March 24, 2025 • 40 mins
In this insightful episode of "Mindfully Masculine," Charles and Dan delve into Chapter 5 of "Dating Essentials for Men" by Dr. Robert Glover, exploring why your brain is hardwired to keep you safe—even if it means sabotaging your dating life. They discuss the hidden comfort traps, anxiety management, overcoming the fear of rejection, and why immediate action is crucial for personal growth and successful dating.
Key Topics Covered:
- Understanding anxiety as your brain’s protective mechanism
- Why your brain favors familiar discomfort over unfamiliar success
- Practical strategies for overcoming fear and anxiety in dating
- The true cost of avoiding rejection
- How an "abundance mindset" changes your dating outcomes
- Managing vs. soothing anxiety—why the distinction matters
- Friend Zone: How men unintentionally trap themselves and how to avoid it
- "Geeks with Techniques": Why action matters more than information
- The power of immediate action and realistic expectations
Notable Quotes:
- "Your brain's job isn't to make your dreams come true; it's to keep you alive."
- "Failure needs to be part of the process—success is a numbers game."
- "Men who aren’t resilient to rejection spiral out of control or shut down."
- "Testing for interest is not about being accepted or rejected personally, it's about understanding mutual interest."
Actionable Tips:
- Expand Your Comfort Zone: Regularly interact with new people and situations to reduce social anxiety.
- Reframe Rejection: Adopt the mindset "I can handle it," turning setbacks into growth opportunities.
- Immediate Action: Apply the "three-second rule" to bypass anxiety and hesitation in social interactions.
- Test for Interest: Engage authentically without pressure, using interactions to gauge mutual interest.
Book Featured: "Dating Essentials for Men" by Dr. Robert Glover
Find More: Visit mindfullymasculine.com for full audio and video episodes, updates, and resources to enhance your personal growth and relationship success.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Charles (00:00):
Instead have this mindset of no matter what
happens, no matter what girlsays no to me, no matter what
girl says Ooh, I'm notinterested in you.
In that way, you can handle itand you can recover from it.
And that really is.
I've said for years that someof the biggest problems we have
in our world is men who are notresilient to rejection, men who
(00:21):
are not willing to putthemselves out there and say
this is what I want, this iswhat I'm trying to get, and then
they're told no, you can't havethat thing you want.
And then they just spiral outof control and act out or shut
down or whatever it is.
Welcome back to the MindfullyMasculine Podcast.
This is Charles Okay.
In this episode, dan and I willcontinue our analysis and
(00:44):
review of Dating Essentials forMen by Dr Robert Glover, and the
topics we discuss will includethe purpose and nature of
anxiety, the comfort trap,overcoming the fear of rejection
, managing versus soothinganxiety, the friend zone
revisited, the power ofimmediate action and realistic
expectation and personal growth.
(01:04):
Please check out our website,mindfullymasculinecom to find
full audio and video episodes,as well as any news or updates
that we find worth sharing.
You may notice that we're stillstruggling a little bit with
the audio quality of ourepisodes.
We are in the process of tryingto get that straightened out,
so please just bear with us forone or two more episodes and
we'll get it taken care of.
(01:24):
Thanks and enjoy Going well,welcome back.
We're going to cover chapter 5of dating essentials for men,
and this is the anxiety chapter,and man anxiety is.
Why are you feeling anxious?
I know this is an easy one,because there's some pretty
basic stuff to understand aboutanxiety that can, in my
(01:48):
experience, almost immediatelymake it easier to make it less
of a limiter of what youexperience in your life.
And first is this concept?
That was a big deal when Ifirst heard it.
It's not your brain's job togrant you all your dream, make
(02:09):
all your dreams come true.
It's your brain's job to keepyou safe and keep you alive, and
so everything that your braintells you is going to be coming
through that filter of yeah, youdon't depend on me for making
your life amazing.
My job is not to make your lifeamazing, my job is to keep you
alive long enough to reproduce,and that's about as far as your
(02:33):
brain.
To get it to do anything else,you're going to have to hack it
in some ways.
You're going to have to.
You're going to have toconvince it that these other
things are just as important asyour ability to feel comfortable
and safe and secure.
And if you don't do that, thenyou're going to be pushed
against taking a risk or againstdoing anything new, because
(02:54):
familiar discomfort is easierfor your brain to pull off than
unfamiliar success and makingjust amazing things happen for
you.
Dan (03:03):
Yeah, Look at it this way.
I just thought of this,basically the same as Ben Siller
on a long-term poly right.
He was an insurance.
Charles (03:10):
I've never seen it.
Dan (03:11):
Oh, really, he was basically.
I think he was like a riskassessment for a company.
He's a CRM In his personal life, that was because of his job,
or basically assess risk Worstcase scenarios.
Charles (03:22):
Worst case scenarios or basically assess risk.
Worst case scenarios, Worstcase scenarios yeah absolutely
Don't do that.
Yeah, think about it in terms ofit's not the job of your
appetite to keep you in goodshape.
It's the job of your appetiteto keep you from starving to
death.
Because if you start looking atyour appetite's job as keeping
you cut and ripped, you're justgoing to be disappointed every
(03:42):
day.
You've got to figure out.
Okay, I understand that this iswhat my body's trying to do for
me and it is trying to do itfor you.
It's a good thing that it'strying to do, but if you just
put it on autopilot, withoutintervening in what those
impulses and those instincts are, you're not going to be happy
with the results.
We live in a culture and asociety where, if you just let
(04:05):
your appetite drive the car,you're going to be significantly
overweight because of the foodand the things that are
available to us.
Dan (04:13):
Yeah, and also the lack of required exercise.
We don't require exercise tosurvive anymore exercise to
survive anymore, and that thebig difference is we don't need
to go running for miles andhours in order to find food and
then carry it back and all theweight that we have to carry,
all that stuff.
We don't have to do thatanymore.
So the appetite was developedbasically to combat all of the
(04:37):
physical exercise that we weredoing, because if we didn't eat
Hulk, basically we'd waste away.
We'd have energy to go hunt anice day or gather or whatever
it is.
You're out, you know, justagain, just walking around all
day, even just the gatheringpart of things if you're not
hunting.
This is very demanding on thebody if you're doing it all day
(04:58):
long.
So that's, I think the problemwe run into is our activity
levels have droppedsignificantly over time.
Charles (05:06):
Yeah, and so we've got this.
We've got these mechanismsinside of our brain just telling
us to keep things the same.
Whatever the normal is,whatever the status quo is, the
easiest way, the surest way tomake sure that you survive is
going to be to just not rock theboat.
And so, when it comes tochanging up the experiences that
(05:27):
we have with dating, it's likethere's going to be a lot of
voices, or at least one in yourhead, telling you Nope, don't do
anything new, don't do anythingdifferent.
Just hear the reasons why thispodcast is wrong.
Here's the reason why this bookis wrong.
Here are all the reasons whyyou should just keep doing what
you're doing and eventuallymaybe you'll get lucky and
things will be better.
It was like no, you need toparticipate in your own rescue,
(05:49):
as they say.
Where if you're just waitingfor things to randomly change
and get better?
No, because even if somethingrandom, something great, happens
to you randomly, your responseto it is still going to be
dictated by all these decisionsyou've been making on a daily
basis and you're going tosquander that opportunity when
it comes your way by all thesedecisions you've been making on
a daily basis and you're goingto squander that opportunity
when it comes your way.
Dan (06:05):
If you're not open to it now, what makes you think you're
going to be open to it whenit's basically handed to you on
a sort of ladder?
Charles (06:11):
Yeah, like when people win the lottery and they've got
the financial habits of a poorperson and then they get a
couple 10 million, 100 milliondollars, they're still going to
behave with that money as ifthey're a poor person because
they didn't put themselvesthrough the work necessary to
become somebody who can generateand manage that amount of money
.
Dan (06:31):
Just because you can't manage, you kept $100 and had to
allocate, handle that properly.
What makes you think you'regoing to be?
Any better at managing athousand.
It's not the amount of moneythat's the issue, it's the
management of it itself.
Charles (06:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And we're my girlfriend and Iare going to see the new Captain
America movie tonight, and Iwas, I'm, reminded of the first
movie, where the doctor thatgives Steve Rogers, the super
soldier serum says part of whatthis does is it makes you more
of what you already are.
So it makes bad people worseand it makes good people great,
(07:07):
and that is what money orexposure to really great women
that are the kinds that you saythat you want to date that's
what will happen.
It will.
The things that you're bad atyou will get worse at, and
that's really anything thatinduces anxiety does that to you
.
It will make it will.
Anxiety will bring out thecracks in your game, and the
(07:28):
things that you're good at,maybe you'll rise up and get
even better at, but the thingsthat you're bad at, those will
come out and be very clear toyou as well.
Yeah, but what anxiety mainlydoes is it?
It stops action.
It's, it puts you in a placewhere you feel like, no, I'm not
going to do anything, I'm notgoing to rock anything, I'm not
going to rock the boat, I'm notgoing to change anything, and so
that way I'll feel safe and youmight be miserable, but you'll
(07:51):
be safe too Safe from success,safe from failure.
Dan (07:55):
Known as the fight, flight or freeze feelings.
Right, that's what anxiety isactually a reflection of or
description of, and if you areneeding to think about doing
things, meaning you have toconsciously think about doing
things, it's not ingrained inyou.
It is not something that youhave practiced that often,
because the more often thatyou've practiced, the things
(08:18):
that are part of you are notnecessarily the things that you
need to think about.
And if you have a bad emotionsfrom your primitive brain, like
anxiety, while you're trying todo these things that you haven't
practiced very well before, itis truly, truly difficult for
you to do them well, whereas thethings that you've practiced
and honed and it's just becomepart of who you are without that
(08:40):
anxiety.
When that anxiety comes, it's alot easier to fall back on your
routines and your habits andthe things that you are.
Because you have that, you'renot consciously needing to make
effort.
Think about every single thingthat you're doing.
Charles (08:55):
Yeah, I'm reminded of.
One of my favorite scenes fromBatman Begins is when Bruce
Wayne is training with LiamNeeson's character Ducard, and
he says your parents' death wasnot your fault, it was your
father's fault.
And Bruce Wayne immediatelywants to make excuses for his
dad.
He's now the guy had a gun.
(09:16):
And the answer is would the gunhave stopped you?
No, I've had training.
My dad didn't have training.
And his character says thetraining is nothing, it's the
will to training.
And his character says thetraining is nothing, it's the
will to act.
And so that brings us into thesection on geeks with techniques
.
We're so much of what we thinkis limiting us in our ability to
go out and meet great girls is.
(09:36):
I just don't know enough.
If I could just learn what'sthe right way, what's the right
opener, what's the right thingto say, what's the right book to
read?
Yeah, exactly Right.
Yeah, yeah, it's no.
All that is holding you back isthe will to get out there and
do something new and dosomething with a with an unknown
result.
Go out there and do somethingwhere you don't know what's
(09:58):
going to happen.
You don't know exactly how it'sgoing to shake out, but you're
so afraid of that unpredictableresult that you're just going to
choose not to do anything.
Dan (10:09):
And I think that's why he talked about the abundance
mindset in the previous chapter,because if you practice that a
little bit, you are now thatunpredictable result could be
something good.
If you don't practice thatabundant mindset, the
unpredictable results always inyour mind somewhere going to be,
(10:29):
it's going to be a bad result.
It's not.
I'm not open to it being a goodresult, because there's
abundance out there that I'mjust not aware of.
Charles (10:38):
Yeah, I was recently watching a video on YouTube of a
guy who's an actor and he wastalking about auditions and what
your success ratio would be,and he's like I've been doing
this a long time, I make a lotof money and I'm pretty
successful at it and, if I canget as as a professional who
makes a living doing this, myratio is, for every 50 auditions
(11:01):
I go on, I book one and that'sme being, that's me being really
good at this, and so that'spart of the getting comfortable
with the idea of I'm going to goout there and fail at something
49 times before I succeed on anaverage.
So there's going to be days,days and weeks that are way
worse than that and there'sgoing to be some that are better
.
Imagine if you approachanything with okay, I got this
(11:26):
audition, I may never getanother audition again.
This is the only audition I'llever have and I've got to book
this job, otherwise I could gohungry.
You walk into an audition withthat kind of mindset and I can
guarantee that's not going to bethe that's not going to be the
one that works out for you.
But if you're okay with, myaverage is 50, meaning I'm going
to have some weeks where I'mdoing way worse than that and
(11:48):
some weeks are going to be way,way better.
Then you can treat eachaudition as okay.
Did I just bring the best Icould to this audition?
Great, then that's the success.
The success is not did I getbooked for this job or not.
The success is did I give it mybest shot and did I
successfully apply the skillsthat I have?
And then, if the answer is yes,and they didn't pick you anyway
(12:09):
, then okay, great, I wasn'twhat they were looking for and
that's fine.
But maybe the next one will be,or the one after that, or the
one 50 tries from now will be it, and that's.
It's like cold calling we talkabout any.
Anybody who starts their owncompany has to be comfortable
with the idea of I'm going toask some people for their
business and they're going tosay no and it it's real to speak
(12:31):
to, to think about it otherwise.
Dan (12:33):
But so much of our brain leads logically just doesn't
make sense that everybody'sgoing to say yes, failure, you'd
be part of a process.
And I still struggle with that.
Charles (12:44):
Yeah, me too.
Dan (12:45):
With whatever's important to me, to say, yes, failure
needs to be part of the process.
And I still struggle with that.
Yeah, me too.
Whatever's important to me, I'mtrying, right, it helps me to
get set back in and just try toget an idea of, hey, what's the
realistic outcome here?
And really just having thatbelief that it's not futile.
Right, a success will come.
You're just not exactly surewhen it might be, and that is
(13:08):
less likely to happen than afailure.
Charles (13:12):
Sir, could you tell us what you thought, but that will
get better, and part of that isjust the knowledge that, hey,
this is a numbers game can beenough to tell you that, okay,
if you expect everything toalways work out for you, you're
going to live a verydisappointed life.
But if you expect I'm going tofail a lot and still feel okay
(13:32):
about myself because that's partof the process, like you said
then that can motivate you toget up the next morning and try
it again.
Dan (13:38):
It can also put your primitive brain at ease a little
bit by saying those things,thinking about those things,
digging into those things.
You are conscious of processingthem, but you're still
conscious and you're from theprimitive brains actually taking
that is so I think it helpedprobably put some of that
anxiety at ease, Whereas if youdon't ever get set back and try
to set up your perspective andyour intentions and realistic
(14:02):
outcome, every time you fail,you're going to be like a
disaster and you're.
You can feel it's a disaster.
Whereas expectations, inwhatever form that looks like,
on some level you make yourselfaware of it.
I think it's easier to tempoyour anxiety.
Charles (14:19):
Yeah, it's really.
It's the unexpected failuresthat hurt us the most right, the
ones where, if we finished thispodcast and both went over to
the gym across the street and Iwas like I'm going to try to
deadlift 500 pounds, the bestcase scenario is I just don't do
it.
The worst case scenario is Ireally hurt myself trying.
But if, yeah, if I walked inthere thinking, all right, I've
(14:43):
not deadlifted in quite a fewmonths, I've never hit 500
pounds.
But man, if I don't pull 500pounds off right now, I'm going
to re.
I'm going to feel really downon myself.
That would be ridiculous, thatwould be silly and it would be
just moronic to think that, okay, I'm just going to go try this
brand new thing or this thing.
Dan (14:59):
I'm never going to lift, unless I could deadlift 500
pounds.
Charles (15:04):
Exactly.
I'm never going unless I'mgoing to make this list of my
perfect woman and if I can'tdate her, I just won't date
anybody.
It's that same, the samemindset of just setting yourself
up for failure and notrealizing okay, no, it's,
failure is part of the processand I'm I can fail at a lot of
things and still be okay.
And yeah, if you can't, if youcan't get comfortable with the
(15:35):
idea of the world's not going towork out the way you would like
it to, then that will paralyzeyou and you'll just do nothing.
And people who are paralyzedand spend their days doing
nothing, those aren't happypeople that you want to hang out
with or be by any means Okay.
So he makes a distinction herein this chapter about managing
anxiety versus soothing anxiety.
Distinction here in thischapter about managing anxiety
versus soothing anxiety.
I would say that managing doesnot have a negative enough
connotation with the way that heuses it.
(15:57):
I think what he's reallytalking about is fleeing from
anxiety or avoiding anxiety.
Resisting anxiety?
Yeah, he's, because managing isa pretty neutral word for me,
but the way he's talking aboutthe way people try to manage
their anxiety is really no, theyrun away from it, they avoid it
(16:17):
.
Dan (16:22):
They flee from it.
We use the word managing in away that allows us to get in a
way with not actually goingforward with the thing that's
giving us anxiety.
Oh, I'm not going to do thisbecause?
But I am managing my anxiety bydoing this thing that's making
(16:43):
me feel better, but the ultimateresult is you're not doing what
you ultimately wanted to do,and but we're not feeling guilty
about that, or we're not, yeah,maybe because we're using these
nice words like oh, I'mmanaging my anxiety by doing
these things Right, Instead ofso and I do it.
I'm pulling over that.
Charles (17:02):
Yeah, no, me too, I find that, yeah, just
procrastinating, putting stuffthat I say I want to do on the
back burner.
There's all kinds of ways tomanage that anxiety.
Has everyone reported soothingall the way?
Exactly?
Yeah, saying okay, I'm going totry this and I expect it to not
go exactly the way that I wantit to, and that's okay, I can
(17:23):
handle it not going exactly theway that I want it to.
The result of that is not goingto be crippling to me by any
means.
It's going to give me theopportunity to refine, try again
, refine, try again.
So, yeah, I definitely feel likethink of it not as managing
your anxiety, but think of it asfleeing from your anxiety,
(17:43):
avoiding fleeing.
Yeah, put it in a little bitmore negative context, where
soothing soothing is fine,soothing is I'm going to live
with my anxiety and figure outways to exist through my anxiety
.
But, yeah, managing youranxiety is no, you're not,
you're not managing your.
Yeah, you're running away fromit.
One of the ways he says wemanage our anxiety is by really
(18:05):
getting over-invested with aparticular girl, to the point
where we are thinking about hermore than we're spending time
with her and, as a result, wefind ourselves getting into that
friend zone situation and againthat the friend zone is not a
place that girls put you.
It's a place you put yourself.
(18:26):
The only way you get into thefriend zone is by being a bit
too afraid and a bit toodishonest.
Exactly yeah, you only get inthe friend zone by not being
direct and honest about what youwant or what your intentions
are.
Dan (18:43):
And then holding those boundaries.
If she doesn't read, it's notsomething she wants and, steve,
you will walk away from thatversus oh, I'll just settle,
she's not interested in me.
But you know what I'll settlefor whatever I can get in any
type of interaction orrelationship with her.
And now you are a friend, butyou can't complain about that
(19:06):
now Because you were settlingfor what she has basically told
you, even if you have, you know,presented yourself it's your
interest in her romantically andshe's not looking at you in
that way or whatever that mightbe, or I'm not interested in you
that way.
Then you decide all right, areyou going to hang out and be a
friend or are you going to moveon?
You have an abundance mindsetto know that this wasn't the end
(19:28):
or be all the only possible.
That exists as a big part ofthat.
Charles (19:33):
Correct, yeah, and yeah , being willing to say no,
here's what I'm looking for andhearing, nah, I'm not looking
for.
Or even worst case scenario,yeah, I'm looking for that too,
but just not with you.
Like, okay, then good luck, andthen then let her go I think a
lot of us don't realize that'sactually.
Dan (19:50):
What we're saying is that when we agree to just, you know,
self-fighting, our own neatswaps and our own boundaries,
basically we are communicatingthat this is whatever.
This is this relationship notwhat I want.
I am thinking it's a seriousworld yeah, I'll take whatever
(20:11):
you have, whatever you offer,I'll take right, and so it's
like when I say it out loud,like logically now of course
I'll be like no, that'sridiculous, of course she's not
the only person on planet, butthat's not the way when we were
in it.
It feels emotionally high andthis is the best person that
ever gonna have a chance withI'm to take the friendship and
hopefully at one point I'll talkher into being a girlfriend.
And when we were younger, naive, but that's what we would do
(20:35):
and yeah, and hopefully listen.
Charles (20:36):
There's going to be guys listening to this that are
older and still in that mindset,and there's going to be guys
listening to this that areyounger and might be able to
avoid a few of those years thatyou and I spent thinking that,
yeah, the way to get that girlthat we're crushing on is to
just be her buddy and help herout and spend as much time with
her where we can in anycircumstance, and then maybe
she'll eventually decide shelikes us.
(20:57):
No, that's not the way it works.
And listen, I've been friendswith girls and moved on from
being their friend to beingtheir boyfriend, but not when
secretly becoming theirboyfriend was the agenda and not
when I was hiding the fact thatI found them attractive or
interesting or whatever it's.
Yeah, we're friends and we'renot dating each other right now.
(21:18):
You're an exciting, attractivegirl to be around and I.
Part of the reason I enjoyhanging out with you is because
I find you attractive.
But we're just friends andthat's fine.
If you can honestly behave thatway with a girl, then yeah,
there's a chance that you mightgo from friends to something
more.
But if you're, if you'rethinking the whole time of.
Maybe at some point she'llbreak down and decide she might
want to be my girlfriend andI'll be able to get what I want
(21:41):
from her.
That, listen, it's their job tobe able to detect that kind of
thinking and avoid it, becauseit's that's dangerous for them.
Spending time with guys who arenot open and direct about what
they want or what they'refeeling is a danger to women,
and so they are conditioned tolook out for that.
Spot it and they might keep youaround in their orbit, but
(22:02):
they're not looking at you as aviable romantic option.
If they, even on subconsciouslevel, can detect that's what
your agenda is.
So it's best to say, hey,here's what I'm looking for,
here's what I'm interested in.
Let them say yes or no, and ifthe answer is no, then okay, I
wish you the best.
I'm going to go find what I'mlooking for with somebody else
and you have to overcome anxietyto be willing to say that, and
(22:24):
you have to overcome scarcitythinking to be willing to say
that, okay, you're notinterested in me, that's okay.
Somebody else will be andactually believe it and act as
if you do believe it.
Okay, he talks about changingyour thinking.
Again, this is more about SLBsgoing from.
I can't make, I can't takethose big risks with anybody, or
even those small risks.
Dan (22:43):
Limiting beliefs.
Let's just yeah, oh yeah.
Charles (22:49):
SLB limiting beliefs.
Let's just yeah, that's oh.
Yeah, slb stands forself-limiting belief.
Yes, thank you, that's good.
Instead have this mindset of nomatter what happens, no matter
what girl says no to me, nomatter what girl says, oh, I'm
not interested in you.
In that way, you can handle itand you can recover from it.
And that really is.
I've said for years that someof the biggest problems we have
in our world is men who are notresilient to rejection, men who
(23:11):
are not willing to putthemselves out there and say
this is what I want, this iswhat I'm trying to get, and then
they're told, no, you can'thave that thing you want.
And then they just spiral outof control and act out or shut
down or whatever it is.
The greatest skill you candevelop is being able to be
honest about what you want, bewilling to work hard for what
you want, and then, when youdon't get it, say, okay, I tried
(23:34):
, it didn't work out this time,I'm going to come back and try
again.
Dan (23:37):
And I can handle it.
Charles (23:39):
Yeah, yeah, by Susan Jeffries.
I think it is Feel the fear anddo it anyway.
Dan (23:51):
Yeah, and it's a simple mantra is I can handle it, and
I've used that myself when I'vebeen feeling overwhelmed with
whatever.
It is not even related to women, whether it's like a business
day for work or my schedule isridiculous or something goes
wrong, like literally.
I broke another freaking saltshaker.
I had these blast writers of asalt out on my kitchen table.
I probably bought five of themalready and then it's yeah, I
was not paying attention, Iknocked it off and I've.
They'll have losses on thefloor and shatters everywhere.
(24:13):
You always last shadows a pile.
I just threw a hole over theplace.
Charles (24:17):
Yeah.
Dan (24:17):
I was like interwash kind of do something else, and I was.
I was as I said I can handle it, they'll have it off, I back
handle it, they'll have it off,I back it up.
And then I literally foundpizza Last smooch.
Charles (24:29):
How long did it break?
Dan (24:30):
I believe it was like four days ago.
Okay, you do it.
Yeah, then I really have toprobably got it, and it was now
when things would really derailme and cooking a little bit of
fun.
It's not the end of the world,but at the same time it was just
like just saying the mantra I'dhandle it, do a little early
breathing to try to counter thatnerves right then and there,
(24:50):
and then having a laugh about it.
Uh, it does wonders in terms ofpreserving the rest of your day
, and then it'd go Goodbye.
Yeah, and you can also buyplexiglass, the salt shakers you
know it's just called a lot of,and I was just like, yeah, I
can't I got one glass for loveCause that now that we're using
the glass, the salt, but yeah.
That has come in next, it'slike a peck of glass Excellent,
(25:12):
he does.
Charles (25:13):
He does point out that the cure for anxiety, the best
cure for anxiety, is just takingaction.
And when you feel like, hey, Ithink I might want to do this,
don't even give yourself achance to get to the oh no, but
what if?
Just take action before that?
Oh no, but what if?
Starts up and he says three?
Second rule If you're having aninteraction with a girl and you
(25:36):
first think, hey, I think I'dlike to, and not even he will
frequently say in this firsthalf of the book, ask her out,
ask for her number.
But later on in the book we'lllearn more about testing for
interest.
And that's the thing.
It's don't think I want to askher out, I want to ask for her
phone number.
It's, I want to put somethingout there that gives her the
opportunity to tell me if she'sinterested or not.
(25:58):
And when you think of it astesting for interest, it feels a
lot less cold approaching ortrying to pick up.
It's no, I just want to.
I want to do something rightnow that will tell me if she's
interested with going one levelcloser in this interaction.
Dan (26:13):
Very simple.
The difference between that andthe approach is you are
basically the result thatgetting evaluated.
With the approach where you'reattempting for insurance, you
basically set, you reminded yourintention that the test is
whether she's interested or not,or interested in the, the, the
modal, whatever Right, which isthe answer Right, and then
(26:37):
distributing wants that takesthe credit off of you being
evaluated to something externalfor you and that's.
That's a wonderful thing.
Charles (26:45):
Right, exactly it's.
Is she interested in the nextlevel of interaction?
Not, is she interested in me?
And yeah, just being able to,and that's exactly it's not.
Yeah, we're not trying to.
We're not trying to trick youinto believing something that's
not true this isn't a hack no,this is actually this.
Just looking reality exactly,just looking at this as what it
really is, which is not.
Is she interested in me?
(27:05):
Is she going, which is not.
Is she interested in me?
Is she going to reject me?
It's like, is she interested inanother level of interaction,
yes or no?
And if the answer is yes, thenenjoy that additional level of
interaction until you're readyto see if she's interested in
the next level of interaction.
And then, when you get to alevel that she's not interested
in, just stay at the level thatshe is interested in and then at
(27:26):
some point say, okay, we'vebeen here for a minute now, are
you interested in the next level?
And then she'll either be yesor no.
And then, yeah, but it's notabout you.
It's about you're a factor in abig, complicated interpersonal
interaction here.
Dan (27:43):
It's a target room where all the crazy things and all the
things that are going on aroundyou and your world, as it's
also happening for her, and yougive a set of what those savings
are for her and then nevermindother external factors you're
not even aware of.
Charles (27:58):
Yeah, so treat the situation like there's no reason
to be anxious about.
When you test your pool and youget the little sample thing out
, you have the red drops and theyellow drops that just check
the chlorine and the pH.
Yeah, it's.
Oh no, this red is going to bea little too pink.
Oh no, I'm so anxious aboutseeing what's going to happen.
It's no, you're just doing thatlittle experiment to see where
(28:19):
your pool's currently at andthen that will determine what
you do next, based on keepingyour pool nice and clean and
healthy.
That's it.
It's not a big deal, it'snothing to be freaked out about,
and that's the way you shouldappreciate or should approach
your react, your interactionswith men, women, potential
employers, whoever it is, yeah,whatever it is.
Just I'm going to boil thisdown to the actual components
(28:42):
that are making this interactionup and not this daydream that I
have about how amazing my lifecould be if she says yes to
going out with me Upbrained withthe thinking right.
Dan (28:51):
That's where we get in trouble is we start ruminating
and thinking about these thingsand making things up that don't
exist.
Charles (28:57):
Right.
Dan (28:58):
So stop thinking, take action.
Charles (28:59):
Yeah, exactly.
So here are the other ways he'sgotten this chapter to blast
that day in anxiety, which isdevelop these good social habits
.
Expand your route every day.
Go places you don't regularlygo and get around people, Ask
people you don't know how theirday is going so far.
Men, women, children, et cetera.
Skip the children.
I don't care how a kid's day isgoing.
Dan (29:21):
It's none of my business.
Get in your office, miss.
Charles (29:22):
Yeah, exactly, if you're hanging out with your
friends and their kids arearound, fine, ask your kid how,
ask their kid how their day isgoing.
But even that it's like I don'tknow.
I feel like Dr Gloveroccasionally will grant a little
bit of a view into his ownlittle.
He's a little bit of a weirdguy and by by saying men, women,
(29:43):
children, et cetera, it's ohyeah, you're a little bit of an
egghead, you're a little bit ofa guy who puts this down and
doesn't realize no, that's alittle weird.
And then if you listen to hisinterviews, especially when he
gets into some of the stuffabout his relationship with his
wife, how they met, how theirsex life is, it's okay.
He's got a lot of reallyinteresting good stuff to learn
(30:05):
and he's also a little bit of a,a little bit of a weirdo, which
we all are.
But I'm sure I say stuff duringthis podcast where people are
like, okay, that's a littleweird.
I'm.
I'm not sure why Charles saidthat, but I don't get paid to
write books.
Dan (30:18):
Yes.
Charles (30:19):
Make eye contact with and smile at people Men, women,
children, et cetera.
Again, skip the eye contactwith children, women, children,
et cetera.
Again, skip the eye contactwith children.
Go ahead and do.
Go ahead and just pretendthat's not even in the book and
I didn't even say it.
Every day, start a conversationwith someone you don't know man
or woman, doesn't say childrenin this one, that's interesting.
Get to rejection quickly.
That's a good one, which iswhen you are interested in
(30:41):
someone or not interested inthem.
But get them, ask them forsomething that they're willing
to say no, thank you, I'm notinterested in that.
The tough part with that isasking someone to do something
that you actually want to do,cause what if they say?
What if they say yes?
Again, like I said in a coupleepisodes ago, ask, uh, ask some
old person if they want to graba coffee.
(31:03):
You've got to actually beinterested in having coffee with
them and understand that.
Okay, I might get something outof this.
But yeah, don't, don't reject,don't get somebody to reject you
for something you don't want todo anyway, because then you're
what if they say yes and you'restuck doing something you don't?
Dan (31:19):
want to do.
Charles (31:23):
Yeah, they wouldn't get enough.
No's, yeah, you ask people todo something and they'll say yes
, yeah, you have to figure out away to do this in a somewhat
authentic and but I mean, look,they say yes and that really
that's great, because it showsyou real world evidence.
People are looking to say yes,and that really that's great
(31:44):
because it shows you real worldevidence that people are looking
to say yes to you.
Feed your fear.
Do it anyway.
Feel your fear.
Do it anyway.
Lean into anxiety.
Don't give up.
Don't let one bad experienceinhibit you.
Don't take one woman'srejection as proof that the
whole world wants to reject you.
Keep at it until it feelssecond nature.
Most important have fun, okay.
Are we trying?
Are we trying, to engage inpersonal growth, dan?
(32:05):
Are we trying to have fun?
Because for most of us it's notfun.
It's not going to be fun untilunless we get we stick with it
long enough to get really goodat it, it's not going to feel
like fun.
You and I took dance lessonsfor a year together I mean, you
were doing on your own beforethat and it never got fun for me
.
I found it valuable andmeaningful in many ways, but it
(32:27):
was never fun.
It wasn't miserable and it wassomething I felt was giving me
benefits.
But whether or not something'sfun is not a good barometer of
whether you should keep doing it.
Dan (32:37):
In a lot of cases, Really, it depends on you know the
payoff, what, what, what youthink it is.
Charles (32:42):
Yes.
Dan (32:43):
You might need to try to be open to it.
Be enjoyable and fun so you canrelax.
Charles (32:50):
But there's a lot.
There's a lot of things I haveto do for work that certain
parts of my job will never feellike fun, but I'm going to do
them anyway and trying to turninto a person that is more
social and less less enslaved totheir anxiety.
It's not going to be fun.
You may look at it down theroad and think, man, I'm so glad
that I did that, because nowI've got a different kind of
(33:13):
life, because I put in the time,did the reps to make this feel
okay.
But yeah, in a lot of ways,stretching your interpersonal
skills, looking at it as fun,just yeah.
Dan (33:26):
I think people would do.
Actually they do enjoy.
Charles (33:31):
They don't need this book though.
Dan (33:32):
You're going to be good.
I, yeah, Open to positive.
I mean this will be fun.
Charles (33:39):
Fun things could happen in the didn't get it Right you
just need to understand.
Dan (33:43):
I really think it's, for other law is you're never, never
, never to be.
It is that you're a trainee.
You said that the WB bringingany skill sets so that it comes
to harder.
Charles (33:53):
Yeah, I just come not afraid of people and very fun
things can happen along the way.
And very fun things can happenalong the way.
But the idea of whenever I hearsomebody trying to coach me
through anything that isdifficult and their response
just have fun with it.
It's going to just have it,stick with it and get good at it
or have or just have fun withit.
Dan (34:17):
Those two are mutually exclusive for me when I'm trying
to learn something new.
I didn't have fun doing thedancing, honestly, until I got
good enough, to the point ofwhere I wasn't thinking about it
nearly as much anymore.
And you can actually use this.
Charles (34:29):
I never got to that point.
Dan (34:30):
That thing is where, yeah, when you're thinking about the
next step, what do you do?
That's when you're able torelax a little bit and go okay,
now what's going on.
Yeah, that's when it's fun.
Yeah, I agree.
Little bit he go.
Okay, now what's going on.
Yeah, that's when it's fun.
I, yeah, I agree.
I think you should say that atthe very beginning of something
where it's taking so much timeand effort and energy to even
take the baby steps.
Charles (34:50):
Yeah, I, and so I just I don't the the part I don't.
Uh, exactly I don't like,because if I mean he literally,
he literally says at the end ofchapter five the last thing
before, here's what chapter sixis most important.
Have fun.
Dan (35:08):
It should not be most important.
Charles (35:10):
No, it's not.
Yeah, because then it's.
Oh, I did what he said for aweek.
I didn't have any fun.
Therefore I should stop.
He's giving me a pass to stopdoing it.
Dan (35:17):
I know he got a mistake because he's coming from the
perspective of he's already gonethrough it and he's the expert
and he does it naturally now.
So he has thought for him thething that's a tribe and he
didn't do those things isprobably was thought right.
We are at his level.
So they thought it was amistake for him forgetting who
he was talking to.
Charles (35:37):
Yeah, most important have fun is a platitude for sure
and a cliche, and it'ssomething that you say when you
haven't really thought out whatyou mean to say.
And so shame on dr glover forputting most important have fun
at the end of this list, because, yeah, we have to and should do
plenty of things in our liveswhere having fun at doing it is
(36:00):
not the most important thing.
It's more like check in withyourself and realize that this
is a meaningful pursuit andyou're going to get something
out of this that is extremelyvaluable, and then keep doing it
.
But yeah, there, there will bemoments of anxiety and moments
of fun along the way, and it'sworth it to keep going.
Dan (36:20):
It'd be better for him to say you know, look back at what,
even if you are perfect doingthis, look at, look could
measure backwards and look atwhat you have done that you
didn't do in the past and bevery difficult about that.
To pass on the back of thoseaccomplishments, even if they
don't feel like it are huge, youknow something that feels
impossible today can feel fundown the road, but it's not
(36:45):
going to be.
Charles (36:47):
Yeah, you're not there yet and yeah, it will be a nice
stretch down the road before itfeels that way.
So just keep that in mind andkeep that in mind with anything
new that you're trying to learn,whether that is riding a
unicycle, going to the gym,talking to girls, whatever it is
.
It's like when you're reallybad at it, just getting started
(37:08):
and you're failing all the time.
Then at some point you'll see alittle bit of success and you
should take stock of that andfeel good about it.
But you won't be able todescribe your practice as fun
until you start getting good andpart of the.
Dan (37:25):
I think there's a lot of value in the take action so you
don't feel that anxiety anymore,because I, most of the time,
I've been in situations where,about something saying about it
actually doing it, although itwasn't as bad as it should be
you all said it, sure, and it isbecause we are actually doing
(37:48):
the thing and anxiety, and thatis always less troublesome than
what we think it's going to be,because our brain goes to
extremes and head, eyes andevery time you do actually take
the action, it's doing it, it'sbig Truth.
(38:09):
And then let that be yourarticle.
Okay, this is clearly an advert.
My fault.
Charles (38:14):
Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking back to when he said a
couple of chapters ago when hetalked about the salsa class
where he signed up for eitherthree times or five times before
he actually showed up.
Imagine if he was told thefirst time that he bailed on the
class why'd you, why didn't yougo?
Just have fun.
Just go and have fun.
Apparently, it felt impossiblefor him to walk through the door
(38:37):
and actually take the class.
So just have fun.
Would not have been advice thatwas useful.
It's a fun thing to do.
No, exactly Like I.
I already know what's fun andwhat's not fun and I'm choosing
not to do the thing that I knowis not gonna be fun.
So, yeah, I I'm bummed out thathe's willing to toss that in
there in in a self-improvementbook and I don't want anybody
(38:57):
listening to have theexpectation that we know this
isn't fun.
Like, the reason I don't domany of the things in this book
is because they're not fun.
Dan (39:05):
I think that's the whole reason.
We told you what we wanted.
What do you think that youwanted?
Charles (39:09):
Exactly yeah.
Dan (39:10):
Yeah.
Charles (39:12):
I could benefit from walking 25,000 steps a day and
I'm not doing it.
I'll just have fun with it.
Oh God, that didn't occur to me, thanks, fun with it.
Oh god, that didn't occur to me, thanks.
Why didn't I think of thatridiculous?
All right, we should call thisthe charles shits on books
podcast, because sometimes I canreally get, I can really focus
in on stuff like this and itdoesn't take away from all the
(39:32):
other good stuff no, it's goodadvice and yeah, it's the.
It feels like the only thing I'mcomplaining about is he's got
all this good advice to for waysto learn how to go out and do
hard things that are worth doing, and then it's ooh, I realize
I'm telling these people to dosome really hard things that are
not going to be fun when theyfirst try it, so I better tell
them to just have fun with it.
(39:53):
No, that's.
Dan (39:55):
I wouldn't want to be an artist.
Charles (39:58):
Maybe, yeah, or didn't take it out.
There's maybe yeah, or didn'ttake it out.
Either way, it's in there andit should have fun with the book
.
Yeah, feel the fear, do itanyway and don't expect it to be
fun.
So that could be the title ofher book.
All right, we're good for now,dan, thanks very much.
We are right at our end timeand we will stop now and come
back next week with chapter six.
Take it easy, all right.
(40:20):
Thanks again for listening to acomplete episode from start to
finish.
We certainly appreciate it.
Check out our websitemindfullymasculinecom for our
full audio and video episodes,as well as any news worth
sharing, and we'll talk to younext time.
Instead have this mindset of no matter what
happens, no matter what girlsays no to me, no matter what
girl says Ooh, I'm notinterested in you.
In that way, you can handle itand you can recover from it.
And that really is.
I've said for years that someof the biggest problems we have
in our world is men who are notresilient to rejection, men who
(00:21):
are not willing to putthemselves out there and say
this is what I want, this iswhat I'm trying to get, and then
they're told no, you can't havethat thing you want.
And then they just spiral outof control and act out or shut
down or whatever it is.
Welcome back to the MindfullyMasculine Podcast.
This is Charles Okay.
In this episode, dan and I willcontinue our analysis and
(00:44):
review of Dating Essentials forMen by Dr Robert Glover, and the
topics we discuss will includethe purpose and nature of
anxiety, the comfort trap,overcoming the fear of rejection
, managing versus soothinganxiety, the friend zone
revisited, the power ofimmediate action and realistic
expectation and personal growth.
(01:04):
Please check out our website,mindfullymasculinecom to find
full audio and video episodes,as well as any news or updates
that we find worth sharing.
You may notice that we're stillstruggling a little bit with
the audio quality of ourepisodes.
We are in the process of tryingto get that straightened out,
so please just bear with us forone or two more episodes and
we'll get it taken care of.
(01:24):
Thanks and enjoy Going well,welcome back.
We're going to cover chapter 5of dating essentials for men,
and this is the anxiety chapter,and man anxiety is.
Why are you feeling anxious?
I know this is an easy one,because there's some pretty
basic stuff to understand aboutanxiety that can, in my
(01:48):
experience, almost immediatelymake it easier to make it less
of a limiter of what youexperience in your life.
And first is this concept?
That was a big deal when Ifirst heard it.
It's not your brain's job togrant you all your dream, make
(02:09):
all your dreams come true.
It's your brain's job to keepyou safe and keep you alive, and
so everything that your braintells you is going to be coming
through that filter of yeah, youdon't depend on me for making
your life amazing.
My job is not to make your lifeamazing, my job is to keep you
alive long enough to reproduce,and that's about as far as your
(02:33):
brain.
To get it to do anything else,you're going to have to hack it
in some ways.
You're going to have to.
You're going to have toconvince it that these other
things are just as important asyour ability to feel comfortable
and safe and secure.
And if you don't do that, thenyou're going to be pushed
against taking a risk or againstdoing anything new, because
(02:54):
familiar discomfort is easierfor your brain to pull off than
unfamiliar success and makingjust amazing things happen for
you.
Dan (03:03):
Yeah, Look at it this way.
I just thought of this,basically the same as Ben Siller
on a long-term poly right.
He was an insurance.
Charles (03:10):
I've never seen it.
Dan (03:11):
Oh, really, he was basically.
I think he was like a riskassessment for a company.
He's a CRM In his personal life, that was because of his job,
or basically assess risk Worstcase scenarios.
Charles (03:22):
Worst case scenarios or basically assess risk.
Worst case scenarios, Worstcase scenarios yeah absolutely
Don't do that.
Yeah, think about it in terms ofit's not the job of your
appetite to keep you in goodshape.
It's the job of your appetiteto keep you from starving to
death.
Because if you start looking atyour appetite's job as keeping
you cut and ripped, you're justgoing to be disappointed every
(03:42):
day.
You've got to figure out.
Okay, I understand that this iswhat my body's trying to do for
me and it is trying to do itfor you.
It's a good thing that it'strying to do, but if you just
put it on autopilot, withoutintervening in what those
impulses and those instincts are, you're not going to be happy
with the results.
We live in a culture and asociety where, if you just let
(04:05):
your appetite drive the car,you're going to be significantly
overweight because of the foodand the things that are
available to us.
Dan (04:13):
Yeah, and also the lack of required exercise.
We don't require exercise tosurvive anymore exercise to
survive anymore, and that thebig difference is we don't need
to go running for miles andhours in order to find food and
then carry it back and all theweight that we have to carry,
all that stuff.
We don't have to do thatanymore.
So the appetite was developedbasically to combat all of the
(04:37):
physical exercise that we weredoing, because if we didn't eat
Hulk, basically we'd waste away.
We'd have energy to go hunt anice day or gather or whatever
it is.
You're out, you know, justagain, just walking around all
day, even just the gatheringpart of things if you're not
hunting.
This is very demanding on thebody if you're doing it all day
(04:58):
long.
So that's, I think the problemwe run into is our activity
levels have droppedsignificantly over time.
Charles (05:06):
Yeah, and so we've got this.
We've got these mechanismsinside of our brain just telling
us to keep things the same.
Whatever the normal is,whatever the status quo is, the
easiest way, the surest way tomake sure that you survive is
going to be to just not rock theboat.
And so, when it comes tochanging up the experiences that
(05:27):
we have with dating, it's likethere's going to be a lot of
voices, or at least one in yourhead, telling you Nope, don't do
anything new, don't do anythingdifferent.
Just hear the reasons why thispodcast is wrong.
Here's the reason why this bookis wrong.
Here are all the reasons whyyou should just keep doing what
you're doing and eventuallymaybe you'll get lucky and
things will be better.
It was like no, you need toparticipate in your own rescue,
(05:49):
as they say.
Where if you're just waitingfor things to randomly change
and get better?
No, because even if somethingrandom, something great, happens
to you randomly, your responseto it is still going to be
dictated by all these decisionsyou've been making on a daily
basis and you're going tosquander that opportunity when
it comes your way by all thesedecisions you've been making on
a daily basis and you're goingto squander that opportunity
when it comes your way.
Dan (06:05):
If you're not open to it now, what makes you think you're
going to be open to it whenit's basically handed to you on
a sort of ladder?
Charles (06:11):
Yeah, like when people win the lottery and they've got
the financial habits of a poorperson and then they get a
couple 10 million, 100 milliondollars, they're still going to
behave with that money as ifthey're a poor person because
they didn't put themselvesthrough the work necessary to
become somebody who can generateand manage that amount of money
.
Dan (06:31):
Just because you can't manage, you kept $100 and had to
allocate, handle that properly.
What makes you think you'regoing to be?
Any better at managing athousand.
It's not the amount of moneythat's the issue, it's the
management of it itself.
Charles (06:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And we're my girlfriend and Iare going to see the new Captain
America movie tonight, and Iwas, I'm, reminded of the first
movie, where the doctor thatgives Steve Rogers, the super
soldier serum says part of whatthis does is it makes you more
of what you already are.
So it makes bad people worseand it makes good people great,
(07:07):
and that is what money orexposure to really great women
that are the kinds that you saythat you want to date that's
what will happen.
It will.
The things that you're bad atyou will get worse at, and
that's really anything thatinduces anxiety does that to you
.
It will make it will.
Anxiety will bring out thecracks in your game, and the
(07:28):
things that you're good at,maybe you'll rise up and get
even better at, but the thingsthat you're bad at, those will
come out and be very clear toyou as well.
Yeah, but what anxiety mainlydoes is it?
It stops action.
It's, it puts you in a placewhere you feel like, no, I'm not
going to do anything, I'm notgoing to rock anything, I'm not
going to rock the boat, I'm notgoing to change anything, and so
that way I'll feel safe and youmight be miserable, but you'll
(07:51):
be safe too Safe from success,safe from failure.
Dan (07:55):
Known as the fight, flight or freeze feelings.
Right, that's what anxiety isactually a reflection of or
description of, and if you areneeding to think about doing
things, meaning you have toconsciously think about doing
things, it's not ingrained inyou.
It is not something that youhave practiced that often,
because the more often thatyou've practiced, the things
(08:18):
that are part of you are notnecessarily the things that you
need to think about.
And if you have a bad emotionsfrom your primitive brain, like
anxiety, while you're trying todo these things that you haven't
practiced very well before, itis truly, truly difficult for
you to do them well, whereas thethings that you've practiced
and honed and it's just becomepart of who you are without that
(08:40):
anxiety.
When that anxiety comes, it's alot easier to fall back on your
routines and your habits andthe things that you are.
Because you have that, you'renot consciously needing to make
effort.
Think about every single thingthat you're doing.
Charles (08:55):
Yeah, I'm reminded of.
One of my favorite scenes fromBatman Begins is when Bruce
Wayne is training with LiamNeeson's character Ducard, and
he says your parents' death wasnot your fault, it was your
father's fault.
And Bruce Wayne immediatelywants to make excuses for his
dad.
He's now the guy had a gun.
(09:16):
And the answer is would the gunhave stopped you?
No, I've had training.
My dad didn't have training.
And his character says thetraining is nothing, it's the
will to training.
And his character says thetraining is nothing, it's the
will to act.
And so that brings us into thesection on geeks with techniques
.
We're so much of what we thinkis limiting us in our ability to
go out and meet great girls is.
(09:36):
I just don't know enough.
If I could just learn what'sthe right way, what's the right
opener, what's the right thingto say, what's the right book to
read?
Yeah, exactly Right.
Yeah, yeah, it's no.
All that is holding you back isthe will to get out there and
do something new and dosomething with a with an unknown
result.
Go out there and do somethingwhere you don't know what's
(09:58):
going to happen.
You don't know exactly how it'sgoing to shake out, but you're
so afraid of that unpredictableresult that you're just going to
choose not to do anything.
Dan (10:09):
And I think that's why he talked about the abundance
mindset in the previous chapter,because if you practice that a
little bit, you are now thatunpredictable result could be
something good.
If you don't practice thatabundant mindset, the
unpredictable results always inyour mind somewhere going to be,
(10:29):
it's going to be a bad result.
It's not.
I'm not open to it being a goodresult, because there's
abundance out there that I'mjust not aware of.
Charles (10:38):
Yeah, I was recently watching a video on YouTube of a
guy who's an actor and he wastalking about auditions and what
your success ratio would be,and he's like I've been doing
this a long time, I make a lotof money and I'm pretty
successful at it and, if I canget as as a professional who
makes a living doing this, myratio is, for every 50 auditions
(11:01):
I go on, I book one and that'sme being, that's me being really
good at this, and so that'spart of the getting comfortable
with the idea of I'm going to goout there and fail at something
49 times before I succeed on anaverage.
So there's going to be days,days and weeks that are way
worse than that and there'sgoing to be some that are better
.
Imagine if you approachanything with okay, I got this
(11:26):
audition, I may never getanother audition again.
This is the only audition I'llever have and I've got to book
this job, otherwise I could gohungry.
You walk into an audition withthat kind of mindset and I can
guarantee that's not going to bethe that's not going to be the
one that works out for you.
But if you're okay with, myaverage is 50, meaning I'm going
to have some weeks where I'mdoing way worse than that and
(11:48):
some weeks are going to be way,way better.
Then you can treat eachaudition as okay.
Did I just bring the best Icould to this audition?
Great, then that's the success.
The success is not did I getbooked for this job or not.
The success is did I give it mybest shot and did I
successfully apply the skillsthat I have?
And then, if the answer is yes,and they didn't pick you anyway
(12:09):
, then okay, great, I wasn'twhat they were looking for and
that's fine.
But maybe the next one will be,or the one after that, or the
one 50 tries from now will be it, and that's.
It's like cold calling we talkabout any.
Anybody who starts their owncompany has to be comfortable
with the idea of I'm going toask some people for their
business and they're going tosay no and it it's real to speak
(12:31):
to, to think about it otherwise.
Dan (12:33):
But so much of our brain leads logically just doesn't
make sense that everybody'sgoing to say yes, failure, you'd
be part of a process.
And I still struggle with that.
Charles (12:44):
Yeah, me too.
Dan (12:45):
With whatever's important to me, to say, yes, failure
needs to be part of the process.
And I still struggle with that.
Yeah, me too.
Whatever's important to me, I'mtrying, right, it helps me to
get set back in and just try toget an idea of, hey, what's the
realistic outcome here?
And really just having thatbelief that it's not futile.
Right, a success will come.
You're just not exactly surewhen it might be, and that is
(13:08):
less likely to happen than afailure.
Charles (13:12):
Sir, could you tell us what you thought, but that will
get better, and part of that isjust the knowledge that, hey,
this is a numbers game can beenough to tell you that, okay,
if you expect everything toalways work out for you, you're
going to live a verydisappointed life.
But if you expect I'm going tofail a lot and still feel okay
(13:32):
about myself because that's partof the process, like you said
then that can motivate you toget up the next morning and try
it again.
Dan (13:38):
It can also put your primitive brain at ease a little
bit by saying those things,thinking about those things,
digging into those things.
You are conscious of processingthem, but you're still
conscious and you're from theprimitive brains actually taking
that is so I think it helpedprobably put some of that
anxiety at ease, Whereas if youdon't ever get set back and try
to set up your perspective andyour intentions and realistic
(14:02):
outcome, every time you fail,you're going to be like a
disaster and you're.
You can feel it's a disaster.
Whereas expectations, inwhatever form that looks like,
on some level you make yourselfaware of it.
I think it's easier to tempoyour anxiety.
Charles (14:19):
Yeah, it's really.
It's the unexpected failuresthat hurt us the most right, the
ones where, if we finished thispodcast and both went over to
the gym across the street and Iwas like I'm going to try to
deadlift 500 pounds, the bestcase scenario is I just don't do
it.
The worst case scenario is Ireally hurt myself trying.
But if, yeah, if I walked inthere thinking, all right, I've
(14:43):
not deadlifted in quite a fewmonths, I've never hit 500
pounds.
But man, if I don't pull 500pounds off right now, I'm going
to re.
I'm going to feel really downon myself.
That would be ridiculous, thatwould be silly and it would be
just moronic to think that, okay, I'm just going to go try this
brand new thing or this thing.
Dan (14:59):
I'm never going to lift, unless I could deadlift 500
pounds.
Charles (15:04):
Exactly.
I'm never going unless I'mgoing to make this list of my
perfect woman and if I can'tdate her, I just won't date
anybody.
It's that same, the samemindset of just setting yourself
up for failure and notrealizing okay, no, it's,
failure is part of the processand I'm I can fail at a lot of
things and still be okay.
And yeah, if you can't, if youcan't get comfortable with the
(15:35):
idea of the world's not going towork out the way you would like
it to, then that will paralyzeyou and you'll just do nothing.
And people who are paralyzedand spend their days doing
nothing, those aren't happypeople that you want to hang out
with or be by any means Okay.
So he makes a distinction herein this chapter about managing
anxiety versus soothing anxiety.
Distinction here in thischapter about managing anxiety
versus soothing anxiety.
I would say that managing doesnot have a negative enough
connotation with the way that heuses it.
(15:57):
I think what he's reallytalking about is fleeing from
anxiety or avoiding anxiety.
Resisting anxiety?
Yeah, he's, because managing isa pretty neutral word for me,
but the way he's talking aboutthe way people try to manage
their anxiety is really no, theyrun away from it, they avoid it
(16:17):
.
Dan (16:22):
They flee from it.
We use the word managing in away that allows us to get in a
way with not actually goingforward with the thing that's
giving us anxiety.
Oh, I'm not going to do thisbecause?
But I am managing my anxiety bydoing this thing that's making
(16:43):
me feel better, but the ultimateresult is you're not doing what
you ultimately wanted to do,and but we're not feeling guilty
about that, or we're not, yeah,maybe because we're using these
nice words like oh, I'mmanaging my anxiety by doing
these things Right, Instead ofso and I do it.
I'm pulling over that.
Charles (17:02):
Yeah, no, me too, I find that, yeah, just
procrastinating, putting stuffthat I say I want to do on the
back burner.
There's all kinds of ways tomanage that anxiety.
Has everyone reported soothingall the way?
Exactly?
Yeah, saying okay, I'm going totry this and I expect it to not
go exactly the way that I wantit to, and that's okay, I can
(17:23):
handle it not going exactly theway that I want it to.
The result of that is not goingto be crippling to me by any
means.
It's going to give me theopportunity to refine, try again
, refine, try again.
So, yeah, I definitely feel likethink of it not as managing
your anxiety, but think of it asfleeing from your anxiety,
(17:43):
avoiding fleeing.
Yeah, put it in a little bitmore negative context, where
soothing soothing is fine,soothing is I'm going to live
with my anxiety and figure outways to exist through my anxiety
.
But, yeah, managing youranxiety is no, you're not,
you're not managing your.
Yeah, you're running away fromit.
One of the ways he says wemanage our anxiety is by really
(18:05):
getting over-invested with aparticular girl, to the point
where we are thinking about hermore than we're spending time
with her and, as a result, wefind ourselves getting into that
friend zone situation and againthat the friend zone is not a
place that girls put you.
It's a place you put yourself.
(18:26):
The only way you get into thefriend zone is by being a bit
too afraid and a bit toodishonest.
Exactly yeah, you only get inthe friend zone by not being
direct and honest about what youwant or what your intentions
are.
Dan (18:43):
And then holding those boundaries.
If she doesn't read, it's notsomething she wants and, steve,
you will walk away from thatversus oh, I'll just settle,
she's not interested in me.
But you know what I'll settlefor whatever I can get in any
type of interaction orrelationship with her.
And now you are a friend, butyou can't complain about that
(19:06):
now Because you were settlingfor what she has basically told
you, even if you have, you know,presented yourself it's your
interest in her romantically andshe's not looking at you in
that way or whatever that mightbe, or I'm not interested in you
that way.
Then you decide all right, areyou going to hang out and be a
friend or are you going to moveon?
You have an abundance mindsetto know that this wasn't the end
(19:28):
or be all the only possible.
That exists as a big part ofthat.
Charles (19:33):
Correct, yeah, and yeah , being willing to say no,
here's what I'm looking for andhearing, nah, I'm not looking
for.
Or even worst case scenario,yeah, I'm looking for that too,
but just not with you.
Like, okay, then good luck, andthen then let her go I think a
lot of us don't realize that'sactually.
Dan (19:50):
What we're saying is that when we agree to just, you know,
self-fighting, our own neatswaps and our own boundaries,
basically we are communicatingthat this is whatever.
This is this relationship notwhat I want.
I am thinking it's a seriousworld yeah, I'll take whatever
(20:11):
you have, whatever you offer,I'll take right, and so it's
like when I say it out loud,like logically now of course
I'll be like no, that'sridiculous, of course she's not
the only person on planet, butthat's not the way when we were
in it.
It feels emotionally high andthis is the best person that
ever gonna have a chance withI'm to take the friendship and
hopefully at one point I'll talkher into being a girlfriend.
And when we were younger, naive, but that's what we would do
(20:35):
and yeah, and hopefully listen.
Charles (20:36):
There's going to be guys listening to this that are
older and still in that mindset,and there's going to be guys
listening to this that areyounger and might be able to
avoid a few of those years thatyou and I spent thinking that,
yeah, the way to get that girlthat we're crushing on is to
just be her buddy and help herout and spend as much time with
her where we can in anycircumstance, and then maybe
she'll eventually decide shelikes us.
(20:57):
No, that's not the way it works.
And listen, I've been friendswith girls and moved on from
being their friend to beingtheir boyfriend, but not when
secretly becoming theirboyfriend was the agenda and not
when I was hiding the fact thatI found them attractive or
interesting or whatever it's.
Yeah, we're friends and we'renot dating each other right now.
(21:18):
You're an exciting, attractivegirl to be around and I.
Part of the reason I enjoyhanging out with you is because
I find you attractive.
But we're just friends andthat's fine.
If you can honestly behave thatway with a girl, then yeah,
there's a chance that you mightgo from friends to something
more.
But if you're, if you'rethinking the whole time of.
Maybe at some point she'llbreak down and decide she might
want to be my girlfriend andI'll be able to get what I want
(21:41):
from her.
That, listen, it's their job tobe able to detect that kind of
thinking and avoid it, becauseit's that's dangerous for them.
Spending time with guys who arenot open and direct about what
they want or what they'refeeling is a danger to women,
and so they are conditioned tolook out for that.
Spot it and they might keep youaround in their orbit, but
(22:02):
they're not looking at you as aviable romantic option.
If they, even on subconsciouslevel, can detect that's what
your agenda is.
So it's best to say, hey,here's what I'm looking for,
here's what I'm interested in.
Let them say yes or no, and ifthe answer is no, then okay, I
wish you the best.
I'm going to go find what I'mlooking for with somebody else
and you have to overcome anxietyto be willing to say that, and
(22:24):
you have to overcome scarcitythinking to be willing to say
that, okay, you're notinterested in me, that's okay.
Somebody else will be andactually believe it and act as
if you do believe it.
Okay, he talks about changingyour thinking.
Again, this is more about SLBsgoing from.
I can't make, I can't takethose big risks with anybody, or
even those small risks.
Dan (22:43):
Limiting beliefs.
Let's just yeah, oh yeah.
Charles (22:49):
SLB limiting beliefs.
Let's just yeah, that's oh.
Yeah, slb stands forself-limiting belief.
Yes, thank you, that's good.
Instead have this mindset of nomatter what happens, no matter
what girl says no to me, nomatter what girl says, oh, I'm
not interested in you.
In that way, you can handle itand you can recover from it.
And that really is.
I've said for years that someof the biggest problems we have
in our world is men who are notresilient to rejection, men who
(23:11):
are not willing to putthemselves out there and say
this is what I want, this iswhat I'm trying to get, and then
they're told, no, you can'thave that thing you want.
And then they just spiral outof control and act out or shut
down or whatever it is.
The greatest skill you candevelop is being able to be
honest about what you want, bewilling to work hard for what
you want, and then, when youdon't get it, say, okay, I tried
(23:34):
, it didn't work out this time,I'm going to come back and try
again.
Dan (23:37):
And I can handle it.
Charles (23:39):
Yeah, yeah, by Susan Jeffries.
I think it is Feel the fear anddo it anyway.
Dan (23:51):
Yeah, and it's a simple mantra is I can handle it, and
I've used that myself when I'vebeen feeling overwhelmed with
whatever.
It is not even related to women, whether it's like a business
day for work or my schedule isridiculous or something goes
wrong, like literally.
I broke another freaking saltshaker.
I had these blast writers of asalt out on my kitchen table.
I probably bought five of themalready and then it's yeah, I
was not paying attention, Iknocked it off and I've.
They'll have losses on thefloor and shatters everywhere.
(24:13):
You always last shadows a pile.
I just threw a hole over theplace.
Charles (24:17):
Yeah.
Dan (24:17):
I was like interwash kind of do something else, and I was.
I was as I said I can handle it, they'll have it off, I back
handle it, they'll have it off,I back it up.
And then I literally foundpizza Last smooch.
Charles (24:29):
How long did it break?
Dan (24:30):
I believe it was like four days ago.
Okay, you do it.
Yeah, then I really have toprobably got it, and it was now
when things would really derailme and cooking a little bit of
fun.
It's not the end of the world,but at the same time it was just
like just saying the mantra I'dhandle it, do a little early
breathing to try to counter thatnerves right then and there,
(24:50):
and then having a laugh about it.
Uh, it does wonders in terms ofpreserving the rest of your day
, and then it'd go Goodbye.
Yeah, and you can also buyplexiglass, the salt shakers you
know it's just called a lot of,and I was just like, yeah, I
can't I got one glass for loveCause that now that we're using
the glass, the salt, but yeah.
That has come in next, it'slike a peck of glass Excellent,
(25:12):
he does.
Charles (25:13):
He does point out that the cure for anxiety, the best
cure for anxiety, is just takingaction.
And when you feel like, hey, Ithink I might want to do this,
don't even give yourself achance to get to the oh no, but
what if?
Just take action before that?
Oh no, but what if?
Starts up and he says three?
Second rule If you're having aninteraction with a girl and you
(25:36):
first think, hey, I think I'dlike to, and not even he will
frequently say in this firsthalf of the book, ask her out,
ask for her number.
But later on in the book we'lllearn more about testing for
interest.
And that's the thing.
It's don't think I want to askher out, I want to ask for her
phone number.
It's, I want to put somethingout there that gives her the
opportunity to tell me if she'sinterested or not.
(25:58):
And when you think of it astesting for interest, it feels a
lot less cold approaching ortrying to pick up.
It's no, I just want to.
I want to do something rightnow that will tell me if she's
interested with going one levelcloser in this interaction.
Dan (26:13):
Very simple.
The difference between that andthe approach is you are
basically the result thatgetting evaluated.
With the approach where you'reattempting for insurance, you
basically set, you reminded yourintention that the test is
whether she's interested or not,or interested in the, the, the
modal, whatever Right, which isthe answer Right, and then
(26:37):
distributing wants that takesthe credit off of you being
evaluated to something externalfor you and that's.
That's a wonderful thing.
Charles (26:45):
Right, exactly it's.
Is she interested in the nextlevel of interaction?
Not, is she interested in me?
And yeah, just being able to,and that's exactly it's not.
Yeah, we're not trying to.
We're not trying to trick youinto believing something that's
not true this isn't a hack no,this is actually this.
Just looking reality exactly,just looking at this as what it
really is, which is not.
Is she interested in me?
(27:05):
Is she going, which is not.
Is she interested in me?
Is she going to reject me?
It's like, is she interested inanother level of interaction,
yes or no?
And if the answer is yes, thenenjoy that additional level of
interaction until you're readyto see if she's interested in
the next level of interaction.
And then, when you get to alevel that she's not interested
in, just stay at the level thatshe is interested in and then at
(27:26):
some point say, okay, we'vebeen here for a minute now, are
you interested in the next level?
And then she'll either be yesor no.
And then, yeah, but it's notabout you.
It's about you're a factor in abig, complicated interpersonal
interaction here.
Dan (27:43):
It's a target room where all the crazy things and all the
things that are going on aroundyou and your world, as it's
also happening for her, and yougive a set of what those savings
are for her and then nevermindother external factors you're
not even aware of.
Charles (27:58):
Yeah, so treat the situation like there's no reason
to be anxious about.
When you test your pool and youget the little sample thing out
, you have the red drops and theyellow drops that just check
the chlorine and the pH.
Yeah, it's.
Oh no, this red is going to bea little too pink.
Oh no, I'm so anxious aboutseeing what's going to happen.
It's no, you're just doing thatlittle experiment to see where
(28:19):
your pool's currently at andthen that will determine what
you do next, based on keepingyour pool nice and clean and
healthy.
That's it.
It's not a big deal, it'snothing to be freaked out about,
and that's the way you shouldappreciate or should approach
your react, your interactionswith men, women, potential
employers, whoever it is, yeah,whatever it is.
Just I'm going to boil thisdown to the actual components
(28:42):
that are making this interactionup and not this daydream that I
have about how amazing my lifecould be if she says yes to
going out with me Upbrained withthe thinking right.
Dan (28:51):
That's where we get in trouble is we start ruminating
and thinking about these thingsand making things up that don't
exist.
Charles (28:57):
Right.
Dan (28:58):
So stop thinking, take action.
Charles (28:59):
Yeah, exactly.
So here are the other ways he'sgotten this chapter to blast
that day in anxiety, which isdevelop these good social habits
.
Expand your route every day.
Go places you don't regularlygo and get around people, Ask
people you don't know how theirday is going so far.
Men, women, children, et cetera.
Skip the children.
I don't care how a kid's day isgoing.
Dan (29:21):
It's none of my business.
Get in your office, miss.
Charles (29:22):
Yeah, exactly, if you're hanging out with your
friends and their kids arearound, fine, ask your kid how,
ask their kid how their day isgoing.
But even that it's like I don'tknow.
I feel like Dr Gloveroccasionally will grant a little
bit of a view into his ownlittle.
He's a little bit of a weirdguy and by by saying men, women,
(29:43):
children, et cetera, it's ohyeah, you're a little bit of an
egghead, you're a little bit ofa guy who puts this down and
doesn't realize no, that's alittle weird.
And then if you listen to hisinterviews, especially when he
gets into some of the stuffabout his relationship with his
wife, how they met, how theirsex life is, it's okay.
He's got a lot of reallyinteresting good stuff to learn
(30:05):
and he's also a little bit of a,a little bit of a weirdo, which
we all are.
But I'm sure I say stuff duringthis podcast where people are
like, okay, that's a littleweird.
I'm.
I'm not sure why Charles saidthat, but I don't get paid to
write books.
Dan (30:18):
Yes.
Charles (30:19):
Make eye contact with and smile at people Men, women,
children, et cetera.
Again, skip the eye contactwith children, women, children,
et cetera.
Again, skip the eye contactwith children.
Go ahead and do.
Go ahead and just pretendthat's not even in the book and
I didn't even say it.
Every day, start a conversationwith someone you don't know man
or woman, doesn't say childrenin this one, that's interesting.
Get to rejection quickly.
That's a good one, which iswhen you are interested in
(30:41):
someone or not interested inthem.
But get them, ask them forsomething that they're willing
to say no, thank you, I'm notinterested in that.
The tough part with that isasking someone to do something
that you actually want to do,cause what if they say?
What if they say yes?
Again, like I said in a coupleepisodes ago, ask, uh, ask some
old person if they want to graba coffee.
(31:03):
You've got to actually beinterested in having coffee with
them and understand that.
Okay, I might get something outof this.
But yeah, don't, don't reject,don't get somebody to reject you
for something you don't want todo anyway, because then you're
what if they say yes and you'restuck doing something you don't?
Dan (31:19):
want to do.
Charles (31:23):
Yeah, they wouldn't get enough.
No's, yeah, you ask people todo something and they'll say yes
, yeah, you have to figure out away to do this in a somewhat
authentic and but I mean, look,they say yes and that really
that's great, because it showsyou real world evidence.
People are looking to say yes,and that really that's great
(31:44):
because it shows you real worldevidence that people are looking
to say yes to you.
Feed your fear.
Do it anyway.
Feel your fear.
Do it anyway.
Lean into anxiety.
Don't give up.
Don't let one bad experienceinhibit you.
Don't take one woman'srejection as proof that the
whole world wants to reject you.
Keep at it until it feelssecond nature.
Most important have fun, okay.
Are we trying?
Are we trying, to engage inpersonal growth, dan?
(32:05):
Are we trying to have fun?
Because for most of us it's notfun.
It's not going to be fun untilunless we get we stick with it
long enough to get really goodat it, it's not going to feel
like fun.
You and I took dance lessonsfor a year together I mean, you
were doing on your own beforethat and it never got fun for me
.
I found it valuable andmeaningful in many ways, but it
(32:27):
was never fun.
It wasn't miserable and it wassomething I felt was giving me
benefits.
But whether or not something'sfun is not a good barometer of
whether you should keep doing it.
Dan (32:37):
In a lot of cases, Really, it depends on you know the
payoff, what, what, what youthink it is.
Charles (32:42):
Yes.
Dan (32:43):
You might need to try to be open to it.
Be enjoyable and fun so you canrelax.
Charles (32:50):
But there's a lot.
There's a lot of things I haveto do for work that certain
parts of my job will never feellike fun, but I'm going to do
them anyway and trying to turninto a person that is more
social and less less enslaved totheir anxiety.
It's not going to be fun.
You may look at it down theroad and think, man, I'm so glad
that I did that, because nowI've got a different kind of
(33:13):
life, because I put in the time,did the reps to make this feel
okay.
But yeah, in a lot of ways,stretching your interpersonal
skills, looking at it as fun,just yeah.
Dan (33:26):
I think people would do.
Actually they do enjoy.
Charles (33:31):
They don't need this book though.
Dan (33:32):
You're going to be good.
I, yeah, Open to positive.
I mean this will be fun.
Charles (33:39):
Fun things could happen in the didn't get it Right you
just need to understand.
Dan (33:43):
I really think it's, for other law is you're never, never
, never to be.
It is that you're a trainee.
You said that the WB bringingany skill sets so that it comes
to harder.
Charles (33:53):
Yeah, I just come not afraid of people and very fun
things can happen along the way.
And very fun things can happenalong the way.
But the idea of whenever I hearsomebody trying to coach me
through anything that isdifficult and their response
just have fun with it.
It's going to just have it,stick with it and get good at it
or have or just have fun withit.
Dan (34:17):
Those two are mutually exclusive for me when I'm trying
to learn something new.
I didn't have fun doing thedancing, honestly, until I got
good enough, to the point ofwhere I wasn't thinking about it
nearly as much anymore.
And you can actually use this.
Charles (34:29):
I never got to that point.
Dan (34:30):
That thing is where, yeah, when you're thinking about the
next step, what do you do?
That's when you're able torelax a little bit and go okay,
now what's going on.
Yeah, that's when it's fun.
Yeah, I agree.
Little bit he go.
Okay, now what's going on.
Yeah, that's when it's fun.
I, yeah, I agree.
I think you should say that atthe very beginning of something
where it's taking so much timeand effort and energy to even
take the baby steps.
Charles (34:50):
Yeah, I, and so I just I don't the the part I don't.
Uh, exactly I don't like,because if I mean he literally,
he literally says at the end ofchapter five the last thing
before, here's what chapter sixis most important.
Have fun.
Dan (35:08):
It should not be most important.
Charles (35:10):
No, it's not.
Yeah, because then it's.
Oh, I did what he said for aweek.
I didn't have any fun.
Therefore I should stop.
He's giving me a pass to stopdoing it.
Dan (35:17):
I know he got a mistake because he's coming from the
perspective of he's already gonethrough it and he's the expert
and he does it naturally now.
So he has thought for him thething that's a tribe and he
didn't do those things isprobably was thought right.
We are at his level.
So they thought it was amistake for him forgetting who
he was talking to.
Charles (35:37):
Yeah, most important have fun is a platitude for sure
and a cliche, and it'ssomething that you say when you
haven't really thought out whatyou mean to say.
And so shame on dr glover forputting most important have fun
at the end of this list, because, yeah, we have to and should do
plenty of things in our liveswhere having fun at doing it is
(36:00):
not the most important thing.
It's more like check in withyourself and realize that this
is a meaningful pursuit andyou're going to get something
out of this that is extremelyvaluable, and then keep doing it
.
But yeah, there, there will bemoments of anxiety and moments
of fun along the way, and it'sworth it to keep going.
Dan (36:20):
It'd be better for him to say you know, look back at what,
even if you are perfect doingthis, look at, look could
measure backwards and look atwhat you have done that you
didn't do in the past and bevery difficult about that.
To pass on the back of thoseaccomplishments, even if they
don't feel like it are huge, youknow something that feels
impossible today can feel fundown the road, but it's not
(36:45):
going to be.
Charles (36:47):
Yeah, you're not there yet and yeah, it will be a nice
stretch down the road before itfeels that way.
So just keep that in mind andkeep that in mind with anything
new that you're trying to learn,whether that is riding a
unicycle, going to the gym,talking to girls, whatever it is
.
It's like when you're reallybad at it, just getting started
(37:08):
and you're failing all the time.
Then at some point you'll see alittle bit of success and you
should take stock of that andfeel good about it.
But you won't be able todescribe your practice as fun
until you start getting good andpart of the.
Dan (37:25):
I think there's a lot of value in the take action so you
don't feel that anxiety anymore,because I, most of the time,
I've been in situations where,about something saying about it
actually doing it, although itwasn't as bad as it should be
you all said it, sure, and it isbecause we are actually doing
(37:48):
the thing and anxiety, and thatis always less troublesome than
what we think it's going to be,because our brain goes to
extremes and head, eyes andevery time you do actually take
the action, it's doing it, it'sbig Truth.
(38:09):
And then let that be yourarticle.
Okay, this is clearly an advert.
My fault.
Charles (38:14):
Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking back to when he said a
couple of chapters ago when hetalked about the salsa class
where he signed up for eitherthree times or five times before
he actually showed up.
Imagine if he was told thefirst time that he bailed on the
class why'd you, why didn't yougo?
Just have fun.
Just go and have fun.
Apparently, it felt impossiblefor him to walk through the door
(38:37):
and actually take the class.
So just have fun.
Would not have been advice thatwas useful.
It's a fun thing to do.
No, exactly Like I.
I already know what's fun andwhat's not fun and I'm choosing
not to do the thing that I knowis not gonna be fun.
So, yeah, I I'm bummed out thathe's willing to toss that in
there in in a self-improvementbook and I don't want anybody
(38:57):
listening to have theexpectation that we know this
isn't fun.
Like, the reason I don't domany of the things in this book
is because they're not fun.
Dan (39:05):
I think that's the whole reason.
We told you what we wanted.
What do you think that youwanted?
Charles (39:09):
Exactly yeah.
Dan (39:10):
Yeah.
Charles (39:12):
I could benefit from walking 25,000 steps a day and
I'm not doing it.
I'll just have fun with it.
Oh God, that didn't occur to me, thanks, fun with it.
Oh god, that didn't occur to me, thanks.
Why didn't I think of thatridiculous?
All right, we should call thisthe charles shits on books
podcast, because sometimes I canreally get, I can really focus
in on stuff like this and itdoesn't take away from all the
(39:32):
other good stuff no, it's goodadvice and yeah, it's the.
It feels like the only thing I'mcomplaining about is he's got
all this good advice to for waysto learn how to go out and do
hard things that are worth doing, and then it's ooh, I realize
I'm telling these people to dosome really hard things that are
not going to be fun when theyfirst try it, so I better tell
them to just have fun with it.
(39:53):
No, that's.
Dan (39:55):
I wouldn't want to be an artist.
Charles (39:58):
Maybe, yeah, or didn't take it out.
There's maybe yeah, or didn'ttake it out.
Either way, it's in there andit should have fun with the book
.
Yeah, feel the fear, do itanyway and don't expect it to be
fun.
So that could be the title ofher book.
All right, we're good for now,dan, thanks very much.
We are right at our end timeand we will stop now and come
back next week with chapter six.
Take it easy, all right.
(40:20):
Thanks again for listening to acomplete episode from start to
finish.
We certainly appreciate it.
Check out our websitemindfullymasculinecom for our
full audio and video episodes,as well as any news worth
sharing, and we'll talk to younext time.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.