what you're doing somepeople are going to think is
wrong for one reason, somepeople are going to think it's
(05:34):
wrong for another reason.
But it was just a funny thingto me when I heard people
talking about this particulargroup of kids.
But you know, avoidinggeneralization means that you
don't say like Ashton wastalking about this the other day
.
Ashton, what are some of thegeneralizations you've heard
about Gen Z?
Speaker 4 (05:55):
That we won't be a hardworking generation.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Olivia, what's a generalization?
You've heard about millennials.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
I agree even with Ashton, like millennials are
lazy Wow.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
So it's shocking to me because you know, we know and
hang out with people of allgenerations and so you know I've
seen firsthand, specifically inMetaLivia and Arcane, how
hardworking they are and howcreative.
You know, I do feel like I'veheard people say that about Gen
(06:29):
Z like they're lazy and they'renot.
They're not hardworking.
But the amazing thing that I'veseen out of both of your
generations different people inyour generations is like
unwillingness to just do thingsthe way they've always been done
, because you see better ways todo them quicker, more efficient
.
You know, more creative, and Ithink that's an amazing thing.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Well, I would say with a millennial.
So that's Olivia, correct,olivia, you follow your
millennials.
So I mean, I remember all thepushback saying millennials
don't do nothing, they're lazy.
But you know, and from a GenXer, I would say that you know.
From Gen X, I think people werelike we're in boomers maybe, if
they want to just get thingsdone and go forward and and
knock it out, which is a goodthing and a and a bad thing at
(07:13):
times as well.
But we've watched and witnessedmillennials that, yes, they
might be slower at makingdecisions but it seems like
they're very good at processingbefore taking that step, which
I've recognized.
And with Gen Z, I recognize GenZ more with Ashton I know you
(07:33):
said this for both, but I see ita lot in Gen Zs probably even
more, at least from myexperience that Gen Zs aren't as
quick as saying hey, I don'thave to do things the way
they've always been done.
They're asking more questions,which I think is something that
we're stepping into an era wherewe really need to be asking
more questions across the board.
But I like how you point outthat these what did you call it
(07:53):
Like?
It's almost like a generational, like discrimination, almost.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Oh, I didn't call it that, but I like that.
I think that's very accurate.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
I think that is what it is, and it separates us.
I mean, there's so much that wecan learn from each other that
this discrimination ingenerations actually prevents us
from, I feel like, fromevolving even further, because
we can really learn so much fromeach other, like you were
sharing how we can help eachother out.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
But that kind of leads me into the second way to
bridge gaps in generations is byspending time with people in
all generations, because it's alot harder to have negative
feelings about people if youactually spend time with them
and hear their thoughts and hearthe way they see the world and
how they want to do things.
So the third way is to mentorsomebody, and this one's really
(08:47):
exciting to me because it's notabout older people mentoring
younger people, it's aboutpeople of all ages mentoring
people.
So imagine this.
Imagine if you're a personthat's great at technology and
you are understanding all ofthese new things that are coming
up.
There's someone in your lifewho's older, who's feeling
frustrated and overwhelmed andmaybe even angry about the
(09:10):
things of technology that theydon't understand.
You could help them, comealongside of them and say do you
want to learn that?
Do you want to learn about AIor do you want to learn about
the metaverse?
And then it's a beneficialrelationship both ways, because
they will start to see how youlook at the world.
You will learn from them andthe wisdom of their age and you
(09:33):
know it's a beautiful thing, andthen we can start to bridge
some of those gaps where rightnow I feel like, you know,
people of different ages arepulling even further away from
each other.
So, yes, that's what I justwanted to talk about.
You know, when I startedthinking through it and reading,
I thought, you know, it wouldbe really fun to talk to you all
about it.
(09:53):
People might have been confusedthat I called myself a Xennial,
which is not a technicalgeneration, but it is a micro
generation in between X andmillennial, because I was born
in 1980.
And, depending on whose numbersyou're looking at, sometimes I
fall in Gen X, sometimes I fallin millennial.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
But I really actually don't want to identify.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
You don't want to choose.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
I don't actually fit into either one.
That's why they created thismicro generation is because it
is a short little time where wekind of have a mix of both of
those generations of thecharacteristics I want to say
another good thing aboutdifferent generations, so I'll
start with you with Generation X.
(10:41):
I love about people withGeneration from the Generation X
like such a strong desire tolike build something to make the
world better to like,especially in business.
I could see that you know, a lotof the biggest businesses in
the world right now were builtby people from Generation X.
Had a desire like, grew up witha desire not to just possibly
(11:05):
like go work at a factory or go,you know, do like following
your parents' footsteps, butlike build something new and
great, and so I think that's agreat thing about Generation X
and millennials.
What I love and I see this a lotnow on Instagram and things
like that is how importantyou're taking mental health and
(11:26):
you did not see that especially,let's say, 10, 20 years ago In
our generations people didn'ttalk about it.
If you said you're going to atherapist, people thought, oh
gosh, you must be nuts.
So I think that's such ahealthy thing that you're
bringing to the world and to theyou know every other generation
really and Generation Z.
(11:46):
I love what I feel like I'mseeing in the workplace as your
generation is coming into theworkplace is like a willingness
to push back against rules thatare in place that don't make
sense, or rules that maybe arethere for, like the leader's
convenience, but not necessarilybest for business or for
treating people the way theyshould be treated, and I think
(12:08):
that's a beautiful thing too.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Can I point out?
I know Olivia's got somethingshe wants to add to it, but I do
want to point out somethingthat you just said there.
You said how Gen Z's push back,and I think that's something
that us Gen Xers, and really anygeneration, should really be
paying attention to, because Ifeel like asking questions is
received as more as pushing back.
But I think we have to stoplooking at it as that negative
(12:35):
approach, because I mean I knowyou did not mean it negatively,
but as a Gen.
Xer, we could take that as, likethey're pushing back, they're
against authority, disrespectful, disrespectful, disrespectful
and that's not.
I mean.
You can go to that point.
Sure, a lot of times I thinkit's.
They're just, they're askingdeeper questions that we
probably even ourselves havebeen asking.
We're ignoring, right, we'reignoring that.
(12:58):
Go ahead, olivia.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, I was going to say positive with.
You know, even with Gen X andadding boomers into that is
their resilience and they somany I mean, that generate those
generations were, um, theypaved the way for the rest of us
(13:20):
to be able to do what we do,right, Because they didn't have
the technology or they wentthrough a lot of tough
situations.
And so I think that is what ispositive about them, is they
really did pave the way for therest of us to be able to do what
(13:44):
we do.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
That's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yeah, that's so true.
And for a Xenial, I mean, Ithink it is a positive that you
which I would say this about amillennial but is the fact that
you have some of the old schoolmentality but also the new
school mentality?
I think it is a superpower tobe able to have the best of both
(14:14):
of those worlds and be able toadapt in both those ways.
Oh yeah, and then Gen Z I feellike things change for them so
(14:37):
quickly that I think it's reallygood again how they can adopt
new things so quickly.
A generation that is moreopen-minded than any other
generation that we've seen andthey care a ton about making the
world a better place, which alot of people are like.
Oh my gosh, I'm scared thatthis person on their phone is
going to be running the country,but I'm actually excited
(15:00):
because I think that they havegreat hearts and they just don't
get enough credit.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Yeah, I completely agree, and I love how thought.
You see how well Olivia thoughtthrough that answer too Like
that's a millennial.
She really went deep into eachone, and you can say something
more about Gen X if you'd like.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
I mean, I welcome it anytime you can call me, text me
.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
I have a phone, you can text me I do know, how to
use text messaging.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
You can page me.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Please page me, you could use the next style
walkie-talkie.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Arcane, how about yourself?
I try not to stereotype.
I'm not good at saying yourgeneration is good at that, your
generation is good at that.
Generation is good at that.
Every generation has a place.
Every previous generation givesa path for the new generation
that's a very Gen?
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Z answer.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
I don't see.
I don't see generations.
I try not to use stereotypesthat's a.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
That's a beautiful Gen Z answer 100% something he
said that I think ties it alltogether, though, is, he said,
everyone has a place.
Yes, that's a beautiful Gen Z.
Answer A hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Well, I mean, he said that, I think ties it all
together, though, is he saideveryone has a place.
That's exactly the point.
So nice job, ashton.
I love that we were able tocome on here and explain that at
first.
So for everybody that's alreadybeen listening to the podcast
yes, we pick fun of each otherbecause we're different
generations and we havedifferent perspectives.
We have fun with it, butultimately, all around here, we
respect each other.
We respect each other, werespect each other's views and
input, and I think that'ssomething that we want to
(16:34):
encourage through Mindful Bitesas well, as we continue to talk
about tech and social media andbusiness, and just our mental
health as well.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
And respect for the generations that are not, you
know, reflected on this panel.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Yeah, I don't think boomers would ever be able to
get on a headset, or maybe.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Oh, that's not true, do we?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
have any boomers in the house?
Any boomers in the house?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Oh, yeah, boomers right there, yes.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yeah, welcome Bo yeah , representing the boomers right
here.
Yeah, welcome Bo yeah,representing the boomers right
here.
One of the things that we dohere, one of the points of this
episode segment of the MindfulBytes, is we want to host it
live once a month.
It'll be the fourth Wednesdayevery month at 11 am here at
Killer Bee Studios, and this isa time that we're going to bring
in some of the feedback fromour podcast.
(17:20):
So, if you're listening to thepodcast, we want to hear your
input on the things that we'retalking about.
So all you do is look at theshow notes and click that text
me.
You can text us a thought, aquestion, and then we'll bring
it to this session right here ofthe Mindful Bites podcast.
All right?
So here's the question that Iput out and that we had some
feedback on.
I wanted to bring it to thepanel here for us to discuss.
(17:43):
Shana actually brought up duringthe last episode about the law
that France put into place.
So I did some research and Idid find out that it was in 2017
when this law was put intoplace, and here's what the law
is it's called the right todisconnect.
Now, during that episode, wetalked about how we, you know,
with all the digital technology,it's hard to get away from work
(18:06):
and stuff.
It's almost like that's what'sexpected out of us.
And in 2017, france gaveworkers the right to ignore work
communications outside ofworking hours.
This law was put into place tohelp employees truly disconnect
after leaving the office.
So I put out a question, I askedpeople's feedback, like do you
think that this is somethingthat the U?
So I put out a question and Iasked people's feedback, like do
you think that this issomething that the US should
(18:29):
adopt?
Should we adopt some kind ofsimilar law?
Put something into place?
Is it necessary?
And I want to read some of theresponses that I got.
I want to hear your guys' input.
So first, yeah, so first,here's one of the responses
Great idea, great idea.
I feel the pressure to respondto text or emails when it's from
they feel the pressure torespond to text or emails when
(18:51):
it's from their coworker, andthat they've set boundaries on
email, but still text, stillcomes in from time to time,
which can frustrate them.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
What are your guys' thoughts about that?
I mean, yeah, I would befrustrated too, and it's hard
when you try to set boundariesand then people don't respect
them too, so I would befrustrated too.
What?
Speaker 2 (19:14):
do you guys think I mean, I think it's hard, I get
what they're saying so toactually have more of an
overarching law, I think wouldbe great, because sometimes,
even if you set boundaries I'venoticed this If you give into it
one time, then the person justthinks that the boundaries are
(19:35):
gone for good, and so that'swhat gets frustrating as well.
Good point.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
You know, I actually, you know, coming from the
business leader perspective whenI received that message, one of
my thoughts were was I'veprobably sent some of those
texts out and I've been on theother side too, where I've
gotten frustrated because peopleare texting me after hours and
what I responded to thisindividual was saying I had to
(20:01):
learn that, I had to learn formyself that a simple text to
someone off hours could besaying something that me, as a
business leader, never intendedto say.
I might work later in some ofthe later hours and I might send
a message out and not thinkingthat they're going to receive it
as oh man, it's not what I'msaying without receive it as oh
man, like it's not like it, whatI'm saying without saying it is
I don't value your time.
(20:23):
So I think any business leaderslistening to the podcast take
that into consideration.
With people that are that areyour team members, your
employees, like, I don't thinkwe mean it always in a bad way.
I'm sure there are some that do.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Oh yeah, there's no doubt that there are plenty of
bosses that are expecting peopleto be reachable all the time.
But you know, olivia readsomething to us in the last
episode that said it was about aleader who you know.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
Someone had just started.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Remember talking about that, olivia, and he wrote
in the email please don't feelthe need to answer right now.
This is when I work the best,but please respond when you work
the best, that's.
I think it comes down tocommunication.
Like, if you're texting someonewhen it's not their work time,
that automatically is going totake their mind back into work
time, so that's disrespectful.
An email you know they have tomake their own choice if they're
(21:16):
going to read their email ornot.
An email you know they have tomake their own choice if they're
going to read their email ornot.
But if you tell them I don'texpect you to answer this until
you're working.
That clears up any sort ofexpectation that you know that
they may have or you may have.
It all comes down tocommunication.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Yeah, that's actually interesting because I had
someone else that wrote back andthey said that they feel like
it's necessary, that a work-lifebalance is a term that is
overused but still useful.
We use that term a lot but Idon't think we follow that term
really as well as we could.
And they said I don't like thefact that it needs to be
(21:51):
regulated.
Common sense should dictate it.
We already know that by commonsense that we shouldn't do that,
and I pointed out.
I was like well, common senseisn't as common today.
Unfortunately, I don't thinkthat it seems like it's
something easy to be like yeah,that's common sense, but I don't
think the technology has becomemade us, made us so accessible
that I don't think it's even acommon sense issue as much as I
(22:12):
don't think, it's just thetechnology has made it so easily
accessible to reach out to eachother that we don't take into
account that, hey, this is anindividual person, that life
does not revolve around this job, and it shouldn't.
Even a good leader should knowthat their team members' lives.
They have lives outside of work, they have families that
they're taking care of, theyhave children, they have friends
(22:34):
, you know, and we have to berespectful of that, because when
we send those messages, or weexpect them to respond from a
text message or a email afterhours, we're actually coming in
between them and their familytoo, which is not good.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Yeah, I think saying that you have to use your common
sense is really anoversimplification, because
there's a lot of things at play.
There can be power dynamics.
A employee can feel like ifthey're not accessible then
they'll just get replaced.
So there's all sorts ofinsecurity there about keeping
your job.
(23:09):
Or maybe they're trying to bepromoted, so they feel like they
have to really go the extramile, and there's all sorts of
things that play.
So it can't come down to commonsense.
If you know you feel thepressure to do this for a
multiple you know, for multiplereasons.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
The thing with common sense is also, people have
different definition of worklife balance.
Like for someone else, theycould be, you know, a workaholic
and their work-life balance isI only work 60 hours this week
versus you know the 70 I usuallywork, or whatever, so that it
(23:53):
kind of makes it tough.
But I also think that there arecareers where you know what
you're getting yourself into.
In regards to that.
For example, if you're like adoctor or a surgeon, you have
the expectation that you have tobe on call sometimes, or even
(24:15):
lawyers on call sometimes, oreven lawyers, because if they
have to prep for a case, youhave to work those extra,
communicate at odd times orwhatever, because you have to be
, in court.
So but for I think also and thisis not, I don't think it's
stereotyping generations, butmaybe it is but I feel like, you
(24:41):
know, gen X comes from adifferent working mentality,
where you have to work 40 hoursa week or you didn't accomplish
everything that you possiblycould have, and that's just not
the case anymore with technologyand all those different things
(25:02):
yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Well, I think that you touched on something there
that I think is important Withthis individual.
I responded back to him andasked him further, like because
they made a mention aboutsetting boundaries, and I'm like
I think that's great.
Boundaries should be set andrespected on both sides, like
even right now.
Like Boundaries should be setand respected on both sides,
even right now.
We use Slack and one of ourteam members is in Finland and I
can see now which I love thison Slack it tells me what time
(25:24):
it is and it's like seven hoursdifference.
And I actually reached out tohim and I said hey, just want to
make sure, do you have yournotifications turned off during
evening hours, because I'm goingto be messaging you and it's
way later for you and I want tomake sure it's not interrupting
because they have a new baby.
It's like being mindful oftheir whole real life situation
(25:46):
outside of work.
And he said, yes, I have themsilenced and stuff, but he was
very appreciative of that.
And Olivia, I've messagedOlivia before and said don't
respond to this tonight, don'trespond to this.
And she knows that I'll sendmessages just because they come
to my thought, and if I don'tput it in Slack.
I don't text them to her.
We've also put tools into placethat don't interfere.
(26:06):
A personal text should besomething that's really
important.
Where do you draw the line onthat?
Speaker 2 (26:10):
I guess Even as different jobs, like, for
instance Olivia, you do a lotwith social media, so I know
(26:36):
that's a big deal.
I mean, as I've, you know,grown in, the landscape of
social has changed.
I think that people'sexpectations on messages have
kind of changed as well, becauseand this is going into a little
(27:00):
bit more of strategy but, likea lot of businesses don't even
respond Right.
So if you even get a responseto a message 24 hours later,
like that's still a big deal forpeople, so why put that
pressure on yourself to beanswering a message at 10 pm
(27:23):
when you know you'll get thesame result if you do it the
next day at 9 am or whatever?
it may be.
So I have changed on that,because I used to say social
media is like being a doctor youare on call 24 to 7.
It definitely doesn is likebeing a doctor you are on call
24 7.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
It definitely doesn't pay like a doctor, no, and it's
not a life or death situationeither so well and, to be honest
with you, if a bad response onsocial media is like going to
put your business out ofbusiness, your business probably
already isn't in a good placeyeah that's not a good place to
be.
Uh, because if you have a goodyou have good loyalty audience
(28:01):
that trusts you, they'reactually going to speak up for
you too.
So I agree too Like that'swhere I used to be like you
would think like we have torespond right now, but when, in
reality of it, you really don't.
I wanted to hear your thoughtson it, so I'm glad to hear that
(28:22):
and I think that that's it.
We have to set boundaries.
One of the things that I talkedabout with this individual was
setting expectations from thebeginning, from the start.
If someone's applying for thisjob, can we set those
expectations and then, if wehave to change them, have a
meeting and discuss that and seehow that's going to affect each
individual, Because you mighthave to make a decision.
Not that we're making thischange, but let's talk about
this is an issue that we'retrying to resolve.
(28:43):
We feel like we need to be moreavailable.
What does that look like?
How is that going to affect usin real life as well, and
outside of the work hours?
Those are importantconversations I think we have to
be open to having and I thinkGen Zs are probably really good
at that because, again, they'reI mean even with Ashton.
We know Ashton has told ushimself at jobs I don't need to
(29:05):
do this.
They're looking at new pathsand looking at being open to
changing.
I would like to ask peoplethat's listening let us know
what kind of boundaries wouldyou recommend to put into place.
Use that right there in theshow notes, just click that,
text us, let us know yourthoughts.
What defines an emergency inyour work field?
One person actually said well,here's the thing is that this is
(29:31):
the new norm.
Unfortunately, this is the newnorm and they don't really see a
way out of it.
And I said I understand whatyou're saying, but if we've
noticed that something isn'thealthy, should we just accept
it because it's the norm?
Should we?
Speaker 3 (30:00):
bigger problem that a person can't necessarily solve
all by themselves if they feellike their job's on the line.
So I don't want to beinsensitive to the fact that
there are plenty of people outthere barely making it
financially, and so if they justdecide one day like this isn't
okay anymore, it's not good forme.
That you know I can be reachedall the time.
I'm going to put an end to it,and then they might lose their
job, and so it's just acomplicated issue.
(30:21):
So while I think, like in anideal world, this shouldn't
happen, people shouldn't allowit.
Yes, it comes down toboundaries, but there are a lot
of people in a position wherethey might not feel like they
can set that boundary.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
That's why I feel like they feel trapped, like you
know.
I would encourage people like Ireally hope that any business
leaders listening to thispodcast will take this into a
real, real deep thoughts aboutyou know, really think about
this in your team, because ifyour team is running based off
of fear, that team is nevergoing to run to the capacity
that it could, which is notgoing to help your business.
(30:58):
Your team needs to be able tofeel like a safe place that they
can come and share these youknow what they're really dealing
with in these areas so yourteam can work better together.
I think helping us allunderstand how this affects us
because I mean those textmessages and those emails can
affect us on a mental healthside especially if you feel like
(31:20):
you're.
if you're doing this because outof fear you're going to lose
your job.
That's just such an unhealthyplace to be and it's not good
for either side.
Did you have something, olivia?
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Yeah, no, I totally agree with what Shawna was
saying.
Like it's a scary thing.
But also for me I which I'vegotten a lot better about this
is like comparing myself tosomeone else.
So I'm like if they're gettingin the text and they're
responding, that's gonna make melook bad and I am a good
(31:55):
employee, blah, blah, blah.
So again it does come out offear again of looking bad.
But what I've also come toterms with is you need as
leaders and upper management inyour company.
You're not doing yourself anyfavors by like running your
(32:16):
employees ragged, because Ialways think of like you can't
pour from an empty cup andyou're not getting your best
work from them if you don't letthem fully disconnect.
Like my friend and I starteddoing a thing because we've been
in work mode and we were like,well, we sat for two hours
(32:39):
straight, like that's ridiculous.
So we text each other and saylet's go for a 10 minute walk
and we've noticed that even that10 minute walk, we come back
and we're like, whoa, thatproblem, I was thinking about it
just hit me.
So again, if you're not lettingpeople relax their minds,
(33:00):
you're not getting your bestwork from them either.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Yes, that's such an important point that's what we
talked about in a past episodewas the importance of rest for
your mind.
It starts to make connectionsand you're better at problem
solving.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
I love it.
I do want to go ahead and coverone more before we wrap up,
because I had one more personthat responded and I thought
this is a good place to close upthis.
This person responded back andsaid we could also, you know,
have a personal, have personalboundaries and not respond
because we aren't paid to workafter hours, which is some of
(33:37):
the things we're talking about.
I'm like that is so truebecause I mean, as we mentioned
during that episode, I said well, I don't want to pay you 24
seven, so I don't expect you tobe available 24 seven.
I also don't want to buy youdifferent phones and stuff like
that.
They said that culture doesn'tneed to be legislated, and I see
(33:57):
exactly where they're comingfrom and I agree to that too.
I hate to have to put aregulation in.
We, as humans, should be ableto step back and really look at
the bigger picture here and lookat the problems that we're
seeing burnout and all thesethings happening.
I mean even with when peoplewere able to start working from
home, more remote, they've hadseveral reports that come out
(34:18):
that show that people areworking more hours than they did
before working from home.
That's a fact it's on the whatis it?
Statista and all that.
We've looked up those numbersand is that okay?
I don't think it is.
I think we really need to beaware of that and wonder look at
this situation in youremployees and look at maybe why
they're feeling stressed,overwhelmed.
But they said this the culturedoesn't need to be legislated.
(34:42):
Boundaries are ours to set.
Even if you're in a tough place, if you're in a work
environment that you don't feellike you can, you have to really
look and evaluate yourself andsay is this healthy for me?
It's not about going andquitting your job, hopefully.
Go talk to your leadership,talk to them, be open, see how
they respond.
Because if you're working Now,this is just me, but if I'm
(35:02):
working for somebody and I'vegot the nickname of being a
maverick, but if I'm workingwith someone that doesn't
respect that and understand thatfrom my health, then I'm going
to start making an exit plan,like, okay, I've got to find
somewhere where they do respectme as a human.
And I do feel like we areseeing that with younger
generations, like Gen Zs andstuff, they're being very
(35:22):
cautious and millennials aboutthat type of work environment.
But they said this at the end.
No corporation can mandate thatyou have to do this.
This is what I love the most.
We got to keep helping peoplesee the possibilities, and
that's what I love about whatwe're doing here in the Mindful
Bites podcast.
The whole thing is we don'thave all the answers, but we're
trying to help us become moreaware, be more mindful of how
(35:45):
technology, and even our actionsfrom these technologies, are
affecting each other's lives.
So with that, I want to thankeverybody for tuning in to this
episode of the podcast.
Make sure you, if you want tosend us some fan mail.
We'd love to hear your thoughtson our discussions and if you
enjoyed today's episode, don'tforget to click follow and leave
us a review.
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