June 5, 2025 • 41 mins
This episode opens with Jae in full truth mode- raw, frustrated and heartbroken. The prison system continues to block her from seeing her husband, Nicholas Ely, without cause. They're labelling her a "threat" and have gone so far as to forge Nick's signature on documents to cover for themselves (yes there's proof), to lying about why they couldn't be married on Christmas and yet she's labelled the problem here? Jae's had enough- and she's not staying silent any longer.
Then we shift to the real episode today- Ashley's story! This superstar mother comes on today to speak about her beautiful pregnancy that was tainted when her loved one was incarcerated before she was able to give birth to their son. She gave birth alone. Has held down the home with multiple children and still somehow manages to balance school and work at the same time, all the while keeping the love alive with a man who hadn't held his son. Together, they've built a bond that defies bars and space- nurturing connection through phone calls, photos, letters, and the kind of love that refuses to give up.
If you're a woman, a mother, holding it down while your loved one is serving time, you are not alone and there are men that, despite their circumstances or mistakes they may have made in the past, continue to be the best father they can be from the cage they are stuck in.
This is what real strength looks like.
Follow us on TikTok @morethaninmatesgf
Follow us on Instagram @podcast_prisongf
Please like and follow the podcast to continue to build our voices <3
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
He called me and it was right after the purchase.
Then I said by the way your son is beautiful.
I could tell if he almost started crying on the phone.
He said please tell him I love him and then I miss him and I
can't wait to see him. Welcome to more than an inmate's
girlfriend. I'm your host, Jay.
And this week before we get in the episode, I'm having a day
(00:24):
incoming rent. I'm sorry in advance, but it's
getting to me. It is very much getting to me.
How does a prison label you as athreat to the safety and
security of the building or whatever, but not give you any
reason? Literally, like, how do they get
away with it? But they do.
But how? They've taken away our access
(00:47):
for quite some time now. And for a while, I was just
like, whatever, you know what? I've adjusted.
I'm really busy and I'm a big believer and everything happens
for a reason. And this is what's supposed to
be happening. But when it starts to affect my
husband's mental health, I'm notOK with it anymore.
And it got to that point where it was enough.
Enough is enough. You've had your time, your ego
(01:07):
is filled. You've gotten your little kick.
Now it's time to move on. There's other things that are
happening. This podcast isn't going
anywhere. I'm not doing anything wrong by
publishing it or whatever the word is.
I'm not doing anything wrong. I'm not doing anything wrong by
publishing his book. So let's move on, you know?
But no, they can't do that. I got this BS e-mail today and I
(01:31):
was mad. I was mad my mother and Nick's
mother got it from me because I was so angry that you could just
blanket statement when there areactual threats.
I on the other hand, if not one of them.
So I don't know, and I don't know who Nick pissed off enough
to take it to this level, but heobviously ticked someone off on
(01:54):
a very serious level that it's getting out of hand.
It's literally getting out of hand.
Move on to the next person. You know?
I'm so over being told that I'm something I'm not.
It's like gaslighting to the next level.
It's shocking. And most people just take it,
(02:15):
right? Like they just roll over kind of
because that's what we're used to doing.
That's what most of us are used to doing because what can we do?
They're this big organization. They're this beast of an
organization that just does whatever they want.
And it's so counter rehabilitative.
It's so counter rehabilitative and you know, when I first met
Nick and we were talking to her friends or whatever, I was so
(02:37):
pro administration when everything's would happen and he
would complain about it. Be like, they're just doing
their job. They're just trying to make sure
everything's safe. They're just trying to make sure
you're safe. They're just trying to do this.
It's cool. Like let them, you have nothing
to hide. It's OK, you're turning a new
leaf. You have nothing to hide
anymore. Like let them do it, let them
think, let them whatever. But then when they go and do
something like this and continuously not give reasons,
(03:00):
it makes it more suspicious. You're supposed to be this
institution of integrity, Nebraska corrections.
So you're supposed to be right. Like you're all pro
rehabilitative. But I've literally witnessed you
keep babies away from their parents under the rule of like
safety. A baby, you know, and they just
keep doing it and they just keepgetting away with it.
(03:22):
Eventually something's got to give, right?
And eventually people aren't going to just sit there and say
OK. And I think it's important that
we use the voices that we have to communicate when injustices
are being done against families.You want to claim
rehabilitation, but yet the things that they're doing, and I
could elaborate so much more andI'm trying really hard not to,
(03:43):
but some of the things that theyhave gotten away with doing and
what they're currently doing to these guys is insane.
And then they just want to labelthem as like these horrible
humans, right? Like I've literally seen emails
where they basically call these guys monsters.
Nick hasn't had a write up in almost two years.
And then conveniently, he got wrote up when he appealed the
decision for him being classified the way he's
(04:05):
classified, because he hasn't gotten right up in forever.
They've forged documents saying that he signed something that he
never signed because they made amistake.
So they like lied, full on lied.Like it really happened.
You guys. It's crazy.
And I want to elaborate more. And the lawsuit hasn't been
filed yet. And once it's filed, I may or
(04:26):
may not speak on it a little bitmore.
And a lot of you might be sayinglike, you know, and even AJ, God
love her. She's the greatest, but she'll
be like, you know, calm it down or like, don't say anything or
don't do this or don't do that. And I'm like, no, I will never
be that person that's just goingto say, yeah, OK, I'm going to
be hush, hush or I'm not going to speak my mind.
I'm not going to tell the truth because I'm afraid of what's
(04:48):
going to happen. And if speaking out is what
needs to happen for people to beheld accountable, you want our
guys and our women that are incarcerated to be held
accountable for their actions, but you don't want to be held
accountable for yours. And I'm just supposed to take an
e-mail that says, I swear it wasn't punitive or I promise
that the right actions were taken and the process was
(05:11):
reviewed properly. Oh, yeah.
OK. I'm going to believe this person
that I don't even know. It's the first time she's ever
emailed me. I'm supposed to believe you when
you have case managers that are telling my husband that he needs
to leave me for him to be considered for anything else or
to advance in any way. That's what your administration
is saying. Like that's what's happening
(05:32):
because what I give him the freedom of expression to publish
a book. Wow, what a shame.
And the lack of communication completely.
They just don't communicate. It's crazy because I've heard of
people losing visitation for certain reasons and they lose it
for a set amount of time. And these are actual reasons.
Like they're real, actually did something they shouldn't have
and they are being held responsible for it.
(05:53):
Fair. They did something they
shouldn't have. I've never done anything like at
all. This doesn't make any sense.
And then you want to blanket it for the safety and security and
like, I wish you guys could readthat e-mail.
They really need to protect themselves from little old me.
Never even gotten a speeding ticket before, but I am to be
watched. Let me tell you not not you guys
(06:15):
know it. I know it.
We all know it. Elephant in the room, everybody.
She's not actually a threat. You're dragging it out more than
you really need to. And now I'm annoyed and maybe
they're going to keep winning and they're going to keep
wedding, but eventually they're not because eventually this
community is going to grow and we are growing.
And maybe we're only at a couplethousand listens a month, but
(06:35):
you know, hearing from someone last week from Australia saying
like, I hope you and Nick end uptogether, wow.
Like it's crazy getting messageslike I really needed to hear
this podcast. Thank you for making it.
And so many of us are women. I'm sure there's men too, but so
many of us are women and women have power, like we really do.
And maybe I'm going to lose consistently and maybe you guys
(06:59):
are going to watch me lose consistently.
And I'm going to be open and honest about how we're handling
it with Nebraska Corrections andhow Nick is really trying to
stay positive and stay on track and be a good person and not do
anything that he shouldn't do. And really trying to do the
right thing here and really growand mature and learn and
(07:22):
continue to learn. And then to be beat down
continuously. Like I'll give you some
examples. So he published the book, right,
The Prisoner Manifesto, and that's what started everything.
Now he wrote another book he sent out to the prisons
administration or whatever, saying like, hey, who do I have
to give this book to get it approved so that I can publish
it because you freaked out last time.
(07:42):
So I want to give it to you so that you can tell me if it's OK,
so that I can publish it. And then it took forever to get
a response. And then when he got the
response, finally it said, you don't need our permission to
publish a book, but none of whatyou write will ever enter this
facility. We can count so many people that
are currently incarcerated in the Nebraska Department of
(08:03):
Corrections that have their books and are holding them in
their hands. So many people that have written
their own books and published them and then got, but then they
write a kite to Nick. A kite is like a note.
I don't know how to describe it.For those of you that are not in
the system. Basically like a note to send to
someone, they call it a kite. He got a kite back.
Saying anything you ever write will never come through these
doors. But so many other people, Yeah,
(08:26):
that's fine. They can all come in.
They can all come in. Your wife, she can never see
you. She can never visit you.
It's indefinite. We're not changing no status
anytime soon. But we're not going to give you
a reason. But everybody else, we'll give
them a reason. We're just not going to give
you. Anyways, rant over for now.
I'll keep you guys updated. I'm so frustrated.
It's so unfortunate that they get away with these things.
(08:47):
And I know so many of you understand what I'm going
through. And I know so many of you have
felt what I felt. I actually have recently spoken
to a few women that I've met through this that are currently
going through different processes of trying to reapply
to have access to their loved 1.And in certain circumstances,
people make mistakes, people do crazy things.
I mean, people are incarcerated for a long time.
(09:10):
Things are going to happen, right?
And it's important that there are rules, and when rules are
broken, that something happens, right?
It's also important to communicate and it's important
to justify your actions from either side.
You've forged Nick's signature. You've lied to me about not
allowing me to get married on Christmas.
Who's the one that is in the wrong here?
(09:32):
Who's the one that's not being truthful out of the two?
It doesn't make any sense. But you're going to get away
with it and you're going to get away with it.
You're going to get away with ituntil you don't.
And you guys will follow me through this journey.
I will not just say, OK, you're how to label me as a threat and
I'm not going to do anything about it.
No, no, and you're not going to push me to stop the podcast
either. That's not going to happen
(09:52):
either. So if NDCS, because we know that
you listen, hi, how are you? If you think I'm going to stop,
I'm not because the amount of positivity that we have gotten
from this, the amount of community, the amount of people
that I've met that are truly wonderful humans, it's worth all
the work that we put in. We're going to be able to spread
our voices more and more and more people are going to get to
hear more and more stories. And this is where we're at and
(10:14):
this is what we're doing. And I'm not afraid of the
repercussions for letting women and men who love people that are
incarcerated or were incarcerated themselves.
I'm not going to stop them from having a voice.
I just won't. And they can't do anything about
it. And maybe they're upset that
they can't. I'm sorry.
I'm very, very sorry, but you can't.
And the way they've treated me has pushed me in the direction
(10:37):
to have this platform, has pushed me in the direction to
keep this going. So I'm grateful to them in that
regard for sure. I will keep you guys updated on
what happens. Maybe people need to know what's
actually happening behind prisondoors.
If you look on the websites, it's all like, we love
rehabilitation and we are so family focused and all the
stuff. It feels like so fake because so
many of us have a very differentexperience with it that you see
(10:59):
what the public sees and you're like, oh Gee, you guys, if only
you knew the reality. And I'm a victim of it too
because I would see things on the outside and think, yeah, OK,
they're doing good. Like they really want to help
these guys. Like they really want to
rehabilitate them. They want to give them
opportunities. They care about their family and
their loved ones. No, No, they don't.
Then you read these things that happen, like riots, for example.
(11:21):
People wonder, like, I wonder why this happened.
Yeah. Let's talk about what's actually
happening at NDCS. Let's talk about, like, the
realities of the situation. Let's talk about how people can
get written up for telling theirgirlfriends that they got a
write up. Yeah, that's real.
That's like literally suppression of voice.
That's what they're doing. They don't want the public.
(11:41):
They don't want the loved ones to learn about what's going on
in there, so they will write theguys up for that, for telling
their loved one about what's going on inside make and make
sense. It's terrifying.
It is terrifying. So I will keep you updated.
So with that, after my rant, I need you guys to keep listening.
I need you guys to hit that plushit that follow button, please.
(12:03):
It makes a big difference. But I also hope you're enjoying
it. And if you are enjoying the
episodes and you are enjoying learning about different women
in different circumstances, please share it.
These women are coming on and being vulnerable and talking
about their stories and sharing so that we can all feel closer
to one another, so that we can all feel like a community.
(12:24):
So we can all feel that it's notjust, you know, the Ash
Trevino's that are out there or the inmate hoppers that there's
like genuinely good people that there are people that really
care about these guys that are incarcerated.
And there's another side of the story.
And that's all we're just tryingto do.
So please share with someone that you love, someone that you
care about, that you think wouldbe interested in seeing that
other side, someone who's open minded.
(12:45):
Please share. And I promise we will continue
to put out episodes and we will continue to put out different
perspectives on things. Obviously, we limit it to
certain things and we're not trying to be controversial and
we're not trying to go against our own beliefs, but there are a
lot of people that you read about and then when you hear the
truth, it's a very different situation.
So I think it's really ideal to get a full picture and get a
(13:08):
different perspective. And I don't think there's anyone
better to showcase that than someone's loved one who's
incarcerated. So please share TikTok at more
than an inmates GF Instagram at podcast under score prison GF.
We are giving 1000 follower giveaway on Instagram.
Yes. We haven't hit 1000.
Yes, AJ's been working overtime to try and get there.
(13:31):
So we're doing a little giveaway.
So if you can go on there and like that post and I think you
got to follow like the post and tag a friend and we will be
giving away a cute little gift thing.
It's not little either, but it'scute and AJ's been working
really hard on it. So we're excited about it and we
want to be able to do that. So please go there and do that
(13:52):
for us and help us grow and helpus create a voice so that we can
create a strong enough voice that it can matter in these
situations. Anyways, this week's episode is
about a woman who was pregnant and had to give birth while her
loved 1 was incarcerated. So it's a good story.
It's definitely worth a listen. And I so appreciate you guys
(14:13):
being here, AJ and I so appreciate you being here.
I'm so sorry for the long rant. I hope you could understand.
I just feel so blessed to have found so many people in this
community that care and I'm really, really grateful.
And if there's anything that I can do or Nick and I can do to
help you or your loved one, please reach out to us, AJ.
And I would love to try and helpin any way that we can because
(14:34):
that's the whole point of this, right?
Thanks again. I love you guys.
I appreciate you so, so, so much.
And I hope you enjoy the episode.
Take care. Bye.
This week. We have a very interesting
episode with a woman that I can only call a superwoman.
This woman that AJ spoke to earlier this week has a story
(15:00):
that I think you guys are reallygoing to connect to connect
with. And she's just amazing from
holding down her house to everything that she's been
through. I think it's really truly
beautiful story of resilience when it comes to sometimes
having your loved one have to beincarcerated for a certain
amount of time. So with that, we are going to
(15:20):
talk today today about mostly her experiences with being
pregnant and giving birth. And I think that that's
something that is difficult on its own, even with your partner.
And this woman went through it alone.
Hearing her story and sharing her story and sharing how she
got through it, I think is really important for a lot of
us. So with that, I'm going to
introduce you. Her name is Ashley, so welcome
(15:42):
Ashley. Hi, how are you doing?
Good. How?
Are you well, I? Am well, thank you.
So excited to be on here talkingto you.
Yes. I am so excited too.
I can't wait to hear all about it.
So tell me about your partner. How did you guys meet?
Well. We met through my friend.
He was the brother of my friend.And you know, we just got out of
(16:03):
church ironically, and he came to pick up her kids to go
somewhere to grab lunch or something.
Seeing him like parking, I see them talking and she comes back
and hangs with Megan. And I was just like, Megan, who
the hell is that? And she's like, that's my
brother. And I was just like, oh, he's
fine. He was like, I need his number
type of thing. And ironically, she tells me
later that he actually said the same thing to her.
(16:23):
He's seen me across the parking lot and was like, Megan, who the
hell is that? And she's like, y'all are
ridiculous. It was just funny.
Did he get your number? Absolutely.
He did, and later on we hung outall together.
We went to one of our local bars.
At this point, you know, we justkind of hi.
And I'm so and so he's like, yeah, nice to meet you.
And we were all hanging out. Of course, I'm a couple of beers
(16:44):
in and I'm on the dance floor. I see him sitting at the bar and
he's talking to this girl and I can tell she's flirty.
And of course I have a massive crush.
And I'm like, I'm not going. So I walk over, maintain eye
contact with the girl and I sit in his lap took off.
You did. I did.
Wow. I love it.
I don't know that I could ever do that.
I needed liquid. Courage for that, because
(17:05):
normally I wouldn't have and it worked.
It's kind of what? Happened.
It worked for sure, she told me later on.
He was like, I knew I was in love with you at that point.
No, it's not gonna work, was it?Right after that, it just
started and you guys were inseparable or sort of?
I mean, I played hard to get forlike a year, honestly.
Whoa, I. Want to lie about it?
I did OK. I wrote you and I was like, OK,
now you gotta work for it. Wow.
(17:26):
What was it like falling in lovewith him?
Well, it. Really completely hit me out of
nowhere. We were best friends first.
Just kind of how it happened I guess.
Not going to lie. I was still in a marriage that
was very rocky. Me and my husband at the time
knew it was over. We were just staying for our
older kids at that point. We slept in separate rooms.
We did all of that stuff. I want to separate and
(17:47):
everything 1st and that's what Idid.
So we were friends for about a year.
I called him for everything and then I finally separated and
then we became a thing. How did he?
His sister feel about it, she's happy about.
It like, yeah, you know, my friends and my brothers now she
calls her sister. You know, we're a family now
because we have a child. Yeah.
So how? Long were you together before he
was incarcerated? Two years before he was
(18:09):
incarcerated was that. His first time he's been to.
County jail a couple of times, but this is first time being in
prison. You were.
Expecting correct when he was arrested, yes.
We were, I was about 20 weeks pregnant, OK.
So you knew? Yeah, we knew.
About it, We figured out the gender and everything before he
went in. What was it like when you found
(18:29):
out that you were pregnant? Very.
Excited. Yeah, yes, we were very excited.
We had had a miscarriage before this pregnancy, so it was kind
of hard. So there was some anxiety in the
first trimester, being sure thatI didn't miscarry again.
Before he went in, he made sure I had anything and everything I
needed. Anytime I said I was hungry, he
made sure I ate whatever I wanted, made sure I stayed
(18:51):
hydrated. He was on top of my prenatal
vitamins and all that stuff. That's so nice.
That must have been really hard.Then when he left, it was.
It was very, very difficult whenthat happened.
It took a couple days. It hit me.
I was like, oh wow, I'm actuallygoing to do this by myself type
of thing. Took a minute to process.
It was definitely rough. I was just, you know, this is
not happening. We finally made it past the
(19:14):
first trimester. We're getting ready to have this
baby and it's like this isn't happening.
It was rushing for sure. How did you get through it?
How did you process that? Literally, my thought process is
I don't have an option. I don't have any other choice
but to. And then I just didn't let
myself collapse. Believe me, I wanted to.
I wanted to fall apart, but I didn't let myself because I have
(19:35):
this child. I'm all he has right now, and I
don't have an option but to keepgoing.
Yeah. I'm trying to think how I would
feel and I don't have kids, but I feel like I'd be angry at him.
Yeah. Did you feel that?
What were your emotions towards him?
I was definitely. Mad in a way.
Some days I am angry still. I don't take it out of him.
I have my own emotional roller coasters that I go through just
(19:56):
about every other day. There are times where I'm angry
especially, like if I'm struggling financially or if
they're just nice. Like I really just want him
there and just be there with me.If you hear my little one of
them. Yeah, he's so cute.
But yeah, there is this night I'm mad because I need you here.
You know, I need help with thesebills.
I need help with these kids doing it pretty much by myself.
(20:18):
Like, I'm really, really mad. But I'll take it out on him
because I know that wasn't his intention to end up where he
was. Yeah.
He wanted to be a dad again. He has other children, too.
He didn't want to be there. Yeah.
He feels bad about ending up where he is.
I'm not going to make him feel worse by taking things out on
him because he goes through it every day.
I know he does. That's so.
Mature of you that you're able to be angry and still, like,
(20:41):
process it on your own, yeah. But there are times where I
don't want to be mature about it.
What would you? Say was the hardest part of
that, that time period from him being incarcerated to giving
birth. What was the hardest part for
you? One of the.
Hardest things for me was going through the pregnancy, the
milestone, because he never got to fill a kick or anything
before he went in. Wow.
It was until a few weeks later, experiencing all of that, going
(21:02):
to the ultrasound, yeah, that was that was hard going through
all of that and not being able to show him any of it or
anything. Any time that I could go to the
doctor and have him on the phoneand looking for the heartbeat or
something like that, I made sureI put it on speakerphone and I
let him hear it best I could. And that's something that I
tried to do. But besides giving birth, that
(21:23):
was probably the hardest part. And then when you actually went
through the birth, was he able to participate at all?
He was. Not He was in county jail for
about four months and then when he got transferred to prison,
takes a while for you to be ableto use the phone.
And the week that I was getting ready to give birth because they
moved him to one prison and thenthey had him wait there for a
(21:46):
couple of days because the busesrun on the schedule when they
take them to whatever facility. So they took him to one prison,
I had him wait there, and then they took him to the facility
that he was actually going to begoing to.
So it was like a solid week. I hadn't heard anything.
Got to the point where like, I was calling around, I'm like,
where is he? And there was a website where
you can look up where the offender is and it says he was
(22:07):
at this in prison he was going to.
And they're like, oh, he's not here.
And I'm like, and where the hellis he?
Like, I'm trying to like, give him updates about the baby and
everything. And they're like, oh, well, he's
this place waiting for a bus. So yeah, the day that I gave
birth was actually the day he got to where he was going.
He managed to get a call out to me.
He managed to get a guard that acell phone.
So he said, listen, that my wife's getting ready to go on
(22:29):
the labor. I really need to call her and
check on her if they let him call and he called me and it was
right after the birth was done. I said by the way your son is
beautiful. He's 7 lbs six oz.
I could tell he almost started crying on the phone.
He said please tell him I love him and then I miss him and I
can't wait to see him as you're.Telling this story, I'm sitting
here so angry for you that you couldn't get a hold of him.
(22:54):
And then now I'm ready to cry because now you're telling me
the story of him. I can't even imagine what he was
going through. Did you have a scheduled birth
or was it just when it was time?The.
Night before I went go shopping and I got his diaper bag and it
was 3 days before my due date anyway so his sister took me to
the hospital. I woke her up at 4:15 in the
(23:16):
morning. I woke up I was hurting, I was
having contractions. I waited about 30 minutes didn't
know if they was side and I wokeher up.
I think I'm having the baby. Sure enough, I ended up having
him 10:00 in the morning that day.
Oh my gosh, so his. Sister was there with you.
She was there. She was in the room pretty much
taking pictures. She left right after I had him
just because she had to go back to work.
(23:37):
Yeah, I didn't have anybody elsethere with me or anything like
that. And I couldn't call him and tell
him or send a message or something like that.
And you're. Getting ready to give birth And
is it on your mind that he's missing?
Yeah, yeah. Any twin contractions.
I kept telling her I want him here.
Pretty much the only thing that was on my mind, like I was in
pain and everything. Anybody that's been through
(23:57):
labor can tell you like, oh, believe me, when you're having
contractions, you feel all of it.
But in between, just one of the things, like I was looking for
him hit me like, oh, wait, he's in jail.
It was very, very emotional timeto like, I was mad.
I was sad, but I was happy because I was bringing our
bullying to the world. It was one of the hardest things
that I've ever went through. Yeah, I can't even imagine.
(24:19):
Did you guys name the baby together?
We did. You did.
Yeah, we had. A name picked out before he went
in because we were so excited about it because we had a
miscarriage before and we had names picked out if it was going
to be a boy or a girl, so we already knew what we wanted to
name our baby. What was it like the days
afterwards? How was he able to be involved?
How is he feeling? Did he communicate with you on
(24:40):
that? The moment he was able to get on
a phone, he called me, wanted updates.
He's like, how's my baby? How are you?
How are you feeling? How are you feeling?
How did everything go? Was there problems?
That everything was fine? You know, I had the epidural.
He was OK. He was 7 lbs six oz.
He's beautiful. He looks like you.
He has your birthmark. It's like the same exact one,
just in a different. It's adorable.
(25:01):
And I asked, are you OK? I haven't talked to you in like
a week. How are you feeling and how your
mindset? Because he's off bipolar, he has
very high highs and very low lows when it comes to emotions.
So worried about him. And I was like, are you OK?
He's like, yeah, I've just been worried about you.
After I told him everything, he's like, I am so sorry that I
wasn't there. And I said, it's OK.
We've been preparing for this. We knew this was going to
(25:23):
happen. We've had a few months to kind
of wrap our minds around. And I said, it's OK.
Don't, don't get yourself in a negative place.
Not constructive. Let's just focus on the
positives. Our boy is here.
He is happy, he is healthy and he still apologizes to me every
day. He wants to be here.
Did. He get to meet him, he has met.
Him whenever he was able to havevisits, the first thing I did,
(25:44):
you know, after he was born as Iapplied to go visit him and at
the facility that he's at, they allow contact visits.
So we can sit in a room together.
There's no glass between us, no phones or anything like that.
We can sit at a table and he cangreet us, hug us and kiss us
when we arrive. He can do that also when we
leave and then he can hold him intermittently.
He got to meet him when he was about, I'm going to say 3 weeks
(26:07):
old is whenever I can. Oh.
So it happened fast. Normally approvals take forever.
Oh, we got. Lucky our facility it only took
about a week for classes. And what was that like?
Very. Emotional for me, I was very
excited because I hadn't been able to touch him now in six
months. Wow.
I wasn't able to touch him or hug him or anything like that
because whenever he was in county jail, we could visit, you
(26:28):
know, there's glass between you and you know, he talked on a
phone that connected to the other side.
Finally, just so glad that I could hug him and he got to hold
him and it made my heart so warm.
He could feed him whenever it was time for him to eat, so it
was very heart warming. It was a very happy moment, but
a very emotional moment because I knew it only lasts for a
certain amount of time, but not all good things.
(26:51):
And definitely worth it because I can't imagine the pain for.
Sure of having to. Separate them.
Awful. There were times our son is
about 18 months old now that's about he's at that toddler age
and ever since he was born. So you know, dad, dad, you know
this dad, dad. And that would have him talk.
So he's used to him. And so now whenever we go to
visit, he cries. Our son cries whenever it's time
(27:12):
for us to leave. We told ourselves that too.
And when he gets a little older,he's going to start asking me
questions. He's going to wonder why you
can't come with us. He's going to he's going to get
upset. So this is something that we're
going to have to prepare for as well.
And he said, I know it's rough. The moment he's back in the
cell, he's calling me. Making sure that I'm OK, he's OK
(27:32):
makes me. So emotional because it's so
sad. And I know that there's other
circumstances in Nick's prison where I know some people that
aren't able to see their son. It breaks my heart because these
fathers want to be involved. The mistakes that they did or
didn't make, whatever circumstances that and landed
them there and then, yeah, they're being separated from
(27:54):
their child when yeah, they don't want to be.
And there's so many fathers thatdon't want to be a part of their
children's lives. It's one of the things.
That frustrates me is I tell people, you know, I said he's an
amazing dad and they're like, well, if he's such a good dad,
then why is he locked up? And I'm like, I'm about to cut
you out. That has nothing to do with it.
I don't care what you have to say.
(28:15):
He's an amazing dad. You can any of his kids and even
my kids that I had with my ex-husband who's super cool by
the way. We have a great comparative
relationship. He's aware of the situation, he
knows him even he'll tell you he's a good dad.
And my other kids that I had with him, they love him.
They him as their stepdad. He's a great father.
I'm sick of the stigma that people are just like, hey,
(28:38):
they're incarcerated, must not be good parents or they must not
care about their child if they're locked up.
You know what? That has nothing to do with it.
You don't know their story. You don't know what they did.
You don't know what they're like.
You're right. That's stigma.
It's really hard to overcome. It's nice to hear that your
other kids also think he's such a good dad.
Oh, they love him. What do?
You do that helps him stay bonded with his child throughout
(29:00):
this time. Thing you can recommend to try
and keep that closeness. Every time he calls, and if I'm
home and our son isn't a daycareor anything like that, and he'll
call and he's like, can I talk to him?
And I was like, yeah, I put him on speaker and I bring the phone
close because even though if he don't say anything, he still
hears his voice. And he'll say it's like, hi, my
baby, hi. And then my son goes dad, dad,
(29:22):
dad, dad. Yeah.
And I was like his daddy. He'll talk to him and
everything. He's like, he'd be good for
mommy. I love you.
Still have their own little conversation.
So sweet you have other kids. How did you navigate that
conversation? Shut them.
Down and I was like, OK, listen,something going on and I told
him how he went to jail. He's not going to be here for a
(29:43):
few years and like, well, why? And you know, I tried to explain
it to them best I could but it doesn't mean he doesn't love
you. He loves you.
Sometimes they talk to him on the phone and they ask him how
he's doing. Was it a?
Hard conversation to have the kids seem so well adjusted to
it, and I feel like part of it is the way that someone would
explain that to kids. I'm, I'm also curious because as
(30:04):
you're growing up, you're thinking, OK, prison's bad,
jail's bad. So how do you have that
conversation and keep it positive?
I said whenever. You make a mistake as a child,
you got to slap on the wrist. I said when you're a grown up
and you make a mistake, most of the time, depending on what the
mistake is, if it's really bad, you end up going to jail.
And I said that's what happened here.
He made a mistake and now he hasto pay for it by going to jail
(30:25):
and it sucks and we missed him, but that's just something that
we have to deal with. Just because you make a mistake
does not make you a bad person. Take the time to learn from your
mistake and make sure you don't do it again.
That way you don't go back to jail and you can be with your
family. And kind of how I navigated
that. How'd they?
Take it my. Little son.
He's autistic and he bonded withmy guy more heavily than the
(30:48):
other one, so he's upset. Sometimes he'll come to me and
say, mom, you know, I really miss him, but they all ask me
questions and you know that. When's he coming home, mom?
And I'm like, well, right now it's April 2029.
So. Well, that's a long time.
He said, I'll be this old and I'll be this old.
And I'm like, yeah, I know. That's where we're at at the
moment. You did such a wonderful job of
(31:09):
explaining it to kids for them to understand at that age I just
took. Time to think about what exactly
I wanted to say in a way that they could understand it.
Because you know, my kids that Ihave, they're 11108 and then I
have my 5 year old and then I have my 18.
My 5 year old, she was three whenever he went in.
So she really doesn't remember awhole lot.
She doesn't really ask a lot of questions.
(31:31):
My older boys though, because that's four boys, one girl.
So my older boys, they were asking me questions.
They knew him very well and theyremember the ones that I really
explained it to, to an 11, a 10 and an 8 year old, right?
To where? They could understand and that's
just what I went with. I'm.
Amazed at everything that you doand that many kids that you're
(31:52):
navigating so well. How do you do it?
Like do you have support? My whole family lives in another
state. Yeah, pretty much just me.
Of course, my older kids dad, he's wonderful.
We were one week on, one week off.
He has them for a week, I have them for a week.
So I get a little bit of a breakwhen it comes to that.
He's always like hey, you need anything, let me know.
(32:13):
I have friends, but all of them work.
If I'm a sick child or somethinglike that, I have to take off
work and I'm home and stuff. So it is pretty much just me.
Most of my support system was out of the state, right?
And this is probably not a possibility for you to even go
closer to your family because ofyour ex-husband, correct?
I am. Sucker I am.
Unfortunately, we did talk aboutmoving back up north because we
(32:36):
all lived up there at one point in time.
Yeah. And so we thought about going
back up. Of course, it would be after he
was out before that happened, even he told me, he said if you
need support, if you want to move out of state and to be with
your family, you can. And I was like, well, honey, you
forget my other kids are here. And I'm not going to leave them
behind and I'm not going to takethem from their father.
And with our parenting plans, there's not really an option
(32:58):
anyway. So how do you find the strength
to do everything I tell myself? I don't have an option and I
just need to do it and get over it.
That's the only way that I'm able to do because it just hits
me that because my older kids, Ihave their dad, if anything were
to happen to me, they would havehim.
Well, my youngest son doesn't have that.
I'm all he's got. I have to do everything for him
(33:21):
to make sure he's taken care of and good.
Sure, he has everything he needs.
I just told myself that I'm all he has and to get it together.
And I don't give myself an option for failure or to slip.
And of course, there are things that happen in life happens and
you can't control everything. So yeah, there are setbacks.
Just like last week, I was home all week.
I wasn't able to work all week because my son had Type A flu
(33:42):
and he wasn't able to go to daycare.
Do you have moments of self-care?
Please tell me you do Rarely. When I find the time, if I'm not
doing laundry, doing dishes or cleaning, cooking or work or
doing school work, Most of my self-care moments honestly is I
take a shower and I like a mask that'll really do a whole lot of
(34:02):
self-care. Most of my self-care honestly is
just laying in the bed and just scrolling tick tock a little bit
before I go to pet shop. I know a.
Lot of moms that can relate to that statement yes, zoning and.
Scroll and just turn my mind fora second.
Let's be like, listen, my kids are in bed, my house is clean,
I'm fed and my kids are fed. Everything is fine.
I'm going to lay in bed for a minute and I want to turn my
(34:23):
mind off and I want to mindlessly scroll tick tock at
my numbing dust and just relax for a second.
So that's the majority of myselfhere that was worried.
For a second, I just can't imagine.
We were saying before we startedrecording, I don't have any kids
and I have a dog. Sometimes my house is a mess or
I'm not cooking or whatever, andI can't imagine that many kids
(34:43):
and having to do it alone. Knowing your partner is not
voluntarily not there, it's so much harder something.
That I thought about. It's like you're grieving
somebody. Yeah, still alive.
It's almost like grieving a death.
But of course they're not dead, but they're not there.
You're reading somebody who's still alive, which is that much
harder. You know that they want to be
(35:04):
there, but they can't, and they're away from you and they
don't want to be. It's not like they have an
option to come back to you for acertain amount of time.
There's not really a way to healfrom that.
So it's like you're constantly grieving the loss, like their
presence, them being there, being there for you, for support
or you help around the house or financially, whatever.
It's all a loss. So it's like you're grieving a
(35:25):
loss of them being there with you.
I think that's kind of harder. I don't want to say it's harder
than grieving and death because of course it probably isn't, but
I feel like it. You can't heal from that.
There's no healing from that. The ache is always going to be
there and the sting doesn't fadeand it's just one of those
things that you just like. How do you recover from that?
(35:48):
I don't really don't think you do, especially if you have that
relationship to where you reallydo miss them.
They really want to be there with you.
You have a really tight relationship.
They're your person. There's no healing from that.
It's like you're stuck in limbo while you're waiting for him.
He's a huge part of your family,he is.
I've even told my husband this. I said he is more of a husband
(36:09):
to me than you were. And my ex-husband and I got
married very young. We had no idea what we were
doing. A lot of resentment there, but
we healed from that. In hindsight, is there anything
that you would do different or would have done differently?
Any kind of advice for anybody? I wouldn't have spent so much
time being mad at him. You know, I had every right to
be mad, but I wouldn't have spent so much energy being upset
(36:32):
at him. Not something anyone could have
controlled. I just wouldn't have been mad
for so long because I know he didn't intend that.
He didn't want to be there. He didn't want to be in the
situation he was in. And that ended up leading into
him getting incarcerated. Like he didn't mean for that to
happen. So that's why I would definitely
would go back and I wouldn't spend as much time being mad at
(36:53):
him as I was. And it sounds like you've
forgiven him too. I have.
Of course there are days where you're going to struggle and
like there are days where you think you're totally fine,
you've moved past it, you're OK,and then some days it just hits
you like a ton of bricks. Can't be emotionally stable and
perfect all the time. Everybody's going to feel like
(37:13):
that at some point. It is OK to have emotions.
Just don't stay there. You got to pick yourself up the
floor and keep going with it andjust move past it.
And you can take a day and you can be upset and you can say
whatever, but it's also important to not take it out on
your partner. They know.
Do you have any other advice forsomeone who's going through
something similar? Take it a.
(37:34):
Day at a time, everyone loves toplan for the future and talk
about all the amazing things you're going to do when you get
out. And that's amazing to have those
conversations. But where you are in the here
and now, take it a day at a time.
Tackle today's problems today and the future stuff.
Realize that is in the future and cross that bridge when you
get to it. They'll overwhelm yourself.
And just know that I can only doso much I love.
(37:56):
That I think that's great. I know he's going to hear this
one day. I'd love for you to just tell me
a little bit more about what kind of human he is, what kind
of person he is, and why he's somuch more than his incarceration
if you asked. Him for something, he would move
mountains to make it happen. If whatever you asked of him,
there were times, you know, we were financially struggling and
(38:19):
I would say trying to figure outwhat to do for dinner, he's
hungry, whatever else. If he realized that there was
only enough for one, he wouldn'ttouch it.
He made sure that I ate and he said he'd figure out something
for himself. He is just comes off as a jerk,
but he is actually one of the most thoughtful, one of the most
kind people that I've ever met. He has such an interesting
thought process, I think becausehe can take certain situations
(38:40):
and if all I can see is a negative, he always has a
positive way of looking at it. Very hard working.
Who he is as a human is him and his ex-wife.
No matter what kind of terms they were on, if she called him
and said hey, the kids need thisand no matter what he was doing,
he'd look at me and say hey, thekids need this.
You want to come with me? I'm Michael.
Of course I'm going. We made sure it happened as a
(39:02):
team. That's who he is as a human and
I love that about him. He's my best friend.
I'm going to be we kind of graphic for a minute.
I was in the hospital with COVIDback in 2021 and I was really
bad off. I had bacterial pneumonia with
it. I was in the hospital for three
weeks. He took care of my kids.
This is before we had our child made sure they were fed and
(39:22):
happy and healthy. He would bring me food in the
hospital bed ridden for, you know, days.
And so I needed physical therapyto be able to, you know, walk
around, you know, with even catching my breath and
everything because my lungs tooka really big hit.
He did my physical therapy with me.
He made sure I took all my medication.
He anything that anyone ever needed.
He cares about you. Anything you need, he is there.
(39:43):
Oh my. Gosh, you're, you're bringing me
to tears over here that these things happen, Believe me.
Yeah, there are times if I need to cry.
Another piece of advice that I want to give people, if you need
to cry, then free cry. There's no shame.
There's it's not going to be an award for the toughest one out
there that never shows emotion with everything they're dealing
with. So grateful.
That I got to hear your story because I think it's just so
(40:05):
nice to hear you just had a really nice way of portraying
what it was like and the maturity that you had in
handling the situation. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for sharing the story because I think a lot of people
are going to relate to it and I think the advice that you've
given is going to be really helpful for a lot of people.
The forgiving. Part it took me a long time to
fully forget them. So if anyone feels guilty, see
(40:27):
about Oh, I haven't forgiven him.
I feel guilty, you know, for notbeing here and I feel like I
should. You need to do that on your own
terms, on your timeline. Don't feel pressured to be like,
Oh, I should be past this at this point.
No, get out on your own terms. If you need to go to therapy.
I went to therapy to try to workit out yourself internally when
it comes to that, you know, dealing with what reality is
(40:48):
going to be like. You forgive when you're ready to
forgive and don't feel bad if you haven't gotten there yet.
Like I love this platform too. I feel like, you know, it's
helping a lot of people, especially like if you're
dealing with like, I don't know what to do, know how to feel, I
don't know where to go from here.
I think this platform is really awesome and helping people with
that. So that's why I was so excited
to be on here and talk to you guys and everything.
(41:10):
And now I know why because you have so much information to
share that can be helpful, so I so appreciate that.
Do you ever want? To talk to me again feel free to
call and I have no problem getting on here and talk to you
again. I love to talk to you guys.
I love you guys. Oh.
Thank you. I love when people say that
because it means a lot. Thank you so much again, Ashley,
appreciate it. Have a good night.
He called me and it was right after the purchase.
Then I said by the way your son is beautiful.
I could tell if he almost started crying on the phone.
He said please tell him I love him and then I miss him and I
can't wait to see him. Welcome to more than an inmate's
girlfriend. I'm your host, Jay.
And this week before we get in the episode, I'm having a day
(00:24):
incoming rent. I'm sorry in advance, but it's
getting to me. It is very much getting to me.
How does a prison label you as athreat to the safety and
security of the building or whatever, but not give you any
reason? Literally, like, how do they get
away with it? But they do.
But how? They've taken away our access
(00:47):
for quite some time now. And for a while, I was just
like, whatever, you know what? I've adjusted.
I'm really busy and I'm a big believer and everything happens
for a reason. And this is what's supposed to
be happening. But when it starts to affect my
husband's mental health, I'm notOK with it anymore.
And it got to that point where it was enough.
Enough is enough. You've had your time, your ego
(01:07):
is filled. You've gotten your little kick.
Now it's time to move on. There's other things that are
happening. This podcast isn't going
anywhere. I'm not doing anything wrong by
publishing it or whatever the word is.
I'm not doing anything wrong. I'm not doing anything wrong by
publishing his book. So let's move on, you know?
But no, they can't do that. I got this BS e-mail today and I
(01:31):
was mad. I was mad my mother and Nick's
mother got it from me because I was so angry that you could just
blanket statement when there areactual threats.
I on the other hand, if not one of them.
So I don't know, and I don't know who Nick pissed off enough
to take it to this level, but heobviously ticked someone off on
(01:54):
a very serious level that it's getting out of hand.
It's literally getting out of hand.
Move on to the next person. You know?
I'm so over being told that I'm something I'm not.
It's like gaslighting to the next level.
It's shocking. And most people just take it,
(02:15):
right? Like they just roll over kind of
because that's what we're used to doing.
That's what most of us are used to doing because what can we do?
They're this big organization. They're this beast of an
organization that just does whatever they want.
And it's so counter rehabilitative.
It's so counter rehabilitative and you know, when I first met
Nick and we were talking to her friends or whatever, I was so
(02:37):
pro administration when everything's would happen and he
would complain about it. Be like, they're just doing
their job. They're just trying to make sure
everything's safe. They're just trying to make sure
you're safe. They're just trying to do this.
It's cool. Like let them, you have nothing
to hide. It's OK, you're turning a new
leaf. You have nothing to hide
anymore. Like let them do it, let them
think, let them whatever. But then when they go and do
something like this and continuously not give reasons,
(03:00):
it makes it more suspicious. You're supposed to be this
institution of integrity, Nebraska corrections.
So you're supposed to be right. Like you're all pro
rehabilitative. But I've literally witnessed you
keep babies away from their parents under the rule of like
safety. A baby, you know, and they just
keep doing it and they just keepgetting away with it.
(03:22):
Eventually something's got to give, right?
And eventually people aren't going to just sit there and say
OK. And I think it's important that
we use the voices that we have to communicate when injustices
are being done against families.You want to claim
rehabilitation, but yet the things that they're doing, and I
could elaborate so much more andI'm trying really hard not to,
(03:43):
but some of the things that theyhave gotten away with doing and
what they're currently doing to these guys is insane.
And then they just want to labelthem as like these horrible
humans, right? Like I've literally seen emails
where they basically call these guys monsters.
Nick hasn't had a write up in almost two years.
And then conveniently, he got wrote up when he appealed the
decision for him being classified the way he's
(04:05):
classified, because he hasn't gotten right up in forever.
They've forged documents saying that he signed something that he
never signed because they made amistake.
So they like lied, full on lied.Like it really happened.
You guys. It's crazy.
And I want to elaborate more. And the lawsuit hasn't been
filed yet. And once it's filed, I may or
(04:26):
may not speak on it a little bitmore.
And a lot of you might be sayinglike, you know, and even AJ, God
love her. She's the greatest, but she'll
be like, you know, calm it down or like, don't say anything or
don't do this or don't do that. And I'm like, no, I will never
be that person that's just goingto say, yeah, OK, I'm going to
be hush, hush or I'm not going to speak my mind.
I'm not going to tell the truth because I'm afraid of what's
(04:48):
going to happen. And if speaking out is what
needs to happen for people to beheld accountable, you want our
guys and our women that are incarcerated to be held
accountable for their actions, but you don't want to be held
accountable for yours. And I'm just supposed to take an
e-mail that says, I swear it wasn't punitive or I promise
that the right actions were taken and the process was
(05:11):
reviewed properly. Oh, yeah.
OK. I'm going to believe this person
that I don't even know. It's the first time she's ever
emailed me. I'm supposed to believe you when
you have case managers that are telling my husband that he needs
to leave me for him to be considered for anything else or
to advance in any way. That's what your administration
is saying. Like that's what's happening
(05:32):
because what I give him the freedom of expression to publish
a book. Wow, what a shame.
And the lack of communication completely.
They just don't communicate. It's crazy because I've heard of
people losing visitation for certain reasons and they lose it
for a set amount of time. And these are actual reasons.
Like they're real, actually did something they shouldn't have
and they are being held responsible for it.
(05:53):
Fair. They did something they
shouldn't have. I've never done anything like at
all. This doesn't make any sense.
And then you want to blanket it for the safety and security and
like, I wish you guys could readthat e-mail.
They really need to protect themselves from little old me.
Never even gotten a speeding ticket before, but I am to be
watched. Let me tell you not not you guys
(06:15):
know it. I know it.
We all know it. Elephant in the room, everybody.
She's not actually a threat. You're dragging it out more than
you really need to. And now I'm annoyed and maybe
they're going to keep winning and they're going to keep
wedding, but eventually they're not because eventually this
community is going to grow and we are growing.
And maybe we're only at a couplethousand listens a month, but
(06:35):
you know, hearing from someone last week from Australia saying
like, I hope you and Nick end uptogether, wow.
Like it's crazy getting messageslike I really needed to hear
this podcast. Thank you for making it.
And so many of us are women. I'm sure there's men too, but so
many of us are women and women have power, like we really do.
And maybe I'm going to lose consistently and maybe you guys
(06:59):
are going to watch me lose consistently.
And I'm going to be open and honest about how we're handling
it with Nebraska Corrections andhow Nick is really trying to
stay positive and stay on track and be a good person and not do
anything that he shouldn't do. And really trying to do the
right thing here and really growand mature and learn and
(07:22):
continue to learn. And then to be beat down
continuously. Like I'll give you some
examples. So he published the book, right,
The Prisoner Manifesto, and that's what started everything.
Now he wrote another book he sent out to the prisons
administration or whatever, saying like, hey, who do I have
to give this book to get it approved so that I can publish
it because you freaked out last time.
(07:42):
So I want to give it to you so that you can tell me if it's OK,
so that I can publish it. And then it took forever to get
a response. And then when he got the
response, finally it said, you don't need our permission to
publish a book, but none of whatyou write will ever enter this
facility. We can count so many people that
are currently incarcerated in the Nebraska Department of
(08:03):
Corrections that have their books and are holding them in
their hands. So many people that have written
their own books and published them and then got, but then they
write a kite to Nick. A kite is like a note.
I don't know how to describe it.For those of you that are not in
the system. Basically like a note to send to
someone, they call it a kite. He got a kite back.
Saying anything you ever write will never come through these
doors. But so many other people, Yeah,
(08:26):
that's fine. They can all come in.
They can all come in. Your wife, she can never see
you. She can never visit you.
It's indefinite. We're not changing no status
anytime soon. But we're not going to give you
a reason. But everybody else, we'll give
them a reason. We're just not going to give
you. Anyways, rant over for now.
I'll keep you guys updated. I'm so frustrated.
It's so unfortunate that they get away with these things.
(08:47):
And I know so many of you understand what I'm going
through. And I know so many of you have
felt what I felt. I actually have recently spoken
to a few women that I've met through this that are currently
going through different processes of trying to reapply
to have access to their loved 1.And in certain circumstances,
people make mistakes, people do crazy things.
I mean, people are incarcerated for a long time.
(09:10):
Things are going to happen, right?
And it's important that there are rules, and when rules are
broken, that something happens, right?
It's also important to communicate and it's important
to justify your actions from either side.
You've forged Nick's signature. You've lied to me about not
allowing me to get married on Christmas.
Who's the one that is in the wrong here?
(09:32):
Who's the one that's not being truthful out of the two?
It doesn't make any sense. But you're going to get away
with it and you're going to get away with it.
You're going to get away with ituntil you don't.
And you guys will follow me through this journey.
I will not just say, OK, you're how to label me as a threat and
I'm not going to do anything about it.
No, no, and you're not going to push me to stop the podcast
either. That's not going to happen
(09:52):
either. So if NDCS, because we know that
you listen, hi, how are you? If you think I'm going to stop,
I'm not because the amount of positivity that we have gotten
from this, the amount of community, the amount of people
that I've met that are truly wonderful humans, it's worth all
the work that we put in. We're going to be able to spread
our voices more and more and more people are going to get to
hear more and more stories. And this is where we're at and
(10:14):
this is what we're doing. And I'm not afraid of the
repercussions for letting women and men who love people that are
incarcerated or were incarcerated themselves.
I'm not going to stop them from having a voice.
I just won't. And they can't do anything about
it. And maybe they're upset that
they can't. I'm sorry.
I'm very, very sorry, but you can't.
And the way they've treated me has pushed me in the direction
(10:37):
to have this platform, has pushed me in the direction to
keep this going. So I'm grateful to them in that
regard for sure. I will keep you guys updated on
what happens. Maybe people need to know what's
actually happening behind prisondoors.
If you look on the websites, it's all like, we love
rehabilitation and we are so family focused and all the
stuff. It feels like so fake because so
many of us have a very differentexperience with it that you see
(10:59):
what the public sees and you're like, oh Gee, you guys, if only
you knew the reality. And I'm a victim of it too
because I would see things on the outside and think, yeah, OK,
they're doing good. Like they really want to help
these guys. Like they really want to
rehabilitate them. They want to give them
opportunities. They care about their family and
their loved ones. No, No, they don't.
Then you read these things that happen, like riots, for example.
(11:21):
People wonder, like, I wonder why this happened.
Yeah. Let's talk about what's actually
happening at NDCS. Let's talk about, like, the
realities of the situation. Let's talk about how people can
get written up for telling theirgirlfriends that they got a
write up. Yeah, that's real.
That's like literally suppression of voice.
That's what they're doing. They don't want the public.
(11:41):
They don't want the loved ones to learn about what's going on
in there, so they will write theguys up for that, for telling
their loved one about what's going on inside make and make
sense. It's terrifying.
It is terrifying. So I will keep you updated.
So with that, after my rant, I need you guys to keep listening.
I need you guys to hit that plushit that follow button, please.
(12:03):
It makes a big difference. But I also hope you're enjoying
it. And if you are enjoying the
episodes and you are enjoying learning about different women
in different circumstances, please share it.
These women are coming on and being vulnerable and talking
about their stories and sharing so that we can all feel closer
to one another, so that we can all feel like a community.
(12:24):
So we can all feel that it's notjust, you know, the Ash
Trevino's that are out there or the inmate hoppers that there's
like genuinely good people that there are people that really
care about these guys that are incarcerated.
And there's another side of the story.
And that's all we're just tryingto do.
So please share with someone that you love, someone that you
care about, that you think wouldbe interested in seeing that
other side, someone who's open minded.
(12:45):
Please share. And I promise we will continue
to put out episodes and we will continue to put out different
perspectives on things. Obviously, we limit it to
certain things and we're not trying to be controversial and
we're not trying to go against our own beliefs, but there are a
lot of people that you read about and then when you hear the
truth, it's a very different situation.
So I think it's really ideal to get a full picture and get a
(13:08):
different perspective. And I don't think there's anyone
better to showcase that than someone's loved one who's
incarcerated. So please share TikTok at more
than an inmates GF Instagram at podcast under score prison GF.
We are giving 1000 follower giveaway on Instagram.
Yes. We haven't hit 1000.
Yes, AJ's been working overtime to try and get there.
(13:31):
So we're doing a little giveaway.
So if you can go on there and like that post and I think you
got to follow like the post and tag a friend and we will be
giving away a cute little gift thing.
It's not little either, but it'scute and AJ's been working
really hard on it. So we're excited about it and we
want to be able to do that. So please go there and do that
(13:52):
for us and help us grow and helpus create a voice so that we can
create a strong enough voice that it can matter in these
situations. Anyways, this week's episode is
about a woman who was pregnant and had to give birth while her
loved 1 was incarcerated. So it's a good story.
It's definitely worth a listen. And I so appreciate you guys
(14:13):
being here, AJ and I so appreciate you being here.
I'm so sorry for the long rant. I hope you could understand.
I just feel so blessed to have found so many people in this
community that care and I'm really, really grateful.
And if there's anything that I can do or Nick and I can do to
help you or your loved one, please reach out to us, AJ.
And I would love to try and helpin any way that we can because
(14:34):
that's the whole point of this, right?
Thanks again. I love you guys.
I appreciate you so, so, so much.
And I hope you enjoy the episode.
Take care. Bye.
This week. We have a very interesting
episode with a woman that I can only call a superwoman.
This woman that AJ spoke to earlier this week has a story
(15:00):
that I think you guys are reallygoing to connect to connect
with. And she's just amazing from
holding down her house to everything that she's been
through. I think it's really truly
beautiful story of resilience when it comes to sometimes
having your loved one have to beincarcerated for a certain
amount of time. So with that, we are going to
(15:20):
talk today today about mostly her experiences with being
pregnant and giving birth. And I think that that's
something that is difficult on its own, even with your partner.
And this woman went through it alone.
Hearing her story and sharing her story and sharing how she
got through it, I think is really important for a lot of
us. So with that, I'm going to
introduce you. Her name is Ashley, so welcome
(15:42):
Ashley. Hi, how are you doing?
Good. How?
Are you well, I? Am well, thank you.
So excited to be on here talkingto you.
Yes. I am so excited too.
I can't wait to hear all about it.
So tell me about your partner. How did you guys meet?
Well. We met through my friend.
He was the brother of my friend.And you know, we just got out of
(16:03):
church ironically, and he came to pick up her kids to go
somewhere to grab lunch or something.
Seeing him like parking, I see them talking and she comes back
and hangs with Megan. And I was just like, Megan, who
the hell is that? And she's like, that's my
brother. And I was just like, oh, he's
fine. He was like, I need his number
type of thing. And ironically, she tells me
later that he actually said the same thing to her.
(16:23):
He's seen me across the parking lot and was like, Megan, who the
hell is that? And she's like, y'all are
ridiculous. It was just funny.
Did he get your number? Absolutely.
He did, and later on we hung outall together.
We went to one of our local bars.
At this point, you know, we justkind of hi.
And I'm so and so he's like, yeah, nice to meet you.
And we were all hanging out. Of course, I'm a couple of beers
(16:44):
in and I'm on the dance floor. I see him sitting at the bar and
he's talking to this girl and I can tell she's flirty.
And of course I have a massive crush.
And I'm like, I'm not going. So I walk over, maintain eye
contact with the girl and I sit in his lap took off.
You did. I did.
Wow. I love it.
I don't know that I could ever do that.
I needed liquid. Courage for that, because
(17:05):
normally I wouldn't have and it worked.
It's kind of what? Happened.
It worked for sure, she told me later on.
He was like, I knew I was in love with you at that point.
No, it's not gonna work, was it?Right after that, it just
started and you guys were inseparable or sort of?
I mean, I played hard to get forlike a year, honestly.
Whoa, I. Want to lie about it?
I did OK. I wrote you and I was like, OK,
now you gotta work for it. Wow.
(17:26):
What was it like falling in lovewith him?
Well, it. Really completely hit me out of
nowhere. We were best friends first.
Just kind of how it happened I guess.
Not going to lie. I was still in a marriage that
was very rocky. Me and my husband at the time
knew it was over. We were just staying for our
older kids at that point. We slept in separate rooms.
We did all of that stuff. I want to separate and
(17:47):
everything 1st and that's what Idid.
So we were friends for about a year.
I called him for everything and then I finally separated and
then we became a thing. How did he?
His sister feel about it, she's happy about.
It like, yeah, you know, my friends and my brothers now she
calls her sister. You know, we're a family now
because we have a child. Yeah.
So how? Long were you together before he
was incarcerated? Two years before he was
(18:09):
incarcerated was that. His first time he's been to.
County jail a couple of times, but this is first time being in
prison. You were.
Expecting correct when he was arrested, yes.
We were, I was about 20 weeks pregnant, OK.
So you knew? Yeah, we knew.
About it, We figured out the gender and everything before he
went in. What was it like when you found
(18:29):
out that you were pregnant? Very.
Excited. Yeah, yes, we were very excited.
We had had a miscarriage before this pregnancy, so it was kind
of hard. So there was some anxiety in the
first trimester, being sure thatI didn't miscarry again.
Before he went in, he made sure I had anything and everything I
needed. Anytime I said I was hungry, he
made sure I ate whatever I wanted, made sure I stayed
(18:51):
hydrated. He was on top of my prenatal
vitamins and all that stuff. That's so nice.
That must have been really hard.Then when he left, it was.
It was very, very difficult whenthat happened.
It took a couple days. It hit me.
I was like, oh wow, I'm actuallygoing to do this by myself type
of thing. Took a minute to process.
It was definitely rough. I was just, you know, this is
not happening. We finally made it past the
(19:14):
first trimester. We're getting ready to have this
baby and it's like this isn't happening.
It was rushing for sure. How did you get through it?
How did you process that? Literally, my thought process is
I don't have an option. I don't have any other choice
but to. And then I just didn't let
myself collapse. Believe me, I wanted to.
I wanted to fall apart, but I didn't let myself because I have
(19:35):
this child. I'm all he has right now, and I
don't have an option but to keepgoing.
Yeah. I'm trying to think how I would
feel and I don't have kids, but I feel like I'd be angry at him.
Yeah. Did you feel that?
What were your emotions towards him?
I was definitely. Mad in a way.
Some days I am angry still. I don't take it out of him.
I have my own emotional roller coasters that I go through just
(19:56):
about every other day. There are times where I'm angry
especially, like if I'm struggling financially or if
they're just nice. Like I really just want him
there and just be there with me.If you hear my little one of
them. Yeah, he's so cute.
But yeah, there is this night I'm mad because I need you here.
You know, I need help with thesebills.
I need help with these kids doing it pretty much by myself.
(20:18):
Like, I'm really, really mad. But I'll take it out on him
because I know that wasn't his intention to end up where he
was. Yeah.
He wanted to be a dad again. He has other children, too.
He didn't want to be there. Yeah.
He feels bad about ending up where he is.
I'm not going to make him feel worse by taking things out on
him because he goes through it every day.
I know he does. That's so.
Mature of you that you're able to be angry and still, like,
(20:41):
process it on your own, yeah. But there are times where I
don't want to be mature about it.
What would you? Say was the hardest part of
that, that time period from him being incarcerated to giving
birth. What was the hardest part for
you? One of the.
Hardest things for me was going through the pregnancy, the
milestone, because he never got to fill a kick or anything
before he went in. Wow.
It was until a few weeks later, experiencing all of that, going
(21:02):
to the ultrasound, yeah, that was that was hard going through
all of that and not being able to show him any of it or
anything. Any time that I could go to the
doctor and have him on the phoneand looking for the heartbeat or
something like that, I made sureI put it on speakerphone and I
let him hear it best I could. And that's something that I
tried to do. But besides giving birth, that
(21:23):
was probably the hardest part. And then when you actually went
through the birth, was he able to participate at all?
He was. Not He was in county jail for
about four months and then when he got transferred to prison,
takes a while for you to be ableto use the phone.
And the week that I was getting ready to give birth because they
moved him to one prison and thenthey had him wait there for a
(21:46):
couple of days because the busesrun on the schedule when they
take them to whatever facility. So they took him to one prison,
I had him wait there, and then they took him to the facility
that he was actually going to begoing to.
So it was like a solid week. I hadn't heard anything.
Got to the point where like, I was calling around, I'm like,
where is he? And there was a website where
you can look up where the offender is and it says he was
(22:07):
at this in prison he was going to.
And they're like, oh, he's not here.
And I'm like, and where the hellis he?
Like, I'm trying to like, give him updates about the baby and
everything. And they're like, oh, well, he's
this place waiting for a bus. So yeah, the day that I gave
birth was actually the day he got to where he was going.
He managed to get a call out to me.
He managed to get a guard that acell phone.
So he said, listen, that my wife's getting ready to go on
(22:29):
the labor. I really need to call her and
check on her if they let him call and he called me and it was
right after the birth was done. I said by the way your son is
beautiful. He's 7 lbs six oz.
I could tell he almost started crying on the phone.
He said please tell him I love him and then I miss him and I
can't wait to see him as you're.Telling this story, I'm sitting
here so angry for you that you couldn't get a hold of him.
(22:54):
And then now I'm ready to cry because now you're telling me
the story of him. I can't even imagine what he was
going through. Did you have a scheduled birth
or was it just when it was time?The.
Night before I went go shopping and I got his diaper bag and it
was 3 days before my due date anyway so his sister took me to
the hospital. I woke her up at 4:15 in the
(23:16):
morning. I woke up I was hurting, I was
having contractions. I waited about 30 minutes didn't
know if they was side and I wokeher up.
I think I'm having the baby. Sure enough, I ended up having
him 10:00 in the morning that day.
Oh my gosh, so his. Sister was there with you.
She was there. She was in the room pretty much
taking pictures. She left right after I had him
just because she had to go back to work.
(23:37):
Yeah, I didn't have anybody elsethere with me or anything like
that. And I couldn't call him and tell
him or send a message or something like that.
And you're. Getting ready to give birth And
is it on your mind that he's missing?
Yeah, yeah. Any twin contractions.
I kept telling her I want him here.
Pretty much the only thing that was on my mind, like I was in
pain and everything. Anybody that's been through
(23:57):
labor can tell you like, oh, believe me, when you're having
contractions, you feel all of it.
But in between, just one of the things, like I was looking for
him hit me like, oh, wait, he's in jail.
It was very, very emotional timeto like, I was mad.
I was sad, but I was happy because I was bringing our
bullying to the world. It was one of the hardest things
that I've ever went through. Yeah, I can't even imagine.
(24:19):
Did you guys name the baby together?
We did. You did.
Yeah, we had. A name picked out before he went
in because we were so excited about it because we had a
miscarriage before and we had names picked out if it was going
to be a boy or a girl, so we already knew what we wanted to
name our baby. What was it like the days
afterwards? How was he able to be involved?
How is he feeling? Did he communicate with you on
(24:40):
that? The moment he was able to get on
a phone, he called me, wanted updates.
He's like, how's my baby? How are you?
How are you feeling? How are you feeling?
How did everything go? Was there problems?
That everything was fine? You know, I had the epidural.
He was OK. He was 7 lbs six oz.
He's beautiful. He looks like you.
He has your birthmark. It's like the same exact one,
just in a different. It's adorable.
(25:01):
And I asked, are you OK? I haven't talked to you in like
a week. How are you feeling and how your
mindset? Because he's off bipolar, he has
very high highs and very low lows when it comes to emotions.
So worried about him. And I was like, are you OK?
He's like, yeah, I've just been worried about you.
After I told him everything, he's like, I am so sorry that I
wasn't there. And I said, it's OK.
We've been preparing for this. We knew this was going to
(25:23):
happen. We've had a few months to kind
of wrap our minds around. And I said, it's OK.
Don't, don't get yourself in a negative place.
Not constructive. Let's just focus on the
positives. Our boy is here.
He is happy, he is healthy and he still apologizes to me every
day. He wants to be here.
Did. He get to meet him, he has met.
Him whenever he was able to havevisits, the first thing I did,
(25:44):
you know, after he was born as Iapplied to go visit him and at
the facility that he's at, they allow contact visits.
So we can sit in a room together.
There's no glass between us, no phones or anything like that.
We can sit at a table and he cangreet us, hug us and kiss us
when we arrive. He can do that also when we
leave and then he can hold him intermittently.
He got to meet him when he was about, I'm going to say 3 weeks
(26:07):
old is whenever I can. Oh.
So it happened fast. Normally approvals take forever.
Oh, we got. Lucky our facility it only took
about a week for classes. And what was that like?
Very. Emotional for me, I was very
excited because I hadn't been able to touch him now in six
months. Wow.
I wasn't able to touch him or hug him or anything like that
because whenever he was in county jail, we could visit, you
(26:28):
know, there's glass between you and you know, he talked on a
phone that connected to the other side.
Finally, just so glad that I could hug him and he got to hold
him and it made my heart so warm.
He could feed him whenever it was time for him to eat, so it
was very heart warming. It was a very happy moment, but
a very emotional moment because I knew it only lasts for a
certain amount of time, but not all good things.
(26:51):
And definitely worth it because I can't imagine the pain for.
Sure of having to. Separate them.
Awful. There were times our son is
about 18 months old now that's about he's at that toddler age
and ever since he was born. So you know, dad, dad, you know
this dad, dad. And that would have him talk.
So he's used to him. And so now whenever we go to
visit, he cries. Our son cries whenever it's time
(27:12):
for us to leave. We told ourselves that too.
And when he gets a little older,he's going to start asking me
questions. He's going to wonder why you
can't come with us. He's going to he's going to get
upset. So this is something that we're
going to have to prepare for as well.
And he said, I know it's rough. The moment he's back in the
cell, he's calling me. Making sure that I'm OK, he's OK
(27:32):
makes me. So emotional because it's so
sad. And I know that there's other
circumstances in Nick's prison where I know some people that
aren't able to see their son. It breaks my heart because these
fathers want to be involved. The mistakes that they did or
didn't make, whatever circumstances that and landed
them there and then, yeah, they're being separated from
(27:54):
their child when yeah, they don't want to be.
And there's so many fathers thatdon't want to be a part of their
children's lives. It's one of the things.
That frustrates me is I tell people, you know, I said he's an
amazing dad and they're like, well, if he's such a good dad,
then why is he locked up? And I'm like, I'm about to cut
you out. That has nothing to do with it.
I don't care what you have to say.
(28:15):
He's an amazing dad. You can any of his kids and even
my kids that I had with my ex-husband who's super cool by
the way. We have a great comparative
relationship. He's aware of the situation, he
knows him even he'll tell you he's a good dad.
And my other kids that I had with him, they love him.
They him as their stepdad. He's a great father.
I'm sick of the stigma that people are just like, hey,
(28:38):
they're incarcerated, must not be good parents or they must not
care about their child if they're locked up.
You know what? That has nothing to do with it.
You don't know their story. You don't know what they did.
You don't know what they're like.
You're right. That's stigma.
It's really hard to overcome. It's nice to hear that your
other kids also think he's such a good dad.
Oh, they love him. What do?
You do that helps him stay bonded with his child throughout
(29:00):
this time. Thing you can recommend to try
and keep that closeness. Every time he calls, and if I'm
home and our son isn't a daycareor anything like that, and he'll
call and he's like, can I talk to him?
And I was like, yeah, I put him on speaker and I bring the phone
close because even though if he don't say anything, he still
hears his voice. And he'll say it's like, hi, my
baby, hi. And then my son goes dad, dad,
(29:22):
dad, dad. Yeah.
And I was like his daddy. He'll talk to him and
everything. He's like, he'd be good for
mommy. I love you.
Still have their own little conversation.
So sweet you have other kids. How did you navigate that
conversation? Shut them.
Down and I was like, OK, listen,something going on and I told
him how he went to jail. He's not going to be here for a
(29:43):
few years and like, well, why? And you know, I tried to explain
it to them best I could but it doesn't mean he doesn't love
you. He loves you.
Sometimes they talk to him on the phone and they ask him how
he's doing. Was it a?
Hard conversation to have the kids seem so well adjusted to
it, and I feel like part of it is the way that someone would
explain that to kids. I'm, I'm also curious because as
(30:04):
you're growing up, you're thinking, OK, prison's bad,
jail's bad. So how do you have that
conversation and keep it positive?
I said whenever. You make a mistake as a child,
you got to slap on the wrist. I said when you're a grown up
and you make a mistake, most of the time, depending on what the
mistake is, if it's really bad, you end up going to jail.
And I said that's what happened here.
He made a mistake and now he hasto pay for it by going to jail
(30:25):
and it sucks and we missed him, but that's just something that
we have to deal with. Just because you make a mistake
does not make you a bad person. Take the time to learn from your
mistake and make sure you don't do it again.
That way you don't go back to jail and you can be with your
family. And kind of how I navigated
that. How'd they?
Take it my. Little son.
He's autistic and he bonded withmy guy more heavily than the
(30:48):
other one, so he's upset. Sometimes he'll come to me and
say, mom, you know, I really miss him, but they all ask me
questions and you know that. When's he coming home, mom?
And I'm like, well, right now it's April 2029.
So. Well, that's a long time.
He said, I'll be this old and I'll be this old.
And I'm like, yeah, I know. That's where we're at at the
moment. You did such a wonderful job of
(31:09):
explaining it to kids for them to understand at that age I just
took. Time to think about what exactly
I wanted to say in a way that they could understand it.
Because you know, my kids that Ihave, they're 11108 and then I
have my 5 year old and then I have my 18.
My 5 year old, she was three whenever he went in.
So she really doesn't remember awhole lot.
She doesn't really ask a lot of questions.
(31:31):
My older boys though, because that's four boys, one girl.
So my older boys, they were asking me questions.
They knew him very well and theyremember the ones that I really
explained it to, to an 11, a 10 and an 8 year old, right?
To where? They could understand and that's
just what I went with. I'm.
Amazed at everything that you doand that many kids that you're
(31:52):
navigating so well. How do you do it?
Like do you have support? My whole family lives in another
state. Yeah, pretty much just me.
Of course, my older kids dad, he's wonderful.
We were one week on, one week off.
He has them for a week, I have them for a week.
So I get a little bit of a breakwhen it comes to that.
He's always like hey, you need anything, let me know.
(32:13):
I have friends, but all of them work.
If I'm a sick child or somethinglike that, I have to take off
work and I'm home and stuff. So it is pretty much just me.
Most of my support system was out of the state, right?
And this is probably not a possibility for you to even go
closer to your family because ofyour ex-husband, correct?
I am. Sucker I am.
Unfortunately, we did talk aboutmoving back up north because we
(32:36):
all lived up there at one point in time.
Yeah. And so we thought about going
back up. Of course, it would be after he
was out before that happened, even he told me, he said if you
need support, if you want to move out of state and to be with
your family, you can. And I was like, well, honey, you
forget my other kids are here. And I'm not going to leave them
behind and I'm not going to takethem from their father.
And with our parenting plans, there's not really an option
(32:58):
anyway. So how do you find the strength
to do everything I tell myself? I don't have an option and I
just need to do it and get over it.
That's the only way that I'm able to do because it just hits
me that because my older kids, Ihave their dad, if anything were
to happen to me, they would havehim.
Well, my youngest son doesn't have that.
I'm all he's got. I have to do everything for him
(33:21):
to make sure he's taken care of and good.
Sure, he has everything he needs.
I just told myself that I'm all he has and to get it together.
And I don't give myself an option for failure or to slip.
And of course, there are things that happen in life happens and
you can't control everything. So yeah, there are setbacks.
Just like last week, I was home all week.
I wasn't able to work all week because my son had Type A flu
(33:42):
and he wasn't able to go to daycare.
Do you have moments of self-care?
Please tell me you do Rarely. When I find the time, if I'm not
doing laundry, doing dishes or cleaning, cooking or work or
doing school work, Most of my self-care moments honestly is I
take a shower and I like a mask that'll really do a whole lot of
(34:02):
self-care. Most of my self-care honestly is
just laying in the bed and just scrolling tick tock a little bit
before I go to pet shop. I know a.
Lot of moms that can relate to that statement yes, zoning and.
Scroll and just turn my mind fora second.
Let's be like, listen, my kids are in bed, my house is clean,
I'm fed and my kids are fed. Everything is fine.
I'm going to lay in bed for a minute and I want to turn my
(34:23):
mind off and I want to mindlessly scroll tick tock at
my numbing dust and just relax for a second.
So that's the majority of myselfhere that was worried.
For a second, I just can't imagine.
We were saying before we startedrecording, I don't have any kids
and I have a dog. Sometimes my house is a mess or
I'm not cooking or whatever, andI can't imagine that many kids
(34:43):
and having to do it alone. Knowing your partner is not
voluntarily not there, it's so much harder something.
That I thought about. It's like you're grieving
somebody. Yeah, still alive.
It's almost like grieving a death.
But of course they're not dead, but they're not there.
You're reading somebody who's still alive, which is that much
harder. You know that they want to be
(35:04):
there, but they can't, and they're away from you and they
don't want to be. It's not like they have an
option to come back to you for acertain amount of time.
There's not really a way to healfrom that.
So it's like you're constantly grieving the loss, like their
presence, them being there, being there for you, for support
or you help around the house or financially, whatever.
It's all a loss. So it's like you're grieving a
(35:25):
loss of them being there with you.
I think that's kind of harder. I don't want to say it's harder
than grieving and death because of course it probably isn't, but
I feel like it. You can't heal from that.
There's no healing from that. The ache is always going to be
there and the sting doesn't fadeand it's just one of those
things that you just like. How do you recover from that?
(35:48):
I don't really don't think you do, especially if you have that
relationship to where you reallydo miss them.
They really want to be there with you.
You have a really tight relationship.
They're your person. There's no healing from that.
It's like you're stuck in limbo while you're waiting for him.
He's a huge part of your family,he is.
I've even told my husband this. I said he is more of a husband
(36:09):
to me than you were. And my ex-husband and I got
married very young. We had no idea what we were
doing. A lot of resentment there, but
we healed from that. In hindsight, is there anything
that you would do different or would have done differently?
Any kind of advice for anybody? I wouldn't have spent so much
time being mad at him. You know, I had every right to
be mad, but I wouldn't have spent so much energy being upset
(36:32):
at him. Not something anyone could have
controlled. I just wouldn't have been mad
for so long because I know he didn't intend that.
He didn't want to be there. He didn't want to be in the
situation he was in. And that ended up leading into
him getting incarcerated. Like he didn't mean for that to
happen. So that's why I would definitely
would go back and I wouldn't spend as much time being mad at
(36:53):
him as I was. And it sounds like you've
forgiven him too. I have.
Of course there are days where you're going to struggle and
like there are days where you think you're totally fine,
you've moved past it, you're OK,and then some days it just hits
you like a ton of bricks. Can't be emotionally stable and
perfect all the time. Everybody's going to feel like
(37:13):
that at some point. It is OK to have emotions.
Just don't stay there. You got to pick yourself up the
floor and keep going with it andjust move past it.
And you can take a day and you can be upset and you can say
whatever, but it's also important to not take it out on
your partner. They know.
Do you have any other advice forsomeone who's going through
something similar? Take it a.
(37:34):
Day at a time, everyone loves toplan for the future and talk
about all the amazing things you're going to do when you get
out. And that's amazing to have those
conversations. But where you are in the here
and now, take it a day at a time.
Tackle today's problems today and the future stuff.
Realize that is in the future and cross that bridge when you
get to it. They'll overwhelm yourself.
And just know that I can only doso much I love.
(37:56):
That I think that's great. I know he's going to hear this
one day. I'd love for you to just tell me
a little bit more about what kind of human he is, what kind
of person he is, and why he's somuch more than his incarceration
if you asked. Him for something, he would move
mountains to make it happen. If whatever you asked of him,
there were times, you know, we were financially struggling and
(38:19):
I would say trying to figure outwhat to do for dinner, he's
hungry, whatever else. If he realized that there was
only enough for one, he wouldn'ttouch it.
He made sure that I ate and he said he'd figure out something
for himself. He is just comes off as a jerk,
but he is actually one of the most thoughtful, one of the most
kind people that I've ever met. He has such an interesting
thought process, I think becausehe can take certain situations
(38:40):
and if all I can see is a negative, he always has a
positive way of looking at it. Very hard working.
Who he is as a human is him and his ex-wife.
No matter what kind of terms they were on, if she called him
and said hey, the kids need thisand no matter what he was doing,
he'd look at me and say hey, thekids need this.
You want to come with me? I'm Michael.
Of course I'm going. We made sure it happened as a
(39:02):
team. That's who he is as a human and
I love that about him. He's my best friend.
I'm going to be we kind of graphic for a minute.
I was in the hospital with COVIDback in 2021 and I was really
bad off. I had bacterial pneumonia with
it. I was in the hospital for three
weeks. He took care of my kids.
This is before we had our child made sure they were fed and
(39:22):
happy and healthy. He would bring me food in the
hospital bed ridden for, you know, days.
And so I needed physical therapyto be able to, you know, walk
around, you know, with even catching my breath and
everything because my lungs tooka really big hit.
He did my physical therapy with me.
He made sure I took all my medication.
He anything that anyone ever needed.
He cares about you. Anything you need, he is there.
(39:43):
Oh my. Gosh, you're, you're bringing me
to tears over here that these things happen, Believe me.
Yeah, there are times if I need to cry.
Another piece of advice that I want to give people, if you need
to cry, then free cry. There's no shame.
There's it's not going to be an award for the toughest one out
there that never shows emotion with everything they're dealing
with. So grateful.
That I got to hear your story because I think it's just so
(40:05):
nice to hear you just had a really nice way of portraying
what it was like and the maturity that you had in
handling the situation. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for sharing the story because I think a lot of people
are going to relate to it and I think the advice that you've
given is going to be really helpful for a lot of people.
The forgiving. Part it took me a long time to
fully forget them. So if anyone feels guilty, see
(40:27):
about Oh, I haven't forgiven him.
I feel guilty, you know, for notbeing here and I feel like I
should. You need to do that on your own
terms, on your timeline. Don't feel pressured to be like,
Oh, I should be past this at this point.
No, get out on your own terms. If you need to go to therapy.
I went to therapy to try to workit out yourself internally when
it comes to that, you know, dealing with what reality is
(40:48):
going to be like. You forgive when you're ready to
forgive and don't feel bad if you haven't gotten there yet.
Like I love this platform too. I feel like, you know, it's
helping a lot of people, especially like if you're
dealing with like, I don't know what to do, know how to feel, I
don't know where to go from here.
I think this platform is really awesome and helping people with
that. So that's why I was so excited
to be on here and talk to you guys and everything.
(41:10):
And now I know why because you have so much information to
share that can be helpful, so I so appreciate that.
Do you ever want? To talk to me again feel free to
call and I have no problem getting on here and talk to you
again. I love to talk to you guys.
I love you guys. Oh.
Thank you. I love when people say that
because it means a lot. Thank you so much again, Ashley,
appreciate it. Have a good night.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.