August 4, 2025 • 48 mins
In this episode of Mindfully Masculine, Charles and Dan continue their exploration of The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins, turning a critical eye toward two major ideas: fairness and comparison.
First, they take on the statement “life isn’t fair”—not to reject it outright, but to unpack its usefulness. Is declaring unfairness a helpful truth, or a dead-end framing? The conversation pushes beyond the cliché to explore what men are actually supposed to do with that idea.
Then, they dive into the difference between comparison that inspires and comparison that corrodes. Drawing from their own experiences, Charles and Dan discuss how jealousy can reveal what you value—and how to use that information for growth, not shame.
Listeners will walk away with a clearer sense of how to redirect energy from external frustration to internal clarity—while staying grounded in reality, not just motivational slogans.
If you’ve ever struggled with feeling behind, envious, or like effort doesn’t matter because “life’s just unfair,” this episode offers a more honest, masculine path forward.
Find all episodes and more at mindfullymasculine.com.
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Episode Transcript
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Charles (00:00):
It's not my job to say Mel Robbins did her daughter
dirty, but it kind of is my jobto say that, because I would not
appreciate being talked aboutthe way that she talks about her
oldest daughter.
Welcome to the MindfullyMasculine Podcast.
This is Charles.
In this episode, we arechallenging some of the more
popular ideas from chapters 9and 10 of the Let them Theory by
(00:21):
Mel Robbins.
Dan and I will take on herclaim that life isn't fair and
make a case for why she getsthat wrong.
We also push back against her30-second rule, arguing that
real change takes more than aquick decision.
It takes consistent effort overtime.
And we wrap up the conversationabout learning to love the
process, not just chasing theresult.
Check out our websitemindfullymasculinecom for all of
(00:44):
our episodes, audio video,anything else we want to share
and enjoy.
Dan (00:51):
Good morning Charles.
How are you?
Charles (00:52):
Hey Dan Good, how are you?
Dan (00:54):
I am doing well.
Charles (00:55):
Any new adventures to talk about?
Dan (00:57):
No, nothing, nothing at all .
Charles (00:59):
Nothing happened at all this morning, so yeah, this
morning I got here and we wereall.
We were both locked out of yourhouse.
Dan (01:06):
Thanks to me, because I ignored lots of beeping from my
front door lock for many monthsnow.
Charles (01:13):
Yeah, the lock was definitely smarter than the
owner.
Dan (01:16):
In this case, absolutely, and the owner had his sprinkling
system replaced.
So, of course, the secretoutdoor key that I hide in my
fake sprinkler head was nowhereto be found.
Where do we think?
Charles (01:28):
that is Probably just in the dumpster.
Dan (01:30):
Oh yeah, from the system, or best case scenario my, my, my
old sprinkler guys have it.
Charles (01:36):
Oh, maybe, yeah, yeah, and I didn't have my lock
picking kit which uh that, uh alot of good it did me this
morning.
It was a little bit of a blow.
Why do I not just keep that inmy car at all times?
It makes no sense.
Dan (01:49):
Yeah.
Charles (01:50):
What good is it doing to me in my house?
None, yep, so I'm going to haveto.
Dan (01:53):
You've got the keys to your house.
You never need to break inthere.
Charles (02:00):
Actually, no, I'd be called AAA as well.
Oh my God, yeah, so AAA cameout.
Let us back in.
Dan (02:06):
So something I didn't realize AAA does not just open
cars.
Cars, yeah, so they contact alocksmith and they will credit
your account as if it was a car,basically, I guess.
So I had a $50 voucher kind offor my AAA membership for
unlocking a car.
So I had a $50 voucher kind offor my AAA membership for
unlocking a car.
(02:27):
They credited that towards thecost of opening the front door,
which apparently is cheaper thantrying to re-engineer a new key
.
Charles (02:33):
That doesn't surprise me.
On a newer car with theelectronic, newer.
Dan (02:37):
Transponder 2014.
I mean, I guess for you it's anewer car, Absolutely.
Charles (02:41):
Why I have a 2011.
Yeah, it's a newer car.
Absolutely why I have a 2011.
Yeah, I think 2011 might be thethe newest car I've ever had,
because my my yaris was also a2011 and every car I've had
since then has been older than2011.
Wow, I don't think I've owned acar newer than 2011 and the new
cars treating you well.
Dan (02:57):
The honda, yes yeah, it's nice.
Charles (02:59):
yeah had to buy new tires for it like right after I
bought it and, uh, those weresomewhat expensive but I got
them at Walmart and I got a tie,a kind of tire at Walmart that
they assured me like everyWalmart carries, and I got the
road hazard warranty.
So they're like if you everhave a flat, if you ever have a
problem, you pretty much justget towed to the closest Walmart
(03:20):
and we'll be able to replace itwith the same nice make and
model.
Dan (03:23):
Yeah, and.
Charles (03:23):
I already mart and we'll be able to replace it with
the same nice make and model.
Yeah, and I already had to takeit to them.
I I ran over two screws, likewithin a couple weeks of getting
the new tire, of course, andthey were both like right in the
bottom middle of it and theywere going to plug both of them.
So I didn't have to becausethey they do charge you.
Even when you get the roadhazard warranty if you have to
replace a tire, they stillcharge you the installation and
balancing, oh oh.
But to repair was completelyfree.
(03:44):
I didn't have to pay anythingfor that.
But they said, if it, if thattire gets another puncture, I
guess two's the limit as far aswhat they can fix.
And then, after two, they haveto replace it.
Dan (03:55):
So, just out of curiosity, did this happen after Mercury
was in retrograde or before,before?
Charles (04:00):
Okay, yeah, all right.
So I can't, uh, I can't blamethe stars, I can only blame,
okay, some guy doingconstruction who left, uh,
screws on the ground orsomething, but uh, yeah, so but
the car is good.
Um, I'm about scheduled for anoil change.
Already I put I put about athousand miles a week on my car,
(04:20):
so every month I every fiveweeks or so six weeks I got to
get a uh oil change If I stickto the 5,000 mile rule 5,000.
Dan (04:31):
Okay, yeah, wow.
Five weeks, that's crazy.
Charles (04:34):
Yeah, I've got a.
I got an extended warranty onit that I decided to uh purchase
, since you know it's kind of upthere in miles and up there in
age and the terms of theextended warranty is I've got to
got to get it, get an oilchange every five miles.
So I just get the cheapest oilchange that Walmart has to offer
every 5,000 miles and there wego, nice.
(04:54):
So it just covers the uh, Ithink it's powertrain only
warranty.
Dan (04:58):
Okay.
Maybe the air conditioner too,but hey, listen, if it's forcing
you to do some, some goodmaintenance that I wouldn't do
otherwise, then I think you knowyou might make a little more
juice out of this one.
Charles (05:10):
That, um, yeah, plus the fact that it's A 2011 and
not a 1997, and it's Japaneseand not German.
I'm going to ring a little bitmore service time Out of it than
I've been getting out of myolder German cars.
As I've said on here and toanybody who will listen, I am
not wealthy enough to own an oldgerman car because, man, those
(05:32):
things break a lot and they'reexpensive to fix.
I'm sure new ones are greatbecause they come with a
warranty and if there's aproblem you just take it back
and say fix your car right.
But the old ones, the 20, 30year old ones, no, not for me
anymore.
I've learned my lesson.
Okay, only took me two, allright.
The guy who let us in, nice guy, not incredibly proficient.
Dan (05:53):
I could have been faster if I had my kit meanwhile, just so
you guys know, this guy tookunder a minute.
I feel it was maybe a minute,minute and a half if I was
timing it to open the door.
Charles (06:03):
Very quick.
I'm well under 15 seconds.
So Charles is throwing down thegauntlet here with this On a
lock like that.
I have less sophisticated toolsthan he had and I'm still way
faster.
So and I practice occasionallyat work and at friends' houses
when they're creeping mygirlfriend's parents' house last
(06:24):
time they had like a holidaygathering I was like, let me see
how quick I can get to thisdoor and pop.
Dan (06:30):
Was it actually locked or he just kind of showed off it
was a need, it wasn't like a hey.
Charles (06:37):
And then I had her brother give it a try too.
I was like, hey, try this out,just put this little bar here,
push down on it and then feelthe pins.
And he was able to get it openpretty quickly.
I didn't realize it was thateasy.
Whole blocks are.
It's like the TSA.
It's about the illusion ofsecurity, not about actual
security.
Oh nice, that's good, great,okay, let's, uh, let's talk
(06:57):
about the let them theory and,uh, we had one episode where I
was pretty, I was pretty excitedabout this book, and now we're
over that.
I'm back to back to hating onher some more.
Um, chapter nine is titled yes,life isn't fair.
Okay, so she's immediatelywrong right off the bat.
Life is fair, a hundred percent.
Your life might not be fairright now, but life is fair.
(07:22):
I looked it up and they theyestimate that 100 to 120 billion
homo sapiens have existed.
Okay, so, since we became homosapiens to now, uh-huh, there
have been between 100 and 120billion of us.
Yeah, and here's what I believeabout the world, and I've never
seen any evidence to thecontrary.
Out of those 100 billion people, a very close to an equal
(07:45):
number of good things and badthings have happened to those
people.
If you flip a coin a billiontimes, it's going to be pretty
much pretty close to assumingthat both sides are equally
weighted, which I know onamerican currency they're not.
But well, my right?
Dan (07:58):
my point is, you can't even say that there are sides.
I think it just things happenand it's our and, and we just
deal with those things thathappen and we based on our
beliefs and our and, and we justdeal with those things that
happen and we based on ourbeliefs and our thoughts and
everything else like that, right?
Charles (08:08):
So Right, and so is life fair?
My answer is yes, life is fair.
In the short term, it may notfeel fair, or it may not feel
fair to me.
I may.
I may feel like I've gotten waymore bad breaks than Sure, but
that's my life.
That's not life, right.
Yeah, life is fair, yeah,because I mean, I would define
(08:29):
fair as what happens to, in thebroad sense, what has happened
to every life across time andacross geography.
Yeah, whatever that is, that'sdefined as fair, yeah, and so,
however, my life deviates up ordown from that Right In the
short term, might seem betterthan fair or worse than fair,
but it's still fair.
(08:49):
And so, yeah, her title of lifeisn't fair.
It's like, yeah, but it is, andmaybe it doesn't feel fair for
you right now, and maybe itisn't fair for you right now,
but life is fair.
Yeah, your life is mid okay butlife, yeah, what?
what happens across everybodyover the long term?
(09:12):
Yeah, if that doesn't definefair, I don't know what does
right, well, that's yeah.
Dan (09:16):
I think it comes down to trying to change your perception
so you realize what you've, youknow what is is ideally what
things you have control over andwhat things you don't.
Charles (09:28):
Right and really her, her assessment of what things
you have control over and whatyou don't is one of the big
problems I had with this chap,which you know.
There are things that happen toyou as a result of luck, and
there are things that happen toyou as a result of luck, and
there are things that happenedto you.
I mean, really one could argueeverything that has happened to
(09:50):
you has been the result of luck,because none of us have chosen
our dna, none of us have chosenour parents, none of us have
chosen the time or the placethat we were born in.
All those things just happenedto us, yeah and and so, yes,
there are a list of cards thatwere dealt and that we can't
control, but there are also somecards, like when you're playing
(10:13):
gin rummy, you can say, okay, Igot this card, it's not going
to help me, so I'm going todiscard it and pick another card
instead and hope that it'sbetter.
You still have a choice.
Yes, there is some choice, eventhough you know one could argue
about libertarian free will,libertarian, not in the
political sense, libertarian asin you know, do you have the
ability to have had made adifferent choice if you could
(10:35):
wind the clock back and myattitude on that is definitely
no If I chose to wear this shirtthis morning, if I could run
back the clock of the universe,where every particle was in the
exact same position as it waswhen I chose this shirt.
Dan (10:49):
Yeah.
Charles (10:50):
I wouldn't be able to say no, I'm going to wear the
red shirt instead.
Dan (10:53):
Right.
Charles (10:53):
Because that would include every particle of every
neuron in my brain.
I chose this because I chose it, and if I could go back in time
, I couldn't change anything.
Right, that's the way I see theuniverse and the way reality
works.
Yeah, if you literally raneverything back to, because I
don't believe that there'ssomething in my head, ectoplasm
or a soul that would give me theability to, outside of space
(11:18):
and time, make other choices.
Dan (11:22):
I don't believe that that level of magic exists in my head
.
The way I look at it is youmade the appropriate choice with
the information you had at thetime.
Charles (11:28):
Right.
So if I had the exact sameinformation.
Dan (11:29):
You're gonna make the same choice at the exact same time.
I'm gonna make the exact samechoice.
Charles (11:32):
That makes sense to me, absolutely.
So this idea that, oh, I couldhave done otherwise if I.
Dan (11:37):
Yeah, that's pointless.
Charles (11:39):
Yeah, it's.
Can quantum leap back into yourbody with all the knowledge
that you currently have?
Maybe you could make adifferent choice.
Dan (11:45):
So that's exactly right, you can't make a different
choice.
People thought experimentally.
Because you don't have that newinformation right.
It's like hindsight is 20-20.
Exactly yeah.
Charles (11:54):
Monday morning quarterback no-transcript that
their best maker.
Right again, you do the samething.
(12:15):
Because how could you doanything else?
Yeah, there's nothing else inthere, right?
And even if you believe in thesoul, the spirit, the whatever,
the great point that I've heardpeople make is well, you didn't
architect that soul or thatspirit before you were born.
You didn't create that on yourown.
If it exists, it got handed toyou by a God who designed it for
you.
So it's still not under yourcontrol, right?
(12:37):
It's still not something thatyou can tweak and go back in
time and change who you are.
Dan (12:41):
You know, and I think, whether we have control or not,
I don't think that's the issue.
I think it's just making surethat we I think we crave that
feeling that we have some sortof control.
Or ability to make decisionsRight, Right it's, it's.
We're not told by an obviousexternal force that you have to
do this Right.
(13:01):
A lot of us.
Charles (13:02):
Not an obvious one, certainly, right.
And so what we can choose is wecan make some choices as far as
what kind of learningexperience we're exposed to,
what kind of podcasts we listento, what kind of books we read
and how we're willing to letthat affect our future decisions
.
Right, I think there is somechoice to be made with that.
And so she mentions some likewhether or not you're born into
(13:26):
wealth.
You don't control that, agreed,you don't control whether
you're born rich or not.
You can have some control overwhether you die rich or not,
because that comes down to a lotof the choices you make.
Not completely.
Again, if you happen to be borna little girl in 14th century
Afghanistan, you're probably notgoing to die wealthy, right,
(13:47):
and there's not all the optimaldecisions you could make in that
setting are still not going tolead to you dying wealthy.
Dan (13:53):
Mm-hmm.
Charles (13:53):
You can.
You will be born with somenatural advantages or
disadvantages.
How smart you are, how tall youare, how your metabolism
functions, the level of hand-eyecoordination, a lot of that
stuff.
You can figure out ways tomaximize the strength and
minimize the weaknesses, butthere's going to be a certain
level of those things thatyou're born with and you're
(14:15):
going to be.
How much you can improve isgoing to be limited.
Opportunities are not equallydistributed.
We talked about that.
You know already with theexample of when and where you're
born, what family you're borninto, what religion you're born
into.
That's going to certainly havesome impacts for how, how much
succeeding you can expect inyour life.
So your starting point can bedramatically different from
someone else's.
But what I didn't like aboutthis book, this chapter, is some
(14:41):
of the tools that she wasseemingly giving to people to
feel better about their lot inlife.
She says at one point ifthere's something about your
life that you're unhappy with oris disappointing you, if you
can't change it in the next 30seconds, then it's out of your
control.
Dan (15:00):
Yeah, that's not a good message.
Charles (15:02):
That's terrible.
It's not true, number one.
And it's not a good message.
That's terrible.
Yeah, it's not true.
Number one, right.
And it's not a good thing totell people number two yeah,
because most significant thingsthat I'd like to improve about
my life I am powerless to changein the next 30 seconds.
Dan (15:14):
It's not a good tool, because it's not being clear
about what you can control andwhat you can't control.
It's just, oh, if you can'tchange it in 30 seconds, well
that's, that's.
Charles (15:27):
Yeah, it's a useless tool at that point, right, I
just can't, you're right.
Can't you know how I height in30?
The next 30 seconds?
Okay, so that I can't change myheight in the next 30 years,
right.
But if you know, if I'm tiredof being out of breath when I
carry my groceries in from thecar, right, I can't change
anything about that in the next30 seconds, nope.
But in the next 30 days, maybein the next 30 months, 30 weeks,
(15:49):
absolutely, I can change that,yeah, and so, yeah, I, I don't,
really, I don't think she did agood enough job of fleshing out
what she meant by this yeah, andgiving us a tool to figure out
what very quickly what'scontrollable, what's not
controlled.
Great point and I think I thinkthe problem that most of us and
when I say us, I include you andme in this- how dare you?
(16:11):
Most of us run into is we don'thave an objective handle on
what's changeable and what's notchangeable, or how much time
and effort the changeable thingswill take to actually change.
Yeah, I think that.
Second point.
I thinkony robbins saidsomething about that where and I
think I've heard him say it onseveral occasions something
along the lines of peopleoverestimate what they can
(16:34):
change in a year andunderestimate what they can
change in 10 years.
Right, and he does say that alot yeah and I think I'm like,
yeah, I definitely I do that too.
I think, oh, by the end thisyear I'm going to accomplish all
these things, and some of themI get done and many of them I
don't.
But if you had a plan where youset yourself up for I'm going
to work on this for the next 10years, you could probably get
(16:56):
done a lot more.
It's just you got to wake upday in and day out and work that
plan, and that's where it'shard for a lot of us to do that.
Dan (17:03):
Absolutely.
And then, as soon as I know I'mguilty of this as soon as you
start to run into somethingthat's a little bit difficult,
if you don't have a reallystrong why in terms of why
you're doing this, you're goingto let it stop you and derail
you, so you're going tooverestimate how much more
difficult something is than itactually is.
Charles (17:26):
And then you end up just not doing anything.
Yeah, and you and I also, Imean we've we've had on this
with you know, with our ownfitness and our and our show,
and all the thing is when, whenyou don't see the improvements
fast enough, you think, okay,well, the answer is I've got to
change the plan.
I got to switch up the plans.
I got to.
I got to change the workout, Igot to change the diet, I got to
change the fill in the blank,because you know what was
originally a we're going to do,we're going to implement this
(17:47):
one year plan.
It's like, okay, well, itdidn't work after a month.
So now I got to change up theplan.
Yeah, and that's that's the,that's very human of people to
do, or maybe it's it's moreprimate of humans to do than it
is human, because, yeah, thedelayed gratification of
(18:08):
long-term work and long-termresults is harder for some of us
than others.
Dan (18:13):
Yeah, I've heard you should try to fall in love with,
instead of the outcome goal, isthe process goal of falling in
love with, you know, doing thatprocess and being consistent
with it.
But that's not sexy, that's notexciting.
So that's my challenge is howdo I get excited about getting
consistent with something overand over and over again, like
(18:34):
where's like the payoff and thereward, in that you have to
really love whatever it is thatyou're doing, I think, in order
to get that?
You know, like some people,they fall in love with running
and they get that runner's highand and you know, they're not
necessarily you know yeah, it'snot for everybody.
Charles (18:48):
I've never raised a runner's side that felt as good
as running feels bad, right yeahand that's the thing.
Dan (18:53):
A lot of people it's the same thing.
They're not into it, but youknow they just they love that
process.
Yes, they, you know a lot oftimes the one races and
marathons.
A lot of them don't, but theylove the process of running and
so it's easy to be consistentwith it.
And I think that's the key isreally figuring out what you
love.
Charles (19:10):
Yeah, and that is the key.
Dan (19:13):
But, yeah, how do you find a process that you love compared
to that's going to lead youultimately, as a side effect,
the outcome that you're lookingfor.
Charles (19:21):
Yeah, that's.
That's a challenge.
I've yet to find a any of theprocesses that lead to any of my
long-term goals.
Dan (19:28):
Yeah.
Charles (19:29):
It's like some.
Sometimes I just grin and bearit and just do it anyway.
I mean the process of puttingone foot in front of the other
on a long mountain hike.
I don't love that process, butit's like I just for me.
All I have to do is love itenough to get halfway out in the
middle of nowhere, and then Ihave no choice but to walk back.
Dan (19:49):
Yeah, so but along the way, you also make it more enjoyable
.
You're like listening to booksor podcasts or whatever.
That is Right.
So you're yeah, you'reamplifying the enjoyment of the
actual process.
Charles (19:59):
Yeah, but it really yeah.
For me it really does come downto what do they call that?
Like level two fun or whatever,where it's like you're not
going to enjoy this in themoment, you're only going to
enjoy this by looking back on it.
Like a roller coaster is levelone fun where it's fun in the in
the moment, but you never lookback on it and say, man, I wish
I would.
I long for the days three yearsago when I was on that roller
coaster.
(20:19):
Nobody does that, right?
But yeah with me, like, if I'mdoing a 20 mile hike, it really
does need to do is staymotivated enough to get out 10
miles away from home and thenthe second half of the hike
takes care of itself.
Right, I either die in thewoods or I walk back and get in
my car.
There's your motivation, right,exactly like motivation doesn't
factor into it, right, it's?
(20:40):
Yeah, all you have to domotivation to live.
All you have to do is gethalfway done with any hike.
If you're out and back hikefair.
All you have to do is gethalfway done and then you'll
figure out a way to get the restof the way done.
It's easy.
She talks a couple of storiesin here.
You remember the story abouther friend who was renovating
the dream home and all the Iguess jealousy or I guess she
(21:03):
didn't really highlight thejealousy as much.
She just felt bad about herselfthat her friend had this amazing
house that her kids wanted tohang out in.
Dan (21:11):
I mean they had queen-sized bunk beds.
I was pretty impressive.
Charles (21:15):
I wish I had that.
I wouldn't even know where togo buy a queen-sized bunk bed.
Dan (21:20):
That's custom baby, I'm sure Exactly.
And then I'm like, why not king?
Like why were they cheaping out?
Charles (21:25):
Why would you stop at queen right?
The end of the story that I washoping for, which I didn't
really think.
Even if she did do this, sheprobably wouldn't put in the
book.
What I would have foundfulfilling is the end of the
story is okay.
I sold my first book the fiveminute or five second or
whatever horseshit that is and Imade a second roll yes, and I
made a bajillion dollars off ofit.
(21:47):
So I bought my neighbor's house.
I bought their dream house andI demolished it.
Now it's just an empty lot thatI can look at.
That's what would have done itfor me.
Dan (21:56):
That's what I would, that would have got all right I like
this lady.
Charles (21:59):
All right, that's where I would have been a little.
Now I get mel robbins.
She understands me and Iunderstand her.
I bought my friend's dreamhouse, I demolished it and I
turned it into a lawn and I justgo look at it it's one of those
where she flicks a cigarette.
It's just walking away, walkingaway yeah, blows up, yeah, like
a michael bain movie.
Yeah, yeah, but no, she didn'tdo that.
She didn't make any referenceto building a bigger house or
(22:22):
having her friend's housedestroyed or anything.
Yeah, so I don't get it.
Um, here she let's see.
70 of people experiencenegative self-comparison from
social media use.
77, that feels a little low.
Dan (22:36):
Yeah, I think anybody who gets on social media at some
point can feel somewhat I can'tthink of a time where I've
specifically felt a negativeself-comparison.
Charles (22:46):
Maybe I have I don't know, I'm not.
It's not ringing a bell, butI'm sure I've, I'm sure I've
done that Comparison activatesbrain stress responses that are
similar to physical pain I don'tknow about that I mean, I don't
remember.
I again, I don't remembergetting that upset by.
I guess it could.
I mean, I guess if you're theyhave something, you have a
really strong reaction.
(23:07):
So I don't know, I'm trying tofind another piece of this
chapter that really resonatedwith me or made me angry.
I don't know.
I'm trying to find anotherpiece of this chapter that
really resonated with me or mademe angry, I don't know.
I we talked about it before westarted recording the your life
yes, life isn't fair chapter.
And the next chapter, how tomake comparison to your teacher
it feels like they're they'reopposite is really getting the
shitty end of the stick from hermom in this book.
(23:28):
Mm-hmm.
The stuff she says about herdaughter that I think she thinks
is being helpful or being kindis really not.
Dan (23:57):
I'd be curious to hear that conversation behind the scenes
when they're writing this bookbetween the two of them about
that information.
Charles (24:03):
I mean the question is, is the daughter even bringing
up to her mother like, hey, like, does the daughter realize that
this is a shitty way to betalked about in a book that's
going to be read by hundreds ofthousands of people?
And if she does realize it, isshe saying something to her
mother about it?
I mean, yeah, it's not my jobto say mel robbins did her
(24:24):
daughter dirty, but it kind ofis my job to say that because I
would not appreciate beingtalked about the way that she
talks about her oldest daughterwell, I think what, yeah, to
kind of highlight what you'retalking about is the comparison
between her two daughters.
Yeah, kendall and sawyer.
So here's the older one,kendall's a younger one.
Kendall is I mean inquote-unquote better shape.
(24:45):
However, mel decides to definethat uh has a beautiful singing
voice, is more athletic, has afast metabolism, and Sawyer
doesn't have those things.
And, as Mel describes it,sawyer's constantly complaining
or compares, comparing herselfto her younger sister and
feeling awful about it.
And the way Mel Robbins is likeyeah, sawyer got a bad hand of
(25:09):
cards dealt to her, I was likewe're making that determination
based on these four areas thatyou've cited in the book, that
her set of cards or her hand ofcards is not as good.
Yeah, it's like there's got tobe things about this girl that
are positive that you're nottalking about in this book and
you're just making ageneralization that, yeah, she
(25:32):
didn't get as good of a life asyour younger daughter because
your younger daughter isskinnier.
Dan (25:38):
Essentially, yes, there's a nicer body by current standards
the feeling that I got wasthese were things that were
important to sawyer, because shewas the one saying I don't fit
in any of kendall's clothes.
She fits in all of mine.
And it sounds like there mighthave been some sort of singing
you know issue or something,whatever it is.
But it sounds like, yeah, thosecards are the ones that were
(25:59):
important to Sawyer, even thoughshe might be smarter, funnier,
more successful with her career,whatever that is.
But maybe that's just not asimportant to her as those other
four cards.
I don't know, yeah, but not asimportant to her as those other
four cards.
I don't know, yeah, but becausewe all have.
We all have the things that likeyou do right that are like well
, this is important to me andyou're like but you're this and
you're that and you're done.
And you're just like, well,yeah, okay, and ironically it's
(26:22):
probably because you know, thosethings are the things that come
easy to us, so, for whateverreason, we kind of disvalue them
yeah, I, I just feel likehaving value having your mom
talk about it in those terms,though it has.
Charles (26:35):
Just, I mean, if I had a daughter that had concerns
about her athletic ability, herweight, her metabolism, her
singing voice, you know, yes, Iwould be honest with her about
yeah, okay, you're gonna yougoing to have to work harder at
those things than your sisterdoes, or harder than you feel is
(26:55):
fair for you to have to work ifyou want the results that your
sister had and I think that'sthe part that was missing out of
this chapter was that you canchange those things and but you
need to work.
Dan (27:05):
you might need to work harder than what you see your
sister working if she didn'treally get into right the let me
part of this whole.
Charles (27:12):
yeah, and that's an area and that feels unfair.
I mean the to.
If you want the same thing,that somebody else has, making
peace with the fact that you'llhave to work harder for it than
they do.
Yes, that does feel unfair inthe moment and I get that.
Yeah, but that doesn't mean youcan't do it and that doesn't
mean that it might not be worthdoing, but it also doesn't mean
(27:33):
you're a better or worse personthan them either, and that's the
just the language that she usedtalking about Sawyer getting
dealt a worse hand, like, listen, when it comes to these
specific concerns that you have,yes, you don't have the natural
ability that your sister wasborn, so you're going to have to
work harder to have things thatare comparable to her.
(27:55):
Yeah, and yeah, I get thatdoesn't feel great, but that's
okay and those may not be thingsthat you need.
Anyway, the way you're thinkingabout what your life would be
like if you had her metabolismor her singing voice, there's a
good chance that you don'treally have a good handle on
that.
You feel like your life wouldbe better if you were skinnier
(28:15):
and a better singer, but whatare the things that you're
hoping that that life of abetter singer would actually
deliver for you.
Like what are the feelings thatyou think you would have if you
could sing like your sistersing?
Let's talk about what thosethings are and let's talk about
how you get those things orthose feelings without having to
kill yourself, to go to thevoice lessons or starving
(28:39):
yourself or whatever.
It's.
Just there seems to be, yeah, alot of root causes that mel
robbins just either doesn'tperceive of or doesn't spend
time talking about in this book,like okay, that's, that's the
way your life is right now, butwhy is your life that way and
why does it matter to you?
Why does that feel like lacking?
Dan (28:59):
Yeah.
Charles (29:00):
So yeah, with with these two chapters nine and 10,
and then also an 11 and 12,which we talked about a little
bit off air as well.
She's a smart lady, but itfeels to me like she's just
missing the point on a lot ofstuff for somebody who is
selling this many books andinfluencing this many people.
I'm picking up on a lot ofareas where I feel like she's
(29:21):
clueless.
Dan (29:23):
Yeah, I think she starts to get into people taking
responsibility for theirposition in the next chapter a
little bit in terms of how tomake comparison, your teacher
right.
So I think the my, my beliefwas that, you know, chapter nine
is really to kind of meetpeople where they are, where
they're feeling like powerless,that life is unfair.
(29:46):
And then my, the way I'mthinking about it is, once she
has their attention in the nextchapter, she says okay, take
some of that energy, that anger,that jealousy, whatever that is
, and start to try to dosomething with it.
Charles (30:04):
Yeah, and I don't feel like I mean in chapter 10, I
feel like she talked aboutjealousy in way more positive
terms than it deserves to betalked about.
I mean, I think that there is anegative connotation to jealousy
, that it's just bad, and shewas talking about it being a
motive.
(30:25):
It was like there's nothingwrong with noticing the
difference between who you areand who someone else is.
There's nothing wrong noticingwhat they have and what you
don't have, but just the thelanguage of jealousy that she's
using just does not feel helpfulto me.
Dan (30:43):
Yeah, so I think Brene Brown talked about the
difference between jealousy andenvy and, to be honest with you,
I forget exactly what thenuance is.
Charles (30:57):
Let's see.
Jealousy and envy are oftenused interchangeably in casual
speech, but refer to distinctemotional experience.
Envy is the painful feeling youget when someone else has
something that you want.
Let's see what, uh whatjealousy.
Dan (31:10):
Jealousy is the fear that something you already have will
be taken away oh, so she'stalking about envy here, not
even jealousy, because what, howelse?
What's gonna be taken away fromyou?
Yes, other than the fear thatbecause so-and-so did something
before you did.
So I think she was talkingabout somebody had an interior
(31:30):
design business, and I don'tknow if that was this chapter or
the next one.
I think you're might be right,and she was talking about you
know, putting it out online andright before she did oh, the
crappy website.
Charles (31:45):
Compared to the other person who just got started,
they had a better website.
Dan (31:48):
Exactly, and it's because she was like dragging her feet,
never actually did the websiteRight, and so now she was yeah,
that's definitely envy.
Charles (31:55):
That's not jealousy.
Jealousy is yeah.
And in most cases we think ofjealousy when it comes to a
relationship or a partner.
I've got this partner or thisrelationship and I'm worried
that somebody else is gonna takeit away from me or I'm going to
lose it.
So I'm jealous, yeah, when Isee my partner talking to some
guy at work or something.
Dan (32:13):
Yeah, part of that too was I think it was a woman in her
neighborhood and so all theneighbors were talking about it.
So I'm just wondering if thatteeters on some jealousy there
because thinking, oh hey, I'mlosing these contacts, I'm not
going to have this network ofpeople referring me because now
(32:33):
she did it before I did, kind ofthing yeah so, but the more I
think about it, the lessjealousy really applies in that
case or in the rest of thischapter.
Charles (32:43):
Like, yeah, jealousy is a motivator is like all jealous
based on this.
Dan (32:48):
All jealousy can be is I've got something and I'm afraid
I'm going to lose it so what Ithink a lot of us do is we
become, we start out envious andthen that turns into jealousy,
because I sometimes I know Ifeel, hey, oh, this person did
this amazing thing.
Well, it's already been donebefore, so so why bother?
Kind of thing.
And to me that's like it's ajealousy, almost like all right,
(33:10):
well, it's been taken away fromme because even though in
reality that's not the case andI never had it in my mind, it's
there's a limited supply of itand this other person did it
first, and now there's nothingleft for me.
Charles (33:23):
Yeah, and.
Dan (33:25):
Or it's going to be more difficult for me.
Charles (33:27):
Yeah, it's.
It's a weird word game tryingto spin jealousy or envy into a
positive motivation to get offyour butt and do something.
I just don't.
I don't see how she can reallypull that off with people.
It's like I would say step oneis you need to turn your back on
both jealousy and envy beforeyou can really pull that off
with people.
It's like I would say step oneis you need to turn your back on
both jealousy and envy beforeyou can do anything positive for
(33:52):
yourself or anybody else.
Yeah, I mean, I find you knowwhen.
Look, I don't have anyaspirations to become a model or
an NBA basketball player,anything that I want to
accomplish in life.
I've got the natural tools andability to pull off, and so you
know I don't feel like I'mbanging my head against my
(34:15):
whatever my ceiling is for myability to be a fill in the
blank Again, I'm never going to,no matter how hard I work, I'm
not going to make it to the NBA.
And no matter how hard I work,no matter how hard I work, I'm
not going to make it to the NBA.
And no matter how hard I work,I'm not going to probably become
, you know, a fashion model or aphysical fitness influencer.
It's just not.
It's just none of the cards.
(34:35):
But the things I do want to do,I can do, and I find the reason
that I'm not already doing thosethings is one of two things
either I don't know enough or Idon't care enough.
And I really think, for mostpeople, the things you want out
of life, you don't have thembecause you don't know enough or
you don't care enough, andthose are some pretty easy
(34:55):
levers to adjust if you want to.
Right, I mean, the caring aboutit is probably the harder of
the two, because that factorsinto motivation, inspiration,
adherence, all those things thatyou know you and I talk about
all the time, that are.
You can't just snap yourfingers and decide to adhere to
the plan you've made foryourself, whether that's your
(35:18):
professional development in yourcareer or your health and
fitness goals, or you're wantinghow much money you wanted to
save for your retirement.
You can't just very easily wakeup one day and say I am going
to a hundred percent adhere tothis plan that I came up with,
because it's hard to do that.
But the knowledge part is a loteasier, I find.
(35:39):
If you care enough, you'll findthe knowledge that you need to
to succeed.
And so really, the, themotivation, inspiration, the you
know getting doing the work tofigure out what your why is and
then deciding, you know nottricking yourself into thinking
you care about something enoughto actually do the hard work
that it takes to get that thingdone, which you know I I run
into that myself all the time,like there are things that I
(36:02):
think matter enough to me to dothe hard work to get it done,
yeah.
But then I get in the middle ofit it was like, oh, this is a
little bit more work than thisis more work.
The workout weighs themotivation or the inspiration,
or the commitment, or whateverit's like.
It's like, yeah, I, I enjoytalking about wanting to do this
and I enjoy talking aboutwanting to have this final
result, but waking up and doingthe things that gets it for me
(36:26):
on days that I don't feel likeit.
I don't care that much, I careslightly less than that.
Dan (36:30):
Yeah, I think that's where it's good to have some sort of
outside advice in some form,because I know for me I go to,
and you do this too is, if I'mnot doing it this way, I'm never
going to get there.
So, instead of trying to makeit easier and continuing on
doing it, we'd just be like we'dkind of wipe our hands where
(36:51):
they'd be like well, I'm nevergoing to get there because I
feel like this is the only wayto get there.
Right, yeah, and this is my onlyoption, and sometimes you need
that outside advice to say no,no, no, no, it can be done.
Doing it this way, that way orin an easier way than what
you're currently doing, it Right.
And the other part is you'vegot to believe that device.
(37:11):
You got to believe that they'reactually, you know that they're
knowledgeable, that they'regiving you actual good
information.
So I think a lot of times formyself anyway, that's all I
don't do, that I am rigid withthe things that I'm doing and
thinking times for myself,anyway, that's all I don't do,
that I am rigid with the thingsthat I'm doing and thinking,
okay, well, why bother if it's,if it's not, if I'm not working
(37:31):
out five days a week, I'm nevergoing to get in the shape that I
want to get into, and that'sthat's.
Until I heard Dr Mike talkingabout it on podcasts.
Whatever you know three or fourtimes, you know and you'll
absolutely get there.
And whatever you know three orfour times, you know and you'll
absolutely get there.
And then, once you hear like anexpert talking about it, you're
like, okay, I can dial it backand then stay more consistent
with it and actually start toenjoy this a little bit more, or
(37:53):
I'm at least willing toexperiment and give that a shot
for a while, because this personthat I respect, with some
information that he's got, sayshere's another way of
approaching it.
Charles (38:04):
When it comes to certain things about saving
money or progressing in yourcareer or improving your health
and fitness, when you're anabsolute novice and you're just
starting out, you can just liveby principles and see huge
benefit right off the bat.
But then when you get a littlebit more sophisticated and
(38:24):
you're trying to get a littlebit more dialed in and getting
uncommon results like you'retrying to, you know, get a
portfolio balance or a body thatmost people never achieve then
you know you do have to startputting in that you put in 20%
of the work to get 80% of theresults, but then if you want
that other 20%, you got to do80% of the work.
(38:46):
And that's where a lot ofpeople, myself included, will
just check out and say okay,because there's things, there's
trade-offs, good enough.
Dan (38:53):
Right, cause there's trade-offs, trading off things
that you really love and enjoyand spend time doing for, for
taking up the extra effort ofwhatever that is you're trying
to accomplish.
Charles (39:03):
Yeah, yeah, effort of whatever that is you're trying
to accomplish, yeah, yeah, toget those uncommon results.
You're going to have to put anuncommon effort where to get
common results, common effortsenough, and for some people
that's good enough.
I mean, if I was, I've been 40,50 pounds heavier than I am
right now, and to get down towhere I am now in the moment, I
thought, boy, this is hard, thisis difficult, and now I'm
(39:25):
trying to drop 10 more pounds.
It's like, oh no, I didn'trealize how easy the last 40 was
compared to the next 10.
Dan (39:32):
But your previous experience was not anything
difficult.
Charles (39:35):
No, you were eating everything you enjoyed.
Right In the moment it feltdifficult, but now looking back
I was like, oh, that was easy.
Yes, what am I talking about?
Dan (39:43):
If I knew then what I know.
Charles (39:45):
Getting up and going for an hour long walk in the
morning and then just not eatingsugar or grain felt like I was
torturing myself back then.
But now it's like oh, that was,that was easy, that was nothing
.
Those are things I could justflip a switch and do whenever I
want to now, right.
But it doesn't really make muchof a difference to me now
because I don't have as muchwork to do, right?
So that's where we so envy is Iwant something other people
(40:08):
have.
Jealousy is I have things thatI'm scared are going to get
taken away.
And again, I don't see.
I don't see a way that spendingyour time in either of those
States is going to prompt you tomake your life better or prompt
you to be nice to be aroundeither.
Yeah, so yeah, I find I findher her language about uh, I
(40:31):
mean comparison.
I'm okay with the wordcomparison and I'm okay with the
idea that you can usecomparison to torture yourself
or you can use comparison toteach yourself.
A hundred percent Love that.
But when she uses the wordjealousy in the way that she
uses it, I just I don't see it.
Dan (40:45):
Yeah, I think the issue too is I don't think she offers
enough support in terms ofgetting us to change those
feelings of envy and jealousyinto comparison as a motivating
teaching tool, right?
So basically, one of the thingsshe said is you're not
(41:06):
competing against other peoplein life.
You're playing with them inlife and look at them as your
teacher, right?
So that when they're doingsomething better than you, don't
look at it as being envious orjealous but say hey, this person
figured something out before meand now I can learn from that
and that can be a shortcut foryou to get to where you want to
(41:28):
be.
But she doesn't really get intohow to make that mind shift and
keep it consistent enough sothat you're willing to continue
taking action and follow through.
Charles (41:41):
Yeah, I think the problem that a lot of people run
into is thinking that, oh well,the thing I want to do, there's
too many people doing it and soI missed my chance.
I missed my opportunity andit's like, in reality, most of
the people that are doing thething you want to do you've
never seen or heard of becausethey suck, and most of the
(42:01):
people doing the thing you wantto do are failing at it.
Most of the people doing thething you want to do are failing
at it.
There, there are slotsavailable at the top and new
slots can be added all the time.
You know this idea.
There's already a hundredpeople that are a arts and
crafts influencer on instagram.
So I missed my chance.
It's like you didn't.
If you're good at it and youstick to it and you know and you
(42:23):
care at a level other peopledon't care about yeah, and you
learn care at a level otherpeople don't care about.
Yeah, and you learn things at alevel other people aren't
learning and you're consistentand you stick with it, then yeah
, you can.
You can do that thing thatother people are already doing
and you don't have to pull oneof them down to give you a spot.
Dan (42:40):
The other thing too is you are using your reticular
activating system where you arelooking for things that you tell
yourself are important If youwant to be X like underwater
basket weaver type person, andyou're going to be searching for
other big named underwaterbasket weavers who have been
(43:03):
doing this for years and yearsand years.
So you're literally surroundingyourself and populating all the
things around you, or mostthings around you with this,
with these people who arealready where you want to be.
So now your perspective is hey,there's so many people out
there doing that Meanwhilepeople who are, like, casually
looking for somebody inunderwater basket weaving.
(43:24):
They don't see them all overthe place and they just might
run into you first, right, andlike the way you resonate with
them, your message, the way youspeak, all of those things.
So you are really operatingfrom a perspective of where you
are thinking.
Yeah, there are so many ofthese people because that's
what's important to you, you andyour.
(43:46):
The all the algorithms onsocial media and online, they
all you know they track youbetween the cookies and
everything else, and they willgive you the information that
you're searching for.
So, yes, I'm sure you'researching for things related to
underwater basket weaving, butso you're now surrounded in
thinking hey, it's everywhere,it's been done, there's no place
for me.
Charles (44:06):
Yeah, and one of the points that she makes in the, as
far as the practicalapplications that she discusses,
is look at other people in thefield that you want to succeed
in and look at it with a morecritical eye of, I mean, even
somebody who's really good.
It's still possible to look atsomething they've done and think
I could have done that a littlebit different and I think it
(44:28):
might've been better, and it'squite possible that you're right
about that.
Dan (44:32):
Like and now, that's your flavor right.
Charles (44:34):
Exactly, that's your take, that's your difference.
You figure out.
Oh okay, if I was, if I wasdoing something like this, I
would do it a little bitdifferent, and I guarantee
there's some people out therethat your way would be would
resonate with more than theirway.
Yeah, and so just put yourselfout there and try it, and the
celebrating progress is thetough part too, where you know
(44:55):
it's, it's hard to do.
That.
If I had it to do over again, Ido the exact same thing, cause
I know that most of the time,making that, taking that choice
and making that leap will workout for me.
Even though it didn't work outthis time, I still made the
right call, and that's hard to,that's hard to remember in the
immediate aftermath of a lessthan optimal result yeah, we're
(45:15):
pre-wired to remember the stingsmore than the victories.
So yeah, yeah and we're morepre-wired to to unfairly wait
the recent past as opposed toall of our other life experience
, and they'd be telling ussomething else.
Dan (45:28):
Yeah, I like it.
Charles (45:29):
The thing that just happens feels so much more real
to me than everything else I'velearned up to this point.
Dan (45:35):
That's a good point yeah.
That's going to have.
That's going to be moredefinitely be weighted more.
Charles (45:40):
Yeah, but like you said , we and we tend to do that more
with the losses than the wins,like you know, even if we just
had a big success in our recentpast.
Yeah, it worked out this time,but what about next time?
Dan (45:53):
Another reason to track things and and and look be able
to look back.
Charles (45:56):
Yeah, even if that track is just journaling.
Yeah, all right, I think we canstop there.
So chapters nine and 10, not abig fan, and I stop there.
So chapters 9 and 10 not a bigfan, and I listened to 10 and 11
on the way, or no, 11 and 12 onthe way over, where we'll
discuss that next time about, um, adult friendships and why they
come and go or why they maycrest and wane, and uh, yeah, I
(46:23):
got a lot to say about her ideaswhen it comes to friendships.
Okay, if you knew herpersonally, do you think you'd
be friends with her?
Probably Not me, man.
Yeah, I would resist the urgeto talk crap about her behind
her back, I think, cause Igenerally I try not to do that
about people.
Yeah, but I would just be likeman this oh, you're hanging out
(46:45):
with Melonite.
You guys have fun, I'm out, nothanks.
Dan (46:48):
I like her because she she gets to the psychology of a lot
of things and tries to figureout, like, why people do things.
So it'd be interestingconversation, except for herself
.
Charles (46:59):
She talks about herself , she does.
I think she when she talksabout the way that she works I
don't know, man, she strikes meas, again, she's a smart person
and I think there are goodthings in this book, there's
things to learn.
But, man, on my list of peoplethat are just exhausting to be
around, the people who are notself-aware but think they are,
(47:23):
are really close to the top ofthat list and that's the
category I put her in.
She thinks she's self-aware butthink they are, are really
close to the top of that listand that's the category I put
her in.
She thinks she's self-aware butshe is not.
The stuff coming out of hermouth and her, her not knowing
what she sounds like to at leastme.
I mean, maybe other peopledon't don't see it and maybe
that's because I'm notself-aware, but some of the
stuff she says it, but some ofthe stuff she says it just
(47:44):
grades on me.
It's like you're cause I findthat she is.
She's conflicting herself a lotin this book where she's talking
about the way she works and theway the world works, and then
it's like, yeah, but the wayyou're telling people to handle
that situation goes exactlyagainst what you're what you're
saying a chapter ago and it'sdriving me crazy.
So I don't know.
We'll see, We'll see how uh, Iknow how 11 and 12 go.
(48:09):
We'll see how the chaptersafter that go.
Maybe she'll win me back again,Cause we'll see.
It was, was it seven, that Ireally liked?
I think it was seven and eightthat I I liked.
Maybe, and nine and 10, she lostme again.
So we'll see what's next.
All we'll see what's next, allright, thanks, dan.
We'll talk to you next time,all right, thanks so much for
sticking with us for the entireepisode.
We certainly appreciate it.
Next time We'll continue ourseries on the let them theory as
(48:30):
we dive into chapters 11 and 12, which will include exploring
the complexities of adultfriendship and why some of them
naturally fade until next time.
It's not my job to say Mel Robbins did her daughter
dirty, but it kind of is my jobto say that, because I would not
appreciate being talked aboutthe way that she talks about her
oldest daughter.
Welcome to the MindfullyMasculine Podcast.
This is Charles.
In this episode, we arechallenging some of the more
popular ideas from chapters 9and 10 of the Let them Theory by
(00:21):
Mel Robbins.
Dan and I will take on herclaim that life isn't fair and
make a case for why she getsthat wrong.
We also push back against her30-second rule, arguing that
real change takes more than aquick decision.
It takes consistent effort overtime.
And we wrap up the conversationabout learning to love the
process, not just chasing theresult.
Check out our websitemindfullymasculinecom for all of
(00:44):
our episodes, audio video,anything else we want to share
and enjoy.
Dan (00:51):
Good morning Charles.
How are you?
Charles (00:52):
Hey Dan Good, how are you?
Dan (00:54):
I am doing well.
Charles (00:55):
Any new adventures to talk about?
Dan (00:57):
No, nothing, nothing at all .
Charles (00:59):
Nothing happened at all this morning, so yeah, this
morning I got here and we wereall.
We were both locked out of yourhouse.
Dan (01:06):
Thanks to me, because I ignored lots of beeping from my
front door lock for many monthsnow.
Charles (01:13):
Yeah, the lock was definitely smarter than the
owner.
Dan (01:16):
In this case, absolutely, and the owner had his sprinkling
system replaced.
So, of course, the secretoutdoor key that I hide in my
fake sprinkler head was nowhereto be found.
Where do we think?
Charles (01:28):
that is Probably just in the dumpster.
Dan (01:30):
Oh yeah, from the system, or best case scenario my, my, my
old sprinkler guys have it.
Charles (01:36):
Oh, maybe, yeah, yeah, and I didn't have my lock
picking kit which uh that, uh alot of good it did me this
morning.
It was a little bit of a blow.
Why do I not just keep that inmy car at all times?
It makes no sense.
Dan (01:49):
Yeah.
Charles (01:50):
What good is it doing to me in my house?
None, yep, so I'm going to haveto.
Dan (01:53):
You've got the keys to your house.
You never need to break inthere.
Charles (02:00):
Actually, no, I'd be called AAA as well.
Oh my God, yeah, so AAA cameout.
Let us back in.
Dan (02:06):
So something I didn't realize AAA does not just open
cars.
Cars, yeah, so they contact alocksmith and they will credit
your account as if it was a car,basically, I guess.
So I had a $50 voucher kind offor my AAA membership for
unlocking a car.
So I had a $50 voucher kind offor my AAA membership for
unlocking a car.
(02:27):
They credited that towards thecost of opening the front door,
which apparently is cheaper thantrying to re-engineer a new key
.
Charles (02:33):
That doesn't surprise me.
On a newer car with theelectronic, newer.
Dan (02:37):
Transponder 2014.
I mean, I guess for you it's anewer car, Absolutely.
Charles (02:41):
Why I have a 2011.
Yeah, it's a newer car.
Absolutely why I have a 2011.
Yeah, I think 2011 might be thethe newest car I've ever had,
because my my yaris was also a2011 and every car I've had
since then has been older than2011.
Wow, I don't think I've owned acar newer than 2011 and the new
cars treating you well.
Dan (02:57):
The honda, yes yeah, it's nice.
Charles (02:59):
yeah had to buy new tires for it like right after I
bought it and, uh, those weresomewhat expensive but I got
them at Walmart and I got a tie,a kind of tire at Walmart that
they assured me like everyWalmart carries, and I got the
road hazard warranty.
So they're like if you everhave a flat, if you ever have a
problem, you pretty much justget towed to the closest Walmart
(03:20):
and we'll be able to replace itwith the same nice make and
model.
Dan (03:23):
Yeah, and.
Charles (03:23):
I already mart and we'll be able to replace it with
the same nice make and model.
Yeah, and I already had to takeit to them.
I I ran over two screws, likewithin a couple weeks of getting
the new tire, of course, andthey were both like right in the
bottom middle of it and theywere going to plug both of them.
So I didn't have to becausethey they do charge you.
Even when you get the roadhazard warranty if you have to
replace a tire, they stillcharge you the installation and
balancing, oh oh.
But to repair was completelyfree.
(03:44):
I didn't have to pay anythingfor that.
But they said, if it, if thattire gets another puncture, I
guess two's the limit as far aswhat they can fix.
And then, after two, they haveto replace it.
Dan (03:55):
So, just out of curiosity, did this happen after Mercury
was in retrograde or before,before?
Charles (04:00):
Okay, yeah, all right.
So I can't, uh, I can't blamethe stars, I can only blame,
okay, some guy doingconstruction who left, uh,
screws on the ground orsomething, but uh, yeah, so but
the car is good.
Um, I'm about scheduled for anoil change.
Already I put I put about athousand miles a week on my car,
(04:20):
so every month I every fiveweeks or so six weeks I got to
get a uh oil change If I stickto the 5,000 mile rule 5,000.
Dan (04:31):
Okay, yeah, wow.
Five weeks, that's crazy.
Charles (04:34):
Yeah, I've got a.
I got an extended warranty onit that I decided to uh purchase
, since you know it's kind of upthere in miles and up there in
age and the terms of theextended warranty is I've got to
got to get it, get an oilchange every five miles.
So I just get the cheapest oilchange that Walmart has to offer
every 5,000 miles and there wego, nice.
(04:54):
So it just covers the uh, Ithink it's powertrain only
warranty.
Dan (04:58):
Okay.
Maybe the air conditioner too,but hey, listen, if it's forcing
you to do some, some goodmaintenance that I wouldn't do
otherwise, then I think you knowyou might make a little more
juice out of this one.
Charles (05:10):
That, um, yeah, plus the fact that it's A 2011 and
not a 1997, and it's Japaneseand not German.
I'm going to ring a little bitmore service time Out of it than
I've been getting out of myolder German cars.
As I've said on here and toanybody who will listen, I am
not wealthy enough to own an oldgerman car because, man, those
(05:32):
things break a lot and they'reexpensive to fix.
I'm sure new ones are greatbecause they come with a
warranty and if there's aproblem you just take it back
and say fix your car right.
But the old ones, the 20, 30year old ones, no, not for me
anymore.
I've learned my lesson.
Okay, only took me two, allright.
The guy who let us in, nice guy, not incredibly proficient.
Dan (05:53):
I could have been faster if I had my kit meanwhile, just so
you guys know, this guy tookunder a minute.
I feel it was maybe a minute,minute and a half if I was
timing it to open the door.
Charles (06:03):
Very quick.
I'm well under 15 seconds.
So Charles is throwing down thegauntlet here with this On a
lock like that.
I have less sophisticated toolsthan he had and I'm still way
faster.
So and I practice occasionallyat work and at friends' houses
when they're creeping mygirlfriend's parents' house last
(06:24):
time they had like a holidaygathering I was like, let me see
how quick I can get to thisdoor and pop.
Dan (06:30):
Was it actually locked or he just kind of showed off it
was a need, it wasn't like a hey.
Charles (06:37):
And then I had her brother give it a try too.
I was like, hey, try this out,just put this little bar here,
push down on it and then feelthe pins.
And he was able to get it openpretty quickly.
I didn't realize it was thateasy.
Whole blocks are.
It's like the TSA.
It's about the illusion ofsecurity, not about actual
security.
Oh nice, that's good, great,okay, let's, uh, let's talk
(06:57):
about the let them theory and,uh, we had one episode where I
was pretty, I was pretty excitedabout this book, and now we're
over that.
I'm back to back to hating onher some more.
Um, chapter nine is titled yes,life isn't fair.
Okay, so she's immediatelywrong right off the bat.
Life is fair, a hundred percent.
Your life might not be fairright now, but life is fair.
(07:22):
I looked it up and they theyestimate that 100 to 120 billion
homo sapiens have existed.
Okay, so, since we became homosapiens to now, uh-huh, there
have been between 100 and 120billion of us.
Yeah, and here's what I believeabout the world, and I've never
seen any evidence to thecontrary.
Out of those 100 billion people, a very close to an equal
(07:45):
number of good things and badthings have happened to those
people.
If you flip a coin a billiontimes, it's going to be pretty
much pretty close to assumingthat both sides are equally
weighted, which I know onamerican currency they're not.
But well, my right?
Dan (07:58):
my point is, you can't even say that there are sides.
I think it just things happenand it's our and, and we just
deal with those things thathappen and we based on our
beliefs and our and, and we justdeal with those things that
happen and we based on ourbeliefs and our thoughts and
everything else like that, right?
Charles (08:08):
So Right, and so is life fair?
My answer is yes, life is fair.
In the short term, it may notfeel fair, or it may not feel
fair to me.
I may.
I may feel like I've gotten waymore bad breaks than Sure, but
that's my life.
That's not life, right.
Yeah, life is fair, yeah,because I mean, I would define
(08:29):
fair as what happens to, in thebroad sense, what has happened
to every life across time andacross geography.
Yeah, whatever that is, that'sdefined as fair, yeah, and so,
however, my life deviates up ordown from that Right In the
short term, might seem betterthan fair or worse than fair,
but it's still fair.
(08:49):
And so, yeah, her title of lifeisn't fair.
It's like, yeah, but it is, andmaybe it doesn't feel fair for
you right now, and maybe itisn't fair for you right now,
but life is fair.
Yeah, your life is mid okay butlife, yeah, what?
what happens across everybodyover the long term?
(09:12):
Yeah, if that doesn't definefair, I don't know what does
right, well, that's yeah.
Dan (09:16):
I think it comes down to trying to change your perception
so you realize what you've, youknow what is is ideally what
things you have control over andwhat things you don't.
Charles (09:28):
Right and really her, her assessment of what things
you have control over and whatyou don't is one of the big
problems I had with this chap,which you know.
There are things that happen toyou as a result of luck, and
there are things that happen toyou as a result of luck, and
there are things that happenedto you.
I mean, really one could argueeverything that has happened to
(09:50):
you has been the result of luck,because none of us have chosen
our dna, none of us have chosenour parents, none of us have
chosen the time or the placethat we were born in.
All those things just happenedto us, yeah and and so, yes,
there are a list of cards thatwere dealt and that we can't
control, but there are also somecards, like when you're playing
(10:13):
gin rummy, you can say, okay, Igot this card, it's not going
to help me, so I'm going todiscard it and pick another card
instead and hope that it'sbetter.
You still have a choice.
Yes, there is some choice, eventhough you know one could argue
about libertarian free will,libertarian, not in the
political sense, libertarian asin you know, do you have the
ability to have had made adifferent choice if you could
(10:35):
wind the clock back and myattitude on that is definitely
no If I chose to wear this shirtthis morning, if I could run
back the clock of the universe,where every particle was in the
exact same position as it waswhen I chose this shirt.
Dan (10:49):
Yeah.
Charles (10:50):
I wouldn't be able to say no, I'm going to wear the
red shirt instead.
Dan (10:53):
Right.
Charles (10:53):
Because that would include every particle of every
neuron in my brain.
I chose this because I chose it, and if I could go back in time
, I couldn't change anything.
Right, that's the way I see theuniverse and the way reality
works.
Yeah, if you literally raneverything back to, because I
don't believe that there'ssomething in my head, ectoplasm
or a soul that would give me theability to, outside of space
(11:18):
and time, make other choices.
Dan (11:22):
I don't believe that that level of magic exists in my head
.
The way I look at it is youmade the appropriate choice with
the information you had at thetime.
Charles (11:28):
Right.
So if I had the exact sameinformation.
Dan (11:29):
You're gonna make the same choice at the exact same time.
I'm gonna make the exact samechoice.
Charles (11:32):
That makes sense to me, absolutely.
So this idea that, oh, I couldhave done otherwise if I.
Dan (11:37):
Yeah, that's pointless.
Charles (11:39):
Yeah, it's.
Can quantum leap back into yourbody with all the knowledge
that you currently have?
Maybe you could make adifferent choice.
Dan (11:45):
So that's exactly right, you can't make a different
choice.
People thought experimentally.
Because you don't have that newinformation right.
It's like hindsight is 20-20.
Exactly yeah.
Charles (11:54):
Monday morning quarterback no-transcript that
their best maker.
Right again, you do the samething.
(12:15):
Because how could you doanything else?
Yeah, there's nothing else inthere, right?
And even if you believe in thesoul, the spirit, the whatever,
the great point that I've heardpeople make is well, you didn't
architect that soul or thatspirit before you were born.
You didn't create that on yourown.
If it exists, it got handed toyou by a God who designed it for
you.
So it's still not under yourcontrol, right?
(12:37):
It's still not something thatyou can tweak and go back in
time and change who you are.
Dan (12:41):
You know, and I think, whether we have control or not,
I don't think that's the issue.
I think it's just making surethat we I think we crave that
feeling that we have some sortof control.
Or ability to make decisionsRight, Right it's, it's.
We're not told by an obviousexternal force that you have to
do this Right.
(13:01):
A lot of us.
Charles (13:02):
Not an obvious one, certainly, right.
And so what we can choose is wecan make some choices as far as
what kind of learningexperience we're exposed to,
what kind of podcasts we listento, what kind of books we read
and how we're willing to letthat affect our future decisions
.
Right, I think there is somechoice to be made with that.
And so she mentions some likewhether or not you're born into
(13:26):
wealth.
You don't control that, agreed,you don't control whether
you're born rich or not.
You can have some control overwhether you die rich or not,
because that comes down to a lotof the choices you make.
Not completely.
Again, if you happen to be borna little girl in 14th century
Afghanistan, you're probably notgoing to die wealthy, right,
(13:47):
and there's not all the optimaldecisions you could make in that
setting are still not going tolead to you dying wealthy.
Dan (13:53):
Mm-hmm.
Charles (13:53):
You can.
You will be born with somenatural advantages or
disadvantages.
How smart you are, how tall youare, how your metabolism
functions, the level of hand-eyecoordination, a lot of that
stuff.
You can figure out ways tomaximize the strength and
minimize the weaknesses, butthere's going to be a certain
level of those things thatyou're born with and you're
(14:15):
going to be.
How much you can improve isgoing to be limited.
Opportunities are not equallydistributed.
We talked about that.
You know already with theexample of when and where you're
born, what family you're borninto, what religion you're born
into.
That's going to certainly havesome impacts for how, how much
succeeding you can expect inyour life.
So your starting point can bedramatically different from
someone else's.
But what I didn't like aboutthis book, this chapter, is some
(14:41):
of the tools that she wasseemingly giving to people to
feel better about their lot inlife.
She says at one point ifthere's something about your
life that you're unhappy with oris disappointing you, if you
can't change it in the next 30seconds, then it's out of your
control.
Dan (15:00):
Yeah, that's not a good message.
Charles (15:02):
That's terrible.
It's not true, number one.
And it's not a good message.
That's terrible.
Yeah, it's not true.
Number one, right.
And it's not a good thing totell people number two yeah,
because most significant thingsthat I'd like to improve about
my life I am powerless to changein the next 30 seconds.
Dan (15:14):
It's not a good tool, because it's not being clear
about what you can control andwhat you can't control.
It's just, oh, if you can'tchange it in 30 seconds, well
that's, that's.
Charles (15:27):
Yeah, it's a useless tool at that point, right, I
just can't, you're right.
Can't you know how I height in30?
The next 30 seconds?
Okay, so that I can't change myheight in the next 30 years,
right.
But if you know, if I'm tiredof being out of breath when I
carry my groceries in from thecar, right, I can't change
anything about that in the next30 seconds, nope.
But in the next 30 days, maybein the next 30 months, 30 weeks,
(15:49):
absolutely, I can change that,yeah, and so, yeah, I, I don't,
really, I don't think she did agood enough job of fleshing out
what she meant by this yeah, andgiving us a tool to figure out
what very quickly what'scontrollable, what's not
controlled.
Great point and I think I thinkthe problem that most of us and
when I say us, I include you andme in this- how dare you?
(16:11):
Most of us run into is we don'thave an objective handle on
what's changeable and what's notchangeable, or how much time
and effort the changeable thingswill take to actually change.
Yeah, I think that.
Second point.
I thinkony robbins saidsomething about that where and I
think I've heard him say it onseveral occasions something
along the lines of peopleoverestimate what they can
(16:34):
change in a year andunderestimate what they can
change in 10 years.
Right, and he does say that alot yeah and I think I'm like,
yeah, I definitely I do that too.
I think, oh, by the end thisyear I'm going to accomplish all
these things, and some of themI get done and many of them I
don't.
But if you had a plan where youset yourself up for I'm going
to work on this for the next 10years, you could probably get
(16:56):
done a lot more.
It's just you got to wake upday in and day out and work that
plan, and that's where it'shard for a lot of us to do that.
Dan (17:03):
Absolutely.
And then, as soon as I know I'mguilty of this as soon as you
start to run into somethingthat's a little bit difficult,
if you don't have a reallystrong why in terms of why
you're doing this, you're goingto let it stop you and derail
you, so you're going tooverestimate how much more
difficult something is than itactually is.
Charles (17:26):
And then you end up just not doing anything.
Yeah, and you and I also, Imean we've we've had on this
with you know, with our ownfitness and our and our show,
and all the thing is when, whenyou don't see the improvements
fast enough, you think, okay,well, the answer is I've got to
change the plan.
I got to switch up the plans.
I got to.
I got to change the workout, Igot to change the diet, I got to
change the fill in the blank,because you know what was
originally a we're going to do,we're going to implement this
(17:47):
one year plan.
It's like, okay, well, itdidn't work after a month.
So now I got to change up theplan.
Yeah, and that's that's the,that's very human of people to
do, or maybe it's it's moreprimate of humans to do than it
is human, because, yeah, thedelayed gratification of
(18:08):
long-term work and long-termresults is harder for some of us
than others.
Dan (18:13):
Yeah, I've heard you should try to fall in love with,
instead of the outcome goal, isthe process goal of falling in
love with, you know, doing thatprocess and being consistent
with it.
But that's not sexy, that's notexciting.
So that's my challenge is howdo I get excited about getting
consistent with something overand over and over again, like
(18:34):
where's like the payoff and thereward, in that you have to
really love whatever it is thatyou're doing, I think, in order
to get that?
You know, like some people,they fall in love with running
and they get that runner's highand and you know, they're not
necessarily you know yeah, it'snot for everybody.
Charles (18:48):
I've never raised a runner's side that felt as good
as running feels bad, right yeahand that's the thing.
Dan (18:53):
A lot of people it's the same thing.
They're not into it, but youknow they just they love that
process.
Yes, they, you know a lot oftimes the one races and
marathons.
A lot of them don't, but theylove the process of running and
so it's easy to be consistentwith it.
And I think that's the key isreally figuring out what you
love.
Charles (19:10):
Yeah, and that is the key.
Dan (19:13):
But, yeah, how do you find a process that you love compared
to that's going to lead youultimately, as a side effect,
the outcome that you're lookingfor.
Charles (19:21):
Yeah, that's.
That's a challenge.
I've yet to find a any of theprocesses that lead to any of my
long-term goals.
Dan (19:28):
Yeah.
Charles (19:29):
It's like some.
Sometimes I just grin and bearit and just do it anyway.
I mean the process of puttingone foot in front of the other
on a long mountain hike.
I don't love that process, butit's like I just for me.
All I have to do is love itenough to get halfway out in the
middle of nowhere, and then Ihave no choice but to walk back.
Dan (19:49):
Yeah, so but along the way, you also make it more enjoyable
.
You're like listening to booksor podcasts or whatever.
That is Right.
So you're yeah, you'reamplifying the enjoyment of the
actual process.
Charles (19:59):
Yeah, but it really yeah.
For me it really does come downto what do they call that?
Like level two fun or whatever,where it's like you're not
going to enjoy this in themoment, you're only going to
enjoy this by looking back on it.
Like a roller coaster is levelone fun where it's fun in the in
the moment, but you never lookback on it and say, man, I wish
I would.
I long for the days three yearsago when I was on that roller
coaster.
(20:19):
Nobody does that, right?
But yeah with me, like, if I'mdoing a 20 mile hike, it really
does need to do is staymotivated enough to get out 10
miles away from home and thenthe second half of the hike
takes care of itself.
Right, I either die in thewoods or I walk back and get in
my car.
There's your motivation, right,exactly like motivation doesn't
factor into it, right, it's?
(20:40):
Yeah, all you have to domotivation to live.
All you have to do is gethalfway done with any hike.
If you're out and back hikefair.
All you have to do is gethalfway done and then you'll
figure out a way to get the restof the way done.
It's easy.
She talks a couple of storiesin here.
You remember the story abouther friend who was renovating
the dream home and all the Iguess jealousy or I guess she
(21:03):
didn't really highlight thejealousy as much.
She just felt bad about herselfthat her friend had this amazing
house that her kids wanted tohang out in.
Dan (21:11):
I mean they had queen-sized bunk beds.
I was pretty impressive.
Charles (21:15):
I wish I had that.
I wouldn't even know where togo buy a queen-sized bunk bed.
Dan (21:20):
That's custom baby, I'm sure Exactly.
And then I'm like, why not king?
Like why were they cheaping out?
Charles (21:25):
Why would you stop at queen right?
The end of the story that I washoping for, which I didn't
really think.
Even if she did do this, sheprobably wouldn't put in the
book.
What I would have foundfulfilling is the end of the
story is okay.
I sold my first book the fiveminute or five second or
whatever horseshit that is and Imade a second roll yes, and I
made a bajillion dollars off ofit.
(21:47):
So I bought my neighbor's house.
I bought their dream house andI demolished it.
Now it's just an empty lot thatI can look at.
That's what would have done itfor me.
Dan (21:56):
That's what I would, that would have got all right I like
this lady.
Charles (21:59):
All right, that's where I would have been a little.
Now I get mel robbins.
She understands me and Iunderstand her.
I bought my friend's dreamhouse, I demolished it and I
turned it into a lawn and I justgo look at it it's one of those
where she flicks a cigarette.
It's just walking away, walkingaway yeah, blows up, yeah, like
a michael bain movie.
Yeah, yeah, but no, she didn'tdo that.
She didn't make any referenceto building a bigger house or
(22:22):
having her friend's housedestroyed or anything.
Yeah, so I don't get it.
Um, here she let's see.
70 of people experiencenegative self-comparison from
social media use.
77, that feels a little low.
Dan (22:36):
Yeah, I think anybody who gets on social media at some
point can feel somewhat I can'tthink of a time where I've
specifically felt a negativeself-comparison.
Charles (22:46):
Maybe I have I don't know, I'm not.
It's not ringing a bell, butI'm sure I've, I'm sure I've
done that Comparison activatesbrain stress responses that are
similar to physical pain I don'tknow about that I mean, I don't
remember.
I again, I don't remembergetting that upset by.
I guess it could.
I mean, I guess if you're theyhave something, you have a
really strong reaction.
(23:07):
So I don't know, I'm trying tofind another piece of this
chapter that really resonatedwith me or made me angry.
I don't know.
I'm trying to find anotherpiece of this chapter that
really resonated with me or mademe angry, I don't know.
I we talked about it before westarted recording the your life
yes, life isn't fair chapter.
And the next chapter, how tomake comparison to your teacher
it feels like they're they'reopposite is really getting the
shitty end of the stick from hermom in this book.
(23:28):
Mm-hmm.
The stuff she says about herdaughter that I think she thinks
is being helpful or being kindis really not.
Dan (23:57):
I'd be curious to hear that conversation behind the scenes
when they're writing this bookbetween the two of them about
that information.
Charles (24:03):
I mean the question is, is the daughter even bringing
up to her mother like, hey, like, does the daughter realize that
this is a shitty way to betalked about in a book that's
going to be read by hundreds ofthousands of people?
And if she does realize it, isshe saying something to her
mother about it?
I mean, yeah, it's not my jobto say mel robbins did her
(24:24):
daughter dirty, but it kind ofis my job to say that because I
would not appreciate beingtalked about the way that she
talks about her oldest daughterwell, I think what, yeah, to
kind of highlight what you'retalking about is the comparison
between her two daughters.
Yeah, kendall and sawyer.
So here's the older one,kendall's a younger one.
Kendall is I mean inquote-unquote better shape.
(24:45):
However, mel decides to definethat uh has a beautiful singing
voice, is more athletic, has afast metabolism, and Sawyer
doesn't have those things.
And, as Mel describes it,sawyer's constantly complaining
or compares, comparing herselfto her younger sister and
feeling awful about it.
And the way Mel Robbins is likeyeah, sawyer got a bad hand of
(25:09):
cards dealt to her, I was likewe're making that determination
based on these four areas thatyou've cited in the book, that
her set of cards or her hand ofcards is not as good.
Yeah, it's like there's got tobe things about this girl that
are positive that you're nottalking about in this book and
you're just making ageneralization that, yeah, she
(25:32):
didn't get as good of a life asyour younger daughter because
your younger daughter isskinnier.
Dan (25:38):
Essentially, yes, there's a nicer body by current standards
the feeling that I got wasthese were things that were
important to sawyer, because shewas the one saying I don't fit
in any of kendall's clothes.
She fits in all of mine.
And it sounds like there mighthave been some sort of singing
you know issue or something,whatever it is.
But it sounds like, yeah, thosecards are the ones that were
(25:59):
important to Sawyer, even thoughshe might be smarter, funnier,
more successful with her career,whatever that is.
But maybe that's just not asimportant to her as those other
four cards.
I don't know, yeah, but not asimportant to her as those other
four cards.
I don't know, yeah, but becausewe all have.
We all have the things that likeyou do right that are like well
, this is important to me andyou're like but you're this and
you're that and you're done.
And you're just like, well,yeah, okay, and ironically it's
(26:22):
probably because you know, thosethings are the things that come
easy to us, so, for whateverreason, we kind of disvalue them
yeah, I, I just feel likehaving value having your mom
talk about it in those terms,though it has.
Charles (26:35):
Just, I mean, if I had a daughter that had concerns
about her athletic ability, herweight, her metabolism, her
singing voice, you know, yes, Iwould be honest with her about
yeah, okay, you're gonna yougoing to have to work harder at
those things than your sisterdoes, or harder than you feel is
(26:55):
fair for you to have to work ifyou want the results that your
sister had and I think that'sthe part that was missing out of
this chapter was that you canchange those things and but you
need to work.
Dan (27:05):
you might need to work harder than what you see your
sister working if she didn'treally get into right the let me
part of this whole.
Charles (27:12):
yeah, and that's an area and that feels unfair.
I mean the to.
If you want the same thing,that somebody else has, making
peace with the fact that you'llhave to work harder for it than
they do.
Yes, that does feel unfair inthe moment and I get that.
Yeah, but that doesn't mean youcan't do it and that doesn't
mean that it might not be worthdoing, but it also doesn't mean
(27:33):
you're a better or worse personthan them either, and that's the
just the language that she usedtalking about Sawyer getting
dealt a worse hand, like, listen, when it comes to these
specific concerns that you have,yes, you don't have the natural
ability that your sister wasborn, so you're going to have to
work harder to have things thatare comparable to her.
(27:55):
Yeah, and yeah, I get thatdoesn't feel great, but that's
okay and those may not be thingsthat you need.
Anyway, the way you're thinkingabout what your life would be
like if you had her metabolismor her singing voice, there's a
good chance that you don'treally have a good handle on
that.
You feel like your life wouldbe better if you were skinnier
(28:15):
and a better singer, but whatare the things that you're
hoping that that life of abetter singer would actually
deliver for you.
Like what are the feelings thatyou think you would have if you
could sing like your sistersing?
Let's talk about what thosethings are and let's talk about
how you get those things orthose feelings without having to
kill yourself, to go to thevoice lessons or starving
(28:39):
yourself or whatever.
It's.
Just there seems to be, yeah, alot of root causes that mel
robbins just either doesn'tperceive of or doesn't spend
time talking about in this book,like okay, that's, that's the
way your life is right now, butwhy is your life that way and
why does it matter to you?
Why does that feel like lacking?
Dan (28:59):
Yeah.
Charles (29:00):
So yeah, with with these two chapters nine and 10,
and then also an 11 and 12,which we talked about a little
bit off air as well.
She's a smart lady, but itfeels to me like she's just
missing the point on a lot ofstuff for somebody who is
selling this many books andinfluencing this many people.
I'm picking up on a lot ofareas where I feel like she's
(29:21):
clueless.
Dan (29:23):
Yeah, I think she starts to get into people taking
responsibility for theirposition in the next chapter a
little bit in terms of how tomake comparison, your teacher
right.
So I think the my, my beliefwas that, you know, chapter nine
is really to kind of meetpeople where they are, where
they're feeling like powerless,that life is unfair.
(29:46):
And then my, the way I'mthinking about it is, once she
has their attention in the nextchapter, she says okay, take
some of that energy, that anger,that jealousy, whatever that is
, and start to try to dosomething with it.
Charles (30:04):
Yeah, and I don't feel like I mean in chapter 10, I
feel like she talked aboutjealousy in way more positive
terms than it deserves to betalked about.
I mean, I think that there is anegative connotation to jealousy
, that it's just bad, and shewas talking about it being a
motive.
(30:25):
It was like there's nothingwrong with noticing the
difference between who you areand who someone else is.
There's nothing wrong noticingwhat they have and what you
don't have, but just the thelanguage of jealousy that she's
using just does not feel helpfulto me.
Dan (30:43):
Yeah, so I think Brene Brown talked about the
difference between jealousy andenvy and, to be honest with you,
I forget exactly what thenuance is.
Charles (30:57):
Let's see.
Jealousy and envy are oftenused interchangeably in casual
speech, but refer to distinctemotional experience.
Envy is the painful feeling youget when someone else has
something that you want.
Let's see what, uh whatjealousy.
Dan (31:10):
Jealousy is the fear that something you already have will
be taken away oh, so she'stalking about envy here, not
even jealousy, because what, howelse?
What's gonna be taken away fromyou?
Yes, other than the fear thatbecause so-and-so did something
before you did.
So I think she was talkingabout somebody had an interior
(31:30):
design business, and I don'tknow if that was this chapter or
the next one.
I think you're might be right,and she was talking about you
know, putting it out online andright before she did oh, the
crappy website.
Charles (31:45):
Compared to the other person who just got started,
they had a better website.
Dan (31:48):
Exactly, and it's because she was like dragging her feet,
never actually did the websiteRight, and so now she was yeah,
that's definitely envy.
Charles (31:55):
That's not jealousy.
Jealousy is yeah.
And in most cases we think ofjealousy when it comes to a
relationship or a partner.
I've got this partner or thisrelationship and I'm worried
that somebody else is gonna takeit away from me or I'm going to
lose it.
So I'm jealous, yeah, when Isee my partner talking to some
guy at work or something.
Dan (32:13):
Yeah, part of that too was I think it was a woman in her
neighborhood and so all theneighbors were talking about it.
So I'm just wondering if thatteeters on some jealousy there
because thinking, oh hey, I'mlosing these contacts, I'm not
going to have this network ofpeople referring me because now
(32:33):
she did it before I did, kind ofthing yeah so, but the more I
think about it, the lessjealousy really applies in that
case or in the rest of thischapter.
Charles (32:43):
Like, yeah, jealousy is a motivator is like all jealous
based on this.
Dan (32:48):
All jealousy can be is I've got something and I'm afraid
I'm going to lose it so what Ithink a lot of us do is we
become, we start out envious andthen that turns into jealousy,
because I sometimes I know Ifeel, hey, oh, this person did
this amazing thing.
Well, it's already been donebefore, so so why bother?
Kind of thing.
And to me that's like it's ajealousy, almost like all right,
(33:10):
well, it's been taken away fromme because even though in
reality that's not the case andI never had it in my mind, it's
there's a limited supply of itand this other person did it
first, and now there's nothingleft for me.
Charles (33:23):
Yeah, and.
Dan (33:25):
Or it's going to be more difficult for me.
Charles (33:27):
Yeah, it's.
It's a weird word game tryingto spin jealousy or envy into a
positive motivation to get offyour butt and do something.
I just don't.
I don't see how she can reallypull that off with people.
It's like I would say step oneis you need to turn your back on
both jealousy and envy beforeyou can really pull that off
with people.
It's like I would say step oneis you need to turn your back on
both jealousy and envy beforeyou can do anything positive for
(33:52):
yourself or anybody else.
Yeah, I mean, I find you knowwhen.
Look, I don't have anyaspirations to become a model or
an NBA basketball player,anything that I want to
accomplish in life.
I've got the natural tools andability to pull off, and so you
know I don't feel like I'mbanging my head against my
(34:15):
whatever my ceiling is for myability to be a fill in the
blank Again, I'm never going to,no matter how hard I work, I'm
not going to make it to the NBA.
And no matter how hard I work,no matter how hard I work, I'm
not going to make it to the NBA.
And no matter how hard I work,I'm not going to probably become
, you know, a fashion model or aphysical fitness influencer.
It's just not.
It's just none of the cards.
(34:35):
But the things I do want to do,I can do, and I find the reason
that I'm not already doing thosethings is one of two things
either I don't know enough or Idon't care enough.
And I really think, for mostpeople, the things you want out
of life, you don't have thembecause you don't know enough or
you don't care enough, andthose are some pretty easy
(34:55):
levers to adjust if you want to.
Right, I mean, the caring aboutit is probably the harder of
the two, because that factorsinto motivation, inspiration,
adherence, all those things thatyou know you and I talk about
all the time, that are.
You can't just snap yourfingers and decide to adhere to
the plan you've made foryourself, whether that's your
(35:18):
professional development in yourcareer or your health and
fitness goals, or you're wantinghow much money you wanted to
save for your retirement.
You can't just very easily wakeup one day and say I am going
to a hundred percent adhere tothis plan that I came up with,
because it's hard to do that.
But the knowledge part is a loteasier, I find.
(35:39):
If you care enough, you'll findthe knowledge that you need to
to succeed.
And so really, the, themotivation, inspiration, the you
know getting doing the work tofigure out what your why is and
then deciding, you know nottricking yourself into thinking
you care about something enoughto actually do the hard work
that it takes to get that thingdone, which you know I I run
into that myself all the time,like there are things that I
(36:02):
think matter enough to me to dothe hard work to get it done,
yeah.
But then I get in the middle ofit it was like, oh, this is a
little bit more work than thisis more work.
The workout weighs themotivation or the inspiration,
or the commitment, or whateverit's like.
It's like, yeah, I, I enjoytalking about wanting to do this
and I enjoy talking aboutwanting to have this final
result, but waking up and doingthe things that gets it for me
(36:26):
on days that I don't feel likeit.
I don't care that much, I careslightly less than that.
Dan (36:30):
Yeah, I think that's where it's good to have some sort of
outside advice in some form,because I know for me I go to,
and you do this too is, if I'mnot doing it this way, I'm never
going to get there.
So, instead of trying to makeit easier and continuing on
doing it, we'd just be like we'dkind of wipe our hands where
(36:51):
they'd be like well, I'm nevergoing to get there because I
feel like this is the only wayto get there.
Right, yeah, and this is my onlyoption, and sometimes you need
that outside advice to say no,no, no, no, it can be done.
Doing it this way, that way orin an easier way than what
you're currently doing, it Right.
And the other part is you'vegot to believe that device.
(37:11):
You got to believe that they'reactually, you know that they're
knowledgeable, that they'regiving you actual good
information.
So I think a lot of times formyself anyway, that's all I
don't do, that I am rigid withthe things that I'm doing and
thinking times for myself,anyway, that's all I don't do,
that I am rigid with the thingsthat I'm doing and thinking,
okay, well, why bother if it's,if it's not, if I'm not working
(37:31):
out five days a week, I'm nevergoing to get in the shape that I
want to get into, and that'sthat's.
Until I heard Dr Mike talkingabout it on podcasts.
Whatever you know three or fourtimes, you know and you'll
absolutely get there.
And whatever you know three orfour times, you know and you'll
absolutely get there.
And then, once you hear like anexpert talking about it, you're
like, okay, I can dial it backand then stay more consistent
with it and actually start toenjoy this a little bit more, or
(37:53):
I'm at least willing toexperiment and give that a shot
for a while, because this personthat I respect, with some
information that he's got, sayshere's another way of
approaching it.
Charles (38:04):
When it comes to certain things about saving
money or progressing in yourcareer or improving your health
and fitness, when you're anabsolute novice and you're just
starting out, you can just liveby principles and see huge
benefit right off the bat.
But then when you get a littlebit more sophisticated and
(38:24):
you're trying to get a littlebit more dialed in and getting
uncommon results like you'retrying to, you know, get a
portfolio balance or a body thatmost people never achieve then
you know you do have to startputting in that you put in 20%
of the work to get 80% of theresults, but then if you want
that other 20%, you got to do80% of the work.
(38:46):
And that's where a lot ofpeople, myself included, will
just check out and say okay,because there's things, there's
trade-offs, good enough.
Dan (38:53):
Right, cause there's trade-offs, trading off things
that you really love and enjoyand spend time doing for, for
taking up the extra effort ofwhatever that is you're trying
to accomplish.
Charles (39:03):
Yeah, yeah, effort of whatever that is you're trying
to accomplish, yeah, yeah, toget those uncommon results.
You're going to have to put anuncommon effort where to get
common results, common effortsenough, and for some people
that's good enough.
I mean, if I was, I've been 40,50 pounds heavier than I am
right now, and to get down towhere I am now in the moment, I
thought, boy, this is hard, thisis difficult, and now I'm
(39:25):
trying to drop 10 more pounds.
It's like, oh no, I didn'trealize how easy the last 40 was
compared to the next 10.
Dan (39:32):
But your previous experience was not anything
difficult.
Charles (39:35):
No, you were eating everything you enjoyed.
Right In the moment it feltdifficult, but now looking back
I was like, oh, that was easy.
Yes, what am I talking about?
Dan (39:43):
If I knew then what I know.
Charles (39:45):
Getting up and going for an hour long walk in the
morning and then just not eatingsugar or grain felt like I was
torturing myself back then.
But now it's like oh, that was,that was easy, that was nothing
.
Those are things I could justflip a switch and do whenever I
want to now, right.
But it doesn't really make muchof a difference to me now
because I don't have as muchwork to do, right?
So that's where we so envy is Iwant something other people
(40:08):
have.
Jealousy is I have things thatI'm scared are going to get
taken away.
And again, I don't see.
I don't see a way that spendingyour time in either of those
States is going to prompt you tomake your life better or prompt
you to be nice to be aroundeither.
Yeah, so yeah, I find I findher her language about uh, I
(40:31):
mean comparison.
I'm okay with the wordcomparison and I'm okay with the
idea that you can usecomparison to torture yourself
or you can use comparison toteach yourself.
A hundred percent Love that.
But when she uses the wordjealousy in the way that she
uses it, I just I don't see it.
Dan (40:45):
Yeah, I think the issue too is I don't think she offers
enough support in terms ofgetting us to change those
feelings of envy and jealousyinto comparison as a motivating
teaching tool, right?
So basically, one of the thingsshe said is you're not
(41:06):
competing against other peoplein life.
You're playing with them inlife and look at them as your
teacher, right?
So that when they're doingsomething better than you, don't
look at it as being envious orjealous but say hey, this person
figured something out before meand now I can learn from that
and that can be a shortcut foryou to get to where you want to
(41:28):
be.
But she doesn't really get intohow to make that mind shift and
keep it consistent enough sothat you're willing to continue
taking action and follow through.
Charles (41:41):
Yeah, I think the problem that a lot of people run
into is thinking that, oh well,the thing I want to do, there's
too many people doing it and soI missed my chance.
I missed my opportunity andit's like, in reality, most of
the people that are doing thething you want to do you've
never seen or heard of becausethey suck, and most of the
(42:01):
people doing the thing you wantto do are failing at it.
Most of the people doing thething you want to do are failing
at it.
There, there are slotsavailable at the top and new
slots can be added all the time.
You know this idea.
There's already a hundredpeople that are a arts and
crafts influencer on instagram.
So I missed my chance.
It's like you didn't.
If you're good at it and youstick to it and you know and you
(42:23):
care at a level other peopledon't care about yeah, and you
learn care at a level otherpeople don't care about.
Yeah, and you learn things at alevel other people aren't
learning and you're consistentand you stick with it, then yeah
, you can.
You can do that thing thatother people are already doing
and you don't have to pull oneof them down to give you a spot.
Dan (42:40):
The other thing too is you are using your reticular
activating system where you arelooking for things that you tell
yourself are important If youwant to be X like underwater
basket weaver type person, andyou're going to be searching for
other big named underwaterbasket weavers who have been
(43:03):
doing this for years and yearsand years.
So you're literally surroundingyourself and populating all the
things around you, or mostthings around you with this,
with these people who arealready where you want to be.
So now your perspective is hey,there's so many people out
there doing that Meanwhilepeople who are, like, casually
looking for somebody inunderwater basket weaving.
(43:24):
They don't see them all overthe place and they just might
run into you first, right, andlike the way you resonate with
them, your message, the way youspeak, all of those things.
So you are really operatingfrom a perspective of where you
are thinking.
Yeah, there are so many ofthese people because that's
what's important to you, you andyour.
(43:46):
The all the algorithms onsocial media and online, they
all you know they track youbetween the cookies and
everything else, and they willgive you the information that
you're searching for.
So, yes, I'm sure you'researching for things related to
underwater basket weaving, butso you're now surrounded in
thinking hey, it's everywhere,it's been done, there's no place
for me.
Charles (44:06):
Yeah, and one of the points that she makes in the, as
far as the practicalapplications that she discusses,
is look at other people in thefield that you want to succeed
in and look at it with a morecritical eye of, I mean, even
somebody who's really good.
It's still possible to look atsomething they've done and think
I could have done that a littlebit different and I think it
(44:28):
might've been better, and it'squite possible that you're right
about that.
Dan (44:32):
Like and now, that's your flavor right.
Charles (44:34):
Exactly, that's your take, that's your difference.
You figure out.
Oh okay, if I was, if I wasdoing something like this, I
would do it a little bitdifferent, and I guarantee
there's some people out therethat your way would be would
resonate with more than theirway.
Yeah, and so just put yourselfout there and try it, and the
celebrating progress is thetough part too, where you know
(44:55):
it's, it's hard to do.
That.
If I had it to do over again, Ido the exact same thing, cause
I know that most of the time,making that, taking that choice
and making that leap will workout for me.
Even though it didn't work outthis time, I still made the
right call, and that's hard to,that's hard to remember in the
immediate aftermath of a lessthan optimal result yeah, we're
(45:15):
pre-wired to remember the stingsmore than the victories.
So yeah, yeah and we're morepre-wired to to unfairly wait
the recent past as opposed toall of our other life experience
, and they'd be telling ussomething else.
Dan (45:28):
Yeah, I like it.
Charles (45:29):
The thing that just happens feels so much more real
to me than everything else I'velearned up to this point.
Dan (45:35):
That's a good point yeah.
That's going to have.
That's going to be moredefinitely be weighted more.
Charles (45:40):
Yeah, but like you said , we and we tend to do that more
with the losses than the wins,like you know, even if we just
had a big success in our recentpast.
Yeah, it worked out this time,but what about next time?
Dan (45:53):
Another reason to track things and and and look be able
to look back.
Charles (45:56):
Yeah, even if that track is just journaling.
Yeah, all right, I think we canstop there.
So chapters nine and 10, not abig fan, and I stop there.
So chapters 9 and 10 not a bigfan, and I listened to 10 and 11
on the way, or no, 11 and 12 onthe way over, where we'll
discuss that next time about, um, adult friendships and why they
come and go or why they maycrest and wane, and uh, yeah, I
(46:23):
got a lot to say about her ideaswhen it comes to friendships.
Okay, if you knew herpersonally, do you think you'd
be friends with her?
Probably Not me, man.
Yeah, I would resist the urgeto talk crap about her behind
her back, I think, cause Igenerally I try not to do that
about people.
Yeah, but I would just be likeman this oh, you're hanging out
(46:45):
with Melonite.
You guys have fun, I'm out, nothanks.
Dan (46:48):
I like her because she she gets to the psychology of a lot
of things and tries to figureout, like, why people do things.
So it'd be interestingconversation, except for herself
.
Charles (46:59):
She talks about herself , she does.
I think she when she talksabout the way that she works I
don't know, man, she strikes meas, again, she's a smart person
and I think there are goodthings in this book, there's
things to learn.
But, man, on my list of peoplethat are just exhausting to be
around, the people who are notself-aware but think they are,
(47:23):
are really close to the top ofthat list and that's the
category I put her in.
She thinks she's self-aware butthink they are, are really
close to the top of that listand that's the category I put
her in.
She thinks she's self-aware butshe is not.
The stuff coming out of hermouth and her, her not knowing
what she sounds like to at leastme.
I mean, maybe other peopledon't don't see it and maybe
that's because I'm notself-aware, but some of the
stuff she says it, but some ofthe stuff she says it just
(47:44):
grades on me.
It's like you're cause I findthat she is.
She's conflicting herself a lotin this book where she's talking
about the way she works and theway the world works, and then
it's like, yeah, but the wayyou're telling people to handle
that situation goes exactlyagainst what you're what you're
saying a chapter ago and it'sdriving me crazy.
So I don't know.
We'll see, We'll see how uh, Iknow how 11 and 12 go.
(48:09):
We'll see how the chaptersafter that go.
Maybe she'll win me back again,Cause we'll see.
It was, was it seven, that Ireally liked?
I think it was seven and eightthat I I liked.
Maybe, and nine and 10, she lostme again.
So we'll see what's next.
All we'll see what's next, allright, thanks, dan.
We'll talk to you next time,all right, thanks so much for
sticking with us for the entireepisode.
We certainly appreciate it.
Next time We'll continue ourseries on the let them theory as
(48:30):
we dive into chapters 11 and 12, which will include exploring
the complexities of adultfriendship and why some of them
naturally fade until next time.
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