July 28, 2025 • 54 mins
Have you ever noticed how success often comes packaged with unwelcome companions like anxiety, burnout, and that persistent feeling of never being enough? In this enlightening episode, I sit down with mindset coach Oli Cook to unpack how entrepreneurs can achieve real success without these debilitating side effects.
Oli brings a unique perspective as both a skilled coach and someone who's personally battled lifelong anxiety. He shares his powerful "Rapid Root Level Shifts" method that helps dissolve the subconscious fears and inner blocks preventing entrepreneurs from scaling their businesses while maintaining their wellbeing. What makes Oli's approach so refreshing is his focus on "adjusting the inner dials" rather than pushing through with sheer willpower or hustle.
We dive deep into the problematic nature of hustle culture and how the entrepreneurial world often sets unrealistic expectations that leave business owners feeling perpetually behind. Oli offers a profound reframe: success isn't something you chase but a state of mind you can cultivate right now, even while pursuing ambitious goals. This shift alone can transform your entrepreneurial journey from one of constant striving to one of strategic growth and genuine fulfillment.
The conversation takes a practical turn as Oli shares specific techniques for managing fear (by staying "one step ahead with your mind"), tackling overwhelm (by identifying the single most important task), and celebrating wins (to break the "never enough" cycle). These aren't just theories, they're battle-tested approaches that have helped countless entrepreneurs transform their relationship with their business.
Whether you're struggling with scaling anxiety, decision paralysis, or the weight of entrepreneurial pressure, this episode offers both validation and actionable solutions. Connect with Oli at olicookecoaching.com or on Instagram @olicooke.coaching to continue your journey toward success without the side effects.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Donna Eade (00:00):
You're listening to the Mindset in Action podcast,
the place to be to grow andstreamline your business.
I'm your host, donna Eade.
Let's jump into the show.
Oh, welcome back to the podcast, everybody.
I'm so glad to have you heretoday, and I have a guest with
(00:23):
me today.
His name is Oliver Cook.
Welcome to the podcast, ollie.
Oliver Cooke (00:27):
Hi Donna, Thanks so much for having me.
It's great to be here.
Donna Eade (00:31):
I am excited for this conversation.
Success without the sideeffects Sounds amazing, although
I think we're going to diveinto a little bit of what those
side effects might be, because Ithink that could be different
for different people.
But before we dive into all ofthat goodness, why don't you
tell my audience a little bitabout who you are and what it is
that you do?
Oliver Cooke (00:51):
Yeah, so I'm a mindset and performance coach
for driven entrepreneurs whowant success without side
effects ultimately.
So they are looking to scaleand grow their like, their
business, but also theirfulfillment.
That's a value that theydefinitely have too.
(01:11):
I'm the creator of the rapidroot level shifts method, which
is what I use to dissolve thesubconscious fears, inner blocks
, limitations to doing that.
Scaling and what I mean byscaling in the context that I
use with my clients is kind of,if you have perhaps full
(01:35):
one-on-ones and you're lookingto do more leveraged one-on-one
offers or groups, digitalproducts or perhaps you're a
solo entrepreneur working byyourself and you're looking to
expand into having a small team.
Or you have a small team andyou're looking to kind of grow
that, but you're coming upagainst some kind of fears,
(01:57):
perhaps limiting beliefs ormindset obstacles to that.
I am a bit of a wanderer.
In the last like 10 years I'velived.
I lived for a number of yearsin Vietnam.
I'm from the UK.
I've also been living inMauritius for the last couple of
years, but I'm in back rightnow and my partner's South
(02:19):
African.
We've been together like sevenyears and I intend to kind of
move there soon.
And uh, yeah, the last thing Iguess I'd say that's significant
is I've had a.
I'm a former lifelong anxietysufferer, panic attack sufferer,
and I really get how painful itcan be when you've got, like,
(02:41):
the external accomplishments,the external success, but it
doesn't match how you feelinternally.
And so one of the things that Ihelp my clients with is sort of
optimising the mindset, gettingthose messages down to the root
as well, so that they sort offeel as successful as often
other people think they look.
Donna Eade (03:02):
Yeah, I love that.
I think that is something thata lot of us um sort of suffer
with.
Um, and we had a lady on thepodcast a few weeks back, my
friend Nicola Tonsargo, and wewere talking about imposter
syndrome.
Um, it was one of my livesessions.
That happened at my event and,yeah, that thing that you can
see from the outside, oh, lookat the success this person's got
(03:24):
, yet internally they'resuffering with this.
Oh, my gosh, I, I'm, who am Ito do this?
And and who's gonna?
What are people thinking whenthey look at me doing this and
and things like that?
So I think that's a big topic,um, that always comes up and
it's great to sort of see thatyou're coming from a place of
having experienced this yourselfso you can really tap into what
(03:49):
people are feeling.
I think it's always theeducation side of coaching is
really, really valuable and Ihighly you know I love a
certificate, so I like it whenpeople have done the work.
But when you've actually had todo the work yourself and go
through those steps yourself,you've got an hard to put
yourself into those shoes andunderstand the types of feelings
(04:27):
that people can be feelingcomes to their business, when it
comes to their life and thingslike that.
So really interesting to sortof have a little glimpse into
your story there.
And I have to touch on yourSouth African connection there,
because my very good friend,claire Prothero, will be
listening to this podcast atsome point and she is my friend
(04:49):
from South Africa.
She's my accountability buddy.
We've been friends for overfour years now, so I would be
remiss if I didn't ask what areaof South Africa is your
girlfriend from?
yeah, she's from Cape Town ohlovely, that's where Claire is,
oh amazing yeah so yeah.
So when you move over, let meknow and I'll put you in touch
and you could go out for aone-to-one yeah, thank you very
(05:11):
much.
Yeah, I'm like to make theconnections thank you yeah, it's
, it's beautiful.
I'm really lucky that Claireoften shares with me.
When she's out and about andwe're having our one-to-ones, uh
, she will take me to places andshow me like I've seen tabletop
mountain.
I don't know that I'll ever getto see it in person, but I have
seen it through a phone in realtime.
(05:31):
So, um, that was quite cool.
Wow, um, okay.
So on to the topic of the day.
You're talking about successwithout side effects, and I
think the first thing we have todo is talk about what those
side effects can look like.
So tell us, what kind of sideeffects do you mean when you're
talking about doing it withoutthem?
Oliver Cooke (05:54):
Yeah.
So I guess the thing toprobably like preface this with
is that, of course, there aremany different things that are
really genuinely tough when itcomes to like building a
business and life right, lifehappens and all the challenges
that come there.
The way I look at things iskind of as a way of thinking
(06:17):
rather than what is true.
So there are people muchsmarter than me who disagree
about what true is.
So I'm more interested inwhat's useful for my own
thinking, for my clients, andwhen I'm referring to side
effects, it's like the pressure,stress, overworking,
overthinking, even things likeguilt, anxiety, fear and the
(06:41):
sort of never enoughness thatcan often be the felt experience
as an entrepreneur and those.
What I'm looking to do isbasically dial down the
experience of thoseunderstanding that essentially,
it's not so much the actualcircumstances that we're in
they're going to keep presentingchallenges but if not, everyone
(07:03):
is experiencing it like me.
So I'm experiencing it this wayand that person's experiencing
it that way, even though it'sthe same thing, they look a lot
calmer or they look a lot more.
You know how does that happen,and so then what I'm interested
in doing is is basicallyadjusting the inner dials so
that the experience of thosethings are much more different,
like more strategic, clear, cal,calmer, so that that's what I'm
(07:25):
referring to when I'm when I'mtalking about side effects.
It's it's it's not that all ofa sudden, you don't do anything
that doesn't feel amazing inyour business, right, it's, it's
that even doing those reallyedgy and challenging things and
and unknown and and things thatperhaps, uh, bring up a lot of
fear, it's actually just gettingthe nervous system to a place
(07:46):
where it's much better able todo them and often, you know,
actually changing the experienceentirely when it comes to how
it's felt.
Donna Eade (07:57):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's the thing is.
It's those dials.
That imagery that you just gavethere of dials is really sort
of impactful to me as a visualperson which is so funny that I
do a podcast when I'm a visualperson.
But you know, we move thosedials.
(08:18):
It's not about them alwaysbeing to the left in the happy
place, it's being able tomoderate them and understand
them, I think, because you knowthey're.
We've always got to do inbusiness things that we don't
want to do.
Um, until we're at a pointwhere we can outsource them or
something, there's always goingto be things that we don't want
to do.
So many people don't want to dotheir taxes, you know, but it's
(08:41):
a necessary evil of doingbusiness, so we've got to do it.
So you're going to be goinginto that with some fear, some
trepidation, some like anxietyand things like that, but it's
knowing that this is thesituation, knowing why it's
happening and being able tochange the view a little bit so
(09:02):
that we're not sitting in thathigh sort of cortisol level
whilst we're doing it.
So I think that's a reallyinteresting way to look at it.
We spoke just before we hitrecord and I was talking about
that culture of hustle whichjust seems to be so prevalent in
the entrepreneurial space thatpeople are like, oh, you've got
to hustle, you've got to hustle,you've got to hustle, you've
(09:23):
got to hustle, you've got tohustle.
And then now we seem to beseeing a bit of a turn to that
sort of hustle culture.
But a lot of it's coming fromthese huge entrepreneurs that
did all that hustling.
And you know, if you've beenaround in the entrepreneurial
space for any length of time,you've likely seen it.
You know, I've been around inthe space for the last sort of
10 years or so.
(09:44):
I've seen Amy Porterfield fromepisode 41 to episode 700 and
whatever it was that she endedthe online marketing made easy
podcast before she changed it toher own show.
I've seen the hustle that shewent through.
I've seen other entrepreneursfrom near the beginning of their
journeys and what they wentthrough, and now they all seem
(10:05):
to be talking about.
You know, oh, you don't have todo it the way I did it.
You know, I wish I'd have donethis soon.
I wish I'd have gone to a fourday week, I wish I had hired out
sooner.
I wish I had done this and youcan do it too, and I feel like
they're not quite in theposition to give us that advice,
because they didn't do it thatway and it's easy to say, oh
(10:25):
yeah, I can hire out now thatyou've got multi-millions of
pounds.
Um, not everybody has thatsituation.
So what's your kind of thoughtson, on this turn of hustle
culture of the?
You know the do it the easy way.
Where do you kind of fall onthat spectrum?
What are your thoughts?
Oliver Cooke (10:41):
yeah, that's so interesting and there's kind of
the two ends of the kind of likethe extremes and yeah, I think
it's what I'm looking to do formy clients all the time is
actually get accurateexpectations.
I think so much of what causesa lot of emotional turmoil and
kind of mental is thinking, oh,things should be different to
(11:02):
how they are, based on how longI've been doing this and how
long I've been doing this andhow long I've been doing that,
and the expectations are kind oflike haven't been adjusted and
so the thinking, you know, Ishould be, I should be at my
destination by now, becausesomeone told me it only takes
five minutes to get there, where, in actual fact, I'm kind of
going in and I'm like, well,actually it takes 30 minutes,
you know, so you're right ontrack.
(11:24):
You know, well, actually ittakes 30 minutes, you know, so
you're right on track, you know,and and what that can do
immediately is be like, oh, okay, so I'm not, you mean, I'm not
behind.
Actually that's just likehaving more accurate
expectations.
So I think definitely thatthere is a place for really
digging in and doing the thingsthat really move things forward
and, and I also think there aresort of programs, kind of
(11:45):
identities, if you like, that weperhaps have running at an
unconscious level, that thenyou're sort of shifting to more
of an entrepreneurial mindset.
(12:07):
There were certain things thatgot you to do really well as an
employee that don't work so wellas an entrepreneur, right, and
so working really long hours onsomething might have impressed
someone or it might have know,got a lot of work done.
But then if you're, if you'refinding that as an entrepreneur,
you you're working so hard andlong hours on something that you
(12:31):
haven't realized that whatyou're doing doesn't actually
make sense to be doing, then itcan be sort of getting in the
way and that hustle is kind oflike moving you forward in one
direction, but without thequestioning of it.
Does it actually make sense tobe going in this direction?
Is that towards where I want toend up, or am I just moving
forward for the sake of feelinglike I'm taking action and being
(12:51):
busy?
Donna Eade (12:54):
Yeah, that's so true and I love that.
I love that you said thatpeople about people sort of seen
as a five minute journey whenactually it's a 30 minute
journey, and I think that'ssomething that has been really
prevalent in a lot of the biggerentrepreneurs that sort of have
the big budgets to do all theadverts and be in all the places
(13:17):
.
It's kind of the message youhear from them is buy my
programme and in 10 weeks, whenyou finished it, you're going to
have X, y, z and they'reshowing you all of these
testimonials of people that havehad, you know, 100,000 pound
launches or you know they'vedone a 10k month in their first
(13:38):
month out, etc.
Etc.
And it's like, and that's notit for everybody, and I think
that it's not false advertisingbecause those people I'm sure
did do what they say they'vedone.
But it's the exception to therule, not the rule.
In my opinion, I think, like therule is somewhere much, much
(13:59):
lower down in the success totempole and we're not getting to
see that.
So we go into that programmethinking, great, at the end of
this I'm going to do a launchand I'm going to get what these
amazing entrepreneurs have got,and then, when we don't, we feel
like we failed and then wemight give up rather than
(14:20):
realising, like you said, thatwe were told it was going to be
a five-minute journey andactually no, no, for most people
it's a 30 minute journeybecause you've got to take a few
wrong turns before you get tothe destination right, right,
yeah, absolutely yeah.
Oliver Cooke (14:34):
And I think often with that.
Then what I notice, uh, youknow my own mind doing at times
and with my clients, it's likecherry picking certain things.
It's like, well, I haven't gotthat bit and I haven't got that
bit.
And what I say to that, whichis usually useful, is because I
think often the the comparisonthing happens and then what I
realize is it's just taking oneaspect and cherry picking that
(14:57):
and being like, oh, but I don'thave that bit that they've got.
I really want that.
And it's almost like fixatingon that, like the launch where
they made this much money orwhatever, or they did it in this
way.
And I do a kind of thoughtexperiment.
So I'm like you know, you can'tcherry pick one thing, because
it you know, if you were to havethat, you would have to trade
off all of the other experiences.
(15:17):
So in order to have thatparticular launch that they had,
you would also have to havetheir entire uh business.
You know their family, their uhlife experiences, their
memories, and you would tradeoff yours.
So you'd lose all of your lifeexperiences.
You lose all of your memories,all of your family, um, your
(15:38):
business.
Do you still want it.
You know, and I think sort ofpresenting it in that way it
makes it much harder to compareand much easier to see.
Ah, okay, so I can't justcherry pick one bit, I have to
have all or nothing.
I think I choose nothing andI'll just keep going on my own
particular path oh, that's,that's a really good visual
actually.
Donna Eade (15:58):
Yeah, that, that's so true.
Wow, that's a powerful one.
Oh my goodness, yeah, thatthat's.
That's highlighted some thingsfor me, for sure might be
journaling on that a little bitlater.
Um so, can we truly besuccessful without being on the
(16:20):
brink of burnout, sort of everysix months?
I feel like a lot of peopletalk about burnout and I
actually listened to somethingyesterday where they they asked
the person what, what is youropinion on burnout?
And she said burnout isn'tfailure.
It's your body telling you thatyou need to readjust your
(16:44):
priorities, which I really likedthat kind of analogy of it,
like it's not failure.
It's your body telling you youneed to reevaluate your
priorities.
And I think I can see the truthin that.
And a lot of entrepreneurs goand go and go and they're trying
to be successful, and they doit to the detriment of their
(17:06):
health, they do it to thedetriment of their nutrition,
they do it to the detriment oftheir family time and they keep
going, keep going untilsomething gives and they have to
stop.
And then they feel like they'refailure and then they're like,
oh, I can't do this.
And they go through that wholeconversation of like why am I
doing?
I should just go and get a job,this isn't working, blah, blah,
(17:28):
blah.
And then something will happenthat makes them think, you know,
they'll remember that they'recompletely unemployable and
nobody's going to hire them.
So, like no, I've got to makethis work.
And they get back on the trainand they start again.
Oliver Cooke (17:56):
So is there a way that we can kind of maybe lessen
that, so that it's not notgetting to that full burnout
stage where we're at the pointof collapse but we're actually
sort of, um, it's.
It's a very topical thing, youknow, it's something that comes
up a lot, and one thing thattends to happen is without even
really being consciously awareof it, outside of conscious
awareness, usually, once aparticular thing has been
achieved, the goalposts move,the horizon moves, but before
(18:20):
you know they've even realized,and so it's kind of like well,
um, that wasn't even registeredas as like the end point or that
.
You know there was no stoppingthere, it just continued,
continued, continued.
So I think one of the thingsthat can make a big difference
is is and it might seem seemlike little, but actually it's
(18:41):
quite significant in terms ofwhat it can cause for for for
your experience is how youactually define success.
And if I think about how Iwould have defined success, like
five years ago, or how, how, um, I think it's very common to
define success it's like well,you know, I want to have a lot
of money making a big impact,really doing good in the world,
(19:02):
and they're all kind of quiteexternal things and what they
sort of place it out there.
They place it out there, sothere's kind of like, you know,
this gap that needs to be filled, this chasing that happens and
you see it everywhere, right, soit's so normal.
I like to, I like to sort offlip things around a bit so that
actually success andfulfillment is something that I
(19:26):
believe you can be 100% in rightnow and also more ambitious
than you've ever been.
So I think of it as highperformance and high fulfillment
and adjusting the way you seesuccess.
I would define it personallyand it's just my personal frame,
(19:47):
is a state of mind, and I know,maybe that sounds a little bit
corny, but if you think about it, there are people who are
incredibly successful, haveachieved, ticked every single
box that you can think of, andwe'd ask them do you feel
successful?
And it's like not yet right,it's right, it's like okay, um,
(20:07):
so what is success then, ifthat's not it?
Because I was thinking that wasit, and so I think I like to
ask the kind of harder questionsand and really I I see it as
like, if you, if you canbasically cultivate a way of
thinking that you are successfulnow, today.
Why wouldn't you do that?
Like, is there actually adownside to that?
And some people might say, well, yeah, I need that hunger to
(20:32):
keep going right.
If I don't, if I never feelsatisfied, then I know I'll keep
going right.
But I actually I just don'tagree with that.
I think when you're feelingsatisfied and fulfilled, plus
you have big goals and ambitions, I think they work really well
together.
And when you feel satisfied bysomething, it makes you want to
do it again.
And so I think at the beginningof the day, you can even start
(20:54):
to be sort of looking for how amI already being successful
today?
You know what lets me know thatI've got this.
You know I've got this lunchwith a.
You know with a friend at thistime, I've got this meeting with
these clients.
You know this time, and you canstart training your mind to
actually look for the ways inwhich you're already being
successful.
(21:14):
And, of course, you know there'sstill plenty of room for and I
also would like to reallyachieve that thing and that
thing, but it's.
But today, how am I alreadybeing successful?
Because that also helps tointegrate the previous wins
you've had and the previousmilestones you've hit that often
get ignored, right, and, and Ithink when those get ignored
(21:37):
they don't get integrated andtherefore that that sort of
again feeds that kind of cycleof like never enough, because if
it's never acknowledged, ifit's never like, made high
definition until you see lookwhat you just achieved, right,
then why would it, why would thefuture examples and
achievements be any different?
So, yeah, I think that'schanging that like definition
(21:59):
and how you actually see success, I think can already help to
reshuffle those priorities,because then it's like well, no,
this is why I'm not going to bedoing this today, you know,
because that really doesn't fitin with how I see success.
Now, yeah, and yeah, that's howI would have answered that.
Donna Eade (22:21):
I really love that and I've got a couple of like
images that came to me while youwere talking there and that was
like the satisfaction andwanting more of that.
That always happens when I havea bar of chocolate.
I've never had a bar ofchocolate and gone.
You know what that sounds good.
I never need another bar ofchocolate in my life, so you
know there's a good analogy foryou.
Yeah, it also made me think ofsomething that my friend Claire
(22:50):
actually is always talking aboutcelebrating the small wins, and
one of the things I didrecently was I hosted an event
at the beginning of April tocelebrate five years of this
podcast, and it's because Inever celebrate the wins, it's
just not something that I'vedone.
But what I've just realised asyou were talking was, yes, I
(23:10):
celebrated that win, but I didit with something that meant I
had to do more and I was incharge of this event.
I organised it all.
I did all of the work for itand I couldn't be fully present
with my guests on the daybecause I was the person who's
organised, so I knew whereeverything was.
I needed to go here, there andeverywhere, and I was the person
who's organised, so I knewwhere everything was.
I needed to go here, there andeverywhere, and I was kind of
(23:32):
the key player at the frontthrough the whole event.
So I didn't get to be aspresent as I would have liked
that you would have maybe havehad if it was a party.
I've been describing it topeople as I was the bride and
the wedding planner on the day.
So everybody wanted to talk tome because it was my event but I
didn't have time to because Iwas organising it all and had to
(23:52):
move around.
So I kind of did myself alittle bit of a disservice there
in that respect of not beingable to really sit in it and
enjoy it and take that win, butalso the process of organising
an event.
Now my event financially made aloss and I'm going to do an
episode or I might have done anepisode by the time this one
(24:13):
comes out on sort of creating anin-person event and what that
actually looks like financiallyand the benefits, pros and cons
and things, because I think it'sinteresting.
I don't think a lot of peopletalk about it, so I'm going to
use myself as an example.
But it a loss and that was kindof.
I had the two focuses.
I had the focus of there wassome really good conversations
(24:33):
that happened in that room and Iknow that people got value out
of it and people have told methat they really enjoyed it and
they really found it the room, areally nice room to be in with
the people that were there.
So I know that there was apositive.
But on the other side of it.
I lost money, and so I havethose two things.
So I can't even take the win ofthe fact that the room was
(24:56):
really good and that peoplereally enjoyed it and that
everybody had a good time and Ienjoyed it and that the
afternoon tea was amazing,because there's this other thing
where I feel like I failedbecause it didn't turn a profit
and it's like you can't eventake the small wins because
there's something to knock,knock you down.
So it's like I haven't reallycelebrated the fact that.
(25:19):
My god, I did that.
I sort of sat there and Iorganized it all.
And you know, it doesn't matterthat it made a loss, because I
learned so much doing it.
Not that I'm ever planning ondoing another in-person event
again.
I did say it was a one-off andI plan it to be a one-off, but I
learned so much about methrough doing that.
(25:40):
So there is wins to be taken,even when it looks like on paper
that it was a loss.
There are wins to be taken andI think we often miss that
because we are so focused on theexternal successes, like you
said, and focusing on out thereand comparing ourselves and
(26:01):
looking at what other people aredoing and going well.
I didn't do it as well as X soI failed and not taking that so
really interesting and I foundthat fascinating.
Oliver Cooke (26:13):
Thank you so much yeah, no, and and actually that
you know that example I thinkit's really, you know, I think a
lot of people obviously willresonate so much with that,
where they've kind of tried tocelebrate and and kind of
celebrate those but somethingthat perhaps didn't work out so
well took the, took the mentalspace, and I think that's that
(26:33):
that does make sense, becauseit's kind of, as you've been
running your business for solong, that's kind of where the
focus has been the priority lensand so, yeah, I like you know,
I like how you said it wasactually, you know, I like you
know, I like how you said it wasactually, you know, taking the
time to do it.
(26:58):
That really in itself is thecelebration.
As you look back, it didn'tnecessarily need to feel that
good in order for it to be areally big win, because it was
something that previously hadn'tcome so naturally.
And I think by doing it don'tnecessarily expect it to feel
good, especially the first fewtimes, right when people start,
especially if you know it's likewith any other habit, you know,
with habits of thinking andhabits of feeling, the mind will
(27:18):
go down a particular neuralpathway that's well trodden,
like you know, that pathway inthe forest, and so as soon as
you start trying to go down adifferent one, for a little
while, it's likely to to defaultto the main one.
um plus we, you know, we, wehave this bias towards
negativity which is just like uh, uh, kept our ancestors alive,
(27:40):
so it's yeah you know, it's nota massive surprise when the mind
is, like you know, looking tothe thing that, uh, it's
associating with keeping usalive yeah, absolutely,
absolutely.
Donna Eade (27:53):
So I would love it if you could give us three sort
of and I feel like we've hadquite a quite a lot that we
could take away already intoday's episode but three things
that we could implement thatcould help us reduce or get rid
of these side effects that wedon't want to be experiencing
yeah, and I think it does sortof really depend on what the
(28:17):
side effect is.
Oliver Cooke (28:18):
But for I'll just give like a couple of examples
with different ones and and yeah, hopefully that will be useful
if somebody's got thatparticular like quote-unquote
side effect.
So I think, so fear is one ofthe big things that I'm
supporting adjusting the dartsfor with my clients most often,
and so if there's perhaps like afear about the next thing that
(28:40):
you're doing in your businessand it's got to a point where
essentially, the side effect isthat you really want to do it,
you have the strategy and youknow how to perhaps like launch
this thing or promote this thing, but for some reason you've
been avoiding and likely it'snot all areas, it's just this
one like particular thing thatkeeps getting moved from to do
(29:02):
list to to do list yeah, thenwhat happens?
There is like the more it getsavoided, the more the
unconscious mind learns thatthis thing is actually dangerous
.
And so if you think about, likea Formula One driver who is,
let's say, just on a practiceday they're just getting in the
car and driving around they'reprobably not feeling much fear,
(29:25):
even though it's objectively apretty dangerous thing that
they're doing, driving at like200 miles an hour around
dangerous corners.
But because they've movedtowards that and they've gone
out of their way to do that sooften, they've taught their
unconscious mind this thing isnot dangerous even though it is.
So it doesn't really matter ifit is or it's not.
And the same goes when somebodyis avoiding getting in a car.
(29:49):
Again and again and againthey've taught their mind this
thing is dangerous.
And so then anytime it's evenperhaps even thought about or
referenced by someone, thenervous system will start to to
detect um right, the perceivedthreats, start to go into a fear
response.
And so what you can do is kindof almost move like one step
(30:10):
ahead with your mind, so seeingyourself first actually doing
perhaps the next step towhatever this task is, and so
stay ahead in your mind, andthen the actual real action you
do can be kind of like one ortwo steps behind that.
And so you just start movingforwards and you start showing
your mind this thing isn'tdeadly, because ultimately
(30:33):
that's what unconscious mindcares about.
It's like if it's causing fear,it's because it thinks it's
life-threatening.
And so by moving towards it youteach your unconscious mind
this thing is safe, andparticularly if you go out of
your way to move towards it.
Your mind doesn't learn thatsomething is safe if there's a
payoff to the risk.
So what I mean by that is likeif our ancestors saw this bees
(30:58):
nest in the tree and they knewthere was honey there, but there
was a saber-toothed tiger thatthey knew might be hanging
around, it might still be worththe risk to go get the honey,
but if there was no honey and asaber-toothed tiger, they
wouldn't just go walk throughthat area because obviously
that's, that's something that'sdangerous, um, and so, you know,
(31:19):
we can sometimes move throughsomething, but even though it's
really scary, but the mind stilldoesn't learn that this thing
is safe because there was apayoff that we'd seen.
So that can be something, um,to note.
Uh, yeah, so that, yeah, that'sthat's what I guess I'd say,
for, like, one particular areaof fear can be useful to start
doing.
Sometimes it's a bit too muchto even do personally, but that
(31:42):
certainly can be a really usefulthing.
Something around overwhelm, um,which is another thing I think
shows up for a lot.
Often I have my clients, youknow, coming to me and they're
like yeah, I feel reallyoverwhelmed.
I've got this, this, this, this, this, this, literally, this
morning on a coaching call, itwas like seven different things.
It's like, ok, yeah, it makessense why you've been feeling
that way.
And what's going on there is.
(32:04):
It's basically like consciouslyhe was aware of all seven
things, but unconsciously there,like consciously he was aware
of all seven things, butunconscious mind there was like
an error code, and so it waslike don't know how to move
forward.
It's kind of like trying to sitdown at this giant table of food
and going eat it in the firstbite and and mind just goes what
you know how, um, and so makingthings specific, actionable for
(32:29):
the mind and and possible alsois helpful, right, is the way to
kind of move through that.
Often I'll ask my clients youknow, if one thing like sort of
bubbled up to the surface, likea cork in water, you know what
would be at the top of this listof like priorities as you can
see it now, and often somethingwill have a slight edge and then
(32:50):
it's like, okay, so let's startthere, you know.
And and then making it likereally specific, because then
the mind knows what to do, thatit's like okay.
So I take one bite and I putthe bite you know in my mouth
and then I eat that and then Ihave another bite and then
eventually I can get through thewhole table of food, if that
makes sense.
Donna Eade (33:10):
Yeah, it does.
It's that analogy, isn't it the?
How do you eat an elephant one?
Oliver Cooke (33:14):
bite at a time.
Donna Eade (33:15):
So it's literally that and I think it's a good
reminder for everybody, becauseit is one of those things like
we feel like everything.
And I've literally had thistoday I was talking to a
colleague of mine and we weresort of saying how much we've
got to do and there just isn'tenough time to do it, and like
practical time to do somethingwhen we've got meetings coming
(33:39):
up that are taking whole daysout of our work time and we've
got an event coming up.
That's the deadline that theseother things have got to be done
and it's like, well, there'sphysically not the time to do
that, plus do everything that wenormally do on a day-to-day
basis to get ready for thisevent.
What do we do?
And that overwhelm was rightthere.
And so what did I do today?
(34:00):
I did something that was forthat event and pushed something
else that was part of my normalday because technically I could
break that up and not have to doit.
You know it's not ideal, but ifit comes to it, something can
be pushed.
So it's finding thosepriorities and putting them in
(34:23):
place and going okay.
So I don't have to think aboutall of the rest of this list
right now.
There's seven things.
Don't have to think about allof the rest of this list.
Right now there's seven things.
Don't need to think about sixof those.
Let's just focus on that onething and take that first step
or have that first bite.
So I really like that reminderfor us.
Oliver Cooke (34:38):
And sometimes we're just too close to it,
right, yeah, you know it's just.
And sometimes as well, it'slike we have this sense of well,
this, there's no way I can't dothis thing.
And then if somebody's kind ofchallenges you on it a little
bit, it's like really you can't.
There's nothing like it's that,or you know this whole thing
(34:59):
has to fall down.
It's like, ok, actually maybe Icould adjust that or maybe, you
know, so it's not always likesometimes taking things too
literally.
So it's not always likesometimes taking things too
literally, like, and if it's toorigid, I think that's usually
something to kind of question alittle bit.
You know, is there, is theresome thing that could be moved
(35:20):
or reshuffled so that otherthings can fall into place?
But yeah, I do think that oftenthere's like there are lots of
things that can get done andmake sense to get done, lots of
things that can get done andmake sense to get done.
And so, yeah, like you say,it's kind of like shuffling the
priorities, which is a skill initself.
Donna Eade (35:36):
Absolutely.
It's absolutely, oh dear Right.
Ok, so that was a fantasticconversation.
Tell people where they can findout more about you and what it
is that you do where they canfind out more about you and what
it is that you do.
Oliver Cooke (35:54):
Yeah, so you can find me on my website, which is
ollie o-l-i cook with an e atthe end coachingcom, or via my
instagram, which is ollie cookdot coaching, and what I do is I
take more kind of likeresponsibility actually for
being the one that adjusts thedials in our sessions with my
clients and causing those shiftsto kind of click and make sense
(36:16):
to the deeper levels of themind, so that when change
happens it kind of feels natural, it's like, rather than getting
trying to cut your own hair.
I work with people who are likeno, I want someone else to cut
my hair, and so it's.
It's more like that.
I see it that way and typicallythose are the fears in a kind
of like sabotage, that often myclients know what to do, they
(36:39):
know the strategy, they're notnew to that and they're like
yeah, I know what to do For somereason with this thing, I just
haven't been doing it and Ithink there's some fear there.
It feels like a little bit toobig to handle.
People don't usually use thisword for my clients, but what I
how I usually frame it to themis this conflict?
And so it might be either to dowith the way to the goal or,
(37:01):
you know, the process.
Some, some part about theprocess doesn't feel safe, or
some part about of actuallyactually obtaining the goal,
achieving that doesn't feel safe.
And so it's kind of looking atthat and often it would be like,
yeah, logically I'm fine withit, yeah, I'm totally happy,
good to go.
And then it's sort of like,would that be totally okay?
(37:21):
You know, like, does it getgreen lights all the way down?
It's like actually actually, no, not so much.
This is why, you know, I'd feelreally guilty if this happened,
you know, if I had that.
So what I do is I get agreementfrom all levels of the mind so
that logically they're good withit, unconscious mind is good
with it, and then when changehappens like that, it can happen
(37:42):
very quickly.
Often clients will come to me,you know, at the beginning of
the session they feel this way.
At the end of the session theyfeel this way.
At the end of the session theyfeel very different um sometimes
it can take a couple ofsessions.
Yeah, with fears, anxieties,guilt um overwhelm, and so I
have my process.
Yeah, yeah so I have myunstoppable six-month journey
(38:05):
experience, which is kind of foreach level of scaling, where we
do that and we kind of removethe obstacles so they're back to
basically the default which forfor most of the people I meet
with high achievers is likemovement, action, you know yeah
fabulous thank you fabulous well, I will have all of those
(38:26):
linked, all of those avenueslinked down below for you guys,
so do check out the show notesor the blog post to connect with
Ollie.
Donna Eade (38:35):
We're now going to move into the section of the
podcast which is more of aquickfire round, so we don't
have to go too deep, althoughthe first one I do like to go a
little bit deep, but the rest ofthem will be quick fire.
So the first question is whatis the biggest mindset block
that you've had to overcome inyour business so far, which I
(38:55):
always love to ask to mindsetpeople because it's always a
really interesting answer beenso many, but I would say so, yes
, between two but, but one ofthem.
Oliver Cooke (39:14):
I was working as a teacher previously, uh, when I
was living in Vietnam, and whatI didn't realize when I started
my business was there was likethis uh kind of identity, these
beliefs that I had from havingdone that work, that uh were
then there affecting my business, as I mentioned a little bit
earlier, with, like, theemployee mindset.
I think, yeah, that was areally big aha moment for me
realizing oh, you know, I'mdefaulting to like working all
(39:38):
the time and not resting at all.
I'm I'm seeing rest as thisthing that, like, I have to earn
it, like I did when I was doingthat I'm trying to give
everything for free so that thisis not sustainable, um, and and
trying to get everythingperfect.
I'm not trying to giveeverything for free so that this
is not sustainable, and tryingto get everything perfect, I'm
not trying to.
You know, like when I was ateacher, trying not to make any
mistakes.
I'm now bringing that into thisbusiness where, actually, like,
(40:00):
mistakes, failures, are thething that propel me forward.
You know, they're the mostuseful thing, and so it really.
It was like like wow, this islike a 180 in thinking and and
another thing around, likemessaging, was with that kind of
teacher employee mindsetrunning.
It was like, well, don't leaveanyone behind in the class.
(40:20):
You know the weakest student,make sure that they catch up.
And and then, when it comes tolike my messaging, it's like
well, make sure I speak toeveryone, make sure no one feels
left out.
It's like well, then, you'rethen kind of speaking to no one,
right?
Donna Eade (40:31):
yeah, yeah and um.
Oliver Cooke (40:34):
So that was also a humbling realization, as well
as thinking that I was like goodat writing because that was
things that I'd like studied.
And then I was like, oh,copyright, yeah, not so much.
Uh, I think I've got a lot ofwork to do there because, you
know, I'm not getting theresults from my copywriting.
So obviously I've got somestuff to learn.
And that was kind of like ahard pill to swallow because I
(40:54):
thought I was good at it yeah,yeah, that is an issue.
Donna Eade (41:01):
I did creative writing at university and it's
just like, yeah, I'm all rightwriting, but yeah, copywriting
something, it's a completelydifferent beast.
So, yeah, I feel you on thatone Moving into our quickfire
round.
What is the planning tip thatyou would give to people that
helps you with your planning?
Oliver Cooke (41:21):
So when it comes to I guess I'll give the example
of like planning my week, mydays, planning my days, let's
say I'm'm always looking to andthis comes back to the
satisfaction thing that Imentioned earlier I'm looking to
hit the target with what I getdone each day and so only
putting things on the to-do listthat I, you know, I know I can
(41:43):
get done.
I don't always achieve this,but essentially it's like hit
the target because because Ithink what that does, when you,
when you would, when youactually achieve everything,
then you're like oh, that feltreally good, I want to do that
again tomorrow.
But when it's like I'veachieved like two out of 15,
then it kind of can feel def,deflating you know yeah and and
so it's a initially setting upthat way, but also adjusting it,
(42:06):
adjusting expectations.
Throughout the day it's likelike, oh, this big thing
happened.
Now let me adjust, let meadjust, because otherwise, what
I found is, when I get to theend of the day, I'm then I have
the same expectations that I hadat the beginning of the day and
I'm evaluating it through thatlens and I'm thinking, well, I
didn't get enough done.
It's like well, but how is youknow?
How is that OK ultimately?
Donna Eade (42:39):
Mm.
Hmm, that's such a good onebecause that's exactly what
happened to me this morning,actually is that I was working
on something.
I had planned that I was goingto edit a couple of podcasts and
from nine until one, I had acall with somebody.
This issue of you know, thingsneeding to be done by this
(43:01):
deadline came up, so I had to dosomething for that.
I had to update a website link.
I had to create a social mediapost.
That needed to get done.
I got locked out of LinkedIn.
Oh, my goodness, like.
It turned around and said you'vebeen using third party browser
extensions that we don't like,and I'm like what?
I'm not using anything.
(43:21):
So I had all this go on and Igot to one o'clock, which is
obviously an hour before we'resitting down speaking, and I was
like I haven't edited onepodcast.
What on earth?
What have I been doing for thelast four hours?
It was absolutely insane.
And then I wrote it all downand I was like oh, oh, okay,
that equates.
That makes sense, you know,because I was like there are
(43:42):
days when I sit here and Itwiddle my thumbs and I really
should be working and I'mscrolling on my phone and I'm
whatsapping the family.
And you know, it's just one ofthose days where where nothing
really gets done and I know it,at the end of the day, I'm like,
yeah, I spent a lot of timeprocrastinating today, but today
I was like I I've been doing,I've like not looked at my phone
(44:02):
, this is weird.
Oliver Cooke (44:04):
And then, and then I wrote it down, I was like, oh
okay, yeah, that that's, thatmakes sense yeah, I don't think
that's that that's like such agood sort of practice to get
into you and just noticing like,uh, that's why, because so
often I think it just goesunacknowledged and then it
becomes this thing that's justsort of like almost like festers
in the mind.
It's like it's like yeah,exactly, and um, yeah, that that
(44:28):
can then be a very unpleasantexperience.
So, and also energy then going,you know mental energy then
going to thinking, oh well, Ishould have done this and I
should have done that and andthat's also tiring it's pulling
kind of like resources away fromwhat's possible to do now and
or even like rest and doingthings in the evening perhaps
(44:49):
that support the like longevityof working in your business yeah
, yeah, yeah, amazing, amazing.
Donna Eade (44:57):
So, moving on to productivity, is there something
that you do to help you in theday to stay on task?
Is there anything that you cangive to the audience that might
give them a?
Give them a.
Oh, I've not tried that before.
Oliver Cooke (45:12):
What do I do?
I think one thing that I reallylike to do I don't think this
is a particularly like new thingfor most people, but I'll just
like listen to like brown noise,which really helps me, just
like focus in on what I'm doing,and, yeah, I don't know why
that really helps me.
Donna Eade (45:28):
OK, so for people who don't know, because I've
heard of white noise what'sbrown noise?
Oliver Cooke (45:34):
Oh yeah, oh, if you haven't listened to the two,
they're like they're a littlebit different.
Brown noise is kind of deeper.
It's got like a deeper sound toit.
I just find it a little bitclears away some of the mind
stuff and just like keeps mereally like focused on what I'm
doing.
And I'll I'll usually where,where it makes sense, I'll kind
of block my time into, like youknow, doing the same type of
(45:56):
tasks.
Yeah, because I think you knowthe whole like switching between
tasks can be really timeconsuming, as you kind of then
get distracted and then go backto that and yeah.
So those couple of things, aswell as just reclarifying what
are those things that reallymake sense today, like what do I
want to get done?
(46:16):
And yeah, I've definitely beenon a whole journey with this
over over my business and,seeing it from like the
perspective of strategically,what are those things that make
most sense to get done, ratherthan just like what's going to
feel like I'm taking the mostaction, like rowing the hardest,
it's like no, no, but actually,you know, and often what I
found, unfortunately, is thosethings are the scariest things a
(46:40):
lot of the time, and so it'sit's also asking you know what
am I doing today?
That's actually like scary.
Donna Eade (46:48):
Yeah, yeah, that does make sense.
That does make sense.
So what is the thing that youare doing at the moment that is
working in terms of buildingyour audience?
I think that's something peopleare struggling with right now.
I think people have turnedaround and said to me I've heard
it a lot at the moment thatInstagram isn't performing the
way it was and people don'treally know why they're not
(47:09):
getting the engagement they oncegot.
You know, facebook's all noisy,blah, blah, blah blah.
So there's lots of things thatgo on that sort of knock us off
our feet when it comes tobuilding our audience.
But what's one of the thingsthat you're seeing success with
when it comes to building youraudience?
Oliver Cooke (47:24):
so I don't know like what sort of stage somebody
is at you know, I'm sure allsorts of stages when they're
listening, um.
And but one thing that I foundguest training in in people's
kind of like programs I found islike a really useful way to
actually get in front of it whenit's a complimentary thing to
(47:44):
what you're offering as well.
I think it can be a reallymutually beneficial way to reach
people who are like at thatstage where they're kind of like
ready for that type of work.
And yeah, I've done I've donekind of a number of those in the
last few months and I foundthat like the type of people who
find me are actually likereally, you know, they're sort
(48:06):
of really ready for this type ofwork.
They're like, yeah, like youknow what you're doing, really,
uh, resonated with me.
Donna Eade (48:11):
You know this is where I'm at, and so I think
that would probably be like mysort of number one, I think yeah
um, yeah, that's a really goodone, because I think, uh, I've
just been doing some uh workrecently on account-based
marketing and, for those of youwho aren't aware of what that is
, it's basically looking for theclients that you want to work
(48:33):
with and gearing all of yourmarketing towards just them
literally just them.
So it's more used in sort ofcorporate.
So if I wanted Coca-Cola to bemy client, all of my marketing
would be focused on how do I getCoca-Cola to buy my thing?
So what is Coca-Cola'spriorities?
What do they want to see fromthe products that I'm selling?
(48:55):
What are they going to want toknow about it?
What?
What is going to?
What are they doing in theirbusiness at the moment that I
can help with that?
This product will help them withand focusing it on that, and
it's a lot more work, I think,in terms of the thinking around
it, because you're so, sohyper-niched into it.
(49:16):
However, the reward for a bigclient like that on your books
versus, you know, a smatteringof little people, would be a
huge win for you.
So I think, in the same way,doing this, like creating a
training or something, is a lotmore hard work than it is to put
(49:36):
a social media post out.
However, you're going into acomplimentary group, like you
said.
I mean, the audience has tomake sense of people that are
much more likely to buy from youthan random strangers on the
internet that are going to findyour Instagram account, so
therefore, it's more work.
However, the reward is likelyto be higher because of the type
(49:59):
of people that you're reachingin there, and I think that's
something that we often overlook.
We see is, oh, that's going tobe too much work, but if the
audience is right, it can have amuch better return on your
investment right, really good,yeah, and it's.
Oliver Cooke (50:15):
It's also.
It's also leveraged as well inways that perhaps sometimes the
social media posts you just postit once and never repurpose it
or something.
Yeah, it's, if you, if you makea training that would also work
in other people's, you know itcan also be leveraged in that
sense you make it and then maybeyou know you still have to
deliver it, but at least you'vekind of mapped it out.
You've got some kind of likecore um things that you're
teaching that you can use againyeah, absolutely fantastic.
Donna Eade (50:38):
Right now we move on to my very, very quick fire
round, because we I know that weare running over time it's been
a really good conversation, sowhat is the?
Podcast that you're lovingright now yeah, this, this one's
actually like.
Oliver Cooke (50:49):
I'm like oh, this is such a generic answer, but
actually it's diary of a ceo, alot of people say it and I think
it's the one that gets peopleinto podcasting, so I'm not bad
about it yeah, yeah, of courseI've listened to.
You know various different ones.
It's just they've beenparticularly, they've been like
some kind of episodes aroundfear.
I really find anything on thetopic of fear interesting.
Because of my personal journeywith like anxiety and what I
(51:12):
support my clients with, I'malways looking to be like, oh so
how did they overcome this and,from what I understand, why did
that work, you know, and so I'mdrawn to that sort of stuff, so
I find it really fascinating.
Donna Eade (51:27):
Yeah.
Oliver Cooke (51:29):
What's the book that's made the biggest impact
on your life so far?
I think it would be 4,000 Weeksby Oliver.
Donna Eade (51:33):
Berkman, I don't know if you've read that, no.
Oliver Cooke (51:35):
I've not heard that one.
It's really flips some thingson its head when it comes to
like.
Donna Eade (51:39):
Oh, is that like how long most people live?
Yeah, yeah.
Oliver Cooke (51:47):
So it's quite, it's pretty confronting, yeah to
to hear it that way.
But it's also the way that heuh sort of puts that to your
advantage and the way that heframes it and the way that he
gets you to kind of see that asactually as such a benefit is
very different to what I thinkmost people would guess before
reading it.
And so you know he'sessentially saying things like
you'll, you'll miss out on right, be okay with that.
(52:08):
You know, what are the choicesthat give you meaning?
Like, what are those choices?
What are those things you'redoing with your life that
actually do give meaning?
What matters?
You know, focus on that,because you will miss out on
many things, you know.
And yeah, I just think it's areally interesting book.
Donna Eade (52:20):
Yeah, fabulous.
We'll have that linked on mybookshelf, guys if you want to
go and check it out?
Um, and then what's your go-tosnack when you're in a hurry?
Oliver Cooke (52:28):
uh, so I'm I'm kind of weird when it comes to
like snacks.
I really like fruit, so applesI probably apple, but I also
like dark chocolate like 90.
So those two snacks andactually anything salt and
vinegar flavoured is pretty goodfor me.
Donna Eade (52:44):
Yeah, okay.
And what is your ultimate metime thing to do?
Oliver Cooke (52:51):
Long walks, yeah, just walks, where I either
listen to podcasts, listen toaudio books or just nothing and
just kind of, like you know,more mindful walks.
That's what I really like to dofor myself.
Donna Eade (53:05):
Love that, love that .
Well.
Thank you so much for your timetoday, ollie.
It's been a fantasticconversation.
I hope you've enjoyed it.
Guys, don't forget to go andconnect with Ollie on his
website and on his Instagram,and we will see you in another
episode real soon.
Bye for now.
You're listening to the Mindset in Action podcast,
the place to be to grow andstreamline your business.
I'm your host, donna Eade.
Let's jump into the show.
Oh, welcome back to the podcast, everybody.
I'm so glad to have you heretoday, and I have a guest with
(00:23):
me today.
His name is Oliver Cook.
Welcome to the podcast, ollie.
Oliver Cooke (00:27):
Hi Donna, Thanks so much for having me.
It's great to be here.
Donna Eade (00:31):
I am excited for this conversation.
Success without the sideeffects Sounds amazing, although
I think we're going to diveinto a little bit of what those
side effects might be, because Ithink that could be different
for different people.
But before we dive into all ofthat goodness, why don't you
tell my audience a little bitabout who you are and what it is
that you do?
Oliver Cooke (00:51):
Yeah, so I'm a mindset and performance coach
for driven entrepreneurs whowant success without side
effects ultimately.
So they are looking to scaleand grow their like, their
business, but also theirfulfillment.
That's a value that theydefinitely have too.
(01:11):
I'm the creator of the rapidroot level shifts method, which
is what I use to dissolve thesubconscious fears, inner blocks
, limitations to doing that.
Scaling and what I mean byscaling in the context that I
use with my clients is kind of,if you have perhaps full
(01:35):
one-on-ones and you're lookingto do more leveraged one-on-one
offers or groups, digitalproducts or perhaps you're a
solo entrepreneur working byyourself and you're looking to
expand into having a small team.
Or you have a small team andyou're looking to kind of grow
that, but you're coming upagainst some kind of fears,
(01:57):
perhaps limiting beliefs ormindset obstacles to that.
I am a bit of a wanderer.
In the last like 10 years I'velived.
I lived for a number of yearsin Vietnam.
I'm from the UK.
I've also been living inMauritius for the last couple of
years, but I'm in back rightnow and my partner's South
(02:19):
African.
We've been together like sevenyears and I intend to kind of
move there soon.
And uh, yeah, the last thing Iguess I'd say that's significant
is I've had a.
I'm a former lifelong anxietysufferer, panic attack sufferer,
and I really get how painful itcan be when you've got, like,
(02:41):
the external accomplishments,the external success, but it
doesn't match how you feelinternally.
And so one of the things that Ihelp my clients with is sort of
optimising the mindset, gettingthose messages down to the root
as well, so that they sort offeel as successful as often
other people think they look.
Donna Eade (03:02):
Yeah, I love that.
I think that is something thata lot of us um sort of suffer
with.
Um, and we had a lady on thepodcast a few weeks back, my
friend Nicola Tonsargo, and wewere talking about imposter
syndrome.
Um, it was one of my livesessions.
That happened at my event and,yeah, that thing that you can
see from the outside, oh, lookat the success this person's got
(03:24):
, yet internally they'resuffering with this.
Oh, my gosh, I, I'm, who am Ito do this?
And and who's gonna?
What are people thinking whenthey look at me doing this and
and things like that?
So I think that's a big topic,um, that always comes up and
it's great to sort of see thatyou're coming from a place of
having experienced this yourselfso you can really tap into what
(03:49):
people are feeling.
I think it's always theeducation side of coaching is
really, really valuable and Ihighly you know I love a
certificate, so I like it whenpeople have done the work.
But when you've actually had todo the work yourself and go
through those steps yourself,you've got an hard to put
yourself into those shoes andunderstand the types of feelings
(04:27):
that people can be feelingcomes to their business, when it
comes to their life and thingslike that.
So really interesting to sortof have a little glimpse into
your story there.
And I have to touch on yourSouth African connection there,
because my very good friend,claire Prothero, will be
listening to this podcast atsome point and she is my friend
(04:49):
from South Africa.
She's my accountability buddy.
We've been friends for overfour years now, so I would be
remiss if I didn't ask what areaof South Africa is your
girlfriend from?
yeah, she's from Cape Town ohlovely, that's where Claire is,
oh amazing yeah so yeah.
So when you move over, let meknow and I'll put you in touch
and you could go out for aone-to-one yeah, thank you very
(05:11):
much.
Yeah, I'm like to make theconnections thank you yeah, it's
, it's beautiful.
I'm really lucky that Claireoften shares with me.
When she's out and about andwe're having our one-to-ones, uh
, she will take me to places andshow me like I've seen tabletop
mountain.
I don't know that I'll ever getto see it in person, but I have
seen it through a phone in realtime.
(05:31):
So, um, that was quite cool.
Wow, um, okay.
So on to the topic of the day.
You're talking about successwithout side effects, and I
think the first thing we have todo is talk about what those
side effects can look like.
So tell us, what kind of sideeffects do you mean when you're
talking about doing it withoutthem?
Oliver Cooke (05:54):
Yeah.
So I guess the thing toprobably like preface this with
is that, of course, there aremany different things that are
really genuinely tough when itcomes to like building a
business and life right, lifehappens and all the challenges
that come there.
The way I look at things iskind of as a way of thinking
(06:17):
rather than what is true.
So there are people muchsmarter than me who disagree
about what true is.
So I'm more interested inwhat's useful for my own
thinking, for my clients, andwhen I'm referring to side
effects, it's like the pressure,stress, overworking,
overthinking, even things likeguilt, anxiety, fear and the
(06:41):
sort of never enoughness thatcan often be the felt experience
as an entrepreneur and those.
What I'm looking to do isbasically dial down the
experience of thoseunderstanding that essentially,
it's not so much the actualcircumstances that we're in
they're going to keep presentingchallenges but if not, everyone
(07:03):
is experiencing it like me.
So I'm experiencing it this wayand that person's experiencing
it that way, even though it'sthe same thing, they look a lot
calmer or they look a lot more.
You know how does that happen,and so then what I'm interested
in doing is is basicallyadjusting the inner dials so
that the experience of thosethings are much more different,
like more strategic, clear, cal,calmer, so that that's what I'm
(07:25):
referring to when I'm when I'mtalking about side effects.
It's it's it's not that all ofa sudden, you don't do anything
that doesn't feel amazing inyour business, right, it's, it's
that even doing those reallyedgy and challenging things and
and unknown and and things thatperhaps, uh, bring up a lot of
fear, it's actually just gettingthe nervous system to a place
(07:46):
where it's much better able todo them and often, you know,
actually changing the experienceentirely when it comes to how
it's felt.
Donna Eade (07:57):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's the thing is.
It's those dials.
That imagery that you just gavethere of dials is really sort
of impactful to me as a visualperson which is so funny that I
do a podcast when I'm a visualperson.
But you know, we move thosedials.
(08:18):
It's not about them alwaysbeing to the left in the happy
place, it's being able tomoderate them and understand
them, I think, because you knowthey're.
We've always got to do inbusiness things that we don't
want to do.
Um, until we're at a pointwhere we can outsource them or
something, there's always goingto be things that we don't want
to do.
So many people don't want to dotheir taxes, you know, but it's
(08:41):
a necessary evil of doingbusiness, so we've got to do it.
So you're going to be goinginto that with some fear, some
trepidation, some like anxietyand things like that, but it's
knowing that this is thesituation, knowing why it's
happening and being able tochange the view a little bit so
(09:02):
that we're not sitting in thathigh sort of cortisol level
whilst we're doing it.
So I think that's a reallyinteresting way to look at it.
We spoke just before we hitrecord and I was talking about
that culture of hustle whichjust seems to be so prevalent in
the entrepreneurial space thatpeople are like, oh, you've got
to hustle, you've got to hustle,you've got to hustle, you've
(09:23):
got to hustle, you've got tohustle.
And then now we seem to beseeing a bit of a turn to that
sort of hustle culture.
But a lot of it's coming fromthese huge entrepreneurs that
did all that hustling.
And you know, if you've beenaround in the entrepreneurial
space for any length of time,you've likely seen it.
You know, I've been around inthe space for the last sort of
10 years or so.
(09:44):
I've seen Amy Porterfield fromepisode 41 to episode 700 and
whatever it was that she endedthe online marketing made easy
podcast before she changed it toher own show.
I've seen the hustle that shewent through.
I've seen other entrepreneursfrom near the beginning of their
journeys and what they wentthrough, and now they all seem
(10:05):
to be talking about.
You know, oh, you don't have todo it the way I did it.
You know, I wish I'd have donethis soon.
I wish I'd have gone to a fourday week, I wish I had hired out
sooner.
I wish I had done this and youcan do it too, and I feel like
they're not quite in theposition to give us that advice,
because they didn't do it thatway and it's easy to say, oh
(10:25):
yeah, I can hire out now thatyou've got multi-millions of
pounds.
Um, not everybody has thatsituation.
So what's your kind of thoughtson, on this turn of hustle
culture of the?
You know the do it the easy way.
Where do you kind of fall onthat spectrum?
What are your thoughts?
Oliver Cooke (10:41):
yeah, that's so interesting and there's kind of
the two ends of the kind of likethe extremes and yeah, I think
it's what I'm looking to do formy clients all the time is
actually get accurateexpectations.
I think so much of what causesa lot of emotional turmoil and
kind of mental is thinking, oh,things should be different to
(11:02):
how they are, based on how longI've been doing this and how
long I've been doing this andhow long I've been doing that,
and the expectations are kind oflike haven't been adjusted and
so the thinking, you know, Ishould be, I should be at my
destination by now, becausesomeone told me it only takes
five minutes to get there, where, in actual fact, I'm kind of
going in and I'm like, well,actually it takes 30 minutes,
you know, so you're right ontrack.
(11:24):
You know, well, actually ittakes 30 minutes, you know, so
you're right on track, you know,and and what that can do
immediately is be like, oh, okay, so I'm not, you mean, I'm not
behind.
Actually that's just likehaving more accurate
expectations.
So I think definitely thatthere is a place for really
digging in and doing the thingsthat really move things forward
and, and I also think there aresort of programs, kind of
(11:45):
identities, if you like, that weperhaps have running at an
unconscious level, that thenyou're sort of shifting to more
of an entrepreneurial mindset.
(12:07):
There were certain things thatgot you to do really well as an
employee that don't work so wellas an entrepreneur, right, and
so working really long hours onsomething might have impressed
someone or it might have know,got a lot of work done.
But then if you're, if you'refinding that as an entrepreneur,
you you're working so hard andlong hours on something that you
(12:31):
haven't realized that whatyou're doing doesn't actually
make sense to be doing, then itcan be sort of getting in the
way and that hustle is kind oflike moving you forward in one
direction, but without thequestioning of it.
Does it actually make sense tobe going in this direction?
Is that towards where I want toend up, or am I just moving
forward for the sake of feelinglike I'm taking action and being
(12:51):
busy?
Donna Eade (12:54):
Yeah, that's so true and I love that.
I love that you said thatpeople about people sort of seen
as a five minute journey whenactually it's a 30 minute
journey, and I think that'ssomething that has been really
prevalent in a lot of the biggerentrepreneurs that sort of have
the big budgets to do all theadverts and be in all the places
(13:17):
.
It's kind of the message youhear from them is buy my
programme and in 10 weeks, whenyou finished it, you're going to
have X, y, z and they'reshowing you all of these
testimonials of people that havehad, you know, 100,000 pound
launches or you know they'vedone a 10k month in their first
(13:38):
month out, etc.
Etc.
And it's like, and that's notit for everybody, and I think
that it's not false advertisingbecause those people I'm sure
did do what they say they'vedone.
But it's the exception to therule, not the rule.
In my opinion, I think, like therule is somewhere much, much
(13:59):
lower down in the success totempole and we're not getting to
see that.
So we go into that programmethinking, great, at the end of
this I'm going to do a launchand I'm going to get what these
amazing entrepreneurs have got,and then, when we don't, we feel
like we failed and then wemight give up rather than
(14:20):
realising, like you said, thatwe were told it was going to be
a five-minute journey andactually no, no, for most people
it's a 30 minute journeybecause you've got to take a few
wrong turns before you get tothe destination right, right,
yeah, absolutely yeah.
Oliver Cooke (14:34):
And I think often with that.
Then what I notice, uh, youknow my own mind doing at times
and with my clients, it's likecherry picking certain things.
It's like, well, I haven't gotthat bit and I haven't got that
bit.
And what I say to that, whichis usually useful, is because I
think often the the comparisonthing happens and then what I
realize is it's just taking oneaspect and cherry picking that
(14:57):
and being like, oh, but I don'thave that bit that they've got.
I really want that.
And it's almost like fixatingon that, like the launch where
they made this much money orwhatever, or they did it in this
way.
And I do a kind of thoughtexperiment.
So I'm like you know, you can'tcherry pick one thing, because
it you know, if you were to havethat, you would have to trade
off all of the other experiences.
(15:17):
So in order to have thatparticular launch that they had,
you would also have to havetheir entire uh business.
You know their family, their uhlife experiences, their
memories, and you would tradeoff yours.
So you'd lose all of your lifeexperiences.
You lose all of your memories,all of your family, um, your
(15:38):
business.
Do you still want it.
You know, and I think sort ofpresenting it in that way it
makes it much harder to compareand much easier to see.
Ah, okay, so I can't justcherry pick one bit, I have to
have all or nothing.
I think I choose nothing andI'll just keep going on my own
particular path oh, that's,that's a really good visual
actually.
Donna Eade (15:58):
Yeah, that, that's so true.
Wow, that's a powerful one.
Oh my goodness, yeah, thatthat's.
That's highlighted some thingsfor me, for sure might be
journaling on that a little bitlater.
Um so, can we truly besuccessful without being on the
(16:20):
brink of burnout, sort of everysix months?
I feel like a lot of peopletalk about burnout and I
actually listened to somethingyesterday where they they asked
the person what, what is youropinion on burnout?
And she said burnout isn'tfailure.
It's your body telling you thatyou need to readjust your
(16:44):
priorities, which I really likedthat kind of analogy of it,
like it's not failure.
It's your body telling you youneed to reevaluate your
priorities.
And I think I can see the truthin that.
And a lot of entrepreneurs goand go and go and they're trying
to be successful, and they doit to the detriment of their
(17:06):
health, they do it to thedetriment of their nutrition,
they do it to the detriment oftheir family time and they keep
going, keep going untilsomething gives and they have to
stop.
And then they feel like they'refailure and then they're like,
oh, I can't do this.
And they go through that wholeconversation of like why am I
doing?
I should just go and get a job,this isn't working, blah, blah,
(17:28):
blah.
And then something will happenthat makes them think, you know,
they'll remember that they'recompletely unemployable and
nobody's going to hire them.
So, like no, I've got to makethis work.
And they get back on the trainand they start again.
Oliver Cooke (17:56):
So is there a way that we can kind of maybe lessen
that, so that it's not notgetting to that full burnout
stage where we're at the pointof collapse but we're actually
sort of, um, it's.
It's a very topical thing, youknow, it's something that comes
up a lot, and one thing thattends to happen is without even
really being consciously awareof it, outside of conscious
awareness, usually, once aparticular thing has been
achieved, the goalposts move,the horizon moves, but before
(18:20):
you know they've even realized,and so it's kind of like well,
um, that wasn't even registeredas as like the end point or that
.
You know there was no stoppingthere, it just continued,
continued, continued.
So I think one of the thingsthat can make a big difference
is is and it might seem seemlike little, but actually it's
(18:41):
quite significant in terms ofwhat it can cause for for for
your experience is how youactually define success.
And if I think about how Iwould have defined success, like
five years ago, or how, how, um, I think it's very common to
define success it's like well,you know, I want to have a lot
of money making a big impact,really doing good in the world,
(19:02):
and they're all kind of quiteexternal things and what they
sort of place it out there.
They place it out there, sothere's kind of like, you know,
this gap that needs to be filled, this chasing that happens and
you see it everywhere, right, soit's so normal.
I like to, I like to sort offlip things around a bit so that
actually success andfulfillment is something that I
(19:26):
believe you can be 100% in rightnow and also more ambitious
than you've ever been.
So I think of it as highperformance and high fulfillment
and adjusting the way you seesuccess.
I would define it personallyand it's just my personal frame,
(19:47):
is a state of mind, and I know,maybe that sounds a little bit
corny, but if you think about it, there are people who are
incredibly successful, haveachieved, ticked every single
box that you can think of, andwe'd ask them do you feel
successful?
And it's like not yet right,it's right, it's like okay, um,
(20:07):
so what is success then, ifthat's not it?
Because I was thinking that wasit, and so I think I like to
ask the kind of harder questionsand and really I I see it as
like, if you, if you canbasically cultivate a way of
thinking that you are successfulnow, today.
Why wouldn't you do that?
Like, is there actually adownside to that?
And some people might say, well, yeah, I need that hunger to
(20:32):
keep going right.
If I don't, if I never feelsatisfied, then I know I'll keep
going right.
But I actually I just don'tagree with that.
I think when you're feelingsatisfied and fulfilled, plus
you have big goals and ambitions, I think they work really well
together.
And when you feel satisfied bysomething, it makes you want to
do it again.
And so I think at the beginningof the day, you can even start
(20:54):
to be sort of looking for how amI already being successful
today?
You know what lets me know thatI've got this.
You know I've got this lunchwith a.
You know with a friend at thistime, I've got this meeting with
these clients.
You know this time, and you canstart training your mind to
actually look for the ways inwhich you're already being
successful.
(21:14):
And, of course, you know there'sstill plenty of room for and I
also would like to reallyachieve that thing and that
thing, but it's.
But today, how am I alreadybeing successful?
Because that also helps tointegrate the previous wins
you've had and the previousmilestones you've hit that often
get ignored, right, and, and Ithink when those get ignored
(21:37):
they don't get integrated andtherefore that that sort of
again feeds that kind of cycleof like never enough, because if
it's never acknowledged, ifit's never like, made high
definition until you see lookwhat you just achieved, right,
then why would it, why would thefuture examples and
achievements be any different?
So, yeah, I think that'schanging that like definition
(21:59):
and how you actually see success, I think can already help to
reshuffle those priorities,because then it's like well, no,
this is why I'm not going to bedoing this today, you know,
because that really doesn't fitin with how I see success.
Now, yeah, and yeah, that's howI would have answered that.
Donna Eade (22:21):
I really love that and I've got a couple of like
images that came to me while youwere talking there and that was
like the satisfaction andwanting more of that.
That always happens when I havea bar of chocolate.
I've never had a bar ofchocolate and gone.
You know what that sounds good.
I never need another bar ofchocolate in my life, so you
know there's a good analogy foryou.
Yeah, it also made me think ofsomething that my friend Claire
(22:50):
actually is always talking aboutcelebrating the small wins, and
one of the things I didrecently was I hosted an event
at the beginning of April tocelebrate five years of this
podcast, and it's because Inever celebrate the wins, it's
just not something that I'vedone.
But what I've just realised asyou were talking was, yes, I
(23:10):
celebrated that win, but I didit with something that meant I
had to do more and I was incharge of this event.
I organised it all.
I did all of the work for itand I couldn't be fully present
with my guests on the daybecause I was the person who's
organised, so I knew whereeverything was.
I needed to go here, there andeverywhere, and I was the person
who's organised, so I knewwhere everything was.
I needed to go here, there andeverywhere, and I was kind of
(23:32):
the key player at the frontthrough the whole event.
So I didn't get to be aspresent as I would have liked
that you would have maybe havehad if it was a party.
I've been describing it topeople as I was the bride and
the wedding planner on the day.
So everybody wanted to talk tome because it was my event but I
didn't have time to because Iwas organising it all and had to
(23:52):
move around.
So I kind of did myself alittle bit of a disservice there
in that respect of not beingable to really sit in it and
enjoy it and take that win, butalso the process of organising
an event.
Now my event financially made aloss and I'm going to do an
episode or I might have done anepisode by the time this one
(24:13):
comes out on sort of creating anin-person event and what that
actually looks like financiallyand the benefits, pros and cons
and things, because I think it'sinteresting.
I don't think a lot of peopletalk about it, so I'm going to
use myself as an example.
But it a loss and that was kindof.
I had the two focuses.
I had the focus of there wassome really good conversations
(24:33):
that happened in that room and Iknow that people got value out
of it and people have told methat they really enjoyed it and
they really found it the room, areally nice room to be in with
the people that were there.
So I know that there was apositive.
But on the other side of it.
I lost money, and so I havethose two things.
So I can't even take the win ofthe fact that the room was
(24:56):
really good and that peoplereally enjoyed it and that
everybody had a good time and Ienjoyed it and that the
afternoon tea was amazing,because there's this other thing
where I feel like I failedbecause it didn't turn a profit
and it's like you can't eventake the small wins because
there's something to knock,knock you down.
So it's like I haven't reallycelebrated the fact that.
(25:19):
My god, I did that.
I sort of sat there and Iorganized it all.
And you know, it doesn't matterthat it made a loss, because I
learned so much doing it.
Not that I'm ever planning ondoing another in-person event
again.
I did say it was a one-off andI plan it to be a one-off, but I
learned so much about methrough doing that.
(25:40):
So there is wins to be taken,even when it looks like on paper
that it was a loss.
There are wins to be taken andI think we often miss that
because we are so focused on theexternal successes, like you
said, and focusing on out thereand comparing ourselves and
(26:01):
looking at what other people aredoing and going well.
I didn't do it as well as X soI failed and not taking that so
really interesting and I foundthat fascinating.
Oliver Cooke (26:13):
Thank you so much yeah, no, and and actually that
you know that example I thinkit's really, you know, I think a
lot of people obviously willresonate so much with that,
where they've kind of tried tocelebrate and and kind of
celebrate those but somethingthat perhaps didn't work out so
well took the, took the mentalspace, and I think that's that
(26:33):
that does make sense, becauseit's kind of, as you've been
running your business for solong, that's kind of where the
focus has been the priority lensand so, yeah, I like you know,
I like how you said it wasactually, you know, I like you
know, I like how you said it wasactually, you know, taking the
time to do it.
(26:58):
That really in itself is thecelebration.
As you look back, it didn'tnecessarily need to feel that
good in order for it to be areally big win, because it was
something that previously hadn'tcome so naturally.
And I think by doing it don'tnecessarily expect it to feel
good, especially the first fewtimes, right when people start,
especially if you know it's likewith any other habit, you know,
with habits of thinking andhabits of feeling, the mind will
(27:18):
go down a particular neuralpathway that's well trodden,
like you know, that pathway inthe forest, and so as soon as
you start trying to go down adifferent one, for a little
while, it's likely to to defaultto the main one.
um plus we, you know, we, wehave this bias towards
negativity which is just like uh, uh, kept our ancestors alive,
(27:40):
so it's yeah you know, it's nota massive surprise when the mind
is, like you know, looking tothe thing that, uh, it's
associating with keeping usalive yeah, absolutely,
absolutely.
Donna Eade (27:53):
So I would love it if you could give us three sort
of and I feel like we've hadquite a quite a lot that we
could take away already intoday's episode but three things
that we could implement thatcould help us reduce or get rid
of these side effects that wedon't want to be experiencing
yeah, and I think it does sortof really depend on what the
(28:17):
side effect is.
Oliver Cooke (28:18):
But for I'll just give like a couple of examples
with different ones and and yeah, hopefully that will be useful
if somebody's got thatparticular like quote-unquote
side effect.
So I think, so fear is one ofthe big things that I'm
supporting adjusting the dartsfor with my clients most often,
and so if there's perhaps like afear about the next thing that
(28:40):
you're doing in your businessand it's got to a point where
essentially, the side effect isthat you really want to do it,
you have the strategy and youknow how to perhaps like launch
this thing or promote this thing, but for some reason you've
been avoiding and likely it'snot all areas, it's just this
one like particular thing thatkeeps getting moved from to do
(29:02):
list to to do list yeah, thenwhat happens?
There is like the more it getsavoided, the more the
unconscious mind learns thatthis thing is actually dangerous
.
And so if you think about, likea Formula One driver who is,
let's say, just on a practiceday they're just getting in the
car and driving around they'reprobably not feeling much fear,
(29:25):
even though it's objectively apretty dangerous thing that
they're doing, driving at like200 miles an hour around
dangerous corners.
But because they've movedtowards that and they've gone
out of their way to do that sooften, they've taught their
unconscious mind this thing isnot dangerous even though it is.
So it doesn't really matter ifit is or it's not.
And the same goes when somebodyis avoiding getting in a car.
(29:49):
Again and again and againthey've taught their mind this
thing is dangerous.
And so then anytime it's evenperhaps even thought about or
referenced by someone, thenervous system will start to to
detect um right, the perceivedthreats, start to go into a fear
response.
And so what you can do is kindof almost move like one step
(30:10):
ahead with your mind, so seeingyourself first actually doing
perhaps the next step towhatever this task is, and so
stay ahead in your mind, andthen the actual real action you
do can be kind of like one ortwo steps behind that.
And so you just start movingforwards and you start showing
your mind this thing isn'tdeadly, because ultimately
(30:33):
that's what unconscious mindcares about.
It's like if it's causing fear,it's because it thinks it's
life-threatening.
And so by moving towards it youteach your unconscious mind
this thing is safe, andparticularly if you go out of
your way to move towards it.
Your mind doesn't learn thatsomething is safe if there's a
payoff to the risk.
So what I mean by that is likeif our ancestors saw this bees
(30:58):
nest in the tree and they knewthere was honey there, but there
was a saber-toothed tiger thatthey knew might be hanging
around, it might still be worththe risk to go get the honey,
but if there was no honey and asaber-toothed tiger, they
wouldn't just go walk throughthat area because obviously
that's, that's something that'sdangerous, um, and so, you know,
(31:19):
we can sometimes move throughsomething, but even though it's
really scary, but the mind stilldoesn't learn that this thing
is safe because there was apayoff that we'd seen.
So that can be something, um,to note.
Uh, yeah, so that, yeah, that'sthat's what I guess I'd say,
for, like, one particular areaof fear can be useful to start
doing.
Sometimes it's a bit too muchto even do personally, but that
(31:42):
certainly can be a really usefulthing.
Something around overwhelm, um,which is another thing I think
shows up for a lot.
Often I have my clients, youknow, coming to me and they're
like yeah, I feel reallyoverwhelmed.
I've got this, this, this, this, this, this, literally, this
morning on a coaching call, itwas like seven different things.
It's like, ok, yeah, it makessense why you've been feeling
that way.
And what's going on there is.
(32:04):
It's basically like consciouslyhe was aware of all seven
things, but unconsciously there,like consciously he was aware
of all seven things, butunconscious mind there was like
an error code, and so it waslike don't know how to move
forward.
It's kind of like trying to sitdown at this giant table of food
and going eat it in the firstbite and and mind just goes what
you know how, um, and so makingthings specific, actionable for
(32:29):
the mind and and possible alsois helpful, right, is the way to
kind of move through that.
Often I'll ask my clients youknow, if one thing like sort of
bubbled up to the surface, likea cork in water, you know what
would be at the top of this listof like priorities as you can
see it now, and often somethingwill have a slight edge and then
(32:50):
it's like, okay, so let's startthere, you know.
And and then making it likereally specific, because then
the mind knows what to do, thatit's like okay.
So I take one bite and I putthe bite you know in my mouth
and then I eat that and then Ihave another bite and then
eventually I can get through thewhole table of food, if that
makes sense.
Donna Eade (33:10):
Yeah, it does.
It's that analogy, isn't it the?
How do you eat an elephant one?
Oliver Cooke (33:14):
bite at a time.
Donna Eade (33:15):
So it's literally that and I think it's a good
reminder for everybody, becauseit is one of those things like
we feel like everything.
And I've literally had thistoday I was talking to a
colleague of mine and we weresort of saying how much we've
got to do and there just isn'tenough time to do it, and like
practical time to do somethingwhen we've got meetings coming
(33:39):
up that are taking whole daysout of our work time and we've
got an event coming up.
That's the deadline that theseother things have got to be done
and it's like, well, there'sphysically not the time to do
that, plus do everything that wenormally do on a day-to-day
basis to get ready for thisevent.
What do we do?
And that overwhelm was rightthere.
And so what did I do today?
(34:00):
I did something that was forthat event and pushed something
else that was part of my normalday because technically I could
break that up and not have to doit.
You know it's not ideal, but ifit comes to it, something can
be pushed.
So it's finding thosepriorities and putting them in
(34:23):
place and going okay.
So I don't have to think aboutall of the rest of this list
right now.
There's seven things.
Don't have to think about allof the rest of this list.
Right now there's seven things.
Don't need to think about sixof those.
Let's just focus on that onething and take that first step
or have that first bite.
So I really like that reminderfor us.
Oliver Cooke (34:38):
And sometimes we're just too close to it,
right, yeah, you know it's just.
And sometimes as well, it'slike we have this sense of well,
this, there's no way I can't dothis thing.
And then if somebody's kind ofchallenges you on it a little
bit, it's like really you can't.
There's nothing like it's that,or you know this whole thing
(34:59):
has to fall down.
It's like, ok, actually maybe Icould adjust that or maybe, you
know, so it's not always likesometimes taking things too
literally.
So it's not always likesometimes taking things too
literally, like, and if it's toorigid, I think that's usually
something to kind of question alittle bit.
You know, is there, is theresome thing that could be moved
(35:20):
or reshuffled so that otherthings can fall into place?
But yeah, I do think that oftenthere's like there are lots of
things that can get done andmake sense to get done, lots of
things that can get done andmake sense to get done.
And so, yeah, like you say,it's kind of like shuffling the
priorities, which is a skill initself.
Donna Eade (35:36):
Absolutely.
It's absolutely, oh dear Right.
Ok, so that was a fantasticconversation.
Tell people where they can findout more about you and what it
is that you do where they canfind out more about you and what
it is that you do.
Oliver Cooke (35:54):
Yeah, so you can find me on my website, which is
ollie o-l-i cook with an e atthe end coachingcom, or via my
instagram, which is ollie cookdot coaching, and what I do is I
take more kind of likeresponsibility actually for
being the one that adjusts thedials in our sessions with my
clients and causing those shiftsto kind of click and make sense
(36:16):
to the deeper levels of themind, so that when change
happens it kind of feels natural, it's like, rather than getting
trying to cut your own hair.
I work with people who are likeno, I want someone else to cut
my hair, and so it's.
It's more like that.
I see it that way and typicallythose are the fears in a kind
of like sabotage, that often myclients know what to do, they
(36:39):
know the strategy, they're notnew to that and they're like
yeah, I know what to do For somereason with this thing, I just
haven't been doing it and Ithink there's some fear there.
It feels like a little bit toobig to handle.
People don't usually use thisword for my clients, but what I
how I usually frame it to themis this conflict?
And so it might be either to dowith the way to the goal or,
(37:01):
you know, the process.
Some, some part about theprocess doesn't feel safe, or
some part about of actuallyactually obtaining the goal,
achieving that doesn't feel safe.
And so it's kind of looking atthat and often it would be like,
yeah, logically I'm fine withit, yeah, I'm totally happy,
good to go.
And then it's sort of like,would that be totally okay?
(37:21):
You know, like, does it getgreen lights all the way down?
It's like actually actually, no, not so much.
This is why, you know, I'd feelreally guilty if this happened,
you know, if I had that.
So what I do is I get agreementfrom all levels of the mind so
that logically they're good withit, unconscious mind is good
with it, and then when changehappens like that, it can happen
(37:42):
very quickly.
Often clients will come to me,you know, at the beginning of
the session they feel this way.
At the end of the session theyfeel this way.
At the end of the session theyfeel very different um sometimes
it can take a couple ofsessions.
Yeah, with fears, anxieties,guilt um overwhelm, and so I
have my process.
Yeah, yeah so I have myunstoppable six-month journey
(38:05):
experience, which is kind of foreach level of scaling, where we
do that and we kind of removethe obstacles so they're back to
basically the default which forfor most of the people I meet
with high achievers is likemovement, action, you know yeah
fabulous thank you fabulous well, I will have all of those
(38:26):
linked, all of those avenueslinked down below for you guys,
so do check out the show notesor the blog post to connect with
Ollie.
Donna Eade (38:35):
We're now going to move into the section of the
podcast which is more of aquickfire round, so we don't
have to go too deep, althoughthe first one I do like to go a
little bit deep, but the rest ofthem will be quick fire.
So the first question is whatis the biggest mindset block
that you've had to overcome inyour business so far, which I
(38:55):
always love to ask to mindsetpeople because it's always a
really interesting answer beenso many, but I would say so, yes
, between two but, but one ofthem.
Oliver Cooke (39:14):
I was working as a teacher previously, uh, when I
was living in Vietnam, and whatI didn't realize when I started
my business was there was likethis uh kind of identity, these
beliefs that I had from havingdone that work, that uh were
then there affecting my business, as I mentioned a little bit
earlier, with, like, theemployee mindset.
I think, yeah, that was areally big aha moment for me
realizing oh, you know, I'mdefaulting to like working all
(39:38):
the time and not resting at all.
I'm I'm seeing rest as thisthing that, like, I have to earn
it, like I did when I was doingthat I'm trying to give
everything for free so that thisis not sustainable, um, and and
trying to get everythingperfect.
I'm not trying to giveeverything for free so that this
is not sustainable, and tryingto get everything perfect, I'm
not trying to.
You know, like when I was ateacher, trying not to make any
mistakes.
I'm now bringing that into thisbusiness where, actually, like,
(40:00):
mistakes, failures, are thething that propel me forward.
You know, they're the mostuseful thing, and so it really.
It was like like wow, this islike a 180 in thinking and and
another thing around, likemessaging, was with that kind of
teacher employee mindsetrunning.
It was like, well, don't leaveanyone behind in the class.
(40:20):
You know the weakest student,make sure that they catch up.
And and then, when it comes tolike my messaging, it's like
well, make sure I speak toeveryone, make sure no one feels
left out.
It's like well, then, you'rethen kind of speaking to no one,
right?
Donna Eade (40:31):
yeah, yeah and um.
Oliver Cooke (40:34):
So that was also a humbling realization, as well
as thinking that I was like goodat writing because that was
things that I'd like studied.
And then I was like, oh,copyright, yeah, not so much.
Uh, I think I've got a lot ofwork to do there because, you
know, I'm not getting theresults from my copywriting.
So obviously I've got somestuff to learn.
And that was kind of like ahard pill to swallow because I
(40:54):
thought I was good at it yeah,yeah, that is an issue.
Donna Eade (41:01):
I did creative writing at university and it's
just like, yeah, I'm all rightwriting, but yeah, copywriting
something, it's a completelydifferent beast.
So, yeah, I feel you on thatone Moving into our quickfire
round.
What is the planning tip thatyou would give to people that
helps you with your planning?
Oliver Cooke (41:21):
So when it comes to I guess I'll give the example
of like planning my week, mydays, planning my days, let's
say I'm'm always looking to andthis comes back to the
satisfaction thing that Imentioned earlier I'm looking to
hit the target with what I getdone each day and so only
putting things on the to-do listthat I, you know, I know I can
(41:43):
get done.
I don't always achieve this,but essentially it's like hit
the target because because Ithink what that does, when you,
when you would, when youactually achieve everything,
then you're like oh, that feltreally good, I want to do that
again tomorrow.
But when it's like I'veachieved like two out of 15,
then it kind of can feel def,deflating you know yeah and and
so it's a initially setting upthat way, but also adjusting it,
(42:06):
adjusting expectations.
Throughout the day it's likelike, oh, this big thing
happened.
Now let me adjust, let meadjust, because otherwise, what
I found is, when I get to theend of the day, I'm then I have
the same expectations that I hadat the beginning of the day and
I'm evaluating it through thatlens and I'm thinking, well, I
didn't get enough done.
It's like well, but how is youknow?
How is that OK ultimately?
Donna Eade (42:39):
Mm.
Hmm, that's such a good onebecause that's exactly what
happened to me this morning,actually is that I was working
on something.
I had planned that I was goingto edit a couple of podcasts and
from nine until one, I had acall with somebody.
This issue of you know, thingsneeding to be done by this
(43:01):
deadline came up, so I had to dosomething for that.
I had to update a website link.
I had to create a social mediapost.
That needed to get done.
I got locked out of LinkedIn.
Oh, my goodness, like.
It turned around and said you'vebeen using third party browser
extensions that we don't like,and I'm like what?
I'm not using anything.
(43:21):
So I had all this go on and Igot to one o'clock, which is
obviously an hour before we'resitting down speaking, and I was
like I haven't edited onepodcast.
What on earth?
What have I been doing for thelast four hours?
It was absolutely insane.
And then I wrote it all downand I was like oh, oh, okay,
that equates.
That makes sense, you know,because I was like there are
(43:42):
days when I sit here and Itwiddle my thumbs and I really
should be working and I'mscrolling on my phone and I'm
whatsapping the family.
And you know, it's just one ofthose days where where nothing
really gets done and I know it,at the end of the day, I'm like,
yeah, I spent a lot of timeprocrastinating today, but today
I was like I I've been doing,I've like not looked at my phone
(44:02):
, this is weird.
Oliver Cooke (44:04):
And then, and then I wrote it down, I was like, oh
okay, yeah, that that's, thatmakes sense yeah, I don't think
that's that that's like such agood sort of practice to get
into you and just noticing like,uh, that's why, because so
often I think it just goesunacknowledged and then it
becomes this thing that's justsort of like almost like festers
in the mind.
It's like it's like yeah,exactly, and um, yeah, that that
(44:28):
can then be a very unpleasantexperience.
So, and also energy then going,you know mental energy then
going to thinking, oh well, Ishould have done this and I
should have done that and andthat's also tiring it's pulling
kind of like resources away fromwhat's possible to do now and
or even like rest and doingthings in the evening perhaps
(44:49):
that support the like longevityof working in your business yeah
, yeah, yeah, amazing, amazing.
Donna Eade (44:57):
So, moving on to productivity, is there something
that you do to help you in theday to stay on task?
Is there anything that you cangive to the audience that might
give them a?
Give them a.
Oh, I've not tried that before.
Oliver Cooke (45:12):
What do I do?
I think one thing that I reallylike to do I don't think this
is a particularly like new thingfor most people, but I'll just
like listen to like brown noise,which really helps me, just
like focus in on what I'm doing,and, yeah, I don't know why
that really helps me.
Donna Eade (45:28):
OK, so for people who don't know, because I've
heard of white noise what'sbrown noise?
Oliver Cooke (45:34):
Oh yeah, oh, if you haven't listened to the two,
they're like they're a littlebit different.
Brown noise is kind of deeper.
It's got like a deeper sound toit.
I just find it a little bitclears away some of the mind
stuff and just like keeps mereally like focused on what I'm
doing.
And I'll I'll usually where,where it makes sense, I'll kind
of block my time into, like youknow, doing the same type of
(45:56):
tasks.
Yeah, because I think you knowthe whole like switching between
tasks can be really timeconsuming, as you kind of then
get distracted and then go backto that and yeah.
So those couple of things, aswell as just reclarifying what
are those things that reallymake sense today, like what do I
want to get done?
(46:16):
And yeah, I've definitely beenon a whole journey with this
over over my business and,seeing it from like the
perspective of strategically,what are those things that make
most sense to get done, ratherthan just like what's going to
feel like I'm taking the mostaction, like rowing the hardest,
it's like no, no, but actually,you know, and often what I
found, unfortunately, is thosethings are the scariest things a
(46:40):
lot of the time, and so it'sit's also asking you know what
am I doing today?
That's actually like scary.
Donna Eade (46:48):
Yeah, yeah, that does make sense.
That does make sense.
So what is the thing that youare doing at the moment that is
working in terms of buildingyour audience?
I think that's something peopleare struggling with right now.
I think people have turnedaround and said to me I've heard
it a lot at the moment thatInstagram isn't performing the
way it was and people don'treally know why they're not
(47:09):
getting the engagement they oncegot.
You know, facebook's all noisy,blah, blah, blah blah.
So there's lots of things thatgo on that sort of knock us off
our feet when it comes tobuilding our audience.
But what's one of the thingsthat you're seeing success with
when it comes to building youraudience?
Oliver Cooke (47:24):
so I don't know like what sort of stage somebody
is at you know, I'm sure allsorts of stages when they're
listening, um.
And but one thing that I foundguest training in in people's
kind of like programs I found islike a really useful way to
actually get in front of it whenit's a complimentary thing to
(47:44):
what you're offering as well.
I think it can be a reallymutually beneficial way to reach
people who are like at thatstage where they're kind of like
ready for that type of work.
And yeah, I've done I've donekind of a number of those in the
last few months and I foundthat like the type of people who
find me are actually likereally, you know, they're sort
(48:06):
of really ready for this type ofwork.
They're like, yeah, like youknow what you're doing, really,
uh, resonated with me.
Donna Eade (48:11):
You know this is where I'm at, and so I think
that would probably be like mysort of number one, I think yeah
um, yeah, that's a really goodone, because I think, uh, I've
just been doing some uh workrecently on account-based
marketing and, for those of youwho aren't aware of what that is
, it's basically looking for theclients that you want to work
(48:33):
with and gearing all of yourmarketing towards just them
literally just them.
So it's more used in sort ofcorporate.
So if I wanted Coca-Cola to bemy client, all of my marketing
would be focused on how do I getCoca-Cola to buy my thing?
So what is Coca-Cola'spriorities?
What do they want to see fromthe products that I'm selling?
(48:55):
What are they going to want toknow about it?
What?
What is going to?
What are they doing in theirbusiness at the moment that I
can help with that?
This product will help them withand focusing it on that, and
it's a lot more work, I think,in terms of the thinking around
it, because you're so, sohyper-niched into it.
(49:16):
However, the reward for a bigclient like that on your books
versus, you know, a smatteringof little people, would be a
huge win for you.
So I think, in the same way,doing this, like creating a
training or something, is a lotmore hard work than it is to put
(49:36):
a social media post out.
However, you're going into acomplimentary group, like you
said.
I mean, the audience has tomake sense of people that are
much more likely to buy from youthan random strangers on the
internet that are going to findyour Instagram account, so
therefore, it's more work.
However, the reward is likelyto be higher because of the type
(49:59):
of people that you're reachingin there, and I think that's
something that we often overlook.
We see is, oh, that's going tobe too much work, but if the
audience is right, it can have amuch better return on your
investment right, really good,yeah, and it's.
Oliver Cooke (50:15):
It's also.
It's also leveraged as well inways that perhaps sometimes the
social media posts you just postit once and never repurpose it
or something.
Yeah, it's, if you, if you makea training that would also work
in other people's, you know itcan also be leveraged in that
sense you make it and then maybeyou know you still have to
deliver it, but at least you'vekind of mapped it out.
You've got some kind of likecore um things that you're
teaching that you can use againyeah, absolutely fantastic.
Donna Eade (50:38):
Right now we move on to my very, very quick fire
round, because we I know that weare running over time it's been
a really good conversation, sowhat is the?
Podcast that you're lovingright now yeah, this, this one's
actually like.
Oliver Cooke (50:49):
I'm like oh, this is such a generic answer, but
actually it's diary of a ceo, alot of people say it and I think
it's the one that gets peopleinto podcasting, so I'm not bad
about it yeah, yeah, of courseI've listened to.
You know various different ones.
It's just they've beenparticularly, they've been like
some kind of episodes aroundfear.
I really find anything on thetopic of fear interesting.
Because of my personal journeywith like anxiety and what I
(51:12):
support my clients with, I'malways looking to be like, oh so
how did they overcome this and,from what I understand, why did
that work, you know, and so I'mdrawn to that sort of stuff, so
I find it really fascinating.
Donna Eade (51:27):
Yeah.
Oliver Cooke (51:29):
What's the book that's made the biggest impact
on your life so far?
I think it would be 4,000 Weeksby Oliver.
Donna Eade (51:33):
Berkman, I don't know if you've read that, no.
Oliver Cooke (51:35):
I've not heard that one.
It's really flips some thingson its head when it comes to
like.
Donna Eade (51:39):
Oh, is that like how long most people live?
Yeah, yeah.
Oliver Cooke (51:47):
So it's quite, it's pretty confronting, yeah to
to hear it that way.
But it's also the way that heuh sort of puts that to your
advantage and the way that heframes it and the way that he
gets you to kind of see that asactually as such a benefit is
very different to what I thinkmost people would guess before
reading it.
And so you know he'sessentially saying things like
you'll, you'll miss out on right, be okay with that.
(52:08):
You know, what are the choicesthat give you meaning?
Like, what are those choices?
What are those things you'redoing with your life that
actually do give meaning?
What matters?
You know, focus on that,because you will miss out on
many things, you know.
And yeah, I just think it's areally interesting book.
Donna Eade (52:20):
Yeah, fabulous.
We'll have that linked on mybookshelf, guys if you want to
go and check it out?
Um, and then what's your go-tosnack when you're in a hurry?
Oliver Cooke (52:28):
uh, so I'm I'm kind of weird when it comes to
like snacks.
I really like fruit, so applesI probably apple, but I also
like dark chocolate like 90.
So those two snacks andactually anything salt and
vinegar flavoured is pretty goodfor me.
Donna Eade (52:44):
Yeah, okay.
And what is your ultimate metime thing to do?
Oliver Cooke (52:51):
Long walks, yeah, just walks, where I either
listen to podcasts, listen toaudio books or just nothing and
just kind of, like you know,more mindful walks.
That's what I really like to dofor myself.
Donna Eade (53:05):
Love that, love that .
Well.
Thank you so much for your timetoday, ollie.
It's been a fantasticconversation.
I hope you've enjoyed it.
Guys, don't forget to go andconnect with Ollie on his
website and on his Instagram,and we will see you in another
episode real soon.
Bye for now.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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