May 15, 2025 • 47 mins
In this episode, we kick things off with a heartfelt intro from Big Steve of PenPals.buzz, who shares how he met our guest Luis—better known as Bars and Redemption. Luis, who entered the system young and took a plea deal for second-degree murder, opens up about his transformation behind the walls. Books became his lifeline, and personal growth his mission.
Now, with a newfound purpose and presence on penpal platforms, Luis speaks candidly about life inside, the power of relationships, and how loved ones can truly support someone incarcerated. We dive deep into his journey of healing, connection, and his dreams of becoming a relationship coach.
This episode is a must-listen for anyone who believes in second chances and the resilience of the human spirit.
TIKTOK LIVE ALERT! Jae and Official (from the previous two episodes) will be going live on TikTok at 6:30 pm Central. Don't forget to join us and ask any questions you might have!
Check out penpals.buzz for all your penpal needs. If you're interested in being a guest on his podcast, contact podcast@penpals.buzz or help@penpals.buzz. They are also available at 1-888-273-6725.
Check out Luis (Bars and Redemption) and support him by following his Instagram @barsandredemption and messaging him for all your relationship coaching needs.
As always, don't forget to follow us on Instagram @podcast_prisongf or tiktok @morethananinmatesgf
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Because the first thing they think is how can I help you?
How can I send you money? But to me, that's not the right
thing. Welcome to more than an inmate's
girlfriend. I'm your host, Jay and you guys.
This week is. Kind of a unique episode in that
(00:20):
normally we interview loved onesof those that are incarcerated.
This week we are interviewing someone who is incarcerated.
He goes by Bars and Redemption and he has come on today to
speak on prison relationships from his.
Perspective so his. Experiences and not only that,
(00:42):
but we have Big Steve from Pen Pals, dot Buzz, who has come on
today to introduce Bars and redemption and speak a little
bit about his website, but also his podcast where he interviews
people that are on his website and he gives them the
opportunity to kind of say theirstory and whatnot.
(01:03):
I love his podcast. I think it's hilarious.
I highly recommend it. So he's coming on 1st to
introduce Bars and redemption, then we'll get into Bars and
Redemptions episode before that.I wanted to let you guys know
that this Saturday May 17th at 6:30 PM Central I will be going
on TikTok Live official who is the woman that was in the past
(01:26):
two episode. She will be joining me on TikTok
live to answer any questions youmight have about her episode,
but also the podcast. It's the first time we're doing
this. I've never done a tick tock live
in my life. I don't even know how to get
there. But we'll figure it out.
So we would appreciate the love and support.
Please come hang out with us. So again, this Saturday, May
(01:48):
17th, 6:30 PM Central, mark yourcalendars, put your notification
in your phone, come hang out with us and ask any questions
that you might have. So yeah, that's it.
I am going to let you get into the episode because I don't want
to take any more of your time. So I hope you enjoy it and I
hope, hope, hope to see you on Saturday on TikTok Live.
(02:09):
Yay. Oh, and don't forget to follow
the show. And that's it.
Enjoy. Thank you so much for joining me
today. I'm so excited to finally get
the chance to talk to you. I'm excited too man.
I think we've been binging each other's podcast.
I think so. It's great to bring us both
(02:30):
together on one speaker is fantastic.
Yeah. So can you tell everybody who
you are for those that don't know, because you're right, I've
been binging. I know all about you.
Certainly. So I'm big.
Steve and I founded a website called Pen Pals dot Buzz a
couple of years ago and we also have a prison Pen Pal podcast
(02:50):
which can be found at penpalpodcast.com or on our site
at Pen Pal Stop Buzz. Yeah, I'll give you a little
background of my story and how Iended up on a prison on 2 prison
podcasts. Now, I was locked up myself for
11 years. I got out in 2018 and during
those eleven years I used every inmate services company that
(03:13):
ever advertised in prison legal news.
I mean, I had myself addressed envelopes and I signed up for
every pen pal site known to man.And ultimately I ended up
writing in those eleven years probably hundreds of people and
ended up meeting my now wife on one of the sites.
I'm not sure which one, interestingly, but through that
(03:35):
process I learned so many of thecompanies, I don't want to name
names, but the customer service was horrible.
You'd send your money and you wouldn't hear back.
Sometimes it would take a year to actually get some response
back. And a lot of times three or four
or five months was somewhat common to get any kind of
response. And when I got out at, you know,
(03:55):
I thought, you know what, I can,I want to do this better.
I want to, you know, have great customer service and have a
faster turn around and, and treat our customers like human
beings, not like inmate numbers.I mean, they just treat you like
crap, you know, when you're in there and they treat everybody
like they're trying to scam the system and trying to RIP people
off. And, and I know some do, and I
(04:18):
know, you know, you've talked about that a bit, but the
majority really don't. And, and we have a couple
thousand members who are, you know, there's a few bad ones in
the bunch, but the majority are,are decent, good people.
And so we wanted to treat them like that.
There's this misconception that a pen pal side is all about
dating and relationships, and that is for some people, but we
(04:40):
want to really focus on the friendship aspect.
Based on the studies that are out there that inmates that have
a pen pal, they're less likely to reoffend the prison
assessments that are done in theprison.
They want you to have positive social influences in your life.
And we've led to lots of marriages and romance, but I'd
say 80% are just really good friends that were bringing
(05:04):
together. And then maybe that turns into
something, maybe it doesn't. Yeah.
I love how you said that becauseI was listening to some of your
episodes. I remember this girl, I think
her name was Amy, and she had like a dozen.
She's like a marketer for a. Cannabis company and she had all
these people and she's like, I just wanted to reach out to them
and be their friend and like totally platonic and just guide
(05:25):
them and help them because she worked in cannabis and whatever
and I was like. Wow.
Yeah, and she was an intelligent, college educated
woman. She was a marketing executive.
And yeah, she wrote. A dozen inmates who all had kind
of low level marijuana charges and some of them were grossly
over sentenced for that. For an ounce of marijuana, you
(05:46):
end up with 20 years or something.
But really interesting people that you come across for sure.
Yeah. When did you actually?
Start Pen pal Dal Buzz like the site we.
Started in, let's see, I think it was around June of 2023.
So it's been just about two years.
And do you love doing it? I love it.
I love knowing how many people I'm helping and I'm helping not
(06:09):
just be incarcerated people, butI'm helping people that are in
the free world that for whateverreason in their life, they can
really benefit as well from having a pen pal inmate.
It's a hell of a lot of work though.
I think people that are out there, they think I'm just going
to set up a pen pal sign and I'll make millions of dollars
(06:30):
and it'll be easy. I mean, we're here all the time.
I mean, it's 7 at night. I'm still here and I'll probably
be here at 10 tonight, you know?So it's a lot of work.
So if anyone else that's thinking, oh, we can compete
with Big Steve, I'd suggest you don't.
It's just too much work. You'll hate it.
And where did you get the best idea ever to start a podcast and
(06:50):
interview the people that you are showcasing on your site?
Years, years, years ago, many years ago, I was a radio guy.
Back when DJs were actually DJs on the radio and things were
live and radio was fun. I don't know how old you are, if
you'd even remember those days, but we had a lot of fun on the
radio and I missed out a lot. And the last radio show I did
(07:12):
was in 2008. And I always just wanted to find
a way to combine kind of that aspect.
It was like part of my life for so many years.
And then I thought, you know what, you can see these
profiles, you can see the pictures and there's some sites
that'll play a little short videos or you see the videos on
(07:33):
TikTok or what not. But how cool is it to actually
spend 10 or 15 minutes and hear this person's story?
And I wanted to humanize these people that they're hated by so
many people in society. You go on social media, people
want inmates just all to be murdered and killed and hung and
shot and whatever, you know? And and I want to just show that
(07:56):
there's another side to everybody and there's good and a
lot of these people that you might be judging without even
hearing what they have to say. Yeah, I remember when I was
listening to one of your episodes and you're talking to
this guy who, like, killed a random woman in Connecticut.
And I was like, Oh my gosh. And then he's.
Talking and describing what happened and how he felt and all
(08:18):
the stuff. And I'm like, I would have never
messaged this person in my life.But you gave him that
opportunity to kind of like plead his case and and show his
character a little bit more. So he probably got that
increased likelihood of someone talking to him because his crime
from the outside. And and I did Google him after
to be fair. Yeah, it's quite a story, right?
(08:39):
It's quite a story. Shocked, but you really did give
him that humanity. So I really feel like this whole
thing that you're doing is really working because.
Thank you. A lot of people that are just
people and make mistakes or suffer from different things.
I hate to say it, people think even my wife, she gets on me
when I play some of these podcasts and she's like what the
hell? Because she's not.
(09:00):
She even met me on a pen pal side and she judges.
But I mean, I hate it when I'm like, yeah, this guy, he was
like very polite and respectful to me.
And it seems like a normal guy, but he stabbed a woman and on a
hiking trail or whatever. It's hard to put those two
things to to think somebody thatcould be kind, that somebody
that talks to his mother every night on the phone, goes out and
(09:23):
murders someone on a park trail.It's very what would you call?
It just messes with your mind for sure do.
You vet people or is anybody allowed that signs up for your
website? No, Everybody's allowed.
There's so much discrimination based on certain crimes and
whatnot. We never wanted to be like that,
but they pay to be on the site, so there's that part.
(09:45):
But if they want to be on the site, they can be.
We just make sure of someone saying they're in for nonviolent
drug crime and they're in for murder.
Then we just make sure we have the right information in their
profile. We don't want to mislead
anybody. A lot of people are looking for,
we have a death row section. A lot of people want to write
(10:06):
people that have maybe more serious crimes that might not
get out. Some people think that's safer
for them. They don't have to worry that
the person will get out. So yeah, we give everybody a
chance, treat everybody the same.
I don't give discounts to more solid crimes or anything like
that. Well that's good to hear.
It's funny you say that because when I messaged my husband, it
(10:28):
was purely for like, not research, but I was curious to
talk to someone who might have more time on their hands to
research things and read more and whatever.
And I was trying to look for some bigger, deeper answers of
life. And I purposely made sure it was
someone who like when I was looking on write a prisoner,
Sorry, I didn't know your site existed.
(10:49):
I made sure it was life because I was scared.
I was like, no way. Like I don't want someone to
come out and kill me. So I'm just going to make sure
that they're sentenced to life and then here I am.
That only backfires when you endup marrying that person, right?
Or you can't be. But I always just thought it
would be more interesting. I mean, if I were to write a
woman in prison, say, the letters in my mind would be so
(11:12):
much more interesting, someone with a serious crime versus a
shoplifter or someone that had marijuana.
I'd want to know what was going on in their head.
And here are some of the, you know, if I wanted to write like
a petty theft person, I could just find someone like that on,
you know, match or something. You'd be surprised how many
(11:34):
people we've interviewed that met their person on Plenty of
Fish. That's crazy.
I bet, yeah. So the person that you're
introducing today and the reasonwhy we had you on was we
actually met you through a individual who is currently
incarcerated. So can you talk to me a little
bit about Louis and how you met him?
(11:54):
Yeah, Louis, he found our website and messaged us and
wanted to join the site. He actually was one of our last
lifetime members. We had a pretty sweet deal where
you could join for lifetime for a good price and he started
talking to us, wanted to be on the podcast, wanted to help us.
(12:16):
And when we first started talking, the first thing that
jumped out about him was he justhad such a better attitude than
most of the people we work with.He didn't play the victim.
He was always looking forward and thinking positive.
We talked, we got him on the podcast.
He's written a few really great blogs on our site as well and
(12:40):
once called How to Support Someone in Prison Tips for
meaningful communication. They're not just what you'd
expect, where it would be like an inmate writing how to support
me, send me commissary, send me money.
It was almost the person on the streets perspective.
He did a really good job balancing the pros and cons of
(13:00):
all of it. We added him to the site within
like a month he had 39 messages,became just through our site and
I know other people messaged himdirectly or wrote to him snail
mail or what not, so I know he got a lot of people.
His profile is amazing, his pictures are great, like
everything. I thought he was just a genuine
(13:21):
guy and we've kept in touch. It's been about six months I
think since he joined. Oh.
Wow, I love it because he was one of the first people probably
that I spoke to that was currently incarcerated.
And he gave such a different perspective.
Like you said, I remember and people will hear his interview
after we speak to you, but he was so insightful.
(13:44):
He was so thoughtful when he spoke.
I remember asking him about likewhere he learned everything that
he learned. And it's like books and he said
books and he recognized, you know, that there was more to
life and you needed to grow to be the next person.
And he was just super, super honest and I find he really
helps to try and break that stigma of people that are
(14:07):
incarcerated, like you said, being scammers or have negative
intentions. Yeah, no, I was really
surprised. And it's funny you mentioned
books because he mentioned that for all the years he's been
locked up, he's used a lot of the books to prisoners programs
that are out there. And it just read tons of things
and said he actually and met someone that turned into a pen
(14:29):
pal that used to be a volunteer at one of those books to
prisoner sites. I thought that was great.
They were just friends or what not.
But he really has a different perspective.
He genuinely wants inmates to succeed, not fail.
And just saying things like sendthem the gift of knowledge.
Don't just send love letters. You know, they don't need so
(14:50):
many love letters and so much negativity.
Just keep it real, keep him motivated, don't play into the
pity party, that type of stuff that I think so many people tend
to. Oh, I'm so sorry that happened.
That's so awful, you know? But focus on moving forward
instead of backwards. Yeah, yeah.
And I love also how he loves to connect people.
(15:11):
He's just always so like, hey, Isaw this person, you might want
to do this or whatever. He's just always just so
helpful. And do you know how there's so
much competition in the world? And like people, you know, he
doesn't have that. And I think that's just
personality growth, but it also just shows just how there are
really good people that are behind bars and a lot of people
(15:33):
just automatically go to negative.
And here's this guy that I've never even met, lives in a
different state, and he's tryingto help us promote our podcast
and he's trying to connect us with all these people.
And he's trying to give us all these great ideas.
And it's constantly doing that, you know, and it's genuine.
Like he's not trying to get anything from us.
He's never asked. He's never like, it's just so
just genuinely, I want to help you and I believe in you, you
(15:54):
know? Yeah, at first I hadn't known
him as well. And like the first day he
messages us, he was volunteeringto take over all of our social
media and run our Instagram and our Facebook.
And I'm thinking like, man, thiswould be great, but I don't know
this guy, you know, but but now that I do, I'm like, maybe we
could do that because he just wanted to help us and I guess
(16:15):
help you and help everybody. I really appreciated that.
And just total gentleman, I meanpolite, which sometimes we don't
always run into in our line of work.
I think you more than me, but. Why That's always Why didn't I
get any messages? Why are you scamming me?
(16:37):
Oh no, that's true. That would happen.
You guys must be a scam. You know, a lot of people just
assume they're going to get scammed.
I think because of how a lot of these companies treat people in
prison, we're good, we're honest.
So where do you go from here? I mean, you've got the website,
you've got the podcast. Do you have any other future
plans or is this what you're focused on right now?
(17:00):
This is what we're focused on right now.
We had a site called Inmate Blogger, which we're kind of
winding down. It was an amazing site.
It's still out there, inmateblogger.com, but it's
just, it was too much work and we were not really able to focus
on the pen pal side as much as we needed to.
So we're focused on this. We want to just keep growing.
(17:21):
At some point, we would love to find a way to interlink pen Pal
Stop Buzz with the J Pays and securities of the world so that
messages can be more easily sentand received.
That's a struggle for a lot of people, and some of these
systems are pretty rough. So we're just trying to work
with some of these companies andmaybe come up with a way to
(17:44):
facilitate that communication, make it easier for everybody.
Awesome. And can you give us again what
the site is called? And if someone wanted to sign up
their friend who's incarcerated,what do they do?
So pen pals dot Buzz, which is BUZZ and if they would like to
sign up, they can order on our website.
(18:05):
There's a link at the top that says add an inmate and we have a
couple different pricing plans that starts at $45.00 for a
year. They can also order by phone,
8882 pen pal. That's our number.
Or we have other options too. They can e-mail help at Pen pals
dot buzz and then we can talk about Venmo or other options for
(18:28):
payment. That's awesome.
And that's during the week. Is it like during business
hours? Yeah, so we're here 5:50 Pacific
Time Monday through Friday. Awesome.
And then I'm checking e-mail allthe time too, so they can e-mail
me at 3:00 in the morning. My wife doesn't like that But
but. And if someone wanted to come on
(18:49):
the podcast and talk to you, hassomething interesting that
they'd like to pitch you, do they use that same?
Contact Yeah, it would be great.It's always great to have new
guests, new people. So if you can e-mail either that
help address or podcast at pen pals dot Buzz will go right to
me and yeah, and I'd love that. Just tell me your story and
let's get you on, man. Let's Share your story with all
(19:09):
five of our listeners. As I started this podcast in
November, whatever I've gone away from like the podcast that
a million people listen to, likeI'm trying to support local type
thing. And.
When you find a good one, you really stick to it because
you're like, oh like that's awesome and you want to support
(19:29):
them. And I got to say, you're in my
top right now. I just can't stop laughing.
I can't stop laughing. I was just listening to 1 and I
am like, I have to tell my husband about like how to melt
cheese properly. Like it was someone you
interviewed who was talking about her cookbook.
And I was like, Oh my gosh, she's throwing out some tips so.
(19:51):
Yeah, she was great. Fury, what was her name?
Paris was her real name. She was great.
Yeah. Yeah, that was a fun one.
Yeah. I was going to go melt some
cheese and cook some food that night.
I mean, call it the Prison Pen Pal podcast, but.
Anything that can loosely relateto prison and pen pals, it all
(20:13):
ties in kind of to the grand experience of it.
Yeah, I love it. I highly recommend it and I'm
thoroughly enjoying myself. So I really hope you keep it up
and I really look forward to hearing about more people that
are incarcerated in their stories because it really is eye
opening so and you are so good at.
Thank you so much. That's why you're making me
(20:34):
blessed, Jay. Well, thank you so much for
coming on and introducing Luis alittle bit.
I appreciate your time so much and.
You bet. Great talking to you.
Yeah, you too. Take care.
Welcome, Bars and Redemption. So thank you, Bars and
(20:55):
Redemption, for coming and joining me today.
Thank you for having me. I just want to jump right in.
Let's talk a little bit about you.
If you want to just introduce yourself a little bit and who
you are. What can I say about being,
well, I'm just somebody that's been incarcerated since I was
18. I am now turning 32 on March.
I still got about another 15 more years to do.
(21:17):
Maybe 13 with your time. Wow.
Yeah. Is it your first present number?
My first actually felony as an adult.
I've done juvenile time before, but this is actually the one
that really hit me. We didn't really talk about this
and I'm just genuinely curious and you don't have to answer,
but what was that like receivingsuch a long sentence at such a
young age? Well, you know, at that age, you
(21:37):
don't really care. Yeah.
You're so wild and living your own life that you don't really
pay attention to the consequences of what you're
doing until it's too late. It didn't really sink in when
you were 18. Yeah, it didn't sink in.
Maybe because seven years later,right?
And then you started on this kind of different journey, you'd
say like 7 years in or was it more recent than that?
(21:59):
I started my awakening, I'm gonna call it, in 2020.
That's really when I actually sit down because I was in the
maximum security, so 24 hours a day, locked in by myself.
And that's when I began reading and learning about people's
lives. And I was like, man, I want
that. And I just kind of woke myself
that I could do better and be better than what I was doing.
(22:21):
Yeah, my fiance had a similar kind of experience to you, so
that's why I'm asking these kinds of questions.
I find it really fascinating. And he says very similar things
to you where he just woke up oneday and was I don't want to be
doing the things that I'm doing.He has this whole passion of
reform starts with us and how the people inside that are
currently serving sentences needto work on themselves and better
(22:43):
themselves so that they're takenmore seriously by society.
Yeah, some people just need the time to see what they're doing
and how it's affecting their life and how they could do
something to change it and become better.
This is kind of weird, but do you ever regret it?
Do you ever have moments where you're like, I wish I wasn't on
this different path than I was when I was a kid?
That's a good question. You know, something that a lot
(23:04):
of people have asked me before. Honestly, I don't think I'll be
the person that I am without this sentence.
This amount of time is what madeyou who you are.
Yes, being able to have the timeto actually sit down and learn
things and experience and have visions and goals and all that,
because who know where I'd be ifI was still out there.
Right. Did you have any mentors in
(23:26):
there? The book, really the books are
my mentors. Wow.
Are you open to talking a littlebit about what you were charged
with? Why you got such a long
sentence? Yeah, I was charged with second
degree murder, which was actually something that played
out too, because I was totally charged with first degree.
But you know, with fighting the case and going to court, I
actually got to drop the second degree and I played out.
(23:47):
I actually played out to 30 years to avoid a license because
that's what I was looking to give me.
Did you make that decision on your own or was your family
involved? I think that that was my only
option I had and I had to take it.
It was either take it that week or go to trial because my trial
was already set to start and everything.
And since you've been in prison and you're on this journey of
(24:09):
growth and learning and experience all these different
things, what would you say so far has been the most valuable
piece of advice you've gotten? That mine is free even when the
body isn't. I love that.
Did you read that? Believe I read that in a book
called or Think and Grow Rich byNapoleon Hill.
I'm in the middle of reading that.
I haven't finished it yet but I started it months ago.
(24:30):
There's something that was interesting in that book because
that book talks about people in prison and they talked about how
a woman could change a man's mentality and way of seeing
things, too. And do you believe that?
Yes, I believe that the man has a goal and something to look
forward to. Maybe then, yes, he could go out
there and be something different.
When you were incarcerated, wereyou with?
Someone at the time. Yes, I was actually dating the
(24:52):
mother of my son at that time. We were actually together for
like 5 months when I got picked up, she was actually two months
pregnant. So I kind of had my kid being
locked up and I was with her fora little bit over a year at
first. But then, you know, after my
life, after I plead out to my sentence, just told her to go
home with her life because therewas life with me.
(25:13):
That must have been a really hard decision to make.
Yeah, it was a lot of anger, a lot of emotion.
Yeah, and how did she react? Was she upset about it?
Oh yeah, she was devastated. She didn't want to see it the
way I saw it at first, but laterin life she kind of just went
her way and started her own family and started her own life.
After that, at what point were you like, huh, maybe I do want
(25:35):
to look into those prison relationships.
Maybe I do want a female in my life.
I ain't going a lot. I just did this last year.
No way. I just joined Pen Pal for that
Buzz and Write a prisoner actually, and from there, that's
when I started trying to look for something different.
Maybe now that I'm halfway through my sentence, maybe now I
feel differently because I don'tsee it as that long.
After your son's mother, you didn't date anyone else until
(25:58):
last year, Yes. Wow.
I've been really just involved in me focus on my own personal
growth. And you never really thought
about it until last year. And you just thought about it
because your sentence, you're halfway down at this point.
Well, I mean, you get lonely sometimes and stuff like that,
but I just didn't see myself being fit for one.
I didn't see myself being able to control my emotions and I see
(26:22):
being able to actually be fit for one until recently.
Are the guys around you, are they similar to you or are you
kind of unique in that way that you were single for so long?
I mean, everybody has different sentences.
I think guys that have life sentences with, you know, wives
and stuff and I think guys that are going to go home in the next
year and have nobody. So it's kind of give or take of
(26:43):
who it is and what they want outof life.
Right. And when you signed yourself up
last year on these two sites, what was your goal?
Like what were you looking for? Were you looking for a short
term? Were you looking for a long term
partner? Like what were you thinking when
you put yourself in that vulnerable position?
I was really just looking to meet people, telling my story,
hopefully help them because you know, one of my goals is to
(27:05):
become a coach. I thought it more as a
professional way. I didn't expect nobody to just
start seeing me that way. Sometimes things work out.
What was it like when you post to yourself?
Were you nervous? Yes.
I'm not going to like because I didn't know what the response
was going to be. I didn't know how people see me.
And what was it like? I got a lot of responses.
(27:26):
I'm not going to lie, I got a lot of responses, but honestly,
being somebody so much, I becamevery picky now.
Like I'm very, very picky of whoI give my time to who I thought,
you know, I got a few goals, visions and stuff like that
because I can't just be with somebody that have no visions or
no goals in their lives. Right.
Did you find it difficult when you first started?
(27:48):
Yes, this is a very difficult thing.
And I guess everyone's going to be wondering, did you have any
level of success yet? Yeah, I have met a few people,
had a few conversations. A lot of women I have met
through those websites, so because they're lonely and
because like pretty much they run out of options out there,
which is crazy to me. You know what?
Pause for a minute. The men that are in the real
(28:11):
world, outside, there's just so many not good ones.
I don't know. Yeah, I mean, I've been with my
fiance now for a year and he actually has a life sentence and
it's not anything that I anticipated doing or having in
my life. I think he relates to you
because he's really well read. That's how we connected.
We start. Reading books together, it
developed into something more, but at the beginning that was
(28:33):
just not at all what I was looking for was a relationship,
and nobody that I know really can relate to the level of
respect. And appreciation that he has for
me. We learned to appreciate people
in here, you know, because out there we take a lot of things
for granted. I agree, and there's not as much
distraction. I find you're not out doing all
these things and stressed out and whatnot.
(28:53):
How did you kind of weed out people?
Did you ask certain questions? Did you come up with strategy or
you just could feel what they were like and just thought they
weren't connected to you? Yeah, I just asked a lot of
questions and read a lot of response.
To me it's more about the response, not on exactly what
they say, but how they say it. Is there someone that you've
established and had the most meaningful connection with I
(29:14):
could? Say I did, I had a few people
that I actually I'm very friendly with nowadays and
hopefully when I get out I'm still friendly with them.
I don't know without relationship will go, but
there's a lot of people that I learned that there's good people
out there and I got a good heartand a good mind.
Sometimes they just need a friend who's different and who
wants to send them and who just listens.
(29:35):
Yeah. Were you worried at all about
your charge when you were talking to them?
No, I always been very peaceful with my life.
To me, that's just a mistake I made in my life, is a chapter of
my life and I'm happy to share it with people and hopefully
they could learn something from it.
If you ever were in a serious relationship, if you did get
into it, would you think about deactivating those profiles?
(29:58):
And the reason I ask is AJ and Idisagree on this.
His friends, even inside, they'dbe like, why does Jay not care?
Why is Jay letting you just do that?
That's so weird because Jay's just looking for a reason to
leave me, you know, like Jay's like, so it's like a running
joke. I'm also really a secure person,
but there's not a lot of people that are that secure.
(30:20):
So if that conversation came up,how do you feel about having
that profile? That's a good one.
You know, believe that the relationship is serious.
Yeah, why not take it down? But at the same time, a paper
website is not just to look for love, it's to look for more than
that. It's a good place to network.
Pretty much is the only place tonetwork for a lot of people
because not everybody have way of communication and sometimes
(30:43):
they just may be looking for somebody to help them with their
case or want to get closer to God or anything.
So it could be different goals. Now I understand if it's
profiles say something about looking for specific type of
women or something, then yeah, you should at least change the
information on it. But that's something you really
need to talk to your partner about and discuss really in
details how it could help and how it could you know.
(31:05):
Do you think it's possible, in your opinion, to have a
monogamous, committed relationship with someone that
you met while incarcerated through those sites?
Yeah, I think anything is possible.
And what do you think are some of the most important aspects of
that relationship for you? Loyalty and loyalty is more than
love to me. Loyalty is everything.
(31:27):
So it's just really just being honest with that person and
telling them exactly what your goal is and don't try to
sugarcoat nothing or hide nothing from them.
And how do you feel about trust?Do you think that you'd have
struggled with trusting someone on the outside that you've only
met while you were incarcerated?You didn't know from before.
I mean, no, I think when you start meeting the persons, you
(31:47):
started seeing how they are, reading them, understanding
them. I don't think you should start
by not trusting somebody becausethat right there, you're
starting already on the negativeside.
Now, if the person gives you a lot of reasons for you not to
trust them and there you go. But don't ever start with just
saying I don't trust nobody. So you trust them a little bit
before. Yeah, I will learn about them,
(32:09):
read them, understand how they think, how they move.
I don't know where you are. There are certain states that
are more scammy, for lack of better word than others, where
the men are more inclined to be dating these women or finding
these women so that they can buythem stuff and help them with
stuff. Have you seen that around you?
Like I said, I thought it reallydepends on the individual
(32:31):
because there's ways to survive in here, there's ways to
actually help out there, there'sactually ways to move together,
think together and maybe start businesses and things.
So your future could be a lot better.
Depends on the individual or howhe thinks and how he moves.
If you could give some women advice that interested maybe in
going on right a prisoner or trying to learn about someone
(32:55):
who's currently incarcerated, isthere any advice that you would
give to them? Yes, it's actually article I
wrote about that. Oh really?
Where? It's on the blog on pen Pal,
that buzz. OK, to me, it's actually about
just not sugar coating nothing and just being upfront with what
you want, what your goal is. And hopefully the guys in the
(33:16):
good mental state that gives youthe same energy back because I'm
not gonna let not everybody's onthe same energy.
So what was that website again? Just for people that are curious
in reading the article you wrote.
Pen pal that buzz. On that note, have you ever had
any kind of negative experienceswith a pen pal?
Not in that way. Like everything.
There's a lot of women that write and I don't know where
they just stop writing for whatever reason.
(33:37):
But I don't take it personal andI don't see it as a negative
thing. You know, maybe they had their
reasons or maybe they found something that's not what they
want. So you just had ghosting?
Yes, For me personally, just given the situation and our
circumstances, we were just pen pals for a very long time.
We only talked on the phone after four or five months.
In your opinion, do you think that people should get on the
(33:59):
phone right away? Do you want to talk to them
right away? Do you want to be pen pals with
them right away? What do you think is better that
circumstance to get to know someone?
I think a letter is more personal.
That's a lot more personal. You get to take your time, read
it, and it's good to actually learn to meet somebody through
those letters before you get on the phone call because by the
time you get on the phone call, you can actually see if those
(34:20):
words match with voice. It's funny you say that because
my fiance was saying in one of his experiences, he said that
talking to someone on messaging and then when he talked to them
on the phone, they were completely different.
And he's like this person that was portrayed a certain way,
portrayed themselves a certain way on messenger, on the phone.
They just were completely different.
(34:42):
And he kind of felt not fooled, but he was surprised at how
different they were on the phone.
Yes. So that's why I think it's
better to I want to take take that I would do four months,
three months, you know write letters because the letters
takes a minute to get there anyway.
So you could change at least 5-6letters before you get on the
phone call. Have you had that experience?
We've called them. Personally, I don't get nervous
(35:04):
or shy. I'm an open person and you know,
like I said, I'm trying to be a coach when I get out, so I'm
trying to work on public speaking and all that stuff so.
What kind of coach do you want to be?
Relationship Coach. Oh, what made you want to do
that? That's mostly what I read.
I read a lot of books like Men Not for Mars, Women Not for
Beingness and The Fight Love languages and stuff like that.
(35:26):
So those books got me really seeing how relationships could
become better. And have you practiced yet?
Yes, so I have helped a couple of guys here write letters and
become better. I let them borrow a couple books
so they could actually better their relationship, understand
women better, how to deal with that toxic part sometimes,
(35:48):
right? Sometimes.
How does it feel? That must be a cool feeling when
you help someone like that. Yeah, yeah, it's a different
feeling. It makes you feel like you gave
it back to society. Absolutely.
So do you want to talk to me a little bit more about bars and
redemption? Is that what it's about?
Yes, at first I started as a wayto just show people what prison
(36:09):
is like, but I ended up moving to something that is beyond
back. And now it's more focused on
relationships and coaching. Well, right now I'm trying to
show people what prison life is a little like.
And I'm trying to teach guys in here how to help financially by
themselves. You know, little things like
setting up stores where they canactually sell their commissary
for a little money. You know, help the guys that
(36:31):
don't have ways to get their money put in their books, but
their family wants to help them somehow.
I haven't really focused on my on relationships because I
haven't really I put a plan on how to do it, but I'm working on
that. That's my next step though.
Cool, where did you come up withthe name bars and Redemption?
That's a good question. I was really just going to name
it Redemption, but I had to fix it where we come from and the
(36:54):
only thing that people could think of prison is bars.
So I had to just add the word bars.
That makes sense though, and when you're elaborating on this
relationship coaching, are you focusing on guys that are
inside, or are you also wanting to coach women who are looking
to be better in their relationships?
Well, that relationship part is more for women out there, how to
(37:15):
understand those and how to helpwas because the first thing they
think is how can I help you? How can I send you money?
But to me, that's not the right thing.
The right thing is how can I help you?
What book do you need that you actually need in your life?
For what do you want to do in your life that I could help you
become that person? I love that.
And if a woman came to you and was worried about her
relationship, or she felt that he was being sneaky or she
(37:38):
wasn't sure what was going on, she was disconnected from him
and he was on the inside. What would you recommend for
her? Well, understand him first
because man, sometimes they justgo in their cave and sometimes
they just need a moment to come out and you can't just baby them
because if you baby them, you just going to push them into The
Cave even more deeper. So sometimes you just got to let
(37:58):
them come out of their cave. Understand why was there being
different or how are they being different and help them by just
let them feed them. So would you say like give them
space? I want to say give them space,
but learn to understand how he is right.
That's the man. Because men are different than
women in a lot of ways. So I know women sometimes when
(38:19):
they have a problem that what they want to do is talk about it
and then the opposite will actually shut down about it.
Yeah, that's true. So you were mentioning about
like babying them. So would you say not to send
money or what do you mean by babying?
Yeah, I mean, like sometimes a woman just got to go hard and
(38:40):
they want to help, but they don't know how to help.
And the first thing they think is like, oh, let me sing him 50.
Let me help him that way. But to me that's not really
helping a man because a man needs more than money just to be
helped. Sometimes he needs guidance,
Sometimes he need. And he ain't going to tell you.
He would never tell you that because we are proud people.
We are very close people. They don't like to be like, oh,
(39:00):
we ain't what? Yeah, I find it hard sometimes
to be vulnerable. Like I feel like you guys are in
such a hard environment that being emotional and being
vulnerable in your relationship.I feel like it's kind of hard
sometimes for women to get theirmen to open up.
Do you have any advice for them on how to get you out of your
(39:21):
shell and be more vulnerable, bemore open?
That's something that it's very hard because men are not going
to open up to a woman like that,even though they love her.
That's her life, that's her wife.
They've been dating for years. I mean, it's going to be hard
for us to open because we're notused to that.
We open up to somebody means that we're not doing our job and
(39:41):
we don't know how to do our job and we need help.
And sometimes we don't like thatbecause like I said, we proud
people. So we are the opposite of just
talking about our problems. So it's like a sign of weakness
for you guys. Yes I would write a woman.
Just understand them. Don't push him too hard.
Don't ask too many questions. If he's going through it, let
(40:03):
him go through it on his own. He will eventually come out of
it and tell you. If he doesn't tell you, then
eventually he will tell you. Fair.
And something else that I also found really interesting is that
because it's a different dynamic, like I don't know how
you find it, but for me being inthis type of relationship,
(40:23):
because he's in prison, he can'tdo things that I'm used to, like
going out and Take Me Out for dinner or like taking the snow
off my car or whatever. And those things that really
make you masculine and make you like the provider and all those
quote UN quote generic type masculine roles that people have
(40:44):
in relationship. And it's kind of not really
possible in a a lot of ways whenyour man is incarcerated.
How do you create that dynamic so that the person who's inside
can still feel masculine, can still feel like he's the
provider or he's the leader? What do you think about that?
Sometimes it's hard because we in here, we can't help y'all and
(41:06):
our thoughts go crazy sometimes.But if you could find a way for
him to become a provider, some type of way, it could be
something small. I don't have to be something big
that will actually fill him up. It wouldn't fill him up all the
way, but he would fill him up a little bit.
So like help him with a side hustle or something?
Yes, yes. Something.
(41:27):
You know, if he knows how to draw, help him to start his own
website where he could make at least a few hundreds a month or
something to help you with the bills or whatever, or anything
that makes you feel like he's given to your life.
So where do you see this bars and redemption going in the next
few years? What's your vision of where it's
going to? Go hopefully I could get some
(41:48):
books out there for y'all and become kind of bigger on the way
of views and stuff so I could help more people.
I haven't really thought of it on the long term, but on the
next five years, like you said, that's those are momentum.
You know, I hopefully I could get at least two books out
there, one for women and one forthe guys inside, and then
(42:08):
hopefully I could get some type of clients I could work with and
actually help them become betterin their relationship.
And if there was one thing that you would want women to
understand about guys that are incarcerated, what do you think
that you would want us to know that you don't think we would
know? And here we go through a lot of
emotions, and here we go througha lot of anger, a lot of
(42:31):
happiness. Happiness, I mean, the emotions
are everywhere in here and we'renot really they emotional
creatures. Yeah.
So sometimes you just got to understand that he's not going
to be his best self every time. Sometimes he's going to be
completely different. And if you really love this
person, you going to understand them when he is and you going to
(42:52):
learn how to deal with that sideof him until he's able to
actually be back out there and be next to you.
And do you think that that changes when a man is in a
relationship versus when he's not in there?
Do you see changes in them? Like do you find that you change
or the guys around you when theystart dating someone new?
Like how does it affect their life positively?
(43:13):
Oh, yeah, You know, guys, Guys in relationships don't want to
get in trouble because they don't want to lose that visit.
They don't want to lose those phone calls.
Guys in relationships are less likely to get in trouble with
other guys in here that are not in a relationship.
Interesting. So I think you're going to like
this question. How do you feel about the states
(43:36):
that have conjugals versus the states that don't?
How do you think that it would make a difference in your life
if you guys had the ability to have conjugal visits?
I think that would be very helpful for everybody.
Really. I wish every state had them
because that actually gives you the knowledge to learn how to
deal with it as a family man, how to be a family man.
(43:56):
It will actually train you to deal with things, being able to
be with your significant other on the weekend or anything or
even a day. And the violence, I think the
violence will go down automatically because who will
want to lose that? Who will want to be with their
family on the weekend? You know a. 100% I've always
wondered about that. My significant other is not in a
(44:17):
state with conjugals, but like California, for example, is
always like the one that everybody knows about and talks
about. And I've always wondered because
I've heard California prisons are quite dangerous and there's
a lot and whatever, but then at the same time they have
conjugal. So I've always wondered if it
actually does affect the violence in there.
Compared to other states, I believe they do.
I believe, yeah. I mean, every person is
(44:38):
dangerous at the end of the day.But if you really compare it to
other states that don't have conjugal physics, you're going
to see that they're less violentthan other states actually.
And I would really be curious about your input on women, men
that are dating men that maybe are not on the right track and
(44:58):
they're trying to help them be on the right track.
Oftentimes, like you see stuff in groups and whatnot of like,
oh, my mom went to the hole or he's fighting or he's doing all
these things. What advice would you give them
to try and help them guide theirman in the right direction?
Is there something that we can do from the outside, or do you
really feel that it's a totally personal thing for these guys to
(45:21):
want to change? Yeah, I think it's a personal
thing. You know, you can't help what
doesn't want to help what doesn't want to be open.
You can't really change a person.
As much as we would like to. We can't change nobody.
Yeah, you're right. So you think that there's really
nothing we could do? Yeah, sometimes you just got to
give them that tough love and hopefully they see it before
it's just too late. Is there anything else that you
(45:45):
want to share about bars and redemption and what you're doing
and who you are? I think that you have a lot of
really good insights and I thinkyou've grown a lot in probably
the years from what you said. Who I'm talking to right now is
probably very different from the18 year old you.
Oh. Yeah.
Is there anything else you want to share about either bars and
(46:05):
redemption or yourself? Or any pain, if anybody, the
ones that look at my work, they could just go to my Instagram
and just buy bars and redemptionand really everything.
And I tear and there's a little bit of me personal books, you
know, life inside, tips, quotes,anything.
So mainly that's where you'll see a lot of me in there.
Nice. And are you open to having women
(46:29):
reach out to you through there if they are looking to maybe get
some coaching? Yes, I am open.
They could come and contact me, let me know the type of problems
they having and I'll be happy tohelp.
It's very nice of you. So for everyone out there who's
listening right now, if you are currently having some
relationship issues and need some advice and would like to
(46:51):
have some coaching services by Bars and Redemption, as he said,
feel free to reach out to him onInstagram and your handles at
Bars and Redemption. He did.
All right. Well, thank you so much.
I appreciate your time. I appreciate you taking the time
to talk to me and kind of give that opposite perspective.
I think it's really important. Yeah, it was.
(47:11):
Fun. Yeah, we don't get to do it a
lot. So I appreciate you connecting
with us. I'm sure it was a lot of fun and
thank you for having me. You're welcome and I wish you
all the best with bars into Redemption and you'll have to
keep me updated on if you get some people to help because I
think you could do a wonderful job.
OK. Yeah, for sure.
I'll let you know. All right.
And with that, thank you so muchagain.
(47:33):
And until next time, bye.
Because the first thing they think is how can I help you?
How can I send you money? But to me, that's not the right
thing. Welcome to more than an inmate's
girlfriend. I'm your host, Jay and you guys.
This week is. Kind of a unique episode in that
(00:20):
normally we interview loved onesof those that are incarcerated.
This week we are interviewing someone who is incarcerated.
He goes by Bars and Redemption and he has come on today to
speak on prison relationships from his.
Perspective so his. Experiences and not only that,
(00:42):
but we have Big Steve from Pen Pals, dot Buzz, who has come on
today to introduce Bars and redemption and speak a little
bit about his website, but also his podcast where he interviews
people that are on his website and he gives them the
opportunity to kind of say theirstory and whatnot.
(01:03):
I love his podcast. I think it's hilarious.
I highly recommend it. So he's coming on 1st to
introduce Bars and redemption, then we'll get into Bars and
Redemptions episode before that.I wanted to let you guys know
that this Saturday May 17th at 6:30 PM Central I will be going
on TikTok Live official who is the woman that was in the past
(01:26):
two episode. She will be joining me on TikTok
live to answer any questions youmight have about her episode,
but also the podcast. It's the first time we're doing
this. I've never done a tick tock live
in my life. I don't even know how to get
there. But we'll figure it out.
So we would appreciate the love and support.
Please come hang out with us. So again, this Saturday, May
(01:48):
17th, 6:30 PM Central, mark yourcalendars, put your notification
in your phone, come hang out with us and ask any questions
that you might have. So yeah, that's it.
I am going to let you get into the episode because I don't want
to take any more of your time. So I hope you enjoy it and I
hope, hope, hope to see you on Saturday on TikTok Live.
(02:09):
Yay. Oh, and don't forget to follow
the show. And that's it.
Enjoy. Thank you so much for joining me
today. I'm so excited to finally get
the chance to talk to you. I'm excited too man.
I think we've been binging each other's podcast.
I think so. It's great to bring us both
(02:30):
together on one speaker is fantastic.
Yeah. So can you tell everybody who
you are for those that don't know, because you're right, I've
been binging. I know all about you.
Certainly. So I'm big.
Steve and I founded a website called Pen Pals dot Buzz a
couple of years ago and we also have a prison Pen Pal podcast
(02:50):
which can be found at penpalpodcast.com or on our site
at Pen Pal Stop Buzz. Yeah, I'll give you a little
background of my story and how Iended up on a prison on 2 prison
podcasts. Now, I was locked up myself for
11 years. I got out in 2018 and during
those eleven years I used every inmate services company that
(03:13):
ever advertised in prison legal news.
I mean, I had myself addressed envelopes and I signed up for
every pen pal site known to man.And ultimately I ended up
writing in those eleven years probably hundreds of people and
ended up meeting my now wife on one of the sites.
I'm not sure which one, interestingly, but through that
(03:35):
process I learned so many of thecompanies, I don't want to name
names, but the customer service was horrible.
You'd send your money and you wouldn't hear back.
Sometimes it would take a year to actually get some response
back. And a lot of times three or four
or five months was somewhat common to get any kind of
response. And when I got out at, you know,
(03:55):
I thought, you know what, I can,I want to do this better.
I want to, you know, have great customer service and have a
faster turn around and, and treat our customers like human
beings, not like inmate numbers.I mean, they just treat you like
crap, you know, when you're in there and they treat everybody
like they're trying to scam the system and trying to RIP people
off. And, and I know some do, and I
(04:18):
know, you know, you've talked about that a bit, but the
majority really don't. And, and we have a couple
thousand members who are, you know, there's a few bad ones in
the bunch, but the majority are,are decent, good people.
And so we wanted to treat them like that.
There's this misconception that a pen pal side is all about
dating and relationships, and that is for some people, but we
(04:40):
want to really focus on the friendship aspect.
Based on the studies that are out there that inmates that have
a pen pal, they're less likely to reoffend the prison
assessments that are done in theprison.
They want you to have positive social influences in your life.
And we've led to lots of marriages and romance, but I'd
say 80% are just really good friends that were bringing
(05:04):
together. And then maybe that turns into
something, maybe it doesn't. Yeah.
I love how you said that becauseI was listening to some of your
episodes. I remember this girl, I think
her name was Amy, and she had like a dozen.
She's like a marketer for a. Cannabis company and she had all
these people and she's like, I just wanted to reach out to them
and be their friend and like totally platonic and just guide
(05:25):
them and help them because she worked in cannabis and whatever
and I was like. Wow.
Yeah, and she was an intelligent, college educated
woman. She was a marketing executive.
And yeah, she wrote. A dozen inmates who all had kind
of low level marijuana charges and some of them were grossly
over sentenced for that. For an ounce of marijuana, you
(05:46):
end up with 20 years or something.
But really interesting people that you come across for sure.
Yeah. When did you actually?
Start Pen pal Dal Buzz like the site we.
Started in, let's see, I think it was around June of 2023.
So it's been just about two years.
And do you love doing it? I love it.
I love knowing how many people I'm helping and I'm helping not
(06:09):
just be incarcerated people, butI'm helping people that are in
the free world that for whateverreason in their life, they can
really benefit as well from having a pen pal inmate.
It's a hell of a lot of work though.
I think people that are out there, they think I'm just going
to set up a pen pal sign and I'll make millions of dollars
(06:30):
and it'll be easy. I mean, we're here all the time.
I mean, it's 7 at night. I'm still here and I'll probably
be here at 10 tonight, you know?So it's a lot of work.
So if anyone else that's thinking, oh, we can compete
with Big Steve, I'd suggest you don't.
It's just too much work. You'll hate it.
And where did you get the best idea ever to start a podcast and
(06:50):
interview the people that you are showcasing on your site?
Years, years, years ago, many years ago, I was a radio guy.
Back when DJs were actually DJs on the radio and things were
live and radio was fun. I don't know how old you are, if
you'd even remember those days, but we had a lot of fun on the
radio and I missed out a lot. And the last radio show I did
(07:12):
was in 2008. And I always just wanted to find
a way to combine kind of that aspect.
It was like part of my life for so many years.
And then I thought, you know what, you can see these
profiles, you can see the pictures and there's some sites
that'll play a little short videos or you see the videos on
(07:33):
TikTok or what not. But how cool is it to actually
spend 10 or 15 minutes and hear this person's story?
And I wanted to humanize these people that they're hated by so
many people in society. You go on social media, people
want inmates just all to be murdered and killed and hung and
shot and whatever, you know? And and I want to just show that
(07:56):
there's another side to everybody and there's good and a
lot of these people that you might be judging without even
hearing what they have to say. Yeah, I remember when I was
listening to one of your episodes and you're talking to
this guy who, like, killed a random woman in Connecticut.
And I was like, Oh my gosh. And then he's.
Talking and describing what happened and how he felt and all
(08:18):
the stuff. And I'm like, I would have never
messaged this person in my life.But you gave him that
opportunity to kind of like plead his case and and show his
character a little bit more. So he probably got that
increased likelihood of someone talking to him because his crime
from the outside. And and I did Google him after
to be fair. Yeah, it's quite a story, right?
(08:39):
It's quite a story. Shocked, but you really did give
him that humanity. So I really feel like this whole
thing that you're doing is really working because.
Thank you. A lot of people that are just
people and make mistakes or suffer from different things.
I hate to say it, people think even my wife, she gets on me
when I play some of these podcasts and she's like what the
hell? Because she's not.
(09:00):
She even met me on a pen pal side and she judges.
But I mean, I hate it when I'm like, yeah, this guy, he was
like very polite and respectful to me.
And it seems like a normal guy, but he stabbed a woman and on a
hiking trail or whatever. It's hard to put those two
things to to think somebody thatcould be kind, that somebody
that talks to his mother every night on the phone, goes out and
(09:23):
murders someone on a park trail.It's very what would you call?
It just messes with your mind for sure do.
You vet people or is anybody allowed that signs up for your
website? No, Everybody's allowed.
There's so much discrimination based on certain crimes and
whatnot. We never wanted to be like that,
but they pay to be on the site, so there's that part.
(09:45):
But if they want to be on the site, they can be.
We just make sure of someone saying they're in for nonviolent
drug crime and they're in for murder.
Then we just make sure we have the right information in their
profile. We don't want to mislead
anybody. A lot of people are looking for,
we have a death row section. A lot of people want to write
(10:06):
people that have maybe more serious crimes that might not
get out. Some people think that's safer
for them. They don't have to worry that
the person will get out. So yeah, we give everybody a
chance, treat everybody the same.
I don't give discounts to more solid crimes or anything like
that. Well that's good to hear.
It's funny you say that because when I messaged my husband, it
(10:28):
was purely for like, not research, but I was curious to
talk to someone who might have more time on their hands to
research things and read more and whatever.
And I was trying to look for some bigger, deeper answers of
life. And I purposely made sure it was
someone who like when I was looking on write a prisoner,
Sorry, I didn't know your site existed.
(10:49):
I made sure it was life because I was scared.
I was like, no way. Like I don't want someone to
come out and kill me. So I'm just going to make sure
that they're sentenced to life and then here I am.
That only backfires when you endup marrying that person, right?
Or you can't be. But I always just thought it
would be more interesting. I mean, if I were to write a
woman in prison, say, the letters in my mind would be so
(11:12):
much more interesting, someone with a serious crime versus a
shoplifter or someone that had marijuana.
I'd want to know what was going on in their head.
And here are some of the, you know, if I wanted to write like
a petty theft person, I could just find someone like that on,
you know, match or something. You'd be surprised how many
(11:34):
people we've interviewed that met their person on Plenty of
Fish. That's crazy.
I bet, yeah. So the person that you're
introducing today and the reasonwhy we had you on was we
actually met you through a individual who is currently
incarcerated. So can you talk to me a little
bit about Louis and how you met him?
(11:54):
Yeah, Louis, he found our website and messaged us and
wanted to join the site. He actually was one of our last
lifetime members. We had a pretty sweet deal where
you could join for lifetime for a good price and he started
talking to us, wanted to be on the podcast, wanted to help us.
(12:16):
And when we first started talking, the first thing that
jumped out about him was he justhad such a better attitude than
most of the people we work with.He didn't play the victim.
He was always looking forward and thinking positive.
We talked, we got him on the podcast.
He's written a few really great blogs on our site as well and
(12:40):
once called How to Support Someone in Prison Tips for
meaningful communication. They're not just what you'd
expect, where it would be like an inmate writing how to support
me, send me commissary, send me money.
It was almost the person on the streets perspective.
He did a really good job balancing the pros and cons of
(13:00):
all of it. We added him to the site within
like a month he had 39 messages,became just through our site and
I know other people messaged himdirectly or wrote to him snail
mail or what not, so I know he got a lot of people.
His profile is amazing, his pictures are great, like
everything. I thought he was just a genuine
(13:21):
guy and we've kept in touch. It's been about six months I
think since he joined. Oh.
Wow, I love it because he was one of the first people probably
that I spoke to that was currently incarcerated.
And he gave such a different perspective.
Like you said, I remember and people will hear his interview
after we speak to you, but he was so insightful.
(13:44):
He was so thoughtful when he spoke.
I remember asking him about likewhere he learned everything that
he learned. And it's like books and he said
books and he recognized, you know, that there was more to
life and you needed to grow to be the next person.
And he was just super, super honest and I find he really
helps to try and break that stigma of people that are
(14:07):
incarcerated, like you said, being scammers or have negative
intentions. Yeah, no, I was really
surprised. And it's funny you mentioned
books because he mentioned that for all the years he's been
locked up, he's used a lot of the books to prisoners programs
that are out there. And it just read tons of things
and said he actually and met someone that turned into a pen
(14:29):
pal that used to be a volunteer at one of those books to
prisoner sites. I thought that was great.
They were just friends or what not.
But he really has a different perspective.
He genuinely wants inmates to succeed, not fail.
And just saying things like sendthem the gift of knowledge.
Don't just send love letters. You know, they don't need so
(14:50):
many love letters and so much negativity.
Just keep it real, keep him motivated, don't play into the
pity party, that type of stuff that I think so many people tend
to. Oh, I'm so sorry that happened.
That's so awful, you know? But focus on moving forward
instead of backwards. Yeah, yeah.
And I love also how he loves to connect people.
(15:11):
He's just always so like, hey, Isaw this person, you might want
to do this or whatever. He's just always just so
helpful. And do you know how there's so
much competition in the world? And like people, you know, he
doesn't have that. And I think that's just
personality growth, but it also just shows just how there are
really good people that are behind bars and a lot of people
(15:33):
just automatically go to negative.
And here's this guy that I've never even met, lives in a
different state, and he's tryingto help us promote our podcast
and he's trying to connect us with all these people.
And he's trying to give us all these great ideas.
And it's constantly doing that, you know, and it's genuine.
Like he's not trying to get anything from us.
He's never asked. He's never like, it's just so
just genuinely, I want to help you and I believe in you, you
(15:54):
know? Yeah, at first I hadn't known
him as well. And like the first day he
messages us, he was volunteeringto take over all of our social
media and run our Instagram and our Facebook.
And I'm thinking like, man, thiswould be great, but I don't know
this guy, you know, but but now that I do, I'm like, maybe we
could do that because he just wanted to help us and I guess
(16:15):
help you and help everybody. I really appreciated that.
And just total gentleman, I meanpolite, which sometimes we don't
always run into in our line of work.
I think you more than me, but. Why That's always Why didn't I
get any messages? Why are you scamming me?
(16:37):
Oh no, that's true. That would happen.
You guys must be a scam. You know, a lot of people just
assume they're going to get scammed.
I think because of how a lot of these companies treat people in
prison, we're good, we're honest.
So where do you go from here? I mean, you've got the website,
you've got the podcast. Do you have any other future
plans or is this what you're focused on right now?
(17:00):
This is what we're focused on right now.
We had a site called Inmate Blogger, which we're kind of
winding down. It was an amazing site.
It's still out there, inmateblogger.com, but it's
just, it was too much work and we were not really able to focus
on the pen pal side as much as we needed to.
So we're focused on this. We want to just keep growing.
(17:21):
At some point, we would love to find a way to interlink pen Pal
Stop Buzz with the J Pays and securities of the world so that
messages can be more easily sentand received.
That's a struggle for a lot of people, and some of these
systems are pretty rough. So we're just trying to work
with some of these companies andmaybe come up with a way to
(17:44):
facilitate that communication, make it easier for everybody.
Awesome. And can you give us again what
the site is called? And if someone wanted to sign up
their friend who's incarcerated,what do they do?
So pen pals dot Buzz, which is BUZZ and if they would like to
sign up, they can order on our website.
(18:05):
There's a link at the top that says add an inmate and we have a
couple different pricing plans that starts at $45.00 for a
year. They can also order by phone,
8882 pen pal. That's our number.
Or we have other options too. They can e-mail help at Pen pals
dot buzz and then we can talk about Venmo or other options for
(18:28):
payment. That's awesome.
And that's during the week. Is it like during business
hours? Yeah, so we're here 5:50 Pacific
Time Monday through Friday. Awesome.
And then I'm checking e-mail allthe time too, so they can e-mail
me at 3:00 in the morning. My wife doesn't like that But
but. And if someone wanted to come on
(18:49):
the podcast and talk to you, hassomething interesting that
they'd like to pitch you, do they use that same?
Contact Yeah, it would be great.It's always great to have new
guests, new people. So if you can e-mail either that
help address or podcast at pen pals dot Buzz will go right to
me and yeah, and I'd love that. Just tell me your story and
let's get you on, man. Let's Share your story with all
(19:09):
five of our listeners. As I started this podcast in
November, whatever I've gone away from like the podcast that
a million people listen to, likeI'm trying to support local type
thing. And.
When you find a good one, you really stick to it because
you're like, oh like that's awesome and you want to support
(19:29):
them. And I got to say, you're in my
top right now. I just can't stop laughing.
I can't stop laughing. I was just listening to 1 and I
am like, I have to tell my husband about like how to melt
cheese properly. Like it was someone you
interviewed who was talking about her cookbook.
And I was like, Oh my gosh, she's throwing out some tips so.
(19:51):
Yeah, she was great. Fury, what was her name?
Paris was her real name. She was great.
Yeah. Yeah, that was a fun one.
Yeah. I was going to go melt some
cheese and cook some food that night.
I mean, call it the Prison Pen Pal podcast, but.
Anything that can loosely relateto prison and pen pals, it all
(20:13):
ties in kind of to the grand experience of it.
Yeah, I love it. I highly recommend it and I'm
thoroughly enjoying myself. So I really hope you keep it up
and I really look forward to hearing about more people that
are incarcerated in their stories because it really is eye
opening so and you are so good at.
Thank you so much. That's why you're making me
(20:34):
blessed, Jay. Well, thank you so much for
coming on and introducing Luis alittle bit.
I appreciate your time so much and.
You bet. Great talking to you.
Yeah, you too. Take care.
Welcome, Bars and Redemption. So thank you, Bars and
(20:55):
Redemption, for coming and joining me today.
Thank you for having me. I just want to jump right in.
Let's talk a little bit about you.
If you want to just introduce yourself a little bit and who
you are. What can I say about being,
well, I'm just somebody that's been incarcerated since I was
18. I am now turning 32 on March.
I still got about another 15 more years to do.
(21:17):
Maybe 13 with your time. Wow.
Yeah. Is it your first present number?
My first actually felony as an adult.
I've done juvenile time before, but this is actually the one
that really hit me. We didn't really talk about this
and I'm just genuinely curious and you don't have to answer,
but what was that like receivingsuch a long sentence at such a
young age? Well, you know, at that age, you
(21:37):
don't really care. Yeah.
You're so wild and living your own life that you don't really
pay attention to the consequences of what you're
doing until it's too late. It didn't really sink in when
you were 18. Yeah, it didn't sink in.
Maybe because seven years later,right?
And then you started on this kind of different journey, you'd
say like 7 years in or was it more recent than that?
(21:59):
I started my awakening, I'm gonna call it, in 2020.
That's really when I actually sit down because I was in the
maximum security, so 24 hours a day, locked in by myself.
And that's when I began reading and learning about people's
lives. And I was like, man, I want
that. And I just kind of woke myself
that I could do better and be better than what I was doing.
(22:21):
Yeah, my fiance had a similar kind of experience to you, so
that's why I'm asking these kinds of questions.
I find it really fascinating. And he says very similar things
to you where he just woke up oneday and was I don't want to be
doing the things that I'm doing.He has this whole passion of
reform starts with us and how the people inside that are
currently serving sentences needto work on themselves and better
(22:43):
themselves so that they're takenmore seriously by society.
Yeah, some people just need the time to see what they're doing
and how it's affecting their life and how they could do
something to change it and become better.
This is kind of weird, but do you ever regret it?
Do you ever have moments where you're like, I wish I wasn't on
this different path than I was when I was a kid?
That's a good question. You know, something that a lot
(23:04):
of people have asked me before. Honestly, I don't think I'll be
the person that I am without this sentence.
This amount of time is what madeyou who you are.
Yes, being able to have the timeto actually sit down and learn
things and experience and have visions and goals and all that,
because who know where I'd be ifI was still out there.
Right. Did you have any mentors in
(23:26):
there? The book, really the books are
my mentors. Wow.
Are you open to talking a littlebit about what you were charged
with? Why you got such a long
sentence? Yeah, I was charged with second
degree murder, which was actually something that played
out too, because I was totally charged with first degree.
But you know, with fighting the case and going to court, I
actually got to drop the second degree and I played out.
(23:47):
I actually played out to 30 years to avoid a license because
that's what I was looking to give me.
Did you make that decision on your own or was your family
involved? I think that that was my only
option I had and I had to take it.
It was either take it that week or go to trial because my trial
was already set to start and everything.
And since you've been in prison and you're on this journey of
(24:09):
growth and learning and experience all these different
things, what would you say so far has been the most valuable
piece of advice you've gotten? That mine is free even when the
body isn't. I love that.
Did you read that? Believe I read that in a book
called or Think and Grow Rich byNapoleon Hill.
I'm in the middle of reading that.
I haven't finished it yet but I started it months ago.
(24:30):
There's something that was interesting in that book because
that book talks about people in prison and they talked about how
a woman could change a man's mentality and way of seeing
things, too. And do you believe that?
Yes, I believe that the man has a goal and something to look
forward to. Maybe then, yes, he could go out
there and be something different.
When you were incarcerated, wereyou with?
Someone at the time. Yes, I was actually dating the
(24:52):
mother of my son at that time. We were actually together for
like 5 months when I got picked up, she was actually two months
pregnant. So I kind of had my kid being
locked up and I was with her fora little bit over a year at
first. But then, you know, after my
life, after I plead out to my sentence, just told her to go
home with her life because therewas life with me.
(25:13):
That must have been a really hard decision to make.
Yeah, it was a lot of anger, a lot of emotion.
Yeah, and how did she react? Was she upset about it?
Oh yeah, she was devastated. She didn't want to see it the
way I saw it at first, but laterin life she kind of just went
her way and started her own family and started her own life.
After that, at what point were you like, huh, maybe I do want
(25:35):
to look into those prison relationships.
Maybe I do want a female in my life.
I ain't going a lot. I just did this last year.
No way. I just joined Pen Pal for that
Buzz and Write a prisoner actually, and from there, that's
when I started trying to look for something different.
Maybe now that I'm halfway through my sentence, maybe now I
feel differently because I don'tsee it as that long.
After your son's mother, you didn't date anyone else until
(25:58):
last year, Yes. Wow.
I've been really just involved in me focus on my own personal
growth. And you never really thought
about it until last year. And you just thought about it
because your sentence, you're halfway down at this point.
Well, I mean, you get lonely sometimes and stuff like that,
but I just didn't see myself being fit for one.
I didn't see myself being able to control my emotions and I see
(26:22):
being able to actually be fit for one until recently.
Are the guys around you, are they similar to you or are you
kind of unique in that way that you were single for so long?
I mean, everybody has different sentences.
I think guys that have life sentences with, you know, wives
and stuff and I think guys that are going to go home in the next
year and have nobody. So it's kind of give or take of
(26:43):
who it is and what they want outof life.
Right. And when you signed yourself up
last year on these two sites, what was your goal?
Like what were you looking for? Were you looking for a short
term? Were you looking for a long term
partner? Like what were you thinking when
you put yourself in that vulnerable position?
I was really just looking to meet people, telling my story,
hopefully help them because you know, one of my goals is to
(27:05):
become a coach. I thought it more as a
professional way. I didn't expect nobody to just
start seeing me that way. Sometimes things work out.
What was it like when you post to yourself?
Were you nervous? Yes.
I'm not going to like because I didn't know what the response
was going to be. I didn't know how people see me.
And what was it like? I got a lot of responses.
(27:26):
I'm not going to lie, I got a lot of responses, but honestly,
being somebody so much, I becamevery picky now.
Like I'm very, very picky of whoI give my time to who I thought,
you know, I got a few goals, visions and stuff like that
because I can't just be with somebody that have no visions or
no goals in their lives. Right.
Did you find it difficult when you first started?
(27:48):
Yes, this is a very difficult thing.
And I guess everyone's going to be wondering, did you have any
level of success yet? Yeah, I have met a few people,
had a few conversations. A lot of women I have met
through those websites, so because they're lonely and
because like pretty much they run out of options out there,
which is crazy to me. You know what?
Pause for a minute. The men that are in the real
(28:11):
world, outside, there's just so many not good ones.
I don't know. Yeah, I mean, I've been with my
fiance now for a year and he actually has a life sentence and
it's not anything that I anticipated doing or having in
my life. I think he relates to you
because he's really well read. That's how we connected.
We start. Reading books together, it
developed into something more, but at the beginning that was
(28:33):
just not at all what I was looking for was a relationship,
and nobody that I know really can relate to the level of
respect. And appreciation that he has for
me. We learned to appreciate people
in here, you know, because out there we take a lot of things
for granted. I agree, and there's not as much
distraction. I find you're not out doing all
these things and stressed out and whatnot.
(28:53):
How did you kind of weed out people?
Did you ask certain questions? Did you come up with strategy or
you just could feel what they were like and just thought they
weren't connected to you? Yeah, I just asked a lot of
questions and read a lot of response.
To me it's more about the response, not on exactly what
they say, but how they say it. Is there someone that you've
established and had the most meaningful connection with I
(29:14):
could? Say I did, I had a few people
that I actually I'm very friendly with nowadays and
hopefully when I get out I'm still friendly with them.
I don't know without relationship will go, but
there's a lot of people that I learned that there's good people
out there and I got a good heartand a good mind.
Sometimes they just need a friend who's different and who
wants to send them and who just listens.
(29:35):
Yeah. Were you worried at all about
your charge when you were talking to them?
No, I always been very peaceful with my life.
To me, that's just a mistake I made in my life, is a chapter of
my life and I'm happy to share it with people and hopefully
they could learn something from it.
If you ever were in a serious relationship, if you did get
into it, would you think about deactivating those profiles?
(29:58):
And the reason I ask is AJ and Idisagree on this.
His friends, even inside, they'dbe like, why does Jay not care?
Why is Jay letting you just do that?
That's so weird because Jay's just looking for a reason to
leave me, you know, like Jay's like, so it's like a running
joke. I'm also really a secure person,
but there's not a lot of people that are that secure.
(30:20):
So if that conversation came up,how do you feel about having
that profile? That's a good one.
You know, believe that the relationship is serious.
Yeah, why not take it down? But at the same time, a paper
website is not just to look for love, it's to look for more than
that. It's a good place to network.
Pretty much is the only place tonetwork for a lot of people
because not everybody have way of communication and sometimes
(30:43):
they just may be looking for somebody to help them with their
case or want to get closer to God or anything.
So it could be different goals. Now I understand if it's
profiles say something about looking for specific type of
women or something, then yeah, you should at least change the
information on it. But that's something you really
need to talk to your partner about and discuss really in
details how it could help and how it could you know.
(31:05):
Do you think it's possible, in your opinion, to have a
monogamous, committed relationship with someone that
you met while incarcerated through those sites?
Yeah, I think anything is possible.
And what do you think are some of the most important aspects of
that relationship for you? Loyalty and loyalty is more than
love to me. Loyalty is everything.
(31:27):
So it's just really just being honest with that person and
telling them exactly what your goal is and don't try to
sugarcoat nothing or hide nothing from them.
And how do you feel about trust?Do you think that you'd have
struggled with trusting someone on the outside that you've only
met while you were incarcerated?You didn't know from before.
I mean, no, I think when you start meeting the persons, you
(31:47):
started seeing how they are, reading them, understanding
them. I don't think you should start
by not trusting somebody becausethat right there, you're
starting already on the negativeside.
Now, if the person gives you a lot of reasons for you not to
trust them and there you go. But don't ever start with just
saying I don't trust nobody. So you trust them a little bit
before. Yeah, I will learn about them,
(32:09):
read them, understand how they think, how they move.
I don't know where you are. There are certain states that
are more scammy, for lack of better word than others, where
the men are more inclined to be dating these women or finding
these women so that they can buythem stuff and help them with
stuff. Have you seen that around you?
Like I said, I thought it reallydepends on the individual
(32:31):
because there's ways to survive in here, there's ways to
actually help out there, there'sactually ways to move together,
think together and maybe start businesses and things.
So your future could be a lot better.
Depends on the individual or howhe thinks and how he moves.
If you could give some women advice that interested maybe in
going on right a prisoner or trying to learn about someone
(32:55):
who's currently incarcerated, isthere any advice that you would
give to them? Yes, it's actually article I
wrote about that. Oh really?
Where? It's on the blog on pen Pal,
that buzz. OK, to me, it's actually about
just not sugar coating nothing and just being upfront with what
you want, what your goal is. And hopefully the guys in the
(33:16):
good mental state that gives youthe same energy back because I'm
not gonna let not everybody's onthe same energy.
So what was that website again? Just for people that are curious
in reading the article you wrote.
Pen pal that buzz. On that note, have you ever had
any kind of negative experienceswith a pen pal?
Not in that way. Like everything.
There's a lot of women that write and I don't know where
they just stop writing for whatever reason.
(33:37):
But I don't take it personal andI don't see it as a negative
thing. You know, maybe they had their
reasons or maybe they found something that's not what they
want. So you just had ghosting?
Yes, For me personally, just given the situation and our
circumstances, we were just pen pals for a very long time.
We only talked on the phone after four or five months.
In your opinion, do you think that people should get on the
(33:59):
phone right away? Do you want to talk to them
right away? Do you want to be pen pals with
them right away? What do you think is better that
circumstance to get to know someone?
I think a letter is more personal.
That's a lot more personal. You get to take your time, read
it, and it's good to actually learn to meet somebody through
those letters before you get on the phone call because by the
time you get on the phone call, you can actually see if those
(34:20):
words match with voice. It's funny you say that because
my fiance was saying in one of his experiences, he said that
talking to someone on messaging and then when he talked to them
on the phone, they were completely different.
And he's like this person that was portrayed a certain way,
portrayed themselves a certain way on messenger, on the phone.
They just were completely different.
(34:42):
And he kind of felt not fooled, but he was surprised at how
different they were on the phone.
Yes. So that's why I think it's
better to I want to take take that I would do four months,
three months, you know write letters because the letters
takes a minute to get there anyway.
So you could change at least 5-6letters before you get on the
phone call. Have you had that experience?
We've called them. Personally, I don't get nervous
(35:04):
or shy. I'm an open person and you know,
like I said, I'm trying to be a coach when I get out, so I'm
trying to work on public speaking and all that stuff so.
What kind of coach do you want to be?
Relationship Coach. Oh, what made you want to do
that? That's mostly what I read.
I read a lot of books like Men Not for Mars, Women Not for
Beingness and The Fight Love languages and stuff like that.
(35:26):
So those books got me really seeing how relationships could
become better. And have you practiced yet?
Yes, so I have helped a couple of guys here write letters and
become better. I let them borrow a couple books
so they could actually better their relationship, understand
women better, how to deal with that toxic part sometimes,
(35:48):
right? Sometimes.
How does it feel? That must be a cool feeling when
you help someone like that. Yeah, yeah, it's a different
feeling. It makes you feel like you gave
it back to society. Absolutely.
So do you want to talk to me a little bit more about bars and
redemption? Is that what it's about?
Yes, at first I started as a wayto just show people what prison
(36:09):
is like, but I ended up moving to something that is beyond
back. And now it's more focused on
relationships and coaching. Well, right now I'm trying to
show people what prison life is a little like.
And I'm trying to teach guys in here how to help financially by
themselves. You know, little things like
setting up stores where they canactually sell their commissary
for a little money. You know, help the guys that
(36:31):
don't have ways to get their money put in their books, but
their family wants to help them somehow.
I haven't really focused on my on relationships because I
haven't really I put a plan on how to do it, but I'm working on
that. That's my next step though.
Cool, where did you come up withthe name bars and Redemption?
That's a good question. I was really just going to name
it Redemption, but I had to fix it where we come from and the
(36:54):
only thing that people could think of prison is bars.
So I had to just add the word bars.
That makes sense though, and when you're elaborating on this
relationship coaching, are you focusing on guys that are
inside, or are you also wanting to coach women who are looking
to be better in their relationships?
Well, that relationship part is more for women out there, how to
(37:15):
understand those and how to helpwas because the first thing they
think is how can I help you? How can I send you money?
But to me, that's not the right thing.
The right thing is how can I help you?
What book do you need that you actually need in your life?
For what do you want to do in your life that I could help you
become that person? I love that.
And if a woman came to you and was worried about her
relationship, or she felt that he was being sneaky or she
(37:38):
wasn't sure what was going on, she was disconnected from him
and he was on the inside. What would you recommend for
her? Well, understand him first
because man, sometimes they justgo in their cave and sometimes
they just need a moment to come out and you can't just baby them
because if you baby them, you just going to push them into The
Cave even more deeper. So sometimes you just got to let
(37:58):
them come out of their cave. Understand why was there being
different or how are they being different and help them by just
let them feed them. So would you say like give them
space? I want to say give them space,
but learn to understand how he is right.
That's the man. Because men are different than
women in a lot of ways. So I know women sometimes when
(38:19):
they have a problem that what they want to do is talk about it
and then the opposite will actually shut down about it.
Yeah, that's true. So you were mentioning about
like babying them. So would you say not to send
money or what do you mean by babying?
Yeah, I mean, like sometimes a woman just got to go hard and
(38:40):
they want to help, but they don't know how to help.
And the first thing they think is like, oh, let me sing him 50.
Let me help him that way. But to me that's not really
helping a man because a man needs more than money just to be
helped. Sometimes he needs guidance,
Sometimes he need. And he ain't going to tell you.
He would never tell you that because we are proud people.
We are very close people. They don't like to be like, oh,
(39:00):
we ain't what? Yeah, I find it hard sometimes
to be vulnerable. Like I feel like you guys are in
such a hard environment that being emotional and being
vulnerable in your relationship.I feel like it's kind of hard
sometimes for women to get theirmen to open up.
Do you have any advice for them on how to get you out of your
(39:21):
shell and be more vulnerable, bemore open?
That's something that it's very hard because men are not going
to open up to a woman like that,even though they love her.
That's her life, that's her wife.
They've been dating for years. I mean, it's going to be hard
for us to open because we're notused to that.
We open up to somebody means that we're not doing our job and
(39:41):
we don't know how to do our job and we need help.
And sometimes we don't like thatbecause like I said, we proud
people. So we are the opposite of just
talking about our problems. So it's like a sign of weakness
for you guys. Yes I would write a woman.
Just understand them. Don't push him too hard.
Don't ask too many questions. If he's going through it, let
(40:03):
him go through it on his own. He will eventually come out of
it and tell you. If he doesn't tell you, then
eventually he will tell you. Fair.
And something else that I also found really interesting is that
because it's a different dynamic, like I don't know how
you find it, but for me being inthis type of relationship,
(40:23):
because he's in prison, he can'tdo things that I'm used to, like
going out and Take Me Out for dinner or like taking the snow
off my car or whatever. And those things that really
make you masculine and make you like the provider and all those
quote UN quote generic type masculine roles that people have
(40:44):
in relationship. And it's kind of not really
possible in a a lot of ways whenyour man is incarcerated.
How do you create that dynamic so that the person who's inside
can still feel masculine, can still feel like he's the
provider or he's the leader? What do you think about that?
Sometimes it's hard because we in here, we can't help y'all and
(41:06):
our thoughts go crazy sometimes.But if you could find a way for
him to become a provider, some type of way, it could be
something small. I don't have to be something big
that will actually fill him up. It wouldn't fill him up all the
way, but he would fill him up a little bit.
So like help him with a side hustle or something?
Yes, yes. Something.
(41:27):
You know, if he knows how to draw, help him to start his own
website where he could make at least a few hundreds a month or
something to help you with the bills or whatever, or anything
that makes you feel like he's given to your life.
So where do you see this bars and redemption going in the next
few years? What's your vision of where it's
going to? Go hopefully I could get some
(41:48):
books out there for y'all and become kind of bigger on the way
of views and stuff so I could help more people.
I haven't really thought of it on the long term, but on the
next five years, like you said, that's those are momentum.
You know, I hopefully I could get at least two books out
there, one for women and one forthe guys inside, and then
(42:08):
hopefully I could get some type of clients I could work with and
actually help them become betterin their relationship.
And if there was one thing that you would want women to
understand about guys that are incarcerated, what do you think
that you would want us to know that you don't think we would
know? And here we go through a lot of
emotions, and here we go througha lot of anger, a lot of
(42:31):
happiness. Happiness, I mean, the emotions
are everywhere in here and we'renot really they emotional
creatures. Yeah.
So sometimes you just got to understand that he's not going
to be his best self every time. Sometimes he's going to be
completely different. And if you really love this
person, you going to understand them when he is and you going to
(42:52):
learn how to deal with that sideof him until he's able to
actually be back out there and be next to you.
And do you think that that changes when a man is in a
relationship versus when he's not in there?
Do you see changes in them? Like do you find that you change
or the guys around you when theystart dating someone new?
Like how does it affect their life positively?
(43:13):
Oh, yeah, You know, guys, Guys in relationships don't want to
get in trouble because they don't want to lose that visit.
They don't want to lose those phone calls.
Guys in relationships are less likely to get in trouble with
other guys in here that are not in a relationship.
Interesting. So I think you're going to like
this question. How do you feel about the states
(43:36):
that have conjugals versus the states that don't?
How do you think that it would make a difference in your life
if you guys had the ability to have conjugal visits?
I think that would be very helpful for everybody.
Really. I wish every state had them
because that actually gives you the knowledge to learn how to
deal with it as a family man, how to be a family man.
(43:56):
It will actually train you to deal with things, being able to
be with your significant other on the weekend or anything or
even a day. And the violence, I think the
violence will go down automatically because who will
want to lose that? Who will want to be with their
family on the weekend? You know a. 100% I've always
wondered about that. My significant other is not in a
(44:17):
state with conjugals, but like California, for example, is
always like the one that everybody knows about and talks
about. And I've always wondered because
I've heard California prisons are quite dangerous and there's
a lot and whatever, but then at the same time they have
conjugal. So I've always wondered if it
actually does affect the violence in there.
Compared to other states, I believe they do.
I believe, yeah. I mean, every person is
(44:38):
dangerous at the end of the day.But if you really compare it to
other states that don't have conjugal physics, you're going
to see that they're less violentthan other states actually.
And I would really be curious about your input on women, men
that are dating men that maybe are not on the right track and
(44:58):
they're trying to help them be on the right track.
Oftentimes, like you see stuff in groups and whatnot of like,
oh, my mom went to the hole or he's fighting or he's doing all
these things. What advice would you give them
to try and help them guide theirman in the right direction?
Is there something that we can do from the outside, or do you
really feel that it's a totally personal thing for these guys to
(45:21):
want to change? Yeah, I think it's a personal
thing. You know, you can't help what
doesn't want to help what doesn't want to be open.
You can't really change a person.
As much as we would like to. We can't change nobody.
Yeah, you're right. So you think that there's really
nothing we could do? Yeah, sometimes you just got to
give them that tough love and hopefully they see it before
it's just too late. Is there anything else that you
(45:45):
want to share about bars and redemption and what you're doing
and who you are? I think that you have a lot of
really good insights and I thinkyou've grown a lot in probably
the years from what you said. Who I'm talking to right now is
probably very different from the18 year old you.
Oh. Yeah.
Is there anything else you want to share about either bars and
(46:05):
redemption or yourself? Or any pain, if anybody, the
ones that look at my work, they could just go to my Instagram
and just buy bars and redemptionand really everything.
And I tear and there's a little bit of me personal books, you
know, life inside, tips, quotes,anything.
So mainly that's where you'll see a lot of me in there.
Nice. And are you open to having women
(46:29):
reach out to you through there if they are looking to maybe get
some coaching? Yes, I am open.
They could come and contact me, let me know the type of problems
they having and I'll be happy tohelp.
It's very nice of you. So for everyone out there who's
listening right now, if you are currently having some
relationship issues and need some advice and would like to
(46:51):
have some coaching services by Bars and Redemption, as he said,
feel free to reach out to him onInstagram and your handles at
Bars and Redemption. He did.
All right. Well, thank you so much.
I appreciate your time. I appreciate you taking the time
to talk to me and kind of give that opposite perspective.
I think it's really important. Yeah, it was.
(47:11):
Fun. Yeah, we don't get to do it a
lot. So I appreciate you connecting
with us. I'm sure it was a lot of fun and
thank you for having me. You're welcome and I wish you
all the best with bars into Redemption and you'll have to
keep me updated on if you get some people to help because I
think you could do a wonderful job.
OK. Yeah, for sure.
I'll let you know. All right.
And with that, thank you so muchagain.
(47:33):
And until next time, bye.
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