June 20, 2025 • 30 mins
In this episode, Elena Apalkova hosts Alan Stevens, an expert in face profiling and communication. Alan shares his journey into the science of reading faces and how it enhances communication skills. They discuss the role of intuition and childhood experiences in understanding people better. The conversation highlights the importance of genuine interest and active listening in improving communication, along with the golden and platinum rules for business success. Alan emphasizes the impact of attitude and respect in leadership and introduces The Campfire Project, which focuses on personal growth through face profiling. The episode wraps up with insights on learning face profiling and maintaining an open mind, followed by a preview of future episodes.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
Hello.
Hello.
Welcome to mindset to results.
Today, our guest is Alan Steven, and he'sinternational profiling and communications
specialist.
Hi, Alan.
Good day, Elena.
How are you?
Great.
Great.
Thank you.
I am excited to speak about this topic, how toget best out of people.
(00:25):
And I'm very happy to have you today with us asa guest.
Tell us a little bit about yourself.
Why you do what you do?
Well, basically, as you've said, I'm aninternational profiling and communications
specialist.
I'm also the creator of the rapid traitprofiling system, which is proven to be one of
(00:45):
the most accurate and fastest ways to readpeople on the planet.
So knowing how to recognize their personalitiesat a glance, then when you're talking to them,
be able to change the way that you like to bespoken to to match the way that they need to be
spoken to.
And then from the feedback from their bodylanguage and expressions, know whether you've
read them right.
Is there something emotionally going on, andare they telling you the truth?
(01:08):
But, basically, using that last part not as alie detector, but as a truth seeker.
And the reason I do what I do is that for along time, I was dreadful at reading people.
I'd been through two divorces, a lot of brokenrelationships, and even had business partners
who emptied the bank out.
About two decades ago, I decided I had toimprove.
(01:29):
And through some chance meetings, I've beenworking with some other systems in the past,
but then, somebody said to me one day, you everlooked at reading faces?
And I've always had the attitude to life.
The most important thing you'll ever learn isthe next thing you'll learn after you think you
know everything.
So I searched the world, found some reallygreat people who were training and teaching in
those areas, trained with them, and then lookedat four different sciences and brought them
(01:54):
together into one package, which is humanpattern recognition, and referred to it as the
science and art of reading people.
So delivering it in in a an art form, you mightsay.
And that's me pretty much in a nutshell.
Yeah.
Very interesting.
Tell us please more about this.
What is the art to reading people, that ouraudience, can use?
(02:19):
Maybe you can share some tips what people canuse.
Well, I'd love to.
Because as you said, the the title of the daywas talking about how to get the best out of
people.
And the best way to do that is to meet them attheir level.
Talk to them in the way that they need and wantto be spoken to.
See, we all are different.
(02:40):
I'm analytical to agree degree.
I need a lot of information to be able to makea decision.
Now when I'm talking to somebody, I may talk tothem in the same way because that's the way I
like to be spoken to.
So, naturally, I think that they wanna bespoken to that way.
But then I find that that somebody just wantsthe least amount of information.
They just want the overview.
Just give me the overall story.
(03:02):
And if I'm interested, then tell me more.
And if I talk the way I like to be spoken to,I've lost connection with them straight away.
And so being able to look at someone's face andeven from their photographs, your facial
features will give away how you like to thinkand process, how you like to take information
in, how you like to process it, and how youlike to be treated as well.
(03:24):
And from that, we can then change the way thatwe like to be spoken to and talk to that person
in that same way that they wanna be spoken toand make an immediate connection.
And
so Interesting.
Well, the face gives away everything.
If you think about it, everything we feelinside, we express outwardly.
Our brain controls our muscle movements.
(03:46):
So if we think and concentrate in a certain wayand we pull the same expression over and over
working the muscles in our face, we're gonnacreate ridges and crevices that, therefore
gives away that our facial features are a roadmap to how we like to think and process.
And so if I can see someone's photograph, I'vegot their personality straight away.
(04:07):
And then I'd know, okay, I know how to changethe way I to speak to to them.
Because if I may, I know that you put flareinto the things that you do.
There's a bit of what I call dramaticappreciation.
And I know that when you're stressed, you liketo voice that with people.
You like to be able to talk to people aboutthat.
Someone like me has what I call aestheticappreciation.
(04:29):
That's too much energy for me, but I'll justwithdraw.
And if I'm working on something that I reallyhave to get my head around, somebody asking me
what's going on, you know, why are you goingquiet?
That I can find quite frustrating.
So if I know that you need to be able to voicewhat you're, you're feeling and I care, then
(04:49):
I'm going to go, okay.
Has it got anything to do with me?
If you say no, it hasn't.
Is there anything I can help you with?
And you say no.
Then it's a case of, well, okay.
You just want me to listen.
Is that right?
So do you want me to fix this, or do you wantme to listen?
And if you tell me that you just want me to,listen, and I know it's got nothing to do with
me, and I'm if I'm a friend, I I care for you,etcetera, I'm just going to stop and listen to
(05:14):
you.
And, therefore, those misunderstandings that wehave with other people start to disappear very
quickly.
Talk to the person in the way that they needand want to be spoken to, and the face will
give you all that information every time.
Mhmm.
Yeah.
Very interesting.
I usually look at people and photo, and I Ithink in I I think about the energy.
(05:41):
I I ask my intuition to pick up energy, and Ican feel that this is person who is calm or
person who is very kind.
Or yeah.
I I just use this method, yes, to to pick upenergy and connect with the person at that
(06:01):
energy level.
That's it.
Yeah.
See, everybody picks up energy.
We all you know, if you think about a youngchild, young children have the skill when
they're first born.
They learn to recognize faces very quickly.
Who's mom?
Who's dad?
Who are people I should be around and whoshouldn't I be around?
At the same time, they pick up the energies.
(06:23):
They pick up whether you're happy, you're sad,or whatever, and they respond to that
immediately.
As as we go get older, though, we get caught upin, you know, sports and going to school and
all the other activities in life, And the endresult from that is we then stop practicing
reading.
We don't need to as much.
We know who our family are.
We know the people we shouldn't be around.
(06:43):
They're all the ones that we should have aroundus.
And so we don't need to practice that as much.
It's just like any muscle muscle.
Like, we don't work it.
It atrophies.
And so but as we get older, some people willreally focus on the energy aspect, and they'll
pick that up in people.
And other times, others won't pick it up atall.
(07:04):
With what I do, I just teach people to get backwhat they had originally when they were young
children.
Because as I say to people, well, how oftenhave you listened to somebody and everything
they said sounded fine, but you had thatfeeling that something wasn't right?
You know?
You picked up the nonverbals.
Some people call it intuition.
I call it, the fact that people have actuallypicked it up.
(07:26):
They've seen that what they're saying doesn'tmatch what their their body's giving away,
their movements, their expressions, etcetera.
If somebody's talking to you and you'resupposed to having a serious conversation,
they're looking away all the time.
You'll feel that you can't trust them becausewhy aren't they looking at me, etcetera.
You know, at the same time, we need tounderstand what our cultural difference is
(07:50):
because some cultures won't look you in theeyes.
So if we know that, but, you know, does thatperson the rest of their body language and
their movements, everything, aligning with whatwe're looking at?
If it is, then we can trust them.
If it mismatch, then we know we can't trustthem.
And so this is where it all comes down.
It's a combination of the facial features, theexpressions.
(08:12):
At the same time, we also have that, as yousaid, that innate, intuition.
And some people are stronger than others.
You bring it all together, and you find thatyou're able to read people far more
effectively.
Yes.
Yes.
I think that, we all can communicate betterwhen we show genius genuine interest to people.
(08:35):
That's it.
Yes.
Because if person has interest to somebody andwant really to connect, he opens all his
senses.
Yes?
And, like, ability to see, hear what the personhe says.
And as you said, some features also listen toenergy, and it is happening when the person is
(09:03):
fully present.
Yes.
That knows that he's speaking with somebody andthinking about something else and also having
something in mind that he wants to say anddon't even listen to person.
So I think that this interest to people andreally ability to be present and meet the
(09:24):
person.
And at that moment when you're communicatingwith person, give your all intention.
Give you all presence.
And this is how you will connect.
Yes.
This is how communication will be reallyeffective.
See, everyone needs to realize that listeningis an activity.
(09:45):
It's an active activity.
You gotta be active in the process.
A lot of people, when somebody's speaking,they're they're not listening to the
conversation.
There's a conversation going on in their ownhead of what they're going to ask next.
And so when they're talking, they're thinkingabout what they're talking about.
So it's almost like everybody's schizophrenic.
We've all got two two people in our head at anygiven time.
(10:07):
The whole thing is we need to listen to theother person, understand what they're saying,
and respond to that.
Not listen to just, make a response, but listento understand more than anything else.
So the more I can understand the other person,where they're coming from, what they really
mean, etcetera, what they really the messagethey're trying to get across, then I can
connect with them far more effectively.
(10:29):
And people pick it up.
They know if you're listening.
They know if you're actually, understandingthem.
And as I always say to people, we've got twoeyes, two ears, and one mouth.
A lot of people will say, oh, you got, two earsand one mouth, but you've also got two eyes.
And you use all of those in that proportion.
So you're using the eyes and your ears morethan you're actually using your mouth.
(10:51):
And when you're using your mouth, you shouldask every possible question you can.
I always say to people, once you've asked everyquestion you can think of, ask one more.
And people will go, well, how can I ask onemore question if they've asked every question I
can think of?
Well, the last one is, from what you've beentelling me, this is what I understand.
Have I got it right?
(11:11):
And if the person says, yes, you have, theyknow that you've been listening.
You've got that rapport.
You've got a connection with them.
Now if they say no and they correct you onthings, that's even better again because now
you're you're you're into a deeper conconversation.
And when it comes to selling, for instance, Iknow there's a big push to it's always push to
(11:34):
get yeses from people.
But a negotiation doesn't start until you get ano.
So by asking that question, from what Iunderstand, this is what you know, from what
you've said and what I've taken in, this is howI've understood it.
Is that right?
And the person says no.
You go, well, great.
Well, tell me more about that.
Now they really know you're listening.
(11:55):
And because they're now talking, now you've gota communication going, and that's when you can
negotiate if you're looking at trying to get amessage across and getting them to do something
that, earlier on, they didn't wanna do.
Yeah.
Like,
getting your kids to eat their broccoli, forinstance, is a challenge.
(12:16):
Getting, you know, finding the right partnerand, having that partner accept that you wanna
be with them for the rest of your life.
All of those are sales.
All of those are negotiations.
The same as in business when we're sellingproducts and services.
They're all negotiations.
And that always starts when you can get a realconversation going, not just presenting to the
(12:37):
other person, but they've having communicationbackwards and forwards.
And you're communicating and discussing things,and that's when you really get to a deeper
understanding.
You get to a deeper connection, and you don'thave to try and mirror and match their
movements or anything else, you'll find thatwhen you've got that conversation going at that
level, you're both doing it naturally.
They're mirroring and matching you, and you'remirroring and matching them.
(13:00):
And when you realize that's happening and youweren't even thinking about doing that, that's
when you know you've really got that deepconnection.
Yeah.
So I like how you said that meet people at thelevel.
And in order to understand their level, youhave to know how they think, how they process
information, and what they want from what theyexpect from this meeting.
(13:24):
That's it.
And only then you can present that the way thatthey can digest.
Interesting thing that people processinformation and see receive information so
differently.
The same information is received differently byother people.
And when we say something, we mean something.
(13:47):
But it doesn't mean that the person who listensto us and hears us that exactly get the meaning
which we want to say.
Is how it is important to make sure that youreally understood what the person wanted to say
you.
(14:07):
Because everyone is so different, and everyone,thinks in pictures.
And all these pictures how he thinks, it isrelated to his personality, to his background,
and everything else.
So it is not exact match that we say somethingand that person exactly will hear what we say
(14:28):
because there are so many different componentsinvolved.
And by tuning into his energy, to hisfrequency, to his channel, by other words, will
help us to get, like, that symphonic orchestrathat we can start playing in unison, yeah, with
(14:49):
this person.
And for this
That's it.
Listen and ask questions to make sure that wereally get what it who is this person?
How what how he likes to speak?
Is he speaking fast or he speak slow?
And so we have to tune ourselves to his eventemper, yes, to conversation so he feels that
(15:12):
we matches his energy, and he feelscomfortable.
That's it.
See, I talk fast when I'm talking to a lot ofpeople.
So at times, I remind myself to slow down.
But if I'm lecturing with a large class, I justtell everybody if I'm talking really fast, then
listen faster.
But when it comes to really connecting withsomebody, you can't do that.
(15:33):
You've got to understand them and talk to themat their level.
It's the same as if you were talking to a youngchild.
We have you know, we we don't use the languagewe would use with an adult.
We'd change the word structure.
We'd use more simple words that they wouldunderstand.
Always meet the other person at their levelwhere they are.
But also then whatever they're saying, alwaysconfirm what they've said because, as you said,
(15:57):
somebody may say something and we assumethey've said meant something else, and we get
it totally wrong.
Next thing you know, we're saying, well, that'swhat you told me.
And the other person's saying, well, that's notwhat I said.
And when we stopped momentarily, we went, hangon.
Okay.
You said something, but what I took it wasthis.
Where did I get it wrong?
(16:19):
If the person then goes, well, this is what Ireally meant to try and get across, then you
can you're in a conversation.
You get to that better point.
Never assume that you've heard the other personaccurately without asking them or confirming
from what you've been telling me, this is whatI've understood.
Is it right?
(16:39):
And because if you yeah.
Then that's a simple question.
It's one that everybody can ask in everyconversation with other people, and they'll
always get a positive response back.
I never get the other person saying, oh, aren'tyou listening?
If they do, then it's a case of, well, I justwant to make sure I got it right because it's
important to me that I I've listened to youright.
I've got the information right.
That's gotta be right right with you or truewith you as well.
(17:02):
The person's gotta say yes, and they go, okay.
Well, as I said, what you told me, this is whatI understood.
As I said, have I got it right?
And straight away, you're back into thatconversation.
So it's just because a lot of people, we'retrying to get our message across, and we get
upset when people don't get it immediately.
But quite often, it's coming out the way wewant to we need to express it.
(17:25):
It's not getting to them in the way that theyneed to hear it.
And so as you said, if I slow down, understandthat other person's personality more
effectively, talk to them in a way that theyneed to be spoken to from what their face is
telling me, then the facial features will giveme that information.
And then as I said, while I'm talking, I've gotthat body language, the expressions on their
(17:47):
face, all those things giving me feedback ifI'm on track.
And the moment I see something there that's notcongruent, the things that have slightly gone
off where I might be talking about somethinghappy and there's a a lack of a smile there,
then I know that they're not taking it the wayI'm trying to relay it to them, how I'm trying
to speak it.
So then I can actually change the way I'mtalking or confirm and just ask them, well,
(18:11):
this is what I was trying to get a is that theway you've understood it?
I can actually ask them if they've understoodit.
And so being active in the communication.
So when I'm talking, I'm always looking at theother person.
I'm looking for the feedback.
Have I connected with them?
Do they understand what I'm talking about?
Is there a better way that I could beexplaining this?
(18:31):
Because the focus then is off me.
It's on them.
Whereas everybody else is in that role wherethey want to get a message across, so they're
only listening to respond to that person.
They're not actually listening to understandwhat the person's saying.
And so they've got the the going on in theirown head when they're listening, and then the
(18:52):
conversation come out of their mouth when theyfinally get the opportunity to speak.
And you get two people doing that, talking toeach other, both of them walk away with no idea
what the other one was talking about and quiteoften walk away with a misconception or
believing the other person said something thatthey didn't even say at all.
Always meet the other person at their level.
(19:14):
Yes.
And this is, what came to my mind when you weretelling this, what, I learned from Bob Proctor.
He also learned it from his mentor.
And he said that there is the golden rule.
Always meet the person and speak to him as heis the most important person in the world.
(19:38):
That's it.
So there's the golden rule, as we call it,which is treat others as we would have them
treat us.
Mhmm.
That's right when it comes to respect.
But the platinum rule is when it comes tocommunication, speak to the other person in the
way that they would have us speak to them,which is what you virtually just said then
because that makes the other person feel thatthey're the most important person in the room.
(20:02):
But you're really interested in what they'resaying.
And at that point, you'll get to a fasterconnection.
You'll get that rapport much faster.
If they're work colleagues or anything likethat, you'll have loyalty from them as well.
And this is extremely important for businessowners and executives to be able to talk to all
their frontline people, their customers, theirsuppliers in that particular way.
(20:26):
Because if they do, they'll have loyal clientcustomers.
They will keep coming back.
They'll have, suppliers who always put themfirst over their competitors, and they'll have,
their work colleague work, people working inthe business diligently so they can go and work
on their business.
Because a big catch for a cry we a cry we havewith all businesses is I need to work on my
(20:48):
business to grow it.
Well, you can't do that if you've got nobody inthe business working in it.
And a lot of managers get it wrong becausethey're micromanaging their people, and so
nobody's doing what they could they're whatthey could possibly do at the highest level
because they're only doing what they have to doto get by without getting into trouble.
(21:09):
But if you meet your staff and talk to them inthe right way, they'll become more productive.
They'll become more loyal.
They feel that they belong.
They contribute.
They value that they have a place, and they'llbe far more effective.
And if you're doing that, you can go onholidays, and the company will not only
survive, it will grow in your absence.
That's when you know you can definitely work onyour business.
(21:32):
These are the important things to be able toconnect with people to be able to do that.
Yes.
And another one rule, which I like so much,leave people with impression of increase.
Like, keep keep leave them in the place thatthey feel better than they did before they met
(21:53):
you.
That's it.
I mean, it's the old golden rule of always leadthe planet in a better place than you found it.
You know?
The environment, people around you, everybody.
Make everybody feel that they were special,that they belong, they contribute, they valued,
etcetera.
And you'll always have that loyalty.
You'll always find that every conversation youhave is a pleasant one.
(22:16):
Yes.
I've had conversations with people when I firstmet them who have been really angry at, the
organization or the, you know, peep otherpeople who have what other people have done.
And in no time at all, I've got a strong allyin that person.
Certainly, of course, I meet them at theirlevel.
I understand.
I connect with them.
They feel that they've got somebody who'sactually listening to them, who's really
(22:40):
concerned of an interest in helping themthrough their problem.
So when it comes to I people ask me, am I asalesman?
A lot of people buy from me, but I don't sellanything other than sell myself.
In that, I build a connection with them.
And with that, the end result is that, you'llalways have people coming back to you.
(23:01):
This is how you have loyal clients.
This is how you have staff who really want tobe there on Monday.
And sometimes they're looking at it on a Fridaygoing, oh, I've got two days off, but I'll be
back at work on Monday with a smile on theirface.
When you got that sort of situation, you've gota business that's going to flourish.
And if you're a business owner, you're gonnamake a lot of money.
(23:23):
Yeah.
Attitude is very important.
Attitude for ourselves to people, to life, tobusiness.
Attitude is the key word as old said, that itis the secret, the the main word, which, is,
like, foundation for success, attitude.
Right?
(23:43):
And the way how we communicate also comes fromattitude, from respect, from love, from
compassion.
So we are not only hearing ourselves, but weare able to listen, and we are able to, hear
people seeing the situation from theirperspective.
And then we can make the whole picture ofsituation when we're not only looking from our,
(24:10):
like, pin pie, yes, which we got.
But when we collect opinion of people, theirviews, and then when we can lead by example and
lead by gating all the picture and putting allpeople into consideration that everybody
That's it.
Feel short, appreciated, supported, feel freeto share their opinion.
(24:37):
Yes.
This is environment which will make people liketo be in and, grow together, develop together,
have common goal.
That's it.
See, when I many, many years ago, severaldecades ago now, I used to work with our
national telephone carrier.
And when I took redundancy and left theorganization, half my staff wanted to resign
(25:01):
and come with me because I knew I was startinga business outside of, you know, my finally
starting my first business.
And, we had the highest performance inAustralia in the area in which we worked.
We had clients who loved us, and we're alwaysunder budget.
And all our folks, we we installed all thecomputer links out of Newcastle across the
country.
(25:21):
We installed them and we main maintained it.
So if there's a fault, we always got that wellunderneath the the the you know, the there was
an allocated time to get faults fixed.
We always fixed them faster.
We always had clients that loved us.
My staff worked their tails off.
They worked really hard, but yet half of themwanted to resign and come with me when I left.
Because I realized the connection I had withpeople, if I respected them and showed them how
(25:46):
I valued them and gave them their their time,that connection, it worked really well.
I did the same in the surf club as a surflifesaver when I left the club there.
It's always been that case.
Then I've, what was about almost seven yearsago now, I created the campfire project, which
is a safe place for men and women from aroundthe world, adults, and that from all over the
(26:09):
world to be able to come together and share thestories I've never been able to share with
anybody before.
And for them to feel comfortable and talk aboutwell, they haven't told their partners.
They haven't told their their families.
They haven't told their counselors, evenpsychologists or psychiatrists.
And within five minutes, they're opening up andtelling me their life stories.
And the only reason that can happen is that I'mfocused on them.
(26:31):
They pick that up so that instant connection.
This is why the, the profiling side of thingsmade life for me so much easier.
Because as I said before all of that, twodivorces, a lot of broken relationships because
I didn't have these skills.
I had a desire to build relationships butdidn't know how to do it.
But, as I said, over two decades ago now, Itook on the, the face profiling side of things.
(26:56):
I'd had body language and my NLP masters and awhole bunch of other, what you call it,
qualifications before that, but it was the faceprofiling that brought it all together for me.
And so, you know, to have somebody open up andtell you their life story and feel comfortable
doing it when they've never been able to shareit with somebody before, you know, I'm
(27:17):
definitely a product of what I teach.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Amazing.
Amazing.
And I'm sure that people who listening to us,they would like to know more about learning
from faces.
Yes.
Learning and connecting with people.
And, we will put these links for your programsin the description so people can That
(27:43):
would be good.
There is a link there to a free course if theywanna get rid of it.
Because the old saying is that the proof of thepudding is in the eating.
It's like, I can tell you all the things thatI've done and how good this stuff is, but until
you try it yourself, it's like a chef said, youcan be there and saying I'm a great chef and
everything, but it's not until you taste hishis or her food that you know whether they're
(28:08):
any good.
That's why I always say to people, there's afree course on my, website.
You can go and click on that.
That'll give you some traits you can playaround with.
You can go and test them for yourself and seehow well and how quickly you can start to build
relationships with people.
And then from there, they wanna talk further,I'm always happy to have another chat.
(28:28):
Yeah.
Thank you so much, Alan.
It was so what we just discussed and what youshared.
I appreciate, and I'm sure that our audience,everyone who listen will like to learn from you
starting from that course and then, of course,connect with you to know more how to work with
you.
What is the one advice, if it would be one,what you would, like to share before we wrap up
(28:54):
this episode?
Well, one of the things is that, you know, wesometimes just take everything on board and
accept it, or we just reject everything becauseit doesn't sound right.
As I said, the most important thing I'll everlearn is the next thing I learn after I think I
know everything.
So I always say to people, have an open mind.
Listen to everybody.
Take it all in.
But then work out what works for you, whatdoesn't work for you, and add your own flavor
(29:19):
to it as well.
And I think that was what Bruce Lee had said inhis martial arts.
At the same time, there's an Arabic saying thatsays, trust everybody, but lock up your camels
at night.
As I say, listen to everybody, take all theinformation in, and then assess it for yourself
and go, okay.
Does this work for me?
How can it work for me?
Trial it out and everything else, and thendiscount what doesn't and maintain and keep
(29:44):
what does.
But if you don't have an open mind, you'llnever get the opportunity to do that.
Yeah.
Such amazing advice.
Thank you so much, Alan.
And
My pleasure.
Look forward to see you again in our furtherepisodes.
Fantastic.
Thank you very much.
You're most welcome.
Hello.
Hello.
Welcome to mindset to results.
Today, our guest is Alan Steven, and he'sinternational profiling and communications
specialist.
Hi, Alan.
Good day, Elena.
How are you?
Great.
Great.
Thank you.
I am excited to speak about this topic, how toget best out of people.
(00:25):
And I'm very happy to have you today with us asa guest.
Tell us a little bit about yourself.
Why you do what you do?
Well, basically, as you've said, I'm aninternational profiling and communications
specialist.
I'm also the creator of the rapid traitprofiling system, which is proven to be one of
(00:45):
the most accurate and fastest ways to readpeople on the planet.
So knowing how to recognize their personalitiesat a glance, then when you're talking to them,
be able to change the way that you like to bespoken to to match the way that they need to be
spoken to.
And then from the feedback from their bodylanguage and expressions, know whether you've
read them right.
Is there something emotionally going on, andare they telling you the truth?
(01:08):
But, basically, using that last part not as alie detector, but as a truth seeker.
And the reason I do what I do is that for along time, I was dreadful at reading people.
I'd been through two divorces, a lot of brokenrelationships, and even had business partners
who emptied the bank out.
About two decades ago, I decided I had toimprove.
(01:29):
And through some chance meetings, I've beenworking with some other systems in the past,
but then, somebody said to me one day, you everlooked at reading faces?
And I've always had the attitude to life.
The most important thing you'll ever learn isthe next thing you'll learn after you think you
know everything.
So I searched the world, found some reallygreat people who were training and teaching in
those areas, trained with them, and then lookedat four different sciences and brought them
(01:54):
together into one package, which is humanpattern recognition, and referred to it as the
science and art of reading people.
So delivering it in in a an art form, you mightsay.
And that's me pretty much in a nutshell.
Yeah.
Very interesting.
Tell us please more about this.
What is the art to reading people, that ouraudience, can use?
(02:19):
Maybe you can share some tips what people canuse.
Well, I'd love to.
Because as you said, the the title of the daywas talking about how to get the best out of
people.
And the best way to do that is to meet them attheir level.
Talk to them in the way that they need and wantto be spoken to.
See, we all are different.
(02:40):
I'm analytical to agree degree.
I need a lot of information to be able to makea decision.
Now when I'm talking to somebody, I may talk tothem in the same way because that's the way I
like to be spoken to.
So, naturally, I think that they wanna bespoken to that way.
But then I find that that somebody just wantsthe least amount of information.
They just want the overview.
Just give me the overall story.
(03:02):
And if I'm interested, then tell me more.
And if I talk the way I like to be spoken to,I've lost connection with them straight away.
And so being able to look at someone's face andeven from their photographs, your facial
features will give away how you like to thinkand process, how you like to take information
in, how you like to process it, and how youlike to be treated as well.
(03:24):
And from that, we can then change the way thatwe like to be spoken to and talk to that person
in that same way that they wanna be spoken toand make an immediate connection.
And
so Interesting.
Well, the face gives away everything.
If you think about it, everything we feelinside, we express outwardly.
Our brain controls our muscle movements.
(03:46):
So if we think and concentrate in a certain wayand we pull the same expression over and over
working the muscles in our face, we're gonnacreate ridges and crevices that, therefore
gives away that our facial features are a roadmap to how we like to think and process.
And so if I can see someone's photograph, I'vegot their personality straight away.
(04:07):
And then I'd know, okay, I know how to changethe way I to speak to to them.
Because if I may, I know that you put flareinto the things that you do.
There's a bit of what I call dramaticappreciation.
And I know that when you're stressed, you liketo voice that with people.
You like to be able to talk to people aboutthat.
Someone like me has what I call aestheticappreciation.
(04:29):
That's too much energy for me, but I'll justwithdraw.
And if I'm working on something that I reallyhave to get my head around, somebody asking me
what's going on, you know, why are you goingquiet?
That I can find quite frustrating.
So if I know that you need to be able to voicewhat you're, you're feeling and I care, then
(04:49):
I'm going to go, okay.
Has it got anything to do with me?
If you say no, it hasn't.
Is there anything I can help you with?
And you say no.
Then it's a case of, well, okay.
You just want me to listen.
Is that right?
So do you want me to fix this, or do you wantme to listen?
And if you tell me that you just want me to,listen, and I know it's got nothing to do with
me, and I'm if I'm a friend, I I care for you,etcetera, I'm just going to stop and listen to
(05:14):
you.
And, therefore, those misunderstandings that wehave with other people start to disappear very
quickly.
Talk to the person in the way that they needand want to be spoken to, and the face will
give you all that information every time.
Mhmm.
Yeah.
Very interesting.
I usually look at people and photo, and I Ithink in I I think about the energy.
(05:41):
I I ask my intuition to pick up energy, and Ican feel that this is person who is calm or
person who is very kind.
Or yeah.
I I just use this method, yes, to to pick upenergy and connect with the person at that
(06:01):
energy level.
That's it.
Yeah.
See, everybody picks up energy.
We all you know, if you think about a youngchild, young children have the skill when
they're first born.
They learn to recognize faces very quickly.
Who's mom?
Who's dad?
Who are people I should be around and whoshouldn't I be around?
At the same time, they pick up the energies.
(06:23):
They pick up whether you're happy, you're sad,or whatever, and they respond to that
immediately.
As as we go get older, though, we get caught upin, you know, sports and going to school and
all the other activities in life, And the endresult from that is we then stop practicing
reading.
We don't need to as much.
We know who our family are.
We know the people we shouldn't be around.
(06:43):
They're all the ones that we should have aroundus.
And so we don't need to practice that as much.
It's just like any muscle muscle.
Like, we don't work it.
It atrophies.
And so but as we get older, some people willreally focus on the energy aspect, and they'll
pick that up in people.
And other times, others won't pick it up atall.
(07:04):
With what I do, I just teach people to get backwhat they had originally when they were young
children.
Because as I say to people, well, how oftenhave you listened to somebody and everything
they said sounded fine, but you had thatfeeling that something wasn't right?
You know?
You picked up the nonverbals.
Some people call it intuition.
I call it, the fact that people have actuallypicked it up.
(07:26):
They've seen that what they're saying doesn'tmatch what their their body's giving away,
their movements, their expressions, etcetera.
If somebody's talking to you and you'resupposed to having a serious conversation,
they're looking away all the time.
You'll feel that you can't trust them becausewhy aren't they looking at me, etcetera.
You know, at the same time, we need tounderstand what our cultural difference is
(07:50):
because some cultures won't look you in theeyes.
So if we know that, but, you know, does thatperson the rest of their body language and
their movements, everything, aligning with whatwe're looking at?
If it is, then we can trust them.
If it mismatch, then we know we can't trustthem.
And so this is where it all comes down.
It's a combination of the facial features, theexpressions.
(08:12):
At the same time, we also have that, as yousaid, that innate, intuition.
And some people are stronger than others.
You bring it all together, and you find thatyou're able to read people far more
effectively.
Yes.
Yes.
I think that, we all can communicate betterwhen we show genius genuine interest to people.
(08:35):
That's it.
Yes.
Because if person has interest to somebody andwant really to connect, he opens all his
senses.
Yes?
And, like, ability to see, hear what the personhe says.
And as you said, some features also listen toenergy, and it is happening when the person is
(09:03):
fully present.
Yes.
That knows that he's speaking with somebody andthinking about something else and also having
something in mind that he wants to say anddon't even listen to person.
So I think that this interest to people andreally ability to be present and meet the
(09:24):
person.
And at that moment when you're communicatingwith person, give your all intention.
Give you all presence.
And this is how you will connect.
Yes.
This is how communication will be reallyeffective.
See, everyone needs to realize that listeningis an activity.
(09:45):
It's an active activity.
You gotta be active in the process.
A lot of people, when somebody's speaking,they're they're not listening to the
conversation.
There's a conversation going on in their ownhead of what they're going to ask next.
And so when they're talking, they're thinkingabout what they're talking about.
So it's almost like everybody's schizophrenic.
We've all got two two people in our head at anygiven time.
(10:07):
The whole thing is we need to listen to theother person, understand what they're saying,
and respond to that.
Not listen to just, make a response, but listento understand more than anything else.
So the more I can understand the other person,where they're coming from, what they really
mean, etcetera, what they really the messagethey're trying to get across, then I can
connect with them far more effectively.
(10:29):
And people pick it up.
They know if you're listening.
They know if you're actually, understandingthem.
And as I always say to people, we've got twoeyes, two ears, and one mouth.
A lot of people will say, oh, you got, two earsand one mouth, but you've also got two eyes.
And you use all of those in that proportion.
So you're using the eyes and your ears morethan you're actually using your mouth.
(10:51):
And when you're using your mouth, you shouldask every possible question you can.
I always say to people, once you've asked everyquestion you can think of, ask one more.
And people will go, well, how can I ask onemore question if they've asked every question I
can think of?
Well, the last one is, from what you've beentelling me, this is what I understand.
Have I got it right?
(11:11):
And if the person says, yes, you have, theyknow that you've been listening.
You've got that rapport.
You've got a connection with them.
Now if they say no and they correct you onthings, that's even better again because now
you're you're you're into a deeper conconversation.
And when it comes to selling, for instance, Iknow there's a big push to it's always push to
(11:34):
get yeses from people.
But a negotiation doesn't start until you get ano.
So by asking that question, from what Iunderstand, this is what you know, from what
you've said and what I've taken in, this is howI've understood it.
Is that right?
And the person says no.
You go, well, great.
Well, tell me more about that.
Now they really know you're listening.
(11:55):
And because they're now talking, now you've gota communication going, and that's when you can
negotiate if you're looking at trying to get amessage across and getting them to do something
that, earlier on, they didn't wanna do.
Yeah.
Like,
getting your kids to eat their broccoli, forinstance, is a challenge.
(12:16):
Getting, you know, finding the right partnerand, having that partner accept that you wanna
be with them for the rest of your life.
All of those are sales.
All of those are negotiations.
The same as in business when we're sellingproducts and services.
They're all negotiations.
And that always starts when you can get a realconversation going, not just presenting to the
(12:37):
other person, but they've having communicationbackwards and forwards.
And you're communicating and discussing things,and that's when you really get to a deeper
understanding.
You get to a deeper connection, and you don'thave to try and mirror and match their
movements or anything else, you'll find thatwhen you've got that conversation going at that
level, you're both doing it naturally.
They're mirroring and matching you, and you'remirroring and matching them.
(13:00):
And when you realize that's happening and youweren't even thinking about doing that, that's
when you know you've really got that deepconnection.
Yeah.
So I like how you said that meet people at thelevel.
And in order to understand their level, youhave to know how they think, how they process
information, and what they want from what theyexpect from this meeting.
(13:24):
That's it.
And only then you can present that the way thatthey can digest.
Interesting thing that people processinformation and see receive information so
differently.
The same information is received differently byother people.
And when we say something, we mean something.
(13:47):
But it doesn't mean that the person who listensto us and hears us that exactly get the meaning
which we want to say.
Is how it is important to make sure that youreally understood what the person wanted to say
you.
(14:07):
Because everyone is so different, and everyone,thinks in pictures.
And all these pictures how he thinks, it isrelated to his personality, to his background,
and everything else.
So it is not exact match that we say somethingand that person exactly will hear what we say
(14:28):
because there are so many different componentsinvolved.
And by tuning into his energy, to hisfrequency, to his channel, by other words, will
help us to get, like, that symphonic orchestrathat we can start playing in unison, yeah, with
(14:49):
this person.
And for this
That's it.
Listen and ask questions to make sure that wereally get what it who is this person?
How what how he likes to speak?
Is he speaking fast or he speak slow?
And so we have to tune ourselves to his eventemper, yes, to conversation so he feels that
(15:12):
we matches his energy, and he feelscomfortable.
That's it.
See, I talk fast when I'm talking to a lot ofpeople.
So at times, I remind myself to slow down.
But if I'm lecturing with a large class, I justtell everybody if I'm talking really fast, then
listen faster.
But when it comes to really connecting withsomebody, you can't do that.
(15:33):
You've got to understand them and talk to themat their level.
It's the same as if you were talking to a youngchild.
We have you know, we we don't use the languagewe would use with an adult.
We'd change the word structure.
We'd use more simple words that they wouldunderstand.
Always meet the other person at their levelwhere they are.
But also then whatever they're saying, alwaysconfirm what they've said because, as you said,
(15:57):
somebody may say something and we assumethey've said meant something else, and we get
it totally wrong.
Next thing you know, we're saying, well, that'swhat you told me.
And the other person's saying, well, that's notwhat I said.
And when we stopped momentarily, we went, hangon.
Okay.
You said something, but what I took it wasthis.
Where did I get it wrong?
(16:19):
If the person then goes, well, this is what Ireally meant to try and get across, then you
can you're in a conversation.
You get to that better point.
Never assume that you've heard the other personaccurately without asking them or confirming
from what you've been telling me, this is whatI've understood.
Is it right?
(16:39):
And because if you yeah.
Then that's a simple question.
It's one that everybody can ask in everyconversation with other people, and they'll
always get a positive response back.
I never get the other person saying, oh, aren'tyou listening?
If they do, then it's a case of, well, I justwant to make sure I got it right because it's
important to me that I I've listened to youright.
I've got the information right.
That's gotta be right right with you or truewith you as well.
(17:02):
The person's gotta say yes, and they go, okay.
Well, as I said, what you told me, this is whatI understood.
As I said, have I got it right?
And straight away, you're back into thatconversation.
So it's just because a lot of people, we'retrying to get our message across, and we get
upset when people don't get it immediately.
But quite often, it's coming out the way wewant to we need to express it.
(17:25):
It's not getting to them in the way that theyneed to hear it.
And so as you said, if I slow down, understandthat other person's personality more
effectively, talk to them in a way that theyneed to be spoken to from what their face is
telling me, then the facial features will giveme that information.
And then as I said, while I'm talking, I've gotthat body language, the expressions on their
(17:47):
face, all those things giving me feedback ifI'm on track.
And the moment I see something there that's notcongruent, the things that have slightly gone
off where I might be talking about somethinghappy and there's a a lack of a smile there,
then I know that they're not taking it the wayI'm trying to relay it to them, how I'm trying
to speak it.
So then I can actually change the way I'mtalking or confirm and just ask them, well,
(18:11):
this is what I was trying to get a is that theway you've understood it?
I can actually ask them if they've understoodit.
And so being active in the communication.
So when I'm talking, I'm always looking at theother person.
I'm looking for the feedback.
Have I connected with them?
Do they understand what I'm talking about?
Is there a better way that I could beexplaining this?
(18:31):
Because the focus then is off me.
It's on them.
Whereas everybody else is in that role wherethey want to get a message across, so they're
only listening to respond to that person.
They're not actually listening to understandwhat the person's saying.
And so they've got the the going on in theirown head when they're listening, and then the
(18:52):
conversation come out of their mouth when theyfinally get the opportunity to speak.
And you get two people doing that, talking toeach other, both of them walk away with no idea
what the other one was talking about and quiteoften walk away with a misconception or
believing the other person said something thatthey didn't even say at all.
Always meet the other person at their level.
(19:14):
Yes.
And this is, what came to my mind when you weretelling this, what, I learned from Bob Proctor.
He also learned it from his mentor.
And he said that there is the golden rule.
Always meet the person and speak to him as heis the most important person in the world.
(19:38):
That's it.
So there's the golden rule, as we call it,which is treat others as we would have them
treat us.
Mhmm.
That's right when it comes to respect.
But the platinum rule is when it comes tocommunication, speak to the other person in the
way that they would have us speak to them,which is what you virtually just said then
because that makes the other person feel thatthey're the most important person in the room.
(20:02):
But you're really interested in what they'resaying.
And at that point, you'll get to a fasterconnection.
You'll get that rapport much faster.
If they're work colleagues or anything likethat, you'll have loyalty from them as well.
And this is extremely important for businessowners and executives to be able to talk to all
their frontline people, their customers, theirsuppliers in that particular way.
(20:26):
Because if they do, they'll have loyal clientcustomers.
They will keep coming back.
They'll have, suppliers who always put themfirst over their competitors, and they'll have,
their work colleague work, people working inthe business diligently so they can go and work
on their business.
Because a big catch for a cry we a cry we havewith all businesses is I need to work on my
(20:48):
business to grow it.
Well, you can't do that if you've got nobody inthe business working in it.
And a lot of managers get it wrong becausethey're micromanaging their people, and so
nobody's doing what they could they're whatthey could possibly do at the highest level
because they're only doing what they have to doto get by without getting into trouble.
(21:09):
But if you meet your staff and talk to them inthe right way, they'll become more productive.
They'll become more loyal.
They feel that they belong.
They contribute.
They value that they have a place, and they'llbe far more effective.
And if you're doing that, you can go onholidays, and the company will not only
survive, it will grow in your absence.
That's when you know you can definitely work onyour business.
(21:32):
These are the important things to be able toconnect with people to be able to do that.
Yes.
And another one rule, which I like so much,leave people with impression of increase.
Like, keep keep leave them in the place thatthey feel better than they did before they met
(21:53):
you.
That's it.
I mean, it's the old golden rule of always leadthe planet in a better place than you found it.
You know?
The environment, people around you, everybody.
Make everybody feel that they were special,that they belong, they contribute, they valued,
etcetera.
And you'll always have that loyalty.
You'll always find that every conversation youhave is a pleasant one.
(22:16):
Yes.
I've had conversations with people when I firstmet them who have been really angry at, the
organization or the, you know, peep otherpeople who have what other people have done.
And in no time at all, I've got a strong allyin that person.
Certainly, of course, I meet them at theirlevel.
I understand.
I connect with them.
They feel that they've got somebody who'sactually listening to them, who's really
(22:40):
concerned of an interest in helping themthrough their problem.
So when it comes to I people ask me, am I asalesman?
A lot of people buy from me, but I don't sellanything other than sell myself.
In that, I build a connection with them.
And with that, the end result is that, you'llalways have people coming back to you.
(23:01):
This is how you have loyal clients.
This is how you have staff who really want tobe there on Monday.
And sometimes they're looking at it on a Fridaygoing, oh, I've got two days off, but I'll be
back at work on Monday with a smile on theirface.
When you got that sort of situation, you've gota business that's going to flourish.
And if you're a business owner, you're gonnamake a lot of money.
(23:23):
Yeah.
Attitude is very important.
Attitude for ourselves to people, to life, tobusiness.
Attitude is the key word as old said, that itis the secret, the the main word, which, is,
like, foundation for success, attitude.
Right?
(23:43):
And the way how we communicate also comes fromattitude, from respect, from love, from
compassion.
So we are not only hearing ourselves, but weare able to listen, and we are able to, hear
people seeing the situation from theirperspective.
And then we can make the whole picture ofsituation when we're not only looking from our,
(24:10):
like, pin pie, yes, which we got.
But when we collect opinion of people, theirviews, and then when we can lead by example and
lead by gating all the picture and putting allpeople into consideration that everybody
That's it.
Feel short, appreciated, supported, feel freeto share their opinion.
(24:37):
Yes.
This is environment which will make people liketo be in and, grow together, develop together,
have common goal.
That's it.
See, when I many, many years ago, severaldecades ago now, I used to work with our
national telephone carrier.
And when I took redundancy and left theorganization, half my staff wanted to resign
(25:01):
and come with me because I knew I was startinga business outside of, you know, my finally
starting my first business.
And, we had the highest performance inAustralia in the area in which we worked.
We had clients who loved us, and we're alwaysunder budget.
And all our folks, we we installed all thecomputer links out of Newcastle across the
country.
(25:21):
We installed them and we main maintained it.
So if there's a fault, we always got that wellunderneath the the the you know, the there was
an allocated time to get faults fixed.
We always fixed them faster.
We always had clients that loved us.
My staff worked their tails off.
They worked really hard, but yet half of themwanted to resign and come with me when I left.
Because I realized the connection I had withpeople, if I respected them and showed them how
(25:46):
I valued them and gave them their their time,that connection, it worked really well.
I did the same in the surf club as a surflifesaver when I left the club there.
It's always been that case.
Then I've, what was about almost seven yearsago now, I created the campfire project, which
is a safe place for men and women from aroundthe world, adults, and that from all over the
(26:09):
world to be able to come together and share thestories I've never been able to share with
anybody before.
And for them to feel comfortable and talk aboutwell, they haven't told their partners.
They haven't told their their families.
They haven't told their counselors, evenpsychologists or psychiatrists.
And within five minutes, they're opening up andtelling me their life stories.
And the only reason that can happen is that I'mfocused on them.
(26:31):
They pick that up so that instant connection.
This is why the, the profiling side of thingsmade life for me so much easier.
Because as I said before all of that, twodivorces, a lot of broken relationships because
I didn't have these skills.
I had a desire to build relationships butdidn't know how to do it.
But, as I said, over two decades ago now, Itook on the, the face profiling side of things.
(26:56):
I'd had body language and my NLP masters and awhole bunch of other, what you call it,
qualifications before that, but it was the faceprofiling that brought it all together for me.
And so, you know, to have somebody open up andtell you their life story and feel comfortable
doing it when they've never been able to shareit with somebody before, you know, I'm
(27:17):
definitely a product of what I teach.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Amazing.
Amazing.
And I'm sure that people who listening to us,they would like to know more about learning
from faces.
Yes.
Learning and connecting with people.
And, we will put these links for your programsin the description so people can That
(27:43):
would be good.
There is a link there to a free course if theywanna get rid of it.
Because the old saying is that the proof of thepudding is in the eating.
It's like, I can tell you all the things thatI've done and how good this stuff is, but until
you try it yourself, it's like a chef said, youcan be there and saying I'm a great chef and
everything, but it's not until you taste hishis or her food that you know whether they're
(28:08):
any good.
That's why I always say to people, there's afree course on my, website.
You can go and click on that.
That'll give you some traits you can playaround with.
You can go and test them for yourself and seehow well and how quickly you can start to build
relationships with people.
And then from there, they wanna talk further,I'm always happy to have another chat.
(28:28):
Yeah.
Thank you so much, Alan.
It was so what we just discussed and what youshared.
I appreciate, and I'm sure that our audience,everyone who listen will like to learn from you
starting from that course and then, of course,connect with you to know more how to work with
you.
What is the one advice, if it would be one,what you would, like to share before we wrap up
(28:54):
this episode?
Well, one of the things is that, you know, wesometimes just take everything on board and
accept it, or we just reject everything becauseit doesn't sound right.
As I said, the most important thing I'll everlearn is the next thing I learn after I think I
know everything.
So I always say to people, have an open mind.
Listen to everybody.
Take it all in.
But then work out what works for you, whatdoesn't work for you, and add your own flavor
(29:19):
to it as well.
And I think that was what Bruce Lee had said inhis martial arts.
At the same time, there's an Arabic saying thatsays, trust everybody, but lock up your camels
at night.
As I say, listen to everybody, take all theinformation in, and then assess it for yourself
and go, okay.
Does this work for me?
How can it work for me?
Trial it out and everything else, and thendiscount what doesn't and maintain and keep
(29:44):
what does.
But if you don't have an open mind, you'llnever get the opportunity to do that.
Yeah.
Such amazing advice.
Thank you so much, Alan.
And
My pleasure.
Look forward to see you again in our furtherepisodes.
Fantastic.
Thank you very much.
You're most welcome.
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