The White Lotus: Testosterone in Paradise

In this kickoff to our series on The White Lotus Season 3, we dive headfirst into the tangled world of masculinity on vacation. From Saxon’s hypersexual posturing to the simmering tension between brothers, fathers, and friend-zoned security guards, we unpack how manhood is performed, distorted, and quietly unraveling at a luxury resort in Thailand. 

Is Patrick Schwarzenegger’s character cosplaying as an alpha? Why is everyone either flexing or imploding? And what does “power” even mean when everyone’s rich, hot, and hiding something? 

We’re not recapping. We’re dissecting the gender dynamics, status games, and inner lives of men pretending not to be insecure. Welcome to The White Lotus: Testosterone in Paradise.

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Episode Transcript

Charles (00:00):
Saxon Patrick Schwarzenegger's character,
though there's some interestingstuff going on with him, he does
seem to be playing a characterI mean not only for the TV show,
but this character seems to beplaying a character Like being
hypersexual, hypermasculine,hypersuccessful.
Seems like it's reallyimportant to him.

(00:21):
Welcome to the MindfullyMasculine Podcast.
This is Charles Okay.
This episode starts a newseries for Dan and I, like it's
really important to him.
Welcome to the MindfullyMasculine Podcast.
This is Charles Okay.
This episode starts a newseries for Dan and I.
We're going to take a deep lookat masculinity through the lens
of an HBO show, the White Lotusseason three.
This isn't a recap show.
We're not here to speculate onplot twists or point out Easter
eggs.
Instead, we're using eachepisode as a starting point to

(00:42):
look at how masculinity playsout in relationships, in silence
, in conflict and in the momentsthat push the characters to
grow.
White Lotus has always been ashow about really privilege and
identity, but in this season,masculinity really takes the
center stage.
These male characters areunraveling, posing, seeking and

(01:02):
sometimes disappearing intoroles they don't fully
understand, and we think thatsays a lot about modern manhood.
In today's episode, we'rediving into the season premiere
and how it sets the tone,introducing characters who were
either clinging to old scriptsor fumbling toward something new
.
We'll talk about repression,posturing, emotional inheritance
and what it means to be a manin a world that keeps shifting

(01:25):
under your feet.
We will be discussing the storyas it unfolds in each episode,
so if you don't want to bespoiled, pause this right now
and watch season three, episodeone same spirits, new forms.
Thanks and enjoy good morning,charles how you doing.
I'm doing well, dan thanks.
How are you?

Dan (01:42):
I am well have you have you Dan, thanks, how are you?

Charles (01:43):
I am well, have you?
Have you had enough of dating?
Essentials for men.

Dan (01:48):
No, no, I was waiting for let's go for chapter 11.

Charles (01:52):
Here we are.
No we I have had enough, sowe're going to stop for now.
We completed the first sectionof that book and I decided we
should take a break, and thebreak that I decided we should
take is we're going to talkabout masculinity and White
Lotus, season three.
I watched the first White Lotus.

(02:12):
I think I started watching ittoward the first season.
I mean, I started watching ittoward the end of the first
season where it was kind of oneof those things that people were
talking about a lot on socialmedia.
But I was just busy, I didn'tfeel like getting into a new
show, and the night before theend I'm pretty sure that one
released one per week.
I think they've done one perweek on all three seasons.

(02:33):
I think that's kind of hbomax's preferred way to do it,
which I can understand.
I, on one hand, I like whennetflix seems to be the only one
that's really just droppingeverything on day one, where the
other streaming services seemto have switched to more of a
one episode per week model.

Dan (02:53):
Well, let me just give you a little lowdown on some of the
more recent Netflix stuff.
For the dating shows yeah, I'mvery important.
Yeah, well, they'll do like twoor three and then they'll pause
for like a week.
So you get a little bit.
It's a hybrid, right.
You get a little bit of thatbinge, but then they hold off
and now it's like, oh, a realdramatic moment.
They cut it off and you knowthey're gonna do what.

(03:14):
So they'll do that for like twoor three times during the show
and then they'll wait anotherone.
For the finale.

Charles (03:19):
That would drive me crazy.
I like a more predictableschedule of either either every
Wednesday we drop a new episodeor we're going to drop them all
at once.
And here you go.

Dan (03:27):
I mean, I know some people refuse to watch anything until
it's all done because they knowthemselves.
Yeah, I can understand that.

Charles (03:33):
But yeah, so I watched the first season toward the end
of the first seasons when Istarted.
So I think probably it releasedbefore I started watching, like
all of them were probably out.
By the time I got to the lastone it had already aired the
second season I did not watchuntil really just a couple
months ago.
I just wasn't.

Dan (03:52):
Just like ran out of stuff to watch.
You're like all right, what's?

Charles (03:55):
left I was like, oh, I guess I didn't watch the.
I don't think people weretalking about the second season
as much buzz at least as far aswhat I saw on social media.
So I was less motivated, didn'tfeel, I didn't feel like I was
losing out on conversations andstuff with season two like I
would have been with season oneand then.
But the thing I noticed aboutseason two after I watched it I

(04:16):
was kind of bummed out.
I mean the way the charactersbehaved with each other.
Yeah, it was.
I did not find it verylife-affirming, particularly the
way the dudes behaved.

Dan (04:26):
Sure, and but that there's a taste of that.
In every season there is whereright it's, I think it's very
similar characters on both sides, both men and women, a lot of
stereotypes.

Charles (04:36):
They're kind of getting played out and seeing how they
interact with each other, and Ithink that's one of the reasons
why we like yeah, yeah, it'sinteresting the I mean I was
really into mad men and lookingback on mad men there were no,
like there were no heroes andthere were no really sympathetic
characters on mad men.
It's like roger come on, he wasroger was.
I was gonna say roger was theonly, I mean roger.
Roger was a bit of a shit butbut he was very authentic with

(05:01):
his shittiness.
Where don.
It's like there were coolthings about don, the way he was
constantly lying to his familyand lying to himself about who
he was.
I mean it was.

Dan (05:11):
But that's what kept me watching.
Yeah, it's just like holy Cause.
How far is he going to go,right?

Charles (05:15):
Yeah, when with Roger.
It was like okay, you prettymuch know what you're getting
with Roger and yeah, His lineswere yes and yeah, his lines
were, yes, I like Roger, butwith Don it was like man.
This is compelling, but it'salso like what a shitty person.
And so, yeah, that I thinkthat's what I felt about season
two, but so season three has notfinished airing yet.

(05:35):
I think the last episode thatcame out as of recording this
episode was episode seven.
So we're getting toward the end, but we are going to try to go,
we're going to cover, we'regoing to talk about the men, the
male characters of the show onan episode by episode basis, and
we're going to make an effortto not spoil anything about the

(05:56):
characters or about the plotpast the episode that we're
currently talking about.
So in this episode of our show,we're going to talk about
episode one, where everybody'sjust kind of getting introduced
and you're learning who thecharacters are going to be this
season, and we're going to makean effort not to say anything
about them.
That would spoil anything.
So if you're watching the show,as you're listening to the
episodes of our show, we're notgoing to ruin anything for you,

(06:19):
but if you do care about beingspoiled, watch episode one of
white lotus, season three,before you listen to this
podcast, because we are going totalk about some of the stuff
that happens and some of thecharacters.
So this one is set in thailand.
This is the only this is reallythe first one where I've looked
at it and I've thought, yeah, Idon't think I'd want to go
there is it the lizards fallingfrom the trees or the well that

(06:41):
happens in south florida.
I go to South Florida all thetime.
Hold it up in South Florida,the iguanas will start falling
out of the trees.
The first season was in Hawaii,then the second season was in
Sicily, which was like okay,that looks pretty cool.
I think I'd enjoy visiting thatone.
But of the parts of Asia thatI'd like to visit, it's not
really.
It just doesn't have a lot ofappeal to me.

(07:02):
Not really, it just doesn'thave a lot of appeal to me.
Have you ever been to that partof the world?
No, I've not, neither have I.
I've not been to Asia yet, butI'd love to go to Tokyo and
while I'm there, I'd like tohike Mount Fuji.
Singapore looks reallyinteresting to me.
I'd kind of like to visit thatyou have been to.
It's not the Far East, butyou've been to Dubai, right?

Dan (07:19):
I've been to Dubai and Armenia, so it's.
I mean, that's Asia, so it's,but it's not that far east.

Charles (07:26):
So yeah, it's not like China, japan, yeah.

Dan (07:29):
Or Australia.
I've never been all the wayover there.

Charles (07:31):
Either side I would love to go.
Yeah, I think the parts of Imean, I guess I would like to go
to like Fiji or something likethat.
That looks nice, so that wouldbe considered.
The is that the Far East, or isthat more, I don't know,
pacific Rim, I think it's.

Dan (07:46):
Pacific rings a bell.
When I hear Fiji, I'm alwaysthinking so.

Charles (07:50):
Yeah, but Thailand does not feel appealing to me, and
so this lot, I mean resort thatas nice as what they're showing.
I'm sure that.

Dan (07:57):
And do you like Thai?

Charles (07:59):
food.
I love Thai food, huh, yeah.

Dan (08:01):
Yeah, I mean that's the thing, or at least the American
version of it Exactly.
I was just about to ask is likedo we get, is that the same
food that just better over there, or is it kind of like Chinese
food, where it's like it'sAmericanized and that's not what
they're really eating overthere?
That's a good question.

Charles (08:13):
I might look.
I'm guessing it the corner.
I think I've been there, yeah,but is it really Thai food or is
it American Thai food?
That's my question.

Dan (08:28):
Well, that's the thing too.
It's also, but there areauthentic.
I mean, there's Thai peoplethat own and run the place and
are cooking.

Charles (08:40):
But again, they don't want Shanghai chai Kitsudor
Exactly, and so I wonder if.
But it's freaking delicious,yeah, no, it's really good.
I wonder if there is a, ifthere's a restaurant in our area
that has a reputation for beingthe most authentic Thai.

Dan (08:54):
Speaking of which, it's called Thai-licious.
So if you want to sponsor theshow, hit us up.

Charles (08:59):
Yeah, I've definitely eaten there before and it is
pretty good, it's pretty tasty.
So, anyway, I wanted to gothrough and talk about the guys
in this show and I'd like tofind out a little bit.
I think mike white is the nameof the creator, though I wonder
what his background is andbecause he definitely has an
interesting take on all of hischaracters.
And we're not going to ignorethe female characters because

(09:21):
they're not interested.
That group of three women thatare together on their friends
trip is really interested towatch their dynamics and how
they relate to each other.
But we're just not going tocover them.
We're going to, we're going tomainly focus on what the guys
are going through and howthey're reacting to their
circumstances, and I also likethe angle of how they feel like
they should behave when they arefar away from home.

(09:44):
And they're in this, they're inthis very different setting.
Does that give you license tobehave worse?
Does it inspire you behavebetter?
What effect does it have?
And I guess part of that is whythey're there too, where all of
the all the characters seem tohave an agenda with why they're
this resort.
We'll start with the first one,which is zion.

(10:04):
When the episode opens up.
Zion is the son of a gal fromthe first season who worked at
the hotel in hawaii, and she'svisiting the one in thailand,
because I guess they're knownfor their wellness protocols or
whatever, and she's a massagetherapist, I believe.
So he's visiting his mom andhe's having his first meditation

(10:24):
lesson.
What a way to open the series.
I know, yeah, they cut, they dosomething like that every year.
It's like, okay, some, there'ssome disasters, some deaths,
some carnage, and we're going toshow you that first, but this I
thought was the best of allthree opening seasons where I
think the first one, they werejust taking one, like one person
died and they were taking, Ithink, the one body away, right.

(10:47):
The second season was youstarted seeing bodies like
showing up at the beach, right,like at least one, I think it
was multiple bodies that wereshowing up at the beach, yeah,
and then this one.
There's a.
It opens up with a massshooting while he's trying to.

Dan (11:05):
But yeah, but that's the thing it's like.
I mean, it's a very I think alot of people watch the show,
have tried meditation, and sothey they understand the process
and how it feels to be in thatspace and and she and the
meditation instructor, she'sbasically very, very calming,
peaceful voice.

Charles (11:15):
A therapist and a meditation instructor.

Dan (11:17):
Yeah, she's amazing and so.
So it's really easy to kind ofget in that space where, like
Zion was there meditating withher, and easy to kind of get in
that space where, like zion wasthere meditating with her, and
then here's a thing in thebackground and then, perfect
timing, when she's like ignoreall the sounds from the outside,
but it was like it's not quiteoff it gets louder, exactly, and
then it gets louder and thenhe's just like no, that's a
gunshot man like and like he, hesnaps into it and then it goes

(11:38):
from super like chill, calm,relaxing, to like a vietnam
movie, like like a Vietnam warmovie, where he jumps in like
the bog and the rice fields andhe's like up to his waist in
water and he's like sloggingthrough the and hearing like
gunshots all over the place.
So that was like such acontrast.
It was like Holy cow, what's,yeah, what's going on.

Charles (11:58):
I really liked that too , I they really pulled me in
from the first second with likeHoly crap, what's going on.
And they really pulled me infrom the first second with like
holy crap, what's going on.
And then, yeah, then watchingthe series unfold, like
wondering, as you get to knowthe characters more and more,
it's like, okay, so who's goingto be involved in this?
Who are the victims, who arethe perpetrators?
How's it going to shake out?
So yeah, but he I mean, yeah,from what we've seen of Zion in

(12:20):
the first episode, he seems likea sweet, sincere kid who's just
excited to be there to visithis mom.
Yep, and we haven't seen awhole lot of him yet, so there's
not a whole lot we can.
He come.
He comes in multiple episodeslater where you see, okay, when
does he arrive to visit his momand meet his mom and reunite
with his mom?
That comes down the road.
But what we've seen of him sofar is he just seems like a

(12:42):
normal kind of chill dude.
So so let's talk about thefamily, the Ratliff family.
Timothy is the dad played byLucius Malfoy, jason Isaacs, who
I think I first saw him in thePatriot.
He was the bad guy in thePatriot.
That was sort of the villain toMel Gibson's hero and he was on

(13:02):
the British side of the army.
He's a red coat and Mel Gibsonwas one of the Minut hero and he
was on the British side of thearmy.
He's a red coat and Mel Gibsonwas a one of the minute men and
he was a really great villain inthat movie and so I don't need
to spoil that movie.
But yeah, he was a bad guy andhe was a very convincing bad guy
.
And then I loved him as LuciusMalfoy.
I thought that was perfectcasting when they they made him
Draco's dad in the Harry Potterseries, so he plays a guy that

(13:23):
is in some kind of finance, Ibelieve.
I believe he's.
What we've learned about him inthe first episode is that he
started some sort of a fund withsome other guy and then in the
first episode he gets a callfrom a reporter from, I think,
the wall street journal, sayinghey, did you work with so-and-so
?
We've got some questions aboutthe, the fund that you started,

(13:44):
and he immediately goes into oh,I haven't talked to him in
years, I haven't seen him inyears.
Send me an email with yourquestions and I'll get back to
you when I can.
I'm on vacation with my family,which is kind of interesting to
me, because at the beginning,when they're like, hey, this is
a cell phone free resort, let'sput your phones in this bag,
this guy's whole family waspretty much like no, we're not
on board with that, we're notgoing to do it, yeah.

(14:04):
And the person from the staffwas like okay, well, just don't
use your phones in in public air, public spaces, cause everybody
else has put their phones away.
And then, as soon as he startsfeeling a little bit of the
pressure from this reporter,he's like I'm on vacation with
my family.
I.

Dan (14:20):
But then.
But so, and what's interesting,though, is he comes back and
his daughter and his wife arekind of giving him shit about
taking a call, and he goes andthey ask him like well, dad,
what was that?
And he's like, oh, it wasnothing.
And like, well, if it wasnothing, why did you take the
call, right?
And he's like, well, it wassomething, but I handled it.
And now it's nothing.
Yeah, exactly, and it'll benothing.
I mean, it kind of brings outhis character a little bit like

(14:42):
he needs to be the leader, thefamily man taking care of
business type of thing.
He feels obligated to kind ofdo that.
He's also obligated to, orfeels obligated to, shield his
family from all the crazinessthat his world at work is.

Charles (14:57):
Right, yeah, to some degree, although the oldest son,
saxon, works with him.
So it's like, yeah, it'sprobably a little harder to, and
maybe up until that call he gotfrom the reporter, maybe
everything that's ever happenedwith his career has been just
kind of, yeah, little things popup, I take care of them, I deal
with them, no big deal.

(15:18):
But you do have to worry aboutif you're working with your son
and anything stressful orunexpected or if anything
happens at work that the wallstreet journal thinks is worth
calling you about.
How do you maintain thateverything's fine, everything's
calm, veneer?
Well, it's like okay, but mykid is in the office, my son's

(15:38):
in the office next to me.

Dan (15:41):
And he knows a lot of what's going on.
You know, it was just enough.
I ask questions kind of easily,poke holes in any type of
facade that I might be puttingup Exactly, yeah Cause he knows
I get the.

Charles (15:52):
The oldest son went to the same college.
They both went to Duke, Ibelieve, and they both got
probably their degrees in thesame field, yeah, and so yeah,
he's probably not as experiencedand knowledgeable as his dad,
but he knows enough to say if inthe first episode and honestly
I don't think even from thefirst episode to the seventh
episode I don't think they'vegotten really technical about

(16:14):
exactly what the family does,just kind of they're in finance,
they're involved in some sortof investment funds, but they
don't really get into thetechnical stuff of what they do
or how they do it.
But I would imagine that ifthey did, if the oldest son
starts hearing stuff thatdoesn't make sense, he's going
to be like this doesn't makesense.

Dan (16:31):
Well I mean yeah, I don't Okay, that's a waiter, it's okay
, all right.
I was going to.
I was going to talk about alittle bit more as a son how the
son compared can under likeunderstands what's going on.

Charles (16:39):
But basically, yeah, I don't think it's much of a
spoiler to say what pops up withthis wall street journal

(17:01):
reporter in the first episode.
The resolution is not oh, thatwas nothing.
It truly goes away and trulyturns into nothing.
We know from watching dramatictv shows oh, they're going to
build and it's going to getbigger and bigger.
Yeah, chekhov's gun.

Dan (17:14):
I mean, it goes to show like the son he's arrogant with
everybody except his dad.
Yes, like that's the.
And I want to move on to himnext and talk about his
arrogance.
He's right, right, yeah,patrick Schwarzenegger.
Yes, ironically, right yeah.

Charles (17:27):
Yeah, it is funny to hear him talking.
If it's a chopper, anyreferences he drops about
bulking up, getting bigger tohis little brother, it's like.
I don't like it because it'sovershortening.

Dan (17:37):
Yeah, and he looks like him too.

Charles (17:41):
I feel like he's got a lot of the similar features.
He looks more like his mom.
He might Reed Fiverr is his mom, right?
Yeah, the mom is it might be.
Let's check that real quick.
Or is it a maid?
No, that is the face.
Uh, the stars.
Two years, okay, all right, he.
Yeah, he looks a bit likeschwarzenegger, but he looks a
lot more like the mom I'm seeing.

Dan (17:59):
I'm seeing a lot of similar hairline and and and some of
his, I think, maybe his eyes andhis jawline.
To me there was a lot of timeswhere he looked like a younger
arnold schwarzenegger's mother.
Times where he looked like ayounger Arnold Schwarzenegger
yeah, Schreier's his mother.
Okay, so he looked like likefrom Pumping Iron and stuff a
younger Arnold.

Charles (18:15):
Schwarzenegger.
Yeah, it's tough thinking aboutArnold as he appears on TV now
and interviews and stuff.
He's a much older guy If youlook at some of his younger
stuff.
I think he looks pretty muchlike Patrickrick yeah, a lot
thinking back to, yeah, how helooks at terminator before he
takes on any damage to his face.
Okay, he does, he does.
There's more there, and I'mglad that patrick, the actor

(18:37):
that plays saxon he's not aninsane bodybuilder shape either
is he?
right guy.
You look at him he's like, okay, that guy's in good shape, he
works out, but he's not in right, he's not in arnold
schwarzenegger in the 80s shape,right.
And so I and I think I don'tknow if he has any interest in
getting that big.
Or I mean, really these days ifyou want to be an actor in like

(18:57):
dramatic TV shows, you don'thave to be Marvel superhero big.

Dan (19:01):
No, but I feel he probably has the capacity to do it if he
wants, right.
That's the thing is, that'swhat they get paid for, right?
They bulk up or they get backor they gain a whole bunch of
weight.

Charles (19:09):
He did say I saw an interview.

Dan (19:11):
But he's got a good starting point, so I feel like
he's kind of positioning himselfwell for yeah, exactly, to go
in the direction.

Charles (19:16):
Right?
Yeah, he did say they were inThailand for seven months
shooting White Lotus, which Ifelt like a little bit long for.
I mean know that it feels thatway to me I don't know enough to
say that it is or not but thathe said he put on 25 pounds
while they were in Thailandshooting.
Like he said you'll, if youlook at scenes where I don't

(19:40):
have my shirt on from thebeginning of the series to the
end of the series, you will seethat I put on weight.
Okay, I don't know if goodweight, I don't know.
I don't know if he's built in alittle bit of a gut or if there
wasn't anything to do out there.
If he'd work out, maybe he gotmore muscular.

Dan (19:54):
Or eat and party, yeah, yeah.

Charles (19:56):
Or you don't know, yeah , if you're partying, then
you've got to get a little bitof a gut going.
But yeah, he did mention thatthey were there for seven months
and that he did put on someweight, and then Jason Isaacs
also mentioned that I don't know.
I'm looking forward for somemore stories to come out, but I
think there was a little bit ofheat on set between some of the
actors.
I think some got to be reallyclose friends and some did not

(20:16):
get along at all, and it'll beinteresting to hear more about
that.
So, yeah, saxon patrickschwarzenegger's character
though there's some interestingstuff going on with him, he does
seem, he does seem to beplaying a character I mean not
only for the tv show, but thischaracter seems to be playing a
character like being hyper,hyper sexual, hyper masculine,

(20:40):
hyper successful, seems likeit's really important to him,
which, you know, is not all thatsurprising.
You basically take his dad andtake off a bunch of years and
bump up the testosterone, yeah,and that's probably a lot how
his dad acted when he was thatage too, where very concerned
about status, very concernedabout image, very concerned

(21:02):
about appearance, and thenthere's also some weird stuff
going on sexually with him andthe way that he talks to and
about his siblings I always justhave to ask you about that,
because that it was well done,because it was that seemed a
little awkward not, yeah,extremely awkward, but it's like
, why are you talking about that?

Dan (21:22):
your sister is hot.
She hasn't been laid yet.
Yeah, and to like his otherbrother about that and then
they're like lying in bed.
If you remember that towardsthe end of the episode and yeah,
he's like the brother the saxonwas worried about how am I
gonna masturbate while you're inthe room and he pauses and
there's like a pause where,before he gets up to do anything

(21:43):
, it's kind of like he's waitingfor his brother almost to give
him permission to masturbate infront of him.
That's how I took that off,yeah.

Charles (21:49):
So like, yeah, to explain what's going on there,
what's going on here.
So they have the family has asuite that's three bedrooms, a
master and two more bedrooms.
And so the older brother waslike the younger brother's name
is lachlan or lock lock locky,yeah.
And the older brother's likeokay, you're bunking with me.
And the sister was like or youcould you know first it was the

(22:10):
sister was like okay, you'rebunking with me.

Dan (22:11):
And the sister was like or you could no, first it was.

Charles (22:12):
The sister was like no, I think it's the way I said it.
It was like I guess you'rebunking with me or you just
basically stated it and then thesister was like or you could
sleep in my room.
And that was a little bit weirdtoo, like she was a little, I
don't think, for me theycouldn't be inviting room with

(22:32):
her because they all have theother rooms, have two beds, oh
right.
And so yeah, I mean yeah, ifthe sister and the younger
brother are close, then I don'tthink it's that weird for her to
say you can sleep in my room Ijust thought it was odd that
they were fighting over wherethe kid was sleeping.

Dan (22:43):
That was the younger sister and the older brother.

Charles (22:45):
The weirdest part was the older brother being like oh,
you can't sleep with her rightright, and they're everybody's
like.
Why not?
And he's like because ofgenitals.

Dan (22:53):
And then the mom's like don't say that's a bad word, yes
, genitals I was that he wasinteresting.
So that shows that, like sexhas probably been very repressed
in their family and that I my.
My indication then is likethat's why there's some
dysfunction going on I thoughtthe same thing.

Charles (23:07):
I thought if either either there's suppression going
on, there's guilt, there'sshame or I mean, and in addition
to that there's probablythere's a weird, there's weird
energy about sex in this family,for sure, yeah, and so it's
like okay, and again, they'renot going to drop stuff like
that in the first episode unlessthey're going to explore it

(23:28):
later on.
And yeah, it's yeah betweensaxon thinks he has to talk to
every pretty girl and kind ofhit on every pretty girl in the
first episode that he seesthere's the three women that are
on their friend's trip.
He, he strikes up aconversation with them for
really no reason.
And we've talked about thepodcast on the podcast before
about how uncomfortable it is tojust start saying something to

(23:49):
someone when you really don'thave any reason to start talking
to them.
And every time Saxon talks to agirl, it's a, it's an ice cold
pickup where he's.
He's basically saying I'm goingto initiate an interaction with
you because I'm interested inyou.
I know nothing about you otherthan the way that you look, and
that's enough reason for me,cause he's not.
He's not doing what we taught,he's not being friendly to
everybody, he's not striking upconversations with old people or

(24:11):
dudes.
He is literally just he'ssinking missile on attractive
women Right, and because that ishis mindset and that's his
energy, it comes across as, ifnot creepy, certainly heavy
handed.

Dan (24:23):
And it's funny that right before he, right after that
scene where he's talking to thethree women and they basically
just give him a cold shoulderand just give him one word
answers yes, and let meinterrupt one of the things.

Charles (24:35):
He's like you should get in the pool.
The temperature, right, thatthat's a weird thing, that like
you should get in the pool, likeit's yeah, it's.
So I mean the guy who's writingwhether it's mike white or
somebody who's obviously thewriting staff he's writing a
great young male, attractive,rich, pushy dude, right, and I

(24:56):
really enjoy the way that he'slike, yeah, that's exactly how
you would expect that guy to act.

Dan (25:00):
My favorite line, I think, out of the whole episode, was
then, after he gets shot down,he turns over to Rick's
girlfriend and is like how doessomebody get a drink around here
?
And she goes, you walk up tothe bar and you order.

Charles (25:12):
And then she turns over .
And then she turns over to theback.
I know like literally gives himthe cold shoulder.

Dan (25:16):
Yeah, but to his credit, like into the character, he
laughs and he laughs it off.
And then he turns to hisbrother and he's like it's a
numbers game, which is veryappropriate because he's in
finance was a nice little tie inthere together.

Charles (25:32):
Yes and yeah, he and it is a numbers game.
He's right about that and heseems to be, at least when it
comes to the way he talks towomen.
He seems to be fairly outcomeindependent, but on the other
hand, he does the way he doestalk about sex frequently with
his little brother and you cantell he's kind of.
It's a mix of trying to mentorhim but also trying to.
It's not.

(25:53):
I'm going to mentor you becauseI care about you and I want you
to know things that maybe Ididn't know when I was your age.
It's a and I, my status, isvery important.
I want you to look, look at melike I'm important and I'm
successful.
So it does speak to me.
Mostly I'm going to push thisfall.
So it does seem to be.
Mostly I'm going to push this.
I'm going to push my opinionson you and my unsolicited advice

(26:14):
.
Because at no point does theyounger brother at least in the
first episode, I don't think atall at no point does he go to
his older brother and say, hey,give me some advice on how I
should be acting, or lifting orany, or making my decision about
where to go.
He never is asking the olderbrother for advice, it's's no,
let's just unsolicited.

Dan (26:31):
But at the same time, though, he is also does ask a
couple of follow-up questions,and so he's, I think, not
verbally saying that he'sinterested in that information,
but I think he is not pushinghim away, saying I'm not
interested in this informationin terms of changing the subject
, whatever he's asking, and he'sstaying involved in the

(26:52):
conversation.
So I think he's keeping thedoor open, and, knowing how
pushy the older brother is, he'slike all right, well, door's
still open, I'm going to stillkeep pushing this information to
kind of meet my agenda and makeme feel good about myself Right
and I, yeah, I appreciate theyounger brother's position
because it is very.

Charles (27:11):
I mean, most of us, when we receive unsolicited
advice, we're not willing to say, hey, thanks, but I'm not
looking for advice right now.
I mean, that is something thatreally it takes training,
therapy, whatever to be willingto say to somebody who's just
offered you advice to say, okay,I appreciate that you want to
help me, but I'm not looking foryour advice right now.

Dan (27:30):
I think a lot of times because I'm the one giving that
advice unsolicited.
So I think usually I think mostof the time I hope anyway, my
impression is that I only givefor a short period of time.
So I feel like if I had been,if I kind of keep pushing the
agenda, then it might givesomebody the opportunity or the
need to say, okay, that's enough, like, but I at least I hope,

(27:54):
and for the most part, when I'vegotten the advice, it's never
been so long where, like I'mgetting tortured because I see,
hey, this person, it's a.
I look at it as a kind gesture.
They care about me, they've putsome thought and time into
giving me some assistance andsome help, so more, and I think
most people look at it that way,I'm guessing.
So, unless they're beingtortured, I don't think anybody

(28:15):
is going to be like all right,thanks for the unsolicited
advice, unless it's like astranger, somebody you don't
know If it's coming from afriend or family member.
I think we're a little bit moretolerant of that.
I don't know, but at least frommy experience.

Charles (28:27):
As rewatch the episodes , I'll ask you to look at the
daughter's face when she getsadvice from either the brothers
or the parents, and I thinkshe's definitely in a position
where she's hearing advice shedoesn't want to hear, but she's
not unwilling, but she's notwilling to say, knocking off, I
don't want to hear it.
Right, and the dynamic therewhen you're dependent on your
parents, it's very hard to tellthem and you're around them all

(28:49):
the time hey, when you'redependent on your parents, it's
very hard to tell them andyou're around them all the time
hey, I don't want your advice.
That point's been building upfor a while, so absolutely.

Dan (28:56):
Absolutely.
I could see at some pointfeeling that urge to be like all
right, cut the shit Right.

Charles (29:01):
Yeah, and I wonder we'll see more conversations in
the future episodes between thetwo brothers and I'll be on the
lookout for that, as is Saxonhammering him with unsolicited
advice during the whole show.
And what kind of reaction isthe young actor that plays the
younger brother having to that?
Like what are the nonverbals?

(29:21):
But the younger brother?
Not a ton has developed withhim so far, except he's the baby
of the family.
Well, I don't even know if he'stechnically younger than the.

Dan (29:29):
No, he's not the middle, I don't I thought he was in the
middle.

Charles (29:32):
He gives baby, child vibes to me because the daughter
, the posture too.
And yeah, I mean women are moremature at that age anyway, the
daughter seems to be more onboard with what she wants out of
life, too, than the youngerbrother is.

Dan (29:44):
Yeah, so, and that's why I think kind of wavers in his
loyalty yeah between theoutlaw's sister and the older
brother.

Charles (29:51):
Yeah for sure.
It looks like he's dealing witha question of where am I going
to go to college?
His mother.

Dan (29:57):
Oh yeah, everything in his life is a choice.
Right Like yeah, unc, right,yeah or right.

Charles (30:02):
Yeah, I guess the mother went to UNC, chapel Hill
and she's a Tar Heel and the dadwent to duke mother's
hysterical and well, that'ssomething else to talk about
which, when we get into thedynamics of this family, they're
all.
They're all living with aperson who's addicted to drugs,
that the mom and her lorazepamsituation.

(30:23):
I mean, even just in the firstepisode, the way that she's
trying to use it to, I guess,offset jet lag or whatever.
She's falling asleep in publicplaces.
And then she, at the end of theepisode, she talks about how
she got her second wind back,which I think was a, I think was
an effort to initiate romancewith the husband, but then she
says don't worry, I took alorazepam.

Dan (30:44):
Well, because he said oh no , yeah exactly.

Charles (30:47):
He's the one who basically I've got a second wind
.
And his response was oh, no,yeah so.

Dan (30:51):
And she's like don't worry, I took lupus, I don't know if
his, oh no.
So that shows, I think, thatagain sexual dysfunction Maybe I
didn't know for sure.

Charles (30:58):
Was she initiating sex or was she?
I think I saw Could have been.
Oh, you're a hassle to bearound when you're, but at that
point.

Dan (31:12):
I feel that as a partner, you've got an opportunity then
to kind of help shape what she'sgoing to do with that energy.
Right, and so if you expresssexual desire, she might be
using that energy for sexualdesire.
If you expect for going on atour somewhere or whatever, then
maybe she want to to do that.
Either way, there's some sortof connection that she doesn't
have with him.
Oh for sure, I feel like that'syeah, that's that, and he
pushed that off, yeah, whateverkind of connection that was

(31:35):
going to be sexual or not yeah,I wonder.

Charles (31:39):
It feels like just in the first episode we'll talk
about how this developsthroughout the series.
He strikes me.
His role in the family seems tobe on the decision maker and on
the paycheck and he does notseem very connected to anybody
else in the family.
It seemed like he goes to workand he makes a bunch of money,

(32:00):
and I mean really, becauseeverybody who's at this resort
has a bunch of money.
Poor people aren't going tothis resort, at least not poor
americans or poor europeans,right, the only poor people we
see are people who work there.
But yeah, he strikes me, yeah,I don't know what his, what he
sees his job in the family to beother than bringing home the
bacon, which apparently he seemsto be pretty good at.

(32:21):
But and look, there's a lot ofdads that feel like that's their
sole role is to pay the bills.

Dan (32:28):
I mean.
Another part towards the end isafter he sees Rick again and he
comes back and complains to hiswife in bed and says I saw that
asshole, he was an assholeagain.
And she goes well, he's justprobably jealous of you because
you've got it all, You've got abeautiful wife.
And then there's like anuncomfortable pause.
You've got a beautiful wife oh,yes, I do the most beautiful.

(32:48):
So it's like she needed toremind him.
So you're, I think you're spoton with that.

Charles (32:54):
It's just like he, his job is his life at that point,
yeah, yeah, and I think, yeah,that that was an interesting
dynamic where family comessecond.
Yeah, if, yeah, for sure, andyeah, so let's talk about Rick.
Rick is the most interestingcharacter to me.
I mean I like Walt Goggins asan actor.
I think he's great in justabout everything.
He played Shane on the shield.

(33:15):
Did you watch the shield on FX?
No, yeah, so that was a reallygood cop show.
Okay, had one of the bestseries finales that I've ever
seen.
I'd put it up there with allgood things.
The star Trek, the nextgeneration finale of it was
really good and, yes, waltongoggins played shane and then he
had a big role in the showjustified as well, which I'd

(33:35):
seen most of justified.
I don't think I finishedwatching the whole series.
It was good as well.
He I've seen memes about himrecently where it's like man,
have you ever seen a guy with amore perfect name?
It's like you look at thatguy's face, you're like that's
walton goggins and that namefits really well.
Yeah, and yeah, so he.
So he's an older guy.
I'd say he's probably what acouple years older than us as

(33:56):
character.
I don't know in real life howold he is.
Let's check and see If you hadto guess.
Do you think he's older than usor younger than us?
Older, I put him at like 55.
All right, 53.
Yeah, 53.
So he's got six years on me andseven on me, so that's cool
yeah.
All right, but I think they'vemade him look older.

(34:16):
I mean, on this series he looksa bit strung out.
I mean he's trashy and he looksstrung out and stressed for
sure.
And he's dating a younger galand he's on this vacation with
her in Thailand at thisexpensive resort.
But almost from the get-go youget the impression either he
doesn't want to be there or he'sgot some other agenda for being

(34:38):
there.
Because he is.
I mean he's downright rude tohis girlfriend, like non-stop
rude, like I don't see him beingsweet to her at all.
In the first episode she keepstrying to not bless her.
She's really trying to get him.
She likes being around the guy,but man, he is just miserable.

Dan (34:55):
Yeah, and the problem is I think she's coming from the
other extreme, like, oh, youshould love this and love that
and there's so much joy, and Ifeel like that's just going to
push somebody who's in thatposition in In the opposite
direction.
It's just, it was a little toomuch.
She's coming from as miserableas he is.
She's super full of joy andlove and everything, and so I

(35:16):
know I've been on the his sideof things at times.

Charles (35:20):
I've been on vacations.

Dan (35:22):
It just makes it worse when you see that joy.
Oh, you've been on vacationwith that too.

Charles (35:27):
Where I've been, I've been feeling miserable.
Miserable, I mean, yeah, Ihaven't had what we'll, what
we'll see is such a.
I mean he's got a rock solidagenda for being where he is and
why he's there.
But I haven't had that.
But I've been on vacationsbefore where I was like man, I
just I feel miserable, I don't,I'm not happy and yeah, trying,
I mean putting somebody elsethrough that is brutal and yeah,

(35:50):
I feel bad.
Yeah, I feel bad for her.
I feel real bad for her whereshe's.
She seems to love him so muchand she's so positive and trying
to make it a good experiencefor both of them.
And he's just like, nope, notinterested, and he's not telling
her what's bothering him.
He's not giving her any, anyview into what's going on.
He's literally shooting herdown because he's like you're a

(36:16):
machine gun with the questions,like that was one of the lines,
and he's like cut it out, kindof thing.
And I think yeah, gave her uh,do you ever stop at some point?
Something, something like that,and it's just like dude, I mean
this is not, she's resilient,she's like this place is
beautiful.

Dan (36:22):
Thank you for like treating us to go and everything like
like right after him being anasshole yeah she was like still
extra sweet to him I'll becurious to see as things develop
.

Charles (36:31):
And now again, I've watched seven episodes as a
recreational viewer and I'vewatched one episode as a okay,
I'm going to talk about this.
I wonder, as we watch the otherepisodes in preparation for
other episodes of our podcast,what will I be able to pick up
about these guys and the waythat they're relating to the
women and children in their life.
That's like, oh, because it isvery different.

(36:53):
I mean, you and I've had thatexperience with just reading the
books that we read.
It's like, okay, we read itonce to like, oh, this is a cool
self-help book, I wonder what Imight pick up.
And now it's like, okay, we'regonna read it again and we're
gonna be prepared to talk aboutit for an hour per chapter.
And you do pick up a lot more.
This is the first time we'vereally done this with a TV show,
a fiction TV series.
So I'm curious to see what elseis going to jump out at me as I

(37:13):
kind of watch it through thiscompletely different, you know,
mindset.
But yeah, he is.
Yeah, I see it was a veryinteresting character, but I'm
all pissed off at him, sure.

Dan (37:24):
I right.
So I saw them really develophis character really quickly on
the boat ride over, when he'ssitting and he lights up a
cigarette next to the dad andthe dad's like, hey, could you
just take it somewhere else?
Like not stop smoking, butcould you move because the
smoke's bothering me, yeah, andthen he doesn't budge and so
it's just.
And then the son comes over,saxon comes over, and he's just

(37:44):
like put it out, like the son,just like.
So it shows the arrogance ofthe son, or whatever.
And then Rick stands up aboutto like fight the guy and it's
Patrick Schwarzenegger.
He's not exactly like Arnold,but he's tall and he's still
pretty wide, like he's a big guy, and his girlfriend pulls him
back down and it just goes toshow like I looked at it and I'm
like, okay, he is looking fortrouble, right, like he clearly

(38:07):
is.
He's being a jerk on purpose,like he could have just easily
like walked to the other side ofthe boat and finished a
cigarette over there, but hestayed in it.

Charles (38:14):
Yeah.

Dan (38:14):
He stayed in that and escalated the con.

Charles (38:17):
Yeah.

Dan (38:17):
So he's definitely feeling some negative emotions about
something and I think he'strying to express that and get
that out in some way, and maybegetting his ass kicked or maybe
getting no fight is not reallythe way he should be going about
doing, but maybe that's all youknow.

Charles (38:34):
Yeah, but what I mean?
What do we know about people,and guys in particular, that
display that kind of behavior?
He's feeling afraid or insecureabout something.
Because you don't behave thatway about something, I mean, I
would say I mean it feels like ahe's afraid of something or he
is yeah, there's something thathe's afraid of and he's he's not

(38:58):
comfortable feeling that wayinternally, so his external
behavior has to be I'm a guywho's not afraid of anything.

Dan (39:04):
I go to the another perspective, similar, but it's
just like hurt people, hurtpeople, right.
And so I feel like, yeah, he'shurting in some way and that's,
that's the tools that they haveat that point too, right.
And it's just like, okay, thisis the people who need the most
love, express love in the worstways, right.

Charles (39:24):
And so it's so.
Yeah, one of the things Ithought about talking about when
I was watching that scene washow would you have handled if
you were sitting on the boatwith the guy who was smoking and
some one of the characters madea reference to there's no
smoking on the boat.
One of the things I didn't likeabout what's his name Ratliff,
timothy, the father, the make ofthe face and the wave in the

(39:47):
hand.
That seemed a little passive,aggressive.
Yeah, it's all sad too.
It's like, okay, so I wouldhave gone up and left, gone to a
different part of the boat.
Yeah, I think I would have donethat.
There's a bit, is a big boat?
Yeah, right, so if he's notgonna leave enough, yeah, and
you're, and it's an open, it'snot like you're in a small
waiting room where somebodylights up the cigarette.
You're outside, you're on aboat.
It's probably move a few feetover.
Is there a situation where youwould have said, hey, could you

(40:08):
put your cigarette out?
I probably would not have,because I don't think it would
bother me.

Dan (40:11):
I mean I've been late about a heater.
The only time is if he wasintentionally like blowing it in
my face or my wife's face atthat point, then I'm gonna say
something.
But otherwise I would have beenlike I'm just gonna move, I
wouldn't even.
I wouldn't even a completestranger, like if I had known
him or met him, had some sort offriendly conversation
beforehand and I, I might, Imight have at that point but
otherwise.

(40:31):
But I'm going to, I'm going toexpress myself and say, look,
this isn't something I like.
All right, I'm going to go tothe other part of the boat, I
agree.
And then there'll be sittingthere on the one end of the boat
smoking by themselves.

Charles (40:41):
Yeah, you enjoy positive interactions with
strangers more than I do.
Like I, I kind of grouppositive interactions, negative
interactions.

Dan (40:50):
They're all interactions that I'm not really looking to
have, and so, yeah, I would havebeen a little bit, and
especially because, considering,like I don't know how long that
boat ride is, like I'm going tobe stuck on this boat with this
guy.
It's not a lot of whole, not awhole lot of people on this boat
, right?
So it's like it's not a cruiseship where it's that big, where
you may never run into the guy,yeah.
So I would have been a littleextra nice or careful on how I

(41:12):
handled that situation.
I probably just would havewalked.

Charles (41:14):
Yeah, I think I would have done it and I would have
filed away like, okay, if I'm atsome sort of a dinner or a show
or something with this guy, I'mnot going to sit right next to
him because he lights up insituations where it's not.
Yeah, I mean, either he's notaware of, yeah, you know the
thief's social intelligence, orhe's got a chip on his shoulder
and he's trying to piss peopleoff, so he's like those are not

(41:34):
my people, exactly.
So this is a guy I'm going toavoid.
So the last guy I want to talkabout is who is one of the
employees at the hotel.
He mans like I think he mans thegate, the car, his general
purpose security is his job, andat the beginning of the episode
one of his coworkers has anissue with her moped and he
gives her a ride to work.

(41:55):
And I wanted I definitely wantto be a go easy on spoilers for
his character, because someinteresting stuff does happen
with him his job and hisrelationship with the gal that
he gave a ride to.
But in the first episode hedoes refer to her at one point
as my princess and I mean it's amook is her name.

(42:19):
She's a pretty girl and youcould tell that he's sweet on
her.

Dan (42:22):
Yeah.
So I wanted to ask you aboutthis, what you thought of how he
handled the situation where sheis talking to the bodyguards of
the owner, right, and they're alittle bit they look like
badasses.
They're a little bit brawler,they're a little bigger, they're
a little bit brawny, they standa little bit with a little bit
more confidence than Guy Tawdoes, yeah, and he calls them,

(42:44):
so he sees her talking to themand then he calls her over.

Charles (42:48):
Yeah To him and asks what she's talking to them about
.
He calls her over.

Dan (42:51):
Yeah To him and asks what she's talking to them about.
Yes, and he's like they'rearrogant and she's like they're
friendly.

Charles (42:57):
And he's like well, that's because you're pretty,
yeah, they're friendly to youbecause you're pretty yeah.
So what's interesting to?

Dan (43:01):
me is there's nice guy vibes there.
There's nice guy vibes, butalso to me he's also wasn't
afraid to To be completelyhonest with her about his
feelings right then.
And there he's like becauseyou're pretty.
And then she's like, oh well,they've got exciting jobs, they
can they make a lot of money.
He goes I make a lot of money.
And she goes well, they've gotexciting jobs, they can travel
anywhere they want to.

(43:21):
And he goes I like my jobbetter.
And so like every time she waslike poking at him a little bit.
He's like I'm, he's kind ofstanding his ground.
So.
But what was weird was I didn'tlike the fact that he called
her over to almost stop her fromtalking to those guys, someone
who's not your mate, right yeah?
That's the biggest problem I had, but then I gave him some

(43:42):
respect after that because hewas not pulling any punches.
He was just yeah, I like it too.
And then he's like yeah, Idisagree with you on that.

Charles (43:54):
I feel like he like, even though he was jealous of
them, but I feel like he wasagreeing comparisons that he
never should have agreed to likethe move there, I think, is to
oh wait, so I took some.

Dan (44:02):
So I remember.
Then it finished right whereshe goes.
He goes.
Oh, my job's, I love my jobbetter and she goes.
She's like, oh really, youwatch cars drive in and out all
day and he goes.
I saved the guy's life fromdrowning and she goes.
That was two years ago.
Get over it kind of yeah andhe's like he still writes to me
every day from belgium, right,and so she's like, all right,
and then there was kind of theend of it at that point.

(44:22):
So I still feel like he had astrong response.

Charles (44:25):
Yeah, I did not find even though he can cross very.
I didn't find those responsestoo wrong at all.
I I thought it was more of letme convince you why you should
find me attractive.
That's like I'm going to.
I'm going to lay out a logicalcase why I'm just as attractive
as those guys, and that is nothow it works right, I absolutely
agree with you on that.

Dan (44:44):
Absolutely.
I mean, there was no.
I felt like he was proud he'sstill proud of those things like
, I don't feel like he wasfaking.

Charles (44:50):
He wasn't those things.
But you just I don't see.
I mean assuming that his goalis for this girl to be attracted
to him, which I mean I thinkhe's got a crush on her.
Trying to convince a girl whyno, I'm just as good as those
other guys is not the way to doit.
And there was no flirtation.
There was no.
I didn't really pick up on anyhumor on his side, it was.

(45:12):
He was like I'm going to, I'mgoing to verbally make my case
to you.
Yeah, I've never found that tobe an effective way.
And, in all fairness, it lookedlike and even call those guys
arrogant, like that's liketrying to take them down a peg,
correct.

Dan (45:27):
Yeah, yeah, I guess I should shut my mouth before I
say anything about futureepisodes.
Yeah, okay, I agree from thatscene, but I still I gave him
credit for at least being proudof the things that he did, as
well as made his feelings forher known Like you're beautiful,
anything for you, my princess,when you, when she'd walk away.
So I listen, I mean I'm not awoman, but I feel like you got

(45:50):
to give him some points for atleast kind of trying to stand
his ground and completely behonest with his feelings for her
, versus trying to be a friend,right?
So I feel like a lot of timesin other movies and media, a lot
of times it's it's not asobvious that he's interested
right away.
I feel like sometimes thatcharacter where they build that
tension, it's they build on thatfriendship and then all of a

(46:13):
sudden she just realizes oh,he's been here the whole time.
Now I love him too, which isn'tgood either, but I feel like at
least right out of the gatehe's showing that he's
interested.
To me it was different.

Charles (46:24):
Right, Well, stuff that I've been right out of the gate
.
Right out of the gate as far asepisode one of this season.
Yes, but she's known the guyfor two years.

Dan (46:34):
Okay, but we don't yeah.
So yeah, I guess how long hashe been?

Charles (46:38):
That's the question.
Yeah, I get the impression it'sbeen a long time.

Dan (46:41):
Has he been trying this whole time?

Charles (46:42):
I get the impression.

Dan (46:44):
Or has he been Okay Trying for some time?
I missed that part.
I I didn't realize.
They've been knowing each otherfor two years.

Charles (46:49):
Oh yeah, I guess she's like yeah, the guy that he yeah,
I'm just picking it up yeah,like she reacted to it, like she
knows, like she was around whenthat happened.

Dan (46:57):
Good point, and so okay, so maybe this is a friend zone
yeah.

Charles (47:04):
He's being somewhat open about finding her
attractive.
But I mean attractive.
But I mean, yeah, I've, I'veknown guys in the friend zone
who are willing to drop things,like my princess and stuff like
that, and it's like, okay, she's, she feels like it's safe to
have him around as a guy thatadmires her and is attractive
all right, I take it back.

Dan (47:22):
You're right, he's in the friend zone at this point.

Charles (47:25):
That's the impression I got, yeah, and the fact that we
thought about that through yourhistory, the fact that he's
known her and it's not come to a.
I want more than this and ifyou're not interested, that's
fine, I'm going to keep looking.
That conversation hasdefinitely not happened because
he's still friendly with her and, yeah, I mean, maybe at this

(47:45):
point we don't know how into herhe is, but I get the impression
they've never had an act,they've never had a romantic
date together.
At this point.
No, and again, the need thatthat he, the fact that he needs,
he feels the need to insultother men and bring them down a
notch.
So he's one of her orbiters,right it feels that way to me,

(48:06):
right, it feels that way to meand so, yeah, we'll see if he's
able to shake that impression.
But it's going to.
It's going to require somepretty decisive action, I would
say, on his part, if he wants toget out of that place that he's
put himself.
So we'll see.
All right, let me see therewere some other points that I
wanted to.
So that's kind of anintroduction to all the
characters and we'll get intothem more individually as we, as

(48:31):
we cover the episodes.
We're not going to have toreintroduce them every time, but
there are definitely some.
I'm trying to think is thereany positive masculinity that
we've seen?
Really?
I mean, I guess Guy Talk wouldbe the closest to, and Lachlan
is just a young guy who's tryingto figure out who he is and try
to find his place in his familyand where he wants to go to
school and stuff.

Dan (48:52):
The instructor for the massage therapist.
Oh, I forgot what his name was.
Oh my God, I wrote it down.
I'll have to look for it.

Charles (48:59):
Let's see, I'm looking for his picture.
Chai Okay, pom Chai is his name.
Yeah, we'll get into him andwe'll also talk a little bit
about the um.

Dan (49:09):
I think he's the one of the few that have, at least in this
episode, a positive.

Charles (49:14):
Yeah, he's handles masculinity, yeah, and he
doesn't see.
He doesn't seem to have anyulterior motives or weird
agendas.
He just seems to be prettyauthentic.
The other one we'll talk aboutis the I guess, Russian fellow
who's going to be like the.
We'll see him a little bit morethere's a health concierge.
Yes, there's not a whole lotgoing on with him in this.

Dan (49:30):
Vlad, is that the guy's name?

Charles (49:32):
I think so, something like that.
A good looking dude who's.
The women are excited to workwith him.
Right now we don't know muchabout him, but we'll.
We'll get into him a little bitmore in future episodes.
But yeah, the guy who is what'swhat's Zion's mom's name?

Dan (49:47):
I don't know if they even mentioned it.
I don't remember hearingBelinda Belinda, that's right.

Charles (49:54):
Okay, belinda is being is learning from this other guy,
who's the basically hercounterpart in Thailand, the
Thailand property, and they bothseem to be friendly and nice to
each other and nothing weirdgoing on there, which I like.
He seems like just a normaldude.

Dan (50:08):
Yeah, and as he was like giving her the introduction to a
little bit of thai cultureabout the island, and so one of
the lizards falls from the treeand she freaks out.
He goes no, you don't have toworry about that monitor lizard.
And then he kind of shoos itaway.

Charles (50:22):
So he's already showing signs of being like protective
of her and just a kind of goodguy in general exactly, yeah,
and I don't think there'sanybody else that really had
much of a role in the firstepisode that we haven't talked
about.
Yet.
The manager is a little bit.
The stream Is that Fabian orwhatever his name is.
Yeah, sounds rightstereotypical mid -manager where

(50:49):
it's like, okay, you're notdynamic enough to be in charge,
but you're pushy enough to sortof be above some other people,
and so I yeah, I didn't reallylike his vibe, but he didn't
seem like a bad guy.
He just seemed like aborderline competent guy which
we've all known and worked with.

Dan (51:03):
Guys like that yeah, I think he kind of compares to
some of the other managers.
But the other managers from theother seasons they they had a
little bit.
They were a little more powerhungry, they were a little bit
more arrogant and he got alittle bit of that in him, yeah,
but not as much as the previousmanagers, I feel.
From the other, from the other.

Charles (51:21):
Yeah, I would agree with that too.
Yeah, yeah, all right, so we'llstop there the upcoming
episodes, talking more aboutwhat it is that is motivating
these guys and why they act theway they do with their friends,
family, fellow guests, what havenot, and, yeah, I'm looking
forward to this.
So we'll do this for as manyepisodes as they're going to

(51:43):
have.
Let me see how many episodes.
How many episodes?
Oh, just eight total, right,yeah, I guess.
So I was a little surprisedthat, yeah, it's going to be
eight seasons total, so we onlyhave one episode left to go as
far as what's aired from whatyou've seen.
Yep, and that comes out, I guess, this sunday yeah interesting

(52:04):
that it feels like there's a lotto tie up in in one episode
yeah, I think I'm an episodebehind.

Dan (52:09):
I don't think you haven't seen seven yet.

Charles (52:10):
No, okay, yeah, so that that'll be interesting to see
how they end up tying ittogether.
Wow, yeah, that's cause they'vegot to get us to the point
where the shooting starts, andone damn sort of a resolution to
that.

Dan (52:24):
Yeah.
So what's crazy is that I,after rewatching episode one,
then after the shooting, andthey start introducing the
characters on the boat one weekearlier and I feel I've only
watched six episodes, but I waslike holy cow, that all happened
in one week, oh yeah.

Charles (52:40):
Yeah, it's pretty wild, yeah, and I think we'll get
into some of the stuff with thethree ladies on their trip when
we talk about the healthconcierge guy, the Russian
fellow and his friends, thatwe'll meet some of them in
subsequent episodes too.
So we'll talk a little bitabout the ladies, but their
dynamic is really fascinating tome.
We'll get into that a littlebit as it relates to the guys

(53:01):
around them and how those guysare behaving.
All right, cool.
Thanks, dale.
We'll stop there and talk toyou next week.
All right, I'm looking forwardto it.
Okay, thanks so much forlistening to the complete
episode.
We appreciate it.
If you enjoyed it and you wantto check out the next one, it'll
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three, episode two, before youlisten to the episode, so that

(53:21):
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Check out our website,mindfullymasculinecom, for full
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