July 21, 2025 • 40 mins
In this episode, Elena Apalkova is joined by Marnie Stockman and Nick Coniglio to explore effective leadership, drawing inspiration from the character Ted Lasso. They discuss leadership lessons and servant leadership themes from Ted Lasso, emphasizing the importance of aligning business with core values and fostering a positive company culture. The conversation highlights recognizing and developing team strengths, practical applications of Ted Lasso's principles in business, and the role of listening, curiosity, and communication. They delve into self-leadership, emotional intelligence, and empathy's impact on leadership. The episode concludes with insights on resilience, embracing change, and trusting the process.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
Hello.
Hello.
Welcome to mindset to results.
And today, we have amazing people in ourstudio.
It's Marni Stockman and Koniglia, who are theauthors of the book Lead It Like Lhasa.
And we will speak about a very important topicabout leadership and not just leadership in
(00:27):
general, but really very effective leadership.
And formula of leadership that every businessowner, every entrepreneur can imply in his
business and see results.
Hi, Manin.
Hi, Nick.
Hi.
Thanks.
Hi, Elena.
Yeah.
We're excited to be here.
(00:48):
Yes.
Thank you so much for being guest on ourpodcast.
And I know that we are recording today amazingepisode that so many people will find valuable
and impact implement for in their business.
So, yes, you are coauthors of the book lead itlike Lasso.
It means that you were very inspired byprinciples which you learned from Ted Lasso
(01:16):
show.
So maybe let's start from that because I'm sureI'm sure that not all people know about Ted
Lasso and his show.
So let's introduce our listeners first to whatTed Lasso show is and what principles of
leadership he shared with audience and that somany people use them and it helped them to grow
(01:41):
and scale their successful business.
Yeah, that's a lot to cover in just an introbut we can do it.
So first we like to say that there are twotypes of people in the world, people who love
Ted Lasso and people who just haven't seen ityet.
So for the folks listening that haven't seenit, it really is if you watch it with an eye on
(02:03):
leadership, it is a masterclass in and ofitself.
Not everyone watches it for that intent.
If you just wanna watch it to laugh and cry andamazing comedy, also highly recommend but the
show definitely is not the show that you justwatch once and let it pass.
(02:26):
It makes you wanna be better which is whatinspired us to use it as a writing, right?
You wouldn't wanna write a book about somethingthat was sort of a one and done situation.
This book makes people want to be better.
I'll give a little bit of what who Ted Lassowas and then Nick can parallel it with kind of
the leadership elements that we wrote the bookabout.
(02:47):
So, Ted Lasso was an American football coachwho went to The UK to coach football which we
in America call soccer, right?
So, he freely said there was an entire internetof things he didn't know about soccer but what
we quickly learn is that he knows a lot aboutleadership and development and that is the
(03:12):
magic that is Ted Lasso.
So I'll pass it to Nick because he's the onethat found Ted Lasso first.
Yeah, I mean, I think our whole notion, so ourbook, Lead It Like Lasso, is not just reciting
what happens in the show.
It was pulling, like Marni said, the lessonsfrom the show and marrying that and
(03:37):
accompanying that with our experience inleadership, and we have a lot of it.
Know, we not only did have we been inleadership positions, Marnie has her doctorate
in leadership.
I've been in executive leadership for twodecades plus, but we married the principles of
the show to our experiences in in the corporateworld.
(04:00):
We also started scaled and exited from anotherbusiness we started ourselves, And we also
marry it to business principles and leadershiplessons from the real world and with people
that you would recognize.
So the big themes are around servantleadership.
(04:22):
How do we develop people, right?
And how is our mission focused on the growth ofpeople to lead successful organizations or
teams?
But the other thing that we talk about quiteexplicitly is about personal leadership.
(04:43):
We have a saying in the book, there's a sayingin the show in Ted Lasso, Football is life.
Our saying is leadership is life, and youcannot lead others without leading yourself
first.
And that is an underlying principle andframework that we strongly believe in and we
talk about all the time, both in our book andin our speaking engagements beyond that.
(05:08):
Yes.
So great principle because it is not thatbusiness is separate from you.
Business is extension who you are.
Yes.
Extension of your core values, extension ofyour big goals and your attitude.
And when you know how to lead yourself, thenonly you can lead other people.
(05:30):
Yes.
And also, when you grow business, it should betotally aligned with who you are.
And this is how you find people to be membersof your team, you have to help them also see
your values.
Yes?
And the vision which you have.
So they get excited about this.
(05:50):
And this is how you can lead these people.
Yes, by being example of who you are andbecoming best version of yourself and helping
other people to become best version ofthemselves.
This is how big team says it's built.
Exactly.
100%.
Like, show up as your authentic self andproject that, like the way you project your
(06:12):
core values like you mentioned is how theculture plays out in the company and then yeah,
you wanna align the folks that work with you tothat.
Don't have to be aligned.
And that is one thing that's a little bitdifferent.
We present in our book a framework, aleadership framework.
And if you look at a lot of leadershipframeworks, they typically start with vision
(06:38):
and strategy.
And while we believe that's important, we kindof take a unique perspective of it, and this
hammers home exactly the point you were saying,Elena, is we start with core values.
Because understanding yourself, how to alignyour core values, ensure it's it's in match
with culture, which is how your core valuesactually play out, is is really the foundation
(07:04):
to personal success.
It's found it's the foundation toorganizational success and general success
overall.
Yes.
And I think also to see the value in people.
They see their uniqueness.
Yes.
And encourage them also to see that.
And because sometimes people don't know what isgood in them.
(07:27):
They don't see their potential.
And I think that really the true leader issomeone who see in people their those talent.
Yes.
And encourage them to develop those talents tobring into the surface and lead everyone to
(07:47):
focus on their strength, on their genius.
This is how everybody really enjoying becausethey focus on their strength, and other part of
teams are also collected to complement eachother.
So tell me about your perspective about this.
(08:09):
Well, I think our perspective is we couldn'tagree with that more.
My favorite episode in Ted Lasso is actuallywhere he puts a gift in everybody's locker and
that gift is a book that is uniquely it showsthe character who they could become and gives
them a growth path.
(08:30):
So we talk about that quite a bit in knowingwho you are is critical but understanding how
you can use your core values to make them yoursuperpower is really what unlocks the best
version of everyone.
And I would add to that and to what both of youare saying, one of the most famously quoted
(08:55):
lines in the show, Ted Lasso, is to be curiousand not judgmental.
And I think not only recognizing the strengthsof others, but really being intentional in
being curious about what those strengths are.
And I think that showed out day after day afterday or episode after episode after episode
(09:21):
within Ted Lasso just how curious he was tofind out what other people were thinking, how
they felt, what their strengths were, whattheir areas for growth were.
And when we watched the show, and this is whywe wrote the book using that show as a
relatable reference, is it very much remindedboth Marni and myself how we were successful
(09:44):
building a company from scratch to amultimillion dollar organization.
It was that curiosity, not only about people,but about environments, about customers, what
have you.
And that's really what motivated us to kind ofuse that as a relatability reference to the
(10:05):
book itself.
Yeah.
Could you please share more about how youimplemented these principles?
Maybe some examples or some practices where youtook these principles, implemented, and you saw
success so our audience also can get somepractical practical tips which they can also
(10:26):
implement in their business?
So I'm gonna start with, you know, I mentionedthat Ted Lasso was an American football coach,
game and coach soccer, which he knew nothingabout.
Nick and I came from the education world andbuilt software for IT business owners.
So, we did not know the space, the language,the acronyms, anything along the way and so we
(10:54):
had to be curious, not judgmental and one ofthe things that we did was have, we basically
Nick was on the development side, right?
He ran all of that world and he, they wouldbuild an agile product and then get feedback
from the clients and he was always askingquestions and curious about how they were using
(11:19):
it and how it could be better.
So it was a conversation constantly between thecompany and our clients that they were
informing the product.
So that whole notion of be curious, so one ofNick's superpowers is he's a great listener and
a great question asker and so he could say,this is what we think we've heard and this is
(11:43):
what we think you're asking for and this is theproblem we're hearing.
This is the way we'd like to present thesolution.
So, he is so I think that's one of the elementsthat anyone could take away to their business
which is that if you listen to your customersand have that conversation, that can help you
(12:07):
grow the right way as opposed to makingassumptions of what you think they want.
Nick, I probably botched that a bit from yourperspective.
How would you fix that?
No.
I I I think I think you nailed it.
I'm sorry, Elena.
Go ahead.
Yeah.
Yes.
I'm managing my camera just to get off, so wejust continue.
(12:31):
Yeah.
I you know, interesting how we really, like, Ifeel it not only our color matches, but really
our thoughts.
I was just thinking about importance of hearingand listening and feedback, getting feedback
from people you work with so, you know, thatthey really understand what you tell them,
right, and what you mean.
(12:52):
And you know that they are tuned in yourvision, and also you have always exchange of
the feedback.
And then you can together tune that you knowthat everyone are in the same line.
A 100%.
We could not agree more.
And that's that's really, I think, where howMarni and I came to be at this point where we
(13:14):
are today.
She mentioned earlier that we were in educationtechnology, and tying it all together, the
reason why we got out of that and started ourown business is because we found ourselves in a
position where our core values, which was verymuch based upon the whole notion of helping
(13:37):
other people.
That's what drives both Marni and myself, isreally service oriented problem solving,
helping other people.
And that was very much in conflict with the Itwasn't in conflict with what the stated core
values of the company that we worked for was,but it was in conflict with actually how it
(13:58):
played out because while we were trying toservice people, they were cutting our staffs by
50% and they were taking away valuableresources for us.
And that feedback loop was missing, right?
Although it was recognizable, it was obvious tous, the people we were working for did not
(14:18):
recognize that.
So that's what made both Marni and myselfdecide, hey, we are gonna launch a company that
is based on our core values.
And our core values are not only about creatingraving fans, but about effective communication
and listening.
(14:39):
And that has ultimately resulted in a verysuccessful business initiative, and it's
resulted in our whole methodology that we talkabout constantly.
So Elena, you know, we are speaking the samelanguage here.
You are you are everything that you're sayingis what we put in our book, what we advocate,
(15:02):
what we preach, and what we firmly believe in.
Yeah.
I really appreciate that.
And let's speak about startups like smallbusinesses.
What you would recommend companies in the justearly beginning?
Because we all understand how important is tocreate the culture.
(15:23):
Yeah.
The culture where everyone knows that they'reappreciated, heard, valued, and they have like,
in they there is a culture when people canopenly express themselves without being afraid
that they will be judged or somehow bullied.
(15:44):
Yes.
Yeah.
Let's speak about this.
So, I mean, I think it I'll start this, Martin.
You continue here.
It starts with identifying what you what youare as a company, your core values, and then
communicating those and bringing on people whohave a shared core value set.
(16:04):
100%, that's where it starts.
Now, we can talk about some tools, and we lista number of them in our book in terms of how to
continue on with that momentum to ensure yourculture is the right way.
One of the things we talk about is having apersonal operating system, going through that
that work as individuals within anorganization, whether you're one person, two
(16:28):
people, four people, what have you, and trulydocument and identify what motivates you, what
demotivates you, what your interests are, andshare that out because it's really hard to work
effectively as a team where you don't havethat, and you need that security, right?
(16:50):
You need to feel safe.
And part of that is communicating that out tothe team, you know, the types of things that
make you feel safe.
And have that outlined in our book aboutcreating that personal operating system.
We have so many other things, Marni.
What am I missing?
Well, mean, along with the personal operatingsystem is we have a communication guide, which
(17:14):
is sort of a working with me doc.
And the importance of this, we didn't have thiswhen we were when we hired our first employee
but we did when we hired our third employeebecause we had to fire the first one and we had
to let the first one go because I thought, youknow, we're working remotely, thought we had
(17:36):
communicated the expectations, the goals, thetactics, the strategies, but the job wasn't
getting done and so, you know, and I definitelytake that to heart.
She reported to me and when it didn't work, wedid a lot of reflection on how could we have
avoided that and and some of it came down tocommunication and expectation around
(17:59):
communications.
So, we built a communication guide andonboarding started with them seeing our
community, you know, like, this is how tocommunicate with me.
Was very clear of what the expectations wereand then we would have the folks we onboarded
then develop their own communication guide andif folks want a blank template, they can check
(18:23):
it out at leaveitlikeblasto. It doesn't
It doesn't take an Email or anything.
You can just go see what those look like but tounderstand how folks communicate and that we're
open about like the likes, the dislikes,strengths, and weaknesses, etcetera.
Made for better better company culture becausethey could see how we were supporting our core
(18:45):
values.
Okay.
Great.
So now we will post this Yes.
And we discussed about leadership that startsfrom yourself.
So let's speak more about this.
What is included in self leadership?
Well, you've mentioned the first part which iscore values.
(19:07):
It's really understanding yourself.
As a matter of fact, Harvard Business Reviewsays that the number one indicator of
leadership success is self awareness.
So, we're not just suggesting it off of whatwe've seen on a you know, fictional fictional
TV show, right?
There's there's studies behind that.
So, you have to start there for sure andunderstand how those behaviors play out but
(19:34):
beyond that, there's also needing to set avision for where you want to head.
So, we talk about setting smart goals, youknow, looking five, ten years out and then
breaking that down into specifics and tacticalpieces of what you need but one of my favorite
parts to think about is when we talk about atthe end of the book which is legacy.
(19:55):
Think about who you wanna be when you retire orwhat do you want in your obituary to be said
about you because that helps you create thoseguide rails that will really help you make
decisions that align with your core values.
Yeah.
I'll just add to that.
(20:17):
I think it's important when we talk aboutpersonal leadership and we talk about this
quite a bit.
There's more than one way to lead.
And in reality, everyone is a leader.
Whether in the boardroom, what we think oftraditional leadership as a CEO or something,
(20:39):
or a locker room, or a classroom, or even yourliving room.
It doesn't matter where you're at.
Everybody is a leader themselves.
That's the first thing to recognize.
And then the second thing is, like I said justa second ago, it is there's different ways to
lead.
Like, Marni has a very different leadershipstyle than I have, and that's fine.
(21:01):
That is that is absolutely okay.
I'm am, at my heart, I'm quite an introvertedperson, but that brings some different skills
than somebody who might be more extroverted andmore life of the party.
I think I think one thing we try to point outin the in in the book specifically, we do it
(21:25):
through a character assessment.
Which type of leader are you?
Is is really to, number one, accept the factthat there's more than one way to lead.
And number two, once you do that, understandwho you are, understand what your strengths
are, and then also understand what your areasfor improvement are.
(21:45):
Yeah, great.
And also I would add that attitude isimportant.
Yes.
Attitude.
Yes.
Yes.
Attitude towards yourself, life will determinelife attitude towards us.
And even today, yes, different things canhappen.
Yes.
Even camera can get off during podcast.
(22:10):
And there are different different way.
Yeah.
Somebody can just freeze and just startpanicking what to do, you know that there are
always the way, and you just can go analyzewhat you can do better and find solution as
without reacting and without experiencingdifferent negative emotions.
(22:33):
And so I think this is very important for theleader to to know how to have the right
attitude for different situation, forunexpected situation, for different conflicts
between people, how to manage them.
And it also relates to emotional intelligence.
(22:53):
Because I think emotional intelligence forreader is very important.
Yeah.
Because different situation can come, and youhave to not only control yourself, but also
show other people, yes, that everything isokay, everything is under control, that they
can really come down and know that there is theguidance and all will be sorted out.
(23:18):
Yeah, couldn't, we could not agree with youmore.
Mean, we have two, two big parts of our bookthat are dedicated towards adaptability and
resilience, which is how you do respond tosomething.
And then we have another section all aroundemotional intelligence.
In reality, at the end of the day, those whoincrease and expand and continually develop
(23:43):
their emotional intelligence really are theones that are not only successful, but are
living really the least anxious life, right?
The least stressful life.
So we could not agree more with you.
And the beauty of it is just like leadership,you can develop these skills over time.
(24:07):
You have to work on it.
Know, talk, I'll talk about continuouslearning.
It's critically important that you keepexpanding and expanding, and people aren't just
born emotionally intelligent, right?
Some, their EQ, you know, have an inclinationto be more at the higher end of the EQ scale,
(24:28):
but everybody can learn to develop those skillsand that's really important for people to
understand.
Yeah, definitely.
Mani, do you want to add anything about this?
Well, I think the last thing that Nick said iscritically important, that you can learn and
work on these skills but you have to work onthose skills, right?
(24:51):
One thing I found interesting is when we wereresearching some of the servant leadership
traits, empathy comes up.
One thing that Ted Las was known for was beingempathetic and I don't know that people would
think about how do I practice being moreempathetic?
What do I, how do I work on that?
(25:12):
That sounds hard to do.
Is that something just I'm just naturallysupposed to feel empathetic and I read a study
that reading fiction books is actually astrategy for how to improve your empathy
because when you read fiction, you are puttingyourself in the mindset of someone else and you
(25:35):
can see a story outside of yourself and Ithought, well, that's a great practical, easy
to do tip that might not think about whileyou're just binge reading some, you know, some
fiction story for fun.
You actually are working on your own empathy atthe same time.
Yes.
I like that you said about that empathy and Ibelieve that empathy starts from empathy to
(25:59):
yourself.
Oh, yeah.
And I'll I mean, that's where so Ted had panicattacks in the show.
I've had panic attacks.
Nick has had panic attacks.
And much of that comes down to really how howyou are not being empathetic to to yourself.
So I think that is really important to thinkabout.
(26:21):
Yeah.
Yes.
Because in business, I believe that it is notabout pushing hard something.
It is being aligned.
Yes.
Aligned with what you do and with your goals.
And this is doing things naturally.
And many business owners, have big goals, butthey think that I have just to push hard.
I have to do more.
(26:41):
I have to demand more from people.
And usually, it just brings to burnout anddifferent depressions and insomnia.
And so but when people learn to be empath haveempathy for themselves and celebrate even small
wins.
Yes.
Because sometimes we have this saboteurs, like,for example, judge, which always says that it
(27:06):
is not enough.
That you achieve something and say, oh, youcould do better.
And so I think this is understanding in whichstate like ability to shift from that saboteurs
negative state to a sage state that is positiveto see people what they already accomplished
(27:27):
and celebrate their wins and create thatpositive environment that people are
encouraged.
They're not just pushed and just you can dobetter.
Yeah.
But really encouraged to do better because theysee their potential by celebrating what they
already done.
So you you mentioned something that broughtanother point to mind.
(27:47):
You know, we talked about Nick mentioned how wehave a character assessment in the book that
you can see which type of archetype of leaderthat you are and it's critically important that
not everyone in your company is the same typeof leader because you really need different
minds to look at angles, different ways and so,you know, that is one thing why Nick and I work
(28:11):
well together.
Ted Lasso had his Diamond Dogs.
So, that was his challenge network or supportgroup and being able to when you can be
empathetic and recognize the strengths ofothers as well as yourself and how they fit
together, right?
It's rising tide lifts all ships because youneed to borrow from everyone's strengths and to
(28:34):
support your own weaknesses by having a networkand I think that's another thing that folks can
do for both personal leadership as well aswithin the company is to really surround
yourself with those folks that support you butalso push you to make you better.
Yeah.
Great.
And I also know very interesting tool ortechnique to create empathy.
(28:56):
And this is to look at your photo when you werea small child.
And you.
Yes.
Yes.
So when you look at yourself as you were asmall child and you look at your eyes, like,
this is such such a, like, eyes with so much,like, pure essence of who you are in that small
(29:17):
age, you naturally feel empathy to that child.
And then you you and they said this is you.
So you look at yourself as that pure yourself.
Yes.
Like, that child.
And also everybody in company can just bringtheir photos, and people can Yeah.
Look at their photos and see that as theirchild.
(29:40):
So it it brings, like it is automatically putus in that sage sage mode because we don't
judge our child.
We don't just do critics to critic to children.
And, like, seeing them as a small child, likemaybe two years, three years old, it also helps
(30:02):
to be in that stage of love and empathy.
Yes, this is one of the techniques.
So I love that, right?
Because it's something actionable.
I think when we talk about anything personaldevelopment wise, right, how to grow personal
growth, how to become the best version of you,right?
(30:25):
It's all about, you know, one thing that's veryimportant to both Marni and myself is let's
brainstorm and provide actionable ideas.
And looking at that photograph of yourself whenyou're younger in terms of developing empathy,
that's a great way to do that.
It's a great activity.
Marni and I, in the book, we talk about, wedon't just talk about identifying your core
(30:51):
values or SMART goals or understanding whatyour legacy is.
We also give people actionable activities toactually do that.
And they're not just boring, let's fill outthis form type activities, they're fun
activities.
Looking at yourself as a child or having thecompany bring in photographs of everybody who's
(31:13):
younger, that's kind of fun.
And that is one of our core values, is to havefun.
And we might just steal that, Elena, because Ithink that's a great idea.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because when you look at the child's eyes, youjust see that true essence.
Yes.
We are.
And this also can remind people that what theywere dreaming about is to Mhmm.
(31:37):
Again, like, inspire that in in themselves todream because we know that we all were dreaming
when we were very small.
But what happened when we went to school, wetold that, oh, like, stop the dreaming.
Dream is just for small little babies.
And now you now you have to be logical.
(32:00):
You have to know how to do things.
And from then, we forgot how to dream.
Yes?
And then Yeah.
People become like those robots, like thosemachines that don't often go for even
imagination to visualization to see how theirlife can be, what they really can be.
(32:21):
Yes.
And so bringing those small children pictures,it can really remind them what they who they
truly are.
Yes.
Without all these viruses which came after whenwe grow up, it's accumulated so many different
cliches.
What we talk about while what our failureswere.
(32:42):
So it is really so good when we come back towho we truly were and who we truly are and
again start dreaming and then connect our bigdreams to company big dreams.
Yes.
And our values to company values.
And this can create this loving atmospherewhere everybody can grow and achieve their
(33:05):
dreams, helping company to achieve theirs.
Love it.
Love that.
Yes.
And another question and another question, Ithink last question, because this is really so
amazing topic.
And another question about resilience.
Yes.
Because we already discussed that resilience isso important.
(33:28):
So what you would suggest from your experienceand also from Ted Lasso show, how people can
cultivate their resilience because this is avery important feature and quality of every
leader.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I I think that the single biggest thingthat you can do to become a more resilient
(33:56):
person is to go after things and take risks.
I think the fact of the matter is, and this wasme when I was younger in my 20s, many, many,
many, many years ago, right?
I was very safe.
Security was a big deal to me, right?
But you realize over time that when you thenget put into a situation that stretches you or
(34:24):
an an issue a situation of stress orchallenging situation that you're really not
used to, you know, being able to brainstormways on how to get beyond that.
So I I think it's really hard to developresilience unless you put yourself out there
and set higher and higher goals.
(34:46):
Now, obviously, you need to accompany that withthe right attitude.
You talked about this earlier, Elena, beingpositive.
But from our perspective, it is very importantfrom a resilience standpoint to put yourself in
a position to have to be resilient, to takerisks.
(35:07):
You know, they don't have to be crazy risks.
I'm not gonna, you know, jump off of a bridgeand hope I can dive perfectly into a sea of
water, but put yourself in a position both froma personal growth and a professional growth
standpoint where, you know what?
I might get called out on this, it might not goexactly the way I want it to go, because at the
(35:29):
end of the day, resilience takes practice, andyour job is to continually raise that bar,
raise that bar, raise that bar so you have tobe resilient.
I yammered on there.
Marni, give us the right answer on resilience.
I think that's a perfect answer.
Taking risks, it's really you grow when itcomes to failure.
(35:52):
One other thing that comes to mind is we'verecently talked about this idea of a pre mortem
which is instead of waiting for something to gowrong and then figure out what just went wrong.
When you're thinking about trying something newor putting something out in the world, think
well like let's assume it went wrong andproblem solve what you could have done to avoid
(36:14):
it or how you would respond to it and when yourealize that the worst case scenario is really
not the worst case scenario then I think you'rewilling to take more risks.
Yes, I agree with both of you and I also canadd another perspective to this, that
resilience is built when we detach from currentsituation.
(36:39):
Yes.
When we see where we want to go, and we thinkand feel and act from that place.
And when we also have understanding that in whywe need big goals, because big goals are given
for us to grow.
If we just looking for certainty, there will beno grow in that because we will just do what we
(37:03):
already know to do.
Yes.
And we set just small goals, which we knowlogically how to achieve them.
So there is nothing new, and there is nogrowth.
But really, when we go for big things, yes, andthen we can think from there, this will help us
to be resilient because we will not we will notreact to small things because we're not at this
(37:26):
level.
We're already there.
And so this is how we get excited, inspired.
So we it gives us that fuel to go through evenwhen it feels hard.
So I'm gonna throw one more Ted Lasso quote inthere.
When he started this, They said it's a lot likechange.
Change is a lot like riding a horse.
If you're comfortable while you're doing it,you're probably doing it wrong.
(37:49):
Right?
So you need to get comfortable with beinguncomfortable, which I think is what you just
said.
Yeah.
Definitely.
And also another thing that I like how SteveJobs said that you can no never connect the
dots when you look forward.
You only can connect the dots when you lookbackwards.
So initially, you have to trust that somehowthese all dots will be connected.
(38:12):
So this is exactly about uncertainty.
You just have to have faith.
Believe in yourself that you can do it.
Because if you really have that big dream, bigdesire, as old Nightingale called it burning
desire, it means that you can give it.
You can do it because it wouldn't be given toyou if you wouldn't be able to do this.
(38:34):
It means that you are able to do that.
And then you you should have faith that, youknow, that there are an invisible forces, God,
universe, if you know how like, the laws, ifyou do right things, take first step, you will
see that other door will open.
So you don't need to see the all the root, yetall these steps.
(39:00):
Just focus on first step, do it right, and seewhat's there will be revealed.
Amen.
Yeah.
Another principle for this list.
Yes.
Thank you so much.
I really enjoyed our conversation, and I'm surethat our audience will get so much value of
(39:22):
this episode.
Is it something that you would like to sharewith us before we wrap up?
Maybe advice or something that you want toshare.
Well, I think you brought up the one word thatTed Lasso is known for, which is believe.
So that's a good one.
Yeah.
Thank you for having us.
Yeah.
We can't thank you enough.
(39:42):
Elena, this has been fantastic.
Thank you.
You're most welcome.
And I'm looking forward to see you in paneldiscussions.
Yeah.
I invite you as to be guests on our paneldiscussions where we will speak about
leadership.
So we meet other world class experts.
It would be great to continue this conversationin different format.
Thanks so much.
(40:03):
Excellent.
Yeah.
You're welcome.
All the best and see you soon.
Thanks.
Hello.
Hello.
Welcome to mindset to results.
And today, we have amazing people in ourstudio.
It's Marni Stockman and Koniglia, who are theauthors of the book Lead It Like Lhasa.
And we will speak about a very important topicabout leadership and not just leadership in
(00:27):
general, but really very effective leadership.
And formula of leadership that every businessowner, every entrepreneur can imply in his
business and see results.
Hi, Manin.
Hi, Nick.
Hi.
Thanks.
Hi, Elena.
Yeah.
We're excited to be here.
(00:48):
Yes.
Thank you so much for being guest on ourpodcast.
And I know that we are recording today amazingepisode that so many people will find valuable
and impact implement for in their business.
So, yes, you are coauthors of the book lead itlike Lasso.
It means that you were very inspired byprinciples which you learned from Ted Lasso
(01:16):
show.
So maybe let's start from that because I'm sureI'm sure that not all people know about Ted
Lasso and his show.
So let's introduce our listeners first to whatTed Lasso show is and what principles of
leadership he shared with audience and that somany people use them and it helped them to grow
(01:41):
and scale their successful business.
Yeah, that's a lot to cover in just an introbut we can do it.
So first we like to say that there are twotypes of people in the world, people who love
Ted Lasso and people who just haven't seen ityet.
So for the folks listening that haven't seenit, it really is if you watch it with an eye on
(02:03):
leadership, it is a masterclass in and ofitself.
Not everyone watches it for that intent.
If you just wanna watch it to laugh and cry andamazing comedy, also highly recommend but the
show definitely is not the show that you justwatch once and let it pass.
(02:26):
It makes you wanna be better which is whatinspired us to use it as a writing, right?
You wouldn't wanna write a book about somethingthat was sort of a one and done situation.
This book makes people want to be better.
I'll give a little bit of what who Ted Lassowas and then Nick can parallel it with kind of
the leadership elements that we wrote the bookabout.
(02:47):
So, Ted Lasso was an American football coachwho went to The UK to coach football which we
in America call soccer, right?
So, he freely said there was an entire internetof things he didn't know about soccer but what
we quickly learn is that he knows a lot aboutleadership and development and that is the
(03:12):
magic that is Ted Lasso.
So I'll pass it to Nick because he's the onethat found Ted Lasso first.
Yeah, I mean, I think our whole notion, so ourbook, Lead It Like Lasso, is not just reciting
what happens in the show.
It was pulling, like Marni said, the lessonsfrom the show and marrying that and
(03:37):
accompanying that with our experience inleadership, and we have a lot of it.
Know, we not only did have we been inleadership positions, Marnie has her doctorate
in leadership.
I've been in executive leadership for twodecades plus, but we married the principles of
the show to our experiences in in the corporateworld.
(04:00):
We also started scaled and exited from anotherbusiness we started ourselves, And we also
marry it to business principles and leadershiplessons from the real world and with people
that you would recognize.
So the big themes are around servantleadership.
(04:22):
How do we develop people, right?
And how is our mission focused on the growth ofpeople to lead successful organizations or
teams?
But the other thing that we talk about quiteexplicitly is about personal leadership.
(04:43):
We have a saying in the book, there's a sayingin the show in Ted Lasso, Football is life.
Our saying is leadership is life, and youcannot lead others without leading yourself
first.
And that is an underlying principle andframework that we strongly believe in and we
talk about all the time, both in our book andin our speaking engagements beyond that.
(05:08):
Yes.
So great principle because it is not thatbusiness is separate from you.
Business is extension who you are.
Yes.
Extension of your core values, extension ofyour big goals and your attitude.
And when you know how to lead yourself, thenonly you can lead other people.
(05:30):
Yes.
And also, when you grow business, it should betotally aligned with who you are.
And this is how you find people to be membersof your team, you have to help them also see
your values.
Yes?
And the vision which you have.
So they get excited about this.
(05:50):
And this is how you can lead these people.
Yes, by being example of who you are andbecoming best version of yourself and helping
other people to become best version ofthemselves.
This is how big team says it's built.
Exactly.
100%.
Like, show up as your authentic self andproject that, like the way you project your
(06:12):
core values like you mentioned is how theculture plays out in the company and then yeah,
you wanna align the folks that work with you tothat.
Don't have to be aligned.
And that is one thing that's a little bitdifferent.
We present in our book a framework, aleadership framework.
And if you look at a lot of leadershipframeworks, they typically start with vision
(06:38):
and strategy.
And while we believe that's important, we kindof take a unique perspective of it, and this
hammers home exactly the point you were saying,Elena, is we start with core values.
Because understanding yourself, how to alignyour core values, ensure it's it's in match
with culture, which is how your core valuesactually play out, is is really the foundation
(07:04):
to personal success.
It's found it's the foundation toorganizational success and general success
overall.
Yes.
And I think also to see the value in people.
They see their uniqueness.
Yes.
And encourage them also to see that.
And because sometimes people don't know what isgood in them.
(07:27):
They don't see their potential.
And I think that really the true leader issomeone who see in people their those talent.
Yes.
And encourage them to develop those talents tobring into the surface and lead everyone to
(07:47):
focus on their strength, on their genius.
This is how everybody really enjoying becausethey focus on their strength, and other part of
teams are also collected to complement eachother.
So tell me about your perspective about this.
(08:09):
Well, I think our perspective is we couldn'tagree with that more.
My favorite episode in Ted Lasso is actuallywhere he puts a gift in everybody's locker and
that gift is a book that is uniquely it showsthe character who they could become and gives
them a growth path.
(08:30):
So we talk about that quite a bit in knowingwho you are is critical but understanding how
you can use your core values to make them yoursuperpower is really what unlocks the best
version of everyone.
And I would add to that and to what both of youare saying, one of the most famously quoted
(08:55):
lines in the show, Ted Lasso, is to be curiousand not judgmental.
And I think not only recognizing the strengthsof others, but really being intentional in
being curious about what those strengths are.
And I think that showed out day after day afterday or episode after episode after episode
(09:21):
within Ted Lasso just how curious he was tofind out what other people were thinking, how
they felt, what their strengths were, whattheir areas for growth were.
And when we watched the show, and this is whywe wrote the book using that show as a
relatable reference, is it very much remindedboth Marni and myself how we were successful
(09:44):
building a company from scratch to amultimillion dollar organization.
It was that curiosity, not only about people,but about environments, about customers, what
have you.
And that's really what motivated us to kind ofuse that as a relatability reference to the
(10:05):
book itself.
Yeah.
Could you please share more about how youimplemented these principles?
Maybe some examples or some practices where youtook these principles, implemented, and you saw
success so our audience also can get somepractical practical tips which they can also
(10:26):
implement in their business?
So I'm gonna start with, you know, I mentionedthat Ted Lasso was an American football coach,
game and coach soccer, which he knew nothingabout.
Nick and I came from the education world andbuilt software for IT business owners.
So, we did not know the space, the language,the acronyms, anything along the way and so we
(10:54):
had to be curious, not judgmental and one ofthe things that we did was have, we basically
Nick was on the development side, right?
He ran all of that world and he, they wouldbuild an agile product and then get feedback
from the clients and he was always askingquestions and curious about how they were using
(11:19):
it and how it could be better.
So it was a conversation constantly between thecompany and our clients that they were
informing the product.
So that whole notion of be curious, so one ofNick's superpowers is he's a great listener and
a great question asker and so he could say,this is what we think we've heard and this is
(11:43):
what we think you're asking for and this is theproblem we're hearing.
This is the way we'd like to present thesolution.
So, he is so I think that's one of the elementsthat anyone could take away to their business
which is that if you listen to your customersand have that conversation, that can help you
(12:07):
grow the right way as opposed to makingassumptions of what you think they want.
Nick, I probably botched that a bit from yourperspective.
How would you fix that?
No.
I I I think I think you nailed it.
I'm sorry, Elena.
Go ahead.
Yeah.
Yes.
I'm managing my camera just to get off, so wejust continue.
(12:31):
Yeah.
I you know, interesting how we really, like, Ifeel it not only our color matches, but really
our thoughts.
I was just thinking about importance of hearingand listening and feedback, getting feedback
from people you work with so, you know, thatthey really understand what you tell them,
right, and what you mean.
(12:52):
And you know that they are tuned in yourvision, and also you have always exchange of
the feedback.
And then you can together tune that you knowthat everyone are in the same line.
A 100%.
We could not agree more.
And that's that's really, I think, where howMarni and I came to be at this point where we
(13:14):
are today.
She mentioned earlier that we were in educationtechnology, and tying it all together, the
reason why we got out of that and started ourown business is because we found ourselves in a
position where our core values, which was verymuch based upon the whole notion of helping
(13:37):
other people.
That's what drives both Marni and myself, isreally service oriented problem solving,
helping other people.
And that was very much in conflict with the Itwasn't in conflict with what the stated core
values of the company that we worked for was,but it was in conflict with actually how it
(13:58):
played out because while we were trying toservice people, they were cutting our staffs by
50% and they were taking away valuableresources for us.
And that feedback loop was missing, right?
Although it was recognizable, it was obvious tous, the people we were working for did not
(14:18):
recognize that.
So that's what made both Marni and myselfdecide, hey, we are gonna launch a company that
is based on our core values.
And our core values are not only about creatingraving fans, but about effective communication
and listening.
(14:39):
And that has ultimately resulted in a verysuccessful business initiative, and it's
resulted in our whole methodology that we talkabout constantly.
So Elena, you know, we are speaking the samelanguage here.
You are you are everything that you're sayingis what we put in our book, what we advocate,
(15:02):
what we preach, and what we firmly believe in.
Yeah.
I really appreciate that.
And let's speak about startups like smallbusinesses.
What you would recommend companies in the justearly beginning?
Because we all understand how important is tocreate the culture.
(15:23):
Yeah.
The culture where everyone knows that they'reappreciated, heard, valued, and they have like,
in they there is a culture when people canopenly express themselves without being afraid
that they will be judged or somehow bullied.
(15:44):
Yes.
Yeah.
Let's speak about this.
So, I mean, I think it I'll start this, Martin.
You continue here.
It starts with identifying what you what youare as a company, your core values, and then
communicating those and bringing on people whohave a shared core value set.
(16:04):
100%, that's where it starts.
Now, we can talk about some tools, and we lista number of them in our book in terms of how to
continue on with that momentum to ensure yourculture is the right way.
One of the things we talk about is having apersonal operating system, going through that
that work as individuals within anorganization, whether you're one person, two
(16:28):
people, four people, what have you, and trulydocument and identify what motivates you, what
demotivates you, what your interests are, andshare that out because it's really hard to work
effectively as a team where you don't havethat, and you need that security, right?
(16:50):
You need to feel safe.
And part of that is communicating that out tothe team, you know, the types of things that
make you feel safe.
And have that outlined in our book aboutcreating that personal operating system.
We have so many other things, Marni.
What am I missing?
Well, mean, along with the personal operatingsystem is we have a communication guide, which
(17:14):
is sort of a working with me doc.
And the importance of this, we didn't have thiswhen we were when we hired our first employee
but we did when we hired our third employeebecause we had to fire the first one and we had
to let the first one go because I thought, youknow, we're working remotely, thought we had
(17:36):
communicated the expectations, the goals, thetactics, the strategies, but the job wasn't
getting done and so, you know, and I definitelytake that to heart.
She reported to me and when it didn't work, wedid a lot of reflection on how could we have
avoided that and and some of it came down tocommunication and expectation around
(17:59):
communications.
So, we built a communication guide andonboarding started with them seeing our
community, you know, like, this is how tocommunicate with me.
Was very clear of what the expectations wereand then we would have the folks we onboarded
then develop their own communication guide andif folks want a blank template, they can check
(18:23):
it out at leaveitlikeblasto. It doesn't
It doesn't take an Email or anything.
You can just go see what those look like but tounderstand how folks communicate and that we're
open about like the likes, the dislikes,strengths, and weaknesses, etcetera.
Made for better better company culture becausethey could see how we were supporting our core
(18:45):
values.
Okay.
Great.
So now we will post this Yes.
And we discussed about leadership that startsfrom yourself.
So let's speak more about this.
What is included in self leadership?
Well, you've mentioned the first part which iscore values.
(19:07):
It's really understanding yourself.
As a matter of fact, Harvard Business Reviewsays that the number one indicator of
leadership success is self awareness.
So, we're not just suggesting it off of whatwe've seen on a you know, fictional fictional
TV show, right?
There's there's studies behind that.
So, you have to start there for sure andunderstand how those behaviors play out but
(19:34):
beyond that, there's also needing to set avision for where you want to head.
So, we talk about setting smart goals, youknow, looking five, ten years out and then
breaking that down into specifics and tacticalpieces of what you need but one of my favorite
parts to think about is when we talk about atthe end of the book which is legacy.
(19:55):
Think about who you wanna be when you retire orwhat do you want in your obituary to be said
about you because that helps you create thoseguide rails that will really help you make
decisions that align with your core values.
Yeah.
I'll just add to that.
(20:17):
I think it's important when we talk aboutpersonal leadership and we talk about this
quite a bit.
There's more than one way to lead.
And in reality, everyone is a leader.
Whether in the boardroom, what we think oftraditional leadership as a CEO or something,
(20:39):
or a locker room, or a classroom, or even yourliving room.
It doesn't matter where you're at.
Everybody is a leader themselves.
That's the first thing to recognize.
And then the second thing is, like I said justa second ago, it is there's different ways to
lead.
Like, Marni has a very different leadershipstyle than I have, and that's fine.
(21:01):
That is that is absolutely okay.
I'm am, at my heart, I'm quite an introvertedperson, but that brings some different skills
than somebody who might be more extroverted andmore life of the party.
I think I think one thing we try to point outin the in in the book specifically, we do it
(21:25):
through a character assessment.
Which type of leader are you?
Is is really to, number one, accept the factthat there's more than one way to lead.
And number two, once you do that, understandwho you are, understand what your strengths
are, and then also understand what your areasfor improvement are.
(21:45):
Yeah, great.
And also I would add that attitude isimportant.
Yes.
Attitude.
Yes.
Yes.
Attitude towards yourself, life will determinelife attitude towards us.
And even today, yes, different things canhappen.
Yes.
Even camera can get off during podcast.
(22:10):
And there are different different way.
Yeah.
Somebody can just freeze and just startpanicking what to do, you know that there are
always the way, and you just can go analyzewhat you can do better and find solution as
without reacting and without experiencingdifferent negative emotions.
(22:33):
And so I think this is very important for theleader to to know how to have the right
attitude for different situation, forunexpected situation, for different conflicts
between people, how to manage them.
And it also relates to emotional intelligence.
(22:53):
Because I think emotional intelligence forreader is very important.
Yeah.
Because different situation can come, and youhave to not only control yourself, but also
show other people, yes, that everything isokay, everything is under control, that they
can really come down and know that there is theguidance and all will be sorted out.
(23:18):
Yeah, couldn't, we could not agree with youmore.
Mean, we have two, two big parts of our bookthat are dedicated towards adaptability and
resilience, which is how you do respond tosomething.
And then we have another section all aroundemotional intelligence.
In reality, at the end of the day, those whoincrease and expand and continually develop
(23:43):
their emotional intelligence really are theones that are not only successful, but are
living really the least anxious life, right?
The least stressful life.
So we could not agree more with you.
And the beauty of it is just like leadership,you can develop these skills over time.
(24:07):
You have to work on it.
Know, talk, I'll talk about continuouslearning.
It's critically important that you keepexpanding and expanding, and people aren't just
born emotionally intelligent, right?
Some, their EQ, you know, have an inclinationto be more at the higher end of the EQ scale,
(24:28):
but everybody can learn to develop those skillsand that's really important for people to
understand.
Yeah, definitely.
Mani, do you want to add anything about this?
Well, I think the last thing that Nick said iscritically important, that you can learn and
work on these skills but you have to work onthose skills, right?
(24:51):
One thing I found interesting is when we wereresearching some of the servant leadership
traits, empathy comes up.
One thing that Ted Las was known for was beingempathetic and I don't know that people would
think about how do I practice being moreempathetic?
What do I, how do I work on that?
(25:12):
That sounds hard to do.
Is that something just I'm just naturallysupposed to feel empathetic and I read a study
that reading fiction books is actually astrategy for how to improve your empathy
because when you read fiction, you are puttingyourself in the mindset of someone else and you
(25:35):
can see a story outside of yourself and Ithought, well, that's a great practical, easy
to do tip that might not think about whileyou're just binge reading some, you know, some
fiction story for fun.
You actually are working on your own empathy atthe same time.
Yes.
I like that you said about that empathy and Ibelieve that empathy starts from empathy to
(25:59):
yourself.
Oh, yeah.
And I'll I mean, that's where so Ted had panicattacks in the show.
I've had panic attacks.
Nick has had panic attacks.
And much of that comes down to really how howyou are not being empathetic to to yourself.
So I think that is really important to thinkabout.
(26:21):
Yeah.
Yes.
Because in business, I believe that it is notabout pushing hard something.
It is being aligned.
Yes.
Aligned with what you do and with your goals.
And this is doing things naturally.
And many business owners, have big goals, butthey think that I have just to push hard.
I have to do more.
(26:41):
I have to demand more from people.
And usually, it just brings to burnout anddifferent depressions and insomnia.
And so but when people learn to be empath haveempathy for themselves and celebrate even small
wins.
Yes.
Because sometimes we have this saboteurs, like,for example, judge, which always says that it
(27:06):
is not enough.
That you achieve something and say, oh, youcould do better.
And so I think this is understanding in whichstate like ability to shift from that saboteurs
negative state to a sage state that is positiveto see people what they already accomplished
(27:27):
and celebrate their wins and create thatpositive environment that people are
encouraged.
They're not just pushed and just you can dobetter.
Yeah.
But really encouraged to do better because theysee their potential by celebrating what they
already done.
So you you mentioned something that broughtanother point to mind.
(27:47):
You know, we talked about Nick mentioned how wehave a character assessment in the book that
you can see which type of archetype of leaderthat you are and it's critically important that
not everyone in your company is the same typeof leader because you really need different
minds to look at angles, different ways and so,you know, that is one thing why Nick and I work
(28:11):
well together.
Ted Lasso had his Diamond Dogs.
So, that was his challenge network or supportgroup and being able to when you can be
empathetic and recognize the strengths ofothers as well as yourself and how they fit
together, right?
It's rising tide lifts all ships because youneed to borrow from everyone's strengths and to
(28:34):
support your own weaknesses by having a networkand I think that's another thing that folks can
do for both personal leadership as well aswithin the company is to really surround
yourself with those folks that support you butalso push you to make you better.
Yeah.
Great.
And I also know very interesting tool ortechnique to create empathy.
(28:56):
And this is to look at your photo when you werea small child.
And you.
Yes.
Yes.
So when you look at yourself as you were asmall child and you look at your eyes, like,
this is such such a, like, eyes with so much,like, pure essence of who you are in that small
(29:17):
age, you naturally feel empathy to that child.
And then you you and they said this is you.
So you look at yourself as that pure yourself.
Yes.
Like, that child.
And also everybody in company can just bringtheir photos, and people can Yeah.
Look at their photos and see that as theirchild.
(29:40):
So it it brings, like it is automatically putus in that sage sage mode because we don't
judge our child.
We don't just do critics to critic to children.
And, like, seeing them as a small child, likemaybe two years, three years old, it also helps
(30:02):
to be in that stage of love and empathy.
Yes, this is one of the techniques.
So I love that, right?
Because it's something actionable.
I think when we talk about anything personaldevelopment wise, right, how to grow personal
growth, how to become the best version of you,right?
(30:25):
It's all about, you know, one thing that's veryimportant to both Marni and myself is let's
brainstorm and provide actionable ideas.
And looking at that photograph of yourself whenyou're younger in terms of developing empathy,
that's a great way to do that.
It's a great activity.
Marni and I, in the book, we talk about, wedon't just talk about identifying your core
(30:51):
values or SMART goals or understanding whatyour legacy is.
We also give people actionable activities toactually do that.
And they're not just boring, let's fill outthis form type activities, they're fun
activities.
Looking at yourself as a child or having thecompany bring in photographs of everybody who's
(31:13):
younger, that's kind of fun.
And that is one of our core values, is to havefun.
And we might just steal that, Elena, because Ithink that's a great idea.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because when you look at the child's eyes, youjust see that true essence.
Yes.
We are.
And this also can remind people that what theywere dreaming about is to Mhmm.
(31:37):
Again, like, inspire that in in themselves todream because we know that we all were dreaming
when we were very small.
But what happened when we went to school, wetold that, oh, like, stop the dreaming.
Dream is just for small little babies.
And now you now you have to be logical.
(32:00):
You have to know how to do things.
And from then, we forgot how to dream.
Yes?
And then Yeah.
People become like those robots, like thosemachines that don't often go for even
imagination to visualization to see how theirlife can be, what they really can be.
(32:21):
Yes.
And so bringing those small children pictures,it can really remind them what they who they
truly are.
Yes.
Without all these viruses which came after whenwe grow up, it's accumulated so many different
cliches.
What we talk about while what our failureswere.
(32:42):
So it is really so good when we come back towho we truly were and who we truly are and
again start dreaming and then connect our bigdreams to company big dreams.
Yes.
And our values to company values.
And this can create this loving atmospherewhere everybody can grow and achieve their
(33:05):
dreams, helping company to achieve theirs.
Love it.
Love that.
Yes.
And another question and another question, Ithink last question, because this is really so
amazing topic.
And another question about resilience.
Yes.
Because we already discussed that resilience isso important.
(33:28):
So what you would suggest from your experienceand also from Ted Lasso show, how people can
cultivate their resilience because this is avery important feature and quality of every
leader.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I I think that the single biggest thingthat you can do to become a more resilient
(33:56):
person is to go after things and take risks.
I think the fact of the matter is, and this wasme when I was younger in my 20s, many, many,
many, many years ago, right?
I was very safe.
Security was a big deal to me, right?
But you realize over time that when you thenget put into a situation that stretches you or
(34:24):
an an issue a situation of stress orchallenging situation that you're really not
used to, you know, being able to brainstormways on how to get beyond that.
So I I think it's really hard to developresilience unless you put yourself out there
and set higher and higher goals.
(34:46):
Now, obviously, you need to accompany that withthe right attitude.
You talked about this earlier, Elena, beingpositive.
But from our perspective, it is very importantfrom a resilience standpoint to put yourself in
a position to have to be resilient, to takerisks.
(35:07):
You know, they don't have to be crazy risks.
I'm not gonna, you know, jump off of a bridgeand hope I can dive perfectly into a sea of
water, but put yourself in a position both froma personal growth and a professional growth
standpoint where, you know what?
I might get called out on this, it might not goexactly the way I want it to go, because at the
(35:29):
end of the day, resilience takes practice, andyour job is to continually raise that bar,
raise that bar, raise that bar so you have tobe resilient.
I yammered on there.
Marni, give us the right answer on resilience.
I think that's a perfect answer.
Taking risks, it's really you grow when itcomes to failure.
(35:52):
One other thing that comes to mind is we'verecently talked about this idea of a pre mortem
which is instead of waiting for something to gowrong and then figure out what just went wrong.
When you're thinking about trying something newor putting something out in the world, think
well like let's assume it went wrong andproblem solve what you could have done to avoid
(36:14):
it or how you would respond to it and when yourealize that the worst case scenario is really
not the worst case scenario then I think you'rewilling to take more risks.
Yes, I agree with both of you and I also canadd another perspective to this, that
resilience is built when we detach from currentsituation.
(36:39):
Yes.
When we see where we want to go, and we thinkand feel and act from that place.
And when we also have understanding that in whywe need big goals, because big goals are given
for us to grow.
If we just looking for certainty, there will beno grow in that because we will just do what we
(37:03):
already know to do.
Yes.
And we set just small goals, which we knowlogically how to achieve them.
So there is nothing new, and there is nogrowth.
But really, when we go for big things, yes, andthen we can think from there, this will help us
to be resilient because we will not we will notreact to small things because we're not at this
(37:26):
level.
We're already there.
And so this is how we get excited, inspired.
So we it gives us that fuel to go through evenwhen it feels hard.
So I'm gonna throw one more Ted Lasso quote inthere.
When he started this, They said it's a lot likechange.
Change is a lot like riding a horse.
If you're comfortable while you're doing it,you're probably doing it wrong.
(37:49):
Right?
So you need to get comfortable with beinguncomfortable, which I think is what you just
said.
Yeah.
Definitely.
And also another thing that I like how SteveJobs said that you can no never connect the
dots when you look forward.
You only can connect the dots when you lookbackwards.
So initially, you have to trust that somehowthese all dots will be connected.
(38:12):
So this is exactly about uncertainty.
You just have to have faith.
Believe in yourself that you can do it.
Because if you really have that big dream, bigdesire, as old Nightingale called it burning
desire, it means that you can give it.
You can do it because it wouldn't be given toyou if you wouldn't be able to do this.
(38:34):
It means that you are able to do that.
And then you you should have faith that, youknow, that there are an invisible forces, God,
universe, if you know how like, the laws, ifyou do right things, take first step, you will
see that other door will open.
So you don't need to see the all the root, yetall these steps.
(39:00):
Just focus on first step, do it right, and seewhat's there will be revealed.
Amen.
Yeah.
Another principle for this list.
Yes.
Thank you so much.
I really enjoyed our conversation, and I'm surethat our audience will get so much value of
(39:22):
this episode.
Is it something that you would like to sharewith us before we wrap up?
Maybe advice or something that you want toshare.
Well, I think you brought up the one word thatTed Lasso is known for, which is believe.
So that's a good one.
Yeah.
Thank you for having us.
Yeah.
We can't thank you enough.
(39:42):
Elena, this has been fantastic.
Thank you.
You're most welcome.
And I'm looking forward to see you in paneldiscussions.
Yeah.
I invite you as to be guests on our paneldiscussions where we will speak about
leadership.
So we meet other world class experts.
It would be great to continue this conversationin different format.
Thanks so much.
(40:03):
Excellent.
Yeah.
You're welcome.
All the best and see you soon.
Thanks.
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