Kings Unchained: Black Love, Unfiltered-Healing Wounds & Embracing Growth

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
UNKNOWN (00:08):
AM Radio.

SPEAKER_01 (00:25):
Kings and Queens.
Thank you for tuning in and forsticking with me through all
these recent technicaldifficulties I've been having.
But you know what?
Albeit late, I'm always on time.
And today's message, it's righton time too.
If you caught the prelude, theintroductory episode to Kings
Unchained, you already know whatthis season is about.

(00:48):
Real conversations, real kings,real love, and real healing.
And today, we're diving I'll seeyou on the other side.

(01:15):
Peace.
There are certain conversationsthat don't just feel the air.
They feel the spirit.
And this one right here, thisone is about love, but not the

(01:38):
filtered soundbite version theworld likes to market.
Not the trauma-bonded, toxic,tit-for-tat version so many have
come to expect.
No, this is about sacred blacklove, the kind that can heal
bloodlines if we let it.
My guest today is a man whoholds space for that kind of
love.

(01:58):
He's a relationship coach, atruth teller, a mirror, helping
men and women unlearn the noiseand remember how to love again.
He's the founder of Sit Down andHeal, a platform rooted in
truth, vulnerability,accountability, and emotional
liberation.
That name alone tells you whattime it is.

(02:19):
And today, we're going there.
We're talking about what lovelooks like when it's been
battered by generational trauma.
Heartened by heartbreak anddistorted by survival.
We're unpacking black rage,spiritual alignment, love after
abuse, and what it really meansto rebuild from the wreckage.
This isn't a debate.

(02:39):
It's a dialogue.
One rooted in care and truth.
And whether you're single,healing, loving, or learning to
love again, this conversation isfor you.
Because what's missing in thisworld, and especially in our
community, isn't sex, attention,or even connection.
It's love.

(03:00):
Real, radical, healing love.
The kind that feels safe,especially for Black men and
women.
So let's get into it with thebrother behind Sit Down and
Heal, Derek Jones.
Welcome to Mamba Ron and FilterKing.
How art thou this day?
I

SPEAKER_03 (03:17):
am fantastic.
How are you?

SPEAKER_01 (03:19):
I am...
Look.
When people ask me thatquestion, I actually try to
reflect, take a pause for asecond.
Who am I feeling?
Because we answer by rote.
Oh, I'm fine.
I'm great.
I'm okay.
And really, you're not.
So reflecting here briefly, Ithink I'm doing pretty good.
I'm excited.
I'm excited to finally connectwith you here for this

(03:39):
conversation.
And I appreciate you for asking.
Thank you.
And

SPEAKER_03 (03:43):
I appreciate you having me here.
This is going to be fun.

SPEAKER_01 (03:45):
No doubt already.
We've had our meet and greet andthat was fun in itself.
Look, we're going to make somecontent out of that.
I'm going to send it.
Well, I'm a guy who...

SPEAKER_03 (04:19):
Just like a lot of us have gone through a lot of
trials and tribulations in life,and sometimes we carry our own
issues and trauma.
And so with me, my trauma causedme to be in a ton of different
situations when it comes toromantic relationships and had a
lot of tragedies and some wins,a lot of losses.

(04:40):
And realizing that I was able tokind of, with my analytical
brain, kind of analyze my ownjourney heal from a lot of the
stuff still ongoing becausehealing is a lifelong journey
but I healed and when I healedbecause I actually like really
dug into the why of things and Irealized that I was able to look

(05:01):
at other people's situations andanalyze them and kind of figure
out solutions and help myfriends and family and I was
like you know what I'm good atthis relationship stuff let me
see what it would take for me tobecome a relationship coach so I
became that and I was doing itsuccessfully, but I realized
something deeper is that whenyou give people the tools to

(05:23):
date better, relationshipbetter, online date better, if
they still have their ownpersonal traumas and wounds, it
will still resurface no matterhow many relationship tools I
gave them.
That gave the birth of Sit Downand Heal, which is a moniker
that I chose because that'sexactly what I had to do.
I had to stop the behavior, sitdown, and work on myself and so

(05:46):
I realized that it's betterserved for me and my purpose to
help people heal first And thenwe can talk about the minutia of
the dating world after we knowthat you're a better version of
yourself and a more healedversion of yourself.
So

SPEAKER_02 (06:00):
I

SPEAKER_03 (06:01):
made that 90% of my platform now.
And then the rest of the stuffwhere, you know, where to meet
better people and all that, wecan put that on.
That's the icing on the cake.
But we got to get the main thingis the main thing.
So that's kind of where I am.
That's what I do.
I'm an engineer by trade.
So my mind works a littledifferently than a lot of other
coaches.
I really...
Right.
Thank you, Derek.

SPEAKER_01 (06:45):
Right.
Right.

(07:14):
I always say when that's thecase, let the content speak
because how somebody shows up intheir content, that tells you
everything you need to know.
And what I saw in yours wassomeone who's building, building
people up, Building bridges andrelationships, building truth.
And that aligned perfectly withthis platform because Mambaran

(07:36):
Unfiltered is all about the samekind of building.
So I knew the moment I cameacross Sit Down and Heal that
you make a powerful addition tothis season of Kings Unchained.
Because connection, to me,that's the lifeblood of
community.
And if we're not connecting,we're not growing.
So I want to thank you again forbuilding with me today.
Now that we've set the table,let's get into your story.

(07:58):
I always like to start at thebeginning because before the
coaching, before the platform,before the work you're doing
now, there was a boy becoming aman trying to make sense of the
world and where he fit in.
So, Derek, tell me about thatyounger version of you.
What was the foundation?
What shaped your voice, yourperspective, your sense of love

(08:20):
and connection?
This

SPEAKER_03 (08:22):
is a good story to tell.
If you would have caught me fiveyears ago, I probably would not
be able to tell it so eloquentlybecause there's a lot of work
that has been done.
Even after I worked on myself,you know, you always find new
areas.
Right.
You haven't touched.

SPEAKER_01 (08:37):
Exactly.
It's amazing how our testimonycan be shaped and formed over
time.

SPEAKER_03 (08:42):
But I would say as a boy, I didn't have a voice
because I was very like shy,very non-confrontational, trying
to find my way in the world, butalso shy.
you're having parents thatsheltered me and then be also
self-imposing my own shelter asa awkward child.
So I didn't make a lot ofconnectivity, even growing into

(09:04):
a teenager, close emotionalconnections with people, male or
female, because I didn't havethat as part of my toolbox.
My parents were not outwardlyemotional, present, not the type
that would hug or Tell you Ilove you or give you the
affirmations that you probablyneeded to hear as a kid.
It was like we're doing whatwe're supposed to.

(09:25):
They were great parents.
They were there.
They were present.
But I was missing that piece.
So I grew into a teenager whodid not have the capacity for
that.
So hence, no girlfriends in highschool or anything like that.
Plus, I was the bankie, right?
Like back in the 80s, nobody waschecking for nerds.

SPEAKER_01 (09:43):
Man, I promise.
Probably not until American Pie.

SPEAKER_03 (09:47):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (09:47):
I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_03 (09:49):
Not until Revenge of the Nerds, maybe.
I don't know.
It was an awkward time, evengoing into college, still being
that guy and trying to findmyself and building real
friendships, because now I hadthe ability to not have the
reins of the parents.
So now I was able to try tofoster friendships, but they
still weren't.
tight.

(10:09):
They were just present, right?
Because I still didn't have thatuntil I started really dating.
I was probably like 21.
And this is when the emotionalside starts to come out because
now you got a girlfriend and allof that.
But still, you don't have theexperience that some of your
peers have because they wasdating since high school and
having girlfriends and stuff.
So this was all new to me.

SPEAKER_01 (10:28):
Right.
And even that, there were peoplewho poured into them emotionally
and modeled that for them in ahealthy or not healthy way.
And you're figuring it out onyour own.

SPEAKER_03 (10:38):
Yes.
I was a late bloomers so Istarted delving into those but I
went into it from a childlikeinnocence some naivety and the
women that I chose or at leastthe first few they destroyed
that because they took advantageof it and I thought that you

(10:58):
know if I'm a good person and ifI honor them and I do this or
that then they'll love me butthat's not what they wanted they
wanted backbone they wantedalpha So I'm like, why would you
choose me?
They chose me because they alsowanted the other stuff too.
They just didn't get it all inthe same guy, right?

SPEAKER_01 (11:14):
Right.
What's that they say about womenand their friends and having
different types of friends tofeed those different emotional
aspects?

SPEAKER_03 (11:23):
Yeah.
They got high off of thetreatment and being honored, but
they still wanted that otherside that I just I hadn't found
myself yet to even know whattype of man that I really was.
I was just happy that I hadsomeone that I loved and that
wasn't enough for them.
And ironically, I picked thefirst three women who created

(11:43):
the monster because all threeback to back cheated.

SPEAKER_01 (11:47):
Oh, wow.
That's so horrible.

SPEAKER_03 (11:49):
They cheated with the other type of guy.
You know what I mean?
The one that doesn't treat themwell.
So my first few experienceschanged me.
Yeah.
Right.
And this made me bitter.
It made me not want to give allof myself to anyone ever again.
You know, all of those feelings.
But I also empath.

(12:10):
I'm also a person who loveslove.
And so I knew that I wanted tohave connectivity with But I
didn't want that to be theresult.
Right.
What I always tell people incoaching is our few anecdotal
experience sometimes becomes our

SPEAKER_02 (12:22):
worldview.
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (12:24):
And we think everybody's like that.
So I became this person thatvowed to myself back then that I
would never let anyone hurt melike that again without me
seeing it come to birth.
Right.
So I and again, you have to alsounderstand I have a like.
insanely like analytical mind.
I get it from my mom.
She was the type that when I wasin grade school, where if I got

(12:46):
a paper that I had to turn intothe teacher and the teacher
would mark it up with the redink, then come and find the
mistakes that the teacher madeand tell me to do it all over
again.
And then I would do it all overagain.
And she would like find theerrors and then I would have to
do it again.
So you have to understand theconditioning and how my mind was
trained to always find theflaws, to always look for the

(13:07):
inconsistencies.
And so I took that with my pain.
And I said, now I have to makesure that they can't hurt me
again.
So now I'm looking at things ata granular level.
Right.
Voice inflections, word choices,sentences.
I

SPEAKER_01 (13:21):
thought I was the only one.
I thought I was the only one whoputs that much stock in the
words people use, the way theystructure their words, how they
use their words.
People don't recognize what itsays about them.
Yeah.
Especially in social media.
And we'll get to that later on.
But especially in that echochamber of social media, how we

(13:41):
give ourself away through wordchoice.

SPEAKER_03 (13:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's very powerful.
And I learned to be better atpaying attention to nonverbal
communication and things likethis.
So I'm looking at everything.
And once I realized how powerfulit was to garner that
information, then I used it forevil.

SPEAKER_00 (14:04):
Oh, no.

SPEAKER_03 (14:05):
I used it to manipulate.

SPEAKER_00 (14:07):
Yeah.
So that I can.

SPEAKER_03 (14:08):
Yeah.
I can achieve the connectionwithout having to dive all the
way in.
And I knew that

SPEAKER_01 (14:16):
they would serve protected from getting hurt.

SPEAKER_03 (14:18):
Right.
They would serve my needs, eventhough they didn't even realize
what was going on.
Because if you and you knowthis, if you can parse out
things about a person'scharacter, then you can deliver
what they need without themtelling you.

SPEAKER_01 (14:30):
You tailor it.
You start modeling what theythink you want in order to make
them appear more desirable inorder for you to choose them.
And that's not even really them.
It's a facade.
And you can't maintain that.
And

SPEAKER_03 (14:43):
I tell the people that I coach all the time, you
think people always talk aboutthe blueprint.
Just don't tell them too muchand they'll use that as a
blueprint.
And I'm like, Your words are theleast of my worries.
Right.
I'm watching everything.
Right.
And I tell them that the peoplewho prey on you, whatever you
want to call them, right?
They hone their skills of thenonverbal cue.

(15:05):
So while you're worrying aboutpaying attention to the words,
they're cataloging informationabout you that you're not aware
of.
And I say, that's why you haveto look at all of the cues so
that you can create your owncharacter profile to see if you
even need to be there.
They're also doing the samething.
You have to be aware that that'swhere the boundaries come in.
Because once they see a way in,you still have the option to say

(15:29):
no if it doesn't feel right.
And that's where a lot of peoplefail.
So for my story, I, person wholacked the emotional connection
to parents, now giving 200% ofthat to these three women, And
then destroying that version ofme doesn't mean that the need
wasn't still there.

SPEAKER_02 (15:49):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (15:50):
So I use this analytical tool that I had
developed to almost shortcut myway into feeling emotion from
someone without having to wait.
I would make it feel like thatin a week.

SPEAKER_01 (16:03):
Fast food version.

SPEAKER_03 (16:04):
So that way I got speed to feed my trauma.
But then, of course, at somepoint they're going to be like,
I want you to meet.
my best friend.
And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa,

SPEAKER_01 (16:14):
whoa, whoa, whoa.
Now we're talking aboutconnection.
We're getting real.

SPEAKER_03 (16:17):
Yeah, this is I need my drug.
I need my drug.
And that's it.
My drug of choice wasn't sex.
It was it was the feeling oflove.

SPEAKER_02 (16:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (16:26):
So I rinsed and repeat, rinsed and repeat person
after person didn't care.
I wasn't malicious.
Right.
Because what my go to was Ididn't make you do anything.
Right.
Like I didn't make

SPEAKER_01 (16:39):
you do anything.
That was the irrationalrationalization for what you
were doing.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (16:44):
Even with intimacy.
If I create a stage that turnsyou on.
Right.
And then you then become theinitiator.
I didn't do anything.
You initiated it.
Everybody got choices.
You don't want to ask me for it.

SPEAKER_01 (16:57):
You know, something my father told me growing up as
a young girl and.
And, you know, when you'refeeling fresh and, you know, you
see boys and boys see you andyou're navigating those things
for the first time.
He always told me, don't putyourself in compromising
positions where you have to nowbattle your chemistry, your

(17:20):
chemical reactions, overridingyour logic, that emotion.
We start operating in thefeeling, you know what I'm
saying?
We lose all sense.
It's kind of like a possessionin a sense.
Especially when you think aboutintimacy and your Netflix and
chill sitting on the couch andall it takes is a touch.
All it takes is a kiss.
All it takes is a rub.

(17:41):
And then, you know, the nextthing you're doing, you're
manipulating.
You're using that and theiremotions, their chemistry
against them.

SPEAKER_03 (17:50):
What I found out in hindsight as I became a coach
was I was picking specificpeople during this time.
I was picking people that I knewwere broken.
I was picking people that hadthe most desperation, the lowest
self-esteem.
They're very easy to pick outbecause of Yes.

(18:12):
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.

(18:40):
I can't

SPEAKER_01 (18:43):
imagine what that did to you spiritually as a man.

SPEAKER_03 (18:47):
It destroys you on the inside.

SPEAKER_01 (18:48):
Eventually, I'm sure you fell in love and you're
carrying all that.

SPEAKER_03 (18:52):
Of course.
But here's the thing.
Here's the thing.
You fall in love, but they'llnever get all of you because
you're still being cautious, butyou're also trying to show up,
but they never get what theyshould get from you.
Yeah.
Because what you have to do forthem pales in comparison to to
what you really have to offer,but they're okay with the little
piece.

(19:13):
Pieces.
They're happy with getting 50%of you because they think that
it's 100 and they're like, cool.

SPEAKER_01 (19:20):
Exactly.
Because your

SPEAKER_03 (19:20):
50% is probably better than all of the other men
that broke them before you.
So you look like a superhero nowand you're like, you...
You're not getting all of itbecause I'm afraid to give you
my all.
They're like, you know,subconsciously, they're like,
this is all I need because thisis better than nothing.
Let me

SPEAKER_01 (19:35):
take care of it.
And generationally, especiallyBlack women and what we've seen
over time historically inrelationships where people stay
together.
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
People want to focus on thepeople that stayed together back
in the day.
Yeah.
We don't know what it took forthem to stay together.
And Black women were oftenliving life thinking that a

(19:56):
piece of a man is better than noman at

SPEAKER_03 (20:00):
all.
I've heard it many times fromwomen that they would rather
have a piece of what they thinkis a good man than have nothing
at all.
And that is a recipe fordisaster.

SPEAKER_01 (20:08):
It really is.

SPEAKER_03 (20:09):
You deserve the whole cake.

SPEAKER_01 (20:11):
Right.
That too.
How did you break away?
How did you find yourselfbreaking away from that
villainous role you wereplaying?
What

SPEAKER_03 (20:18):
happened...
is I wasn't your typical quoteunquote villain.
I was a nice guy playing avillain.
So I knew how to dip into eachside so that it would look
sincere.
Right.
Because the villain onlyrepresented itself to feed the
need from the trauma.
And this is the story of a lotof men and women.

(20:40):
You show up in your life.
Amazing.
But in the areas where you'refeeding the trauma, You got to
be a little bit of a monster toget it right.
Right.
So the monster isn't alwaysfront facing.
So the person that you'redealing with, they think that
they have this amazing son, thiscommunity leader, this all of
these things.
And they're like, there's no waythey could be like that.
So for me, coming from a placeof innocence, they would never

(21:04):
tell because there was nothingegregious or like abusive about
the nature.
It was very loving.
It was very there was no angry,none of that.
So you would be like, this feelsamazing.
The problem with it is that Iwent into it not looking for a
wife, but because I'm finding abroken person that needs love,

(21:26):
they think it's going to be ahusband, even if I don't say so.
So they're falling in love inseven days and I'm getting all
of the love and all of theattention and the hugs that I've
missed when I was a kid.
And I was like, this is amazinguntil it gets too close.
And then you're like, now yougot to ghost them.
You got to be like, Hey, thisain't working out for me.

SPEAKER_01 (21:46):
It's not you.
It's me.
You got to do all of

SPEAKER_03 (21:49):
that.
So, so to answer your question,The irony of the timing is that
this happened mid 90s.
So we're talking about Internet.
We're talking about onlinedating, Yahoo personals, chat
lines, AOL.

SPEAKER_01 (22:05):
Nice, then opened up for you.

SPEAKER_03 (22:07):
So I'm able to meet an unlimited amount of people to
validate me.
So we're talking about hundredsof interactions.

SPEAKER_01 (22:15):
Right.
The options.

SPEAKER_03 (22:17):
Yeah.
Because this was a time wherepeople weren't like, oh, people
on the Internet are crazy.
People was coming outside tomeet you.
So

SPEAKER_01 (22:24):
we were parking lot pimping.
I was able to.

SPEAKER_03 (22:26):
Oh, my.
Tell me about

SPEAKER_01 (22:27):
it.
Let's not talk about the parkinglot pimping.

SPEAKER_03 (22:30):
We're not even going to go

SPEAKER_01 (22:31):
with.

SPEAKER_03 (22:32):
Yeah.
I had a lot of parking lotmeetups.
Yes.
A ton.
Because I was obsessed with.
the connectivity, becauseremember I'm introverted, shy
person.
And people was like, I think youcute.
And I'm like me.
So everybody who wanted to dateme got a date.
Right.
So I'm rinsing and ripping.
So I fed up the process by this.

(22:52):
And I had so many, many, youknow, meet you one time and
never see you again.
And I had a lot of these.
And so what this did for mesubconsciously, is it started to
hone a skill because now all ofthe things that I learned about
human behavior, I got to test itout times a hundred.
Right, right.
Now you're talking about someonewho can look at the average

(23:14):
person and I can kind of catalogthings now because I've had so
many case studies, if you will,

SPEAKER_01 (23:19):
right?
Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 (23:20):
So now I'm like, okay, I've done this.
But am I happy?
Is there happiness at the end ofthis behavior?

SPEAKER_00 (23:26):
It

SPEAKER_03 (23:27):
took me a long time to get there because that trauma
was leading the charge.
And what it is, it's almost kindof like a duality in your
personality.
It's like the person that yourparents raised are looking at
you like an out-of-bodyexperience.
Like, is this who you are?
Is this who you were raised tobe?
And are you happy?
I

SPEAKER_01 (23:43):
think we forget we're multifaceted.
We're not just one thing.
We're not linear.

SPEAKER_03 (23:48):
And the way that I explain it to my clients is when
you have a trauma, when thatinner child is picking your
dates for you, it's almost likethat part of your personality is
separate from you.
the other side of you that knowswhat to do

SPEAKER_01 (24:01):
yeah that makes sense and it overrides

SPEAKER_03 (24:04):
right and so it overrides you because of the
trauma because it's been withyou forever and it's it's a part
of your nature and who you areuntil you learn how to manage it
better right right so when I hadthat kind of out-of-body
experience and I'm looking atmyself doing this stuff and I'm
like Dude, you can't even sit athome on a Friday by yourself
without having to jump up and goto the club and get another

(24:25):
phone number.
Like you can't even be byyourself for a weekend.
Like this is almost like anaddiction because you need to
keep feeding it.
Right.
And I said, I am not happy.
Yeah.
But it's like it's on autopilot.
So I was like, you have to stop.
Like at this point, I didn'tknow it was a healing journey.
I just knew that this was notbecause here's the thing.

(24:45):
Here's the sick part of it.
Right.
I had to inadvertently hurtpeople.
while also being an

SPEAKER_01 (24:51):
empath.
And that's hurtful.
And

SPEAKER_03 (24:53):
then I had to do it again.

SPEAKER_01 (24:54):
It goes against your spirit.
You know, that transference, itsits there.

SPEAKER_03 (24:58):
You have to absorb their pain on the way out.
And then you've got to go do itagain because you're hungry for
the connection and you've got tokeep doing it again.
And you carry all of that withyou.
And that's why I was like, I'mnot happy.
Like, this is really destroyingme.
And I'm the one that's doingthis stuff.
It's destroying me too.
And so I said, you know, I'mgoing to have to like really
This is where the sit down andheal comes from.

(25:20):
I had to sit down.
And even when Friday night cameand I started shaking, stay
home.
Don't go outside.
You got to just be still andreally figure out what's going
on.
And that's when I really startedlooking at my life, looking at
the behaviors and trying tofigure out how do I emerge
better.

(25:40):
And I really got to a pointwhere I was like, not only do
you have to stop, but you haveto create boundaries because you
have an appetite for certainthings.
Even if it's just emotionally,like you gotta be able to tell
yourself and or the person no.
And I got to a point where I waslike, okay, I think I'm better
now.
I understand myself a littlemore.

(26:01):
And there's certain things thatI just can't do.
And so the next time I startedgoing out, here comes
temptation.
Temptation's like, hey, I knowyou like a certain skin color.
You like them to be a certainweight.
That's the one that's going tosit next to you at the bar,
smiling like,

SPEAKER_01 (26:16):
hi.
It's like the car you want tobuy.
You start seeing it everywhereall of a sudden.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (26:20):
So I was like, somebody's testing me.
And I was like, you know what?
Here's the time to kind of putup or shut up.
When those opportunities came, Iwas just like, no.
Because even dialoguing withsomebody, a little bit of
dialogue, sometimes you couldtell like, yeah, this one right
here is going to be blowing upmy phone next week.
No, I'm not.
And

SPEAKER_01 (26:41):
you have to be careful just knowing who you

SPEAKER_03 (26:44):
are,

SPEAKER_01 (26:45):
especially as a wordsmith and you know how words
hold power.
You know, even if the worlddon't, you know how you can use
your words well we can call itwhat it is to finesse to
manipulate to influence peopleto go in the direction that you
want to go just simply with afew words yeah with that kind of
power you do you have to becognizant of what you're telling

(27:08):
women what you're what you'resaying to them because honey
they listening like you said notat your actions they listening
to your words

SPEAKER_03 (27:16):
yeah I got to understand the power of no.
Even as a man, we know mennormally don't really have a
whole bunch of boundaries whenit comes to that.
So for me to say no as a man washard in the face of these things
and even with being intimate orhaving relations, when you
detach yourself from it, yourealize mentally and physically

(27:39):
that it's not a need.
And when you realize that it'snot a need, then it does not
become part of your motivatingfactors when you're outside.
And it's easier to say no onceyou have detached hints to sit
down and heal.
Like you got to sit down andbreathe and figure out how to
detox yourself from thebehavior.
You can't just stop it today andtomorrow.

(28:00):
Because I always coach peopleit's mostly women because men
don't ask for help.
They be getting better at it.
So they would come and be like,I broke up with my boyfriend and
I've detached from him and I'vedone the whole, you know, no
contact and all

SPEAKER_00 (28:13):
of that.

SPEAKER_03 (28:14):
But I just can't be by myself.
I need somebody.
And I'm like, you don't needanyone.
This is still fresh.
Like you still going to havethose withdrawals.
But if you push through them,your decision-making ability
increases to give you somethingthat's a more logical decision.
And so when I did that and I wasable to say no, and I'm patting

(28:35):
myself on the back, like, dude,you know, you, you probably
would have talked to that one,but cause now I'm able to see
the potential of what it couldbe.
Yeah.
This one, this one got somethings going on that I'm not
willing to, They be, you know,trying to come to, can I come to
your house?
I don't know you.
You see

SPEAKER_01 (28:51):
the red flags in them ahead of time and can avoid
the future drama.
You

SPEAKER_03 (28:55):
start to see the world differently when you have
more healed eyes and ears.
The sense is changing.
And when I did that, I was like,wow, like this sitting down and
working on yourself works.
And I didn't know that it wouldin the future become the basis
of how I help other people heal.

SPEAKER_01 (29:12):
Man, that's a beautiful thing.
That's a beautiful thing initself.

SPEAKER_03 (29:16):
Yeah.
So when I got to the other side,of course, you know, you get you
still want to have triggers andbeing tempted and all of this,
but you're in a way betterspace.
And when I got to the space of alot of those toxic behaviors,
not even being a part of mythought process, not even
prompting the behavior anymore.

(29:38):
And I was at peace.
That's when I met my wife.
my now wife.

SPEAKER_01 (29:41):
Wow.
Before I step into that, youknow, we're talking a lot about
love, but before we go anyfurther, I want to pause right
here and ask you something thatseems simple, but really isn't.
What is love to you?
Not what we've been taught, notthe means or the quotes or the
buzzwords, but in your ownwords, how do you define love

(30:03):
based on what you've lived, whatyou've lost and what you've
healed?

SPEAKER_03 (30:08):
This is a good question.
So I'm going to answer it withDerek's definition.

SPEAKER_01 (30:13):
It's so nuanced, so nuanced.

SPEAKER_03 (30:16):
Yeah, there's nuances depending on the
individual.
I know we try to put it in abox, but I think what I have
learned and what it means to meis choosing it daily.
It's not always going to be a 10level.
Right.
Although people believe thatthat's how it should be.
Yes.
It's constant, but itfluctuates, right?

SPEAKER_02 (30:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (30:38):
And I think that choosing it means that all of
the minutia of the other thingsthat happen in a relationship
have to be working in concert,like even during conflict, even
doing the I don't like you days.
Right.
That there is resolve.
Right.
There is commonality.
There's the love to meencompasses all of the things

(31:00):
that have to work together inorder to keep that love going,
even if that love is a five thisweek.
It's still there.
It's not going anywhere.
Right.
The actions that come along withit.
It's a symbiotic relationshipbetween the two things.
They have to be presentsimultaneously.
Right.
Right.
Good or bad.
The actions, the feelings, thedepth of it.

(31:23):
Because without the actions, youjust have emotion.
Right.
And you don't want to have arelationship that's solely based
on emotion.
We've seen this happen too,right?
Yeah.
And this is why people say loveisn't enough to sustain a
relationship.
It's true.
It is.
You need both in order tosustain long term because it's
not always going to be a 10.

(31:44):
And when it's not a 10, whatelse do you have foundationally
to keep it going?
Right.
And that's the respect.
That's the all the other thingsthat happen, you know, the love
languages and all of that,right?
Yeah.
We can talk about love languageswithout talking about
overarching love.
Right.
What am I going to make you feelsafe?
What am I doing?
Now we're under the umbrella.

(32:05):
If that stuff isn't present, theoverarching love means nothing.

SPEAKER_01 (32:09):
Exactly.
Because everybody's out heretalking about love.
But what I've found is mostpeople can't even define it for
themselves.
We confuse love with need, withcontrol, with pain, with
attachment.
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (32:20):
Some people lose all of it, but stay in a
relationship.
That's dangerous, right?
It's not just the feeling, theactions that come along with it.
It's a symbiotic relationshipbetween the two things.
They have to be presentsimultaneously, good or bad, the
actions, the feelings, the depthof it.
Because without the actions, youjust have emotion.

SPEAKER_02 (32:44):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (32:44):
You don't want to have a relationship that's
solely based on emotion.
We've seen this happen, too.
Right.
Right.
And this is why people say loveisn't enough to sustain a
relationship.
It's true.

SPEAKER_02 (32:55):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (32:56):
So you need both in order to sustain long term
because it is not always goingto be a 10.
And when it's not a 10, whatelse do you have foundationally
to keep it going?
And that's the respect.
That's the.
all the other things thathappen, you know, the love
languages and all of that,right?
Yeah.
We can talk about love languageswithout talking about The

(33:18):
overarching love.

SPEAKER_02 (33:19):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (33:20):
What am I going to make you feel safe?
What am I doing?
Right.
Now we're under the umbrella.
If that stuff isn't present, theoverarching love means nothing.

SPEAKER_01 (33:28):
Yeah, exactly.
Because everybody's out heretalking about love.
But what I found is most peoplecan't even define it for
themselves.
We confuse love with need, withcontrol, with pain, with
attachment.
Yeah.
I want to know how has yourdefinition, Derek's definition
of love changed as you've grown?
Like, I know you don't look atlove the way that you used to,

(33:49):
and I'm sure you see itdifferently now.

SPEAKER_03 (33:52):
So in the past, I thought of it as emotion only.

SPEAKER_00 (33:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (33:56):
Right.
And because, again, rememberwhere I come from.
The emotion is bigger to me.
Yeah.
The emotional attachment isbigger to me because of the lack
of it growing up.
So I took the emotionalattachment as 90 percent of.
What would be love or evenconnected in a relationship and
the rest of it, we just figureout.
But now today it's differentbecause now I have proof of

(34:21):
concept because we're going on16 years married now.
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (34:25):
That's beautiful.
Look at you.
The nice villain.
16 years in the game.

SPEAKER_03 (34:30):
The daily stuff.

SPEAKER_01 (34:31):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (34:32):
Yeah.
The daily stuff.
means a lot.
So if you're not able tofunction through that, then
forget the emotional stuff.
We ain't even going to be here.
Right?
That's why now I say they haveto work in concert because even
just conflict itself can bringlife or death into a

(34:53):
relationship depending on howyou use it and so what I do as a
healing journey coach is I helppeople understand why they show
up even there the way that theydo and a lot of times it has
nothing to do with the partnerin front of you it has to do
with something that's been inyou before you met them so like
if you're and this is what Ialways like to illustrate to

(35:14):
people because it's my story toobut it's a lot of people's story
You normally have one partnerthat wants to resolve now.
Right.
Then you have another partnerthat needs time.

SPEAKER_02 (35:22):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (35:23):
If these two people don't understand each other,
they will fight forever.

SPEAKER_01 (35:26):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (35:26):
And then when you do the deeper work, you find out
that one of them has an anxiousattachment style, one of them
has an avoidant, and they alwaysend up finding each other.
But the lesson that it is, isthat the universe, God, whoever
you want to call it, right?
They put people together thatare uniquely different.
designed to trigger you intogrowth.

(35:47):
But if you do not understandthat that's what it's for, you
will take it as an offense andyou will fight.

SPEAKER_01 (35:53):
Right.
And you missed that growthlesson and that blessing.

SPEAKER_03 (35:57):
Because I took the need for her to take time as
abandonment.
And it would piss me off becauseI'm like, so you don't want to
solve it now?
Right.
And she's like, no, I need timebefore I could come back to
speak to you logically and not.
And I should be like runningafter her.
Like, where are you going?
And she's like, you're making itworse.

SPEAKER_01 (36:16):
And then it becomes about everything else and not
about what it was originallyabout.
Now you start unpacking andnitpicking and it's death by a
thousand cuts and we're nevereven getting to the most
egregious

SPEAKER_03 (36:28):
wound.
And then you carry it becausemost people, especially men,
aren't going to tell you thathurt me.
You're just going to be like,you know what, you got it.
And you're going to carry thatfor so long that then you're
going to have to find somehow ato cope with the feeling and
it's not going to be inside yourhouse.
That's why I'm like, now when Italk to people, I'm like, wait,
wait, wait, you got to knowbecause I know where this goes.

(36:50):
That resentment runs deep.

SPEAKER_01 (36:52):
It does.

SPEAKER_03 (36:52):
It's self-imposed.

SPEAKER_01 (36:53):
It is.

SPEAKER_03 (36:54):
Right?
Because I'm choosing not tospeak up for myself.
Right.
So the other person doesn't evenknow that I'm hurt.

SPEAKER_01 (36:59):
Right.
But we expect them to know andexpect them to see why through
our actions, through oursilence, the silent treatment,
through holding your affectionhostage and not giving it you
know, that love and affectionthat most men, you know, love
that physical touch, need thatphysical touch like you once did
and you were missing.
A lot of boys didn't get thosehealthy models of love or

(37:21):
affection growing up.
I got girls who are, I'm so uberaffectionate and sometimes, you
know, curse myself like, why?
Why did you create suchaffectionate children?
Because now you're sending theminto the world that's
affectionless.
You know, and I worry about themlooking for that connection
looking as a woman looking forthat affection and man that

(37:44):
opens these are why theseconversations are important and
so nuanced because I have somuch I want to unpack and it is
still never be enough becauseeven then you have the nuances
of that how you can even takethat alone and have a whole
conversation about black womenlooking for love and the fathers
that they didn't have or thefathers that they did have or
the men looking for the type ofmoms that they have whether they

(38:05):
were toxic or whether they weregood or a lot of men were raised
by their grandmothers that's awhole conversation by itself.
I find men who are raised bytheir grandmothers come out a
little differently, too, whenthey come into adulthood.
It is so, so, so much.
I'm going to tell you mydefinition of love, and I want
you to tell me how you feelabout it.
My definition of love is justone word, agape.

(38:29):
And I feel like love startsthere.
That is the whole source.
If it's not agape, is it reallylove?
How can people who've neverexperienced Agape love.
And when I say my definition foragape love is just that love
that we give without conditions,without judgment, that's just

(38:52):
pure, that you're doing itsolely out the service to see
people smile, to uplift them, tobuild them, to help them, just
to be a service of human becauseyou simply love love.
For those who are spiritual andbelieve in the word of God, it
tells you your greatestcommandments is to love God and
to love your neighbor.
Right.
Period.

(39:12):
If you take everything out ofthe Bible and you're just left
with that, what does that tellyou?
How you love God's people is adirect manifestation of how you
say you love God.
And how can you really love Godif you don't love his people?
And yeah, that's just how Ileave it.
So how I love on people is how Ishow not only love for my

(39:34):
creator, but love for the worldthat we live in.
I don't know if that's a goodthing or...
Or bathing.
But that's that's how I treatlove.

SPEAKER_03 (39:43):
I'm going to tell you how I see it from what you
said.

SPEAKER_01 (39:45):
Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_03 (39:46):
Your definition of it is correct, but it is very
rarely practiced.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (39:52):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (39:53):
It's a very small percentage of the population who
loves that way.
Right.
And mostly because of trauma.

SPEAKER_02 (39:59):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (40:00):
Right.
The trauma blocks the abilityfor people to really be free to
love in that way.
And a lot of people'smotivations, even to even use
the word love, come from a placeof manipulation.
And we're not talking about badpeople.
Right.
If I am greedy for affection.
Right.
Let's say I'm a people pleaser.
I'm a people pleaser.
Right.
So when I meet someone, I'mgoing to do things for you, for

(40:23):
me to feel better about myself.
It's not even a genuine love.
It's really transactional.
But to the person, it feels likelove.
They want to say, I loveeverything that I am.
But you're really.
loving them from a place oftrauma where you feel like you
have to overdo just to keepthem.

SPEAKER_01 (40:40):
Right.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 (40:41):
And that isn't It's not a reciprocal type of
situation.
So that's why like this wholething of even therapy and just
trying to figure out the why.
Like even if you took therapyout, just be curious about why
you behave the way you do.
Most people don't do that.

SPEAKER_01 (40:54):
Right.
Because that's self-reflection.
That's looking inward and scaryin there.

SPEAKER_03 (40:59):
So now you have most people don't do this because
they have created a life thatfunctions in society, whether
it's healthy or not.
You wake up and you go to work.
You take care of your kids andyou're functioning, but you're
really not looking at yourhigher self.
You're really not looking at howyou connect with people.
You just worrying about gettingout of survival mode.
Right.
This is mostly the country.

(41:19):
So when you talk about agapetype of a love, people don't
even make time to even feelthat.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (41:24):
Yeah.
It's

SPEAKER_03 (41:25):
unfortunate.

SPEAKER_01 (41:26):
How do people recognize the difference between
agape love and people who are,like you said, just using that
to heal something inside ofthem, that people pleasing
thing?
Because, you know, at the end ofthe day, I feel like that's
exactly what's missing in theworld is simply love.
People, the definition isobscure, is nuanced for people.

(41:47):
People look at love differently.
I mean, there's so much thatcomes under that umbrella.

SPEAKER_03 (41:51):
Well, you know, it's unfortunate that we, society,
has so many, so muchconditioning, so many
experiences that we have,whether it's childhood, whether
it's friends, whether it'schurch, whatever it is in your
life that builds you into whoyou are.
There's so much in there thatcreates you.
that sometimes people get solost in that that they don't

(42:14):
even look for the agape love.
They feel like their functioninglife, even if it's
dysfunctional, is what life issupposed to be because they
don't have anything else modeledfor them.
And that's why your podcast, myshow, and people who are willing
to hoist, whoever's willing tobe hoisted up on their shoulders
and say, hey, you can bedifferent.

(42:35):
This is an example of how.
And then a lot of times, evenwith me, with men, When they see
me be vulnerable, then they'relike, maybe I can too.
Right.
But if you don't have peoplethat are willing to be some type
of an example to give you sometype of hope.

SPEAKER_01 (42:49):
Give them those tools in the toolbox you
mentioned.

SPEAKER_03 (42:52):
Yeah.
So it's a tough world.
But what I tell the people undermy covering as a coach, my
folks, when they graduate frommy system, the eyes and the ears
that they have are more healed.
Yeah.
And they will not allow peoplein their energetic space that
does not belong.
Yeah.
And so what that does is iflet's say they're single and

(43:13):
they're looking for theirpartner, their life partner,
they're more apt to meet anotherperson who has worked on
themselves because they knowwhat the other thing looks like
more than they ever have, whichmeans the type of love that you
are talking about increases forthem to find because a healed
person can find another healedperson.

SPEAKER_01 (43:33):
Right.
Energy is everything.

SPEAKER_03 (43:35):
Yeah.
Without that.
You will keep picking the heelperson if they don't use the
tools.
A

SPEAKER_01 (43:41):
cycle.

SPEAKER_03 (43:41):
They will still be attracted to the same thing and
they'll go over there.
And that's why the wholeboundaries and all of this thing
is very important.
Right.
And most of the people that cometo me in this state, I tell them
you're under my covering now.
And as your coach, you are notallowed to go date anyone until
I tell you you can go backoutside.

SPEAKER_01 (43:58):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (44:00):
And you know why I do that?
You got to sit down, right?
And they're like, can I justhave a friend?
Can I just somebody who's in myDMs?
No.
Don't talk to nobody until youknow.
And they're like, they get madat me.
And I'm like, no, you cannot.
Your body and your mind aretrained to desire this.
It's not working for you.
And the reason why I can tellthem this with a certainty is

(44:20):
because I was the dude thatyou're afraid of.
Like I understand what thatperson would see in you.
So let's say you take five of myworkshops and you're like, okay,
coach, I took the workshops andI think I'm ready.
If I smell it on you, just likeI would if I was outside
analyzing behavior, I'm going totell you, you're not ready yet.
If I can smell it, they willtoo.

(44:43):
Because I was a damn good onebecause of this mind my mama
made me have.
I was able to pick out thelittle crumbs of the cookie.
Like, wait, no, she said thatone word.
Like, so if I see that in youand you're under my covering,
you're not ready yet.
So I have people that havegraduated my system where they
will unapologetically tell you,that they are good.

SPEAKER_00 (45:03):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (45:03):
They be talking about going on solo trips and
doing all this stuff and I'm notafraid to do this and I'm like,
that's the whole point.
Exactly.
Be okay by yourself so you don'thave a need to give people
control of your self-worth andyour self-esteem because you
don't have it.

SPEAKER_01 (45:17):
Right.
Right.
I appreciate you for thatinsight.
I ask all this Because I believein love.
Real love is missing.
It's been mutated, especially inour community.
When you look at how love showsup in Black families, Black
partnerships, Black spaces, whatdo you see that's been passed
down that maybe we neverquestioned?

(45:39):
Like the patterns.
What patterns do you notice thataren't love, but we've been
calling it that?
I

SPEAKER_03 (45:46):
think that when you talk about Black love, love and
the things that have been passeddown, I think the unfortunate
tragedy is that and I don't liketo be the guy to be like, oh,
the government did this or that.

SPEAKER_01 (46:00):
No, but it's valid.
It's a valid conversation.

SPEAKER_03 (46:03):
It's a part of it, but I like to look deeper.

SPEAKER_01 (46:06):
Right.
You have to get to the root ofthings in order to.

SPEAKER_03 (46:10):
Yeah, so what I typically see as a pattern is
that by however it happened,right, you have generation or
two where the Black man, bywhatever struggle, whatever you
want to call it, had beenconditioned, whether
self-imposed or not, Right.
Of course.

(46:43):
Right.
or some men who treat you in anabusive way or treat you like
you're not even human becausewe're conditioned to acquire
you, not love you, right?
So when you take generations ofthis, you give birth to a

(47:04):
population of women that say,men ain't bleep.
Get it by yourself.
We don't need them for anything.
It disrupts everythingenergetically.
And you can't fully blame womenYou can't fully blame men, but
the minutiae between it createschaos because now the natural
order has been destroyed.
And so when you have women,women are human.

(47:27):
So you ultimately, no matterwhat comes out your mouth, you
really want and desire to havesomeone to have your back, to
love you and all these things.
But your defense mechanisms areso high that now even a man who
is willing to give you that,you're going to push him away
because you have to defendyourself.
Right.
Right.

(48:01):
whatever superhero you need tobe.
And you got to show up in yourrelationships and be demure and
be this and be that.
It's hard for one human to doall of that.
And so when you have thatsentiment, you may have a man
that say, why aren't you softer?
Why aren't you?
And she's looking at you like,do you see what I'm doing?
When you do all of that, It'shard to breathe and be agape

(48:25):
love.
Right.
You got all of this.
And so it's hard to carry justthe relationship stuff on top of
the contention between black menand black women and deal with
the world to be parents.
Yes.
Yeah.
It's tough.
It's tough for both.

SPEAKER_01 (48:41):
And it feels impossible sometimes.
And people give up because ofthat.

SPEAKER_03 (48:46):
Yeah.
And then which happens as ahuman.
You're the hero in your story.
So who are you going to blame?
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (48:51):
That's true.

SPEAKER_03 (48:52):
Now you have all of these live streams going back
and forth, going crazy on eachother, trying to figure out
who's wrong and who's rightinstead of trying to figure out
how we fix it.
And that is also a problembecause a human and it doesn't
necessarily have to be racespecific, but you want to find a
reason why you're in theposition you're in.
And most of us don't want tolook at ourselves.
So.
We're going to fight the personin front of us.

SPEAKER_01 (49:13):
Right.
How do we entangle all of that?
That generational stuff, thewounds, those patterns, that
survival mode love that startsshowing up in our relationships
because it always does.

SPEAKER_03 (49:25):
Yeah, it's it's a lot.
It's a lot to digest.
But I think that we see pocketsof hope.
We don't see a community ofhope, but we see pockets of
hope.
Like you're part of the pocket.
I'm a part of pocket inchampioning love.
genuine agape love is the goal,right?
Even if we don't achieve it allthe way, but we want that.

(49:46):
I think a lot of it comes frompeople seeing other people like
yourself, myself, and a lot ofothers not being afraid to speak
about it instead of justexisting in it to say, hey,
here's something different.
We got to look at ourselves alittle bit.
And then when you actually, whatI try to do, and even what I've
done on this podcast today, isto be unapologetically

(50:08):
vulnerable about my experienceso that when I tell it, then
people can say me too.
And if they can say me too, thenwe are now connected in that
way.
And you can also possibly seethat there's a way out because I
found a way out.
You understand?
So it's like people givethemselves permission to be

(50:28):
vulnerable when they feel likeit's safe to be so.
And so I provide a platformwhere Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(50:55):
Yes, I don't experience yourlife as a woman.
I'll never know what it feelslike, but I know what pain feels
like.
Right.
I know emotion.
I know devastation.
And so I connect with them thereand then we can talk about the
rest of the stuff on the backend.
But that's how I connect withpeople because to be a light for
someone who may be in despairright now, it happens.

SPEAKER_01 (51:15):
Yes.
Yes.
I say it too often.
And you just mentioned that justwomen and what you help them
with.
I want to pivot there real quickbecause what I find to be just
in my Yeah.
Yeah.

(51:44):
Hold it in no matter what.
That once again, a piece of aman is better than no man in awe
or love who loves you, even ifthat love is toxic.
On the flip side, I see a lot ofblack men who expect their
partners to be their healer,their therapist, their emotional
translator, their peace.
I hear that.
Be my peace.

(52:04):
Instead of doing the workthemselves and learning that in
order to receive peace from awoman, you yourself have to be
peaceful.
Yeah.
Why do you think so many of usget caught up in the role of
fixer in relationships?
Is it love?
Is it control?
Or is it conditioning?

SPEAKER_03 (52:20):
Here's the sentiment, right?
And the overarching thing ofwhat I'm about to say is we had
a period of time where thingswere one way.
Now things are different.
And so we're in a period ofcorrection.
That's why everybody's fightingeach other, right?
So what tends to happen is,generally speaking, women tend
to be more nurturing than men,right?

(52:41):
A nurturer is a problem solver,a fixer by nature, whether a man
is present or not.
So when you enter in a man, aman who has not worked on
anything, he shows up as brokenbecause you're going to see his
outbursts.
You're going to see him not beable to handle things and keep

(53:02):
it in.
Women, you always see thepattern changes.
You always see where the issuesare, because that's a part of
who you are naturally.
Right.
As you solve these problems ofemotion, you solve these
problems of nurturing andcoddling and making sure because
it's part of your nature.
Right.
So you're naturally going towant to do this for the person
that you love the most.

(53:22):
Right.
The problem is, is that theperson that you love the most
don't even know what that feellike.
There's nothing wrong with me.
Stop.
Leave me alone.
What's wrong with

SPEAKER_01 (53:32):
you?
It's just the way I am.
Take it or leave

SPEAKER_03 (53:34):
it.
We've been trained to not do itwhere you...
You don't even have to have itmodeled for you.
It's innate for you to nurture.
Right.
Right.
So you're going to see a lot ofwomen who fix, who want to fix.
There's a guy sleeping on yourcouch.
I

SPEAKER_01 (53:49):
call him the Bob, the builder.

SPEAKER_03 (53:51):
Yeah.
You got that.
You got the hobo sexual sittingon your couch, not paying no
bills because you hoping thatthey're going to become
something greater.
and you will destroy yourself.

SPEAKER_01 (54:01):
Right.
And before you even go to thosemen, because the offshoot of
that, Derek, is once you buildthem up, now you're no longer,
you know what I'm saying?
You no longer fit into what youcreated because while you were
busy fixing them, you were nevergrowing with them.
You weren't even fixing yourselfand working on those things that
you needed to work on.

SPEAKER_03 (54:21):
You're actually deteriorating from where you
were in the beginning.
So it definitely will be unequalat this point, right?
And so they're always surprisedwhen he moves on and I'm like...

SPEAKER_01 (54:31):
You left me for...

SPEAKER_03 (54:35):
Y'all don't match anymore.
Don't get me started.
So now when you talk about menand the man's quest for what you
said was correct, they'relooking for a therapist.
They're looking for somebody tohelp keep them calm because the
trauma is so high, right?
And it's unresolved.
So they're thinking that if youare a person who doesn't give
them any pushback, who lets themkind of just be That's peace to

(55:00):
them.
Right.
Quiet.
Just leave me alone.
And if you do that, then we'llbe OK.
But that doesn't solve anything.
Right.
And so now the correction is, isthat we know that men need to
meet you in the middle.
Right.
And it's hard for a lot of menbecause this is not how we were
trained.
This is not our conditioning.

(55:20):
We've never seen men go totherapy.
We've never seen men say, youknow what?
I'm depressed right now.
And I don't know if I could takethe trash out tomorrow because I
need to sit down.
You're not going to get up.
You're not going to get thatfrom a lot of men.
But women are screaming for it.
Like if you just meet me here,I'm still going to be nurturing.
But at least I know what tonurture.

(55:41):
At least I know because now I'mgoing to come at you wrong
because I don't know.
I'm going to be like, why aren'tyou talking to me?
What?
What?
What?
And he's like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Now I ain't going to never talk.
So it's that it's all of that.
Right.
So it's it's very.
unfortunate because there was atime in history where men could
be like this and it was OK.

SPEAKER_01 (56:02):
Right.
Right.
And they could go to their queenand discuss.
Exactly.
And they value their insight.
You know, the wisdom.
They knew that if I come to youwith something, you're going to
help navigate and coursecorrect.
I could trust your coursecorrection.

SPEAKER_03 (56:17):
And so now that women don't have to depend on
men financially, there's an openspace of I don't need.
I want you.
I want us to build together, butI don't need you for that.
So now what's left?
All the emotional stuff, theminutia that I talked about,
about love and then all of thatstuff now is more important.
And the man is like, what youtalking about?

(56:37):
Wait, I got to do that too now?
I just can't pay the bill?
Right.
I'm a man.
Oh my God, I have to nowemotionally connect with you?
I don't know how to do that.
Right.
And so it becomes this thingwhere now if a man says, I can't
do that, then he's like, well...
I'm not that's not what I'msupposed to be.
So you're the problem.
Right.

(56:57):
You're the one who made meupset.
And the woman is like, no,because you're not emotionally
intelligent.
She's like, you're the problem.
And so now everybody's just likenot trying to bend.
Yeah.
To meet in the middle with thisnew what they call modern era
that we're in.
Right.
They don't want to.
adapt to the changes, eventhough we adapt to the changes
everywhere else in our lives.

(57:19):
Yeah.
This is the one place where weputting our toes, two toes down.
Stay stuck.
I ain't gonna change.
But everything around us isevolving.
Right.
Even how we parent our kids.
Yeah.
We can't do that like how weused to.

SPEAKER_01 (57:33):
We cannot.
These kids ain't built likethat.
Right.
So many people aretraditionalists.
They can't reconcile that theworld will never be the same
again.
That each generation, eachcentury, each timeline feels the
same, but it looks different.
And we have to be able to...
Like you said, adapt, keep upwith the changes in the world.

(57:56):
And we have to restructure ourperspective based on the world
that we see in that and thatwe're living in.
But if you're trying to staystuck in the past and apply
things that may have worked innow, that's just not.
It's not going to happen.
The

SPEAKER_03 (58:11):
funny thing, real quick, real quick.
The funny thing about, well, notfunny, haha, but funny irony is
that you'll have a population ofwomen that will tell a man that
he has to be more vulnerable,right?
Then said man says, you knowwhat?
I'm going to start to sharemore.
Then he goes outside and he'ssharing more.
And then you have anotherpopulation of women that says

(58:31):
you ain't no real man.
Right.
Why are you being so vulnerable?
That ain't no man.

SPEAKER_01 (58:35):
Right.
Right.
You sassy.
You

SPEAKER_03 (58:38):
sensitive.
Then he's like, well, damn, Imight have to go ahead and hide
again.

SPEAKER_01 (58:43):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So

SPEAKER_03 (58:43):
it's not just men doing it to ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 (58:45):
Not at all.
There are

SPEAKER_03 (58:46):
also women who buy into that philosophy as well.
And they will push that man backdown, too.
Right.
So from a man's perspective.
You have to weigh the options ofhow you're going to be dependent
on who you with.
So the safest thing to do is tojust keep being stoic.
That way I cover all of it, butit's not healthy to do.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (59:07):
Growth is a beautiful thing.
I see nothing wrong with helpingyour people you love grow.
Nothing is wrong with that atall.
How do you know when you'retrying to help your partner grow
versus when you're carryingtheir healing for them?
Because there's a differencebetween supporting someone and
saving them.
How do we draw the line,especially when the bond is

(59:28):
deep?

SPEAKER_03 (59:29):
Well, here's the thing that most people don't
want to hear.
When you're talking abouthealing, when you're talking
about trauma, where you can seethese things.
Most of us aren't capable.
What we want to do is we want tohelp cure it, right?
We can't do that.
You can be supportive, but wecan't fix something that your
mama did to you when you was 10.

(59:50):
You can't do that.
Like this is not, Unfortunately,not our job and we are not
qualified to help them pushthrough that.
The problem is most people won'tgo seek help.
So you're stuck in a house witha person with the issues.
And so you try to like fightthrough it with them.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:04):
You can't love the healing out of a person.
You can care.
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:08):
You can support.
Right.
But once you actually realizethat it's really trauma.
then you have to understand thatit's not you that can fully fix
it.
And you can't love trauma away.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:17):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:18):
This will be trying to do is try to do extra, try to
fix, try to do

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:22):
love the hell out of them.
The literal hell out of a man.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:26):
Yeah.
Doing more does not help.
And even if it does feel like ithelps, it's really a bandaid.
It's going to keep resurfacing.
Yeah.
It's just like somebody that Italked to, they were like, You
know, they had dated this guyfor like maybe under a year and
they knew that he had angerissues.
Right.
They knew.
And so he had anger issues andthen they broke up with him

(01:00:46):
because of the issues.
Right.
Then he kind of got himselftogether.
Now, they wasn't living togetheror anything.
And he showed her better.
Right.
Right.
Until they moved in togetherbecause now he didn't have a
place to escape.
And the anger showed back up andit heightened from where it was
before until it got physical.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:06):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:06):
Because when they were living in separate houses,
he could hide it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:09):
Exactly.
So

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:10):
it never went anywhere.
No matter how much she lovedhim, no matter how much they
pretended.
Yeah.
Outside.
His crutch was that he was ableto go home and vent.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:21):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:21):
When they lived in the same house, she got to catch
all of it.
And then they ended up breakingup again because she was like,
oh, no, nobody's going to touchme.
You know, so it's like, no, it'stough when you don't know the
why.
That's why this whole platformof mine switched to this,
because if we don't tackle that,you can take what I always tell

(01:01:42):
people, you can take two things.
good people with two intentions,good intention that they will
destroy each other because thecommunication about who they are
isn't talked about.
What

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:52):
is that saying?

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:53):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:53):
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:56):
You can take good people and destroy each other
just from them being one anxiousand one avoided.
They will destroy and hate eachother in the end because they
don't understand the motivation.
What I always like to say Right.
Exactly.
Right.

(01:02:31):
you will believe that you'reright every time and you will
fight for you being right everytime and be totally wrong.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:38):
exactly.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:39):
That little kid is like, nah, we need to go.
They just yelled at us.
That's your mama.
Exactly.
You got to treat them like howyou feel.
And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa,hold on.
I didn't really raise my voice,but you perceived it as that.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:51):
Exactly.
That word choice.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:55):
When you actually parse out conflict in people,
you can literally see Thatlittle kid raising up and
getting

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:03):
triggered.
Exactly.
You can.
You can.
And it's easier to focus on thatinstead of the actual trigger.
What is actually triggering youright now?
My

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:13):
trigger in my infinite wisdom is criticism of
my character.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:17):
Yes.
I hate that too.
Because

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:19):
I still have some people pleaser in me a little
bit, right?
So I feel like I'm overdoingthings to make sure you're good.
So if you find, you know what?
You never do.
Never?
Yeah.
Whoa, whoa.
Right.
And I black out.
Look how quickly you shift.
I was like, you just said never.
That means since you met me?

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:38):
Because now we're not even getting to even the
purpose of what you were evengoing to say.
Yeah.
The root of it, the meat of it,what you do, we take those
little words out of context.
All it takes is a word, asentence.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:50):
You say never and always will always send me
somewhere.
And so I had to really, 2024, Iwas like, why is it so intense?

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:01):
Because I'm good everywhere else.
I'm a damn coach.
Like, I know these things.
Why this one thing I can'tcontrol?
And so I got into therapy justfor that alone.
I was like, I need to understandthis because I can't control it.
Right.
And I realized the therapistdoes their job, but I'm a hell
of an overthinker.
So I figured it out on my own.
Right.
I realized that as a kid, I hadto overdo things to get Mm.

(01:04:28):
And I also...
Yeah.
Right.
Right.

(01:05:00):
Right.
No way.
Just yesterday, you said that Iwas the most amazing person in
the world.
And now today I'm the devil.
How does that work?
And I will literally spend timeover explaining why I'm not that
person to the point where theother person is like, damn, OK,
I heard you.
Right.
You still nagging.
Right.
Now you're nagging.

(01:05:22):
Yeah.
So I had to.
That's something that I have toactively work on, not just.
At work, my boss used that wordone time in the middle of a
meeting with a bunch of peopleat the table.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:31):
Like, oh, hold up.
Just instant.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:33):
I'm like, I've been here 20 years and you talk about
I never do my reports right.
Hold on, sir.
Hold on.
I was like, we're not going todo that.
I said, one of our voices iselevated and one isn't.
I'm going to need you to meet mehere in front of all these
people because we're not goingto do

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:49):
that.
You're going to retract that.
And

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:52):
I'm the conflict avoider.
So this was not my character todo this out in public.
like that

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:57):
right

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:57):
but that trigger rant runs deep

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:59):
right

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:01):
I'm sorry I'm sorry

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:04):
um you are hilarious now um you made me miss my next
excuse me sir excuse me sir umthe next question now look We've
already touched on the wounds,the trauma, the fixer role.

(01:06:24):
Now it's time to talk about whenit ends and all the emotional
fallout that comes with it,especially for people who've
never been taught how to let gowithout losing themselves.
So sometimes love doesn'tsurvive the healing.
Sometimes no matter how deep theconnection is, the relationship
ends.
And that part, we don't talkabout that enough.

(01:06:46):
How do you guide people throughbreakups, especially the ones
where love was present butgrowth wasn't?
Because pain doesn't just comefrom toxic relationships.
Sometimes the most painfulbreakups are the ones where you
both meant well but couldn'tmeet each other where you needed
to be.
How do we grieve that andprocess the end of a
relationship without becomingbitter, guarded, or emotionally

(01:07:10):
shut down?

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:10):
Well, see, so the answer to that is...
It's the same answer to a lot ofthe other things we discussed is
understanding the why.
Right.
And so you peel back the layers.
Right.
There's a difference between.
And I think I might I think Imight have to do a live about
this today.

(01:07:30):
There's a difference betweenmoving on and letting go.
There are two different things.
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:35):
Right.
Definitely.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:36):
And the letting go part is difficult because.
A lot of times we are inrelationships that are based on
attachment and not alignment.
Right.
Right.
Right.
So when you attach to someonethose hooks, it's like a hook
when you fish and it has thatlittle barb thing on it.
It's hard to pull it awaybecause you spend so much time
attaching.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:57):
Sometimes it feels better just to leave it in.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:59):
This is why I love what I do.
The healing space is becauseeverything connects, right?
Yeah.
The reason why you attach comesfrom something from your
childhood.
So when you attach to someone,it's deeper than just love.
It's deeper than you just beingwith them.
It's something that you need.
Right.
Right.
Which means you're going tosacrifice parts of yourself to
achieve it.

(01:08:20):
When you stay with a person longenough and you break up, it's
not just you detaching fromlove.
You're detaching from anattachment.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:27):
Oh, you definitely need to do a live.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:30):
That's why it hurts so deep, because it's not just
you.
It's the little girl to thesuffering, because now you're
That little girl doesn't get fedto make her feel safe.
And safety isn't alwayspleasant.
Safety could be abuse, could besafe for her.
She's disconnecting from that,which she believes that she
needs in order to feel loved.

(01:08:51):
That's why it's so hard to letgo because attachment.
Because if you just lovesomebody, but they hurt you, you
can detach from them.
You're like, man, I don't wantthat hurt no more.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:00):
But when you have an attachment...
Let's talk about it.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:04):
You can't even stop thinking.
You got to call them back tomake sure that they're okay and
they're the abuser.
You don't even know how tofunction without it because of
the attachment.
That attachment is big and thatattachment goes back to whether
it's conscious or subconscious.
It's before you even met theperson.
It's why you chose them.
It's why you stayed when youknow it wasn't good.

(01:09:24):
And to your point, even if Youfeel like the relationship was
mostly good and there wasn'tanything crazy.
A lot of times your attachmentstyle still plays in.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:35):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:35):
Right.
And so let's say you amicablyfeel like you both need to part.
Well, maybe your attachmentstyle or whatever it is that
made you hook into them.
It wasn't anything crazy ornegative.
Right.
But the attachment is stillthere.
Right.
Because remember, my view is.
of what love is was there beforeI met you.

(01:09:56):
So when I meet you andeverything is pleasant, my
little kid is still happy.
Right.
Pleasant, happy.
Right.
Right.
But that doesn't mean that weare aligned.
Yeah.
You could take two people thatare wholly toxic and put them
together.
Right.
So when they break up, they'd belike, we had no issues.

(01:10:18):
We never argued.
But the toxicity, the traumabinded you.
This is how it feels.
Right.
When you are on the phone forthe first time, and let's say
you have an abandonment history,right?
You get on the phone with thisperson for three, four hours.
Y'all just going and talking.
You will get off the phone andsay,

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:38):
I

SPEAKER_03 (01:10:39):
feel like I've known you my whole life.
I think this is the person forme.
Oh my God.
And you don't have any defininginformation to support your
claim.
Nothing at all.
But you needed it so bad thatyour mind, Made it true.
That's so true.
So when you attach, even in thatmoment, you know how easy it's

(01:10:59):
going to be for that person tomanipulate you without having to
even see your face?
That

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:04):
young Derek.

SPEAKER_03 (01:11:05):
Yeah.
And so now when you get into arelationship, guess what you're
going to do?
everything you have to do tomake sure that it don't feel
like conflict.
You're going to fix it, right?
Here comes everything backagain.
Right.
You're going to try to fix it.
You're going to try to avoid theconflict so it looks like peace.
So if and when the breakuphappens, you're going to be
like, everything was cool.
No, you worked your butt off tomake it look like that.

(01:11:27):
Right.
And so now when you detach, eventhough you thought it was good,
you're still going to feel likethe same person that dealt with
verbal abuse.
You're going to still go throughthe same trauma because it was a
fake trauma Peace.
You were never at peaceinternally.
Right.
So when you break up, there's apart of you that needed it too.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:47):
Man, I love your mind.
Listening to all of this, it'sso heavy.
It

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:52):
is.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:53):
Because love isn't just emotional.
It's deeply mental.
It is.
It is.
It truly is.
And I want to take a moment hereand talk about that mental
health side of all this, thebreakups, the trauma, the
responsibility, the emotionallabor of healing in real time
with another person.
That stuff takes a toll.
But in your work, how often doyou see mental health show up as

(01:12:16):
that silent factor inrelationship struggles, not just
diagnosed issues, but thosesuppressed emotions, the
burnout, resentment, anxiety,the anxiety Abandonment wounds,
all of it.
Do you find that people evenrealize how much their mental
health is affecting the way theyshow up in love?

SPEAKER_03 (01:12:33):
They do not.
And here's why.
The reason why you don't realizeit is because you have taken
your struggle, you have takenyour trauma and you have in a
human way.
normalized it enough for you tofunction in the world and not
feel it outwardly.
Right.
And even if you do, you havecoping mechanisms like liquor or

(01:12:54):
something else to numb the pain,go to a bar on Friday.
And they're like, I'm just hereto take the edge off.
It's been a hell of a week.
Right.
Every week is a hell of a week.
That means you've got somethingyou've got to work on, bro.
Like man, every week is theworst week you ever had.
And you got to drink thisbottle.

SPEAKER_01 (01:13:08):
Man,

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:08):
something ain't right in your weeks.
Right.
Right.
Right.
But we, Like I told you earlier,because we wake up and do the
schedule, we don't have totackle the trauma because I'm
getting a paycheck every twoweeks.
I'm a great parent.
So let me, and you may not be asgreat a parent as you think you
are because I coach those kidswhen they turn 50 and I'm like,
yeah, something wasn't right.

(01:13:29):
Right.
And so most people don'tidentify with their trauma or
the issues or the mental healthaspect of it because they have
to still get up every morningand deal with life and push
through.

SPEAKER_01 (01:13:40):
That's

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:40):
enough.
Yeah.
going to tackle it will disruptyour functionality, right?
And so if I can create a lifethat functions and I'm
surviving, just surviving isenough for people to not want to
go back and look at how they canmake it better because it can

SPEAKER_01 (01:13:56):
stop.
Some people feel like they don'teven have the luxury of even
stopping to check on theirmental or focus on that because
they're too busy surviving.
They ain't got time for that.
They're built to do this, dothat.
And they won't even check inwith themselves.

SPEAKER_03 (01:14:11):
Nope.
Nope.
They can't because most ofAmerica is living check to
check.
Right.
You can't afford to stop.
You got to work two, three jobs.
You got to make sure your kidshave what they want.
You got to make sure if you'remarried, your spouse is getting
what they need.
Something's going to fall by thewayside and it's normally you.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:27):
I would tell myself, you know, something got to give,
but it's not going to be me.
Something is going to break, butit's not going to be me.

SPEAKER_03 (01:14:34):
Because you can't put yourself at the top of the
list because then everythingelse you feel in your mind I
can't make time for myselfbecause everything else will
fall.
Most people I coach, I'm in thatnumber two.
You put yourself last becauseyou have so much dependent on
you that you forget about you.
You don't take care of yourselfthe way you need to.
You might not even be showeringevery day.
You've got to figure out howyou're going to wake up every

(01:14:56):
morning and smile and give yourkids an example.
You've got to smile and makesure your boss is happy at work
and then you come home and allyou've got left is the ability
to pass out and go to sleep andwake up and do it again.

SPEAKER_01 (01:15:06):
I call it the piece of the pie.
Each day, you've got to pie youhave to divvy it up some days
this person gonna get this big aslice some days tomorrow it
might be a smaller slice eitherway it go you gotta pick and
choose you know where youportion those slices those
pieces of you out parcel themout as you say and at the end of
the day there's nothing left butcrumbs left in that pan and

(01:15:28):
that's for you you have to set apiece of the pie and put it up
like Thanksgiving before youeven fix your plate fix your
to-go plate and put it away

SPEAKER_03 (01:15:37):
because what happens is that when you are living in
this survival cycle and you'reputting yourself last, it's like
you don't even care about thepiece of the pie anymore.
You're serving so many otherthings and so When people get
coached by me, we work veryheavily on self-awareness, but
we also work really heavily onboundaries, right?

(01:15:59):
Because a lot of times thereason why we're in survival
mode is because we don't tellcertain people no, like our
parents, right?
We feel like we got to jump whenthey want us to jump and we got
to jump to go through this.
And we can't say, no, I can't dothat today.
It's like a part of your system.
But if you say no on Monday,right?
I tell them to take it in smallchunks.
You say no on Monday.
Now you have time to take careof yourself for two, three

(01:16:20):
hours.
You didn't go run or do this.
this thing and what you find inpractice and you know this when
you tell people no they feellike they're dependent on you
the thing that they want itstill gets done

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:29):
right people find a way yeah because if I wasn't
able to do it you gonna go findsomebody else or find another
way to go get it done if Iwasn't here if I died tomorrow
exactly you gonna find a way toget it done

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:41):
so we put that on ourselves and we create a world
where we feel like we can'tbreathe but there is space if
you parse out your 24 hoursthere's space there right you
just don't believe lead thereis.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:53):
For you personally, Derek, you're doing this work
every day, holding space forother people's pain.
How do you manage your ownmental and emotional health
while doing this work?
Because I know firsthand healingother people while you're still
healing yourself is no smallthing.
And even if you feel you are ina good space mentally and or are

(01:17:14):
healed or healing, transferenceof all of this heaviness is
really possible.
So What practices, boundaries,or rituals keep you grounded and
protected from others' pain?
Okay,

SPEAKER_03 (01:17:26):
this is a good question.
And I've mostly solved thisissue and I'll tell you how,
what it is, right?
So when I started coaching, evenin the relationship side, you
still are absorbing people'spains, right?
And being an empath, right?
So now what I realized incoaching the way Traditionally,

(01:17:47):
you know, you would charge forour one on one session and I was
doing these one on ones and Irealized that I wasn't always OK
after the session.
Right.
Because in this makeup of who Iam, how many of these one on
ones could I take in a week andstill be OK?
Right.
And let's say your businessstarts to grow and you had to

(01:18:09):
take on more clients.
How could I as a human take onall of it and still be OK being
an empath and absorbing theirstuff?
And the way that I help peoplebecause of all of my stuff that
I've been through and all of mytrauma, I have to take myself
back to my own in order for themto trust me that I know about

(01:18:30):
theirs.
So I have to relive this in realtime.
Remember what the pain felt likeand then get off the phone and
have to take time.
When I go live, I have to takean hour after I finish my lives
because I'm talking aboutmyself.
They don't notice all the time,but I'm talking about myself.
When I talk about survival mode,I'm reliving it in real time.

(01:18:50):
So what I realized about myself,number one, I have to recharge
myself and disconnect and reallykind of get myself back to
center.
Actors have to do this too,right?
When they get into a role.
But furthermore, I realized thattaking in people's traumas in
the way that I was on the phone.
Because, you know, when peopleget you on the phone, they throw

(01:19:13):
up all of their stuff on you.
They don't have a filter.

SPEAKER_01 (01:19:16):
It's like a goulash of just everything.

SPEAKER_03 (01:19:19):
Yeah, because for a lot of people, this is the first
time that they have anonjudgmental ear, right?
So they want to give you all ofit, right?
They don't care about the hour.
They want to just keep going.
And then as an empath, you wantto keep going too because you
have an innate need to helpthem.
And you're like, wait, I'm goingan hour and a half.
It's two hours.
Wait, wait, we got to get offthe phone.
So what I realized, number one,I can't keep doing these

(01:19:40):
one-on-ones without me kind ofsuffering from it.
So what I did was Here comes theanalyst, right?
Thanks, mom.

SPEAKER_01 (01:19:48):
Shout out, mom.
Mama.

SPEAKER_03 (01:19:49):
I said to myself, if I catalog what I have to tell
people to help them andcompartmentalize them into
categories, right?
Because in this human existence,it's not so but so many ways
you're going to be hurt.
Yeah.
So I'm going to categorizewhat's the most popular things
that most people need to in thisspace.

(01:20:11):
And I, what I did was I createdworkshops, live workshops where
I would talk to many about atopic instead of one.
I record that workshop and thenit lives on my website forever
as a per purchase.
So now when you come to me andsay, Hey, I'm having a problem
with a breakup.
I'm going to send you to how torecover from a breakup workshop.

(01:20:33):
Now I don't have to talk to youone-on-one and absorb your pain.
You're going to go doself-study.
And then when you have aquestion, I can now answer your
separate little question on theside, but I'm not taking in the
brunt because the video is goingto step you through all of the
stuff where you would havethrown up on me.
You can be like, oh, my God, Igot the answer.
So now when they come back,here's the beautiful thing about

(01:20:54):
this thing that I created.
Right.
So now I have a library ofprerecorded workshops that speak
to most issues.
Right.
And so here's the genius in thedesign.
It wasn't planned this way, butthis is the genius in the
design.
I have a three tiered approachto helping people heal.
So imagine like a pyramid that'ssectioned into three pieces,

(01:21:16):
right?
The top part is your complaint.
This is where you throw up aboutthe stuff you've been through.
Oh my God, the narcissist.
Oh my God, I'm hurt.
Can you please help me, right?
The middle tier are the negativeexperiences that you experience
that create the top layer.
The bottom layer, the biggestfoundational layer is all the
stuff that you never worked on,right?
So then you dare step yourselfback up The stuff you didn't

(01:21:39):
work on helps create thenegative experiences.
The negative experiences createyour complaints, right?
Right.
Notice the math in this, right?
It's all about math.
Right.
So now if I eliminate youcomplaining in my ear for an
hour and I say, give me the gistof what you think you need to
work on.
Right.
Okay, cool.
That fits in a certain category.

(01:22:00):
We're going to skip talkingabout your experiences and we're
going to start talking aboutyour childhood wounds at the
bottom.
We're going to work on buildingyou up.

SPEAKER_01 (01:22:08):
Yeah.
Let's get to the foundation.
Right.
We're going

SPEAKER_03 (01:22:11):
to build up your healing.
We're going to build up yourhealthy boundaries.
We're going to make you a betterperson.
And then the middle tier startsto change.
Exactly.
Now you start to have morepositive experiences because
you're not sitting in places youshouldn't be in.
And guess what happens to thecomplaints at the top?
They disappear.
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (01:22:29):
Right.
I love that.
So

SPEAKER_03 (01:22:30):
you're not going to waste my time on the phone.
Are you going to be mad at me?
I just want to tell you that myboyfriend, I don't need to know
the details.
Yeah, we're going to get to thebottom of it and you're going to
figure it.
Here's the other genius part ofit.
I don't have to absorb it, whichmeans I'm OK to help more
people.
Right.
It's very scalable.
I can take a thousand peopletomorrow with my system and not

(01:22:51):
feel it.
Right.
Right.
Number two, I don't do the workfor you.
Right.
You have all the material.
You have me talking to youthrough video that you can go
back and replay six months fromnow if you need a refresher.
Yeah.
So you are driving the car.
I'm just the guardrails to makesure you don't get off path.
Now, if you are not convicted inyour healing journey and you

(01:23:11):
stop, I don't you got to come tome.
I'm not going to come find you.
So some people don't take acouple and they dive off.
They're not ready.
But guess what?
They can always come back whenthey feel like it, when they
feel like they're ready.
I coach the coachable, right?

SPEAKER_01 (01:23:25):
Right.
The ready.

SPEAKER_03 (01:23:25):
So while you're going through self pacing, it's
your pace.
You have all the materials.
You need to call me.
Hey, coach, where do I go next?
Cool.
Hey, coach, I took this workshopand I have a question.
Cool.
I'm taking little increments ofyou instead of the big thing
that's going to make me passout.
And I can't.

SPEAKER_01 (01:23:42):
Exactly.
It's the gift that keeps ongiving.

SPEAKER_03 (01:23:44):
So now.
My system works when I'msleeping.
Yeah, I still get to be anempath.
I still get to be This is mysister.
A lot of people, when they comein, they're like, I don't want
to do it that way.
I just want to get on the phonewith you.
And I'm like, that's not howthis operates.

SPEAKER_01 (01:23:57):
Right.
Because that goes back to thatabandonment.
You just want somebody to talkto.
Are you really interested inyour healing?
So

SPEAKER_03 (01:24:03):
if you are not convicted enough to watch one
video, you don't deserve to geton the phone with me.

SPEAKER_01 (01:24:08):
I know.
That's right.

SPEAKER_03 (01:24:08):
That's how I filter people.

SPEAKER_01 (01:24:10):
That's right.

SPEAKER_03 (01:24:11):
Some people you need to get on the phone.
This stuff is a little nuanced,but 99 percent of people who are
come to my system and they gothrough it and I offer myself to
you.
If you are under my covering,you can come to me for
questions.

SPEAKER_01 (01:24:25):
Yeah, right.
Because you can't help them ifthey're not willing to help
themselves.

SPEAKER_03 (01:24:30):
Right.
One out of 10 comes back to askfor questions.
Why?
Because the other nine, my stuffis so intuitive that they don't
need it.
10 people who want to go throughthe whole process, one of them
will come back and say, I got aquestion.
I got a question.
The rest of them is like, I'mgood.
And I'm like, wait, I thoughtI'm available for quick.
And they don't they don't comeback.

(01:24:51):
Right.
They work on themselves and theyget it done.

SPEAKER_01 (01:24:53):
Yeah.
I love how not only what you'redoing helps you, but it helps
you help them.
Yeah.
And then not only does that keepyou protected mentally,
emotionally, spiritually, itkeeps you from from wasting your
time.
Let's just call a spade a spade.
Yeah.
Because you can want healing,but you have to understand that
that's you.
You have to do the work.

(01:25:14):
There's no coach.
There's no therapist.
There's no.
workshop that you can go tothat's going to do the work for
you.
And that self-reflection is whatpeople avoid because it's dark
and it's ugly and it's angry.
And there's a little kid, likeyou said, that little kid in
there that's in there having ananny 911 temper tantrum.
Yeah.

(01:25:34):
And you don't want to deal

SPEAKER_03 (01:25:35):
with that.
Exactly.
And some have tried.
And I'm like, did you take theworkshop?
No.
OK, then we're not.
You got to do you got to get theprimer before you get the main
thing.
But here's the last unintendedside effect.
of my system, which was born outof my frustration of taking in
so much trauma and not beingable to handle it.
The last side effect in thisthing that I call a genius

(01:25:57):
system is when you are gettingsuch intuitive information and a
lot of the work you're doing onyour own, even though you have
my voice on video and you havemy voice when you come to my
lives, which are, you know, freeor whatever, or you come to my
YouTube and you get all of thatinformation, you are doing the
work, right?
When you then get to a pointwhere you are ready to graduate,

(01:26:21):
so to speak, and really be ableto kind of like float with your
own wings, you realize that youhave not built a dependency on
me because you look back and yourealize that you did most of the
work.
Even if I gave you someassistance, maybe I guardrailed
you a little bit.
You did it.
You know how little kids feelwhen they do the project and
they're like, I did it.
I did it.
You get to really look at yourhealing journey and say, thank

(01:26:43):
you, coach, but I'm good.
Yeah.
Like, I don't need to keepcalling you.
And people who are used tosessions will get addicted to
the sessions and they feel likethey got to keep.
I don't have those people.
They've done the work themselveswith my me being like the little
person on the shoulder.
Right.
Everybody who's been coached byme when I released them.
Right.

(01:27:04):
They'll come back and say I wasoutside and I was about to make
a move.
But then I heard your voicebecause they were listening to
the video and the voice issaying, don't do it.
You know, that's your innerchild.
Right.
They literally all of a suddensay they hear my voice.
And I'm like, if that's whatmakes you make the right
decision, then so be it.
Keep listening.
Most people in the workshops,they have not watched them less
than five times a piece becauseyou learn new things and you go

(01:27:27):
back and listen to it again withdifferent ears.
And you're like, oh, my God, Ilearned something new.
You can't do that with a one onone session on the phone.

SPEAKER_01 (01:27:33):
That makes so much sense.
I want to take it back to wherethis movement came from.
What made you say this is thework I need to be doing?
Because you're not just talkingabout relationships.
You're helping people relearnthemselves, helping them
confront the things they've beencarrying and find language for
it, helping them feel seen, feelheard.
So you spoke on it briefly aboutwhy sit down and heal and what

(01:27:58):
that phrase meant to youliterally just within your own
healing.
But what are you inviting peopleinto when they land on your page
or reach out to work with you?

SPEAKER_03 (01:28:07):
So here is the part that people don't see coming.
I created this from a communitymindset, not an individual
mindset, right?
So let me explain to you whatthat means.
If you care about the Blackcommunity, if you champion love,
if you champion relationship, ifyou champion even people having
better relationships, even infriendships or familial

(01:28:29):
relationships, right, then youhave to Not just look at
relationships as the connectingof people, but relationships as
in relationship with yourself.
Right.
The only way for you to grow arelationship with yourself,
especially in a world where mostof us have some type of wounding
or trauma, is to face thatfirst.

(01:28:51):
Right.
If you face that first and youget with some assistance, in
this case coaching, and you areable to start your healing
journey and push through it.
Right.
then you then become the modelfor the people in the
environment around you.
So you're going to catch somestrays that see you different.
And some of them will beempowered to want to do it

(01:29:14):
themselves, even if it's not forme, which means now you have now
inspired another.
It could be your kids.
And I always tell people youhealing.
It's modeled for your kids, evenif your kids are 30.
It is.
Even if they're 30 years old,they get to see a mom or a dad
that is working on themselves,right?

SPEAKER_01 (01:29:32):
Right.
And people don't realize kidsare always watching.
Even if they're not justintently watching and focused on
you, they're downloadingconstantly information from
their environment, from whatthey see.
I have a 25 year old who comeback and tell me about her
experience with me as her motherand her childhood and how that's

(01:29:53):
affecting her or what's thateven led to in her young adult
life.
And she's learning about that.
So the community approach kindof looks like when you heal,

(01:30:18):
when you're

SPEAKER_03 (01:30:22):
healing, you're I hate using it.
Healed sounds great in asentence, but it's really not an
end point.
Yeah.
So if you are healing, you notonly change internally, you
change energetically, right?
You move different.
You see the world different.
You approach people and thingsdifferent around you.

(01:30:45):
If you inspire change in, let'ssay, your household, Your
household is one house on theblock.
But when you are outside, thatis now your environment.
You may inspire the next home,right?
When that growth spreadsexponentially, now you're
looking at change by communityand not just by individual,
right?

(01:31:05):
So when I am helping peopleheal, it's not just about you,
right?
And just a small little 60second example.
I have a workshop called ShadowWork Workshop, which is
basically the subconsciousworking and figuring out the
inner child.
Right.
OK.
I have people who have takenthis workshop, which is one of
the most powerful ones I havebecause it digs so deep.

(01:31:27):
People have taken this workshop.
They have identified theirchildhood wounds.
And it also gives examples ofhow what you do, what your
parent has done to affect you ina way and what it could
extrapolate out to.
people have taken this workshopand literally had like their
mouth open like, wait, I'm doingthat right now to my kid.

SPEAKER_01 (01:31:47):
Right, right.
Like,

SPEAKER_03 (01:31:48):
whoa, wait, I got to change something.
Right.
Just in your search to healyourself, You are now poised to
now change the trajectory ofyour kid right now.
And that is powerful becausethen there becomes the community
mindset.

SPEAKER_01 (01:32:05):
Exactly, exactly.
And this is how we change.
This is how we change community.
And when we talk about love,Black love, like we are in this
particular conversation and justin general, you cannot, it's not
just romantic love.
You cannot not talk about thecommunity, right?
the love of community and howthat in turn shifts.

(01:32:26):
Because once the communitychanges, that changes the
environment.
You see, when you walk outsidethe door where you're not just
in that bubble of just yourhouse on your block.
So that's a beautiful thing andsomething that that we need more
of, too, in our black community.

SPEAKER_03 (01:32:43):
Yeah, because this is what you hear from most
people who are dealing with alot of things in life with
relationships or whatever elseor abuse or whatever.
And you'll say, But why do youthink that you pick like this or
why do you think that you behavelike this?
And most of them will say,because I never saw it.
Right.
Right.
So if you never saw it.
Right.
If this is the sentiment of mostpeople, I never had an example.

(01:33:04):
Then part of the solution iscreating the examples.
Right.
So I'm a firm believer in notbelieving the statistic, but
becoming the reason why thestatistic isn't true.

SPEAKER_01 (01:33:15):
Right.
I love that.

SPEAKER_03 (01:33:17):
That's what I live by.
So people are like, I wouldnever get married because
everybody's getting divorced.
And I'm like, if you reallybelieve in love, be the reason
why the statistic isn't true.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (01:33:27):
Because

SPEAKER_03 (01:33:27):
you control what you choose and not choose.
The difference is what lens areyou looking at when you're
looking through when you'remaking a choice.
That's what I work on ischanging that lens from red to
clear.
Perspective.

SPEAKER_01 (01:33:39):
That's so funny.
I just had that conversationabout viewfinders, just opening
up your phone and taking apicture of the app.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(01:34:11):
How you looked at love allowedyou to be in the 16 year
marriage with your wife rightnow because you changed your
perspective and you didn't grow.
You changed your mindset.
Change changes everything.
that's a conversation becausenow you're going into neural
pathways and people hate changeand don't know why they hate

(01:34:31):
change but you know your brainis actively working against that
change because it hates changeit loves routine that wrote you
talk about that survival mode

SPEAKER_03 (01:34:41):
yes but here's one point I want to make I did a lot
of healing work before themarriage but most of my healing
happened during the marriagebecause this is where you get
battle tested this is whereyou're going to come and get
triggers that you never knewwere there and the result Yeah.
Yeah.

(01:35:07):
go get out of it and how youresolve it is going to allow you
to, whether you're going to belong lasting or not, whether
you're willing to adapt tochanges in all of these things.
Most of my healing happenedafter the marriage.
It was having a partner thatunderstood that both have to
understand that change iscoming.
And then when you go throughthis stuff, what foundationally

(01:35:29):
do you have to go back to whenthings are not well?
And that's why when you meetsomeone, you're not looking for
attachment.
You're looking for alignment.
Yeah.
Does it align with your corevalues?
The whole equally yoked thing.
Like you've got to make that abig vetting process.
And that then becomes afoundation that you then build
off of when you do get thattrigger and it hurts and you

(01:35:51):
don't know how to talk about it.
Right.
How do you get to the pointwhere you're sitting down having
a conversation with your partnerand say, you know what?
I didn't like when you, you knowhow hard it is to tell them that
you've got even men to tell themthat something hurt in a
conflict.
For me to be able to do that nowor her to be able to do that
now, now we're at a point wherewe understand the nuances of

(01:36:12):
each other.
Even just simple thing of, like,let's say you're an introvert
and you need recharge time.
Well, if somebody doesn'tunderstand that about you, it
could hurt someone withabandonment issues.

SPEAKER_01 (01:36:21):
Yeah, definitely.
Now they're transferring that.
Not understanding your need orjust what it is that you need in
that moment because now they'refocused on just their needs.
They don't understand how Eventhemselves, what that means to
be introverted or what thatmeans to be extroverted or it
all comes back to knowledge,wisdom and understanding.

SPEAKER_03 (01:36:42):
I saw this video on TikTok a while ago, but it's an
amazing video of this couplewhere one is an extrovert and
one is an introvert.
And she goes through a day inthe life of their life with them
both being a little different.
And she kind of catalogs deepconversations about our needs
and being an introvert.
He needs time, quiet.
He likes to watch TV.

(01:37:03):
He likes to play the videogames.
And she said, I really needcloseness like my I like quality
time.
And so what she learned throughtheir relationship is sometimes
he needs to just kind of veg outand like watch TV, but she'll
sit on the other end of thecouch and read a book.
So she's present in the room andhe's getting his time without
being bothered, but she stillfeels like she's in the room

(01:37:26):
with him.
And that appeases what she needswhile he's getting what he needs
because she knows that that'shis recharge time.
So they've learned how and she'slike, okay, so this is the time
where he needs to go ride hisbike.
I'm not going to bother him, butwhen he comes back, he knows he
needs to hug me when he comes inbecause I need that in order for
me to feel safe.

(01:37:46):
And so they have this synergybetween them.
If you don't have this kind ofcommunication, your relationship
is doomed.

SPEAKER_01 (01:37:54):
Right.
From the jump.

SPEAKER_03 (01:37:55):
Yeah.
I thought that was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 (01:37:57):
Right.
Right.
Yeah.

(01:38:27):
without judgment.
But I think it's important tonote that not every coach, not
every therapist is the right fitfor everybody and how traumatic
of an experience it can be ifthey fumble the ball with
somebody who's expressing theirvulnerability for the first
time.
So for those who are listeningand thinking, maybe I do need
help, maybe I do need support,what should they be looking for

(01:38:50):
in a coach or a therapist?
What signs should let them know,hey, yes, this is someone I can
grow with.
And on the flip side.
What are some red flags to watchfor when seeking help in this
space, especially when you'revulnerable and don't want to be
re-traumatized?

SPEAKER_03 (01:39:06):
Right.
So, One of the things that Ihold true with my coaching is
that I don't take on somethingthat I'm not qualified to take
on.
So a lot of times my clients endup going to therapy for the
first time because I was theconduit to get them there,
right?
Right.
Because I'm a safer entry point.
Yeah.
The reason why a lot of peopletrust me per se, and I can talk

(01:39:27):
about other coaches too in aminute, but the reason why they
connect with me is because ofthe way that I had to sit down
in a lot of the emotionaldespair in those states that
I've been into that were highlytraumatic.
They don't see me as a coach upfront.
They see me as one of thembecause they get to see me be
vulnerable on a live that theydidn't have to pay for.

(01:39:51):
And then they're like, oh myGod, I think you're the best fit
for me because I feel like youwould understand what I'm going
through.
That's important.
I'm very candid about not justgoing through things, but what
it feels like to be in anemotional state And that is the
connective tissue because a lotof times when people are in
heightened emotions, they feelalone.
They don't think peopleunderstand what it feels like.

(01:40:14):
Not that it's happened.
Like you could say, I just brokeup.
But when I talk about what itfeels like to have those tears
and that phone sitting next toyou and you want to dial it and
you don't know if you shouldcall them or not and you know
you need to knock it.
Like I talk about thatintimately.
So they're like, he gets it.
And that's what makes a lot ofpeople drawn to me because I
kind of have what I call astreet level knowledge of how to

(01:40:35):
express the emotions versus thebook knowledge, right?

SPEAKER_01 (01:40:39):
Yeah, it makes you relatable.

SPEAKER_03 (01:40:41):
I marriage the two, but I give it to them in
language that they can digest.
And a lot of it comes from myempathetic place because I am an
empath.
So I know what those emotionsfeel like.
And so a lot of people are drawnto me in that way.
And some of them will choose toget coaching through me.
But if I feel like there's somuch stuff going on, then I'll
say you need to go to therapy.
A lot of coaches won't do that.

(01:41:02):
They'll just take your money andkeep trying to They'll go into
areas that they don't need to gointo.
So to answer the other part ofyour question, what you need to
do when you are vetting a coachor a therapist, and you also
first need to understand thedifference between the two.
The coach is going to take youfrom where you are.
He's going to ask you about yourgoals and help you get to your

(01:41:23):
goals.
The therapist looks backwardsand kind of looks at a diagnosis
differently.
where you've been.

SPEAKER_02 (01:41:28):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (01:41:29):
Now, when I do teeters on both, but I don't dig
too deep, like I don't deal withphysical abuse or sexual.
OK, I don't do none of thatbecause I'm not qualified to do
any of that.
Right.
But I will give you indicatorsof where the childhood trauma
may have started from.
OK.
And you can say, that's me.
OK, cool.
You have an anxious attachmentstyle.

(01:41:49):
This is how we're going to moveforward.
I don't do all of the diagnosingof everything that happened to
you in your life because that'snot my job.
Right.
So, When you're vetting a coachor a therapist, first, you need
to know the difference and thatwill let you know where you need
to land.
Yeah.
And then when you get there,then it's really about how you
feel.
Is it comfortable?

(01:42:09):
Are they making you feelcomfortable?
Yeah.
Do you feel judged?
Right.
Some people don't feel judged byeverything.
coach or therapist and you haveto look at that too is it them
or is it me right

SPEAKER_00 (01:42:20):
right

SPEAKER_03 (01:42:20):
some of the red flags you want to look out for
sometimes is someone that youthink doesn't care doesn't get
you not empathetic to yourissues it feels like they're
just trying to make you come tosessions

SPEAKER_01 (01:42:31):
it's just a job

SPEAKER_03 (01:42:32):
right the other thing is is that if you don't
feel like you've grown yeahright you've been in therapy for
five years and you're the sameright something's not right yeah
something's not right

SPEAKER_01 (01:42:42):
and your therapist should have told you that
yourself hey we don't seem to bemaking Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:43:03):
Some people just need someone to vent a
nonjudgmental fear.
But if you're coming for growth,they need to be giving you
things that's going to help youbecome different than what you
are.
And you have to be mindful ofthat.
Like, if you know that you needto become something better and
you need to work on some things,well, there's work involved.
There's habit change becauseyour coach or your therapist

(01:43:24):
helping you habit change or arethey just there letting you dump
stuff on them?
Right.
Because some people will feelbetter after they dump the
stuff.
Right.
But that's not fixing theproblem.

SPEAKER_01 (01:43:35):
Not at all.
Not at all.
Because those problems are goingto resurface.
Exactly.
You're still not, you know,you're going to be looking for
somebody else to talk to aboutit again.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:43:44):
What I find in a lot of people who end up in my care
is a lot of them have been intherapy since they were like,
children and they're still intherapy.
And then they'll come to me andthey'll say, I've only been with
you for six months and not mywhole entirety of my therapy.
I would have never gotten this.
Yeah.

(01:44:04):
They just sat there.
Right.
There's no metric by which youcan say I've been in therapy for
five years and I'm still likesomething's wrong.
Right.
Yeah.
So I don't I don't judgepeople's situations, but that's
a long time for you to not haveanything change.

SPEAKER_04 (01:44:21):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:44:21):
And the therapist is just sitting there like, yeah,
we're on the third year and justkeep paying for the weekly
session.

SPEAKER_01 (01:44:27):
Oh, graduation.

SPEAKER_03 (01:44:28):
That's the whole, the goal is for you to graduate,
not for you to find a crutch.
That's why I always tell people,I don't want to be your crutch.
I want you to be able to takeyour birdie wings and fly on
your own.
And if you need to come back toPapa and get some more food,
cool, but I'm not going to, I'mgoing to teach you how to hunt.
I'm not going to feed you.
I'm going to teach you how tohunt.

SPEAKER_01 (01:44:46):
How to go out there and feed yourself.
On the flip side of that, whatabout somebody who their first
experience with therapy washorrible?
Like a person's first experiencegoing to church and they showed
up in Black on All White Sundayand now the people looking at
them like they crazy.
What happens when they have afirst time experience and it's
awful and it turns them off fromwanting to seek help?

(01:45:08):
What would you tell them?
Because it seems like it justreinforced their belief that
nobody cares.
Nobody listens.
They're not safe to feelvulnerable with anyone.

SPEAKER_03 (01:45:18):
Yeah, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy,
unfortunately, when you do that.
And it's difficult.
And this is why when I coachpeople, it's almost like a
reboot.
You're going to have to unlearnsome things.
And the only way to do that,like I said earlier in the
conversation, is you have todetox and sit down and heal,
right?
That whole moniker means a lot.
What I try to do is I try to,again, Even though there's a lot

(01:45:42):
of emotion for me, it's verymathematical, right?
Like one plus one equals two.
If this recurring thing ishappening and we want to change
the behavior, we're going tohave to find a different way to
go about it, which means youhave to attach yourself.
This is where the pain is.
I have to do something that goesoutside of the scope of what I
believe to be familiar or whatI'm used to doing and running

(01:46:05):
into.
And it's hard for me to changeor you know, go outside and use
the things that I've learned.
And that's why I pride myself ongiving you foundational tools
that may not be relevant toevery situation, but the system
works for every situation.
You follow me?
Like if you know how to manageyourself through one trigger

(01:46:28):
with a set of tools that tellsyou how to work with any
trigger, then you may not catchit the first time, but you've
got tools to say, These are thesteps.
Right.
You have now changed thetrajectory of how you deal with
anything you deal with.
And so that's why we're talkingabout with the whole coaching
therapy and all of that kind ofstuff.
If you don't have that, thenyou're in the wrong place.

SPEAKER_01 (01:46:50):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:46:51):
If you as a therapist aren't graduating
people, you're in the wrongprofession.

SPEAKER_01 (01:46:54):
No doubt.
And I know

SPEAKER_03 (01:46:56):
they may hate me for saying that, but you're in the
wrong profession.

SPEAKER_01 (01:46:59):
It's the truth.
Yeah.
Look, it's the truth.
Some people

SPEAKER_03 (01:47:02):
have chronic stuff that lasts, you know, they got
to take medication and all that.
But the population at largeshould not be in your care for
years and years on the samething.

SPEAKER_01 (01:47:11):
Right.
What you said.
Like

SPEAKER_03 (01:47:12):
somebody broke up with their boyfriend.
They shouldn't be trying tofigure out how to handle that
two years later from you.
Not themselves, but paying you.
No, no.

SPEAKER_01 (01:47:21):
But from you.
Right.
Paying you.
Paying you to help them.
And that's sad.
You can't even pay people tohelp you.
And oh my goodness, that'shorrible.
I want to bring it to presentday though, Derek, because
finding love right now, It's notwhat it used to be.
I want to shift to what itactually looks like to date and
seek real love right now,especially in a climate where

(01:47:42):
division, competition andperformative connection are the
norm.
What's your take on moderndating, especially in the black
community?
We've got social media podcasts,clickbait, gender wars, pick me
culture, high value men,feminine energy, masculine women
and a whole lot of confusion anddivision.
Black men are saying black womenare too hard, too masculine, too

(01:48:04):
independent.
Right.
Right.
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (01:48:29):
So it's the latter.

SPEAKER_01 (01:48:30):
We're projecting pain onto each other.

SPEAKER_03 (01:48:32):
Right.
So it's projecting pain.
And it's also providing asolution for people who are
dealing with pain to give you avillain to blame.
Right.
Right.
On both sides.
Right.
Yeah.
My answers to these questionsthat seem complex.
I'm really very simple with itbecause I'm the champion of
human behavior.
When you take away the nuance,human behavior has not changed

(01:48:54):
ever.
It has not changed, right?

SPEAKER_01 (01:48:57):
It has not.

SPEAKER_03 (01:48:58):
So when people say it's 2025 and dating is
different now and I'm like, yes,different, but it's not so
different, right?
Like you can say that we haveonline dating and podcasts and
we have all of this, right?

SPEAKER_00 (01:49:13):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:49:13):
You may be frustrated because it may be
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.

(01:49:47):
that is that thing that youdon't like, don't date her.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_01 (01:49:51):
simple, right?

SPEAKER_03 (01:49:51):
Right.
So like you can say, oh, thewomen are so masculine.
I can find you a thousand womenright now that just want you to
be present and they don't evencare about how much you make.
They just want somebody to keepthem safe.
So stop it.
This is Internet jargon.
This doesn't happen outside.

SPEAKER_01 (01:50:07):
Right.
But the narrative.
Most of these

SPEAKER_03 (01:50:09):
men who are saying all of this rhetoric, if you put
them outside, and you had themactually deal with a woman that
wanted to be in a relationship,they wouldn't even say this
stuff to her because they knowthey would lose her.
They're only doing it for theinternet.
Right.
This doesn't work.
That stuff doesn't work outside.

SPEAKER_01 (01:50:25):
Right.
Let

SPEAKER_03 (01:50:26):
them know.
So when people say, oh, peopleare different.
No.
Pain is the same.
Emotions are the same.
People that want to just sleepwith you.
Did that start in 2025?
No.
Liars.
Manipulators.
Is this new?
Same thing, right?
Exactly.
All of this is the same.
It doesn't matter where you findit.
It's there.

(01:50:47):
It's your job to have thediscernment to recognize it.
Right.
Exactly.
All of that stuff.
If you go online dating versusmeeting people outside online,
does it?
Exactly.
Exactly.

(01:51:15):
Yeah, I don't let people runthat past me.
They'd be like, everybodyonline, they just want to sleep
with you.
I'm like, go outside.
I guarantee you won't find abunch of men that want the same
thing.
You just don't lay your headthere.

SPEAKER_01 (01:51:27):
Go to the gas station.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_03 (01:51:29):
like you.
It's a silly argument, right?
It is.
It really is.
And I don't begrudge people, butit's a silly argument about I'd
rather meet somebody outside.
And here's the kicker.
Here's the kicker about oh,dating is so hard and the dating
pool has pee.
You know what happens in reallife?
And I'm only going to talk aboutsome instances and most of them
are women, but I know menprobably it's the same on both

(01:51:50):
sides.
So what happens is, is that me,the analyst, the mathematician,
I'm going to break you down andlet you see where your
weaknesses are.
So you come to me and you saythe dating pool has pee in it.
Everybody I meet is trash andthe dating pool sucks and dating
is different.
And I just hate it.
And so I'll sit you down andI'll say, OK, let's go ahead and

(01:52:10):
do some math.
Right.
How many dates you've been outon in the past three to four
months?
Two.

SPEAKER_01 (01:52:17):
Who, me?

SPEAKER_03 (01:52:17):
Who's

SPEAKER_01 (01:52:18):
dry around here, Mr.
D?

SPEAKER_03 (01:52:19):
Like the person would say two, right?
Right.
Two, three, right?
In four months, they might havebeen on two or three dates.
Or zero,

SPEAKER_01 (01:52:25):
right?
Right.
That's me.
I'm in the zero club.

SPEAKER_03 (01:52:28):
So the dating pool...
is trash because of threepeople.
That statistic doesn't even bearfruit for your neighborhood, let
alone the whole dating

SPEAKER_02 (01:52:38):
thing.

SPEAKER_03 (01:52:38):
Right,

SPEAKER_02 (01:52:38):
right.

SPEAKER_03 (01:52:39):
So statistically, it is false.
You don't have enoughinformation or at bats to even
do that.

SPEAKER_01 (01:52:45):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (01:52:46):
So now here's the deeper math, because I go deep.
I'm going to pull out yourweakness in literally five
minutes.
So now I'm going to ask you,Where are you going to meet
these people?

SPEAKER_01 (01:52:57):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 (01:52:57):
Most humans hunt in familiar areas.
They're going to go to the sameBarbie Friday.
Right.
They're going to go to the samebrunch with their girls.
Right.
They're going to be in a certainmile radius of their home.
Right.
Yeah.
So now in that 10 mile radius ofyour home, they have to be over
six foot.
Right.
They have to have this kind ofjob.
They have to have, you know,love they mama.

(01:53:18):
They're going to have to beemotionally intelligent.
They're going to have to blah,blah, blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:53:22):
Checking boxes.
Now in

SPEAKER_03 (01:53:22):
that 10 mile radius, now your pool of potential
candidates is really tiny.
Right.
Right.
Because they got to be the rightskin tone.
Can't be too dark.
Can't be too light.
They got to be.
So now the people that you wouldpotentially have is smaller.
And the bigger part is they haveto like you back.
That part.
Right.
Wait, they have to be single.

(01:53:43):
Right.
And all of that.
Right.
So now your small window ofpeople because you refuse to get
outside of your comfort zone.
You're not going to do anythingdifferent.
So you go to the same places,nine times out of 10, you're
probably going to get similarresults because in small pockets
of the country, people aresocialized the same way.
They go to the same high school.

(01:54:03):
They might even dress similarlybecause they grew up in an area
where fashion looked a certainway.
So you go to the same bar everyweek, you're probably going to
meet a similar type of guy.
But now you say, The dating poolis trash.
Right.
When your redemption story mightbe 20 miles away from your
house.
Right.
But that's too far to drive,right?
Yeah.
So now you're boxed in.

(01:54:24):
You can't come to me, CoachDerrick, and say, I can't find
anybody because I'm going tocall you a liar.
Well.
You haven't gone outside yourcomfort zone.
Most people don't.

SPEAKER_01 (01:54:34):
That's

SPEAKER_03 (01:54:35):
true.
If I say, hey, you like crochet.
You know there's a crochetconvention that men and women go
to and it's an hour away.
Nah, I ain't doing that.
Well, then you ain't trying.
to be met.
You're not trying to putyourself in places where the
people that you say you wantcongregate.
Most people, when you peel backall of it, You're going to find

(01:54:55):
someone that hasn't dated much.
And you're going to findsomebody that's in a comfort
zone that will not yield theresults.
So they then fulfill their ownprophecy.
Because if you think everyone istrash, when you meet someone,
you're going to assume thatthere's something wrong.
And when you pick out that onelittle thing, you're going to be
like, see, I was right.

(01:55:16):
And then you go back and go onthe internet and be like, yep.
And then I'll be like, You don'tget to come up here and talk
about how everybody's trash.
You know why?
Because you're in a dating pool,too.
Are you

SPEAKER_04 (01:55:26):
trash?

SPEAKER_03 (01:55:27):
And let's not talk about the people that don't even
need to be there because theygot stuff to work on.
You are the P2.
You're going to pick a wholenarcissist and be like, I didn't
know.
Yes, you did.
Because you did too much.
You already know.
These signs don't show up twoyears later.

SPEAKER_01 (01:55:40):
Don't lie.
We know.
We know.
We just rationalize and acceptand compromise for whatever
reason in order to stay or topick or to choose or to be with
that person until those thingshappen, manifest in the
relationship and now you'relike, Well, where did this come
from?

SPEAKER_03 (01:56:00):
Yeah, there's no way that you could tell me that
you've been with 10 narcissistsin a row and they all hurt you
the same way.

SPEAKER_01 (01:56:06):
Right.
We had a problem.
Let's talk about why you'rechoosing.
We

SPEAKER_03 (01:56:09):
got a problem.

SPEAKER_01 (01:56:09):
We got a problem and it's not the narcissist.
When people

SPEAKER_03 (01:56:12):
say the dating pool is trash, it's a trauma response
because that's an indictment oneveryone.

SPEAKER_00 (01:56:17):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:56:18):
Right.
It's an absolute statement.
People don't look at it thisway.
It's an absolute statementbecause of your anecdotal
experiences.
Right.
You have not met everyone in theworld of the other gender, so
you can't make That statement.

UNKNOWN (01:56:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:56:29):
Group.
You can

SPEAKER_03 (01:56:30):
say it's tough.
Yeah.
You can say it's taken too longfor me to find my husband.
Cool.
I give you that.
But to say everyone is trash andall men, all they want is one
thing.
I'm like, you haven't met allmen because I can show you
examples of some amazing dads,some amazing husbands that will
walk through fire for theirwives.
They exist.
You're not beating them becauseyou hanging around with Tyrone,

(01:56:52):
who ain't doing nothing for you.

SPEAKER_01 (01:56:55):
Or you're like Mamba, who ain't out in the
streets.
So people be like, well, how canyou expect to find a man if you
can't be found?

SPEAKER_03 (01:57:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:57:02):
They can't find you.
That's

SPEAKER_03 (01:57:03):
most of my clients.
Most of my clients don't gooutside.
They

SPEAKER_01 (01:57:07):
cannot find you.
And

SPEAKER_03 (01:57:08):
I'm like,

SPEAKER_01 (01:57:09):
okay.
Right, we got this bad thingabout outside.
And I understand it's hostileout there now.
Yeah.
And so much plays a part ofthat.
But like you said, there aregood people out there.
Yeah.
To assume that every man is bador every woman is, you know, hot
girl, just down for the hot girlsummer.

SPEAKER_03 (01:57:27):
Yeah.
I run into men all the time thatare like, I'm just trying to
find my wife.
Like, I don't know.
And then you have women I'mtrying to find.
I'm like, how come they don'tmeet?
It's because they spending timetrauma bonding.
Yeah.
You'll never meet if you hangingout in places that are toxic to
you.
Right.
Or you isolate because you'reafraid to get hurt again.
You won't find that personthat's ready for you either.
So you're going to confirm yourbias in either one of those two

(01:57:50):
situations and you will besubconsciously believe it to be
true.
Like, how can you isolate fromthe world, right?
And then say there's no men outthere qualified to be my
husband.
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (01:58:01):
Eight billion people in the world, Mr.
Derrick.
There are over eight billionpeople in the world according
to, what, 22 census?
Yeah.
That's a lot of people.

SPEAKER_03 (01:58:11):
And there's a huge population of men that ain't
even...
in these streets like thatthey're lonely they want
somebody to appreciate themthat's more population of men
than the ones you call dogs likewe're talking like 50 60
percentile of men that don'thave kids right they're not
married and they may be awkwardright right they may not

(01:58:33):
necessarily have the swag youlike they're going to get
ignored but they're amazingpeople they're amazing doesn't
mean they're repulsive to lookat or anything they just may not
have that whatever it is youthink.
He may not be six foot.
He may be 5'10".
Oh, he's excluded.
And I'm like, you're 5'2".
You're 5'2", and you'reexcluding a 5'10".
Stop it.

(01:58:54):
You're going to be looking for along time.

SPEAKER_01 (01:58:57):
Last question I want to ask you, because there are so
many, but I want to wrap this upand I definitely want to have
you come back.
When you look at the state ofBlack love right now, what we've
lost, what we've survived, whatwe've become, what do you really
feel?
Not what sounds good, not whatpeople want to hear, but from
your gut, Derek, from yourspirit, do you still believe in

(01:59:18):
Black love?
And if you do...
What's it going to take to saveit, to rebuild it, to protect
it?
Because right now it feels likewe're watching something sacred
slip through our hands.
So tell me, what do we need todo to keep Black love alive?

SPEAKER_03 (01:59:33):
So I think the realistic answer is, is that, of
course, I believe in it becauseI became a coach that tries to
help people create it in theirlives.
But I don't like a lot of thethings I see.
It gets exacerbated because wehave social media.
So there's a lot of attempts todestroy it even further.
I believe in it.

(01:59:53):
I believe in Black love, but Idon't believe that it will take
form in the way that we wouldwant it to.
As a full-blown community ofpeople, we've lost that.
I don't think that will evercome back.
As a whole, I think that we canget a lot of people to reinvent
how they approach relationships,i.e.

(02:00:15):
working on themselves.
You see pockets of organizationsand people that are championing
therapy and black love.
And so there's people out therein the fight, right, to try to
get it better.
Couples organizations where theyhelp couples communicate better.
So they're out there.
Right.
But they're not they're nottrending on social media, but
they exist on the ground.

(02:00:36):
So it's happening in areas.
The unfortunate thing is that weare very susceptible to being
molded by what social media saysis right or wrong.
And if I'm a broken person, manor woman, and I'm looking for a
scapegoat, just go on one ofthese lives on TikTok.
You're going to find a crew foryou to trauma bond with over
your pain.
And then that becomes yourtribe.

(02:00:57):
So I think a lot of those peoplewon't be saved, if you will.
They're going to live in thatmisery because they need
something to bite.
But I think that If you reallyexpand your lens, you'll see
organizations of men saying wewant to help our brothers.
You're going to seeorganizations of women saying we
want to help our sisters.

(02:01:18):
You're going to seeorganizations that say we want
to try to create opportunitiesfor black people to get
together.
Is it going to be easy?
No, because we got a lot ofconfusion going on out here with
the world changing.
plus how we are with each other.
Like I said, we're in a periodof correction.
I don't know what that lookslike on the other side, but I

(02:01:38):
know that there are a lot ofpeople who really are not
willing to give up.
So if that means the Black lovethat you're talking about exists
in 30%, 40% of the Blackculture, but it's not the whole
thing.
In today's climate, that's a winto me.

SPEAKER_01 (02:01:52):
Yeah,

SPEAKER_03 (02:01:53):
definitely.

SPEAKER_01 (02:01:54):
I appreciate all those that are listening that
are a part of those pockets thatare out there trying to Make
change in whatever shape, formor fashion that they're doing
that to not just have thesepockets out there, but have a
collective community, whetherit's a virtual village where
people know that you can comehere and there's a collective

(02:02:17):
community.
Cause it's hard.
If you don't know where to go,we have all these pockets, like
look at our platforms on socialmedia.
That's a prime example.
We have people just focused onengagement more so than the
actual connection.
So when I'm talking aboutpockets and you're talking about
pockets, when we go and weinteract with people and with
each other, I get to plug you.

(02:02:40):
I get to plug you and send yousomewhere.
I know that you can go, but Weneed to know.
We need to be aware of platformslike yours that are out here
doing these things so thatpeople know that they're not out
here alone, that there's help,that there's resources, that
there are people out here withguidebooks, survival guides
that's trying to help you reachthe next stage that you need to

(02:03:02):
go.
So you don't have to keep going,living through life the way that
you're living.
It's already tough enough.
So when you add on that mentalaspect of it, it becomes too
much.
We definitely need to be acollective.
We definitely need to startsharing these pockets that are
out there so that we can makeand tailor a suit so that we're
not just out here withindividual pieces.
We need to be a collective.

(02:03:24):
And that's what I see that'smissing.

SPEAKER_03 (02:03:26):
Yeah.
You know, to piggyback on thatreal quick, it's not really that
people are like, you know, aboutblack love and how it's kind of
stained or tarnished orwhatever.
And we talk about what I justtalked about is the pockets.
The larger thing is not that thepockets don't exist or that
there aren't spaces for peopleto go.
it's something that's larger inthe Black community is

(02:03:47):
collaboration, right?

SPEAKER_01 (02:03:49):
Yes.
If you take

SPEAKER_03 (02:03:50):
five pockets and they unify into a bigger thing,
now we have something thatpeople can really look at, but
then that requires us to be ableto work together and not be so
individual

SPEAKER_01 (02:04:00):
focused.
Competitive,

SPEAKER_03 (02:04:02):
too.
That is another thing that hurtsthis movement.
No matter how small or big itis, it hurts the movement.
When we have Coach Derek and youhave five other coaches that
work on healing, but we want tocompete and not join forces and
create something bigger.

SPEAKER_01 (02:04:18):
And become rivals instead of working together.
Why can't Coach Derek and CoachJason and Daquan and whoever
else out there come together?
Why can't we panel?
Why can't?
That is important.
Collaboration, community.

SPEAKER_04 (02:04:31):
Derek,

SPEAKER_01 (02:04:32):
this has been one of those conversations that hit
different.
I felt it, and I know that thepeople listening felt it too.
I thank you so much for yourtime and energy today, your
mission, your platform.
Your voice, Derek, is powerful.
I have so many questions to ask,but we'd be here all day.
Before we close out, I want togive you space to what I call

(02:04:56):
play it forward.
No questions, no structure, justroom to say whatever's still
sitting in your chest.
Because I know you didn't justcome here to talk.
You came here to leave us withsomething.
And I don't want this to endwithout giving you that chance.
So this is your moment to helpsharpen iron and speak directly
to the next brother who'slistening, to the sister who's

(02:05:18):
tired but still holding on, tothe ones who want to love but
are scared to reach for it.
to the ones who are healing,breaking, building and showing
up anyway?
What do you want them to carryfrom this conversation?
So I

SPEAKER_03 (02:05:34):
would say that no matter your gender, no matter
your station in life, one thingthat you will always be able to
control is yourself.
No matter the environment, nomatter the circumstance, no
matter the pain, we have to getback to honoring, who we are,

(02:05:55):
understanding who we are, andbeing unapologetic about who we
are.
No matter what the externalforces may say, when you move in
your unapologetic truth, in yourauthentic self, the people who
should be in your sphere ofinfluence belong there because
you are fundamentally changed.

(02:06:19):
So when you attach yourself topeople who align with the
authentic version of yourself,then not only do you connect
with better crops of people, youstart to feel better about
yourself.
This then lends itself into howyou end up in a relationship in
who you choose because you arenot pretending to be someone

(02:06:42):
that people like.
You are authentically beingyourself and the people that you
end up like or liking you areattached to the real you and not
the one that you have created.
that is palatable.
So the overarching sentimentthat I would say is always
believe in you, chase the why ofthe behaviors that you do not

(02:07:05):
like in your life, the spacesthat you land in that are
uncomfortable, the friendshipsthat you have that are not
serving you.
Identify those things and thentry to take steps and try to
understand it.
Understanding and acknowledgingis first.
Then the correction, theadjustments, That's difficult
because a lot of us don't havethe tools and that's where you

(02:07:26):
search for the help.
But the identification is huge.
You have to understand that thelife you have, the way you feel
is not what you want.
And most of us already knowthis.
When I talk on my show, I tellpeople, I don't have to convince
you that you need to heal.
You already know that.
I'm just here when you're readyfor the help.
I'm here, but you already knowyou need it.
You've known it all your life.

(02:07:47):
If you don't like the outcome,you have to embody the most
positive, realistic version ofyourself and live life
abundantly through that lens.

SPEAKER_01 (02:07:59):
If that ain't a word, I don't know what is.
Sometimes a word lands and allyou can do is let it breathe.
So I'm going to honor that.
Sit with it.
And I hope everyone listeningdoes the same.
Before we wrap it up, I want tomake sure that people know how
to stay connected to you, Derek,because So...

SPEAKER_03 (02:08:39):
The big umbrella of how to find me is through my
website and it'swww.sitdownandheal.com.
Through that website, you willbe able to see the entirety of
everything that I offer.
If there's a cost associatedwith it, there's a cost there.
And for your convenience, 99% ofthe stuff I have, you can break
into two monthly payments.

(02:08:59):
So it's not so much of a burden.
All the workshops are hostedthere, which I told earlier in
the show, They're so intuitivethat you don't even have to do a
one-on-one with me.
If you know you need to heal,there's a healing section.
If you know you need to work ondating and relationship, there's
a section for that.
If you're already a couple andyou need work on communication,
so wherever you need to dig in,it's already there.

(02:09:22):
If you already know you need towork on breaking up from a
relationship, there's a workshopfor that.
You don't even need tocommunicate with me to go get
it.
It's going to be laid out foryou.
And if you need to see how Ioperate, There's TikTok.
I go live on TikTok almostdaily, almost.
So you can get to see a tone ofhow I operate and do things.
I have a YouTube channel.

(02:09:42):
Sit down in here on allplatforms, Facebook, Instagram,
YouTube.
You can go through and look atmy work.
A lot of it feels workshop-ish.
So you will get a sentiment ofhow I do things.
And then once you getcomfortable with me there, then
you go back to the website.
And either A, you cancommunicate with me through the
website.
There's also a form that you canfill out depending on where you

(02:10:05):
want to go on there that you caninquire and say, hey, this is
where I'm at.
Tell me what I need to get.
So that's there as well.
So all means of communicationfunnel through that website.
But I go live on YouTube everyTuesday at 730 p.m.
Eastern.
I sit down here with Coach Derekand then I do pop ups on TikTok
quite frequently.
So there's always ways to findme.

(02:10:25):
And when I tell people at theend of every show, hopefully if
you engage me on any platform,And you keep doing it,
eventually you'll be inspired tosit down and heal.

SPEAKER_01 (02:10:36):
Yes, you will.
If you didn't catch that, don'tworry.
All of Coach Derek's informationand direct links will be
available in the show notes.
Be sure to give this king yoursupport.
He is a gem and is doing thehard work to help people heal.
So go check out his platform andshare it with the world.

(02:10:57):
Mr.
Derek, my brother, thank you,not just for what you've said
today, but for how you said it,for how you showed up, for being
honest, grounded, and willing togo there with me.
You didn't come here with ascript.
You came with your truth, andthat matters.
You gave voice to a lot ofthings people don't know how to

(02:11:18):
say out loud yet.
And whether they agree, feelcalled out, or feel seen, you
made us feel something.
And that's what realconversations are supposed to
do.
I hope you are willing to comeback and do this again with me.

SPEAKER_03 (02:11:32):
Thank

SPEAKER_01 (02:11:33):
you so much.

SPEAKER_03 (02:11:34):
Absolutely.
Anytime.
Just let me know.

SPEAKER_01 (02:11:36):
I will.
Thank you, King.
I pray your day is nothing lessthan pleasant and is productive.

SPEAKER_03 (02:11:42):
Same to you.

SPEAKER_01 (02:11:43):
Peace.
Well, hello again.
I see we made it to the otherside and I thank you so much for
tuning in for this wonderfulconversation with Coach Derrick.

(02:12:06):
To my guest, Derrick Jones,thank you for blessing us with
his heart, his wisdom, and histruth.
If today's conversation touchedyou, moved you, or made you
think, take a moment to follow,like, and subscribe not only to
I invite you to not just listen,but to sit down, reflect, and

(02:12:52):
begin your own healing journeytoo.
If you I just might be turningit into bonus content soon.
Your continued support meanseverything.
Cities and countries all overthe world are tuning in all of
the time.
And that means our voices, ourtruths, are traveling the world.

(02:13:16):
If you feel called to share yourown story and be a guest this
season, you can fill out theapplication on my website.
All the links you need are rightthere in the show notes.
And before we jump out of thisrabbit hole, I want to leave you
with a reminder.
Love is leading the charge ofKings and Chain.
It was only right that westarted this season rooted in

(02:13:39):
love because love is what willheal us.
Love is what will bring us backtogether.
And my prayer is that we alllearn how to love each other
again.
Be good.
Be safe.
Stay healthy.
And drink your water.
Water is life.
Peace.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Kings Unchained: Black Love, Unfiltered-Healing Wounds & Embracing Growth

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

All Episodes

Kings Unchained: Black Love, Unfiltered-Healing Wounds & Embracing Growth

Stuff You Should Know