June 30, 2025 • 45 mins
Have you ever felt trapped in an endless cycle of reaction, constantly putting out fires, managing an overflowing to-do list, and feeling perpetually behind? What if there was another way to live?
Master coach Jocelyn Herman-Saccio joins us to reveal the transformative power of being "unmessable with" a mindset and practice that allows you to shift from survival mode to creation mode at will. With over 47 years in the transformative space and experience coaching more than 200,000 people, Jocelyn brings profound wisdom to this conversation about designing a life driven by vision rather than circumstance.
The difference between reaction and creation is stark: one leads to burnout and overwhelm, the other to magic and fulfilment. Jocelyn breaks down how most of us get trapped in managing our lives instead of creating them, explaining that it's not external events that mess with us, but our beliefs about how things "should" be. Through powerful examples and practical strategies, she demonstrates how to dismantle limiting beliefs and design life from the future backward rather than from the present forward.
Perhaps most compelling is Jocelyn's personal journey, how she transformed from working 80 hours weekly while dreaming of Paris "someday" to actually living there half the year while working just 10-15 hours weekly and exponentially increasing her income. Her approach isn't about hustling harder but about strengthening your relationship with your word and creating from vision.
Whether you're an entrepreneur feeling imprisoned by your business or simply someone seeking more freedom and fulfilment, this episode offers concrete steps to become unmessable with. Discover how to craft daily practices that keep you grounded in vision, overcome imposter syndrome, and design a life where you're living your dreams rather than eternally chasing them.
Resources Mentioned:
- Josselyne’s website – BeUnmessableWith.com
- Follow Josselyne on Instagram
- Connect with Josselyne on LinkedIn
- Book Mentioned:Buy Back Your Time by Dan Martell The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald
- Podcast Mentioned: Trading Stocks Made Easy by Tyrone Jackson
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Donna Eade (00:00):
You're listening to the Mindset in Action podcast,
the place to be to grow andstreamline your business.
I'm your host, donna Eade.
Let's jump into the show.
Welcome to the podcast,everybody.
I am so glad to have you heretoday because I have brought
(00:22):
another fantastic guest for you,jocelyn Herman-Saccio.
Welcome to the show, thank you.
Thanks for having me.
I am so excited for thisconversation because I have been
doing a lot of inner work overthe last few years and it has
dug up a lot of things, and Ithink that this episode is going
(00:45):
to probably hit on a few ofthose.
So I'm really the selfish.
Reason for running this podcastis so that I get to learn all
these good things from people,so I'm really, really happy to
be having this conversation withyou today.
Josselyne Herman-Sacc (00:58):
Excellent .
I'm thrilled to be able to, youknow, be here with you and your
listeners and make whateverdifference we can make today.
Donna Eade (01:04):
Okay, so first of all, before we jump into all the
goodness, please do introduceyourself to the audience.
Let us know a little bit aboutyour background and what it is
that you're up to at the moment.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (01:15):
Sure.
So I'm what they call a mastercoach, and basically anybody
who's a master has spent atleast 10,000 hours doing
something right, and I've spentway more than that.
It's almost 47 years I've beenin the transformative space.
So I coach people, I supportthem in architecting their
vision, but my mission is toreally empower people to live
(01:38):
their dreams not chase them anddevelop what I call the ability
to be unmessable with no matterwhat life throws at you, because
life throws stuff at us.
So how do you stay on track tofulfilling your vision when life
is lifing and happening?
And that's really what I'mabout.
So I've worked with over 200,000people directly as a coach and
(02:00):
course leader and I've developedcurriculum.
I in the old days was a popsinger and had a number one
record, so I come from adifferent part of the business,
so to speak, and then ended upstarting an entertainment
business to empower people inthe entertainment business to
fulfill their dreams.
But it has become so muchbroader than that.
(02:20):
It's not just entertainment.
I mostly work withentrepreneurs, executives, you
know people who are foundersthat are really out to increase
their impact, their legacy,their productivity, their income
, but not work more.
Work less, impact more and makemore.
Donna Eade (02:39):
So that's the game I play with them.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (02:41):
Yes, it's a good game.
Donna Eade (02:44):
I think that I think what I'm seeing more and more
coming out of the internet rightnow social media in particular
is so many people stepping awayfrom things that they've done.
I've literally seen it in thelast two or three days two or
more YouTubers that I watchstepping away from what it is
(03:06):
that they have been doing for solong and saying I need to get
back to what I originally wantedto do, my dream.
Like I got carried away withlife and I've been led down this
path and it's not fulfilling me.
And in the entrepreneur spaceas well, with my, you know,
friends and and colleagues inbusiness that are just like I
just need to reduce my hours oryou know, this isn't what I
(03:30):
wanted.
I need to scale back, and thisis sort of the the thing that
I've been hearing more and more,and I think it's almost like
that hustle bubble has finallyburst?
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (03:41):
I mean, I hope so, because it's so not
fulfilling and I and I work withhighly effective people, but
they are in reaction mode allday long and the work that I do.
When I say being unmessablewith it doesn't mean being tough
or something.
It's about being able to shiftfrom reaction mode to creation
mode on a dime, because thatspace of creation is magical.
(04:02):
That space of creation ismagical.
You know there's no burnout,there's no overwhelm in that
world.
But in the world of reactionyou're constantly dealing with
the never ending to do list andyou know things coming at you
and got to put out fires and itvery highly effective people are
good at reacting, but that's avery different space than that
space of vision and magic.
(04:23):
You know really when you'recreating.
Donna Eade (04:26):
Absolutely.
Let's jump into this theme,your anthem, your cry of being
unmessable with.
Talk to us about that, and howcan someone start cultivating
that mindset?
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (04:41):
Well, it definitely starts with vision
, and you'd be shocked how manypeople I say, okay, what's your
vision?
And they give me a goal.
And a goal is not a vision.
A goal is something that'sgoing to happen at some point in
time, whatever whether it's ina year or six months or six
years, and that's different.
That's content of your life.
Vision is more of a linguistic,contextual space.
(05:05):
So the difference betweencontext and content I like to do
this with people, just so itbecomes like super, super simple
is, you know, for those of youthat are listening, you won't
see this, but if you're watchingthe podcast, I'm holding up
what you would call is mypointer finger, and if I say, in
the context of body part, whatis this?
It's pretty.
I mean, you can just answer.
I'm not trying to trick you.
What is this in the context ofbody part?
(05:25):
What is this?
It's pretty, I mean, you canjust answer, I'm not trying to
trick you.
What is this in the context ofbody part?
It's a finger, exactly.
Donna Eade (05:30):
Ding, ding, ding Right.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (05:31):
But now I'm not going to change
anything in reality.
I'm holding up the same thing,but I'm going to say, okay, now
in the context of number, whatis it?
It's one, it's one and youdon't have to think about that,
you don't have to figure it out,it shows up for you as a one.
And if I say, okay, now in thecontext of direction, what is it
?
Up Up, so you have the sameexact reality, but the context
(05:56):
shapes how you view reality.
And the context is linguisticin nature.
It's made up of language, soit's alterable, it's
transformable at any givenmoment.
So what I work on with people isnot just the content, which is
important you have to have goalsand all those things but what
context are you functioning from?
And most people function fromthat world of reaction and
(06:19):
survival as a default context.
So being unmessable with isreally about having the context
of your life be your vision, bewhat you're out to actually
fulfill on in life, not whatyou're out to accomplish.
That's very different, becauseyou know people.
You could add up youraccomplishments and it's
staggering how much you'veaccomplished but you're not
(06:40):
fulfilled.
That's the difference.
So it's like what are youfulfilling on and when you're
fulfilling on a vision, it's acompletely different quality of
life.
It's like you get fulfillmentright now, not someday when you
hit that goal.
So it's like a backwards way ofliving, but in a good way.
Donna Eade (06:57):
Oh, I love that.
That sounds so much better.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (07:01):
Yes, it is.
It just is, I mean like interms of better or worse.
It's more alive, it's moremagical, it's more vibrant, it's
more you can breathe better inthe world of vision.
It's like, if you think of itdirectionally, when you're in
that world of survival andreaction and shoulds and
shouldn'ts and goods and badsand rights and wrongs and the
whole world that we live in,right I on the news, it's not
(07:24):
far away, right, or go to yourdinner table, it's right there.
That's a very down and in world.
So it's like suffocating, it'sconstraining, but vision and
creation is up and out.
You're like reallydirectionally in a different
space which gives you more roomto be so having our vision is
(07:46):
really important to beingunmessable with.
Donna Eade (07:49):
But unfortunately, we don't live in a vacuum, and I
happened to catch the beginning, or I was just checking out
your YouTube channel before wejumped on here um, and I saw
that you did an episode on beingdisappointed.
Yes, that was just recently.
Yeah, so we don't live in avacuum.
(08:10):
There are people around us thatare asking things of us, you
know, demanding things of us.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (08:19):
Or promising things of us and then
not delivering right.
Donna Eade (08:22):
Promising exactly, Promising and not delivering
right.
Promising, exactly.
So what do we do to kind ofprotect ourselves in that
situation, so that we maintainthat unmessable attitude?
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (08:32):
Well, it's never what happens that
messes with you.
I know that sounds kind ofcounterintuitive, but if
somebody says they're going tomeet you at seven and then they
are late, that meeting you atseven and coming at 730 didn't
mess with you.
It's that you thought theyshould be there at seven.
(08:52):
The should is what messes withyou.
So what I do with people isfirst we distinguish the vision
so that you have some place tobe unmessable with.
What are you being unmessablewith about is your vision.
So we create the vision andthen we start to distinguish and
dismantle all the things thatmess with you.
So again, when people say X anddo Y, it isn't what they did or
(09:13):
didn't do that messes with you.
It's that you expected them todo X and that's what.
What ends up messing with us isthey should have known or they
should have called or theyshould have.
Shoulds and shouldn'ts are verybig, you know, messable with
moment makers, money messes withpeople, sleep messes with
(09:34):
people, all sorts of wellbeingstuff messes with people.
But shoulds, shouldn'ts, thingsthat are right, wrong, good,
bad, all of that stuff is notreal.
It's in our view of life.
So it's like we have a viewthat something's good, but to
somebody else it could be a viewthat it's bad.
So when you start arguing forwhat's right or wrong, or true
(09:55):
or false, you end up in thatworld of reaction, which is
what's happening on the planet.
I mean, all you have to do is,you know, go anywhere and have a
conversation about anything,and it's all about who's right,
wrong.
You know, let me prove to youwhy your view is idiotic and
mine is the right view.
But if you can actually dealwith what's real instead of
what's true, you know, realityis sort of view neutral.
(10:19):
You know, this thing that I washolding up is neutral to the
view of it, but your view isshaped by your shoulds, your
shouldn'ts and the context.
So that's why the context is sodecisive, and most people don't
pay attention to the context.
They pay attention to thecontent.
If I just had more money, or ifI just had, you know, less work
(10:39):
, or if I just had the guy orthe girl or whatever you're
going after, and then you getthat thing, and then you might
be happy for like a second, butthe next thing becomes the game
as opposed to fulfilling on aspace or context which is much
(11:01):
more experiential in life.
Donna Eade (11:01):
Yeah, that kind of makes me think of all the
entrepreneurs that are sort ofout there grinding and going for
this goal Like I need to get10K a month and then as soon as
they get that, they don't evenstop and celebrate.
It's like OK, now I need a 15.
Now I need a 20.
Now, I need, and it's just on,and, on, and on and you're
chasing a goal that never ends.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (11:20):
It's.
It's like um, they call uh.
You know I call it the nextcarrot syndrome, because when
you train donkeys you have toput a stick on their head with a
carrot.
They like carrots, but youstick the carrot far enough that
they can never get it.
So they're basically they'renot too bright donkeys, so
they're basically like chasingthe carrot constantly and that
that's how you get donkeys tomove, because they keep going
(11:43):
towards this carrot that they'renever going to get to.
And if you think about it ashuman beings, we're like the
donkeys and we're going for thatsomeday goal, like well,
someday when this happens,someday, when that and that's
not a real day Som related toreality, which most people are
not, because they think theirview is reality and they'll
argue for their view.
(12:11):
They'll even put on a suicidevest and go into a crowded group
of people in honor of theirview, and whether or not you
have like a real suicide vest,or you go into your family and
start being at war with yourfather law, it's the same kind
of thing, because you're soright about your view.
But reality is not right orwrong.
(12:32):
It's just what it is, you know.
It's just whatever that thingwas I was holding up.
There's no is finger or is one.
There's just how it shows upfor you, based on the context.
That's why the context is socritical.
Oh my goodness, wonderful, Iknow right, it's like a rabbit
hole we could go down.
Yeah, absolutely, but that'sthe first step.
So you first get the vision.
(12:52):
Then you start to see what arethe things that mess with you
and it could be situations, butit's always what you make it
mean.
It's always your view of what'shappening that messes with you.
So you dismantle that and thenI support people to design a
hack so they see they're in theworld of reaction and they hack
it.
They literally hack their brainand reroute their brain to go
(13:13):
to that space of vision so thatthey can be acting from their
vision versus driven from areason or a consideration or a
fear or a reaction.
Donna Eade (13:22):
Yeah, I think so many of us live in and I think
we all do like by default we'rereactionary rather than sort of
sitting in that, in that placeand taking a breath and actually
sort of just giving it a minute, just giving it a minute and
actually looking from whatyou're creating, because most
(13:43):
people don't think what am Icreating now?
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (13:45):
They think what do I have to do to
survive this moment?
You know what do I have to doto get through this week.
What do I have to do to getthrough this stock market?
Get whatever it is, you know,get through the next X years or
world of reacting, surviving,making things happen.
So if you think about it, fromwhat you were talking about
(14:08):
before, about entrepreneurs whoare thinking about, you know I'm
working so hard, but you know Idon't have time, or you know I
need to maybe pivot.
What happens for people is theystart something, let's say a
company, I mean.
But it could be a relationship,it could be anything Right.
But you know, when you firstget into a relationship it's so
(14:29):
delicious and juicy and thenafter a few months it's like it
ships over to this, not fromsomething from vision and magic
and creation, but over tosomething that you need to
manage.
So you know, you start yourcompany and it's exciting and
it's new and you're justcreating and you're making
mistakes, but you don't evencare, you're just enlivened by
success.
Failure it doesn't matter.
You're building something.
Then you build it and it shiftsover from the world of creation
(14:51):
to the world of management.
Now you got to manage it.
Now you got to have thatcompany survive.
You got to meet payroll, yougot to have that relationship.
You know, like now you'retalking about who's going to
Costco, not like what are yourdreams?
You know you're no longer inthe conversations that elicit
vision, you're in conversationsthat manage stuff.
(15:12):
And that's what happens forcreators and founders is they
become imprisoned by their verycreation.
At one point it was magical, itwas a creation, but now it's's
a thing, and when somethingturns into a thing, you gotta
manage it, you gotta fix it, yougotta deal with it, you've
gotta improve it.
Donna Eade (15:33):
You know, do your 10k a month, do your 15k a month
, you get you're chasing thecarrot yeah, it's so true and
it's so funny, because the nextthing I wanted to talk about is
this created life versus adefault life, and I almost feel
like that's the creative partfor me.
That's the created, that's thecreated life, and then we get
(15:53):
into the management, which I seeis like the default that we're
all kind of stuck in.
So can you talk to us about howwe can start to intentionally
design a business and a lifethat, even when we feel stuck
and overwhelmed, is more in thatcreated life than the default?
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (16:09):
It's the key question.
I mean because that's what I dowith my entrepreneurs that I
work with for the year longmastermind that I do called the
mastery program, because we'remastering performance, creation
and freedom.
So that's for entrepreneurs whowant to minimally double their
business but work less.
So it really is like freedom.
And how do you do that?
How do you?
And it is a design issue Mostpeople don't design what they're
(16:32):
doing.
They build, but not from adesign.
So I work with people to crafttheir vision, craft what is the
big game they're really out toaccomplish with that company,
let's just say with the company,but it could be with a
relationship, it could be withtheir wellbeing.
You know, it's whatever youwant to work on.
It's really not only limited tobusiness.
But then we do a year backwardsplan.
(16:54):
So we start a year out and wego okay, what do you want
January or April of whateveryear to look like?
Now we're going to go backwards.
Most people plan from hereforward and they get limited in
their thinking because they'rethinking from what they have,
what they have access to, whatthey currently are doing,
revenue wise, all that.
(17:15):
So I go no, no, no, we're goingto erase all that.
We're starting from nothing.
And if you could createanything, what would you create?
X month, a year from now?
So then we start there andstart to backwards plan.
Okay, so if you were going toand I'll just use a metric
because it's just easier to useIf you want to do a million
dollars in revenue by April of2026, let's say so, what will
(17:38):
have had to happen by Februaryof 2026 for a million to be a
done deal?
So they're not coming from the5,000 they have now or whatever
it is, they're coming from themillion.
Well, I will have had to do800,000 by February, definitely
for the million to be guaranteed.
Okay, good, so now we're goingto stand in February.
(17:58):
We've done $800,000.
Now let's go back to December1st.
What will have had to happenrevenue-wise?
And this is like a simple kindof math thing, right?
So you're just doing math atthis point and it doesn't have
to be equally distributedbetween the 12 months, because
you know it's just.
You get momentum or whateveryou're planning for, and then,
when you get close enough to thepresent, like about a month out
(18:19):
, you start creating an actionplan for what would you have to
do to have that milestone thatyou created for a month from now
be a done deal.
What are the actions that aregoing to have that happen?
And what happens when you dothe planning from the future
backwards is you start toilluminate what's missing either
in team members in your companyor in systems and structures
(18:43):
Like we don't even have abilling system in our.
You know like, ok, we betterbuild that structures.
Like we don't even have abilling system in our you know
like okay, we better build thatyou know.
So you start to see what youneed to implement and put in
place, or people that you needto hire or find or partner with
to be able to fulfill on whatyou're fulfilling on.
And then the big key is thatbecause people get messable with
executing their plan, they comeup with a plan and then they
(19:04):
don't do it.
That's one of the biggestthings that messes with people.
Yeah, totally, and especiallyif they don't have the plan with
someone else, because they'remore likely to do it if they
promise someone else than ifthey promise themselves.
So most of the work I do withpeople, you know, which falls
more into the mindset world, istheir relationship to their word
, because people have a weakrelationship to their word.
(19:27):
They justify, they excuse theirword.
They justify, they excusethemselves out, they reason,
they go.
Well, you know, I didn't reallysleep last night so I'm not
going to go to the gym today.
Maybe I'll go to my.
And you know, they just kind ofconvince themselves that
there's no impact of that, but Iget people to get.
There's a huge impact of thatbecause if you say X and do Y,
you just became less powerful.
So if you say X and do X andsay X and do X and say X and do
(19:50):
X, then your word starts to havesome weight in the universe.
And you know I have a tattoo.
It says abracadabra, whichsounds like magic, but what it
literally means in ancientAramaic is with my word, I
create.
Donna Eade (20:04):
Oh, wow.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (20:04):
So if your word is is weak, your
creation is going to be weak.
So I work with people on how tohave the best opportunity set
to fulfill what they're creating.
So they can say, double mybusiness in a year, and it
happens.
Or they could say, intimacy inmy marriage, and it happens,
because their word has weight.
It isn't what they give theirword to, it's that the word
(20:25):
itself is magic.
Donna Eade (20:29):
That is magic.
That is magic.
I completely see it when I lookat people around me, when I
look at myself, and I am so oneof those people.
If I've promised somebody else,I'm doing something.
I'm there and I'm doing it.
I literally have a weighttrainer.
I go to her house on a Mondaynight to do weights with her and
she asked me to do two othersessions a week without her and
(20:50):
because I'm going to see her onMonday, I do it.
But if it was just me, I knowmyself.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (20:55):
I wouldn't do it.
Donna Eade (20:56):
I'd make all those excuses, just like you said Well
, that's what people do.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (21:00):
And it's interesting because the
biggest thing I deal with myentrepreneurs in the second year
of the program is that they'vedeveloped now this ability and
this muscle with their word, buttheir teams don't have it.
So, here they are in this worldof performance, but if you're
working with people who are notin that game, what you're going
to get is a lot of explanationsand reasons and justifications
(21:22):
for why things aren't happening,and that's a different kind of
water to swim in.
Donna Eade (21:26):
It is, it is.
So let's talk about practicesand routines, because I think a
lot of the time when we'retalking about this stuff, it's
part of a practice.
You have to keep going and dosomething again and again and
again to embed it, and it ismore I.
I think habits are a funny onefor me because I feel like I can
(21:50):
do something, the the 21 timesor the the 60 times, however
many you want to say it takes todo it, and I will still do.
Default having peanut butter ontoast for my lunch because I
like it and it's easy.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (22:03):
It's just you know it takes.
I know my trainer's alwaysthink you're not eating enough
protein.
Dah, dah, dah dah, unless Idesign a system to deliver
protein to me.
I mean literally, unless Idesign the time to prep my meals
and then I have to put in mycalendar eat, because I'll
forget.
I love what I do.
I'm just caught up in thewhatever.
So I have to schedule myshowers and I have to schedule
(22:24):
my eating and I have to scheduleboiling six eggs because
otherwise they won't be there.
Donna Eade (22:29):
Yeah exactly that, exactly that.
So can you share with us apractice or a routine that helps
you stay grounded in whatmatters most to you?
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (22:38):
Well, the first thing, again starting
with vision, is when you wake upin the morning.
If you notice you don't wake upusually inspired and alive, and
mostly you wake up into thatdefault world of, oh, I didn't
get enough sleep, or oh, I haveso much to do today, or let me
just hit snooze for a little bit.
So the default world is alwaysthere, ready to suck you in,
(23:00):
right?
So one thing I find reallyuseful in the morning is to
create what I'm creating thatday, so to create a context for
the day.
So it could be maybe you'recreating the context of
happiness that day, or you'recreating the concept of peace of
mind, or whatever it is thatyou're creating.
I then come up with promisesthat will fulfill on it.
(23:22):
I have a whole.
I have like two books that I'vewritten about promises.
I have something called thepromise game, which is like a
five day game you can play.
It's free on my website and Ihave a daily practices to be on.
I have a lot of free stuff onthe website to get people muscle
, but promising is a verypowerful tool.
First of all, it's your word,right?
So if you're creating happiness, one promise could be I promise
(23:44):
to make three people laughtoday.
So now you have this kind ofthing.
That's there because youcreated it and it just kind of
guides you through the day.
It has you interactingdifferently with people.
You know, maybe at Starbucksyou're not just head down
ordering your latte, you'reinteracting with the person to
have them smile or laugh, and soit gives you a different
(24:05):
quality of the day.
So I find that's a good way tostart practicing creating and
see what it looks like when yousay something and then manifest
it as a function of your actions.
It's not like, you know, make avision board and then just hope
it's.
You know you have to takeaction to fulfill on it.
But it does give you differentactions.
If you create, you know if my,if my creation is, you know,
(24:28):
peace of mind for the day, Imight take three breaks and
meditate for five minutes that Inormally wouldn't do, or take a
walk by the water.
If you have the ability to dothat, that for me.
That really calms me and, youknow, gives me peace from an
external perspective.
So so those are some practicesthat people could start right
away from an externalperspective.
Donna Eade (24:47):
So so those are some practices that people could
start right away.
Yeah, yeah, I love that, andwater is one of mine, and
unfortunately I don't live nearthe sea.
It's about two hours away fromme, but that is my favorite
place.
We do have a lake nearby, butwhat I found is I'm always going
(25:09):
at the wrong time and the gnatsand the midges are out and I'm
just like that.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (25:10):
That is not happy for me.
I'm with you.
I'd rather watch a video ofwater than be by a lake with
gnats.
Donna Eade (25:14):
Okay absolutely, absolutely, yeah, oh dear.
But, yeah, water does calm metoo.
It's one of my favorites, um.
So, moving on, what advicecould you give to to women who
feel like their voice and theirmessage are being watered down
because they're worried aboutwhat others might think?
Because I think that's a bigone.
(25:36):
Now, majority of my listenersare women and I think one of the
things that I sort of promoteand talk about a lot is using
podcasting to amplify yourmessage and your voice.
Talk about a lot is usingpodcasting to amplify your
message and your voice, but Ithink a lot of the times, women
are generally you know, justfrom the gender gap pushed down
and like belittled and you knowyou're not important.
(25:57):
What you've got to say isn't asimportant as what I've got to
say, and things like that.
So how can we get past that inour own minds and speak our
truth?
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (26:07):
get past that in our own minds and
speak our truth.
Well, it's interesting becausethe majority of my clients are
women also.
It's about a 70-30 split.
You know, I do have maleclients and I find it happens
with men too.
It just doesn't seem asprevalent because they're not as
expressive about it.
But you know, women will talkabout it, but it is, men are
just as worried about whatpeople think.
(26:28):
Uh, surprisingly to some women.
Um, and it really is one ofthose uh, things that mess with
all people is looking good andavoiding looking bad, and that
also has to do with that wholeworld of reaction.
It's like you have so manyviews about yourself.
See, whatever it is that messeswith you is something that
(26:49):
you're not complete withyourself.
If you're complete withsomething, then it doesn't mess
with you, like if you don't haveany doubt about your own
intelligence.
If somebody calls you stupid,it doesn't bother you.
It's like somebody calling youan eggplant.
It's like what are you talkingabout?
I'm not an eggplant, I'm not.
Like, why would I even be upsetabout that?
It's like you know, okay, youknow whatever you say.
(27:09):
So you're not hookable by thosethings that are complete for
you.
So the work that I would dowith people that have that kind
of trigger is to get themcomplete about not only who they
are, what they're capable of,but sort of the views they've
constructed over the years aboutthemselves.
(27:31):
Now it might have beenoriginated by somebody saying to
them oh, you're so, you know,you're so sweet.
And now they're trapped inbeing sweet and they can't be
assertive because they're inthis prison called being sweet
and that's not necessarily a badthing, but it is a prison
nonetheless.
So I break people out of prison.
I mean that's basicallynecessarily a bad thing, but it
is a prison nonetheless.
So I break people out of prison.
I mean I, that's basically whatI do.
I break people out of theprison of their limiting beliefs
(27:53):
, of their views, of the thingsthat they think are true that
aren't, and I can share from myown life.
When I was four, I loved singing.
I was like all about singing.
And when I was five I asked myfather how come he stopped
painting?
Because he used to paint allthe time.
And I noticed he stoppedpainting.
He goes.
Well, you can't do your art asyour career.
Now, he wasn't trying to likekill my dream, but he just
(28:15):
that's how it was for him.
You can't do your art as yourcareer, so he's in advertising,
Right?
So I go.
Ok, five years old, I go.
I see you can't do your art asyour career.
I got it, no problem.
Pivot, I'm not going to be asinger, I'll be a lawyer or I'll
be a business person.
And I lived my life like it wastrue that you couldn't do your
art as your career.
So when you think something'strue, you're going to find
(28:37):
evidence for it everywhere,right?
So then flash forward.
I was in my very early 20s.
I was in a transformativeworkshop myself and
transformative workshop myself,and I had this insight like what
if that's not true?
What if that is something Imade up and believed in the
infinite wisdom of five and thenended up proving over and over
again, with whatever evidence Igathered.
(28:57):
And it loosened its grip on me.
I'm telling you, Donna, withinthree months I had a record deal
.
After getting rid of thatlimiting belief, I was able to
fulfill my lifetime dream that Inever thought would happen
within three months, and thenthat record went number one.
We had the number one record inthe country, knocked Whitney
Houston out of the number onespot with I will always love you
(29:18):
.
I mean, it was a total dreamcome true, and that's where I
became committed to empoweringother people to live their
dreams, because I was like, ifthat can happen in three months
for me by disappearing onecrappy limiting belief, if I
could do this for people andunleash them, set them free to
fulfill their dreams, that's alife worth living.
Donna Eade (29:36):
Oh it sounds amazing .
It sounds amazing and what anachievement to not quickly use.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (29:43):
No, but my point is all these people
that you're talking about thatfeel stifled or put down or
whatever it's like, yeah, butwhat's putting them down or
what's keeping them down aremostly limiting beliefs, views,
shoulds, good, bad, right, wrong, it's not.
It's not right to speak out ina meeting, or it's not good or
(30:04):
it's not acceptable.
All that stuff is language.
It's not good or it's notacceptable.
All that stuff is language.
It's not reality, you know.
So how do you craft arelationship to reality through
context?
That's going to give you power.
That's going to give you theability to say what you need to
say to impact who you want toimpact.
So and I also have becauseimposter syndrome is a big thing
for people, you know, which iskind of what you're pointing to
(30:25):
I have a whole imposter syndromeprocess that I give people
again free on my website so thatif people are dealing with that
, just do this process and itwill bust that up for you.
Donna Eade (30:36):
Brilliant, brilliant .
Well, make sure that thewebsite is linked in the show
notes for sure, guys, because itsounds like that is a website
you spend ages on just goingthrough all the free stuff.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (30:46):
I know it's true.
It's like you know, you havedozens of free things before you
ever have to spend a dollar towork with me.
And you know, not everybody hasa dollar, so it's not a problem
.
I mean, I want people to havethese tools and there's other
ways to work with me, obviouslyon a deeper, more intimate level
.
But gift from Joss J-O-S-S isthe part of the site, that's all
the freebies.
(31:06):
Gift from Joss period,brilliant, fantastic.
Donna Eade (31:12):
So we'll make sure that's linked below.
So let's finish on, before wejump into all my fun questions,
my little quick fire round.
Let's finish on how beingunmessable with has impacted the
way you run your business andshow up in your life, because I
think we've obviously seen whereit started with that, that
career that you didn't think youcould have, but now, on a
(31:36):
day-to-day basis, here and now,how does it?
How does it show up for you?
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (31:42):
Well, it shows up every day.
So I mean, I'll just take alifelong dream of mine which was
to live in Paris and I alwayssaid, oh, someday I'm just take
a lifelong dream of mine whichwas to live in Paris and I
always said, oh, someday I'mgoing to move to Paris, someday,
like wherever.
Someday was it was like maybewhen I retire blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah.
And I worked for 30 years for aseminar company called Landmark
, which I highly recommend, ifnobody's done the Landmark Forum
.
It's transformative.
And I was one of the 20 peopleor so that led that program
(32:06):
around the world and I helpeddevelop the advanced course and
I was accountable for theadvanced course and trained the
leaders for the.
I mean, like it was my life forlike 30 years.
I really lived and ate andbreathed it, but I was working
70 to 80 hours a week, Right.
So when I uh was decided toleave because I was like you
know, it's time for a newchapter in my life, I don't know
(32:28):
what I'm going to do, but I'mgoing to stop working 80 hours a
week and I'm going to reallylook at okay, what do I want to
create with my family?
My daughter was coming homefrom at that time, rehab and I
wanted to be available for herand all of that.
My parents were getting older,so I gave my notice a year's
notice.
I gave my notice a year'snotice, I trained my replacement
and all of that and then Icompleted with honor and then I
(32:50):
took like a few months off and Iwas just kind of like, okay,
now, what?
Now, what am I going to do,Right, and what am I going to
create?
So I created a course, becausethat's what I do.
I design curriculum and I'mleading the course.
It's called the foundation forbeing unmessable with and as I'm
leading one of the sessions.
I'm leading one of the sessions.
(33:11):
I'm.
I'm telling people you havesomeday dreams.
It's not a real day, blah, blah, blah.
You know, like everything Isaid earlier.
And then I realized that I havea someday dream.
You know, like it was like a V8moment, I was like oh my God,
what a blind spot here.
I am, you, you, you.
And then I was like, oh my God,the fingers at me and I got off
the Zoom call and I said to myhusband okay, are we going to
really do this or are we justgoing to talk about it Like it's
(33:33):
a someday thing for the rest ofour lives?
He goes no, we should do it.
I go, okay, when let's just seta date, I don't care if it's
five years from now, whatever.
We set a date for a longweekend, like a week later, and
we met these people who had anapartment there that they were
(33:53):
moving out of.
So we ended up getting thatlease and we've been, you know,
basically spending almost halfthe year there every year now
since then.
And that took a lot.
Because, you know, first of all, of course, I have doubts and I
go into the world of reactionlike, oh my God, what are we
doing?
And you know the kids are stillkind of young, you know they're
over 18.
But, like you know my parentsand all the reasons and I would
(34:18):
call my husband.
I said, ok, we got to talkabout these reasons.
He's like, yeah, ok, we cantalk about the reasons, but what
are we creating?
It really was, and my parentswere like, go, what are you
waiting for us to die?
Or something like go, you know.
And it was kind of the truth ina weird way, right.
So we've been able to keepfulfilling that now.
So I went from working like 80hours a week to maybe 30 to 40
(34:41):
hours a week, right.
But in that first year ofbusiness, I was like, okay, this
and I quadrupled my income Imean more, you know.
And I was like, okay, how do Iget this down?
Like, if I'm going to createwhat I want, how many hours do I
really want to work a week?
And I was like I want to worklike 10 to 15 hours a week and I
want to spend the rest of thetime, you know, being doing
going to the gym or yoga, orbeing with my family or
(35:03):
traveling or whatever.
You know I was creating allthis stuff, right.
So I designed the next year likewhat that would have to look
like, and it ended upreformatting everything I was
doing, and I now work between 10and 15 hours a week and have
(35:31):
exponentially increased myincome at the so, really like
even more than five X, becauseI'm working less, yeah, so who
knows, 10 X.
I haven't done the math, but Isaid, okay, this everything I
was doing to give people accessto fulfilling their dreams in
the entertainment business.
Now I was like, okay, that's it.
You know, I'm going to giveentrepreneurs the chance to have
freedom and fulfillment andease and not have to work harder
, but work smarter and create anenvironment of performance.
(35:53):
And my life is so easy.
It's a joke.
It's a joke.
I mean I wake up, I have topinch myself.
I'm like I have half the timein New York, then I go to Paris,
then I, you know, have myclients.
I mean I love the people that Iwork with.
They're fulfilling on dreamsthey've had forever and that's
like I get to have that result.
That all these people areproducing the results that
(36:15):
they've always wanted writingbooks and, you know,
unbelievable, it's just magicyeah, yeah, I can imagine being
being the person that's behindthat, watching that.
Donna Eade (36:25):
It's like, um, when I see people that I've taught to
do a podcast and they're goingout, and anytime I see them put
it on social media, I'm like,yeah, you go girl exactly like
second hand joy it's a.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (36:38):
It's a perfect example, because you
know, like I still get messablewith, I just get out of it
quickly because I wanted tostart a podcast for a long time
but I didn't know anything.
I didn't even know what, uh,whatever, the, the rss, what.
I didn't know anything.
I was like I have no idea, Ididn't.
I never listened to a podcast,I didn't know what it was and I
I finally, oh, I have all thesereasons not to do it.
(36:59):
And then I said, what am Idoing?
I just got to practice what Iteach.
So I just set a date and thenbackwards planned it and when I
launched my podcast, um, in Juneof last year, I had 40 episodes
banked.
I have the episodes bankedthrough the end of the year at
this point.
You know I have so manyepisodes and I just keep
recording them.
And we hit number 32 on theApple podcast charts in
education and self development.
(37:20):
A few months ago not on thecharts right now, but but we did
hit 32.
So I was like we're top 2% inthe world.
I was like how is this possible?
It's because I just fulfilledon what I designed, and that's
the point.
If you design it, you canfulfill on it.
If you don't design it bydefault, you're just going to
deal with what life is throwingat you?
Donna Eade (37:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
Oh, I love that so good, sogood.
So my next question is one thatI ask all of my guests and
because this podcast is calledMindset in Action, this is our
mindset one, but this is usuallyquite a difficult one for
people who work in the mindsetspace to answer, because they go
(38:03):
into teaching mode instead ofreflecting mode.
So I'm going to ask you to tryand step into reflecting mode.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (38:08):
Okay, you got it.
Donna Eade (38:09):
Answer what has been the biggest mindset block that
you've had to overcome?
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (38:16):
Well, I would say it's what I shared
with you about you can't do yourart as your career.
Like actually, thatdisappearing as a truth unlocked
everything in my life and itbecame like a new context for me
.
So I got to fulfill on my dreamas a child of being a singer.
(38:36):
But I also get to do my art asmy career.
Now my art is coaching, so Iget to fulfill on that and it's
just, it's overarching.
So that really had a hugeimpact and it's impacted even my
father, who was the one whosaid it when I was five.
He's 91 and he's a painter.
Now that's what he does.
We just built a studio for himand he's a painter.
(38:57):
Now that's what he does.
We just built a studio for himand he's painting daily and has
had shows and you know.
So it's a it's.
It bleeds over to other peopletoo.
Donna Eade (39:06):
I love that, I love that and and, like you said, art
is subjective, so it's one ofthose things that art, just like
the finger, it's, yeah, it'swhat you put on it.
So some people will saycoaching's not art, that's, it's
coaching.
You know it's not, but to me,anything that you are skilled at
, that like it absolutelythrills me to watch somebody in
(39:27):
their element doing their thing,because it is, it's beautiful
to watch, it's magic, and it iseven like the olympics right.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (39:33):
I mean you watch somebody who's an
athlete and it's like, or a youknow a musician or I mean it's
magical.
I mean I know that now I'mgonna out myself as a Barry
Manilow fan, but I went to seeBarry Manilow last week and to
me I could cry he's such amaster at what he does and he's
been doing for 50 years.
So, yeah, he is a master.
(39:53):
But that's why I call my workthe art of being unmessable with
.
It really is, it's my art.
Donna Eade (40:00):
Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
So we're going to move on to myquick fire round, which is
where we get to know just alittle bit of the inside, what
goes on inside Joss's head.
So what is a podcast thatyou're loving right now?
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (40:14):
Well, I really like Tyrone Jackson's
Trading Stocks Made Easy.
I love stocks and I actuallywork with Tyrone as a coach.
He coaches me in stock tradingand I love his podcast, so
that's one Brilliant.
Donna Eade (40:29):
And what is the book that has made the biggest
impact on your life so far?
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (40:35):
Well, when I was young I would say it
was the Great Gatsby.
I really loved that book.
It was my favorite book, fromthe imagery and all that.
But I haven't read the GreatGatsby in like 35 years, so I'd
say recently in terms of abusiness book is Dan Martell's
Buy Back your Time.
That has had a huge impact onme and I've taken a lot of what
he does and adapted it for whatI do.
So I'm a big Dan Martell fan.
(40:57):
Not everything he says, becausehe's a little bro kind of
marketing kind of you know, butthe thinking behind it I love.
Donna Eade (41:05):
Brilliant, okay.
Well, guys, I will make sureboth those books are linked in
my guest's bookshelf as normal,so do go and check those out.
And then, what's your go-tosnack if you're in a hurry,
hard-boiled eggs.
As in a hurry, hard boiled eggsas long as you've boiled them,
yes exactly as long as youscheduled that boil I boiled
(41:25):
last night.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (41:26):
I boiled six.
You know I do six at a time,but honestly I should do 12.
That's how much I eat them,yeah, yeah.
Donna Eade (41:32):
I, my other half, came home with 12 eggs from the
grocery store.
Um, yes, at the weekend and Ilooked at them and I was like
what, what?
What's going on?
Why have you only bought 20?
Said they didn't have 15.
I said so why didn't you buy 24?
Like I literally have two eggsand two egg whites for breakfast
every morning, this isn't gonnalast me a week eggs are the
(41:52):
best, even though they're soexpensive.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (41:54):
Now I have to say and everybody's
talking about the egg pricesthere's still a deal, you know,
if you think about it.
And they're my favorite.
I love eggs.
Donna Eade (42:01):
Brilliant.
And then what is your ultimateme time thing to do?
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (42:07):
Walking by the water.
I would say I really love it inNew York City.
I live right by the East Riverso I can walk out my door and
walk down the water, and I'mmoving to New Jersey in a month,
which I can't believe.
I'm saying that.
So if anybody from Jersey islistening, I'm no offense, but I
(42:28):
never thought I would.
But it really made sensebecause I want an environment
that really nurtures me, andthis building has a pool and a
sauna and a steam and it's righton the water.
So again, and my parents when Ispend time in the Hamptons,
because I live there too.
So again, and my parents when Ispend time in the Hamptons,
because I live there too, rightby the water.
And then in Paris I'm right bythe Seine, and so I think water
is sort of the like you, my, mygo-to.
Donna Eade (42:46):
I love that.
I love that.
Well, I I went to Paris lastyear.
It was on my vision board and Imade it happen and I absolutely
love the place, and so nexttime you're, next time you're
over uh, give me a bell.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (42:59):
I'll get on the.
Donna Eade (43:00):
Eurostar.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (43:01):
I'll be there next week, so you know
you let me know the next timeyou want to come, because I I'm
there a lot.
I love it, it's, it's it.
I breathe better there.
Yeah, I have since I was 16.
Donna Eade (43:13):
I want to give a big , big thank you to Jocelyn for
coming on the podcast.
We had some technicaldifficulties on my end with the
internet connection and Jocelynwas an absolute trooper.
We didn't actually get to doour outro because of that.
So I wanted to just say thankyou so much, jocelyn, for coming
on the show.
I think it was a reallypowerful conversation, really
(43:35):
interesting.
I think it was a reallypowerful conversation, really
interesting, and I loved hearingabout your life and your dreams
and how you've made them cometrue and how you have used your
system of being unmessable withthroughout your life to bring
those visions to fruition andfor sharing with us.
So, as Jocelyn said, she has awebsite.
(43:57):
It's beunmessablewithcom.
You can head over there.
There is a freebies tab whereall of those things that she was
talking about today will beavailable for you.
You can also join her onInstagram.
She is instagramcom.
Forward slash beunmessablewith.
You can find her there.
She is also on LinkedIn,jocelyn Herman Satchio.
(44:20):
You can find her there as well,and I will have all of those
links in the show notes for you.
So head over to DonnaEcomforward slash blog and check out
this episode 314 to find all ofthe show notes for this episode
.
Thanks again, jocelyn, forcoming on the show.
Thank you guys for listeningand I'll see you next week.
(44:41):
Bye for now.
You're listening to the Mindset in Action podcast,
the place to be to grow andstreamline your business.
I'm your host, donna Eade.
Let's jump into the show.
Welcome to the podcast,everybody.
I am so glad to have you heretoday because I have brought
(00:22):
another fantastic guest for you,jocelyn Herman-Saccio.
Welcome to the show, thank you.
Thanks for having me.
I am so excited for thisconversation because I have been
doing a lot of inner work overthe last few years and it has
dug up a lot of things, and Ithink that this episode is going
(00:45):
to probably hit on a few ofthose.
So I'm really the selfish.
Reason for running this podcastis so that I get to learn all
these good things from people,so I'm really, really happy to
be having this conversation withyou today.
Josselyne Herman-Sacc (00:58):
Excellent .
I'm thrilled to be able to, youknow, be here with you and your
listeners and make whateverdifference we can make today.
Donna Eade (01:04):
Okay, so first of all, before we jump into all the
goodness, please do introduceyourself to the audience.
Let us know a little bit aboutyour background and what it is
that you're up to at the moment.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (01:15):
Sure.
So I'm what they call a mastercoach, and basically anybody
who's a master has spent atleast 10,000 hours doing
something right, and I've spentway more than that.
It's almost 47 years I've beenin the transformative space.
So I coach people, I supportthem in architecting their
vision, but my mission is toreally empower people to live
(01:38):
their dreams not chase them anddevelop what I call the ability
to be unmessable with no matterwhat life throws at you, because
life throws stuff at us.
So how do you stay on track tofulfilling your vision when life
is lifing and happening?
And that's really what I'mabout.
So I've worked with over 200,000people directly as a coach and
(02:00):
course leader and I've developedcurriculum.
I in the old days was a popsinger and had a number one
record, so I come from adifferent part of the business,
so to speak, and then ended upstarting an entertainment
business to empower people inthe entertainment business to
fulfill their dreams.
But it has become so muchbroader than that.
(02:20):
It's not just entertainment.
I mostly work withentrepreneurs, executives, you
know people who are foundersthat are really out to increase
their impact, their legacy,their productivity, their income
, but not work more.
Work less, impact more and makemore.
Donna Eade (02:39):
So that's the game I play with them.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (02:41):
Yes, it's a good game.
Donna Eade (02:44):
I think that I think what I'm seeing more and more
coming out of the internet rightnow social media in particular
is so many people stepping awayfrom things that they've done.
I've literally seen it in thelast two or three days two or
more YouTubers that I watchstepping away from what it is
(03:06):
that they have been doing for solong and saying I need to get
back to what I originally wantedto do, my dream.
Like I got carried away withlife and I've been led down this
path and it's not fulfilling me.
And in the entrepreneur spaceas well, with my, you know,
friends and and colleagues inbusiness that are just like I
just need to reduce my hours oryou know, this isn't what I
(03:30):
wanted.
I need to scale back, and thisis sort of the the thing that
I've been hearing more and more,and I think it's almost like
that hustle bubble has finallyburst?
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (03:41):
I mean, I hope so, because it's so not
fulfilling and I and I work withhighly effective people, but
they are in reaction mode allday long and the work that I do.
When I say being unmessablewith it doesn't mean being tough
or something.
It's about being able to shiftfrom reaction mode to creation
mode on a dime, because thatspace of creation is magical.
(04:02):
That space of creation ismagical.
You know there's no burnout,there's no overwhelm in that
world.
But in the world of reactionyou're constantly dealing with
the never ending to do list andyou know things coming at you
and got to put out fires and itvery highly effective people are
good at reacting, but that's avery different space than that
space of vision and magic.
(04:23):
You know really when you'recreating.
Donna Eade (04:26):
Absolutely.
Let's jump into this theme,your anthem, your cry of being
unmessable with.
Talk to us about that, and howcan someone start cultivating
that mindset?
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (04:41):
Well, it definitely starts with vision
, and you'd be shocked how manypeople I say, okay, what's your
vision?
And they give me a goal.
And a goal is not a vision.
A goal is something that'sgoing to happen at some point in
time, whatever whether it's ina year or six months or six
years, and that's different.
That's content of your life.
Vision is more of a linguistic,contextual space.
(05:05):
So the difference betweencontext and content I like to do
this with people, just so itbecomes like super, super simple
is, you know, for those of youthat are listening, you won't
see this, but if you're watchingthe podcast, I'm holding up
what you would call is mypointer finger, and if I say, in
the context of body part, whatis this?
It's pretty.
I mean, you can just answer.
I'm not trying to trick you.
What is this in the context ofbody part?
(05:25):
What is this?
It's pretty, I mean, you canjust answer, I'm not trying to
trick you.
What is this in the context ofbody part?
It's a finger, exactly.
Donna Eade (05:30):
Ding, ding, ding Right.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (05:31):
But now I'm not going to change
anything in reality.
I'm holding up the same thing,but I'm going to say, okay, now
in the context of number, whatis it?
It's one, it's one and youdon't have to think about that,
you don't have to figure it out,it shows up for you as a one.
And if I say, okay, now in thecontext of direction, what is it
?
Up Up, so you have the sameexact reality, but the context
(05:56):
shapes how you view reality.
And the context is linguisticin nature.
It's made up of language, soit's alterable, it's
transformable at any givenmoment.
So what I work on with people isnot just the content, which is
important you have to have goalsand all those things but what
context are you functioning from?
And most people function fromthat world of reaction and
(06:19):
survival as a default context.
So being unmessable with isreally about having the context
of your life be your vision, bewhat you're out to actually
fulfill on in life, not whatyou're out to accomplish.
That's very different, becauseyou know people.
You could add up youraccomplishments and it's
staggering how much you'veaccomplished but you're not
(06:40):
fulfilled.
That's the difference.
So it's like what are youfulfilling on and when you're
fulfilling on a vision, it's acompletely different quality of
life.
It's like you get fulfillmentright now, not someday when you
hit that goal.
So it's like a backwards way ofliving, but in a good way.
Donna Eade (06:57):
Oh, I love that.
That sounds so much better.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (07:01):
Yes, it is.
It just is, I mean like interms of better or worse.
It's more alive, it's moremagical, it's more vibrant, it's
more you can breathe better inthe world of vision.
It's like, if you think of itdirectionally, when you're in
that world of survival andreaction and shoulds and
shouldn'ts and goods and badsand rights and wrongs and the
whole world that we live in,right I on the news, it's not
(07:24):
far away, right, or go to yourdinner table, it's right there.
That's a very down and in world.
So it's like suffocating, it'sconstraining, but vision and
creation is up and out.
You're like reallydirectionally in a different
space which gives you more roomto be so having our vision is
(07:46):
really important to beingunmessable with.
Donna Eade (07:49):
But unfortunately, we don't live in a vacuum, and I
happened to catch the beginning, or I was just checking out
your YouTube channel before wejumped on here um, and I saw
that you did an episode on beingdisappointed.
Yes, that was just recently.
Yeah, so we don't live in avacuum.
(08:10):
There are people around us thatare asking things of us, you
know, demanding things of us.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (08:19):
Or promising things of us and then
not delivering right.
Donna Eade (08:22):
Promising exactly, Promising and not delivering
right.
Promising, exactly.
So what do we do to kind ofprotect ourselves in that
situation, so that we maintainthat unmessable attitude?
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (08:32):
Well, it's never what happens that
messes with you.
I know that sounds kind ofcounterintuitive, but if
somebody says they're going tomeet you at seven and then they
are late, that meeting you atseven and coming at 730 didn't
mess with you.
It's that you thought theyshould be there at seven.
(08:52):
The should is what messes withyou.
So what I do with people isfirst we distinguish the vision
so that you have some place tobe unmessable with.
What are you being unmessablewith about is your vision.
So we create the vision andthen we start to distinguish and
dismantle all the things thatmess with you.
So again, when people say X anddo Y, it isn't what they did or
(09:13):
didn't do that messes with you.
It's that you expected them todo X and that's what.
What ends up messing with us isthey should have known or they
should have called or theyshould have.
Shoulds and shouldn'ts are verybig, you know, messable with
moment makers, money messes withpeople, sleep messes with
(09:34):
people, all sorts of wellbeingstuff messes with people.
But shoulds, shouldn'ts, thingsthat are right, wrong, good,
bad, all of that stuff is notreal.
It's in our view of life.
So it's like we have a viewthat something's good, but to
somebody else it could be a viewthat it's bad.
So when you start arguing forwhat's right or wrong, or true
(09:55):
or false, you end up in thatworld of reaction, which is
what's happening on the planet.
I mean, all you have to do is,you know, go anywhere and have a
conversation about anything,and it's all about who's right,
wrong.
You know, let me prove to youwhy your view is idiotic and
mine is the right view.
But if you can actually dealwith what's real instead of
what's true, you know, realityis sort of view neutral.
(10:19):
You know, this thing that I washolding up is neutral to the
view of it, but your view isshaped by your shoulds, your
shouldn'ts and the context.
So that's why the context is sodecisive, and most people don't
pay attention to the context.
They pay attention to thecontent.
If I just had more money, or ifI just had, you know, less work
(10:39):
, or if I just had the guy orthe girl or whatever you're
going after, and then you getthat thing, and then you might
be happy for like a second, butthe next thing becomes the game
as opposed to fulfilling on aspace or context which is much
(11:01):
more experiential in life.
Donna Eade (11:01):
Yeah, that kind of makes me think of all the
entrepreneurs that are sort ofout there grinding and going for
this goal Like I need to get10K a month and then as soon as
they get that, they don't evenstop and celebrate.
It's like OK, now I need a 15.
Now I need a 20.
Now, I need, and it's just on,and, on, and on and you're
chasing a goal that never ends.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (11:20):
It's.
It's like um, they call uh.
You know I call it the nextcarrot syndrome, because when
you train donkeys you have toput a stick on their head with a
carrot.
They like carrots, but youstick the carrot far enough that
they can never get it.
So they're basically they'renot too bright donkeys, so
they're basically like chasingthe carrot constantly and that
that's how you get donkeys tomove, because they keep going
(11:43):
towards this carrot that they'renever going to get to.
And if you think about it ashuman beings, we're like the
donkeys and we're going for thatsomeday goal, like well,
someday when this happens,someday, when that and that's
not a real day Som related toreality, which most people are
not, because they think theirview is reality and they'll
argue for their view.
(12:11):
They'll even put on a suicidevest and go into a crowded group
of people in honor of theirview, and whether or not you
have like a real suicide vest,or you go into your family and
start being at war with yourfather law, it's the same kind
of thing, because you're soright about your view.
But reality is not right orwrong.
(12:32):
It's just what it is, you know.
It's just whatever that thingwas I was holding up.
There's no is finger or is one.
There's just how it shows upfor you, based on the context.
That's why the context is socritical.
Oh my goodness, wonderful, Iknow right, it's like a rabbit
hole we could go down.
Yeah, absolutely, but that'sthe first step.
So you first get the vision.
(12:52):
Then you start to see what arethe things that mess with you
and it could be situations, butit's always what you make it
mean.
It's always your view of what'shappening that messes with you.
So you dismantle that and thenI support people to design a
hack so they see they're in theworld of reaction and they hack
it.
They literally hack their brainand reroute their brain to go
(13:13):
to that space of vision so thatthey can be acting from their
vision versus driven from areason or a consideration or a
fear or a reaction.
Donna Eade (13:22):
Yeah, I think so many of us live in and I think
we all do like by default we'rereactionary rather than sort of
sitting in that, in that placeand taking a breath and actually
sort of just giving it a minute, just giving it a minute and
actually looking from whatyou're creating, because most
(13:43):
people don't think what am Icreating now?
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (13:45):
They think what do I have to do to
survive this moment?
You know what do I have to doto get through this week.
What do I have to do to getthrough this stock market?
Get whatever it is, you know,get through the next X years or
world of reacting, surviving,making things happen.
So if you think about it, fromwhat you were talking about
(14:08):
before, about entrepreneurs whoare thinking about, you know I'm
working so hard, but you know Idon't have time, or you know I
need to maybe pivot.
What happens for people is theystart something, let's say a
company, I mean.
But it could be a relationship,it could be anything Right.
But you know, when you firstget into a relationship it's so
(14:29):
delicious and juicy and thenafter a few months it's like it
ships over to this, not fromsomething from vision and magic
and creation, but over tosomething that you need to
manage.
So you know, you start yourcompany and it's exciting and
it's new and you're justcreating and you're making
mistakes, but you don't evencare, you're just enlivened by
success.
Failure it doesn't matter.
You're building something.
Then you build it and it shiftsover from the world of creation
(14:51):
to the world of management.
Now you got to manage it.
Now you got to have thatcompany survive.
You got to meet payroll, yougot to have that relationship.
You know, like now you'retalking about who's going to
Costco, not like what are yourdreams?
You know you're no longer inthe conversations that elicit
vision, you're in conversationsthat manage stuff.
(15:12):
And that's what happens forcreators and founders is they
become imprisoned by their verycreation.
At one point it was magical, itwas a creation, but now it's's
a thing, and when somethingturns into a thing, you gotta
manage it, you gotta fix it, yougotta deal with it, you've
gotta improve it.
Donna Eade (15:33):
You know, do your 10k a month, do your 15k a month
, you get you're chasing thecarrot yeah, it's so true and
it's so funny, because the nextthing I wanted to talk about is
this created life versus adefault life, and I almost feel
like that's the creative partfor me.
That's the created, that's thecreated life, and then we get
(15:53):
into the management, which I seeis like the default that we're
all kind of stuck in.
So can you talk to us about howwe can start to intentionally
design a business and a lifethat, even when we feel stuck
and overwhelmed, is more in thatcreated life than the default?
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (16:09):
It's the key question.
I mean because that's what I dowith my entrepreneurs that I
work with for the year longmastermind that I do called the
mastery program, because we'remastering performance, creation
and freedom.
So that's for entrepreneurs whowant to minimally double their
business but work less.
So it really is like freedom.
And how do you do that?
How do you?
And it is a design issue Mostpeople don't design what they're
(16:32):
doing.
They build, but not from adesign.
So I work with people to crafttheir vision, craft what is the
big game they're really out toaccomplish with that company,
let's just say with the company,but it could be with a
relationship, it could be withtheir wellbeing.
You know, it's whatever youwant to work on.
It's really not only limited tobusiness.
But then we do a year backwardsplan.
(16:54):
So we start a year out and wego okay, what do you want
January or April of whateveryear to look like?
Now we're going to go backwards.
Most people plan from hereforward and they get limited in
their thinking because they'rethinking from what they have,
what they have access to, whatthey currently are doing,
revenue wise, all that.
(17:15):
So I go no, no, no, we're goingto erase all that.
We're starting from nothing.
And if you could createanything, what would you create?
X month, a year from now?
So then we start there andstart to backwards plan.
Okay, so if you were going toand I'll just use a metric
because it's just easier to useIf you want to do a million
dollars in revenue by April of2026, let's say so, what will
(17:38):
have had to happen by Februaryof 2026 for a million to be a
done deal?
So they're not coming from the5,000 they have now or whatever
it is, they're coming from themillion.
Well, I will have had to do800,000 by February, definitely
for the million to be guaranteed.
Okay, good, so now we're goingto stand in February.
(17:58):
We've done $800,000.
Now let's go back to December1st.
What will have had to happenrevenue-wise?
And this is like a simple kindof math thing, right?
So you're just doing math atthis point and it doesn't have
to be equally distributedbetween the 12 months, because
you know it's just.
You get momentum or whateveryou're planning for, and then,
when you get close enough to thepresent, like about a month out
(18:19):
, you start creating an actionplan for what would you have to
do to have that milestone thatyou created for a month from now
be a done deal.
What are the actions that aregoing to have that happen?
And what happens when you dothe planning from the future
backwards is you start toilluminate what's missing either
in team members in your companyor in systems and structures
(18:43):
Like we don't even have abilling system in our.
You know like, ok, we betterbuild that structures.
Like we don't even have abilling system in our you know
like okay, we better build thatyou know.
So you start to see what youneed to implement and put in
place, or people that you needto hire or find or partner with
to be able to fulfill on whatyou're fulfilling on.
And then the big key is thatbecause people get messable with
executing their plan, they comeup with a plan and then they
(19:04):
don't do it.
That's one of the biggestthings that messes with people.
Yeah, totally, and especiallyif they don't have the plan with
someone else, because they'remore likely to do it if they
promise someone else than ifthey promise themselves.
So most of the work I do withpeople, you know, which falls
more into the mindset world, istheir relationship to their word
, because people have a weakrelationship to their word.
(19:27):
They justify, they excuse theirword.
They justify, they excusethemselves out, they reason,
they go.
Well, you know, I didn't reallysleep last night so I'm not
going to go to the gym today.
Maybe I'll go to my.
And you know, they just kind ofconvince themselves that
there's no impact of that, but Iget people to get.
There's a huge impact of thatbecause if you say X and do Y,
you just became less powerful.
So if you say X and do X andsay X and do X and say X and do
(19:50):
X, then your word starts to havesome weight in the universe.
And you know I have a tattoo.
It says abracadabra, whichsounds like magic, but what it
literally means in ancientAramaic is with my word, I
create.
Donna Eade (20:04):
Oh, wow.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (20:04):
So if your word is is weak, your
creation is going to be weak.
So I work with people on how tohave the best opportunity set
to fulfill what they're creating.
So they can say, double mybusiness in a year, and it
happens.
Or they could say, intimacy inmy marriage, and it happens,
because their word has weight.
It isn't what they give theirword to, it's that the word
(20:25):
itself is magic.
Donna Eade (20:29):
That is magic.
That is magic.
I completely see it when I lookat people around me, when I
look at myself, and I am so oneof those people.
If I've promised somebody else,I'm doing something.
I'm there and I'm doing it.
I literally have a weighttrainer.
I go to her house on a Mondaynight to do weights with her and
she asked me to do two othersessions a week without her and
(20:50):
because I'm going to see her onMonday, I do it.
But if it was just me, I knowmyself.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (20:55):
I wouldn't do it.
Donna Eade (20:56):
I'd make all those excuses, just like you said Well
, that's what people do.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (21:00):
And it's interesting because the
biggest thing I deal with myentrepreneurs in the second year
of the program is that they'vedeveloped now this ability and
this muscle with their word, buttheir teams don't have it.
So, here they are in this worldof performance, but if you're
working with people who are notin that game, what you're going
to get is a lot of explanationsand reasons and justifications
(21:22):
for why things aren't happening,and that's a different kind of
water to swim in.
Donna Eade (21:26):
It is, it is.
So let's talk about practicesand routines, because I think a
lot of the time when we'retalking about this stuff, it's
part of a practice.
You have to keep going and dosomething again and again and
again to embed it, and it ismore I.
I think habits are a funny onefor me because I feel like I can
(21:50):
do something, the the 21 timesor the the 60 times, however
many you want to say it takes todo it, and I will still do.
Default having peanut butter ontoast for my lunch because I
like it and it's easy.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (22:03):
It's just you know it takes.
I know my trainer's alwaysthink you're not eating enough
protein.
Dah, dah, dah dah, unless Idesign a system to deliver
protein to me.
I mean literally, unless Idesign the time to prep my meals
and then I have to put in mycalendar eat, because I'll
forget.
I love what I do.
I'm just caught up in thewhatever.
So I have to schedule myshowers and I have to schedule
(22:24):
my eating and I have to scheduleboiling six eggs because
otherwise they won't be there.
Donna Eade (22:29):
Yeah exactly that, exactly that.
So can you share with us apractice or a routine that helps
you stay grounded in whatmatters most to you?
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (22:38):
Well, the first thing, again starting
with vision, is when you wake upin the morning.
If you notice you don't wake upusually inspired and alive, and
mostly you wake up into thatdefault world of, oh, I didn't
get enough sleep, or oh, I haveso much to do today, or let me
just hit snooze for a little bit.
So the default world is alwaysthere, ready to suck you in,
(23:00):
right?
So one thing I find reallyuseful in the morning is to
create what I'm creating thatday, so to create a context for
the day.
So it could be maybe you'recreating the context of
happiness that day, or you'recreating the concept of peace of
mind, or whatever it is thatyou're creating.
I then come up with promisesthat will fulfill on it.
(23:22):
I have a whole.
I have like two books that I'vewritten about promises.
I have something called thepromise game, which is like a
five day game you can play.
It's free on my website and Ihave a daily practices to be on.
I have a lot of free stuff onthe website to get people muscle
, but promising is a verypowerful tool.
First of all, it's your word,right?
So if you're creating happiness, one promise could be I promise
(23:44):
to make three people laughtoday.
So now you have this kind ofthing.
That's there because youcreated it and it just kind of
guides you through the day.
It has you interactingdifferently with people.
You know, maybe at Starbucksyou're not just head down
ordering your latte, you'reinteracting with the person to
have them smile or laugh, and soit gives you a different
(24:05):
quality of the day.
So I find that's a good way tostart practicing creating and
see what it looks like when yousay something and then manifest
it as a function of your actions.
It's not like, you know, make avision board and then just hope
it's.
You know you have to takeaction to fulfill on it.
But it does give you differentactions.
If you create, you know if my,if my creation is, you know,
(24:28):
peace of mind for the day, Imight take three breaks and
meditate for five minutes that Inormally wouldn't do, or take a
walk by the water.
If you have the ability to dothat, that for me.
That really calms me and, youknow, gives me peace from an
external perspective.
So so those are some practicesthat people could start right
away from an externalperspective.
Donna Eade (24:47):
So so those are some practices that people could
start right away.
Yeah, yeah, I love that, andwater is one of mine, and
unfortunately I don't live nearthe sea.
It's about two hours away fromme, but that is my favorite
place.
We do have a lake nearby, butwhat I found is I'm always going
(25:09):
at the wrong time and the gnatsand the midges are out and I'm
just like that.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (25:10):
That is not happy for me.
I'm with you.
I'd rather watch a video ofwater than be by a lake with
gnats.
Donna Eade (25:14):
Okay absolutely, absolutely, yeah, oh dear.
But, yeah, water does calm metoo.
It's one of my favorites, um.
So, moving on, what advicecould you give to to women who
feel like their voice and theirmessage are being watered down
because they're worried aboutwhat others might think?
Because I think that's a bigone.
(25:36):
Now, majority of my listenersare women and I think one of the
things that I sort of promoteand talk about a lot is using
podcasting to amplify yourmessage and your voice.
Talk about a lot is usingpodcasting to amplify your
message and your voice, but Ithink a lot of the times, women
are generally you know, justfrom the gender gap pushed down
and like belittled and you knowyou're not important.
(25:57):
What you've got to say isn't asimportant as what I've got to
say, and things like that.
So how can we get past that inour own minds and speak our
truth?
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (26:07):
get past that in our own minds and
speak our truth.
Well, it's interesting becausethe majority of my clients are
women also.
It's about a 70-30 split.
You know, I do have maleclients and I find it happens
with men too.
It just doesn't seem asprevalent because they're not as
expressive about it.
But you know, women will talkabout it, but it is, men are
just as worried about whatpeople think.
(26:28):
Uh, surprisingly to some women.
Um, and it really is one ofthose uh, things that mess with
all people is looking good andavoiding looking bad, and that
also has to do with that wholeworld of reaction.
It's like you have so manyviews about yourself.
See, whatever it is that messeswith you is something that
(26:49):
you're not complete withyourself.
If you're complete withsomething, then it doesn't mess
with you, like if you don't haveany doubt about your own
intelligence.
If somebody calls you stupid,it doesn't bother you.
It's like somebody calling youan eggplant.
It's like what are you talkingabout?
I'm not an eggplant, I'm not.
Like, why would I even be upsetabout that?
It's like you know, okay, youknow whatever you say.
(27:09):
So you're not hookable by thosethings that are complete for
you.
So the work that I would dowith people that have that kind
of trigger is to get themcomplete about not only who they
are, what they're capable of,but sort of the views they've
constructed over the years aboutthemselves.
(27:31):
Now it might have beenoriginated by somebody saying to
them oh, you're so, you know,you're so sweet.
And now they're trapped inbeing sweet and they can't be
assertive because they're inthis prison called being sweet
and that's not necessarily a badthing, but it is a prison
nonetheless.
So I break people out of prison.
I mean that's basicallynecessarily a bad thing, but it
is a prison nonetheless.
So I break people out of prison.
I mean I, that's basically whatI do.
I break people out of theprison of their limiting beliefs
(27:53):
, of their views, of the thingsthat they think are true that
aren't, and I can share from myown life.
When I was four, I loved singing.
I was like all about singing.
And when I was five I asked myfather how come he stopped
painting?
Because he used to paint allthe time.
And I noticed he stoppedpainting.
He goes.
Well, you can't do your art asyour career.
Now, he wasn't trying to likekill my dream, but he just
(28:15):
that's how it was for him.
You can't do your art as yourcareer, so he's in advertising,
Right?
So I go.
Ok, five years old, I go.
I see you can't do your art asyour career.
I got it, no problem.
Pivot, I'm not going to be asinger, I'll be a lawyer or I'll
be a business person.
And I lived my life like it wastrue that you couldn't do your
art as your career.
So when you think something'strue, you're going to find
(28:37):
evidence for it everywhere,right?
So then flash forward.
I was in my very early 20s.
I was in a transformativeworkshop myself and
transformative workshop myself,and I had this insight like what
if that's not true?
What if that is something Imade up and believed in the
infinite wisdom of five and thenended up proving over and over
again, with whatever evidence Igathered.
(28:57):
And it loosened its grip on me.
I'm telling you, Donna, withinthree months I had a record deal
.
After getting rid of thatlimiting belief, I was able to
fulfill my lifetime dream that Inever thought would happen
within three months, and thenthat record went number one.
We had the number one record inthe country, knocked Whitney
Houston out of the number onespot with I will always love you
(29:18):
.
I mean, it was a total dreamcome true, and that's where I
became committed to empoweringother people to live their
dreams, because I was like, ifthat can happen in three months
for me by disappearing onecrappy limiting belief, if I
could do this for people andunleash them, set them free to
fulfill their dreams, that's alife worth living.
Donna Eade (29:36):
Oh it sounds amazing .
It sounds amazing and what anachievement to not quickly use.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (29:43):
No, but my point is all these people
that you're talking about thatfeel stifled or put down or
whatever it's like, yeah, butwhat's putting them down or
what's keeping them down aremostly limiting beliefs, views,
shoulds, good, bad, right, wrong, it's not.
It's not right to speak out ina meeting, or it's not good or
(30:04):
it's not acceptable.
All that stuff is language.
It's not good or it's notacceptable.
All that stuff is language.
It's not reality, you know.
So how do you craft arelationship to reality through
context?
That's going to give you power.
That's going to give you theability to say what you need to
say to impact who you want toimpact.
So and I also have becauseimposter syndrome is a big thing
for people, you know, which iskind of what you're pointing to
(30:25):
I have a whole imposter syndromeprocess that I give people
again free on my website so thatif people are dealing with that
, just do this process and itwill bust that up for you.
Donna Eade (30:36):
Brilliant, brilliant .
Well, make sure that thewebsite is linked in the show
notes for sure, guys, because itsounds like that is a website
you spend ages on just goingthrough all the free stuff.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (30:46):
I know it's true.
It's like you know, you havedozens of free things before you
ever have to spend a dollar towork with me.
And you know, not everybody hasa dollar, so it's not a problem
.
I mean, I want people to havethese tools and there's other
ways to work with me, obviouslyon a deeper, more intimate level
.
But gift from Joss J-O-S-S isthe part of the site, that's all
the freebies.
(31:06):
Gift from Joss period,brilliant, fantastic.
Donna Eade (31:12):
So we'll make sure that's linked below.
So let's finish on, before wejump into all my fun questions,
my little quick fire round.
Let's finish on how beingunmessable with has impacted the
way you run your business andshow up in your life, because I
think we've obviously seen whereit started with that, that
career that you didn't think youcould have, but now, on a
(31:36):
day-to-day basis, here and now,how does it?
How does it show up for you?
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (31:42):
Well, it shows up every day.
So I mean, I'll just take alifelong dream of mine which was
to live in Paris and I alwayssaid, oh, someday I'm just take
a lifelong dream of mine whichwas to live in Paris and I
always said, oh, someday I'mgoing to move to Paris, someday,
like wherever.
Someday was it was like maybewhen I retire blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah.
And I worked for 30 years for aseminar company called Landmark
, which I highly recommend, ifnobody's done the Landmark Forum
.
It's transformative.
And I was one of the 20 peopleor so that led that program
(32:06):
around the world and I helpeddevelop the advanced course and
I was accountable for theadvanced course and trained the
leaders for the.
I mean, like it was my life forlike 30 years.
I really lived and ate andbreathed it, but I was working
70 to 80 hours a week, Right.
So when I uh was decided toleave because I was like you
know, it's time for a newchapter in my life, I don't know
(32:28):
what I'm going to do, but I'mgoing to stop working 80 hours a
week and I'm going to reallylook at okay, what do I want to
create with my family?
My daughter was coming homefrom at that time, rehab and I
wanted to be available for herand all of that.
My parents were getting older,so I gave my notice a year's
notice.
I gave my notice a year'snotice, I trained my replacement
and all of that and then Icompleted with honor and then I
(32:50):
took like a few months off and Iwas just kind of like, okay,
now, what?
Now, what am I going to do,Right, and what am I going to
create?
So I created a course, becausethat's what I do.
I design curriculum and I'mleading the course.
It's called the foundation forbeing unmessable with and as I'm
leading one of the sessions.
I'm leading one of the sessions.
(33:11):
I'm.
I'm telling people you havesomeday dreams.
It's not a real day, blah, blah, blah.
You know, like everything Isaid earlier.
And then I realized that I havea someday dream.
You know, like it was like a V8moment, I was like oh my God,
what a blind spot here.
I am, you, you, you.
And then I was like, oh my God,the fingers at me and I got off
the Zoom call and I said to myhusband okay, are we going to
really do this or are we justgoing to talk about it Like it's
(33:33):
a someday thing for the rest ofour lives?
He goes no, we should do it.
I go, okay, when let's just seta date, I don't care if it's
five years from now, whatever.
We set a date for a longweekend, like a week later, and
we met these people who had anapartment there that they were
(33:53):
moving out of.
So we ended up getting thatlease and we've been, you know,
basically spending almost halfthe year there every year now
since then.
And that took a lot.
Because, you know, first of all, of course, I have doubts and I
go into the world of reactionlike, oh my God, what are we
doing?
And you know the kids are stillkind of young, you know they're
over 18.
But, like you know my parentsand all the reasons and I would
(34:18):
call my husband.
I said, ok, we got to talkabout these reasons.
He's like, yeah, ok, we cantalk about the reasons, but what
are we creating?
It really was, and my parentswere like, go, what are you
waiting for us to die?
Or something like go, you know.
And it was kind of the truth ina weird way, right.
So we've been able to keepfulfilling that now.
So I went from working like 80hours a week to maybe 30 to 40
(34:41):
hours a week, right.
But in that first year ofbusiness, I was like, okay, this
and I quadrupled my income Imean more, you know.
And I was like, okay, how do Iget this down?
Like, if I'm going to createwhat I want, how many hours do I
really want to work a week?
And I was like I want to worklike 10 to 15 hours a week and I
want to spend the rest of thetime, you know, being doing
going to the gym or yoga, orbeing with my family or
(35:03):
traveling or whatever.
You know I was creating allthis stuff, right.
So I designed the next year likewhat that would have to look
like, and it ended upreformatting everything I was
doing, and I now work between 10and 15 hours a week and have
(35:31):
exponentially increased myincome at the so, really like
even more than five X, becauseI'm working less, yeah, so who
knows, 10 X.
I haven't done the math, but Isaid, okay, this everything I
was doing to give people accessto fulfilling their dreams in
the entertainment business.
Now I was like, okay, that's it.
You know, I'm going to giveentrepreneurs the chance to have
freedom and fulfillment andease and not have to work harder
, but work smarter and create anenvironment of performance.
(35:53):
And my life is so easy.
It's a joke.
It's a joke.
I mean I wake up, I have topinch myself.
I'm like I have half the timein New York, then I go to Paris,
then I, you know, have myclients.
I mean I love the people that Iwork with.
They're fulfilling on dreamsthey've had forever and that's
like I get to have that result.
That all these people areproducing the results that
(36:15):
they've always wanted writingbooks and, you know,
unbelievable, it's just magicyeah, yeah, I can imagine being
being the person that's behindthat, watching that.
Donna Eade (36:25):
It's like, um, when I see people that I've taught to
do a podcast and they're goingout, and anytime I see them put
it on social media, I'm like,yeah, you go girl exactly like
second hand joy it's a.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (36:38):
It's a perfect example, because you
know, like I still get messablewith, I just get out of it
quickly because I wanted tostart a podcast for a long time
but I didn't know anything.
I didn't even know what, uh,whatever, the, the rss, what.
I didn't know anything.
I was like I have no idea, Ididn't.
I never listened to a podcast,I didn't know what it was and I
I finally, oh, I have all thesereasons not to do it.
(36:59):
And then I said, what am Idoing?
I just got to practice what Iteach.
So I just set a date and thenbackwards planned it and when I
launched my podcast, um, in Juneof last year, I had 40 episodes
banked.
I have the episodes bankedthrough the end of the year at
this point.
You know I have so manyepisodes and I just keep
recording them.
And we hit number 32 on theApple podcast charts in
education and self development.
(37:20):
A few months ago not on thecharts right now, but but we did
hit 32.
So I was like we're top 2% inthe world.
I was like how is this possible?
It's because I just fulfilledon what I designed, and that's
the point.
If you design it, you canfulfill on it.
If you don't design it bydefault, you're just going to
deal with what life is throwingat you?
Donna Eade (37:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
Oh, I love that so good, sogood.
So my next question is one thatI ask all of my guests and
because this podcast is calledMindset in Action, this is our
mindset one, but this is usuallyquite a difficult one for
people who work in the mindsetspace to answer, because they go
(38:03):
into teaching mode instead ofreflecting mode.
So I'm going to ask you to tryand step into reflecting mode.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (38:08):
Okay, you got it.
Donna Eade (38:09):
Answer what has been the biggest mindset block that
you've had to overcome?
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (38:16):
Well, I would say it's what I shared
with you about you can't do yourart as your career.
Like actually, thatdisappearing as a truth unlocked
everything in my life and itbecame like a new context for me
.
So I got to fulfill on my dreamas a child of being a singer.
(38:36):
But I also get to do my art asmy career.
Now my art is coaching, so Iget to fulfill on that and it's
just, it's overarching.
So that really had a hugeimpact and it's impacted even my
father, who was the one whosaid it when I was five.
He's 91 and he's a painter.
Now that's what he does.
We just built a studio for himand he's a painter.
(38:57):
Now that's what he does.
We just built a studio for himand he's painting daily and has
had shows and you know.
So it's a it's.
It bleeds over to other peopletoo.
Donna Eade (39:06):
I love that, I love that and and, like you said, art
is subjective, so it's one ofthose things that art, just like
the finger, it's, yeah, it'swhat you put on it.
So some people will saycoaching's not art, that's, it's
coaching.
You know it's not, but to me,anything that you are skilled at
, that like it absolutelythrills me to watch somebody in
(39:27):
their element doing their thing,because it is, it's beautiful
to watch, it's magic, and it iseven like the olympics right.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (39:33):
I mean you watch somebody who's an
athlete and it's like, or a youknow a musician or I mean it's
magical.
I mean I know that now I'mgonna out myself as a Barry
Manilow fan, but I went to seeBarry Manilow last week and to
me I could cry he's such amaster at what he does and he's
been doing for 50 years.
So, yeah, he is a master.
(39:53):
But that's why I call my workthe art of being unmessable with
.
It really is, it's my art.
Donna Eade (40:00):
Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
So we're going to move on to myquick fire round, which is
where we get to know just alittle bit of the inside, what
goes on inside Joss's head.
So what is a podcast thatyou're loving right now?
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (40:14):
Well, I really like Tyrone Jackson's
Trading Stocks Made Easy.
I love stocks and I actuallywork with Tyrone as a coach.
He coaches me in stock tradingand I love his podcast, so
that's one Brilliant.
Donna Eade (40:29):
And what is the book that has made the biggest
impact on your life so far?
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (40:35):
Well, when I was young I would say it
was the Great Gatsby.
I really loved that book.
It was my favorite book, fromthe imagery and all that.
But I haven't read the GreatGatsby in like 35 years, so I'd
say recently in terms of abusiness book is Dan Martell's
Buy Back your Time.
That has had a huge impact onme and I've taken a lot of what
he does and adapted it for whatI do.
So I'm a big Dan Martell fan.
(40:57):
Not everything he says, becausehe's a little bro kind of
marketing kind of you know, butthe thinking behind it I love.
Donna Eade (41:05):
Brilliant, okay.
Well, guys, I will make sureboth those books are linked in
my guest's bookshelf as normal,so do go and check those out.
And then, what's your go-tosnack if you're in a hurry,
hard-boiled eggs.
As in a hurry, hard boiled eggsas long as you've boiled them,
yes exactly as long as youscheduled that boil I boiled
(41:25):
last night.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (41:26):
I boiled six.
You know I do six at a time,but honestly I should do 12.
That's how much I eat them,yeah, yeah.
Donna Eade (41:32):
I, my other half, came home with 12 eggs from the
grocery store.
Um, yes, at the weekend and Ilooked at them and I was like
what, what?
What's going on?
Why have you only bought 20?
Said they didn't have 15.
I said so why didn't you buy 24?
Like I literally have two eggsand two egg whites for breakfast
every morning, this isn't gonnalast me a week eggs are the
(41:52):
best, even though they're soexpensive.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (41:54):
Now I have to say and everybody's
talking about the egg pricesthere's still a deal, you know,
if you think about it.
And they're my favorite.
I love eggs.
Donna Eade (42:01):
Brilliant.
And then what is your ultimateme time thing to do?
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (42:07):
Walking by the water.
I would say I really love it inNew York City.
I live right by the East Riverso I can walk out my door and
walk down the water, and I'mmoving to New Jersey in a month,
which I can't believe.
I'm saying that.
So if anybody from Jersey islistening, I'm no offense, but I
(42:28):
never thought I would.
But it really made sensebecause I want an environment
that really nurtures me, andthis building has a pool and a
sauna and a steam and it's righton the water.
So again, and my parents when Ispend time in the Hamptons,
because I live there too.
So again, and my parents when Ispend time in the Hamptons,
because I live there too, rightby the water.
And then in Paris I'm right bythe Seine, and so I think water
is sort of the like you, my, mygo-to.
Donna Eade (42:46):
I love that.
I love that.
Well, I I went to Paris lastyear.
It was on my vision board and Imade it happen and I absolutely
love the place, and so nexttime you're, next time you're
over uh, give me a bell.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (42:59):
I'll get on the.
Donna Eade (43:00):
Eurostar.
Josselyne Herman-Saccio (43:01):
I'll be there next week, so you know
you let me know the next timeyou want to come, because I I'm
there a lot.
I love it, it's, it's it.
I breathe better there.
Yeah, I have since I was 16.
Donna Eade (43:13):
I want to give a big , big thank you to Jocelyn for
coming on the podcast.
We had some technicaldifficulties on my end with the
internet connection and Jocelynwas an absolute trooper.
We didn't actually get to doour outro because of that.
So I wanted to just say thankyou so much, jocelyn, for coming
on the show.
I think it was a reallypowerful conversation, really
(43:35):
interesting.
I think it was a reallypowerful conversation, really
interesting, and I loved hearingabout your life and your dreams
and how you've made them cometrue and how you have used your
system of being unmessable withthroughout your life to bring
those visions to fruition andfor sharing with us.
So, as Jocelyn said, she has awebsite.
(43:57):
It's beunmessablewithcom.
You can head over there.
There is a freebies tab whereall of those things that she was
talking about today will beavailable for you.
You can also join her onInstagram.
She is instagramcom.
Forward slash beunmessablewith.
You can find her there.
She is also on LinkedIn,jocelyn Herman Satchio.
(44:20):
You can find her there as well,and I will have all of those
links in the show notes for you.
So head over to DonnaEcomforward slash blog and check out
this episode 314 to find all ofthe show notes for this episode
.
Thanks again, jocelyn, forcoming on the show.
Thank you guys for listeningand I'll see you next week.
(44:41):
Bye for now.
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