Trained for Incest

Episode Transcript
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Fatima Bey (00:02):
Mind Shift Power Podcast This is Mind Shift
Power Podcast, the number onecritically acclaimed podcast
where we have raw, unfilteredconversations that shape
tomorrow.
I'm your host, Fatima Bey, theMind Shifter.
And welcome everyone.
Today we have with us AzizaKabibi.

(00:25):
She is out of New Jersey in theU.S.
She is an author and anactivist.
But you're gonna find out todayshe's so much more.
The word activist doesn't evencut it.
But uh we're gonna talk abouther story and how it can help
you.
How are you doing today, Aziza?

Aziza Kibibi (00:44):
I'm doing well, Fatima.
Thank you for having me.

Fatima Bey (00:47):
And thank you for coming on.
Now, I reached out to youbecause I saw you somewhere, I
don't know where, but somewhereon social media, and you I found
your story very intriguing.
So tell the audience, why areyou on this podcast?

Well, I am here on this podcast to share my story.
And I think mostly not just mystory and my life and the things
that I've survived, but reallytalk about my resilience and my
ability to survive them in hopesto encourage other people.
Um, my life has been extremelychallenging.

(01:26):
My father started molesting mewhen I was eight years old, and
he started raping me when I was10.
And over the years, as theabuse continued, I have been
pregnant by him five differenttimes.
I suffered a miscarriage due tohis physical abuse.

(01:46):
He was also abusing my mother,and he delivered all of my
children at home.
So I have four children by myfather.
I was homeschooled.
So I did not have, I could I Idid not have the, I guess you
can say, resources or exposureto gaze, to gauge what was

(02:10):
happening to me and if it wascorrect or right because my
father dictated everything.
So he was not only abusive tome and my mom, he was also
abusive to my siblings.
And over the years, he had 21siblings that include my
children, who are also hisgrandchildren.

Fatima Bey (02:31):
And that is a lot.
And here's the thing that mostof the audience probably doesn't
realize.
We're gonna hear bits andpieces of Aziza's story today.
We're only gonna be able tohear bits and pieces.
Um you're really gonna have tofollow her to hear more, but
Aziza is not the only woman inthe world that has a similar

(02:53):
story.
And the incest withmanipulation and all kinds of
abuse, unfortunately, is waymore common than we think.
We're taught this image of whatfamilies are supposed to be,
but reality is often different.
So, Ziza, let me um ask youthis abuse manipulates the mind

(03:16):
long before it breaks the body.
So, looking back, can you shareone way your father rewired
your thinking and the exactmoment when you realized that
your programming was a lie?

So it's interesting because it with that
question, it's not that herewired the thinking, my
thinking.
He wired my thinking.
So there was nothing to rewire.
He was my father, and I wasraised to follow him, to be
obedient, to employ all of histeachings.

(03:52):
And the fact that I washomeschooled, I think,
contributed to that.
Since I was not educated in thetraditional school, then all of
my knowledge and perspectiveand belief system and
philosophies all came from himand he was the only source of
that.

(04:12):
Then, of course, because mymother was compliant and did
everything that he said as well,she reiterated everything.
So when my my mom found out myfather was abusing me when she
um when he told her, he told herthat he was abusing me.

(04:35):
And he told her that he wasmolesting me because it was
helping my skin.
My father also did not believein Western medicine, so I didn't
go to doctors.
Um, and he treated all ailmentswithin the family.
He also delivered my brothersand sisters.
So I was witnessing the birthof children from a very young

(04:55):
age.
So, you know, this wholeholistic style lifestyle that
was also a vegetarian lifestyle.
All of these things that myfather believed in, he
indoctrinated not only into hiswife and his other women, he was
also polygamous, but um alsohis children.
So trying to determine what isright, what is wrong, what is

(05:22):
real, and what is an illusiontook a long time because my
father's programming was fromhis perspective only.
And then having my motherco-sign everything, the world
was wrong and they were right.
So I did not realize what washappening to me was wrong, aside

(05:46):
from my own judgment of thepain and suffering I was
experiencing.
But even then, my dad was alsoGod-fearing.
So his idea was that, well, tobenefit in life, you have to
sacrifice in life.
And there were other thingsthat I didn't like, especially
as a child.
No child likes to sit there andwrite affirmations for an hour.

(06:08):
So there were a lot of thingsthat I was just questioning,
just from a child's perspective,that essentially was
considerably more serious andcounter, or should I say,
anti-what the rest of the worldbelieved and practiced.
So it did take a while.
I tried to run away when I was12, but again, that was because

(06:31):
I was in pain.
My father started sodomizing meas a form of punishment for not
doing my chores or fordisobeying him.
So there was just the physicalsuffering and the abuse.
I didn't know it was abuse atthe time, but I did not want to
suffer at the hands of myfather.
So I did attempt to run away.
But then my brothers andsisters saw me, stopped me.

(06:55):
And in that moment, I realizedI can't leave them here with him
by themselves.
Clearly, mommy is not helping,and the only person that I felt
that would protect them was me.
So it got to a point that myfather told me that if I
complied, I didn't complain, andI did not tell anybody, then he

(07:18):
would not abuse my sisters.
So it then became conditional.
He would not abuse my sistersif I was obedient to him.
So yeah, it didn't cut get tothe point that I would say I was
consciously aware, like thisjust, this just has to stop.
This has to stop.
The whole philosophy of what hewas, how he was treating his

(07:43):
family, how he was raising hisfamily.
It had to stop.
And I came to that conclusionwhen I had my first my first
child by him.
Then in my mind, I wasconstantly strategizing ways to
get away.

Fatima Bey (08:00):
Now I know that you you did a good job of
summarizing a lot of what you'vebeen through, but there's it's
there's so much packed in there.
You've turned your pain intoplatforms that that has helped
others, which by the way, Ireally highly respect you for
that because I know that's hard.
Um, but I want to flip it for asecond.

(08:21):
What are the private costs ofbeing a public survivor?
What parts of Aziza, the woman,sometimes gets overshadowed by
Aziza, the symbol?

Um, that that's a deep question.
Because there is a lot.
And it's interesting that youask me now, my birthday is
coming up.
And of course, once we completea turn around the sun, we tend
to self-reflect.
And um, one of the the biggestsacrifices I've have made by

(08:55):
being public, um, something thatI did not consider when I just
decided to kind of take up thistorch is that my romantic
relationships are greatlyaffected.
My my ability to, well, I can'tcall it my ability, but the way

(09:16):
men respond to me, I think isis hugely affected.
And not just because I amshouting to the world that I am
a survivor of sexual abuse, butI think the audacity of me doing
that can be a littleintimidating.
So, you know, so I amexperiencing that.

(09:36):
It's more as I get older.
Um, it has affected other kindof social and professional
relationships that I have.
I'm getting more feedback aboutthat lately.
Um, so it's interesting thatyou asked me that today because
I was just thinking about thatthis morning.
Like, wow, you know, something,some possible romantic interest

(10:01):
kind of seemed to fall by thewayside or fell through.
And I truly believe that it isbecause not only they did they
discover what I went through,but what it has made me and the
strength that it's given me andthe resilience that it
demonstrates with the fact thatI am public about it.

(10:24):
And I have taken up the missionto try to prevent it from
happening to others.
And I think that audacity aloneis a little intimidating.
So that's one thing.
And I'll just briefly say theother things, of course, how it
affects my children.
They are extremely supportivewith the fact that I am public,

(10:45):
but it is a constantconversation.
I have to check in with themregularly just to make sure my
daughter has kind of taken upthe torch of being my defender
online when people are justbeing ask complete assholes.
So I didn't consider that theywould have to be soldiers, so to

(11:08):
speak, along with me.
Um, yes, they've graciouslyaccepted it, but you know, that
is something that's a constantconversation in our family.
And and just the fact that Ihave to prepare, even when I
speak to you here, I have tomentally and emotionally prepare
to have this conversationbecause I go back to little

(11:29):
Aziza.
I go back to being a littleAziza in order to communicate as
effectively how what happenedto me has impacted me and my
life and the little girl that Iwas.
So then after that, I have todecompress.
I have to, you know, meditateand possibly take a long bath.
It would be nice to have anorgasm, but that's not always

(11:52):
that convenient.
But, you know, those kinds I dohave to actually take steps to
prepare before and then todecompress afterwards.
And I I don't think a lot ofpeople know that.

Fatima Bey (12:05):
I I and that's the thing is I wanted to make sure
that people could hear it fromfrom your in your voice.
Um, there's not just you, but alot of people who've been
through whatever serious heavytrauma they've been through.
And when they have to get on astage, in this case it's a
podcast, and talk about it,that's not easy.

(12:27):
I mean, I I just know how hardit was.
I did an episode a few monthsago when I talked about um, you
know, something that wasextremely traumatic in in my
family's life and how I wentfrom Minneapolis to New York and
the story behind it.
And that that was I wassurprised at um how jarring it

(12:49):
was to just talk about itpublicly.
And when you've had your entirelife um formed and your entire
mind formed and in a uh by anabuser, it's it's a whole
different level.
And I think I think peopledon't really get that.
But uh one thing I would dowant to say to you is I

(13:11):
understand as a mother, youdon't want your kids to have to
be your defender.
And you kind of just want themto be kids.
Uh, but it is what it is.
But I will say the one thingthat their kids are learning
from you is watching you.
I don't even know your kids,but I promise they are learning
how to be resilient themselves.

(13:31):
They're gonna be better adultsthan a lot of their peers
because of watching you.
Because you're not hiding, um,like a lot of parents do.
They want to hide and pretendyou're not hiding anything.
You're like, this is what itis, and if I can make it through
it, then maybe someone else cantoo.
Mm-hmm.
Exactly.
And um I I really have a lot ofrespect for you for for doing

(13:52):
that.
Now I want to take a turn andask you this.
Um, this is even a deeperquestion.
Because I know that there's alot of young diseases out there
right now.
If a young woman listeningright now is still living in
silence with her abuser, what isthe first truth she needs to
say to herself before she canever get up and tell the world

(14:15):
like you did?

I think the first thing that she would have to say
to herself is that it's not herfault.
And I know that that is astatement that is often echoed,
especially now as our cultureand our society has become more
aware of the impacts of abuse,we have to keep saying the

(14:40):
mantra, it's not your fault.
And I'm gonna say why, eventhough it's commonly said it is
the first thing.
Because as a victim, as someonewho is experiencing the
consequences of another person'schoice, it is extremely

(15:01):
difficult to get away from theidea that you did something for
that choice to affect you, thatyou did something to draw that
energy to you, that uh maybe yousaid the wrong thing or you
looked too long or you wore thewrong outfit.
Like that is the most that isthe most difficult thing.

(15:23):
And I remember even after mymother found out that my father
was abusing me and she would notleave him, she would not run
away.
There were there was onespecific opportunity um that she
didn't take.
I asked her, well, mommy, ifyou didn't get pregnant with me,

(15:45):
would you not have marrieddaddy?
Because they she got pregnantwith me before they got married.
And she didn't answer thequestion, but I truly felt like
had I not been born, then all ofthese things would not be
happening to me, to her, toanybody else that my father was
abusing.
So yeah, I the that is what themany little diseases need to

(16:11):
understand first and foremost,that it is not their fault, no
matter how much it feels like itis.

Fatima Bey (16:21):
Do you still believe that it's not your fault now?

Oh, I that's not a belief, my dear.
That is knowledge.
I know for a fact.
It is your fault.

Fatima Bey (16:33):
And I wanted to hear you say that.
It's it's not.
And for the young Azizas whoare out there right now going
through your silent suffering, Iwant you to hear from someone
who's been where you are.
It's not your fault.
It's really not your fault.
And that's just the beginning.
So, Aziza, you have taken umwhat advice do you have for

(17:00):
those of us who are around girlslike you were in the world
today?

So much advice, let's see.
So, so much advice.
Where do I start?
Um for those who are aroundgirls, uh other Azizas, and we
cannot forget the boys too.
Um, there are boys out theresuffering, and their experience

(17:28):
is different.
It, yes, it's the same as faras the abusers, but how our
culture approaches the abusiveboys, it is different.
So they're going to responddifferently.
Um, but for all of those peoplethat are around, you have to
listen.
You have to listen.
You have to recognize that thisexperience is so nuanced.

(17:50):
And as common as it is, being avictim of sexual abuse is
really out of the ordinary andreally throws you off of what
your life could have been.
It completely changes yourpath, and managing the impacts

(18:14):
of that type of abuse infectsevery aspect of your world.
And and it completely changesyou.
I mean, there is there thereare science there is scientific
proof that it completelyrewrites your brain, completely
re-rewives your brain.
You can develop differentlyphysically from this type of
trauma.

(18:34):
And I think that people need torecognize that and really
internalize that, that aftersomething like this happens,
this person is completelytransformed.
So, so listening and reallyunderstanding the person who has
been affected, theirperspective, their voice, the

(18:55):
way they think, and just beingmore compassionate to the
healing process.
Um, we we don't need people tojudge us, you know.
You have to also, as someone onthe outside, know that it isn't
their fault as well, just likea survivor has to tell themself
it's not their fault andunderstand that it's not their
fault.

(19:15):
So do people on the outside,because for some reason, this
whole blaming the victimphilosophy is re-traumatizing to
a victim and a survivor.
So if you want to help, youshould want to help.
Not everybody wants to help,but you should want to help.
And even if you are notactively helping, just at the

(19:38):
end of the day, you havejudgmental or cruel thoughts.
Keep them to yourself.
Keep them to yourself, shut up,listen, and learn.

Fatima Bey (19:46):
That's that's a common theme I keep hearing
amongst my guests.
Shut up and listen.
So, Aziza, because I think thatneeds to be said more often,
especially us grown folks whothink we know everything.
We need to shut up and listensometimes, especially when it
comes to our youth.
Um, so you've taken, you'vetaken your turmoil, what you've
been through, and you've turnedit into a platform that helps

(20:09):
others.
So tell us about the servicesand products that you offer.

So we uh uh aside from my wonderful energy, um, I
I started a nonprofit calledPrecious Little Ladies Inc.
And um we are expanding toinclude more services for boys
too.
So we're expanding our brand toPLL nonprofit nonprofit for

(20:35):
precious little ladies andprecious little lads.
And we offer preventativeservices.
We distribute sexual abuseprevention kits to preschools,
uh, rec centers, daycare centersto help educate families on
recognizing the signs of abuse.
It is age appropriate so thatfamilies can have the

(21:00):
conversation on how theirchildren can protect themselves
without it being overwhelming.
Uh, we also offer free therapythrough our partnership with
BetterHelp.
And if you just go to ourwebsite, you'll be able to find
the information on how you cansign up through BetterHelp, you
get through PLL, you get sixmonths of mental health care

(21:23):
through BetterHelp.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
And um, we have an event comingup called the Raising Awareness
Kite Flight.
And I have found, not onlythrough my own experience, but
through a lot of research thatPrecious Little Ladies does,
that survivors, when survivorsare active in their healing

(21:43):
process and active in helpingothers, it does help them along
their healing journey because itsymbolizes taking something
like what I have done, takingsomething devastating, taking
something where your power hasbeen taken away from you, and
then using your power totransform it into something to
helping someone else.

(22:04):
So our awareness raising kiteflight invites the community out
to fly kites symbolically tokind of overcome the turmoil of
a rough wind and rise above yourchallenges.
And also it helps the communityaccess resources.
So we have a lot of communitypartners that deal with

(22:26):
homelessness, mental health, um,food insecurities, childcare
that come out and help thecommunity identify them and know
who they are and how they couldaccess them.
So that's coming up onSeptember 20th.
Um, that's just an overview ofthe services.
We give workshops, I do publicspeaking engagements, I travel

(22:50):
all over.
We do work internationally,virtually, um, and the list just
goes on.
We do a lot of research andtake a lot of surveys because,
as I mentioned before, well, howcan people on the outside help
someone like a little Aziza?
So we get the informationdirectly from survivors and then

(23:14):
use that to not only inform ourprograms, but also share with
our partners and ourstakeholders within the
community so that they canimprove on their services
themselves.

Fatima Bey (23:26):
How can listeners assist you?
Uh money.

That's what helps.
The donate button.
The donate button is on ourwebsite.

Fatima Bey (23:41):
So listen, y'all, go to Prish Precious Little
Ladies, find that donate button.
Because as you just heard, uh,she she just gave you an
overview.
They're doing a lot, like awhole lot.
Um, a whole, whole, whole lot.
And I love, love, love so muchthat you're doing this.
Uh, and really helping otherpeople to to come out because
that is how the healing starts.

(24:02):
It's only the beginning, butit's you gotta start.
And that is so beautiful.
So tell tell people how theycan find you.
What's your websites?

So the web, my website is aziza keybi.com, az I
Z A K I B I B I dot com andpreciouslitteladies.org.
Precious Little Ladies.
I won't I won't spell it out,but preciouslitteladies.org and
all over social media, it's P LL nonprofit.

(24:30):
And all over social media, I'mAziza KBB.
I also wrote a book.

Fatima Bey (24:36):
Well, thank you, Aziza.

I just got that in there.

Fatima Bey (24:39):
Tell them where can I find that?
Well, that's on your website.

Yes, that's on my website, and you can get it on
Amazon as well.

Fatima Bey (24:46):
All right.
Thank you so much, Aziza, forcoming on.
I really, really appreciate youtaking the time to just not
just on this podcast, but allthat you do to advocate for the
little Azizas out there.
Thank you so much.

Thank you, Fatima.
It's been a pleasure.

Fatima Bey (25:05):
You've been listening to My Shift Power
Podcast for complete show noteson this episode.
And to join our globalmovement, find us at
FatimaBay.com.
Until next time, alwaysremember there's power in
shifting your thinking.

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