July 22, 2025 • 30 mins
Latrenda Knighten, current president of the National Council of Teachers of Mathematics (NCTM), joins us for the second part of our illuminating conversation on professional collaboration and growth in mathematics education.
We begin with a playful discussion of Pi Approximation Day (July 22nd or 22/7). What will you do to celebrate?
Then part two of our conversation – a profound exploration of professional identity and community in teaching. Knighten draws from her personal journey to illustrate how early exposure to professional networks transformed her teaching practice and accelerated her growth as an educator.
"Teaching can be a career where a lot of times you work in isolation," Knighten observes, highlighting how this isolation creates barriers to professional development. She makes a compelling case for fostering environments where teachers feel comfortable asking questions, sharing challenges, and collaborating across grade levels. These "vertical discussions" prove particularly valuable, allowing educators to understand mathematical progressions more deeply than single-grade expertise permits.
For teachers struggling to find supportive communities, Knighten offers practical strategies—from leveraging virtual platforms to building informal networks outside school hours. "There is no excuse for not having someone to collaborate with," she emphasizes, pointing to technological tools that make connection possible regardless of geographic limitations.
The conversation culminates with Knighten's passionate reminder that effective mathematics teaching practices—student engagement, encouraging questioning, problem-solving, critical thinking—have been validated by decades of research. "Let's stick with what we know is good and effective and let's just build on that," she urges, connecting these approaches to the skills most valued in today's workforce.
Whether you're new to teaching mathematics or a veteran educator, this episode offers invaluable insights into creating professional communities that sustain and enhance your practice. Listen now to discover how breaking free from classroom isolation can transform both your teaching experience and your students' learning outcomes!
You can connect with Latrenda Knighton on X (@LatrendaK)
Send Joel and Misty a message!
The More Math for More People Podcast is produced by CPM Educational Program.
Learn more at CPM.org
X: @cpmmath
Facebook: CPMEducationalProgram
Email: cpmpodcast@cpm.org
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
You are listening to the More Math for More People
podcast.
An outreach of CPM educationalprogram Boom.
An outreach of CPM.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Educational Program Boom Special day, july 22nd.
What do you know?
Two podcasts in a row.
Two podcasts two weeks in a row.
I always kind of go in a row,even if it's every other week.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
They are in some sort of order, some sort of linear
connection.
Extra special 22nd of July it'sNational Day today.
Today is Pi Approximation Day.
Oh, that makes sense.
The number pi not like the food, it's not a food.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Pi approximation.
Well, I made this pie and itonly has one crust.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
So it's approximately a pie.
It's actually a crumble.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, exactly, ah, gotcha, it's a strudel or a
whatever, All right, so pie thenumber pie approximation day,
which makes sense Because it's.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
It goes back to the Babylonians who had estimated
and they had a base 60 system.
So this approximation of theirsequated to about 22 sevenths.
And so thus July the 22nd.
So if it's, the 22nd of Julyright If you were in a different
(01:39):
country and you wrote- youmight do 22 sevenths, you would
write 22 slash seven.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Even right, that's right.
So there you go.
So interesting do 22-7.
The year first you would write22-7 even right, that's right.
So there you go.
So interesting 22-7.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Base 60.
I'm just trying to think of,like, how would you write it in
decimals, but that would bereally hard.
Yeah, yeah, in base 60.
I don't know how you writenumbers in base 60 into base 10.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Okay, stop.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I'm not going to go down that road.
I think that's a road fraughtwith difficulty and confusion.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
For this podcast for sure, but I started using my
finger to do symbols and nobodylistening at this moment can see
what my finger is doing.
No, that's true, that's true,Well and even like hexadecimal.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
you have to use other letters and things like that If
you're trying to write it in abase 10 format.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
And if you've seen the movie the Martian, it's a
good idea to learn hexadecimal,because that's how you'd get
home if you got stuck becausethey used the hexadecimal.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I have to know hexadecimal to get home.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
If you're stuck on Mars.
Yeah, I have to knowhexadecimal to get home If
you're stuck on Mars, yeah.
So I used to talk about thisday with my students Because
here in Utah we celebratePioneer Day and Pioneer Day is
on July 24th, and so on Pi Day,which is when school was
happening, which is March 14th,we'd talk about the number pi,
(03:10):
maybe do a couple activities.
My school actually served pi tothe students, things like that.
So it's kind of a bigcelebration and I would explain
to them about.
There's also a pi approximationand that here in Utah we
celebrate it every year on Julythe 24th and we have a parade,
there's fireworks, it's actuallybigger than the 4th of July and
(03:31):
the students will say no, mrMiller, that's not right, that's
Pioneer Day and I go.
I know it's Pi, oh, it's NearDay.
So that's the approximation.
I'm sure there'll be a laughtrack that we're inserting at
this point.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Well, that's a lot of laughing right here, for sure.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
It hit big in the classroom.
The kids loved it Well.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
I mean it's also approximately.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Pi approximation day.
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
It's just close, it's close enough, it's close enough
, oh goodness gracious.
Yeah it was good times.
Yeah, I'm sure it was goodtimes.
Yeah, I'm sure your studentsloved you.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Well, they pretended to.
And your jokes?
They did have some jokes.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Drowned and moaned.
I hope they did.
So what are you doing tocelebrate actually today not?
Speaker 1 (04:19):
two days from now.
Well, I've been thinking aboutsome unique ways, like perhaps I
could actually get a pie, put abite, like, say, let's on a
fork and almost eat it Like I.
Like it could just be likeright there.
Maybe that would be acelebration.
Maybe that would be acelebration.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I don't know that that's how you would term that
as a celebration.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
I'm not sure.
I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Almost not quite, but sort of wanting to eat pie but
not doing it.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Maybe if you ate almost all the pie.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
You'd leave one bite of pie you could leave some pie,
so you approximately had thepie Approximately eating the pie
.
Yeah, how about you?
How would you celebrate?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah, I'm not sure I put on the spot here.
I mean I did a lot of pie stuffwhen I was in classroom, but I
haven't done much since I'vebeen out of the classroom quite
frankly, you know, I'm not sureI'm going to have to.
Just, I mean, I need to consultyour list, okay, Come up with
some ideas.
All right, I don't have one offthe top of my head, all right,
but we're curious how ourlisteners might be celebrating
(05:31):
Approximately Pi Day.
Pi Approximation Day, yeah, andif you do, you can send them to
our fan mail, yes, please.
So last podcast we had LatrendaKnighton with us.
(06:00):
She's the current president ofNCTM and also a person who has
been very active in all sorts ofprofessional organizations as
well as professional learning, astrong advocate for teachers.
If you missed part one of ourconversation, please go back to
episode 5.5.
It launched last week andlisten to that, and then you can
(06:23):
listen here to part two.
Enjoy, I want to shift just alittle bit.
So in a few weeks here you'regoing to be coming down to San
Diego to speak with our teachersat the Academy of Best
Practices.
Joel will be there and I thinkthe topic that you've been given
I'm not sure how much guidanceyou've been given around.
(06:43):
this is professionalism, sowe're curious what thoughts you
have around that topic for newteachers, existing teachers,
retired teachers.
When you think about that, whatcomes up for you?
Speaker 3 (06:58):
You know that is one of my favorite topics and it's
always one of my pet things as ateacher leader, because you
know it makes me think about,and actually I wrote one of my
president's messages on that,which is a little funny.
But I think about when I was anearly career teacher, just early
(07:22):
career, just leaving college.
I was an early career teacher,just early career, just leaving
college, and so you know a lotof times when someone says, ok,
what's your level ofprofessionalism.
You know for me, if you were toask me when I first graduated
college and I was going to myfirst real job, which was
(07:42):
teaching people's littlechildren or whatever, and it was
like oh, my God, you know, youtrust me to be responsible.
You know, it's like I'm still mymom's still making my meals and
ironing my clothes for me too,but you know, but you know we
(08:04):
could all be so lucky, but youknow, I think about you know my
parents okay, well, you knowprofessionalism.
Okay, am I dressing correctlyor the way?
Speaker 1 (08:14):
they wanted me to dress.
Am I?
Speaker 3 (08:16):
speaking kindly to folks and things like that.
But what I think about when wetalk about of course I'm want to
talk about math, but I thinkthis is for any content area is
fostering that culture ofprofessionalism, and it's so
important that we do that.
And so one of the things that Iappreciated by being introduced
(08:41):
to affiliate groups early in myteaching career is that is
exactly what my math supervisordid, you know, within our school
district.
She used that to create thatnetwork of learners, and so very
early on I um, I do realizethat I am so lucky that there
(09:06):
was someone who thought that way, you know, when I started
teaching, because that's I havefound out that that's not the
norm everywhere.
You know teaching can be acareer where a lot of times you
work in isolation.
You know you go into yourclassroom and you're working
with your students or yourgroups of students.
(09:27):
Sometimes you may have a weeklymeeting with grade level peers
or your peers who teach the samecourse.
Sometimes you don't, and so itjust doesn't work that way.
It doesn't work well that way.
You know, when we were talkingabout students and the types of
(09:48):
habits of mind, and so youbrought up a good point is, you
want to foster that environmentwhere students feel it's okay to
ask questions.
That's the same thing we wantfor adults, because no one knows
everything, regardless of whereyou are in your teaching career
, you know, early career,mid-career or towards the end of
(10:10):
your teaching career.
And so when I think aboutprofessionalism and fostering
that culture of professionalism,one of the most important
things that you can do for thatis to foster that sense of
collaboration through that senseof collaboration.
(10:30):
And so I think about my ownteaching career, how important
that was to me as a learner andhow I grew really exponentially
by having those opportunities.
I was very fortunate because Imentioned, you know, my
supervisor and the things thatthey provided.
But I was fortunate that we hadactual a professional learning
(10:52):
program where it was forteachers.
It was funded with Title Ifunds and so first it was just a
select group of schools.
So we came together on aregular basis for professional
learning, just in mathematics,you know.
And so there were those of uson our campus who were part of
the project.
(11:12):
Then we worked with people onother school campuses to meet
people just in my region.
Then I branched out to thestate level.
So it really helped grow mylevel of contact with other math
(11:34):
educators.
So it allowed me not just tolearn about just teaching
strategies and things like that,just to learn from others and
to have people to ask questionsof who could provide guidance
for me but at the same time, tobe a resource for others.
(11:56):
And if you know, there's onething that is really important
that we do is to make sure thatwe remove that sense of teachers
working in silos.
You know, I'm in my classroom, Ijust work with my students and
provide those regularopportunities for collaboration,
(12:16):
regular opportunities forteachers on a campus to work
with each other, teachers acrosscampuses to work with each
other, and one of the piecesthat we don't get enough time to
do is having that cross-gradelevel collaboration, you know,
having those times for thosevertical discussions, and that's
(12:39):
when you find out oh, that'sthe free requisite for this.
That's how this is introduced,because you only know what you
know and if you're lucky enoughto teach like the great level
that you really like, and onlythat great level, you may never
find out what are some of thosethings you do to actually get a
(13:01):
student started on their journeyfor this particular skill, this
particular content area, and soproviding those regular
opportunities for that goes along way towards fostering that
sense of collaboration.
And then that helps to thinkabout that professionalism,
(13:22):
because, as a mathematicseducator, I should be engaged in
ongoing learning opportunities.
So that's talking andnetworking with others, you know
, being a part of thoseprofessional organizations,
taking advantage of thoseresources, so that I'm
constantly looking at researchthat supports effective teaching
(13:46):
and learning of mathematics,and so I'm aware of those things
and I'm constantly looking andreflecting and reviewing my
practices and incorporatingthose things, you know, into
what I do and what I'm doing.
And just having thoseopportunities to ask questions
and having that comfortableenvironment that someone
(14:10):
actually supports you and beingable to do that and work with
and support others.
It's just invaluable foreducators to be able to do that,
and we're not going to be ableto be at our best if we don't
have that type of environment,because we learn well with each
(14:33):
other and from each other, andso it's really important to have
that as part of that sense ofprofessionalism, I believe.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
I've been fortunate to work in schools that are very
supportive of that vision andalso schools that are not
supportive of that vision.
And if you, if you were to giveadvice to a teacher who maybe
is struggling and would like totalk to people, would like to be
connected, what kind of avenueswould you suggest?
(15:05):
Is it it joining NCTM?
Is it just reaching out in acommunity?
What do you think would be agood strategy?
Speaker 3 (15:12):
You know, and that is such a good question because
it's.
You know, in the past Iremember I had to be physically
in the room with other folks tocollaborate with them.
You know, I'm fortunate that Ilearned before the pandemic that
I didn't have to do that.
Some people didn't realize thatuntil the pandemic.
(15:32):
So there were some good things,you know, and I would tell the
teachers that I would support, Iwould say there is no excuse
for not having someone tocollaborate with, because
there's some type of mechanismthat we can all use, you know,
to have a video meeting withsomeone, to have a virtual
(15:54):
meeting with someone.
So I would say reach out tofirst to platforms such as
MyNCTM, because you don't haveto be a member to be a part, you
just have to join, and so youcan use that network as a
platform to reach out.
Hey, I'm having some ideasabout such and such.
(16:17):
You want to have any ideas,things like that.
And so I watch people whocontinually share and ask
questions on that platform, whocontinually share and ask
questions on that platform, andso I'm sure later they find a
way, you know, to network witheach other outside of there.
And so I usually like in myschool district, which in
(16:42):
Louisiana is the second largestschool district, but I realize
when you look at much largerstates is not really that big.
But for us, you know, 43,000plus students is kind of large
to us.
But, you know, I would tell them.
If there's a time when we have,like, maybe at the beginning of
the year, like a lot of folksdo, that face-to-face time where
(17:03):
everyone comes together, listenfor people who sound, you know,
as if they're like-minded,things like that Get email
addresses, you know, getsomething.
And then from there, now youhave to build your own community
.
You can build your owncommunity If you don't have it
on your campus, you can build itvirtually, you know, because,
(17:27):
like my district was a teamsdistrict, so you can schedule a
teams meeting, find out whenthis person has a planning
period, find a common period,even if it's just 15 minutes,
that you can get on a call andsay, you know I'm playing in the
lesson next week, and these arethings I'm thinking about.
Say you know I'm playing in thelesson next week, and these are
(17:49):
things I'm thinking about.
I know that I need toincorporate more opportunities
for my students to engage indiscourse.
What are some things you'redoing?
Or this is something we bothwant to work on what have you
found?
An article, or have you foundsomething you can read or a
webinar?
That was, and it basicallybecause, like you, I've been on
(18:14):
campuses where you know that wasthat constant thing.
And then I've been on somewhere it was just like let me go
in my door and shut the door.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
And God forbid, someone comes and knocks on and
asks me a question.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
But you know there's a way easier than it was when I
started teaching, when we didn'thave these things available to
us without an extra cost oranything.
And I encourage teachers, dothat for yourself.
Take advantage of so manyopportunities that are there.
Start with your professionalorganizations, because you can
(18:53):
come in contact with folks andyou might say, say, is there
anyone who would like to get ona zoom to talk about this or
that?
And people say that.
I see people do that all thetime.
I saw someone and I actuallyknew them.
It's like we want to try outour presentation for a
conference.
So tell me if you'd beinterested in coming to a zoom
(19:13):
so we can try out ourpresentation.
You guys give us feedback andso from there you can build that
network.
Now I know the old school wayof doing it.
Even though I had thatwonderful professional learning
project I was part of, and earlyon at the school where I was, I
(19:35):
really didn't have people on mycampus who really believed that
way and wanted to talk aboutthose things or even wanted to,
you know, read the NCTM articlesand things like with when we
had our monthly meetings, and sowe made our own little group
(20:00):
and so we would meet like once amonth on Saturdays.
You know, we'd go have a nicedinner along with it and we'd
bring all our little teacherystuff and so we would talk about
all the things that we weretrying to implement in our
classrooms.
We all taught at the same gradelevel and so we'd share ideas,
share activities.
If one person tries somethingout in their room, the next
(20:23):
person would come back and say,okay, I tried this.
This is what happened when Idid it with my students and
things like that.
And I think about and it was formy group it was just three of
us who met all the time outsideof the other meetings.
Eventually I met otherlike-minded folks and so we met
in different ways, but initiallyit was just three of us.
(20:46):
What was beneficial for me isthese were two teachers who were
much further along in theirteaching career than I was, who
were much further along in theirteaching career than I was.
So, in addition to us havingthat network for math, they
could help me with things likeclassroom management.
They could help me with thingsabout organizing all the little
(21:09):
things you have to learn how toorganize as a teacher that you
just don't learn in pre-serviceor whatever and so they helped
me in so many ways, because Iwas taught to teach the way we
were talking about.
That's how I was taught by astudent teacher.
My supervising teacher taughtthat way.
There were things I could helpthem with, because my college
(21:34):
experience had been doing thisand so, even though I only had a
few years teaching under mybelt, I could be a resource to
them.
And so we found a way out,because all three of us were in
teaching environments where wedidn't really have colleagues
who really supported that way ofteaching.
(21:55):
But we got together outside ofour monthly meetings with
everyone else and supported eachother, and so, but now we can
do that virtually.
You know there's we don't haveto physically.
Now it's nice to go out andhave seafood because I'm in
Louisiana.
So it's nice to have that youknow, but you don't have to have
(22:18):
that and I can say that I dohave like a couple of friends
now who are nowhere nearLouisiana.
But I can say I've got an idea,I want to shop around.
Would you be willing to get ona call with me, let's talk about
it, and so we can get on a Zoomor we might.
Sometimes we might just talk,you know, and we'll share ideas
(22:40):
and you know I can send you this, I can send you that.
Give me your feedback and somake your own group.
If it's not physically whereyou are, there's so many
mechanisms where you can reachout to folks because you want to
have just the benefits ofworking with others, learning
(23:01):
from others, having someone totry your ideas out on and to
provide feedback and really justto support you.
You know to be, you know yourcheering squad, you know those
types of things.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Well, what I'm hearing is so one thing in the
classroom that I valued andtried to have my students value
is collaboration, and oftentimesa student would ask when will I
ever need this in real?
Speaker 3 (23:25):
life.
I think you just nailed it.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
I think you said it.
So we're getting close to theend of our time and I'm just
wondering if there was anythingelse that you wanted to like
that we didn't ask you about.
That you're like I reallywanted to make sure and say this
and if there's not.
That's fine, we can move on.
Let me think about that.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Yeah, no worries because there's there's so many
things buzzing around in my headat this moment, or whatever.
You know, I see, if you know, somany times we hear some people
are still saying, oh, it'sdifferent, it's different.
But I think if people go backand even if you just talk to
(24:17):
different people who are atdifferent parts of their
teaching career on your campus,or you just go back and look at
some of the Legacy Journalarticles and things like that,
you'll see that we know that.
(24:45):
We know, like somebody askedbefore, okay, now that we know
what it is we need to do, it'slike we've known for a long time
what are effective teachingpractices.
You know we talk aboutprinciples, of actions a lot,
which just celebrated its 10year, now 11-year anniversary
but even then those were notpractices that were new to 2014.
(25:07):
Those are all things that wehad researched that could go
back years upon year, year toshow that these were effective
teaching practices.
So one of the things that Iwould love to see you know in
education, people say, if youjust stick around, you're going
to see things come back around.
You know, let's stick with whatwe know is good and effective
(25:30):
and let's just build on that.
You know, because the thingsthat we're talking about being
relevant having studentsactively engaged, encouraging
students to ask and answerquestions.
You can go back 50 years or moreand you see research that talks
(25:50):
about that.
And when you talk about peoplewho maybe we admire, you know in
different science and mathfields, those are people who did
those types of things as kids.
You know, and they were allowedto, or either because they
weren't allowed to, they decidedI'm going to do it now more as
an adult.
(26:11):
Know what are those effectiveteaching practices.
We just need to stick with themand be consistent and support
our students with those habitsof mind but accompany that by
providing those opportunitiesfor the people who are in front
of our students to actually havean opportunity to engage in
(26:35):
that deep learning of the mathcontent positioned with that
pedagogy, so that I know how doI provide those opportunities
for students, how do I best dothat and really position that
content in such a way that it'smaking sense to students, the
(26:56):
students are actively engaged,and that's the asking and
answering questions, that's thesense-making, that's the
problem-solving, the criticalthinking.
And you know, for once theworkforce is saying we need
problem solvers, we needcritical thinkers, we need
people who are able to askquestions and answer questions
(27:20):
and we need our students to beconnoisseurs of all the
information they're bombardedwith, because that's how they're
going to be able to make thosedecisions, and so that's how
we're going to help them to besuccessful in whatever they
choose to do, because they'llhave to do that, no matter where
they are.
It doesn't matter what job theydo.
(27:43):
They're going to need to beable to do that.
Just if we can foster thatconfidence in them and in
ourselves as well, that we'reable to do that, I think we'll
be a long way towards reallyjust supporting our students,
just stay the course you knowand provide our students with
what we know is good and rightfor them.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
I believe Wow, that was lovely.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah, thank you so much for coming on the podcast
today.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
We've appreciated hearing you speak.
It's been amazing.
It was great it was great.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
It was great.
Thank you so much.
So that is all we have time foron this episode of the More
Math for More People podcast.
If you are interested inconnecting with us on social
media, find our links in thepodcast description, and the
(28:41):
music for the podcast wascreated by Julius H.
It can be found on pixabaycom.
So thank you very much, julius.
Join us in two weeks for thenext episode of More Math for
More People.
What day will that be, joel?
Speaker 1 (28:59):
It'll be August 5th, national Couscous Day, so I
actually don't have that muchexperience with cuckoos couscous
, so I'm excited to hear whatMisty has to say, see what we
can learn with facts andcelebrations and celebrating
couscous.
I know that it can be adelicious treat in a salad, in a
(29:21):
meal, as a side, and so I lookforward to learning more and
more about couscous and I planon finding a recipe that I'm
going to make.
So I'll share how that went andwe'll go from there.
So tune back in on August 5thand we'll see you then.
Thank you.
You are listening to the More Math for More People
podcast.
An outreach of CPM educationalprogram Boom.
An outreach of CPM.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Educational Program Boom Special day, july 22nd.
What do you know?
Two podcasts in a row.
Two podcasts two weeks in a row.
I always kind of go in a row,even if it's every other week.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
They are in some sort of order, some sort of linear
connection.
Extra special 22nd of July it'sNational Day today.
Today is Pi Approximation Day.
Oh, that makes sense.
The number pi not like the food, it's not a food.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Pi approximation.
Well, I made this pie and itonly has one crust.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
So it's approximately a pie.
It's actually a crumble.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, exactly, ah, gotcha, it's a strudel or a
whatever, All right, so pie thenumber pie approximation day,
which makes sense Because it's.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
It goes back to the Babylonians who had estimated
and they had a base 60 system.
So this approximation of theirsequated to about 22 sevenths.
And so thus July the 22nd.
So if it's, the 22nd of Julyright If you were in a different
(01:39):
country and you wrote- youmight do 22 sevenths, you would
write 22 slash seven.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Even right, that's right.
So there you go.
So interesting do 22-7.
The year first you would write22-7 even right, that's right.
So there you go.
So interesting 22-7.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Base 60.
I'm just trying to think of,like, how would you write it in
decimals, but that would bereally hard.
Yeah, yeah, in base 60.
I don't know how you writenumbers in base 60 into base 10.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Okay, stop.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I'm not going to go down that road.
I think that's a road fraughtwith difficulty and confusion.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
For this podcast for sure, but I started using my
finger to do symbols and nobodylistening at this moment can see
what my finger is doing.
No, that's true, that's true,Well and even like hexadecimal.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
you have to use other letters and things like that If
you're trying to write it in abase 10 format.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
And if you've seen the movie the Martian, it's a
good idea to learn hexadecimal,because that's how you'd get
home if you got stuck becausethey used the hexadecimal.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I have to know hexadecimal to get home.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
If you're stuck on Mars.
Yeah, I have to knowhexadecimal to get home If
you're stuck on Mars, yeah.
So I used to talk about thisday with my students Because
here in Utah we celebratePioneer Day and Pioneer Day is
on July 24th, and so on Pi Day,which is when school was
happening, which is March 14th,we'd talk about the number pi,
(03:10):
maybe do a couple activities.
My school actually served pi tothe students, things like that.
So it's kind of a bigcelebration and I would explain
to them about.
There's also a pi approximationand that here in Utah we
celebrate it every year on Julythe 24th and we have a parade,
there's fireworks, it's actuallybigger than the 4th of July and
(03:31):
the students will say no, mrMiller, that's not right, that's
Pioneer Day and I go.
I know it's Pi, oh, it's NearDay.
So that's the approximation.
I'm sure there'll be a laughtrack that we're inserting at
this point.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Well, that's a lot of laughing right here, for sure.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
It hit big in the classroom.
The kids loved it Well.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
I mean it's also approximately.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Pi approximation day.
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
It's just close, it's close enough, it's close enough
, oh goodness gracious.
Yeah it was good times.
Yeah, I'm sure it was goodtimes.
Yeah, I'm sure your studentsloved you.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Well, they pretended to.
And your jokes?
They did have some jokes.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Drowned and moaned.
I hope they did.
So what are you doing tocelebrate actually today not?
Speaker 1 (04:19):
two days from now.
Well, I've been thinking aboutsome unique ways, like perhaps I
could actually get a pie, put abite, like, say, let's on a
fork and almost eat it Like I.
Like it could just be likeright there.
Maybe that would be acelebration.
Maybe that would be acelebration.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I don't know that that's how you would term that
as a celebration.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
I'm not sure.
I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Almost not quite, but sort of wanting to eat pie but
not doing it.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Maybe if you ate almost all the pie.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
You'd leave one bite of pie you could leave some pie,
so you approximately had thepie Approximately eating the pie
.
Yeah, how about you?
How would you celebrate?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah, I'm not sure I put on the spot here.
I mean I did a lot of pie stuffwhen I was in classroom, but I
haven't done much since I'vebeen out of the classroom quite
frankly, you know, I'm not sureI'm going to have to.
Just, I mean, I need to consultyour list, okay, Come up with
some ideas.
All right, I don't have one offthe top of my head, all right,
but we're curious how ourlisteners might be celebrating
(05:31):
Approximately Pi Day.
Pi Approximation Day, yeah, andif you do, you can send them to
our fan mail, yes, please.
So last podcast we had LatrendaKnighton with us.
(06:00):
She's the current president ofNCTM and also a person who has
been very active in all sorts ofprofessional organizations as
well as professional learning, astrong advocate for teachers.
If you missed part one of ourconversation, please go back to
episode 5.5.
It launched last week andlisten to that, and then you can
(06:23):
listen here to part two.
Enjoy, I want to shift just alittle bit.
So in a few weeks here you'regoing to be coming down to San
Diego to speak with our teachersat the Academy of Best
Practices.
Joel will be there and I thinkthe topic that you've been given
I'm not sure how much guidanceyou've been given around.
(06:43):
this is professionalism, sowe're curious what thoughts you
have around that topic for newteachers, existing teachers,
retired teachers.
When you think about that, whatcomes up for you?
Speaker 3 (06:58):
You know that is one of my favorite topics and it's
always one of my pet things as ateacher leader, because you
know it makes me think about,and actually I wrote one of my
president's messages on that,which is a little funny.
But I think about when I was anearly career teacher, just early
(07:22):
career, just leaving college.
I was an early career teacher,just early career, just leaving
college, and so you know a lotof times when someone says, ok,
what's your level ofprofessionalism.
You know for me, if you were toask me when I first graduated
college and I was going to myfirst real job, which was
(07:42):
teaching people's littlechildren or whatever, and it was
like oh, my God, you know, youtrust me to be responsible.
You know, it's like I'm still mymom's still making my meals and
ironing my clothes for me too,but you know, but you know we
(08:04):
could all be so lucky, but youknow, I think about you know my
parents okay, well, you knowprofessionalism.
Okay, am I dressing correctlyor the way?
Speaker 1 (08:14):
they wanted me to dress.
Am I?
Speaker 3 (08:16):
speaking kindly to folks and things like that.
But what I think about when wetalk about of course I'm want to
talk about math, but I thinkthis is for any content area is
fostering that culture ofprofessionalism, and it's so
important that we do that.
And so one of the things that Iappreciated by being introduced
(08:41):
to affiliate groups early in myteaching career is that is
exactly what my math supervisordid, you know, within our school
district.
She used that to create thatnetwork of learners, and so very
early on I um, I do realizethat I am so lucky that there
(09:06):
was someone who thought that way, you know, when I started
teaching, because that's I havefound out that that's not the
norm everywhere.
You know teaching can be acareer where a lot of times you
work in isolation.
You know you go into yourclassroom and you're working
with your students or yourgroups of students.
(09:27):
Sometimes you may have a weeklymeeting with grade level peers
or your peers who teach the samecourse.
Sometimes you don't, and so itjust doesn't work that way.
It doesn't work well that way.
You know, when we were talkingabout students and the types of
(09:48):
habits of mind, and so youbrought up a good point is, you
want to foster that environmentwhere students feel it's okay to
ask questions.
That's the same thing we wantfor adults, because no one knows
everything, regardless of whereyou are in your teaching career
, you know, early career,mid-career or towards the end of
(10:10):
your teaching career.
And so when I think aboutprofessionalism and fostering
that culture of professionalism,one of the most important
things that you can do for thatis to foster that sense of
collaboration through that senseof collaboration.
(10:30):
And so I think about my ownteaching career, how important
that was to me as a learner andhow I grew really exponentially
by having those opportunities.
I was very fortunate because Imentioned, you know, my
supervisor and the things thatthey provided.
But I was fortunate that we hadactual a professional learning
(10:52):
program where it was forteachers.
It was funded with Title Ifunds and so first it was just a
select group of schools.
So we came together on aregular basis for professional
learning, just in mathematics,you know.
And so there were those of uson our campus who were part of
the project.
(11:12):
Then we worked with people onother school campuses to meet
people just in my region.
Then I branched out to thestate level.
So it really helped grow mylevel of contact with other math
(11:34):
educators.
So it allowed me not just tolearn about just teaching
strategies and things like that,just to learn from others and
to have people to ask questionsof who could provide guidance
for me but at the same time, tobe a resource for others.
(11:56):
And if you know, there's onething that is really important
that we do is to make sure thatwe remove that sense of teachers
working in silos.
You know, I'm in my classroom, Ijust work with my students and
provide those regularopportunities for collaboration,
(12:16):
regular opportunities forteachers on a campus to work
with each other, teachers acrosscampuses to work with each
other, and one of the piecesthat we don't get enough time to
do is having that cross-gradelevel collaboration, you know,
having those times for thosevertical discussions, and that's
(12:39):
when you find out oh, that'sthe free requisite for this.
That's how this is introduced,because you only know what you
know and if you're lucky enoughto teach like the great level
that you really like, and onlythat great level, you may never
find out what are some of thosethings you do to actually get a
(13:01):
student started on their journeyfor this particular skill, this
particular content area, and soproviding those regular
opportunities for that goes along way towards fostering that
sense of collaboration.
And then that helps to thinkabout that professionalism,
(13:22):
because, as a mathematicseducator, I should be engaged in
ongoing learning opportunities.
So that's talking andnetworking with others, you know
, being a part of thoseprofessional organizations,
taking advantage of thoseresources, so that I'm
constantly looking at researchthat supports effective teaching
(13:46):
and learning of mathematics,and so I'm aware of those things
and I'm constantly looking andreflecting and reviewing my
practices and incorporatingthose things, you know, into
what I do and what I'm doing.
And just having thoseopportunities to ask questions
and having that comfortableenvironment that someone
(14:10):
actually supports you and beingable to do that and work with
and support others.
It's just invaluable foreducators to be able to do that,
and we're not going to be ableto be at our best if we don't
have that type of environment,because we learn well with each
(14:33):
other and from each other, andso it's really important to have
that as part of that sense ofprofessionalism, I believe.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
I've been fortunate to work in schools that are very
supportive of that vision andalso schools that are not
supportive of that vision.
And if you, if you were to giveadvice to a teacher who maybe
is struggling and would like totalk to people, would like to be
connected, what kind of avenueswould you suggest?
(15:05):
Is it it joining NCTM?
Is it just reaching out in acommunity?
What do you think would be agood strategy?
Speaker 3 (15:12):
You know, and that is such a good question because
it's.
You know, in the past Iremember I had to be physically
in the room with other folks tocollaborate with them.
You know, I'm fortunate that Ilearned before the pandemic that
I didn't have to do that.
Some people didn't realize thatuntil the pandemic.
(15:32):
So there were some good things,you know, and I would tell the
teachers that I would support, Iwould say there is no excuse
for not having someone tocollaborate with, because
there's some type of mechanismthat we can all use, you know,
to have a video meeting withsomeone, to have a virtual
(15:54):
meeting with someone.
So I would say reach out tofirst to platforms such as
MyNCTM, because you don't haveto be a member to be a part, you
just have to join, and so youcan use that network as a
platform to reach out.
Hey, I'm having some ideasabout such and such.
(16:17):
You want to have any ideas,things like that.
And so I watch people whocontinually share and ask
questions on that platform, whocontinually share and ask
questions on that platform, andso I'm sure later they find a
way, you know, to network witheach other outside of there.
And so I usually like in myschool district, which in
(16:42):
Louisiana is the second largestschool district, but I realize
when you look at much largerstates is not really that big.
But for us, you know, 43,000plus students is kind of large
to us.
But, you know, I would tell them.
If there's a time when we have,like, maybe at the beginning of
the year, like a lot of folksdo, that face-to-face time where
(17:03):
everyone comes together, listenfor people who sound, you know,
as if they're like-minded,things like that Get email
addresses, you know, getsomething.
And then from there, now youhave to build your own community
.
You can build your owncommunity If you don't have it
on your campus, you can build itvirtually, you know, because,
(17:27):
like my district was a teamsdistrict, so you can schedule a
teams meeting, find out whenthis person has a planning
period, find a common period,even if it's just 15 minutes,
that you can get on a call andsay, you know I'm playing in the
lesson next week, and these arethings I'm thinking about.
Say you know I'm playing in thelesson next week, and these are
(17:49):
things I'm thinking about.
I know that I need toincorporate more opportunities
for my students to engage indiscourse.
What are some things you'redoing?
Or this is something we bothwant to work on what have you
found?
An article, or have you foundsomething you can read or a
webinar?
That was, and it basicallybecause, like you, I've been on
(18:14):
campuses where you know that wasthat constant thing.
And then I've been on somewhere it was just like let me go
in my door and shut the door.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
And God forbid, someone comes and knocks on and
asks me a question.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
But you know there's a way easier than it was when I
started teaching, when we didn'thave these things available to
us without an extra cost oranything.
And I encourage teachers, dothat for yourself.
Take advantage of so manyopportunities that are there.
Start with your professionalorganizations, because you can
(18:53):
come in contact with folks andyou might say, say, is there
anyone who would like to get ona zoom to talk about this or
that?
And people say that.
I see people do that all thetime.
I saw someone and I actuallyknew them.
It's like we want to try outour presentation for a
conference.
So tell me if you'd beinterested in coming to a zoom
(19:13):
so we can try out ourpresentation.
You guys give us feedback andso from there you can build that
network.
Now I know the old school wayof doing it.
Even though I had thatwonderful professional learning
project I was part of, and earlyon at the school where I was, I
(19:35):
really didn't have people on mycampus who really believed that
way and wanted to talk aboutthose things or even wanted to,
you know, read the NCTM articlesand things like with when we
had our monthly meetings, and sowe made our own little group
(20:00):
and so we would meet like once amonth on Saturdays.
You know, we'd go have a nicedinner along with it and we'd
bring all our little teacherystuff and so we would talk about
all the things that we weretrying to implement in our
classrooms.
We all taught at the same gradelevel and so we'd share ideas,
share activities.
If one person tries somethingout in their room, the next
(20:23):
person would come back and say,okay, I tried this.
This is what happened when Idid it with my students and
things like that.
And I think about and it was formy group it was just three of
us who met all the time outsideof the other meetings.
Eventually I met otherlike-minded folks and so we met
in different ways, but initiallyit was just three of us.
(20:46):
What was beneficial for me isthese were two teachers who were
much further along in theirteaching career than I was, who
were much further along in theirteaching career than I was.
So, in addition to us havingthat network for math, they
could help me with things likeclassroom management.
They could help me with thingsabout organizing all the little
(21:09):
things you have to learn how toorganize as a teacher that you
just don't learn in pre-serviceor whatever and so they helped
me in so many ways, because Iwas taught to teach the way we
were talking about.
That's how I was taught by astudent teacher.
My supervising teacher taughtthat way.
There were things I could helpthem with, because my college
(21:34):
experience had been doing thisand so, even though I only had a
few years teaching under mybelt, I could be a resource to
them.
And so we found a way out,because all three of us were in
teaching environments where wedidn't really have colleagues
who really supported that way ofteaching.
(21:55):
But we got together outside ofour monthly meetings with
everyone else and supported eachother, and so, but now we can
do that virtually.
You know there's we don't haveto physically.
Now it's nice to go out andhave seafood because I'm in
Louisiana.
So it's nice to have that youknow, but you don't have to have
(22:18):
that and I can say that I dohave like a couple of friends
now who are nowhere nearLouisiana.
But I can say I've got an idea,I want to shop around.
Would you be willing to get ona call with me, let's talk about
it, and so we can get on a Zoomor we might.
Sometimes we might just talk,you know, and we'll share ideas
(22:40):
and you know I can send you this, I can send you that.
Give me your feedback and somake your own group.
If it's not physically whereyou are, there's so many
mechanisms where you can reachout to folks because you want to
have just the benefits ofworking with others, learning
(23:01):
from others, having someone totry your ideas out on and to
provide feedback and really justto support you.
You know to be, you know yourcheering squad, you know those
types of things.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Well, what I'm hearing is so one thing in the
classroom that I valued andtried to have my students value
is collaboration, and oftentimesa student would ask when will I
ever need this in real?
Speaker 3 (23:25):
life.
I think you just nailed it.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
I think you said it.
So we're getting close to theend of our time and I'm just
wondering if there was anythingelse that you wanted to like
that we didn't ask you about.
That you're like I reallywanted to make sure and say this
and if there's not.
That's fine, we can move on.
Let me think about that.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Yeah, no worries because there's there's so many
things buzzing around in my headat this moment, or whatever.
You know, I see, if you know, somany times we hear some people
are still saying, oh, it'sdifferent, it's different.
But I think if people go backand even if you just talk to
(24:17):
different people who are atdifferent parts of their
teaching career on your campus,or you just go back and look at
some of the Legacy Journalarticles and things like that,
you'll see that we know that.
(24:45):
We know, like somebody askedbefore, okay, now that we know
what it is we need to do, it'slike we've known for a long time
what are effective teachingpractices.
You know we talk aboutprinciples, of actions a lot,
which just celebrated its 10year, now 11-year anniversary
but even then those were notpractices that were new to 2014.
(25:07):
Those are all things that wehad researched that could go
back years upon year, year toshow that these were effective
teaching practices.
So one of the things that Iwould love to see you know in
education, people say, if youjust stick around, you're going
to see things come back around.
You know, let's stick with whatwe know is good and effective
(25:30):
and let's just build on that.
You know, because the thingsthat we're talking about being
relevant having studentsactively engaged, encouraging
students to ask and answerquestions.
You can go back 50 years or moreand you see research that talks
(25:50):
about that.
And when you talk about peoplewho maybe we admire, you know in
different science and mathfields, those are people who did
those types of things as kids.
You know, and they were allowedto, or either because they
weren't allowed to, they decidedI'm going to do it now more as
an adult.
(26:11):
Know what are those effectiveteaching practices.
We just need to stick with themand be consistent and support
our students with those habitsof mind but accompany that by
providing those opportunitiesfor the people who are in front
of our students to actually havean opportunity to engage in
(26:35):
that deep learning of the mathcontent positioned with that
pedagogy, so that I know how doI provide those opportunities
for students, how do I best dothat and really position that
content in such a way that it'smaking sense to students, the
(26:56):
students are actively engaged,and that's the asking and
answering questions, that's thesense-making, that's the
problem-solving, the criticalthinking.
And you know, for once theworkforce is saying we need
problem solvers, we needcritical thinkers, we need
people who are able to askquestions and answer questions
(27:20):
and we need our students to beconnoisseurs of all the
information they're bombardedwith, because that's how they're
going to be able to make thosedecisions, and so that's how
we're going to help them to besuccessful in whatever they
choose to do, because they'llhave to do that, no matter where
they are.
It doesn't matter what job theydo.
(27:43):
They're going to need to beable to do that.
Just if we can foster thatconfidence in them and in
ourselves as well, that we'reable to do that, I think we'll
be a long way towards reallyjust supporting our students,
just stay the course you knowand provide our students with
what we know is good and rightfor them.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
I believe Wow, that was lovely.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah, thank you so much for coming on the podcast
today.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
We've appreciated hearing you speak.
It's been amazing.
It was great it was great.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
It was great.
Thank you so much.
So that is all we have time foron this episode of the More
Math for More People podcast.
If you are interested inconnecting with us on social
media, find our links in thepodcast description, and the
(28:41):
music for the podcast wascreated by Julius H.
It can be found on pixabaycom.
So thank you very much, julius.
Join us in two weeks for thenext episode of More Math for
More People.
What day will that be, joel?
Speaker 1 (28:59):
It'll be August 5th, national Couscous Day, so I
actually don't have that muchexperience with cuckoos couscous
, so I'm excited to hear whatMisty has to say, see what we
can learn with facts andcelebrations and celebrating
couscous.
I know that it can be adelicious treat in a salad, in a
(29:21):
meal, as a side, and so I lookforward to learning more and
more about couscous and I planon finding a recipe that I'm
going to make.
So I'll share how that went andwe'll go from there.
So tune back in on August 5thand we'll see you then.
Thank you.
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