Veterans and Cannabis - The Challenges Facing Our Heroes - Part 2

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Episode Transcript

(00:01):
From the W A and M Studioon the campus of Florida A and M
University. This is Mariforum Radio,a weekly conversation on the education and research
or medical marijuana being conducted back toBMW HI. I'm Heidi Otway, your
host for this Conversations on Cannabis virtualform, brought to you by the Medical
Marijuana Education and Research Initiative at Floridaand M University. In this conversation,

(00:25):
we're talking about initiatives like an impactveterans who use or want to use cannabis
as medicine. So let's talk andlearn about this subject with our guests.
Doctor Berry Gordon has built a careerworking on the front lines of the American
healthcare system. After years of workingin the emergency rooms up north, he
moved to Florida and started the CompassionateCannabis Clinic to treat patients with chronic illnesses

(00:51):
using cannabis therapy. Doctor Barry isgreat to have you back on the forum.
Listen, it's an honor every time, Heidi, and listen. You
know, everybody knows that the statedollars for their medical cannabis card contains some
all of it, you know,and for this educational initiative, so I
call this the official educational arm youknow of the state's program. Always an

(01:11):
honor. Thank you so much,Thank you so much. And our other
guest is William Davis, who isbased in Louisiana and the president of Euphoria
Eats, where he makes and sellsHEMP infused foods. William is a US
Army veteran who used his passion forcooking and catering to create an alternative way

(01:33):
for people to consume HEMP and CBDthrough food. William, I'm looking forward
to learning more about you and yourexperiences. Welcome to the forum. Thank
you. I'm excited to be here. This has been a big pleasure of
mine. So I'm all ears andI'm ready to give you guys information wonderful
To everyone joining us on this liveprogram, please share posts and tag a

(01:56):
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the comments on YouTube and Facebook.After the live program, your name will

(02:20):
be entered into a drawing on Juneeighth, twenty twenty three to win a
one hundred dollars gift card provided byone of Mary's partners. Now let's start
this conversation on cannabis, doctor Garden. I'm going to start with you.
Tell us what prompting you to startyour medical practice that treats patients in Florida
using the cannabis plant to treat theirqualified conditions. Well, you know,

(02:43):
how do you have an emergency medicinetrained physician? And you know, as
you said, front lines of emergencymedicine for thirty four years all up in
Ohio. The three things I neversaw in an emergency setting wasn't acute problem
from cannabis. A little bit differentthese days with some of the ADI rolls
and cannabis hyperemesis syndrome and things likethat, but in my career was never

(03:04):
a day to day problem. Wenever saw a husband or wife team or
any domestic partner team beat up theirpartner after using cannabis. That tended to
be much more of an alcohol associatedevent. But more importantly, on the
chronic side, we didn't see thechronic problems from cannabis, even though we
knew that people were using it outthere, whereas alcoholic course, on both

(03:25):
an acute and chronic basis, isdaily in every ear. But you know,
just as importantly, and probably mostimportantly, no one has ever died
in anybody's hospital emergency room from cannabis. Nobody ever will. And that's scientific
because of the cannabinoid system not affectingthe respiratory centers of the brain versus alcohol

(03:46):
opiates, benzo days a Panza loanerin combination. And I'll be honest,
the third thing that I never hadin my career, I never lost a
partner or a friend to cannabis.I had lost into drugs, alcohol,
women, gambling, tobacco. Andnow in this day and age, of
course every age, depression and suicide. Gun violence of course now the leading

(04:06):
cause of death in the pediatric population. So you have to look at twenty
twenty three is a very unique eraof both society and medicine. It's not
easy to be a doctor these days, and it's not easy to be a
patient either. So my philosophy nowis that we need every arrow in the

(04:26):
quiver to help our patients in thehealthcare environment of twenty twenty three, and
then includes this uniquely ancient healthcare plantbased alternative and all about the endocannabinoing system
and science behind it. So that'swhy it was really an answer to what
I had seen societally and knowing thatcannabis needed to be much better understood and

(04:50):
integrated both into healthcare and society itself. Yeah, thank you for sharing that
background. William, your army veteranthat now runs a business creating and selling
himp confused foods. So what compto start your company? Well, or
what prop for me is go andstarted a four eats was a dual purpose.

(05:11):
Had a buddy of mine his niecehad MS and a couple of other
issues, and so they were givenher a Rick Simpson oil, which she
hated the taste of it. Andso at the time I was doing a
competition cooking here in Louisiana and thenin South Texas. So I had an
extra a barbecue sauce, and Ijust mixed some up and I said,
hey, let me get the horribletaste out of it, and letters she

(05:33):
likes it or not, so itwas a winner. She loved it actually,
And the other reason why I hadto do this is because I needed
it myself, not knowing that Iwas going to be I did it to
the opioids at from PTSD and acute anxiety I disordered. So it was
a therapeutic means for me to goand wean myself off the opioids as well
as help that every day in individualwho has issues that cannabis can help.

(06:00):
Wow, well, thank you,because William, you spell him there's communists
and infused foods. And then doctorBarry, you're recommending medical cannabis that has
THHC. So I think for ouraudience, can you, doctor Barry,
explain what's the difference between the THHCmedical cannabis and then the hemp so that
we have a good understanding of howthe two of those are different. Yeah,

(06:24):
for sure. First off, William, thank you so much for your
service. And you know, aswe head into Memorial Day this weekend,
I always remind everybody that you knowto wish somebody a happy Memorial Day isn't
really what the veteran wants to hear. The veteran wants to hear the honor
and and and the memory right ofthose they served with those that didn't come

(06:44):
home. Um, the sacrifice thatthat you all made. So you know,
I tend to look at Memorial Daya little bit differently, I think
than others because I've been reminded byyou know, so many veterans how important
it is to remember. So thankyou so much, William for the sacrifices
that you made. And when you'rereferring to and how do you get so
interesting? Because you've had so manyguests on your program, you know,

(07:06):
I want to get you into mypodcast, The Green Room and ask you
about what you've learned, because listen, I don't think you came in as
a Willie Nelson to cannabis yourself.And I know that when you do your
interviews, you learn in each interview, right and for sure, and I
do too, and I've been doingthis for a long time. So it
is a give and take between everybody. But I think one thing that you've

(07:29):
heard out of William, that you'veheard out of many guests is that it's
often a personal experience, right thenleads them into the cannabis space. So
in William's case, as he said, it was helping a friend, okay,
with their problem and also realizing thathe himself could benefit. And just
to get back to your question,he used the term RSO or Rick Simpson

(07:53):
oil and very importantly so to describewhat that is. That is a process
plant based product into an oil.That is what we call and it's a
funny term, the dirtiest of theprocessing. Dirty sounds bad, but in
cannabising, dirty is good. Theleast amount, okay, of all the

(08:16):
plant's compounds have been removed while it'sbeen converted into an oil. Why is
that important? Because it's not justthe THHC or delta nine THHC primarily,
which is the main potent ingredient incannabis and the one that leads to the
mental intoxication from cannabis, always alwayswill, But it's all of the other

(08:41):
cannabinoids, the CBD, the CBN, CBC, CBG. I know,
William Roles speak to the general cannabisworld. They know the THHC aspect of
it, and we're learning now aboutall of the other cannabinoids have a role
to play. That other discussion fromthe plant itself. It's THHC and then

(09:03):
the other cannabinoids. Rick Simpson oilpreserves all of those other minor cannabinoids and
things called terpenes, all those minorchemicals in the plant that we just don't
know yet by research, because weare going to have the chance to do.
The research is opening the door,turning the key helping a lot of

(09:24):
the symptoms. So the Rick Simpsonoils, especially in the cancer world in
MS and Parkinson's, people that wantthat concentrated form of the best of the
plant use that as their product.Yeah. So, speaking of research,
we know that this year Congress wastrying to launch clinical trials for veterans to
use cannabis as a treatment for painand PTSD, Doctor Barry or William what's

(09:48):
the latest on that? Very disappointingly, So there's still hands up towards research.
It's frustrating. I do want toa shout out to the positive for
my congressman here in Florida, CongressmanStuby, who's been really integral at the
VA level of trying to codify andlet's just get into it. What stops

(10:09):
veterans from getting their cannabis cards rightor even using over the counter hemp products.
Right, there's fear of course oflosing your VA benefits at medical careac
the VA. And here's the goodnews. And William correct me if I'm
wrong on it. At this point, as it stands, cannot deny benefits,

(10:33):
okay, through a veteran over hisusage of appropriate medical cannabis with a
card. What they can do isdeny prescribing hydrocode owner other narcotics anniva or
other benzo diaza pans. But inmost settings these days, the Vays are
becoming much more understanding about their veteransdesires to use cannabis. Right, So

(10:58):
that's now Congressman Stub very importantly istrying to codify that into law. So
now it's policy within the VA world. But of course it'll be much better
when it's codified, you know,into law. And those are the small
but very important steps that are soimportant as we go forward within the VA

(11:18):
system. Yeah, So, William, as a veteran, how are you
getting educated and about cannabis, thelegal the legal side of cannabis use.
How are you and other veterans gettingyour information through the VA and others.
Well, let me start off withhow I attain this information. I'm self

(11:39):
taught. I go to a lotof conferences. I speak with a lot
of doctors from every corner of Americathat you're combined. So I taught myself
how to go and curate and cultivatecannabis as well as the different purposes and
uses of the plan. And asearlier, there's still a million other things

(12:01):
that we don't know quite just yet. And so it's just one of those
things that I can't go out andgoogle everything. You have to go and
read actually and into your homework andask our professionals on are what are the
benefits of it? What are thethings that you see as of now about
cannabis. So in terms of theveterans, I just go and reguritate everything

(12:22):
that I know to them and I'mmore simplified matter in form. Yeah,
so Ddtor Barry, when you whenyou have veterans coming to you because they
have the qualifying condition, are youcollaborating with them? And maybe they're va
VA provider because it does say thatfrom the US Department of Veteran Affairs.

(12:43):
It says that they can educate veteransabout cannabis, but they don't have the
legal authority to recommend it or tohelp veterans obtain it. So how do
you work with them and their clinicianor their physician through the VA. It's
such a great question, Heidi,because you know, essentially patients don't always

(13:03):
want you necessarily commuting back and forthwith their doctor. Any patients haven't yet
discussed it with their doctor. Ihave an entire lecture on my computer called
how to talk to your doctor aboutmedical Cannabis, and my recommendation is to
leave yourself out of the conversation inthe first person. So William, for

(13:24):
example, if he didn't know howit was VA doctor felt about the cannabis
program or the use of cannabis,just ask them point out, do you
have any experience with the medical cannabisprogram? Do you have any patients not
any other patients? Do you haveany patients in the medical cannabis program that
allows you to open up the dialogueto hear what your doctor has to say

(13:45):
right without him taking bias against you. And because as in general, the
answer you're going to hear today isthat I didn't learn it in med school.
There's no residency program for it,but I do know about it.
I do have patients in it,and we need research. Okay, very
few doctors will say, oh mygod, pot dope weed grass a drug,
do its stay away from it.The best answer is it's that doctor

(14:09):
Barry Guy and other legitimate medical cannabisdoctors that can provide this. We pray
and wait for the day that theVA docs can formally and fully participate in
the process. And we're open doorevery day to those doctors and nurse practitioners.
Quite frankly in other mid levels,they want to come and learn about
medical cannabis. We've had a lotof docks in, including some VA docs

(14:31):
here. They want to learn aboutit, even though they can't do it
very good. So we got aquestion from Tracy. Can we pull up
Tracy's question please? She's watching onYouTube. She says, what can you
do when you are a veteran butyou still work for the federal government and
you're getting drug tested every so often? Is there any law in place to

(14:52):
protect that veteran and it's job Soit's state by state right now, and
some of the northern, more liberalstates I put in some job protections.
We surely don't have it at thefederal level. The federal Schedule one designation,
of course, is one of themost important things that needs to fall
here in Florida. We do talkabout job protections. It gets dismissed every

(15:15):
year at the legislative level, unfortunately, not really ever really getting a fair
hearing out of committee. But we'renot going to stop. Most likely you're
going to see that happen in thepublic sector employee field first and then it
will go out into the private sector. On the other hand, very importantly
so here in Sarasota, sarah SotaMemorial Hospital has added a new page to

(15:37):
their employee handbook. It states thatif you hold a medical cannabis card and
you come to work unimpaired every day, you're welcome here. That's doctor,
that's nurse, that's respiratory tech,that's housekeeping, that's nutrition, that's everybody.
And that's a singular hospital who's madethat statement and stance. And I
can't say that I had a lotto do with it, but I did

(15:58):
meet with their CEO and discussed theissue about five months ago, so we're
throwed about it. We have nursesnow currently that have gone back to work
at Sarah Sodo Memorial Hospital because ofthat policy. So it's slowly changing,
is the answer. But right nowyou don't have the protections that we want.
Yeah. Interesting, So I wantedto ask you all both, what
kinds of questions do you get fromveterans? You know, William, you're

(16:21):
in the you're making afuse foods.You know, my mouth was when you
were talking about the sauces and allthat kind of stuff, right, So
what kind of are you getting fromyour fellow veterans when you're out and about
and you're talking about your products.What are you hearing from them? And
then doctor Barry, I want togo to you to find out what are
you hearing from veterans in Florida?So, William, what are you hear?

(16:41):
Well? A lot of my arentsask is this legal? I can
ask my doctor about this, becausehere in Louisiana you better not to ask
your doctor about medical marijuana at theVA. I just did it two weeks
ago. He's like, don't dothat. You know you can do that,
and I'm like, well, thefederal law says otherwise you just don't

(17:03):
want to talk about it, thenI just tell me that. So I
get a plea of questions, likea proper delshitch, you know what do
I need? Do I need indicus, fatigular hybrid, etc. And I
said, well, I can't honestlygive you a recommendation because I'm not qualified
to do so, but I can'tpoint you in the right direction. So

(17:23):
it's just mainly educating them on whatdoes what the HYMP, the CBD,
the TA chiefs, just pretty mucheducating them on what what always in the
in the bottle or in the plantat the time. And I also get
a lot of how do I getmy license? So there's not a lot
of information out there to help thecome and a Joe blow to know where

(17:47):
to go exactly to get their license, how to go and attain it in
the proper manner or fashion. Soit's just a lot of the basic questions
as you get at any any othera doctor's office, but just related to
cannabis, and so I just tryto answer them as as specifically responsible and
I made a hand out with FAQson there, so hopefully that can help

(18:08):
them in an accoudible manner. AndI also have my email at theress and
my phone number. I guess theyneed to call him. Yeah, listen,
veterans coming every day. It's anhonor to assist them in their care
m. A lot of it depends, of course, and what their past
cannabis usage history is. You know, we have our Dubie scale, William,

(18:30):
you'd like it in our clinic.Dobie one's never done, Dubie two's
used to do, Doubi threes,set me free, current adult use cannabis,
you know, citizens, and thenwe have Dubie fours that are Willie
Nelson, Snoop Dogg, Tommy Chong, people that have done every day.
But you have to understand that theVietnam veteran, I'm veteran often has used
cannabis for years. They've had togo out to their garage at a certain

(18:52):
point of their lives so their kidswouldn't find them. You know, you
have to treat them entirely different thanand I heard your story when we have
the pre call. Someone different thanyourself is coming into cannabis for the first
time as an adult, right,so you have to understand that a patient's
past cannabis use as everything in theworld to do with the recommendation of the
you know, how they're going touse the medicine now, and you know

(19:15):
we never go milligram of THHC dosingbecause there's too much variability over the past
um, you know, use ofthe patients you mentioned terpenes and and and
cultivars and things like that. Thatbecomes a little bit more specific for those
people that really have a lot ofexperience with cannabis, because sativas or certain

(19:36):
terpenes will energize, indicas or certainterpenes will sedate, and they can be
opposite for you know, certain peopletoo. So you're wise not to give
specifics, you know, to theextent of your recommendations, but always to
let people know that it's the THHCfundamentally that's going to be your more active
ingredient, and then your other cannabinoidsthat are going to add your balance,

(19:57):
your anti inflammatory effect and and otherthings. So it needs to be treated
individually with the respect that of courseeverybody would want as they would go into
any doctor's office, So they needto keep it a medical experience, you
know, veteran's Heidi, it's it'sgun rights. Quite frankly, it's it's
CDL, commercial's, commercial driver's license, you know, issues, it's it's

(20:18):
the ability to live a life thatyou want to live in spite of using
a substance that still hasn't gained theacceptance you know that it does, and
you stigma to a certain extent.It's interesting that's kind of melted away a
little bit. I think most familiesaccept, especially in the veteran population,
that whatever it's going to help thatveteran maintain the best quality of life that
they can. Yeah, we do. We tell the veterans bring their families

(20:41):
in with them if there's hesitants.You know, we're all about educating everybody
to the extent of the appropriate useof the plant. Yeah, so,
William any closing thoughts on this conversationon cannabis, about veterans and cannabis use
any closing thoughts you like. Ifyou are a veteran out there who is
in need or have any questions,please feel free to reach out to me

(21:03):
in any any platform or any capacity. But please always think about the alternatives
to opioids. This is a naturalplant, natural that will not harm all
of your main organs and things ofthat nature. And as a doctor Seider,
if you can't overdose on this stuff, you just have to educate yourself
and see if it's applicable to youand your needs. So get the proper

(21:29):
help. Talk to a license individualthat knows about this. Though not ask
your grandmother, do not ask yourcousin. Ask somebody that actually knows about
this, and use it. Iresponsible, thank you. Yeah, you
know, it's funny, you know, sometimes grandma knows a lot, you
know, And I'm teasing that I'mnot, you know, I mean jamaking.

(21:52):
Grandma's of course have been making teasand poultices and things of that nature,
you know, forever, So youknow, I say, I say
that the key is twenty twenty threeliving, recognizing that we've all carried a
computer or cell phone around in ourpocket for a number of years. The
kids have grown up differently, youknow, ducking under their desks for school

(22:14):
shooting drills, and just in general, society is so busy and different.
And as I tell people, listen, if you're one of the ten or
fifteen percent of the population, includingour veterans, that can get through life
with no substance use at all,biofeedback, exercise, you know, whatever
it may be, God bless you. And that's a very healthy lifestyle and
I fully support it. But ingeneral, in twenty twenty three. Most

(22:38):
people will utilize something, and surely, if you're going to utilize a substance,
be moderate, be smart, besafe, and if it's going to
be cannabis, use the caution tomake sure that the products that you're obtaining
are safe and regulated and tested,and then get that education that's going to
enable you to utilize that particular medicineor legal adult use product in the most

(23:03):
appropriate of manners. That's always goingto be my interest as a physician is
in making sure that the safety andthe educational aspect is always there for every
substance. Cannabis concluded. Thank youwell doctor Berry and William, Thank you
both for being guests on this Conversationson Cannabis virtual form, brought to you
by the Medical Marijuana Education and ResearchInitiative at Florida and M University. Thank

(23:30):
you to everyone watching this program.Tell us what you think about this form
by completing the survey that will beposted in the come inboxes on YouTube and
Facebook after this live program. Ifyou complete the survey, your name will
be entered into a drawing on Juneeighth, twenty twenty three to win a
one hundred dollars gift card provided byone of Mary's partners. We also want

(23:51):
to encourage you to go to theFlorida Department of Health Office of Medical Marijuana
Use website to learn how to obtaina legal medical marijuana car in the state
of Florida. We also encourage youto go to Florida and M University's Merry
website to learn more about this initiative, it's educational programs and additional information about
cannabis use in Florida. Thanks everyone. The views and opinions of our invited

(24:18):
guests are not necessarily the views andopinions of Florida Agricultural and Mechanical University or
the Medical Marijuana Education and Research Initiative.