November 14, 2025 • 27 mins
Text "clarity" to 33777 to access her free community with resources to help identify what truly lights you up.
What if your struggle with time management isn't about time at all? When lawyer Michelle Neimeyer received a devastating diagnosis of primary biliary cholangitis—a rare autoimmune disease that typically leads to liver failure—she embarked on a journey that would completely transform her understanding of health, productivity, and fulfillment.
Michelle shares how, despite following what she believed was a healthy lifestyle with intense workouts and protein shakes, her body was silently rebelling. The shocking diagnosis forced her to question everything she thought she knew about wellness. Working with alternative practitioners and studying nutrition, she implemented radical lifestyle changes that not only normalized her liver function but reversed damage her doctors hadn't believed was possible.
The unexpected side effect? Her persistent brain fog lifted. Her energy skyrocketed. The burnout that had plagued her legal career vanished. At nearly 60, she began feeling like she was in her twenties again. Michelle realized that what she had interpreted as a time management problem was actually her body crying out for proper care—a revelation that led her to create "The Art of Bending Time."
Now a certified health coach, Michelle works with busy professionals who feel they're sacrificing their lives for their careers. She reveals how chronic stress, poor nutrition, and neglect of crucial systems like lymphatic drainage directly impact cognitive performance and energy levels. By identifying what she calls "sparks"—the small, everyday sources of joy that fuel sustainable energy—her clients learn to prevent burnout while accomplishing more meaningful work.
Whether you're feeling overwhelmed, unfocused, or simply curious about the connection between physical health and productivity, Michelle's story offers a compelling alternative to conventional approaches to time management and professional success. Text "clarity" to 33777 to access her free community with resources to help identify what truly lights you up.
Sponsor Affiliates
Empowering Your Health
Get YOUR Own
Joburg Protein Snacks
Discount Code: Damaris15 Or Damaris18
Feeling need to Lose Weight & Become metabolically Healthy
GET METABOLIC COURSE GLP 1 REseT
This course is designed for individuals looking to optimize their metabolic health through integrative and functional medicine approaches. Whether you're on a GLP-1 medication or seeking natural ways to enhance your metabolic function, this course provides actionable steps, expert insights, and a personalized roadmap sustainable wellness.
Are you feeling stressed, tired, or Metabolism imbalanced?
Take advantage of our free mindful steps to help improve your well-being.
ENJOY ONE OF our Books
Mindful Ways Health Wealth & Life
https://stan.store/Mindfullyintegrative
Join Yearly membership ALL IN ONE FUNCTION HEALTH
Ask Us for help...
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi, how are you?
This is Dr Damaris MurrayGrossman and this is the
Mindfully Integrated Show.
And today we have an amazingguest, michelle, who's going to
tell you about her art ofbending time and art of bending,
and she's a lawyer and alsohealth advocate for those and
for herself, and she wants tokind of tell her story and how
she kind of came to, why she iswhere she is now and why her
(00:22):
perspective on health isdifferent than maybe your
perspective is and how we canmake change.
So it's a great pleasure tomeet you and I really am looking
forward to hearing more aboutyou.
We talked a little bit about itbefore the show, but I want
people to know you and how's itgoing.
How are you, michelle?
And I wanted to make sure is itNeimeyer?
It's.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Neimeyer like Neiman Marcus, but it's pronounced
correctly.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Wonderful, so thanks for being on.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Well, thank you, and you know, as I told you, I was
so excited to talk to somebodywho's about integrative medicine
, because that's really what ledme down the path to getting to
creating this program that Icall the Art of Bending Time
getting to creating this programthat I call the Art of Bending
Time.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
I love the name, but you know you have a reasons for
why.
I mean, I don't know what youknow would like to discuss with
the audience and you know whatyou'd like to share.
But you know one, how did youget to this point?
And then, two, you know what isyour?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
no-transcript.
I lost 35 pounds.
I was exercising, doing HIITworkouts, taking shakes that
were protein, primarily proteinand they have a shake called
Shakeology that has a bunch ofstuff in it probiotics and
prebiotics and some varioussupplements and I felt really
(02:11):
good.
I had about a year of thatwhere I was like I'm doing great
and then I had a UTI and I hada blood test and the blood test
came back with these very, veryelevated liver enzymes and that
turned into what I'm sure a lotof people that you talk to have
(02:34):
experienced, where it's like ohmy God, this is very scary and
I'm just a primary care doctor.
I don't know anything aboutthis.
You need to go see thisspecialist.
So I went and I saw agastroenterologist who tried to
tell me that I had somethingthey call overlap syndrome,
which is really, really bad.
I did not have that and I wentto a hepatologist who ultimately
(03:00):
got me to my current doctor,who's really exceptional, and
what I have is called primarybiliary cholangitis PBC.
It's a very rare autoimmunedisease and I've had enough
experience with people I knowhaving autoimmunity and I had
had some experience in my lawpractice.
(03:23):
I had early on in my lawpractice I represented insurance
companies in the coverage casesthat had to do with breast
implants, where early I don'tknow if you even remember this,
but in the nineties there were alot of lawsuits because women
were saying that silicone breastimplants were causing them to
get fibromyalgia and, you know,lupus and all kinds of
(03:47):
autoimmune diseases.
So I had learned a lot aboutthat and kind of the.
You know the general concept ofthat you've got a genetic
predisposition and that there'ssomething that would trigger the
disease and that you know andthat you know and I also knew
that traditional, standard MDkind of medicine didn't always
(04:07):
give you answers.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
It didn't always give you Right, they were.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
you know, the full info that you get is we don't
know what causes this, there'sno cure and we hope that you
know.
By taking this drug we canminimize the symptoms which in
my case would, if left unchecked, lead to liver failure.
And you know, getting this wasreally scary because it was like
(04:35):
I was seeing things online like10-year lifespan and liver
transplants and you know thatkind of thing liver transplants
and you know that kind of thingCrazy Like.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I mean it's an intense, you know disorder and
it's like something that no oneI mean it's like you said it's
where I hadn't heard of itmyself and the fact that you
were able to find treatment andfind something outside of the
average, you know whateverthey're, you know, like I said,
the liver treatment and 10 yearsFirst, what made you look into
further things?
Obviously it's for your health,but how did you come about to
there, to you know, to whereyou're at now?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Right.
Well, part of it was that I Ihad a friend who was a
naturopath and he practiced inCalifornia.
He owned a home.
He had grown up in Miami whereI live, and owned a home in
Florida.
He had grown up in Miami, whereI live, and owned a home in
Florida and you know I knewbecause I had talked to him
about this he had written a bookabout curing cancer with
nutrition and he had also donehe was actually Montel Williams'
(05:38):
doctor for his MS.
So he had done a lot of, youknow, treating people with
autoimmunity.
And so the first call I madewas to him to say listen, like
should I be doing anything?
And you know he advised me todo some various things.
We looked at my whole history,like you know, really deep on
(06:02):
what did you used to eat whenyou were a kid and what do you
eat now and what was your healthhistory as a kid.
And I now understand havingbecome certified as a health
coach, you know we were lookingat timelines to find things like
did I have antibiotics?
I had so many antibiotics as akid Like I was the kid who
always had an ear infection andalways had strep and always had,
(06:23):
you know, and it was constantantibiotics.
My body probably has no, had nomicrobiome, except the bad
stuff that came back and came inlater, you know.
So I I learned a lot about thatkind of stuff and then I
started making big changes.
I went raw foods for a while.
I then went through a kind oflike a Whole30 type of
(06:48):
elimination diet.
There's a doctor out therenamed Amy Myers.
I followed her protocol, learnedI had a very bad problem with
gluten, you know and over timesort of found my own groove with
a different kind of exercise.
I'm not nearly as hard on mybody anymore as far as exercise
goes.
I walk a lot, I stretch, I dovarious things, but I'm not like
(07:12):
beating myself up the way Iused to.
I drink a lot more water anddrink filtered water.
You know I eat a lot morevegetables and a lot more fruits
.
And just you, and just if youlook at what I ate in my
lifestyle before and you look atit today, you wouldn't know I
was the same person and that hasled to incredible change.
(07:35):
And the thing I realized and thereason I put together the Art
of Bending Time was I realizedthat these changes didn't just
impact my health.
They have reversed damage to myliver.
They have caused me to havenormal blood labs that a lot of
(07:55):
people, even with this drug,don't reach.
That I've not only gotten inthe normal range, I'm in the
bottom part of the normal rangeon these things that they're
testing for.
So a lot of these things areworking better than I was told
they would work, but they'realso all these other things Like
I had had brain fog and didn'treally realize where that was
(08:19):
coming from.
I had had, you know it.
Really like I, like I said I'dbeen through this point of
really bad burnout and I hit apoint where I was like I feel
really good.
I was like, first of all,physically, as far as comfort in
my body and just feeling likehow I felt.
I felt more like I was in myearly 20s and I'm almost.
(08:41):
I was diagnosed at almost 50.
I'm 60 now.
So for me to be like.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
you know, I look amazing, you do not look.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Well, thank you, thank you, but I am, my 60th
birthday will be November 2nd,so you know.
So, basically, I all this stuffI was like this is amazing.
I feel good, I feel focused,I'm getting tons more work done,
I'm more organized, I'm moreengaged, I like I care again.
(09:13):
You know what I mean.
Like all that stuff that isburnout.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
It's like a blessing.
You're beautiful, you'rechanged, you feel good.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
And it didn't exist anymore and I was like this is
amazing, like I'm back.
And then I kind of sat back andI said, okay, if I want to do
something to try to help peopleand I did actually do a program
for lawyers that's being soldthrough a CLE course company up
in New York and it's calledLawyers Thrive and Be Alive.
(09:40):
I have it on my website andpeople can buy it from me, but
you don't get CLE credit from me.
This other company has it withcredits and they get great
reviews.
And so I did that for a littlewhile and you know it's still
out there, they're still sellingit and they're still asking me
for more content.
And you know I thought about itand I was like I don't want to
(10:00):
limit what I'm offering topeople who are just lawyers,
because it's not really justabout the lifestyle of lawyers,
although they're kind of posterchildren for a terrible
lifestyle sometimes.
Really any busy professionalcan be in this place.
It happens in medical.
I have friends who are doctorsand nurses who have gone through
(10:21):
the same kind of burnout andyou know it happens to lots of
us.
So what I did was I looked backat myself at the time that I
didn't yet know that I wasfeeling burned out or that
anything was going on with mephysically and kind of said who
was I then?
What did I think was going onthen?
(10:42):
And I realized I went through aperiod where I was extremely
unfocused, I wasn't able to getstuff done, and it got bad
enough that I bought a timemanagement course because I
thought that was my problem.
So that's why the Art ofBending Time, the Art of Bending
Time is about time management.
(11:04):
In a way, it gives you a way toreally be effective at making
the time that you have really,really impactful.
But it also it does that bymaking you healthier and by
making you more focused and moreable to be in the like, in a
flow state, because in a flowstate you get more done, you do,
(11:28):
and it helps you to have, youknow, have goals and have goals
that align with who you are andyou know to be aware of what
lights you up and what makes youhappy, so you're not getting
burned out by what you're doing.
I think, it's and it it that allcame out of this.
Like you know, what I honestlysay is like the greatest
blessing of getting thishorrible autoimmune disease,
(11:53):
because if I hadn't had thathappen, I never would have
changed.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
But that's why individuals like yourself, like
you, asked why you know whenpeople are like on this podcast.
You are an exact conversation,asked why you know when people
are like on this podcast.
You are an exact conversationof why you know you're changing
the way you think about yourhealth because this impacted the
way you know you didn't want 10years of your life.
You want 50 or more years.
You know like you thought aboutit.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
I was like I'm going to be 120.
Right, I don't want totransplant.
I don't look 60 because I'm 30now when you have, when you're
able to be healthy live likeyou're being healthy and have
focus and have energy and havedrive and have things you're
(12:50):
excited about.
It makes everything different.
You know you see too manypeople, I think, who are like
they hit 50 or so and they'relike is this all there is, you
know, and and it's sad, but itdoesn't have to be that way and
we can choose to change thatanytime we want.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
I think this is such an important point of view.
You changed your health, youchanged the way you thought and
you literally changed your body.
What did some doctors say toyou, or people say to you now,
now that things have changed,has there been any?
I mean, I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Well, the doctors so I still see the same doctor, the
same hepatologist that I'veseen in the past and I adore her
.
She's wonderful, she's fromBrazil.
She wasn't trained in oursystem.
She did her residency at MayoClinic in Rochester, but she was
.
She's got that Latin Americanmindset where she's more willing
(13:49):
to be accepting of things likenutrition.
And you know, what Americandoctor would have allowed me to
get my blood tested every monthfor six months before they said,
okay, maybe you should take thedrug, you know?
And?
And when I told her I wanted totry to deal with it
nutritionally first, herresponse was I'm not optimistic,
(14:10):
you're going to be able to dothat, but if you do, I'll
publish.
So you know she wasn't about a.
There was a clinical study theywere doing at the University of
Alberta that was all aboutlifestyle and I did that
(14:34):
clinical study and the thingthat was funny was I realized
like I was already doing thisstuff.
They were telling people to do,to do, and it was mostly a lot
of you know.
To some degree it was cognitivebehavioral therapy approaches
to help reduce stress and tohelp kind of change how you were
looking at the world.
(14:54):
It was gentle exercise and, youknow, making sure to move your
body frequently.
And you know, I'm sure I it'sfunny because I was never.
I wasn't specifically taughtthis in my health coaching
certification, but I alwaysfound this like now I tell
people this and they're like, ohmy God, you're right.
You know, I realized like whenI was in school we didn't really
(15:18):
learn much about the lymphsystem, except that it exists
and, um, it takes the garbageout of our system.
Like how do we not get told?
How are we not told about thesystem that basically takes out
the trash and doesn't workunless you move your body to
make it work?
(15:38):
Think about it, and I tellpeople this all the time.
I'm like you want a reason toget up out of your chair and
move around every hour or so.
You want a reason to get up outof your chair and move around
every hour or so.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Consider the fact that, literally, your cells are
like bathing in their own wasteuntil you move your body and
your lymph system takes it away,yeah, and getting a nice, you
know, getting nice massages, thesaunas, like get clearing out
and literally that is one of thedetox moment.
You know parts of it, yeah, andI think that people there's a
lot of that missing in that theyjust want to take the pill
(16:15):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
And you know, I was just.
I just saw this.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Sedentary lifestyle really can kill you.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yeah, and it's funny when I was in high school I
lived in Minnesota and therewere a lot of Swedish people
there and I knew a lot of kidsin high school whose families
had saunas in their houses andthey would take a sauna and then
go out and roll in the snowlike in the winter, which was
nuts it sounds nuts, but it'sbasically the same as doing a
(16:43):
cold plunge, right?
So you're, you're, you'resweating out the toxic stuff and
then you're jumping into thesnow and rolling around and you
like go back and cycle back andforth doing that for a while and
you feel so good afterwards.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
That's I mean I can see.
I can see, like that, where itcould you know?
And then it's like closing offto clean out.
So, cleaned out, yeah, yeah, itmakes sense.
It makes sense now that youknow you're looking into it.
But I think you're right thathaving the conversation about
the lymphatic system andcleaning out the system, yeah, I
don't think I mean in on amedical side.
I would tell you we talkedabout the lymphatic system,
(17:15):
right, and we talked about itvery generic of yes, it's going
to, you know, release and theway it flows and shows you how
it, you know how the directionof it.
But I don't think we really gointo why it's the always the
importance of it and it's alwaysit's kind of and it's yeah,
it's quickly and and as somebodywho's not a doctor, all you
learn is basically it exists,yeah, there are these things
(17:37):
called lymph nodes right yeahand, and I mean you know, an
immune kind of response.
But yeah, it doesn't really.
I mean, if you're not reallyinto it, yeah, how would you
know?
Speaker 2 (17:46):
you know, and if you go through traditional cancer
treatment, they cut out thelymph nodes For real.
They do, yeah, sometimes.
So my ex had testicular cancerand he had a surgery where to
prevent the cancer from jumping.
They had learned that the modeof transmission and I know there
are some kinds of breast cancerthat are like this too the mode
(18:09):
of transmission and I knowthere are some kinds of breast
cancer that are like this toothe mode of transmission is
through the lymph nodes.
So they will remove the likethe system of lymph nodes that
are tied to the part that hascancer which you know.
When you think about it foralternative practitioners
they're like you took the lymphnodes you know because you're
(18:29):
removing.
Now you're removing that wholesection, like you're taking that
whole part out to prevent thecancer cells from moving.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Right, and you're.
So it is like it's this catch22 of like not even catch, I
don't even know what the word.
You're pretty much you'retrying to get rid of the junk,
but you've removed the thing toget rid of the junk because the
amount of time you know to, yeah, it's complex.
Right, it really is.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
It really is.
Yeah, I know so anyway, whatthis turned into, that I teach
people about now.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Now you made it a business, right?
You made this your own, or isthis your?
This is my business.
Now I'm no longer doing law,your passion.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, I wound out of my last case.
I made the decision in about2019 to stop practicing law and
I I stopped accepting cases andI just allowed the cases to go
through their you know theirprocess and end as they ended.
And the last one, which Ijokingly referred to as the case
from hell that will not go away, ended last summer, and you
(19:36):
know the 2004 in the summer, andsince then I've been doing this
full time.
So I work with people who aretypically people who are 35 to
55, roughly busy professionalswho've hit that, you know.
They've hit a point wherethey've been promoted up to a
level where they feel likethey're giving up their lives to
(19:57):
their jobs a lot of times andthey don't know what to do.
They don't know how to get whatthey want at home and at work
and still be able to function,and some of them are, you know,
a lot of times.
It's not that they feel sick,but when we get into that
(20:18):
health-related stuff, all ofthem have issues that way,
because what happens is that'spart of it.
You know it's it's you startfeeling that way because of the
fact that you're not living ahealthy lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
And their body's going to take a toll from.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Right, and a lot of times it's people who think that
they're you know they're goingto the gym every day and they're
working, and they're runningfor an hour on a treadmill and
they're lifting weights andthey're you know, they're doing
the things that they've beentaught are the things they
should be doing.
The things that they've beentaught are the things they
should be doing.
But you know they're also likethey're never letting up and
(20:58):
they're they're not necessarilydoing the more gentle stuff that
you need to and they're not.
You know there's there's a lotthey're doing that isn't helpful
.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
I can imagine yeah, the cortisol is out of whack
completely.
Yeah, the cortisol's are out ofwhack completely, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
On another note, so I'm one appreciative of you
being on the show, but two likeI'd like to know is there a
little antidotal or fun factthat people don't know about you
?
Some people know this, but mostpeople out there in the world
of you know this world thatwe're in, don't?
(21:31):
I left my ex and took the boatand I lived on a boat for eight
years.
Oh, like, live on a boat yeah,like for, and it was super cool.
I loved it.
But I got off the boat when Iwas dealing.
I was diagnosed with this liverthing while I was living on the
boat and, frankly, part of thereason I chose to get off the
boat was because I realized ithad mold and it had.
(21:55):
You know, I was constantlybeing exposed to engine.
You know there's chemicals,there's all this stuff and I was
like I don't know how much ofthat is affecting me.
Yeah, but I made the decisionto leave that lifestyle in part
because I was like I need tolook at this and make sure I'm
not exposing myself to things Ishouldn't you know, yeah, yeah,
(22:22):
just your environment, puttingyourself in a better, a better
state so that you can heal whichobviously is a good decision,
yeah.
And then Irma took the boat, sothen the boat went away, which
was very sad for me well, youcan always go on cruises when
you when you want to, once in awhile yeah, it's not the same.
It's not the same.
But I I do have to say, when Iwas in Turkey, my friend that I
was there with and I rented aboat for the day and it was
(22:44):
wonderful and you know, just toget out on the water and drop an
anchor and go paddle boardingand you know, that's my happy
place.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
That's really beautiful, yeah, so how can
those reach you?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Okay.
So what I recommend to peoplein the States especially and I
think this works in Canada,works in Canada, it might work
in Mexico is to text the wordclarity to 33777.
The other option will be onyour show notes, which is a link
to the same exact place.
(23:20):
It'll give you a sign up to afree community and in that
community I have somedownloadable resources that are
really helpful.
The first thing I do with any ofmy clients when I work with
them is to help them findclarity on what lights them up,
and there's a guided meditationin there and some journaling
prompts to help people figurethat out.
(23:40):
So then they can startproactively working to get that
in their lives, and that's oneof the things that I've found is
really really helpful aboutavoiding burnout is knowing,
like learning.
Not about big things, not aboutI'm going to go on a safari or
I'm going to do this or thatthis.
You know these big, big tripsor goals to buy a house or
(24:02):
whatever, but those littlethings that light you up, that
give you joy in the everydaymoments, in your work and in
your personal life and, like inall of your life, making a
proactive choice to live yourlife in a way that you get those
things, and so when you'regetting those things it's like
fuel.
That kind of helps just keepyou feeling good throughout your
(24:24):
day.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
I think we need to pause on that.
That's beautifully said.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, I call it sparks that light you up, so you
know you find those sparks andyou keep those sparks going and
that that helps you to have likejust fuel to get through your
day and not to feel takenadvantage of or whatever that
makes you feel burned out takenadvantage of or whatever that
(24:52):
makes you feel burned out.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
I, I, I thank you for being on, cause I think that
there's someone here listeningto like right now they're
burnout and they're tired andthey're probably an overachiever
of some manner, where they'reor they're at the top of their
game, or they're on, not at thetop of their game, and they're
going Maya is something going on, and they need to kind of hear.
You know, you're a six year old, which I don't even want to say
that it's like you're beautiful.
(25:17):
You've taken and changed yourperspective.
Your life is different and yourhealth is different, and I
think that's amazing and Icongratulate you on that.
And I think that you know, then, you've taken this to then help
others on it, so it's awesome.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
So I appreciate it.
Well, thank you.
Yeah, it warms my heart.
You know what I mean.
It's the kind of thing I'm nowdoing, something that I truly
feel like I'm getting.
I'm helping people in a waythat makes me feel really good,
and you know, that's what it'sabout, right.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
I love it.
I love it, so thank you so muchfor being on the show.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
And I just wanted to verify again it's 3337 or 333?
No, 33777.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Okay, so 33777,.
Text that for more information.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
And text the word clarity to that, so that's like
the phone number you're textingtoo.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Perfect.
All right, I'll have that inthe show notes too.
So thank you guys for being on.
Well, thank you, it's nicemeeting you.
No-transcript.
Hi, how are you?
This is Dr Damaris MurrayGrossman and this is the
Mindfully Integrated Show.
And today we have an amazingguest, michelle, who's going to
tell you about her art ofbending time and art of bending,
and she's a lawyer and alsohealth advocate for those and
for herself, and she wants tokind of tell her story and how
she kind of came to, why she iswhere she is now and why her
(00:22):
perspective on health isdifferent than maybe your
perspective is and how we canmake change.
So it's a great pleasure tomeet you and I really am looking
forward to hearing more aboutyou.
We talked a little bit about itbefore the show, but I want
people to know you and how's itgoing.
How are you, michelle?
And I wanted to make sure is itNeimeyer?
It's.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Neimeyer like Neiman Marcus, but it's pronounced
correctly.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Wonderful, so thanks for being on.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Well, thank you, and you know, as I told you, I was
so excited to talk to somebodywho's about integrative medicine
, because that's really what ledme down the path to getting to
creating this program that Icall the Art of Bending Time
getting to creating this programthat I call the Art of Bending
Time.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
I love the name, but you know you have a reasons for
why.
I mean, I don't know what youknow would like to discuss with
the audience and you know whatyou'd like to share.
But you know one, how did youget to this point?
And then, two, you know what isyour?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
no-transcript.
I lost 35 pounds.
I was exercising, doing HIITworkouts, taking shakes that
were protein, primarily proteinand they have a shake called
Shakeology that has a bunch ofstuff in it probiotics and
prebiotics and some varioussupplements and I felt really
(02:11):
good.
I had about a year of thatwhere I was like I'm doing great
and then I had a UTI and I hada blood test and the blood test
came back with these very, veryelevated liver enzymes and that
turned into what I'm sure a lotof people that you talk to have
(02:34):
experienced, where it's like ohmy God, this is very scary and
I'm just a primary care doctor.
I don't know anything aboutthis.
You need to go see thisspecialist.
So I went and I saw agastroenterologist who tried to
tell me that I had somethingthey call overlap syndrome,
which is really, really bad.
I did not have that and I wentto a hepatologist who ultimately
(03:00):
got me to my current doctor,who's really exceptional, and
what I have is called primarybiliary cholangitis PBC.
It's a very rare autoimmunedisease and I've had enough
experience with people I knowhaving autoimmunity and I had
had some experience in my lawpractice.
(03:23):
I had early on in my lawpractice I represented insurance
companies in the coverage casesthat had to do with breast
implants, where early I don'tknow if you even remember this,
but in the nineties there were alot of lawsuits because women
were saying that silicone breastimplants were causing them to
get fibromyalgia and, you know,lupus and all kinds of
(03:47):
autoimmune diseases.
So I had learned a lot aboutthat and kind of the.
You know the general concept ofthat you've got a genetic
predisposition and that there'ssomething that would trigger the
disease and that you know andthat you know and I also knew
that traditional, standard MDkind of medicine didn't always
(04:07):
give you answers.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
It didn't always give you Right, they were.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
you know, the full info that you get is we don't
know what causes this, there'sno cure and we hope that you
know.
By taking this drug we canminimize the symptoms which in
my case would, if left unchecked, lead to liver failure.
And you know, getting this wasreally scary because it was like
(04:35):
I was seeing things online like10-year lifespan and liver
transplants and you know thatkind of thing liver transplants
and you know that kind of thingCrazy Like.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I mean it's an intense, you know disorder and
it's like something that no oneI mean it's like you said it's
where I hadn't heard of itmyself and the fact that you
were able to find treatment andfind something outside of the
average, you know whateverthey're, you know, like I said,
the liver treatment and 10 yearsFirst, what made you look into
further things?
Obviously it's for your health,but how did you come about to
there, to you know, to whereyou're at now?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Right.
Well, part of it was that I Ihad a friend who was a
naturopath and he practiced inCalifornia.
He owned a home.
He had grown up in Miami whereI live, and owned a home in
Florida.
He had grown up in Miami, whereI live, and owned a home in
Florida and you know I knewbecause I had talked to him
about this he had written a bookabout curing cancer with
nutrition and he had also donehe was actually Montel Williams'
(05:38):
doctor for his MS.
So he had done a lot of, youknow, treating people with
autoimmunity.
And so the first call I madewas to him to say listen, like
should I be doing anything?
And you know he advised me todo some various things.
We looked at my whole history,like you know, really deep on
(06:02):
what did you used to eat whenyou were a kid and what do you
eat now and what was your healthhistory as a kid.
And I now understand havingbecome certified as a health
coach, you know we were lookingat timelines to find things like
did I have antibiotics?
I had so many antibiotics as akid Like I was the kid who
always had an ear infection andalways had strep and always had,
(06:23):
you know, and it was constantantibiotics.
My body probably has no, had nomicrobiome, except the bad
stuff that came back and came inlater, you know.
So I I learned a lot about thatkind of stuff and then I
started making big changes.
I went raw foods for a while.
I then went through a kind oflike a Whole30 type of
(06:48):
elimination diet.
There's a doctor out therenamed Amy Myers.
I followed her protocol, learnedI had a very bad problem with
gluten, you know and over timesort of found my own groove with
a different kind of exercise.
I'm not nearly as hard on mybody anymore as far as exercise
goes.
I walk a lot, I stretch, I dovarious things, but I'm not like
(07:12):
beating myself up the way Iused to.
I drink a lot more water anddrink filtered water.
You know I eat a lot morevegetables and a lot more fruits
.
And just you, and just if youlook at what I ate in my
lifestyle before and you look atit today, you wouldn't know I
was the same person and that hasled to incredible change.
(07:35):
And the thing I realized and thereason I put together the Art
of Bending Time was I realizedthat these changes didn't just
impact my health.
They have reversed damage to myliver.
They have caused me to havenormal blood labs that a lot of
(07:55):
people, even with this drug,don't reach.
That I've not only gotten inthe normal range, I'm in the
bottom part of the normal rangeon these things that they're
testing for.
So a lot of these things areworking better than I was told
they would work, but they'realso all these other things Like
I had had brain fog and didn'treally realize where that was
(08:19):
coming from.
I had had, you know it.
Really like I, like I said I'dbeen through this point of
really bad burnout and I hit apoint where I was like I feel
really good.
I was like, first of all,physically, as far as comfort in
my body and just feeling likehow I felt.
I felt more like I was in myearly 20s and I'm almost.
(08:41):
I was diagnosed at almost 50.
I'm 60 now.
So for me to be like.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
you know, I look amazing, you do not look.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Well, thank you, thank you, but I am, my 60th
birthday will be November 2nd,so you know.
So, basically, I all this stuffI was like this is amazing.
I feel good, I feel focused,I'm getting tons more work done,
I'm more organized, I'm moreengaged, I like I care again.
(09:13):
You know what I mean.
Like all that stuff that isburnout.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
It's like a blessing.
You're beautiful, you'rechanged, you feel good.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
And it didn't exist anymore and I was like this is
amazing, like I'm back.
And then I kind of sat back andI said, okay, if I want to do
something to try to help peopleand I did actually do a program
for lawyers that's being soldthrough a CLE course company up
in New York and it's calledLawyers Thrive and Be Alive.
(09:40):
I have it on my website andpeople can buy it from me, but
you don't get CLE credit from me.
This other company has it withcredits and they get great
reviews.
And so I did that for a littlewhile and you know it's still
out there, they're still sellingit and they're still asking me
for more content.
And you know I thought about itand I was like I don't want to
(10:00):
limit what I'm offering topeople who are just lawyers,
because it's not really justabout the lifestyle of lawyers,
although they're kind of posterchildren for a terrible
lifestyle sometimes.
Really any busy professionalcan be in this place.
It happens in medical.
I have friends who are doctorsand nurses who have gone through
(10:21):
the same kind of burnout andyou know it happens to lots of
us.
So what I did was I looked backat myself at the time that I
didn't yet know that I wasfeeling burned out or that
anything was going on with mephysically and kind of said who
was I then?
What did I think was going onthen?
(10:42):
And I realized I went through aperiod where I was extremely
unfocused, I wasn't able to getstuff done, and it got bad
enough that I bought a timemanagement course because I
thought that was my problem.
So that's why the Art ofBending Time, the Art of Bending
Time is about time management.
(11:04):
In a way, it gives you a way toreally be effective at making
the time that you have really,really impactful.
But it also it does that bymaking you healthier and by
making you more focused and moreable to be in the like, in a
flow state, because in a flowstate you get more done, you do,
(11:28):
and it helps you to have, youknow, have goals and have goals
that align with who you are andyou know to be aware of what
lights you up and what makes youhappy, so you're not getting
burned out by what you're doing.
I think, it's and it it that allcame out of this.
Like you know, what I honestlysay is like the greatest
blessing of getting thishorrible autoimmune disease,
(11:53):
because if I hadn't had thathappen, I never would have
changed.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
But that's why individuals like yourself, like
you, asked why you know whenpeople are like on this podcast.
You are an exact conversation,asked why you know when people
are like on this podcast.
You are an exact conversationof why you know you're changing
the way you think about yourhealth because this impacted the
way you know you didn't want 10years of your life.
You want 50 or more years.
You know like you thought aboutit.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
I was like I'm going to be 120.
Right, I don't want totransplant.
I don't look 60 because I'm 30now when you have, when you're
able to be healthy live likeyou're being healthy and have
focus and have energy and havedrive and have things you're
(12:50):
excited about.
It makes everything different.
You know you see too manypeople, I think, who are like
they hit 50 or so and they'relike is this all there is, you
know, and and it's sad, but itdoesn't have to be that way and
we can choose to change thatanytime we want.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
I think this is such an important point of view.
You changed your health, youchanged the way you thought and
you literally changed your body.
What did some doctors say toyou, or people say to you now,
now that things have changed,has there been any?
I mean, I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Well, the doctors so I still see the same doctor, the
same hepatologist that I'veseen in the past and I adore her
.
She's wonderful, she's fromBrazil.
She wasn't trained in oursystem.
She did her residency at MayoClinic in Rochester, but she was
.
She's got that Latin Americanmindset where she's more willing
(13:49):
to be accepting of things likenutrition.
And you know, what Americandoctor would have allowed me to
get my blood tested every monthfor six months before they said,
okay, maybe you should take thedrug, you know?
And?
And when I told her I wanted totry to deal with it
nutritionally first, herresponse was I'm not optimistic,
(14:10):
you're going to be able to dothat, but if you do, I'll
publish.
So you know she wasn't about a.
There was a clinical study theywere doing at the University of
Alberta that was all aboutlifestyle and I did that
(14:34):
clinical study and the thingthat was funny was I realized
like I was already doing thisstuff.
They were telling people to do,to do, and it was mostly a lot
of you know.
To some degree it was cognitivebehavioral therapy approaches
to help reduce stress and tohelp kind of change how you were
looking at the world.
(14:54):
It was gentle exercise and, youknow, making sure to move your
body frequently.
And you know, I'm sure I it'sfunny because I was never.
I wasn't specifically taughtthis in my health coaching
certification, but I alwaysfound this like now I tell
people this and they're like, ohmy God, you're right.
You know, I realized like whenI was in school we didn't really
(15:18):
learn much about the lymphsystem, except that it exists
and, um, it takes the garbageout of our system.
Like how do we not get told?
How are we not told about thesystem that basically takes out
the trash and doesn't workunless you move your body to
make it work?
(15:38):
Think about it, and I tellpeople this all the time.
I'm like you want a reason toget up out of your chair and
move around every hour or so.
You want a reason to get up outof your chair and move around
every hour or so.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Consider the fact that, literally, your cells are
like bathing in their own wasteuntil you move your body and
your lymph system takes it away,yeah, and getting a nice, you
know, getting nice massages, thesaunas, like get clearing out
and literally that is one of thedetox moment.
You know parts of it, yeah, andI think that people there's a
lot of that missing in that theyjust want to take the pill
(16:15):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
And you know, I was just.
I just saw this.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Sedentary lifestyle really can kill you.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yeah, and it's funny when I was in high school I
lived in Minnesota and therewere a lot of Swedish people
there and I knew a lot of kidsin high school whose families
had saunas in their houses andthey would take a sauna and then
go out and roll in the snowlike in the winter, which was
nuts it sounds nuts, but it'sbasically the same as doing a
(16:43):
cold plunge, right?
So you're, you're, you'resweating out the toxic stuff and
then you're jumping into thesnow and rolling around and you
like go back and cycle back andforth doing that for a while and
you feel so good afterwards.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
That's I mean I can see.
I can see, like that, where itcould you know?
And then it's like closing offto clean out.
So, cleaned out, yeah, yeah, itmakes sense.
It makes sense now that youknow you're looking into it.
But I think you're right thathaving the conversation about
the lymphatic system andcleaning out the system, yeah, I
don't think I mean in on amedical side.
I would tell you we talkedabout the lymphatic system,
(17:15):
right, and we talked about itvery generic of yes, it's going
to, you know, release and theway it flows and shows you how
it, you know how the directionof it.
But I don't think we really gointo why it's the always the
importance of it and it's alwaysit's kind of and it's yeah,
it's quickly and and as somebodywho's not a doctor, all you
learn is basically it exists,yeah, there are these things
(17:37):
called lymph nodes right yeahand, and I mean you know, an
immune kind of response.
But yeah, it doesn't really.
I mean, if you're not reallyinto it, yeah, how would you
know?
Speaker 2 (17:46):
you know, and if you go through traditional cancer
treatment, they cut out thelymph nodes For real.
They do, yeah, sometimes.
So my ex had testicular cancerand he had a surgery where to
prevent the cancer from jumping.
They had learned that the modeof transmission and I know there
are some kinds of breast cancerthat are like this too the mode
(18:09):
of transmission and I knowthere are some kinds of breast
cancer that are like this toothe mode of transmission is
through the lymph nodes.
So they will remove the likethe system of lymph nodes that
are tied to the part that hascancer which you know.
When you think about it foralternative practitioners
they're like you took the lymphnodes you know because you're
(18:29):
removing.
Now you're removing that wholesection, like you're taking that
whole part out to prevent thecancer cells from moving.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Right, and you're.
So it is like it's this catch22 of like not even catch, I
don't even know what the word.
You're pretty much you'retrying to get rid of the junk,
but you've removed the thing toget rid of the junk because the
amount of time you know to, yeah, it's complex.
Right, it really is.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
It really is.
Yeah, I know so anyway, whatthis turned into, that I teach
people about now.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Now you made it a business, right?
You made this your own, or isthis your?
This is my business.
Now I'm no longer doing law,your passion.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, I wound out of my last case.
I made the decision in about2019 to stop practicing law and
I I stopped accepting cases andI just allowed the cases to go
through their you know theirprocess and end as they ended.
And the last one, which Ijokingly referred to as the case
from hell that will not go away, ended last summer, and you
(19:36):
know the 2004 in the summer, andsince then I've been doing this
full time.
So I work with people who aretypically people who are 35 to
55, roughly busy professionalswho've hit that, you know.
They've hit a point wherethey've been promoted up to a
level where they feel likethey're giving up their lives to
(19:57):
their jobs a lot of times andthey don't know what to do.
They don't know how to get whatthey want at home and at work
and still be able to function,and some of them are, you know,
a lot of times.
It's not that they feel sick,but when we get into that
(20:18):
health-related stuff, all ofthem have issues that way,
because what happens is that'spart of it.
You know it's it's you startfeeling that way because of the
fact that you're not living ahealthy lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
And their body's going to take a toll from.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Right, and a lot of times it's people who think that
they're you know they're goingto the gym every day and they're
working, and they're runningfor an hour on a treadmill and
they're lifting weights andthey're you know, they're doing
the things that they've beentaught are the things they
should be doing.
The things that they've beentaught are the things they
should be doing.
But you know they're also likethey're never letting up and
(20:58):
they're they're not necessarilydoing the more gentle stuff that
you need to and they're not.
You know there's there's a lotthey're doing that isn't helpful
.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
I can imagine yeah, the cortisol is out of whack
completely.
Yeah, the cortisol's are out ofwhack completely, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
On another note, so I'm one appreciative of you
being on the show, but two likeI'd like to know is there a
little antidotal or fun factthat people don't know about you
?
Some people know this, but mostpeople out there in the world
of you know this world thatwe're in, don't?
(21:31):
I left my ex and took the boatand I lived on a boat for eight
years.
Oh, like, live on a boat yeah,like for, and it was super cool.
I loved it.
But I got off the boat when Iwas dealing.
I was diagnosed with this liverthing while I was living on the
boat and, frankly, part of thereason I chose to get off the
boat was because I realized ithad mold and it had.
(21:55):
You know, I was constantlybeing exposed to engine.
You know there's chemicals,there's all this stuff and I was
like I don't know how much ofthat is affecting me.
Yeah, but I made the decisionto leave that lifestyle in part
because I was like I need tolook at this and make sure I'm
not exposing myself to things Ishouldn't you know, yeah, yeah,
(22:22):
just your environment, puttingyourself in a better, a better
state so that you can heal whichobviously is a good decision,
yeah.
And then Irma took the boat, sothen the boat went away, which
was very sad for me well, youcan always go on cruises when
you when you want to, once in awhile yeah, it's not the same.
It's not the same.
But I I do have to say, when Iwas in Turkey, my friend that I
was there with and I rented aboat for the day and it was
(22:44):
wonderful and you know, just toget out on the water and drop an
anchor and go paddle boardingand you know, that's my happy
place.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
That's really beautiful, yeah, so how can
those reach you?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Okay.
So what I recommend to peoplein the States especially and I
think this works in Canada,works in Canada, it might work
in Mexico is to text the wordclarity to 33777.
The other option will be onyour show notes, which is a link
to the same exact place.
(23:20):
It'll give you a sign up to afree community and in that
community I have somedownloadable resources that are
really helpful.
The first thing I do with any ofmy clients when I work with
them is to help them findclarity on what lights them up,
and there's a guided meditationin there and some journaling
prompts to help people figurethat out.
(23:40):
So then they can startproactively working to get that
in their lives, and that's oneof the things that I've found is
really really helpful aboutavoiding burnout is knowing,
like learning.
Not about big things, not aboutI'm going to go on a safari or
I'm going to do this or thatthis.
You know these big, big tripsor goals to buy a house or
(24:02):
whatever, but those littlethings that light you up, that
give you joy in the everydaymoments, in your work and in
your personal life and, like inall of your life, making a
proactive choice to live yourlife in a way that you get those
things, and so when you'regetting those things it's like
fuel.
That kind of helps just keepyou feeling good throughout your
(24:24):
day.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
I think we need to pause on that.
That's beautifully said.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, I call it sparks that light you up, so you
know you find those sparks andyou keep those sparks going and
that that helps you to have likejust fuel to get through your
day and not to feel takenadvantage of or whatever that
makes you feel burned out takenadvantage of or whatever that
(24:52):
makes you feel burned out.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
I, I, I thank you for being on, cause I think that
there's someone here listeningto like right now they're
burnout and they're tired andthey're probably an overachiever
of some manner, where they'reor they're at the top of their
game, or they're on, not at thetop of their game, and they're
going Maya is something going on, and they need to kind of hear.
You know, you're a six year old, which I don't even want to say
that it's like you're beautiful.
(25:17):
You've taken and changed yourperspective.
Your life is different and yourhealth is different, and I
think that's amazing and Icongratulate you on that.
And I think that you know, then, you've taken this to then help
others on it, so it's awesome.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
So I appreciate it.
Well, thank you.
Yeah, it warms my heart.
You know what I mean.
It's the kind of thing I'm nowdoing, something that I truly
feel like I'm getting.
I'm helping people in a waythat makes me feel really good,
and you know, that's what it'sabout, right.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
I love it.
I love it, so thank you so muchfor being on the show.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
And I just wanted to verify again it's 3337 or 333?
No, 33777.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Okay, so 33777,.
Text that for more information.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
And text the word clarity to that, so that's like
the phone number you're textingtoo.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Perfect.
All right, I'll have that inthe show notes too.
So thank you guys for being on.
Well, thank you, it's nicemeeting you.
No-transcript.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com