A Marriage Built on Purpose- Interview with April Willar's on Foundations of Healthy Relationships

In this episode, we’re joined by April Willars, wife of social media influencer Chris “Life” Willars, who spent 17 years incarcerated. You’ve heard Chris’s story last season — now it’s time to hear April’s. She opens up about how they met, why she set boundaries early on, and how building a friendship first helped their love survive through the walls and beyond them.

April gets real about what it was like when Chris finally came home, the unexpected challenges of re-entry, and what it truly means to love with purpose, not just emotion.

Find us on⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TikTok, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Follow Jae's husband Nicholas Ely on Facebook "⁠⁠⁠More Than An Inmate⁠⁠⁠" or the Facebook group "⁠⁠⁠End Felony Murder Rule in Nebraska⁠⁠⁠"

Check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠BestSelf Publications⁠⁠⁠⁠ to purchase books by incarcerated authors and help in supporting their rehabilitation.

Our ⁠⁠⁠⁠Website⁠

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
And he just showed me that he was committed to our life
outside of those walls, and that's what I was really trying
to bring in ethic. Welcome to More Than a Inmate's
Girlfriend. I'm your host, Jay, and this
week's episode is one of those episodes that you're going to

(00:22):
want to share with every female in your life.
And I mean it because there are very few times in our lives that
we find someone so insightful and so put together and has done
the work. Really, that's what it really
comes down to, has done the work.
And we can look at this couple who I'm going to tell you in a

(00:44):
second, they are active on social media and look at them
from the outside. And they are the sweetest,
cutest couple, like just wholesome people.
Like you can tell, you know? And you can tell a good person,
like they're just good people. They just care about humanity.
They want to contribute in the way that they can, and they want

(01:05):
to help as many people as possible.
And you can tell. And this man is Christopher
Willers. And this woman is April Willers.
And I was lucky enough to get tointerview April.
From the outside, they look likethis perfect couple that is just
sunshine and rainbows all the time.

(01:25):
But they went through it. And you can start by listening
to Chris's interview that I did a couple months ago.
In the first season. He talks about his side.
Now we get to look at April's side.
But April isn't only going to talk about incarcerated
relationships. I find everything that she says
is meaningful to anybody who's in a relationship, who's looking

(01:48):
for a relationship, who just gotbroken up, whatever, going
through a divorce. This is the episode because
she's so insightful and she's done the work and you can see it
in the couple that they are today, but they haven't always
been like that. And she walks us through what
happened and why she thinks thatthey got through and why she

(02:11):
thinks that their relationship flourished.
And there's a lot of foundationsinvolved and there's a lot more
to it for sure. And she goes through it.
So this is one of those episodes.
You want to listen to it, you want to send it to your friends,
you want to send it to your family.
You really want to send it to every woman in your life.
I'm telling you, every time I listen to it, which is a few
times already, I get something new out of it.

(02:35):
They are incredible. April is incredible.
When we recorded this, I think she had just found out she was
pregnant. Now, I just saw on Instagram
they posted pictures of the babyshower.
And I cannot be happier for thisfamily and after everything that
they've been through. So I'm going to keep it short at

(02:55):
that. I don't think there's any other
information I can relay other than listen closely to this
interview. As always, we appreciate your
support and love. You guys are amazing and if you
can follow the show, please hit that follow button.
If you're enjoying it, please hit our hit up our socials and

(03:18):
follow them Instagram at podcastunder score prison GF, Tiktok at
more than an inmate's GF. And that's pretty much it.
I'm going to let you go and enjoy this episode.
Oh, I can't wait for you guys tohear it.
Have fun. Bye.

(03:40):
Thank you, April, for coming on today.
Can you tell me before you even met him, where were you at in
your life, in your relationships?
When I met Christopher, it was 2017.
I was actually in the beginning stages of a home buying project.
I downsized my home to move it with my mom.

(04:00):
I wanted to make sure she was able to be in a space, take care
of her own bills because I knew I was going to save for a house.
So I was living on my mother's couch while I was saving for a
home, getting my credit togetherand just working.
I was single. And the day I actually spoke to
him on the phone, I was at work.I worked in hospitality and I
was in school at the time. So I was literally just focused

(04:24):
on building a family I didn't know for who because I just knew
I wanted to live better. So that's where I was in life.
So you weren't actively dating at the time or really looking,
you were really focusing on more.
Not at all. Was literally focused on myself
and that was the best space for me to be honestly.
I say he came out the blue. He literally came out the.

(04:45):
Blue And Had you ever dated anyone incarcerated before?
OK, so that question is a yes and a no.
Back when I was 19 years old, I got married, but he was actually
locked up from the age I was 20 to 21 1/2, almost going on 22
when he came home. So it was the one period in my

(05:07):
life that I was celibate. I was actually married and I
waited for somebody to come homefrom prison.
And we were already married before he went to prison.
And I just decided to rock it out.
But when he got home, it did notwork.
And I was young and I was like, look, I don't have to be stuck
with you. And 23 I was divorced and that
was the end of that. But my father is actually

(05:30):
currently in incarcerated and has been incarcerated for most
of my life, so I'm not new to incarcerated at all.
I've been visiting prisons ever since I was five years old.
Wow. Okay, so this wasn't like a new
journey for you at all. No, not at all.
Chris told us about how your friend hooked you guys up.
What was the story there? So I learned about Chris in

(05:54):
2016, a year before I actually spoke to him.
So in 2016, a close friend of mine got married to a man while
he was incarcerated, and she wasscared to tell me.
She didn't tell me until about two months after she was
married. And she was like, I have to tell
you something. I was like, OK, because I've
just been wondering, like, whereyou been at?

(06:14):
You've been going a lot of retreats and stuff.
Couples council, couples retreat.
And she was like, I got married and I was like, yeah,
congratulations. She was like, he's in prison.
I was like, OK, yeah, congratulations.
And she was just like, you don'thave no questions.
You don't have no reservation. And I was like, Nah, to each his
own. It's probably a lot of young men
in prison that are just as deserving.

(06:37):
I've always felt that way and had that that outlook.
So when she did it, she told me about Chris because he was
facilitating a lot of the groupsthat she was going inside the
prison. So I had heard about him, but
not in that way. I just heard about him because
he was working with her husband and they were doing a lot of
this work together on a nonprofit side.

(06:58):
So I didn't have any plans. And actually, she brought it up
once and I was like, Oh no, I don't do pen pals.
And that was the year before andthat was the end of that.
I was not planning on talking tothis man.
And were you involved in nonprofit work?
I was involved in nonprofit work, but I have been involved
just with my own personal businesses for a long time.

(07:20):
Born and raised in Detroit, I actually used to do music at a
very young age. So I was used to having a
management company at a young age, being an executive producer
at a young age. So it wasn't necessary.
The nonprofit side versus the business side, and my friends
and family, they've always got information for me when it came
to the business side of things because I've been so exposed to

(07:42):
a lot of different things and a lot of different culture.
It's very diverse in that way. People thought after me just for
advice. And so with the nonprofit, I
knew of some of the work he was doing.
Once we initially spoke, it was literally because of business.
He had wanted to pick my brain and I didn't mind.
OK, so that day, that phone call, the faithful day that you

(08:05):
guys finally met, what happened from your side?
From my side, yes. First of all, he said my name
life. I said, what is the name your
mother gave you? And that was the initial.
And he was like, OK, my name is Chris.
I'm like Chris. He like Christopher.
So I'm like, oh, OK, my name is April.
That was that thing. It was a little dancer back and

(08:26):
forth. But then I was asking him
questions like, OK, you single, How many kids you have?
And I know he was like, OK, is this the interview?
I'm supposed to be initially meeting you?
But that's just how. Well, I didn't mind a little
dancer back and forth and I likebeing on the phone and spending
that time. And I was just happy.
From my understanding in the background, I was literally
talking to my home girl. She was on three-way.

(08:47):
She was talking to Herman and hewas like, hey, yo life.
So I heard that in the background and I was like, OK,
what is this set up? So that's what kind of initially
made me jump out there. OK, who are you basically?
What do you want? And yeah, bye.
I'll talk to you later. But before I got off the phone,
I asked him, could I pray for him?
And that's always been part of the foundation of my face.

(09:08):
Even though I joke a lot and I have fun and everything, my
face, that's always kept me grounded.
So I just asked him, would it beOK to pray for him before the
end of the call? And that was, yeah, the first of
many. Did you feel anything after the
call? Were you like this guy's?
Interesting. Yeah, to a degree, because I
wasn't dating anybody. She was like, do you have a JPG

(09:29):
set up? This is my friend calling me out
here, her clicking keys in the background and she was like, I'm
like, what are you doing? I was like, first of all, I
already have a JPG, so you don'thave to worry about that.
I have that because of my father.
I was like, just give me his state information and I'll go
ahead and I send the e-mail. So we did start sending emails
back and forth. He was asking any questions

(09:50):
about things. I was telling him how I would
run different things, and eventually that led to a phone
call. Yeah.
And then it started from there. Did it go straight into a
relationship? No, not at all.
So at first, there was somethingthat happened with my niece and
I knew that I was gonna be away and I didn't want to abruptly
stop the emails. I haven't been incarcerated

(10:13):
myself, but I understand abrupt changes can change a person.
And I didn't want him to feel like I wasn't a woman of my
word. So I just told him instead of
emailing, I'm just going to giveyou my number and you can call
me because I don't know when I'mgoing to be back to a computer.
I don't even know when I'm coming back to work.
I have to take a leave of absence and handle some stuff
with my family. So he was like, what's going on?
So I just left the number and hereached out to me.

(10:36):
So that's how the phone conversation started.
Once the phone conversation and started and we started talking,
I don't even think it was every day at first.
I think it was more like every other day then every day.
And then he was like, I only deal with one female at a time.
And I'm like, OK, you the only person that I'm really talking
to. But I don't even see it as being

(10:57):
that deep. But OK, if you want to know
about exclusivity, that's a conversation we can have.
And he was like, yeah, because I'm trying to build
relationships and I'm like, I'm not.
I will be building a friendship with you first.
Yes, Sir. And we have to establish some
boundaries. And I learned that straight away
because as much as my husband has changed a whole lot.

(11:20):
But when I first met him, a lot of his responses were fueled by
the anger and raised inside of him.
Because when I met him, he did not know who he was.
And when I say he didn't know who he was, my husband was
adopted. So he didn't have the answer to
things. Or in his frustration, he would
throw out, I'm adopted so I wouldn't know when I'd be like,
OK, OK, so I would pray about it.

(11:42):
And I was like, Lord, first of all, this man is crazy.
Secondly, if he doesn't know whohe is, there's no way I can feel
that void in his heart. Because if he doesn't know who
he is and where he comes from, there's no way he's going to
know where he's going. And I'm unsure about being with
somebody that does not know who he is.
So it started as a prayer. Fast forward, there was a phone

(12:04):
call. Me and him were just joking.
It was early in the morning because at this point boundaries
have been established and we aregoing to be the best of friends.
So we were really building our friendship.
And I was like, do you remember anything from your birth
certificate or anything that your mom made to share with you
about your birth parents? And so he gave me a last name

(12:25):
that search literally from that phone call.
I think that first phone call was probably 8:30 or 9:00 in the
morning. That's when he used to call me
before I went to work. By 9:00 that night, I had found
his birth mother. So it literally didn't even take
me a whole 24 hours. And I was able to tell him by
that morning call. So that was a big deal.

(12:47):
And that's what kind of a spark our relationship being even
closer than it was before because a prayer had been
answered. I felt like he could start
healing. And that was another part of his
journey that he did not know is undiscovered.
And secondly, that void that I wanted to be filled for him, to
know who he was. I felt like that could finally
be filled for him as a man, and that was very important to me.

(13:10):
So as we were taking these type of steps, it brought us closer
together. It secured our bond.
And that was one of the first things that we did together,
that brought us closer together.He was able to find his family
history and that was a big deal.I love how you talk about how he
needed to heal before he could even get into something.
Yeah, you seem so confident and sure and love that you were at

(13:34):
this really safe place for yourself when you were meeting
him. You stopped any kind of
codependency or anything like that.
You were like, no, I don't want to get into this.
Yeah, because I was by myself atthat time in my life.
And I feel like as women, a lot of times we don't get that
chance to really just be by yourself.
Like when I moved in with my mother, I knew I was not going

(13:56):
to have company. I knew I was not going out on
dates. I knew I had a very strict
financial schedule, so I had to be disciplined.
I was trying to buy a home, so it was literally the perfect
setup for him to enter my life while I was literally focused on
something for the future, not knowing that he would be a part
of that future. But at the same time, I knew

(14:17):
that if it did not work out, I would still be OK and I had to
be secure. Knowing that April was going to
be OK regardless if Chris was ornot.
I was not sure if he was going to be the man that I was going
to spend the rest of my my life with.
Like, for instance, when I foundhis parents, I knew that I was
assigned to him for that. I knew he was a part of my
assignment in life. Did I know it was going to go

(14:39):
any further than him finding hisfirst parents?
I did not. But I took it step by step, day
by day, and we were able to really build a very strong,
solid friendship off of that. And that's what makes our
relationship even that much stronger eight years later.
Yeah, I did this similar thing to you just before I met my
husband. I was very single for two years,

(15:01):
very single. I'm like, I'm not interested in
any kind of relationship that I see anyone else has right now,
and I need to make sure I'm whole before I even experiment.
Yeah. Yes, cold and healed.
So what was your experience likewhile he was incarcerated and
you guys developed into that relationship?
Was it strong? Was it wrong?

(15:21):
What was that like? I wouldn't say it was rocky.
Once we got to pass the initial meeting, my then boyfriend
husband now tried to cancel and not speak to me for two weeks,
breaking off the relationship when I was supposed to meet him
for the first time and it was over the Thanksgiving break so
that I could spend a whole weekend and visit him.
Two different visits, 2 separatedays.

(15:43):
But I had already made the plan to spend Thanksgiving with his
mother, actually, and her husband.
God bless the soul. He's deceased now.
But she invited me to come to Virginia and stay with her.
So that would have been my firsttime meeting her.
And we were developing our own relationship outside of him.
So two weeks before I was supposed to come, I don't

(16:03):
remember what it was, but he wasjust like, no, I'm calling it
off, I'm ending it. I was like, yeah, right.
So we didn't speak for two weeks.
And right before I think I sent him an e-mail like, Bill going
at your mom's house, he was like, oh, if you come to visit,
I'm not going to see you. And I was like, OK, we'll see.
So that's what it was. And then I went to visit and he

(16:24):
came right up. What?
And he kissed me. And that's what it was.
And I was like, OK, I see what this is going to be like.
I felt like he was at a place inhis life where he needed touch.
And it feel like that to this day.
If I want to call him Chris, I literally can just touch, you
know what I mean? And being confined for so long,

(16:44):
not having a one is touched, notknowing how to really
communicate with a female like that from being in that harsh
environment. I just felt like he needed a
soft touch and he really just needed some love.
Regardless if he rejected the love or not.
I was not going to let everything that we had
accomplished in our friendship be ruined because he having a
moment. No, that's not how this works.

(17:05):
Yeah, I went and he came out even though he said he wasn't.
And then I said we kissed again at the end of the visit.
And then like saying back and everything was back to normal.
But that was the extent of it. And us being long distance, me
being in Atlanta, him being in Virginia, that part made it
really tricky. But I also scheduled the visit

(17:27):
accordingly. It would be like every three
months. And for me, that was the hardest
part because I knew in those angry moments that he used to
have, if he just had a touch forme, literally, I know I could
call on whatever was inside of him.
And that's literally how I was like, I was just holding his
hand a whole visit. He was quiet.
Yeah. Nothing to say, nothing smart to

(17:49):
say, nothing angry. And I'm just like, okay, this is
like a lion that just needs to be changed.
Literally, he just needs a touchand they don't have that.
And I realized that very early on and I just was not going to
let him ruin the best thing thathappened to him because of his
temperament. I had a lot of experience with
having a bad temper growing up. And that was one of the things

(18:10):
that I was actually working on before I met him was my temper
and my responses. So I saw a lot of myself and him
too. He is so lucky that you
recognize that, because I don't know that I would have shown up
if I was you for real. Man, my flight had been booked.
Everything had already been paidfor.

(18:31):
No, I was still going to have dinner.
And for me I was just like, yeah, whatever, you're tripping,
I'm not coming here. I didn't already did this.
I just took that time off. Oh, you gonna show up and it
happened. And then after that is I didn't
hear nothing else. Everything, everything.
I have heard nothing. He have not wanted to leave my
side. Everything.

(18:51):
Literally. Because I showed up.
So sometimes it's like that. Sometimes it's giving faith.
Huge, huge. How did your family and friends
react to this? Oh, once I told my mom about him
initially and she gave me a negative response.
I decided I didn't want to tell anybody in my family and a very
handful of friends, She responded how did your father

(19:12):
got less time for UN alive than somebody?
So how did he get all this time just for allegedly being a
getaway driver? So she couldn't understand that
I could understand it because it's a state to state type of
thing. But with that response, I was
just like, Oh no, but I understood it at the same time,
I respected it. I've been in this situation

(19:33):
going to visit my father since Iwas 5.
Then at 19, I went through it again with somebody getting
married young. So for me, I think at that age I
was like 36 and she was just like, listen, you single and you
bout to buy a house and you doing what?
Girl, you crazy. So I understood it.
That's my mom. But I still felt, again, it was

(19:54):
my assignment. But after I got that initial
reaction from her, I kept it to myself.
It was something that I did in secret.
I definitely tried to do it in secret.
But of course, when you're getting a collect call and you
got to go through all the prompts and you got to step away
for a second in order to hear a voice, people are looking at you
like, oh, you talking to your man, Why you got to do all, you

(20:15):
know what I mean? You can put 2:00 to 2:00.
Together, try to keep it under wraps as much as I could, but it
wasn't like I would deny him. I would never deny him.
And then those that were. Know about him the whole time?
Yeah, the whole time. Yeah, I'm in the same boat right
now. Actually.
I'm a manager. So whenever employees in and
then if he calls and you have towait right till you can press 5

(20:36):
and I'm like answering the phoneand then pausing and they're
like, what are you? Doing and then you're trying to
fumble around, Yeah. Lower the ball of you it was.
The same thing for me. I was a night auditor and I'm
switching shifts and he's calling and I'm trying to hurry
up and log in early and when my phone ringing, you got to get
that phone and. It was, yeah, it was a time.
It's. Part of the reason why me and AJ

(20:57):
started this was because we feltlonely because we weren't really
sharing it a lot of our experiences with our loved ones
because we got a lot of negativejust like you got from your
family. Did you feel lonely?
Yeah, I felt lonely because I knew that I was going into a
space where it was just unknown territory.

(21:17):
But there were so many great things that are happening along
the way that I just knew that itwas something that I should be
doing because my relationship with Chris was not taking away
from me in any type of way. The only thing that I did was
put money on the phone. The very first time I put money
on his book, he said don't do that again.

(21:38):
And we established very strict. He said, April, if you want to
help me with a secure pack quarterly.
And he was like I got a couple of things that you can get on
that quarterly if you just want to bless me.
But outside of that, I don't want you sending me any money.
And he was like, he put money onthe phone and that was fine.
And even with that, we had a very strict schedule of when we

(21:58):
could call and when not to call.I felt like accommodating in
that way because knowing that I was the person who was going to
have to do that with the finances.
And he knew I was trying to purchase a home.
And I told him, I can't explain this on the bank statement.
I'm literally trying to buy my first home.
So he understood that he worked with me and for me, for him to
be a man and tell me, hey, don'tput no money on my book.

(22:20):
I was like, wow, I was just trying.
I'm trying to help. He was like, no, I'm a man.
I'll get a job. I'll take care of myself.
I got a job. Even if he was making $0.32 an
hour, even if he was thinking $0.27 an hour, and that's what
we encourage as he was stepping down.
That's one of those things whereI'm just so happy that we
communicated everything at that time and it did not take away
from me in that way. The loneliness as far as being

(22:44):
in different states, that was something because we were so
unsure. We didn't know how things were
going to end. We thought he was going to get a
conditional pardon. The pardon fell through.
Then he has to ask me like, hey,are you going to be willing to
wait? Because at this point we're
already in a full blown relationship.
And I was like, yeah, of course I'll wait.
I'm like, how long you guys? OK, we good.

(23:05):
So it was all about communication and just literally
every conversation that we were having making it count, trying
to not have those blow up conversations where we're both
met and we waste the money on the phone.
I hated that because I'm like, we do not have money to waste.
For me, as long as because we were doing our best to stay on
the right path. Him being not there physically,

(23:27):
I felt was harder for him than it was for me.
I was OK because I was literallyin school working and trying to
build a home. I had a plan, so I had something
to focus on. So I was telling him in his
lonely time, look, I need you togo to the library.
I need you to try to get an article on this.
I need you to try to get a book on this.
I needed you to look into mutualfunds.

(23:48):
I need you to look into investment stocks.
I need you to look at the Bitcoin.
So there were things that I was giving him to feed his brain and
he would run with it and it shows today.
Yeah, for real. So the idea of marriage, how did
that come up? Chris say he knew I was his wife
from initial phone call when I asked him about his name.

(24:09):
Me. I've always been open to the
unexpected. Being married to him and having
that thought. It's not that it didn't cross my
mind versus making sure it's notrush.
So that's why I think setting upthe initial boundaries of
friendship was so important to me because I did not want him
thinking it's OK to just be in afull blown relationship and then

(24:31):
you're going to get out and we're not going to have nothing.
No, there are things that we need.
So I actually gave him a list offive things that I wanted him to
complete before we were married.And I wish I could remember all
this. I know the last thing on the
list is that we had counseling and we completed the counseling

(24:51):
part together right before we got married from our officiator.
That was something. And I think he had me ask the
officiator if we could have a couple of minutes for them
because he brought his wife and they counseled us even if it was
just 5 minutes. So they did that and that was
the completion of that list. But yeah, I asked him to ask my
father's hand in marriage, ask his mom and my father, and my

(25:13):
father was incarcerated. So that happened.
There was some classes. He went and got his barber's
life. So I had wanted him to complete
a trade to show me how, and he completed his barber's license
for me. And that was a big deal because
even though he had no interest in barbering, he knew that I was
in the cosmetology field and eventually one of the.
School. And he said I'll get you a

(25:34):
school. And I was like, I need you to
get that license, especially if you can get it behind bars for
free. You know, I was like, you need
to get that. So as soon as he told me about
it, he was in the inaugural class for the camp that he was
in. And he was one of the five that
took state board out of that inaugural class, and he
completed that. That was a really big deal.

(25:54):
He gave me his word. Even though he fought tooth and
nail their days. He wanted to drop off.
And I was like, no, Nope, you said.
And he did. He completed it.
He was showing you how serious he was about this.
Yep. He was committed.
He was committed and that's the kind of things we did.
I wanted to see that he was committed.
He made the commitment to learn about the financial literacy

(26:15):
portion of our lives, although Iknew that I was probably more
averse in it. I wanted him to take time to
learn some of the things that I did not know.
And that's why I mentioned like the cryptocurrency and just
different outlets that I wanted him to be more familiar with.
And he did his research and kindof did his homework and we will
come back, compare notes. And he just showed me that he
was committed to our life outside of those walls.

(26:39):
And that's what I was really trying to bring in essence,
like, hey, you're there, but guess what, you're coming out of
there. So I need you to step down, so
to speak, and just step away from that baby.
Step it little by little all theway up until that last year
where I told him once a month, give something away.
You're not going back. Give it away and give it away.

(27:00):
Don't sell it. Give it away.
Give it away. So there were certain principles
and morals and standards that I just wanted to make sure we were
on one accord. So when he did ask me to be his
wife, yeah, I said, of course, yeah, I didn't care.
And I was happy to be his wife. And I'm glad we had to do it
that way because that was the only way for him to get to

(27:20):
Georgia. And we didn't know that.
And he said that he would ratherstart a new life in Georgia
because of the charges and everything were in the state of
Virginia. So it would be a fresh start for
him. I end up buying that house
eventually. I was in the house for about 6
or seven months before he actually came home.
But I was making that house a home.
So he had been through everything with me from the

(27:42):
first home that I thought I was going to get to not getting and
him learning all about the financial part of that.
So every set back that I was going through, he was
experiencing that with me. When I was going for
inspections, when I was doing walkthroughs, I was on the phone
with him telling him this room looks like this and the front of
the home looks like this. And I was making sure he was
very involved in my day-to-day. I wasn't shunning him from

(28:06):
anything. I wanted him to know there is
life outside of those walls. And I tried to remove the those
barricades walls as much as I could in conversation with him
outside of that. As a woman, I have certain
feelings about my wedding in theprison visitation room.
Did you have any feelings about getting married inside while he

(28:30):
was still incarcerated? You know what, I don't think it
was so much about inside as far as the experience.
Getting married to him behind bars didn't bother me as much as
the experiences of actually going through.
And when I say that, it's for certain things.
The dress that I wore, I had a short sleeved crop top to cover
the shoulders of the dress and it was a little too short.

(28:52):
They almost did not let me come in.
So that was a big deal for me. The disposable camera that I
bought, the lady who was taking the pictures, I pushed the
button on the camera for the first one, so it did flash, but
she did not press the button forall the other ones.
So we literally had one good photo and then the rest of them
came out very dark. It was just moments like that.

(29:13):
I wish I could have got back thedrive by myself.
I remember stopping by a Dollar General on the way home.
A lot of those towns only have dollar generals.
Somebody was like, oh, you look very nice, not like you're a
beautiful bride, you know what Imean?
She wouldn't know. I just got married because I
didn't go in an actual wedding dress.
But there was that long drive home and not having that

(29:35):
honeymoon, moments like that andthen traveling.
And now I'm going to a differentstate.
And, you know, I literally go back to work the next Monday
because we got married on Labor Day weekend.
And I go to work and I'm like, my name's changed.
I just got married. And they're like, OK, where's
your husband? So it would be awkward moments
like that, you know, like you didn't invite us to the wedding.

(29:56):
You got married. And I'm like, no, I got married
out of state. You know what I mean?
So it's different things. I couldn't answer.
And at that time I had become a teacher, so I got a gang of
students and my students very excited.
They're like, Oh, my God, your name is what?
It's not like my man has ever come to work.
It's not like anybody has ever seen him.
He's never picking me up. We've never gone out of lunch.

(30:17):
So there's just certain key components that make it awkward
for people to, like, really believe you like, especially
when you're out of state, too. So it was those type of moments
surrounding the details of, oh, you're married.
Of course I had to face my biggest challenge to my mom and
saying yeah, I'm going to marry him and yeah, I'll be back.

(30:37):
You know what I mean? But I didn't care.
I was going to do regardless. I followed my heart, I felt and
I followed my spirit. I feel like we had an excellent
foundation. I had been building Chris's
credit while he was there on theinstant, so there was different
key components. He was in the Air Force.
That was a plus for us. So I feel like I already had

(30:58):
certain benefits of being his wife without him even physically
being there. I knew that it was beneficial in
that it would pay off in the long run.
It was just up to me to kind of lay that foundational work and
I'm so glad that I did because my husband just retired me.
It just goes to show that if it's about purpose, and This is
why I always tell people our relationship was built on

(31:20):
purpose. It wasn't like it was just a pen
pal thing. No, it was literally built on
purpose. Our relationship was meaningful.
We both made sacrifices. He couldn't fit.
Hey, I don't want to go to Barber school.
I don't care about being no Barber, that's your thing.
But it was a sacrifice. He still made it.
He didn't do anything with the license besides helping me going
to school. So he cut a couple heads here

(31:42):
and there, but overall he did that to add to my part of the
legacy and we're dream team because of it.
Yeah, I just want to confirm andI feel like I already know the
answer, but was there any hesitation to you marrying him?
No, none. Of course, there's always a
thought, what if he comes home and this is that in the third.

(32:03):
But to be honest, I feel like atthe end of the day, the worst
thing he's going to do is leave me and go back to Virginia.
I'm still OK because the home that I initially bought, even
though I bought it for us, remember, it's still in my name.
It was something that I could afford.
I didn't go beyond my means. I didn't invest too much that I
felt like that. I couldn't recover because I

(32:24):
only invested in the phone and Ionly invested in secure pack.
So I don't feel like the time was wasted because everything
that I was doing, it was edifying my spirit as well.
It did not take away from me. The relationship with him never
took away from me. It only added and when you're
dating somebody out here in the real world, you're spending
money on them. You're doing all kind of stuff.

(32:45):
You're spending gas money to go back and forth like you're still
spending money. So the money part of it, me
investing on the phone and we'rehaving communication, we're
having conversations. We're no sex before marriage.
Yeah. There were so many great key
components that made it edifyingthat the scary thoughts didn't
mean anything, that if it all failed, he would go back to

(33:07):
Virginia and I would still be inGeorgia.
Oh, I didn't feel like that. It was like, as much as you
wanted the relationship to work and you thought it was going to
work, you were still smart aboutit.
You were still smart about your decision.
I tried my best to cross all my fees and dot my eyes because we
talked about that if it weren't for going to work, we both
didn't have any children and we would walk away.

(33:28):
Chris even still had a barber's license, for God's sake, if he
just wanted to go back to VA. And if he had to stay with his
mom, his mom was still there at the time.
So we were both feel good eitherway if it weren't to work out.
So, yeah. And it was a mutual decision.
So I think we were both part about it in that.
Way yeah. Leading up to his release, what

(33:49):
were you thinking? Were you thinking it was going
to be all sunshine and rainbows?Yeah, boy was I wrong.
I. Thought.
It was going to be sunshine and rainbows.
I thought I was going to be ableto put this thing on him and we
just going to ride off into the sunset.
But no, like we got pulled over by the police on our way back to
Georgia. So that was a thing.

(34:11):
Chris had to learn how to drive.That was a thing.
Him want to just get out and have a job immediately.
Even though he did, I think we were home on a Thursday.
He had an interview on Monday one day.
He started working the next Tuesday.
So things were so lined up for Chris that we were able to get
down here and really go. But at the same time, that

(34:32):
adjustment period, that first two years, I will tell anybody,
it's not for the fainting heart because he had a lot of
readjustment issues. He was going to therapy.
We found out he was bipolar. We found out he had PTSD.
It was a lot. Then he got to meet his
biological mom. So there were some things there
in the bloodline that we didn't know about.

(34:52):
It was a whole new learning experience.
He came home to a home for mortgage and he came home with
over $1000. As soon as we got back the
electrical panel, something was wrong with it.
And the first bill was like $800gone out of his thousand.
So he was really like, Oh my God, I got to get to work ASAP.

(35:12):
So, you know, he was so anxious to live life and do everything
and to help everybody and make yourself available.
He burnt himself out so quick. And then the pandemic happened.
We went from riding the wave, literally.
He got out January 13th, 2020. We was on lockdown by March.
So it was a lot going on in those first initial weeks where

(35:34):
we didn't know we was leaving. Go live.
There's a lot going on. Then he had just got a job, job
would benefit. He got laid off after being
there for one week. So he was so crushed, so
disappointed. It's the middle of the pandemic.
They're talking about essential jobs.
He like, I'm no essential worker.
I get laid off, I'm good. I got employment benefits.

(35:54):
So I'm a stay at home wife. But he's going crazy.
But I'm happy that I was able tobe there for him because I
didn't have to work. So I could literally be more
hands on with. And like I said, that touch is
so relevant. Being able to have that love,
that support system with you as soon as you need it, still being
able to answer that phone on thedrop of a dime.
Things like cars, his tire will blow out.

(36:16):
I remember on the freeway he wasgoing ballistic and I was like,
babe, these things happen. They're going to be everyday
things that occur that are out of your control.
He did not understand that. And I'm like, yes, you have to
be able to bounce back without being angry.
That was a whole adjustment period within itself.
Things going wrong, not being able to use the Internet,
scamming. He was getting scammed on his

(36:38):
phone when you first turn on a new phone line and you got
scammers calling. He don't know what's a scam and
what's not. So then I have to monitor 2
phones. I got to monitor the calls that
he's making to me and I got to monitor his phone and make sure
he's not getting scammed just because he's trying to get a
job. Yeah, it was a heck of
adjustment period. Plus COVID.
Leading up to him getting out, did he start changing?

(37:01):
Oh yeah, oh, that last year was hell.
His anxiety was up so high and that's why I would give him
pass. Chris is a list guy and once I
learned that about him, I would keep him busy if I could keep
his mind occupied. For the most.
Part he would be pretty settled so I had to keep him with things
to do because he was so anxious.His mind was going everywhere

(37:24):
because of the relief. So that's why I said, hey babe,
once we got down to a year, we're going to talk one time in
the morning, every time at night.
That's it. If you just have to call me in
between because he's emergency, just send me an e-mail, let me
know. So we try to stick to that and
that's what we stuck to. But again, giving him the task,
hey, give away one thing. Start thinking about the website

(37:47):
that you want to work on. We have worked on a T-shirt
business for I think 2 years before he started coming home.
So I was like, what do you want that website to turn into?
What are some of the things thatyou think that you want to do on
the side? What are some of the things?
Where are some of the places that you feel like you would
want to go? So I just had him thinking more
of what are you going to do as soon as you get home?

(38:07):
What are you going to do day one?
What do you want to eat? These are real questions that we
need answers to. You're going to go to the DMV so
you're going to have your license.
When are you going to learn how to drive?
So these are the type of questions that we were trying to
build around and really trying to come up with a solid plan.
The actual day of his release. Do you remember it?

(38:29):
Of course, I didn't sleep the night before.
After sleep, his cousin was the driver, his mom came, his uncle
came. Man, I felt really out of place
that day. I'm going to be honest because
it was the whole family. And like I was sitting in the
back seat. I couldn't even sit next to my
husband. But that was only in respect for
his mom. And of course at this point, I'm

(38:50):
his wife, just married the man in the visitation room.
I want to sit next to my husband.
I want to be on top of my husband.
We didn't even get any alone time into that night.
I had already had a room reserved for even though we were
around family, but it was the anticipation and hey, I'm about
to get a real honeymoon. Hey, my husband's coming home.
I had to be very patient you back first day and that was

(39:11):
something that I had not anticipated.
And then on top of no sleep, right.
I was just like, what is it justgonna be my time?
And I was trying not to be Aggiebecause I would feel happy.
But at the same time it was justlike I just can't wait till we
get to Georgia. But I knew he needed at that
time was mine. Didn't want to be selfish.
But in my heart I still felt man.
I'm his wife. But I became his wife soon

(39:33):
enough. But he was all mine very soon
enough. And I couldn't give him back
after that. Yeah.
It was just one of those things.It was a given.
So you talk about all the crazy things that happened after his
release. What point were you?
Like this is really not going toplan.
I don't feel like it was ever not going to plan.
I feel like it was more I didn'tknow what I signed up.

(39:55):
I remember him being behind barsand we would have an argument.
He'd be like, that's what you signed up for.
I'm like, I know I signed up forthis.
I did not read the fine print and it was not visible.
So that was like my whole thing.I did not know that the
adjustment period was going to be so hard.
Obviously nobody knew about COVID, so that just added to the

(40:17):
mix. But as far as the things and the
issues with his mind, some otherthings happened he had.
He just met his biological family.
He had a brother at that time. His brother, unfortunately
committed suicide right before he was about to speak to Chris
for the very first time. So it was a lot of other
devastating moments that happened around that.
So just my period and being there for him as much as I

(40:40):
could, but not understanding themental health aspect of all the
decisions were going on. I did not understand the mental
health help that was really needed that only a therapist
could provide or only us going to counseling could really help
me to understand what was going on with him.
So until we actually saw a therapist, I'll just was like,

(41:01):
OK, this man crazy, you know what I mean?
But I'm a deal with this crazy man because he know, I mean, but
I needed outside help and support.
And that outside help and support came from therapy.
It came from workshop, it came from us talking about it on the
podcast. It came from us reading more
materials about it. And that helped a great deal.

(41:23):
Once we started getting the mental health support and we
recognized that he needed mentalhealth support, that's when
things started to take a turn better.
But I just, I didn't know what to expect.
And then remember, it's the whole world at this point.
I didn't develop anxiety. I had never had anxiety in my
life. But a lot of that, it wasn't
just because of his adjustment. A lot of that was because of
COVID, too. So it was the whole world was

(41:45):
being reset while this man was being reset.
That was crazy to me more than anything.
Yeah. Was it that you're communicating
changed before he came out? It sounds like you had really
good communication and we're able to work through any issues
that you had. Was that the struggle?
How did you recognize that it was mental health and how did
you get there? I just felt like there was just

(42:07):
some parts of him that I just could not get him to work past
because of his lack of life experience and I wasn't able to
necessarily answer the questionsor give him the advice needed.
Only a mentor could or a peer mentor or a man could because
I'm just a woman. I felt like, and he's a man

(42:27):
who's been through these harsh environments, things are a lot
harder for him. So I just felt like it, it was
going to take more than just me in order to make something like
that happen. But once I was exhausted, I feel
like as far as anything that I could provide, if that's when it
was time, going to church and things like that.
We do face face things, but at the same time, going outside

(42:50):
that wheelhouse, going to counseling, going a couple
counseling, that's when we were like, OK, wait a minute, let's
do individual counseling and let's do couples.
So me going to individual counseling that answered some
things that I needed as far as myself and how I could be a
better support system. But with him who going to
individual, it identified exactly what was wrong with him.

(43:11):
So taking those steps when things did get worse, I felt was
able to turn the situation around for the better because it
LED us straight to counseling. Leading us to counseling was
like, oh, that's what it is. Let's identify.
Let's see what we can do, OK? Now we know how to go about it.
Now we know how to treat it. Now we know what's going on.
Before you got to that counseling as his wife, did you

(43:33):
feel like you were failing? Did you feel that it was on you?
Yeah. I felt like how come he just
doesn't understand? I felt like what I was in a
teacher even though he's not my student.
I just feel like I can get through to almost anybody, but
sometimes I feel like I just couldn't get through to him and
not being able to get do to him.I felt, yeah, I felt like I was

(43:55):
feeling like maybe it's something I'm saying wrong or
maybe it I'm not doing it the right way.
But it wasn't any of that, you know what I mean?
He just interpret things differently.
He's a different person. So I had to not put that type of
pressure on myself. I had to learn how to get
support outside the box. Hey, April is not you.
You know what I mean? Even though he would say that

(44:15):
it's not. I just felt like I should be
able to be the Band-Aid to just go right over whatever it was.
I'm his wife. I'm supposed to be the person
that fix it. But I think that also comes from
some of the trauma that I had been through.
Remember, I come from a background that's pretty rough
too. I come from a background where
father's in prison too. So it's just different realities

(44:37):
all coming together. And I'm like, look, at this age,
we should not be going through this.
But yes, because mentally he wasstill in a different space.
I asked Chris one time. I was like, what age do you feel
like? Give me a age.
He was like 26 sometime. I still feel like I'm on my 20s,
but when I first came home, I did feel like I was 19.
This is like 2 years into it or a year and a half into it, and

(44:58):
I'm like, I should have asked this day one.
It was because of the lack of life experience.
Yeah. Did you ever think I made a
mistake? I never thought I made a
mistake. But I thought.
Is he going to be strong enough to get through this with me?
Is he going to be able to survive and get past his mental
thoughts when he's thinking negatively?

(45:20):
I think that was more of the thought, will we be able to get
through this together because ofwhere he is and where I am as
far as our development? Because like I said, he got
locked up 19. We came out, We're in two
different phases in life, my life experience.
Is he going to just want to say,you know what, forget this, I

(45:41):
give up. This is too much.
I got bills, I got this. I can just go back and live on
Easy Street and I can go back to26 per SE, even though I know
he's 36. So I had that in my mind.
Oh my gosh, what if he gives up on us?
I never thought it would be me, but I did have the thought like,

(46:01):
what if this is too hard for him?
What if he decides this is too much responsibility?
I haven't had a chance to live and for me, I would be ready to
accept that if that was his choice.
I was willing to take that as a consequence.
I love therapy. I think it's great.
I think everybody, Alyssa shouldtouch into it at some point just
to double. Check.

(46:21):
Absolutely. How did you guys get to that
point? Did you have a history of
knowing people went to therapy or did you go to therapy?
We need to go to therapy like this is the answer.
Yeah, it's something that we hadtalked about while he was
inside. I know for me, per SE, I tried
to go to therapy every so many years.
I needed like a therapy reset. I think that was again one of

(46:45):
those requirements that I gave off when I said we need to do
counseling together. I knew that we needed a outside
year, outside support, somebody else that may have a little bit
more wisdom than we had. And he's never been opposed to
that. I've never been opposed to that.
I knew it was something that we can navigate through together,
at least that part of it. Other than the counseling, did

(47:06):
you have any support systems in place or did you have people
that you were talking to while you were going through this?
Yeah, so the same friend of minethat hooked us up, as soon as
her husband came home, they started going through it and it
was rougher than us. And their relationship ended up
and they end up getting a divorce.

(47:27):
Being that it was like, OK, I know we're different, but at the
same time it's like we started the same way.
So that was always like, OK, howdo we know it's going to work
out for the better? And you got people like that.
But then we also had examples inour life, couples that were
doing fine, but they had alreadybeen together before I met Chris

(47:48):
while he was locked up. So it was different.
Besides somebody who was alreadymarried and then they're
significant went in and they were waiting for them when they
came home. So it was a little bit
different. We didn't have too many
statistics that show us how to be like what we wanted to be.
So we knew that we were doing something a little bit
different, seeing as though we met while he was behind bars and

(48:08):
we didn't know each other beforehe went in.
So that part of the story was new to us and we have to only
really rely on ourselves. We didn't really have too much
of A support system. I know I didn't really lean on
anybody because I didn't trust anybody with my heart.
And I feel like he was my heart and I just know I really made
the decision early on to only bearound people that are going.

(48:29):
To love us. And if they didn't think that
this idea of love was ideal, I didn't want them a part of our
story anyway. I had went as far as telling my
family members that once I get married, just know, don't ask me
for, you know, try to depend on me for anything because I was
always that person. I always made myself available
for my family and for me. Getting married to him was kind

(48:51):
of like a safety blanket for me.You utilize it as a shield
because I had been getting takenadvantage of because I didn't
have a love entry. I didn't want to rely on anybody
else. Yeah, I didn't even look outside
the box. It wasn't a therapeutic or
somebody that can really help orgive us advice and marriage.
I wasn't interested. Do you remember feeling like you
finally are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel and that

(49:14):
you guys were moving to the place?
Yeah, it's been so many milestones within it all.
Sometimes tragedy and trauma canbring you together.
Chris was the first man to get me pregnant.
My first time getting pregnant was at 38 years old.
So when we experienced loss together, it brought us
together. It was severe because I also
feel like it could have broke usbecause it went the other way.

(49:36):
Because in my mind, I was like, you have the chance to live your
life. The man normally have a chance
to have a baby more so than a woman.
So I'm like, if it's a problem with me, maybe you should go
find somebody else. And he just said no.
He was like, I'm going to stick it out with you regardless.
Of course, that made me love on him more.
Of course, I never wanted him toleave me.
But at the same time, they say you love him enough to let him
go. You want them to be happy.

(49:57):
You want them to experience certain things in life that they
never got to, especially being away for so long.
So that's how much I loved him. So I feel like certain tragedies
have brought us closer together.But of course, milestone, him
helping me with the school work when I said I had a plan and I
came to him, him working for thefirst two years, years after the
pandemic, was able to secure a second mortgage or that home

(50:21):
equity loan in order to put the down payment down for the
school. I might have laid the
groundwork, but guess what? Now my husband's name is on the
mortgage. So you never know how life is
going to work like that. And then him believing in me
enough and taking that chance, that was a whole roller coaster
within itself. Building a business together,
brick and mortar. Nobody and our family had done

(50:41):
that. Either one of us had ever done
that before. Crazy.
You know what I mean? Taking these big leaps of faith
out there, jumping into unfamiliar territory, the both
of us, man, that was that's epic.
And you only have each other, right?
You only have each other. That is the only team you have.
You may have people that may say, hey, I want to help.

(51:02):
Hey. And then we saw a lot of people
didn't want to help, and they eventually faded out and it was
still up at the end of the day holding the bag.
So yeah, you go through these experiences and they build you
for the better. Having that amount of trust like
that is. Yes.
Wow, that's a lot. Yeah.
I'm a huge believer of everything happens for a reason

(51:22):
and we're on this journey on purpose and we have to go
through these things. But is there anything that you
wish you would have done differently?
No, not at all. Not one thing.
I'm going to be honest, not one thing.
I just don't feel like it would have made me into the person
that I am today. I don't feel like I would be
able to accept some of the challenges that come my way if
we hadn't been through certain things in our life.

(51:45):
I'm just extremely grateful for the journey as a whole.
I actually was talking about this the other day.
It's the journey. The journey is what makes you.
We got stories for days for our kids.
We've been through a lot and ourfamily is stronger as a result
of it. Fast forward, I got my wedding,
we had a five year renewal. We've been able to accomplish a
lot together. And once you're able to get past

(52:07):
certain things and you hit thesemilestones and it was nobody but
y'all. And God, it's just y'all just
locked in and you've never had somebody to have your back like
that. You bet.
It just all was just purposeful.And that has been the whole
journey. It's all been purposeful.
It's all been built on purpose. All the people that we've
helped, the hundreds of thousands of people at this

(52:27):
point that we've been able to help just because we made the
decision to stay together, because we made the decision to
lock in and learn from one another, because we made the
decision to be humble and take chances and take these risks.
We've risked everything, but we've been through a whole hell
of a lot. But the blessings have still
been so abundant that it doesn'teven matter what hell you've
been through as a result of it because we were obedient to each

(52:50):
other, meaning we sacrificed andwe didn't give up on each other
and we chose each other every day.
And the benefits of that is justamazing.
And we're still living through those benefits even now, still
in the midst of things, still going through things.
And we have a big blessing on the way because of it.
So I'm just grateful to be able to experience all of it.
And I wouldn't trade nothing, not a day, not a dollar,

(53:12):
nothing. Because it's a part of the
journey. Yeah, you're making me emotional
listening to you. I'm like, oh man, is there any
advice? And you've already?
Me too, yeah. You've given so much advice in
this whole interview process, but is there anything, any other
kind of advice that you would give women who or men whose

(53:32):
loved ones are coming out soon? Yeah, you have to have patience.
That's the first thing. Number one, you got to have
patience. You got to have patience for
that loved one, especially for the one that is coming home.
It is going to be a learning experience.
Depending upon how long they have been incarcerated, the more
work that may have to be done ifthey've been gone for extended
period of time. Technology is a big factor.

(53:53):
There may be a learning, can they read and write, really
getting down to the basics, really utilizing that time.
While there may be still a way using that time on the phone as
a means of communication and actually utilizing it for
communication purposes to learn one another, to find out what is
going to make the other person sick and what's not getting
through those hard moments. If you can get through those

(54:14):
hard moments over the phone, I feel like it should be easier
when you come out, but at the same time talking about every
single topic that you can think of that you might I want to know
in the future. Like we talked about everything.
Leave no stone unturned from bedroom talk.
People want to have dirty, nastytalk to financial talk.
Everything needs to be discussed.

(54:35):
You want to know your partner intimately and it's the only
intimate way. To me, I feel like it's really
getting inside their brain so that you can really get to know
that person. Find out what's on that person's
heart, what makes that person angry, what makes that person
happy. These are all the things that
needs to be talked about. You can only learn so much about
a person with that means of communication, but it's also a

(54:57):
really great teaching tool. Asking one another what is it
that we both need to know about each other?
Really making the most of that time because once they get home,
you're going to really find it out, really going to know.
And the last thing I would say is just making sure that it all
aligns with purpose. In the beginning of our
relationship, everything was built on friendship and that was

(55:18):
something that I really stressed.
I wanted to marry my best friend.
I wanted to be with my best friend.
I wanted Chris to be my best friend.
If I knew that Chris could be mybest friend, that I knew that he
could be a perfect husband for me, if he hadn't became my best
friend, then yeah, there will probably be no marriage.
I also knew that he was a part of my life because he was, I
feel like, assigned to me in that way.

(55:39):
There were milestones within hissigns of incarceration.
Like I said, the family aspect of it, finding out who he was as
a person, where he came from, those things I felt very
important to him. He might have not said it, but I
felt it in my heart that it was a place in his heart that needed
to be filled. So knowing your partner in that
way and trying to identify things that they might not even

(55:59):
see within themselves, that's a huge part of it.
Knowing a person's dream, what do they want to accomplish?
Opening up that part of their mind because there's a whole
world out there. Challenging one another for the
better. He got to challenge each other.
He was able to challenge me on something.
I got my book finished that I had been working on for 10
years. I got it done in two weeks once.
He kept challenging me on it. It was a goal set, but it didn't

(56:21):
get accomplished until he kept challenging me on it.
He said you were author where they look at.
So there were moments in our lives where it was like, OK, I
got to put up or shut up. And your partner, when they love
you, they're not scared to challenge you in those ways to
make you a better person and a better human.
And when those two purposes lineup together, then you know

(56:42):
that's your want. After everything you've been
through with this relationship, do you believe that these
relationships can work? Heck yeah.
They can work. They can work.
They can work. They can work.
It's hard work, but they can work.
I've seen other success story. It's not just us.
Yes, we may be rare, but I've seen other people do it.
There's a couple that we look upto the Williams and their

(57:05):
beautiful wife is beautiful husband is making it.
They're doing husband active in the community.
Wife still the same has its back.
I've seen it, but I've also see people that I feel may have
given up on themselves and then eventually gave up on their
relationship or just had other agendas, really weren't ready or
prepared. But I feel like if the people

(57:25):
are prepared to do the work and you choose each other, it can
definitely work. It doesn't have anything to do
with the incarceration park. There are plenty of people who
are walking around broken and unhealed, and if they haven't
been incarcerated, but they still incarcerated in their
mind. So it has nothing to do with
that. But I would say I feel like on
my end, having a husband that doesn't have children, I don't

(57:46):
have to worry about baby Mamas. Us being able to say we have
children by the same person is abig deal for me.
You know what I mean? Knowing the person's deal
Breakers what's acceptable, what's not.
For me, it was like we both got a clean slate.
We both got a chance to rebuild and essentially be reborn and
doing it together. So having that right team
member, being aligned with the same person, able to live life

(58:11):
with the same purpose in mind. And that's the key, with the
same purpose in mind, and I can't say that enough, you're
going to be successful. You just have to be able to make
that decision every day, to choose each other every day and
just be wise about it because you don't go through stuff.
This stuff going to happen. It's just going to happen.
That's what it is. OK, last question.
We all know what Chris is doing and all.

(58:32):
He's everywhere. What is your next steps?
What being a fair home mind, Stay at home mom.
That is my next step. Stay at home mom, cooking,
cleaning, just being a wonderfulwife and mother.
To be honest, it's the first time in my life that I've been
able to just focus on that. Me personally, I've done

(58:53):
everything under the sun that I wanted to do.
I had a chance to live before Chris came home.
I was a flight attendant. I've also worked on a cruise
ship. I worked in hospitality, so I'm
will travel first. I didn't have any children so I
was able to have that freedom and live.
I'm so glad that I got all that stuff out the way.
So by the time I met him, I was literally in a place of waiting,

(59:16):
trying to buy a house. Didn't know how it was going to
be filled. Like like I said, I just knew I
wanted a three bedroom house. Had no idea he was on the way.
But I was settled enough in my life and I knew what type of
direction I wanted to go in. I knew that eventually I would
want to be married. I knew eventually I would want a
husband and children. Everything is still aligning

(59:37):
with the purpose and the dreams that I bad and it's still coming
true because I have somebody to do it with me together because
our purpose is aligned. It's all about the people that
we help, the things that we do on a regular basis, and just the
ability to help change lives in a positive way every day.
That's our goal, that's our mission.
That initial conversation was about nonprofit work, so it was

(59:59):
still about helping people. We're still helping people.
I just want to be able to help him, keep him going so we can
continue to help the rest of theworld as long as we're doing
that. And we're doing it in a positive
way. That's what makes life living
for me. I've always been that person.
When I was behind the chairs doing hair, you tell your
hairstylist everything. I was that listening ear.

(01:00:20):
I was that person to boost self esteem.
I was that person to make peoplefeel good when they walk up out
the salon. Even down to those small
details, it's the same thing. I still want to be able to
identify who might need the helpand being able to help them
without hindering our fields. And that's what it's about.
It's about being able to help each other.
That's what's going to help the world go right, what's going to

(01:00:40):
make life more meaningful. And as long as we're doing that
together, I know we're living our lives on purpose with
perfect. And that's what it's about.
I cannot tell you how blessed I feel to have been able to talk
to you. Like I am so grateful that we
were able to make this happen. So insightful.
I can understand why he has so much love and respect for you.

(01:01:01):
I just appreciate you so much. And I hope this helps from
women, I really do. I hope it's edifying to their
spirit. I hope they get something and
out of it, I hope it really changed his lives and get them
to really look at the relationship a different way
because I mean, I'm getting these messages from ladies.
I got a message the other day and she was like, oh, we just so
into each other. We just love each other.

(01:01:21):
And I'm like, OK, where's the substance?
You know what I mean? I didn't say it in that way.
When we got down to it, what is the purpose?
Is it just to say that you're doing something or is it going
to be beneficial and edifying tothe both of you?
How can you both grow from this?And that's what I want to know.
It's about getting to that meat,not the meat rock.
It's about getting to the meat of things.

(01:01:43):
How can we build? How can we grow?
How is this going to edify our spirit?
So I I just hope it it does thatfor some lady.
I think it will so much. I feel so different already.
Thank you so much. Oh, thank you.
Take care. Thanks again, April.
Thank you. Thank you.
Bye bye.