May 3, 2025 • 29 mins
What happens when a respected pediatrician with nearly five decades of experience begins to question everything he was taught about vaccines? Dr. Bose Ravenel joins Dr. Robert Jackson to share a professional journey that upends conventional wisdom about childhood immunizations.
After practicing traditional pediatrics for 31 years and academic medicine for 11 more, Dr. Ravenel's final six years in integrative medicine opened his eyes to patterns he could no longer ignore. He describes treating numerous children with autism whose parents consistently reported regression following vaccination—including one remarkable case where a hospital neurologist explicitly attributed a child's autistic regression to vaccines.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn as Dr. Ravenel explains how the COVID pandemic response first triggered his skepticism. "Nothing like that had ever happened before in history," he observes about the unprecedented vaccine mandates and public shaming campaigns. This initial suspicion led him to invest thousands of hours researching childhood vaccines, where he discovered disturbing gaps in safety testing.
Most striking is the revelation that no vaccine on the childhood schedule has ever been properly tested against an inert placebo, and claims of studies disproving vaccine-autism links examine only a fraction of the potential connections. Dr. Ravenel also discusses compelling research showing a striking temporal correlation between vaccination timing and SIDS deaths.
This eye-opening discussion challenges listeners to question why such information remains marginalized in medical discourse. Both physicians express concern that pharmaceutical industry influence prevents honest examination of vaccine risks, while emphasizing their commitment to sharing information parents need for making informed decisions about their children's health.
Share this episode with anyone concerned about vaccine safety or interested in understanding why some medical professionals are breaking ranks to question long-held assumptions about childhood immunization programs.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to More Than Medicine, where Jesus is more
than enough for the ills thatplague our culture and our
country.
Hosted by author and physician,dr Robert Jackson, and his wife
Carlotta and daughter HannahMiller.
So listen up, because thedoctor is in.
Dr.Robert Jackson (00:22):
Welcome to More Than Medicine.
I'm your host, Dr RobertJackson, bringing to you
biblical insights and storiesfrom the country doctor's rusty,
dusty scrapbook.
Well, I'm privileged today tohave Dr Bose Ravenel as my guest
.
Dr Ravenel, welcome to MoreThan Medicine.
Dr. Bose Ravenel (00:42):
Glad to be here and join you Well.
Dr.Robert Jackson (00:44):
I'm delighted to have Than Medicine.
Glad to be here and join youWell.
Dr. Bose Ravenel (00:45):
I'm delighted to have you today and if you
will tell my listeners a littlebit about who you are and what
you used to do and what you donow, and a little bit about your
background, Sure, I'm apediatrician retired on the day
of the COVID shutdown of ourretirement community where I
live, after 49 years as apediatrician, and I happened to
(01:10):
train at Johns Hopkins, whichwill be relevant later to some
of the conversation but I hadended up in private practice for
31 years and went into academicpediatrics for 11 years for
reasons unrelated to medicine,which I enjoyed, and then after
that, ended up deciding toplunge into integrated medicine
(01:34):
or functional medicine, rootcause-based medicine and did
that for six and a half years.
That was until the day of the2020 in March when the pandemic
started and the community I wasliving in shut down.
So that's in the integratedtimeframe that six years.
(01:55):
I learned more about medicineand things I never knew during
those six years than I had in 31years before, ever knew during
those six years than I had in 31years before, and it was able
to have the privilege of workingwith a large number of
chronically ill children withthe most amazing positive
(02:16):
experiences I've ever had in 31years before in those six years.
Dr.Robert Jackson (02:23):
Well, I'm delighted to hear that I really
am All right.
Well, the reason I'm callingyou today to be on my program is
because of a recent, I guess, ablog post about a connection
between vaccines and autism thatI saw and I really wanted to
ask you to comment about that.
And I really wanted to ask youto comment about that and I
(02:45):
guess, before we even begin that, I want to ask you to, in
layman's turn, explain to mylistening audience what autism
is.
Dr. Bose Ravenel (03:00):
Sure in the media today is the fact that,
accurately, it's pointed outthat it's a behavior diagnosis
or a.
It's an observation diagnosis.
It's not a can't do a lab testthere's no single lab test
whatever.
But what it really is it was, Ithink dr can, 1942 or so,
(03:24):
described the original case ofwhat was years later perceived
to be the first case offull-blown autism, not to be
distinguished from mild spectrum, where somebody's a little
quirky in their adulthood andthey're called autism spectrum.
But classic autism primarily isin the case of children and
(03:44):
that's when it mostly occurs.
It's a sudden onset of loss ofpreviously achieved milestones,
usually in language, sometimesin motor, but usually in
language, and it is more oftenthan not dramatic.
And it is more often than notdramatic and then that's
(04:05):
followed by a variety, oraccompanied by a variety of
physical manifestations that arecharacterized to occur in
conjunction with theneurological effects of whatever
it is that produces thatclinical picture that consists
(04:29):
of gastrointestinal symptoms,sometimes immune system
abnormalities, and so on.
Dr.Robert Jackson (04:30):
Now, what are some of the neurologic symptoms
that are typical of autistic?
Dr. Bose Ravenel (04:35):
The biggest one that clearly would be
language.
An example I'll give you iswhen I was in the integrated
practice.
Early in that time I had areferral.
A parent called and said thattheir child had been admitted to
the nearby medical center anacademic medical center for
(04:56):
evaluation, after getting, Ithink, an MMR, a couple of other
shots, had a well-baby visitI'm thinking the baby may have
been 18 months or whatever andimmediately after that
completely lost, within days,the milestones the child had
(05:17):
before, socially and stoppedeating.
All kinds of problems Make along story short, was it went to
the emergency room at a nearbymedical center, discharged home
with presumed uh, just transienttype thing.
They couldn't explain.
It Got worse, went back, wasadmitted for a week, evaluated
and the neurologist at thehospital told the parents your
(05:40):
child has had an autisticregression caused by the
vaccines and we don't recommendyou get any more vaccines unless
your pediatrician will endorsethat.
They then went home and totheir local physician in a
nearby community that I won'tname.
The pediatrician agreed.
(06:01):
The history was so classic forwhat is written about sudden
loss of previously gainedmilestones that they didn't
think it should be done andasked me for another opinion
which I, having worked withabout 30 or 40 families with
autistic children, agreed andthat child never got any more
(06:22):
vaccines and that child nevergot any more vaccines.
Dr.Robert Jackson (06:25):
Now some of the children that I see with
autistic symptoms exhibit oddbehavior, such as flapping of
their arms and socialawkwardness as they get older.
Did you ever see this child doany of that?
Dr. Bose Ravenel (06:45):
Yes, yes, that is classic.
Actually, this particular childalso not only had the reversal
of previously gained language,but was just not responding
socially dramaticallydifferently than it had been
before the shots.
Dr.Robert Jackson (07:01):
Not making eye contact, that sort of thing.
Dr. Bose Ravenel (07:03):
Correct, correct, not making eye contact,
that sort of thing, correct.
Correct, as well as somestereotypical motor movements is
a medical term meaning kind ofuncontrolled movements and, as
you said, even some people callautistic type flapping an
unusual kind of a flappingmotion of the hands.
Dr.Robert Jackson (07:26):
Right, one of my boys was low IQ and had
multiple issues when he was bornand he did that flapping motion
of his arms.
But he eventually outgrew thatand I thought, as he was younger
, that he was autistic.
But he never did becomeautistic and he's very socially
(07:48):
connected as he grew older sothe concerns about autism never
developed.
But it was interesting thatwhen he was younger he had that
flapping movement of his arms.
He obviously had someneurologic issues early on, but
then he kind of grew out of themAll right.
So let me go to my nextquestion then.
(08:08):
I'm sure that, like me, youpromoted childhood vaccines
early on in your medical career.
And what?
What did you?
When did you first begin to,when did you first begin to have
suspicions that pediatricvaccines were not safe for
(08:30):
children, and what opened youreyes to that fact?
Dr. Bose Ravenel (08:35):
That's a great question and, as you said,
prior to my integrating finalsix years of my clinical
practice, years out of those 49years prior to that, I had never
seriously questioned the ideathat, general speaking, the
(08:57):
childhood vaccines wereinvariably effective, but at
least effective.
And although there's no suchthing as a quote unqualified,
safe and effective vaccine ordrug there's no such thing.
They're not safe, never hasbeen, never will be one.
They're not natural.
Therefore, any of them has sideeffect listed.
(09:19):
So the safe and effective labelis a propaganda term, is not
reality.
But I never suspected anythingout of the usual until when the
COVID pandemic broke out and, bythe way, our children had all
their vaccines that wererecommended at the time.
I did until later in my lifewhen I realized that things
(09:45):
aren't as they appear to be.
But what opened my eyes was thebizarre, never before imagined,
let alone seen, response to theavailability of a new vaccine
to treat SARS-CoV-2 infection,when SARS-CoV-2 is a coronavirus
and the one thing that peopleneed to realize is that COVID,
(10:09):
which is a short term forcoronavirus, in recorded history
forever I mean decades, maybe100 years of all colds, common
colds.
This is not even questiondebate, it's a fact.
20% of all cold calls foreverhave been coronavirus.
There's nothing new under thesun.
(10:31):
So immediately within weeks ofthe whole pandemic, I and a
number of other individualsacross the country were
suspicious that something wasweird going on here.
Was suspicious that somethingwas weird going on here.
Something didn't add up.
And then when they startedtalking about shutting down and
wearing masks which had fordecades been proven to be of no
(10:54):
use whatsoever and preventingfor viral transmission and the
other evidence is overwhelming.
Now they don't but requiringwearing masks which had
previously been known to beineffective, and then shutting
down businesses and isolation.
None of that had ever beenadopted before in history.
And then, even more bizarre,when I was looking up every day
(11:20):
and you're seeing prominentspokespersons on the TV talking
about shaming people who didn'ttake this vaccine that came out
and offering bribes on the onehand, or shaming on the other,
restricting privileges.
Nothing like that had everhappened before, so I was
suspicious from the verybeginning.
Dr.Robert Jackson (11:40):
Well, so was I, dr Ravenhill, so was I.
Everything about it justsmelled like a rat.
Dr. Bose Ravenel (11:50):
Everything about it just was not normal out
about individuals who had thevaccine and who died shortly
after or not too long afterward,and the reports of the VAERS,
which is the Vaccine AdverseEvent Reporting System that the
(12:14):
government set up to track badoutcomes from vaccines.
It was their own creation andthere were reports of deaths.
It was their own creation andthere were reports of deaths.
And in the past, before theCOVID outbreak, in the past 30
or 40 years, there have beenmaybe a couple or three vaccines
(12:36):
where there have been one deathor 10 deaths following the
vaccine and they pulled thevaccine off the market
immediately.
That's right and in severalcases, never even put it back on
the market.
That's right, and in severalcases, never even put it back on
the market.
And here we were.
Within months they're reportinghundreds of deaths, hundreds.
That's when I knew this isabsolutely something strange,
(12:57):
bizarre, is totally out of synchere.
Dr.Robert Jackson (13:00):
Well, and see , you're like myself and that's
what prompted me to besuspicious of all vaccines, not
just the COVID mRNA template.
But I began to investigate allvaccines and I began to be
suspicious because for the firsttime in my life, dr Ravenel, I
(13:22):
didn't trust the CDC or the FDAor the NIH, because I'd always
trusted those institutions.
And then suddenly I realizedthey were not speaking the truth
to medical doctors and I beganto wonder well, what else were
they not speaking truth about?
Dr. Bose Ravenel (13:41):
That's exactly right.
I had the same feeling.
And then, in my case, I wentfrom between my retirement date,
on March 16th of 2020, andtoday.
I have probably invested, I'dsay, 6,000 hours of research,
(14:04):
reading reports, papers, books Iprobably read 75 to 80 books in
that period Thousands of paperson COVID, on vaccines, and as I
began to branch into not onlythe COVID vaccine but for the
first time, really seriouslylooking at the data, I was
(14:25):
stunned.
I mean, I was shocked to findout.
I would read something like thefollowing, and then I would go
research it out and find it wastrue.
Number one I learned that novaccine on the childhood
schedule had and still has neverschedule had and still has
(14:50):
never.
Not one has ever been provensafe or effective.
By comparison with an inertplacebo, in other words, a dummy
, where you don't know whetherthe patient got the vaccine or
the dummy, Not one trial hadever been done comparing the two
, and that's almost beyondcomprehension.
And then the second thing Ilearned was that, with regard to
(15:11):
autism, once the COVID thingalerted us, we started digging
deeper.
The more you dig, the worse youfind.
And, in addition, noplacebo-controlled trials had
ever been done to discover thatin the case of autism, the CDC
(15:33):
had been saying forever thatthey've done dozens and hundreds
of studies showing thatvaccines don't cause autism.
It turns out they had nevereven looked at data on any
vaccine, other than oneCDC-sponsored study to look at
(15:53):
MMR vaccine and the other to belooking at one ingredient,
thimerosal, which has mercury init.
Otherwise, there had never beena single attempt to study
anything about autism andvaccines.
So then I had to face therealization, as you did, that
what we were being told over andover again by the CDC was
(16:16):
simply bald-faced fiction.
It just wasn't true, and is it?
Dr.Robert Jackson (16:21):
Well, that's amazing because, you know, I
looked up the pediatric vaccinesand autism and when you look it
up, there are dozens and dozensof entries that say pediatric
vaccines do not cause autism,Pediatric vaccines no connection
(16:43):
to autism.
And there's just dozens ofentries that say exactly that.
You cannot find an entryanywhere that will say that
there's any connection between apediatric vaccine and autism.
That's correct.
Dr. Bose Ravenel (17:01):
And the worst part is that first of all, I
want to throw this out what youhear very often when
spokespeople are asked aboutthat what is the relationship
between vaccines and autism?
What the mainstream medicalorganizations and the CDC and
FDA spokespersons and all theysay almost always they'll say.
(17:21):
And FDA spokespersons and allthey say almost always they'll
say we don't know for sure whatcauses autism, when we know it's
not vaccines.
That's right.
That first of all is acontradiction.
It's a self-contradictingstatement.
It doesn't even make any sense.
They don't know what causes it,but we know it's not so-and-so.
It's not possible to knowThey've never done a study on it
(17:43):
.
That's right.
It's not possible to know theynever done a study on it.
And then I learned that theCDC-sponsored study looking at
MMR back in about 2005, wheneverit was, they actually published
a paper that purported to provethat MMR did not cause autism.
But it turned out.
It became revealed byWhistleblower and Dr William
(18:07):
Thompson that in fact the studythe original data they had.
They found that to theirsurprise that among the black
population included in the studythere was about a two and a
half fold increase in autismamong the kids.
They were comparing childrenwho got the NMR vaccine before
(18:31):
their third birthday or afterthe third birthday.
In other words, some of themhad it delayed until after age
three.
Most of them got it when theywere about a year old and the
incidence of autism was two orthree fold higher than the ones
that got it earlier.
And when they had that data theyactually convened an emergency
(18:53):
meeting at simpsonwood, georgia,which anybody who wants to
explore that, if you can find it.
You probably won't find it ongoogle, which is censored that
use DuckDuckGo or another searchengine, which is another clue
at its own.
You will find Simpsonwood,georgia, where they came
together the leaders of the CDC,the authors of the study and
(19:13):
all that, and they brought alltheir data.
They went through all this andthey ended up finding that the
group of subjects were the oneswhere the autism occurred, and
so they decided to eliminatethat group of subjects from the
study.
And before they published thedata, they literally took the
(19:38):
data and destroyed the papersand put them in a trash can.
But one person at this meetinghad kept his own copies at home
and, to make a long story short,he ended up disclosing that to
a reporter and then it becamethe subject of a congressional
investigation.
But the whistleblower, drWilliam Thompson, a CDC
(20:02):
physician who wanted to tell thetruth, was not legally able to
testify to a congressionalinvestigation William Congress
and William Posey and he couldnot testify unless he was
deposed and we're still waitingfor that deposition.
I mean subpoenaed he was.
He was begging to be subpoenaed, but he's never been subpoenaed
(20:25):
.
It's been about 14 years now.
So, the point is that the CDCstudy that they claimed and
published, showing thatalternatives not caused by the
vaccines, actually showed thereverse.
Dr.Robert Jackson (20:39):
I got you.
Well, let me ask you this nowIn your personal medical
practice, have you seen patientsregress neurologically after a
pediatric vaccine?
Dr. Bose Ravenel (20:50):
No, and not in my clinical practice days, but
I did in my integrative sixyears.
I happened to end up having alarge number of families seeking
help with their autistic childbecause they heard integrative
doctors usually are willing tolook at things more objectively
and look for root causes and oneof those.
(21:13):
I ended up probably workingwith 50 or 60 families with
autistic kids and those parents.
It was almost a broken recordthe story of regression after
getting the vaccines until theywere progressing fine until then
.
But then the key patient that Iactually was involved with was
(21:35):
the one I mentioned earlier inthe introduction where the
parents in a nearby communitythe child regressed, evaluated
in a hospital, nearby medicalcenter and even though I've
never heard of any pediatricianin our area who would ever admit
that any child developedprogression after vaccines or
reported For the fact that amedical center nearby, the
(21:58):
neurologist told the mother yourchild had an autistic
regression caused by the MMRvaccine, don't give another
vaccine.
That really got my attention.
Dr.Robert Jackson (22:10):
My goodness, my goodness, all right.
Well, let's jump to anothertrack, then, because this is
something that has happened inmy medical practice many times,
and that's the whole issue ofsudden infant death syndrome
after a vaccine.
And in fact, this happenedprobably about six weeks ago.
(22:31):
I had a grandmother in myoffice and she was just terribly
distraught and I inquired aboutit and she told me about her
two-month-old grandson who hadjust died suddenly.
And I asked her, I said tell mewhat happened.
And she immediately said he'dgotten his two-month-old
immunization and two days laterhe just suddenly died.
(22:54):
They just found him in the cribdead, and of course it was
described as a SIDS death, and Ididn't say anything to her
about it, but I knew immediatelythat in my mind that it was
connected to the vaccine.
Now, in your medical practice,did you ever see SIDS deaths
that were connected to vaccines?
Dr. Bose Ravenel (23:16):
Well, I'm going to say yes and no, and let
me explain what I mean by that.
Did I ever see children who hadSIDS, who had vaccines in some
proximate period before that?
Yes, I did, but at the time itdidn't occur to me, nor did I
suggest that the SIDS hadanything to do with the vaccines
.
And if a occur to me, nor did Isuggest that the SIDS had
(23:37):
anything to do with the vaccines.
And if a parent asked me Iwould have said it was just
coincidental.
But later on I began to reallylook back at it and see the
research data and learn thatthere's a published paper
analyzing SIDS deaths in apopulation.
That was a subject of the paperpublished and they looked at
(24:01):
the date at which the SIDSoccurred in relationship to date
of vaccination and a randomevent.
Because if you walk outside andlook up at the sky and then the
next day you're in a car wreck,it doesn't mean looking at the
sky caused the car wreck.
Correlation does not equalcausation.
(24:22):
That's correct.
However, random events ie dyingsuddenly, unexplained death
following a vaccine or vaccines,random events if they're
nothing to do with a cause, thenthat should occur at random
times, from day one to twomonths later or six months later
(24:44):
, a year.
In other words they have nocorrelation of the time of the
vaccine and the time of theevent.
But the data in this papershowed quite the opposite,
showed there was a strikingcorrelation where the closer to
the date of vaccination was thenumber of SIDS deaths occurred
(25:05):
Dramatically higher.
Very close somewhat.
So it was a curve that wentdown, down, down, down the
further away from the date ofvaccination you occurred.
Dr.Robert Jackson (25:15):
So that is a very compelling epidemiological
data that strongly suggests itcalls a relationship and I've
seen that study too, and it'svery alarming to me that no one
in the medical community iswilling to sound the alarm and
(25:35):
bring it to the attention ofparents, and I'm alarmed that
the medical community at largeis not willing to discuss this
publicly.
But it's really suppressed.
The whole issue of SIDS andvaccines is being suppressed,
and I think it's beingsuppressed by the pharmaceutical
industry because they make somuch money from the vaccines.
(25:57):
They're not concerned about thewell-being of children.
They're just concerned abouttheir wallets and their income.
Dr. Bose Ravenel (26:04):
It's also being suppressed by the fact
that professional organizations,including the American and
Canada Pediatrics specifically Iwill mention them as well.
They strongly discourage anypediatricians or family
physicians, any medicalprofessionals acknowledging any
kind of relationship betweenvaccines and autism.
(26:25):
They have no desire, not onlyno desire to talk about it, they
suppress discussion about it.
Dr.Robert Jackson (26:33):
It's because they're bought and paid for by
the pharmaceutical industry.
Dr. Bose Ravenel (26:37):
But the other thing about the SIDS that not
only is the temporalrelationship, that study done,
but equally, if not more,incriminating is that there have
been enough times as asuspicion began to be raised and
, little by little, more andmore physicians with the courage
to speak out honestly and raisethe concern about that
(27:00):
possibility.
They began looking at autopsiesof some kids who had died of
sids.
Instead of a routine autopsythey had, they had uh expert
medical experts who believe theywere related and convinced the
parents to press for and weresuccessful, get the autopsy to
do a variety of studies thatwould show changes that would be
(27:24):
consistent with a vaccineinjury and there was a handful
of those.
They were published as well,showing that what was ruled as
SIDS once they got a moreelaborate lab testing, blood
testing and other pathologicaltesting on the autopsy that it
appeared that the vaccine wasincriminating as a part of the
(27:45):
cause of the death.
Dr.Robert Jackson (27:47):
Well, I just pray that sometime, somewhere
and somehow this informationwill come out.
And that's why I do thesepodcasts, because I want my
listeners, the parents and thegrandparents, to know my
concerns, to know your concerns,so that they will be concerned
enough to avoid these pediatricvaccines.
(28:09):
They're not safe, they're noteffective and they're not
necessary.
I mean these childhoodillnesses.
They're gone.
They've been gone since the1950s due to improvements in
sanitation and I really don'tthink the vaccines are necessary
anymore.
Well, dr Ravenel, I appreciateyour time.
Our time is running out forthis podcast.
(28:31):
Would you come back with me anddiscuss some of these issues
again another day?
Dr. Bose Ravenel (28:35):
Sure, I'll be happy to.
Dr.Robert Jackson (28:37):
Well, I want you to know I appreciate your
expertise, I appreciate yourresearch and I'm sure my
listeners appreciate hearingfrom you and I'd love to have
you back again another time.
Dr. Bose Ravenel (28:48):
All right, we'll do it, thank you.
Dr.Robert Jackson (28:49):
All right, you're listening to More Than
Medicine.
My guest today is Dr BoseRavenel, pediatric physician for
more than 48 years, and I willhave him back again another time
.
You're listening to More ThanMedicine.
I'm your host, dr RobertJackson.
We'll be back again next week.
Between now and then, may theLord bless you real good.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Thank you for listening to this edition of
More Than Medicine.
For more information about theJackson Family Ministry, dr
Jackson's books, or to schedulea speaking engagement, go to
their Facebook page, instagramor their webpage at
jacksonfamilyministrycom.
This podcast is produced by BobSlone Audio Production at
bobslone.
com.
Welcome to More Than Medicine, where Jesus is more
than enough for the ills thatplague our culture and our
country.
Hosted by author and physician,dr Robert Jackson, and his wife
Carlotta and daughter HannahMiller.
So listen up, because thedoctor is in.
Dr.Robert Jackson (00:22):
Welcome to More Than Medicine.
I'm your host, Dr RobertJackson, bringing to you
biblical insights and storiesfrom the country doctor's rusty,
dusty scrapbook.
Well, I'm privileged today tohave Dr Bose Ravenel as my guest
.
Dr Ravenel, welcome to MoreThan Medicine.
Dr. Bose Ravenel (00:42):
Glad to be here and join you Well.
Dr.Robert Jackson (00:44):
I'm delighted to have Than Medicine.
Glad to be here and join youWell.
Dr. Bose Ravenel (00:45):
I'm delighted to have you today and if you
will tell my listeners a littlebit about who you are and what
you used to do and what you donow, and a little bit about your
background, Sure, I'm apediatrician retired on the day
of the COVID shutdown of ourretirement community where I
live, after 49 years as apediatrician, and I happened to
(01:10):
train at Johns Hopkins, whichwill be relevant later to some
of the conversation but I hadended up in private practice for
31 years and went into academicpediatrics for 11 years for
reasons unrelated to medicine,which I enjoyed, and then after
that, ended up deciding toplunge into integrated medicine
(01:34):
or functional medicine, rootcause-based medicine and did
that for six and a half years.
That was until the day of the2020 in March when the pandemic
started and the community I wasliving in shut down.
So that's in the integratedtimeframe that six years.
(01:55):
I learned more about medicineand things I never knew during
those six years than I had in 31years before, ever knew during
those six years than I had in 31years before, and it was able
to have the privilege of workingwith a large number of
chronically ill children withthe most amazing positive
(02:16):
experiences I've ever had in 31years before in those six years.
Dr.Robert Jackson (02:23):
Well, I'm delighted to hear that I really
am All right.
Well, the reason I'm callingyou today to be on my program is
because of a recent, I guess, ablog post about a connection
between vaccines and autism thatI saw and I really wanted to
ask you to comment about that.
And I really wanted to ask youto comment about that and I
(02:45):
guess, before we even begin that, I want to ask you to, in
layman's turn, explain to mylistening audience what autism
is.
Dr. Bose Ravenel (03:00):
Sure in the media today is the fact that,
accurately, it's pointed outthat it's a behavior diagnosis
or a.
It's an observation diagnosis.
It's not a can't do a lab testthere's no single lab test
whatever.
But what it really is it was, Ithink dr can, 1942 or so,
(03:24):
described the original case ofwhat was years later perceived
to be the first case offull-blown autism, not to be
distinguished from mild spectrum, where somebody's a little
quirky in their adulthood andthey're called autism spectrum.
But classic autism primarily isin the case of children and
(03:44):
that's when it mostly occurs.
It's a sudden onset of loss ofpreviously achieved milestones,
usually in language, sometimesin motor, but usually in
language, and it is more oftenthan not dramatic.
And it is more often than notdramatic and then that's
(04:05):
followed by a variety, oraccompanied by a variety of
physical manifestations that arecharacterized to occur in
conjunction with theneurological effects of whatever
it is that produces thatclinical picture that consists
(04:29):
of gastrointestinal symptoms,sometimes immune system
abnormalities, and so on.
Dr.Robert Jackson (04:30):
Now, what are some of the neurologic symptoms
that are typical of autistic?
Dr. Bose Ravenel (04:35):
The biggest one that clearly would be
language.
An example I'll give you iswhen I was in the integrated
practice.
Early in that time I had areferral.
A parent called and said thattheir child had been admitted to
the nearby medical center anacademic medical center for
(04:56):
evaluation, after getting, Ithink, an MMR, a couple of other
shots, had a well-baby visitI'm thinking the baby may have
been 18 months or whatever andimmediately after that
completely lost, within days,the milestones the child had
(05:17):
before, socially and stoppedeating.
All kinds of problems Make along story short, was it went to
the emergency room at a nearbymedical center, discharged home
with presumed uh, just transienttype thing.
They couldn't explain.
It Got worse, went back, wasadmitted for a week, evaluated
and the neurologist at thehospital told the parents your
(05:40):
child has had an autisticregression caused by the
vaccines and we don't recommendyou get any more vaccines unless
your pediatrician will endorsethat.
They then went home and totheir local physician in a
nearby community that I won'tname.
The pediatrician agreed.
(06:01):
The history was so classic forwhat is written about sudden
loss of previously gainedmilestones that they didn't
think it should be done andasked me for another opinion
which I, having worked withabout 30 or 40 families with
autistic children, agreed andthat child never got any more
(06:22):
vaccines and that child nevergot any more vaccines.
Dr.Robert Jackson (06:25):
Now some of the children that I see with
autistic symptoms exhibit oddbehavior, such as flapping of
their arms and socialawkwardness as they get older.
Did you ever see this child doany of that?
Dr. Bose Ravenel (06:45):
Yes, yes, that is classic.
Actually, this particular childalso not only had the reversal
of previously gained language,but was just not responding
socially dramaticallydifferently than it had been
before the shots.
Dr.Robert Jackson (07:01):
Not making eye contact, that sort of thing.
Dr. Bose Ravenel (07:03):
Correct, correct, not making eye contact,
that sort of thing, correct.
Correct, as well as somestereotypical motor movements is
a medical term meaning kind ofuncontrolled movements and, as
you said, even some people callautistic type flapping an
unusual kind of a flappingmotion of the hands.
Dr.Robert Jackson (07:26):
Right, one of my boys was low IQ and had
multiple issues when he was bornand he did that flapping motion
of his arms.
But he eventually outgrew thatand I thought, as he was younger
, that he was autistic.
But he never did becomeautistic and he's very socially
(07:48):
connected as he grew older sothe concerns about autism never
developed.
But it was interesting thatwhen he was younger he had that
flapping movement of his arms.
He obviously had someneurologic issues early on, but
then he kind of grew out of themAll right.
So let me go to my nextquestion then.
(08:08):
I'm sure that, like me, youpromoted childhood vaccines
early on in your medical career.
And what?
What did you?
When did you first begin to,when did you first begin to have
suspicions that pediatricvaccines were not safe for
(08:30):
children, and what opened youreyes to that fact?
Dr. Bose Ravenel (08:35):
That's a great question and, as you said,
prior to my integrating finalsix years of my clinical
practice, years out of those 49years prior to that, I had never
seriously questioned the ideathat, general speaking, the
(08:57):
childhood vaccines wereinvariably effective, but at
least effective.
And although there's no suchthing as a quote unqualified,
safe and effective vaccine ordrug there's no such thing.
They're not safe, never hasbeen, never will be one.
They're not natural.
Therefore, any of them has sideeffect listed.
(09:19):
So the safe and effective labelis a propaganda term, is not
reality.
But I never suspected anythingout of the usual until when the
COVID pandemic broke out and, bythe way, our children had all
their vaccines that wererecommended at the time.
I did until later in my lifewhen I realized that things
(09:45):
aren't as they appear to be.
But what opened my eyes was thebizarre, never before imagined,
let alone seen, response to theavailability of a new vaccine
to treat SARS-CoV-2 infection,when SARS-CoV-2 is a coronavirus
and the one thing that peopleneed to realize is that COVID,
(10:09):
which is a short term forcoronavirus, in recorded history
forever I mean decades, maybe100 years of all colds, common
colds.
This is not even questiondebate, it's a fact.
20% of all cold calls foreverhave been coronavirus.
There's nothing new under thesun.
(10:31):
So immediately within weeks ofthe whole pandemic, I and a
number of other individualsacross the country were
suspicious that something wasweird going on here.
Was suspicious that somethingwas weird going on here.
Something didn't add up.
And then when they startedtalking about shutting down and
wearing masks which had fordecades been proven to be of no
(10:54):
use whatsoever and preventingfor viral transmission and the
other evidence is overwhelming.
Now they don't but requiringwearing masks which had
previously been known to beineffective, and then shutting
down businesses and isolation.
None of that had ever beenadopted before in history.
And then, even more bizarre,when I was looking up every day
(11:20):
and you're seeing prominentspokespersons on the TV talking
about shaming people who didn'ttake this vaccine that came out
and offering bribes on the onehand, or shaming on the other,
restricting privileges.
Nothing like that had everhappened before, so I was
suspicious from the verybeginning.
Dr.Robert Jackson (11:40):
Well, so was I, dr Ravenhill, so was I.
Everything about it justsmelled like a rat.
Dr. Bose Ravenel (11:50):
Everything about it just was not normal out
about individuals who had thevaccine and who died shortly
after or not too long afterward,and the reports of the VAERS,
which is the Vaccine AdverseEvent Reporting System that the
(12:14):
government set up to track badoutcomes from vaccines.
It was their own creation andthere were reports of deaths.
It was their own creation andthere were reports of deaths.
And in the past, before theCOVID outbreak, in the past 30
or 40 years, there have beenmaybe a couple or three vaccines
(12:36):
where there have been one deathor 10 deaths following the
vaccine and they pulled thevaccine off the market
immediately.
That's right and in severalcases, never even put it back on
the market.
That's right, and in severalcases, never even put it back on
the market.
And here we were.
Within months they're reportinghundreds of deaths, hundreds.
That's when I knew this isabsolutely something strange,
(12:57):
bizarre, is totally out of synchere.
Dr.Robert Jackson (13:00):
Well, and see , you're like myself and that's
what prompted me to besuspicious of all vaccines, not
just the COVID mRNA template.
But I began to investigate allvaccines and I began to be
suspicious because for the firsttime in my life, dr Ravenel, I
(13:22):
didn't trust the CDC or the FDAor the NIH, because I'd always
trusted those institutions.
And then suddenly I realizedthey were not speaking the truth
to medical doctors and I beganto wonder well, what else were
they not speaking truth about?
Dr. Bose Ravenel (13:41):
That's exactly right.
I had the same feeling.
And then, in my case, I wentfrom between my retirement date,
on March 16th of 2020, andtoday.
I have probably invested, I'dsay, 6,000 hours of research,
(14:04):
reading reports, papers, books Iprobably read 75 to 80 books in
that period Thousands of paperson COVID, on vaccines, and as I
began to branch into not onlythe COVID vaccine but for the
first time, really seriouslylooking at the data, I was
(14:25):
stunned.
I mean, I was shocked to findout.
I would read something like thefollowing, and then I would go
research it out and find it wastrue.
Number one I learned that novaccine on the childhood
schedule had and still has neverschedule had and still has
(14:50):
never.
Not one has ever been provensafe or effective.
By comparison with an inertplacebo, in other words, a dummy
, where you don't know whetherthe patient got the vaccine or
the dummy, Not one trial hadever been done comparing the two
, and that's almost beyondcomprehension.
And then the second thing Ilearned was that, with regard to
(15:11):
autism, once the COVID thingalerted us, we started digging
deeper.
The more you dig, the worse youfind.
And, in addition, noplacebo-controlled trials had
ever been done to discover thatin the case of autism, the CDC
(15:33):
had been saying forever thatthey've done dozens and hundreds
of studies showing thatvaccines don't cause autism.
It turns out they had nevereven looked at data on any
vaccine, other than oneCDC-sponsored study to look at
(15:53):
MMR vaccine and the other to belooking at one ingredient,
thimerosal, which has mercury init.
Otherwise, there had never beena single attempt to study
anything about autism andvaccines.
So then I had to face therealization, as you did, that
what we were being told over andover again by the CDC was
(16:16):
simply bald-faced fiction.
It just wasn't true, and is it?
Dr.Robert Jackson (16:21):
Well, that's amazing because, you know, I
looked up the pediatric vaccinesand autism and when you look it
up, there are dozens and dozensof entries that say pediatric
vaccines do not cause autism,Pediatric vaccines no connection
(16:43):
to autism.
And there's just dozens ofentries that say exactly that.
You cannot find an entryanywhere that will say that
there's any connection between apediatric vaccine and autism.
That's correct.
Dr. Bose Ravenel (17:01):
And the worst part is that first of all, I
want to throw this out what youhear very often when
spokespeople are asked aboutthat what is the relationship
between vaccines and autism?
What the mainstream medicalorganizations and the CDC and
FDA spokespersons and all theysay almost always they'll say.
(17:21):
And FDA spokespersons and allthey say almost always they'll
say we don't know for sure whatcauses autism, when we know it's
not vaccines.
That's right.
That first of all is acontradiction.
It's a self-contradictingstatement.
It doesn't even make any sense.
They don't know what causes it,but we know it's not so-and-so.
It's not possible to knowThey've never done a study on it
(17:43):
.
That's right.
It's not possible to know theynever done a study on it.
And then I learned that theCDC-sponsored study looking at
MMR back in about 2005, wheneverit was, they actually published
a paper that purported to provethat MMR did not cause autism.
But it turned out.
It became revealed byWhistleblower and Dr William
(18:07):
Thompson that in fact the studythe original data they had.
They found that to theirsurprise that among the black
population included in the studythere was about a two and a
half fold increase in autismamong the kids.
They were comparing childrenwho got the NMR vaccine before
(18:31):
their third birthday or afterthe third birthday.
In other words, some of themhad it delayed until after age
three.
Most of them got it when theywere about a year old and the
incidence of autism was two orthree fold higher than the ones
that got it earlier.
And when they had that data theyactually convened an emergency
(18:53):
meeting at simpsonwood, georgia,which anybody who wants to
explore that, if you can find it.
You probably won't find it ongoogle, which is censored that
use DuckDuckGo or another searchengine, which is another clue
at its own.
You will find Simpsonwood,georgia, where they came
together the leaders of the CDC,the authors of the study and
(19:13):
all that, and they brought alltheir data.
They went through all this andthey ended up finding that the
group of subjects were the oneswhere the autism occurred, and
so they decided to eliminatethat group of subjects from the
study.
And before they published thedata, they literally took the
(19:38):
data and destroyed the papersand put them in a trash can.
But one person at this meetinghad kept his own copies at home
and, to make a long story short,he ended up disclosing that to
a reporter and then it becamethe subject of a congressional
investigation.
But the whistleblower, drWilliam Thompson, a CDC
(20:02):
physician who wanted to tell thetruth, was not legally able to
testify to a congressionalinvestigation William Congress
and William Posey and he couldnot testify unless he was
deposed and we're still waitingfor that deposition.
I mean subpoenaed he was.
He was begging to be subpoenaed, but he's never been subpoenaed
(20:25):
.
It's been about 14 years now.
So, the point is that the CDCstudy that they claimed and
published, showing thatalternatives not caused by the
vaccines, actually showed thereverse.
Dr.Robert Jackson (20:39):
I got you.
Well, let me ask you this nowIn your personal medical
practice, have you seen patientsregress neurologically after a
pediatric vaccine?
Dr. Bose Ravenel (20:50):
No, and not in my clinical practice days, but
I did in my integrative sixyears.
I happened to end up having alarge number of families seeking
help with their autistic childbecause they heard integrative
doctors usually are willing tolook at things more objectively
and look for root causes and oneof those.
(21:13):
I ended up probably workingwith 50 or 60 families with
autistic kids and those parents.
It was almost a broken recordthe story of regression after
getting the vaccines until theywere progressing fine until then
.
But then the key patient that Iactually was involved with was
(21:35):
the one I mentioned earlier inthe introduction where the
parents in a nearby communitythe child regressed, evaluated
in a hospital, nearby medicalcenter and even though I've
never heard of any pediatricianin our area who would ever admit
that any child developedprogression after vaccines or
reported For the fact that amedical center nearby, the
(21:58):
neurologist told the mother yourchild had an autistic
regression caused by the MMRvaccine, don't give another
vaccine.
That really got my attention.
Dr.Robert Jackson (22:10):
My goodness, my goodness, all right.
Well, let's jump to anothertrack, then, because this is
something that has happened inmy medical practice many times,
and that's the whole issue ofsudden infant death syndrome
after a vaccine.
And in fact, this happenedprobably about six weeks ago.
(22:31):
I had a grandmother in myoffice and she was just terribly
distraught and I inquired aboutit and she told me about her
two-month-old grandson who hadjust died suddenly.
And I asked her, I said tell mewhat happened.
And she immediately said he'dgotten his two-month-old
immunization and two days laterhe just suddenly died.
(22:54):
They just found him in the cribdead, and of course it was
described as a SIDS death, and Ididn't say anything to her
about it, but I knew immediatelythat in my mind that it was
connected to the vaccine.
Now, in your medical practice,did you ever see SIDS deaths
that were connected to vaccines?
Dr. Bose Ravenel (23:16):
Well, I'm going to say yes and no, and let
me explain what I mean by that.
Did I ever see children who hadSIDS, who had vaccines in some
proximate period before that?
Yes, I did, but at the time itdidn't occur to me, nor did I
suggest that the SIDS hadanything to do with the vaccines
.
And if a occur to me, nor did Isuggest that the SIDS had
(23:37):
anything to do with the vaccines.
And if a parent asked me Iwould have said it was just
coincidental.
But later on I began to reallylook back at it and see the
research data and learn thatthere's a published paper
analyzing SIDS deaths in apopulation.
That was a subject of the paperpublished and they looked at
(24:01):
the date at which the SIDSoccurred in relationship to date
of vaccination and a randomevent.
Because if you walk outside andlook up at the sky and then the
next day you're in a car wreck,it doesn't mean looking at the
sky caused the car wreck.
Correlation does not equalcausation.
(24:22):
That's correct.
However, random events ie dyingsuddenly, unexplained death
following a vaccine or vaccines,random events if they're
nothing to do with a cause, thenthat should occur at random
times, from day one to twomonths later or six months later
(24:44):
, a year.
In other words they have nocorrelation of the time of the
vaccine and the time of theevent.
But the data in this papershowed quite the opposite,
showed there was a strikingcorrelation where the closer to
the date of vaccination was thenumber of SIDS deaths occurred
(25:05):
Dramatically higher.
Very close somewhat.
So it was a curve that wentdown, down, down, down the
further away from the date ofvaccination you occurred.
Dr.Robert Jackson (25:15):
So that is a very compelling epidemiological
data that strongly suggests itcalls a relationship and I've
seen that study too, and it'svery alarming to me that no one
in the medical community iswilling to sound the alarm and
(25:35):
bring it to the attention ofparents, and I'm alarmed that
the medical community at largeis not willing to discuss this
publicly.
But it's really suppressed.
The whole issue of SIDS andvaccines is being suppressed,
and I think it's beingsuppressed by the pharmaceutical
industry because they make somuch money from the vaccines.
(25:57):
They're not concerned about thewell-being of children.
They're just concerned abouttheir wallets and their income.
Dr. Bose Ravenel (26:04):
It's also being suppressed by the fact
that professional organizations,including the American and
Canada Pediatrics specifically Iwill mention them as well.
They strongly discourage anypediatricians or family
physicians, any medicalprofessionals acknowledging any
kind of relationship betweenvaccines and autism.
(26:25):
They have no desire, not onlyno desire to talk about it, they
suppress discussion about it.
Dr.Robert Jackson (26:33):
It's because they're bought and paid for by
the pharmaceutical industry.
Dr. Bose Ravenel (26:37):
But the other thing about the SIDS that not
only is the temporalrelationship, that study done,
but equally, if not more,incriminating is that there have
been enough times as asuspicion began to be raised and
, little by little, more andmore physicians with the courage
to speak out honestly and raisethe concern about that
(27:00):
possibility.
They began looking at autopsiesof some kids who had died of
sids.
Instead of a routine autopsythey had, they had uh expert
medical experts who believe theywere related and convinced the
parents to press for and weresuccessful, get the autopsy to
do a variety of studies thatwould show changes that would be
(27:24):
consistent with a vaccineinjury and there was a handful
of those.
They were published as well,showing that what was ruled as
SIDS once they got a moreelaborate lab testing, blood
testing and other pathologicaltesting on the autopsy that it
appeared that the vaccine wasincriminating as a part of the
(27:45):
cause of the death.
Dr.Robert Jackson (27:47):
Well, I just pray that sometime, somewhere
and somehow this informationwill come out.
And that's why I do thesepodcasts, because I want my
listeners, the parents and thegrandparents, to know my
concerns, to know your concerns,so that they will be concerned
enough to avoid these pediatricvaccines.
(28:09):
They're not safe, they're noteffective and they're not
necessary.
I mean these childhoodillnesses.
They're gone.
They've been gone since the1950s due to improvements in
sanitation and I really don'tthink the vaccines are necessary
anymore.
Well, dr Ravenel, I appreciateyour time.
Our time is running out forthis podcast.
(28:31):
Would you come back with me anddiscuss some of these issues
again another day?
Dr. Bose Ravenel (28:35):
Sure, I'll be happy to.
Dr.Robert Jackson (28:37):
Well, I want you to know I appreciate your
expertise, I appreciate yourresearch and I'm sure my
listeners appreciate hearingfrom you and I'd love to have
you back again another time.
Dr. Bose Ravenel (28:48):
All right, we'll do it, thank you.
Dr.Robert Jackson (28:49):
All right, you're listening to More Than
Medicine.
My guest today is Dr BoseRavenel, pediatric physician for
more than 48 years, and I willhave him back again another time
.
You're listening to More ThanMedicine.
I'm your host, dr RobertJackson.
We'll be back again next week.
Between now and then, may theLord bless you real good.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Thank you for listening to this edition of
More Than Medicine.
For more information about theJackson Family Ministry, dr
Jackson's books, or to schedulea speaking engagement, go to
their Facebook page, instagramor their webpage at
jacksonfamilyministrycom.
This podcast is produced by BobSlone Audio Production at
bobslone.
com.
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