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March 31, 2024 47 mins

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The scriptures are a tapestry rich in types and symbols of Jesus Christ. After being deeply betrayed by someone close to him, Randy Brown, host of the Spiritual Survival Podcast, struggled to forgive. It was only after reading the story of Abigail and David in the Old Testament that his eyes were opened to a new aspect of Christ's Atoning Sacrifice. Together we discuss how our Savior is truly the Great Mediator as He stands between us and those who have wronged us.  It is through Him that we can still find peace and forgiveness in a devastating situation even when our offender has not sought reconciliation. To wrap things up, we apply this new perspective to the Last Days we are living in and how critical it is for disciples of Jesus Christ to be able to fully lean into His Atonement in order to find refuge and "Think Celestial" when persecutions come. 

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Episode Transcript

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Lily (00:06):
Hello everyone and welcome to.
More Than Coincidence,remembering Jesus Christ in your
Story.
As the author and finisher ofour faith, our Savior writes
personal experiences into eachof our lives which can later
strengthen, empower and bring uspeace upon reflection.
This podcast is dedicated tosharing these anchoring memories

(00:26):
from everyone's unique storiesin order to collectively
remember and testify of thereality of Jesus Christ and His
presence in our lives.
I'm your host, lily, and I'mvery excited to share these
experiences together.
Hi everybody, good evening.
Tonight on the podcast we haveRandy Brown who is the host of

(00:47):
his podcast, spiritual Survival.
How are you doing?

Randy Brown (00:51):
I'm wonderful.
Thank you for thank you forthinking of me, and I look
forward to this.
Thanks.

Lily (00:57):
Would you mind introducing yourself a little bit, so for
everybody.
Yeah, I'm.

Randy Brown (01:00):
Randy Brown and, as Lily mentioned, I host a
podcast called SpiritualSurvival.
I started that in June I thinkit was the last week of June and
the reason I did it.
I was actually sitting in thetemple and I was kind of
thinking a little bit about mypatriarchal blessing, which

(01:23):
counsels me to be valiant in the, valiant in my testimony of
Jesus Christ.
Yeah, and it felt like sinceI've been living here in Utah
it's been a little difficult toreally share my testimony in a
way that I would valiant, and soI know some other people that
have started podcasts and youknow I've gone online and I've

(01:47):
thought about it and then Ithought better of it and decided
not to and the spirit just kindof this one day when I was in
the temple just kind of knockedme over that I need to do it.
So I had to kind of go out mycomfort zone and gave it a try
and put a couple episodes outthere, and I've just kept going.

(02:10):
So here I am now.

Lily (02:12):
That's incredible.
I think it's really interestingbecause it was last year at
about this time where I startedfeeling the spirit tell me, hey,
you should start a podcast, andI was the same.
I was like, oh, like I don'tknow if I should be doing this,
and then I finally got the gutsto do it and I released in
November.
So I'm glad that you also, likeyou know, followed that
prompting and I think it's coolthat the Lord is trying to guide

(02:33):
us to be able to connect withpeople in this way and share
everything that we're learning,right?
I think it's so neat.

Randy Brown (02:40):
Yeah, I've always been blessed with a testimony of
Jesus Christ and of theRestoration.
I grew up in Texas.
I was one of about four or fiveLatter-day Saints in my high
school so we all kind of had tostand strong together.
Yeah, you know we were tested alot but it made us really

(03:01):
appreciate what we had and itwas very valuable for me to be
able to do that.
So, yeah, grew up in Texas.
It's kind of funny I tellpeople I married my next door
neighbor.
My wife was just around thecorner, actually from Really we

(03:23):
lived.
Her dad was my bishop and thenmy president, but it wasn't
until we were both at BYU.
I'm about five years older thanher, so we didn't.
There was no romantic interestuntil we got to college.

Lily (03:38):
Yeah.

Randy Brown (03:39):
We met on the first day of fall semester in 1983,.
I think and we went to theCougar Eat for a doughnut and
there you go.
Here we are now had our 40thanniversary Sunday.

Lily (03:59):
Whoa, congratulations, that's awesome.
We're going on our 10th, me andmy husband, this year.
We'll catch up to you guyseventually.

Randy Brown (04:09):
Yeah, we'll keep going, but we're not going to
stop.

Lily (04:12):
We won't either.
That's awesome, well, randy.
So let me ask you the questionthen what memories do you have
that you reflect on, that prickyour heart and remembrance of
your Savior Jesus Christ?

Randy Brown (04:24):
Well, when you first said that you'd be asking
me that question there's so many, but I thought of one that's
been super, super impactful.
That's the one I'd like toshare today.
So back when my wife and I werefirst married, I had an
experience that was very, verypainful.

(04:47):
Somebody who is in a positionof trust violated it, and it was
very deeply painful to me, andthe injustice was so hard to

(05:10):
deal with being young like I was, and so I went through a period
of time where I just consumedwith this sense of injustice
that had been done to me,feeling so desperate to make
this person pay for what theydid I guess you say violated and

(05:32):
deceived.
I know I'd handled it a lotdifferently today than I did
when I was in my mid-20s, but Icarried a burden that was so
heavy that I couldn't find peace.
All I could think of was makingthis person pay Revenge.

(05:56):
It was in the fall that ithappened, so it was close to a
general conference and ingeneral conference I believe it
was Elder Boyd K Packer he gavea talk titled the Healing Balm
of Gilead.
It's all about this power thatthe Atonement contains that

(06:21):
enables us to forgive.
And this talk, it was so neededfor me and it felt like it just
penetrated my heart with suchamazing power Because I was
really.
I felt like I was walkingaround with a backpack full of
weights.

Lily (06:42):
Yeah, it's heavy, it's really heavy.

Randy Brown (06:46):
And so, when conference was over, I went to
the Lord and I pleaded with Himto set me free from this bondage
that I was in, because I feltlike I couldn't carry it another
day, another minute, and itjust I don't know how long it
was, but it was very, veryquickly.
The Lord took it away, and Imean, the person still hadn't

(07:12):
resolved the issue with me, butas far as my part, it was taken
away and the burden wascompletely lifted.

Lily (07:20):
And it was healed, and it was healed.

Randy Brown (07:22):
Yeah, and so it was a miraculous part of the
Atonement that I had never, hadnever really given a lot of
thought or had to use my lifebefore.
Yeah, and I came across thisquote.
It says being mistreated is themost important aspect of

(07:44):
mortality.
Raternity itself depends on howwe view those who mistreat us.
I would have never, never,thought of that before, but it
was like the Lord gave me adifficult experience to teach me
something very, very importantabout the Atonement at a fairly
young age, Because in church wetypically talk about two aspects

(08:11):
of the Atonement.
One is that he saves us fromspiritual death.
He saves us from our sins andthe penalty and the suffering of
our own personal sins, and thenwe talk about how he saves us
from physical death through theresurrection.
But I've learned that there's athird aspect to the Atonement.
That's probably many, butthere's a third very big aspect

(08:33):
to the Atonement that we don'toften address.
That is that Christ's Atonementalso saves us from the sins
that are committed against usRight, and then he can make us
whole from those sins that arecommitted against us and in a

(08:54):
way this allows the Savior tocome and stand between us and
the person who has offended us,and he saves us from committing
this sin of retaliating Rightand when someone wounds us that

(09:15):
deeply, that's about all we canthink of as some form of
retaliation or some form of.
We want justice.

Lily (09:22):
Exactly.

Randy Brown (09:25):
And so it was really a miracle.
It was an aspect of theAtonement that impacted my
testimony, impacted probably thedirection of my life moving
forward, and it was a little bitlater, I thought, years later,
I would say that I came acrosssomething in the Scriptures

(09:50):
no-transcript, I guessdemonstrates this very thing
that I experienced, and it's inthe Old Testament.
It's in 1 Samuel and it's inchapter 25.
It's the story of Abigail andit's a story that not that many
people really are familiar with.

(10:11):
It's more a little story sittingin there, but it opened my mind
to the fact that the OldTestament is filled with types
of Jesus Christ.
Every story, and I'd say almostevery story in the Old
Testament, if you break it down,it's the story of Christ being

(10:34):
told through types, and so thisstory of Abigail, abigail is a
powerful type of our Savior,jesus Christ.
So there's three maincharacters in this story.
Again, it's in 1 Samuel 25, andI'll go through some of the
verses in that chapter.
One character is David.
Another character is a mannamed Nabal N-A-B-A-L, and David

(11:00):
was the one who was offended.
Nabal is the one who was theoffender and Abigail is the type
of Christ.
She's the Christ-like characterthat provides the healing and
the restoration.
That was very typical of what Iexperienced.
And so it teaches an aspect ofthe Atonement that's helped me

(11:23):
in a very, very powerful way.
So again, david.
He was the one who was offendedAt this time.
David was forced into thewilderness just to survive
because King Saul was so jealousof him.
So he was living in thewilderness, basically with a
band of men.
So he was already kind ofexperiencing an injustice

(11:48):
already.
But he showed a lot ofintegrity While he was in the
wilderness with this he had.
I think he had about 400 men Ican't remember the exact number
and while they were in thewilderness, nabal this person
who becomes the offender.
He was a fairly wealthy man.
He had many, many flocks ofsheep and as his flocks of sheep

(12:12):
were being led by theseshepherds through the wilderness
, there was always this riskthat robbers would come and
pillage and take the sheep andfor sustenance for themselves.
But while these shepherds weregoing through the wilderness,
david and his men protected them.
They protected Nabal's flocksand just very he showed a lot of

(12:39):
integrity and goodness towardssomeone that they didn't
necessarily know.
And then later on in the story,david and his men are in the
wilderness.
Those shepherds have taken thesheep back to Nabal.
But David and his men weregoing through a tough time and
they were in need of sustenance,and so David sent a couple of

(13:01):
his men to Nabal saying you know, we're the ones who helped you
out.
We're in some trouble.
David sent us to you.
Would you be willing to help usout.
And the scriptures talk aboutNabal as a foolish man, and it
says that even after David hadprotected his flocks, nabal

(13:25):
denied even knowing David.
So when David's men came to him, he refused to help them.
He said I don't even know whyshould I?
help.
He kind of just rebuffed him, Iguess you'd say.
And so when the word came backto David that Nabal had treated
him this way, he was kind oflike I was, he was

(13:47):
understandably angry.
He was furious with his men.
He prepared 400 of his men togird on their swords and to go
get them, march into the palaceor the place where Nabal lived
and just slaughter them andbring justice to all of them.
And he just felt this.

(14:09):
You know what he thought wasrighteous indignation, I guess
you'd say Right.
So the third character isAbigail, and Abigail
unfortunately for her, wasNabal's wife Talks about Abigail

(14:30):
as this woman of beautifulcountenance, and just that
describes her as this amazing,wonderful person.
And so her part in this storyis that she demonstrates another
aspect of the atonement, andit's how the atonement provides
succor and grace for those whoare sinned against.

(14:53):
And you know, being the wife ofNabal, she probably experienced
a lot of injustice herself,right, she probably knew it
firsthand, and so, in a way,she's a perfect type for Christ,
because you know whoexperienced the greatest
injustice, you know exactly Ever.
It's the Savior Jesus Christ,His paradox of him being the the

(15:18):
only person who did not deserveinjustice experienced the
greatest injustice.
So it's such an amazing,amazing parallel and such an
amazing type.
So if the listeners are havetheir scriptures out, they may
want to go to First Samuel,Chapter 25.

(15:42):
I'm going to share a few of theverses.
I'm going to verse 18.
It says then Abigail made hasteand took 200 loaves and two
bottles of wine and five sheepready dressed and five measures
of parched corn and 100 clustersof raisins and 200 cakes of

(16:03):
figs and laid them on asses.
And so, basically, she tookeverything she could to provide
for their needs.
Right, and here this woman isgoing, you know, on donkeys,
full of you know, loaded downwith supplies and things that

(16:24):
they needed and right if youskip down to verse 23,.
It says when Abigail saw David,she hasted and lighted off the
ass with the donkey and fellbefore David on her face and
bowed herself to the ground.
So here she is, she's.
She's interceding between herfoolish husband right who had
sinned against David, and Davidthe one who's offended.

(16:47):
And then, in verse 24, and fellat his feet and said upon me,
Lord, upon me, let this iniquitybe.
That's that just grabbed at me.
It's like she's standingbetween David and this foolish
husband of hers and saying letthis sin be upon me Right.

(17:10):
And and this gave me an imageof Jesus Christ standing between
me and the person who offendedme so deeply and saying I've
already paid the price ofjustice for this person who's
offended you.
I've paid it in full, and thissin is upon me now.

(17:36):
And I ask you to forgive me, andso the thought of me having to
forgive my savior.

Lily (17:42):
Yeah, that's a little different.

Randy Brown (17:44):
Touched me so deeply.
Yeah, how could I not, right,how could I not forgive him if
he's already paid for it?
He's taking it upon him andhe's asking me to let it go and
to trust it.
You know he's paid the price ofjustice.
And then verse 24 goes on andlet thine handmaiden I pray

(18:04):
these speak in thine audienceand hear the words of thine
handmaiden.
So this, this little obscurestory in the middle of the Old
Testament, teaches how Christtakes upon himself the sins of
those who have wronged us.
And then I'll skip down toverse 28.

(18:26):
It says I pray the forgive, thetrespass of thine handmaid.
Again, you know, christ havingtaken upon himself the sins of
those who have wronged us,christ is now asking us to
forgive him the trespass.
So this I mean the OldTestament is amazing how it's

(18:50):
got these, these treasures thatare hidden.
It's got the story of Christhidden throughout it.
It's got deeper aspects to theatonement than than we ever
realize until we search itdeeply.

Lily (19:05):
Right.

Randy Brown (19:06):
And then, skipping down to verse 32, says and David
said unto Abigail Blessed bethe Lord, god of Israel, which
sent thee this day to meet me.
So David is so touched by thisoffering and this sacrifice made

(19:26):
, made by Abigail, that itcompletely changed his heart.
Here we're seeing an example inthe Old Testament of a mighty
change of heart like the Book ofMormon talks about.
Exactly, and verse 33 says andblessed be thy advice and
blessed be thou, which has keptme this day from coming to shed

(19:48):
blood.
So not only did her offeringand her sacrifice save her
husband, but it also saved DavidNot only from the wounds of
being offended, but it saved himfrom actually going and
committing a grave sin.

Lily (20:07):
Right and he probably would have felt the remorse and
having to carry that like therest of his life, like there
were so many things.

Randy Brown (20:14):
Yeah, and to this point in David's life, he had
lived a very, very righteouslife.
Right, you know, he was in, theLord, was preparing him for
some very important things, andso this, this Abigail, is a
powerful type of Jesus Christ,coming into his life at a very
difficult time and and savinghim, just as he saved me, from

(20:40):
my need to exact revenge fromthis person.

Lily (20:44):
Right.

Randy Brown (20:45):
So, and then if you skip down a couple more verses,
in verse 35 says so Davidreceived her of her hand that
which she had brought him.
In other words, he receivedthis offering that she brought,
and her offering was sufficient.
It was everything that theyneeded and, in that same way,
what Christ offers us when, whenhe stands between us, the

(21:09):
person who sinned against this,is everything we need.

Lily (21:12):
Yeah.

Randy Brown (21:13):
If we, if we deny that, we're saying his, his
atonement isn't infinite.
It will provide everything weneed.
It will fully satisfy thedemand of justice, right?
So David?
David received it for him,that's which, which she had
brought him and said into her,go up in peace, into to thine

(21:35):
house.
See, I have hearkened to thyvoice and have accepted that
person.
So he's saying I've receivedyour gift, I've accepted it, you
know.
In other words, we could saythat Christ runs to our aid, and
the word that the scripturesuse for, you know, running to

(21:56):
our aid is that he suckers us.
So she had, she had providedfor him and and then, just like
David, we can be healed byreceiving of that offering.
And so, in essence, when we,when we are continuing to hold,
I don't want to say a grudge,but this much, it's more, it's

(22:19):
bigger than that it's deeperthan that, yeah.
To hold this, this need to makethem pay to, to exact justice
from somebody.
We're, in essence, we'redenying, we're denying the
offering of our savior.
We're denying, we're notwilling to accept the fullness

(22:42):
of Christ's atonement, or atleast maybe, maybe because we
perhaps don't understand thisaspect of the atonement.

Lily (22:49):
Well, and that's one thing , as you've been talking, that I
that really struck me isBecause we I've had another
person on that talked aboutforgiveness, right, and how we
need to forgive others and howwe think of sometimes as
forgiveness as a two way streetand it is, you know, both
parties and should maybe say,say apologize and say that
they're sorry, or at leastthat's what we teach our little
kids.

(23:09):
Right, go, say sorry and, youknow, make up.
But I do think that it's reallyamazing and powerful that
Christ can even just step in andjust say look, we're just
focused on you right now, rightand when and at the right time
he will focus on the otherperson who maybe doesn't want to
, you know, repent and apologizeyet and then later.

(23:31):
But it's incredible that he canjust look at that situation,
just with the individual who'sbeen wronged, and they can have
that peace and they can stillhave that healing.
Because I just think of youknow, I've had so many friends
and other people withexperiences with abuse, right,
and a lot of times with that,with those kinds of things you
can't there's no necessarilyreconciling with the abuser and

(23:55):
that person needs to find thehealing.
And so it's really amazing thatthe Savior can provide that.
He literally can heal just youand you can find that peace.
And that's exactly what thisstory is saying, which I think
is very powerful.

Randy Brown (24:11):
And in this instance, n'bal did not
reconcile with David Right, andif you go to verse 38, it says
about 10 days after that theLord smote N'Bal, that he died.

Lily (24:29):
Right.

Randy Brown (24:30):
And so, just as came to N'Bal, he did not repent
.
And in verse 39, when Davidheard that N'Bal was dead, he
said blessed be the Lord thathath pleaded the cause of my
reproach.
So, like you said, david was indesperate need of salvation

(24:52):
himself, salvation from thecondition of his heart, right.
And so we have a mighty changeof heart, and we all do, and
sometimes I think this is a waywe can be tested to see what is
the condition of our heart.

Lily (25:07):
Exactly.

Randy Brown (25:09):
So Christ offers us .
Well, I'll get to that in asecond.
But yeah.
David needed the salvation onhis part that Christ could
provide for him.
And Christ provided everything.
He provided the offering, thechange of heart.
And here you'll see, in theseverses he actually invites David

(25:31):
into a covenant.
And again it's symbolic.
But in verse 39, this is whenDavid had heard that Nabal was
dead he said Blessed be the Lordthat hath pleaded the cause of
my reproach from the hand ofNabal and hath kept his servant
from evil For the Lord.
Hath returned the wickedness ofNabal upon his own head.

(25:53):
And David sent and communedwith Abigail to take her to wife
.
So, interestingly, he actuallyprovided Abigail as a wife for
David, which throughoutscriptures is a type of covenant

(26:13):
.
And so Abigail is thisChrist-like figure, comes into a
covenant relationship withDavid, right.
So he has this almost like aborn-again experience, where his
heart is changed, experiencesthis mighty change of heart and

(26:34):
ascends into a covenantrelationship with the Savior.
So it's just.
The Old Testament is so amazingso I'll skip down to verse 40
and 41.
It says and when the servantsof David were come to Abigail,
to Carmel, they spake unto hersaying David sent us unto thee.
So he sends his servants toAbigail.

(26:55):
David sent us unto thee to takethee to him, to wife, and she
arose and bowed herself on herface to the earth and said
Behold, let thine handmaiden bea servant to wash the feet of
the servants of my Lord.
What a powerful type of exactlywhat Jesus Christ fulfilled

(27:19):
with his apostles that he becametheir servant and actually
washed their feet.
So here we see a token of acovenant that Christ, as the
servant of all, washed the feetof his disciples.
So just amazing, amazing depthand this is something that I

(27:46):
don't know if I'm perfect at ityet, but one of the other people
do things that hurt or offend.
I'm pretty quick to rememberthis story, because this is the
story of what Christ does for us, and in this very instance, 30

(28:07):
years after this event happened,I had an Abigail actually come
to me and repay everything thatthis person had taken from me.
It was fully restored, and,even though I'd forgiven and

(28:28):
didn't necessarily need to havethe debt repaid, the Lord sent
an Abigail to me who repaid thewhole thing, and so I think what
the Savior has taught me inthis is that forgiveness is not.
Forgiveness is for the one whodoes the forgiving, and if I

(28:55):
haven't forgiven the nabals inmy life, I haven't accepted the
fullness of his Atonement, and Iwant to accept every piece,
every part of the fullness ofthe Atonement that Jesus Christ

(29:16):
brought for me.
And this is a part of it.
It's not just for my own sinsor for overcoming death, but
learning to receive this type ofan offering from the Savior.
So that, to me, is one of themost powerful experiences I've

(29:41):
had with the Atonement of JesusChrist and something that will
always be with me and I'llalways remember, and I'm so glad
I could share it with you andyour listeners.

Lily (29:51):
Yeah, thank you.
I honestly I had never heardthat story before, but as you
were talking, I felt the Spiritconfirm that to me too.
That forgiveness is for us andI just can't wait to.
Even as I've been pondering onPresident Nelson saying thanks
Celestial over and over again,I've been really contemplating
like what does that really mean?
What does training ourselves,living up to our covenants and

(30:17):
practice thinking Celestial?
How does that pertain to thenext life?
And I feel like I've learnedthat it is right now we are
literally preparing to live aCelestial life and that's the
point, that's the whole point ofour covenants, that's the whole
point of everything.
So when we say things like this, that forgiveness is for us, I
just can't wait to, kind of whenI get to heaven and see and

(30:40):
have that my eyes opened,because I think we read these
stories and we have theseexperiences and we feel it.
But I think it will beincredible when we are able to
see that big picture and see, ohmy gosh, like this is the
Celestial law tied to thiselement of it, right?
Yeah, that's just somethingthat like came to my mind as you

(31:02):
were talking.

Randy Brown (31:04):
And I just read a book that I'll recommend to you
and your listeners.
It's called the Heavenly man.
A lot of people haven't heardof it, but I just read it over
the last couple of weeks andit's had a huge impact on me.
It's about a man in China whohe's probably about my age and

(31:26):
in his teenage years he gotconverted to Jesus Christ.
And that's kind of hard to doin China, right.
Anyway, he got converted toJesus Christ and it just made
such an impact on him, you know,mighty change of heart.
He committed to spending therest of his life spreading the
gospel in China.

Lily (31:45):
Yeah.

Randy Brown (31:46):
And he was so persecuted.
He went to prison four timesand the book tells about some of
the tortures that they put himthrough in prison and he had a
period of time where one of hiscellmate was a murderer and he

(32:07):
converted him.
All these people in the prisonthat were just abusing him and
persecuting him and torturinghim, they ended up being
converted to Christ and he saidI won't be in this prison one
minute longer than the Lorddesires me to be here, because

(32:28):
he'll deliver me.

Lily (32:29):
Wow.

Randy Brown (32:30):
And because of these tribulations that he went
through, all these amazingmiracles, he just walked out of
a like the highest securityprison in China, just walked out
.
The door's opened.
You know, just because heallowed these difficult things
to help him ascend spirituallyand to know his Savior at that

(32:56):
deeper levels, he was blessedwith miracles and I know, in the
coming days, as we get closerand closer to the Savior's
returning glory, we're going togo through persecutions, yeah,
and we're going to do suchunfair things to us and we're
going to need to drop on thisaspect of the Atonement.
Yes, thank you, mr President,quickly forgive, let Christ take

(33:20):
care of it and be empowered byhim to move forward in our, you
said, thinking, celestial.
That's exactly what it isascending to a celestial level
where we have the power of Godin great glory, like this
brother in China had heconverted thousands of people,
thousands of people, and he hadto.

(33:41):
He was on the run his wholelife from, you know, people
trying to throw him in prison.
And it kind of called me torepentance of.
How you know, we have such easeand wealth in this time of
freedom that we've lived in thatwe can't even comprehend what
other nations have been through.
I think we'll see some of thatvery soon and this principle of

(34:07):
letting the Savior take theabuses and the persecutions we
might experience I think will beinvaluable so that we can
continue our ascents and beendowed with power.

Lily (34:19):
Right, I'm really grateful also that you brought this up,
because I also have beenthinking about.
Obviously, this year in Americais going to be very interesting
.
It's already been reallyinteresting and it really has
been on my mind a lot.
How can we, as covenantdisciples of Jesus Christ, stand
up for truth, live ourcovenants, but also yeah, but

(34:42):
just also endure, becausethere's going to be so much.
Everybody is going toexperience it on both sides
Anybody.
There's going to be persecutionfrom everybody.
So how can we really truly sayyou know what here's our line
Like if you're welcome to comeover here, we'd love to talk to
you about the gospel and allthese things.
But also when we see people whoare going to treat us worse, I

(35:07):
think, than the saintsexperienced back when they were
fleeing, you know, missouri andNauvoo and all of these things,
there's going to be that leveland there's that level in the
world already.
You know, all around the world.
How can we, you know, prepareourselves for that and train our
brains to think celestial,because I know at the end of the
year, whatever happens withthis election, there's going to

(35:28):
be.
You did this, you did that.
He said she's like all of allof the things.
So how can we have that peaceand be able to say God's going
to take it and whoever directsanything at me, I'm just going
to let it roll off, because Iknow he has me.
You know how can we do that?

Randy Brown (35:47):
Well, a couple of thoughts.
Number one I don't think wewant to try to avoid persecution
.
I think that's a big mistake.
I think the persecutions arepersecution and miracles no hand
in hand.
But for us to get to the pointwhere we experienced these

(36:08):
miracles that President Nelson'stalking about, there has to be
a testing, and a testing severeenough that allows our faith to
ascend to a level where miraclesbecome commonplace.
In Nephi's vision, it's in 1stNephi 1414,.
He says I saw the power of Godin great glory right ending upon

(36:32):
the saints and the covenantpeople of the Lord.
This power of God in greatglory is something worth
studying because there will besaints, latter-day Saints, who
are covenant, keeping loyal totheir covenants.
Loyal to our covenants meansloyal under all conditions.
That's where this book, theHeavenly man, has been so

(36:55):
powerful to me.
If we were being persecuted,will we be loyal under that
persecution?
Like he said, I won't be inthis prison one second more than

(37:15):
God intends for me to gothrough these experiences that
will enable me, power me.
He was in prison four times andevery time, miraculously, he
was released or walked out.
This man experiences miracles,like you see in the Book of

(37:36):
Mormon.
It's like reading the Book ofMormon, but in China it happened
at the time Brother Yun is likeWas it Nephi?

Lily (37:46):
and Lehi that with the prison fell yeah.

Randy Brown (37:50):
Look in the Book of Mormon.
How many times were thesereally highly ascended
spiritually people thrown intoprisons?
And every time they werereleased once they're at service
purpose Right.
So, rather than trying to avoidbeing persecuted, rejoice in it
when Nephi was tied to the mastof the ship and the ship was in

(38:10):
this tempest and they wereafraid for their lives.
He was rejoicing and he waspraising the Lord and singing.
Nephi knew what was going tohappen on the other side.
He knew they were going to makeit to the Promised Land.
He knew he'd seen it.
And so we have to have thefaith to know that on the other
side of these tribulations arethese miracles that President

(38:34):
Nelson's telling us about, andso we have to say come what may.
Yeah, and that's where thethinking celestial comes in is,
these persecutions willchallenge us, but that challenge
is where we gain the faith todraw down this power from heaven

(38:57):
.
This is where we'll realize thefull powers that are promised
in the endowment, right?
I don't think we sometimes evenfathom what the Book of Mormon
really is, what the endowmentreally is.
Yeah, we're going to see someamazing things, but tribulations

(39:17):
will be a part of it.
So, come what may, bring it on,right?

Lily (39:21):
Well, it reminded me of the Savior right.
He, literally he condescendedbelow everything, and I think
it's an honor for us to evenhave our own little inkling of
condescension, of going down andthen having to come back up,
and I think that we should behonored to be able to experience
that and be able to experienceit with our Savior at the same

(39:44):
time, because we know he'sovercome, we know that he's won,
so if he's next to us, we knowthat we will too.
It's just, it really isfiguring out how we can get our
mindsets so that, when thosepersecutions do come, we can
focus on the miracles and we canfocus on our testimony.
And that's why I feel like Iwas kind of inspired to do this

(40:05):
podcast about remembering,because I found that it was
throughout the entire Book ofMormon.
Nephi said remember Moses,remember Isaiah, remember the
things that the Lord has donefor us.
And I feel like, as I waspondering that and as I was
studying that, I realized thatit's the Lord has us go through
these experiences, to go up anddown through life, just like,

(40:27):
you know, with your story, sothat we can personally
understand and come to know himand that we can think on those
memories when the times get hard, because we can say I felt the
bomb of Gilead, when I was in somuch spiritual pain from this
experience, when I could not, Ihad this way around me, I

(40:47):
couldn't forgive, but he healedme and that's something that I
can't deny, you know, and Ithink he gives those things to
all of us and we just have toreflect on those and remember
them, and when we do, that iswhat will also give us the
strength for the future, for tobe able to endure and see the
miracles.

Randy Brown (41:07):
Yeah, a pattern you'll see throughout scripture
is before we ascend spiritually,we go through a descent.
Christ experienced the biggestdescent phase of all.
This was infinite, but for usto move from, let's say, a
born-again level to celestiallevel, there will be a descent

(41:30):
phase.
We'll be tested, We'll have toprove the loyal to our covenants
and that empowers thesemiracles.
And Abraham went through it,Joseph Smith went through it,
Joseph of Egypt, Job I mean youcan just go throughout the
scriptures and if we really wantthat level of spiritual power

(41:51):
and blessings, we have to gothrough what they went through.
I mean it'll be individuallytailored to us, but we'll be
tested and, like Brother Ewan,it won't be a minute longer than
it needs to be.
Once the Lord's work is doneenough, we'll be released from

(42:12):
that, we'll be empowered andwhat's on the other side will be
worth it.

Lily (42:15):
Right, and then the next little dip will come and we'll
do it all over again.

Randy Brown (42:20):
Yeah, the higher we ascend, the greater the descent
, the greater the descent thatcomes before it.
So right.
But we wanted that.
That's why we're here.

Lily (42:30):
It is what we signed up for.

Randy Brown (42:33):
A lot of people say why am I going through this?
I didn't sign up for this.
Well, you did.

Lily (42:38):
You might not remember it.
Yeah, that's so funny.
Well, I really do appreciateyour time.
This has been a reallywonderful conversation and do
you mind just leaving us with atestimony really fast?

Randy Brown (42:50):
Absolutely, yeah, thank you Again.
This is the whole reason I gotinto sharing online is to be
able to be valiant in mytestimony of Jesus Christ, and
even my patriarchal blessingtold me that I had a testimony
from my very young days that Iknew that Jesus was the Christ.

(43:13):
I knew that Joseph Smith wasthe prophet of the Restoration.
Sometimes, when I go in for atemple, recommend interview and
they start asking questions likedo you believe in God, the
Eternal Father, his Son, jesusChrist and the Holy Ghost, tears
should start coming down myeyes because, yes, I want to say

(43:33):
yes, yes, I know.
Do you believe in Jesus Christas your Savior?
Yes, yes, I know that.
Do you sustain President Nelsonand those who are called as
prophets and revelators?
Yes, yes, I do.
I know that.
I know that they are called ofhim.
I've had this testimony mywhole life.

(43:58):
It's been challenged indifferent ways and that's always
been good.
It's always been somethingwhere I came out with greater
assurance on the other side.
But yes, I am a witness of theSavior, jesus Christ.
I am a witness of his livingapostles and prophets and I'm a

(44:20):
witness that we can have apersonal relationship with the
Savior.
That can just be incredible andcan become deeper and deeper
and deeper.
And the temple plays such animportant role.
I'll share this.
I don't share this to I don'tknow.
I don't want this to be takenwrong, but you know, I had a

(44:44):
wake-up call in 2020 about wherewe are in our proximity to the
Second Coming.
The Second Coming is going tobe wonderful.
It's the stuff before it thatwe have to be prepared for and I
think that's what PresidentNelson is warning us for is the
stuff that comes before it.
We need this constant influenceof the Holy Ghost, we need this

(45:06):
relationship with the Savior.
But I felt back in October, Ijust felt like the Lord asked me
to be in the temple every dayand I'm in a little bit
different situation.
I'm retired and I can do that.
I'm already a temple worker butI felt like he asked me to make
this type of a sacrifice tomaybe rend some veils of

(45:28):
unbelief that I still need toget through, to fully get to
where I need to be.
But I have honored that and,except for a few days where I
was really, really sick, I'vebeen in the temple every day
that it's open and it has justbeen so amazing in my life I've

(45:48):
had so much revelation.
My power to hear him hasincreased.
I can't even it's exponentiallyand anybody who can, I would say
, be in the temple as often asyou possibly can, especially
right now, the times we'reliving in step out of the world.

(46:11):
My wife and I, we feel likewe've left the world behind,
stepped out of it, and there'snothing in this world that has
any appeal or pull.
It's just taking unprecedentedmeasures to prepare for the
second coming and the thingsthat are happening.

(46:32):
This world's going to be gonesoon.
There's nothing here for us,it's moving to the next one.
So, anyway, I rambled, sorry.

Lily (46:43):
No, that's beautiful, it really is.
And it just reminds me becauseI have young kids and so
sometimes going into thetemple's heart.
But then I had the thought cometo me of but Lily, you can
still go to the grounds, thegrounds have been dedicated and
you should be taking yourchildren to the grounds too, so
that they can feel of the spiritand that they can know where
they can turn for refuge.

(47:03):
So thank you so much forsharing your testimony with me
and with all of the listeners,and it's been really it's been
awesome.
So thank you for taking time tobe with me?

Randy Brown (47:14):
Yeah, anytime.

Lily (47:18):
Thanks again for tuning into More Than Coincidence
Remembering Jesus Christ in yourStory.
Please follow us on socialmedia or share us with a friend.
If you have an experience you'dlike to share, feel free to
reach out tomorethancoincidencerememberhim
at gmailcom.
I can't wait to hear all of theamazing memories you all have
of our Savior.

(47:39):
See you next time.
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