April 28, 2025 • 32 mins
In this episode of Mindfully Masculine, Charles and Dan dive into Chapter 10 of Dating Essentials for Men by Dr. Robert Glover: "Activate Women's Basic Biological Urges."
We explore why confidence, competence, and authentic self-expression are essential for real attraction—and why just being "nice" can backfire.
You'll learn:
- The key differences between niceness and true kindness
- Why honesty and directness are more attractive than playing it safe
- How confidence and competence build magnetic status
- The dangers of the "friend zone" and why pretending not to care never works
- Why embracing authenticity beats trying to please everyone
We also share personal stories about overcoming fear of rejection, building real-world confidence, and why living authentically—even if it turns off a few people—is the only sustainable path to connection and success.
If you've ever wondered why women seem to respond to boldness over politeness—or how to break free from the "nice guy" trap—this episode is for you.
Keywords: dating advice for men, confidence and attraction, nice guy syndrome, friend zone, Dr. Robert Glover, Dating Essentials for Men, how to build confidence, male self-improvement, authenticity in dating, social anxiety tips
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Charles (00:00):
Yeah, I would say, if everybody likes you, then yeah,
you're either being an authenticor I would say that the
majority of the cases you'rebeing an authentic, the other I
guess there's a chance you justmight be super boring, I mean.
Dan (00:14):
For whatever reason.
I mean, it could be any numberof reasons why they don't like
you, I'll say when everybodydoes like you, I'll say it.
Charles (00:21):
If absolutely everybody likes you, you're either being
an authentic or you're just avery boring person.
All right, welcome back to theMindfully Masculine podcast.
This is Charles.
In this episode, dan and I willfinish our discussion of part
one of Dating Essentials for Menby Dr Robert Glover, and the
topics we address will includeniceness versus kindness,
(00:44):
honesty and authenticity,confidence and status,
competence and attraction, thefear of rejection, avoiding the
friend zone.
Authentic can find our fullaudio and video episodes and
anything else we decide to putup there, which is not much
right now other than our audioand video episodes.
(01:04):
Thanks and enjoy hey, charleshow are you?
I'm okay, dan, thank you.
Let's get into chapter 10.
This is our last chapter offirst part of dating essentials
for men by dr robert glover.
This one has the cringy titleof activating women's basic
(01:28):
biological urges not supercringy, not the cringiest thing
in this book, but still kind ofall right.
So we're going to discuss whythings like confidence and
sexual intent are key toattraction and why in in either
(01:49):
suppressing or or not givingadequate space to these
characteristics, where we'redoing worse with the ladies than
we have to.
So first let's talk about thelie of nicenesseness, and if you
want to figure out how theimpulse or the drive to be nice
(02:11):
can definitely hurt men andlimit their positive outcomes,
read no More.
Mr Nice Guy by Dr Robert Glover,first book that he really got
famous for, talks about that alot, lot.
And let's let's adequatelydefine niceness versus kindness.
Where kindness is the, kindnessis the goal.
(02:32):
Kindness is the, the way thatyou should be and should appear
to people.
You should, you should appearto be a kind person and a kind
man.
Where niceness is trying toappear kind, for all the
benefits without manuallyauthenticity.
Yeah.
So a nice guy is a guy who'strying to look kind even though
(02:53):
he's not, and that not only isthat usually seen right through.
Real quick it's uh, it's hardto maintain it.
It leads to acting out, itleads to resentment and leads to
blowups.
It leads to feeling like you'rebeing taken advantage of.
Niceness is not the goal here.
Dan (03:10):
You're putting on an act.
Charles (03:11):
Yes, the goal is to be a legitimate, a genuinely kind
person, not to be someone wholooks like they're kind when
when it helps them, okay.
So keep in mind that when wetalk about nice guys especially
when you hear the term in anegative connotation yeah, it's
talking about a guy who'splaying it safe to get what he
wants out of people, notsomebody who is legitimately
(03:33):
selfless or kind.
Those are positive attributesthat everybody is able to admire
, respect and be attracted to,where doing it in a way where
you're trying to get somethingout of it is the opposite.
Dan (03:48):
And the kind of another way to think about this is when
somebody tries to set you upwith somebody and you ask them
to describe them to you.
If they were to tell you thatoh they're nice versus oh
they're kind To me, inherentlythose words have significantly
different impressions in my mindin terms of who that person is
(04:11):
For me as well.
Charles (04:12):
Yeah, yeah, there's just a.
There's a.
There's a weakness and ablandness to the term nice.
That is not.
Dan (04:20):
It's like yeah, I don't know what else to say, so I'm
going to kind of cover up anyimperfections by saying that
they're nice.
Charles (04:27):
Yeah.
So let's, let's learn to and inpart of the, you can be a very
kind person and also be a veryhonest and direct person.
Where, with niceness there'sthere's just an implication of
that You're not really thatdirect and you're not really
that honest.
You're nice and and that'sanother reason that you should
(04:51):
shy away from behaving in a waythat gets you labeled as nice,
and that's the thing.
Honesty and directness are veryattractive.
That's something that when,when somebody is honest and
direct, there's sort of a anunspoken message of I'm going to
be me and if you don't like it,that's okay.
Dan (05:11):
I have self-confidence in myself and what I'm, what I'm
conveying to you.
Charles (05:15):
Yes, where the opposites being dishonest.
I was having this discussionwith a friend the other day,
like why is it that people aredishonest?
Why is it that people lie?
And I think the core of that isa belief of if Dan knows the
truth about me, then the world'snot as safe for me, the world
(05:39):
doesn't have as many options forme.
So I'm going to hide the truthfrom dan so that I can have a
little bit more control over howthe world is and I can feel
safer where.
If, if you don't have thatinsecurity, if you're not
worried about what you know ohthanks, because the truth about
me is known and dan thinks aboutme in the way that I really am
(06:01):
then that's going to take awayoptions and that's going to take
away resources from me.
So if you can live your lifeand be like no, I don't care who
knows the truth about me, I amwhat I am, and if everybody
knows it, I'll be okay, anyway,that is inherently more
attractive and desirable becauseyou're not.
You're not living your life ina way that you're you're in
(06:22):
danger of being found out andyeah, that is.
That's an exhausting way tolive.
Dan (06:27):
Yeah.
Charles (06:28):
Yeah, like, oh, if they knew who I really was, they'd
all hate me, or the very least,they wouldn't love me.
Is is not a way to live yourlife.
Dan (06:36):
And it's, and again, you're making assumptions.
The same thing that we talkedabout recently, too, is is you
are your brain is going to worstcase scenario, because that's
what it does.
Based on not enough information, you don't know how that other
person's going to necessarilythink or react based on you have
an idea, based on what you'resaying, but you have an idea,
but you don't know for sure.
Charles (06:58):
And you're doing yourself a disservice because
you're now taking a risk ofacting on your inaccurate or not
complete information andthere's consequences for that
yeah, and I I think we all, Imean at least most of us
(07:18):
struggle from time to time withfeelings of what if I'm not
prepared?
What if I'm not good enough?
What if they don't look at melike I'm worthy of fill in the
blank?
But to think that way and thentry to fix that problem or
manage that problem or sue that,however you want it, whatever
language you want to use bysaying, oh, if I just tell
(07:39):
things that aren't true aboutmyself, then I can avoid those
problems, that's the jump.
Years ago I decided I'm notgoing to ever make that jump.
I'm not going to.
Yes, I might feel like I'munprepared or well ill-prepared
or not good enough for fill inthe blank, but I'm never going
to try to mitigate that by lyingabout it.
(07:59):
Oh yeah, and that really doessimplify your life.
And and also just adopting apolicy I'm going to tell the
truth all the time, no matterwhat, does make you less anxious
in some ways of okay, I'm justtaking this, this maladaptive
behavior that I know won't workfor me in the longterm.
I'm taking it off the tablecompletely.
So I'm just not going to lie topeople, I'm going to tell them
(08:21):
the truth and then I'll dealwith whatever happens as a
result of that.
It does make life quite a biteasier and it does allow you to
go through life with a certainlevel of confidence too, to say
a bit easier, and it does allowyou to go through life with a
certain level of confidence too,to say, yes, there's.
Things are never going to get sobad that I feel like I have to
lie about it.
They just don't get that badfor me.
I mean, fortunately I'm not.
I'm not having not nazisknocking on my door asking me if
(08:44):
I've seen anne frank it's morelike hey, hey, charles, did you
forget to?
you told me you fixed mycomputer today.
Did you forget to do it?
Yeah, sorry, I did, instead ofoh, yeah, I fixed it, it's not
what happened, it's not working.
Oh, that's weird.
And this broke after I left.
Yeah, I never find myself in aposition having those
conversations because I'm justnot willing to do it.
(09:13):
Okay, the number one aphrodisiacthat Dr Glover mentions is
confidence.
Women in particular respond toconfidence in a way that is hard
for us to understand.
Sometimes, when you behave in away that communicates you're a
secure person to be around andyou're a confident person to be
around, the natural conclusionof that is oh, this is a man of
higher status than the otherpeople around him, and that's
(09:36):
the interesting thing aboutstatus is it is so context
dependent where to have highstatus, you don't have to be
famous.
You don't have to be a powerfulpolitician.
You don't have to have aFerrari in your garage or a
Rolex on your wrist.
You just have to be in thesituation that you're currently
(09:56):
in.
You just have to be the amongthe most well-regarded people
and he uses examples in thisbook even if you're in a
Dungeons and Dragons group thatmeets on a regular basis.
If you just know your crap andyou're better at it than the
other people in the group, thenyou've you've got status in that
group so it can be in your yourboard game club, it can be in
(10:21):
your run group, it can be inwhatever group you volunteer
with and this is this is my.
My advice to young men inparticular is just find
something that you're intoenough to get really good at it,
and it doesn't matter what itis, whether it's a game, a
physical activity, a hobby, avolunteer opportunity, a church
(10:43):
group, whatever it is.
Care about it enough that you,that you want to learn about it
and get good at it and practiceat it, and you will have the
kind of status that will attracta potential partner and new
friends.
Dan (10:56):
And you're going to be doing something you enjoy along
the way Exactly.
It's not going to be a struggleto get there.
Charles (11:00):
Exactly.
And when it comes to keeping itin context of I'd like to meet
new people for romanticpossibilities, then, yes, maybe
also factor in not just is thissomething that I'm going to
enjoy, but is this something I'mgoing to enjoy that the boys or
girls that I'm interested inalso enjoy?
And keep that in mind.
(11:21):
If it's, if it's something, ifyou're into girls and you're in
a hobby that there are literallyzero girls showing up for, then
keep that hobby, but also thinkabout maybe adding one that has
a little bit more participationfrom the kind of people that
you're interested in, Right?
Dan (11:35):
Right.
And if you struggle withconfidence, you can borrow what
you've built in the previousarea.
That might not have a lot ofwisdom.
You borrow that confidence andyou borrow that memory that you
started at some place.
Charles (11:49):
I used to be a complete rookie at this thing complete
newbie, and I'm not anymore.
Dan (11:54):
I have the skill set to get better at something and become
really good at it, and so I justneed to apply that skill set to
this new endeavor.
Charles (12:01):
Yeah, that relationship between confidence and
competence is.
It's unbreakable.
And the more time you spendgetting competent at something,
the more confident you'll feelwhen you do it.
And and the more time you spendgetting competent at something,
the more confident you'll feelwhen you do it.
And the more confident you feel, the more likely people are
going to be like, oh, he lookslike he enjoys this and is good
at it.
That's the kind of person Iwant to be around, because maybe
(12:26):
I'm new at this and I'd like tolearn from somebody more
experienced than me.
And yeah, start with.
The confidence is portable, thecompetence not so much.
I mean you can bring confidencefrom another area into the new
area.
The competence, it only growsby the reps.
You just got to that new thingthat you're first trying.
You're not going to becompetent until you practice at
it and get good at it, but theconfidence, like you said, you
(12:47):
can't borrow from other domains.
Dan (12:49):
And that signals to other people that you can build that
competence in other areas.
Right, it's the potential.
I think Glover or somebody elsehad said basically, a lot of
the most attractive traits thatmen can display for women is not
necessarily being successful,it's having the potential to be
successful, having thatpotential to achieve the things
(13:11):
that you want to in life and byhaving confidence in one area.
That signals that you have theability to build competence in
whatever area or in a number ofdifferent areas, and I think
that also tends to be anattractive quality and trait
that it might be.
It's kind of be under thesurface a little bit in terms of
(13:34):
why people or why women wouldbe attracted to yeah.
Charles (13:38):
I it's.
It's interesting how we are themore interested we are in a
girl, the more afraid we seem tobe to express that interest and
the more scared we are whereit's so I mean it's counter I
mean it's counterintuitive rightwe're in how it runs counter to
success.
Sure, I was trying to say yeah,it's, it's.
It's like we build up thesestakes in our mind and the more
(14:03):
we want the thing, the lesslikely we are to behave in the
way that gets us the thing wewant so much.
And and that's one of thethings that he tries to reframe
in this book and in this chapteris this idea of you can't
pretend to be uninterested in agirl and expect her to be
interested in you.
Part of what gets herinterested in you is the fact
(14:24):
that you're willing tocommunicate your interest in her
, and the more you try to hidethat because of your fear of
rejection or whatever, the lessattractive she's going to be.
Now he says something in thischapter, and the way he says it
I don't completely agree with.
He says women don't sleep withmen that they know they get to
know the men that they want tosleep with.
(14:46):
I'm a guy who's been friendswith a woman who I eventually
started dating.
What I would say more than thisis women don't find the men
they already know to be exciting.
Women want to get to know themen that they find exciting.
So if you're already in arelationship where you've
(15:12):
basically painted yourself intoa fairly boring role in this
person's life, the amount ofanxiety that it would sort of
create in you to think, oh, I'vegot to do something exciting.
So she sees me in a completelydifferent way, like a guy who
has put himself in the friendzone.
It's very hard to say I've gotto do something so big, yeah.
And so brandios, grant, yeah,like, so such a grand gesture
(15:33):
that she no longer looks at methis guy, she as this guy, she
looks at me as this guy instead.
Yeah, that is, it's.
It's hard to come up withsomething that's that big, that
will reframe you in that way,and it's also anxiety inducing
to think, okay, I've got to dothis.
And then there's also a biggerpotential for the downside of oh
you, you were never my friend,you've just always been
(15:55):
interested in me, but you'vebeen afraid to tell me that's
kind of a bummer and that turnsme off and that makes you
unattractive to me.
So, yeah, there's.
It's much better to start offby being the kind of person that
the woman, women that you'reinterested in, find exciting,
find interesting, than it is toget to know them very, very well
(16:15):
and then decide one day.
Oh, I've got to be exciting nowbecause I want her to turn on a
dime and start looking at me asa man that she's attracted to.
So don't do that.
That is a failing strategy.
The idea of I'm going to cozyup to this person and be in her
life as often and as much as Ican and help her move and watch
(16:36):
her cat when she's out of townand do all these nice things
that a buddy would do, and thenat some point, either she's
going to decide that she's inlove with me or I'm going to
have some grand romantic gesturethat tries to convince her that
I'm boyfriend material.
Dan (16:51):
Yeah, I think.
I think the thing to thinkabout here is the trust that you
are creating or getting or orreducing in that relationship.
And it's really important tobegin that relationship where
you know, yes, they, they don'ttrust you with everything, but
(17:13):
they, they trust the intentionsthat you are coming across with
right, and that's that's thetrust that they are coming
across with Right, and that'sthe trust that they are having.
And I think a lot of timeswomen talk about getting the ick
and when it be guys.
And I think that's when the guydoes something that is out of
character for them Correct,right, you know like, oh, he
just gave you an ick, likeeverything's going well, but he
does one little thing and all ofa sudden they have the ick.
(17:33):
And it's because he's behavingin a way that is inconsistent
from the impression that healready gave.
I think, yeah, I think it's.
Charles (17:40):
If I had to try to describe it yeah, it's, you're
right, and and the goal shouldbe just be yourself all the time
.
Now that be yourself, be a goodversion of yourself that you've
worked hard to build.
Yeah, not just the the beyourself.
Dan (17:56):
Advice is not an excuse to be lazy right is that the show
up in sweat how you're likelounging around your house,
right, Like exactly.
Charles (18:02):
Like, yeah, be yourself , should be.
I'm a guy who who puts someeffort and work into my first
impressions.
I'm a guy who puts some effortand work into it's the way I
dress, the way I communicate,yeah.
Dan (18:14):
It's, it's be yourself, not make yourself at home.
Okay, it's be yourself, notmake yourself at home.
Okay, let's be clear.
Charles (18:18):
Exactly.
Yeah, don't be the laziestversion of yourself.
It's work hard to be yourselfand then do it.
Put in the effort to figure outwho you are and an act to that
(18:39):
you find yourself having to tomaintain, because that just
communicates a lack ofconfidence.
I mean, there are things I doon a daily basis that I was just
thinking yesterday one of thethings that I've read online
that can give women the ick aman eating an ice cream cone I
never even thought about that.
(19:00):
The cup is okay, right, but notnot picking on an ice cream cone
.
Dan (19:04):
I could see that being like a, like a little kid, like a
little boy ish type of thingwhere you can kind of get a
little bit of an ick from thatyeah okay, yeah I could see it.
Charles (19:13):
I don't care like ice cream cones any.
Any girl that gets the ick fromme enjoying an ice cream cone,
she's not the girl we'rebasically gonna have Any girl
that gets the ick from meenjoying an ice cream cone she's
not the girl.
We're basically going to have toput that in the cup and the
cone on.
Absolutely not, oh, no, god, no, it ripped on me.
It turned off 99 women out of100.
I'd still eat ice cream conesbecause I like them, so I don't
care, I'll hold out, but GoogleI that'd be the top 10 things I
(19:37):
wouldn't give from the Chad GBT.
Dan (19:39):
What gives him a bit?
What gives me a?
Charles (19:41):
we should, yeah, but whatever it is about the, the,
the jokes I laugh at the, theway I am with animals, the way I
am with Taylor Swift music, Imean there's a whole lot of
those things that plenty ofwomen can be like.
Oh, I mean, there's a whole lotof those things that plenty of
women can be like, oh, I can'tbelieve he's into that.
Good, you should know that.
The sooner you know that aboutme, the less time we're going to
(20:01):
waste of each other.
Dan (20:02):
Right, you can Right.
I mean, if that's what you like, then own it and like it, and
you'll find somebody who alsoappreciates that about you.
Charles (20:11):
Yeah, I have no interest.
There is no girl.
Girl, that is pretty enough forme to spend the time and ever
pretending that I'm somebody.
I'm not.
Yeah, that she doesn't exist.
I mean, think of the hottestcelebrity, the girl that you
think's the prettiest in theworld for me.
She's not pretty enough for meto well, that's my girlfriend,
so I mean yeah, yourgirlfriend's not pretty enough
for me to act like I'm not me,which she will attest to when we
(20:34):
hang out.
At no point your girlfriendever thought charles is acting
like somebody.
He's not correct.
Dan (20:41):
I'm absolutely correct well , you got respect for that yeah
and I.
Charles (20:45):
I was in a class recently where me and the other
people in the class gave eachother feedback on how we sort of
come across and how we presentourselves and from the anonymous
feedback I got, it would seemto be there was one person in
the group of 10 or 11.
That kind of wasn't into me andat first it bothered me a
little bit.
I was like man, I can't believethey said that about me.
(21:06):
But then I thought you knowwhat if I'm in a room of 10
people and one person is not onboard with how I am acting or
who I am amazing.
Dan (21:14):
Completely fine with listen I've heard one time if heard
one time if you go through lifethinking everybody's going to
agree with you on stuff, thenyou're completely deluded
Because a landslide victory in apolitical campaign is 51% to
49% on a presidential race.
So go out into life thinkingmost people are not going to
(21:35):
agree with you.
If you find one that does likeand it's a, or if you find one
out of every two, that's amazing.
Like so I think the problem iswe always want to.
We're coming again from ourprimitive brains.
We want to be liked by thegroup.
So, yeah, our brains areseeking out approval from
everybody.
So we got one person.
That's why negative feedbackstings so much harder.
(21:55):
Like a hundred good comment,right, even the one bad one
you're with yeah, exactly andthat's amazing.
So, yeah, well, 90 of the peopleliked you okay yeah, they're
pretty good.
Charles (22:06):
Yeah, that is pretty good, and I would think even,
but you still spent timewondering why and like what
happened?
Dan (22:13):
did I do something?
Whatever I'm get, that'snatural.
I mean our brains do thatexactly.
Charles (22:17):
but you gotta, you gotta be okay with the idea that
when you're being yourself,you're not going to appeal to
everybody and that might be evena great witness.
Dan (22:26):
Test is to say hey you know what, if everybody likes me,
maybe I'm not being my authenticself, maybe I'll.
Maybe I am leaningunconsciously, trying to please
too many people.
Maybe more people shouldn'tlike me.
Charles (22:40):
Yeah, I would say and I speak for myself on that,
because I tend to do that too-yeah, I would say if everybody
likes you, then yeah, you'reeither being inauthentic or I
would say that the majority ofthe cases you're being
inauthentic.
I guess there's a chance youjust might be super boring.
Dan (22:58):
I mean For whatever reason.
Charles (23:00):
Reason I mean it could be any number of reasons why
they don't like you, I'll saywhen everybody does like you,
I'll say it if ever, ifabsolutely everybody likes you,
you're either being inauthenticor you'll be, or you're just a
very boring person, and and Iwould say I don't think anybody
is actually that boring, I thinkthey're just going to be
expressing everything Correct,exactly, yes, I think.
(23:23):
I think inauthenticity is themore sure path to everybody
liking you, but liking you in acasual way, not liking you in a
deeply connected way.
I think when, when you showyourself to people for who you
really are, there's going to besome people who are just like,
that's not my kind of person.
Not like, oh, he's a terribleperson or he's a scumbag or
anything, but just like, eh,charles, I could take it or
(23:45):
leave it, he's, he's fine, Iguess, but he's not my kind of
guy.
It's okay for people to havethat opinion.
Dan (23:50):
That doesn't define the one person like were they giving
you like comments on things?
Well?
Charles (23:57):
it was comments across multiple exercises and I just
there was always one that had acertain vibe to it and I assumed
it was the same person.
Okay, could have been differentpeople, that I wasn't an expert
nobody kind of like you is justin the voice that it was written
and the way that it sounded, II kind of got the vibe like,
okay, there's one person whothinks, okay, I might be a
(24:19):
little bit of a prick and I am alittle bit of a prick, so it's
okay.
If one out of ten people catchthat, it means you're authentic
yeah that's fine.
Yeah, yeah, at first I was like,oh, I can't believe it.
And like, oh, yeah, now I canbelieve it.
Yeah, I just gotta think.
I just had to think about itfor a second.
I was like, yeah, I could seethe way, see the way I dress,
the way I talk, the things I say, the jokes.
(24:39):
I tell it's completelyreasonable for 10% of people to
be like, no thanks.
Dan (24:44):
You could please 90% of the people 100% of the time.
Yeah, you need to run.
Charles (24:49):
Well, I feel like, yeah , I feel like even more time and
more social time with me, thenumber would have gone down.
That's fine, that's a-okay.
I do want to tell you aboutsome.
I was at a conference lastweekend and the conference
included these little lunchpasses where you got to enjoy a
(25:09):
buffet lunch on Friday andSaturday.
You get in line, you'd walkthrough the buffet, you'd
prepare your plate and thenthere was just a big room around
banquet tables where you justgo sit down and eat with
strangers and I skipped lunch onboth days because I did not
want to do that.
Oh man, it was.
(25:30):
I wouldn't say it was socialanxiety, I guess I wouldn't say
it was social.
I just like, oh, I'm not doingthat.
It wasn't like, oh, I'm scaredto do that.
Oh, I'm not doing that.
It wasn't like, oh, I'm scaredto do that.
Oh, I feel uncomfortable.
It's just like I'm not doingthat.
I did think to myself.
I wonder if this is somethingthat I could or should work on
at some point, where the idea ofjust being turned off by
sitting down with strangers issomething that I should maybe
(25:52):
work on why, why would it beimportant?
there could be a goodconversation that okay add with
a person that I did not yet know, okay, where it was.
It's funny though, cause, likein the, I guess it's not funny
in the breakout sessions of thisconference I had no problem,
like I tried to sit in the frontrow for everyone because I
wanted to be closer to theinstructor, I wanted to be
(26:12):
closer to the action.
I think it also does.
It communicates a level ofinterest to the speaker, like,
oh, this is, this person wantsto sit in the front row.
I have no problem sitting inthe front row, sitting next to
someone and even having somelittle comment or remark, or hey
, how's it going?
Or what I introduced.
Not really introducing myself, Iwouldn't do that, but I'd make
(26:33):
some sort of an introductorystatement.
That didn't bother me becausethe pressure was so much lower,
because hey, we're, we'retalking for two minutes and then
the person's going to start thepresentation.
We don't have to talk anymore.
So I'm down for that.
Yeah, the idea of sitting downat lunch next to strangers and
having them want to talk to meand me being expected to talk
back to them, and even ifthey're boring or weird.
(26:54):
I still have to talk to thembecause we're sitting here with
a plate full of food until it'sgone.
Yeah, yeah, that was that doesnot appeal to me, so I'm trying
to decide, should that matter?
Dan (27:03):
And should.
Charles (27:04):
I change it?
Or should I just be like okay,that's just how I am.
Dan (27:07):
Yeah, I guess you gotta figure out what your why would
be Is it.
Is it worth it for you to workon that?
Charles (27:17):
What would you potentially be getting out of
that?
I guess at a professionalconference there's potential to
meet somebody that I may want towork with in the future and
they may want to work with me.
Good point, okay, it couldfairly directly go straight to
money in my pocket, yeah, and sothat's a pretty good why.
Dan (27:35):
And I feel like this is pretty low investment.
You're just sitting thereeating something and you don't
even have to say anything,anybody else.
If somebody asks you a question, okay, yeah, or you can
overhear something.
Charles (27:47):
That'd be my approach yeah, if I'm sitting at a table
of people, though I would feellike it would be, and we've
thought about this before.
When you put yourself intosocial situations, sometimes the
downside of mishandling them isworse than not putting yourself
in the situation at all.
Could be so if I sat down thereand I was the guy that was just
playing on his phone the wholetime while the whole table was
(28:08):
talking to each other and I'mjust kind of isolating and stuff
, it would be better if I neversat down at the table as far as
the impact on my reputation andmy career as far as the impact
on my reputation and my career,the people that were there.
Dan (28:21):
Was it similar to like a podcast conference where
everybody was kind of outgoingAt the podcast conference?
I mean, that's, peopleinterview people and connect
with people for a living.
That's what they do, that'strue.
I was just curious Did you getthe same vibe from the people at
this conference where they werekind of because it was so easy
for me to connect and talk topeople at the podcast conference
?
It was a lot different, comingfrom the Nike conferences we've
(28:42):
been to when we were previously,where it was really awkward all
the time because nobody waskind of used to working with
machines, not necessarily people, right, Difference with this
conference and I don't want toget too specific, but I will say
the mix of attendees.
Charles (28:59):
There were people at the comp, there were people at
the comp.
Essentially, when you go to apodcast conference, there's not
like you're not going to have athousand potential listeners sit
down at the table next to you,where you feel a little bit like
, oh, if I come across the rightway, this could lead to.
This could lead to a big bumpin our business where, at this
(29:20):
conference, there were somepeople in the, there were some
people in the attendance that itwas like, man, if they, if they
, if they take a shine to me,that could have a major impact
on my career.
Okay, and if they, if I comeacross as the previously
mentioned, prick to this person,that could really hurt my
career opportunities.
(29:40):
So the stakes are a little bithigher and, yes, everybody was
outdoing, everybody was nice,but the stakes are a little bit
higher and, yes, everybody wasoutdoing.
Everybody was nice, but it wasalso a little bit of pressure of
if I come across in a way tothese people that is not great,
then they could.
Dan (29:55):
How many people were at the conference?
Charles (29:57):
Good question.
Dan (29:58):
I'm just wondering.
I would think it would be 500to 1,000?
.
I would think it would be asmaller to a thousand.
I would think I would be asmaller industry.
That podcasting no or not?
I mean it's been around long,Maybe it's not, I don't know.
I was just curious.
Charles (30:11):
Good question.
Dan (30:11):
Curious, I don't know.
Charles (30:13):
Okay, yeah, but anyway, that's getting late.
We should stop soon, yeah.
Just, I think the message ofthis one is be confident, be
authentic and be willing to takesome risks, and it will make
you more attractive and havebetter results with the kind of
people that you are interestedin attracting, where, if you shy
(30:34):
away from being authentic andtaking some risk and being
direct about what you're lookingfor, it's going to turn people
off and your results are goingto go down.
So so don't play it safe theway.
Don't do what you think is safe, cause in the longterm much
like hiding money under yourmattress is inflation is going
to take away all your money.
(30:55):
Yeah, if you just do that right,we're playing it safe with
interactions with women.
Eventually it's going to takeaway all your money with women.
Eventually it's going to takeaway all your money.
You're going to look back 20years ago and say, man, I wish I
took some risks because I got alot of girls that I have
crushes on, who think I'm theirfriend and nothing else.
That's a shitty place to be.
Dan (31:14):
Yeah, yeah.
The other thing too is agetakes a toll on us all and as we
get older and we're going tohave less ability to, I feel, be
young and vibrant and andhealthy, and so we might have a
little bit more work as we getolder in terms of being able to
make those connections and andfoster that attraction.
(31:37):
So I'm not saying you can't,I'll, but it's definitely easier
when you've got the side oftime on your side.
Charles (31:47):
Yeah, and even if you feel like you're old because
you're 50, 60, 70 years oldlistening to this, the best time
to plant a tree was 20 yearsago.
The second best time is rightnow.
Right, so we're all, we're all.
The arrow of time moves in onedirection for all of us.
So now is is always, whereveryou're at, is always the best
time to start, and so read thisbook, get started.
That's it for us, and the firsthalf of dating essentials for
(32:09):
men.
We will come back with our nextepisode on a different topic,
which we're going to surpriseyou with, so I'm excited for
that too.
Yeah, so listen and you'll seewhat it is next time.
Thanks, dan, bye-bye, bye.
You'll see what it is next time.
Thanks, dan, bye-bye, bye.
All right, there's anotherepisode and another subject in
the books.
Thanks so much for listening tothe whole thing.
We certainly appreciate it.
(32:29):
Again, check out our website,mindfullymasculinecom, where you
can find our full episodes inboth audio and video format.
Thanks, and we'll talk to younext time.
Yeah, I would say, if everybody likes you, then yeah,
you're either being an authenticor I would say that the
majority of the cases you'rebeing an authentic, the other I
guess there's a chance you justmight be super boring, I mean.
Dan (00:14):
For whatever reason.
I mean, it could be any numberof reasons why they don't like
you, I'll say when everybodydoes like you, I'll say it.
Charles (00:21):
If absolutely everybody likes you, you're either being
an authentic or you're just avery boring person.
All right, welcome back to theMindfully Masculine podcast.
This is Charles.
In this episode, dan and I willfinish our discussion of part
one of Dating Essentials for Menby Dr Robert Glover, and the
topics we address will includeniceness versus kindness,
(00:44):
honesty and authenticity,confidence and status,
competence and attraction, thefear of rejection, avoiding the
friend zone.
Authentic can find our fullaudio and video episodes and
anything else we decide to putup there, which is not much
right now other than our audioand video episodes.
(01:04):
Thanks and enjoy hey, charleshow are you?
I'm okay, dan, thank you.
Let's get into chapter 10.
This is our last chapter offirst part of dating essentials
for men by dr robert glover.
This one has the cringy titleof activating women's basic
(01:28):
biological urges not supercringy, not the cringiest thing
in this book, but still kind ofall right.
So we're going to discuss whythings like confidence and
sexual intent are key toattraction and why in in either
(01:49):
suppressing or or not givingadequate space to these
characteristics, where we'redoing worse with the ladies than
we have to.
So first let's talk about thelie of nicenesseness, and if you
want to figure out how theimpulse or the drive to be nice
(02:11):
can definitely hurt men andlimit their positive outcomes,
read no More.
Mr Nice Guy by Dr Robert Glover,first book that he really got
famous for, talks about that alot, lot.
And let's let's adequatelydefine niceness versus kindness.
Where kindness is the, kindnessis the goal.
(02:32):
Kindness is the, the way thatyou should be and should appear
to people.
You should, you should appearto be a kind person and a kind
man.
Where niceness is trying toappear kind, for all the
benefits without manuallyauthenticity.
Yeah.
So a nice guy is a guy who'strying to look kind even though
(02:53):
he's not, and that not only isthat usually seen right through.
Real quick it's uh, it's hardto maintain it.
It leads to acting out, itleads to resentment and leads to
blowups.
It leads to feeling like you'rebeing taken advantage of.
Niceness is not the goal here.
Dan (03:10):
You're putting on an act.
Charles (03:11):
Yes, the goal is to be a legitimate, a genuinely kind
person, not to be someone wholooks like they're kind when
when it helps them, okay.
So keep in mind that when wetalk about nice guys especially
when you hear the term in anegative connotation yeah, it's
talking about a guy who'splaying it safe to get what he
wants out of people, notsomebody who is legitimately
(03:33):
selfless or kind.
Those are positive attributesthat everybody is able to admire
, respect and be attracted to,where doing it in a way where
you're trying to get somethingout of it is the opposite.
Dan (03:48):
And the kind of another way to think about this is when
somebody tries to set you upwith somebody and you ask them
to describe them to you.
If they were to tell you thatoh they're nice versus oh
they're kind To me, inherentlythose words have significantly
different impressions in my mindin terms of who that person is
(04:11):
For me as well.
Charles (04:12):
Yeah, yeah, there's just a.
There's a.
There's a weakness and ablandness to the term nice.
That is not.
Dan (04:20):
It's like yeah, I don't know what else to say, so I'm
going to kind of cover up anyimperfections by saying that
they're nice.
Charles (04:27):
Yeah.
So let's, let's learn to and inpart of the, you can be a very
kind person and also be a veryhonest and direct person.
Where, with niceness there'sthere's just an implication of
that You're not really thatdirect and you're not really
that honest.
You're nice and and that'sanother reason that you should
(04:51):
shy away from behaving in a waythat gets you labeled as nice,
and that's the thing.
Honesty and directness are veryattractive.
That's something that when,when somebody is honest and
direct, there's sort of a anunspoken message of I'm going to
be me and if you don't like it,that's okay.
Dan (05:11):
I have self-confidence in myself and what I'm, what I'm
conveying to you.
Charles (05:15):
Yes, where the opposites being dishonest.
I was having this discussionwith a friend the other day,
like why is it that people aredishonest?
Why is it that people lie?
And I think the core of that isa belief of if Dan knows the
truth about me, then the world'snot as safe for me, the world
(05:39):
doesn't have as many options forme.
So I'm going to hide the truthfrom dan so that I can have a
little bit more control over howthe world is and I can feel
safer where.
If, if you don't have thatinsecurity, if you're not
worried about what you know ohthanks, because the truth about
me is known and dan thinks aboutme in the way that I really am
(06:01):
then that's going to take awayoptions and that's going to take
away resources from me.
So if you can live your lifeand be like no, I don't care who
knows the truth about me, I amwhat I am, and if everybody
knows it, I'll be okay, anyway,that is inherently more
attractive and desirable becauseyou're not.
You're not living your life ina way that you're you're in
(06:22):
danger of being found out andyeah, that is.
That's an exhausting way tolive.
Dan (06:27):
Yeah.
Charles (06:28):
Yeah, like, oh, if they knew who I really was, they'd
all hate me, or the very least,they wouldn't love me.
Is is not a way to live yourlife.
Dan (06:36):
And it's, and again, you're making assumptions.
The same thing that we talkedabout recently, too, is is you
are your brain is going to worstcase scenario, because that's
what it does.
Based on not enough information, you don't know how that other
person's going to necessarilythink or react based on you have
an idea, based on what you'resaying, but you have an idea,
but you don't know for sure.
Charles (06:58):
And you're doing yourself a disservice because
you're now taking a risk ofacting on your inaccurate or not
complete information andthere's consequences for that
yeah, and I I think we all, Imean at least most of us
(07:18):
struggle from time to time withfeelings of what if I'm not
prepared?
What if I'm not good enough?
What if they don't look at melike I'm worthy of fill in the
blank?
But to think that way and thentry to fix that problem or
manage that problem or sue that,however you want it, whatever
language you want to use bysaying, oh, if I just tell
(07:39):
things that aren't true aboutmyself, then I can avoid those
problems, that's the jump.
Years ago I decided I'm notgoing to ever make that jump.
I'm not going to.
Yes, I might feel like I'munprepared or well ill-prepared
or not good enough for fill inthe blank, but I'm never going
to try to mitigate that by lyingabout it.
(07:59):
Oh yeah, and that really doessimplify your life.
And and also just adopting apolicy I'm going to tell the
truth all the time, no matterwhat, does make you less anxious
in some ways of okay, I'm justtaking this, this maladaptive
behavior that I know won't workfor me in the longterm.
I'm taking it off the tablecompletely.
So I'm just not going to lie topeople, I'm going to tell them
(08:21):
the truth and then I'll dealwith whatever happens as a
result of that.
It does make life quite a biteasier and it does allow you to
go through life with a certainlevel of confidence too, to say
a bit easier, and it does allowyou to go through life with a
certain level of confidence too,to say, yes, there's.
Things are never going to get sobad that I feel like I have to
lie about it.
They just don't get that badfor me.
I mean, fortunately I'm not.
I'm not having not nazisknocking on my door asking me if
(08:44):
I've seen anne frank it's morelike hey, hey, charles, did you
forget to?
you told me you fixed mycomputer today.
Did you forget to do it?
Yeah, sorry, I did, instead ofoh, yeah, I fixed it, it's not
what happened, it's not working.
Oh, that's weird.
And this broke after I left.
Yeah, I never find myself in aposition having those
conversations because I'm justnot willing to do it.
(09:13):
Okay, the number one aphrodisiacthat Dr Glover mentions is
confidence.
Women in particular respond toconfidence in a way that is hard
for us to understand.
Sometimes, when you behave in away that communicates you're a
secure person to be around andyou're a confident person to be
around, the natural conclusionof that is oh, this is a man of
higher status than the otherpeople around him, and that's
(09:36):
the interesting thing aboutstatus is it is so context
dependent where to have highstatus, you don't have to be
famous.
You don't have to be a powerfulpolitician.
You don't have to have aFerrari in your garage or a
Rolex on your wrist.
You just have to be in thesituation that you're currently
(09:56):
in.
You just have to be the amongthe most well-regarded people
and he uses examples in thisbook even if you're in a
Dungeons and Dragons group thatmeets on a regular basis.
If you just know your crap andyou're better at it than the
other people in the group, thenyou've you've got status in that
group so it can be in your yourboard game club, it can be in
(10:21):
your run group, it can be inwhatever group you volunteer
with and this is this is my.
My advice to young men inparticular is just find
something that you're intoenough to get really good at it,
and it doesn't matter what itis, whether it's a game, a
physical activity, a hobby, avolunteer opportunity, a church
(10:43):
group, whatever it is.
Care about it enough that you,that you want to learn about it
and get good at it and practiceat it, and you will have the
kind of status that will attracta potential partner and new
friends.
Dan (10:56):
And you're going to be doing something you enjoy along
the way Exactly.
It's not going to be a struggleto get there.
Charles (11:00):
Exactly.
And when it comes to keeping itin context of I'd like to meet
new people for romanticpossibilities, then, yes, maybe
also factor in not just is thissomething that I'm going to
enjoy, but is this something I'mgoing to enjoy that the boys or
girls that I'm interested inalso enjoy?
And keep that in mind.
(11:21):
If it's, if it's something, ifyou're into girls and you're in
a hobby that there are literallyzero girls showing up for, then
keep that hobby, but also thinkabout maybe adding one that has
a little bit more participationfrom the kind of people that
you're interested in, Right?
Dan (11:35):
Right.
And if you struggle withconfidence, you can borrow what
you've built in the previousarea.
That might not have a lot ofwisdom.
You borrow that confidence andyou borrow that memory that you
started at some place.
Charles (11:49):
I used to be a complete rookie at this thing complete
newbie, and I'm not anymore.
Dan (11:54):
I have the skill set to get better at something and become
really good at it, and so I justneed to apply that skill set to
this new endeavor.
Charles (12:01):
Yeah, that relationship between confidence and
competence is.
It's unbreakable.
And the more time you spendgetting competent at something,
the more confident you'll feelwhen you do it.
And and the more time you spendgetting competent at something,
the more confident you'll feelwhen you do it.
And the more confident you feel, the more likely people are
going to be like, oh, he lookslike he enjoys this and is good
at it.
That's the kind of person Iwant to be around, because maybe
(12:26):
I'm new at this and I'd like tolearn from somebody more
experienced than me.
And yeah, start with.
The confidence is portable, thecompetence not so much.
I mean you can bring confidencefrom another area into the new
area.
The competence, it only growsby the reps.
You just got to that new thingthat you're first trying.
You're not going to becompetent until you practice at
it and get good at it, but theconfidence, like you said, you
(12:47):
can't borrow from other domains.
Dan (12:49):
And that signals to other people that you can build that
competence in other areas.
Right, it's the potential.
I think Glover or somebody elsehad said basically, a lot of
the most attractive traits thatmen can display for women is not
necessarily being successful,it's having the potential to be
successful, having thatpotential to achieve the things
(13:11):
that you want to in life and byhaving confidence in one area.
That signals that you have theability to build competence in
whatever area or in a number ofdifferent areas, and I think
that also tends to be anattractive quality and trait
that it might be.
It's kind of be under thesurface a little bit in terms of
(13:34):
why people or why women wouldbe attracted to yeah.
Charles (13:38):
I it's.
It's interesting how we are themore interested we are in a
girl, the more afraid we seem tobe to express that interest and
the more scared we are whereit's so I mean it's counter I
mean it's counterintuitive rightwe're in how it runs counter to
success.
Sure, I was trying to say yeah,it's, it's.
It's like we build up thesestakes in our mind and the more
(14:03):
we want the thing, the lesslikely we are to behave in the
way that gets us the thing wewant so much.
And and that's one of thethings that he tries to reframe
in this book and in this chapteris this idea of you can't
pretend to be uninterested in agirl and expect her to be
interested in you.
Part of what gets herinterested in you is the fact
(14:24):
that you're willing tocommunicate your interest in her
, and the more you try to hidethat because of your fear of
rejection or whatever, the lessattractive she's going to be.
Now he says something in thischapter, and the way he says it
I don't completely agree with.
He says women don't sleep withmen that they know they get to
know the men that they want tosleep with.
(14:46):
I'm a guy who's been friendswith a woman who I eventually
started dating.
What I would say more than thisis women don't find the men
they already know to be exciting.
Women want to get to know themen that they find exciting.
So if you're already in arelationship where you've
(15:12):
basically painted yourself intoa fairly boring role in this
person's life, the amount ofanxiety that it would sort of
create in you to think, oh, I'vegot to do something exciting.
So she sees me in a completelydifferent way, like a guy who
has put himself in the friendzone.
It's very hard to say I've gotto do something so big, yeah.
And so brandios, grant, yeah,like, so such a grand gesture
(15:33):
that she no longer looks at methis guy, she as this guy, she
looks at me as this guy instead.
Yeah, that is, it's.
It's hard to come up withsomething that's that big, that
will reframe you in that way,and it's also anxiety inducing
to think, okay, I've got to dothis.
And then there's also a biggerpotential for the downside of oh
you, you were never my friend,you've just always been
(15:55):
interested in me, but you'vebeen afraid to tell me that's
kind of a bummer and that turnsme off and that makes you
unattractive to me.
So, yeah, there's.
It's much better to start offby being the kind of person that
the woman, women that you'reinterested in, find exciting,
find interesting, than it is toget to know them very, very well
(16:15):
and then decide one day.
Oh, I've got to be exciting nowbecause I want her to turn on a
dime and start looking at me asa man that she's attracted to.
So don't do that.
That is a failing strategy.
The idea of I'm going to cozyup to this person and be in her
life as often and as much as Ican and help her move and watch
(16:36):
her cat when she's out of townand do all these nice things
that a buddy would do, and thenat some point, either she's
going to decide that she's inlove with me or I'm going to
have some grand romantic gesturethat tries to convince her that
I'm boyfriend material.
Dan (16:51):
Yeah, I think.
I think the thing to thinkabout here is the trust that you
are creating or getting or orreducing in that relationship.
And it's really important tobegin that relationship where
you know, yes, they, they don'ttrust you with everything, but
(17:13):
they, they trust the intentionsthat you are coming across with
right, and that's that's thetrust that they are coming
across with Right, and that'sthe trust that they are having.
And I think a lot of timeswomen talk about getting the ick
and when it be guys.
And I think that's when the guydoes something that is out of
character for them Correct,right, you know like, oh, he
just gave you an ick, likeeverything's going well, but he
does one little thing and all ofa sudden they have the ick.
(17:33):
And it's because he's behavingin a way that is inconsistent
from the impression that healready gave.
I think, yeah, I think it's.
Charles (17:40):
If I had to try to describe it yeah, it's, you're
right, and and the goal shouldbe just be yourself all the time
.
Now that be yourself, be a goodversion of yourself that you've
worked hard to build.
Yeah, not just the the beyourself.
Dan (17:56):
Advice is not an excuse to be lazy right is that the show
up in sweat how you're likelounging around your house,
right, Like exactly.
Charles (18:02):
Like, yeah, be yourself , should be.
I'm a guy who who puts someeffort and work into my first
impressions.
I'm a guy who puts some effortand work into it's the way I
dress, the way I communicate,yeah.
Dan (18:14):
It's, it's be yourself, not make yourself at home.
Okay, it's be yourself, notmake yourself at home.
Okay, let's be clear.
Charles (18:18):
Exactly.
Yeah, don't be the laziestversion of yourself.
It's work hard to be yourselfand then do it.
Put in the effort to figure outwho you are and an act to that
(18:39):
you find yourself having to tomaintain, because that just
communicates a lack ofconfidence.
I mean, there are things I doon a daily basis that I was just
thinking yesterday one of thethings that I've read online
that can give women the ick aman eating an ice cream cone I
never even thought about that.
(19:00):
The cup is okay, right, but notnot picking on an ice cream cone
.
Dan (19:04):
I could see that being like a, like a little kid, like a
little boy ish type of thingwhere you can kind of get a
little bit of an ick from thatyeah okay, yeah I could see it.
Charles (19:13):
I don't care like ice cream cones any.
Any girl that gets the ick fromme enjoying an ice cream cone,
she's not the girl we'rebasically gonna have Any girl
that gets the ick from meenjoying an ice cream cone she's
not the girl.
We're basically going to have toput that in the cup and the
cone on.
Absolutely not, oh, no, god, no, it ripped on me.
It turned off 99 women out of100.
I'd still eat ice cream conesbecause I like them, so I don't
care, I'll hold out, but GoogleI that'd be the top 10 things I
(19:37):
wouldn't give from the Chad GBT.
Dan (19:39):
What gives him a bit?
What gives me a?
Charles (19:41):
we should, yeah, but whatever it is about the, the,
the jokes I laugh at the, theway I am with animals, the way I
am with Taylor Swift music, Imean there's a whole lot of
those things that plenty ofwomen can be like.
Oh, I mean, there's a whole lotof those things that plenty of
women can be like, oh, I can'tbelieve he's into that.
Good, you should know that.
The sooner you know that aboutme, the less time we're going to
(20:01):
waste of each other.
Dan (20:02):
Right, you can Right.
I mean, if that's what you like, then own it and like it, and
you'll find somebody who alsoappreciates that about you.
Charles (20:11):
Yeah, I have no interest.
There is no girl.
Girl, that is pretty enough forme to spend the time and ever
pretending that I'm somebody.
I'm not.
Yeah, that she doesn't exist.
I mean, think of the hottestcelebrity, the girl that you
think's the prettiest in theworld for me.
She's not pretty enough for meto well, that's my girlfriend,
so I mean yeah, yourgirlfriend's not pretty enough
for me to act like I'm not me,which she will attest to when we
(20:34):
hang out.
At no point your girlfriendever thought charles is acting
like somebody.
He's not correct.
Dan (20:41):
I'm absolutely correct well , you got respect for that yeah
and I.
Charles (20:45):
I was in a class recently where me and the other
people in the class gave eachother feedback on how we sort of
come across and how we presentourselves and from the anonymous
feedback I got, it would seemto be there was one person in
the group of 10 or 11.
That kind of wasn't into me andat first it bothered me a
little bit.
I was like man, I can't believethey said that about me.
(21:06):
But then I thought you knowwhat if I'm in a room of 10
people and one person is not onboard with how I am acting or
who I am amazing.
Dan (21:14):
Completely fine with listen I've heard one time if heard
one time if you go through lifethinking everybody's going to
agree with you on stuff, thenyou're completely deluded
Because a landslide victory in apolitical campaign is 51% to
49% on a presidential race.
So go out into life thinkingmost people are not going to
(21:35):
agree with you.
If you find one that does likeand it's a, or if you find one
out of every two, that's amazing.
Like so I think the problem iswe always want to.
We're coming again from ourprimitive brains.
We want to be liked by thegroup.
So, yeah, our brains areseeking out approval from
everybody.
So we got one person.
That's why negative feedbackstings so much harder.
(21:55):
Like a hundred good comment,right, even the one bad one
you're with yeah, exactly andthat's amazing.
So, yeah, well, 90 of the peopleliked you okay yeah, they're
pretty good.
Charles (22:06):
Yeah, that is pretty good, and I would think even,
but you still spent timewondering why and like what
happened?
Dan (22:13):
did I do something?
Whatever I'm get, that'snatural.
I mean our brains do thatexactly.
Charles (22:17):
but you gotta, you gotta be okay with the idea that
when you're being yourself,you're not going to appeal to
everybody and that might be evena great witness.
Dan (22:26):
Test is to say hey you know what, if everybody likes me,
maybe I'm not being my authenticself, maybe I'll.
Maybe I am leaningunconsciously, trying to please
too many people.
Maybe more people shouldn'tlike me.
Charles (22:40):
Yeah, I would say and I speak for myself on that,
because I tend to do that too-yeah, I would say if everybody
likes you, then yeah, you'reeither being inauthentic or I
would say that the majority ofthe cases you're being
inauthentic.
I guess there's a chance youjust might be super boring.
Dan (22:58):
I mean For whatever reason.
Charles (23:00):
Reason I mean it could be any number of reasons why
they don't like you, I'll saywhen everybody does like you,
I'll say it if ever, ifabsolutely everybody likes you,
you're either being inauthenticor you'll be, or you're just a
very boring person, and and Iwould say I don't think anybody
is actually that boring, I thinkthey're just going to be
expressing everything Correct,exactly, yes, I think.
(23:23):
I think inauthenticity is themore sure path to everybody
liking you, but liking you in acasual way, not liking you in a
deeply connected way.
I think when, when you showyourself to people for who you
really are, there's going to besome people who are just like,
that's not my kind of person.
Not like, oh, he's a terribleperson or he's a scumbag or
anything, but just like, eh,charles, I could take it or
(23:45):
leave it, he's, he's fine, Iguess, but he's not my kind of
guy.
It's okay for people to havethat opinion.
Dan (23:50):
That doesn't define the one person like were they giving
you like comments on things?
Well?
Charles (23:57):
it was comments across multiple exercises and I just
there was always one that had acertain vibe to it and I assumed
it was the same person.
Okay, could have been differentpeople, that I wasn't an expert
nobody kind of like you is justin the voice that it was written
and the way that it sounded, II kind of got the vibe like,
okay, there's one person whothinks, okay, I might be a
(24:19):
little bit of a prick and I am alittle bit of a prick, so it's
okay.
If one out of ten people catchthat, it means you're authentic
yeah that's fine.
Yeah, yeah, at first I was like,oh, I can't believe it.
And like, oh, yeah, now I canbelieve it.
Yeah, I just gotta think.
I just had to think about itfor a second.
I was like, yeah, I could seethe way, see the way I dress,
the way I talk, the things I say, the jokes.
(24:39):
I tell it's completelyreasonable for 10% of people to
be like, no thanks.
Dan (24:44):
You could please 90% of the people 100% of the time.
Yeah, you need to run.
Charles (24:49):
Well, I feel like, yeah , I feel like even more time and
more social time with me, thenumber would have gone down.
That's fine, that's a-okay.
I do want to tell you aboutsome.
I was at a conference lastweekend and the conference
included these little lunchpasses where you got to enjoy a
(25:09):
buffet lunch on Friday andSaturday.
You get in line, you'd walkthrough the buffet, you'd
prepare your plate and thenthere was just a big room around
banquet tables where you justgo sit down and eat with
strangers and I skipped lunch onboth days because I did not
want to do that.
Oh man, it was.
(25:30):
I wouldn't say it was socialanxiety, I guess I wouldn't say
it was social.
I just like, oh, I'm not doingthat.
It wasn't like, oh, I'm scaredto do that.
Oh, I'm not doing that.
It wasn't like, oh, I'm scaredto do that.
Oh, I feel uncomfortable.
It's just like I'm not doingthat.
I did think to myself.
I wonder if this is somethingthat I could or should work on
at some point, where the idea ofjust being turned off by
sitting down with strangers issomething that I should maybe
(25:52):
work on why, why would it beimportant?
there could be a goodconversation that okay add with
a person that I did not yet know, okay, where it was.
It's funny though, cause, likein the, I guess it's not funny
in the breakout sessions of thisconference I had no problem,
like I tried to sit in the frontrow for everyone because I
wanted to be closer to theinstructor, I wanted to be
(26:12):
closer to the action.
I think it also does.
It communicates a level ofinterest to the speaker, like,
oh, this is, this person wantsto sit in the front row.
I have no problem sitting inthe front row, sitting next to
someone and even having somelittle comment or remark, or hey
, how's it going?
Or what I introduced.
Not really introducing myself, Iwouldn't do that, but I'd make
(26:33):
some sort of an introductorystatement.
That didn't bother me becausethe pressure was so much lower,
because hey, we're, we'retalking for two minutes and then
the person's going to start thepresentation.
We don't have to talk anymore.
So I'm down for that.
Yeah, the idea of sitting downat lunch next to strangers and
having them want to talk to meand me being expected to talk
back to them, and even ifthey're boring or weird.
(26:54):
I still have to talk to thembecause we're sitting here with
a plate full of food until it'sgone.
Yeah, yeah, that was that doesnot appeal to me, so I'm trying
to decide, should that matter?
Dan (27:03):
And should.
Charles (27:04):
I change it?
Or should I just be like okay,that's just how I am.
Dan (27:07):
Yeah, I guess you gotta figure out what your why would
be Is it.
Is it worth it for you to workon that?
Charles (27:17):
What would you potentially be getting out of
that?
I guess at a professionalconference there's potential to
meet somebody that I may want towork with in the future and
they may want to work with me.
Good point, okay, it couldfairly directly go straight to
money in my pocket, yeah, and sothat's a pretty good why.
Dan (27:35):
And I feel like this is pretty low investment.
You're just sitting thereeating something and you don't
even have to say anything,anybody else.
If somebody asks you a question, okay, yeah, or you can
overhear something.
Charles (27:47):
That'd be my approach yeah, if I'm sitting at a table
of people, though I would feellike it would be, and we've
thought about this before.
When you put yourself intosocial situations, sometimes the
downside of mishandling them isworse than not putting yourself
in the situation at all.
Could be so if I sat down thereand I was the guy that was just
playing on his phone the wholetime while the whole table was
(28:08):
talking to each other and I'mjust kind of isolating and stuff
, it would be better if I neversat down at the table as far as
the impact on my reputation andmy career as far as the impact
on my reputation and my career,the people that were there.
Dan (28:21):
Was it similar to like a podcast conference where
everybody was kind of outgoingAt the podcast conference?
I mean, that's, peopleinterview people and connect
with people for a living.
That's what they do, that'strue.
I was just curious Did you getthe same vibe from the people at
this conference where they werekind of because it was so easy
for me to connect and talk topeople at the podcast conference
?
It was a lot different, comingfrom the Nike conferences we've
(28:42):
been to when we were previously,where it was really awkward all
the time because nobody waskind of used to working with
machines, not necessarily people, right, Difference with this
conference and I don't want toget too specific, but I will say
the mix of attendees.
Charles (28:59):
There were people at the comp, there were people at
the comp.
Essentially, when you go to apodcast conference, there's not
like you're not going to have athousand potential listeners sit
down at the table next to you,where you feel a little bit like
, oh, if I come across the rightway, this could lead to.
This could lead to a big bumpin our business where, at this
(29:20):
conference, there were somepeople in the, there were some
people in the attendance that itwas like, man, if they, if they
, if they take a shine to me,that could have a major impact
on my career.
Okay, and if they, if I comeacross as the previously
mentioned, prick to this person,that could really hurt my
career opportunities.
(29:40):
So the stakes are a little bithigher and, yes, everybody was
outdoing, everybody was nice,but the stakes are a little bit
higher and, yes, everybody wasoutdoing.
Everybody was nice, but it wasalso a little bit of pressure of
if I come across in a way tothese people that is not great,
then they could.
Dan (29:55):
How many people were at the conference?
Charles (29:57):
Good question.
Dan (29:58):
I'm just wondering.
I would think it would be 500to 1,000?
.
I would think it would be asmaller to a thousand.
I would think I would be asmaller industry.
That podcasting no or not?
I mean it's been around long,Maybe it's not, I don't know.
I was just curious.
Charles (30:11):
Good question.
Dan (30:11):
Curious, I don't know.
Charles (30:13):
Okay, yeah, but anyway, that's getting late.
We should stop soon, yeah.
Just, I think the message ofthis one is be confident, be
authentic and be willing to takesome risks, and it will make
you more attractive and havebetter results with the kind of
people that you are interestedin attracting, where, if you shy
(30:34):
away from being authentic andtaking some risk and being
direct about what you're lookingfor, it's going to turn people
off and your results are goingto go down.
So so don't play it safe theway.
Don't do what you think is safe, cause in the longterm much
like hiding money under yourmattress is inflation is going
to take away all your money.
(30:55):
Yeah, if you just do that right,we're playing it safe with
interactions with women.
Eventually it's going to takeaway all your money with women.
Eventually it's going to takeaway all your money.
You're going to look back 20years ago and say, man, I wish I
took some risks because I got alot of girls that I have
crushes on, who think I'm theirfriend and nothing else.
That's a shitty place to be.
Dan (31:14):
Yeah, yeah.
The other thing too is agetakes a toll on us all and as we
get older and we're going tohave less ability to, I feel, be
young and vibrant and andhealthy, and so we might have a
little bit more work as we getolder in terms of being able to
make those connections and andfoster that attraction.
(31:37):
So I'm not saying you can't,I'll, but it's definitely easier
when you've got the side oftime on your side.
Charles (31:47):
Yeah, and even if you feel like you're old because
you're 50, 60, 70 years oldlistening to this, the best time
to plant a tree was 20 yearsago.
The second best time is rightnow.
Right, so we're all, we're all.
The arrow of time moves in onedirection for all of us.
So now is is always, whereveryou're at, is always the best
time to start, and so read thisbook, get started.
That's it for us, and the firsthalf of dating essentials for
(32:09):
men.
We will come back with our nextepisode on a different topic,
which we're going to surpriseyou with, so I'm excited for
that too.
Yeah, so listen and you'll seewhat it is next time.
Thanks, dan, bye-bye, bye.
You'll see what it is next time.
Thanks, dan, bye-bye, bye.
All right, there's anotherepisode and another subject in
the books.
Thanks so much for listening tothe whole thing.
We certainly appreciate it.
(32:29):
Again, check out our website,mindfullymasculinecom, where you
can find our full episodes inboth audio and video format.
Thanks, and we'll talk to younext time.
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