It's the 22nd episode of Season 2 of the More Math for More People Podcast!
On this National Cereal Day, Joel and Misty hearken back to the days when they ate sugary cereals (this may be longer in the past for one of them than the other...) and discuss how they might celebrate today.
They also have a conversation with Tony Jones and Dan Henderson, from the Curriculum and Assessment Department about some of the instructional supports that are part of the recently launched Inspiring Connections curriculum, including elements from Building Thinking Classrooms.
It's a great episode so have fun!
Send Joel and Misty a message!
The More Math for More People Podcast is produced by CPM Educational Program.
Learn more at CPM.org
X: @cpmmath
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Email: cpmpodcast@cpm.org
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
misty_2_03-02-2023_1204 (00:00):
Welcome to episode 22 of Season two of
the More Math for More Peoplepodcast.
It is March 7th, 2023.
Cheers.
(00:27):
Hello everyone.
I'm Misty.
And I'm Joel.
And this is the more.
For more People.
Podcast brought to you by CPMEducational Program.
On this podcast, we discuss theCPM curriculum, trends in math
education, and share strategiesto shift instructional practices
to create a more inclusive andstudent-centered classroom.
We also highlight upcoming CPMprofessional learning
(00:49):
opportunities and haveconversations with math
educators about how they do whatthey do, and we always try to
have a little bit of fun andlaughter as well.
Indeed we do.
So come and find out whatshenanigans were up to on this
episode.
Boom.
Well, here we are again.
It is, I don't know, one of myfavorite segments of the
(01:12):
podcast.
I don't know about other people,but I think that I've heard, I
think you told me, Joel, thatsometimes people remember what
podcast it was by what theNational Day of was, more than
what we might have also beentalking about.
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (01:22):
I know.
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (01:23):
So, well, all right, so it is March
7th, and what is the NationalDay today?
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (01:30):
Today is National Cereal Day.
misty_2_03-02-2023_1204 (01:34):
Cereal.
Help me understand that.
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (01:37):
It says there isn't a person alive
who doesn't know a bowl ofcereal, a spoon, and some milk
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (01:42):
Okay, so Cereal, C E R E A L.
We need to make sure we, it isan audio podcast, so, oh, so
like milk and bowls of cerealday.
joel_22_03-02-2023_13042 (01:52):
That's right.
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (01:53):
Got it.
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (01:54):
It says that combination will equal
a party in your.
Snap, crackle, and pop your waythrough
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (02:00):
oh, come on.
So it's like a, it's, so it'snational Cereal day, but it's
also an advertisement.
You're telling
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (02:06):
Kind.
Well, I guess.
I guess they all kind of are,aren't they?
The
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (02:09):
so Well, I guess kind of yes, but
sometimes, you know, theadvertisement is not commercial.
Or maybe not commercial, I don'tknow.
But anyway.
Anyway, it's fine.
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (02:19):
Do you enjoy cereal?
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (02:21):
I don't eat very much cereal
anymore.
I think the only cereal,occasionally I will eat some,
some kind of cocoa crispy thing.
Usually it's like not the namebrand, it's some off brand, you
know, organic ones or whatever,like koala crisps or something
like that.
But, I don't, I didn't a lot ofcereal anymore.
I ate a lot of cereal when I wasa child, of course.
(02:44):
But there was always a struggleat my house because we were not
allowed to eat very much sugarycereals.
Cuz you know, this is kind oflike the eternal, well, I don't
know if it happened, beforethere was refined sugar.
It probably didn't happen inlike, I can imagine the cavemen,
they're like, don't eat thatsweet thing.
Right?
But like with refined sugar, itfeels like there's always this
battle between parents andchildren to prevent children
(03:06):
from eating as much sugar aspossible.
Cuz evolutionarily we have,children should eat a lot of
things.
They're like, I want to have alot of calories.
Right?
So they eat sugar.
And I remember when I was a kidit was always, we had boring
cereals.
I, I mean, well, Cheerios wasthe most
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (03:25):
Uh, I love Cheerio.
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (03:27):
mean Cheerios is okay, but Cheerios,
I mean, compared to my dad ateFrosted Flakes, but they were
only for my dad.
so we had Frosted Flakes in thehouse, but we didn't get to eat
them unless we asked Dad if wecould have some of them and we
get a tiny bowl or whatever.
And so, frosted Flakes versusCheerios is a lot of different
as a child, for me, I was like,and we were allowed to put some
sugar.
(03:48):
on our cereal, but we were onlyallowed to put a certain amount.
Right.
You can only put like onespoonful or something.
Right.
And I remember one time.
I was eating my Cheerios and myparents weren't around at the
time, so I must have putprobably a quarter cup of sugar
in my bowl.
I don't know, I just put a wholebunch of sugar in there cause I
thought it would make it evenbetter.
And I I think it was when Ifirst learned that some things,
(04:10):
that you can get a saturatedsolution, right?
So now everything dissolvesanymore.
So I had like about a quarterlike this, you know, quarter
inch of sugar on the bottom ofmy.
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (04:20):
did you eat it?
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (04:21):
and the well, and the milk was like
super, super sweet.
And I think I ate most of theCheerios, but then I was like,
oh, this is, and there's justtoo much sugar on the bottom.
I didn't wanna just eat thesugar plain.
I wanted it to make the Cheeriossweeter so I wasn't gonna drink
the milk cuz we always also,that was a requirement at my
house.
We had to drink the milk.
I don't think that's arequirement at every house, but
so I was then wanna drink themilk cuz.
(04:44):
All this sugar on the bottom.
And my parents of course, werelike, why aren't you finishing
your cereal line?
I was like, uh, I don't
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (04:50):
This is, this is a
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (04:51):
then, yeah.
And so then it was discoveredthat I had put all this sugar
into my cereal and then I wasrequired to finish it.
Like, it was like, now you needto finish all of this.
And it was gross.
It was gross.
Just eating this like milkysugar.
Yeah, I, it kind of cured mefrom putting a lot of sugar on
my cereals.
We used to like, I think one ofmy favorite cereals when I was a
(05:13):
kid was Lucky Charms.
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (05:15):
I love Lucky Charms.
Well, we, we grew up indifferent parts of the world,
and I would say that we've hadalmost the identical cereal
experiences as children.
misty_2_03-02-2023_12042 (05:27):
That's not too surprising.
We grew up in, you know, in asimilar timeframe of the world,
so,
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (05:32):
My mom also said no sugar cereals.
So we had grape nuts, we hadcream of wheat, we had oatmeal,
we had, I don't those areconsidered cereals, grits.
We would have.
Cheerios, we would have thosetypes of quote unquote healthy
cereals.
I guess I've also experimentedwith the too much sugar and
(05:55):
watch it just kind of, huh, it'sstill there, Now what am I gonna
do with that and as soon as Igot out of the house, meaning,
or I went to college, I moved toUtah in, in my early twenties, I
experimented with so many sugarcereals.
and I really love the LuckyCharms.
(06:17):
I really love the Lucky Charms,but I don't eat cereal like in
my current life.
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (06:22):
We never got, like, it was always
this, it was this weird thing.
I think mostly cuz we, didn't,we bought off brand cereals.
I think that was a big part ofit.
So we didn't, there were certainones we couldn't ever get, we
couldn't ever get FruityPebbles, you know, or like
certain ones that we wanted, butthey, you know, they didn't have
'em in the generic brand or, orthere were things that like
later, you know, I remember.
Cookie Crisp Cereal and CinnamonToast Crunch.
(06:46):
Like those are ones we, they,they never, they like they had
just come out, so there werenever generic brands for those,
so we didn't get any of those.
But yeah, that's cereal.
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (06:55):
And the commercials are really good
too.
Like they have characters, they
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (07:00):
oh, do they still have commercials
for cereal?
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (07:03):
Yeah.
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (07:04):
No, I don't see.
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (07:05):
Tony the tiger.
The Cheerios bee,
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (07:08):
All right.
So whatcha are you gonna do forNational Cereal Day then?
Joel
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (07:10):
I gu I guess I'll leave both cheer.
I, I mean this is one of those
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (07:13):
like a really, that's kind of like a,
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (07:15):
I,
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (07:15):
else would you do?
I mean, come on.
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (07:17):
what else am I gonna do?
I, I do remember Samantha was ina play one time, and I forget
the name of the kind of play,but entering into the play, you
got a bag of Cheerios and yougot to throw the Cheerios at the
actors during the show.
And so perhaps I'll go see ashow with some throwing
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (07:38):
you can throw cereal.
All right, sounds
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (07:41):
how about you?
How are you gonna.
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (07:42):
Well, I, you know, I might have
something like, you know, likecream of wheat or something
that, but not wheat, but likecream of rice or whatever.
That's not wheat.
But I like those kinds ofcereals still.
I do actually still eat oatmealy kinds of cereals, so I
might do that.
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (07:55):
I like it.
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (07:56):
All right, well go out and enjoy
National
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (07:59):
Enjoy your day
misty_1_03-02-2023_11303 (08:16):
right, so here we are with with Tony
Jones and Henderson, two of ourwriters on the writing team in
the curriculum and assessmentdepartment, and this is our
third segment of talking aboutinspiring connections.
So last, well, for us, last weekwhen you had listened to be a
couple weeks ago, but last we,at the conference, we launched
(08:37):
Inspiring Connections.
We also had a few sessions thatabout building thinking
classrooms, including ourkeynote was given by Peter And
building thinking classrooms isone of the elements, one of the
things that has been integrated.
and inspiring connections.
So we're here with Dan and Tonytoday to talk about what some of
those elements are and how theyreally kind of meld into
(09:00):
inspiring connections So,welcome to the podcast.
Joel (09:03):
Yeah, welcome back.
Dan (09:05):
Thanks.
Tony (09:06):
to be
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (09:07):
so let's just kind of talk about
what are some of the, some, whatare some of those instructional
practices that were elaboratedin building thinking classrooms
that are part like the reallykey features of inspiring
connections?
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (09:20):
Should we back up a step from that
first?
Should we back up and be whenyou think about the, the great
thing that is cpm, the, thething that makes it great.
Is that it's not just a pile ofproblems that are really good
and it's not just a pile teachermoves that are really good.
Track 1 (09:35):
Right.
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (09:37):
both of those things put together and
then a pile of pl on top of thatto make sure you know what
you're doing with that.
We didn't lose any of that.
We doubled down on all of that,but there's a bunch of research
that came out since that sort offound a way to incorporate and
rethink.
So that's what I mean.
Just step back up a second andthink about that.
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (09:58):
was a great summary.
it.
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (09:59):
we didn't just do building thinking
classrooms, like we includedrough draft talk.
the five practices are there.
We talked about the, theauthor's vision, what we call
the teacher notes now haveSuggestions for you know, what
you're looking for when you'remonitoring and what kind of
answers you might wannaanticipate and how you should
sequence things when they comeup and how you can connect'em,
all that stuff.
(10:20):
It's like all built in and thesame's true with all of the
other things.
So, I guess we did, we, built ina bunch of things that.
So I guess we could talk aboutbuilding in classrooms in
particular, but wanted to besituated in the context.
We did a bunch of other thingstoo.
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (10:35):
No, Noah,
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (10:36):
Tony, you got anything to add to that?
tony_1_03-02-2023_133031 (10:38):
Well now, and we've been adding on
and adapting for years since,you know, we started with
foundations making connections.
And as we get into coreconnections, we added the latest
research that we had and we werevery thoughtful and intentional
with inspiring connections tolook at the latest research,
what's best for students, what'sbest for teachers, as a way to
(11:01):
really make a curriculum thattruly brings more math and more
people in a way that impacts theclassroom beyond anything we've
done before.
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (11:10):
Yeah.
And a bunch of things like, noteven just academic research, We
looked at the Teacher researchcore and what they were doing a
bunch of research on number oftalks and math chats, things
like that.
Um, We added close lineactivities and some, which one
is unique in there?
And would you rather a bunch ofstuff to sort of bring all of
that current practice into thecurriculum so it's not an
add-on.
Like I gotta find a way tosqueeze it in here before the
(11:32):
lesson starts whatever it'sbuilt in.
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (11:34):
I don't think that's one of the
things that I see about it isthat, core Connections is a
great curriculum, but thesethings are newer than Core
connections.
have to try to add them in.
If you're going to do DOT talks,you're going to do, some of
these other things.
And Inspiring Connections isboth bringing those together
and, creating a lesson structurethat teachers can follow more
(11:56):
easily and to do those things.
that accurate?
tony_1_03-02-2023_133031 (11:59):
Yes.
Yes, it is.
The beauty of it is like I wason the TRC when we, I did two
years on number talks and howthey impacted my students in
seventh and eighth.
and now I had to go find allthose and create all those, like
now it's embedded within thecurriculum.
When you Open it up, there arenumber talks and the number
talks are threaded veryintentionally throughout the
(12:21):
course.
The dot talks the, which one isunique, like they're, they're
placed specifically at certain.
Based on the threading we wantedof what the progression was for
those activities.
So you don't have to go create'em.
You don't have to go find'em.
You don't have to buy newresources.
They're already there.
Track 1 (12:41):
Yeah.
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (12:42):
And they have that CPM spin on'em
too.
They have like the study teamteaching strategies are embedded
there you're not gonna find thatanywhere else.
Like this is where it's at.
Track 1 (12:51):
So, so with this new research so you were talking
about before you had to searchfor those things and bring them
in.
Now they're embedded Didanything stand out to you as
they're like a, wow, we hadn'tthought of this before, rather
than, we're just bringing allthe stuff that we've been
researching and putting it in.
Does that make sense?
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (13:11):
I think so I, it's interesting as a
writer to be like full-time andbe thinking about all the time,
there are things happening inclassrooms all over the world
that are interesting andthinking about what's.
useful.
What's the best thing to do?
How best to do I think we were,we were writing when we realized
about like slow reveal graphs,right?
(13:32):
I don't think any of us hadactually done that, but when we
saw it, we were like, oh, that'sso powerful.
And so we, so we set abouttrying to include because
they're just a really powerfulway to make sense of data.
Does that answer your question?
Track 1 (13:47):
I, I think so.
I, because I was looking forlike the, just an aha sort of,
wow, this is new.
And that's, I think what youjust described right there.
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (13:57):
I think I've, I, I think a lot of
writers, I was kind of an earlyadopter on the thinking
classrooms thing in terms of CPMwriters.
But I think a lot of writers aremore and more impressed the
longer we go through it.
Because it, just such a powerfulframe for how to run a
classroom.
tony_1_03-02-2023_133031 (14:16):
No, when, when they've seen it in
action too.
it was a theory in our minds,and when we see it in action and
see it happen in real time, Wow.
And, and we've had teachers inour sessions at the conference
who see it and act in real time,and now they're convinced they
go back and they implement it intheir classroom.
(14:36):
And, we, we've got texts andemails just in the last few days
telling us how impactful it wasand they're committed to doing
it, and they're seeing how it'schanging their classroom
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (14:46):
I wanna, bridge off of that.
So when you say committed todoing it, tell me what you mean
by that.
talking about building right?
And what, and bringing some ofthose elements.
so let's, so let's, I mean,everyone can go and read the
book and I don't wanna justreiterate what's in the book,
but what are some of the I don'tknow that we've just, we haven't
just taken BTC and plopped itall
tony_1_03-02-2023_133031 (15:07):
right.
No, no.
But the one, the one that, Imean, I was probably the least
convinced Dan.
A hundred percent in, and heconvinced me and I've seen it,
but so many teachers, visiblyrandom teams daily, and so many
teachers, and last year at theconference were like, I don't
know.
I'm not sold.
Like my team needs to gettogether and learn how to work
(15:29):
together and stay together for awhile.
And the thing we said to themwas two weeks, give us two
weeks.
Go back to your classroom everyday for two weeks and then talk
to us.
There is not one person, I mean,we're talking 25, 30 plus that.
I've encouraged to do that.
Not one of them wants to goback.
They want to do daily randomteams every single day.
(15:50):
They're convinced a hundredpercent of it.
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (15:52):
Yeah.
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (15:53):
I think that is one of the things
that when I first, I rememberwhen I first read it, I was
like, I mean, I was like, oh mygosh, that just sounds crazy and
that, but the more I read it,the more I understand the
reasons behind it, and I haveworked with teachers and
suggested to them the importanceof it being visible.
Right.
And why it has to be visible andrandom.
(16:14):
Cuz you know, they all the timethey're like, here's your random
teams.
I'm like, no, even, I can thereand say, no,
tony_1_03-02-2023_133031 (16:19):
you, you, you.
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (16:21):
so that piece of and getting
teachers to just do it moreoften, right?
But it's, but those little tinysteps in getting to it, and, and
I, I agree that pieces that arebenefits, I'm like, oh, that
does make sense.
You know,
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (16:34):
Yeah, a fun one because you get those
benefit.
The most when you make it happenmore often rather than less
often.
We were talking to Peter at aconference and he was saying
like early on, if you can do ittwice in a lesson, do it twice
in a lesson so that studentsreally do learn you can work
with anybody for 15 minutes.
It doesn't matter who you're,you're put with, we have faith.
(16:57):
You can do you can definitely doYou prove to yourself that you
can do it several times in thefirst week and then you're off
to the races.
tony_1_03-02-2023_133031 (17:05):
and it helps create equitable
classrooms, takes down thestatus issues.
Everybody knows, and, and aftera while, students come in, like
they're just, they all have towork.
They all understand.
They're responsible.
They don't, know, if you're withsomebody for six, eight weeks
and that person is really, youknow, for lack of a better word,
strong, you, you, you defer.
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (17:26):
Sure.
tony_1_03-02-2023_133031 (17:27):
Or you've always felt like you, you
weren't really good at math.
So I'm gonna sit back and I'lljust listen and somebody else
will do the work.
Like when you're random, everyday, even within a lesson you've
gotta add to your team.
misty_1_03-02-2023_1130 (17:39):
Mm-hmm.
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (17:40):
So the, the original question what is
it?
When we talked about it, and wesort talked about visibly around
their teams there, obviouslythere's 14 practices that he
talks about.
And we've done a pretty good jobembedding All or most of them at
least like we've writtenproblems specifically for
vertical, non-permanentservices, we've built in a,
random team generator in ourdigital platform.
(18:03):
We wrote hints and extensions insort of the right order.
In the author's vision, we'vegiven instructions for how to an
oral launch of things.
Our sample assessments Rubricsdesigned for feedback instead
get a score and throw it inthrash kind of thing.
Like, well, we, we thought hardabout a, a lot of the details
there.
Track 1 (18:21):
Yeah.
Tony (18:22):
Well, and we've considered, we, we've put in
questions to consider andthey're kind of those thinking
questions to keep the thinkinggoing.
So with each problem, we'veincluded some, not just in the
av, but right there, I mean,only the teacher sees but it's
like, how, how are you going torespond when your students do X,
Y, or z?
To think about that ahead oftime and what questions will you
(18:43):
ask?
To continue the thinking ratherthan just answering their
question.
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (18:48):
Yeah, and took cpm traditional things
like our study team strategies,and we said, well, how does
houses different in anenvironment where everyone is
standing with a random team?
misty_1_03-02-2023_1130 (18:57):
Mm-hmm.
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (18:58):
sort of thought through how that plays
out.
Track 1 (19:01):
So, so Tony, you kind of said that it's just the
teacher says it, but is it alsoembedded where students feel it
too?
Like, do they see that stuff oris it o only suggested teacher
notes?
tony_1_03-02-2023_133031 (19:13):
in that case, in what I'm talking
about is something that as inreal time as you are teaching
the class and you noticestudents doing something, Think
about what questions you willask them that will move them
ahead in their thinking.
So it's, it's from the teacherto help students.
I don't think it's visible, Dan.
You can correct me, but I don'tthink it's visible to the
(19:34):
students necessarily.
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (19:35):
Yeah, I don't think so.
But I was thinking like, Not totalk up the digital platform too
much, but like the, the pacingfeature in the digital platform
will allow you to do thingslike, I want you guys talking
about this question and now Igot a couple extra questions and
I can sort paste those out topeople when they want'em.
tony_1_03-02-2023_133031 (19:53):
Well, and, and I was doing one of the
lessons at the conference and Ipaste it.
and part B, they got it from a,I didn't need to even add part
B, so then I didn't ever revealthat in the pacing, and I went
on to the next problem, and it,it flowed beautifully and it
didn't make them just do onemore thing because I, the point
(20:13):
of the lesson and the hingequestion and everything I want
to get to was right there.
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (20:18):
Yeah.
We're gonna we're gonna spendsome time talking about the
digital platform in a futurepodcast a lot more,
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (20:24):
I, I won't, I won't oversell it I'm
talk about it.
But it's and they're gonna loveWhen we show it
tony_1_03-02-2023_1 (20:31):
foreshadow.
For
misty_1_03-02-2023_113 (20:32):
exactly.
We're
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (20:34):
how say math?
Yeah, it's amazing.
They're gonna
tony_1_03-02-2023_133031 (20:37):
right?
They're, they're gonna have tocome back and listen cuz it's
awesome.
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (20:41):
So what are some of the things that
we haven't talked about yet thatyou think that people should
know relative to theseinstructional strategies?
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (20:48):
I, I think one of the things that
kind of comes up is the, thenature of the research.
It's.
It's not like Peter lol thoughtup this theory of this is how a
classroom should be, and thenwent out and tried to like
implement that and see he writeup about They, they did a bunch
of experiments in classrooms tosee what led to more thinking,
(21:09):
and this is what came out.
And sometimes you can figure outa why, and sometimes you can't.
But the why doesn't reallymatter.
you know that game you play witha little baby?
My, my niece loves this gamewhere you take her and toss her
up in the air a couple inchesand you catch her and she's
really excited, throws her armsdown and goes, eh, you and you
play this game.
You don't need to know whygravity is gonna bring the baby
(21:30):
back down.
You just need to know that thebaby's gonna come back down to
plan for it.
you wanna catch the you're notworried it's gonna float off.
You don't need to know that.
Like quantum gravity and generalrelativity don't mesh.
You don't need to know that.
You don't need to worry.
The baby's gonna come back.
Same thing here.
You don't need to know why.
(21:50):
Just know that it does.
Try it.
Tell me I'm wrong.
Every time I argued with Peter,by the way, every time I was
wrong.
Every single time.
tony_1_03-02-2023_133031 (22:01):
Pretty we, we all
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (22:03):
all.
tony_1_03-02-2023_133031 (22:04):
No, but I, I think it's really
important too that, as we, Imean even like the v nps is it,
it really leads to rough draftthinking.
So we pushed the idea of gettingthem.
Working on vertical,non-permanent surfaces because
they do rough draft thinking.
They write, they erase, they tryagain.
know, And it's so much moreimpactful.
And I think, Dan, you've gotsome research on that that shows
(22:28):
the amount of time and how muchthey work, how much time to get
started, how much work they do,how long they spend at the
problem, when they're at that vnps, and not just sitting.
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (22:40):
Yeah, so we didn't talk about that,
but maybe we should it turns outlike where students work
matters, you know?
That's true because every timeyou're in a classroom and you
let a kid get up and write theiranswer on the board, they get
really excited and all the kidswant to do it.
Suddenly they wanna work.
Same thing's True.
When you just make them do theproblem on the whiteboard.
So they, they love it.
(23:00):
When will it all goes intoclassrooms and he is got this
beautiful table in his, in hisHe's got this beautiful table
When students aren't verticalsurfaces, you can see in this
column aren't vertical surfaceslike a poster board or a
whiteboard on the wall.
They're more eager to start.
Their time to task is lower.
They discuss for a lot longer.
and more students are involvedin that conversation.
(23:22):
And then if you make thatsurface erasable, they start
writing sooner, they try moreapproaches and they keep trying
for like twice as long.
So put'em together, vertical anderasable, you're off like it's
crazy.
So it's, it's that
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (23:39):
I remember too from that table
that there's also a bigdifference.
You can take vertical,non-permanent surface and you
make it horizontal and it stillis much like, takes much longer
for them to put something on itand they don't spend as much
time.
It's very interesting how justchanging its orientation even.
Because I of have those littlesmall whiteboards and things
like that that they have on thetables, which does help.
(24:00):
I mean, kids will write more onthat than they will on paper,
putting it on the making itvertical also adds to that.
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (24:08):
Yeah.
I think that was a big kind ofa, that wasn't as much of a
revelation for me because IPeter talking to me before, but
when I brought that to thewriting team, like Tony and I
went around on that one severaltimes.
He was this close.
But never got all the way todoing vertical, non-permanent
services and has been kickinghimself ever since.
(24:29):
imagine have done if you justgot him standing.
tony_1_03-02-2023_133031 (24:32):
know I had table, I had tabletops that
were whiteboard tabletops, notjust a little whiteboards, but a
full table and a team of four,and they would ride all over it
in a race and try all kinds ofstuff.
But I never thought to.
Tip that up and make them standwhy they did it.
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (24:49):
All right.
Last thoughts.
What are your last thoughts onthis?
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (24:52):
Do we have last thoughts?
I think everybody should readbuilding thinking classrooms
because like I said, every, likeyou hear Peter talk and you like
go to a session or you hear himonline or whatever, and you kind
of get the spiel.
And the spiel is basically takeanything that you've been doing
that you don't think is workingand flip it on its head.
Try that.
It's a good spiel.
(25:12):
But when you go to try you'lltry it like me and you.
Probably make some mistakes thatare kind of predictable.
And in the book he's got those,like, why you do this and here's
the research behind it.
And then he is got just gems qand a sections.
And like I said, it's it's likehe was in my room, like every
time it's like, oh, I tried thatand that did not work.
(25:34):
Like with the visibly randomcubes, like, oh, I can do like a
card from the top and a cardfrom the bottom to keep a couple
kids separate.
Then they catch onto that.
Right?
They know.
misty_1_03-02-2023_11303 (25:43):
Mm-hmm
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (25:44):
I'm just sending a message that I
don't believe they can worktogether.
I don't believe you're capable.
That's not a message I wannasend.
So make it truly visibly random.
Don't try to trick but it's theq and a is just full of great
stuff in every chapter.
Also, there's some fun mathproblems in there.
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (26:00):
There
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (26:01):
So if you're nerd like me, you'll
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (26:05):
Tony
tony_1_03-02-2023_133031 (26:06):
well in, in this case routines for
reasoning by K manic and Lunta.
I mean, I just, I find that onegreat because well-structured
routines and, and within thebuilding pinking classrooms, you
can still have well-structuredroutines that, support that and
work for there.
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (26:23):
Yeah, and that book does a good job of
like laying out there's likethree real paths that you can
take on any given problem thatline up with different
mathematical practices.
But the minute you start tryingto dictate what mathematical
practice a student does, you'vekind of locked them in.
But it does a really good jobyou can have a routine that
focuses on this kind of thing orthis kind of thing, and then you
(26:43):
can compare, which is supergreat.
They also have a website if youwant, like the super fast
version of things, but it'sfostering math practices.
But the book is, it's likebuilding, taking classrooms.
It's just full of gems ofknowledge.
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (26:57):
thank you very much for coming on the
podcast and filling our brainswith so many interesting
instructional stuff both, ininspiring connections and that
teachers could use for coreconnections if still using that
as well.
So it's a lot of good and gonnabe hearing a lot more about
inspiring connections over thenext few podcasts.
We still got a couple moreconversations to have to find
(27:20):
out about some of the otherelements of the program, so we
really appreciate that.
Track 1 (27:23):
Yeah, thanks for joining us.
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (27:25):
I hope some of it is useful.
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (27:28):
sure some of it will be useful
So that's a wrap for thisepisode of The More Math For
More People podcast, for moreinformation and to stay
(27:50):
connected.
You can find CPM on both Twitterand Facebook.
The music for the podcast wascreated by Julius h and can be
found on pxa bay.com.
Join us for the next episode ofMore Math for More People.
What day will that be, Joel?
It'll be March 21st, slither andBride Day.
I, I've always thought myselfmore of a Gryffindor and I can't
(28:13):
tell that's just because Ireally like Harry Potter and
relate to that character, ormaybe the Wesleys, but I've, I
have always thought of myself asa Gryffindor, so I'm really
excited to dive into.
Lither in Pride and reallyinvestigate and talk about that
house.
I, I don't also dunno much aboutthe Raven Claw or the
Hufflepuffs.
Draco was a, slither, was aslither.
(28:35):
Interesting to dive into thosecharacters.
Show Slither House Forward, seeMarch as pride for the house.
Welcome to episode 22 of Season two of
the More Math for More Peoplepodcast.
It is March 7th, 2023.
Cheers.
(00:27):
Hello everyone.
I'm Misty.
And I'm Joel.
And this is the more.
For more People.
Podcast brought to you by CPMEducational Program.
On this podcast, we discuss theCPM curriculum, trends in math
education, and share strategiesto shift instructional practices
to create a more inclusive andstudent-centered classroom.
We also highlight upcoming CPMprofessional learning
(00:49):
opportunities and haveconversations with math
educators about how they do whatthey do, and we always try to
have a little bit of fun andlaughter as well.
Indeed we do.
So come and find out whatshenanigans were up to on this
episode.
Boom.
Well, here we are again.
It is, I don't know, one of myfavorite segments of the
(01:12):
podcast.
I don't know about other people,but I think that I've heard, I
think you told me, Joel, thatsometimes people remember what
podcast it was by what theNational Day of was, more than
what we might have also beentalking about.
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (01:22):
I know.
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (01:23):
So, well, all right, so it is March
7th, and what is the NationalDay today?
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (01:30):
Today is National Cereal Day.
misty_2_03-02-2023_1204 (01:34):
Cereal.
Help me understand that.
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (01:37):
It says there isn't a person alive
who doesn't know a bowl ofcereal, a spoon, and some milk
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (01:42):
Okay, so Cereal, C E R E A L.
We need to make sure we, it isan audio podcast, so, oh, so
like milk and bowls of cerealday.
joel_22_03-02-2023_13042 (01:52):
That's right.
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (01:53):
Got it.
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (01:54):
It says that combination will equal
a party in your.
Snap, crackle, and pop your waythrough
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (02:00):
oh, come on.
So it's like a, it's, so it'snational Cereal day, but it's
also an advertisement.
You're telling
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (02:06):
Kind.
Well, I guess.
I guess they all kind of are,aren't they?
The
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (02:09):
so Well, I guess kind of yes, but
sometimes, you know, theadvertisement is not commercial.
Or maybe not commercial, I don'tknow.
But anyway.
Anyway, it's fine.
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (02:19):
Do you enjoy cereal?
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (02:21):
I don't eat very much cereal
anymore.
I think the only cereal,occasionally I will eat some,
some kind of cocoa crispy thing.
Usually it's like not the namebrand, it's some off brand, you
know, organic ones or whatever,like koala crisps or something
like that.
But, I don't, I didn't a lot ofcereal anymore.
I ate a lot of cereal when I wasa child, of course.
(02:44):
But there was always a struggleat my house because we were not
allowed to eat very much sugarycereals.
Cuz you know, this is kind oflike the eternal, well, I don't
know if it happened, beforethere was refined sugar.
It probably didn't happen inlike, I can imagine the cavemen,
they're like, don't eat thatsweet thing.
Right?
But like with refined sugar, itfeels like there's always this
battle between parents andchildren to prevent children
(03:06):
from eating as much sugar aspossible.
Cuz evolutionarily we have,children should eat a lot of
things.
They're like, I want to have alot of calories.
Right?
So they eat sugar.
And I remember when I was a kidit was always, we had boring
cereals.
I, I mean, well, Cheerios wasthe most
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (03:25):
Uh, I love Cheerio.
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (03:27):
mean Cheerios is okay, but Cheerios,
I mean, compared to my dad ateFrosted Flakes, but they were
only for my dad.
so we had Frosted Flakes in thehouse, but we didn't get to eat
them unless we asked Dad if wecould have some of them and we
get a tiny bowl or whatever.
And so, frosted Flakes versusCheerios is a lot of different
as a child, for me, I was like,and we were allowed to put some
sugar.
(03:48):
on our cereal, but we were onlyallowed to put a certain amount.
Right.
You can only put like onespoonful or something.
Right.
And I remember one time.
I was eating my Cheerios and myparents weren't around at the
time, so I must have putprobably a quarter cup of sugar
in my bowl.
I don't know, I just put a wholebunch of sugar in there cause I
thought it would make it evenbetter.
And I I think it was when Ifirst learned that some things,
(04:10):
that you can get a saturatedsolution, right?
So now everything dissolvesanymore.
So I had like about a quarterlike this, you know, quarter
inch of sugar on the bottom ofmy.
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (04:20):
did you eat it?
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (04:21):
and the well, and the milk was like
super, super sweet.
And I think I ate most of theCheerios, but then I was like,
oh, this is, and there's justtoo much sugar on the bottom.
I didn't wanna just eat thesugar plain.
I wanted it to make the Cheeriossweeter so I wasn't gonna drink
the milk cuz we always also,that was a requirement at my
house.
We had to drink the milk.
I don't think that's arequirement at every house, but
so I was then wanna drink themilk cuz.
(04:44):
All this sugar on the bottom.
And my parents of course, werelike, why aren't you finishing
your cereal line?
I was like, uh, I don't
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (04:50):
This is, this is a
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (04:51):
then, yeah.
And so then it was discoveredthat I had put all this sugar
into my cereal and then I wasrequired to finish it.
Like, it was like, now you needto finish all of this.
And it was gross.
It was gross.
Just eating this like milkysugar.
Yeah, I, it kind of cured mefrom putting a lot of sugar on
my cereals.
We used to like, I think one ofmy favorite cereals when I was a
(05:13):
kid was Lucky Charms.
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (05:15):
I love Lucky Charms.
Well, we, we grew up indifferent parts of the world,
and I would say that we've hadalmost the identical cereal
experiences as children.
misty_2_03-02-2023_12042 (05:27):
That's not too surprising.
We grew up in, you know, in asimilar timeframe of the world,
so,
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (05:32):
My mom also said no sugar cereals.
So we had grape nuts, we hadcream of wheat, we had oatmeal,
we had, I don't those areconsidered cereals, grits.
We would have.
Cheerios, we would have thosetypes of quote unquote healthy
cereals.
I guess I've also experimentedwith the too much sugar and
(05:55):
watch it just kind of, huh, it'sstill there, Now what am I gonna
do with that and as soon as Igot out of the house, meaning,
or I went to college, I moved toUtah in, in my early twenties, I
experimented with so many sugarcereals.
and I really love the LuckyCharms.
(06:17):
I really love the Lucky Charms,but I don't eat cereal like in
my current life.
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (06:22):
We never got, like, it was always
this, it was this weird thing.
I think mostly cuz we, didn't,we bought off brand cereals.
I think that was a big part ofit.
So we didn't, there were certainones we couldn't ever get, we
couldn't ever get FruityPebbles, you know, or like
certain ones that we wanted, butthey, you know, they didn't have
'em in the generic brand or, orthere were things that like
later, you know, I remember.
Cookie Crisp Cereal and CinnamonToast Crunch.
(06:46):
Like those are ones we, they,they never, they like they had
just come out, so there werenever generic brands for those,
so we didn't get any of those.
But yeah, that's cereal.
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (06:55):
And the commercials are really good
too.
Like they have characters, they
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (07:00):
oh, do they still have commercials
for cereal?
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (07:03):
Yeah.
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (07:04):
No, I don't see.
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (07:05):
Tony the tiger.
The Cheerios bee,
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (07:08):
All right.
So whatcha are you gonna do forNational Cereal Day then?
Joel
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (07:10):
I gu I guess I'll leave both cheer.
I, I mean this is one of those
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (07:13):
like a really, that's kind of like a,
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (07:15):
I,
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (07:15):
else would you do?
I mean, come on.
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (07:17):
what else am I gonna do?
I, I do remember Samantha was ina play one time, and I forget
the name of the kind of play,but entering into the play, you
got a bag of Cheerios and yougot to throw the Cheerios at the
actors during the show.
And so perhaps I'll go see ashow with some throwing
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (07:38):
you can throw cereal.
All right, sounds
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (07:41):
how about you?
How are you gonna.
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (07:42):
Well, I, you know, I might have
something like, you know, likecream of wheat or something
that, but not wheat, but likecream of rice or whatever.
That's not wheat.
But I like those kinds ofcereals still.
I do actually still eat oatmealy kinds of cereals, so I
might do that.
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (07:55):
I like it.
misty_2_03-02-2023_120429 (07:56):
All right, well go out and enjoy
National
joel_22_03-02-2023_130429 (07:59):
Enjoy your day
misty_1_03-02-2023_11303 (08:16):
right, so here we are with with Tony
Jones and Henderson, two of ourwriters on the writing team in
the curriculum and assessmentdepartment, and this is our
third segment of talking aboutinspiring connections.
So last, well, for us, last weekwhen you had listened to be a
couple weeks ago, but last we,at the conference, we launched
(08:37):
Inspiring Connections.
We also had a few sessions thatabout building thinking
classrooms, including ourkeynote was given by Peter And
building thinking classrooms isone of the elements, one of the
things that has been integrated.
and inspiring connections.
So we're here with Dan and Tonytoday to talk about what some of
those elements are and how theyreally kind of meld into
(09:00):
inspiring connections So,welcome to the podcast.
Joel (09:03):
Yeah, welcome back.
Dan (09:05):
Thanks.
Tony (09:06):
to be
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (09:07):
so let's just kind of talk about
what are some of the, some, whatare some of those instructional
practices that were elaboratedin building thinking classrooms
that are part like the reallykey features of inspiring
connections?
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (09:20):
Should we back up a step from that
first?
Should we back up and be whenyou think about the, the great
thing that is cpm, the, thething that makes it great.
Is that it's not just a pile ofproblems that are really good
and it's not just a pile teachermoves that are really good.
Track 1 (09:35):
Right.
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (09:37):
both of those things put together and
then a pile of pl on top of thatto make sure you know what
you're doing with that.
We didn't lose any of that.
We doubled down on all of that,but there's a bunch of research
that came out since that sort offound a way to incorporate and
rethink.
So that's what I mean.
Just step back up a second andthink about that.
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (09:58):
was a great summary.
it.
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (09:59):
we didn't just do building thinking
classrooms, like we includedrough draft talk.
the five practices are there.
We talked about the, theauthor's vision, what we call
the teacher notes now haveSuggestions for you know, what
you're looking for when you'remonitoring and what kind of
answers you might wannaanticipate and how you should
sequence things when they comeup and how you can connect'em,
all that stuff.
(10:20):
It's like all built in and thesame's true with all of the
other things.
So, I guess we did, we, built ina bunch of things that.
So I guess we could talk aboutbuilding in classrooms in
particular, but wanted to besituated in the context.
We did a bunch of other thingstoo.
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (10:35):
No, Noah,
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (10:36):
Tony, you got anything to add to that?
tony_1_03-02-2023_133031 (10:38):
Well now, and we've been adding on
and adapting for years since,you know, we started with
foundations making connections.
And as we get into coreconnections, we added the latest
research that we had and we werevery thoughtful and intentional
with inspiring connections tolook at the latest research,
what's best for students, what'sbest for teachers, as a way to
(11:01):
really make a curriculum thattruly brings more math and more
people in a way that impacts theclassroom beyond anything we've
done before.
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (11:10):
Yeah.
And a bunch of things like, noteven just academic research, We
looked at the Teacher researchcore and what they were doing a
bunch of research on number oftalks and math chats, things
like that.
Um, We added close lineactivities and some, which one
is unique in there?
And would you rather a bunch ofstuff to sort of bring all of
that current practice into thecurriculum so it's not an
add-on.
Like I gotta find a way tosqueeze it in here before the
(11:32):
lesson starts whatever it'sbuilt in.
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (11:34):
I don't think that's one of the
things that I see about it isthat, core Connections is a
great curriculum, but thesethings are newer than Core
connections.
have to try to add them in.
If you're going to do DOT talks,you're going to do, some of
these other things.
And Inspiring Connections isboth bringing those together
and, creating a lesson structurethat teachers can follow more
(11:56):
easily and to do those things.
that accurate?
tony_1_03-02-2023_133031 (11:59):
Yes.
Yes, it is.
The beauty of it is like I wason the TRC when we, I did two
years on number talks and howthey impacted my students in
seventh and eighth.
and now I had to go find allthose and create all those, like
now it's embedded within thecurriculum.
When you Open it up, there arenumber talks and the number
talks are threaded veryintentionally throughout the
(12:21):
course.
The dot talks the, which one isunique, like they're, they're
placed specifically at certain.
Based on the threading we wantedof what the progression was for
those activities.
So you don't have to go create'em.
You don't have to go find'em.
You don't have to buy newresources.
They're already there.
Track 1 (12:41):
Yeah.
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (12:42):
And they have that CPM spin on'em
too.
They have like the study teamteaching strategies are embedded
there you're not gonna find thatanywhere else.
Like this is where it's at.
Track 1 (12:51):
So, so with this new research so you were talking
about before you had to searchfor those things and bring them
in.
Now they're embedded Didanything stand out to you as
they're like a, wow, we hadn'tthought of this before, rather
than, we're just bringing allthe stuff that we've been
researching and putting it in.
Does that make sense?
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (13:11):
I think so I, it's interesting as a
writer to be like full-time andbe thinking about all the time,
there are things happening inclassrooms all over the world
that are interesting andthinking about what's.
useful.
What's the best thing to do?
How best to do I think we were,we were writing when we realized
about like slow reveal graphs,right?
(13:32):
I don't think any of us hadactually done that, but when we
saw it, we were like, oh, that'sso powerful.
And so we, so we set abouttrying to include because
they're just a really powerfulway to make sense of data.
Does that answer your question?
Track 1 (13:47):
I, I think so.
I, because I was looking forlike the, just an aha sort of,
wow, this is new.
And that's, I think what youjust described right there.
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (13:57):
I think I've, I, I think a lot of
writers, I was kind of an earlyadopter on the thinking
classrooms thing in terms of CPMwriters.
But I think a lot of writers aremore and more impressed the
longer we go through it.
Because it, just such a powerfulframe for how to run a
classroom.
tony_1_03-02-2023_133031 (14:16):
No, when, when they've seen it in
action too.
it was a theory in our minds,and when we see it in action and
see it happen in real time, Wow.
And, and we've had teachers inour sessions at the conference
who see it and act in real time,and now they're convinced they
go back and they implement it intheir classroom.
(14:36):
And, we, we've got texts andemails just in the last few days
telling us how impactful it wasand they're committed to doing
it, and they're seeing how it'schanging their classroom
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (14:46):
I wanna, bridge off of that.
So when you say committed todoing it, tell me what you mean
by that.
talking about building right?
And what, and bringing some ofthose elements.
so let's, so let's, I mean,everyone can go and read the
book and I don't wanna justreiterate what's in the book,
but what are some of the I don'tknow that we've just, we haven't
just taken BTC and plopped itall
tony_1_03-02-2023_133031 (15:07):
right.
No, no.
But the one, the one that, Imean, I was probably the least
convinced Dan.
A hundred percent in, and heconvinced me and I've seen it,
but so many teachers, visiblyrandom teams daily, and so many
teachers, and last year at theconference were like, I don't
know.
I'm not sold.
Like my team needs to gettogether and learn how to work
(15:29):
together and stay together for awhile.
And the thing we said to themwas two weeks, give us two
weeks.
Go back to your classroom everyday for two weeks and then talk
to us.
There is not one person, I mean,we're talking 25, 30 plus that.
I've encouraged to do that.
Not one of them wants to goback.
They want to do daily randomteams every single day.
(15:50):
They're convinced a hundredpercent of it.
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (15:52):
Yeah.
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (15:53):
I think that is one of the things
that when I first, I rememberwhen I first read it, I was
like, I mean, I was like, oh mygosh, that just sounds crazy and
that, but the more I read it,the more I understand the
reasons behind it, and I haveworked with teachers and
suggested to them the importanceof it being visible.
Right.
And why it has to be visible andrandom.
(16:14):
Cuz you know, they all the timethey're like, here's your random
teams.
I'm like, no, even, I can thereand say, no,
tony_1_03-02-2023_133031 (16:19):
you, you, you.
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (16:21):
so that piece of and getting
teachers to just do it moreoften, right?
But it's, but those little tinysteps in getting to it, and, and
I, I agree that pieces that arebenefits, I'm like, oh, that
does make sense.
You know,
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (16:34):
Yeah, a fun one because you get those
benefit.
The most when you make it happenmore often rather than less
often.
We were talking to Peter at aconference and he was saying
like early on, if you can do ittwice in a lesson, do it twice
in a lesson so that studentsreally do learn you can work
with anybody for 15 minutes.
It doesn't matter who you're,you're put with, we have faith.
(16:57):
You can do you can definitely doYou prove to yourself that you
can do it several times in thefirst week and then you're off
to the races.
tony_1_03-02-2023_133031 (17:05):
and it helps create equitable
classrooms, takes down thestatus issues.
Everybody knows, and, and aftera while, students come in, like
they're just, they all have towork.
They all understand.
They're responsible.
They don't, know, if you're withsomebody for six, eight weeks
and that person is really, youknow, for lack of a better word,
strong, you, you, you defer.
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (17:26):
Sure.
tony_1_03-02-2023_133031 (17:27):
Or you've always felt like you, you
weren't really good at math.
So I'm gonna sit back and I'lljust listen and somebody else
will do the work.
Like when you're random, everyday, even within a lesson you've
gotta add to your team.
misty_1_03-02-2023_1130 (17:39):
Mm-hmm.
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (17:40):
So the, the original question what is
it?
When we talked about it, and wesort talked about visibly around
their teams there, obviouslythere's 14 practices that he
talks about.
And we've done a pretty good jobembedding All or most of them at
least like we've writtenproblems specifically for
vertical, non-permanentservices, we've built in a,
random team generator in ourdigital platform.
(18:03):
We wrote hints and extensions insort of the right order.
In the author's vision, we'vegiven instructions for how to an
oral launch of things.
Our sample assessments Rubricsdesigned for feedback instead
get a score and throw it inthrash kind of thing.
Like, well, we, we thought hardabout a, a lot of the details
there.
Track 1 (18:21):
Yeah.
Tony (18:22):
Well, and we've considered, we, we've put in
questions to consider andthey're kind of those thinking
questions to keep the thinkinggoing.
So with each problem, we'veincluded some, not just in the
av, but right there, I mean,only the teacher sees but it's
like, how, how are you going torespond when your students do X,
Y, or z?
To think about that ahead oftime and what questions will you
(18:43):
ask?
To continue the thinking ratherthan just answering their
question.
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (18:48):
Yeah, and took cpm traditional things
like our study team strategies,and we said, well, how does
houses different in anenvironment where everyone is
standing with a random team?
misty_1_03-02-2023_1130 (18:57):
Mm-hmm.
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (18:58):
sort of thought through how that plays
out.
Track 1 (19:01):
So, so Tony, you kind of said that it's just the
teacher says it, but is it alsoembedded where students feel it
too?
Like, do they see that stuff oris it o only suggested teacher
notes?
tony_1_03-02-2023_133031 (19:13):
in that case, in what I'm talking
about is something that as inreal time as you are teaching
the class and you noticestudents doing something, Think
about what questions you willask them that will move them
ahead in their thinking.
So it's, it's from the teacherto help students.
I don't think it's visible, Dan.
You can correct me, but I don'tthink it's visible to the
(19:34):
students necessarily.
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (19:35):
Yeah, I don't think so.
But I was thinking like, Not totalk up the digital platform too
much, but like the, the pacingfeature in the digital platform
will allow you to do thingslike, I want you guys talking
about this question and now Igot a couple extra questions and
I can sort paste those out topeople when they want'em.
tony_1_03-02-2023_133031 (19:53):
Well, and, and I was doing one of the
lessons at the conference and Ipaste it.
and part B, they got it from a,I didn't need to even add part
B, so then I didn't ever revealthat in the pacing, and I went
on to the next problem, and it,it flowed beautifully and it
didn't make them just do onemore thing because I, the point
(20:13):
of the lesson and the hingequestion and everything I want
to get to was right there.
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (20:18):
Yeah.
We're gonna we're gonna spendsome time talking about the
digital platform in a futurepodcast a lot more,
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (20:24):
I, I won't, I won't oversell it I'm
talk about it.
But it's and they're gonna loveWhen we show it
tony_1_03-02-2023_1 (20:31):
foreshadow.
For
misty_1_03-02-2023_113 (20:32):
exactly.
We're
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (20:34):
how say math?
Yeah, it's amazing.
They're gonna
tony_1_03-02-2023_133031 (20:37):
right?
They're, they're gonna have tocome back and listen cuz it's
awesome.
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (20:41):
So what are some of the things that
we haven't talked about yet thatyou think that people should
know relative to theseinstructional strategies?
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (20:48):
I, I think one of the things that
kind of comes up is the, thenature of the research.
It's.
It's not like Peter lol thoughtup this theory of this is how a
classroom should be, and thenwent out and tried to like
implement that and see he writeup about They, they did a bunch
of experiments in classrooms tosee what led to more thinking,
(21:09):
and this is what came out.
And sometimes you can figure outa why, and sometimes you can't.
But the why doesn't reallymatter.
you know that game you play witha little baby?
My, my niece loves this gamewhere you take her and toss her
up in the air a couple inchesand you catch her and she's
really excited, throws her armsdown and goes, eh, you and you
play this game.
You don't need to know whygravity is gonna bring the baby
(21:30):
back down.
You just need to know that thebaby's gonna come back down to
plan for it.
you wanna catch the you're notworried it's gonna float off.
You don't need to know that.
Like quantum gravity and generalrelativity don't mesh.
You don't need to know that.
You don't need to worry.
The baby's gonna come back.
Same thing here.
You don't need to know why.
(21:50):
Just know that it does.
Try it.
Tell me I'm wrong.
Every time I argued with Peter,by the way, every time I was
wrong.
Every single time.
tony_1_03-02-2023_133031 (22:01):
Pretty we, we all
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (22:03):
all.
tony_1_03-02-2023_133031 (22:04):
No, but I, I think it's really
important too that, as we, Imean even like the v nps is it,
it really leads to rough draftthinking.
So we pushed the idea of gettingthem.
Working on vertical,non-permanent surfaces because
they do rough draft thinking.
They write, they erase, they tryagain.
know, And it's so much moreimpactful.
And I think, Dan, you've gotsome research on that that shows
(22:28):
the amount of time and how muchthey work, how much time to get
started, how much work they do,how long they spend at the
problem, when they're at that vnps, and not just sitting.
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (22:40):
Yeah, so we didn't talk about that,
but maybe we should it turns outlike where students work
matters, you know?
That's true because every timeyou're in a classroom and you
let a kid get up and write theiranswer on the board, they get
really excited and all the kidswant to do it.
Suddenly they wanna work.
Same thing's True.
When you just make them do theproblem on the whiteboard.
So they, they love it.
(23:00):
When will it all goes intoclassrooms and he is got this
beautiful table in his, in hisHe's got this beautiful table
When students aren't verticalsurfaces, you can see in this
column aren't vertical surfaceslike a poster board or a
whiteboard on the wall.
They're more eager to start.
Their time to task is lower.
They discuss for a lot longer.
and more students are involvedin that conversation.
(23:22):
And then if you make thatsurface erasable, they start
writing sooner, they try moreapproaches and they keep trying
for like twice as long.
So put'em together, vertical anderasable, you're off like it's
crazy.
So it's, it's that
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (23:39):
I remember too from that table
that there's also a bigdifference.
You can take vertical,non-permanent surface and you
make it horizontal and it stillis much like, takes much longer
for them to put something on itand they don't spend as much
time.
It's very interesting how justchanging its orientation even.
Because I of have those littlesmall whiteboards and things
like that that they have on thetables, which does help.
(24:00):
I mean, kids will write more onthat than they will on paper,
putting it on the making itvertical also adds to that.
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (24:08):
Yeah.
I think that was a big kind ofa, that wasn't as much of a
revelation for me because IPeter talking to me before, but
when I brought that to thewriting team, like Tony and I
went around on that one severaltimes.
He was this close.
But never got all the way todoing vertical, non-permanent
services and has been kickinghimself ever since.
(24:29):
imagine have done if you justgot him standing.
tony_1_03-02-2023_133031 (24:32):
know I had table, I had tabletops that
were whiteboard tabletops, notjust a little whiteboards, but a
full table and a team of four,and they would ride all over it
in a race and try all kinds ofstuff.
But I never thought to.
Tip that up and make them standwhy they did it.
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (24:49):
All right.
Last thoughts.
What are your last thoughts onthis?
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (24:52):
Do we have last thoughts?
I think everybody should readbuilding thinking classrooms
because like I said, every, likeyou hear Peter talk and you like
go to a session or you hear himonline or whatever, and you kind
of get the spiel.
And the spiel is basically takeanything that you've been doing
that you don't think is workingand flip it on its head.
Try that.
It's a good spiel.
(25:12):
But when you go to try you'lltry it like me and you.
Probably make some mistakes thatare kind of predictable.
And in the book he's got those,like, why you do this and here's
the research behind it.
And then he is got just gems qand a sections.
And like I said, it's it's likehe was in my room, like every
time it's like, oh, I tried thatand that did not work.
(25:34):
Like with the visibly randomcubes, like, oh, I can do like a
card from the top and a cardfrom the bottom to keep a couple
kids separate.
Then they catch onto that.
Right?
They know.
misty_1_03-02-2023_11303 (25:43):
Mm-hmm
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (25:44):
I'm just sending a message that I
don't believe they can worktogether.
I don't believe you're capable.
That's not a message I wannasend.
So make it truly visibly random.
Don't try to trick but it's theq and a is just full of great
stuff in every chapter.
Also, there's some fun mathproblems in there.
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (26:00):
There
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (26:01):
So if you're nerd like me, you'll
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (26:05):
Tony
tony_1_03-02-2023_133031 (26:06):
well in, in this case routines for
reasoning by K manic and Lunta.
I mean, I just, I find that onegreat because well-structured
routines and, and within thebuilding pinking classrooms, you
can still have well-structuredroutines that, support that and
work for there.
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (26:23):
Yeah, and that book does a good job of
like laying out there's likethree real paths that you can
take on any given problem thatline up with different
mathematical practices.
But the minute you start tryingto dictate what mathematical
practice a student does, you'vekind of locked them in.
But it does a really good jobyou can have a routine that
focuses on this kind of thing orthis kind of thing, and then you
(26:43):
can compare, which is supergreat.
They also have a website if youwant, like the super fast
version of things, but it'sfostering math practices.
But the book is, it's likebuilding, taking classrooms.
It's just full of gems ofknowledge.
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (26:57):
thank you very much for coming on the
podcast and filling our brainswith so many interesting
instructional stuff both, ininspiring connections and that
teachers could use for coreconnections if still using that
as well.
So it's a lot of good and gonnabe hearing a lot more about
inspiring connections over thenext few podcasts.
We still got a couple moreconversations to have to find
(27:20):
out about some of the otherelements of the program, so we
really appreciate that.
Track 1 (27:23):
Yeah, thanks for joining us.
dan_1_03-02-2023_143031 (27:25):
I hope some of it is useful.
misty_1_03-02-2023_113032 (27:28):
sure some of it will be useful
So that's a wrap for thisepisode of The More Math For
More People podcast, for moreinformation and to stay
(27:50):
connected.
You can find CPM on both Twitterand Facebook.
The music for the podcast wascreated by Julius h and can be
found on pxa bay.com.
Join us for the next episode ofMore Math for More People.
What day will that be, Joel?
It'll be March 21st, slither andBride Day.
I, I've always thought myselfmore of a Gryffindor and I can't
(28:13):
tell that's just because Ireally like Harry Potter and
relate to that character, ormaybe the Wesleys, but I've, I
have always thought of myself asa Gryffindor, so I'm really
excited to dive into.
Lither in Pride and reallyinvestigate and talk about that
house.
I, I don't also dunno much aboutthe Raven Claw or the
Hufflepuffs.
Draco was a, slither, was aslither.
(28:35):
Interesting to dive into thosecharacters.
Show Slither House Forward, seeMarch as pride for the house.
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