Veterans and Cannabis - The Challenges Facing Our Heroes - Part 1

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Episode Transcript

(00:01):
From the W A and M Studioon the campus of Florida A and M
University. This is Mariforum Radio,a weekly conversation on the education and research
or medical marijuana being conducted back toBMW HI. I'm Heidi Otway, your
host for this Conversations on Cannabis virtualform, brought to you by the Medical
Marijuana Education and Research Initiative at Floridaand M University. In this conversation,

(00:25):
we're talking about initiatives like an impactveterans who use or want to use cannabis
as medicine. So let's talk andlearn about this subject with our guests.
Doctor Berry Gordon has built a careerworking on the front lines of the American
healthcare system. After years of workingin the emergency rooms up north, he
moved to Florida and started the CompassionateCannabis Clinic to treat patients with chronic illnesses

(00:51):
using cannabis therapy. Doctor Barry isgreat to have you back on the forum.
Listen, it's an honor every time, Heidi, and listen. You
know, everybody knows that the statedollars for their medical cannabis card contains some
all of it, you know,and for this educational initiative, so I
call this the official educational arm youknow of the state's program. Always an

(01:11):
honor. Thank you so much,Thank you so much. And our other
guest is William Davis, who isbased in Louisiana and the president of Euphoria
Eats, where he makes and sellsHEMP infused foods. William is a US
Army veteran who used his passion forcooking and catering to create an alternative way

(01:33):
for people to consume HEMP and CBDthrough food. William, I'm looking forward
to learning more about you and yourexperiences. Welcome to the forum. Thank
you. I'm excited to be here. This has been a big pleasure of
mine. So I'm all ears andI'm ready to give you guys information wonderful
To everyone joining us on this liveprogram, please share posts and tag a

(01:56):
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share the links so others can joinus as well. During the form,
we want you to sinish your questionsin the comment box and we'll do our
best to have our guests answer them. We also want you to tell us
what you think about this forum bycompleting the survey that will be posted in
the comments on YouTube and Facebook.After the live program, your name will

(02:20):
be entered into a drawing on Juneeighth, twenty twenty three to win a
one hundred dollars gift card provided byone of Mary's partners. Now let's start
this conversation on cannabis, doctor Garden. I'm going to start with you.
Tell us what prompting you to startyour medical practice that treats patients in Florida
using the cannabis plant to treat theirqualified conditions. Well, you know,

(02:43):
how do you have an emergency medicinetrained physician? And you know, as
you said, front lines of emergencymedicine for thirty four years all up in
Ohio. The three things I neversaw in an emergency setting wasn't acute problem
from cannabis. A little bit differentthese days with some of the ADI rolls
and cannabis hyperemesis syndrome and things likethat, but in my career was never

(03:04):
a day to day problem. Wenever saw a husband or wife team or
any domestic partner team beat up theirpartner after using cannabis. That tended to
be much more of an alcohol associatedevent. But more importantly, on the
chronic side, we didn't see thechronic problems from cannabis, even though we
knew that people were using it outthere, whereas alcoholic course, on both

(03:25):
an acute and chronic basis, isdaily in every ear. But you know,
just as importantly, and probably mostimportantly, no one has ever died
in anybody's hospital emergency room from cannabis. Nobody ever will. And that's scientific
because of the cannabinoid system not affectingthe respiratory centers of the brain versus alcohol

(03:46):
opiates, benzo days a Panza loanerin combination. And I'll be honest,
the third thing that I never hadin my career, I never lost a
partner or a friend to cannabis.I had lost into drugs, alcohol,
women, gambling, tobacco. Andnow in this day and age, of
course every age, depression and suicide. Gun violence of course now the leading

(04:06):
cause of death in the pediatric population. So you have to look at twenty
twenty three is a very unique eraof both society and medicine. It's not
easy to be a doctor these days, and it's not easy to be a
patient either. So my philosophy nowis that we need every arrow in the

(04:26):
quiver to help our patients in thehealthcare environment of twenty twenty three, and
then includes this uniquely ancient healthcare plantbased alternative and all about the endocannabinoing system
and science behind it. So that'swhy it was really an answer to what
I had seen societally and knowing thatcannabis needed to be much better understood and

(04:50):
integrated both into healthcare and society itself. Yeah, thank you for sharing that
background. William, your army veteranthat now runs a business creating and selling
himp confused foods. So what compto start your company? Well, or
what prop for me is go andstarted a four eats was a dual purpose.

(05:11):
Had a buddy of mine his niecehad MS and a couple of other
issues, and so they were givenher a Rick Simpson oil, which she
hated the taste of it. Andso at the time I was doing a
competition cooking here in Louisiana and thenin South Texas. So I had an
extra a barbecue sauce, and Ijust mixed some up and I said,
hey, let me get the horribletaste out of it, and letters she

(05:33):
likes it or not, so itwas a winner. She loved it actually,
And the other reason why I hadto do this is because I needed
it myself, not knowing that Iwas going to be I did it to
the opioids at from PTSD and acute anxiety I disordered. So it was
a therapeutic means for me to goand wean myself off the opioids as well
as help that every day in individualwho has issues that cannabis can help.

(06:00):
Wow, well, thank you forbecause William, you spell him there's communists
and infused foods. And then doctorBarry, you're recommending medical cannabis that has
THHC. So I think for ouraudience, can you, doctor Barry explain
what's the difference between the THHC medicalcannabis and then the hemp so that we
have a good understanding of how thetwo of those are different. Yeah,

(06:24):
for sure. First off, William, thank you so much for your service.
And you know, as we headinto Memorial Day this weekend, I
always remind everybody that you know towish somebody a happy Memorial Day isn't really
what the veteran wants to hear.The veteran wants to hear the honor and
and and the memory right of thosethey served with those that didn't come home.

(06:45):
Um, the sacrifice that that youall made. So you know,
I tend to look at Memorial Daya little bit differently, I think than
others because I've been reminded by youknow, so many veterans how important it
is to remember. So thank youso much, William for the sacrifices that
that you made. And when you'rereferring to and how do you get so
interesting? Because you've had so manyguests on your program, you know,

(07:06):
I want to get you into mypodcast, The Green Room and ask you
about what you've learned, because listen, I don't think you came in as
a Willie Nelson to cannabis yourself.And I know that when you do your
interviews, you learn in each interview, right and for sure, And I
do too, and I've been doingthis for a long time. So it
is a give and take between everybody. But I think one thing that you've

(07:29):
heard out of William, that you'veheard out of many guests is that it's
often a personal experience right then leadsthem into the cannabis space. So in
William's case, as he said,it was helping a friend, okay with
their problem and also realizing that hehimself could benefit. And just to get
back to your question, he usedthe term RSO or Rick Simpson oil and

(07:55):
very importantly so to describe what thatis. That is a process plant based
product into an oil. That iswhat we call in It's a funny term,
the dirtiest of the processing. Dirtysounds bad, but a cannabi doesn't
dirty is good. The least amount, okay, of all the plants compounds

(08:18):
have been removed while it's been convertedinto an oil. Why is that important?
Because it's not just the THHC ordelta nine THHC primarily, which is
the main potent ingredient in cannabis andthe one that leads to the mental intoxication
from cannabis, always always will,But it's all of the other cannabinoids,

(08:41):
the CBD, the CBN, CBC, CBG. I know, William Roles
speak to the general cannabis world.They know the THHC aspect of it,
and we're learning now about all ofthe other cannabinoids. Delta have a role
to play. That other discussion fromthe plant itself it's THHC and then the

(09:03):
other cannabinoids. Rick Simpson oil preservesall of those other minor cannabinoids and things
called terpenes, all those minor chemicalsin the plant that we just don't know
yet by research, because we aregoing to have the chance to do.
The research is opening the door,turning the key, helping a lot of

(09:24):
the symptoms. So the Rick Simpsonoils, especially in the cancer world in
MS and Parkinson's, people that wantthat concentrated form of the best of the
plant use that as their product.Yeah. So, speaking of research,
we know that this year Congress wastrying to launch clinical trials for veterans to
use cannabis as a treatment for painand PTSD. Doctor Barry or William,

(09:48):
what's the latest on that? Verydisappointingly, So there's still hands up towards
research. It's frustrating. I doto give a shout out to the positive
for my congressman here in Florida,Congressman Stuby, who's been really integral at
the VA level of trying to codifyand let's just get into it. What

(10:09):
stops veterans from getting their cannabis cardsright or even using over the counter hemp
products. Right, there's fear ofcourse of losing your VA benefits at medical
careacter the VA. And here's thegood news. And William correct me if
I'm wrong on it. The VAat this point, as it stands,

(10:31):
cannot deny benefits, okay, througha veteran over his usage of appropriate medical
cannabis with a card. What theycan do is deny prescribing hydrocode owner other
narcotics animate or other benzo diaza pans. But in most settings these days,
the Vays are becoming much more understandingabout their veterans desires to use cannabis.

(10:58):
Right, So that's sow. Congressmanstub Be very importantly is trying to codify
that into law. So now it'spolicy within the VA world. But of
course it'll be much better when it'scodified, you know, into law.
And those are the small but veryimportant steps that are so important as we
go forward within the VADA system.Yeah, So, William, as a

(11:22):
veteran, how are you getting educatedand about cannabis, the legal the legal
side of cannabis use. How areyou and other veterans getting your information through
the VA and others. Well,let me start off with how I attain
this information, I'm self taught.I go to a lot of conferences.

(11:43):
I speak with a lot of doctorsfrom every corner of America that you're combined.
So I taught myself how to goand curate and cultivate cannabis as well
as the different purposes uses of theplan and as about there's still a million
other things that we don't know quiteyour shaded and so it's just one of

(12:05):
those things that I can't go outand google everything. You have to go
and read actually and into your homeworkand ask our professionals on what are what
are the benefits of it? Whatare the things that you see as of
now about cannabis. So in termsof the veterans, I just go and
regurtitate everything that I know to them, and I'm more simplified manner and form

(12:26):
because a lot of people don't quiteunderstand all the technical words, all the
all the different um all the differentuh CBDs at CBOs and everything else,
so you have to explain it tothem and make it more palatable for them
to understand. So that's how Iget all of my information. I go
straight to the horse's mouth and Iask a million questions. As well as

(12:48):
having a company, you have tohave a lot of lawyers who are in
the know or who know somebody that'sin the know. So I pay for
a lot of the information as well. So it's us. It's kind of
like a lava lamb. You alwayshave to evolve with the information because there's
not one way that you can goand possibly know at all unless you're a
doctor in your indu industry right now, Yeah, and you know a lot

(13:13):
different from the laws in Florida.So doctor Barry, you know, we
tell everyone on the show, ifyou're in Florida, go to the Florida
Department of Health Office of Medical Marijuanause to learn about how to legally obtain
medical marijuana medical marijuana card here inFlorida, and doctor Barry will be listed
as one of the two thousand plusphysicians that are qualified to recommend cannabis to

(13:35):
those who receive the card. So, William, can you give us just
a quick snapshot of Louisiana's law is? What is there? How I attained
my medical card? Here is Ihave to get a recommendation from a doctor
and being asked I have a PTSDalready on record, that was my proof
of me and needing this this medicine. From there, you go to a

(13:58):
handful of pharmacies who have all ofthe control of the cannabis in Louisiana on
the medicinal side of things, andyou go there and give them I think
it's one hundred fifty bucks to geta card in an annually. You have
to go and renew this card.M So those are the steps here.
But if you don't have any ofthe documentation, you have to eat a

(14:20):
doctor to go and say that youhave an abilitating illness or an illment in
order for you to go and qualifyto get a card or a prescription here
in in the state, Okays.So, so it's really important in Florida
to know that the qualifying conditions thatwe have in the state are also followed.

(14:41):
And you know, I could damethem off. It's listen, it's
kind of so ingrained, but veryimportantly they're similar likewise or as comparable conditions
that efficient advocates here in the state. Listen, let's face it, positions
in this environment need to be safetyofficers, educators and advocates for their patients.

(15:05):
Here in Florida especially, we havesnowbirds that come down every year for
five or six months from Canada,from New York, from Illinois, from
other legal adult use environments of Californiaand Colorado. I mean, Florida attracts
everybody. We have people literally comingdown to Florida who are using cannabis safely

(15:26):
appropriately, have reduced there at avan for sleep or ambient for sleep.
They're drinking less alcohol, less innarcotics. But they may not have a
qualifying condition quote unquote to be ableto enroll, but very important. So
we have PTSD as one of ourqualifying conditions. And while I would never
equate Williams PTSD with a police officersPTSD or an EMTs PTSD, we all

(15:54):
have our own life experiences. Butif you're safely obtaining cannad miss and using
it successfully of north and then you'rehere in Florida for six months and listen,
I've had these discussions with the politiciansin the state. They need to
understand and my role is to bea safety officer for that citizen that comes

(16:15):
to Florida so that they don't needto go to the drum circle, so
to speak, in our area orsome other illegal source of trying to find
cannabis very unsafe and illegal of course, but also I'm not going to recommend
going to the liquor store and I'mnot going to pull out an ad van
prescription for that patient they've successfully gottenoff of that. So the advocates role

(16:37):
as a position in Florida is asan educator, and William you hit upon
it. The most important thing isthe education and the safety. Each and
every veteran, each and every citizen, okay, should be able to obtain
the safe with educational access to asubstance of people are using already successfully in

(17:02):
so many areas of the country andthe world. We're stuck in this very
interesting kind of halfway zone. Weknow that we're going to get to legal
adult use in Florida heid. You'vehad shows about smartness Save Florida, I
think, and where we're going legaladult use, what's coming down the pike.
But I tell everybody in the medicalworld, we need to keep the

(17:23):
quality of our product with the labelingand the testing okay appropriate with no taxes,
right because we're an untaxed system.And as we go forward, the
job protections, the inhospital and nursinghome assistant living use a home grow option
for our patients. There's a listof things about that long that are going

(17:45):
to be years long struggles here inFlorida. And you, William, because
you're in Louisiana, you're going tobe six or seven years behind us.
Okay, So I'm a glass halffull guy. I always will be.
But you know, you see HarryAnnesley or behind my shoulder over there,
you know, and he's just anexample of where we've come from, oh

(18:06):
so many years ago, from thecomplete prohibition and now listen, we have
battles to fight. But I'm muchmore class half full guy. It's so
much better than it was before.But you're gonna be behind us for a
good six seven years. I wantto go to William because William, you
did not always use medical cannabis legallyto see. So tell me about that

(18:26):
experience that you that kind of willhelp you get to where you are now.
Yes, well, actually I washooked on obio was pretty bad there
for a good three years towards theending of my college there. So I
just like, how do I getoff this? Yeah? And nobody had
the answers in because this was thealong the time when the obo epidemic first

(18:47):
hit and everybody really didn't know awhole lot about it. Well, when
you go to these doctors and theygive you one hundred and twenty of of
hydro code on and you get hookedon, I mean, you don't notice
you're hooked on him until your attitudechanges of mood swings and now you're sweating
professionly because you haven't had it.So I said, well, at me
trying something different than this, Andso I tried a recreational cannabis, which

(19:11):
I do not to recommend because youdon't know what's in it as of now.
But then I did it ignorantly andI didn't know any better, and
that was the only form of alleviationthat I could get at the time,
and it alleviated me from having todepend heavily upon the opio. It's a
versus me going up to my localor corner and getting what I needed.

(19:33):
So, so listen, I protectingme. I think, hang on,
well, he was not the onlyperson on the show right now, Okay,
that's used cannabis illegally. You know, I'm certainly seven years old.
I had an entire emergency medicine career. Okay, right, drug testing in
my contract. I went to workevery single day with honor and integrity,

(19:57):
and if there was ever a daythat I showed up for my er shift
unable to perform my life saving duties, quite frankly, in the year I
took a damn seriously Okay, andI did have drug testing in my contract
every day. But that's the uniqueability of cannabis consumer to slot it appropriately.

(20:18):
And listen, I was an alcoholguy. I did twelve hours shifts.
Nobody wanted me doing a seven pmto seven am shift in the er,
going home and doing three shots ofwhiskey to get my four or five
or six hours to sleep before goingback to work at seven that night.
So there's been an undercurrent of appropriatecannabis consumer use. And listen, Tommy

(20:40):
Chong is the one who said it'sall medicine. Okay, that's not my
line, but I just want tomake sure that one wasn't hung out to
dry there. But my point ismy point. I'm happy to come out
to the extent of letting you know, people look at my past life history,
never stepped footing, and the courtof law they can't get me now

(21:00):
I'm more than seven years out ofthe er, and seriously, and not
to you know, tout anybody's horn. I was pretty happy and pretty well
loved r Doc. So it's justa very interesting world that we live in
and turning the cover off of thatis a big part of what we do.
Yeah, I think the goal hereis really to remove those stigmas,
right, because again, Canada iscantabs and people use it, and so

(21:23):
do Marry. I want to kindof segue to what Lloyd said. You
know, he used the recreational becausehe needed relief. Are you seeing veterans
come to you in similar situations andhow do you how do you need to
treat them? The most beautiful thingabout it, Heidi, is William's experience
that he described about being able toreduce or completely remove narcotics. Okay,

(21:45):
that's sleep medication as well, addof van zanex. Listen. I'm never
either or guy, and it's ahallmark to my practice. I never take
a patient who comes in on alist of meds that high and says,
listen, if you don't come inon half of those med's time, I'm
going to be disappointed in you,and you should be disappointed as well,
because that's why you're here. No, why the patient is here is to

(22:07):
feel the best they can. Andevery single patient wants the least amount of
pharma impact that they can. That'swhy they're coming to see me. And
I use the patience motivation quite frankly, in the reduction of their medicines.
Not me, not their pain managementdoctor, their psychiatric doctor. Nobody forces

(22:27):
patients to reduce medications that don't wantto my advantages. All of my patients
do want to reduce their pharma.We educate them and how to do it,
We empower them and how to doit. We respect our patience enough.
And I'm going to call out thedoctors in the state right now,
who's ever watching. I hope everydoctor in the state is taking the time

(22:49):
and respecting each and every patient,especially every veteran patient, with educating them
about what this plant can do.If you're not respecting the patient to educate
them about a plant that you shouldalso respect as the medicine that it is,
then you're not providing a medical cannabisexperience. You're providing a card and

(23:10):
there is a difference. So Isay, patients demand that education from your
doctor, because that's where the magicoccurs. It's the motivation of the patient
and the education provided in how touse the plant the best way that it
can be used. Thank you well, doctor Barry and William. Thank you
both for being guests on this Conversationson Cannabis Virtual form brought to you by

(23:32):
the Medical Marijuana Education and Research Initiativeat Florida and M University. Thank you
to everyone watching this program. Tellus what you think about this form by
completing the survey that will be postedin the common boxes on YouTube and Facebook
after this live program. If youcomplete the survey, your name will be
entered into a drawing on June eighth, twenty twenty three, to win a

(23:55):
one hundred dollars gift card provided byone of Mary's partners. We also want
to encourage you to go to theFlorida Department of Health Office of Medical Marijuana
Use website to learn how to obtaina legal medical marijuana card in the state
of Florida. We also encourage youto go to Florida and M University's Married
website to learn more about this initiative, it's educational programs and additional information about

(24:18):
cannabis use in Florida. Thanks everyone. The views and opinions of our invited
guests are not necessarily the views andopinions of Florida Agricultural and Mechanical University or
the Medical Marijuana Education and Research Initiative