June 16, 2025 • 29 mins
Podcasting continues to evolve with shorter episodes and more visual content, yet its core power remains in creating intimate connections through voice. Despite having 4.2 million podcasts worldwide, only 17% remain active, creating plenty of opportunity for business owners to establish their presence in this powerful medium.
• Podcast episodes are trending shorter with 30 minutes ideal for solo shows and 40-60 minutes for interviews
• Visual podcasting is growing, but traditional audio podcasts still maintain distinct advantages
• AI tools now make podcast production significantly faster and easier
• The psychological impact of voice creates uniquely intimate connections with listeners
• Micro-audiences and niche storytelling can be more valuable than pursuing mass appeal
• Business podcasts face less competition than popular genres like true crime or news
• Starting a podcast requires minimal equipment—just a decent microphone and clarity of purpose
• Podcast content remains evergreen, continuing to attract new listeners for years
Get clarity on starting your own podcast by joining the Podcast Clarity Workshop on June 30th at 1pm UK time. Visit donnaeade.com/PCworkshop to secure your spot for just £33.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Donna Eade (00:00):
You're listening to the Mindset in Action podcast,
the place to be to grow andstreamline your business.
I'm your host, donna Eade.
Let's jump into the show.
Hello, hello, welcome back tothe podcast, everybody, I am so
(00:20):
excited to have you here todaybecause we are talking about
podcasting.
So I have just finished up mysix week live sessions and it
feels like it's been foreversince I've spoken to you guys
because, obviously, other thanthe little intros to those
episodes, I haven't reallyrecorded in a while.
So I'm really excited to bringyou this episode.
(00:42):
And this episode is going to beabout whether it's still worth
it to start a podcast in 2025,because now the live episodes
are out of the way, I'm movinginto a new season and I thought
it was a good opportunity tosort of reflect now we're in the
middle of the year what doespodcasting look like now and is
(01:06):
it still worth it?
Obviously, I started five yearsago, so a lot has changed in
that time technology-wise andalso in the world-wise, if you
think about where we were fiveyears ago.
So there's a lot, a lot to gothrough.
We're going to be talkingtrends, timeless truths and why
podcasting in 2025 still holdsincredible power for small
(01:30):
business owners Plus, I shall besharing behind the scenes.
Look at one of the platformsthat helps me keep everything
running smoothly behind the mic.
So let's dive in.
So the first thing I want totalk about is what's changed in
podcasting.
So over the years, there hasbeen a bit of a shift in terms
(01:53):
of the way people are listeningto podcasts.
So podcasts have been gettingshorter, which doesn't surprise
me with the attention span thateverybody's got.
Everybody's scrolling on TikTokand used to like spending three
seconds looking at somethingand scrolling on to the next
thing, so our attention spansare getting shorter.
(02:15):
However, there is a caveat withthat, because podcasting is
something that people do.
Usually when they're doingother things, people scroll.
When they're doing other things, people scroll.
When they're doing nothing else.
You know, they're sitting onthe sofa, the telly might be on
and they're scrolling theirphones.
They're not focused on thetelly, they're focused on the
scroll.
So they're focused on thosequick snaps of information that
(02:39):
they're getting from TikTok andInstagram and YouTube shorts and
things like that.
So they're focused on that,whereas a podcast people tend to
do it, as I've said before,when they're in the car, driving
somewhere, when they're goingto the gym.
So the length of a podcast isstill going to be longer than
those short form pieces ofcontent.
However, it is a shorterversion that is going to get
(03:04):
listened to more quickly than alonger version.
So what is long, what is short?
So I have always suggested thata solo episode should be around
30 minutes long and that aguest episode should be no
longer than 40 to 50 minutes.
Push it to an hour, butshouldn't be much longer than
(03:26):
that.
Now, if you look at the likes ofStephen Bartlett in the Diary
of the CEO, you would bethinking well, donna, you know
that's nothing.
He can talk to people for threehours, but you have to look at
where he is and what he's doing.
And if you go back to theoriginals, you will find that
they were a little bit shorterand that he's increased the
(03:47):
length as time's gone on.
But he is a visual podcast.
I first got introduced to Diaryof a CEO through YouTube it
wasn't on a podcast app.
So he has that visual element.
And again, he is interviewingreally famous people that are
(04:08):
famous famous in the UK popularspace versus someone like Simon
(04:32):
Cowell, who has got a globalaudience.
So these people are the pullthat gets people to stop and
listen for longer.
The great thing about YouTube isyou can speed it up, and I
often do speed it up, but withlong podcasts like that, it is
likely that I am never listeningto it in one sitting.
I'm going to come back to it ifI come back to it, so it's got
(04:56):
to really attracted me andhooked me in to make me come
back.
Whereas if it's on your phoneand it's an audio version, it
usually sits there as your lastlistened to piece.
It's just ready to press playwhen you next plug in and tune
in.
So you're much more likely toget a complete listen from a
shorter episode that doesn't gotoo far over that hour mark.
(05:21):
80% of people who listen to apodcast are likely to listen to
the entire episode, but thatdoesn't mean that they listen to
it in all one sitting.
So I would say, given theattention spans, given what
we're sort of facing in theworld today, with that, keeping
it to those times that I said,half an hour for a solo show, an
hour for a guest show, is goingto get people's or keep
(05:44):
people's attention.
Should I say so?
If somebody's going to the gym,they're likely to spend either
half hour or an hour at the gym.
They're going to be looking fora podcast that fills that space
.
If people are commuting to work, that could be half hour to an
hour commute they're going toget your podcast listened to
either on the way to work or onthe way and on the way back, so
you're going to get your podcastlistened to either on the way
(06:05):
to work or on the way and on theway back, so you're going to
get that episode listened toquickly.
So keeping to those timeframesjust allows for those sort of
traditional things that peopledo when they're listening to
podcasts to happen and yourepisode to fill that space for
them.
So we are moving into the eraof more visual podcasts.
(06:26):
I was actually having aconversation with somebody the
other day about this, because Ihave a real bugbear about
podcasts being on YouTube interms of the video podcasts like
Diary of a CEO and Mel RobbinsShow, etc.
Because podcasting is an audioexperience.
A podcast is an audioexperience and therefore, when
(06:51):
you put the visual element to it, to me it's no longer a podcast
, it's a filmed interview.
It's just like listening tothis Morning or the News, or you
know, this morning or the newsor you know something along
those lines, where it isn't youknow a loose women, it's an
interview, or it's somebody justdoing a talk show, you know
(07:18):
doing their own talking headvideo.
It's not a podcast in the senseof what a podcast means to me.
So I have a bit of an issuewith that, and one of the things
that I've always sort ofchampioned when it comes to
podcasting is the fact that youdon't have to be on camera if
you don't want to, because it'san audio platform.
So there is an aspect of itthat imagery can help to get
(07:40):
people over to listen to yourpodcast.
However, when I was speaking tothis person, she was saying what
do you think about videopodcasts?
And I told her my thoughts, asI've just shared them with you.
But I said my thing is is Iwill often see the clips of a
podcast on YouTube, shorts andthings like that where they are
(08:01):
showing you the interviewee andthe interviewer talking, and
then when you click on it, itgoes to an audio only version or
it.
You know you have to go andlisten to it on the podcasting
app or something, it'll have alink in the description to go to
the podcast app and then youdon't get to see it.
But I've been attracted in bythe visual aspect.
(08:23):
Now, if I'd have just heard itthen I would have been happy to
go and just listen to it.
But because I've seen thepeople, I am a visual learner,
so I actually really enjoywatching.
I've been a tele-addict mywhole entire life.
Nothing that I like better thanto sit down and watch TV.
Don't really watch TV muchanymore, but YouTube is my
(08:44):
favourite platform on the planet.
So I do watch a lot of YouTubebecause I like to see the body
language.
I like to see the interactionbetween the interviewer and the
guest and see how that happens.
So when they show a clip of thevideo but then the video is
actually nowhere to be seen inits entirety, I feel a bit
(09:07):
cheated.
So that, so you know, it reallydepends on your comfort level
and I still think that there isthe opportunity and the ability
for you to have a audio onlypodcast.
That's what I have.
I tried doing the YouTube thing.
I did it for three months.
It really didn't gain me muchtraction and I was just like it
(09:28):
was a waste of my time becauseI'm too much of a perfectionist.
Now, now that we have AIbecause we didn't have AI in the
way that we have it now, when Istarted doing those because
that was way back in 2021, 2022,maybe that I started to do the
video options and it just tookme too long because I would edit
(09:51):
the video separate to the audio, because the audio would be
clearer to edit on its own andthe video audio isn't as good.
So I would edit them separately, which meant I was just
doubling my work and my podcastaudio was getting you know more
than double the listens of myvideo episodes.
So you really have to kind ofweigh up the pros and cons with
(10:14):
that one for yourself and whatyou feel happy with.
I teach people audio only.
You can use things likeRiverside, which will record the
video for you, and then you'vegot things like repurpose IO,
which will disseminate that intosmaller video clips that you
can put on social, et cetera.
There's lots of AI options tohelp you to break that down and
(10:37):
make it impactful.
That's not going to take uploads of your time, and that
brings me on to the other thingthat has changed is the AI tools
.
So back when I startedpodcasting, there was no AI
facilities, you couldn't use AIto help you with your scripts.
You couldn't use AI to help youwith your show notes.
You couldn't use AI to edityour podcasts.
(10:57):
Now all of that has changed.
So that means that it actuallycan take a lot less time than it
used to take me to get anepisode from from idea to
published, which is fantastic.
And if you have a virtualassistant as well that can help
you implement some of that AItool resource, then you know
(11:21):
you're going to save even moretime tool resource, then you
know you're going to save evenmore time.
So those are, you know thechanges.
I think the AI tools is a greatchange.
That's happened.
Not so happy about the visualstuff myself, just because I
love it as an audio thing, andI'll come on to something a
little bit interesting about theaudio stuff later.
(11:42):
And then, yeah, shorterepisodes, so sticking to that 30
minutes to an hour.
The other thing that is on therise is the micro audience and
niche storytelling.
So some of the more populargenres of podcasting are sort of
the true crime podcasts, etcetera, and I'll cover some of
those later as well.
(12:03):
But if we are in business, itis really important to be
pulling on those stories and toreally make them interesting,
because that is what podcastlisteners are looking for.
They are looking for thestories and the micro audiences.
You know, when I started, mypodcast was aimed at wedding
professionals in the UK.
(12:23):
That was a hyper niche.
Only 400,000 people in theentirety of the world were ever
going to be interested inlistening to my podcast.
And because they were in the UKand it was 2020 and we were
only just learning whatpodcasting was, most of those
400,000 didn't even know what apodcast was, so I was really
(12:44):
working with a small audience.
But the thing is is it reallydepends on the purpose of your
podcast and what you want it todo for you as to whether that's
a problem or not.
Because if you are looking atit as a money making venture,
you know you want to go in there, you want to get sponsorships,
you want to get brand deals, youwant your podcast to be that
(13:05):
then business podcasts probablynot going to get you there and
your audience size is likely notto be as big as you need it to
be Now if it was in a differentgenre.
So if you've got a business,for example, the health and
wellness space is a huge genrein podcasting.
So if you've got a business,for example, the health and
wellness space is a huge genrein podcasting.
(13:25):
So if you are a health andwellness professional and you do
a health and wellness podcast,you've got that opportunity for
your podcast to have a reallybig audience.
But talking about microaudiences, in this instance, you
know micro audiences can bereally powerful because if you
can get a real loyallistenership, even if it's tiny,
(13:47):
you can really use thataudience well in terms of
generating leads and generatingincome for your business.
I'll never forget that AmyPorterfield once told us a story
about how there was a day, adark day in I don't know 2017.
I don't know what date it waswhere Facebook went blackout for
(14:11):
24 hours and everybody wasfreaking out because they were
all running their businessesthrough Facebook, had their
websites and stuff, but theywere really focused on Facebook
at the time and Amy happened tohave in her email system an
email that went out to a section, a small section of her
(14:32):
audience, offering themsomething that was 97 pounds or
something, and she madesomething like and I don't quote
me on the numbers because Ican't remember exactly, but it
was something like $97,000 or$17,000, whichever, it doesn't
really matter what the numberwas.
She made all that money on thatday and it was thousands and
(14:52):
thousands of dollars that shemade on that day when everybody
else made nothing because theycouldn't talk to their audience.
And that is the power of havinga strong podcast with a strong
call to action to get people onthe email list, which leads me
to say, guys, get on my emaillist.
If you go to any of my blogposts donnellycom, forward slash
(15:15):
blog get onto any of thosepages, you can sign up to my
email list.
You will get a weekly emailfrom me that will talk about the
podcast episode.
What's going on in my life?
All sorts of jazz goes on inthat podcast episode.
But I have got two bonusepisodes that are only going to
be available to my email listand they're going to be coming
out soon.
So if you want to get those,you need to be on it.
(15:37):
I'm going to talk about thosemore another time, but if you
want to be on my email list toget those bonus episodes and
believe me, they are so worthhaving then get on my email list
, go to my website and get onthere.
So having a strong podcast anda strong email list means that
you don't have to worry aboutthose things.
So a micro audience can bereally, really valuable.
(16:00):
So what hasn't changed inpodcasting?
Well, one of the things that Iabsolutely love about podcasting
is that human connectionthrough voice.
I have said it before, I willsay it again there is nothing
more powerful than a podcastlistener listening to your
podcast, because nine times outof ten they're listening with
their headphones in, and ifthey're listening with their
(16:21):
headphones in, and if they'relistening with their headphones
in, it means that you'rewhispering in their ear, which
means that you are just buildingthat know, like and trust.
It's really quite a vulnerablespace when you think about it.
I, as a podcast host, I've gotno idea who's listening to me.
I have got no idea if they'refriend or foe.
Yet I get quite vulnerable inthis space because I'm on my own
(16:43):
in my office talking to amicrophone, you know, so I can
be a little bit more open.
But there's a vulnerabilitythere because I don't know who's
listening.
Equally, the people who arelistening can't see me as I'm
talking, yet I'm talking veryclosely to their ears, you know.
So there is a vulnerabilitythere for them.
So it's an exchange ofvulnerability which helps you to
(17:06):
build that know, like and trustreally, really quickly.
So that is something that hasnot changed and won't ever
change.
Evergreen content your podcastis evergreen, so I still get
people downloading and listeningto episodes that I did four
years ago.
It's quite crazy, but it isreally really powerful, and this
(17:28):
is one of the things that Ithink we need to plug more to
our guests is how this is anevergreen piece of content that
they can use again and again andthat you know, without you even
promoting it, people arelistening to it years down the
line and finding them.
So it's really important thatthe links they give you are
links that are going to be setfor you know a good long time
(17:48):
and that they understand theimportance of actually marketing
the episode.
So evergreen content really,really powerful and really great
for you to be able to go toyour clients, to your listeners,
to anybody who comes up to youand asks you a question.
Oh, I've got a podcast episodeon that.
Let me send it to you and sendit over to them.
(18:10):
It's a great way of using thatcontent, Visibility and trust as
business tools.
So, as I said, it really doesamplify that trust factor and,
although not visually visible,amplifying your voice and your
message in this way, I think, isa stronger call to action than
(18:30):
when we are on social media,which is such a noisy, noisy
space.
So before we dive in to the nextpart, which is the myth busting
section, I wanted to take amoment to share a tool that has
been an absolute game changer inmy business, and that is the
platform FEA Create.
(18:50):
I've been using FEA Create forover three years now and,
honestly, I do not know how Iactually managed to run a
business beforehand, because Irun my entire business through
it my websites plural, I'll comeback to that my funnels, my
email marketing, my CRM, myinvoicing, my online programs
(19:12):
everything is there.
There is a blog function thatdonateecom forward slash blog is
the blog function.
There's e-commerce now involved.
You can have a shop on there.
There's a webinar system builtin and I haven't even tapped
into everything yet like becausethey keep adding new things.
So every time I think, oh yeah,I know what's on there.
(19:32):
I log in and it's like new tabnext to something that I didn't
know was there.
So I'm always discovering newthings that are helping me to
save time and save money.
So one of the things that Ireally love about it is the fact
that it is all in one place andI don't have to have multiple
subscriptions going out todifferent things.
(19:53):
Now, when I first started, andjust as I bought into FEA Create
, I was in a position where Icouldn't afford to upgrade my
business the way I wanted topages lead pages or click
funnels.
I couldn't afford that on topof my website.
I couldn't afford to plug moremoney into MailChimp to allow me
(20:18):
the extra automations that Iwanted.
I didn't have an invoicingsystem at all.
I was using Canva to produceinvoices and doing it all
manually.
You know, I didn't have any ofthat kind of automation in there
and I couldn't afford the toolsthat were going to allow me to
do it.
Fea Create came along andactually it costs a lot less
(20:40):
than all of those tools that youcould buy and it's all together
.
So when I log in, I only haveto log in once.
I'm not logging into multipleplatforms.
I'm not having to try and linkthis and link that to make them
work together.
It's all in that one platform.
It's nice and easy to navigate.
They have got such a greatsuite of tutorials that will
(21:02):
walk you through settingeverything up, but also they've
got great customer service.
So if you need them they'rethere kind of 24 seven almost, I
think.
You can just log into the chatand speak to somebody.
There's a Facebook group forsupport as well.
It is a really beautifulplatform to use and I absolutely
love it.
(21:22):
So as a podcast and mentor,having everything in that one
place is not only efficient, itis sanity saving.
So if you're building abusiness, then I highly
recommend you check it out.
I do have an affiliate link but, like I say, I've been using it
for three years and I would notpromote it if I didn't enjoy
(21:43):
using it, and I obviouslywouldn't still be using it if I
didn't enjoy using it.
So I will leave a link in theshow notes for you If you head
over there and you can grab it.
Or you can go to donnaecomforward slash F-E-A and that
will get you over there.
So on to the myth busting it'snot too late and it's not too
(22:05):
crowded.
I have got some stats for youthat I've pulled up here 4.2
million podcasts availableworldwide, but only 17% of them
are active and to be consideredactive that means that they are
being updated regularly and fromwhat I remember from before,
when I looked at this, it waslike regular was uploading at
(22:27):
least one episode in the last 12months.
So only 17% are active andpodcast is growing.
So although 17% of 4.2 millionis a lot, there are so many
different genres.
If you actually break it downinto what your genre is, then
(22:48):
you probably got a lot lesscompetition than you think.
So the most popular genres arenews, true crime, sport, health
and fitness, religion and faith.
So those are your harder togain traction in.
And I'm not saying it'simpossible at all.
I think it's totally possible.
In fact, nicola Tonsaga, whowas on the podcast six weeks ago
(23:13):
now, who was at my live event,she launched her podcast being
so Confident with my launchstrategy and she is in the
spiritual, religious,faith-based realm and she got
her podcast to like number 12 inthe Apple podcast charts for
that genre.
So it is not impossible tobreak into those genres.
(23:34):
However, business is a lesspopular genre, which means that
the difference is thelistenership.
So there's more peoplelistening to those podcasts,
which means actually there'smore listeners to go around,
whereas in the business nichethere's less people listening to
business podcasts, which meansyou are fighting a harder battle
(23:55):
in the business sense.
But remember what I said aboutmicro niches people looking at
those micro audiences ratherthan trying to appeal to
everybody.
So it's not too late and it'snot too crowded because, like I
say, lots of people startpodcasts but they don't
necessarily continue it.
So, although it's ever too lateand it's not too crowded,
because, like I say, lots ofpeople start podcasts but they
don't necessarily continue it.
So, although it's evergreen,and as long as they've got an
(24:18):
active podcast subscription hostor they're on a free platform,
it'll be there for always.
If they aren't updating itregularly, if they're not active
, then people are going to dropoff and go and find something
that is.
So there's that you don't needfancy gear to start.
A lot of people think that theyneed the fancy microphones and
(24:39):
the boom arms and you know, thelights and the switch boxes and
all of this jazz.
Well, I'm just sat here with amicrophone that is in a stand on
my desk and there's nothingelse.
It plugs straight into mylaptop and away I go.
So it's much easier to getstarted than you think and you
can be guided through it.
So it's not something that youhave to step out and do alone.
(25:02):
There is help out there.
So your first steps into thispodcasting world I would love
for you, if you are interestedin starting a podcast, if
somebody has turned around andsaid, oh, you should have a
podcast, or it's just beensomething that's been niggling
at you.
It's been on that to-do listfor way too long.
I would love for you to comeand join me in my podcast
(25:25):
clarity workshop.
It's called your Voice, yourPlatform, and in there I'm going
to take you through what I dowith my one-to-one clients,
which is to really dig into yourbusiness, your goals.
What a podcast would do inrelation to that?
How would it fit in?
How would you fit it intime-wise, what would it look
(25:48):
like?
How would you put it up?
Talk to you about the questionsthat you have about podcasting
Now, usually with my one-to-oneclients.
This is £250 for 90 minutes,but I'm going to take a small
group, no more than 20 people,through the same exact workbook
and we're going to do it for a90 minute session.
(26:10):
You're going to get to ask mequestions, it's going to be
interactive on Zoom and it'sjust £33.
So if that sounds likesomething you would like to do,
I would love to invite you tojoin me on June, the 30th, at
1pm, uk time, for this podcastclarity workshop.
(26:30):
As I say, spots are limited, soif you head to donnaecom
forward, slash PC workshop, allone word.
There will be a link in theshow notes for you.
You can go over there, you canbook on and I will see you on
the 30th.
So that is it for this week,guys.
(26:50):
I hope you found thatinteresting.
I think the podcast that'salways interesting to read.
It's really.
It's amazing to see how manypodcasts are out there yet so
many people have what we calldead podcasts.
It's actually crazy.
So if you can be one of thosepeople that sticks with it, then
(27:24):
that can have a real bigdifference.
A series that is just likethese pillars that you talk
about in your business, that arereally hyper-focused and you
want to just really do a talk oneach of those things, then a
series might be all that youneed.
So, although you would beconsidered one of these dead
podcasts in terms of youruploads, you could be sharing
(27:46):
those podcasts all the time tothe people who need to hear what
you've got to say about it.
If somebody asks you, forinstance, if you are a health
person, you're in the health andwellness space and somebody
comes up to you and asks youabout these GPL1 injections or
something, you can have a wholeepisode on that that dives into
(28:09):
your thoughts and your feelingsabout it, your advice to people
in general.
You could send them there.
Go.
Go and have a listen to thispodcast episode.
If you've got any questions,come back to me and let's chat
and that's how you could use it.
So it's constantly therefeeding your clients, warming
them up to you before they startworking with you.
(28:32):
So that is it from me this week,guys.
Thanks so much for listening.
I hope you come and join me onthe podcast Clarity Workshop and
do check out FEA Create.
Honestly, it's an amazingplatform.
I've absolutely loved having itand being on there and creating
, and it's so much fun to usethat I could actually get lost
(28:52):
in there doing that and notdoing my actual job.
But that's a talk for anotherday.
I will see you in the next one,guys.
Bye for now.
You're listening to the Mindset in Action podcast,
the place to be to grow andstreamline your business.
I'm your host, donna Eade.
Let's jump into the show.
Hello, hello, welcome back tothe podcast, everybody, I am so
(00:20):
excited to have you here todaybecause we are talking about
podcasting.
So I have just finished up mysix week live sessions and it
feels like it's been foreversince I've spoken to you guys
because, obviously, other thanthe little intros to those
episodes, I haven't reallyrecorded in a while.
So I'm really excited to bringyou this episode.
(00:42):
And this episode is going to beabout whether it's still worth
it to start a podcast in 2025,because now the live episodes
are out of the way, I'm movinginto a new season and I thought
it was a good opportunity tosort of reflect now we're in the
middle of the year what doespodcasting look like now and is
(01:06):
it still worth it?
Obviously, I started five yearsago, so a lot has changed in
that time technology-wise andalso in the world-wise, if you
think about where we were fiveyears ago.
So there's a lot, a lot to gothrough.
We're going to be talkingtrends, timeless truths and why
podcasting in 2025 still holdsincredible power for small
(01:30):
business owners Plus, I shall besharing behind the scenes.
Look at one of the platformsthat helps me keep everything
running smoothly behind the mic.
So let's dive in.
So the first thing I want totalk about is what's changed in
podcasting.
So over the years, there hasbeen a bit of a shift in terms
(01:53):
of the way people are listeningto podcasts.
So podcasts have been gettingshorter, which doesn't surprise
me with the attention span thateverybody's got.
Everybody's scrolling on TikTokand used to like spending three
seconds looking at somethingand scrolling on to the next
thing, so our attention spansare getting shorter.
(02:15):
However, there is a caveat withthat, because podcasting is
something that people do.
Usually when they're doingother things, people scroll.
When they're doing other things, people scroll.
When they're doing nothing else.
You know, they're sitting onthe sofa, the telly might be on
and they're scrolling theirphones.
They're not focused on thetelly, they're focused on the
scroll.
So they're focused on thosequick snaps of information that
(02:39):
they're getting from TikTok andInstagram and YouTube shorts and
things like that.
So they're focused on that,whereas a podcast people tend to
do it, as I've said before,when they're in the car, driving
somewhere, when they're goingto the gym.
So the length of a podcast isstill going to be longer than
those short form pieces ofcontent.
However, it is a shorterversion that is going to get
(03:04):
listened to more quickly than alonger version.
So what is long, what is short?
So I have always suggested thata solo episode should be around
30 minutes long and that aguest episode should be no
longer than 40 to 50 minutes.
Push it to an hour, butshouldn't be much longer than
(03:26):
that.
Now, if you look at the likes ofStephen Bartlett in the Diary
of the CEO, you would bethinking well, donna, you know
that's nothing.
He can talk to people for threehours, but you have to look at
where he is and what he's doing.
And if you go back to theoriginals, you will find that
they were a little bit shorterand that he's increased the
(03:47):
length as time's gone on.
But he is a visual podcast.
I first got introduced to Diaryof a CEO through YouTube it
wasn't on a podcast app.
So he has that visual element.
And again, he is interviewingreally famous people that are
(04:08):
famous famous in the UK popularspace versus someone like Simon
(04:32):
Cowell, who has got a globalaudience.
So these people are the pullthat gets people to stop and
listen for longer.
The great thing about YouTube isyou can speed it up, and I
often do speed it up, but withlong podcasts like that, it is
likely that I am never listeningto it in one sitting.
I'm going to come back to it ifI come back to it, so it's got
(04:56):
to really attracted me andhooked me in to make me come
back.
Whereas if it's on your phoneand it's an audio version, it
usually sits there as your lastlistened to piece.
It's just ready to press playwhen you next plug in and tune
in.
So you're much more likely toget a complete listen from a
shorter episode that doesn't gotoo far over that hour mark.
(05:21):
80% of people who listen to apodcast are likely to listen to
the entire episode, but thatdoesn't mean that they listen to
it in all one sitting.
So I would say, given theattention spans, given what
we're sort of facing in theworld today, with that, keeping
it to those times that I said,half an hour for a solo show, an
hour for a guest show, is goingto get people's or keep
(05:44):
people's attention.
Should I say so?
If somebody's going to the gym,they're likely to spend either
half hour or an hour at the gym.
They're going to be looking fora podcast that fills that space
.
If people are commuting to work, that could be half hour to an
hour commute they're going toget your podcast listened to
either on the way to work or onthe way and on the way back, so
you're going to get your podcastlistened to either on the way
(06:05):
to work or on the way and on theway back, so you're going to
get that episode listened toquickly.
So keeping to those timeframesjust allows for those sort of
traditional things that peopledo when they're listening to
podcasts to happen and yourepisode to fill that space for
them.
So we are moving into the eraof more visual podcasts.
(06:26):
I was actually having aconversation with somebody the
other day about this, because Ihave a real bugbear about
podcasts being on YouTube interms of the video podcasts like
Diary of a CEO and Mel RobbinsShow, etc.
Because podcasting is an audioexperience.
A podcast is an audioexperience and therefore, when
(06:51):
you put the visual element to it, to me it's no longer a podcast
, it's a filmed interview.
It's just like listening tothis Morning or the News, or you
know, this morning or the newsor you know something along
those lines, where it isn't youknow a loose women, it's an
interview, or it's somebody justdoing a talk show, you know
(07:18):
doing their own talking headvideo.
It's not a podcast in the senseof what a podcast means to me.
So I have a bit of an issuewith that, and one of the things
that I've always sort ofchampioned when it comes to
podcasting is the fact that youdon't have to be on camera if
you don't want to, because it'san audio platform.
So there is an aspect of itthat imagery can help to get
(07:40):
people over to listen to yourpodcast.
However, when I was speaking tothis person, she was saying what
do you think about videopodcasts?
And I told her my thoughts, asI've just shared them with you.
But I said my thing is is Iwill often see the clips of a
podcast on YouTube, shorts andthings like that where they are
(08:01):
showing you the interviewee andthe interviewer talking, and
then when you click on it, itgoes to an audio only version or
it.
You know you have to go andlisten to it on the podcasting
app or something, it'll have alink in the description to go to
the podcast app and then youdon't get to see it.
But I've been attracted in bythe visual aspect.
(08:23):
Now, if I'd have just heard itthen I would have been happy to
go and just listen to it.
But because I've seen thepeople, I am a visual learner,
so I actually really enjoywatching.
I've been a tele-addict mywhole entire life.
Nothing that I like better thanto sit down and watch TV.
Don't really watch TV muchanymore, but YouTube is my
(08:44):
favourite platform on the planet.
So I do watch a lot of YouTubebecause I like to see the body
language.
I like to see the interactionbetween the interviewer and the
guest and see how that happens.
So when they show a clip of thevideo but then the video is
actually nowhere to be seen inits entirety, I feel a bit
(09:07):
cheated.
So that, so you know, it reallydepends on your comfort level
and I still think that there isthe opportunity and the ability
for you to have a audio onlypodcast.
That's what I have.
I tried doing the YouTube thing.
I did it for three months.
It really didn't gain me muchtraction and I was just like it
(09:28):
was a waste of my time becauseI'm too much of a perfectionist.
Now, now that we have AIbecause we didn't have AI in the
way that we have it now, when Istarted doing those because
that was way back in 2021, 2022,maybe that I started to do the
video options and it just tookme too long because I would edit
(09:51):
the video separate to the audio, because the audio would be
clearer to edit on its own andthe video audio isn't as good.
So I would edit them separately, which meant I was just
doubling my work and my podcastaudio was getting you know more
than double the listens of myvideo episodes.
So you really have to kind ofweigh up the pros and cons with
(10:14):
that one for yourself and whatyou feel happy with.
I teach people audio only.
You can use things likeRiverside, which will record the
video for you, and then you'vegot things like repurpose IO,
which will disseminate that intosmaller video clips that you
can put on social, et cetera.
There's lots of AI options tohelp you to break that down and
(10:37):
make it impactful.
That's not going to take uploads of your time, and that
brings me on to the other thingthat has changed is the AI tools
.
So back when I startedpodcasting, there was no AI
facilities, you couldn't use AIto help you with your scripts.
You couldn't use AI to help youwith your show notes.
You couldn't use AI to edityour podcasts.
(10:57):
Now all of that has changed.
So that means that it actuallycan take a lot less time than it
used to take me to get anepisode from from idea to
published, which is fantastic.
And if you have a virtualassistant as well that can help
you implement some of that AItool resource, then you know
(11:21):
you're going to save even moretime tool resource, then you
know you're going to save evenmore time.
So those are, you know thechanges.
I think the AI tools is a greatchange.
That's happened.
Not so happy about the visualstuff myself, just because I
love it as an audio thing, andI'll come on to something a
little bit interesting about theaudio stuff later.
(11:42):
And then, yeah, shorterepisodes, so sticking to that 30
minutes to an hour.
The other thing that is on therise is the micro audience and
niche storytelling.
So some of the more populargenres of podcasting are sort of
the true crime podcasts, etcetera, and I'll cover some of
those later as well.
(12:03):
But if we are in business, itis really important to be
pulling on those stories and toreally make them interesting,
because that is what podcastlisteners are looking for.
They are looking for thestories and the micro audiences.
You know, when I started, mypodcast was aimed at wedding
professionals in the UK.
(12:23):
That was a hyper niche.
Only 400,000 people in theentirety of the world were ever
going to be interested inlistening to my podcast.
And because they were in the UKand it was 2020 and we were
only just learning whatpodcasting was, most of those
400,000 didn't even know what apodcast was, so I was really
(12:44):
working with a small audience.
But the thing is is it reallydepends on the purpose of your
podcast and what you want it todo for you as to whether that's
a problem or not.
Because if you are looking atit as a money making venture,
you know you want to go in there, you want to get sponsorships,
you want to get brand deals, youwant your podcast to be that
(13:05):
then business podcasts probablynot going to get you there and
your audience size is likely notto be as big as you need it to
be Now if it was in a differentgenre.
So if you've got a business,for example, the health and
wellness space is a huge genrein podcasting.
So if you've got a business,for example, the health and
wellness space is a huge genrein podcasting.
(13:25):
So if you are a health andwellness professional and you do
a health and wellness podcast,you've got that opportunity for
your podcast to have a reallybig audience.
But talking about microaudiences, in this instance, you
know micro audiences can bereally powerful because if you
can get a real loyallistenership, even if it's tiny,
(13:47):
you can really use thataudience well in terms of
generating leads and generatingincome for your business.
I'll never forget that AmyPorterfield once told us a story
about how there was a day, adark day in I don't know 2017.
I don't know what date it waswhere Facebook went blackout for
(14:11):
24 hours and everybody wasfreaking out because they were
all running their businessesthrough Facebook, had their
websites and stuff, but theywere really focused on Facebook
at the time and Amy happened tohave in her email system an
email that went out to a section, a small section of her
(14:32):
audience, offering themsomething that was 97 pounds or
something, and she madesomething like and I don't quote
me on the numbers because Ican't remember exactly, but it
was something like $97,000 or$17,000, whichever, it doesn't
really matter what the numberwas.
She made all that money on thatday and it was thousands and
(14:52):
thousands of dollars that shemade on that day when everybody
else made nothing because theycouldn't talk to their audience.
And that is the power of havinga strong podcast with a strong
call to action to get people onthe email list, which leads me
to say, guys, get on my emaillist.
If you go to any of my blogposts donnellycom, forward slash
(15:15):
blog get onto any of thosepages, you can sign up to my
email list.
You will get a weekly emailfrom me that will talk about the
podcast episode.
What's going on in my life?
All sorts of jazz goes on inthat podcast episode.
But I have got two bonusepisodes that are only going to
be available to my email listand they're going to be coming
out soon.
So if you want to get those,you need to be on it.
(15:37):
I'm going to talk about thosemore another time, but if you
want to be on my email list toget those bonus episodes and
believe me, they are so worthhaving then get on my email list
, go to my website and get onthere.
So having a strong podcast anda strong email list means that
you don't have to worry aboutthose things.
So a micro audience can bereally, really valuable.
(16:00):
So what hasn't changed inpodcasting?
Well, one of the things that Iabsolutely love about podcasting
is that human connectionthrough voice.
I have said it before, I willsay it again there is nothing
more powerful than a podcastlistener listening to your
podcast, because nine times outof ten they're listening with
their headphones in, and ifthey're listening with their
(16:21):
headphones in, and if they'relistening with their headphones
in, it means that you'rewhispering in their ear, which
means that you are just buildingthat know, like and trust.
It's really quite a vulnerablespace when you think about it.
I, as a podcast host, I've gotno idea who's listening to me.
I have got no idea if they'refriend or foe.
Yet I get quite vulnerable inthis space because I'm on my own
(16:43):
in my office talking to amicrophone, you know, so I can
be a little bit more open.
But there's a vulnerabilitythere because I don't know who's
listening.
Equally, the people who arelistening can't see me as I'm
talking, yet I'm talking veryclosely to their ears, you know.
So there is a vulnerabilitythere for them.
So it's an exchange ofvulnerability which helps you to
(17:06):
build that know, like and trustreally, really quickly.
So that is something that hasnot changed and won't ever
change.
Evergreen content your podcastis evergreen, so I still get
people downloading and listeningto episodes that I did four
years ago.
It's quite crazy, but it isreally really powerful, and this
(17:28):
is one of the things that Ithink we need to plug more to
our guests is how this is anevergreen piece of content that
they can use again and again andthat you know, without you even
promoting it, people arelistening to it years down the
line and finding them.
So it's really important thatthe links they give you are
links that are going to be setfor you know a good long time
(17:48):
and that they understand theimportance of actually marketing
the episode.
So evergreen content really,really powerful and really great
for you to be able to go toyour clients, to your listeners,
to anybody who comes up to youand asks you a question.
Oh, I've got a podcast episodeon that.
Let me send it to you and sendit over to them.
(18:10):
It's a great way of using thatcontent, Visibility and trust as
business tools.
So, as I said, it really doesamplify that trust factor and,
although not visually visible,amplifying your voice and your
message in this way, I think, isa stronger call to action than
(18:30):
when we are on social media,which is such a noisy, noisy
space.
So before we dive in to the nextpart, which is the myth busting
section, I wanted to take amoment to share a tool that has
been an absolute game changer inmy business, and that is the
platform FEA Create.
(18:50):
I've been using FEA Create forover three years now and,
honestly, I do not know how Iactually managed to run a
business beforehand, because Irun my entire business through
it my websites plural, I'll comeback to that my funnels, my
email marketing, my CRM, myinvoicing, my online programs
(19:12):
everything is there.
There is a blog function thatdonateecom forward slash blog is
the blog function.
There's e-commerce now involved.
You can have a shop on there.
There's a webinar system builtin and I haven't even tapped
into everything yet like becausethey keep adding new things.
So every time I think, oh yeah,I know what's on there.
(19:32):
I log in and it's like new tabnext to something that I didn't
know was there.
So I'm always discovering newthings that are helping me to
save time and save money.
So one of the things that Ireally love about it is the fact
that it is all in one place andI don't have to have multiple
subscriptions going out todifferent things.
(19:53):
Now, when I first started, andjust as I bought into FEA Create
, I was in a position where Icouldn't afford to upgrade my
business the way I wanted topages lead pages or click
funnels.
I couldn't afford that on topof my website.
I couldn't afford to plug moremoney into MailChimp to allow me
(20:18):
the extra automations that Iwanted.
I didn't have an invoicingsystem at all.
I was using Canva to produceinvoices and doing it all
manually.
You know, I didn't have any ofthat kind of automation in there
and I couldn't afford the toolsthat were going to allow me to
do it.
Fea Create came along andactually it costs a lot less
(20:40):
than all of those tools that youcould buy and it's all together
.
So when I log in, I only haveto log in once.
I'm not logging into multipleplatforms.
I'm not having to try and linkthis and link that to make them
work together.
It's all in that one platform.
It's nice and easy to navigate.
They have got such a greatsuite of tutorials that will
(21:02):
walk you through settingeverything up, but also they've
got great customer service.
So if you need them they'rethere kind of 24 seven almost, I
think.
You can just log into the chatand speak to somebody.
There's a Facebook group forsupport as well.
It is a really beautifulplatform to use and I absolutely
love it.
(21:22):
So as a podcast and mentor,having everything in that one
place is not only efficient, itis sanity saving.
So if you're building abusiness, then I highly
recommend you check it out.
I do have an affiliate link but, like I say, I've been using it
for three years and I would notpromote it if I didn't enjoy
(21:43):
using it, and I obviouslywouldn't still be using it if I
didn't enjoy using it.
So I will leave a link in theshow notes for you If you head
over there and you can grab it.
Or you can go to donnaecomforward slash F-E-A and that
will get you over there.
So on to the myth busting it'snot too late and it's not too
(22:05):
crowded.
I have got some stats for youthat I've pulled up here 4.2
million podcasts availableworldwide, but only 17% of them
are active and to be consideredactive that means that they are
being updated regularly and fromwhat I remember from before,
when I looked at this, it waslike regular was uploading at
(22:27):
least one episode in the last 12months.
So only 17% are active andpodcast is growing.
So although 17% of 4.2 millionis a lot, there are so many
different genres.
If you actually break it downinto what your genre is, then
(22:48):
you probably got a lot lesscompetition than you think.
So the most popular genres arenews, true crime, sport, health
and fitness, religion and faith.
So those are your harder togain traction in.
And I'm not saying it'simpossible at all.
I think it's totally possible.
In fact, nicola Tonsaga, whowas on the podcast six weeks ago
(23:13):
now, who was at my live event,she launched her podcast being
so Confident with my launchstrategy and she is in the
spiritual, religious,faith-based realm and she got
her podcast to like number 12 inthe Apple podcast charts for
that genre.
So it is not impossible tobreak into those genres.
(23:34):
However, business is a lesspopular genre, which means that
the difference is thelistenership.
So there's more peoplelistening to those podcasts,
which means actually there'smore listeners to go around,
whereas in the business nichethere's less people listening to
business podcasts, which meansyou are fighting a harder battle
(23:55):
in the business sense.
But remember what I said aboutmicro niches people looking at
those micro audiences ratherthan trying to appeal to
everybody.
So it's not too late and it'snot too crowded because, like I
say, lots of people startpodcasts but they don't
necessarily continue it.
So, although it's ever too lateand it's not too crowded,
because, like I say, lots ofpeople start podcasts but they
don't necessarily continue it.
So, although it's evergreen,and as long as they've got an
(24:18):
active podcast subscription hostor they're on a free platform,
it'll be there for always.
If they aren't updating itregularly, if they're not active
, then people are going to dropoff and go and find something
that is.
So there's that you don't needfancy gear to start.
A lot of people think that theyneed the fancy microphones and
(24:39):
the boom arms and you know, thelights and the switch boxes and
all of this jazz.
Well, I'm just sat here with amicrophone that is in a stand on
my desk and there's nothingelse.
It plugs straight into mylaptop and away I go.
So it's much easier to getstarted than you think and you
can be guided through it.
So it's not something that youhave to step out and do alone.
(25:02):
There is help out there.
So your first steps into thispodcasting world I would love
for you, if you are interestedin starting a podcast, if
somebody has turned around andsaid, oh, you should have a
podcast, or it's just beensomething that's been niggling
at you.
It's been on that to-do listfor way too long.
I would love for you to comeand join me in my podcast
(25:25):
clarity workshop.
It's called your Voice, yourPlatform, and in there I'm going
to take you through what I dowith my one-to-one clients,
which is to really dig into yourbusiness, your goals.
What a podcast would do inrelation to that?
How would it fit in?
How would you fit it intime-wise, what would it look
(25:48):
like?
How would you put it up?
Talk to you about the questionsthat you have about podcasting
Now, usually with my one-to-oneclients.
This is £250 for 90 minutes,but I'm going to take a small
group, no more than 20 people,through the same exact workbook
and we're going to do it for a90 minute session.
(26:10):
You're going to get to ask mequestions, it's going to be
interactive on Zoom and it'sjust £33.
So if that sounds likesomething you would like to do,
I would love to invite you tojoin me on June, the 30th, at
1pm, uk time, for this podcastclarity workshop.
(26:30):
As I say, spots are limited, soif you head to donnaecom
forward, slash PC workshop, allone word.
There will be a link in theshow notes for you.
You can go over there, you canbook on and I will see you on
the 30th.
So that is it for this week,guys.
(26:50):
I hope you found thatinteresting.
I think the podcast that'salways interesting to read.
It's really.
It's amazing to see how manypodcasts are out there yet so
many people have what we calldead podcasts.
It's actually crazy.
So if you can be one of thosepeople that sticks with it, then
(27:24):
that can have a real bigdifference.
A series that is just likethese pillars that you talk
about in your business, that arereally hyper-focused and you
want to just really do a talk oneach of those things, then a
series might be all that youneed.
So, although you would beconsidered one of these dead
podcasts in terms of youruploads, you could be sharing
(27:46):
those podcasts all the time tothe people who need to hear what
you've got to say about it.
If somebody asks you, forinstance, if you are a health
person, you're in the health andwellness space and somebody
comes up to you and asks youabout these GPL1 injections or
something, you can have a wholeepisode on that that dives into
(28:09):
your thoughts and your feelingsabout it, your advice to people
in general.
You could send them there.
Go.
Go and have a listen to thispodcast episode.
If you've got any questions,come back to me and let's chat
and that's how you could use it.
So it's constantly therefeeding your clients, warming
them up to you before they startworking with you.
(28:32):
So that is it from me this week,guys.
Thanks so much for listening.
I hope you come and join me onthe podcast Clarity Workshop and
do check out FEA Create.
Honestly, it's an amazingplatform.
I've absolutely loved having itand being on there and creating
, and it's so much fun to usethat I could actually get lost
(28:52):
in there doing that and notdoing my actual job.
But that's a talk for anotherday.
I will see you in the next one,guys.
Bye for now.
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