February 19, 2025 • 26 mins
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Ever wondered how culture shapes our understanding of trauma? Join me, Fatima Bey, on the MindShift Power Podcast as Erica Bess, a licensed therapist specializing in trauma, and I explore this intriguing question. We unravel the complex relationship between cultural backgrounds and trauma, particularly in the lives of teenagers. Discover how the unique cultural landscapes within countries like the United States, Switzerland, and India influence perceptions of trauma. Through personal stories and historical contexts, we discuss the profound impact cultural heritage and generational trauma have on our worldview, offering a fresh perspective on the challenges teens face today.
We journey through time, touching on intergenerational trauma, from my African-American grandmother's experiences during the Jim Crow era to the lingering scars of the Bosnian War and Mao Zedong's China. Erica and I shine a light on how cultural contexts can amplify trauma, sometimes creating barriers to seeking help. By delving into microaggressions and the pervasive issue of misogyny, particularly in misogynistic societies, we aim to challenge societal norms and encourage a more compassionate understanding of these complex issues.
Our conversation takes a deeper dive into unpacking trauma responses and cultural mindsets, offering listeners a new lens to view human behavior. Erica brings her expertise to the table, helping us explore how what may seem irrational could be a trauma response within a particular cultural context. This episode is an invitation to rethink our judgments and embrace empathy, all while fostering discussions that could potentially transform young lives around the globe. Be sure to subscribe to stay engaged with these life-changing conversations.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Fatima Bey (00:01):
Welcome to MindShift Power Podcast, the only
international podcast focused onteens, connecting young voices
and perspectives from around theworld.
Get ready to explore the issuesthat matter to today's youth
and shape tomorrow's world.
I'm your host, fatima Bey theMindShifter, and welcome
(00:24):
everyone.
Today we have with us EricaBess, the Trauma Master.
She is a licensed therapist.
She has over 12 years ofexperience as a social worker
and therapist.
She also owns Empower Therapyand she specializes in trauma,
and you have heard her beforeand you will hear her again.
How are you doing today, erica?
Erica Bess (00:45):
I'm doing well.
How are you, Fatima?
Fatima Bey (00:47):
I'm good.
I'm really looking forward tothis conversation.
I think it's extremely relevantand something that people just
don't talk about.
Erica Bess (00:53):
Absolutely your specialty.
Fatima Bey (00:56):
It's both of our specialties put together in one
place, really.
Erica Bess (00:59):
Definitely.
Fatima Bey (01:00):
Let's start off by defining what culture is okay.
Okay, let's start off bydefining what culture is Okay.
Culture is it's encompassingbeliefs and values, it's
traditions, behaviors, it's alltogether and it shapes our
worldview.
That's what a culture is.
Now, as an American, I'm in themidst of an American culture.
(01:21):
I understand many othercultures, but we're talking
about culture today and oh, howit's so relevant to teens.
But this topic is especiallyimportant for teens because of
where we are in the world rightnow and where we're headed.
And I just want to point outthe fact that culture, just
because someone's from a country, doesn't mean that they come
(01:44):
from the same culture.
For example, erica is fromBrooklyn.
She's from New York City.
I am from Minneapolis, in theMidwest Minnesota.
We're both from the UnitedStates of America, but our
cultures could not be moredifferent.
Our cultures could not be moredifferent.
Our cultures could not be moredifferent and we're in the same
(02:07):
country.
Another example is New YorkCity I mean, yeah, new York
State, just anywhere in New York, and then, versus Texas, we're
in the same country, butculturally we couldn't be more
different.
Let me tell you guys somethingabout Switzerland.
Do you know Switzerland?
They have officially fourlanguages as their national
languages.
I believe Italian is one, butthe two that I remember the most
(02:30):
is French and German.
They're on opposite ends ofSwitzerland, they're in
different parts of Switzerland.
Look at a map and that makessense.
Look at the countries at theirborder, but do you think that
their cultures are the same inthose two areas?
They're not At all.
They're not.
They're too different.
And look at India.
(02:50):
We think of India.
Most people outside of Indiawell, let me rephrase that Most
Americans, who are very ignorantabout most of Asia, think of
India as one culture and onepeople.
And that is so silly to me,because I understand India has
hundreds of languages.
Some are big and some are small.
(03:12):
Not everybody speaks Hindi.
There are people that speakEnglish.
There are people that speak noEnglish at all.
They have so many differentcultures and languages within
their borders.
Just because a country has atitle and a name doesn't mean
the people within it are all thesame, and that is something
that people often think about.
That people often assumeincorrectly, right, right?
(03:35):
So now, now that I explainedall of that, that is very
relevant to the rest of thisconversation.
I just wanted to put thatunderstanding out there.
So, erica of this conversation,I just wanted to put that
understanding out there.
So, erica, right now talk aboutthe impact of cultural
background on trauma.
Can you tell us a little bitabout that?
Erica Bess (03:52):
Absolutely so a lot of times.
Cultural backgrounds obviouslythat comes from generations
before us and it shapes how wethink, it shapes the things that
we do and a lot of times itforms our morals and it
sometimes makes us look at theworld through a different lens
because of the people that camebefore us.
(04:14):
It shapes how we look at thingsas well.
So a lot of times when you'recoming from a traumatized
background, you have a tendencyto look at things from a
traumatized standpoint, becausenot that you to look at things
from a traumatized standpoint,because not that you've
necessarily gone through thattrauma, but people that have
reared you and have reared thepeople that have reared you have
gone through trauma.
And then you pick up thatmindset and kind of look at
(04:37):
things from a hypervigilantstandpoint or just very just on
edge most of the time and youbecome traumatized through that,
you know.
And then you're going toexperience your own trauma as
well, but this is yourgenerational trauma that's
having an effect on you.
Fatima Bey (04:52):
I'm going to give an example of my own, my own
personal family, my grandmother.
Now I'm African-American, I'mBlack.
My grandmother grew up she wasborn in the I think the 30s I
forget how long ago but mygrandmother grew up Black, was
born in the I think the 30s Iforget how long ago, but my
grandmother grew up black inAmerica, so naturally she grew
up during Jim Crow.
(05:12):
She grew up.
I remember constantly hearingfrom my grandmother stuff about
white people, why she wastraumatized by what she had gone
through, what that wholegeneration well generations went
through as black people inamerica right and she constantly
(05:35):
had it in her head, theseparation of black and white.
Now, because I grew up inminneapolis and I am part white
because my mother's half white,I I grew up in Minneapolis I
didn't grow up with that mindsetat all because in Minneapolis,
where I grew up, it was theopposite, like the idea of it
was just the opposite.
(05:55):
So we didn't yeah, I didn'tgrow up with that sort of a,
that sort of trauma.
Racism is built into Americanculture.
It still exists and it still is.
We've been working on it but wehaven't arrived yet.
So it still is.
So that impacted mygrandmother's worldview and she
(06:16):
was a sweetheart, she washilarious Don't piss her off
which is I inherited her genes.
Erica Bess (06:24):
Right, I was just about to say that.
You took it right out of mymouth like oh, you take after
your grandma, okay?
Fatima Bey (06:30):
I'm nice and sweet until you push just the right
button.
Then you better move out oftown and hide your family and
get plastic surgery and changeyour name.
That's all I ask.
So anyway, no, but really.
But my grandmother used toalways make these statements and
me and my sister would justkind of dismiss them because we
understood where she was comingfrom?
Erica Bess (06:48):
She's coming from a traumatized point of view.
Fatima Bey (06:50):
But let's talk about being Black in America.
We are still traumatized bythat.
Erica Bess (06:56):
Right, we have our own each level of traumatization
of that experience.
Fatima Bey (07:01):
It becomes less and less with each generation if we
work at it.
Yes, but trauma and I'm usingthe example of Black America
because that's what we both areand we understand but this is
true for people in China, peoplewho went through older
generations that were under MaoZedong.
(07:21):
They think differently thanthis younger generation.
They were traumatized by someof that stuff, you know, the the
uh, uh, just oh, so much stuff.
They were traumatized by thatand they pass that down to other
people.
I know a friend who her she's,she's a white American.
Her grandmother, hergrandparents, they went through
(07:44):
the great depression.
Her grandmother, hergrandparents, they went through
the great depression, so theyhad a mindset of salvage
everything, save everything,wrap everything in plastic don't
.
They didn't have this wastefulright, didn't have this wasteful
mindset that we now have.
I just know that.
I just remember us having thisconversation about it.
Uh, the generationaldifferences, and actually that's
what we were talking about.
But for her they weretraumatized and that trauma got
(08:08):
passed on to her parents.
They were taught to be, I wouldsay, overly cautious.
It's good to be wise, it's goodto be frugal, but they were
overly cautious because of thetrauma of the Great Depression.
Right, that makes sense to me.
So I'm just giving examplesthat we can all relate to from
(08:34):
where I am as an American.
But if you're in a differentcountry, you have been
traumatized by war.
I have met people in thiscountry from all over the world.
I absolutely love it.
One of the countries that Iwill never, ever forget is the
Bosnian War.
I forget when it happened.
I think it was the late 90s.
It was sometime in the 90s, soforgive me, I don't remember the
(08:55):
year, but I worked with peoplewho went through that war.
It permanently traumatized them.
They never were the same afterthat, traumatized them.
They never were the same afterthat, and they shared personal
stories with me.
Some of them shared storieswith me that had never come out
of their mouth to anyone before,and I felt very honored and
humbled by that.
But I was also wowed.
(09:16):
I don't even know what word togive it but it affected them.
And then you have to.
You went through this war andnow you come over to America, to
this totally different culturewhere people other you because
you don't speak English yet, andjust how do you react to that?
So my point in saying all thatis cultural background affects
(09:36):
your trauma as well, becauseit's not just you know.
As Erica said before, traumaaffects your worldview period,
but then couple that with yourcultural background, right, that
makes it worse.
Erica Bess (09:51):
So, talking, about Definitely intensifies.
Fatima Bey (09:54):
Yes, it can intensify.
It can actually make it worse,because it can make you not seek
the help that you need.
But we're going to talk aboutthat in a second.
Let's talk aboutmicroaggressions, because I
think microaggressions peopledon't necessarily understand.
We use the word constantly butnot enough examples are given
outside of being Black inAmerica.
Okay so, because that's theonly time I ever hear it spoken
(10:18):
of Right Microaggressions howwould you define
microaggressions, erica?
Erica Bess (10:24):
A statement, an action or an incident regarded
as an incident of indirect,subtle or unintentional
discrimination against membersof a marginalized group, such as
racial or ethnic minorities.
Fatima Bey (10:39):
There we go.
So I have some examples.
I pulled up some examples forthis episode and in this
particular example these arestatements made to women in
misogynistic societies.
I want to say something aboutthat for a second.
When people think ofmisogynistic societies most at
(11:04):
least Americans I don't knowabout outside of America, but in
America people often associatethat with Muslim communities.
Erica Bess (11:13):
Yes.
Fatima Bey (11:14):
But that is so narrow it is, and it is, yeah,
it's definitely true in someIslamic countries.
There's so much more than that,but it's so much.
It's definitely true in some,in some islamic countries
absolutely so much more thanthat, but it's so much, it's not
just them yeah I would say thisis an issue in much of africa,
much of asia, almost all ofeastern europe I think it's
(11:37):
probably in all parts of theworld it's it, yeah, more than
others, but those are the topplaces I can think of.
I'm sure there's other placesthat I'm not naming because I
just don't know them, but thoseare the ones that come to the
top of my head.
So don't just think of oh,you're talking about people in
the Middle East.
No, there I can name certaincountries, like Ecuador, for
example.
(11:57):
They're known for that.
There are many countries in theand that's over.
On this side of the world.
There are many countries in theworld for which, for whom this
is an issue where the misogynyis built into their culture.
It's baked in as much as racismis baked into America, and it
does affect how they deal withtheir trauma.
So I'm going to read thesestatements You're so pretty, you
(12:19):
don't need to be smart.
Fatima theoretically reachesout and smacks that person
upside the head.
Now, people actually say stupidstatements like that to women.
They really do.
Erica Bess (12:32):
And expect them to feel confident.
Fatima Bey (12:34):
Exactly.
Can you handle this task?
It's quite challenging for awoman, I'm sorry.
It's hard not to laugh at thesestupid statements.
Oh, that's a nice idea, butlet's hear what the men think.
That's a real statement thatwomen around the world really do
hear.
Another one is you should dressmore modestly to avoid
(12:56):
attracting unwanted attention.
Erica Bess (12:58):
Oh, my goodness.
Fatima Bey (12:59):
This is what people say in rape culture.
I'm just saying that's a realstatement that gets said to
people in cultures where rape isblamed on the woman.
Erica Bess (13:08):
I had that happen to me just at work when I was
about 14, 15 years old.
I was dressed in businessattire because my school wanted
us to learn how to prepare forinterviews and going forward
with being in the corporateworld.
Fatima Bey (13:23):
So on.
Erica Bess (13:23):
Mondays we had to wear, you know, business attire
and this weirdo came into thelibrary that I was working at
and he said some inappropriatethings to me and I told the
librarian.
They ended up calling thepolice.
The police said to me at 14, 15years old well, maybe you
shouldn't dress so adult.
Looking that way, men won't sayanything to you.
(13:45):
And I was like, sir, I go to aschool that is preparing me for
a career and to be professional.
What I have on is notinappropriate.
And how dare you say that to me?
Fatima Bey (13:57):
That was just promoting a victim culture Like
yeah, it's crazy, yeah, and thishappens around the world, in
different cultures more so thanothers, but it's, it's
disgusting, it really is.
But my point in bringing upthose microaggressions is that
sometimes we don't recognize ourcultural biases.
(14:22):
Let me rephrase that, becauseit's not just about cultural
bias Sometimes we don'trecognize the bad things in our
culture the misogyny, the racism, the ageism, whatever it is in
your particular culture, becauseevery culture has their own
thing, right.
But sometimes we don'trecognize the things that are in
(14:46):
our culture that actually makeour trauma 10 times worse, right
?
Imagine being raped and thenbeing told a stupid ass
statement like that.
Erica Bess (14:55):
Yeah.
Fatima Bey (14:57):
Then you're going to blame yourself for it even more
than you probably already areRight then you're going to blame
yourself for it even more thanyou probably already are Right.
So sometimes how we say things,people, it matters.
Nigerians, it matters,jamaicans, it matters, chinese
it matters.
I'm just picking up randomcultures, but y'all get the
(15:18):
point.
It really matters how weaddress things that people go
through.
It matters because we makepeople worse.
Erica, explain to them howthese statements actually make
trauma worse.
Erica Bess (15:36):
It can just intensify what you're already
experiencing from that traumaand just chip away at your
self-esteem.
And when your self-esteem isbeing chipped away at, it makes
your foundation unsteady.
And then you doubt everythingthat you have going for yourself
and then you just maybe evenself-sabotage because you just
(15:59):
don't think that you're worthanything good or you can't
accomplish anything great.
And then you cut yourself outof opportunities because you
just don't see yourself in thatlight, because you've allowed
that traumatic mindset toovercome you Right, you can't
fly.
Fatima Bey (16:15):
And also I want to talk about being judgmental when
it comes to other cultures.
So this podcast is aninternational podcast for teens
and anything that affects theirfuture.
This subject affects theirfuture because we need teenagers
.
Listen up, we need you to bebetter than us, my generation
(16:52):
and the generation before we'veleft you a mess for real.
I feel like we.
I feel like we've left you amess and I'm speaking in general
terms actually easier for youto be compassionate, it's easier
for you to gain a betterunderstanding of bigger picture
things and make better decisionsin your own life, absolutely
Because understanding otherpeople's cultures is a way to
(17:15):
break the cycle.
Yes, thank you, erica, forsaying that.
Can you explain how?
Erica Bess (17:20):
that's true.
Yes, Thank you, Erica, forsaying that.
Hey, well, in my friend'sfamily they don't do this and I
(17:42):
thought that was normal, youknow.
And then you might realize like, oh, maybe that it isn't so
normal.
It makes you question thingsthat you've gone through and it
expands your mind to be able tounderstand people and also
accept them and learn to embracethem, no matter their
differences as well, and that'show we create unity as well.
Fatima Bey (18:07):
Yes, and especially for young women, if you come
from a culture that'smisogynistic in any kind of way,
because there are varyingdegrees of it.
So every misogynistic countryculture is not the same, so
please also understand that.
But if you come from a culturewhere women are secondary in any
kind of way, you are alreadythinking in ways that are
self-sabotaging and you don'teven realize it because it's
(18:28):
ingrained in you.
It's important to be aroundpeople that are different than
you.
Now again, if you're listening,I have a challenge for you.
I want you to get to knowsomeone who's totally different.
If you are in Japan and there'ssome Africans or Black
(18:51):
Americans or somebody near youthat you don't know, get to know
them.
You've never met any before.
Get to know them.
If you are white American, youcome from a racist family,
redneck, whatever word you wantto call it get to know a black
person who grew up in the hood.
Erica Bess (19:10):
yeah, right and keep an open mind, because you don't
want those micro aggressions tocome out like really have an
open mind and get to know theperson for who they are you're
going to find out that you're alot more like them than you
think.
Fatima Bey (19:22):
exactly that's something I've learned through
observation, having worked with,actually, both of those
communities from a supervisorystandpoint Right.
Erica Bess (19:30):
You might find your best friend.
Fatima Bey (19:32):
Yeah, for real, for real.
But it doesn't matter what thedifference is.
The difference doesn't have tobe race.
The difference could becultural.
You might be the same race, butcultural differences.
You grew up in the Northeast.
You only know the Northeasttype of mindset.
Someone's from the deep South.
Get to know them becausethey're from a different culture
(19:54):
too.
It's not only race.
Just get to know somebodydifferent than you.
It will expand and open up yourmind and let her talk to those
who are around, people who aretraumatized.
Let me rephrase that youth whoare traumatized.
Erica Bess (20:22):
And tell them how they can deal with them or help.
Well, in order to deal with theyouth that are traumatized,
they're going to have to be ableto get a support system and
most times nine times out of 10,there is no support system for
them.
So I would like to offer myservices to them and, even if
(20:42):
it's for a consultation, just totalk to somebody and reach out
and connect with ericabestcom,they can reach me there.
They need to be able to havepeople that they can trust and
look up to and feel safe talkingabout what they've experienced.
And, like you said, with themisogynistic tendencies within a
(21:04):
lot of the cultures and I'lluse rape as an example how many
women do you think are, like,just so afraid to come forward
or even say that somebody didsomething to them, because of
fear of being shamed for evenbeing assaulted, you know.
So there's a lot of girls outthere that are sitting and
holding their trauma deep downand they're trying to keep it
(21:27):
stuffed down, but it's affecting, I'm sure, deep down and
they're trying to keep it stuffdown, but it's affecting, I'm
sure, every aspect of their life.
And what needs to happen is aculture shift so that the women
feel comfortable speaking up andthat the men actually get some
control in themselves as well.
It's not just the women.
Fatima Bey (21:46):
Yeah, no, exactly.
I want to add something for theyoung women specifically.
I'm talking to young womenright now, for the young women
that are out there that youdon't have anybody you can talk
to.
You don't have that supportsystem.
You don't have you.
You are afraid to talk aboutwhat you know.
Like Erica just said, you'reafraid to talk about what's
(22:09):
happened to you and you havenobody to talk to.
If you can get a call toAmerica and talk to Erica, you
should, because one thing I cantell you about both of us we are
not interested in trying toAmericanize you.
You could be Muslim, weunderstand that.
You could be from Bulgaria, wedon't care.
Erica Bess (22:31):
Right.
Fatima Bey (22:32):
There are people who actually do care and want you
to know that you know everythingisn't your fault and you
shouldn't shut up for whathappened to you.
You should deal with it.
You don't have to deal with itway out publicly and openly and
act all crazy.
We're not saying that you do.
Just because we're Americandoesn't mean that we think that
(22:57):
we want you to know that thereare other women out here who
care and we want you to be wholeand you can be.
You might have to do itdifferently in your culture and
country than we do here inAmerica, right, but there is
hope.
(23:19):
I've met women from differentparts of the world who actually
do care, so reach out, even ifit's just to me.
You can't call Erica becauseyou don't have.
You can't reach out to Americanphone numbers.
I do have a WhatsApp on mywebsite and most people in the
world can get on WhatsApp.
You can reach out to me thatway and I can forward you to
(23:42):
somebody somewhere.
But we want you to know foryoung women.
Please reach out and just knowthat there are people who care
and there are people that wantto support you.
I don't care what language youspeak and I don't care what
country you're in.
I don't care what culture youcome from.
That's all just stuff to me.
You're a woman.
Erica Bess (24:03):
You're a woman.
You need support.
You're a young woman.
You're a girl.
Fatima Bey (24:09):
That's what we care about and we need to support
each other and for everybodyelse out there listening, please
make it a point to try tounderstand our youth, instead of
telling them just what to doand yelling at them Because you
are making their trauma worse.
It's almost like you'rereabusing them.
Absolutely, I want you to thinkabout that, all right, well,
(24:34):
erica, thank you so much forcoming on, um.
You've already told people howthey can find you, um, and your,
your.
I will put your uh link intothe show notes or the podcast
description, and this has been areally good conversation and we
(24:54):
will talk about this again,because there's a whole lot that
we didn't talk about, because16, nobody's going to list to a
16 hour podcast.
Absolutely, thank you forhaving me.
We only touched on the surfacetoday, but we really hope that
this touches someone and changesa life.
Thank you, and now for a mindshifting moment, I want to put
(25:23):
plant a thought seed in yourhead today.
Sometimes we look at people andwe're like why is she acting
crazy, why is he doing that?
And we don't really think aboutwhat caused them to arrive at
the behavior that we're judging.
Sometimes what we're looking atis a trauma response within a
(25:48):
cultural mindset.
I want you to really sit downand think about what that means
and what that looks like,because you have seen it.
But now I want you to start torecognize that.
Thank you for listening.
Be sure to follow or subscribeto MindShift Power podcast on
(26:11):
any of our worldwide platformsso you, too, can be a part of
the conversation that's changingyoung lives everywhere.
And always remember there'spower in shifting your thinking.
Welcome to MindShift Power Podcast, the only
international podcast focused onteens, connecting young voices
and perspectives from around theworld.
Get ready to explore the issuesthat matter to today's youth
and shape tomorrow's world.
I'm your host, fatima Bey theMindShifter, and welcome
(00:24):
everyone.
Today we have with us EricaBess, the Trauma Master.
She is a licensed therapist.
She has over 12 years ofexperience as a social worker
and therapist.
She also owns Empower Therapyand she specializes in trauma,
and you have heard her beforeand you will hear her again.
How are you doing today, erica?
Erica Bess (00:45):
I'm doing well.
How are you, Fatima?
Fatima Bey (00:47):
I'm good.
I'm really looking forward tothis conversation.
I think it's extremely relevantand something that people just
don't talk about.
Erica Bess (00:53):
Absolutely your specialty.
Fatima Bey (00:56):
It's both of our specialties put together in one
place, really.
Erica Bess (00:59):
Definitely.
Fatima Bey (01:00):
Let's start off by defining what culture is okay.
Okay, let's start off bydefining what culture is Okay.
Culture is it's encompassingbeliefs and values, it's
traditions, behaviors, it's alltogether and it shapes our
worldview.
That's what a culture is.
Now, as an American, I'm in themidst of an American culture.
(01:21):
I understand many othercultures, but we're talking
about culture today and oh, howit's so relevant to teens.
But this topic is especiallyimportant for teens because of
where we are in the world rightnow and where we're headed.
And I just want to point outthe fact that culture, just
because someone's from a country, doesn't mean that they come
(01:44):
from the same culture.
For example, erica is fromBrooklyn.
She's from New York City.
I am from Minneapolis, in theMidwest Minnesota.
We're both from the UnitedStates of America, but our
cultures could not be moredifferent.
Our cultures could not be moredifferent.
Our cultures could not be moredifferent and we're in the same
(02:07):
country.
Another example is New YorkCity I mean, yeah, new York
State, just anywhere in New York, and then, versus Texas, we're
in the same country, butculturally we couldn't be more
different.
Let me tell you guys somethingabout Switzerland.
Do you know Switzerland?
They have officially fourlanguages as their national
languages.
I believe Italian is one, butthe two that I remember the most
(02:30):
is French and German.
They're on opposite ends ofSwitzerland, they're in
different parts of Switzerland.
Look at a map and that makessense.
Look at the countries at theirborder, but do you think that
their cultures are the same inthose two areas?
They're not At all.
They're not.
They're too different.
And look at India.
(02:50):
We think of India.
Most people outside of Indiawell, let me rephrase that Most
Americans, who are very ignorantabout most of Asia, think of
India as one culture and onepeople.
And that is so silly to me,because I understand India has
hundreds of languages.
Some are big and some are small.
(03:12):
Not everybody speaks Hindi.
There are people that speakEnglish.
There are people that speak noEnglish at all.
They have so many differentcultures and languages within
their borders.
Just because a country has atitle and a name doesn't mean
the people within it are all thesame, and that is something
that people often think about.
That people often assumeincorrectly, right, right?
(03:35):
So now, now that I explainedall of that, that is very
relevant to the rest of thisconversation.
I just wanted to put thatunderstanding out there.
So, erica of this conversation,I just wanted to put that
understanding out there.
So, erica, right now talk aboutthe impact of cultural
background on trauma.
Can you tell us a little bitabout that?
Erica Bess (03:52):
Absolutely so a lot of times.
Cultural backgrounds obviouslythat comes from generations
before us and it shapes how wethink, it shapes the things that
we do and a lot of times itforms our morals and it
sometimes makes us look at theworld through a different lens
because of the people that camebefore us.
(04:14):
It shapes how we look at thingsas well.
So a lot of times when you'recoming from a traumatized
background, you have a tendencyto look at things from a
traumatized standpoint, becausenot that you to look at things
from a traumatized standpoint,because not that you've
necessarily gone through thattrauma, but people that have
reared you and have reared thepeople that have reared you have
gone through trauma.
And then you pick up thatmindset and kind of look at
(04:37):
things from a hypervigilantstandpoint or just very just on
edge most of the time and youbecome traumatized through that,
you know.
And then you're going toexperience your own trauma as
well, but this is yourgenerational trauma that's
having an effect on you.
Fatima Bey (04:52):
I'm going to give an example of my own, my own
personal family, my grandmother.
Now I'm African-American, I'mBlack.
My grandmother grew up she wasborn in the I think the 30s I
forget how long ago but mygrandmother grew up Black, was
born in the I think the 30s Iforget how long ago, but my
grandmother grew up black inAmerica, so naturally she grew
up during Jim Crow.
(05:12):
She grew up.
I remember constantly hearingfrom my grandmother stuff about
white people, why she wastraumatized by what she had gone
through, what that wholegeneration well generations went
through as black people inamerica right and she constantly
(05:35):
had it in her head, theseparation of black and white.
Now, because I grew up inminneapolis and I am part white
because my mother's half white,I I grew up in Minneapolis I
didn't grow up with that mindsetat all because in Minneapolis,
where I grew up, it was theopposite, like the idea of it
was just the opposite.
(05:55):
So we didn't yeah, I didn'tgrow up with that sort of a,
that sort of trauma.
Racism is built into Americanculture.
It still exists and it still is.
We've been working on it but wehaven't arrived yet.
So it still is.
So that impacted mygrandmother's worldview and she
(06:16):
was a sweetheart, she washilarious Don't piss her off
which is I inherited her genes.
Erica Bess (06:24):
Right, I was just about to say that.
You took it right out of mymouth like oh, you take after
your grandma, okay?
Fatima Bey (06:30):
I'm nice and sweet until you push just the right
button.
Then you better move out oftown and hide your family and
get plastic surgery and changeyour name.
That's all I ask.
So anyway, no, but really.
But my grandmother used toalways make these statements and
me and my sister would justkind of dismiss them because we
understood where she was comingfrom?
Erica Bess (06:48):
She's coming from a traumatized point of view.
Fatima Bey (06:50):
But let's talk about being Black in America.
We are still traumatized bythat.
Erica Bess (06:56):
Right, we have our own each level of traumatization
of that experience.
Fatima Bey (07:01):
It becomes less and less with each generation if we
work at it.
Yes, but trauma and I'm usingthe example of Black America
because that's what we both areand we understand but this is
true for people in China, peoplewho went through older
generations that were under MaoZedong.
(07:21):
They think differently thanthis younger generation.
They were traumatized by someof that stuff, you know, the the
uh, uh, just oh, so much stuff.
They were traumatized by thatand they pass that down to other
people.
I know a friend who her she's,she's a white American.
Her grandmother, hergrandparents, they went through
(07:44):
the great depression.
Her grandmother, hergrandparents, they went through
the great depression, so theyhad a mindset of salvage
everything, save everything,wrap everything in plastic don't
.
They didn't have this wastefulright, didn't have this wasteful
mindset that we now have.
I just know that.
I just remember us having thisconversation about it.
Uh, the generationaldifferences, and actually that's
what we were talking about.
But for her they weretraumatized and that trauma got
(08:08):
passed on to her parents.
They were taught to be, I wouldsay, overly cautious.
It's good to be wise, it's goodto be frugal, but they were
overly cautious because of thetrauma of the Great Depression.
Right, that makes sense to me.
So I'm just giving examplesthat we can all relate to from
(08:34):
where I am as an American.
But if you're in a differentcountry, you have been
traumatized by war.
I have met people in thiscountry from all over the world.
I absolutely love it.
One of the countries that Iwill never, ever forget is the
Bosnian War.
I forget when it happened.
I think it was the late 90s.
It was sometime in the 90s, soforgive me, I don't remember the
(08:55):
year, but I worked with peoplewho went through that war.
It permanently traumatized them.
They never were the same afterthat, traumatized them.
They never were the same afterthat, and they shared personal
stories with me.
Some of them shared storieswith me that had never come out
of their mouth to anyone before,and I felt very honored and
humbled by that.
But I was also wowed.
(09:16):
I don't even know what word togive it but it affected them.
And then you have to.
You went through this war andnow you come over to America, to
this totally different culturewhere people other you because
you don't speak English yet, andjust how do you react to that?
So my point in saying all thatis cultural background affects
(09:36):
your trauma as well, becauseit's not just you know.
As Erica said before, traumaaffects your worldview period,
but then couple that with yourcultural background, right, that
makes it worse.
Erica Bess (09:51):
So, talking, about Definitely intensifies.
Fatima Bey (09:54):
Yes, it can intensify.
It can actually make it worse,because it can make you not seek
the help that you need.
But we're going to talk aboutthat in a second.
Let's talk aboutmicroaggressions, because I
think microaggressions peopledon't necessarily understand.
We use the word constantly butnot enough examples are given
outside of being Black inAmerica.
Okay so, because that's theonly time I ever hear it spoken
(10:18):
of Right Microaggressions howwould you define
microaggressions, erica?
Erica Bess (10:24):
A statement, an action or an incident regarded
as an incident of indirect,subtle or unintentional
discrimination against membersof a marginalized group, such as
racial or ethnic minorities.
Fatima Bey (10:39):
There we go.
So I have some examples.
I pulled up some examples forthis episode and in this
particular example these arestatements made to women in
misogynistic societies.
I want to say something aboutthat for a second.
When people think ofmisogynistic societies most at
(11:04):
least Americans I don't knowabout outside of America, but in
America people often associatethat with Muslim communities.
Erica Bess (11:13):
Yes.
Fatima Bey (11:14):
But that is so narrow it is, and it is, yeah,
it's definitely true in someIslamic countries.
There's so much more than that,but it's so much.
It's definitely true in some,in some islamic countries
absolutely so much more thanthat, but it's so much, it's not
just them yeah I would say thisis an issue in much of africa,
much of asia, almost all ofeastern europe I think it's
(11:37):
probably in all parts of theworld it's it, yeah, more than
others, but those are the topplaces I can think of.
I'm sure there's other placesthat I'm not naming because I
just don't know them, but thoseare the ones that come to the
top of my head.
So don't just think of oh,you're talking about people in
the Middle East.
No, there I can name certaincountries, like Ecuador, for
example.
(11:57):
They're known for that.
There are many countries in theand that's over.
On this side of the world.
There are many countries in theworld for which, for whom this
is an issue where the misogynyis built into their culture.
It's baked in as much as racismis baked into America, and it
does affect how they deal withtheir trauma.
So I'm going to read thesestatements You're so pretty, you
(12:19):
don't need to be smart.
Fatima theoretically reachesout and smacks that person
upside the head.
Now, people actually say stupidstatements like that to women.
They really do.
Erica Bess (12:32):
And expect them to feel confident.
Fatima Bey (12:34):
Exactly.
Can you handle this task?
It's quite challenging for awoman, I'm sorry.
It's hard not to laugh at thesestupid statements.
Oh, that's a nice idea, butlet's hear what the men think.
That's a real statement thatwomen around the world really do
hear.
Another one is you should dressmore modestly to avoid
(12:56):
attracting unwanted attention.
Erica Bess (12:58):
Oh, my goodness.
Fatima Bey (12:59):
This is what people say in rape culture.
I'm just saying that's a realstatement that gets said to
people in cultures where rape isblamed on the woman.
Erica Bess (13:08):
I had that happen to me just at work when I was
about 14, 15 years old.
I was dressed in businessattire because my school wanted
us to learn how to prepare forinterviews and going forward
with being in the corporateworld.
Fatima Bey (13:23):
So on.
Erica Bess (13:23):
Mondays we had to wear, you know, business attire
and this weirdo came into thelibrary that I was working at
and he said some inappropriatethings to me and I told the
librarian.
They ended up calling thepolice.
The police said to me at 14, 15years old well, maybe you
shouldn't dress so adult.
Looking that way, men won't sayanything to you.
(13:45):
And I was like, sir, I go to aschool that is preparing me for
a career and to be professional.
What I have on is notinappropriate.
And how dare you say that to me?
Fatima Bey (13:57):
That was just promoting a victim culture Like
yeah, it's crazy, yeah, and thishappens around the world, in
different cultures more so thanothers, but it's, it's
disgusting, it really is.
But my point in bringing upthose microaggressions is that
sometimes we don't recognize ourcultural biases.
(14:22):
Let me rephrase that, becauseit's not just about cultural
bias Sometimes we don'trecognize the bad things in our
culture the misogyny, the racism, the ageism, whatever it is in
your particular culture, becauseevery culture has their own
thing, right.
But sometimes we don'trecognize the things that are in
(14:46):
our culture that actually makeour trauma 10 times worse, right
?
Imagine being raped and thenbeing told a stupid ass
statement like that.
Erica Bess (14:55):
Yeah.
Fatima Bey (14:57):
Then you're going to blame yourself for it even more
than you probably already areRight then you're going to blame
yourself for it even more thanyou probably already are Right.
So sometimes how we say things,people, it matters.
Nigerians, it matters,jamaicans, it matters, chinese
it matters.
I'm just picking up randomcultures, but y'all get the
(15:18):
point.
It really matters how weaddress things that people go
through.
It matters because we makepeople worse.
Erica, explain to them howthese statements actually make
trauma worse.
Erica Bess (15:36):
It can just intensify what you're already
experiencing from that traumaand just chip away at your
self-esteem.
And when your self-esteem isbeing chipped away at, it makes
your foundation unsteady.
And then you doubt everythingthat you have going for yourself
and then you just maybe evenself-sabotage because you just
(15:59):
don't think that you're worthanything good or you can't
accomplish anything great.
And then you cut yourself outof opportunities because you
just don't see yourself in thatlight, because you've allowed
that traumatic mindset toovercome you Right, you can't
fly.
Fatima Bey (16:15):
And also I want to talk about being judgmental when
it comes to other cultures.
So this podcast is aninternational podcast for teens
and anything that affects theirfuture.
This subject affects theirfuture because we need teenagers
.
Listen up, we need you to bebetter than us, my generation
(16:52):
and the generation before we'veleft you a mess for real.
I feel like we.
I feel like we've left you amess and I'm speaking in general
terms actually easier for youto be compassionate, it's easier
for you to gain a betterunderstanding of bigger picture
things and make better decisionsin your own life, absolutely
Because understanding otherpeople's cultures is a way to
(17:15):
break the cycle.
Yes, thank you, erica, forsaying that.
Can you explain how?
Erica Bess (17:20):
that's true.
Yes, Thank you, Erica, forsaying that.
Hey, well, in my friend'sfamily they don't do this and I
(17:42):
thought that was normal, youknow.
And then you might realize like, oh, maybe that it isn't so
normal.
It makes you question thingsthat you've gone through and it
expands your mind to be able tounderstand people and also
accept them and learn to embracethem, no matter their
differences as well, and that'show we create unity as well.
Fatima Bey (18:07):
Yes, and especially for young women, if you come
from a culture that'smisogynistic in any kind of way,
because there are varyingdegrees of it.
So every misogynistic countryculture is not the same, so
please also understand that.
But if you come from a culturewhere women are secondary in any
kind of way, you are alreadythinking in ways that are
self-sabotaging and you don'teven realize it because it's
(18:28):
ingrained in you.
It's important to be aroundpeople that are different than
you.
Now again, if you're listening,I have a challenge for you.
I want you to get to knowsomeone who's totally different.
If you are in Japan and there'ssome Africans or Black
(18:51):
Americans or somebody near youthat you don't know, get to know
them.
You've never met any before.
Get to know them.
If you are white American, youcome from a racist family,
redneck, whatever word you wantto call it get to know a black
person who grew up in the hood.
Erica Bess (19:10):
yeah, right and keep an open mind, because you don't
want those micro aggressions tocome out like really have an
open mind and get to know theperson for who they are you're
going to find out that you're alot more like them than you
think.
Fatima Bey (19:22):
exactly that's something I've learned through
observation, having worked with,actually, both of those
communities from a supervisorystandpoint Right.
Erica Bess (19:30):
You might find your best friend.
Fatima Bey (19:32):
Yeah, for real, for real.
But it doesn't matter what thedifference is.
The difference doesn't have tobe race.
The difference could becultural.
You might be the same race, butcultural differences.
You grew up in the Northeast.
You only know the Northeasttype of mindset.
Someone's from the deep South.
Get to know them becausethey're from a different culture
(19:54):
too.
It's not only race.
Just get to know somebodydifferent than you.
It will expand and open up yourmind and let her talk to those
who are around, people who aretraumatized.
Let me rephrase that youth whoare traumatized.
Erica Bess (20:22):
And tell them how they can deal with them or help.
Well, in order to deal with theyouth that are traumatized,
they're going to have to be ableto get a support system and
most times nine times out of 10,there is no support system for
them.
So I would like to offer myservices to them and, even if
(20:42):
it's for a consultation, just totalk to somebody and reach out
and connect with ericabestcom,they can reach me there.
They need to be able to havepeople that they can trust and
look up to and feel safe talkingabout what they've experienced.
And, like you said, with themisogynistic tendencies within a
(21:04):
lot of the cultures and I'lluse rape as an example how many
women do you think are, like,just so afraid to come forward
or even say that somebody didsomething to them, because of
fear of being shamed for evenbeing assaulted, you know.
So there's a lot of girls outthere that are sitting and
holding their trauma deep downand they're trying to keep it
(21:27):
stuffed down, but it's affecting, I'm sure, deep down and
they're trying to keep it stuffdown, but it's affecting, I'm
sure, every aspect of their life.
And what needs to happen is aculture shift so that the women
feel comfortable speaking up andthat the men actually get some
control in themselves as well.
It's not just the women.
Fatima Bey (21:46):
Yeah, no, exactly.
I want to add something for theyoung women specifically.
I'm talking to young womenright now, for the young women
that are out there that youdon't have anybody you can talk
to.
You don't have that supportsystem.
You don't have you.
You are afraid to talk aboutwhat you know.
Like Erica just said, you'reafraid to talk about what's
(22:09):
happened to you and you havenobody to talk to.
If you can get a call toAmerica and talk to Erica, you
should, because one thing I cantell you about both of us we are
not interested in trying toAmericanize you.
You could be Muslim, weunderstand that.
You could be from Bulgaria, wedon't care.
Erica Bess (22:31):
Right.
Fatima Bey (22:32):
There are people who actually do care and want you
to know that you know everythingisn't your fault and you
shouldn't shut up for whathappened to you.
You should deal with it.
You don't have to deal with itway out publicly and openly and
act all crazy.
We're not saying that you do.
Just because we're Americandoesn't mean that we think that
(22:57):
we want you to know that thereare other women out here who
care and we want you to be wholeand you can be.
You might have to do itdifferently in your culture and
country than we do here inAmerica, right, but there is
hope.
(23:19):
I've met women from differentparts of the world who actually
do care, so reach out, even ifit's just to me.
You can't call Erica becauseyou don't have.
You can't reach out to Americanphone numbers.
I do have a WhatsApp on mywebsite and most people in the
world can get on WhatsApp.
You can reach out to me thatway and I can forward you to
(23:42):
somebody somewhere.
But we want you to know foryoung women.
Please reach out and just knowthat there are people who care
and there are people that wantto support you.
I don't care what language youspeak and I don't care what
country you're in.
I don't care what culture youcome from.
That's all just stuff to me.
You're a woman.
Erica Bess (24:03):
You're a woman.
You need support.
You're a young woman.
You're a girl.
Fatima Bey (24:09):
That's what we care about and we need to support
each other and for everybodyelse out there listening, please
make it a point to try tounderstand our youth, instead of
telling them just what to doand yelling at them Because you
are making their trauma worse.
It's almost like you'rereabusing them.
Absolutely, I want you to thinkabout that, all right, well,
(24:34):
erica, thank you so much forcoming on, um.
You've already told people howthey can find you, um, and your,
your.
I will put your uh link intothe show notes or the podcast
description, and this has been areally good conversation and we
(24:54):
will talk about this again,because there's a whole lot that
we didn't talk about, because16, nobody's going to list to a
16 hour podcast.
Absolutely, thank you forhaving me.
We only touched on the surfacetoday, but we really hope that
this touches someone and changesa life.
Thank you, and now for a mindshifting moment, I want to put
(25:23):
plant a thought seed in yourhead today.
Sometimes we look at people andwe're like why is she acting
crazy, why is he doing that?
And we don't really think aboutwhat caused them to arrive at
the behavior that we're judging.
Sometimes what we're looking atis a trauma response within a
(25:48):
cultural mindset.
I want you to really sit downand think about what that means
and what that looks like,because you have seen it.
But now I want you to start torecognize that.
Thank you for listening.
Be sure to follow or subscribeto MindShift Power podcast on
(26:11):
any of our worldwide platformsso you, too, can be a part of
the conversation that's changingyoung lives everywhere.
And always remember there'spower in shifting your thinking.
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