June 25, 2025 • 41 mins
In this episode, Elena Apalkova talks with Bertie Stephens about tackling climate change and plastic waste. They explore the scale of plastic production, recycling limitations, and Clean Planet Group's innovative solutions. The discussion highlights the crucial role of regulation, government support, and public advocacy in shaping environmental policies. Bertie also shares efforts in environmental education through books and "Hapsy" comics for youth, as well as the novel "Element and the Material Matter." The conversation balances idealism with pragmatism, empowering listeners to take action. The episode ends with a call to action.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
Hello.
Welcome to Mindset two results.
Today, our guest is Bertie Stefan, and he's CEOof Clean Clean Planet Group.
We will speak about ecology situation and, howwe can raise our awareness, especially people
(00:26):
who are business owners, entrepreneurs, how wecan all participate in raising awareness about
situation.
And, we will discuss this topic becauseeveryone matters.
Everyone can make something to make our planeta better place, only for ourselves, but for our
(00:47):
children and future generations.
Hi, Bertie.
Hi.
How are you?
Thank you so much for being guest in ourpodcast, and I am looking forward for this so
important discussion which we are going to havetoday.
Of course.
Well, thank you for having me.
It's always appreciated.
Most welcome.
Tell us, please, about your mission becauseyou're really on a mission, and, you're so
(01:12):
dedicated to raise awareness and also not justraise awareness, about this situation, but also
take so huge actions to help people tounderstand that we are only ones who can help
our planet to be a better place.
(01:33):
No.
That that's right.
And I think I think you've nailed it straightaway with those two differences there because a
lot of people think that purely raisingawareness is enough.
But I think we're at a stage now where it'sit's raising awareness and taking action.
And I and I think that's a mindset whicheveryone needs to start thinking about, that
(01:54):
everyone is quite aware.
Obviously, it depends on your age.
So as you go down to the younger audience, youknow, awareness is is is is really important.
But as you get to a point in time where you canbe making a difference or or you can be taking
some action, and that can come in differentforms, we can discuss about that.
I think when it comes to looking at theenvironment of the world and and how that's
(02:16):
changing through, you know, man madeconsequences, taking action now is is
incredibly important.
And I think that just, you know, taking youback to what Clean Planet Group is all about.
You know, we we look at two fundamentaldifferent problems.
One is climate change with with carbon.
(02:36):
But secondly, I I think more prominently in ourin our mission, it's plastic waste.
And it's it's a really interesting discussionpoint when you talk to people about those two
different areas.
Because climate change, global warming,whatever whatever you want to call it, is is
something which, you know, be it net zero or oror various other targets, people talk about a
(02:58):
lot.
And and people it's in the news a lot, and andpeople are aware of it.
But, also, because I think because it has thissuch wide discourse going it's it's for some
reason, it's debated a lot.
You know, there is depending on where you go inthe world, there is a lot of debate about, you
know, is are is it human led?
You know, can can we stop it?
Can we change it?
(03:19):
Are we really impacting it?
Which is which is very interesting because alot of that discussion isn't based on any
science.
It's it's based, I I think, more on fear thatthat we can't actually change it.
So isn't it better to suggest that we're notresponsible for it in the first place?
So that and that's a really interestingmindset.
But but it becomes more fascinating when youget onto plastic waste because everyone knows
(03:40):
that plastic did not exist before humans.
We we are responsible for plastic.
Plastic is an oil derived product.
So you you dig oil from the ground, and youturn that through various forms of refining
into into plastic.
So because that didn't exist before we're here,the concept of plastic waste means that it it
can't be anything other than human lead.
(04:03):
And and therefore, the amount of plastic wastewe, you know, a little bit later, we can go
into the numbers.
We can go into the statistics about plasticwaste.
But when you talk about plastic waste topeople, there's there's no there's no there's
no debate.
There's no discussion.
People are saying, yes.
Plastic waste is human led.
Plastic waste is bad when it's unmanaged.
And and that's a really interestingconversation we have when we talk to people,
(04:29):
you know, outside the company and and when whenwe talk on, you know, at events and podcasts
like this is no one debates plastic waste is abad thing, unmanaged plastic waste.
No one debates that it wasn't human led.
So so, therefore, it's actually quite a nicediscussion because then you can start really
quickly getting on to what what can you do,what can be done.
(04:50):
And compared to when you talk climate changewhere you first many times have to start with
the debate about is it a problem in the firstplace?
Yes.
Yes.
Definitely.
And plastic consumption becomes bigger andbigger.
Yes.
People just think about convenience.
They think what is convenient today, but notmany people think about the future.
(05:14):
And they really want to acknowledge you thatyou have so, like, high level of awareness, and
you feel that this is a really big problem.
And, we have to do something today because, ifnothing is done, just, it will be hurting,
yeah, everyone.
And as you said, 91% of plastic cannot be,like, what you determine you said.
(05:41):
Well, let's let's go through the facts becauseI I think I think I think a lot of people
aren't aware of of the scale of plastic waste.
People have their recycling bins at home.
When they go out to restaurants, they can seeit's divided sometimes between paper, plastic,
and and other waste.
They put it in there.
Great.
I've done my recycling.
The world is a better place.
And I'm in no way gonna start in any way,shape, or form saying that don't do your
(06:04):
recycling at home, but let's let's look at thereality of the situation.
As you just said that, ninety one percent ofall plastics that you consume in in in your in
your environment will not get recycled.
Even if they've got recycled on on thepackaging or something like that, there's a
very good chance because they get dirty or orsomething else like that that they will go into
(06:26):
landfill or incineration or or or somethinglike that.
So so so there's the first startling point.
The one in 10 items are only getting recycled.
But how does that go onto a bigger scale?
So we as humans will produce over 400,000,000tons of plastic every single year.
And and if you think about the weight of a ton,if you can, a thousand kilograms, and then
(06:56):
think about how light your plastic film is whenyou put that over your your food or something,
you can suddenly start to understand simply howmuch a, you know, 400,000,000 tons is.
And if you then start to imagine that only, youknow, 9% of that roughly is ever gonna get
recycled.
(07:16):
Where is all the rest going?
So landfills.
Sure.
Then there's looking at the incinerationenvironment.
We'll come back to we'll we'll come back toincineration later, but then, obviously, the
environment, as I said.
And environment is the part where it getsreally tricky for us because you can put
something in the bin that can go to a landfill,can get shipped abroad or or something else
(07:39):
like that.
It can then come out of that into the rivers.
Those rivers flow to oceans and suddenly findyourself with close to 10,000,000 tons, that is
the is the latest estimate, of plastic wasteentering our oceans every single year.
That plastic then starts to break down.
(08:00):
And, yes, you learned at school that plastictakes, you know, hundreds of years to to break
down, but it doesn't just disappear.
It breaks down into smaller parts.
So suddenly you have, well, what they estimatenow, something in the region of a
171,000,000,000,000 pieces of plastic in ouroceans.
And that is all through the mismanagement ofplastic waste.
(08:22):
And I I think this is another thing that weneed to take a step back on and and just think
about for a second.
Plastic inherently is not bad.
In fact, plastic itself is is actually verygood.
You have you have hospitals which rely onplastic.
If if someone goes to A and E and they need anemergency operation, they live because of
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plastic.
So plastic itself is not bad.
Plastic can you know, if you if you imagineonce upon especially in The UK where where
where I where I'm from, once upon a time, wehad milk floats delivering milk around.
I think that's a good example.
And even today, you know, your milk will betransported from the from the farms to the
factories to the factories to the shops.
(09:08):
If they got transported in glass bottles, thatglass is incredibly heavy, and that requires a
significant amount of energy then to take thoseplastic around.
So by putting it into plastic, brilliant.
It's lighter.
Suddenly, you have a lot less energy required.
And if it's being run on a on a fossil fuel,then you put a lot less fossil fuels required
to transport it.
(09:28):
As we get into renewable transport mechanisms,then, you know, that potentially comes at
lesser problem, but we're not there.
So so you're you're in a situation where peoplethink because people talk about plastic being
bad, the plastic is bad.
Plastic isn't bad.
Plastic is one of the most transformativematerials that we've ever invented.
(09:50):
The fact that you can have a car drive isbecause a lot of the interior is made out of
plastic because it's light and therefore lowenergy.
So what is bad?
Unmanaged plastic waste.
And this is where we get to the problem.
We as humans have invented this incredibleproduct, but what we have not done properly is
invented how we solve this problem, how we howhow we sort its waste.
(10:14):
There are ways to recycle.
You do have a recycling bin.
Can put it in the recycling bin, and whattraditionally there is is something called
mechanical recycling.
So they'll take that waste plastic.
Yeah.
Go into a shop and buy a drink bottle, a waterbottle.
That is called that is one of the grades ofplastic.
Grade number one is called PET.
And PET can really be easily recycled.
(10:36):
So they can take that water bottle.
They can grind it up.
They can melt it down, and they can make itback into new PET or or other plastics.
It has a limitation.
After a certain while, it becomes weaker.
The structure the integrity of the structurebecomes a little bit weaker.
But still, for the most part, you can recyclethat plastic.
But then you have all the other grades ofplastic.
You have HDP, LVPA, and and p PVC.
(10:57):
And they become increasingly hard to recycle tosome degree.
And, also, mechanical recycling, the the mainrecycling process that we have today, that is
something that requires a really, really cleanplastic.
So either they have to wash it or they rejectit.
And that's a big problem.
(11:17):
The mechanical cycling could theoretically takea little bit more plastic than it does today if
it was 100% clean, 100% pure.
But your yogurt pot that you throw out, even ifyou've given it a nice rinse, will probably
have yogurt stains over it.
They can do an industrial clean on it, butthat's energy intensive, uses a lot of water,
very costly.
So economically, then it comes into the economyof things.
(11:37):
Does it make sense to recycle it?
Well, depends where you are.
In in The USA, for example, there's asignificant amount of land and space.
So companies will find that they will muchprefer just to chuck something into a landfill
for a few dollars a ton than actually gothrough the process of recycling.
(11:58):
So, you know, that sets out from a mindsetpoint of view exactly how big this problem is,
which can hopefully lead us into the process ofwhat can we do to from a mindset to solve it.
Yes.
And, can you please tell the solution?
What's your solution?
How you see that, how this problem can besolved?
(12:20):
And Of course.
Necessary for that?
Of course.
So I'll I'll tell you from Clean Planet Group.
So Clean Planet Group, we have three divisions.
We have energy, technologies, and foundation.
So we have Clean Planet Energy, Clean PlanetTechnologies, and Clean Planet Foundation.
They all do something different when it comesto the mindset of of solving the plastic waste
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crisis.
I'll start with energy because that's that'sthat's that's from a scientific technically
standpoint very interesting.
Plastic is, as I said earlier, dug up from theground as as oil and refined into plastic.
So what that means is plastic is oil,ultimately, in a in a different chemical
(13:05):
structure, different chemical form.
And and what is oil?
It's hydrocarbons.
So hydrocarbon bonds bound together.
And if you look at what plastic is, plastic isjust long hydrocarbon bonds.
So in order to try and recycle the types ofplastic that you can't traditionally recycle
with mechanical recycling, the way we look atit is to chemically adjust those hydrocarbon
(13:30):
bonds.
And the way we can do it is through a processinitially called paralysis.
And and on the outset, it's it's very simple.
Our our chief technology officer, doctor AndrewRoger, would probably scowl at me for saying
that.
But but but but to explain it, it can beexplained quite simply.
If you heat up plastic to around 400 degreescentigrade in a vacuum, so there's no flame,
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there's no incineration here, it's it's it's anantioxidant chamber, so there's there's there's
no fire happening, and then use a chemicalcatalyst, those hydrocarbon bonds will start
breaking apart into much smaller bonds.
And if you have really short bonds, middlebonds, or long bonds, you have the difference
between a gas, a liquid, and a solid.
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So first of all, you vaporize it all into gas.
Everything goes into a gas, and then you startcooling, condensing it back down into different
chains.
Some of it will stay out of gas.
We'll go back to that in a second.
And some of it will go into liquid, and a tinybit of it will then stay as solid as well.
That liquid is then an oil which you can use toremake plastics again.
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It's ultimately a circular recycle.
So rather than than having to go back out intothe middle of the ocean or into the middle of
the land somewhere and finding an oil reserveto dig up new oil to make new plastics again,
that oil can be used to make that plastic.
And what that means is you are savingsignificant carbon emissions on that whole life
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cycle of process.
So that's how we, in Clean Planet Energy, whichis one of the divisions, start looking at the
mindset of solving this plastic waste problem.
We aren't in a position to deal, and we'll geton to regulation how how you can help, you
know, if you if you're not running a businesson it.
We're not in a position to necessarily dealwith the fact that people are gonna be chucking
(15:21):
out this plastic waste, and we can't be in aposition to say, you shouldn't be using this
plastic waste.
But what we can start looking from mindset is,okay.
This waste exists.
How can we deal with this waste?
So so that's what we look at.
We we we we put we build these large facilitiesset over roughly eight to 10 acres of land, and
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they can take tens of thousands of tons ofplastic every single year.
And they can convert them back into this oil,and that oil can go back into the refineries
and be made into plastic again.
Because as I plastic is plastic can be greatfor the world.
Plastic is lifesaving.
So we want we need plastic.
What we don't need is the plastic waste, and weneed a waste recycler.
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The gas I talked about earlier is also veryinteresting too.
So the gas can be used to power the facilityitself.
It's a syngas.
It's it's something which you can use as anenergy form.
So you've suddenly have within just thisplastic piece itself, 70% of it going into oil,
a little bit going into solid, and and the restof it then being used to actually power the
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energy.
So we're not taking energy from the grid or oror or needing something else that for that
particular process.
So that's one way we believe you can startdealing with it, through Clean Planet Energy.
And I think then when you start looking attechnologies, which is our middle arm, that's
the r and d arms.
That's the research and development.
So that looks at how we can take it intodifferent ways.
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So there is a way to take that plastic wastethat we have and turn that into SAF, which is
sustainable aviation fuel, which is what willallow you to go to a holiday to Spain or to
Mexico depending on, you know, wherever youlike to go to holiday and fly on a plane that
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is being used on a circular or low carbonproduct depending on how how you look at it,
which means, again, new oil doesn't have to bedug up from the ground.
So that that's the second mindset we're doing.
It's like, can you hey.
You've got the circular option.
Is there an option to take to to to addressanother one of the world's key problems here,
which is which is, you know, carbon emissionsfrom from aviation?
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And then that would lead us onto the finalthing.
It's like, well, what can you, as a mindset, doat home as well?
Yes.
Yes.
Such a great solution, and it can be done.
Yes.
It can be done, and, it just needs awarenessand support from starting from governments.
Yes, and then companies who are involved inrecycling.
(17:50):
So what do you do now to get, people attention?
And, do you get any government support?
Because it can start from, like, higher levels,yes, and then to down levels.
So everyone can be just not aware of this, andthere can be solutions, provided.
(18:12):
Okay.
So let's divide that into two parts.
There's the what can what can what can you doat home, I guess, to some degree, and what
should be done for that.
So let's start in reverse order.
What needs to happen?
Regulation.
That's that's really it.
That that really changes it.
Because if economically let let's take America,for example.
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Because America is a really interesting placeto look at when it comes to plastic waste.
Because there's significant amounts of plasticwaste in America.
But what is the incentive to recycle it?
If, as I mentioned earlier, it is cheaper tothrow something into a landfill, why would you
(18:55):
look at recycling it?
Now there are a number of great companies outthere that have, you know, environmental
sustainability as their as their core aim.
Brilliant.
Where they struggle and where you've seenstruggling in in in you know, over the last six
to eight months, there's been a there's been aturn in The USA that has looked towards fossil
(19:16):
fuel a little bit more.
There's been, you know, there's been a asetback on regulations and those sorts of
things.
And one of the one of the key concerns that thecompanies that have, you know, sustainability,
green environment as their core mantra is, whentheir investors look down on them and their
investors look down on them and say, how are wedoing financially, which is regrettably a numb
(19:43):
the the key metric that number of investorswill always look at, They'll always look at
comparisons to competitors.
And if their competitors are making thingscheaper by putting things into landfill and
those sorts of things, then, well, they'rethey're they'll get a lot of pressure to relax
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some of those company pillars that they havefrom mindset point of view.
And how do they as the leadership team who whowho want to drive that, how do they counter
that?
So in the EU, there is a significant amount ofregulation in place already.
EU and UK, I'll say for now, already, and alsoones coming into place.
(20:30):
For example, let's take The UK, for example.
There's the plaque packaging plastic packagingtax.
The pack plastic packaging tax is a tax.
That means that if you are someone who producesor is responsible for a significant amount of
plastic packaging waste, you will be penalizedfor that if it's not going into a recyclable
way, which means those companies, suddenly, allof them are on the same level playing field.
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They all have to look at it together and thinkabout how we're gonna deal with this plastic
packaging waste.
And suddenly then, it means innovation andsolutions are derived.
So whilst we, as a company ourselves, don'ttake in grants from the government directly in
(21:16):
our business model, they can benefit us too.
So because a company may suddenly realize thatat a certain time and date, I'll be penalized
if I'm not doing something with this plasticwaste, if I send it to landfill, Then they're
turning to companies that can do the recycling.
And suddenly, you find is a huge amount ofinnovation is growing in in in in recycling.
(21:38):
So that allows the that that to grow.
And, you know, at the at the end of the day, weare a business, and we will make money from the
process we undertake so that can pleaseinvestors.
But at the same time, it can do things whichare incredibly positive for the world and the
environment that that we sit in.
(21:58):
So if we know now that regulation can work, whodrives regulation?
Well, what people will normally come to say isgovernments drive regulation.
Yes.
They do.
But governments are, probably for lack of abetter word, fickle.
Governments will go by what they can think theycan get away with and what they think will be
(22:23):
popular.
And that, at the final point, is where you stepin.
In the Clean Planet Foundation, the what we dothere is a not for profit, and we are enabled
to we we enable ourselves to undertakeactivities which don't necessarily have to make
money but can drive areas of awareness andpeople taking action.
(22:49):
We can talk in a moment about some of theprojects we have at the Clean Planet Foundation
about how we do that.
But what it boils down to is that if youbelieve, truly, the plastic waste is a problem,
which I've yet to find someone who has saidthey disagree with that, unlike the climate
change unfounded debate, then you need to betelling people that can make the difference
(23:16):
that things need to change.
That's how it happens.
People will sit at home and put things in theirrecycling bin, looping around to how we
started.
Great.
Continue doing that.
Don't stop that.
Getting things in the recycling bin do doesstop a process later down the chain of
separating it from the landfill.
(23:36):
However, many councils will still sift throughthe landfill waste to try and remove the
recyclables, the metals, the plastics, and andthe woods, etcetera.
But you separating it out will help, socontinue doing that.
But it's nowhere near enough.
If you believe as a business owner, as anentrepreneur, as a just someone at home that
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this is a problem that needs doing, then yourmindset needs to change on making that aware.
And that's where sort of entrepreneurialadvocacy comes in.
You need to be telling those that matters,whether it's your local MP in in in in The UK,
whether it's your senator in The USA or youryour congressman some somewhere else.
(24:20):
You need to be letting them know that thatmatters.
Because if they start seeing that they're gonnalose vote, lose funding, then they will start
making a difference.
And the difference they can make can can thenflip right back around and actually drive
change by implementing the regulations.
If they put regulations in such as the plasticpackaging tax and others which are are being
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implemented or have been implemented already,then suddenly, companies will loop right around
and suddenly have to drive innovation and makechange, and you will be responsible for that.
So that is the biggest thing you can be doingat home.
People often ask me, like, what's a smallpractical thing I could do?
I just wanna sit at home, and I wanna dosomething nice and practical.
(25:08):
And and it's a very tough one on this subjectbecause yeah.
Yeah.
Do your recycling.
Of course.
It won't make a it won't make a big difference.
Like, it will make a bit of a difference, but,yeah, it's not gonna make a material change.
If that's the mindset you're gonna the mindsetneeds to be make sure the people that can
implement the regulations, make implement therules, make a difference.
Or if you are buying from a, you know, supplierthat everything comes wrapped in plastic waste,
(25:35):
you know, simply ask them.
Well, what's your what's your what's yourpolicy on on the on the plastic waste?
How do you deal with it?
Because the more people that ask them, the morethey're gonna have to come up with a pretty
good answer if their custom if their customerare asking them.
And and we were speaking recently, we werespeaking to a USA, you know, major soft drink
company.
And they were saying that, well, no.
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We don't have any regulation in this particulararea to deal with, you know, the plastic waste
we're generating on the films that go aroundour bottles, but our customers are asking for
it.
And because our customers are asking for it, weneed to do something to show them we're making
a difference.
And that there alone, just literally picking upthe phone and it's this whole entrepreneurial
advocacy.
Pick out the phone to your supplier and saying,look.
(26:17):
Like, I'm I'm make it up if you want to.
Do it properly if you want to.
Pick up the phone saying, listen.
I've I've been told by my boss.
You know?
I've been told by my board that I've got tojust have a good understanding now about where,
you know, the plastic waste, how you deal withthat internally.
If you how all our suppliers deal with it justso we have an understanding.
If they don't have a good answer for it, thentwo, three, four, or five of their customers
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pick it up, someone in that company who'sgetting those concepts is gonna go up the chain
and go, we probably need an answer for this.
And maybe, initially, that answer will be, youknow, greenwashing to some degree.
It'll be, you know, okay.
We have a policy.
We do great things, but, anyways.
But the more it happens, the the more itoccurs, and the more people press on it,
(26:58):
suddenly, they'll start needing to to actuallymake a bit of a difference there.
So that, from a mind's point, is how you canstart actually making a a real change here.
And then, you know, and then, obviously, we cantalk about how we do it from a younger age and
and going up as well.
Yes.
Yes.
It is really everyone's responsibility becausethis planet is everyone's home, and we just
(27:23):
cannot ignore this problem.
And, also, we can teach children is to beresponsible for ecology.
And, I really, was very impressed, like, withso big, huge range of ages which you even
considered in what you do.
(27:45):
So can you please tell about the books andcomic journals which you publish?
Yes.
Of course.
So, the Clean Planet Foundation, as I saidearlier, has this wonderful ability to
undertake projects which can educate and takeaction and can be a little different from from
the corporate world.
So we have we have two really fun areas that wehave would help drive that awareness initially
(28:14):
and also then show people how show show youngeraudience how to take action.
So one of them is a comic book series calledHapsy.
And for those of you who are watching visually,I've got one copy here.
For those of you at home, it's if you're in TheUK, it's a bit it's a bit like the Bino.
If you're in The US, it's it's it's a, youknow, it's a colorful comic strip magazine.
(28:36):
It pick up a Superman or a Spider Man comic,and and you'll you'll have, you know, comic
strips in there, lots of different characters,games.
There's there's activities through through.
So, you know, some of the characters we have.
Ignorant Ike.
So she's a young girl who's very ignorant aboutthe world.
Lucas Litter, loves to drop litter.
Greedy Greg, one of the adult characters in thebook, he's he loves the he loves to be green,
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but the green here is money, not not beinggreen itself.
And it's all about how he takes shortcuts inhis business to go that.
It's lighthearted.
It's fun.
It's it always has a message.
You know, it's the comic book for budding ecowarriors.
It always has a message.
Then you have add action.
She loves to take action.
And and every month, we have, we have actionchallenge where we we look at one area of of of
(29:26):
the environment of the world today about, youknow, how you can actually make a difference.
Go out there and do something to make adifference.
And and and it's it's really popular.
We have we have 10 we have close to 10,000young people who who who enjoy Hapsy on the on
the print version and and obviously more onlineas well.
There's there's over 350 episodes of comicstrips online you can just watch for free if
(29:48):
you wanna get understand it and know it.
And, you know, that age range is it's probablythere for about the seven to 11 year old.
And it allows it allows an outing your audienceto to start just keeping it as part of their
early mindset.
You know?
The one thing we've learned is that, you know,young people are brilliant when it comes to
this.
They they they they've grown up into the world.
(30:09):
You know?
They they they they've grown up in a world thathas plastic pollution.
It's not new to them.
In the same way that, depending on your age,some of you grew up in a world that had, you
know, threats of nuclear war or or threats ofthe ozone layer.
Yeah.
Those are things.
Their their threats ultimately, in addition to,you know, the changing climate, is is is
plastic waste.
And and and, you Hapsee looks at all differentareas for this climate change, whether it's
(30:30):
whether it's plastic waste.
But but it it doesn't preach.
It's it's meant to make it enjoyable, but atthe same time, keep having a message.
So if, you know, if you're a parent and and youwant something that that is silly, it's fun,
but has a has a baseline of education to it,then we find that the the monthly hapsy comics
have have gone down really well with youngpeople.
So so that that's kind of our earliest ageintroduction.
(30:53):
We then have a recent released novel, which is,again, for for those at home, you can see it.
For those on audio, I'll it.
It's called element and the Material Matter.
It's a 70,000 word so a full novel, 300 pagesnovel about and, actually, it stems from one of
(31:14):
the characters in the Hapsey comics.
But you you don't need to have read the comics.
It's it's a standalone.
It's it's noncanon.
It's the comics.
It's a complete different.
And Ellie Ment is an 11 year old scientist.
She she absolutely loves science, and shedoesn't believe in magic.
And and and this is the and this is the wholething that, you know, Eddie doesn't believe in
(31:35):
magic.
She believes in science, but science is magic.
And and that's I think, you know, especially ifwe have a team of engineers here at the Clean
Planet group, that's one of the things wereally wanted to to get across.
You know, if you look at if you look at middlegrade fantasy books today, you know, whether
that's Percy Jackson about gods, about HarryPotter, or it's about magic, You can go on and
(31:58):
on and on.
There's magical schools in the clouds.
There's there's magic here.
There's magic there.
But the world is magical enough.
You know, if you step outside and look around,it is magical enough.
So what Eli meant in the material matter doesis it takes that charm of of children's fantasy
and keeps it in the real world, keeps it linkedto science.
(32:24):
Ellie loves science, and and she suddenly sopart of the premise is that her she suddenly
is, you know, mentored by her favorite scienceteacher, professor Fialova.
And and she she then has this ability tounderstand the world, experiment with the
(32:45):
world, go on adventures with the world, butit's all grounded in science.
And and this is sort of a so it's it's greatfor we we found, you know, sort of nine, ten
year olds up to well, up to adults, to beperfectly honest.
But, you know, it's it's that it's that nine,10 to sort of 15 year old, you know, is where
it's targeted originally.
(33:05):
It allows them to enjoy the world in adifferent way.
Go go on those adventures that get lost in getlost in a in a, you know, fictional world of
Hapsey, which is, you know, the town they livein.
But it's all set in the real world.
And and they they go on this adventure, and andEllie needs to you know, the the the premise of
(33:25):
the book initially is that she's out atmidnight doing a science experiment.
And she looks up, and her brand new school, theschool she's just about to start, is burning
down.
But the flames are colored purple, whichobviously is not traditional rather than orange
and red.
Like, why is this?
Why is the school burning down?
Why are those flames purple?
And it takes her on this journey where it couldalways lead to magic, but, actually, can she
(33:51):
solve it with science?
Can it exist in the real world?
And that's the adventure.
And and then we then because we focus onscience, it allows us to actually touch on
you're never heavy hitting, but it allows totouch on the another environmental problems of
today, plastic waste and and and those sorts ofthings as well.
And a big drive of this book is this is thispull push and pull between idealism and
(34:20):
pragmatism.
What should we be doing to solve the world ifyou didn't have to consider anything else?
Or what can we do to save the world if you dohave to consider things?
And this is the big challenge that I thinkyoung people have today is they know what needs
to be done, and they're screaming for whatneeds to be done.
(34:41):
But then the adults are saying, yeah.
But if we do that, then then the economy willgo smaller, and we will stop growing, and
inflation will rise.
And and then it goes back to the young peopleand saying, well, yeah.
Right.
But it's one planet as as as Elena, you saidyou said just a second ago.
It's it's it's one it's we've got one planethere.
(35:02):
And then they're like, yeah.
But we also need to live, we need to eat, andeveryone needs to be able to afford food.
And so and it is.
And and and it what is the right answer?
And we we try and explore that in a in a waythat, you know, fits with the with the age
range.
And I and I I say that loosely because I thinkone of the other things that, you know,
literature and TV and movies that are targetedtowards this sort of this age range tend to do
(35:23):
is they they try and simplify it too much forany younger audience where where a younger
audience are clever.
They know it.
They get it.
They they don't talk down to them.
Talk up to them.
Let them go along with the ride in a way thatis educating and they're learning, but at the
same time, they're saying, I get this.
So that that's the other thing the book triesto do.
(35:44):
So, you know, obviously, I'm biased, but I'mfrom the Clean Planner Foundation.
But if you if you have a seven to eleven yearold or or you know of one and you want to sort
of get them enjoying things in that respect,then then look at the Hapsey comics.
If you have a nine plus year old or you justwant to read a novel that doesn't have to focus
(36:08):
on magic to be fantasy, then I would I wouldrecommend getting yourself a copy at any
bookshop you want.
It's available quite wide of Element and thematerial matter because then that starts
educating on that.
But all of that links into this concept we weretalking about earlier, which is about this
mindset for activism.
It's about getting into your mindset that youcan make a difference.
(36:31):
You you can you you you cannot just do yourrecycling without having to spend without
having to go out and and be on a pro set aprotest or or or something like that.
You can start just a sim a simple phone call,an email to your supplier, a question at a q
and a town hall to representative, it'd getpeople thinking.
(36:51):
And if you want my advice, if you want to lookat the environment and you want people to start
making a difference, then look at the plasticwaste crisis because no one's gonna push back
on that.
If you stand up in a town hall or a q and awith your local member of parliament or or
whatever your your your democracy system is, ifyou stand up there and say, we need to reduce
(37:15):
this because it's gonna impact climate change,You will, somewhere in the audience, have
someone push back at you.
And it's frustrating.
It's annoying because they're they have sadlybeen led by disinformation and misinformation
about about that, but it exists.
But if you wanna cut through instantly and ifyou want a way that no one's gonna snort or
(37:38):
laugh or push back at you, if you want peopleto agree with you, and by that agreeing, it
suddenly means that the representative sat infront of you or the supplier down the road is
suddenly gonna take note, then focus on theplastic waste crisis because it is a crisis.
It is a problem.
A million seabirds die every single yearthrough plastic waste ingestion, and no one in
(38:02):
that audience will be able to push back.
Don't start saying ban plastic because plasticshouldn't be banned.
Plastic waste should be managed, and regulationshould be put in for that.
And that would be my advice on how to get thatmindset between you and your employees and just
people at home of how to move forward.
(38:24):
Yes.
Everyone can make difference.
Yes.
And I really appreciate for what you do.
And I have daughter.
She's 17, and she likes science.
So I definitely will, get copy of the book andmagazine because she also likes comics, and she
also thinks like, plans to even make comicsbecause she's very creative.
(38:46):
And so thank you so much for raising awarenessin our podcast, and it this discussion helped
me also to know more about the situationbecause people just busy with their in their
own things.
And it it is really important to stop and thinkoutside of box, yes, and think Exactly.
(39:14):
The things which, all of us can make adifference.
Yes.
So everyone who watching our video, you canjust make a small call, a small call to
companies producing, supplying plastic and askthem, what is your policy for recycling?
(39:34):
Yes.
And every if everyone will start thinking aboutthis and taking even one small step, it can
make a big difference.
And, of course, Betty, we have all con contactsand information, how you want people maybe to
contact or if they have any questions, how theycan support.
(39:57):
Or maybe you have community.
I think it would be great if you havecommunity.
So through community, you can suggest peoplewhat they can do because I am sure there are so
many people who want to help and want toparticipate.
And if they know exactly what to do and if youbuild that community, they will join.
(40:21):
And bigger community is bigger awareness, andpeople can start speaking about this, reading
books, suggesting book for kids, educating themfrom early age.
This is how the awareness will raise.
Yes.
And when awareness raise, when peopleunderstand this problem, this is how they can
start take actions.
(40:42):
Exactly.
A very good summary.
Thank you.
Yes.
So reach out to Bertie and, of course, getbooks, magazines for your children, and let's
do it together.
Thank you so much.
Yeah.
Thank you, Bertie.
You do such important, work for, everyone, formankind.
(41:04):
And, of course, all people, especiallyentrepreneurs, business owners who have impact
on their employees who create, companycultures, they can be really a great support to
make our planet a better place.
Perfect.
Thank you so much.
Yeah.
Thank you too, Bertie, and see you soon againon our further episodes.
(41:28):
I hope so.
Thank you so much.
Bye now.
You're welcome.
Bye.
Hello.
Welcome to Mindset two results.
Today, our guest is Bertie Stefan, and he's CEOof Clean Clean Planet Group.
We will speak about ecology situation and, howwe can raise our awareness, especially people
(00:26):
who are business owners, entrepreneurs, how wecan all participate in raising awareness about
situation.
And, we will discuss this topic becauseeveryone matters.
Everyone can make something to make our planeta better place, only for ourselves, but for our
(00:47):
children and future generations.
Hi, Bertie.
Hi.
How are you?
Thank you so much for being guest in ourpodcast, and I am looking forward for this so
important discussion which we are going to havetoday.
Of course.
Well, thank you for having me.
It's always appreciated.
Most welcome.
Tell us, please, about your mission becauseyou're really on a mission, and, you're so
(01:12):
dedicated to raise awareness and also not justraise awareness, about this situation, but also
take so huge actions to help people tounderstand that we are only ones who can help
our planet to be a better place.
(01:33):
No.
That that's right.
And I think I think you've nailed it straightaway with those two differences there because a
lot of people think that purely raisingawareness is enough.
But I think we're at a stage now where it'sit's raising awareness and taking action.
And I and I think that's a mindset whicheveryone needs to start thinking about, that
(01:54):
everyone is quite aware.
Obviously, it depends on your age.
So as you go down to the younger audience, youknow, awareness is is is is really important.
But as you get to a point in time where you canbe making a difference or or you can be taking
some action, and that can come in differentforms, we can discuss about that.
I think when it comes to looking at theenvironment of the world and and how that's
(02:16):
changing through, you know, man madeconsequences, taking action now is is
incredibly important.
And I think that just, you know, taking youback to what Clean Planet Group is all about.
You know, we we look at two fundamentaldifferent problems.
One is climate change with with carbon.
(02:36):
But secondly, I I think more prominently in ourin our mission, it's plastic waste.
And it's it's a really interesting discussionpoint when you talk to people about those two
different areas.
Because climate change, global warming,whatever whatever you want to call it, is is
something which, you know, be it net zero or oror various other targets, people talk about a
(02:58):
lot.
And and people it's in the news a lot, and andpeople are aware of it.
But, also, because I think because it has thissuch wide discourse going it's it's for some
reason, it's debated a lot.
You know, there is depending on where you go inthe world, there is a lot of debate about, you
know, is are is it human led?
You know, can can we stop it?
Can we change it?
(03:19):
Are we really impacting it?
Which is which is very interesting because alot of that discussion isn't based on any
science.
It's it's based, I I think, more on fear thatthat we can't actually change it.
So isn't it better to suggest that we're notresponsible for it in the first place?
So that and that's a really interestingmindset.
But but it becomes more fascinating when youget onto plastic waste because everyone knows
(03:40):
that plastic did not exist before humans.
We we are responsible for plastic.
Plastic is an oil derived product.
So you you dig oil from the ground, and youturn that through various forms of refining
into into plastic.
So because that didn't exist before we're here,the concept of plastic waste means that it it
can't be anything other than human lead.
(04:03):
And and therefore, the amount of plastic wastewe, you know, a little bit later, we can go
into the numbers.
We can go into the statistics about plasticwaste.
But when you talk about plastic waste topeople, there's there's no there's no there's
no debate.
There's no discussion.
People are saying, yes.
Plastic waste is human led.
Plastic waste is bad when it's unmanaged.
And and that's a really interestingconversation we have when we talk to people,
(04:29):
you know, outside the company and and when whenwe talk on, you know, at events and podcasts
like this is no one debates plastic waste is abad thing, unmanaged plastic waste.
No one debates that it wasn't human led.
So so, therefore, it's actually quite a nicediscussion because then you can start really
quickly getting on to what what can you do,what can be done.
(04:50):
And compared to when you talk climate changewhere you first many times have to start with
the debate about is it a problem in the firstplace?
Yes.
Yes.
Definitely.
And plastic consumption becomes bigger andbigger.
Yes.
People just think about convenience.
They think what is convenient today, but notmany people think about the future.
(05:14):
And they really want to acknowledge you thatyou have so, like, high level of awareness, and
you feel that this is a really big problem.
And, we have to do something today because, ifnothing is done, just, it will be hurting,
yeah, everyone.
And as you said, 91% of plastic cannot be,like, what you determine you said.
(05:41):
Well, let's let's go through the facts becauseI I think I think I think a lot of people
aren't aware of of the scale of plastic waste.
People have their recycling bins at home.
When they go out to restaurants, they can seeit's divided sometimes between paper, plastic,
and and other waste.
They put it in there.
Great.
I've done my recycling.
The world is a better place.
And I'm in no way gonna start in any way,shape, or form saying that don't do your
(06:04):
recycling at home, but let's let's look at thereality of the situation.
As you just said that, ninety one percent ofall plastics that you consume in in in your in
your environment will not get recycled.
Even if they've got recycled on on thepackaging or something like that, there's a
very good chance because they get dirty or orsomething else like that that they will go into
(06:26):
landfill or incineration or or or somethinglike that.
So so so there's the first startling point.
The one in 10 items are only getting recycled.
But how does that go onto a bigger scale?
So we as humans will produce over 400,000,000tons of plastic every single year.
And and if you think about the weight of a ton,if you can, a thousand kilograms, and then
(06:56):
think about how light your plastic film is whenyou put that over your your food or something,
you can suddenly start to understand simply howmuch a, you know, 400,000,000 tons is.
And if you then start to imagine that only, youknow, 9% of that roughly is ever gonna get
recycled.
(07:16):
Where is all the rest going?
So landfills.
Sure.
Then there's looking at the incinerationenvironment.
We'll come back to we'll we'll come back toincineration later, but then, obviously, the
environment, as I said.
And environment is the part where it getsreally tricky for us because you can put
something in the bin that can go to a landfill,can get shipped abroad or or something else
(07:39):
like that.
It can then come out of that into the rivers.
Those rivers flow to oceans and suddenly findyourself with close to 10,000,000 tons, that is
the is the latest estimate, of plastic wasteentering our oceans every single year.
That plastic then starts to break down.
(08:00):
And, yes, you learned at school that plastictakes, you know, hundreds of years to to break
down, but it doesn't just disappear.
It breaks down into smaller parts.
So suddenly you have, well, what they estimatenow, something in the region of a
171,000,000,000,000 pieces of plastic in ouroceans.
And that is all through the mismanagement ofplastic waste.
(08:22):
And I I think this is another thing that weneed to take a step back on and and just think
about for a second.
Plastic inherently is not bad.
In fact, plastic itself is is actually verygood.
You have you have hospitals which rely onplastic.
If if someone goes to A and E and they need anemergency operation, they live because of
(08:48):
plastic.
So plastic itself is not bad.
Plastic can you know, if you if you imagineonce upon especially in The UK where where
where I where I'm from, once upon a time, wehad milk floats delivering milk around.
I think that's a good example.
And even today, you know, your milk will betransported from the from the farms to the
factories to the factories to the shops.
(09:08):
If they got transported in glass bottles, thatglass is incredibly heavy, and that requires a
significant amount of energy then to take thoseplastic around.
So by putting it into plastic, brilliant.
It's lighter.
Suddenly, you have a lot less energy required.
And if it's being run on a on a fossil fuel,then you put a lot less fossil fuels required
to transport it.
(09:28):
As we get into renewable transport mechanisms,then, you know, that potentially comes at
lesser problem, but we're not there.
So so you're you're in a situation where peoplethink because people talk about plastic being
bad, the plastic is bad.
Plastic isn't bad.
Plastic is one of the most transformativematerials that we've ever invented.
(09:50):
The fact that you can have a car drive isbecause a lot of the interior is made out of
plastic because it's light and therefore lowenergy.
So what is bad?
Unmanaged plastic waste.
And this is where we get to the problem.
We as humans have invented this incredibleproduct, but what we have not done properly is
invented how we solve this problem, how we howhow we sort its waste.
(10:14):
There are ways to recycle.
You do have a recycling bin.
Can put it in the recycling bin, and whattraditionally there is is something called
mechanical recycling.
So they'll take that waste plastic.
Yeah.
Go into a shop and buy a drink bottle, a waterbottle.
That is called that is one of the grades ofplastic.
Grade number one is called PET.
And PET can really be easily recycled.
(10:36):
So they can take that water bottle.
They can grind it up.
They can melt it down, and they can make itback into new PET or or other plastics.
It has a limitation.
After a certain while, it becomes weaker.
The structure the integrity of the structurebecomes a little bit weaker.
But still, for the most part, you can recyclethat plastic.
But then you have all the other grades ofplastic.
You have HDP, LVPA, and and p PVC.
(10:57):
And they become increasingly hard to recycle tosome degree.
And, also, mechanical recycling, the the mainrecycling process that we have today, that is
something that requires a really, really cleanplastic.
So either they have to wash it or they rejectit.
And that's a big problem.
(11:17):
The mechanical cycling could theoretically takea little bit more plastic than it does today if
it was 100% clean, 100% pure.
But your yogurt pot that you throw out, even ifyou've given it a nice rinse, will probably
have yogurt stains over it.
They can do an industrial clean on it, butthat's energy intensive, uses a lot of water,
very costly.
So economically, then it comes into the economyof things.
(11:37):
Does it make sense to recycle it?
Well, depends where you are.
In in The USA, for example, there's asignificant amount of land and space.
So companies will find that they will muchprefer just to chuck something into a landfill
for a few dollars a ton than actually gothrough the process of recycling.
(11:58):
So, you know, that sets out from a mindsetpoint of view exactly how big this problem is,
which can hopefully lead us into the process ofwhat can we do to from a mindset to solve it.
Yes.
And, can you please tell the solution?
What's your solution?
How you see that, how this problem can besolved?
(12:20):
And Of course.
Necessary for that?
Of course.
So I'll I'll tell you from Clean Planet Group.
So Clean Planet Group, we have three divisions.
We have energy, technologies, and foundation.
So we have Clean Planet Energy, Clean PlanetTechnologies, and Clean Planet Foundation.
They all do something different when it comesto the mindset of of solving the plastic waste
(12:44):
crisis.
I'll start with energy because that's that'sthat's that's from a scientific technically
standpoint very interesting.
Plastic is, as I said earlier, dug up from theground as as oil and refined into plastic.
So what that means is plastic is oil,ultimately, in a in a different chemical
(13:05):
structure, different chemical form.
And and what is oil?
It's hydrocarbons.
So hydrocarbon bonds bound together.
And if you look at what plastic is, plastic isjust long hydrocarbon bonds.
So in order to try and recycle the types ofplastic that you can't traditionally recycle
with mechanical recycling, the way we look atit is to chemically adjust those hydrocarbon
(13:30):
bonds.
And the way we can do it is through a processinitially called paralysis.
And and on the outset, it's it's very simple.
Our our chief technology officer, doctor AndrewRoger, would probably scowl at me for saying
that.
But but but but to explain it, it can beexplained quite simply.
If you heat up plastic to around 400 degreescentigrade in a vacuum, so there's no flame,
(13:54):
there's no incineration here, it's it's it's anantioxidant chamber, so there's there's there's
no fire happening, and then use a chemicalcatalyst, those hydrocarbon bonds will start
breaking apart into much smaller bonds.
And if you have really short bonds, middlebonds, or long bonds, you have the difference
between a gas, a liquid, and a solid.
(14:16):
So first of all, you vaporize it all into gas.
Everything goes into a gas, and then you startcooling, condensing it back down into different
chains.
Some of it will stay out of gas.
We'll go back to that in a second.
And some of it will go into liquid, and a tinybit of it will then stay as solid as well.
That liquid is then an oil which you can use toremake plastics again.
(14:39):
It's ultimately a circular recycle.
So rather than than having to go back out intothe middle of the ocean or into the middle of
the land somewhere and finding an oil reserveto dig up new oil to make new plastics again,
that oil can be used to make that plastic.
And what that means is you are savingsignificant carbon emissions on that whole life
(14:59):
cycle of process.
So that's how we, in Clean Planet Energy, whichis one of the divisions, start looking at the
mindset of solving this plastic waste problem.
We aren't in a position to deal, and we'll geton to regulation how how you can help, you
know, if you if you're not running a businesson it.
We're not in a position to necessarily dealwith the fact that people are gonna be chucking
(15:21):
out this plastic waste, and we can't be in aposition to say, you shouldn't be using this
plastic waste.
But what we can start looking from mindset is,okay.
This waste exists.
How can we deal with this waste?
So so that's what we look at.
We we we we put we build these large facilitiesset over roughly eight to 10 acres of land, and
(15:41):
they can take tens of thousands of tons ofplastic every single year.
And they can convert them back into this oil,and that oil can go back into the refineries
and be made into plastic again.
Because as I plastic is plastic can be greatfor the world.
Plastic is lifesaving.
So we want we need plastic.
What we don't need is the plastic waste, and weneed a waste recycler.
(16:02):
The gas I talked about earlier is also veryinteresting too.
So the gas can be used to power the facilityitself.
It's a syngas.
It's it's something which you can use as anenergy form.
So you've suddenly have within just thisplastic piece itself, 70% of it going into oil,
a little bit going into solid, and and the restof it then being used to actually power the
(16:23):
energy.
So we're not taking energy from the grid or oror or needing something else that for that
particular process.
So that's one way we believe you can startdealing with it, through Clean Planet Energy.
And I think then when you start looking attechnologies, which is our middle arm, that's
the r and d arms.
That's the research and development.
So that looks at how we can take it intodifferent ways.
(16:44):
So there is a way to take that plastic wastethat we have and turn that into SAF, which is
sustainable aviation fuel, which is what willallow you to go to a holiday to Spain or to
Mexico depending on, you know, wherever youlike to go to holiday and fly on a plane that
(17:05):
is being used on a circular or low carbonproduct depending on how how you look at it,
which means, again, new oil doesn't have to bedug up from the ground.
So that that's the second mindset we're doing.
It's like, can you hey.
You've got the circular option.
Is there an option to take to to to addressanother one of the world's key problems here,
which is which is, you know, carbon emissionsfrom from aviation?
(17:26):
And then that would lead us onto the finalthing.
It's like, well, what can you, as a mindset, doat home as well?
Yes.
Yes.
Such a great solution, and it can be done.
Yes.
It can be done, and, it just needs awarenessand support from starting from governments.
Yes, and then companies who are involved inrecycling.
(17:50):
So what do you do now to get, people attention?
And, do you get any government support?
Because it can start from, like, higher levels,yes, and then to down levels.
So everyone can be just not aware of this, andthere can be solutions, provided.
(18:12):
Okay.
So let's divide that into two parts.
There's the what can what can what can you doat home, I guess, to some degree, and what
should be done for that.
So let's start in reverse order.
What needs to happen?
Regulation.
That's that's really it.
That that really changes it.
Because if economically let let's take America,for example.
(18:34):
Because America is a really interesting placeto look at when it comes to plastic waste.
Because there's significant amounts of plasticwaste in America.
But what is the incentive to recycle it?
If, as I mentioned earlier, it is cheaper tothrow something into a landfill, why would you
(18:55):
look at recycling it?
Now there are a number of great companies outthere that have, you know, environmental
sustainability as their as their core aim.
Brilliant.
Where they struggle and where you've seenstruggling in in in you know, over the last six
to eight months, there's been a there's been aturn in The USA that has looked towards fossil
(19:16):
fuel a little bit more.
There's been, you know, there's been a asetback on regulations and those sorts of
things.
And one of the one of the key concerns that thecompanies that have, you know, sustainability,
green environment as their core mantra is, whentheir investors look down on them and their
investors look down on them and say, how are wedoing financially, which is regrettably a numb
(19:43):
the the key metric that number of investorswill always look at, They'll always look at
comparisons to competitors.
And if their competitors are making thingscheaper by putting things into landfill and
those sorts of things, then, well, they'rethey're they'll get a lot of pressure to relax
(20:04):
some of those company pillars that they havefrom mindset point of view.
And how do they as the leadership team who whowho want to drive that, how do they counter
that?
So in the EU, there is a significant amount ofregulation in place already.
EU and UK, I'll say for now, already, and alsoones coming into place.
(20:30):
For example, let's take The UK, for example.
There's the plaque packaging plastic packagingtax.
The pack plastic packaging tax is a tax.
That means that if you are someone who producesor is responsible for a significant amount of
plastic packaging waste, you will be penalizedfor that if it's not going into a recyclable
way, which means those companies, suddenly, allof them are on the same level playing field.
(20:55):
They all have to look at it together and thinkabout how we're gonna deal with this plastic
packaging waste.
And suddenly then, it means innovation andsolutions are derived.
So whilst we, as a company ourselves, don'ttake in grants from the government directly in
(21:16):
our business model, they can benefit us too.
So because a company may suddenly realize thatat a certain time and date, I'll be penalized
if I'm not doing something with this plasticwaste, if I send it to landfill, Then they're
turning to companies that can do the recycling.
And suddenly, you find is a huge amount ofinnovation is growing in in in in recycling.
(21:38):
So that allows the that that to grow.
And, you know, at the at the end of the day, weare a business, and we will make money from the
process we undertake so that can pleaseinvestors.
But at the same time, it can do things whichare incredibly positive for the world and the
environment that that we sit in.
(21:58):
So if we know now that regulation can work, whodrives regulation?
Well, what people will normally come to say isgovernments drive regulation.
Yes.
They do.
But governments are, probably for lack of abetter word, fickle.
Governments will go by what they can think theycan get away with and what they think will be
(22:23):
popular.
And that, at the final point, is where you stepin.
In the Clean Planet Foundation, the what we dothere is a not for profit, and we are enabled
to we we enable ourselves to undertakeactivities which don't necessarily have to make
money but can drive areas of awareness andpeople taking action.
(22:49):
We can talk in a moment about some of theprojects we have at the Clean Planet Foundation
about how we do that.
But what it boils down to is that if youbelieve, truly, the plastic waste is a problem,
which I've yet to find someone who has saidthey disagree with that, unlike the climate
change unfounded debate, then you need to betelling people that can make the difference
(23:16):
that things need to change.
That's how it happens.
People will sit at home and put things in theirrecycling bin, looping around to how we
started.
Great.
Continue doing that.
Don't stop that.
Getting things in the recycling bin do doesstop a process later down the chain of
separating it from the landfill.
(23:36):
However, many councils will still sift throughthe landfill waste to try and remove the
recyclables, the metals, the plastics, and andthe woods, etcetera.
But you separating it out will help, socontinue doing that.
But it's nowhere near enough.
If you believe as a business owner, as anentrepreneur, as a just someone at home that
(23:58):
this is a problem that needs doing, then yourmindset needs to change on making that aware.
And that's where sort of entrepreneurialadvocacy comes in.
You need to be telling those that matters,whether it's your local MP in in in in The UK,
whether it's your senator in The USA or youryour congressman some somewhere else.
(24:20):
You need to be letting them know that thatmatters.
Because if they start seeing that they're gonnalose vote, lose funding, then they will start
making a difference.
And the difference they can make can can thenflip right back around and actually drive
change by implementing the regulations.
If they put regulations in such as the plasticpackaging tax and others which are are being
(24:46):
implemented or have been implemented already,then suddenly, companies will loop right around
and suddenly have to drive innovation and makechange, and you will be responsible for that.
So that is the biggest thing you can be doingat home.
People often ask me, like, what's a smallpractical thing I could do?
I just wanna sit at home, and I wanna dosomething nice and practical.
(25:08):
And and it's a very tough one on this subjectbecause yeah.
Yeah.
Do your recycling.
Of course.
It won't make a it won't make a big difference.
Like, it will make a bit of a difference, but,yeah, it's not gonna make a material change.
If that's the mindset you're gonna the mindsetneeds to be make sure the people that can
implement the regulations, make implement therules, make a difference.
Or if you are buying from a, you know, supplierthat everything comes wrapped in plastic waste,
(25:35):
you know, simply ask them.
Well, what's your what's your what's yourpolicy on on the on the plastic waste?
How do you deal with it?
Because the more people that ask them, the morethey're gonna have to come up with a pretty
good answer if their custom if their customerare asking them.
And and we were speaking recently, we werespeaking to a USA, you know, major soft drink
company.
And they were saying that, well, no.
(25:55):
We don't have any regulation in this particulararea to deal with, you know, the plastic waste
we're generating on the films that go aroundour bottles, but our customers are asking for
it.
And because our customers are asking for it, weneed to do something to show them we're making
a difference.
And that there alone, just literally picking upthe phone and it's this whole entrepreneurial
advocacy.
Pick out the phone to your supplier and saying,look.
(26:17):
Like, I'm I'm make it up if you want to.
Do it properly if you want to.
Pick up the phone saying, listen.
I've I've been told by my boss.
You know?
I've been told by my board that I've got tojust have a good understanding now about where,
you know, the plastic waste, how you deal withthat internally.
If you how all our suppliers deal with it justso we have an understanding.
If they don't have a good answer for it, thentwo, three, four, or five of their customers
(26:38):
pick it up, someone in that company who'sgetting those concepts is gonna go up the chain
and go, we probably need an answer for this.
And maybe, initially, that answer will be, youknow, greenwashing to some degree.
It'll be, you know, okay.
We have a policy.
We do great things, but, anyways.
But the more it happens, the the more itoccurs, and the more people press on it,
(26:58):
suddenly, they'll start needing to to actuallymake a bit of a difference there.
So that, from a mind's point, is how you canstart actually making a a real change here.
And then, you know, and then, obviously, we cantalk about how we do it from a younger age and
and going up as well.
Yes.
Yes.
It is really everyone's responsibility becausethis planet is everyone's home, and we just
(27:23):
cannot ignore this problem.
And, also, we can teach children is to beresponsible for ecology.
And, I really, was very impressed, like, withso big, huge range of ages which you even
considered in what you do.
(27:45):
So can you please tell about the books andcomic journals which you publish?
Yes.
Of course.
So, the Clean Planet Foundation, as I saidearlier, has this wonderful ability to
undertake projects which can educate and takeaction and can be a little different from from
the corporate world.
So we have we have two really fun areas that wehave would help drive that awareness initially
(28:14):
and also then show people how show show youngeraudience how to take action.
So one of them is a comic book series calledHapsy.
And for those of you who are watching visually,I've got one copy here.
For those of you at home, it's if you're in TheUK, it's a bit it's a bit like the Bino.
If you're in The US, it's it's it's a, youknow, it's a colorful comic strip magazine.
(28:36):
It pick up a Superman or a Spider Man comic,and and you'll you'll have, you know, comic
strips in there, lots of different characters,games.
There's there's activities through through.
So, you know, some of the characters we have.
Ignorant Ike.
So she's a young girl who's very ignorant aboutthe world.
Lucas Litter, loves to drop litter.
Greedy Greg, one of the adult characters in thebook, he's he loves the he loves to be green,
(28:59):
but the green here is money, not not beinggreen itself.
And it's all about how he takes shortcuts inhis business to go that.
It's lighthearted.
It's fun.
It's it always has a message.
You know, it's the comic book for budding ecowarriors.
It always has a message.
Then you have add action.
She loves to take action.
And and every month, we have, we have actionchallenge where we we look at one area of of of
(29:26):
the environment of the world today about, youknow, how you can actually make a difference.
Go out there and do something to make adifference.
And and and it's it's really popular.
We have we have 10 we have close to 10,000young people who who who enjoy Hapsy on the on
the print version and and obviously more onlineas well.
There's there's over 350 episodes of comicstrips online you can just watch for free if
(29:48):
you wanna get understand it and know it.
And, you know, that age range is it's probablythere for about the seven to 11 year old.
And it allows it allows an outing your audienceto to start just keeping it as part of their
early mindset.
You know?
The one thing we've learned is that, you know,young people are brilliant when it comes to
this.
They they they they've grown up into the world.
(30:09):
You know?
They they they they've grown up in a world thathas plastic pollution.
It's not new to them.
In the same way that, depending on your age,some of you grew up in a world that had, you
know, threats of nuclear war or or threats ofthe ozone layer.
Yeah.
Those are things.
Their their threats ultimately, in addition to,you know, the changing climate, is is is
plastic waste.
And and and, you Hapsee looks at all differentareas for this climate change, whether it's
(30:30):
whether it's plastic waste.
But but it it doesn't preach.
It's it's meant to make it enjoyable, but atthe same time, keep having a message.
So if, you know, if you're a parent and and youwant something that that is silly, it's fun,
but has a has a baseline of education to it,then we find that the the monthly hapsy comics
have have gone down really well with youngpeople.
So so that that's kind of our earliest ageintroduction.
(30:53):
We then have a recent released novel, which is,again, for for those at home, you can see it.
For those on audio, I'll it.
It's called element and the Material Matter.
It's a 70,000 word so a full novel, 300 pagesnovel about and, actually, it stems from one of
(31:14):
the characters in the Hapsey comics.
But you you don't need to have read the comics.
It's it's a standalone.
It's it's noncanon.
It's the comics.
It's a complete different.
And Ellie Ment is an 11 year old scientist.
She she absolutely loves science, and shedoesn't believe in magic.
And and and this is the and this is the wholething that, you know, Eddie doesn't believe in
(31:35):
magic.
She believes in science, but science is magic.
And and that's I think, you know, especially ifwe have a team of engineers here at the Clean
Planet group, that's one of the things wereally wanted to to get across.
You know, if you look at if you look at middlegrade fantasy books today, you know, whether
that's Percy Jackson about gods, about HarryPotter, or it's about magic, You can go on and
(31:58):
on and on.
There's magical schools in the clouds.
There's there's magic here.
There's magic there.
But the world is magical enough.
You know, if you step outside and look around,it is magical enough.
So what Eli meant in the material matter doesis it takes that charm of of children's fantasy
and keeps it in the real world, keeps it linkedto science.
(32:24):
Ellie loves science, and and she suddenly sopart of the premise is that her she suddenly
is, you know, mentored by her favorite scienceteacher, professor Fialova.
And and she she then has this ability tounderstand the world, experiment with the
(32:45):
world, go on adventures with the world, butit's all grounded in science.
And and this is sort of a so it's it's greatfor we we found, you know, sort of nine, ten
year olds up to well, up to adults, to beperfectly honest.
But, you know, it's it's that it's that nine,10 to sort of 15 year old, you know, is where
it's targeted originally.
(33:05):
It allows them to enjoy the world in adifferent way.
Go go on those adventures that get lost in getlost in a in a, you know, fictional world of
Hapsey, which is, you know, the town they livein.
But it's all set in the real world.
And and they they go on this adventure, and andEllie needs to you know, the the the premise of
(33:25):
the book initially is that she's out atmidnight doing a science experiment.
And she looks up, and her brand new school, theschool she's just about to start, is burning
down.
But the flames are colored purple, whichobviously is not traditional rather than orange
and red.
Like, why is this?
Why is the school burning down?
Why are those flames purple?
And it takes her on this journey where it couldalways lead to magic, but, actually, can she
(33:51):
solve it with science?
Can it exist in the real world?
And that's the adventure.
And and then we then because we focus onscience, it allows us to actually touch on
you're never heavy hitting, but it allows totouch on the another environmental problems of
today, plastic waste and and and those sorts ofthings as well.
And a big drive of this book is this is thispull push and pull between idealism and
(34:20):
pragmatism.
What should we be doing to solve the world ifyou didn't have to consider anything else?
Or what can we do to save the world if you dohave to consider things?
And this is the big challenge that I thinkyoung people have today is they know what needs
to be done, and they're screaming for whatneeds to be done.
(34:41):
But then the adults are saying, yeah.
But if we do that, then then the economy willgo smaller, and we will stop growing, and
inflation will rise.
And and then it goes back to the young peopleand saying, well, yeah.
Right.
But it's one planet as as as Elena, you saidyou said just a second ago.
It's it's it's one it's we've got one planethere.
(35:02):
And then they're like, yeah.
But we also need to live, we need to eat, andeveryone needs to be able to afford food.
And so and it is.
And and and it what is the right answer?
And we we try and explore that in a in a waythat, you know, fits with the with the age
range.
And I and I I say that loosely because I thinkone of the other things that, you know,
literature and TV and movies that are targetedtowards this sort of this age range tend to do
(35:23):
is they they try and simplify it too much forany younger audience where where a younger
audience are clever.
They know it.
They get it.
They they don't talk down to them.
Talk up to them.
Let them go along with the ride in a way thatis educating and they're learning, but at the
same time, they're saying, I get this.
So that that's the other thing the book triesto do.
(35:44):
So, you know, obviously, I'm biased, but I'mfrom the Clean Planner Foundation.
But if you if you have a seven to eleven yearold or or you know of one and you want to sort
of get them enjoying things in that respect,then then look at the Hapsey comics.
If you have a nine plus year old or you justwant to read a novel that doesn't have to focus
(36:08):
on magic to be fantasy, then I would I wouldrecommend getting yourself a copy at any
bookshop you want.
It's available quite wide of Element and thematerial matter because then that starts
educating on that.
But all of that links into this concept we weretalking about earlier, which is about this
mindset for activism.
It's about getting into your mindset that youcan make a difference.
(36:31):
You you can you you you cannot just do yourrecycling without having to spend without
having to go out and and be on a pro set aprotest or or or something like that.
You can start just a sim a simple phone call,an email to your supplier, a question at a q
and a town hall to representative, it'd getpeople thinking.
(36:51):
And if you want my advice, if you want to lookat the environment and you want people to start
making a difference, then look at the plasticwaste crisis because no one's gonna push back
on that.
If you stand up in a town hall or a q and awith your local member of parliament or or
whatever your your your democracy system is, ifyou stand up there and say, we need to reduce
(37:15):
this because it's gonna impact climate change,You will, somewhere in the audience, have
someone push back at you.
And it's frustrating.
It's annoying because they're they have sadlybeen led by disinformation and misinformation
about about that, but it exists.
But if you wanna cut through instantly and ifyou want a way that no one's gonna snort or
(37:38):
laugh or push back at you, if you want peopleto agree with you, and by that agreeing, it
suddenly means that the representative sat infront of you or the supplier down the road is
suddenly gonna take note, then focus on theplastic waste crisis because it is a crisis.
It is a problem.
A million seabirds die every single yearthrough plastic waste ingestion, and no one in
(38:02):
that audience will be able to push back.
Don't start saying ban plastic because plasticshouldn't be banned.
Plastic waste should be managed, and regulationshould be put in for that.
And that would be my advice on how to get thatmindset between you and your employees and just
people at home of how to move forward.
(38:24):
Yes.
Everyone can make difference.
Yes.
And I really appreciate for what you do.
And I have daughter.
She's 17, and she likes science.
So I definitely will, get copy of the book andmagazine because she also likes comics, and she
also thinks like, plans to even make comicsbecause she's very creative.
(38:46):
And so thank you so much for raising awarenessin our podcast, and it this discussion helped
me also to know more about the situationbecause people just busy with their in their
own things.
And it it is really important to stop and thinkoutside of box, yes, and think Exactly.
(39:14):
The things which, all of us can make adifference.
Yes.
So everyone who watching our video, you canjust make a small call, a small call to
companies producing, supplying plastic and askthem, what is your policy for recycling?
(39:34):
Yes.
And every if everyone will start thinking aboutthis and taking even one small step, it can
make a big difference.
And, of course, Betty, we have all con contactsand information, how you want people maybe to
contact or if they have any questions, how theycan support.
(39:57):
Or maybe you have community.
I think it would be great if you havecommunity.
So through community, you can suggest peoplewhat they can do because I am sure there are so
many people who want to help and want toparticipate.
And if they know exactly what to do and if youbuild that community, they will join.
(40:21):
And bigger community is bigger awareness, andpeople can start speaking about this, reading
books, suggesting book for kids, educating themfrom early age.
This is how the awareness will raise.
Yes.
And when awareness raise, when peopleunderstand this problem, this is how they can
start take actions.
(40:42):
Exactly.
A very good summary.
Thank you.
Yes.
So reach out to Bertie and, of course, getbooks, magazines for your children, and let's
do it together.
Thank you so much.
Yeah.
Thank you, Bertie.
You do such important, work for, everyone, formankind.
(41:04):
And, of course, all people, especiallyentrepreneurs, business owners who have impact
on their employees who create, companycultures, they can be really a great support to
make our planet a better place.
Perfect.
Thank you so much.
Yeah.
Thank you too, Bertie, and see you soon againon our further episodes.
(41:28):
I hope so.
Thank you so much.
Bye now.
You're welcome.
Bye.
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