November 18, 2025 • 48 mins
Start with a name and you get a story. We kick off with Latvian Independence Day and our colleague, Astrida Lizins, whose Latvian name, family roots, and community traditions open a window into how culture survives and thrives far from home. From Saturday language schools and summer camps to folk dance sets and dense rye bread, we explore how rituals and food build belonging—and why that matters when we think about classrooms.
That bridge takes us to timely news from California’s curriculum adoption (CPM is on the list!) and a bigger conversation about high-quality instructional materials with our executive director, Rafael del Castillo. We compare research-based claims with evidence gathered by real teachers, and we unpack a clever “shopping guide” from a recent NCTM conference: Are frameworks empowering educators to ask better questions, or inviting polished talking points that dodge substance? Our take centers teacher voice and professional judgment while acknowledging the real pressures on time, attention, and support.
Assessment and technology become the crucible where values show up. We wrestle with efficiency versus understanding, the limits of Scantron-era shortcuts, and where modern AI can help without hollowing out the work. Instead of outsourcing thinking, we propose smarter feedback loops, more student self-assessment, and classroom routines that make space for curiosity. Along the way, we reframe “grade level,” embrace heterogeneous classes as the norm, and borrow early childhood wisdom: arrive with wonder, meet the learner in front of you, and build the dance together.
If this conversation resonates, follow the show, share it with a colleague, and leave a review with one insight you’re taking back to your classroom. Your voice helps more educators find the ideas that move their teaching forward.
Send Joel and Misty a message!
The More Math for More People Podcast is produced by CPM Educational Program.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (00:17):
You are listening to the More Math for More People
podcast, an outreach CPMeducational program.
Boom.
SPEAKER_02 (00:31):
Hey Joel.
SPEAKER_03 (00:32):
Hey.
SPEAKER_02 (00:33):
It's November 18th.
SPEAKER_03 (00:35):
Sure is.
SPEAKER_02 (00:36):
And we have a special guest.
I was going to say special gueststar.
We have a special guest on todayfor our day of because it is
Latvian Independence Day.
SPEAKER_03 (00:47):
Correct.
SPEAKER_02 (00:48):
And we happen to know someone who is Latvian.
SPEAKER_03 (00:51):
I know.
SPEAKER_02 (00:52):
Isn't that cool?
SPEAKER_03 (00:53):
That's way cool.
SPEAKER_02 (00:54):
I know.
So welcome to the podcast,Estrida.
Welcome.
So this is Ostrita Lizens.
She's gonna tell us how to sayher name in Latvian in a moment,
who is one of our coworkers hereat CPM.
Yeah.
So Estrida, we were asking aboutyour name, and you were saying
that that's not how you say itin Latvian.
So now we need to hear how yousay it in Latvian.
SPEAKER_01 (01:15):
In Latvian, my name is Estodido Lizengs.
SPEAKER_04 (01:19):
Ooh.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:21):
That's kind of cool.
SPEAKER_03 (01:22):
That is cool.
I like it.
SPEAKER_02 (01:25):
Why is it one of those, was it was it like
officially changed, or you justmake it easier for all of us to
say it?
Kind of a thing.
Sorry.
SPEAKER_01 (01:33):
We make it easier for everyone.
Because there are sounds thatyour tongues just aren't used to
making.
And it's absolutely yeah.
It would be difficult.
SPEAKER_03 (01:43):
So like on uh uh like a driver's license?
Is it s is it spelled for us orspelled for Latvia?
SPEAKER_01 (01:52):
Oh for the driver's license here, it's spelled in
English.
unknown (01:56):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (01:56):
Is that spelled different in Latvian then?
It the only difference is islike the I has a long I, so we
put like a line over it toindicate it's a long I, and the
N is a soft N, so there's like asymbol to show that it's a soft
N, and the S the SH has asymbol.
But otherwise all the lettersare the same.
SPEAKER_02 (02:15):
That's cool.
We were learning so much aboutLatvia already.
SPEAKER_03 (02:20):
I know.
I one of my favorite storiesabout working with you is you
and your husband were uh drivingus around Montana, I believe,
and uh used the GPS in Latvianso that we could get around.
SPEAKER_02 (02:38):
I have a memory of that too.
When we were in I think it waswhen we were in Boise.
And we were driving aroundbecause I remember we were like,
we at one point we were like,aha, we know what the word for
right is.
We couldn't say it very well.
I don't even get and I don'tremember it now.
It was years ago.
SPEAKER_03 (02:56):
So is this a holiday that you celebrate?
SPEAKER_01 (02:59):
Well, the community, Latvian communities celebrate
them.
Yes.
Um, unfortunately, in Latvia itis always celebrated.
Not not unfortunate, in Latviait is always celebrated on the
18th.
Uh nobody has to work, and it'scelebrated on the 18th, sort of
like July 4th is celebratedhere.
SPEAKER_04 (03:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:17):
But for the Latvian communities here, we don't get
off on the 18th.
So we usually celebrate uh aweekend before, like a Saturday
or Sunday before or after,depending upon our unity and the
dates.
SPEAKER_04 (03:28):
Awesome.
SPEAKER_01 (03:29):
Nice.
So so when did Latvianindependence happen?
1918.
unknown (03:35):
Oh.
SPEAKER_01 (03:36):
It was proclaimed as a Republic of Latvia and had
regained its freedom from theGerman occupation.
And it then in 1940, the SovietUnion occupied occupied it in
World War II.
But then it once uh the IronCurtain fell in 1990, then it
was restored back to theRepublic of Latvia.
(03:57):
Wow, so like 50 years underRussian control.
Yeah, basically.
SPEAKER_02 (04:03):
Wow.
That's exciting.
So what uh the were you okay?
So I don't even know the answerto this question.
Were you born in Latvia?
SPEAKER_01 (04:10):
No.
SPEAKER_02 (04:11):
I'm first generation here in America.
SPEAKER_04 (04:13):
Awesome.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (04:14):
And so you grew up speaking Latvian.
And I mean, I know you do a lotof Latvian culture things.
Can you tell us about some ofthem?
SPEAKER_01 (04:21):
Yes, I spoke up speaking Latvian at home.
Both my parents were born inLatvia.
My husband's parents also wereborn in Latvia.
So my husband and I speakLatvian, and all three of our
children speak Latvian.
My growing up, I went to Latvianschool on Saturdays.
It was usually most of theLatvian schools are associated
(04:43):
with a Latvian church in a cityin some area.
In most of the larger cities,there's a Latvian church, and
then there's a Latvian school.
And my children also went toLatvian school growing up.
So we went to school six days aweek, not five days a week.
And summers were spent atLatvian camps.
Um, there's I'm on the EastCoast.
Um I live outside ofPhiladelphia.
(05:04):
There's a Latvian camp propertyin the Catskills that I went to
as a child and then was campdirector for a while, and then
my children went there.
And one of my biggest umpassions and work with the
Latvian society is folk dancing.
And I've been running theLatvian folk dance group here in
(05:26):
Philadelphia for 35 years.
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (05:31):
What is Latvian folk folk dancing like?
SPEAKER_01 (05:34):
Can you describe it?
It's similar if you know IrishCayley dancing.
It's similar to Irish Cayleydancing, in which you have
either four couples or eightcouples or six couples.
And it's the music is usually apolka rhythm.
And so we it's more like atraditional Kaylee, like Irish
(05:55):
Cayley, in that not similar, butsimilar but different.
SPEAKER_03 (05:58):
Is it is that year-round or is that seasonal?
SPEAKER_01 (06:01):
I give my dancers a break during the summer only
with a break.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (06:08):
And do you go to like competitions or like fairs,
or like where do you do thedancing?
SPEAKER_01 (06:12):
We don't compete.
We are song festivals, song anddance festivals, Latvian song
and dance festivals.
And um, we participate in thosetogether with other Latvian
groups, and then we do often ata November 18th.
So then a folk dance group mightbe performing for their
community.
Or we do like I we were just myfolk dance group just
(06:36):
participated in a World HeritageFair that had dancers from all
different countries performing.
Nice.
Nice.
SPEAKER_02 (06:45):
And I mean, I I'm pretty sure I've known I know
you've gone to Latvia severaltimes since I've known you.
Do you go back?
Do you go to Latvia like everyyear or do you go very often?
SPEAKER_01 (06:55):
Before we had children, my husband and I went
there more often.
SPEAKER_04 (06:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:00):
Once we had children, it got a little
expensive to go there.
We try to go every two, threeyears at least.
Awesome.
So so if we were gonna go toLatvia, where should we go?
Where would you recommend us?
Oh the capital city, Riga, isabsolutely beautiful.
Um, the capital city is morethan 800 years old.
The old part of the city is justamazing and beautiful, and there
(07:23):
is so much to do and see in thecity itself.
SPEAKER_02 (07:29):
Is is Latvia mostly like hilly and mountains, or is
it like flat and or is it reallyjust a mix?
It's really not hilly at all.
SPEAKER_01 (07:37):
Oh it's relatively flat.
Well, it's relatively flat.
A lot once you're outside of thecity country, a lot of farm.
So interesting.
SPEAKER_03 (07:48):
So you you uh said earlier that you went to school
six days a week.
What what's the philosophybehind that?
SPEAKER_01 (07:56):
Well, I mean, school was on Saturdays.
SPEAKER_03 (07:59):
Oh.
An extra day.
I got it.
I just thought I I I thought itwas six days versus five, and I
was wondering.
SPEAKER_01 (08:09):
Extra day, extra day of the week that we had to go to
school.
SPEAKER_03 (08:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:13):
Well, all my friends were at home watching cartoons
on TV early in the morning.
SPEAKER_03 (08:17):
No, no.
SPEAKER_01 (08:18):
My mom was butting me in the car and driving me to
Latvian school.
SPEAKER_03 (08:22):
Good.
I like your mom.
I'm a proponent of more school.
So that's good.
So this says one of the ways tocelebrate Latvia Independence
Day is to eat like a local.
So what would we need to do toeat like a local?
SPEAKER_01 (08:40):
Well, they have some.
There's a it's actually a yeastdough filled with bacon and
onions called the pead's.
And they're very tedious tomake.
So whenever you go somewhere,everybody sort of grabs onto
them and eats them up quickly.
Um so we have the pead, we ifyou're looking for a typical
(09:02):
meal, we are more of a meat andpotatoes because we are mostly
farmlands.
So a lot of meat potatoes withgravies would be like a typical,
typical meal type of thing.
But there are some the pea dogare the big ones.
SPEAKER_03 (09:17):
Okay.
I I'm gonna share with you whatmy sources say.
Yeah.
The sources are suspectsometimes, let's be clear.
They say rye bread.
SPEAKER_01 (09:27):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (09:28):
Beet root soup.
SPEAKER_01 (09:30):
Yeah.
I don't like that, so I don'treally consider it.
SPEAKER_03 (09:35):
My my mom says she'd rather die than uh eat beets.
So uh I don't know if that'syour that's pretty rough.
That's very strong feelings.
Speck.
I don't know what spec is.
SPEAKER_01 (09:46):
It's bacon but with more fat.
SPEAKER_03 (09:49):
Okay.
Oh, and there's a signaturesmoked fish dish called butcher
it.
Le paja mencens.
SPEAKER_01 (10:04):
Oh, Leopis Mensis.
SPEAKER_03 (10:06):
That's what I that's uh I like.
I'm stumbling.
SPEAKER_01 (10:09):
Leopai is actually a city.
And Latvi.
So it's the fish mensis, whichis a type of fish from there.
Okay.
Latvians smoke a lot of fish.
A lot of there's a lot of smokedfish and actually meats also
very popular.
The rye bread is extremelypopular, but it's very different
from the rye bread we eat here.
(10:31):
It is much denser, much I wantto say healthier in a sense, but
it's very dense and it's notsoft and puffy like our rye
bread.
It's nice and dense.
SPEAKER_03 (10:40):
So like less less air, maybe?
SPEAKER_02 (10:43):
Is that good though?
SPEAKER_03 (10:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (10:47):
Throw some butter on it.
It's still delicious.
Yes, it is.
SPEAKER_03 (10:51):
So you just like butter, is what you're saying.
SPEAKER_02 (10:54):
That's the only meaning I eat any bread
products.
Dairy products.
Well, do you have any specialplans this year for your
Independence Day?
SPEAKER_01 (11:03):
Um, this Saturday there's a commemorative
celebration in the Philadelphiaat the Latvia Society.
So we'll be going there andpartaking there.
SPEAKER_02 (11:12):
Awesome.
SPEAKER_01 (11:12):
I'll be able to get some of those little, I'm not
gonna be able to say that.
Peadog.
Peadogs.
SPEAKER_02 (11:18):
They'll get some of those.
SPEAKER_01 (11:20):
I love it.
Yes.
I'm gonna go ahead and make someget my mom to make some pead and
bring them to our next CPM.
SPEAKER_03 (11:30):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (11:31):
Okay, can you make mine without onions though?
Yeah, they're in allowed.
For for vegetarians, they oftenmake it with mushrooms.
Well, no, I want the bacon.
I just don't want the mushrooms.
Okay.
Onions.
Yeah.
Okay.
Bacon without onions.
SPEAKER_02 (11:45):
Okay.
Yes, sweet.
I'm excited.
I'm excited.
SPEAKER_03 (11:48):
Me too.
SPEAKER_02 (11:49):
Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast
and sharing with us about Latinindependence today.
It's really fun, Estrita.
Thanks.
SPEAKER_03 (11:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (12:12):
Already, because you know, we saw all the good things
at the beginning.
SPEAKER_03 (12:15):
We don't want to miss anything.
SPEAKER_00 (12:17):
And you'll and you'll fix all that later,
right?
Yeah, yeah, of course.
Of course.
SPEAKER_03 (12:27):
Yeah, today's Sesame Street Day.
Is it really?
SPEAKER_00 (12:33):
Like, I know.
Like, are Sesame Street peoplelike are we?
How do I put this?
Are there fewer of us?
SPEAKER_03 (12:42):
I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (12:43):
Well, I think they're still on.
SPEAKER_03 (12:45):
Well, I think there's fewer because it's like
HBO now.
So you have to have a status,you have to have a subscription.
I feel like little public.
SPEAKER_00 (12:53):
I feel like people little people have moved on from
Sesame Street.
SPEAKER_03 (12:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:56):
Maybe.
What do I know?
I'm what would they move on to?
I don't know how many littlepeople.
I don't know, like Teletubbiesfor a while.
SPEAKER_02 (13:05):
I think teletubbies is also I think they're on
things like blues clues.
I've heard of that.
Oh my gosh.
I don't know.
I feel like we're hatingourselves, right?
Clearly, everyone listening tothis now is like, what?
SPEAKER_00 (13:20):
What world?
I'm sure there's a thing we knownothing about right now.
I'm sure that little ones arelistening to.
Indeed.
Indeed.
And I'm not sure it's human.
SPEAKER_02 (13:34):
How are you doing today, Raphael?
SPEAKER_00 (13:36):
I'm good.
I'm good.
I was just like, um I got busydoing busy stuff.
Yeah.
And before I knew it, it's timeto chat.
Which I've been looking forwardto all day.
So ironically, I was late to thething.
I was looking forward to doingthings that I'm less looking
forward to.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (13:55):
We had a meeting today.
Appreciate the shout-out.
You had us on a slide andeverything.
Oh, yeah, no.
SPEAKER_00 (14:00):
I mean, I am on a I hope not a one-person crusade.
Yeah.
At the all through LinkedIn,right?
Me, my mother, my 10 followers.
Um But for the Californiaconference, I was like, must
listen.
Nice.
Nice.
(14:20):
We'll see.
Nice.
SPEAKER_02 (14:21):
Yeah, I think uh I think that there have been there
are people from our company whohave started listening to us
recently from, you know, hearingabout at like T Squared and
Minneapolis and some otherthings.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (14:33):
Good to know.
SPEAKER_00 (14:34):
So it was really one of my first my first moments,
like stepping back into CPMworld.
Was you know, because I saw thepodcast.
I was like, oh, I thought thiswas interesting.
And it was.
So awesome.
Because you know, they don'tthey aren't all.
SPEAKER_02 (14:49):
No.
No.
I tried listening to one theother day, or sorry, well, not
name.
And I was like, oh, this lookslike a really cool new podcast.
And and I started listening toit.
And this is I don't think.
So it was about like gifted andneurodiversity, right?
SPEAKER_04 (15:04):
Promising.
SPEAKER_02 (15:04):
And I was listening to it and I was like, they
didn't filter anything.
It sounds they like weren'tusing like regular microphones,
sound like they were in likeecho boxes.
And I was like, I can't, I can'tlisten to this because there's
too much hissing.
And it was like, I was like,whoa, the quality is like enough
for me to even engage,unfortunately, with right.
(15:27):
Yeah.
So I was I was a little sad.
SPEAKER_00 (15:29):
Well, there's a softness to the technology.
Soft on the ears, which I didn'trealize was a thing you did.
It's not just like you whisper.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (15:41):
No, we were helped by many filters and algorithms
and other things to make itsound good.
SPEAKER_03 (15:47):
We can take out the filler words, um, to get a lot
of ums and likes, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (15:53):
I bet.
SPEAKER_02 (15:56):
So what do you want to talk about today?
What's on your mind?
SPEAKER_00 (15:59):
What's on my mind?
I guess, you know, with what soyou know, big headline news, you
know, California adoption.
California lets the whole worldthat know that we're awesome,
which we already know, uh alongwith many other curricula to all
of us for committing to highquality materials in the
(16:19):
classroom.
So that's that's exciting.
That's on my mind.
It is big news.
Yeah.
And and I'm also thinking aboutthe teachers that are going to
be shifting through all thesedifferent options and
possibilities.
And I've attended a couple ofconferences and and I uh was
particularly excited at the NCTMconference to see this little
(16:43):
booklet that guided theshopping, if you will.
Right.
It was it was your what's youruh HQ IQ, high-quality IQ.
And it was framed very nicelywith questions I think uh we
certainly think about all thetime at CTM.
Interesting around, you know,what students need are, what
(17:04):
teachers need in the classroom,current reality.
It was it was pretty impressive,and I got to chat uh with two of
the creators of this of thispamphlet here at CTM.
And it turns out this might be anew thing.
Like they're trying to do thisfor all teacher conferences
everywhere.
Maybe.
I don't know.
I'm I may be exaggerating, butgiving people a framework for
(17:28):
engaging around choices.
That's kind of cool.
Like the candy's cool, thegiveaways are cool.
SPEAKER_04 (17:34):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:34):
But a framework for asking questions that would be
even more amazing.
SPEAKER_03 (17:39):
We were just talking to uh someone about um so
there's a CMC publication thatwent out about high-quality
instructional material.
And I just thought it was soneat to see that not not only
for students, but for teachersto engage and that states and
districts and schools andteachers are having these
(18:01):
discussions and really thinkingabout it.
Not that we haven't before, butjust I like that it's in the
forefront at the moment.
SPEAKER_00 (18:10):
Well, and it raises the teacher voice in the
conversation, right?
I like to think it's always beenthere, but you know, there are
decision makers, there areresource managers, aka people
with money, right?
And and the teachers in theclassroom have a lot to say uh
around what's working.
You know, that whole differencebetween research-based and
(18:31):
evidence-based curriculum.
That's that's a thing.
Important.
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_04 (18:38):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02 (18:39):
Yeah.
Yeah, I think uh it'sinteresting.
You're talking about the, youknow, the little the pamphlet
and then like to guide people inasking these questions.
Just thinking about like,because then there's always
feeling prepared to answer thesequestions, right?
Like, where, where is that?
There's a part of it that itfeels like it's shifting to
(19:00):
great, here's this ground swellsort of like teachers, you know,
they're in the authority.
And then there's, but thenthere's the also the counter,
the counter, like, oh great,well, we're just gonna create
marketing materials to answerthose questions again, right?
Like, like it's it's a it's aback and forth that happens.
SPEAKER_00 (19:17):
No, absolutely.
And I think um it's funnybecause I resisted running with
a bunch of fists full ofpamphlets to our NCTM booth.
And I thought, well, you know,if we're doing our due
diligence, right, we should haveanswers to questions of this
sort.
Like authentic.
SPEAKER_04 (19:38):
Yeah, right.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (19:40):
Right.
Rather than, oh, let's study thepamphlet and make sure we have
good answers.
Right.
Um, I think uh that's aninteresting concept.
Like how do you use that in waysthat empower rather than I guess
disempower or or turn theinteraction into something
(20:00):
that's less authentic, lessreal.
SPEAKER_02 (20:02):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and I and it's aninteresting like back and forth
because I mean, clearly, ifthese are the questions that are
being asked, like I want to havesome kind of an idea of like, oh
yeah, I want to have thoughtabout it.
Have, you know, they don't wantto just blah, blah, bumble in
over everything.
And if I just come up like, ohyes, blah, blah, blah, blah,
with my like pat answer, that'snot really meeting the need of
(20:23):
the person asking the questioneither.
For sure.
Which then makes me think aboutlike how it's designing our own
curriculum, right?
We give teachers pocketquestions and various things,
and we want them to make themtheir own.
We don't want them to just walkaround this is what it says to
do in this very mechanical way.
But sometimes the mechanicalpiece is needed to get to the
(20:45):
routine execution.
SPEAKER_00 (20:47):
Right.
Right.
Yeah, it's the differencebetween a scripted curriculum.
What way back thousands of yearsago, I remember encountering
scripted approaches to teaching.
And it, you know, it felt sillythen.
I hope it still feels silly.
Um but I think that one of thestrengths of CPM is there's
(21:09):
enough scaffold and enoughprevious experience, you know,
the whole buy teachers forteachers, like people have come
before you as a teacher andtried these things out.
So here's like a a buffet ofpossibilities, sure.
All within a framework of astrong curriculum.
Uh because when I I went lookingfor CPM again thousands of years
(21:32):
ago, I thought, okay, surelysomeone has figured this out or
at least thought about it.
I don't I don't want to startfrom scratch.
I had a concept of transformingthe classroom into something
much more student-centered.
And then I was like, oh, I thinkthis is it.
Right.
And then not having to go italone was sort of the key.
Right.
(21:52):
If I had retreated back into myclassroom with a my box of
curriculum materials, I justwouldn't have been as powerful a
teacher.
Right.
Yeah.
unknown (22:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:06):
What else is what else is going on in your brain?
SPEAKER_03 (22:08):
Yeah.
I was I was even going to askwhat like uh what did what stood
out to you at those conferences,Nctm, SCSM?
SPEAKER_00 (22:16):
Yeah, no, that's a that's a great question.
So I would say the conferencesI've attended, but this one in
particular, because this this islike the conference, right?
That's right.
This is the conference.
And it was the conference forme.
This is where I discovered NCTMmany, many years ago.
Sure, sure.
Uh I where I discovered CPN atan NCTM conference.
(22:38):
But I I really continue to seelike two ways of engaging
teachers, kind of very muchconnected to what we've been
talking about.
One way is to give themband-aids, shortcut, perhaps
with the best intention.
But I think how it lands is, youknow, you all are too busy,
(23:02):
apparently's maybe not reallyfully capable of engaging with
this sort of thing.
And I think there's a wholeother set of folks who are
looking at teachers as the theexpert professionals that they
are.
They're able to make greatdecisions around curriculum.
They know how to incorporate thelatest technology.
(23:24):
Yes, even AI.
So it's these two differentapproaches, you know, and
whatever the intent, I think howhow it lands on the teacher is
oh, you see me as a respectedprofessional, a collaborator
with you, CPN.
Uh or it could land as, oh, I'mI'm gonna take this shortcut,
(23:45):
but I don't I don't feel like Iknow why I'm doing it.
Or if it's even going toultimately be a shortcut.
SPEAKER_03 (23:52):
And and immediately when you said that, it just
relates so much to a classroom.
Am I gonna give you a shortcutstudent to like why aren't you
teaching me?
Give me the algorithm, that sortof thing, or am I gonna help you
empower yourself to do thosethings?
SPEAKER_02 (24:12):
So well, and I is as you were saying that I was
thinking about how it'sinteresting, like I think there
is a mix as well of at timesthere are things that are just
that are tedious and read andrepetitive, and making those
efficient or easier so that youcan spend your time on the
(24:32):
things that are harder and takethe thinking and brain is
helpful.
But determining what those areis the trick is a tricky part,
right?
Like if I decide that grading mytests is the redundant and
tedious thing, and I so I'mgonna use multiple choice tests
and put them on scantrons, thatmay not be the best
instructional decision, but itwould free up a lot of my time
(24:53):
for doing something else, right?
So there's there's an it's it'slike where in that decision we
decide what's the thing we don'twant to have to spend time
doing, right?
SPEAKER_00 (25:05):
Absolutely.
And and better to do that withother teachers, right?
Like making that decision alone,I think, is is trickier.
You might be tempted or youmight have your context and are
thinking about otherpossibilities, right?
Uh your example's great, right?
Oh, who wouldn't want to dothat?
Well, when we followed thatroad, the Scantron road, there
(25:30):
were unintended consequencesthat I think we've learned from,
right?
Like that may have saved ustime, sure.
But it also had an impact thatwas not great for students.
So better to have that dialoguewith other teachers.
Yeah.
And today's version, I meanassessment is, you know, I mean
what's on my mind forever.
(25:51):
Assessment is on my mindforever.
And what are we gonna do in thisnew point of inflection, right?
Around assessment.
Are we going to make it moreefficient with the new
technological tools like AI?
And are we considering allpossible impact of that?
(26:12):
Or are there other I would arguemaybe there are other like not
tedious tasks that could bewin-win, right?
Like rather than looking atevery tedious task must be
technologized and all thevaluable tasks, whatever that
means, need to remainhuman-oriented.
(26:32):
Again, whatever that means, wemight be missing like the gray.
SPEAKER_04 (26:39):
Wow.
SPEAKER_03 (26:41):
Yeah, it's uh like I'm trying to think w what's
coming to mind right now is I'llhear somebody may want to have a
system to grade for me.
Somebody else might say, No, Iwant to grade that because I
want to see what my students aredoing.
Somebody else might say, I wantto have a lesson plan planned
for me.
Somebody else might say, Hey, Iwant to plan that lesson because
(27:05):
so like finding that that place,but well, you said before about
not being alone and having anetwork and a connection, I
think is key.
SPEAKER_00 (27:19):
And let's not forget, we're not alone in the
classroom.
Right.
They're 15, 20, god forbid, 35,40, 40 uh humans in there.
And that you know, I think Ithink this technology moment is
really going to challenge us totruly turn over some things to
(27:41):
students.
And maybe some cool things, likethings that we really love as
teachers.
Like, oh, I love doing that.
I want to keep doing that.
But but could students do that?
Could could students do thatwith you?
Sure.
Could students do that insteadof you?
I mean, that's gonna be, Ithink, the next sort of frontier
for what's possible.
SPEAKER_02 (28:05):
As you're saying that, I think, I then I think
about like how I'm trying tofigure out how to even describe
this.
So every year that I'm in theclass, with us in the classroom,
right?
I I learned from that and I andI was like, okay, now I'm gonna
do this thing better, right?
I'm gonna do this thing better,and I'm gonna do this next thing
better.
And I did do many of thosethings better.
(28:27):
And I was also continually,somehow my brain did not
understand that the studentscoming in were still sixth
graders, who were really onlyfifth graders when they started
the year, right?
Like at the end of fifth grade.
And so there was this weird sortof like, I learned from that
experience, but then I hadalways had to remember and go
back that the students have notlearned from that experience.
(28:47):
Wow.
Yeah.
Right.
Like back to the beginning.
So there was how can I take whatI know and reset it, but do it
better at the same time.
I don't know why when you weresaying that, it just made me
think about like, you know, whenwe've been in the, we've been
doing education for years andyears and years and years.
And our students, you know, theyare changing, like the world is
(29:09):
changing and it impacts theirbrains and different things.
But they're still five, eight,fourteen, whatever, you know,
they're still young brains.
I haven't done this yet.
SPEAKER_00 (29:20):
Oh my gosh, that is so so helpful.
And, you know, if I had nevergotten to the place of uh
working uh with early childhoodeducators, I don't think I'd
have so much excitement aroundthis concept.
Because I would see, you know,early childhood educators
(29:41):
engaging students who arelearning to read, yeah, who are
learning their fundamentalnumeracy, right?
And I think the key is to yes,learn as you've described, but
come in as a fellow discovererof wonder, right?
And those.
Early childhood teachers havemuch to teach us about.
(30:04):
Right?
Like we've got to bring in thatthat wonder.
And I would I would say it hasto somehow be built up
authentically.
Like we we have to share in thatmoment of like, oh, I never
thought of it that way, eventhough you have.
You have to find a way to, youknow, engage with that moment of
wonder and the ha, especially,you know, the program like CPM
(30:26):
will where our whole thing islet's solve the world's
problems, let's solve thisproblem together.
And that moment of havingachieved that together, right,
is huge.
SPEAKER_03 (30:38):
Wow.
And uh I so many things in mymind, but like so the first
thing is I think about when I atone point I went to a used
bookstore and I tried to findthe oldest book, and I found a
book by John Dewey.
And I was like, this is amazing.
He's talking aboutcollaboration, he's talking
(30:59):
about make things relevant, he'stalking about all those things,
and we're still talking aboutthose things.
And then the other thing isbeing I I come from a high
school environment in myteaching career.
Well, those kids aren't up tograde level, but they they
really are, they're at theirlevel that they've experienced
to that point.
Like there's and so to yourpoint of let's engage in a way
(31:24):
that we can all discovertogether, I think is huge.
SPEAKER_04 (31:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:28):
That that grade level concept is a great one,
right?
Like, what does that mean?
Right.
Yeah, yeah.
Like what what we're reallysaying is you're not meeting my
expectations.
SPEAKER_03 (31:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:40):
Right now.
And and I think very often we weend up conveying that and in a
way that's unhelpful, right?
Oh, the teacher's disappointedin me, in us.
We're not where we're supposedto be.
Oh my gosh, I'm not good atmath.
unknown (31:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:57):
Yeah.
And and I don't know.
During during the COVID years,you know, with like what is it
learning lost?
Is everybody just holding still?
Like, like what happened, right?
And how we frame it coming out,I think makes a big difference.
I think some places were like,well, we now have to go into
years of remediation foreveryone.
(32:17):
Oh yay.
That's exciting, right?
Like versus, hey, we are wherewe are at.
You know, we're in thistogether.
Like, like there's just two waysto frame that.
And and I'm wondering howclassrooms who are taking the
two different approaches aremoving forward, how schools are,
how districts are.
Um Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (32:38):
I I I taught in a school that we we didn't really
have grade levels.
We had all the middle schoolerstogether.
And I mean, the kids always kindof knew what grade level they
were.
They had to be assigned a gradelevel for external competitions
and things like that.
Like I had to say, okay, you'recompeting as a seventh grade or
whatever in the science fair.
And it was interesting, ofcourse, every adult that they
(33:01):
ever encounter never asked themhow old they are.
They ask them what grade they'rein.
Right.
And and some of my kids would belike, Oh, I'm a middle schooler,
you know, or whatever, or they,you know, but it was this it was
this lovely space where we hadall the kids who were of a sixth
through eighth grade age in thesame classroom.
And so they could f you know,flex within that really pretty
(33:23):
dramatic developmental space forwherever they were.
Some of them their brainssuddenly like and and in a year
suddenly caught up with theirpeers in in interesting ways.
And it was it was really quitelovely and and challenging,
right?
That having to differentiatethat whole breadth.
(33:45):
But then I think about any givenmiddle school classroom that's
assigned as a X grade classroomhas at least that much diversity
in where the kids are in theirthinking and and brain
development.
And yeah, it was it was alwaysreally interesting.
And I always told them, I said,I I don't think of you as an e
whatever, a you know, seventhgrader.
(34:06):
I think of you as Liam.
And I and I give you work basedon what I know and I've seen
Liam can do.
And I don't sometimes I go toofar and sometimes I go too easy,
and that's on me.
But like you're helping me alsogive you that stuff that's at
your learning space.
But I also only had 25 students.
(34:26):
That helps a lot.
I couldn't have done that with108.
SPEAKER_00 (34:30):
Right.
No, I mean you know, I don't Idon't know if you've heard the
joke that in education we reallywent sideways the day we
accepted the second student.
Like everything else at all was,you know, on on us.
But but you know, what you'redescribing is very much like
(34:51):
like real life stuff, right?
Like the CPM classroom and itsstructure in my mind, one of the
powerful elements is that thiswhole prepare for whatever, this
is preparation for life andengaging with other humans,
right?
You do it in groups, you do itin pairs, you do it
asynchronously, synchronouslynow.
And you don't do it in batches,right?
(35:14):
Like we treat kids like, oh,this is the seventh grade batch.
Yeah, this is the eighth gradebatch.
And in life, that just doesn'thappen, right?
Like, oh, you're the you're thezero to five professional batch.
And you know, there's the wholeintergenerational conversation
with this is where you learnedabout equations of lines and you
(35:35):
know them, yes.
Sorry, no promotion because yourbatch number is so many things.
SPEAKER_02 (35:45):
Oh well, as usual, we filled up all our time.
Did we really?
Almost nothing.
Well, we talked about very mucha lot of things.
I'm kidding.
I'm kidding.
SPEAKER_00 (35:55):
I had a lot of wondrous moments.
No, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_02 (35:58):
We had we talked about very my amazing things.
It was more like we didn't havea topic of conversation, was
more like prepared to be alittle bit more than a little
bit.
SPEAKER_00 (36:06):
I'm dying to see what you call call this.
Oh, yeah, that's always a trickypart.
SPEAKER_02 (36:12):
Naming the podcast.
SPEAKER_00 (36:13):
I have beaten uh who is this guy?
What does he want?
Like, I feel like I've got tomove on.
I need it to be a good one.
SPEAKER_02 (36:20):
I'm not gonna be able to stop that one.
SPEAKER_03 (36:22):
Start strong.
Start strong.
SPEAKER_02 (36:24):
Awesome.
So that is all we have time foron this episode of the More Math
for More People podcast.
If you are interested inconnecting with us on social
media, find our links in thepodcast description.
And the music for the podcastwas created by Julius H.
(36:46):
It can be found on pixabay.com.
So thank you very much, Julius.
Join us in two weeks for thenext episode of More Math for
More People.
What day will that be, Joel?
SPEAKER_03 (36:58):
It'll be December 2nd.
Business of Popping Corn Day.
And we'll talk about thebusiness of popping corn.
So here at my house, we have avariety of popping corn
opportunities, different corns,stovetop, microwave, things like
that.
(37:18):
I'd love to share my story ofone of my first jobs when I
worked at the movie theater andwe went to popcorn.
And I could tell stories of thebutter, stories of how that
popcorn ended up in my houseoftentimes because there is so
much.
Looking forward to December 2nd,you know, it's a very good idea.
You are listening to the More Math for More People
podcast, an outreach CPMeducational program.
Boom.
SPEAKER_02 (00:31):
Hey Joel.
SPEAKER_03 (00:32):
Hey.
SPEAKER_02 (00:33):
It's November 18th.
SPEAKER_03 (00:35):
Sure is.
SPEAKER_02 (00:36):
And we have a special guest.
I was going to say special gueststar.
We have a special guest on todayfor our day of because it is
Latvian Independence Day.
SPEAKER_03 (00:47):
Correct.
SPEAKER_02 (00:48):
And we happen to know someone who is Latvian.
SPEAKER_03 (00:51):
I know.
SPEAKER_02 (00:52):
Isn't that cool?
SPEAKER_03 (00:53):
That's way cool.
SPEAKER_02 (00:54):
I know.
So welcome to the podcast,Estrida.
Welcome.
So this is Ostrita Lizens.
She's gonna tell us how to sayher name in Latvian in a moment,
who is one of our coworkers hereat CPM.
Yeah.
So Estrida, we were asking aboutyour name, and you were saying
that that's not how you say itin Latvian.
So now we need to hear how yousay it in Latvian.
SPEAKER_01 (01:15):
In Latvian, my name is Estodido Lizengs.
SPEAKER_04 (01:19):
Ooh.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:21):
That's kind of cool.
SPEAKER_03 (01:22):
That is cool.
I like it.
SPEAKER_02 (01:25):
Why is it one of those, was it was it like
officially changed, or you justmake it easier for all of us to
say it?
Kind of a thing.
Sorry.
SPEAKER_01 (01:33):
We make it easier for everyone.
Because there are sounds thatyour tongues just aren't used to
making.
And it's absolutely yeah.
It would be difficult.
SPEAKER_03 (01:43):
So like on uh uh like a driver's license?
Is it s is it spelled for us orspelled for Latvia?
SPEAKER_01 (01:52):
Oh for the driver's license here, it's spelled in
English.
unknown (01:56):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (01:56):
Is that spelled different in Latvian then?
It the only difference is islike the I has a long I, so we
put like a line over it toindicate it's a long I, and the
N is a soft N, so there's like asymbol to show that it's a soft
N, and the S the SH has asymbol.
But otherwise all the lettersare the same.
SPEAKER_02 (02:15):
That's cool.
We were learning so much aboutLatvia already.
SPEAKER_03 (02:20):
I know.
I one of my favorite storiesabout working with you is you
and your husband were uh drivingus around Montana, I believe,
and uh used the GPS in Latvianso that we could get around.
SPEAKER_02 (02:38):
I have a memory of that too.
When we were in I think it waswhen we were in Boise.
And we were driving aroundbecause I remember we were like,
we at one point we were like,aha, we know what the word for
right is.
We couldn't say it very well.
I don't even get and I don'tremember it now.
It was years ago.
SPEAKER_03 (02:56):
So is this a holiday that you celebrate?
SPEAKER_01 (02:59):
Well, the community, Latvian communities celebrate
them.
Yes.
Um, unfortunately, in Latvia itis always celebrated.
Not not unfortunate, in Latviait is always celebrated on the
18th.
Uh nobody has to work, and it'scelebrated on the 18th, sort of
like July 4th is celebratedhere.
SPEAKER_04 (03:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:17):
But for the Latvian communities here, we don't get
off on the 18th.
So we usually celebrate uh aweekend before, like a Saturday
or Sunday before or after,depending upon our unity and the
dates.
SPEAKER_04 (03:28):
Awesome.
SPEAKER_01 (03:29):
Nice.
So so when did Latvianindependence happen?
1918.
unknown (03:35):
Oh.
SPEAKER_01 (03:36):
It was proclaimed as a Republic of Latvia and had
regained its freedom from theGerman occupation.
And it then in 1940, the SovietUnion occupied occupied it in
World War II.
But then it once uh the IronCurtain fell in 1990, then it
was restored back to theRepublic of Latvia.
(03:57):
Wow, so like 50 years underRussian control.
Yeah, basically.
SPEAKER_02 (04:03):
Wow.
That's exciting.
So what uh the were you okay?
So I don't even know the answerto this question.
Were you born in Latvia?
SPEAKER_01 (04:10):
No.
SPEAKER_02 (04:11):
I'm first generation here in America.
SPEAKER_04 (04:13):
Awesome.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (04:14):
And so you grew up speaking Latvian.
And I mean, I know you do a lotof Latvian culture things.
Can you tell us about some ofthem?
SPEAKER_01 (04:21):
Yes, I spoke up speaking Latvian at home.
Both my parents were born inLatvia.
My husband's parents also wereborn in Latvia.
So my husband and I speakLatvian, and all three of our
children speak Latvian.
My growing up, I went to Latvianschool on Saturdays.
It was usually most of theLatvian schools are associated
(04:43):
with a Latvian church in a cityin some area.
In most of the larger cities,there's a Latvian church, and
then there's a Latvian school.
And my children also went toLatvian school growing up.
So we went to school six days aweek, not five days a week.
And summers were spent atLatvian camps.
Um, there's I'm on the EastCoast.
Um I live outside ofPhiladelphia.
(05:04):
There's a Latvian camp propertyin the Catskills that I went to
as a child and then was campdirector for a while, and then
my children went there.
And one of my biggest umpassions and work with the
Latvian society is folk dancing.
And I've been running theLatvian folk dance group here in
(05:26):
Philadelphia for 35 years.
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (05:31):
What is Latvian folk folk dancing like?
SPEAKER_01 (05:34):
Can you describe it?
It's similar if you know IrishCayley dancing.
It's similar to Irish Cayleydancing, in which you have
either four couples or eightcouples or six couples.
And it's the music is usually apolka rhythm.
And so we it's more like atraditional Kaylee, like Irish
(05:55):
Cayley, in that not similar, butsimilar but different.
SPEAKER_03 (05:58):
Is it is that year-round or is that seasonal?
SPEAKER_01 (06:01):
I give my dancers a break during the summer only
with a break.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (06:08):
And do you go to like competitions or like fairs,
or like where do you do thedancing?
SPEAKER_01 (06:12):
We don't compete.
We are song festivals, song anddance festivals, Latvian song
and dance festivals.
And um, we participate in thosetogether with other Latvian
groups, and then we do often ata November 18th.
So then a folk dance group mightbe performing for their
community.
Or we do like I we were just myfolk dance group just
(06:36):
participated in a World HeritageFair that had dancers from all
different countries performing.
Nice.
Nice.
SPEAKER_02 (06:45):
And I mean, I I'm pretty sure I've known I know
you've gone to Latvia severaltimes since I've known you.
Do you go back?
Do you go to Latvia like everyyear or do you go very often?
SPEAKER_01 (06:55):
Before we had children, my husband and I went
there more often.
SPEAKER_04 (06:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:00):
Once we had children, it got a little
expensive to go there.
We try to go every two, threeyears at least.
Awesome.
So so if we were gonna go toLatvia, where should we go?
Where would you recommend us?
Oh the capital city, Riga, isabsolutely beautiful.
Um, the capital city is morethan 800 years old.
The old part of the city is justamazing and beautiful, and there
(07:23):
is so much to do and see in thecity itself.
SPEAKER_02 (07:29):
Is is Latvia mostly like hilly and mountains, or is
it like flat and or is it reallyjust a mix?
It's really not hilly at all.
SPEAKER_01 (07:37):
Oh it's relatively flat.
Well, it's relatively flat.
A lot once you're outside of thecity country, a lot of farm.
So interesting.
SPEAKER_03 (07:48):
So you you uh said earlier that you went to school
six days a week.
What what's the philosophybehind that?
SPEAKER_01 (07:56):
Well, I mean, school was on Saturdays.
SPEAKER_03 (07:59):
Oh.
An extra day.
I got it.
I just thought I I I thought itwas six days versus five, and I
was wondering.
SPEAKER_01 (08:09):
Extra day, extra day of the week that we had to go to
school.
SPEAKER_03 (08:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:13):
Well, all my friends were at home watching cartoons
on TV early in the morning.
SPEAKER_03 (08:17):
No, no.
SPEAKER_01 (08:18):
My mom was butting me in the car and driving me to
Latvian school.
SPEAKER_03 (08:22):
Good.
I like your mom.
I'm a proponent of more school.
So that's good.
So this says one of the ways tocelebrate Latvia Independence
Day is to eat like a local.
So what would we need to do toeat like a local?
SPEAKER_01 (08:40):
Well, they have some.
There's a it's actually a yeastdough filled with bacon and
onions called the pead's.
And they're very tedious tomake.
So whenever you go somewhere,everybody sort of grabs onto
them and eats them up quickly.
Um so we have the pead, we ifyou're looking for a typical
(09:02):
meal, we are more of a meat andpotatoes because we are mostly
farmlands.
So a lot of meat potatoes withgravies would be like a typical,
typical meal type of thing.
But there are some the pea dogare the big ones.
SPEAKER_03 (09:17):
Okay.
I I'm gonna share with you whatmy sources say.
Yeah.
The sources are suspectsometimes, let's be clear.
They say rye bread.
SPEAKER_01 (09:27):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (09:28):
Beet root soup.
SPEAKER_01 (09:30):
Yeah.
I don't like that, so I don'treally consider it.
SPEAKER_03 (09:35):
My my mom says she'd rather die than uh eat beets.
So uh I don't know if that'syour that's pretty rough.
That's very strong feelings.
Speck.
I don't know what spec is.
SPEAKER_01 (09:46):
It's bacon but with more fat.
SPEAKER_03 (09:49):
Okay.
Oh, and there's a signaturesmoked fish dish called butcher
it.
Le paja mencens.
SPEAKER_01 (10:04):
Oh, Leopis Mensis.
SPEAKER_03 (10:06):
That's what I that's uh I like.
I'm stumbling.
SPEAKER_01 (10:09):
Leopai is actually a city.
And Latvi.
So it's the fish mensis, whichis a type of fish from there.
Okay.
Latvians smoke a lot of fish.
A lot of there's a lot of smokedfish and actually meats also
very popular.
The rye bread is extremelypopular, but it's very different
from the rye bread we eat here.
(10:31):
It is much denser, much I wantto say healthier in a sense, but
it's very dense and it's notsoft and puffy like our rye
bread.
It's nice and dense.
SPEAKER_03 (10:40):
So like less less air, maybe?
SPEAKER_02 (10:43):
Is that good though?
SPEAKER_03 (10:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (10:47):
Throw some butter on it.
It's still delicious.
Yes, it is.
SPEAKER_03 (10:51):
So you just like butter, is what you're saying.
SPEAKER_02 (10:54):
That's the only meaning I eat any bread
products.
Dairy products.
Well, do you have any specialplans this year for your
Independence Day?
SPEAKER_01 (11:03):
Um, this Saturday there's a commemorative
celebration in the Philadelphiaat the Latvia Society.
So we'll be going there andpartaking there.
SPEAKER_02 (11:12):
Awesome.
SPEAKER_01 (11:12):
I'll be able to get some of those little, I'm not
gonna be able to say that.
Peadog.
Peadogs.
SPEAKER_02 (11:18):
They'll get some of those.
SPEAKER_01 (11:20):
I love it.
Yes.
I'm gonna go ahead and make someget my mom to make some pead and
bring them to our next CPM.
SPEAKER_03 (11:30):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (11:31):
Okay, can you make mine without onions though?
Yeah, they're in allowed.
For for vegetarians, they oftenmake it with mushrooms.
Well, no, I want the bacon.
I just don't want the mushrooms.
Okay.
Onions.
Yeah.
Okay.
Bacon without onions.
SPEAKER_02 (11:45):
Okay.
Yes, sweet.
I'm excited.
I'm excited.
SPEAKER_03 (11:48):
Me too.
SPEAKER_02 (11:49):
Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast
and sharing with us about Latinindependence today.
It's really fun, Estrita.
Thanks.
SPEAKER_03 (11:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (12:12):
Already, because you know, we saw all the good things
at the beginning.
SPEAKER_03 (12:15):
We don't want to miss anything.
SPEAKER_00 (12:17):
And you'll and you'll fix all that later,
right?
Yeah, yeah, of course.
Of course.
SPEAKER_03 (12:27):
Yeah, today's Sesame Street Day.
Is it really?
SPEAKER_00 (12:33):
Like, I know.
Like, are Sesame Street peoplelike are we?
How do I put this?
Are there fewer of us?
SPEAKER_03 (12:42):
I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (12:43):
Well, I think they're still on.
SPEAKER_03 (12:45):
Well, I think there's fewer because it's like
HBO now.
So you have to have a status,you have to have a subscription.
I feel like little public.
SPEAKER_00 (12:53):
I feel like people little people have moved on from
Sesame Street.
SPEAKER_03 (12:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:56):
Maybe.
What do I know?
I'm what would they move on to?
I don't know how many littlepeople.
I don't know, like Teletubbiesfor a while.
SPEAKER_02 (13:05):
I think teletubbies is also I think they're on
things like blues clues.
I've heard of that.
Oh my gosh.
I don't know.
I feel like we're hatingourselves, right?
Clearly, everyone listening tothis now is like, what?
SPEAKER_00 (13:20):
What world?
I'm sure there's a thing we knownothing about right now.
I'm sure that little ones arelistening to.
Indeed.
Indeed.
And I'm not sure it's human.
SPEAKER_02 (13:34):
How are you doing today, Raphael?
SPEAKER_00 (13:36):
I'm good.
I'm good.
I was just like, um I got busydoing busy stuff.
Yeah.
And before I knew it, it's timeto chat.
Which I've been looking forwardto all day.
So ironically, I was late to thething.
I was looking forward to doingthings that I'm less looking
forward to.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (13:55):
We had a meeting today.
Appreciate the shout-out.
You had us on a slide andeverything.
Oh, yeah, no.
SPEAKER_00 (14:00):
I mean, I am on a I hope not a one-person crusade.
Yeah.
At the all through LinkedIn,right?
Me, my mother, my 10 followers.
Um But for the Californiaconference, I was like, must
listen.
Nice.
Nice.
(14:20):
We'll see.
Nice.
SPEAKER_02 (14:21):
Yeah, I think uh I think that there have been there
are people from our company whohave started listening to us
recently from, you know, hearingabout at like T Squared and
Minneapolis and some otherthings.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (14:33):
Good to know.
SPEAKER_00 (14:34):
So it was really one of my first my first moments,
like stepping back into CPMworld.
Was you know, because I saw thepodcast.
I was like, oh, I thought thiswas interesting.
And it was.
So awesome.
Because you know, they don'tthey aren't all.
SPEAKER_02 (14:49):
No.
No.
I tried listening to one theother day, or sorry, well, not
name.
And I was like, oh, this lookslike a really cool new podcast.
And and I started listening toit.
And this is I don't think.
So it was about like gifted andneurodiversity, right?
SPEAKER_04 (15:04):
Promising.
SPEAKER_02 (15:04):
And I was listening to it and I was like, they
didn't filter anything.
It sounds they like weren'tusing like regular microphones,
sound like they were in likeecho boxes.
And I was like, I can't, I can'tlisten to this because there's
too much hissing.
And it was like, I was like,whoa, the quality is like enough
for me to even engage,unfortunately, with right.
(15:27):
Yeah.
So I was I was a little sad.
SPEAKER_00 (15:29):
Well, there's a softness to the technology.
Soft on the ears, which I didn'trealize was a thing you did.
It's not just like you whisper.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (15:41):
No, we were helped by many filters and algorithms
and other things to make itsound good.
SPEAKER_03 (15:47):
We can take out the filler words, um, to get a lot
of ums and likes, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (15:53):
I bet.
SPEAKER_02 (15:56):
So what do you want to talk about today?
What's on your mind?
SPEAKER_00 (15:59):
What's on my mind?
I guess, you know, with what soyou know, big headline news, you
know, California adoption.
California lets the whole worldthat know that we're awesome,
which we already know, uh alongwith many other curricula to all
of us for committing to highquality materials in the
(16:19):
classroom.
So that's that's exciting.
That's on my mind.
It is big news.
Yeah.
And and I'm also thinking aboutthe teachers that are going to
be shifting through all thesedifferent options and
possibilities.
And I've attended a couple ofconferences and and I uh was
particularly excited at the NCTMconference to see this little
(16:43):
booklet that guided theshopping, if you will.
Right.
It was it was your what's youruh HQ IQ, high-quality IQ.
And it was framed very nicelywith questions I think uh we
certainly think about all thetime at CTM.
Interesting around, you know,what students need are, what
(17:04):
teachers need in the classroom,current reality.
It was it was pretty impressive,and I got to chat uh with two of
the creators of this of thispamphlet here at CTM.
And it turns out this might be anew thing.
Like they're trying to do thisfor all teacher conferences
everywhere.
Maybe.
I don't know.
I'm I may be exaggerating, butgiving people a framework for
(17:28):
engaging around choices.
That's kind of cool.
Like the candy's cool, thegiveaways are cool.
SPEAKER_04 (17:34):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:34):
But a framework for asking questions that would be
even more amazing.
SPEAKER_03 (17:39):
We were just talking to uh someone about um so
there's a CMC publication thatwent out about high-quality
instructional material.
And I just thought it was soneat to see that not not only
for students, but for teachersto engage and that states and
districts and schools andteachers are having these
(18:01):
discussions and really thinkingabout it.
Not that we haven't before, butjust I like that it's in the
forefront at the moment.
SPEAKER_00 (18:10):
Well, and it raises the teacher voice in the
conversation, right?
I like to think it's always beenthere, but you know, there are
decision makers, there areresource managers, aka people
with money, right?
And and the teachers in theclassroom have a lot to say uh
around what's working.
You know, that whole differencebetween research-based and
(18:31):
evidence-based curriculum.
That's that's a thing.
Important.
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_04 (18:38):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02 (18:39):
Yeah.
Yeah, I think uh it'sinteresting.
You're talking about the, youknow, the little the pamphlet
and then like to guide people inasking these questions.
Just thinking about like,because then there's always
feeling prepared to answer thesequestions, right?
Like, where, where is that?
There's a part of it that itfeels like it's shifting to
(19:00):
great, here's this ground swellsort of like teachers, you know,
they're in the authority.
And then there's, but thenthere's the also the counter,
the counter, like, oh great,well, we're just gonna create
marketing materials to answerthose questions again, right?
Like, like it's it's a it's aback and forth that happens.
SPEAKER_00 (19:17):
No, absolutely.
And I think um it's funnybecause I resisted running with
a bunch of fists full ofpamphlets to our NCTM booth.
And I thought, well, you know,if we're doing our due
diligence, right, we should haveanswers to questions of this
sort.
Like authentic.
SPEAKER_04 (19:38):
Yeah, right.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (19:40):
Right.
Rather than, oh, let's study thepamphlet and make sure we have
good answers.
Right.
Um, I think uh that's aninteresting concept.
Like how do you use that in waysthat empower rather than I guess
disempower or or turn theinteraction into something
(20:00):
that's less authentic, lessreal.
SPEAKER_02 (20:02):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and I and it's aninteresting like back and forth
because I mean, clearly, ifthese are the questions that are
being asked, like I want to havesome kind of an idea of like, oh
yeah, I want to have thoughtabout it.
Have, you know, they don't wantto just blah, blah, bumble in
over everything.
And if I just come up like, ohyes, blah, blah, blah, blah,
with my like pat answer, that'snot really meeting the need of
(20:23):
the person asking the questioneither.
For sure.
Which then makes me think aboutlike how it's designing our own
curriculum, right?
We give teachers pocketquestions and various things,
and we want them to make themtheir own.
We don't want them to just walkaround this is what it says to
do in this very mechanical way.
But sometimes the mechanicalpiece is needed to get to the
(20:45):
routine execution.
SPEAKER_00 (20:47):
Right.
Right.
Yeah, it's the differencebetween a scripted curriculum.
What way back thousands of yearsago, I remember encountering
scripted approaches to teaching.
And it, you know, it felt sillythen.
I hope it still feels silly.
Um but I think that one of thestrengths of CPM is there's
(21:09):
enough scaffold and enoughprevious experience, you know,
the whole buy teachers forteachers, like people have come
before you as a teacher andtried these things out.
So here's like a a buffet ofpossibilities, sure.
All within a framework of astrong curriculum.
Uh because when I I went lookingfor CPM again thousands of years
(21:32):
ago, I thought, okay, surelysomeone has figured this out or
at least thought about it.
I don't I don't want to startfrom scratch.
I had a concept of transformingthe classroom into something
much more student-centered.
And then I was like, oh, I thinkthis is it.
Right.
And then not having to go italone was sort of the key.
Right.
(21:52):
If I had retreated back into myclassroom with a my box of
curriculum materials, I justwouldn't have been as powerful a
teacher.
Right.
Yeah.
unknown (22:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:06):
What else is what else is going on in your brain?
SPEAKER_03 (22:08):
Yeah.
I was I was even going to askwhat like uh what did what stood
out to you at those conferences,Nctm, SCSM?
SPEAKER_00 (22:16):
Yeah, no, that's a that's a great question.
So I would say the conferencesI've attended, but this one in
particular, because this this islike the conference, right?
That's right.
This is the conference.
And it was the conference forme.
This is where I discovered NCTMmany, many years ago.
Sure, sure.
Uh I where I discovered CPN atan NCTM conference.
(22:38):
But I I really continue to seelike two ways of engaging
teachers, kind of very muchconnected to what we've been
talking about.
One way is to give themband-aids, shortcut, perhaps
with the best intention.
But I think how it lands is, youknow, you all are too busy,
(23:02):
apparently's maybe not reallyfully capable of engaging with
this sort of thing.
And I think there's a wholeother set of folks who are
looking at teachers as the theexpert professionals that they
are.
They're able to make greatdecisions around curriculum.
They know how to incorporate thelatest technology.
(23:24):
Yes, even AI.
So it's these two differentapproaches, you know, and
whatever the intent, I think howhow it lands on the teacher is
oh, you see me as a respectedprofessional, a collaborator
with you, CPN.
Uh or it could land as, oh, I'mI'm gonna take this shortcut,
(23:45):
but I don't I don't feel like Iknow why I'm doing it.
Or if it's even going toultimately be a shortcut.
SPEAKER_03 (23:52):
And and immediately when you said that, it just
relates so much to a classroom.
Am I gonna give you a shortcutstudent to like why aren't you
teaching me?
Give me the algorithm, that sortof thing, or am I gonna help you
empower yourself to do thosethings?
SPEAKER_02 (24:12):
So well, and I is as you were saying that I was
thinking about how it'sinteresting, like I think there
is a mix as well of at timesthere are things that are just
that are tedious and read andrepetitive, and making those
efficient or easier so that youcan spend your time on the
(24:32):
things that are harder and takethe thinking and brain is
helpful.
But determining what those areis the trick is a tricky part,
right?
Like if I decide that grading mytests is the redundant and
tedious thing, and I so I'mgonna use multiple choice tests
and put them on scantrons, thatmay not be the best
instructional decision, but itwould free up a lot of my time
(24:53):
for doing something else, right?
So there's there's an it's it'slike where in that decision we
decide what's the thing we don'twant to have to spend time
doing, right?
SPEAKER_00 (25:05):
Absolutely.
And and better to do that withother teachers, right?
Like making that decision alone,I think, is is trickier.
You might be tempted or youmight have your context and are
thinking about otherpossibilities, right?
Uh your example's great, right?
Oh, who wouldn't want to dothat?
Well, when we followed thatroad, the Scantron road, there
(25:30):
were unintended consequencesthat I think we've learned from,
right?
Like that may have saved ustime, sure.
But it also had an impact thatwas not great for students.
So better to have that dialoguewith other teachers.
Yeah.
And today's version, I meanassessment is, you know, I mean
what's on my mind forever.
(25:51):
Assessment is on my mindforever.
And what are we gonna do in thisnew point of inflection, right?
Around assessment.
Are we going to make it moreefficient with the new
technological tools like AI?
And are we considering allpossible impact of that?
(26:12):
Or are there other I would arguemaybe there are other like not
tedious tasks that could bewin-win, right?
Like rather than looking atevery tedious task must be
technologized and all thevaluable tasks, whatever that
means, need to remainhuman-oriented.
(26:32):
Again, whatever that means, wemight be missing like the gray.
SPEAKER_04 (26:39):
Wow.
SPEAKER_03 (26:41):
Yeah, it's uh like I'm trying to think w what's
coming to mind right now is I'llhear somebody may want to have a
system to grade for me.
Somebody else might say, No, Iwant to grade that because I
want to see what my students aredoing.
Somebody else might say, I wantto have a lesson plan planned
for me.
Somebody else might say, Hey, Iwant to plan that lesson because
(27:05):
so like finding that that place,but well, you said before about
not being alone and having anetwork and a connection, I
think is key.
SPEAKER_00 (27:19):
And let's not forget, we're not alone in the
classroom.
Right.
They're 15, 20, god forbid, 35,40, 40 uh humans in there.
And that you know, I think Ithink this technology moment is
really going to challenge us totruly turn over some things to
(27:41):
students.
And maybe some cool things, likethings that we really love as
teachers.
Like, oh, I love doing that.
I want to keep doing that.
But but could students do that?
Could could students do thatwith you?
Sure.
Could students do that insteadof you?
I mean, that's gonna be, Ithink, the next sort of frontier
for what's possible.
SPEAKER_02 (28:05):
As you're saying that, I think, I then I think
about like how I'm trying tofigure out how to even describe
this.
So every year that I'm in theclass, with us in the classroom,
right?
I I learned from that and I andI was like, okay, now I'm gonna
do this thing better, right?
I'm gonna do this thing better,and I'm gonna do this next thing
better.
And I did do many of thosethings better.
(28:27):
And I was also continually,somehow my brain did not
understand that the studentscoming in were still sixth
graders, who were really onlyfifth graders when they started
the year, right?
Like at the end of fifth grade.
And so there was this weird sortof like, I learned from that
experience, but then I hadalways had to remember and go
back that the students have notlearned from that experience.
(28:47):
Wow.
Yeah.
Right.
Like back to the beginning.
So there was how can I take whatI know and reset it, but do it
better at the same time.
I don't know why when you weresaying that, it just made me
think about like, you know, whenwe've been in the, we've been
doing education for years andyears and years and years.
And our students, you know, theyare changing, like the world is
(29:09):
changing and it impacts theirbrains and different things.
But they're still five, eight,fourteen, whatever, you know,
they're still young brains.
I haven't done this yet.
SPEAKER_00 (29:20):
Oh my gosh, that is so so helpful.
And, you know, if I had nevergotten to the place of uh
working uh with early childhoodeducators, I don't think I'd
have so much excitement aroundthis concept.
Because I would see, you know,early childhood educators
(29:41):
engaging students who arelearning to read, yeah, who are
learning their fundamentalnumeracy, right?
And I think the key is to yes,learn as you've described, but
come in as a fellow discovererof wonder, right?
And those.
Early childhood teachers havemuch to teach us about.
(30:04):
Right?
Like we've got to bring in thatthat wonder.
And I would I would say it hasto somehow be built up
authentically.
Like we we have to share in thatmoment of like, oh, I never
thought of it that way, eventhough you have.
You have to find a way to, youknow, engage with that moment of
wonder and the ha, especially,you know, the program like CPM
(30:26):
will where our whole thing islet's solve the world's
problems, let's solve thisproblem together.
And that moment of havingachieved that together, right,
is huge.
SPEAKER_03 (30:38):
Wow.
And uh I so many things in mymind, but like so the first
thing is I think about when I atone point I went to a used
bookstore and I tried to findthe oldest book, and I found a
book by John Dewey.
And I was like, this is amazing.
He's talking aboutcollaboration, he's talking
(30:59):
about make things relevant, he'stalking about all those things,
and we're still talking aboutthose things.
And then the other thing isbeing I I come from a high
school environment in myteaching career.
Well, those kids aren't up tograde level, but they they
really are, they're at theirlevel that they've experienced
to that point.
Like there's and so to yourpoint of let's engage in a way
(31:24):
that we can all discovertogether, I think is huge.
SPEAKER_04 (31:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:28):
That that grade level concept is a great one,
right?
Like, what does that mean?
Right.
Yeah, yeah.
Like what what we're reallysaying is you're not meeting my
expectations.
SPEAKER_03 (31:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:40):
Right now.
And and I think very often we weend up conveying that and in a
way that's unhelpful, right?
Oh, the teacher's disappointedin me, in us.
We're not where we're supposedto be.
Oh my gosh, I'm not good atmath.
unknown (31:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:57):
Yeah.
And and I don't know.
During during the COVID years,you know, with like what is it
learning lost?
Is everybody just holding still?
Like, like what happened, right?
And how we frame it coming out,I think makes a big difference.
I think some places were like,well, we now have to go into
years of remediation foreveryone.
(32:17):
Oh yay.
That's exciting, right?
Like versus, hey, we are wherewe are at.
You know, we're in thistogether.
Like, like there's just two waysto frame that.
And and I'm wondering howclassrooms who are taking the
two different approaches aremoving forward, how schools are,
how districts are.
Um Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (32:38):
I I I taught in a school that we we didn't really
have grade levels.
We had all the middle schoolerstogether.
And I mean, the kids always kindof knew what grade level they
were.
They had to be assigned a gradelevel for external competitions
and things like that.
Like I had to say, okay, you'recompeting as a seventh grade or
whatever in the science fair.
And it was interesting, ofcourse, every adult that they
(33:01):
ever encounter never asked themhow old they are.
They ask them what grade they'rein.
Right.
And and some of my kids would belike, Oh, I'm a middle schooler,
you know, or whatever, or they,you know, but it was this it was
this lovely space where we hadall the kids who were of a sixth
through eighth grade age in thesame classroom.
And so they could f you know,flex within that really pretty
(33:23):
dramatic developmental space forwherever they were.
Some of them their brainssuddenly like and and in a year
suddenly caught up with theirpeers in in interesting ways.
And it was it was really quitelovely and and challenging,
right?
That having to differentiatethat whole breadth.
(33:45):
But then I think about any givenmiddle school classroom that's
assigned as a X grade classroomhas at least that much diversity
in where the kids are in theirthinking and and brain
development.
And yeah, it was it was alwaysreally interesting.
And I always told them, I said,I I don't think of you as an e
whatever, a you know, seventhgrader.
(34:06):
I think of you as Liam.
And I and I give you work basedon what I know and I've seen
Liam can do.
And I don't sometimes I go toofar and sometimes I go too easy,
and that's on me.
But like you're helping me alsogive you that stuff that's at
your learning space.
But I also only had 25 students.
(34:26):
That helps a lot.
I couldn't have done that with108.
SPEAKER_00 (34:30):
Right.
No, I mean you know, I don't Idon't know if you've heard the
joke that in education we reallywent sideways the day we
accepted the second student.
Like everything else at all was,you know, on on us.
But but you know, what you'redescribing is very much like
(34:51):
like real life stuff, right?
Like the CPM classroom and itsstructure in my mind, one of the
powerful elements is that thiswhole prepare for whatever, this
is preparation for life andengaging with other humans,
right?
You do it in groups, you do itin pairs, you do it
asynchronously, synchronouslynow.
And you don't do it in batches,right?
(35:14):
Like we treat kids like, oh,this is the seventh grade batch.
Yeah, this is the eighth gradebatch.
And in life, that just doesn'thappen, right?
Like, oh, you're the you're thezero to five professional batch.
And you know, there's the wholeintergenerational conversation
with this is where you learnedabout equations of lines and you
(35:35):
know them, yes.
Sorry, no promotion because yourbatch number is so many things.
SPEAKER_02 (35:45):
Oh well, as usual, we filled up all our time.
Did we really?
Almost nothing.
Well, we talked about very mucha lot of things.
I'm kidding.
I'm kidding.
SPEAKER_00 (35:55):
I had a lot of wondrous moments.
No, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_02 (35:58):
We had we talked about very my amazing things.
It was more like we didn't havea topic of conversation, was
more like prepared to be alittle bit more than a little
bit.
SPEAKER_00 (36:06):
I'm dying to see what you call call this.
Oh, yeah, that's always a trickypart.
SPEAKER_02 (36:12):
Naming the podcast.
SPEAKER_00 (36:13):
I have beaten uh who is this guy?
What does he want?
Like, I feel like I've got tomove on.
I need it to be a good one.
SPEAKER_02 (36:20):
I'm not gonna be able to stop that one.
SPEAKER_03 (36:22):
Start strong.
Start strong.
SPEAKER_02 (36:24):
Awesome.
So that is all we have time foron this episode of the More Math
for More People podcast.
If you are interested inconnecting with us on social
media, find our links in thepodcast description.
And the music for the podcastwas created by Julius H.
(36:46):
It can be found on pixabay.com.
So thank you very much, Julius.
Join us in two weeks for thenext episode of More Math for
More People.
What day will that be, Joel?
SPEAKER_03 (36:58):
It'll be December 2nd.
Business of Popping Corn Day.
And we'll talk about thebusiness of popping corn.
So here at my house, we have avariety of popping corn
opportunities, different corns,stovetop, microwave, things like
that.
(37:18):
I'd love to share my story ofone of my first jobs when I
worked at the movie theater andwe went to popcorn.
And I could tell stories of thebutter, stories of how that
popcorn ended up in my houseoftentimes because there is so
much.
Looking forward to December 2nd,you know, it's a very good idea.
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Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com