August 19, 2025 • 34 mins
Have you ever been told your light shines too bright? That you need to tone it down or fit in? In this illuminating conversation with Julie Wignall, author of "The Extraordinary Power of Fireflies," we explore why authenticity both attracts and repels—and why that's perfectly okay.
Julie challenges us to stop living in fear despite the overwhelming challenges of our time: political polarization, climate change, AI advancement, and information overload. "It's time to stop complaining about what's happening and start thinking about the world we want to create," she says. "We get to be architects of our own future."
This episode dives deep into what it truly means to be authentic. Julie shares how we often lose touch with our true selves early in life, recounting a powerful moment when a 15-year-old at-risk teen told her: "No one has ever asked me what makes me happy." From childhood, we're told what should bring us joy rather than discovering it ourselves.
One of the most profound insights Julie offers is her concept of "advocacy before activism"—the critical importance of listening deeply before attempting solutions. Through compelling examples, including her own failures, she demonstrates how even well-intentioned efforts can miss the mark when we don't consult those we're trying to help.
For young leaders facing opposition, Julie provides practical wisdom: know your purpose, establish your code of values, and find your tribe. When people tell you your light is too bright? "Walk around with extra pairs of sunglasses and hand them out." Never dim your light to make others comfortable.
We explore why four generations need to work together for meaningful change, the courage it takes to stand in your truth, and why our broken systems desperately need authentic voices. As Julie powerfully states: "It's not revolution, it's resolution."
What dreams have you buried to fit in? What light are you not shining? This conversation will inspire you to reconnect with your authentic self and find the courage to shine brighter.
Visit extraordinaryfireflies.com to download Julie's free guide "Flying Lessons for Fireflies" with exercises to build confidence and embrace your authentic self.
To learn more about Julie or her book, please visit:
http://www.extraordinaryfireflies.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Fatima Bey (00:04):
This is MindShift Power Podcast, the number one
critically acclaimed podcastwhere we have raw, unfiltered
conversations that shapetomorrow.
I'm your host, Fatima Bey, theMindShifter, and welcome
everyone.
Today we have with us JulieWagnall, and she is the author
(00:29):
of the Extraordinary Power ofFireflies how to Shine your
Light Brighter and Transform theWorld.
How are you doing today, Julie?
I'm doing.
Great.
Thanks for having me and thankyou for coming on.
I was really looking forward tomeeting you and having this
conversation, so I like to diveright into the conversation.
So let me start off by askingyou this why are you on this
(00:51):
podcast and why should we listento you?
Julie Wignall (00:55):
I love your question.
I believe that the world isgoing through a major shift
right now and that there's a lotthat's out there.
A lot of people are scared thatwe've got crazy things
happening politically, not justhere in the United States, but
all over the world.
We're dealing with climatechange, we're dealing with AI,
(01:16):
we're dealing with an overloadof information, and I believe
that a lot of people are scared,and I'm here to say we need to
stop being afraid.
It's time to learn to shine ourlights brighter and it's time
to stop complaining about what'shappening and start thinking
about the world we want tocreate the world that we want to
(01:37):
live in, because we get to bearchitects of our own future of
our own future.
Fatima Bey (01:51):
That is wonderful.
So you have a your book.
The Extraordinary Power ofFireflies is pretty.
It's pretty power packed.
So we're going to talk aboutthat, but we're going to micro
focus on some parts of the bookbecause I think that our
audience can really gain a lotfrom it.
So, julie, your book isn't justabout shining your light.
You talk about how a fireflycan be a hero to some and a
(02:12):
villain to others.
Why is it so important toinclude that tough reality?
And what did you see in yourown life that taught you that
shining your light can get youin trouble?
Julie Wignall (02:23):
I think that we all grow up with a culture,
family, society that tells usthis is what it means to be a
good person, and a lot of timeswhat we are enculturated with,
what it means to be a goodperson is really to like things
that we don't like.
You know, somebody would say,oh, we're having fish for dinner
(02:43):
.
I don't like fish.
Of course you do.
It makes your Aunt Nellie sohappy coming to eat the fish.
We do things.
We forget what we like and whatwe don't like because we're so
busy trying to be good.
We have this concept of that'swhat good kids do and we need to
reevaluate that.
(03:05):
To say, wait a minute, maybe.
Being good means beingauthentic, being honest and
being open and, you know, havinga code of values that maybe
don't fit in someone else's.
Being true to yourself.
If being true to yourselfbecause you are following a
(03:28):
different path or following thetune of a different drum beat,
that doesn't mean that you'renot good.
You know it's like let's kindof redefine this and that, no
matter what we do, when we stepup and we shine our lights
bright and we're authentic andwe're being true to ourselves,
(03:49):
to me that really is the meaning, the true meaning, of being
good, and there will always bepeople who will embrace what we
do, but we are always going totick a lot of people off who are
going to find it offensive.
How dare you and it can be assimple as saying I want to grow
up and be an find it offensive.
How dare you?
And it can be as simple assaying I want to grow up and be
an artist.
Well, how dare you?
(04:09):
You're going to be a starvingartist and you know we're going
to tell you everything that'sgoing to be wrong.
You're terrible.
We don't want anything to.
You know genders and you know.
However you see yourself,there's always going to be
someone who tells you that whatyou do is terrible.
As nice as you can be, I amcoming to you from Las Vegas,
(04:33):
nevada, where I believe stronglyin the importance of taking
care of animals that migratethrough here.
Now, you would think that thisis the simplest thing.
I should be a hero.
I make sure that there'sdrought-tolerant grass, because
we live in the desert and we areon the Great Pacific Flyway.
(04:55):
We have got tens of thousandsof birds who need places to rest
and to feed before theycontinue on.
Well, that certainly soundslike I'm wonderful to feed
before they continue on.
Well, that certainly soundslike I'm wonderful.
I have huge groups of people whothink that I am just the enemy
of everybody and everything,because I'm wasting water,
(05:17):
feeding the grass and providingthese shaded areas.
This is the desert and I shouldjust let it be 115 degrees and
let the birds just die.
So to one group, oh, I'mwonderful for being
environmentally aware, helpingto cool down our heat island
effect.
To another group, I am what Ihave been called selfish,
(05:42):
entitled water waster, becausewho really cares about birds or
the outside environment?
We're beginning to live in asociety where everything is
indoors anyway and there arethings like bugs outside.
Why would you want to be there?
So I'm the enemy.
So if something as simple asthat that you think, well, this
(06:04):
must be really clear that thisis a good thing, no matter what
it is.
Someone's going to see it asgreat and someone's going to see
it as horrible, so as long asthat's the reality, you might as
well choose to live a life thatis as authentic to yourself as
(06:24):
you can and be happy.
I am of the belief system thatwe are here to be happy and I
choose happiness, and part ofthat is knowing what that is,
and for most of us it's living alife that's authentic and true
to ourselves.
Fatima Bey (06:42):
What would you say would be another word for
authentic?
Julie Wignall (06:49):
to ourselves.
What would you say would beanother word for authentic?
Diving deep, I'm going to tellyou.
To me, it's awareness.
Being authentic is being awareof who you are, what you need
when you need quiet time.
I just need time alone.
Yes, you're my friend and Iwant to spend time with you and
go to see a movie or go shoppingor something, but I just really
need me time being aware, andwe're not aware of a lot of that
(07:10):
.
I have this theory that when weare very young, we begin to
forget what makes us happy.
When I work with clients,whether it's corporate or
individual, of any age, one ofthe first things I start with is
what makes you happy, and letme tell you where that came from
.
Many years ago, I worked in aproject with kids who were
(07:33):
considered at risk in Utah, in aplace where wide, wide open
space, and these were kids whowere sent from all over the
United States by parents whosaid, oh, they can't make it,
we're just we're going to shipthem off and let someone else
deal with them and it'd be theirproblem.
And I got to do anenvironmental education program
(07:55):
with them.
These were 15 year old boys andincredibly smart, very creative
, very innovative, but also theyall carried a chip on their
shoulder and they had a lot ofanger.
And after the second day ofworking with them, I stopped and
I said you know what, if I wereyour fairy godmother?
And I said I'm here to makeevery dream and wish of yours
(08:17):
come true, whatever it is, thatwould make you happy?
What would make you happy,happy?
What would make you happy?
And I faced a room of blankstairs and I thought well, this
didn't land.
And finally one of the boysspoke up and he said you know
what?
I'm 15 years old and no one hasever asked me what makes me
(08:39):
happy.
I've been told since I'm a kid.
You know this makes you happy.
That makes you happy.
I liked the color pink when Iwas little and, kid, you know,
this makes you happy.
That makes you happy.
I liked the color pink when Iwas little and you know, someone
said to me no, boys, don't likepink, you have to like blue and
you have to like green andthat's going to make you happy.
And we feed into this becausewhen we are good people, nice
(09:03):
people, we want to make otherpeople happy.
So we put our own happiness tothe side, and what I'm hearing
is that we forget it.
Fatima Bey (09:14):
Yeah Well, we forget it because people are like oh
no, put a cover over that light.
Yes, it's too bright, put acover over it, mm-hmm.
Now I'm going to ask you thisbecause that leads into the next
question I wanted to ask you.
A lot of young people arescared to speak up because they
don't want to be called atroublemaker or a bully or
figure out a name.
(09:34):
How does a teenager find thecourage to be the hero, even
when their friends, families,teachers or anyone else around
them is telling them to shut upand be quiet?
Julie Wignall (09:45):
One of the first lessons that I teach is to look
around you very closely and knowwhere you're getting support
and where you're not gettingsupport.
And a lot of times you can't cutyourself off.
You're a teenager, you havefamily.
You can't cut yourself off.
But if you are not surroundedby any kind of encouragement or
(10:05):
support, it's time to grow yourcircle bigger, and one of the
things I work with are a numberof different groups, and these
are just free-form groups and Iam learning that they are in
every community.
You just have to put yourselfout there, Follow what it is
that you like, and I believethat every group that really
(10:26):
wants to be effective and youwant to feel good about things.
We need four generationsinvolved.
It can't just be one, becausefrom a younger generation you
need the support from someonewho's in an older generation,
who goes baby I've been fightingthis fight and here's the ins
and outs but people who treateach other with respect and
(10:48):
awareness and are welcoming,providing a safe space and
provide encouragement andsupport to continue, because
what you find is, as a teenager,you find that you need to step
up and, a lot of times, supportpeople who are older than you to
give them the courage to keepgoing.
You don't think that you havethat kind of power as a teenager
(11:11):
.
When you start dealing on thatauthentic level.
You realize every single one ofus needs to be encouraged.
Every single one of us needs toknow that it's okay, we're on
the right path.
We all have tough weeks andtough days, but that's why we're
there for each other.
Fatima Bey (11:31):
I think you just took all of that from inside my
brain.
Stop stealing my thoughts.
I agree with every single thingyou just said, and in fact it's
stuff that I'm constantly Ifind myself preaching and
teaching.
But I love what you said justnow about four generations,
because that is a perspectiveyou don't hear from everyone.
I agree with you, but it's aperspective that you just don't
(11:54):
hear.
It's a mind shift and so it'sperfect for it is a mind shift.
Julie Wignall (11:58):
And let's think about this for a minute.
You have anyone up to the ageof 10, 12, there's going to be a
lot of hey, I'm bored.
When is it time to play?
We're very play focused, butthen we become teenagers and
things become very serious andwe forget the importance of play
, because that's super important.
(12:18):
But then I also tell teenagerspay attention, if you listen to,
I don't care if it's a musician, if it's a playwright, if it's
a poet, if it's whatever.
Most people as adults will tellyou that they got their best
ideas when they were 13, 14, 15years old, that they came from.
(12:41):
Yes, yes yes yes, a period oftime there that is so magical.
I tell everybody, keep ajournal, write stuff down.
There's a time that's magicaland I think it's because the way
that our culture and societyworks, there's this time period
where we're bored.
And when you're bored andyou're laying there in your room
or on the grass watching cloudsgo by, or whatever you're doing
(13:04):
, you're allowing yourself tothink and to get in touch with
that inner, authentic self,becoming aware of that of you,
and that's where amazing ideascome out, unbelievable
creativity.
But then what happens afterteenagers?
You go into your 20s, your 30s.
People are trying to climb acareer ladder, they're looking
(13:26):
at relationships, they'redealing with family situations
and they don't have time tothink.
They don't have time for any ofthat that was a luxury of when
you were a teenager.
They need to be reminded ofthis.
So by the time you get to the20s, the 30s, the 40s, you need
your teenagers to remind you ofdeep thoughts and becoming super
(13:49):
aware of ourselves.
But you also need the10-year-old to remind you hello,
it's time to play.
And when you keep moving up theladder, you start dealing with
people in their late 70s and 80sand they start remembering the
importance of play all overagain, because they go this goes
so fast.
I feel like I was just 10 yearsold a few weeks ago.
(14:09):
I need to play and it's time tostand up, and you don't want to
wait until you're in your 80sto shine your light and to do
all the things that you want todo.
You want to start doing it now,and it's not easy to do when
you're a teenager, which is whyyou want that whole round robin
support system.
Fatima Bey (14:29):
I absolutely love the way you put that and the way
you're framing that isabsolutely beautiful.
I want to go back to somethingyou said a moment ago and
talking to the audience.
What Julie just said just nowis absolutely true.
Some of your best ideas thatyou're going to remember later
on in life are happening rightnow, or maybe happened when you
were 10, 12, or 13 years old.
(14:51):
You are not stupid, dumb orweird for your thoughts.
You need to bring them out anddo something with them.
Don't ever think that yourideas are crazy.
Maybe your ideas are justbefore the times and maybe the
people around you don't get yourideas, but your ideas aren't
crazy.
You might just need to get withan adult to figure out how to
(15:12):
do those ideas, but I havediscovered that none of you have
really crazy ideas.
They're good ideas, but theyget buried under conformity and
they get buried under trying tobe like everyone else.
So take that advice from Julieand discover who you are.
Become aware of who you are,because who you are is always
(15:35):
there.
Just become aware of it andstart acting on it.
I love your stance on that, andso I'm going to ask you this
about something that you say inyour book?
You say advocacy beforeactivism.
What does that actually meanand how does it help a young
person to create real changewithout starting a fight or
(15:57):
burning other bridges?
Julie Wignall (16:00):
You want.
When I talk advocacy beforeactivism, it means learning to
listen and finding out what's atthe root of why something's not
working, not just to say it'snot working and this is the way
it need to do.
So I'm going to stand upagainst it and let me let me
(16:20):
give you an example here andthis happened from a lot of
adults that this is a projectthat I followed from the time I
was a teenager into adulthood.
I thought was so clever.
Now imagine this In a lot ofcommunities in different
countries in Africa, one of thebiggest problems that women and
(16:41):
girls have is they spend themajority of their days walking
to go get water.
We don't think about this.
We turn on a tap.
These guys spend their entireday walking to get the water,
walking back to the village tobring it back.
So when did they get the chanceto follow their dreams, to do
(17:02):
what they want to do?
So there was an engineer whocame up with what I thought was
an absolutely brilliant idea,and he called it play pumps.
You can actually look this upand research it and you know
those little merry-go-roundthings that we all played on
when we were kids in theplayground, and they go around
and around and around.
He designed one of those forkids to play on it, but what it
(17:23):
was also doing was pumping upwater which would free the women
and the girls of any village upso that they didn't have to do
this.
It sounded like a brilliantidea.
Well, I wasn't the only one whothought it was a brilliant idea
.
If you go down some of the topleaders in the world and these
people who were parts of bigorganizations, they also thought
(17:44):
that these were great ideas.
Everybody invested in it andthey started to put it in
different communities indifferent countries in Africa
Well, the countries that theywere working in.
There was a major problem here.
They forgot to be advocates.
They forgot to go into thecountry and say we're not, you
(18:05):
know, instead of saying, well,we're here from the West and
we're here to solve all yourproblems.
Tell us how you see yourproblems, let us hear from you
and tell us the best way that wecan help at them.
You know, we have this Americanway too often of saying, oh,
(18:25):
we're going to go into thiscountry and tell everybody what
to do and how to do it.
We're not asking.
We need to go in, we need toask, and they didn't do that.
So they all picked places wherethese play pumps were going to
go in.
We need to ask, and they didn'tdo that.
So they all picked places wherethese play pumps were going to
go and nobody used them.
They didn't.
You know, they were dealing incultures where it was very
important to give respect to theelders, and it would have been
(18:49):
the elders who would have chosenthe right spot.
They never did that, and thateven happens here in the United
States.
Through my work, I had the goodfortune to be adopted into a
Pueblo, a Native American Puebloin New Mexico.
There was.
(19:18):
I was actually doing a filmingproject and made it very clear
I'm not here just to tell youyour story.
This is your story.
You're here to tell me what todo, I'm here to learn and I'm
here to listen, and that's aconcept of being an advocate
when things aren't alwaysworking the way that we want.
We have to do the research tofind out why Mm-hmm, and we have
to listen.
Fatima Bey (19:35):
Absolutely.
I love that Listen first, andthat's a lesson for everybody.
If you really want to getsomething done, you've got to
listen first, because you can'tsolve a problem you don't
understand.
Julie Wignall (19:46):
Yes, and I'll tell you one more thing.
I actually wrote this story inmy book, one of my famous
stories.
I was the director of theNational Aquarium in Washington
DC and I created I have thenotoriety of having created the
very first education program forkids who are visually impaired,
(20:06):
and that sounds wonderful.
So how did I do it?
I thought this is somethingthat hasn't been done.
It should be done.
I spent nine months researchingthis and I spent time talking to
PhDs.
I was working with theSmithsonian Institution and
everybody that knew anything andhad a very big, important name
(20:26):
dealing with people who areblind, people who are visually
impaired.
And I created the program justlike they told me to.
And I had the day of doing mypilot.
And when I tell you, it was oneof the biggest failures that I
have ever encountered.
Everything I had been taughtand told did not work with the
group that came in.
(20:47):
It was a mess.
15 minutes into the program Istopped everything and I
apologized to the kids that wehad there and I said I made a
mistake.
I was an activist before I wasan advocate.
I forgot to go to the mostimportant group there.
Who was I trying to reach.
(21:07):
I was trying to develop aprogram for visually impaired
kids.
I'm talking to scientists andPhDs and psychologists.
I forgot to go to the kids tosay you're who, I'm talking to
scientists and PhDs andpsychologists.
I forgot to go to the kids tosay you're who I'm trying to
reach.
I need listening to you.
You tell me what's going towork and what's not going to
work.
So I invited them to helpcreate the program with me,
(21:28):
which they did, and the wholeprogram ended up being based on
their input.
Fatima Bey (21:34):
And that's how you get something to function.
All of you who are listeningout there trying to create
programs that aren't working,maybe you're not listening.
First, I always say this kindof goes with what I always say
reach people where they are.
Stop throwing the ball to theleft when the people are on the
right, and very often we're like, well, everybody should be on
the left, so I'm going to throwthe ball to the left, but you
(21:56):
didn't take the time to find outwhere they are, and I mean
where they are mentally, wherethey are financially, where they
are emotionally, where are they?
And that's how you reach people.
Julie Wignall (22:05):
And sometimes by listening, you find out you
think that they should be on theright.
They're on the left and youfind out there's a really good
reason.
They're on the left, are on theleft, and you find out there's
a really good reason.
Fatima Bey (22:16):
they're on the left, and that's a good place to be
that you never even thoughtabout.
Yeah, got to listen first.
Yeah, absolutely love that.
So let's talk to the youngleaders.
So let's say you're a youngleader, you're trying to do the
right thing and everyone iscalling you the bad guy.
How do you find strength tobelieve in yourself and your own
perspective when the world istelling you that you're the
villain?
Julie Wignall (22:37):
Well, the world is always going to tell you that
you're the villain.
I find it the importance ofyou've got to start with.
What is it that you're tryingto do, what gives your life
meaning or purpose, or whyyou're in the position the first
place?
Because this is important toyou and you got to know why it's
important to you.
And then you have to know yourcode of values.
(23:00):
You have to know what you standfor, and this becomes really
important when you're younger,because if you are trying to
become an activist or trying tolead a group or to set something
new and different, your code ofvalues is going to determine
the choices you make.
(23:20):
When you say I have a code ofvalues, that means it has to
have integrity and it's going tosupport kindness.
But all of a sudden, here's acompany that says I'm going to
back you, I like what you'redoing, and they're like the
biggest bullies in the community.
There should be no question.
(23:43):
If you know your code of values, you go.
I'm not aligned with thesepeople.
And you have to focus on whatyour values are and what you are
aligned with, so that you atleast feel comfortable knowing
that there's a reason why you'restanding up, there's a reason
(24:04):
why you may be getting a lot ofpushback, but again, when you do
that, there are people who needto hear what you have to say
yes, yes, there are people whowill help you to come up to the
next level, and that's part ofthat multi-generational.
But when you're a teenager,this is really hard to remember,
(24:28):
which is why I think it's soimportant to have the support
and encouragement for that.
When you're taking a stand onsomething or you're trying to
accomplish something new, youthink that it's great.
Other people think that you'rethe villain.
You don't really understand why, but people take you down and
all of a sudden you get thathate on social media and I never
(24:50):
understood that until I hadsome directed at me and it was
like oh my gosh, boy, did thatbring me down?
I can only imagine how I wouldhave felt when I was 13, 14, 17.
But it's knowing what you'rebelieving in and knowing that,
inside, the most important thingto realize is that when you
(25:13):
shine your light brighter,you're giving permission for
someone else to step out on thepath with you, someone who might
have been standing on thesidelines with the same wishes
and dreams and hopes without thecourage that you have, and
courage is not innate.
Courage is not something thatwe're all born with.
(25:33):
I would love to think so, andmaybe for some people it is, but
for most of us courage issomething that we have to
cultivate and work on.
It's like exercise that we haveto work on every day to be able
to stand up.
But once you're doing it,you're sending a message to a
lot of other people saying ifthey can do it, I can come and
step out in the light too.
Fatima Bey (25:56):
What I'm extracting from what you just said is find
some alignment.
Find your tribe, find thepeople that will actually
support you, because there'salways going to be people that
call you the villain for makingthem uncomfortable because you
want to do something new anddifferent.
Anytime we stand up, I don'tcare who you are or how old you
are.
Anytime we stand up.
But especially if you're youthand you're being told to shut up
and sit down because you'reonly 16, what the hell do you
(26:18):
know?
That's when you need to shut upand sit down because you're
only 16, what the hell do youknow?
That's when you need to standup and show the other
16-year-olds that you're worthsomething and they can too.
And that's also when you takethat stand and you make the
decision to stand strong,despite how you feel.
You make that decision, you'realso showing the adults I'm not
just a stupid little kid,because some adults do think
(26:39):
that way.
Unfortunately they do.
Julie Wignall (26:41):
And if you keep looking, you will find adults
who want to hear what you haveto say and, yes, value, and it's
not just, oh, I want to hearwhat you have to say.
Who really value what you haveto say.
There's a lot.
There's a lot that I learn andI know that there's a lot that a
(27:01):
lot of other people know.
You know, being older, I grewup at a time where I was just
told, as a female, to acceptcertain things.
Oh, I want to talk to a sevenyear old today.
They'd say, why would yousettle for that?
Why would you?
And it's like I need that wakeup call and that's where we all
work together.
(27:21):
So, and it's it's the light inme sees the light in you, and
it's having that mutual respectto know that we all bring
something very, very special tothe table and everybody is worth
listening to.
And I'll tell you, even whenyou find your quote-unquote
(27:43):
tribe and a group that's there,you're still going to intimidate
people because ego still getsin the way.
And I had a wonderful person whogave me this advice and I'm
going to share it with everybodywho's listening, because I was
recently in this situation at aconference with people who are
all looking to change the worldand doing wonderful things and
(28:05):
things that were unconventional.
And I had someone say to me butJulie, your light is so bright,
you have so much energy.
You need to bring it back inand condense that a little bit.
That's just too much.
And I had someone who hadadvised me on this a long time
before and they said you knowwhat, walk around with extra
(28:26):
pairs of sunglasses and you handthem out.
Fatima Bey (28:29):
I love that.
I may steal that myself, andyou are welcome to.
Oh, much to brag for you, honey.
Here, put these glasses on.
That's exactly right.
There you go.
Julie Wignall (28:40):
Yeah, you.
Just you put your shades on,because I'm not dimming my light
for anything, and I say this toevery young person who is
listening to this young adult,teenager, identify any way that
you want.
I'm going to repeat this again.
The world is changing right nowand it's changing very quickly,
(29:03):
and one of the reasons why weare in the mess that we're in
whether you're looking at theenvironment or politics or one
thing or other is you get to theroot.
I think it was Desmond Tutu whoonce said you got to get to the
point where, instead of justpulling people out of the river,
you got to find out why they'rejumping in in the first place.
That's a really good quote.
(29:24):
How did we get here?
We got here because our systemsare broken and they don't work.
Yep, our education system, ourhealth care system.
You know all the crazy thingsthat when you're a teenager,
this is ridiculous.
Why do you have to do this?
You're right, this isridiculous and it's because
(29:44):
these systems are broken andthey don't work anymore and it's
time not to fight.
I have a great friend who saysit's not revolution, it's
resolution.
Become resolute and know andget a vision of what it should
look like, and that's what youwork for and that's what you
(30:06):
fight towards, because the wayit's working today doesn't work.
But unless you stand up andshine that light, now is no
longer the time to sit on thesidelines with your hopes and
your dreams and your wishes.
It's time to take all thosethings and take action, and at
any age you can do that as Iasked all my guests, but you
(30:44):
just did so.
Fatima Bey (30:44):
Now I'm going to ask you how can people find you?
Before you answer that, yourbook, the Extraordinary Power of
Fireflies, uses fireflies as ananalogy for many deep
principles of life, and what Ilike about your book is that you
know it looks like another bookabout finding yourself and
being joyful, but you actuallydive a little deeper than the
(31:05):
average what I callfluffernutter book.
It's just full of whipped cream, ain't got nothing substance to
really say and says all thesame things that everybody else
says.
But you actually do dive alittle bit deeper.
In the fact that you don't justtalk about all the nice fluffy
stuff.
You really take a deeper dive.
We've only touched on a pinheadworth of the stuff that's in
(31:26):
your book.
So tell people how can theyfind you and how can they find
your book.
Julie Wignall (31:32):
All you have to remember is
wwwextraordinaryfirefliescom.
Extraordinaryfirefliescom.
Once you hit the website, itcan connect you to every
different social media site.
But there's also a freedownload that's called Flying
Lessons for Fireflies and thereare five exercises you can start
(31:55):
doing right now to startbuilding up confidence, so that
you know that you are worthy,you are deserving, you are
enough exactly as you are todayand you can start shining a
light brighter.
And as an extra benefit to that, it puts you on a mailing list
where just once a week you get asmall note of encouragement,
inspiration and then when I getthose notes back that say that
(32:19):
really helped me this week, thatbecomes my encouragement and my
inspiration, and I'm personallygoing to sign up for her
newsletter, you guys, so youshould too, and she's like me.
Fatima Bey (32:30):
She's not interested in spamming you to death Once a
week.
Something that I can actuallyread I'll sign up for, not the
spam, I don't believe in thateither.
So I love that you do that andI really thank you for coming on
.
I hope that our audience wasable to get at least a morsel of
something out of everythingthat we said today, but I do
(32:51):
encourage you all to followJulie and read her book.
She's got a lot more to say and, again, we only touched on a
tiny part of it today.
And once again, thank you,julie, thank you so much.
Julie Wignall (33:02):
This has been wonderful being here.
Fatima Bey (33:06):
And now for a mind shifting moment, I want to go
back to something that Juliesaid during this episode, and
I'm rephrasing this.
But she said that our greatestinsight into ourselves are when
we're younger.
And I'm rephrasing this, butshe said that our greatest
insight into ourselves are whenwe're younger, and if you're
listening, I don't care what ageyou currently are.
(33:26):
She was 100% right about that,and here's the thought seed I
want to plant in you today.
What dreams and visions orinsight did you have that you
have now shut up and shut downbecause of societal expectation,
because you've assimilated tobe accepted?
(33:49):
What beauty have you buriedinside you?
What light are you not shining?
Because society has taught youout of them.
Every single one of you iscarrying a light that you're not
shining.
I want you to consider, I wantyou to remember what that light
(34:11):
is.
You've been listening toMindShift Power Podcast for
complete show notes on thisepisode and to join our global
movement.
Find us at fatimabaycom untilnext time.
Always remember there's powerin shifting your thinking.
This is MindShift Power Podcast, the number one
critically acclaimed podcastwhere we have raw, unfiltered
conversations that shapetomorrow.
I'm your host, Fatima Bey, theMindShifter, and welcome
everyone.
Today we have with us JulieWagnall, and she is the author
(00:29):
of the Extraordinary Power ofFireflies how to Shine your
Light Brighter and Transform theWorld.
How are you doing today, Julie?
I'm doing.
Great.
Thanks for having me and thankyou for coming on.
I was really looking forward tomeeting you and having this
conversation, so I like to diveright into the conversation.
So let me start off by askingyou this why are you on this
(00:51):
podcast and why should we listento you?
Julie Wignall (00:55):
I love your question.
I believe that the world isgoing through a major shift
right now and that there's a lotthat's out there.
A lot of people are scared thatwe've got crazy things
happening politically, not justhere in the United States, but
all over the world.
We're dealing with climatechange, we're dealing with AI,
(01:16):
we're dealing with an overloadof information, and I believe
that a lot of people are scared,and I'm here to say we need to
stop being afraid.
It's time to learn to shine ourlights brighter and it's time
to stop complaining about what'shappening and start thinking
about the world we want tocreate the world that we want to
(01:37):
live in, because we get to bearchitects of our own future of
our own future.
Fatima Bey (01:51):
That is wonderful.
So you have a your book.
The Extraordinary Power ofFireflies is pretty.
It's pretty power packed.
So we're going to talk aboutthat, but we're going to micro
focus on some parts of the bookbecause I think that our
audience can really gain a lotfrom it.
So, julie, your book isn't justabout shining your light.
You talk about how a fireflycan be a hero to some and a
(02:12):
villain to others.
Why is it so important toinclude that tough reality?
And what did you see in yourown life that taught you that
shining your light can get youin trouble?
Julie Wignall (02:23):
I think that we all grow up with a culture,
family, society that tells usthis is what it means to be a
good person, and a lot of timeswhat we are enculturated with,
what it means to be a goodperson is really to like things
that we don't like.
You know, somebody would say,oh, we're having fish for dinner
(02:43):
.
I don't like fish.
Of course you do.
It makes your Aunt Nellie sohappy coming to eat the fish.
We do things.
We forget what we like and whatwe don't like because we're so
busy trying to be good.
We have this concept of that'swhat good kids do and we need to
reevaluate that.
(03:05):
To say, wait a minute, maybe.
Being good means beingauthentic, being honest and
being open and, you know, havinga code of values that maybe
don't fit in someone else's.
Being true to yourself.
If being true to yourselfbecause you are following a
(03:28):
different path or following thetune of a different drum beat,
that doesn't mean that you'renot good.
You know it's like let's kindof redefine this and that, no
matter what we do, when we stepup and we shine our lights
bright and we're authentic andwe're being true to ourselves,
(03:49):
to me that really is the meaning, the true meaning, of being
good, and there will always bepeople who will embrace what we
do, but we are always going totick a lot of people off who are
going to find it offensive.
How dare you and it can be assimple as saying I want to grow
up and be an find it offensive.
How dare you?
And it can be as simple assaying I want to grow up and be
an artist.
Well, how dare you?
(04:09):
You're going to be a starvingartist and you know we're going
to tell you everything that'sgoing to be wrong.
You're terrible.
We don't want anything to.
You know genders and you know.
However you see yourself,there's always going to be
someone who tells you that whatyou do is terrible.
As nice as you can be, I amcoming to you from Las Vegas,
(04:33):
nevada, where I believe stronglyin the importance of taking
care of animals that migratethrough here.
Now, you would think that thisis the simplest thing.
I should be a hero.
I make sure that there'sdrought-tolerant grass, because
we live in the desert and we areon the Great Pacific Flyway.
(04:55):
We have got tens of thousandsof birds who need places to rest
and to feed before theycontinue on.
Well, that certainly soundslike I'm wonderful to feed
before they continue on.
Well, that certainly soundslike I'm wonderful.
I have huge groups of people whothink that I am just the enemy
of everybody and everything,because I'm wasting water,
(05:17):
feeding the grass and providingthese shaded areas.
This is the desert and I shouldjust let it be 115 degrees and
let the birds just die.
So to one group, oh, I'mwonderful for being
environmentally aware, helpingto cool down our heat island
effect.
To another group, I am what Ihave been called selfish,
(05:42):
entitled water waster, becausewho really cares about birds or
the outside environment?
We're beginning to live in asociety where everything is
indoors anyway and there arethings like bugs outside.
Why would you want to be there?
So I'm the enemy.
So if something as simple asthat that you think, well, this
(06:04):
must be really clear that thisis a good thing, no matter what
it is.
Someone's going to see it asgreat and someone's going to see
it as horrible, so as long asthat's the reality, you might as
well choose to live a life thatis as authentic to yourself as
(06:24):
you can and be happy.
I am of the belief system thatwe are here to be happy and I
choose happiness, and part ofthat is knowing what that is,
and for most of us it's living alife that's authentic and true
to ourselves.
Fatima Bey (06:42):
What would you say would be another word for
authentic?
Julie Wignall (06:49):
to ourselves.
What would you say would beanother word for authentic?
Diving deep, I'm going to tellyou.
To me, it's awareness.
Being authentic is being awareof who you are, what you need
when you need quiet time.
I just need time alone.
Yes, you're my friend and Iwant to spend time with you and
go to see a movie or go shoppingor something, but I just really
need me time being aware, andwe're not aware of a lot of that
(07:10):
.
I have this theory that when weare very young, we begin to
forget what makes us happy.
When I work with clients,whether it's corporate or
individual, of any age, one ofthe first things I start with is
what makes you happy, and letme tell you where that came from
.
Many years ago, I worked in aproject with kids who were
(07:33):
considered at risk in Utah, in aplace where wide, wide open
space, and these were kids whowere sent from all over the
United States by parents whosaid, oh, they can't make it,
we're just we're going to shipthem off and let someone else
deal with them and it'd be theirproblem.
And I got to do anenvironmental education program
(07:55):
with them.
These were 15 year old boys andincredibly smart, very creative
, very innovative, but also theyall carried a chip on their
shoulder and they had a lot ofanger.
And after the second day ofworking with them, I stopped and
I said you know what, if I wereyour fairy godmother?
And I said I'm here to makeevery dream and wish of yours
(08:17):
come true, whatever it is, thatwould make you happy?
What would make you happy,happy?
What would make you happy?
And I faced a room of blankstairs and I thought well, this
didn't land.
And finally one of the boysspoke up and he said you know
what?
I'm 15 years old and no one hasever asked me what makes me
(08:39):
happy.
I've been told since I'm a kid.
You know this makes you happy.
That makes you happy.
I liked the color pink when Iwas little and, kid, you know,
this makes you happy.
That makes you happy.
I liked the color pink when Iwas little and you know, someone
said to me no, boys, don't likepink, you have to like blue and
you have to like green andthat's going to make you happy.
And we feed into this becausewhen we are good people, nice
(09:03):
people, we want to make otherpeople happy.
So we put our own happiness tothe side, and what I'm hearing
is that we forget it.
Fatima Bey (09:14):
Yeah Well, we forget it because people are like oh
no, put a cover over that light.
Yes, it's too bright, put acover over it, mm-hmm.
Now I'm going to ask you thisbecause that leads into the next
question I wanted to ask you.
A lot of young people arescared to speak up because they
don't want to be called atroublemaker or a bully or
figure out a name.
(09:34):
How does a teenager find thecourage to be the hero, even
when their friends, families,teachers or anyone else around
them is telling them to shut upand be quiet?
Julie Wignall (09:45):
One of the first lessons that I teach is to look
around you very closely and knowwhere you're getting support
and where you're not gettingsupport.
And a lot of times you can't cutyourself off.
You're a teenager, you havefamily.
You can't cut yourself off.
But if you are not surroundedby any kind of encouragement or
(10:05):
support, it's time to grow yourcircle bigger, and one of the
things I work with are a numberof different groups, and these
are just free-form groups and Iam learning that they are in
every community.
You just have to put yourselfout there, Follow what it is
that you like, and I believethat every group that really
(10:26):
wants to be effective and youwant to feel good about things.
We need four generationsinvolved.
It can't just be one, becausefrom a younger generation you
need the support from someonewho's in an older generation,
who goes baby I've been fightingthis fight and here's the ins
and outs but people who treateach other with respect and
(10:48):
awareness and are welcoming,providing a safe space and
provide encouragement andsupport to continue, because
what you find is, as a teenager,you find that you need to step
up and, a lot of times, supportpeople who are older than you to
give them the courage to keepgoing.
You don't think that you havethat kind of power as a teenager
(11:11):
.
When you start dealing on thatauthentic level.
You realize every single one ofus needs to be encouraged.
Every single one of us needs toknow that it's okay, we're on
the right path.
We all have tough weeks andtough days, but that's why we're
there for each other.
Fatima Bey (11:31):
I think you just took all of that from inside my
brain.
Stop stealing my thoughts.
I agree with every single thingyou just said, and in fact it's
stuff that I'm constantly Ifind myself preaching and
teaching.
But I love what you said justnow about four generations,
because that is a perspectiveyou don't hear from everyone.
I agree with you, but it's aperspective that you just don't
(11:54):
hear.
It's a mind shift and so it'sperfect for it is a mind shift.
Julie Wignall (11:58):
And let's think about this for a minute.
You have anyone up to the ageof 10, 12, there's going to be a
lot of hey, I'm bored.
When is it time to play?
We're very play focused, butthen we become teenagers and
things become very serious andwe forget the importance of play
, because that's super important.
(12:18):
But then I also tell teenagerspay attention, if you listen to,
I don't care if it's a musician, if it's a playwright, if it's
a poet, if it's whatever.
Most people as adults will tellyou that they got their best
ideas when they were 13, 14, 15years old, that they came from.
(12:41):
Yes, yes yes yes, a period oftime there that is so magical.
I tell everybody, keep ajournal, write stuff down.
There's a time that's magicaland I think it's because the way
that our culture and societyworks, there's this time period
where we're bored.
And when you're bored andyou're laying there in your room
or on the grass watching cloudsgo by, or whatever you're doing
(13:04):
, you're allowing yourself tothink and to get in touch with
that inner, authentic self,becoming aware of that of you,
and that's where amazing ideascome out, unbelievable
creativity.
But then what happens afterteenagers?
You go into your 20s, your 30s.
People are trying to climb acareer ladder, they're looking
(13:26):
at relationships, they'redealing with family situations
and they don't have time tothink.
They don't have time for any ofthat that was a luxury of when
you were a teenager.
They need to be reminded ofthis.
So by the time you get to the20s, the 30s, the 40s, you need
your teenagers to remind you ofdeep thoughts and becoming super
(13:49):
aware of ourselves.
But you also need the10-year-old to remind you hello,
it's time to play.
And when you keep moving up theladder, you start dealing with
people in their late 70s and 80sand they start remembering the
importance of play all overagain, because they go this goes
so fast.
I feel like I was just 10 yearsold a few weeks ago.
(14:09):
I need to play and it's time tostand up, and you don't want to
wait until you're in your 80sto shine your light and to do
all the things that you want todo.
You want to start doing it now,and it's not easy to do when
you're a teenager, which is whyyou want that whole round robin
support system.
Fatima Bey (14:29):
I absolutely love the way you put that and the way
you're framing that isabsolutely beautiful.
I want to go back to somethingyou said a moment ago and
talking to the audience.
What Julie just said just nowis absolutely true.
Some of your best ideas thatyou're going to remember later
on in life are happening rightnow, or maybe happened when you
were 10, 12, or 13 years old.
(14:51):
You are not stupid, dumb orweird for your thoughts.
You need to bring them out anddo something with them.
Don't ever think that yourideas are crazy.
Maybe your ideas are justbefore the times and maybe the
people around you don't get yourideas, but your ideas aren't
crazy.
You might just need to get withan adult to figure out how to
(15:12):
do those ideas, but I havediscovered that none of you have
really crazy ideas.
They're good ideas, but theyget buried under conformity and
they get buried under trying tobe like everyone else.
So take that advice from Julieand discover who you are.
Become aware of who you are,because who you are is always
(15:35):
there.
Just become aware of it andstart acting on it.
I love your stance on that, andso I'm going to ask you this
about something that you say inyour book?
You say advocacy beforeactivism.
What does that actually meanand how does it help a young
person to create real changewithout starting a fight or
(15:57):
burning other bridges?
Julie Wignall (16:00):
You want.
When I talk advocacy beforeactivism, it means learning to
listen and finding out what's atthe root of why something's not
working, not just to say it'snot working and this is the way
it need to do.
So I'm going to stand upagainst it and let me let me
(16:20):
give you an example here andthis happened from a lot of
adults that this is a projectthat I followed from the time I
was a teenager into adulthood.
I thought was so clever.
Now imagine this In a lot ofcommunities in different
countries in Africa, one of thebiggest problems that women and
(16:41):
girls have is they spend themajority of their days walking
to go get water.
We don't think about this.
We turn on a tap.
These guys spend their entireday walking to get the water,
walking back to the village tobring it back.
So when did they get the chanceto follow their dreams, to do
(17:02):
what they want to do?
So there was an engineer whocame up with what I thought was
an absolutely brilliant idea,and he called it play pumps.
You can actually look this upand research it and you know
those little merry-go-roundthings that we all played on
when we were kids in theplayground, and they go around
and around and around.
He designed one of those forkids to play on it, but what it
(17:23):
was also doing was pumping upwater which would free the women
and the girls of any village upso that they didn't have to do
this.
It sounded like a brilliantidea.
Well, I wasn't the only one whothought it was a brilliant idea
.
If you go down some of the topleaders in the world and these
people who were parts of bigorganizations, they also thought
(17:44):
that these were great ideas.
Everybody invested in it andthey started to put it in
different communities indifferent countries in Africa
Well, the countries that theywere working in.
There was a major problem here.
They forgot to be advocates.
They forgot to go into thecountry and say we're not, you
(18:05):
know, instead of saying, well,we're here from the West and
we're here to solve all yourproblems.
Tell us how you see yourproblems, let us hear from you
and tell us the best way that wecan help at them.
You know, we have this Americanway too often of saying, oh,
(18:25):
we're going to go into thiscountry and tell everybody what
to do and how to do it.
We're not asking.
We need to go in, we need toask, and they didn't do that.
So they all picked places wherethese play pumps were going to
go in.
We need to ask, and they didn'tdo that.
So they all picked places wherethese play pumps were going to
go and nobody used them.
They didn't.
You know, they were dealing incultures where it was very
important to give respect to theelders, and it would have been
(18:49):
the elders who would have chosenthe right spot.
They never did that, and thateven happens here in the United
States.
Through my work, I had the goodfortune to be adopted into a
Pueblo, a Native American Puebloin New Mexico.
There was.
(19:18):
I was actually doing a filmingproject and made it very clear
I'm not here just to tell youyour story.
This is your story.
You're here to tell me what todo, I'm here to learn and I'm
here to listen, and that's aconcept of being an advocate
when things aren't alwaysworking the way that we want.
We have to do the research tofind out why Mm-hmm, and we have
to listen.
Fatima Bey (19:35):
Absolutely.
I love that Listen first, andthat's a lesson for everybody.
If you really want to getsomething done, you've got to
listen first, because you can'tsolve a problem you don't
understand.
Julie Wignall (19:46):
Yes, and I'll tell you one more thing.
I actually wrote this story inmy book, one of my famous
stories.
I was the director of theNational Aquarium in Washington
DC and I created I have thenotoriety of having created the
very first education program forkids who are visually impaired,
(20:06):
and that sounds wonderful.
So how did I do it?
I thought this is somethingthat hasn't been done.
It should be done.
I spent nine months researchingthis and I spent time talking to
PhDs.
I was working with theSmithsonian Institution and
everybody that knew anything andhad a very big, important name
(20:26):
dealing with people who areblind, people who are visually
impaired.
And I created the program justlike they told me to.
And I had the day of doing mypilot.
And when I tell you, it was oneof the biggest failures that I
have ever encountered.
Everything I had been taughtand told did not work with the
group that came in.
(20:47):
It was a mess.
15 minutes into the program Istopped everything and I
apologized to the kids that wehad there and I said I made a
mistake.
I was an activist before I wasan advocate.
I forgot to go to the mostimportant group there.
Who was I trying to reach.
(21:07):
I was trying to develop aprogram for visually impaired
kids.
I'm talking to scientists andPhDs and psychologists.
I forgot to go to the kids tosay you're who, I'm talking to
scientists and PhDs andpsychologists.
I forgot to go to the kids tosay you're who I'm trying to
reach.
I need listening to you.
You tell me what's going towork and what's not going to
work.
So I invited them to helpcreate the program with me,
(21:28):
which they did, and the wholeprogram ended up being based on
their input.
Fatima Bey (21:34):
And that's how you get something to function.
All of you who are listeningout there trying to create
programs that aren't working,maybe you're not listening.
First, I always say this kindof goes with what I always say
reach people where they are.
Stop throwing the ball to theleft when the people are on the
right, and very often we're like, well, everybody should be on
the left, so I'm going to throwthe ball to the left, but you
(21:56):
didn't take the time to find outwhere they are, and I mean
where they are mentally, wherethey are financially, where they
are emotionally, where are they?
And that's how you reach people.
Julie Wignall (22:05):
And sometimes by listening, you find out you
think that they should be on theright.
They're on the left and youfind out there's a really good
reason.
They're on the left, are on theleft, and you find out there's
a really good reason.
Fatima Bey (22:16):
they're on the left, and that's a good place to be
that you never even thoughtabout.
Yeah, got to listen first.
Yeah, absolutely love that.
So let's talk to the youngleaders.
So let's say you're a youngleader, you're trying to do the
right thing and everyone iscalling you the bad guy.
How do you find strength tobelieve in yourself and your own
perspective when the world istelling you that you're the
villain?
Julie Wignall (22:37):
Well, the world is always going to tell you that
you're the villain.
I find it the importance ofyou've got to start with.
What is it that you're tryingto do, what gives your life
meaning or purpose, or whyyou're in the position the first
place?
Because this is important toyou and you got to know why it's
important to you.
And then you have to know yourcode of values.
(23:00):
You have to know what you standfor, and this becomes really
important when you're younger,because if you are trying to
become an activist or trying tolead a group or to set something
new and different, your code ofvalues is going to determine
the choices you make.
(23:20):
When you say I have a code ofvalues, that means it has to
have integrity and it's going tosupport kindness.
But all of a sudden, here's acompany that says I'm going to
back you, I like what you'redoing, and they're like the
biggest bullies in the community.
There should be no question.
(23:43):
If you know your code of values, you go.
I'm not aligned with thesepeople.
And you have to focus on whatyour values are and what you are
aligned with, so that you atleast feel comfortable knowing
that there's a reason why you'restanding up, there's a reason
(24:04):
why you may be getting a lot ofpushback, but again, when you do
that, there are people who needto hear what you have to say
yes, yes, there are people whowill help you to come up to the
next level, and that's part ofthat multi-generational.
But when you're a teenager,this is really hard to remember,
(24:28):
which is why I think it's soimportant to have the support
and encouragement for that.
When you're taking a stand onsomething or you're trying to
accomplish something new, youthink that it's great.
Other people think that you'rethe villain.
You don't really understand why, but people take you down and
all of a sudden you get thathate on social media and I never
(24:50):
understood that until I hadsome directed at me and it was
like oh my gosh, boy, did thatbring me down?
I can only imagine how I wouldhave felt when I was 13, 14, 17.
But it's knowing what you'rebelieving in and knowing that,
inside, the most important thingto realize is that when you
(25:13):
shine your light brighter,you're giving permission for
someone else to step out on thepath with you, someone who might
have been standing on thesidelines with the same wishes
and dreams and hopes without thecourage that you have, and
courage is not innate.
Courage is not something thatwe're all born with.
(25:33):
I would love to think so, andmaybe for some people it is, but
for most of us courage issomething that we have to
cultivate and work on.
It's like exercise that we haveto work on every day to be able
to stand up.
But once you're doing it,you're sending a message to a
lot of other people saying ifthey can do it, I can come and
step out in the light too.
Fatima Bey (25:56):
What I'm extracting from what you just said is find
some alignment.
Find your tribe, find thepeople that will actually
support you, because there'salways going to be people that
call you the villain for makingthem uncomfortable because you
want to do something new anddifferent.
Anytime we stand up, I don'tcare who you are or how old you
are.
Anytime we stand up.
But especially if you're youthand you're being told to shut up
and sit down because you'reonly 16, what the hell do you
(26:18):
know?
That's when you need to shut upand sit down because you're
only 16, what the hell do youknow?
That's when you need to standup and show the other
16-year-olds that you're worthsomething and they can too.
And that's also when you takethat stand and you make the
decision to stand strong,despite how you feel.
You make that decision, you'realso showing the adults I'm not
just a stupid little kid,because some adults do think
(26:39):
that way.
Unfortunately they do.
Julie Wignall (26:41):
And if you keep looking, you will find adults
who want to hear what you haveto say and, yes, value, and it's
not just, oh, I want to hearwhat you have to say.
Who really value what you haveto say.
There's a lot.
There's a lot that I learn andI know that there's a lot that a
(27:01):
lot of other people know.
You know, being older, I grewup at a time where I was just
told, as a female, to acceptcertain things.
Oh, I want to talk to a sevenyear old today.
They'd say, why would yousettle for that?
Why would you?
And it's like I need that wakeup call and that's where we all
work together.
(27:21):
So, and it's it's the light inme sees the light in you, and
it's having that mutual respectto know that we all bring
something very, very special tothe table and everybody is worth
listening to.
And I'll tell you, even whenyou find your quote-unquote
(27:43):
tribe and a group that's there,you're still going to intimidate
people because ego still getsin the way.
And I had a wonderful person whogave me this advice and I'm
going to share it with everybodywho's listening, because I was
recently in this situation at aconference with people who are
all looking to change the worldand doing wonderful things and
(28:05):
things that were unconventional.
And I had someone say to me butJulie, your light is so bright,
you have so much energy.
You need to bring it back inand condense that a little bit.
That's just too much.
And I had someone who hadadvised me on this a long time
before and they said you knowwhat, walk around with extra
(28:26):
pairs of sunglasses and you handthem out.
Fatima Bey (28:29):
I love that.
I may steal that myself, andyou are welcome to.
Oh, much to brag for you, honey.
Here, put these glasses on.
That's exactly right.
There you go.
Julie Wignall (28:40):
Yeah, you.
Just you put your shades on,because I'm not dimming my light
for anything, and I say this toevery young person who is
listening to this young adult,teenager, identify any way that
you want.
I'm going to repeat this again.
The world is changing right nowand it's changing very quickly,
(29:03):
and one of the reasons why weare in the mess that we're in
whether you're looking at theenvironment or politics or one
thing or other is you get to theroot.
I think it was Desmond Tutu whoonce said you got to get to the
point where, instead of justpulling people out of the river,
you got to find out why they'rejumping in in the first place.
That's a really good quote.
(29:24):
How did we get here?
We got here because our systemsare broken and they don't work.
Yep, our education system, ourhealth care system.
You know all the crazy thingsthat when you're a teenager,
this is ridiculous.
Why do you have to do this?
You're right, this isridiculous and it's because
(29:44):
these systems are broken andthey don't work anymore and it's
time not to fight.
I have a great friend who saysit's not revolution, it's
resolution.
Become resolute and know andget a vision of what it should
look like, and that's what youwork for and that's what you
(30:06):
fight towards, because the wayit's working today doesn't work.
But unless you stand up andshine that light, now is no
longer the time to sit on thesidelines with your hopes and
your dreams and your wishes.
It's time to take all thosethings and take action, and at
any age you can do that as Iasked all my guests, but you
(30:44):
just did so.
Fatima Bey (30:44):
Now I'm going to ask you how can people find you?
Before you answer that, yourbook, the Extraordinary Power of
Fireflies, uses fireflies as ananalogy for many deep
principles of life, and what Ilike about your book is that you
know it looks like another bookabout finding yourself and
being joyful, but you actuallydive a little deeper than the
(31:05):
average what I callfluffernutter book.
It's just full of whipped cream, ain't got nothing substance to
really say and says all thesame things that everybody else
says.
But you actually do dive alittle bit deeper.
In the fact that you don't justtalk about all the nice fluffy
stuff.
You really take a deeper dive.
We've only touched on a pinheadworth of the stuff that's in
(31:26):
your book.
So tell people how can theyfind you and how can they find
your book.
Julie Wignall (31:32):
All you have to remember is
wwwextraordinaryfirefliescom.
Extraordinaryfirefliescom.
Once you hit the website, itcan connect you to every
different social media site.
But there's also a freedownload that's called Flying
Lessons for Fireflies and thereare five exercises you can start
(31:55):
doing right now to startbuilding up confidence, so that
you know that you are worthy,you are deserving, you are
enough exactly as you are todayand you can start shining a
light brighter.
And as an extra benefit to that, it puts you on a mailing list
where just once a week you get asmall note of encouragement,
inspiration and then when I getthose notes back that say that
(32:19):
really helped me this week, thatbecomes my encouragement and my
inspiration, and I'm personallygoing to sign up for her
newsletter, you guys, so youshould too, and she's like me.
Fatima Bey (32:30):
She's not interested in spamming you to death Once a
week.
Something that I can actuallyread I'll sign up for, not the
spam, I don't believe in thateither.
So I love that you do that andI really thank you for coming on
.
I hope that our audience wasable to get at least a morsel of
something out of everythingthat we said today, but I do
(32:51):
encourage you all to followJulie and read her book.
She's got a lot more to say and, again, we only touched on a
tiny part of it today.
And once again, thank you,julie, thank you so much.
Julie Wignall (33:02):
This has been wonderful being here.
Fatima Bey (33:06):
And now for a mind shifting moment, I want to go
back to something that Juliesaid during this episode, and
I'm rephrasing this.
But she said that our greatestinsight into ourselves are when
we're younger.
And I'm rephrasing this, butshe said that our greatest
insight into ourselves are whenwe're younger, and if you're
listening, I don't care what ageyou currently are.
(33:26):
She was 100% right about that,and here's the thought seed I
want to plant in you today.
What dreams and visions orinsight did you have that you
have now shut up and shut downbecause of societal expectation,
because you've assimilated tobe accepted?
(33:49):
What beauty have you buriedinside you?
What light are you not shining?
Because society has taught youout of them.
Every single one of you iscarrying a light that you're not
shining.
I want you to consider, I wantyou to remember what that light
(34:11):
is.
You've been listening toMindShift Power Podcast for
complete show notes on thisepisode and to join our global
movement.
Find us at fatimabaycom untilnext time.
Always remember there's powerin shifting your thinking.
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